outlaw

[eternal hound]

Pushing as rogue is miserable

[lime lake]

i mean they did explicitly state the goal was to onboard heroic guilds into mythic easier

[craggy barn]

ye

[compact mountain]

RWF still wouldn't bring any rogues

[grand dune]

Can you share the post, I just rolled an outlaw rogue and I’ve been working on the rotation on a dummy. In my very early stage I’m focusing on not letting cooldowns go by and not wasting CP. I know I am missing some bigger things though.

When bte resets itself do you use it immediately or hold and build CP?

[gaunt phoenix]

it was this thread https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1491146942313660446

you build cps

[novel birch]

Yes!

That one, thank you

[grand dune]

Thank you for the quick reply! Much appreciated to you both.

[novel birch]

This feedback literally saved my ass- I can't believe changing a few things could change as much as it did

[vivid vessel]

ok im watching max stream rn

[grand dune]

Can’t wait to check it out. Thank you

[vivid vessel]

and he doesnt know that atro actually stacked

for a few tier

how are they so clueless tho

[agile orchid]

because wow for them is a job and they are not as invested as you are

[vivid vessel]

what

[lime lake]

[glass mortar]

i bet blizzard didnt even know

[agile orchid]

the only bugs they are aware of are the bugs that are reported to them

[vivid vessel]

well they ended up fixing it at some point

so

[glass mortar]

sure

after even we found out about it in here

after like a full expac of it stacking

[novel birch]

Are they releasing a bunch for 12.0.5? Is there more class balancing stuff? I've been tryna look into it just to see what could be changing for classes but haven't seen anything

[gaunt phoenix]

https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/2270121-1205-ptr-development-notes/

[inland acorn]

the only bugs they are aware of, are the ones that increase dps

[agile orchid]

yes, because rogue is not allowed to be good

[vivid vessel]

ye big outlaw buffs

[inland acorn]

"We’ve received a lot of feedback around Rogue lacking an AoE crowd-control "

Wasnt this a feedback since alpha

When they removed aoe blind from tooltip ?

[agile orchid]

the person in charge of this decision to remove aoe blind

should legit just get fired

[inland acorn]

idk

it felt like legit

trying to add lines to patch notes for the sake of adding lines

[glass mortar]

that change lends more weight to people saying the rogue dev hates us then anything they did tbh

not that i believe thats the reason why

[agile orchid]

how mentally disabled do you have to be to not realize removing useful utility from a class with the worst utility in the game is bad

[glass mortar]

i think its more likely whatever dev did it just doesnt know anything at all about rogue

[inland acorn]

I doubt about hating rogue

[near rock]

@gaunt phoenix we need the cloud cover numbers

[inland acorn]

I just think whoever made those changes

[glass mortar]

and the class team had a template of "reduce aoe stops in the game"

[inland acorn]

Doesn't play rogue or understand rogue

[near rock]

Tell me it’s 5%

[glass mortar]

so they took that and removed our only one

[gaunt phoenix]

ye i know, im not writing that code tho, out of my hands

soon(tm)

[near rock]

I’ll donate to your patreon

[inland acorn]

I mean if we look at the changes rogue overall got, and iteration on feedback or rather lack of it, I think it's very high chance, that someone who never touched rogue got told to do some stuff on it

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe we can napkin

No Scruples is like 3.5% dps

[agile orchid]

just nerf bladeflurry more

[glass mortar]

cloud cover is 20s of 2 stacks of fazed every AR right

assuming maximum effect

[fathom bramble]

well the new talent is definitely more than 3.5% right

[gaunt phoenix]

trickster uses AR like 8 times in 5 minutes

[glass mortar]

2 "free" additional stacks

so u can kinda count them as their own as ur stack count will always just be 2 higher then it would be outside CC

[fathom bramble]

that's like 50% uptime on ~14% damage

[gaunt phoenix]

thats like 50% uptime on 15% dmg

[agile orchid]

congratulations, you made the aoe capped spec that was good at low target cleave to be bottom tier

[fathom bramble]

well assuming 100% of your damage is coming from stuff that is amped by fazed

[agile orchid]

same story with frost dk

[glass mortar]

sure

which we are fairly close to now a day right

how much of our damage is random proccers

[near rock]

So 7.5% buff ty solo I’ll let my guild leader know rn

[fathom bramble]

well a maybe 7.5% talent instead of a 3.5% one on a hero talent build that is like 5% behind

[glass mortar]

does BF apply it in aoe tho is the bigger thing

[fathom bramble]

or 2% in aoe or something

[glass mortar]

because we kinda lost alot of aoe fazed application

[fathom bramble]

BF does apply fazed during smokescreen

[near rock]

Cropping this message out dw

[fathom bramble]

or it did on the ptr last week

[glass mortar]

that feels like it could be big but idk

fazed doesnt impact BF damage being cleaved off a target but does impact the BF damage from cleave hitting a target right

same as ghostly

i didnt word that the best way but focus on the same as ghostly

[quiet ore]

4.74% behind by my reckoning, which in reality should be close enough that it's playable, but in this rogue dps economy, every bit helps

[inland acorn]

there is no economy 😭

[leaden sonnet]

Actually slightly more, because the 3 stacks last until you attempt to refresh it

(with a random unseen blade proc)

[fathom bramble]

I don't remember what they did with fazed and BF

[glass mortar]

the last i remember it worked like ghostly

[fathom bramble]

did they make it actually amp BF properly even though it's not on the whitelist

[glass mortar]

no impact unless ur applying it in aoe

[leaden sonnet]

Seeing as nimble flurry applies fazed during smoke im almost certain BF does

[gaunt phoenix]

they made fazed on secondary targets affect incoming bf damage but it hardly matters since we dont spread fazed much anymore anyway

until this talent i guess

[glass mortar]

ye

[fathom bramble]

okay that's what I thought

it's just not in the whitelist still

but there is an extra damage taken modifier that is probably handling it with magic

[gaunt phoenix]

it's scripted even though the whitelist should work

[young prism]

does anyone face an issue like vanguards are not spawning in raid?

