Probably this;
#outlaw
prisma lantern
mellow thicket
Yo WTF
mellow thicket
Maybe percentage of players playing is a metric for buffs as well?
tropic zephyr
they buffed surv too like wtf
mellow thicket
A specific spec
eternal hound
Rogue would have to be meta and warrior would have to bed trash for that to happen
keen belfry
im just wondering what data they have
eternal hound
like in DF S2 when he played mage 
prisma lantern
Blizzard also kinda ok with specs being bad at certain content. I don't think they care about sin in M+.
Don't think it makes sense. But if you put your blizzard specs on.
buoyant stratus
I honestly think its a case of internal agreements meetings etc and that they know rogue in terms of ST damage is quite competitive with the other classes and they dont want to disrupt the race
I already expected a small tuning this week
mellow thicket
I mean if sub is good at m+ and pvp, then I guess 2 out of 3 content fields is better than 0 of 3.
tropic zephyr
the race is already disrupted by the release cycle anwyay, why stop there rofl
buoyant stratus
Next week probably better if the race finishes
buoyant stratus
the race is already disrupted by the release cycle anwyay, why stop there rofl
What part of this patch disrupts the race do you think
tropic zephyr
the last boss isn't even out
buoyant stratus
Oh i c what u mean
mellow thicket
My hope is that they are buffing the shit out of the last two bosses
tropic zephyr
my hope is that liquid kills it before echo logs in
lime lake
lmao
prisma lantern
Yeah. And TBH I don't think rogue is particularly bad if you take out the raid outliers.
They just don't want to deal with the crying from liquid and echo fanboys bitching about all the time putting into to splits to gear 8 MM hunter's.
mellow thicket
Yeah screw the RWF
tropic zephyr
Yeah screw the RWF
???
vague cape
they buffed surv too like wtf
To be fair with you SV needed aoe buffs, not st though
mellow thicket
Sarcasm, I needed to add an emoji
light kernel
are m+ trinkets a lot far from raid trinkets?
tropic zephyr
To be fair with you SV needed aoe buffs, not st though
don't seem like surv needed anything really, both M+ and raid stats puts it at the average
it was actually balanced
idk
vague cape
don't seem like surv needed anything really, both M+ and raid stats puts it at t...
Bro stop looking at the list for a second
And read the damn numbers
lime lake
no
vague cape
They’re all basically the same in the mid/low part
lime lake
tropic zephyr
"stop looking at the stats, look at my personal experience"
mellow thicket
I can’t enumerate sorry. Need tier lists
tropic zephyr
ok sorry i'll look at them closer
vague cape
My man
lime lake
i can only count to four
vague cape
The overall on all of them is super close
mellow thicket
Ooooh
lime lake
i can only count to four
vague cape
See
lime lake
i can only count to four
mellow thicket
The files
Are IN the computer
vague cape
It’s just that when you list things like that people sometimes ignore the actual difference between each spec
mellow thicket
i can only count to four
Such an amazing song
keen belfry
4 minutes by madonna and timbaland
vague cape
It looks like sv is a lot better than outlaw in m+, in reality they’re close
keen belfry
banger song
vague cape
Sv better st, outlaw better aoe
tropic zephyr
I see what you mean, tho the question remains: they look like they're doing better in all content than enh/law and others
so why surv
vague cape
so why surv
I wouldn’t draw conclusions from wcl mythic from sv
Sample size is extremely low / leak is getting pi when sv shouldn’t
mellow thicket
Because survival has been a dumpster fire since the end of shadowlands.
vague cape
Like litterally 2 logs on chimaerus M for example
Hard to draw real conclusions from that small a sample size
In my honest opinion outlaw needs raid buffs
They need to giga buff the talent that gives cdr during downtime
So it’s not autogrief in raid
native tundra
120k max 83-85k avg
That means the average player is playing wrong or undergeared
vague cape
That means the average player is playing wrong or undergeared
The thing is god knows how much due diligence is done regarding the data
Also we’re comparing dps of specs from entirely different runs
outer meteor
and we got zero pieces on raid again
native tundra
And feral top isn't even right im 265 and can do 130k+ on overall so some classes are probably just underlooked at
vague cape
Other than that not all dps is the same, boss dmg and funnel speed up a key more than shit like evenly spread aoe
eternal hound
Other than that not all dps is the same, boss dmg and funnel speed up a key more...
