outlaw

[zinc briar]

Maybe with this Buff in 28463627374 targets we can beat other dps in big pulls

[icy cedar]

But I don't think Blizz intended for us to suck at low target cleave, they just somehow tripped and stumbled and have no idea how to fix it without accidentally making Outlaw rule m+ again, which they're deathly afraid of - for reasons I don't understand, considering they have no problem with mage being meta every season.

[keen cedar]

We'll see when tuning goes live

[inland acorn]

With precise cuts

without it, it's kinda dead

[cinder relic]

Are you done

[wintry solar]

Ofc not

[zinc briar]

In the season of "clave" fights

[eternal hound]

his pfp says no

[teal agate]

rogue is solid in dungeons because when you get 8+ targets you can actually start doing damage. But everything up to that point across all 3 specs is just bad. Then all the raids are literally just 2-4 target cleave fests

[runic gulch]

yeah exactly

[wintry solar]

You see how much hes exaggerating?

[zinc briar]

Its time to reroll to assa, lets drop a poison in the ground to make the work

Wooooohoooo

[cinder relic]

Do it already

Quit larping

[inland acorn]

This guy vein is about

to pop

[icy cedar]

My suspicion is that Blizzardi internal data shows rogue has the highest "adoption failure" of any class reroll, meaning people who switch classes to rogue are more likely to unsub because the leveling experience is terrible. So seasons when outlaw was meta had high rates of adoption failure, and they're adamant about avoiding an outlaw meta again.

[inland acorn]

from all the rage he built

lmao

[cinder relic]

LOLOL

I love fanfiction

[icy cedar]

i call it headcanon

[inland acorn]

there were a lot of season

where rogue not even outlaw was meta

what are we on about

[icy cedar]

because rogue leveling is terrrrrrible, and theyve never fixed it

[inland acorn]

?

[vivid vessel]

yo thats a nice one actually

[wintry solar]

Leveling in general sucks

[brisk meadow]

We got recouperate

[slim hare]

he is probqbly right tbf

[lean shadow]

love the nerf disguised as a buff outlaw is getting

[unkempt dew]

But why does outlaw need the nerf at 8 targets? It’s not that we can hit more than that. I don’t understand

[zinc briar]

Nah, we will shine in drakes Boss due to our giga burst

[brisk meadow]

Rogue leveling is fine

[vivid vessel]

tbf i half understand it

[cursive gyro]

And rogue class color is fucking yellow. What's that even about?

[vivid vessel]

i started wow and leveled a boomie

and i quit at max level

leveling depressed me

[thorn parrot]

Jerry Seinfeld dropping another classic bit on us

[light mountain]

is it that bad? i levelled 2 rogues 1-90 playing outlaw didnt feel too shit there are fsho worse classes to level

[vivid vessel]

i would htink its even worse if you playu rogue

[inland acorn]

rogue is like the worst class to level

[cinder relic]

Because they always Nerf bf when they aura buff us. Not really needed, especially at times like this but it's psychic link Sr atm

[icy cedar]

you don't get a finisher until like level 10

[wintry solar]

And you know what else??

[light mountain]

exiles reach leaves u at 10

[unkempt dew]

What does aura buff mean?

[next wedge]

are we fucking joking about these notes

[icy cedar]

the flat %

[somber rivet]

Can someone help us out. My buddy is playing rogue but struggling to get the big pew pew logs. He thinks it’s stat distribution. Looking at a comparison log I think it’s a rotation issue, but no experience with rogues; https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/NjVvY4pLMJZwAhzd/2YFBdRAD7bZC9nvL?fight=3&type=damage-done&source=8%2C-2

[zinc briar]

At least we can turbo leveling doing giga pulls outdoor with the buff of bf in 28463727374373 targets

[wintry solar]

You get eviscerate starting off. Dispatch at 10

[cursive gyro]

The suspense is killing me.

[zinc briar]

Make sure you pull all the mobs in the expansion

[tiny dagger]

its called algathar academny

if ur not playing phys comp u might as well stab urself in the eyeball

[cinder relic]

Im dead ass gonna mute u

[wintry solar]

I'm trying to think of something else that didn't matter and match the energy lol

[inland acorn]

Please do

[thick vigil]

Lmfao

[wintry solar]

I'm drawing blanks

[zinc briar]

Wednesday is time to go alegethar academy, ill make a party of 5 outlaws

[inland acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/doja-cat-star-wars-gif-25078126

[cursive gyro]

Typical outlaw rogue out of energy when you need to press blade flurry.

[zinc briar]

Please

[wintry solar]

Damn I got called out

[tacit pelican]

I don't think there are 5 active outlaws

[tiny dagger]

maybe are target capp can each get a diff cap and kill the mobs in first pull xd

[somber rivet]

It’s each dungeon, He’s consistently below me as a tank

[zinc briar]

Mmm mb

[static crescent]

so TLDR is, we got a very minor buff and we were all hoping for more i guess

[kind axle]

I'm getting real close to just swapping to unholy dk and forever living in the meta from this day until the day wow servers go down for good. What if we just all drop rogue and get it even lower than evoker in playerbase %? Think they'll start treating this class with the respect it deserves?

[vagrant saddle]

its already lower than evoker

[kind axle]

So what if we get it to sub 1% of the playerbase?

[static crescent]

maybe they will revert aoe nerfs before it goes live xd

[cinder relic]

Reroll then idk

[wintry solar]

I wish there was a separate channel for dooming

[static crescent]

I mean, this was better then nothing

[wintry solar]

Judging by some responses I'm not too sure

[next wedge]

it's better in keys xd

[calm osprey]

I'm just happy when they remember outlaw exists lol

[kind axle]

I actually would've taken nothing over this. It's a slap in the face

[next wedge]

it is nice to see rogue changes in the patch notes from time to time

once a year

[kind axle]

Clearly I felt the slap. I'm just frustrated. Feel free to ignore me

[cinder relic]

Bro got buffed and is mad 🥀

[static crescent]

Looking at assa aoe gains, they gained like 3-5% aoe, we got 4 ST, they seem to be pretty happy, and lets face it assa is dogshit too

[wintry solar]

It happens everytime

I'm not even exaggerating

[gentle lotus]

Are the 7th apr patch overall a dps increase or reduction for outlaws??

[vivid vessel]

because they couldnt just buff us they had to also nerf something ?

[cinder relic]

I agree

[vivid vessel]

like outlaw was so out of control in aoe it needed a nerf

i would ahve rather not seen anything than this

idk

this is just cringe

[cinder relic]

Nerf at 8 targets? And a buff at all other target counts afaik

Could be wrong, come back tomorrow or smthing for specifics

[elder crane]

Getting close to 300k scare them

[kind axle]

We're still suffering from commiting the crime of being the top back in fucking bfa. When unholy gets to stay living the good life no matter what

[light mountain]

i can probably count on 1 hand how many msgs in all 3 rogue channels werent about dooming u can complain away like everyone else

[wintry solar]

What I meant by it was I don't want to constantly see it

[vivid vessel]

popo = poop

[wintry solar]

Turn pvp into the dooming channel

[zinc briar]

Cant sleep

Im sadge

Gonna level a warrior tomorrow

Or pala to press 3 buttons

[wintry solar]

My guy

Everyone has 3 buttons

[royal badge]

you sure about warr, they ain't particularly cheerful either

[wintry solar]

You need to post your bench to play warr

[light mountain]

if ure not playing unholy/frost/mm ure fsho complaining like every other spec rn

[jade crag]

I think all the arms warriors have jumped bridge at this point

[elder crane]

But the 4% means that everything is buffed 4%? The melees,finishers etc. or am i completly wrong? And we still got nerf

[mellow thicket]

forgot about mage

[static crescent]

It is not a nerf

[somber rivet]

Anyone? We want to push keys tomorrow but his damage needs to go up a tad

[kind axle]

But it is a slap in the face

[eternal hound]

Na

arms is fine

[edgy walrus]

arms is good

[mellow thicket]

name a bad ranged class

devestation?