[elfin flare]

I mean. Y’now. Rogue has so much utility and shroud has been so useful fortune last two expansions 🤣

[young prism]

paladins boss

[gaunt phoenix]

surely that being scripted wont break something else down the line

[inland acorn]

Surely

[gaunt phoenix]

i suspect trickster will be about the same ST and start winning in keys

[inland acorn]

[fathom bramble]

does the 50% generator critical strike damage also stack up?

[inland acorn]

So we go back to pressing KS

[fathom bramble]

did anyone test that

[inland acorn]

holy fuck

[craggy barn]

at least we'll have perma tricks

🙂

[quiet ore]

it's like 6-7% behind in AoE rn - is cloud cover gonna help that much more in AoE? I mean, I long for the KS-master assassin burst days, so

[fathom bramble]

blade flurry(initial damage) is missing from the 50% generator crit damage on trickster...

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

[glass mortar]

i dont think BF works with any of the "generator" talents?

because a talent is what makes it a generator

isnt that a thing

[quiet ore]

i reported this, and all the shit that didn't affect deft bf, back in tww alpha, assume wontfix at this point

[gaunt phoenix]

no, they made it work with lethality and broadside at some point

[near rock]

also shifting a tiny amount of that dmg into burst right

[glass mortar]

oh ok so its just a case of them doing it on a case by case basis

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[fathom bramble]

that's the entire reason we have 2 different BF spells

[glass mortar]

meaning everytime a new one is added they forget and it wont work for 3 expansions

[fathom bramble]

BF replaces itself with an identical and different instant hit when you spec into deft

[glass mortar]

surely there must be a better way to code this

[fathom bramble]

specifically to allow these interactions

[glass mortar]

[keen belfry]

thats a lot

[glass mortar]

assuming u can always max out ur poopcloud uptime

its not very big but at least u can kinda move in and out of it during

[quiet ore]

I think the better thing is that it's in the form of extra amp during an existing amp, making the profile more bursty

[glass mortar]

cant wait to see how well blizzard stuff lets me track poop cloud duration

[inland acorn]

Bold assumption you will be able to track it

[keen belfry]

oh ya will u have to delay 2nd ar in opener

[inland acorn]

[glass mortar]

i think there is a 1000% chance theres no way to track it

[keen belfry]

like 3 ish seconds?

[fathom bramble]

they also never added KS to the generator stuff despite it being a ksill that generates combo points now

[glass mortar]

its also awkward because it outlasts AR

so u would probably be delaying second AR with prep ye

[quiet ore]

you'll be able to track it by when your primary target drops down to 1 fazed

[glass mortar]

[gaunt phoenix]

with no scruples my ptr trickster slice is just barely behind fatebound slice

[fathom bramble]

btw your target only drops down to 1 if you apply fazed to them after smokescreen ends

so it can be at 3 stacks on offtargets for an extra 10 seconds

as long as you don't cast KS or hit them with hidden blade

[glass mortar]

so 30s of uptime in aoe is what ur saying

mostly

[fathom bramble]

sort of

[inland acorn]

KS once again showing how cursed it is

[quiet ore]

yeah, slice is way closer than sustained cleave, you right

[fathom bramble]

but it also means number of fazed stacks on target is not necessarily indicative of when smokescreen is on the player

since it may stay at 3 for a few extra seconds even on ST

[glass mortar]

what a banger talent to wait until they nuked our UIs to redesign

[craggy barn]

holy i have the perfect crit

[gaunt phoenix]

i need to resolve a bit of apl stuff on how to KS with prep as well

surely you dont AR BTE KS prep KS in opener

[craggy barn]

god that sounds cringe

if we already dont want to KS in our AR, surely we dont needa double KS

[light kernel]

im on 26% haste is that too much or its fine

[gaunt phoenix]

its fine

[light kernel]

should i try to lower it

[gaunt phoenix]

raidbots will probably want a bit lower

[quiet ore]

are ub stacks removed prepull? can we ks on a dummy and bank them?

[gaunt phoenix]

you can

just the 2 stacks

cant bank 40 of em

[quiet ore]

so maybe we just send ks prepull and reset it with prep so we can send it between adrs only

[gaunt phoenix]

so far it seems you can KS and then cancel it immediately on the global with ss

[keen belfry]

pre gather KS would go so hard

[glass mortar]

"why is the outlaw standing back there firing his gun in the air with no targets"

this is optimal trust me

the animation is so funny when u move out of range or ur target dies and theres nothing else to hit

[eternal hound]

Actually peak

[glass mortar]

just me, unloading my gun in random directions

[eternal hound]

Killing spree

Should just be reapers ult for overwatch

[craggy barn]

bangewr

[inland acorn]

JB as usual with based takes

[quiet ore]

I mean, youn keep the cp (if you slice with them), the ub stacks, and the ff stacks, and the damage doesn't matter (really)

[inland acorn]

😭

[quiet ore]

so I can't see why we wouldn't prepull ks if we can actually place a dummy to prepull on

[keen belfry]

i see the vision. a nearly 3min cd button thats supposed to be "cd worthy" (quote from old rogue dev) used with no targets in range is actual peak design

[glass mortar]

if they were gunna give kspree this treatment the least they coulda done is taken it out back and just deleted it

given us something we actually wanted

[quiet ore]

I mean, they did - current ks is ks in name only

[leaden sonnet]

Definitely seems like it does btw.

