think the last time that happened was bfa tho 
#outlaw
jagged plover
haughty moat
this year is crazy
quiet root
i regularly get comments from people in my groups saying they tried outlaw and just can't play it
karmic gust
tried bm hunter and it is really braindead compared to this
jagged plover
wow gamers skew old the procs are too much for them to react to
karmic gust
pretty sure there's a lot of ppl using the single button rotation
haughty moat
im 40, has nothing to ddo with age^^
karmic gust
where's the fun tho
quiet root
at this point one-button rotation isn't far off actually playing in terms of difficulty for many specs
karmic gust
arcane mage is legit one or two buttons most of the time
how can ppl play that and not feel bored
might just be the adhd talking idk
grim spear
just one or two buttons can be fun
quiet root
fury isn't very hard and i think it's fun
karmic gust
it does sim higher than my other trinket, i'll try to get that one since i don't have the raid trinkets yet
quiet root
it's not outlaw tho
karmic gust
you always have something to do but it's slower than outlaw
same for bm, you always have a button to press but it's just slower, kinda cool when you want to lay back and chill
karmic gust
yeah i like that you never have to cast
grim spear
WoW has, at some point, turned into a game where you’re expected to be pressing something constantly, filling every single GCD
and that really clashes with how energy specs are supposed to feel
which is a big reason Rogue feels so unfun rn
karmic gust
enters prot warrior the carpal tunnel simulator
lethal relic
it does sim higher than my other trinket, i'll try to get that one since i don't...
Yeah it sims really high and you'll most likely use it until you have hero track Plume, Gaze and/or Solarflare Prism
Ranger-Captain's Iridescent Insignia is also fantastic once you start reaching those 40%+ crit points
karmic gust
Yeah it sims really high and you'll most likely use it until you have hero track...
i saw that it's quite tedious to get it but it's worth it since i have sub optimal trinkets
quiet root
WoW has, at some point, turned into a game where you’re expected to be pressing ...
i've always liked gcd-locked specs since the start so i don't mind it myself
lethal relic
Is anyone else simming their gear and not reaching the 25% haste breakpoint with the recommended equipment?
I'm at 23% with a haste flask but haste flask isn't even recommended to me, crit flask is. This is despite me being above the crit diminishing return rating too
I have 1,392 crit rating using a haste flask
quiet root
it's because getting your AR gcd to 0.8 isn't as relevant now that AR doesn't have 95% uptime
lethal relic
Ah okay, that makes sense
So basically don't stress about it and just do what the robot says
quiet root
yeah
lethal relic
Excellent, thank you
grim spear
i've always liked gcd-locked specs since the start so i don't mind it myself
the point is
gcd-locked specs basically make the energy system pointless.
Either you’re waiting on energy, in which case it’s not really gcd-locked,
or you always have enough energy, in that case… why even have an energy system?
pearl topaz
Is using a mouse for builders and finishers possibly costing me in casts
like my %s are good, just casts low
quiet root
the point is
gcd-locked specs basically make the energy system pointless.
Eithe...
i agree, energy on outlaw feels like it exists just to grief you sometimes when you are unlucky (or on 2 target cleave this patch i guess)
assa actually cares about energy a bit, but that's why i don't care about assa 🙂
grim spear
you get something like current outlaw, where the energy system is partly a haste tax and partly a gameplay constraint.
it’s basically no different from forcing you to maintain some buff
it’s no longer what an energy system is supposed to be.
quiet root
same is true for mana outside of possibly arcane mage though
both definitely strayed from the original intent as primary resources
though i think outlaw is kind of an exception among energy specs, no?
grim spear
The energy system, by design, feels like
it’s meant for a playstyle where you wait for your moment,
unleash a flurry of attacks, then pull back and create space while you wait for the next window to go in again
But WoW’s PvE combat just isn’t designed to work like that
In WoW combat, you’re basically dealing damage all the time
glued to the target and constantly hitting it
That makes the whole idea of ‘waiting for energy’ feel really awkward
quiet root
But WoW’s PvE combat just isn’t designed to work like that
it kind of is when you consider that most non-outlaw specs traditionally place very high importance on their cd windows
karmic gust
being stuck auto attacking because you're out of thistle tea is the worst feeling ever
grim spear
yep
quiet root
it's just that instead of fully pulling out of combat, you do a bit of a filler rotation until cds come back up
pearl topaz
it wouldnt feel so bad (in raid) if you knew your damage was competitive on fights
karmic gust
guess they'll address this in the next decade
grim spear
That’s why Rogue feels so unfun
the resource system just doesn’t match the pacing of combat, and the class fantasy doesn’t really translate into PvE
karmic gust
I have trouble finding any other class fun tbh
pearl topaz
part of the problem since bfa is having to do a lot to be average means that things that are otherwise whatever are basically where you get stressed when you cant keep the loop going
quiet root
the resource system just doesn’t match the pacing of combat, and the class fanta...
didn't sub and assa do a decent job of having that playstyle, at least last patch? (haven't played either spec this patch)
somber path
hey, quick question, i am at 24% haste with consumables . does it make sense to craft my next item with crit/vers? or should i still get more haste?
quiet root
i think people might just not like the idea of being "slow and methodical" in the first place
i definitely don't, that's why i don't play the other rogue specs
grim spear
didn't sub and assa do a decent job of having that playstyle, at least last patc...
There’s barely a little bit of it, I guess
Still feels really off
You’re basically always just hitting the mob, it’s just that sometimes you do damage and sometimes you don’t.
Honestly, pacing-wise Outlaw probably makes the most sense.