[indigo token]

outlaw

[inner sky]

Well for one, unbind ambush

[slim hare]

read faq

apply faq

profit

[static crescent]

Im not good at reading logs but, you should never use ambush as outlaw, both hes trinkets are giga awful,

[slim hare]

and do less than tank anyzay

[static crescent]

Id post him the outlaw FAQ from here or make him drag himself here to read

[light mountain]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2738766711?t=03h38m35s

[vivid vessel]

massive keystoner

[mellow thicket]

wait why is zac on top of the dps meters in that stream?

[somber rivet]

Cheers for the response much appreciated I’ll read up on it. I never understand why he switches classes. He’s played pally for years, knows it in and out but then wants to play something else, struggles, quits. So I want to help him out before that happens

[static crescent]

and not sure if im calculating correctly, but roll seems to have 62.32% uptime

which would mean he doesnt have it on almost half the time

[fluid elbow]

are the cahnges nerf or buff for m+

seems nerf

[edgy walrus]

this is a visual bug and is against the agenda

[buoyant stratus]

[vivid vessel]

i didnt top a single key today

[tiny dagger]

https://giphy.com/gifs/meme-fyp-yayahabes-86oHLSIJTZOeYZAHOP

[static crescent]

dont worry zac, after reset you will

[keen cedar]

Feral is, I guess our 4th spec is going kitty 🤣

[fair iron]

i’m a words guy, not a math guy, but surely this is a net gain, albeit hedged

[mellow thicket]

was the 18 MC not top?

[eternal hound]

You guys top keys?

Bro if I top keys I flame the party

[mellow thicket]

lol

[outer meteor]

so is it a net positive on aoe or ?

i cant do math

[true jackal]

Ermm

so when are we getting buffed

[eternal hound]

Next reset

[true jackal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064999316051198025/1296612075606638682/lmfao.gif

[slim hare]

next expac

[mellow thicket]

the last titan = the last rogue buff

[tiny dagger]

when we get torghast legendaries the spec will be good

[somber rivet]

@static crescent @light mountain thank you for responding, some good points to talk to him about and hopefully up his dps just a tiny bit. Much appreciated

[somber rivet]

Cheers, much appreciated for looking

[weak herald]

its trickster bad?

[next shuttle]

So it is like a 1.36% nerf to BF's effect, but Blade Rush and BF's initial damage should compensate?

And off course better prio damage

[next shuttle]

1.36% of main target damage to aoe damage nerf, so a (1.36/44) 3% overall damage nerf to BF's effect?

[vivid vessel]

@keen belfry

maybe i use suf with quartz?

idk

im not enjoying the fact my addon list is just growing out more everyday

[rich sequoia]

Are we so back with the buffs boys?

(satire)

[mystic berry]

Just saw the notes

I cant believe that we memed "aura buff up. bf nerf" into existence

[grim spear]

[oblique flicker]

and we didnt even have to shut down the discord for it

[wintry solar]

Y'all were meming?

I was so for realsies

[grim spear]

Blizzard could just outsource outlaw’s class tuning to me

I’d only charge $10 a month

[mystic berry]

Notice the lack of developer notes for rogue

in like, 3 past changes

vibe balancing fr

I blame zac for making us look good

[grim spear]

vide balancing would definitely be better than this

[mystic berry]

do we have numbers of net change?

1% buff?

[grim spear]

The amount of time and effort the designers allocate to us is so minimal

it’s probably not even enough for them to learn how to properly play the spec

[keen belfry]

yes set that up

i used quartz in mop

[outer meteor]

so its just a 1% aoe buff and 4% st?

[glass mortar]

3 kir extensions on 2 jackpots

this spec is funny....

[outer meteor]

[wintry solar]

I had 3 back to back jackpots the other day

May have peaked there

[sonic flint]

Any chance Audacity gets to see some play in some way shape or form, kind of liked using Ambush back when it was played 🤔

[glass mortar]

its not as fun anymore anyway

it doesnt fill ur cp bar

[wintry solar]

Nope

[glass mortar]

but it just needs buffs

its too far behind

🤷

they did it on purpose i recon

[mystic berry]

Its a buff to small cleaving and st, a nerf to 8 target

But I dont think solo simmed it yet

[sonic flint]

It was sometime in DF when I last played that and I remember I was having a blast lmao

[cinder relic]

This patch no, later, easily yeah

[analog dove]

weird question, but what would you guys say is about the average single target dps for 255ilvl and no tier?

[kind axle]

garbagio

[cinder relic]

Can we be useful to ppl asking for help

If Ur just gonna make comments like that don't bother

[mystic berry]

Average skill level? I would say 90-100k in a m+ pull and 50k in ST, but I dont really remember tbh

The variance is wild if you are actually good though

[kind axle]

somewhere between like 35-45k maybe depending on the fight I'd guess

[blissful gate]

run ur character on raidbots

very easy answer to that question

[mystic berry]

I think he wants a benchmark

number

if he is geared like shit the sim will come out bad

[blissful gate]

its a pretty good benchmark for what you could hit tbh

and then expect either slightly lower or higher based on how well you play/roll

[analog dove]

like im averaging around 40k on a dummy, but i have a lot of energy issues

[wintry solar]

That's def a rotational issue at play

[analog dove]

I know rogues are in a bad spot, and I feel like im following the roation reasonably well

but my dps is fucking baaaad

[blissful gate]

dummy will always be lower with no raid buffs

just use raidbots its better than using your brain to work this out

[wintry solar]

I don't think people run out of energy with 100% uptime on dummy even with bad rng

[random geyser]

Prolly depends on his haste

[mystic berry]

It can happen

[analog dove]

18%

[mystic berry]

comes down to haste yeah

[blissful gate]

you truly can just run out of energy

it happens

[wintry solar]

Oh then yeah it's haste

[random geyser]

U want like 25%

[wintry solar]

!haste

[ornate heath]

Outlaw's stat prio is generally Crit > Haste* > Vers >= Mastery.

• You need ~21-23% haste for energy, this has priority over crit. That's the haste on your stat page after talents/buffs/flask.
• Crit is then your best stat until you approach ~40%, from there random vers or mastery pieces will be similar.
• You have to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine the exact combination of pieces to use.