[keen belfry]

this is old news but the fact that they reworked the worst spell in the game into the worst spell in the game is criminal

[fathom bramble]

nice, thanks

[glass mortar]

yea true, instead we just got something super cursed

[fathom bramble]

I assumed it would but couldn't get on the ptr

[leaden sonnet]

Procced arcanoweave, but youll see that the hit is still like 1.1k and the crits are 4.5k instead of ~2.3

[glass mortar]

wait so the extra fazed stacks are also giving extra crit damage?

[fathom bramble]

yeah it's a component of fazed

the expectation is that everything fazed does would stack

[glass mortar]

so its even bigger then we are napkin mathing it to be

well in ST

this doesnt matter in aoe i suppose but still

barely matters in aoe

[quiet ore]

i doubt it's enough extra builder damage to make HO good again, but maybe we check?

[keen belfry]

no

dont cehck

[glass mortar]

well

HO cant really go aoe build

u literally dont have the talents

so trickster pulling ahead in aoe probably wont save HO much

but maybe ST 🤔

my god how cursed that would be

[quiet ore]

also needing to go 2 ace, as well, mmmm

[glass mortar]

yup

[inland acorn]

yes, they didn't spawn for my guild too, a lot of people in chats are also reporting same issue

Small indie company man

[glass mortar]

they bubble hearthed

[lime lake]

My guild had a lockout where they were supposed to be dead

We get there and just the ret is there

[glass mortar]

[inland acorn]

XD

[lime lake]

[craggy barn]

bro

i just had 4 resets

while away from the boss

this is stupid

[glass mortar]

press those naked PS bro

[craggy barn]

exactly

[glass mortar]

its ok ace wasnt supposed to be a spam BtE

nobody liked that gameplay

[keen belfry]

behold

hmm ithink a2 ace not shitter

[glass mortar]

amazing

[keen belfry]

behold HO aoe

[glass mortar]

oh god he didnt take loaded dice

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-does-he-know-gif-26833694

[keen belfry]

im not sure where

drop bte cirt?

crit?

then drop zero in?

[gaunt phoenix]

would rather start removing apex over loaded dice

[keen belfry]

i cant imagine functioning without apex solo

like, genuin

gen you whine

[glass mortar]

wait what if HO aoe build is supposed to play with no apex

have u considered that awang

[keen belfry]

MMMMMMMMM YESS MMMMMMMMM

[glass mortar]

4 whole extra talent points there holy moly

the possibilities are endless

[quiet ore]

there is no shot we can remove dragon bone dice for anything, that node is too good

[gaunt phoenix]

@vivid vessel fazed damage reduction should also stack with the smokescreen

and it's like 50% uptime

that's kinda banger no

[glass mortar]

15% dr????

LOL

[keen belfry]

ho is so back

[quiet ore]

40% uptime 15% dr

[fathom bramble]

it is indeed kind of banger

[glass mortar]

10% aoe dr at 50% uptime

[keen belfry]

no cap this is banger

[glass mortar]

this poop cloud is actually going to be good

and we are going to have zero ways to track it

[quiet ore]

this is one of those things that's going to be massively better on OL than the other spec because of cdr

[glass mortar]

also being unable to AR anytime ur gunna be moving like 10-20 yards permanently

[cinder relic]

its very good for sub as well

[gaunt phoenix]

guy are you ready for the great revival of trickster

[glass mortar]

welcome back rune of power

you were missed

by who i dont know i have never seen anyone ask for you back

but im sure somebody did

[mystic berry]

im not ready

[cinder relic]

I kinda like new KS so yeah

Any excuse to use it will make me happy

[quiet ore]

well, tbf, if you leave the cloud you just close ability to reapply, so, like, it's not world-ending - if tank is kiting or something the mobs stay debuffed

[glass mortar]

what if ur use of it is casting it then instantly canceling it because its dog and u just want the stacks like 80% of the time

[gaunt phoenix]

you will get to KS prep KS during AR

[glass mortar]

is that gameplay

[cinder relic]

[quiet ore]

this doesn't make ff go above 5 does it?

[gaunt phoenix]

no

[keen belfry]

have u simmed this

dont

[glass mortar]

i mean it also wont last the full duration since it only lasts like 10s no? and u have the cloud for 10s

[keen belfry]

PELASE

[glass mortar]

if u leave ur cloud behind u do lose uptime

but ud need to leave the cloud so far u wouldnt be able to dip back in at the last second since it lingers

the main annoyance is how u tell what the last second of the cloud is

[cinder relic]

a ground targeted spell that causes us to gain damage? welcome back CBB

[craggy barn]

at least some people believe

[gaunt phoenix]

lol

[craggy barn]

failed 15 npx

bc tank took adds in 2nd boss soak amp

🙁

[cinder relic]

The nice thing about playing rogue is everybody just assumes rogue does 0 damage so when u deal actually decent damage ppl are like "whut da heck"

[quiet ore]

if only bdk was meta, so we had a tank that wanted to plant, too

[craggy barn]

just frontal nuking eveyrone

[craggy barn]

yea its always funny

almost got removed from a group bc no lust, but they decided to keep me bc i slam

ez

[quiet ore]

you carrying drums for the occasion?