You’re basically always fighting, both in how it plays and how it feels.
quiet root
yeah you're always in combat and the spec used to be named for it 🙂
river wing
spec was named combat because it was made from pre-talent traits that focused on improving Rogue's capability in direct combat
just like Sub was made from traits that focused on improving combat from stealth and assa...honestly a little bit of everything that wasn't direct weapon usage or stealth and not much focus back then - it had poisons, some energy stuff, some support stuff, some basic number boosts
quiet root
exactly, and i think that's the point being brought up
that the entire game is direct combat now
river wing
yeh
hardy wigeon
foggy cove
i just realized i had to set my loot spec to sub to get beetle stabber after doing like 20 POS 😭
quiet root
don't worry you wouldn't have gotten it anyway
lethal relic
Which settings are you guys using to sim? Patchwerk 1 target 5min with SimC default consumables?
foggy cove
don't worry you wouldn't have gotten it anyway
true didnt get the neck until the last couple
lethal relic
i just realized i had to set my loot spec to sub to get beetle stabber after doi...
It took me 28 runs to get it to drop and I was assa loot spec the entire time
young prism
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
daring yoke
guys for first time i have highest parse and not mid damage for my raid 🥲 this is myth vorasius
remote pecan
guys for first time i have highest parse and not mid damage for my raid 🥲 this ...
not mid damage? were you last? 
daring yoke
actually first 🥲
remote pecan
is outlaw back
brisk spear
guys for first time i have highest parse and not mid damage for my raid 🥲 this ...
Outlaw broken?!,!?
daring yoke
if they had similar parse, id probably be mid somwhere lol
brisk spear
Did you hit adds? 
daring yoke
yeah adds as well
daring yoke
had jackpot on pull though lol
brisk spear
Nice
daring yoke
we are generally a 4-5 myth guild. so not really seriouis. probably theres better way of doing it
karmic gust
Does anyone know how to change the role icons on the discord ? Mine is like 3y old
tropic zephyr
guys for first time i have highest parse and not mid damage for my raid 🥲 this ...
Sometimes you get 100 parse and you're the last dps
normal quail
guys for first time i have highest parse and not mid damage for my raid 🥲 this ...
what dmg did ya do?
daring yoke
what dmg did ya do?
uncut stratus
generally speaking use a haste flask to reach 21-23% haste, but if we reach that naturally without a flask, then which flask should we use
gaunt phoenix
crit
uncut stratus
alright teek u
long barn
I’m quite surprised that even at 44% crit, and 25% haste, raidbots still not fully recommending vers for stats over crit.
weak crag
if my BtE comes up when im at 5 stacks of gravedigger, do i just send it or do i hold it for the 6th stack?
gaunt phoenix
you send it unless AR cd is < 30s or so
but you hold for AR regardless of gravedigger
normal quail
generally speaking use a haste flask to reach 21-23% haste, but if we reach that...
wait.. can we opt crit flask at this? I thought we kinda have to hit 25%
unsure how we're meant to hit 25% flat but that's what i've heard
lethal relic
Someone told me it's not as important anymore since Adrenaline Rush is no longer almost permanent
But it feels a little sluggish going from 25% down to 22%. Could be all in my head though
fair topaz
do i use the adamantite sharpening stone instead of oil on my mainhand?
open coyote
how impactful to DPS is the offhand weapon on outlaw? Is it worth investing the 80 myth crests to upgrade the offhand? (Both my main hand and offhand are crafted)
glass mortar
how impactful to DPS is the offhand weapon on outlaw? Is it worth investing the ...
not very but u can always sim it
obsidian light
theres a bug happening to me where my rolls disappear out of nowhere
i have a clip ill try to upload it
uncut stratus
You guys like taking prep? I see in the "High keys" category it's taken, but in the category of 7-20 it's not taken...kinda strange because prep gives you double AR, double flurry etc
normal quail
theres a bug happening to me where my rolls disappear out of nowhere
are you using zac UI?
obsidian light
are you using zac UI?
nope blizzard ui
normal quail
this was happening to me too when using his, shame cos it's sexy
obsidian light
ill upload it in a sec
normal quail
indie company strikes again
obsidian light
thats so stupid man
normal quail
oh well atleast RTB works, hunter had no lust for like 2 weeks
proven ocean
Guys blizzard ui is fine
It bugs out and things disappear but dw
Just try ur best
normal quail
xd
obsidian light
lol
glass mortar
theres a bug happening to me where my rolls disappear out of nowhere
its known
well by us anyway
i dont think any fixes have been found tho
glass mortar
zac was working on making a custom WA that tells u when the bug has procced
so u dont waste a reroll
i had it happen twice to KiR'd 3 buffs last week
obsidian light
zac was working on making a custom WA that tells u when the bug has procced
ohhh that would be perfect
gaunt phoenix
You guys like taking prep? I see in the "High keys" category it's taken, but in...