[haughty sparrow]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wintry solar]

My energy woes went away at 19%

But got to 22% and it's chill

[analog dove]

ok

[mystic berry]

in aoe you can burn through energy very fast with blade flurry when you have deft

gotta time it a little in dummies

[analog dove]

ok cool, so from what i can gather with this new info, I have room to improve on my rotation, but im not nearly as full throttle shit as I thought I was

[wintry solar]

That's what it looks like

[mystic berry]

outlaw takes a long time to master

it is full of micro mistakes that eat your dps

[cinder relic]

It's a high apm spec with procs and a lot of total buttons

[wintry solar]

I just wish the haste thing was gone from adr

Sigh ...

[hybrid pecan]

When you are at 6cp and have bte available, do you build to 7 or send it at 6?

[lean flax]

Quick question that may have already been answered, with the tuning announced for next week do we gain any damage in AoE or is the 4% aura buff offset by the small nerfs to bf

[frail veldt]

sadly im not sure we would run any less haste

haste is still good past the gcd reduction breakpoint

so as of right now it doesnt change much

[random geyser]

I heard -1% at 8 target but buff otherwise

[frail veldt]

we need haste for energy

[frail veldt]

yeah -1% at 8t, should be a buff under 7 target and above like 10 target

[frail veldt]

bte at 6+

[gaunt phoenix]

it depends on how they modify the aura

[frail veldt]

thats also true yeah

if its only abilities then were cooked

[gaunt phoenix]

not just that

[frail veldt]

what is the modifier at right now

[hybrid pecan]

Even with supercharger?

[frail veldt]

supercharger is not considered in cp levels

you should ignore it entirely in your rotation

[hybrid pecan]

Thought you would want to send at 7cps with supercharger always but ok

thanks

[frail veldt]

is it like a case where our modifier is currently 1.2x so if they increase it by 4 then its less than a 4% buff?

[frail veldt]

nah if you try to build to 7 youll waste cps by proccing over

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw's spec aura is a 27% multiplier, they will either make it 31% or 32%

[hybrid pecan]

Also, in the opener with preparation, do you wait for the first AR to run out before sending the second one or clip it?

[frail veldt]

aaaaah

so its a 4% increase but potentially less than a 4% relative increase

if they dont compensate

[gaunt phoenix]

if they just add +4 then it is 31% and that's a 3.1% dps boost

which would make the bf changes start to lose at 5 targets ish

[frail veldt]

oof

lets hope they dont do that lol

[random geyser]

It's blizzard and you're play outlaw all i can say lmao

[frail veldt]

a man can still hope

[gaunt phoenix]

you wait, you dont clip AR

but you still prep during AR for bte

but if you got lucky with bte resets, you can wait

you dont need to prep if AR has 5 seconds remaining

you feel me

[prisma mango]

That damage buff comes with some blade flurry reductions....overall sidegrade in m+? Or is it a good buff i cant really tell

[lean flax]

Damn if they change the aura buff like that nerfing our AoE at 5 targets and less like

That'd be some shit

Aren't we already like one of the weakest specs at low cleave in the game

[native quiver]

Hey guys, currently struggling on Outlaw rouge. My sim says I should be doing 66,000 DPS but I'm currently maxing out at 43,000 DPS. I think im doing the rotation correctly but am unsure why Im missing out on the extra 20,000 dps. could anyone help?

[junior coral]

are all the wow specs like this? where they post balance tuning and no one knows what the fuck that even means for the game lol? i just got on my computer and scrolled up a bit to see how these tunings effect rogue. see -1% at 8t, prob a buff under 7T and above 10T but that all depends on how they modify the aura (which is apparently 27% multiplier) BUTTTTTT if they just add the 4% aura buff its not actually a 4% aura buff bc its 31% and puts it at a 3.1% dps boost which would make the BF changes start to lose at 5 targets ish.... LMFAO any one else losing their mind when they sit down to play this damn game. ✅

[uneven charm]

Those outlaw changes are great, a game changer, time to drop sub again

Says no one right now

[junior coral]

^^my bad why i usually dont get on discord when i take a tab and play wow. 🤯

[lucid sparrow]

They have zero idea on what to do with rogue

Let alone outlaw

This type of tuning is a spit on the face

[uncut ginkgo]

might as well just give us pistol shot and make us ranged at this point

rather just pistol shot

[dusty magnet]

lmao these buffs r omega dick cheese

[craggy barn]

they will continue to buff us and compensatorily nerf bf until morale increases

[blissful zinc]

lmaooo so no1 knows if its a buff or not?

[craggy barn]

shrug

[uncut ginkgo]

its far from a "buff"

[wintry solar]

Neutral id argue

[gaunt phoenix]

Outlaw Tuning April 7th

- All damage increased by 4%.
- Blade Flurry cleave percentage is now 28% (was 30%).
- (Fatebound) Fate Intertwined bonus is now 5% (was 6%).
- (Trickster) Nimble Flurry bonus is now 25% (was 30%).

• These changes should be about a 3.5% ST gain while ranging from a ~2% cleave gain to a ~1% aoe net loss as target count increases beyond 5. In M+ it is probably a ~1% gain overall.
• Why is Blade Flurry getting nerfed -> apparently they are so content with BF damage that even the smallest spec aura change possible needs to be offset by reducing BF. It is what it is.

Example sims: 1 target | 2 target | 3 target | 4 target | 5 target | 6 target | 7 target | 8 target | Dslice
Update <t:1775274918:R> fixed overrides.

[blissful zinc]

man if they hate the spec so much might as well delete it

still paying for the sins of BFA

[wintry solar]

I think blizz just doesn't like restless and tuning a dps spec around active CDR as much as outlaw

[junior coral]

i feel like they embraced the flow state of outlaw rogue so much, that they flowed us right into the garbage. no foresight or oversight with meaningful intention, just in there in a room like shia labeouf screaming just do it

[lucid sparrow]

yea this is my sign to get off the spec

[kind axle]

leveling my unh dk rn lmao

[vivid vessel]

tomelvis

[gaunt phoenix]

hate that guy

[vagrant kettle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/jake-gyllenhaal-bye-bye

[stiff vector]

looking at the sims is so funny, in the most depressing way possible thanks for doing them solo

[craggy barn]

its tomelvis's fault we lose damage at 4-7 targets

[vivid vessel]

they will put us at 132 imo

thats 3.9%

[gaunt phoenix]

they might

[stiff vector]

3t sim +350dps up to 138k....meanwhile MM hunters

[vivid vessel]

they have been doing it with actual math lately

the last ones they did

so i expect that rather than +4

tho you never know

could get fucked over again

[eternal hound]

I swear blizz just

dosen't like specs that do AoE and ST with the same rota

Like

From our knowledge, this same logic was used for the inital garbage reap changes for warrior

[gaunt phoenix]

oh, you're right, the last 4% was 34 -> 39

[stiff vector]

looking at the variance of the dslice is actually hilarious

[vivid vessel]

i know

[gaunt phoenix]

i will update

[junior coral]

bruh ret pally...

[vivid vessel]

solo

last time i was wrong ?

[wintry solar]

Yesterday

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

[lucid sparrow]

[sullen walrus]

can someone send macro for auto tricks on tank

pls

[vivid vessel]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[sullen walrus]

❤️

[vivid vessel]

np

[stiff vector]

its truly incredible they made the spec basically worse in almost every way, while also dramatically increasing variance despite REMOVING the old RTB buffs. Thats actually crazy work.

