pog
#outlaw
narrow pasture
vivid vessel
watch me kill boss
random stirrup
i will help my healers twofold by giving us dr and taking 0 dmg from mechanics
vivid vessel
(no)
random stirrup
and i will not do damage
random stirrup
gonna play sub and press dance around mechanics for the fade dr too
stable nest
do you have a vod of them trying , i gotta play pally on rogue (sin) and wanna see how bad it is xdd
cinder relic
I mean either way I'm having fun playing my rogue
I genuinely like how all 3 specs play
cinder relic
Ofc there are rough edges but there always are
severe charm
zero is gonna get ass nerfed in keys lol
low glade
in the same way zac is gonna get outlaw nerfed in keys?
mighty pivot
gonna play sub and press dance around mechanics for the fade dr too
run ephemeral too for more efficient healing
severe charm
I mean, he is just taking everyone to gapplebees. what meta
low glade
not a good measure of a spec's strength, when the giga one trick gooners are blasting
gaunt phoenix
marksman gameplay looks riveting
cinder relic
do you have a vod of them trying , i gotta play pally on rogue (sin) and wanna s...
Uhhh idk honestly
severe charm
i think eu rogues might just be better than us na rogues in general
cinder relic
I'm sure one of their players streamed
low glade
eu rogues have more time to play
na rogues have no healthcare and work 80 hours a week
cinder relic
I think part of the issue is that like, sin is going to look ass at the start of the fight
Like prog Ur not getting the execute cd set until the kill yk
severe charm
sin scales, the more hp the mob the better the spec looks
cinder relic
So it's damage looks exceptionally bad
cinder relic
LOLOL
severe charm
which is why high keys sin slaps
cinder relic
I think if u can play outlaw and have it prepped it's an outlaw boss
stable nest
i can play law, do i have outlaw weps? prob not
random stirrup
I think if u can play outlaw and have it prepped it's an outlaw boss
it looked like sub might be good for the shields
cinder relic
Who else is taking mythic agi weapons anymore Lolol
random stirrup
seems to be the only real damage check
karmic stag
na rogues have no healthcare and work 80 hours a week
Me out of energy coming home to play a spec that also has energy issues. My immersion!
stable nest
my rl would have shot me if i crafted a sword
cinder relic
Ya
cinder relic
Sample size + noobs + nobody is crafting a sword
Most good rogue players aren't playing outlaw yk
vivid vessel
when you look ranking its not as bad
random stirrup
outlaw will be miserable on low target cleave with how much you need to press feint btw
vivid vessel
im sure i can just top assa noobs
random stirrup
good luck having energy
vivid vessel
im not gonna press feint
cinder relic
Just gear more haste
cinder relic
Unironically
stable nest
wait im back
vivid vessel
yes
stable nest
outlaw time
vivid vessel
i know
stable nest
vivid vessel
i simmed 2 target
random stirrup
our comms are just "personal" every 15s
severe charm
doesn't 3 pi invalidate the parse
quiet ore
novel isle
marksman gameplay looks riveting
wonder why I swapped to rouge
tiny dagger
where yall getting all this damn haste from
vivid vessel
its whatever
tiny dagger
dafock
vivid vessel
lil feint here and there
gaunt phoenix
most haste is from jewelry
vivid vessel
i get my haste from being better
gaunt phoenix
wtf
cinder relic
Jewelry and flask mainly
vivid vessel
searing radiance and divine storm i think are bad too
doesnt work on the other things i think
sterile dune
THING IS haste just falls off a bit
random stirrup
when i checked yesterday feint worked on every single mechanic
except the hammers on the ground
sterile dune
assa dont fall off with secondary stats
since most of their secondary stats pretty goated
even msTery aint bad
random stirrup
it was scuffed heroic logs but that's how it seemed
sterile dune
they got soft caps but for them crit gives them lots of value
u get extra cp etc
for outlaw its not as valuable
so haste and crit can get pretty even for outlaw
karmic stag
What if we could lower our GCD further with haste. Would that make haste less dead at the current threshold?
I mean .8 is nice, but what if .5
karmic stag
What if my ping is the only thing stopping me from being good
sterile dune
I think that would make only
giga tryhards
speedrunning carpal tunnel syndrome
be able to play outlaw
and it would be hard to balance
u would get nerfs in return
i wish our mastery was stronger ngl
for single target
cinder relic
Why, who cares what stat we use lol
sterile dune
nobody, ilvl is king honestly
vivid vessel
maybe not divine storm
you are right
karmic stag
Imagine they just find a way to make versa king for Outlaw. “Survivability and damage complaints? Vers now has 3x value on Outlaw”
cinder relic
Well vers used to be the best for years
vivid vessel
i mean i cant press feint that much so
cinder relic
Only this expac did crit gain a lot of value
vivid vessel
will have to do
cinder relic
We will stack vers soon enough though with higher stat values every tier
random stirrup
doesnt work on the other things i think
storm, infusion, execution, toll, avengers shield all do count, searing radiance doesn't actually work from what I can tell
but either way its prob feint on cd
vivid vessel
light infusion is perma ticking tho so
gaunt phoenix
discord cropping is never not entertaining
vivid vessel
the only things that seems important to me is sacred toll
random stirrup
prob worth feinting during radiance even if it doesnt work for example if you can afford the charge
vivid vessel
and divine sotrm, but you might be able to just step out one gcd
for divine storm
it doesnt hit ranges
its 8 yard range
vivid vessel
prob worth feinting during radiance even if it doesnt work for example if you ca...