yes, I like prep
The more i play the more it feels like outlaw is still very much momentum based
you start the key with pre-loaded dice and prep ready so you can go very long without a raw roll without loaded dice
glass mortar
oh it absolutely is, as long as u dont get real bin tier rng u basically chain LD rolls endlessly for most of a key making sure u never get 1 buff
and if u ever fall out of the loop and need to natty roll its so cursed
1 buff feels crazy bad
thats how keys have felt for me
gaunt phoenix
but if you die or tank is afk you can lose it
of course you can just get lucky and roll a natty 2+
in a week we remove sleight of hand so that gets a bit worse
glass mortar
probably not much tho honestly, if ur tank is properly chain pulling almost all ur rolls end up having LD anyway
3 buff is so strong in aoe with deft
but it will make it more punishing for the average keyer probably
gaunt phoenix
yea i mean when you lose momentum and have to natty roll
would prefer to have sleight than not
glass mortar
yup
its also worse then the crackshot loop imo because when u fall out of it u start consuming all ur tea charges and taxing ur future pulls
which wasnt a thing that ever really happened with crackshot
crackshot was just crackshit until AR came off cd then u were back in the loop and good to go
gaunt phoenix
and that's including you have tea to burn
glass mortar
still feels awful tho
glass mortar
its a bit funny too because we were all so excited when they made one of our old best feeling buffs the basic 1 buff roll of RtB
surely this will bring up the low end rng floor significantly
no more 1 buff burning u and making u useless
gaunt phoenix
if I do a 5 minute sim with 1 buff only
and remove thistle tea
need 60% haste to not have any average downtime
glass mortar
normal quail
i mean with loaded dice is nice with prep to avoid 1 as much as possible
gaunt phoenix
ye
normal quail
but you either waste a proc to use second adr
or gamba
for guarantee 2+
im a gambling man
glass mortar
guys... i just want 2 charges on everything
normal quail
may sound dumb but rolling a 2 feels ass now for some reason too
glass mortar
rolling 2 is like the baseline for spec to function
you arent highrolling or lowrolling
gaunt phoenix
midrolling
glass mortar
in ST it feels fine but its very noticable not having 3 buff or higher in aoe because u get so much more Bf usage
you dont notice the increased cdr as much on ST
glass mortar
honestly feels more like if I don't get a roll higher then a 2 buff for a significant amount of the fight its difficult to parse at all
going into a fight and just getting 10 2 buffs in a row for the whole fight
I know my damage is going to be meh
normal quail
i had rank 1 yesterday on hc saladhar (taken over now) but i legit was just farming jackpots
normal quail
i genuinely think Jackpot is kinda the requirement
glass mortar
i wonder how many parses in the top 100 on some of these fights never roll higher then a 2 buff
gaunt phoenix
there is definitely a large RNG curve for parses that get to KIR 3-4 buffs repeatedly compared to not
unkempt smelt
Heroic Plume or Myth Legs? Got 263 Crucible and 276 Gaze
normal quail
myth legs is better for long run for sure
gaunt phoenix
in ST it feels fine but its very noticable not having 3 buff or higher in aoe be...
this is 8 target
glass mortar
2 buff to 3 buff doesnt surprise me
3 buff to 4 does tho
10% crit is really worth 20% raw dps on us now a day huh
gaunt phoenix
a bit relative math illusion there
gaunt phoenix
really ~14% from 3 to 4
indigo token
this is 8 target
its so buns man
unkempt smelt
myth legs is better for long run for sure
Well, after sims they both end up being a 0,7% upgrade so I might get trinket cause I'm doing pug raids this season so good luck getting that anytime soon ^^
glass mortar
i mean the dinar system will let you guarentee the trinket eventually
but either way works
unkempt smelt
i mean the dinar system will let you guarentee the trinket eventually
Dinar system is coming back?
glass mortar
its already in
unkempt smelt
wut
glass mortar
the voidcores or w/e uve been charging up weekly
unkempt smelt
do you have a link?
mystic berry
this is 8 target
2 buff is ass
glass mortar
once they are activated they will let u consume them to get a guarenteed drop from a boss loot table
and then remove that item from future voidcore uses
so u can guarentee items off specific bosses if u want to
unkempt smelt
OK i'm gonna watch that out
glass mortar
its the weekly purple triangle quest in the voidstorm zone right in the main town
i hope uve been doing it weekly or u are p e r m a n e n t l y behind
normal quail
Well, after sims they both end up being a 0,7% upgrade so I might get trinket c...
well you can't go wrong with plume
mystic berry
so u can guarentee items off specific bosses if u want to
what track will they be ?
mystic berry
hmm
glass mortar
u kill a boss then consume the voidcore
it gives u a piece of loot from that boss
as if it had dropped for you
then removes that item from the boss loot table for future voidcores
its like old bonus rolls mixed with dinars basically
unkempt smelt
so if a boss has 3 loots and u want only one, u might have to use 3 voidcores in 3 different weeks to end up getting the one you're chasing?
glass mortar
idk if u cant just chain kill the boss the same week (u could do that with old bonus rolls) but yes
it could take 3 tries, could take 1
you get more voidcores then u got dinar tho
unkempt smelt
ok but still is rng sadly
glass mortar
rng with a set limit
at most it could take u as long as the boss has items on its loottable yea
loot table for you that being
unkempt smelt
and its the same voidcores across different difficulties?
glass mortar
yea
unkempt smelt
so better use them in mythic raids (if i ever do some this seasons)
glass mortar
i mean if you know u wont be killing mythic... whatever that is... then you might as well use them on herioc, i imagine that trinket in HC is still competing with mythic other trinkets
but sure
i mean its just like dinars you might as well buy the best gear you are going to have available, if you know you are going to clear a boss on mythic in the future ud wanna hold it for that
idk how puggable that boss will be by the end of the season, bosses with "Dont run on top of the other half of the raid" mechanics tend to be a pita
and the interupts during intermission
unkempt smelt
yeah I see, on the other hand I'll be getting vault every week so I might come across Mythic pants once in a while :). Can we use the voidcores to get myth track items from dungeons?
glass mortar
yes
i dont know exactly how many voidcores they plan to give us over the season, but raid boss loot actually consumes 2 voidcores and end of dungeon uses consume 1
because dungeons have much larger loottables generally then raid bosses
glass mortar
unkempt smelt
you're the man
normal quail
does anyone opt for sleight of hand in ST
like I can't help think it may be better over 2/2 heavy hitter
without it i do feel stuck at 2rtb a lot of the time
gaunt phoenix
right now it's about the same
sleight + 2 ace + 2 dispatched instead of 2 heavy hitter + find an opening
But in a week we will play it for sure
pine dock
i geared up as outlaw and want to try out sub and have no daggers and no sparks left lol should i just farm m+ for weps?
normal quail
i geared up as outlaw and want to try out sub and have no daggers and no sparks ...
have you got sparks left?
the dagger OH craft is good as a placeholder if you havent got myth pit dagger
placid ocean
have you got sparks left?