[kind vapor]

so is there a buff coming or what

[tiny dagger]

nope

class is shit reroll

[vagrant kettle]

nerf i think

[kind vapor]

betrayed by blizzard, we should shutdown the discord like the pallys

[sullen walrus]

thanks!

[lucid sparrow]

yea the buff is u do 500k more dps at the downside of ur class color changing

[tiny dagger]

think about all the time u put gearing a char

and do it again on a diff one

[kind axle]

I'm going from mustard to ketchup. gonna be whataburger spicy ketchup to be specific

[stiff vector]

79k dps min D slice, 172k max is wild. D slice variance hasnt been nearly this bad in a long time.

[gaunt phoenix]

updated, it's more like 3.5% on 1 target and then target count range is more like +2% ... -0.5%

so, the loss is pretty minimal

still lame as fuck it was all that necessary

[keen belfry]

ive died to blade rush like 8 times today

whats going on guys

[gaunt phoenix]

skill issued it seems

[keen belfry]

maybe bad proc?

[austere hawk]

whats decent adr uptime looking like these days

[wintry solar]

I miss coup dash

[gaunt phoenix]

i believe AR uptime with prep should approach 40%

[teal agate]

I think this sums up the issue, patchwerk fights no longer exist and most of this season doesn't have 8+ on a boss. So ST is a drastically misleading data point and 8+ only matter is M+.

[gaunt phoenix]

Slice variance is definitely the highest it's ever been

[hasty fable]

Prep still okay to drop for an extra point in Summarily Dispatched?

or that getting to be a thing

[gaunt phoenix]

Most higher keys are using prep

but it's fine to drop it

[hasty fable]

Raid only here :3

[gaunt phoenix]

In raid you should use prep

[coral wyvern]

I guess this "Buff" is placebo at best? Seems like a huge nothing burguer

[lucid sparrow]

whats with the random trickster nerf

[placid ocean]

it's a blade flurry nerf

to compensate for the 4% buff

[lucid sparrow]

god forbid

[frail veldt]

I think the intern who does outlaw changes just does a ctrl + f and reduces anything with bladeflurry in it when they buff st

[wintry solar]

My theory is they don't want anyone using it because of reasons fortold

[lucid sparrow]

I curse the ppl tuning rogue

[coral wyvern]

I wanted to run killing spree, but I guess trickster should take some extra nerfs until live

[lucid sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/its-a-curse-a-curse-from-me-to-you-jjk-jjk-season-3-jujutsu-kaisen-season-3-gif-8786457240882911831

[frail veldt]

the trickster nerf should be evened out by the st buff

will prob perform about the same

which is 2-5% behind fatebound in m+

[uneven charm]

The issue I had was I am now in 13s, people wanna pull big, outlaw just can't compete here

[round vault]

https://tenor.com/view/jump-like-a-horse-jump-horse-girl-gif-20780335

[daring yoke]

Is blizz so scared of buffing outlaw that triple outlaw comp might be returning?

[fossil lintel]

They can't have outlaw be meta or they may need to actually spend time working on it

[keen belfry]

our 3 target getting a .9% buff is so funny

[daring yoke]

What if we got this for pve instead

[wintry solar]

Show the rest of it

[rare rapids]

4% aura buff and BF gets nerfed too LMAO

[silk stirrup]

Is it even a buff?

Looks like a nerf to trickster which was already behind

[fickle relic]

Another out of touch changes, not surprised

[next shuttle]

Wait, why is are the changes a 3.5% st buff?

[eternal hound]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/the-war-on-addons-continues-on-mythic-lura-381108?utm_source=discord-webhook Aw shit

here we go again

[silk stirrup]

I wish they would buff outlaw mastery

[eternal hound]

na

rework that shit

[keen belfry]

crazy they buffed it by 150% in beta and its still bad

[lucid sparrow]

maybe if it wasnt as corny of a mastery like swinging ur offhand does more dmg sometimes

[serene urchin]

man puggin to push fucking SUCKS

[silk stirrup]

I think the problem is the oppsite

Wish most masteries weren't a boring "increase damage by X%"

What's the point of mastery at that point, it's crit 2.0

[long depot]

R we back?

[devout yarrow]

u think outlaw was only behind by 4%

[silver umbra]

#outlaw message

[silk stirrup]

It's not a 4% buff btw lol

[long depot]

Look at the bigger picture

[junior coral]

So im not a fan of AI, and i think the younger generation is shafted by having access to it... but this cracks me up

[lucid sparrow]

next tuning pass focused on Hero Talent diversity, cant wait for the 5% trickster buff but 10% blade flurry nerf to compensate

[polar kelp]

It's literally a aoe nerf with slight st gain....and we are target capped so sweet ...

[long depot]

This shows they are willing to buff us we just gotta wait now one small step at a time

[devout yarrow]

ya its less than that

[polar kelp]

It's like a 3.5%aoe nerf overall if my quick math is right

[edgy walrus]

@polar kelp

[uneven charm]

Again, high end M+ is mostly big pulls. Outlaw in these scenarios is just behind.

[polar kelp]

Well quick math is you do 100 damage now with 30 aoe.....now you do 104 damage with 29 aoe (%28 instead of 30%)....so 29 compared to 30 is like a 3.5% nerf

Either way, it's nerf aoe when we are already target capped....and small st gain but still can't take advantage of amp phases anyway

[naive river]

just make outlaw a tank spec

[frail veldt]

no

its only a nerf at 8 target

and its a 1% nerf

at less than 7 and more than like 9 or 10 targets its probably a buff

DEPENDING

on how the 4% is applied

[vague cape]

yo ngl

can they compensate the butchery that happened to flurry without precise

or was outlaw looking too threatening in raid cleave

[frail veldt]

solo made a pin

[vague cape]

shoutout solo

but

his pin isn't talking about how criminal it is for OL to suck at 2-3

[frail veldt]

no thats been true since they removed PC

ofc we were gona suck at low cleave

we lost the talent that explicitly made us good at low target cleave lol

[wintry solar]

Didn't people want it gone?

[vague cape]

idc if they get rid of it

I just don't want outlaw to be shit at the thing it was known for?

outlaw was among some of the best specs right below the elite 2t specs

2nd boss priory, we destroyed it

[frail veldt]

zac did but I think he had too much faith that blizzard would then tune us up enough to still be good at low cleave

outside of the times that pc got us nerfed like s3 tww

it was usually a great thing to have

[wintry solar]

The young one lacks foresight

How tragic

[glass mortar]

we wanted it gone because the pathing of it forced u to give up tremendous ST for aoe

which is not a tradeoff outlaw usually makes

last season AOE builds legit did like 18% less ST then St builds

PC pathing sucked

should be baseline

or somewhere else

gone is tragic tho

we went from doing 90-100% addition damage on 2 targets to 20% in one expac

[wintry solar]

You wanted it gone but not gone just placed elsewhere or baseline?