[craggy barn]

no

why would i

if i dont benefit from lust why should i provide it

look if u invite a rogue without having a lust already in the group

u sholda had drums

ez

[keen belfry]

i cant believe we are back to trickster next week

[craggy barn]

also

never try to do the lura mind game call outs as rogue

outlaw*

fucking brain fucked myself i had to play sin

to do it

[river wing]

wha

[keen belfry]

napkin mathing trickster gonna win dslice

[jolly geyser]

[keen belfry]

new fart cloud talent

W

but trickster not W

[ashen void]

I for one welcome voguing as i fire my gun from my stank aura

[cinder relic]

W fart cloud

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-girlingirlin-tastes-the-food-enjoys-it-stan-twitter-gif-2512903994021401500

[craggy barn]

bro

being away from the boss

[glass mortar]

gaming

[craggy barn]

1st boss npx

boss was in a completely different section since we baited the bomb

[frail veldt]

arent you SO excited?

is our boss damage gona go down even more next week then?

cuz right now I feel like my aoe is fine but my boss damage is piss esp on like low target cleave bosses

[craggy barn]

yo our aoe low target cleave is gonna go through the roof

only for s2 bosses to all be st

keep missing

[lucid sparrow]

why are ppl saying we ar going back to trickster

what did i miss

[wintry solar]

Fart cloud

[craggy barn]

cloud cover change

[lucid sparrow]

ah

[craggy barn]

we only have 2 changes listed in ptr notes rn

ace change

[gaunt phoenix]

No sims but cloud cover talent should be a substantial bonus

[craggy barn]

and trickster cloud cover

[wintry solar]

And AoE blind

[craggy barn]

i hardly count that

since they took it away from us in a hotfix

and are bringing it back

crazy work

[wintry solar]

Well it's coming back and it's a change from current rogue

[glass mortar]

its a joke it was ever removed and not worth mentioning as a positive

[craggy barn]

its also irrelevant to going to trickster

[fading igloo]

Is anyone else getting finishers just randomly ghosting? Like I press Dispatch, the GCD visibly rolls but you spend no CPs and just stand there?
Is this lag or something else, never had this before but ever since last reset its been happening

[glass mortar]

a bad joke. not a funny joke, a why am i paying to play this game when they make changes where they dont even understand the class a little joke

u got parried

stand behind the boss or play trickster

[craggy barn]

i think lots of gcds are getting fucked rn

esp for some classes

[glass mortar]

parry still exists in this game for some reason

[fathom bramble]

could be getting parried, but that should still play the dispatch animation

[craggy barn]

like theres gcd drifting for some reason

on dk

i think frost mage also has some gcd drifting

with lancing

[glass mortar]

yea i do experience gcds being hyperfucked in raid

[lime lake]

ive been noticing weird stuff on spriest

[glass mortar]

its very frustrating to play with PS delay and regular latency and the spellqueue nonsense this expac in raid

[lime lake]

especially during lust/pi

[glass mortar]

feels like im literally guessing whether to pretend SS procced or not alot

[lime lake]

wasnt sure if it was my addons messing up or actual game issues

[fading igloo]

There is no way the boss is just randomly parrying my Dispatches.....is that seriously a thing that can happen

its only ever Dispatch so that might be it..

[worthy surge]

yes

[glass mortar]

yes

[lime lake]

raid bosses can parry

[worthy surge]

dungeon boss can parry too

[lime lake]

most cant

[fading igloo]

Rerolling

[worthy surge]

might be going back to flickering steel with tricks

[lime lake]

there are random exceptions

[fading igloo]

breaking point reached

[lime lake]

but most dungeon bosses cant parry

[glass mortar]

trickster cant be parried

[fading igloo]

i thought im being a schizo

[glass mortar]

theres ur reroll

[vivid vessel]

only last boss nexus parry this season

[worthy surge]

he was the one that parried me earlier

perma tricks will be nice though

cloud gameplay probably not so nice but 10s is a decent window

[lucid sparrow]

are you really that convinced that its a trickster angle

[worthy surge]

tricks is already not bad

not as good as fate but its already not bad so if the math is mathing on this change then yeah probably

[glass mortar]

i mean we have no sims

all we can do is napkin math for poopcloud

but it looks very good on a napkin

[lucid sparrow]

cant wait to pop cloud and the tank moves entire pack

https://tenor.com/view/plink-wide-cat-plink-cat-meow-gif-27396868

[glass mortar]

if only this design was solved 3 expacs ago for other classes

[worthy surge]

yeah cloud gameplay sounds like it could be not great in certain situations but

you have 10s to dip your toe in and out

[glass mortar]

yea

gl tracking how long u actually have to dip in and out tho

[jolly geyser]

the cloud should be on the rogue

[glass mortar]

u think anything in the current blizz ui is going to let u track how long the cloud lasts

because i certainly dont

[lime lake]

the stank cloud should follow the stanker

[worthy surge]

that would be ideal for sure

but its not going to happen so

[vivid vessel]

I just don't wanna leave the cool fatebound rules

..

Trickster so boring

[lucid sparrow]

same

[vivid vessel]

And you have to play around shit ks

[wintry solar]

DKs have been trying to get DnD to follow for years so big doubt that'll happen

[vivid vessel]

Imma just cope st is better in keys

And play fatebound

[craggy barn]

well dks have follow dnd now

and also dont even press it

[wintry solar]

Via horse

[craggy barn]

ye

[wintry solar]

Which is funny

[river wing]

in other events
ACE 2 FEELS SO DAMN GOOD

just fucking make it refill to full and it will be soooo gooood

[wintry solar]

Made it mobile on a unit you can't control and then made it irrelevant after 20 years

[glass mortar]

zac...

what if the ST is good zac...

all the fazed bonuses triple... 150% builder crit damage zac.....

15% dr.............

i dont wanna play poop fart stink cloud either

[keen belfry]

im geuinely shaking in fear rn of our energy issues

[livid kindle]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quiet ore]

this is really big for m+ tbh, since fatebound has zero real defensive utility, trickster getting constant 5% DR and high uptime 15% dr is huge

[inland acorn]

Just dump extra 25% haste for energy

[quiet ore]

like "blizzard does not intend these to be this strong" huge

[glass mortar]

Didn't trickster want like 30% haste on beta...

[inland acorn]

It did

[quiet ore]

trickster has the same desired stats as fb rn, dw

same high point at an relatively even crit/haste split, just more even valuing of haste and crit as you fall away from that ideal

whereas fb likes crit a bit more than haste if you have to have a bias

[keen belfry]

yuh i bet sim wants us to raise our energy yayas

[formal thunder]

should I craft head?