They said they have no sparks left
placid ocean
i geared up as outlaw and want to try out sub and have no daggers and no sparks ...
Have you cleared the raid?
pine dock
voidspire, yeh
dark ember
Chat, can I get a few Garfields
Someone on the team who's -10 ilvls from me sims +2k dps higher than me
placid ocean
Vorasius drops a good dagger for sin and sub
placid ocean
Chat, can I get a few Garfields
Someone on the team who's -10 ilvls from me sim...
What spec are they
dark ember
What spec are they
Dev
placid ocean
-astation?
-ourer?
karmic gust
bro is just a blizz dev
placid ocean
Oh well yeah, devs get a flat +10% aura buff
normal quail
They said they have no sparks left
bruh mb xd
placid ocean
Idk how devastation is but devourer is #1 with zero brain power required
placid ocean
And I will fight anyone who tries to argue that devourer is hard
dark ember
Deviation
placid ocean
Standard?
glass mortar
wtf... share....
vivid vessel
wtf... share....
No
gaunt phoenix
is 1 letter more
true dust
was there any tuning this reset? Are we finally s tier now?
gaunt phoenix
no
river wing
wonder if there's an optimal use case for voidcores next week
guess I'll have to look at all the dungeons and figure out where luck is gonna be the least of a factor
...it's gonna be Pit, innit
normal quail
has anyone got 23%+ flat haste with no blood knight?
gaunt phoenix
ye i have 22.97 or smth
river wing
has anyone got 23%+ flat haste with no blood knight?
ye I think I had it before this cloak
tight kernel
Yo what’s up outlaw peeps
gaunt phoenix
yo
placid ocean
wonder if there's an optimal use case for voidcores next week
guess I'll have to...
Almost every pit drop is good for us, so yeah
placid ocean
ye i have 22.97 or smth
That's not 23% now, innit
gaunt phoenix
true
river wing
Almost every pit drop is good for us, so yeah
and the ones that aren't can be catalyzed anyway, yeah
rare panther
How do you use preparation in dungeons???
keen belfry
has anyone got 23%+ flat haste with no blood knight?
not me
glass mortar
How do you use preparation in dungeons???
pretty much on cd if its appropriate, can hold it if something tough is coming up soon but you dont want to hold it too long
do you just mean like rotationally or in the macro sense
spare shard
Hey guys, are there any major changes for the Outlaw in next week's patch? Thanks a lot
glass mortar
like I wont send it in the middle of a normal pack I know is going to die in 20 seconds anyway, especially if i know a boss is coming up next or a big pull
glass mortar
next week is 12.0.5? sheeeesh
keen belfry
i wondeer if we will feel the more ace resets
gaunt phoenix
major? i guess
glass mortar
our talent builds will change a bit due to some changes but nothing drastic
keen belfry
im all for more ace
gaunt phoenix
swapping to trickster is maybe drastic
keen belfry
how many more ace resets do we get solo
gaunt phoenix
see
mighty pivot
5 more resets (over a year)
glass mortar
is the new cloud cover in sims? hows it look
gaunt phoenix
it's not
glass mortar
it seems stinky to me but numerically interesting
like 50% uptime on an additional 2 fazed stacks + the aoe application
mighty pivot
is the new cloud cover in sims? hows it look
it looks like a puff of smoke 
reef forge
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
rare panther
pretty much on cd if its appropriate, can hold it if something tough is coming u...
okay
gaunt phoenix
dynamic targeted debuffs is a bit weird to support in sim
not many instances of it in the game
koji needs to work some magic
keen belfry
gen you whine question how do u find patch notes that arent posted latest on wowhead
glass mortar
hmm
glass mortar
gen you whine question how do u find patch notes that arent posted latest on wow...
really cool trick i found
i'll share it with u but dont spread it around too much
op tech
very important to write patch twice or it doesnt work!
glass mortar
yea the better notes links r under this one
keen belfry
yes is there like
keen belfry
a website that just post
glass mortar
well wowhead is the website that just posts
mighty pivot
doesn't work 
keen belfry
sub gets a better supercharger we get a better cloud cover
glass mortar
blizzard just always forgets about us
very funny we arent in most of these links
honestly the new cloud cover sounds like it could be scarily good
like good enough to make trickster good
im hoping its worse then it sounds
i dont wanna play that shi
keen belfry
our m+ trickster build is so bad
mighty pivot
trickster but with 30% haste to actually have energy sometimes
gaunt phoenix
remove prep for ks i guess
keen belfry
is this what we are playing
glass mortar
the variety is just having less rules, needing to play kspree, and building at 5 CP forever and dumping even more resources into the void tho
trickster genuinly sucks ass
all the fun rules are in fatebound
tricksters just like "Nope you just dump those combo points right into the trash. press that SS at 5"
keen belfry
and dont we still have the rule where pressing KS during AR at all is a hug dps loss
thought u simmed it at -1.5%
glass mortar
i think right now its just not to fully channel it and try to cast it before AR if both are up
silent crow
Does it say in a tooltip or talent somewhere that dispatch applies slice and dice? Like where is that declared
gaunt phoenix
i couldnt replicate it so idk what i did
glass mortar
i dont believe the dont cast ks at all ever is real yet
silent crow
It's driving me nuts
glass mortar
Does it say in a tooltip or talent somewhere that dispatch applies slice and dic...