[glass mortar]

gone was assuming theyd tune us correctly

[blissful gate]

!sims

[ornate heath]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[glass mortar]

if they werent gunna do that then preferably somewhere else or baseline

losing our low target cleave is craziness

[wintry solar]

Don't worry, we'll get something next expansion. That's an expansion level change and all.

[frail veldt]

I feel like thats pretty fixable lol

[glass mortar]

it def was

[wintry solar]

Get monkey paw'd idiot

Blizz was happy to oblige lmao

[vague cape]

i can't even cope outlaw has a niche in raid anymore

if kurog were to return we would not be able to compete with dagger specs

[unkempt dew]

Oh well it is what it is

Its not that Blizz says oh they don’t like it let’s revert it

[vague cape]

if they want to make OL so shit at 2-3 they have to remove the hardcap

[unkempt dew]

Yeah won’t be doing that anytime soon

[vague cape]

the current state of things goes against the idea that if you're bad at one thing you aught to be decent at the other

law atm is just meh until you get to like 5-6t

i'd say it feels stronger at 8 than last expac

but then that's it

this can't be justified

[wintry solar]

The fact I can't see my buff uptime to gain an unfair advantage makes me more upset

[keen belfry]

whats fine about these changes, it makes our very good dmg profile even better

we do quite good prio and ST in keys

[agile orchid]

Legit fire the current rogue dev

Outlaw went from one of the best cleave specs to the worst

Aoe blind got removed for God knows what reason

[keen belfry]

i really do hate our low target power

[agile orchid]

Energy issues remaining

[keen belfry]

shit is sstupid

[agile orchid]

Just get someone else in

[wintry solar]

Coming back

[agile orchid]

The fact it got removed in the first place is extremely dumb

Please just bring someone new

[wintry solar]

If they removed stuff from everyone else it'd have been fine but nooooo

[frail veldt]

same reason for any of the rogue/outlaw changes

[patent mirage]

it looks like they are scared of bf dmg

[sinful dagger]

Good Morning @all from EU.

[haughty wigeon]

Bet guys

What I miss?

[sinful dagger]

ouhh we got a nerf..... sad morning

[wintry solar]

I've never seen an ability tuned to do 28% of anything

[glass shard]

!faq

[twilit spruce]

guys i think its time to close the discord

[unique fulcrum]

Real

Lets riot

[novel isle]

Few people I saw simmed and it was a buff for them

I might be stupid but +4% on everything with some small -2% on 2 abilities still sounds like a buff

[proven surge]

Why the-2% in the first place

Actual clown tuning

https://tenor.com/view/roulette-game-gif-6892854051717800041

Blizzard tuning meeting

Are we nerfing BF today

[sinful dagger]

Bf nerf is totaly unacceptable

[river wing]

bruhhhh what the fuck is that tuning

[wintry solar]

Idk how many more nerfs BF can take lol

[sinful dagger]

20%

[unkempt cypress]

Will outlaw ever be meta in m+ again

Or is it mix of dk mage aug every fking season

Does blizz have a balance team that can do more than read warcraftlogs and balance only for raid @blizzarddumbfucks

[sinful dagger]

no need 4 meta, but this tuning is muck around

[unkempt cypress]

Imagine this: a meta that had variety not dk every season

Crazy thought

OL been mid at best since bfa

This xpac worst of all time not even close

[wintry solar]

Not remotely true but okay

[hot olive]

https://giphy.com/gifs/KsMT02cXvy0AN7j4Md

[sullen geode]

Just bring back HO please 🙂

[remote pecan]

Tree rat will survive that now after nerf

[proven surge]

I would pay $$$$$$$$ to see Teams conversation of blizzard tuning devs

[haughty wigeon]

And here is the real dilemma.

Current Midnight Outlaw is just BFA Outlaw/Combat Rogue. Remove RTB and it is 100% Combat Rogue again.

Which is ironic that all the effort to make a new spec and we are looking at a full circle moment where Combat makes a comeback. Remove RTB and the full circle is complete.

I call that Karmic justice and retribution ladies and gentlemen.

Amen.

👍

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[river wing]

bloody Mafic

[civic zephyr]

do we have new sims yet to actually compare the buff/nerf situation or is it all still speculation?

[proven surge]

Check pins

Solo kinda did some example sims

[civic zephyr]

oh nice

i dont understand the logic in how we can say this will be a slight overall gains in M+ when most pulls are bigger than 5 targets.

[river wing]

bc you spend about 40% of M+ killing bosses which are usually singletarget or duo cleave where the buff does improve your damage

[fresh cairn]

expected 10% buff @ got nerfed in AOE
Life when

[civic zephyr]

So is this something we will actually even notice in game while we play since what the pin is saying we will see roughly a 1% gain?

[craggy barn]

no, its not a huge enough change to be that noticeable

[civic zephyr]

this is from a 13 WS if we say 1% more dmg roughly that would mean we still lose hard to the other classes? yeah i wouldnt even notice this number going to 102k..i would be like cool maybe i got an extra crit next run lol

[craggy barn]

we still have a good amount of variance

[civic zephyr]

My issue is we don't bring anything to these groups that impact how little damage we are doing

my 3.6% dr isn't keeping the tank alive.. and doesnt all rouges get this anyway?

[craggy barn]

they are being hyper conservative with their changes for outlaw bc i guess theyre scared about how numbers affect things

[frail veldt]

Yeah this really wasn't meant to be an m+ buff I don't think

Just kind of a little piss buff for raid

[civic zephyr]

Yeah i guess even looking at raid...this is so not good...

do we not see an issue here....

6 outlaw rouges have been able to be apart of this kill on HEROIC

[frail veldt]

I think you aren't considering the possibility that this is where blizz wants outlaw

[civic zephyr]

Tbh that thought doesnt matter to me. Blizz should not just put a stamp and say outlaw is here bc we want it to be, it should be fine tuned with math

[craggy barn]

the number of heroic parses is pretty small rn for midnight falls

[civic zephyr]

same goes for any other class or spec

[craggy barn]

6 laws isnt that surprising

when the amount of law parses in general is prettty low

like arcane and fire mages have 1 parse on heroic lura

[tribal cosmos]

Why the cuck

Do they always

Cook outlaw

[civic zephyr]

ye but it shouldnt be like that. we shouldnt be forced to play something else when we pay our monthly subs to this company too...its a math game after 25 years they should be able to do it

[tribal cosmos]

Who the fuck is balancing outlaw

Stop balancing outlaw youre failing

Set blade flurry to 50% and stop lowering it

https://tenor.com/view/rrane-battal-rrane-battal-kızgın-battal-kızgın-gif-25355985

[civic zephyr]

the only reason i have not canceled my sub until its fixed is because i have a raid team that is counting on their rouge to be there.

[wintry solar]

Rouge

[tribal cosmos]

They need to just stop ngl

[civic zephyr]

yeah..they want a rouge we are not liquid we don't get BiS gear and then go raid and run mythic splits we like the damage reduction it provides.

[wintry solar]

I wonder what changed between then and now that made them decide to gut BF

[grim spear]

This boss doesn't have much numerical difficulty, anything can work.
The reason there are so few outlaws is that hardly anyone plays outlaw anymore.

[tribal cosmos]

Bro they didnt gut BF they just chopped it up and gave it to everyone else

And btw THEY MADE IT BETTER ON OTHER PEOPLE

[civic zephyr]

why do you think that is?