dont think so bud
fuck you
mighty pivot
what if they added float back but with a 50% damage done penalty
random stirrup
see prior comment about livelord gameplay
karmic stag
Avoidance mainstat. So concerned about pressing feint that we missed the obvious
Just live in the AoE
indigo token
the worst part about outlaw now is how it feels to use RTB
when you have double trouble
hit AR
and you got the buff
you roll again and you get double trouble
it feels awful
vivid vessel
there is no cast bar
for divine storm
@random stirrup
and it only hit melees
thats kinda funny no
random stirrup
surely blizzard timers are good and accurate
random stirrup
oh
random stirrup
i see
karmic stag
Melee tax alive and well
random stirrup
well to be fair this raid tier is very heavily melee favoured
vivid vessel
ye true
random stirrup
so its good that melees take more damage for 0 reason
vivid vessel
at 15s is the first
can see clickz and the paldin go down in hp
only melee in raid
dont even know what boss does the ability
ah its lightblood guy
vivid vessel
viserio
ye i know
im sayig in game
if its devastating
why is there no cast bar
or timer in game
xd?
mighty pivot
it's devastating for melee attendance
random stirrup
why need bar for melee mechanic when u play 0 melee
?
just clutter on screen for your 5 hunters
waxen scarab
can u blind the adds in saladbar?
vivid vessel
its fien im ready
actually i do wonder if i can optimise feint to get both everytime
i cant
feint is too short
random stirrup
oab feint/cloak timers 
vivid vessel
nuh uh
random stirrup
i was removed from raid group after dragons, logged into my level 70 hunter and invited back into raid
vivid vessel
funny i dont think i can get more haste than the gear i have on rn
random stirrup
thoughts?
indigo token
gaunt phoenix
is that u
frank hamlet
hi guys, quick q. is 25% haste imperative?
gaunt phoenix
25% no
21-23% yes
you do need to approach this haste but it's not exact
Or you dont have energy
frank hamlet
okay ty
worldly shale
wintry leaf
Outlaw needs love, imo a good defensive
balmy topaz
imma be outlaw not pressing feint
Chat he’s not wrong
Defensives are a waste of energy in raid
Just leech more
left jay
random stirrup
@vivid vessel could you tell if toll has a delay or the viserio cds are the exact instance the damage occurs
trying to set up feint timers 
random stirrup
yeah but i cba paying attention
vivid vessel
seems like 0 delay
random stirrup
i will make a script
vivid vessel
on the dot
viserio still doesnt know you have 2 charges of feint so
bit annoyed at atht
random stirrup
the soak also doesnt seem to have a minimum player number
prob worth saving cloak to do it solo?
idk
vivid vessel
its on healer
random stirrup
ah
vivid vessel
you are going to kill healer
random stirrup
feint op
vivid vessel
isnt priest hting 80% or smth
random stirrup
isnt priest hting 80% or smth
im talking about the cheat death 
he just goes ghost mode
vivid vessel
oh
strong cargo
Hello, quick question about prep min-max, I see a lot of outlaw logs using it with delay, I thought it was best to use right when bte/br/ADR were on cd, is it to reset everything after the 2nd blade rush ? in that case should we send another blade rush or do we min-max with waiting for the 4p buff to go off ?
random stirrup
he walks it off its ok
frail veldt
imma be outlaw not pressing feint
I took it off my bars
random stirrup
1s too much
in poptart's vod the first soak hits at 1:30.3 and the avenger's shield hits around 1:36.2
doable with 6s feint thoughts?
vivid vessel
no
fathom bramble
prob worth saving cloak to do it solo?
It also pierces immunities
random stirrup
well that would certainly make it difficult
keen belfry
play better ryldd
river maple
is preparation in m+ mainly for high keys?
gaunt phoenix
Yes
frail veldt
whats the dslice loss of running prep over sd
random stirrup
no <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
semi precise feint timings look good
you cant get storm but there's a lot of overlaps of shield into toll 4-5s later
gaunt phoenix
whats the dslice loss of running prep over sd
no loss
0.3% gain or w.e
it's effectively the same "result"
so
you decide if prep is worth it
radiant wyvern
surely its value in keys if it ends up lining with giga pulls that need to be nuked or bosses
gaunt phoenix
yea, esp. if you lust the first pull or smth
strong cargo
In raid I see outlaw logs using prep with delay, I thought it was best to use right when bte/br/ADR were on cd, do we wait for ADR buff to fall off ? Or maybe it's better to reset everything after the 2nd blade rush ?
gaunt phoenix
as far as i'm aware you should use it for an immediate BtE again
but it's a bit awkward for the second AR and supercharger
vivid vessel
you cant get storm but there's a lot of overlaps of shield into toll 4-5s later
what is shield
formal pawn
Engineering gotta be the worst profession
vivid vessel
@gaunt phoenix thoughts on the haste
gaunt phoenix
fast
vivid vessel
im gonna have a lot of energy on these 2 target bosses cuh
(actually sims better on 2 t)
kinda crazy
polar kelp
Man I get sad on tree boss trash pull in academy. Here's me maxing out at 300k watching a hunter pull 500k consistent cause we can only hit freakin 8 people
I know it doesn't matter....but the meterrrrr
unique fulcrum
<@921608341048930304> thoughts on the haste
using haste flask?