you have a spellbook passive
mighty pivot
Does it say in a tooltip or talent somewhere that dispatch applies slice and dic...
passive in your spellbook
gaunt phoenix
Cut to the Chase passive
mighty pivot
cut to the chase
silent crow
Thank you holy moly
keen belfry
keen belfry
i dont want to remove sleight
same lmao
near rock
I haven't talented sleight once the whole expansion
im surprised ya'll are so big on it
river wing
spec feels off without triple
glass mortar
having more buffs is fun
near rock
the real vibe is just hitting jackpot without sleight
glass mortar
^
undone notch
If you guys dont like Trickster, why just just play the hero tree you enjoy more anyways?...
Game is meant to be fun isn't it?...
glass mortar
because i like doing effective numbers and if the gap is too big i will play trickster even tho its ass
hopefully cloud cover isnt enough to save it tho
if its just a few % ahead thats w/e
keen belfry
Game is meant to be fun isn't it?...
while that logic may sound right what if you have fun doing the most dmg possible
boom
epic log pwn
glass mortar
i just dont want a repeat of last expansion where trickster would vary anywhere from 10% or more ahead in aoe
keen belfry
undone notch
I mean, idk
glass mortar
10% is a metric ton and if ur giving that up for slightly more fun gameplay then
respect to you, i just dont want to invite u to my keys
or raid group
and i certainly wouldnt pick that option
keen belfry
this is such a common arguement ppl say "why do u care about numbers shouldn u just care about fun"
well sweetie what if i get fun from caring about numbers
undone notch
I've still been keeping up in damage in 13s n stuff, so if it works then why not just play what you like, y'know?
river wing
so
who's willing to bet that we ain't getting any unequivocally good changes aside from %buffs until (maybe) 13.0?
mighty pivot
why would anyone bet against that
keen belfry
I've still been keeping up in damage in 13s n stuff, so if it works then why not...
there are much higher key levels where % differences matter
river wing
why would anyone bet against that
idk maybe some people are just huge optimists or smth
undone notch
It feels weird to care only about the numbers but then complain that you like the other tree more and would rather play Fatebound, just feels weird idk
glass mortar
because i dont like trolling my raid group and if im ever opting into a setup thats more then 5% worse then the best one I feel like I am trolling them
keen belfry
It feels weird to care only about the numbers but then complain that you like th...
and i think it feels weird that u care about what we enjoy, we are arguing the same thing just different ingredients
the fact is there is a # that exists for you too, our number is just smaller than yours
glass mortar
theres certainly room for playing builds that u find more fun and stuff in the more casual aspects of the game and I would absolutely still play fatebound in the open world even if trickster was 10% better
keen belfry
we are bound by numbers if u try to minmax
mighty pivot
overbuff HO you cowards
glass mortar
💩
mighty pivot
river wing
...actually yeah, what do you even drop
gaunt phoenix
will be wrong i promise
a bit harsh
mighty pivot
for aoe builds you don't have points for HO no, for ST it could work
keen belfry
a bit harsh
well i knew the next message was gonna be what it was
but harsh, sure
like whgere am i getting this last HO point
river wing
like whgere am i getting this last HO point
acro maybe?
formal thunder
sadly no gaze for me, but Prism is pretty good I guess 
keen belfry
acro maybe?
trees dont work that way cuh
river wing
sadly no gaze for me, but Prism is pretty good I guess <a:pensivean_:10325321346...
do you have plume already? bc I'm almost sure umbral plume 276 sims better than 289 prism
keen belfry
wait im stupid as shit i didnt even have audacity in my build
thats funny HO aoe actualy doesnt even work
keen belfry
aHOe
mighty pivot
it's been impossible since alpha (the tree hasn't changed 
)
glass mortar
changing requires iteration
they ran out of time for that after the second week of alpha
formal thunder
do you have plume already? bc I'm almost sure umbral plume 276 sims better than ...
also worth to mention i have HC prism already
glass mortar
theyll get us next time
keen belfry
it's been impossible since alpha (the tree hasn't changed <:garf_sit:13348894294...
wym surely we got iteration in beta and alpha? thats what its for!
mighty pivot
better luck in TLT
mighty pivot
when the latest intern becomes outlaw dev for 2 weeks
river wing
also worth to mention i have HC prism already
note that you actually have to manually add umbral plume, radiant sims like shit (bc mastery lmao)
river wing
welp lmao
river wing
looks like plume day my friend
formal thunder
but going from 1 Myth 1 Hero trinket back to 2 hero feels bad
I might wait til friday guild raid
maybe I'll get it there
river wing
also fair
also check out legs into tier
vivid vessel
tickle my balls !
river wing
you seem to have forgotten that one
keen belfry
i kinda like that trinket setup
formal thunder
ah ye, fuck, forgot to catalyse
river wing
gaze+plume is the life
formal thunder
I mean, I was running around with crucible and prism til last week vault with the banner
keen belfry
i crucible gaze vaming
mystic berry
I hate how good crucible sims
formal thunder
btw, is there a way to mark a manually added piece of gear as vault reward or something?