[tribal cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/what-the-dog-dog-loading-dog-confuse-corgi-wide-corgi-gif-5677220482674247561

[wintry solar]

We can make up metaphors all day, point is it's not even half as good anymore

[tribal cosmos]

Back in the day outlaw was 140 apm with 0 damage

[wintry solar]

In one swoop

[tribal cosmos]

Now its 100 apm with 0 smg

Dmg

[grim spear]

Because I'm one of these six.

[civic zephyr]

so combined we are 2 of the 6 lol....

[tribal cosmos]

Bro just uncap blade flurry or soft capp it

[grim spear]

[civic zephyr]

that doesnt answer anything tho

[tribal cosmos]

And give outlaw a better kit

[grim spear]

yep

[tribal cosmos]

This is just not outlaw

https://tenor.com/view/judgement-cat-cat-angry-cat-cat-face-cat-forehead-gif-4731341898773190051

[grim spear]

Outlaw is pure trash in raids right now.

[tribal cosmos]

When have they not been

Outlaw is the antithesis of raiding

So many damage amps in every tier so many over cap adds and it hates haste

[wintry solar]

Which is fine if it's really good in M+ but it's not

[tribal cosmos]

Bro its outlaws worst season

Most of these dungeons are 40 mobs man

[wintry solar]

I'm aware

[tribal cosmos]

Meaning AA outlaw useless

Pit useless

Magister useless

[grim spear]

We used to have some advantages on certain bosses, and the ability to perform well with only early gears.

[tribal cosmos]

Shit bro even sky reach useless

Spire useless

[grim spear]

Now we have nothing, there's really no reason to bring us at all.

[tribal cosmos]

We used to stack vers and live everything

Now we are forced into haste like some cuck

[wintry solar]

I'm pretty sure outlaws performance in keys isn't that bad. Middle of the pack iirc

[civic zephyr]

we still have prio damage with blade flurry in a way...but may as well play arcane mage if you want to prio damage something.

[tribal cosmos]

Just play uhdk

Tankier

[craggy barn]

play uhdk everywhere but pit

lol

[tribal cosmos]

Grippier

Better

[heady dawn]

They fixed pit

[tribal cosmos]

Play augvoker

Kidney punch but aoe

Anti dot

Healing

Freedom

Knock

Tank buff

Healer buff

[grim spear]

In the previous tier, we at least had some advantage with low targets cleave, and soul hunters performed decently overall.

Pure st wasn't completely unacceptable either

[tribal cosmos]

No low target cleave is MM hunter its over

Mm hunter bounce their witttle arrow

[grim spear]

Now we have literally nothing

[tribal cosmos]

And do 20000k dmg

[civic zephyr]

I wish Kidney did more damage....it feels bad to press since it uses combo points.

[grim spear]

can't handle big waves, no burst, no damage on low targets, and no damage on st either.

[tribal cosmos]

No tankiness

[grim spear]

nothing

[tribal cosmos]

30% vers

Felt so insane

[civic zephyr]

like wh ydoes paladin hodge not cost holy power?

[tribal cosmos]

No stretch arms

[civic zephyr]

they have aoe stun every 30 seconds with it too lol

[tribal cosmos]

We were literally thE OG devourwr

With stretchy arms

Like

People have no idea how insane having stretchy arms , perma sprint , high vers , like we were niche but we were good

[civic zephyr]

why does feint and crimson vial cost almost = the cost of 1 sinister strike...feels impossible to press both of them at the same time.

like so many neunces i just dont get

[tribal cosmos]

Dont worry tho eventually

blade flurry will be 15% damage !

Do we have a statistical chart for BF damage over time ?

Like shadow priest with psychic link

[craggy barn]

they will keep aura buffing us and nerfing blade flurry until morale improves

[grim spear]

Even the gameplay this tier is dumb

[craggy barn]

here's the chart 📉

[tribal cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/slop-chef-slop-gif-24370124

Outlaw dev

[civic zephyr]

i mean i dont care what button does all our damage as long as something is doing it

[tribal cosmos]

Shit bro they even removed weakauras

[grim spear]

no synergy, no feel. BTE has projectile travel time, and when RTB isn't ideal, I feel completely helpless, nothing to do

[tribal cosmos]

So getting 8 BTEs dont even feel good

You think the rogue dev got murked

[grim spear]

most unfun spec to play rn

[tribal cosmos]

Has to be dead

[civic zephyr]

dying feels a billion times worse after you just press Adrenaline Rush and RTB also...feels like your just a sitting duck for the next minute.

[tribal cosmos]

Or trapped in a cell

Thats always been a thing

When 99% adren was a thing

Tindral was horrible

Legit horrible

[wintry solar]

Only Gravedigger has travel because who knows why

Consistency is a sin at Blizz HQ

[tribal cosmos]

I legit think they just

Remove outlaw

Remove rogue

And oh no 0.5% of the playerbase is without a home

Whatever will they do

Except reroll UHDK

[mental lantern]

lol i just started playing outlaw. look at the outlaw discord and its crashout central

[civic zephyr]

I am new to this class, so i can't compare it to old stuff, but what i can say is its fun to play just the tunings don't feel good to me is all. I like the rotation the reaction times and all of that. I don't even care about travel time on BTE or pistol shot, we are shooting bullets afterall...hunters have travel time on their stuff so do mages and all other ranged specs..

[grim spear]

It's still horrible now. After long periods of not doing anything, there's still no damage, no difference

[wintry solar]

It's always like this after tuning

[grim spear]

just giving you ADR as a cope, so you have something to press.

[tribal cosmos]

ADR just need to be a passive bro

Like why even

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-the-frog-muppets-meme-smh-shaking-my-head-gif-16984538577250620315

[wintry solar]

Why even have adr when it's a passive? I agree

[mental lantern]

i do feel for you guys tho im really enjoying the SPEC but the class holy fuck, coming from evoker to this pile of shit of class abilities is crazy

like i feel like its some shit from 2004 in class design but spec design is cool af

[tribal cosmos]

When it was a proc class it had nuance and rules

Now its

https://tenor.com/view/12345-one-two-three-four-five-counting-akad-bakad-bombay-bo-confused-gif-18753573

[wintry solar]

Procs but less so

[tribal cosmos]

Every button you pressed had to follow a rule

One of 200 rules

https://tenor.com/view/bilizz-gif-16660729688486425416

Exaggerated of course but

[civic zephyr]

How will the buffs feel on fights like Imperator Averzian where its single target into a big add fiesta for 20 seconds then back to single target? Overall buff ye?

[wintry solar]

TWW outlaw is the only time a spec has been like that in the history of the game, there's no way something like that would continue nor happen again

[tribal cosmos]

It should happen again

[wintry solar]

Why

[tribal cosmos]

Revert weak auras

Revert changes

[craggy barn]

#nochanges

[tribal cosmos]

And make outlaw nuancsd and niche

Because people enjoyed outlaw back then

We had massive disgustingly stupid weaknesses

But the class was so fun everyone played if for vibes

145 apm

100 rules

[wintry solar]

We had the same weaknesses as before wdym??