[quiet ore]

KS is good for energy, so I doubt it

[inland acorn]

Sim

[keen belfry]

idk cuh u generate like 20 energy during it

[glass mortar]

KS being good for energy wasn't enough to save tricks on beta what changed

[worthy surge]

you dont get a lot of energy back during KS

[frail veldt]

It's honestly gona be miserable

I'm imagining the two target cleave boss

[keen belfry]

its already miserable rn

[frail veldt]

Holy it's gonna suck

[keen belfry]

anything worse is unplayable

[glass mortar]

Ok but consider that u get to have rop gameplay now

So that's a big positive

[frail veldt]

how long is the smoke bomb duration

have they fixed the visual

or is it still super obstructive

cuz im imagining things like fire tornados on bird boss

or frontals in nexus point

[worthy surge]

if I had to guess its the same current visual

[frail veldt]

that are already hard af to see

...........

rip

were so cooked

[reef forge]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[keen belfry]

i wonder if 20% more ace resets helps energy

[outer meteor]

are we actually playing trickster next week

[frail veldt]

maybe slightly?

[frail veldt]

for m+ yeah

[outer meteor]

fuck that

[river wing]

aight I know everyone's a big dick myth raider here
but I only raid heroic and I'm pretty damn proud RN

[worthy surge]

youd probably play it on bosses where you cleave as well

oh well itll be interesting to try next week

[keen belfry]

its just sad cuz i think this fazed interaction thins with new cloud cover is banger

but trickster is just so bad

[outer meteor]

i just dont wanna press ks

[wide flare]

ain't gonna complain

[worthy surge]

idk pressing KS really isnt that big a deal imo

im more afraid of the energy gen

[keen belfry]

and coup has such beauty in this rotation

[craggy barn]

we celebrate everyone's accomplishments regardless of difficulty!

[keen belfry]

coup has such vibes value for me

so much cdr to build back to AR

with 3+ buff and coup

i wonder if AR uptime goes up with trickster

[worthy surge]

it does

[frail veldt]

you know im starting to feel like the rtb redesign was pretty shit due to the "stage" idea. I feel like 4 different buffs is a lot less problematic performance wise than a stacking stage system where you get all the buffs below it

[worthy surge]

you get AR more as tricks for sure

[glass mortar]

It doesnt

[worthy surge]

I played it

[keen belfry]

need # s

[worthy surge]

I was ARing more on avg as tricks im p sure

[glass mortar]

That's just making up for fatebound getting more cp from ss everytime u press it and it procs

[keen belfry]

it feels like i am

[glass mortar]

Trickster doesn't have that

[keen belfry]

but idk if actually am

[glass mortar]

It evens out

They were basically identical in tww idk why it would be different now. Fatebound generates the additional cp for cdr from its ss talent, trickster from coup

They should be very similar in value but u could always check it in sims

[frail veldt]

you can sim this if you want to see

actually wait

we have those sims

1 sec

[quiet ore]

surely this doesn't render for other players

[glass mortar]

Fart c l o u d

[frail veldt]

fatebound

trickster

[glass mortar]

Y shuld we suffer alone

[frail veldt]

so right now trickster has about 1.6 less adrs in a 5min sim

[glass mortar]

So fatebounds uptime is higher

[frail veldt]

this is obv with the current talents

not the new ones

[glass mortar]

Is that trickster playing prep tho?

[frail veldt]

but I dont think the new ones increase adr usage

so

trickster seems to adr less

[worthy surge]

hm it definitely felt like I was ARing more as tricks but maybe im wrong

[glass mortar]

Trickster has less resources overall

Less energy less cp gen

It should have less ar

[frail veldt]

yeah trickster has less resource throughput as a whole

so about 15% less adrs

according to these ST sims

[cinder relic]

P sure they nerfed the visuals for other ppl

[frail veldt]

ah so just we die

thats sick

[keen belfry]

ur telling me this is gonna be under my feet 40% of the time

[frail veldt]

yes

[glass mortar]

Nah the cloud is only 10s

[keen belfry]

incoming DK player had to play with fart under them for years

[glass mortar]

The buff duration is double it

[keen belfry]

ok 20% of time

[glass mortar]

Yeye

[keen belfry]

im just imaging

first pull masiaraasa caversn

with the green circles

covered by fart clouds

this is the first season ive ever felt like i have to zoom in when palying certain pulls

[vivid vessel]

i play fps pov wang

on these puddle guys

[keen belfry]

do we do the same thing?

i legit zoom in

so hard

this is how zoomed in i get

sometimes a lil more

[vivid vessel]

ye im full zoomed in

[quiet ore]

this helps

[keen belfry]

me have it on

[quiet ore]

the self-highlight circle in particular

is still very visible through the cloud

[frail veldt]

I have that on

it helps

but I mean the + weak aura also helps

the issue isnt seeing myself

its seeing the things that are going to kill me

im always in the middle of my screen

[daring venture]

I just finished a raid with my guild: what did Blizzard do to the outlaw

[quiet ore]

I mean, this is a forever blizz problem. Only blizz makes purple AoEs on purple floors and green AoEs on green floors

it's like their accessibility advocate just doesn't have a say

[frail veldt]

yeah its brutal tbh

they just dont do a good job of it

[placid ocean]

We should petition blizzard to bring back old acrobatic strikes

[gray summit]

BAGUETTE 1ST

[keen belfry]

i hope the ace change is noticeable

20% more bte resets good

[fossil lintel]

do we know how much it is in sims?