mystic berry
It makes me mad
keen belfry
I hate how good crucible sims
i agree cuz i hate vibes ofr 263 trinket
vivid vessel
farming crests on alts is so fucking ass
how do you guys even do it
im supposed to legit farm 600 mythic and 600 hc
its not possible no
formal thunder
vivid vessel
how do you even farm hc crests
formal thunder
wait why the fuck did Plume get worse 
reef forge
how do you even farm hc crests
max out myth and then start hero crest lol
mighty pivot
whining about crucible 
remember having to weaponswap for cudgel?
ornate heathBOT
vivid vessel
how many crests per key
reef forge
12
mighty pivot
im supposed to legit farm 600 mythic and 600 hc
you need fewer for your alts if you outgrow certain crest types on your main
vivid vessel
ayes true but
mighty pivot
so only mythic should be the same
mighty pivot
do 12s you pussy
vivid vessel
someone lying
mighty pivot
it's 16 for 12s
vivid vessel
tell that to peoeple
glass mortar
ur contacts????
vivid vessel
you queue up
mighty pivot
ask farover to carry you like in 20s
reef forge
yeah i had that issue, i started last week and i had to farm like 35ish 10s
vivid vessel
wait is ur alt also an outlaw rogue
yes
reef forge
people do not like outlaw and pisslow
glass mortar
266 dev would be getting into those keys (not really tho) 💅
keen belfry
im supposed to legit farm 600 mythic and 600 hc
u always end up at weird spot of needing heroic crests but only doing 10+ key level and only getitng myth
idk the right way to win here
glass mortar
the answer for running 12s on alts is have friends or run ur own keys (and watch nobody queue up)
keen belfry
heroic raid is fine but like who do that
mighty pivot
add on your note that you are a gigagamer on your main
vivid vessel
ye they dont care
glass mortar
i'll tank some keys for ur alt zac 🥰 inv me
mystic berry
ye they dont care
Apply to 14s, 10 and 12s is full of mdi sheep
vivid vessel
Apply to 14s, 10 and 12s is full of mdi sheep
bro my alt is 266
they dont even look in my direction
keen belfry
he is a good tank
do u know how many times ive been meleed by a gathered mob with tricks rolling
vivid vessel
thats not possible btw
you only get meleed if there is no initial threat
social is still threat
if you have tricks up i mean
keen belfry
let me find this thing cuz im confused
frail veldt
do u know how many times ive been meleed by a gathered mob with tricks rolling
Yeah I hate this shit
keen belfry
i also dont understand the tricks buff in cdm
can u even track when its actually up?
frail veldt
Like when it triggers? Idk
vivid vessel
i dont think you can
livid pewter
daaam thats unsatisfying.... grabbin the cloak from vault
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7Pn9stCTtdfh4cDyF8FFc3
frail veldt
Is it?
vivid vessel
its a buff on you
but there is multiple
i could make it a weak aura also but i didnt bother yet
or actually i dont think i can
frail veldt
A lot of cdms can track buff by spell id I think
vivid vessel
you cant detect that you autoattacked
keen belfry
i just have watched vods like this one where my tricks goes away after 5s?
frail veldt
If it's exposed
vivid vessel
A lot of cdms can track buff by spell id I think
no
keen belfry
https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/mw4oXTrEv2QSmdSVa?invite=cr-MSw0bFosNDU1MDEwMw&v=8 like what happened here?
mystic berry
they dont even look in my direction
If I saw a 3800 io I would not look at the ilvl
but yeah thats me
vivid vessel
ye but i doubt people see io on alt
mystic berry
I remember when it showed the main io score
vivid vessel
https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/mw4oXTrEv2QSmdSVa?invite=cr-MSw0b...
i know what happeend but you wont like it
keen belfry
lets hear
glass mortar
The 30s is how long u gave to trigger it
mighty pivot
wtf is medaltv
glass mortar
Once triggered it lasts 6s
river wing
30s is for initial application
vivid vessel
wish it was 30 bro
glass mortar
Of threat redirect
river wing
the actual effect lasts 6s
vivid vessel
its trash
keen belfry
omg
keen belfry
did everyone know this
river wing
yes
vivid vessel
yes
keen belfry
i thought it was 30s duration
silent crow
are there any channels/streamers that post outlaw key runs?
gaunt phoenix
@vivid vessel does
vivid vessel
but i mean
keen belfry
wtf is medaltv
auto session recorder ive hard for years
vivid vessel
i think your tank is troling
i would never take agro here
in fact i never take agro
keen belfry
like he literally hit those things
vivid vessel
he didnt
keen belfry
idk how tanks gather properly
vivid vessel
clearly
keen belfry
mighty pivot
premature tricksapplication 
keen belfry
premature tricksapplication <:feelsbadman:345304003015344130>
i thought it was 30 secs i have learned today
mystic berry
I also made that mistake
mighty pivot
why is that guildie of yours named "coochqween" tho
keen belfry
i think your tank is troling
i want to help my tanks
what does monksea do there
cuz i know u just prehit every thing
gaunt phoenix
lol killing spree is not on the AR gcd
i was trying to cancel it at 0.8s
but icant
vivid vessel
gg
mighty pivot
also how come you die first in the key but your durability is already at 30% 
keen belfry
also how come you die first in the key but your durability is already at 30% <:C...
my gear gets so fucked
vivid vessel
fuck it
ok i have the new opener wang
hear me out
pre key adr ks
bf snd in bubble
roll coming into pack
ss ss to spend the thingies
ks at whatever cp you are
insta cancel
adr bte bte bte bte bte
prep > .. wait adr > ks > insta cancel with adr > bte
keen belfry
vivid vessel
got it ?
keen belfry
livid pewter
@vivid vessel can u show this in a YT vid? i cant follow this
vivid vessel
no !
mighty pivot
does that put you above the brewmaster?