[civic zephyr]

i think the playstyle is good, don't change the playstyle to much. Maybe spice it up with something here or there, but there should never be a list of IF A happens then Do B but if A and B happen then do C....its to complicated and not fun to play

[craggy barn]

giga doomering

[tribal cosmos]

The zac weakauras for bte reset

[craggy barn]

[wintry solar]

Only thing that changed was adr pausing

[tribal cosmos]

Shit

The dooming every patch

But we were fine

This time

Its actually cooked

https://tenor.com/view/dog-crying-meme-doggo-crys-megan-soo-crying-dog-gif-5276199764143986284

[wintry solar]

Maybe it's time to write that Dear John and reroll

[craggy barn]

series of disappointing patches constantly does make one feel helpless and doomer

[wintry solar]

If you let it have that much weight on you sure

[civic zephyr]

i have some relativly decent pumpers in my guildatm if these buffs feel good i'll be the first to tell ya - Mythic Saladhar

[tiny onyx]

guys are we the middle child?

[tribal cosmos]

Outlaw numbers were small back then

[wintry solar]

Or maybe it's because I've played for so long I just drc anymore

[craggy barn]

shrug its whatever to me. ill keep playing outlaw, theyd have to do something majorly drastic to stop me

[tribal cosmos]

But it was larger then whatever the fuck this desert town is now

[wintry solar]

Same

Like

Idek

[craggy barn]

even a reversion to pure combat prob wont make me quit

[tribal cosmos]

Everyone rerolled uhdk

[craggy barn]

would have to be giga bad

[wintry solar]

Yeah, they could delete RB and there's still a decent chance I'd play still

[craggy barn]

like if they reverted outlaw to wod combat, id still play

anything before that maybe not

lol

[wintry solar]

WoD CP was like wool being pulled from my eyes

And I was actually mad they didn't do it sooner

[civic zephyr]

that is how i feel about it, i like how it feels to play, lets just get the numbers where they feel good now.

[wintry solar]

No other class has Dreadblades mog

So I'm kinda stuck

[craggy barn]

if i wasnt forced to tank id be outlaw in my main raid sadge

[civic zephyr]

tanking right now...now that is a real problem that needs solved even bigger problem than we have...its not newb friendly atm, its not casual player friendly at all.

[grim spear]

Blizzard should just fire the Rogue designer

if there even is one.

[river wing]

quit the game
ngl these last few months have been very disheartening

[wintry solar]

I've been through worse

The older folk will tell you

It can get much worse

Matter of fact, I'm going to tempt fate

Theres no way they can make it any worse

[craggy barn]

it never will be because of the responsibilities of tanking.

[wintry solar]

But once you learn to tank, it's so chill ime

[craggy barn]

ye

i main tank as bdk

giga chill for me

[wintry solar]

Dude same

[craggy barn]

notso for anyone else pepw

[wintry solar]

Yeah it's great

[craggy barn]

rn im just shocked i parse so well

[wintry solar]

I don't mind the direction blood went tbh

[craggy barn]

i havent really raid tanked fully until end of last season in prep

[wintry solar]

The active CDR part blows but I'm enjoying it

[craggy barn]

shrug. bdk hasnt felt different for me for years

[wintry solar]

Lack of CDR*

[craggy barn]

bdk feels the same to me since bfa

[wintry solar]

Based

I feel the same with assa

[civic zephyr]

I mean more on their survivablity front, that stuff will come in time learning routes and managing pulls. As is living pulls, but that right now for casuals its a bit to hard.

okay going stealthy key time.

[craggy barn]

season 1 tanking issues blizzard doesnt ever get right

every time

[civic zephyr]

yeah its normally kite city

[wintry solar]

It's tradition

[craggy barn]

low stats no gear

tank suffer

[crimson scarab]

What do you guys think about the outlaw buffs?

[still matrix]

Wow we got a buff

[crimson scarab]

I don’t get why they nerf BF like that

[fluid meadow]

/cast blade flurry /cancelaura bladeflurry maybe if no aoe dmg just cp generating they will buff it (no). so sim is like 1% but what about nocomp runs and avg players? exactly a nerf?

[crimson scarab]

What are they trying to offset

[real tulip]

someone at blizzard thinks outlaw does too much aoe

had to bench my rogue because it felt like I was griefing my friends

[crimson scarab]

They are concerned we can outdps the tank on the 1st academy pull

[north sapphire]

lol, me too brother

[real tulip]

when I play dk it feels like someone actually cares about the class

[north sapphire]

i rolled into mm, hate every second playing it 😄

[patent mirage]

i still cant understand how they do numbers

" them rogues are way too strong "

[inner yacht]

im curios what stats they are looking at that they think ol its gonna be too strong with just the aura buff

[river wing]

probably zac doing m+ or smth

[obsidian basin]

None, it's probably just vibes

They are only buffing the classes that are supposed to be strong

[inner yacht]

also its the second aura buff in a row. these people are probably so clueless abt ol that they are scared to buff singular abilities

[patent mirage]

like : unholy dk bad? no no we cant have that

rogue bad? who cares

[hardy wigeon]

stop the count!

[north sapphire]

Its overall?

[grim spear]

It's not surprising
After all, our own mod would just tell them "just undertuned."

[river wing]

ngl it is interesting how other classes get precision buffs/nerfs on specific stuff
outlaw basically goes "aura buff, BF nerf"

[grim spear]

This spec is fun, easy to pick up, and it definitely won't be the worst spec.

[hardy wigeon]

yes in another dimension where we are the meta class

[proven ocean]

It is the worst spec tho

Why lie

Both assa and sub are better

[crimson scarab]

I think it’s super RNG dependent, if u get stage 1 u use 2 stacks of tea and its super hard to recover

[gaunt rover]

Am I dumb or isnt this still a net positive for aoe

[proven ocean]

It is a net positive overall

Net negative on 5 targets

It literally says it

In the pin

Can’t read or

[quasi bone]

sorry boys its an sin angle now

[jolly jacinth]

wtf they literally nerf outloiw?!?!

[grim spear]

like I said, the designers know nothing about RNG designing

[grim spear]

I was just quoting some mod.

[quasi bone]

they will fix outlaw in 12.0.5 trust

[gaunt rover]

No red dot didnt check no need to be rude

[real glade]

question if your not running hidden opp do u even press ambush ever?

[quasi bone]

no

[real glade]

ty

[quasi bone]

how does sin actually feel to play i havent touched it

[zinc briar]

how can we force blizzard to fire the outlaw dev?

[wild heath]

Is there even one to begin with

[jolly geyser]

No

[zinc briar]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/rogue-buffs-and-tank-tuning-incoming-upcoming-class-tuning-on-april-7th-381105?page=5#p6324164

spam coments there

rage about outlaw changes

[patent mirage]

yes rage

let it flow through you

[normal forge]

Blizzard hates outlaw

[quasi bone]

ur doing gods work soldier

[mint wharf]

should we close the disc?