[placid ocean]

I hate that it's like a 1% buff at the cost of one more talent point

[fossil lintel]

1 less talent point not so good

[keen belfry]

if it feels good and 1% buff

down

[fading igloo]

Anyone feel like looking at my log and able to tell me why I feel like I can't do well on Vorasius for shit?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/d8Gr4ZgCcF9amRBj?fight=7&type=damage-done

I actually don't know what to look for or try atp, do I just pad adds like a monke or am I missing smth

[keen belfry]

bte casts are low at a blance

make sure to press on cd at 6+ cp unless within 30seconds of AR being up

[fading igloo]

Hmm think I do that already

[snow rapids]

Is there a way to make a noise indicator when my roll for the bones buff is like ~2 seconds from falling off or fell off?

[keen belfry]

i would guess u kinda do but miss some, u had 2 less btes per minute than my typica llogs

[fossil lintel]

you can do it when it falls of on the cdm directly

[snow rapids]

How do you do this?

[inland acorn]

Went from killing ourselves with killing spree, to killing ourselves with smoke bomb covering puddles/frontals

[gleaming reef]

I have a weakaura for it 2 seconds before it falls off.

[frail veldt]

can you do that?

I thought weak auras cant check duration left

or do you start a timer when you press rtb?

[fossil lintel]

new alert

on aura removed

[snow rapids]

Didn't know this existed. Thank you. is there any other buffs you guys reccomend using this on?

[worthy surge]

blade rush when its off cd

[gleaming reef]

I start a timer with RTB and I extend it if I use KIR otherwise expire till 0 or restart to 30 when I press the skill again

[fossil lintel]

i have one for BF

[frail veldt]

nice nice

[keen belfry]

i had a sick combo last night

i KIR'd a non buff then RTB'd

[inland acorn]

[gleaming reef]

It happens

I've done it

[fossil lintel]

i kir'ed a 1 roll by mistake recently as well

[keen belfry]

same

i think its actually sick that our fart cloud is basically a 15% DR tho

[outer meteor]

ive done the same thing expect i had a jackpot

and rtbd

and kir

the 1 buff

[keen belfry]

mmm banger

[frail veldt]

been there done that

[keen belfry]

mewo i also tlearned today that tricks is a 6second buff

not 30

[craggy barn]

its 30 until u hit something then its 6

[frail veldt]

well which buff

[worthy surge]

itll be an hour next week

[frail veldt]

how did yo uonly now learn that

awang

the fuck

its 30s until you hit the mob then its 6s

[fathom bramble]

the threat you transfer also fades after 30 seconds

[craggy barn]

awang didnt rogue last expac

[fathom bramble]

if you didn't know that either

[frail veldt]

oh that much I didnt know

HOLY wait

that actually might explain things

[fathom bramble]

yes it might

[fading igloo]

Could this maybe be because of fight duration?
It's just a Heroic log and it looks like I only had 4 overall BTE's less than your HC kill on the leaderboards?

[fathom bramble]

sometiems tanks randomly lose aggro 30 seconds into a pull

this is tricks fading

[frail veldt]

YEP

[keen belfry]

casts per minute dont care about duration

i had 9 per minute u had 7

[worthy surge]

I press evasion sometimes when im scared

[fading igloo]

hmmm I see, confusing metric

[craggy barn]

rotationally vanish to reset threat 👍

[keen belfry]

i havent done much rogue pre TWW

[fading igloo]

I'll just try to press it more ig

[keen belfry]

i did alot in df s3 but thats it

[craggy barn]

ye awang doesnt know all these rog things

[worthy surge]

ya I also vanish when im scared and we dont use it to get rid of a debuff

[keen belfry]

only thing i know is blast

[frail veldt]

didnt you start in DF s3

[keen belfry]

basically yeah

[frail veldt]

thats when I started

[craggy barn]

baby rogs

[frail veldt]

ur just noob

[keen belfry]

i played some outlaw in df s1

then went to mage

[frail veldt]

it was an alt for me prior to that yeah

[keen belfry]

i yam a baby rogue

ive been caster whole career

[frail veldt]

ye was an spriest before

I miss being ranged

shits so easy

[keen belfry]

same cuh

[frail veldt]

get to stand still like 90% of the game

[keen belfry]

og awang is a spriest

nbd

[frail veldt]

its comical how much mechanically harder melee is

at least imo

movement wise

[keen belfry]

same ppl be like i gotta learn the fight as ranged damn

like bro u gotta learn to do noting?.

[frail veldt]

blizz has a fucking hard on for putting aoes centered on mobs

its so annoying

[lime lake]

I swapped to spriest this tier

And yeah I just vibe

Very chill

Just afk in the middle and hit everything 4head

[frail veldt]

imagine a melee spec with as little mobilty as spriest

would be dead 1000 times over

[keen belfry]

kinda enh

[frail veldt]

tbh yeah

thats gotta be tough

it has a sprint barely

or the leap

both suck equally lol

ghost wolf is a gcd(aids)

[keen belfry]

your daily reminder that the only target capped spec inthe game is also terrible at low target cleave

devs are you reading this?

[frail veldt]

if they could read theyd be so mad

[glass mortar]

idk u guys r implying they arent aware and didnt do it on purpose

[fathom bramble]

this is also your daily reminder that they took long arms away when some specs have a passive 1067% stronger

[glass mortar]

seems tough to move 2 target damage from 200% to 120% by accident

[fathom bramble]

(it's called being a ranged spec)

[indigo token]

i forgot

[frail veldt]

you underestimate their incompetence

[indigo token]

are we actually getting changes

cause we didnt get anything in dev notes

but we saw changed in the ptr

[fathom bramble]

trickster stocks are up

2 ace is mandatory and slightly buffed

[indigo token]

where's the patch notes for us

[glass mortar]

hilariously not in basically any of the googled notes for 12.0.5

[fathom bramble]

I don't think they have complete notes yet

just repeated ptr updates

[indigo token]

how convenient

unfortunately i relapsed and have applied to another guild

if they accept me as a trial im back on

[glass mortar]

here u go

scroll down

[gray summit]

guys

do ytou think

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n8sakJ3VFtnnTSWjdKN4xL

the dagger with the buff

its not overratted ?