vivid vessel
yuh
on pure 2t it even want me to play flickering
imma do that on paladin
on dragons imma keep it to just hte haste
will see hwat happens
unique fulcrum
whats flickering again
polar kelp
The choice node where your sinister strike procs give you energy back and do more dps...compared to 3% vers
unique fulcrum
The choice node where your sinister strike procs give you energy back and do mor...
ohhh, i kinda like it more than 3% vers
polar kelp
The vers sims slightly higher once you hit the 25% haste I'm pretty sure
Also you get some DR out of it
unique fulcrum
yee but its so plain and boring
polar kelp
Numbers be numbers
placid ocean
Man I get sad on tree boss trash pull in academy. Here's me maxing out at 300k w...
MM hunter is also capped at 8
frail veldt
as far as i'm aware you should use it for an immediate BtE again
but it's a bit...
does the "hold bte if adr cd < 30s" apply if you prep and you currently have adr up?
or does having the adr buff present overwrite that rule
gaunt phoenix
you should bte during adr
frail veldt
I figured
sometimes if I get resets or it comes up again from cdr at the end of my first adr ill hold
like for 2s
so I can supercharge it on my second one
but I think thats feelscraft ig
fickle relic
can i even get a dagger from m+ while playing outlaw?
keen belfry
Learn the way of using prep dynamically in ar
unique fulcrum
can i even get a dagger from m+ while playing outlaw?
yes
gaunt phoenix
you have to lootspec sin/sub
unique fulcrum
pit and nexus
keen belfry
can i even get a dagger from m+ while playing outlaw?
Set fart spec as sub/sin
Loot*
unique fulcrum
ohhh
gaunt phoenix
wang?
gaunt phoenix
how did you freudian slip that into fart
keen belfry
Well I was gonna do toot spec
balmy topaz
gaunt phoenix
i see
keen belfry
But fart is a better word
unique fulcrum
whats the BR item called?
gaunt phoenix
there is no BR item
frail veldt
what does br item mean
unique fulcrum
combat ress
keen belfry
neymar?
gaunt phoenix
battle rez
unique fulcrum
yee
frail veldt
is there not one this season?
keen belfry
the old cables work
keen belfry
im not sure if its the engi cables or basic cables
gaunt phoenix
you can prep during the first AR, bte immediately, and then your second AR you simply dont use it until the next bte is ready
keen belfry
but tww cables work rn
gaunt phoenix
it's fine at least on the sim side
keen belfry
oo i dont mind that
keen belfry
It seems like most optimizakskfosns around holding BTE slightly for AR seems good
Cuz zero in?
keen belfry
there is the thing where if u first roll a 3+ buff u just can prep after AR ends and its usually bis prep time usually
unique fulcrum
i really hope we are getting more changes other than the ace thing
keen belfry
10 cps is 60% ace
i like this
vivid vessel
zac how many pulls for dragons
20
wintry phoenix
Just out of curiosity but which talents would one drop to pick audacity and HO?
keen belfry
isnt it sick that arcane mages basically just blow up the minute a mythic boss is pulled?
keen belfry
we r squishy
wintry solar
who looks at a graph like that
keen belfry
ARCANE mage literally goes boom boom
gaunt phoenix
game is bigdge
radiant wyvern
lots of mfs came back for midnight i think
gaunt phoenix
A few updates
-
The consensus on
Deadly Pursuit has shifted since launch. Originally it was kind of like "it's not great, but it could impact dps in some way, so we might as well take it" but really the impact of the talent is so minimal that people would rather take the extra stamina instead, which is fine. -
Small rotation optimization: you might have been doing it already. That is if both
Loaded Dice is active and 
KIR is ready, then you can reroll a currently active stage 2 RTB before you KIR. Expected gain: ~0.5% -
As you may have noticed, there is a travel time to the
Gravedigger reset, and it's obvious on the large raid bosses. This means you pretty much have to track the Palmed Bullets stack so you can see when you are at 6 and react to the upcoming reset. -
There's some confusion about how to handle the opening
Preparation while also delaying 
BtE for 
Supercharger:
The opening Prep should be used while the first AR is still active, and you continue to press BtE during AR. Your second AR should not be used until the first AR expires, and it can then be held until BtE is available, though it's really not a big deal to just send that second AR regardless of BtE.
PTR changes
- In 12.0.5 they are changing
Ace to be a (3%/6%) chance to refund 4 cps. - They are also bringing back AoE blind.
- They are adjusting
Trickster's Cloud Cover to apply on AR and amplify Fazed. No idea if it's any good yet.
The Ace thing is a nerf at 1 point, but a ~1.5% buff at 2 points compared to the current live build. We will use 2 Ace, and the AoE build will remove Sleight for it.
Ace change is still awkward as it most likely puts you at 5cps after a reset. We don't like to BtE at 5cps so if Ace puts you at 5 then you have to build between resets.
Fatebound PTR ST | Fatebound PTR AoE
Common feedback areas
- Ace could be 1 point for +5cps refund. The people want full Ace again!
- Energy generation could be smoothed out more.
Fatal Flourish being a 25% chance means you can get RNG screwed even when playing well. We get comments about this every day. 