vivid vessel
fuck you !
mighty pivot
keen belfry
i so excited i learned something today
6seconds of tricks!
so it starts after u hit?
gaunt phoenix
yes
keen belfry
im such a noob
mighty pivot
trickster spoiled people
keen belfry
i simply press tricks, see 30second buff and think 30s
vivid vessel
it should be 20s at the very least
mighty pivot
make it 10s and make it increase the target's damage by 15% 
buoyant valley
If I have 5 cp but bte needs 6+. do I risk overcapping with another sinister strike? or do i use dispatch and wait until i get 6+ naturally?
gaunt phoenix
you ss
buoyant valley
cool ty
glass mortar
which 2 trinkets zac...
vivid vessel
puzzle box guidon
keen belfry
surely he means prism and plume
good outlaw trinkets
they active is they increase ur dps
random stirrup
what if you play double on use
idk what is the second one buffing
u gonna send a puzzle box on one dance
i might steal this tech because my passive trinket sucks though
vivid vessel
ok well
i got mythic gaze in vault
so its not really
a fair comparaison anymore right
vivid vessel
but idk
you could pre cast puzzle box
and have guidon up for 2nd dance or smth idk
the opposite you would be hard casting box in cds that sounds bad
@random stirrup actually i get one more sec tech
its funny
using box before fight just 2s before tho
and then guidon when lock is finished
and you fit one more sec tech
during lust
funny thing !
random stirrup
My hidden tech is vaelgor
its not good on a 5min sim
but i havent run it yet on a burst window
vivid vessel
whats that
eternal hound
Guys question
vivid vessel
i see
eternal hound
How trhe actual fuck do you live terrace
random stirrup
hmm pretty close with apl not designed for it
keen belfry
How trhe actual fuck do you live terrace
u dont run cheat and u vanish/cloak/evasion the glaives
eternal hound
u dont run cheat and u vanish/cloak/evasion the glaives
YOU CAN FUCKING VANISH THE GLAIVES
Okay now I just feel expectionally dumb
river wing
you can vanish the glaives? the actual hit or the dot?
vivid vessel
very op
eternal hound
Okay now I feel dumb cuz
vivid vessel
tell your melders to meld also
keen belfry
kinda required at 19+
eternal hound
I was struggling like hell in a 13
random stirrup
u dont run cheat and u vanish/cloak/evasion the glaives
i tried evasion this a lot and it didnt seem to work
am i noob?
eternal hound
It was timed but that shit was rough
keen belfry
evasion for dr
vivid vessel
i tried evasion this a lot and it didnt seem to work
just for dr
random stirrup
ah
vivid vessel
because we dont play cheat death in keys
eternal hound
The damage going out in that key is kinda disgusting ngl
Even the voidwalkers with feint spam was a tad rough
vivid vessel
@random stirrup i cant actually change the precombat cast btw in sims
idk why
maybe its sub sims that dont have pre combat stuffs
so i cant know if it would be better
to press at -x seconds
gg 
random stirrup
i have a big list of all of them
i just dont want to sim vaelgor rn because its annoying
vivid vessel
i have a big list of all of them
and you didnt share?
i had to create it all from scratch fuck you
random stirrup
i swear i send to you at some point
i have it since tazavesh hm
big 7 SC 14 sht coup snd
random stirrup
if you want to sim vaelgor you need to manually add the item id to advanced because its intellect
i cba rn
vivid vessel
cant you add it in top gear
random stirrup
it doesn't let you add intellect stuff at all anymore
they protect us from ourselves
sullen glen
guys what dagger should i craft i got a 237 with a 250 sword what is worth to prio craft ? (doing only m+)
sullen glen
can craft both now is it worth or i farm seat
keen belfry
mhm if u are outlaw lover farm some mythic crests, craft a 285 sword
river wing
unless you can send 80 myth crests for 285 MH - just farm IG
either you get crests or a hero wep which you can use to farm crests better
sullen glen
i see thankss!! if i get no luck next 3 seat ill craft it cba i guess
sullen glen
totally thanks ! and for embelish i do the boots as guided
keen belfry
embelly ur weapon
fading igloo
Is Dagger OH craft only for people who wanna multispec Sub or valid as a 4th craft this week for Outlaw only? 
frail veldt
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of 
Zero In, and also slightly more 
Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.
It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use 
Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.
frail veldt
dagger offhand is bis
keen belfry
dagger offhand craft is quite good cuz stats and embellishment
frail veldt
yeah the weapon embels are very strong
keen belfry
Is Dagger OH craft only for people who wanna multispec Sub or valid as a 4th cra...
i outlaw only and did it as my 2nd craft!
frail veldt
saaames
fading igloo
oooh bet, I went for boots/ring first but I guess I just get Dagger now then
frail veldt
do you have a myth mainhand yet?
fading igloo
yeye
keen belfry
its only worth the craft if u embellishment it
i think right?
or if u have no mythic pieces or no better craft, but dagger offhand craft is bis cuz embellishment
fading igloo
I do have embellishment on Ring/boots already
so it'd just be a myth stat stick craft
fading igloo
Just using the PoS dagger in OH on Hero
heavy shadow
Just got the HC Insignia from Crown, still sims worse than the shitty rep trinket
Yet it's listed as a BiS or close
Wish they'd just nerf that shit, why should a free trinket be so OP
I might just not use it out of spite
keen belfry
Just using the PoS dagger in OH on Hero
id sim a craft then cuz ilvl dont mean much on offhand
glass mortar
^
offhand is "bis" for people using it with embellishment
if ur just upgrading ilvl and stats a little its probably not a big upgrade
oh ilvl is pretty smol
keen belfry
show gear
keen belfry
probs helm craft
fading igloo
yee sim said helm too, just checking if crit/haste crit/vers
kinda annoying you can't sim the craft for both stats, unless i just didn't find the option to
fading igloo
balmy topaz
outer meteor
gaze havers...
frail veldt
which character sheet addon? I hate chonky character sheet
gaunt phoenix
that's dejacharacterstats
frail veldt
oh yeah thats what I used to use
I gotta switch back
chonky is so hard to parse for me idk why
sullen glen
on this gear i should craft MH-OH ( i dont raid at all so idk if i can craft a ring or neck that i cant get from m+ ) 2 days char btw
eternal hound
on this gear i should craft MH-OH ( i dont raid at all so idk if i can craft a r...