Which is why keys feel slow af with rets, at least they did in TWW
vague cape
Which is why keys feel slow af with rets, at least they did in TWW
Yeah ret is the classic example, doesn’t help that empyrean hammers would fall on random mobs too
native tundra
Other than that not all dps is the same, boss dmg and funnel speed up a key more...
Fr, if evenly spread aoe was all you needed 3 fury warriors would be best comp
eternal hound
I apparently know nothing about rets nowadays
vague cape
Fr, if evenly spread aoe was all you needed 3 fury warriors would be best comp
That or shit like destro id imagine
eternal hound
And apparently they're actually complicated
mellow thicket
I thought blizzard has their own internal metric system that we don’t see. Warcraftlogs are only an aggregate data pile from people that follow cookie cutter builds , found on FAQ, wowhead, veins, this is meta builds.
vague cape
Ayo they fixed it?
lime lake
the hammer falls and that enemy is just deleted
lime lake
yeah they merged them, and made it so any holy damage you do to enemies hit by the fr blast funnels into the es hit at the end
vague cape
I thought blizzard has their own internal metric system that we don’t see. Warcr...
Ngl I genuinely think their metrics are worse than what players judge from
native tundra
I thought blizzard has their own internal metric system that we don’t see. Warcr...
I play the cookie cutter feral build unless I feel like testing wildstalker to utilize 4 pc more
vague cape
Otherwise they’d have fixed degenerate shit like fire ignoring pyro, sin ignoring spending cp to spam ct
Clearly unintended gameplay - let’s slap an aura buff instead of buffing Caustic and nerfing CT so we can play like humans
mellow thicket
Ngl I genuinely think their metrics are worse than what players judge from
I mean, ion was quoted saying, a lot of wow players are sheeple that just parrot what the streamers say, and have no independent thought. Which isn’t far off for the bulk of players.
Including myself.
native tundra
Otherwise they’d have fixed degenerate shit like fire ignoring pyro, sin ignorin...
Feral gets primal wrath to every target in aoe, sin gets 2 targets per gcd after spending like 5 gcds lol
lime lake
the rip from primal wrath also lasts like half the time of rupture
and ct spreads both rupture and garrote
cloud prism
gaunt phoenix
Hunt embellishment
craggy barn
ah
long barn
How did outlaw not catch a buff and arms got another
dark ember
someone post the opener thing for keys quick please
ornate heathBOT
- Use
Adrenaline Rush to activate 
Loaded Dice. - As Trickster, use
KS to activate 
Disorienting Strikes. - Do NOT use
RTB before the key, you will lose it. - Use
SND during the bubble once the key starts.
nocturne saddle
How is outlaw doing in m+
eternal hound
Random question: The cap on Myth crests from T11 delves is still 21, yes?
fathom bramble
20 now
cinder relic
How is outlaw doing in m+
Fineish
Falls off in mega keys probs
Sub seems better
But other specs overall seem better
cinder relic
Literally
timid idol
I forgot to even check this server today
What was the reaction to the beautiful patch notes
timid idol
:D
I got 90 today and did a couple +2s
Low cortisol Chad collapsing star vs beta virgin high cortisol 0 dps outlaw
Not touching this shit again until blizzard wakes up
Idk why they even bothered doing this set of notes
They barely did shit
Ts might as well not have existed
pliant wave
Blizz said they’d tune specs even if raw perf is okay, as long as perception is terrible or the spec feels bad to play.
Rogue has 0 reps in RWF and gets declined from M+ 24/7, so what exactly is it gonna take to get buffs?
junior folio
I'm blessed to have guildies to run keys with but already saw the pain of pugging with outlaw
frail veldt
Cuz people be trollin in the logs
Though these stats are usually bogus
Cuz people don't log keys that often
junior folio
Are shadow priests that below the rest? They seem to pump in raid
fresh grove
A lot of padding from shadow priest
olive marten
Cuz people don't log keys that often
the only time my keys get logged is when i dont forget to stop logging after raid
cinder relic
I think outlaw is still deceptively hard to play
It is
Its not even deceptive lol
Outlaw has a lot of little things (like it always does)
Using PS at 2cp with 2 buff
Actually using Blade flurry and BR properly
Keeping pace
no matter how hard Crackshot uhuh was, the core of outlaw is still fairly complex
Its a high APM spec, with multiple builder, spenders, and cooldowns, and also it has procs
midnight granite
gg boys where buffs
low glade
daring yoke
I just read the pin. Why alsner raid trinket not bis for heroic?