[patent mirage]

Acro will return in the future

As in the prophecy

[craggy barn]

did u sim with a 2nd embel somewhere else, because im pretty sure a lot of the value ur seeing is just from not having a 2nd embel aside from crafting the dagger

[gray summit]

oh shit that's it

[random stirrup]

how does your guy sim so high

is this trinket gap

[frail veldt]

zac cookin some pre combat shenanigans?

[vivid vessel]

no this is 30s sim

with all the precombat things

[random stirrup]

ye my guy sucks

[vivid vessel]

thats before i gain 5 ilvl from this week tho

so

[random stirrup]

i take key vault twice in a row with 2 and then 3 raid slots at 279

gapped or what?

[dreamy kernel]

is there a way to get weakaura like reminder when i lose my RtB buff?

[quiet ore]

you can add an audio cue to aura removed in the cooldown manager

[proven ocean]

Honestly, every time I watch this race I’m reminded how much harder Classic raiding actually is. There’s just no comparison. Retail bosses are basically dance routines with training wheels while Classic forces you to actually understand your class. You can’t just script your way through in Classic, you actually have to play. Half these Retail raiders wouldn’t last ten minutes in old Naxx without WeakAuras and Max telling them what to do. It’s crazy how far the skill floor has fallen.

[foggy needle]

is outlaw chill this xpac? i haven't played it since DF
i see a lot of people claim they're unhappy with outlaw and yet they play it for most of the raid (you guys are weird)

[near rock]

they are weird

[crimson scarab]

for me personally its the spec I like the most and will always stick by it

i enjoy it quite a lot and does nice dmg

but it has energy issues and it can snowball a lot

if u dont play it properly

and be energy drained for a long period of time

[foggy needle]

sounds like how it was in DF

[crimson scarab]

its even worse tbh

[foggy needle]

yikes

blade rush still around?

[crimson scarab]

yeah

tierset is around blade rush

[foggy needle]

maybe i'll check it out
i've got a couple hero 1hs i can sim because my raid team had no use for them and i snagged them on off-spec rolls

[crimson scarab]

u should run a dagger in OH btw

[foggy needle]

ye

not sure if that changed in tww but thats how it was in DF

[frail veldt]

So is new cloud cover talent an extra 16% damage?

cuz fazed is baseline 5% plus 3% from hoodwinked hero talent?

@gaunt phoenix do you know?

[random stirrup]

yes

[frail veldt]

huge

[random stirrup]

and currently surprising strikes is tripled with 3 fazed stacks

possible smoke is as well

[frail veldt]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

youre lying

thats

absurd

150% increased crit dam?

[random stirrup]

yes

[frail veldt]

is this a ptr confirmed thing?

im sure they fix that right

thats too ridiculous

[random stirrup]

that is indeed how it works on ptr

[wintry solar]

That's bonkers

[vivid vessel]

so sub get turbo buffed?

[wintry solar]

Ye

[vivid vessel]

interesting

wondered how they would manage to make sub the go to spec for next tier

but they always find a way

every tier they get away with it !

[frail veldt]

and every tier were surprised

remember when people said this would be outlaw tier

LOL

[vivid vessel]

someone said that ?

[frail veldt]

I wont name names

[wintry solar]

I think Guy said there's a chance? But I may be putting words in his mouth.

[wintry solar]

I gotchu

[vivid vessel]

well he says that every tier

that doesnt count

[wintry solar]

Fair

[random stirrup]

he still owes me for telling me he would craft a sword

[vivid vessel]

[wintry solar]

[random stirrup]

#outlaw message i have the receipts!

[wintry solar]

He did say it

[vivid vessel]

he actually said it

word for word

!

gg

[wintry solar]

[craggy barn]

idk did u prog most of void storm zac

[lime lake]

[craggy barn]

as law

voidspire*

[vivid vessel]

well

depends

[craggy barn]

did you

[vivid vessel]

pull count wise

[craggy barn]

or did you not

[vivid vessel]

or boss wise

[frail veldt]

he was outlaw doing keys while his guild was progging with rogue benched

does that count?

[craggy barn]

ye

he was outlaw during prog

counts

[frail veldt]

guess outlaw was the prog spec then

[craggy barn]

ez

[glass mortar]

its builders only

[frail veldt]

guy was right

[glass mortar]

so not as big as it sounds

[frail veldt]

im aware

[glass mortar]

still could help tricksters st

[frail veldt]

150% on PS is actually phat

[glass mortar]

the biggest thing is the DR easily tho

15% dr

50% uptime

[near rock]

[glass mortar]

[frail veldt]

LOL

[craggy barn]

i mean ur on march now right zac

[frail veldt]

thats so dumb

actually

[craggy barn]

full sending sub for egg?

[frail veldt]

theyre gona nerf so much of that

for sure

no way they dont fix it

[glass mortar]

and 10% dr from all the aoe mobs

that u bf to

[vivid vessel]

ok i did first boss as outlaw, i did voracisus as sub, saladar as sub, i did dragon as outlaw, i did vanguard as ouitlaw and did so little damage i got benched, then i did corwn as sub, and now im sub on beloren @craggy barn

[craggy barn]

gotcha

[frail veldt]

15% if you KS

[glass mortar]

and get lucky sure

[craggy barn]

shoulda played sin on vanguards ez

[glass mortar]

cant tell waht ks is gunna hit in a pack

[frail veldt]

well KS before

[glass mortar]

its good either way tho

[frail veldt]

KS spreads via BF

[vivid vessel]

ye and do the exact same damage but hate my life

[frail veldt]

not via hits

[vivid vessel]

i should have sure

[frail veldt]

so it always aoe spreads

to everything

idk why its coded that way but it is afaik

[random stirrup]

melee autos and bf hits are spreading it

[frail veldt]

so the talent aoe stacks 3 anyways

sick

[random stirrup]

itll be insta full stacks on everything

[vivid vessel]

im really not impressed by sin damage on vanguard

i would have done the same number as outlaw

im more interested by beloren now tho cause

its funny

all the best egg damage logs are sin

but after doing my sims things

im convinced sub is better

but like way better

and that maybe the sub players are just washed up

which honestly is prolly true

[radiant wyvern]

higher pop, more washed players

[fading schooner]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[prisma lantern]

Can confirm, am washed up.