Deft costing extra energy doesn't feel great at 2-3 targets. - Trickster could have a talent that improves
Killing Spree, such as making it faster and dealing full aoe damage. No one likes pressing KS during Adrenaline Rush, no one likes the random targeting. This is the final awkward thing about Trickster. 
Blade Flurry tuning -- it's disappointing that Outlaw is so bad at low target cleave, like Vanguard. That used to be Outlaw's thing, so not sure the current BF is cutting it. Some ideas that have been thrown around: add an effect where X% of BF damage is replicated onto the main target? Bring back Precise Cuts, thought not as a choice between ST talents?- BtE could generate
SnD which makes our opener less awkward.
grave rose
made a luxthos esque ui in better cooldown manager if anyone wants it
sacred rune
40 seconds
try adad
gaunt phoenix
lol
wintry solar
whats the dps loss for KSing out of adr
tiny dagger
made a luxthos esque ui in better cooldown manager if anyone wants it
ill take it
gaunt phoenix
whats the dps loss for KSing out of adr
like do not KS at all during AR?
soft abyss
Is preping after a second bte cast worse? or kinda the same? Like waiting 10 sec to reset the bte cd and then go prep.
gaunt phoenix
hm
gaunt phoenix
Is preping after a second bte cast worse? or kinda the same? Like waiting 10 sec...
i would guess it's the same
wintry solar
sometimes feelycraft works???
polar kelp
Yea I've been waiting on prep too, to get that final BR in on first AR
hardy wigeon
made a luxthos esque ui in better cooldown manager if anyone wants it
drop it king
next wedge
what is our dps gain with 2 set and 4 set?
gaunt phoenix
like 1.5% -> 3%
next wedge
w thanks
keen belfry
good pin solo
atomic fern
Anyone have a good addon that'll let me know when to roll my bones? RIP Weakauras
gaunt phoenix
thwank
next wedge
if its a 1 you reroll
gaunt phoenix
unfortunately you just kind of have to see the icons through the cdm
purple bad, rest good
smoky nova
I remember last time I played outlaw there was a roll the bones and a ambush build. Is the ambush build so bad that it's gone now?
wintry solar
I'd hate to drop tight spender
inland cairn
# A few updates
1. The consensus on <:ks:1102938554545471580> **Deadly Pursuit*...
pulling vorasius rn and was wondering why my bte resets were laggy 
cinder relic
ambush buiuld isnt that bad but its not really a "build" in the same way it used to be
smoky nova
Damn, oh well. I think during that vampire shadowlands raid it was closer to keep it rolling and that wasn't bad. Guess I'll try it
cinder relic
Like there isn't a large destinction between a "KiR" and a "HO" build
olive star
HO my favorite iteration of outlaw 
wintry solar
glad the HO vs KiR argument died tho
smoky nova
Yeah that was super fun
vivid vessel
zac how many pulls for dragons
we did 16
keen belfry
HO my favorite iteration of outlaw <:CAUGHT:1250659892465762345>
this is why u dont have the belt
sturdy crow
pulling vorasius rn and was wondering why my bte resets were laggy <:derpsmile:1...
Saaaaame
keen belfry
imagine this version of law with better energy, better ace, better BF and small lil rtb change with kir
banger
keen belfry
something like that
i think KIRing 2 buffs is quite criminal
but needed to function
gaunt phoenix
i like it
hollow tartan
Definitely on my outlaw wishlist
keen belfry
y u like kir 2buff?
gaunt phoenix
the alternative is kir 3 buff
keen belfry
the only part i like is that it allows us to function
keen belfry
well yes i dont hate the rule, its good rule
i hate the gameplay of it
like how bout just pressing KIR extends buff duration like normal but +1s the buff
u kir a 2 buff = extended 3
etc
gaunt phoenix
i fear if kir bumped your roll you might hold for 3 since 3 > 4 is so much stronger than 2 > 3
keen belfry
i do agree i think +1 to your rolls would be OP
so i like the new awang cook as of 3/30
radiant wyvern
less duration added if it gets +1ed
gaunt phoenix
!def
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <
keen belfry
i dont see how u could play around waiting for 3 buff as hypothetical kir rework
u basically press on cd and either get 3 or 4
without op inbetween
grave rose
# A few updates
1. The consensus on <:ks:1102938554545471580> **Deadly Pursuit*...
for feedback I might add having BTE activate SND
gaunt phoenix
true
grave rose
and buff HO
grave rose
haha
keen belfry
does HO even function without vanish/subterfuge gaming
gaunt phoenix
yes
gaunt phoenix
ambush could be make good
if audacity made ambush cheaper it might immediately win
timid portal
ez dagger oh
gaunt phoenix
timid portal
placid ocean
Hunters rolling on our daggers is such a feelsbad now
timid portal
he changed from mm hunter to survi yesterday
keen belfry
if audacity made ambush cheaper it might immediately win
what would a build look like
nokir?
gaunt phoenix
uhhhh
placid ocean
They already have zero competition on bows. Now they're trying to steal our daggers too
fast fossil
How long does it take to get al lthe upgrades for the crucible trink
keen belfry
actual fart build
wintry solar
then we'd have to get imp ambush >.>
hollow tartan
I was gonna say
keen belfry
i think ambush would have to not only be free, but restore energy then
xd
ace, fth, and summarrlaity discpatchg need to be 1 point
gaunt phoenix
the HO capstone would just have to be much stronger
blissful idol
if i haven't done the ?? delve at all since launch can i still do it and get mythic crests that don't count towards cap?