Ignore me. Needed to tap on the pin to see full text 😂
midnight granite
!tricks
ornate heathBOT
midnight granite
only 10?
eternal hound
That's the msot I've seen in a while
cinder relic
GUYS WE ARE SO BACK
ROGUE CONFIRMED CORE ON VANGUARD
PICK UP THE SWORD/DAGGERS AGAIN
WE ARE OFFICIALLY BACK
eternal hound
Oh my god liquid has faith in us
midnight granite
WE ARE SO BACK DOING Z DPS
keen belfry
early season m+ is so misleading i literally cant tell how strong/weak/mid we are
cuz im playing with all kinds of players rn
fathom bramble
imagine if BF wasn't gutted man
I did actually good on dragons
despite the state we are in
keen belfry
did u fuyck dragons this week
fathom bramble
well decent
better than expected
we just killed 5 mythic bosses in 4 hours so
first 5 are kind of easy
but that's pretty normal
keen belfry
oh yeah 140 is a blast on dragons
mellow dagger
is there a world where using opportunity as bad luck protection rather than whenever available without overcapping could be better? for instance:
- Opportunity up
- Dispatch
- 1 CP
- Sinister strike up to either 3 or 6 cp
- If 3, spend opportunity to max out
or is it just better to pistol shot at 1 cp and send a 5 cp dispatch.
fathom bramble
how did it only hit orbs 23 times
while casting it on like every set
it didn't even hit the void orbs on any set except 1
ggg ig
mellow dagger
oh i didnt see that part thanks
pure folio
np
fathom bramble
I got so scammed actually
outlaw played properly(blade rush mouseover macro) would destroy the orbs
craggy barn
oh god a mouse over macro
fathom bramble
alternatively abandon orb damage and actually blade rush on CD properly
and do more boss damage than I actually did
\
peak holly
any recommendation on m+ trinkets? (i hate raids)
mystic berry
heart of wind
finally did some 10s, didnt top a single overall but was a comfy second in all, my fingers hurt tho, I really need recraft weapon
lavish shoal
yeah i think u dont play for br but if it lines up
U don’t play for Brazil?
keen belfry
VAMOS
fathom bramble
yeah i think u dont play for br but if it lines up
yeah prob not
my guild leader just said "everyone go pad on the adds build we have more than enough boss dam"
I do as my leader commands
fathom bramble
we killed up to dragons
I got trolled on salhadaar by the debuff so I did no dam
outlaw life
balmy topaz
What debuff sorry
fathom bramble
the 5 lines the eject from you
balmy topaz
Ohhhh
fathom bramble
I got it twice at key moments and fell out of our feedback loop
balmy topaz
Ye that’s cringe
fathom bramble
yeah 4 hours
balmy topaz
I’m tempted to do what you did and craft dagger
Did you craft that before or after 2nd boss
fathom bramble
before
that dagger is so junk you wouldn't want it anyway
like worse than a M+ pit dagger
uncut fulcrum
outlaw friends is prismatic focusing iris really the bis embellishment for our crafted ring?
frail veldt
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
balmy topaz
outlaw friends is prismatic focusing iris really the bis embellishment for our c...
Embellishments are so minor
fathom bramble
yeah
balmy topaz
I swear there are no good boots
pearl topaz
vague cape
I mean, ion was quoted saying, a lot of wow players are sheeple that just parrot...
That’s fine and is true for irl and almost everything, critical thinking, attention + focus and a willingness to learn and think for yourself are becoming increasingly rare over time, it’s social media - it’s killing people’s ability to do anything but be slaves to their next hit of dopamine - an irl friend of mine can’t stay in a silent disc call / he watches reels WHILE gaming (mid ARAM/league)
LLM / readily accessible - abridged content telling people what to think has only made it worse, why bother thinking for yourself when you feel good and a short video or tier list tells you how to feel about things
lavish shoal
That’s fine and is true for irl and almost everything, critical thinking, attent...
that friend of yours is a beast
shoutout
vague cape
that friend of yours is a beast
We all love him but he’s such a noob
He spam invites the regulars from our irl disc every day
lavish shoal
lemme guess he sucks at league
vague cape
He’s not great, peaked low plat in s6ish? Anyways this is what I mean
fathom bramble
That’s fine and is true for irl and almost everything, critical thinking, attent...
yeah so few people on gaming forums/reddit/discord are actually speaking from their own personal experience
whole shoal
big fan of thinking and introspection personally
fathom bramble
and it makes trying to have a discussion incredibly frustrating
because people will hold a point without really knowing why or what they are talking about
vague cape
Like idk what to say, he just spams it on repeat every day when bored in disc bc being alone without stimulation is unbearable
He openly admits his brain has been rotted
vague cape
yeah so few people on gaming forums/reddit/discord are actually speaking from th...