[river wing]

it doesn't matter
nothing matters
closing the discord is a meme
ret pallies are, at this very moment, four times more numerous than all rogue specs combined
blizzard will never allow them to suck because that's basically 1/7th of their entire customer base

outlaw? less than 1 percent, nobody gives a shit about out(law/lier)

as long as we're not top-5, everything is fine for blizz

no wait, I fucked up, ret pallies are only 2.5 times more numerous than all rogues combined, my mistake

still like 8% of their playerbase

[patent mirage]

#shutitdown

bf the bane of existence for wow devs

[wild heath]

[quasi bone]

God bless ret pallies and void jesus's

[timid idol]

what

they

COMPENSATED NERFED OUTLAW?

[narrow pasture]

safe to assume outlaw viability will stay right where it is for the remainder

so reroll at your discretion

[zinc briar]

and massive cancel suscript, u can pay it back when actual expires, saying that its because outlaw is unplayable for high end

[proven ocean]

[timid idol]

im already devourer since m+ release

[narrow pasture]

nothing will happen, 200 people play outlaw on the top end

[timid idol]

cya next xpac bros

[meager lichen]

like @river wing said, they only care about the mass of players, outlaw is just a birdshit...they only do things to make us believe that they care...

[zinc briar]

i will do it anyway

saying that nothing will happen wont fix nothing 100%

[narrow pasture]

im personally chilling bench as guild is already progging paladins, will likely skip the season or roll devourer for m+

[timid idol]

makes sense why they actually fixed ret when they threw a fit

isnt pal most or 2nd most played class

[zinc briar]

ill fight for what i wnt

[narrow pasture]

you can fight, just dont get your hopes up

[timid idol]

i still dont understand how a glass cannon full dps class is this bad at dps

literally 0 utility

but muh pvp but muh 1 extra cc in dungeons

[river wing]

what 1 extra cc in dungeons

[narrow pasture]

we cant know what's lead to this rogue viability narrative unless someone has insider blizz info

[river wing]

kidney?

[narrow pasture]

so whatever

[river wing]

the one you have to waste actual damage on?

[timid idol]

idk man these are the arguments i see people unironically use

when this class has 0 utility and upside compared to dk

[timid idol]

yes literally

[river wing]

yeah I wish we actually knew what their design thinks of state of Rogue

[timid idol]

when would you EVER pick rogue over dk (5000th time ive asked this)

[zinc briar]

we dont even have aoe blind

are we the only dps without aoe cc?

[timid idol]

even if we had it

[river wing]

yes

[narrow pasture]

correct

[river wing]

not to worry tho, we'll have it back in 12.0.5
(in the same shape as TWW, i.e. slightly worse than most other AoE CCs, but at least usable)

[timid idol]

:D

there was a guy on reddit

saying that if u buff something like outlaw on single targer (idk what this means considering its an aura buff) you have to tune the aoe/cleave

my blood veins almost popped

these people have not looked at where outlaw is on dps ranks compared to other specs

[river wing]

it's correct in a vacuum
except like
our ST is unremarkable and our cleave is in the dumpster on most target counts

[timid idol]

its correct

if you're talking about an average spec you're trying to buff to above average

not a literal bot 4 spec

[narrow pasture]

keep in mind vast majority of people dont know how other classes even function, let alone to make valid comments on how they should be tuned

[timid idol]

one of ours trying his hardest to have his spec saved

[glass shard]

@fathom bramble 🫡

[narrow pasture]

idk why ppl are focusing on one spec

this tuning will literally bring all 3 rogue specs together in numbers

at the bottom

[glass shard]

i only play 1 spec

:c

[narrow pasture]

its the class that's busted, more importantly than law vs assa vs sub

[glass shard]

rogue is busted ?

[narrow pasture]

in the bad meaning

[glass shard]

i c

[timid idol]

im pretty sure we have a dev with a vendetta against rogue at blizz

some sorta mage main thats upset on rogues

otherwise it makes no sense

the only less played class than ours is the newest one

[narrow pasture]

more annoyingly you cant easily swap between the specs due to different weapons/stat prios

[timid idol]

that too

was thinking of finally trying sub bcs its easier now and you dont need to track 30 cds anymore

and it feels much easier to understand

then i thought about how i'd need to change every item i had on me bcs stat differences

[narrow pasture]

its easy to learn

[timid idol]

[narrow pasture]

but you need to get 800 mastery from gear

[novel isle]

shiiii

[obsidian light]

do we have any alternative to that weakaura that kept /say the countdown for shroud/cloak?

[meager lichen]

do we have any alternative to push blizz to rly buff outlaw? 😄

[pastel cloud]

when should i use prep in raid?

[meager lichen]

#1174378766622015508 message

[glass shard]

is using helm slot for embelishment fine?

[astral jay]

I'm usually an outlaw one trick pony, so: Question to the fellow pirate cosmic gambler cowboys in here: How do the playstyles of assa and sub feel rn?

[grave rose]

Sub is smooth / easy

Haven't tried sin yet

[timid idol]

i was dismissive of sub but it feels ok

granted i haven't done any serious content

but the small amount i played felt way better than pre prune sub

[astral jay]

alright, sounds good enough to give it another shot after TWW

[zinc briar]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/rogue-buffs-and-tank-tuning-incoming-upcoming-class-tuning-on-april-7th-381105#comments
Dont forget to write about your feelings of this good dev that we have

[weary goblet]

it's funny, outlaw gets "better" tuning than the tanks

wild times

[meager lichen]

But please, constructive or honest feedback—no bashing or insults; that doesn't help anyone.

[timid idol]

thats bad

if tanks are begging for outlaw treatment we in super hell

[weary goblet]

Just look at prot paladin "We've notice they struggle with magic dmg, so now they do more dmg"

[patent mirage]

i would really want to hear to an official response to ho they came up with such numbers

[slim hare]

i dont see where insulting ia is a problem

[patent mirage]

like not even a developer's note there

[agile orchid]

how much feedback do they need to understand nerfing bladefurry is dumb

all they care about is making the rogue experience as miserable as possible

nerfing energy, nerfing bladeflurry, removing aoe blind

[meager lichen]

im on your side...but you know how it is...they maybe read, but if its insulting, they ignore it even more...does not help

[agile orchid]

being stubborn about ace not giving enough combo points

it's pointless

just nerf outlaw more so people play that braindead spec sub turned into

hurr durr shuriken storm black powder

[wise willow]

As a player learning outlaw, just wondering is it okay tracking just Blade flurry, loaded dice, dice roll or is it worth trackng the other buffs like coins aswell 🙂

[agile orchid]

imagine turning the spec that was good in low target cleave but bad in big aoe into a spec dogshit at both

great job dev

[timid idol]

i am telling u

they have ptsd from bfa

[slim hare]

no

[patent mirage]

the sins of bfa s2

[slim hare]

no one working in bfa

[agile orchid]

no, the dev is a moron

[slim hare]

is still here

its impossible

[glass shard]

bro this guy took my craft

and then never made it ??

hostaging my sparks man wtf is that

[random carbon]

Can someone explain why when i have loaded dice buff after pressing AR i dont get upper stage Rtb?

[slim hare]

you get stage 2

at least

[random carbon]

Its not guaranteed stage upgrade?

[slim hare]

no its stage 2 or higher

which is fine

[random carbon]

Ah… thought its guaranteed

[slim hare]

the main thing being dont be on stage 1

stage 1 = bad no energy no dmg