fossil lintel
Fth being a 2 pointer after last gate that is absolutely required for the spec to function in any capacity is basically a crime
lucid sparrow
X
outer meteor
how big of a dps loss is taking combat stamina over deadly pursuit?
getting to a key level where im feeling lil scared
timid portal
how big of a dps loss is taking combat stamina over deadly pursuit?
probably no dps loss
vivid vessel
how big of a dps loss is taking combat stamina over deadly pursuit?
none
gaunt phoenix
nothing
timid portal
its bait
outer meteor
okayge
keen belfry
remember tww class design
wintry solar
I'd rather not
unborn ferry
member combat rogue
wintry solar
I'd also rather
craggy barn
oof
vivid vessel
28% haste
craggy barn
28 with flask?
gaunt phoenix
deft?
vivid vessel
yes
gaunt phoenix
nice
vivid vessel
its wortth
sims like 3% i think in 2 t
no choice
but ye idk
im out of eenrgy in 1 min
fight is 8 min
so
normal aurora
The extra energy cost that deft has while only giving 2-3 CP feels really bad when using on CD
grave rose
easy to see procs
icy cedar
Regarding the feedback in the sticky - is that directed to any Blizz lurking around here? Is there still a dev like Reelz that lurks here?
Because if there is a dev(s) lurking here, just give me back a BF toggle!
winged zinc
wait I am confused I just checked some rogue guides, do I wanna have a dagger in my offhand or does that not matter?
narrow pasture
you do
mystic berry
Regarding the feedback in the sticky - is that directed to any Blizz lurking aro...
Its like praying
you gotta have faith
wintry phoenix
The new rogue dev is secretly a regular and he just shitposts instead of fixing things
grave rose
is Realz no longer on rogue?
mystic berry
is Realz no longer on rogue?
On law for sure not
gaunt phoenix
Regarding the feedback in the sticky - is that directed to any Blizz lurking aro...
someone must read my shit cuz bugs i pinned get fixed
gaunt phoenix
is Realz no longer on rogue?
He's not on outlaw
mystic berry
The new rogue dev is secretly a regular and he just shitposts instead of fixing ...
We just have to find who in here never dooms
That one person is probably the dev
wintry phoenix
It's guy
gaunt phoenix
They've been really on top of bugs
frail veldt
someone must read my shit cuz bugs i pinned get fixed
did they fix SC thing with bte?
icy cedar
they should just copypaste BFA outlaw tbh
take me bacckk
you know what would be a fun talent - Gambling Addiction - you randomly cast RTB constantly, and you have to press KiR when you randomly get a good roll
grave rose
you know what would be a fun talent - Gambling Addiction - you randomly cast RTB...
if you miss you lose half your gold and hour house
icy cedar
minigame to clear goons out of your player housing
grave rose
you get a buff "gonna win big next time" +100% to losing your parents house
gaunt phoenix
did they fix SC thing with bte?
The first one yes
The new one i need to investigate
icy cedar
or "Parley" - a buff you cast on one of your raid members, if their next hit is a crit, you get a max RTB, if they don't crit, your weapon breaks
grave rose
or "Parley" - a buff you cast on one of your raid members, if their next hit is ...
You just lose your pants
thorny mural
just getting back to wow since df, would anyone mind showing me their hud? all my auras are toast obv so i need ideas
icy cedar
and then TMW on the side there for BTE, so i notice it better
thorny mural
thank you guys 
icy cedar
TMW is suddenly goated for the ability to stick icons in random spots again with weakauras gone
grave rose
I try to keep my shit as basic as possible to avoid patch blowouts
elvui did that to me once, never used it again
frigid olive
Any tips on not being energy starved for bosses in M+? I always have no thistle tea charges left.
my haste is 22%
should i just stack more haste?
grave rose
we want 25% from gear correct?
narrow pasture
yes
well, gear + consumes
weapon oils give 32 for free, as youre always running them
fathom bramble
gear + consumes+ alacrity
balmy topaz
Alacrity counts towards your stat btw
It’s not like how it was and stacked in combat
fathom bramble
yeah it just shows on your sheet now
fathom bramble
hi
balmy topaz
Are you finished raiding for the week
keen belfry
ryu!!!
inland acorn
Any tips for dpsing chimaerus Lok ? Feel like as melee I can't touch adds because of debuff 
inland acorn
fathom bramble
yeah you kill your spirit realm adds and then go boss
balmy topaz
we only raid mythic friday/sat
Cracked raid times
fathom bramble
and never help with physical adds until the spirit realm is back up
which basically means never hitting them unless the big add is dying particularly slowly
it's just too dangerous to have melee running around when people are in both realms
balmy topaz
Wait lol I have a clip for you
fathom bramble
and since our damage is entirely unnecessary you can definitely afford to have melee just stand on boss
balmy topaz
I was going to get rank 1 on chim
inland acorn
Ye, I sometimes switch to big add when other group is out
inland acorn
If it's dying slowly
fathom bramble
our tank did the same thing lol
inland acorn
LMAO
desert tendon
@balmy topaz big noob spotted
fathom bramble
oh it was a default 100th because it was the first public logged outlaw kill
I swear damage just doesn't matter on any of these early bosses
do the mechanics somewhat well and they just die anyway
and then you get to paladins and it is a literally impossible(at current gear levels) dps check without class stacking
vivid vessel
im starting to like paladin lok ..