It’s fine to have a theoretical understanding even, but if faced with experience and evidence you have to concede some points
Whispyr can advise rwf on when and how to play sin, he’s not necessarily going to have played mugzee by the time liquid/echo/method did
fathom bramble
to me that kind of falls under personal experience
whispyr certainly has the personal experience and knowledge base to make an educated guess on something he hasn't done yet
inland maple
bro all yall do is complain just put the fries in the bag and keep dpsing😭 🫰
vague cape
I wouldn’t call it a guess even
fathom bramble
yeah there's probably a better way to say what I mean
vague cape
Moreso a prediction / projection if it’s backed by solid understanding and sims + reasoning
vague cape
Hypothesis works too
Anyways I’m not saying distrust everything etc, but a lot of people could really benefit from just looking at stuff a bit and thinking without letting others cloud their vision
The mythic stats dmg chart was a great example
fathom bramble
I already distrust everything unfortunately
if someone doesn't or can't show their work I almost just write it off as being a random guess
vague cape
People so absorbed by the order that they failed to see how close things 5-6 positions as part were (basically same dps)
fathom bramble
unless I like know who it is
vague cape
And people were complaining sv is a ton better than outlaw, their avg dps is 83vs85- top log for both was 120
Same for a bunch of specs with very close performance (granted aggregation like that is dumb, different dungeons different groups different runs all combined and compared)
The guy who initially made the incorrect judgment upon seeing the chart. when he actually read the numbers and thought- he apologised and saw truth
For the record can they buff outlaw to be better at low target cleave again or get rid of the cap?
fathom bramble
man all 3 rogue specs need desperate low target cleave help
I can't believe all 3 got gutted at once right before a tier with all this cleave
vague cape
Idk what their vision was for just hitting aoe tbh
Only sub kinda came away not totally gutted aoe-wise it feels like
Well outlaw feels stronger at higher target counts than it used to (probably blade rush / better mastery consequence) but stuff like 2t feels off, esp since blade flurry is so expensive and energy is real
No precise either
fathom bramble
yeah for outlaw it's really just the loss of precise
fathom bramble
BR hitting so hard has helped us feel less useless on big packs though
where precise obviously never did anything
vague cape
I’d argue blade rush being used on cd helps outlaws higher target counts
vague cape
Reminds me of super early df padding spiders in shadowmoon burial grounds with it
That and the initial bf hit (is it still uncapped?)
fathom bramble
bf initial is capped
vague cape
RIP
I remember it was uncapped, if they kept it while repeatedly buffing the dmg and mastery
Maybe we coulda been capped most the time with uncapped cds, a little like fury
blissful idol
dagger wrist craft also fine for outlaw?
vague cape
If you can get a good MH, not really though OL would prefer a MH non dagger craft for the most part
balmy topaz
man all 3 rogue specs need desperate low target cleave help
Yeah…
The bosses with 2/3 targets
Feel awful
lavish shoal
ok maybe im not done 1 quest
intro to midnight
kind kite
Damn,tuning. Surely we get mentioned
sureeeeeeeee...
ionic tinsel
!macro
ornate heathBOT
Why don't we macro trinkets to abilities?
- You want to use trinkets while BtE is active, but you can't macro them to BtE, as breaking vanish with a trinket will cause Subterfuge to not activate, so Vanish > BtE macro could fail.
- Trinkets are your only on demand burst damage, you sometimes want to hold it for specific mobs or vulnerability windows.
- You usually don't want to send it on a dying mob.
grim spear
Cutting Precise was honestly so baffling
They said PC and BF were too strong, so we couldn’t have good st performance.
But now PC is gone, BF has been nerfed to this level, and we still don’t have st anyway.
This tier somehow feels even weaker than Manforge
kind kite
Underhanded Upper Hand removing that hurts somtimes
grim spear
At least back then we were strong in low target cleave
but now that’s gone too, and all the weaknesses are still there.
kind kite
im think they should buff sub/assa
vague cape
This tier somehow feels even weaker than Manforge
I still don’t get why just nerfing bf ratio wasn’t enough
Did they want OL to not be strong on 2-3t?