[grand dune]

Is this in the weakauras that is no longer supported? I haven’t downloaded because I thought it was dead.

[still matrix]

Is hunters mark flat 3% damage buff the entire fight? e.g. you want 2 on dragons/vanguard?

[vivid vessel]

yes

crazy right

[keen belfry]

3

on farguard

fart

[formal thunder]

any gameplay consideration regarding plume? probably not, right?

[keen belfry]

bte at 6+

[fallow hinge]

ur crazy

[sturdy crow]

This is incorrect. The rotation assistant always sends bte at 5+ and blizzard wouldn’t lie to me

[worldly zephyr]

What’s this pre combat shenanigans that boosts our dps in raid? Did I read that right?

[vivid vessel]

outlaw doesnt have any of that

[worldly zephyr]

I didn’t think so. Thanks for replying

[hollow bloom]

Take a shot of tequila on every prepull

[worldly zephyr]

I prefer the devils lettuce over tequila

[fallow hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[fathom bramble]

pretty sure outlaw gets a larger dps boost from rum anyway

[fallow hinge]

until the Rum's gone

[fathom bramble]

of course

[worldly zephyr]

Why is the rum always gone!?

[fallow hinge]

a question for the ages

[smoky venture]

Where is the Atrophic poison spreadsheet

[vivid vessel]

!atro

[ornate heath]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[smoky venture]

Thank you

[vivid vessel]

its empty !

[smoky venture]

Oh, does Atrophic poison work in Cosmos? Mythic

[vivid vessel]

yes

not on everything i think but

what are you gonna do

play numbing ?

[smoky venture]

Im trying to roster a rogue, and decide on my melee spots

[cinder relic]

works on everything, except for the adds that pulse on mythic

[smoky venture]

Love them

[vivid vessel]

did slightly less than devo

for me on my kill

[cinder relic]

U also need to actually hit alleria during intermission to make sure the poison is applied

Else it doesnt work then

but thats just user error

[vivid vessel]

i didnt do that

intermission is whatever tho no ?

just padding the healing numbers no cap

[vivid vessel]

rogue does good alleria damage

honestly

[smoky venture]

I believe it

[near rock]

bros got gaze of the alnseer pfp

[keen belfry]

sub or sin

[wintry gate]

i dont know, i did my first outlaw key and i think i might delete my weapon just so i never do it again

i did alot of things wrong apparently

[gaunt phoenix]

momma aint raise no quitter

[wintry gate]

you sure quitting aftert his

[gaunt phoenix]

[wintry gate]

i can turn brain off on sub with 2 buttons and do 2x damage, fuck me

[gaunt phoenix]

it's very active for sure

[vivid vessel]

i played sub

both would do the same prolly idk

[cinder relic]

Guys

My last achivement

Its a fucking world quest

[gaunt phoenix]

[cinder relic]

who knows when it spawns

[keen belfry]

just blame it on bad procs

[wintry gate]

nah, i need to set up to track more shit, i went blind and it did not work

!addons

!macros

[vivid vessel]

!wang

[wintry gate]

!wang

[vivid vessel]

!wangbar

!solo

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[vivid vessel]

ah ye

my bad

[wintry gate]

jackpot

[vivid vessel]

forgot the command

[wintry gate]

thanks

its mostly setup to track gravedigger better

[vivid vessel]

well

if there is one thing you dont really need to track its that

i hope you are tracking the rest tho

[wintry gate]

you mean rtb/kir/adrenalinerush/blade flurry? i am

i just want to know when BTE will reset

[vivid vessel]

well

we also have ace tho

thats fully rng

[wintry gate]

oh

[vivid vessel]

ye

gravedigger is just idk

a copy of ace

[wintry gate]

i thought it was gravedigger doing it rofl

rip

[vivid vessel]

yee

its both

[wintry gate]

OK I HAD BAD RNG THEN

[vivid vessel]

they thought it would be cool to copy the talent and also make it the apex

weird idea tbh

[wintry gate]

low key i prefer last outlaw build, wtf is this shit now

[vivid vessel]

fr fr

[jagged plover]

prefer like the last 5 iterations

[frail veldt]

Blizz likes to do this thing where they take something away then repackage it then give it back

[jagged plover]

lmao

[vivid vessel]

ok but

i just find it weird

how they didnt take away ace lol?

like why do we have these 2 things

[wintry gate]

i wish they had

[past sky]

waiting for acrobatic strikes to be repackaged

[frail veldt]

They're lost in the sauce

[vivid vessel]

that are basically identicall

[past sky]

with a bow on top

[frail veldt]

Idk

[vivid vessel]

but arent

[frail veldt]

They really are the same yeah haha

[vivid vessel]

like for sub they took the cp refund from the talent

and they put it in the apex

(lol btw)

[jagged plover]

im still mad about acro and haste tax i will never forgive them

[vivid vessel]

but so its removed from the talents

there is not this weird thing

were we have both things

living togetther

[wintry gate]

i still hit my symbols keybind even though it doesnt exist anymore xD

[vivid vessel]

being the exact same mechanic

but not really

[glass mortar]

gravedigger is a full failure in my eyes but i dont complain about it too much cause people seem to like it