feels like you need ultra instinct to play it perfect
its cool
tender breach
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
glass grail
What do we think the odds (heh) are of a big change to or removal of RtB. It is not a button that feels good to press. It feels like such miserable busy work that needs to be micromanaged for not enough benefit
cinder relic
0%
glass grail
😭
cinder relic
"Miserable busy work" and it's pressing a maintenance buff every 30 seconds that gives you infinite resources
lime lake
Miserable busy work is pretty close to misery business
And thats a goated song
So it must be good
wintry solar
"Miserable busy work" and it's pressing a maintenance buff every 30 seconds that...
Can't have shit these days fr
cinder relic
Literally
wintry solar
"Gimme an outlaw without RtB and 100% proc chances"
glass grail
I mean we hit the button and hope it gives us those resources. Just feels bad to micromanage
silk stirrup
Remove restless blades IMO
Too much work to spend combo points
Not even a good reward
frail veldt
What do we think the odds (heh) are of a big change to or removal of RtB. It is ...
I think the better thing would to make the buffs actually play different in a fun way
right now you just do everything you can to not get stage 1
glass grail
That's what I mean
frail veldt
and everything else is ignored
thats an issue with the buffs
not the ability
jackpot is a very boring stage 4
glass grail
We need 2-4 to feel functional as a class
frail veldt
stage 1 is criminally bad yeah
glass grail
So it feels bad to have a random chance of misery
frail veldt
problem is since the new rtb system is "stacking" in that you get all the buffs below you
theyve kinda made it difficult to design the stages to feel different but have similar throughput
so you inherently get a boring result
it is what it is
at this point they kinda just need to keep rogue designed such that if you play well you never get stage 1 for more than 5-10 seconds
glass grail
Yeah that's exactly it, I'm mostly hitting the button to prevent a bad result as opposed to feeling powerful like when I hit AR
Not that it needs to feel like AR
But I want to be excited to hit my buttons
I was pretty bummed when they made RtB a centerpiece of the spec.
stuck sparrow
What do we think the odds (heh) are of a big change to or removal of RtB. It is ...
rtb is kind of what makes outlaw a spec
and not just combat with a gun
rtb hasnt really been that massive since SL honestly
people would be complaining about rolls then never getting a double hit on sinister
"it must be the bad rolls"
cinder relic
RTB has been a centerpiece of the spec for over 10 years at this point
glass grail
I played the most in Dragonflight and really enjoyed the HO specs, and dabbled in RtB, but liked that it was a spec option and not a mandatory part
stuck sparrow
RTB has been a centerpiece of the spec for over 10 years at this point
me when i hit sinister strike 4x in a row without a proc
glass mortar
HO still used Rtb tho
stuck sparrow
and contemplate disconnecting my router
cinder relic
RTB has always been a mandatory part of the spec, wdym
There has been a singular patch in wow history where you didn't go RTB on this spec
IT has always been the central focus of the spec
glass grail
Maybe I'm misremembering then
cinder relic
couldnt you choose to play snd instead of rtb in legion
That was the singular patch where it was relevant yes
You went it because auto attacks triggered the argus trinkets
glass grail
I just never felt as bad hitting RtB back then as I do now I guess if that's the case. It wasn't as notably feels bad
glass mortar
i mean 90% of the time u hit RtB on live u r getting a good outcome
HO certainly still felt bad with a 1 buff roll back then
fathom bramble
RTB has like a completely different set of problems from what it use to
frail veldt
90% you hit rtb on live it just keeps you at the same baseline lol
I feel like rtbs lowroll feels worse than rtbs highroll feels good
fathom bramble
now it's another feedback loop where you must play ocrrectly or fall to 1 buff and rely on rng to escape
cinder relic
RTB is an ability that has always had failstates
glass mortar
oh for sure
cinder relic
It's never going to feel perfect
glass mortar
u barely notice jackpot in new outlaw ur gameplay basically peaks at 2 buff
and 1 buff feels just as awful as it did last expac and df and yada yada
cinder relic
3 buff is a big deal different
glass mortar
what r u gunna do
fathom bramble
some very minor tweaking to loaded dice could be good
glass grail
3 buff feels good
2 buff feels like it's what the class should be baseline
1 buff I cri
glass mortar
1 buff is death
cinder relic
Thank god we have 2 buff 90+ of the time
glass mortar
i will admit its impressive they managed to get us all excited for the elimination of 1 buff feeling awful when they made it Xbones
yet they managed to take one of the best feeling buffs and make it not enough for the spec to play. i guess the intention is always for 1 buff to feel like punishment tho
glass grail
And I'm not gonna pretend I'm the best and could play better. I definitely could do more getting good with the when I hit the button
stuck sparrow
i mean havent they added way more rng protection
against single buff
compard to old rtb
glass mortar
falling apart is worse also
when crackshot fell apart it was as awful but when u got back in the loop it was self sustaining
frail veldt
RTB is an ability that has always had failstates
doesnt need to though I kinda always wished they would make the "worst" roll not too awful and make the rolls more about variety than added power level
vivid vessel
way longer also
cinder relic
doesnt need to though I kinda always wished they would make the "worst" roll not...