If it’s a matter of st vs aoe you nerf flurry buff st done
grim spear
kind kite
i was laughing when i see in sim 5min 1 boss without any buff was 48k 🙂
vague cape
Y’know what though, this spec is by far the most fun on rogue
Just don’t look at the meters
kind kite
agree its fun too play, but what they do to spec isnt fun
vague cape
I’ve begun rolling off rogue, this isn’t a two rogue tier and I don’t want to be salty another tier that I’m stuck on this class and not able to play the fun spec / have to deal with frustrating shit (sin can’t aoe short lived stuff, esp if it isn’t stacked under the target / the bugs xd / sub being boring as shit / outlaw being unplayable if your guild actually cares to optimise)
I’m tired of being stuck on a class that feels like the devs don’t care
And no this isn’t the grass is greener, I keep geared alts and those classes (hunt / dk) are much better treated
kind kite
well blizzard hate rogues
its kinda funny the aug can do more dmg in ST bcs he is ranged
grim spear
I don’t feel like Outlaw is particularly fun right now. At the very least, it doesn’t feel as good to play as before.
patent mirage
i really wonder how they pull numbers , how did they came up with the 4%
quaint wharf
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
grim spear
The most satisfying bte reset circle is gone
the clunkiness is still there, and the blade animations and sound effects still sucks
kind kite
and ppl say that on crown i got same dmg with aug with t2 set and say that i should be emberrassed
at that moment i didnt have any t-set and crafted rign 259
vague cape
well blizzard hate rogues
They kept giving other classes passive defensives / max hp while rogue got nothing for many years - nowadays I’d argue rogue is squishy meanwhile dk is wearing plot armor
If feint doesn’t work on something and you don’t have cloak it’s joever
You crimson vial and pray
Feint still giga good though other classes just have it passively
kind kite
You crimson vial and pray
crimson vial is the biggest joke on rogues
patent mirage
crimson deez
kind kite
its cost energy and healing too low for 1 only 1 heal speel on our class
vague cape
In SL they nerfed promised us pickpocketable upgrades for crimson vial
I’m still waiting for them
balmy topaz
The most satisfying bte reset circle is gone
Just need
.5
Should help a little
But losing aoe blind for 6ish weeks
Is dumb af
vague cape
Could we have crackshot back as a temporary cd?
vague cape
Like on a long cd
balmy topaz
16 AA
vague cape
It just gives you 10s or w/e of no bte cd
balmy topaz
Could we have crackshot back as a temporary cd?
I don’t think they’ll do it
vague cape
Instead of some of the dead capstones perhaps?
kind kite
they nerfed stealth for outlaw too much
vague cape
They need to seriously look at the HO / audacity package or get rid of it
ATM it’s just a non option
patent mirage
ho feels more like , oh its there
balmy topaz
I hope we don’t play HO
patent mirage
ambush should do more dmg
vague cape
With vanish losing cdr the entire playstyle collapses
balmy topaz
HO with no shadow dance 
vague cape
Since if we still had vanish on low cd they could just make ambush hit really hard and voila, there’s your gameplay
patent mirage
they just need to merge both talents for ho , one talent that procs ambush and shares chance to double hit
vague cape
Honestly this might be a hot take, I’d want them to push a playstyle about melee sword swings that doesn’t invest into pistol shot
To actually offer difference in gameplay not just dmg
Old HO vs rtb was a great and fun choice
vague cape
Sure but then I’m fairly sure it just kills the dagger specs on sight-if it’s ever not weak as shit
Don’t ever forget the plight of the sv hunter
You would make sv hunters out of sin and sub, in a wierd way it would go from being the black sheep of the class to the poster boy
- your raid team would start asking you to go range if you can
Look at feral, spec had better st than balance super often yet saw basically no play, ranged dps is inherently op if it’s a choice with melee
kind kite
well this raid is for ranged if i look for RWF
balmy topaz
Every raid is
kind kite
i wonder how designing fight looks
well lets do big circle under boss that one shots melle
vague cape
Every raid is
To be fair I’d say sanctum of domination was melee favoured
balmy topaz
Look at feral, spec had better st than balance super often yet saw basically no ...