Ngl I'd send the dagger craft
eternal hound
mmmm it's
sullen glen
i can craft both i guess and get rid of the worry
fathom bramble
realistically you won't get something better than a MH craft very easily from just doing keys
sullen glen
realistically you won't get something better than a MH craft very easily from ju...
ye thats what i thought 🙁
jolly geyser
fiiiine,bought to the boots. 1.4milli
fathom bramble
if you want to gamble on a wep from vault potentially forever then it's fine
sullen glen
nah i guess you are right i just craft both and fuck it
fathom bramble
also a lot of the vault weapons are quite bad
you don't want to be wearing a mastery item if you don't absolutely have to
eternal hound
Pray for flail
gaunt phoenix
there are two, darkmoon sigil: hunt and darkmoon sigil: void
thorny zinc
why does dispatch show so low in details vs wcl?
thorny zinc
ah
frail veldt
fiiiine,bought to the boots. 1.4milli
thats like $100 for boots!
jolly geyser
frail veldt
thats an expensive pair of shoes
sullen glen
sooo i crafted the MH with embelish the dagger no need something right ?
i craft this too
sullen glen
did the one void so the other is the other suggested embelishment on guide ?
sullen glen
yeye cheers!!! i guess the one without the passive dagger
sorry couldnt find in guide about a crafted dagger
glass mortar
its just both weapon embels its not specific to which slot in where
doesnt rlly matter much
sullen glen
❤️ ❤️ ❤️
glass mortar
idr the name exactly but i think it was void and hunt
fickle relic
heroic bis trinket or mythic gloves?
glass mortar
its up 2 u
u can either sim it and pick the winner (probably trinket depending on ur gear tho), or optimize for ilvl, or decide based on what u think ur gunna be more likely to have access to from raid first
i personally tend towards permanent upgrades I know I wont replace in a season when they show up in vault over temporary power gains from a herioc trinket/item unless its that or a socket, but thats not always strictly the strongest item so
fickle relic
it's also difficult, because i have champion level gloves
well, my trinkets are garbage too so i don't really know
gaunt phoenix
gloves, there are lots of trinkets
crucible + solarflare prism is surely only like 0.5% worse than gaze
fickle relic
sim says that gaze is 1.1% above fully upgraded crucible
i'll just run the dreamrift once and if i get no trinket then i'll go for trinket. i don't think i'm gonna be getting a mythic version of it any time soon and i can get any gloves from next vaults, since we convert them into tier anyway
sullen glen
damn 50k for all this 😄 thanks for help !
onyx crane
How much Crit do yall have? my bte damage is way too low and im wondering if i dont crit enough (30%)
sorry im lying, 29%
glass mortar
get moar
just make sure u have enough haste then get as much crit as u can basically you wont be hitting the point where its comparable to mastery or vers really this season
maybe in full mythic gears
having lower crit increases the variance of BtE on your breakdown for sure
it wont always be low but it will fluctuate quite a bit
gaunt phoenix
most ppl have like 36-38%
onyx crane
wow then it probably isnt only my crit thats weighting me down
gaunt phoenix
5% crit wont unlock infinite dmg tho
onyx crane
yeah if i were to guess im also not fast enough on the perfect use of reduced gcd or something all that i know is that its starting to frustrate me lol
vivid vessel
mythic 15 to 25 boss 
onyx crane
how do i do this log command where i can submit my log for someone to look at it?
vivid vessel
whatdehelly
novel birch
Ever since having that post helping me with rotations, I've been top DPS'ing in dungeons, it's been great
Though, looking at the graphs 🤓 - Outlaw is still near dead last for most dps encounters in mythics and raids
quiet ore
eternal hound
Fucking bricks man
still matrix
If you not going down on first group chim, is it worth to just go st build?
keen belfry
flex mythic raid wtf
eternal hound
Shit's crazy
glass mortar
cute
they r experimenting with lots o things
i have a feeling itll probably be a flop because blizzard is usually pretty bad at tuning the scaling of herioc between 10-30 mans, but its a smaller bracket and maybe theyll try harder
so who knows
glass mortar
its 15 minimum
glass mortar
15-25 flex
onyx crane
cinder relic
Probably best to try this out on a 1 boss miniraid thing
glass mortar
yup absolutely the best way to experiment with it
agile orchid
another week of no rogue buffs
fathom bramble
I guess for some heroic guilds it might help them dip their little toes into mythic
but I feel like for real guilds it just means bring your entire roster to maybe hit 25 for more loot drops
stuck sparrow
Yeah that really is all thats going to happen
especislly if the 1 boss raid is easy and has a high value drop
karmic stag
They need to flex up. Add extra outlaw only slots to these encounters so they bring us
it’s a 25 man but you’re allowed 5 outlaw rogues for 30 total
fathom bramble
if the goal is to get people to try mythic that otherwise would not have then it does make sense to give it enticing items
craggy barn