RTB necessarily has to have fail states
glass mortar
if u fall out of the "loop" on live, u burn all ur tea charges then never recover ur energy fully for the rest of the dungeon
frail veldt
like if each roll changed your rotational priority instead of just slapping a 10% crit chance
glass mortar
frail veldt
RTB necessarily has to have fail states
no not necessarily
it can be a variety button
copper radish
Is there a mount at 3k io this season or nah
frail veldt
not a power level button
fathom bramble
doesnt need to though I kinda always wished they would make the "worst" roll not...
stage 1 and 2 should be swapped with some of the power of 1(now 2) moved to baseline imo
cinder relic
"A variety button" is the same thing
frail veldt
not if all the varieties do the same damage
fathom bramble
having a failstate is fine and expected, but I think it could afford to be a bit less harsh
cinder relic
1 "variety of rotation" will be numerically stronger
frail veldt
and just change how you play
keen belfry
stage 1 and 2 should be swapped with some of the power of 1(now 2) moved to base...
amhm
glass mortar
if RtB stages were just numerical power that would be amazing
cinder relic
How do u change the rotation without changint the power level what
fathom bramble
you would have to rework rtb(again) and perfectly balance multiple buffs
which blizzard has shown themselves to be mostly incapable of doing
frail veldt
I mean im not saying it needs to be within 0.5%
for every roll
but a 10% crit chance as jackpot is like the opposite end of the spectrum
thats just baking in variance to the spec arbitrarily without even making it feel different
but I think they want rtb to not influence rotation
for the philosophy of reducing complexity
so its most likely on purpose
I just disagree with the goal
final pagoda
Is the current issue of outlaw about rtb?
cinder relic
RTB has rarely been about changing the rotation
final pagoda
not sure, it's not perfect but also not terrible
cinder relic
No the issue with current outlaw is energy, and being undertuned
tender breach
is a crit haste dagger good for second craft?
cinder relic
Not really unless ur expecting to play other specs
final pagoda
I think rtb changing rotational priorities increases difficulty exponentially
frigid olive
Is the current issue of outlaw about rtb?
I'd say its burst, i've noticed other specs can burst much better.
final pagoda
It has never been
glass mortar
^
tender breach
what do u propose @cinder relic instead?
frigid olive
yeah but its big gap
glass mortar
well yes if a spec is a burst spec and another isnt, that means there will be a big gap
stuck sparrow
its not a burst spec by design
cinder relic
what do u propose <@96834520417828864> instead?
boots or smthing
final pagoda
No I like it and I believe it has its own utility in not being burst spec
glass mortar
because thats sorta the definition of what burst is
stuck sparrow
closest thing this spec has to burst
is when a generic use trinket that does damage
is good
glass grail
Honestly I like outlaw as it plays except for managing RtB. Like I wish it was just tacked onto a finisher instead of being it's own button
final pagoda
Then u wanna remove another button?
cinder relic
How would that work when u have to reroll though
final pagoda
God damn u guys don't like pressing things
unkempt iris
Honestly I like outlaw as it plays except for managing RtB. Like I wish it was j...
it should just be jackpots all the time imo
placid ocean
Honestly I like outlaw as it plays except for managing RtB. Like I wish it was j...
Sounds like you just want to play sub to me.
final pagoda
They should make outlaw 10x more complex but if u do everything well u do 10x dps
High skill high reward
fathom bramble
RTB is so far from our actual problem rn idk
final pagoda
There are already only 10 people playing this spec, it wouldn't matter
fathom bramble
it could be adjusted slightly to help slightly, but really we just need more baseline energy generation
glass grail
How would that work when u have to reroll though
What if it just upgraded the buff to the next level when you hit the finisher. But it still expired or reset after 30 seconds
fathom bramble
the main reason 1buff feels so bad is becasue we are on the edge of running out of energy at all times
unkempt iris
RTB is so far from our actual problem rn idk
i think BtE reset chance is too low and opportunity feels super wonky too at times, might just be my luck
fathom bramble
and fucking up even slightly throws you off that cliff
frigid olive
lvl 1 rtb is just so bad though, 2 is massive jump. When I can get 3 a few times in a row i can usually top the meters
glass mortar
i assume its intended design that 1 is ass
1 is supposed to be u getting punished for falling out of ur loaded dice loop or getting bad rng
vivid vessel
the main reason 1buff feels so bad is becasue we are on the edge of running out ...
i run out of energy under jackpot ..
final pagoda
Anyone knows the avg uptime in sim for the 1buff? I feel I only have significant uptime on 1buff when I make mistakes
glass mortar
should not be very high
fathom bramble
i run out of energy under jackpot ..
yeah that can happen too especially in keys
fathom bramble
but the point is that 2buff is the main thing keeping you afloat
placid ocean
Anyone knows the avg uptime in sim for the 1buff? I feel I only have significant...