You can’t go off ST sims
vague cape
You can’t go off ST sims
I don’t mean now at all, not looked at now
I meant in the past
balmy topaz
To be fair I’d say sanctum of domination was melee favoured
We have to go all the way back 
vague cape
😭
kind kite
Every raid is
sorry i forgot
random stirrup
The most satisfying bte reset circle is gone
why did they change the noise
ace was legit the best sound in the entire game
so satisfying
kind kite
bcs they hate us
vague cape
why did they change the noise
Not just the sound, the gameplay was litterally crack
We got addicted to chasing that high of 6+ bte resets
kind kite
i think if they addes diffrent sounds to dice would be nice but not necessary
vague cape
Ngl most fun outlaw imo was tww* s2
Df s3 was amazing though
The extra juice with killing spree / coup bug went crazy
kind kite
AA big pull 
junior coral
how far ahead is sub over outlaw yall think? M+
kind kite
well in archon you got sub on A tier and outlaw at C
balmy topaz
I’ve out dpsed every sub I’ve been put against
kind kite
you are just too good
kind kite
whole fight jackpot
serene urchin
are people crafting mythic offhand this week
balmy topaz
I don’t think I had one
balmy topaz
are people crafting mythic offhand this week
I’m gonna ye
serene urchin
I’m gonna ye
hmm alrighty might as well eh
balmy topaz
hmm alrighty might as well eh
Well
The only other thing that can drop really
Is 2nd boss dagger
And from mythic
And it actually sims less
Cus stats on off hand are more important than ilvl
serene urchin
truuu
icy hare
Not to mention since ilvl doesn’t matter on offhand it’s best to have a crafted item there
vague cape
I’ve out dpsed every sub I’ve been put against
tbh I think if the fight doesn't have adds that die in a millisecond / forced downtime outlaw played well can compete
honestly maybe now I've stopped maining rogue I can finally get good at outlaw without the pressure of playing the right spec
vague cape
You shouldn’t be pressured to play the other specs
bro i am BANNED from playing outlaw
let's just say killing spree mighta wiped us on gally / turned mugzee and cauldron of carnage into a horror show (no one died, but people got scared)
plus I just do more dps on sin/sub xd
we're 2day 300ish
maybe if we were 3 day we'd be hof
vague cape
lavish shoal
gl on voracious
vague cape
it's rigged ruby abort
all the tier has mastery on it
his tierset buffs finishers and a good cd, your tierset is a meme
lavish shoal
it's rigged ruby abort
well i am not rank 1 on voracious
the guy who got rank 1 took the aoe pad talent and did giga pad on adds
he is ahead of me by 3k but behind by 4k on boss dmg 💀
vague cape
ngl I fucking hate the way they made this raid
all this wierd aoe
it just feel off to me, esp on sin
shit ain't stacked, short lived
perma extra targets that are immune
sinful dagger
Guys what recommended embell, mainhand sword craft?
vague cape
Guys what recommended embell, mainhand sword craft?
check this page, has your answers
kind kite
I think I can get rank 1 on vor
well i wish you GL
balmy topaz
tyty
hallow cave
patent mirage
when buffs
quartz magnet
stuck bane
what dagger should i craft? murder row fishhook?
iam planning on having it to switch between assa and sub
crude flower
what dagger should i craft? murder row fishhook?
I wish it was a competitive embellishment
loud blaze
How many cp's do we dispatch?
pure folio
5cps as fatebound
loud blaze
THAT makes sense
pure folio
BTE is 6+
loud blaze
I kept spending so much time trying to get the rhythm for BtE that I wasn't casting dispatch enough
novel birch
I’ve out dpsed every sub I’ve been put against
Go you! I'm having a lotta issues with Outlaw being a hurry-up-and-wait, class. Nothing new, really, but I feel up to my neck tryna keep up with DPS, only to be shifted to the bottom of the pack by another class hitting two buttons
uneven charm
Does anyone know if there is a substantial difference between 1BR and doing rotation manually?
rich smelt
in algethar do we take crit or haste
unique fulcrum
Did gaze get nerfed?
quaint mauve
<@101843879791177728> I am building slowly <:Hmm:1230855197266411601>
brother
kind kite
in algethar do we take crit or haste
if you dont have 20% haste take haste if you do take crit or versa
quaint mauve
i’ve gotten duplicate drops for the last 4 drops i’ve gotten
jolly geyser
You guys get m+ loot?
zinc briar
no coz we are outlaw
hasty warren
Hi pitates
rustic lotus
Oh is that why I’m sucking at outlaw cuz I’m aiming to dispatch at max CP?