Last Sim I did, it was like 1-2% uptime
fathom bramble
I mean technically I guess
but 1buff is just the baseline power your character always has
2buff is when it is actually a bonus
final pagoda
i mena once again the only issue is that outlaw should have infinite enrgy
Can someone force a sim where you have infinite energy and see how much DPS gain we would have?
fathom bramble
1buff can creep in on long fights and ones with forced downtime much more easily than ti does in the sim as well
it's a very annoying problem since it's not that extreme
until it is
you can go an entire keystone without ever getting 1buff pretty easily, but then get a random fight where nothing goes right and you do 0 damage
glass mortar
and drain all the tea charges u had and ensure u never have more then 1 again for the rest of the key
😄
stuck sparrow
has midnight falls been tested yet
glass mortar
its great when u have a bad experience 5 minutes before the last boss then get to it and u have 0 tea charges still off the back of that dead/bad rng and gotta pray to blizzard u dont have downtime
stuck sparrow
or is it a "wait for liquid to do it" angle
glass grail
Would giving tea a longer cd but affected by restless blades fix our energy issues?
glass mortar
uh
that would be worse then just reducing teas cd
all u do by adding it to RB is make its cd get more punished by any downtime
like if they wanted it to be on RB with a ~30s cd, it would be better for us to just have it as a 30s cd
we dont really need things that are more punished by downtime then we currently have
if anything downtime should benifit tea more then just regular cd cooling off
glass mortar
howd it go babe did u sip ur tea
keen belfry
and thats the tea sis ( ihad no energy)
glass mortar
unique fulcrum
is aug + outlaw good this season?
cinder relic
idt aug has good or bad targets much anymore but idrk
frail veldt
is aug + outlaw good this season?
Outlaw has weak cooldowns so is usually one of the weakest Aug partners
Aug still prefers 2 min classes afaik
unique fulcrum
honestly i dont even knwo what aug does exactly
cinder relic
Its just a dps spec atp
desert tendon
lows are way lower in midnight than tww
that s why you re at your all time lowest
noob
light kernel
do i reroll if i have lets say 15s stage 3 loaded dice active for 5s and new ar do i reroll and dump 10s of stage 3 and then ar or just ar and use those 10s of stage 3
unkempt smelt
stat balance is good or i need more haste?
fathom bramble
Aug still prefers 2 min classes afaik
breath doesn't have a consistent CD anymore
they can sometimes hold for basically anyones burst, but generally it's just being cast on CD
outer meteor
kinda good for no tier or?
frail veldt
they can sometimes hold for basically anyones burst, but generally it's just bei...
whats that average out to now?
fathom bramble
whats that average out to now?
not sure, aug I was playing with just said it depended on their cdr
fast fossil
I think it’s averaged out to a min for a while
copper radish
last boss of academy is so cheeks
frail veldt
I think it’s averaged out to a min for a while
Ah that would make sense why I was told 2 minute classes are good still
Thats crazy short
outer meteor
bro im stuck in a infinite loop
wait 40 min to get invited -> wipe on 1st pull because tank dies -> repeat
fickle relic
who the hell placed outlaw in b tier for m+? we should be in a tier at least
i'm top 1 overall damage almost in every dung
vivid vessel
you gotta keep it in the circle
he will go to bed and raid shinding
shinding will go to bed and raid casual
casual will go to bed and raid me
glass mortar
vivid vessel
and we just increase rogue viewership
glass mortar
perma loop of outlaw content
vivid vessel
to infinity
glass mortar
!!!
slim hare
lest go
timid idol
casual will go to bed and raid me
so there was talk of puzzle box in his chat
now im thinking
is there LITERALLY any other spec with a mastery as bad as us
im like 99.99% sure mastery was our worst stat since existed in legion no?
every single season
vivid vessel
what happen..
i cant see you
you have 1 viewer
and its yourself
how am i supposed to find you
i scroll down till i find first rogue
gg
keen belfry
you have 1 viewer
no taste
we all lose our ataste
viewers got covid the wy they have no taste
timid idol
Last place but not like. Horrendous
but it has NEVER even been 3rd no?
ive never seen that on any spec lol
glass mortar
cant even escape her in my delves.....
vivid vessel
brooo
sour cedar
been reading the latest pinned comment and specifically the Blade Flurry feedback, do people really not want to uncap/soft cap Blade Flurry?
the later a season runs and the bigger pulls you get in dungeons the more we fall off
it bothers me that we used to be the cleave class and now groups do big pulls and our damage is hard capped vs classes whose damage just balloons the bigger the pull
like we were never the big burst single target kings and it's always a marathon and not a sprint but we used to be good at cleave to balance out our lack of single target
have I missed something on this?
I agree the current 2 target cleave feels awful and should get looked at but are people actually cool with us being target capped?
apologies for the mini-wall of text
buoyant cosmos
0.2c I think they've always been afraid to uncap blade flurry so people don't expect it to be an option? Suggesting something reasonable and more inline with what has been available in the past sounds like an easier sell.
vivid vessel
been reading the latest pinned comment and specifically the Blade Flurry feedbac...
yes but it has been talked about for years and never acted on
at this point i would rather bf have some sort of smart targetting
so it kills high raw hp mobs first
you could think of it like
you are on first pull academy
bf would go on the 4 big add
instead of on random smallies
it would be quite valuable i think
even target capped
buoyant stratus
Id like it if bladeflurry had some sort of feature where it does a % more damage if its below 8 targets ...
Precision strikes or something
vivid vessel
nice idea bro ..
flint pivot
bf would go on the 4 big add
I like that idea
light falcon
I I am m+ only, do i still craft ring?
sour cedar
I'd take any improvements tbh, bringing capped target dps, no prio, no burst, no buff, no bloodlust, no combat res feels pretty bad