solid jewel
are any of you switching to sub/ass for raid ST?
vapid salmon
You guys get m+ loot?
lol same, did like 15 m+ yesterday and looted gold 95% of times, ooh I'm rich
there must be some hidden passive that as outlaw we loot gold more often
quaint mauve
Oh is that why I’m sucking at outlaw cuz I’m aiming to dispatch at max CP?
fate bound can dispatch st 5
hasty warren
Guys, we have to fire outlaw dev, help me, find him
there is no outlaw dev
still matrix
So happy I got that stat stick with crit on it sheeesh
How far down is plume on our list now then? Is there a link to the trink sims
stoic wagon
Where outlaw buff guys??
kind kite
there is no outlaw dev
then hire one and fire him
unkempt dew
This game only gives trinkets 
sinful dagger
Guys, noob question, we can only use embel. on one weapon?
We should use one on weapon second on boots right?
quaint mauve
i hate it
it is still good yes
but it’s so simple now man
no loaded dice? KiR 2 buffs or more
loaded dice? reroll 2 buffs or KiR 3+
junior folio
More like there's no rogue dev, who had the great idea of removing aoe blind in the first place
zinc briar
You have to Kick, kidney, vanish cheap shot and gouge
Because we are not there to make dps
We are there to help other
We are the new aug!!!
final atlas
dispatch is used at 5+CPs but BtE is used only at 7 no matter what? it happens very often that i land on 5CPs and have decision to use PS with Opportunity(and waste CPs) or SS my way to 7CPs
sinful dagger
We should use one on weapon second on boots right?
Some pro ? 🤪
tired rune
Spec is garbage fire (天赋是垃圾火), Key bricked by your presence (钥匙因你而碎), M+ score fake like plastic (分数是假的), Instant decline by all leader (秒拒), Go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure (去玩凯蒂猫).
thorn parrot
loaded dice? reroll 2 buffs or KiR 3+
I always KiR on +3 just because it feels better. Solo talked to me about it and agreed it’s actually fine to KiR on 3 but it’s all an RNG thing at the end of the day. If you truly want to min max do it on 2+
icy hare
Do you think we dodged the buffs because Blizzard think we're going to scale really well with more haste and crit?
as our sim isn't that bad with max gear
static crescent
Yeah i think so atleast
I think they are wrong tho
Think they should as approached us like they did ele shaman
tulip quarry
Blizz does not have a clue on how to balance outlaw, i would not be so confident tbh...
mighty pivot
leaden sonnet
<:catgasp:1253064698035699724>
Smh my head cant even make death threats in the discord anymore as that goes against the top minds opinions
novel birch
Is this normal for Outlaw singletarget at 254 ILevel
I always feel like outlaws are fighting for their lives in any pull
patent mirage
<:catgasp:1253064698035699724>
wheres that cooked egg meme
zinc briar
Did they buff outlaw? Or still loading
novel birch
Got a 4% damage buff a few days ago but it's
novel birch
Yeah, barely present. We're all on that life support right now
I hit up my Fury Warrior earlier, and felt like a god with the damage she was pushing out
old gull
patent mirage
the outlaw meme must b changed
novel birch
Yeah, I takes me EONS to get into any mythic+'s without my friend group
patent mirage
to " ROGUE!!!!!!! "
novel birch
I'm not sure what we even need to be a valid DPS class, honestly... I don't think they play badly at all, despite being slightly gutted, but just damage as a whole is lacking
old gull
What I lack in dmg I make up for in lack of utility
patent mirage
we need biblical levels of whining now
no no scrap that
moonkin levels of whining
novel birch
My main role in Mythics is the interrupter. I can nail my kicks and kidney shots pretty much every time, but my DPS barely overtakes tanks
novel birch
moonkin levels of whining
I'm on my gah damn knees for a buff atm
patent mirage
My main role in Mythics is the interrupter. I can nail my kicks and kidney shots...
tanks is the correct word
tank dmg
i would like to srsly ask one of them how they came up with the 4%
novel birch
What demographic of outlaws are they looking at to decide that's enough?
make it 14% and we might be okay
patent mirage
1%
the thing that gets me is how you see classes getting paragraphs of changes and we get 0
novel birch
Yeah, it wounds me deeply
patent mirage
" lets buff unholy cant have them be bad "
novel birch
Thing is, I tried subtlety too and it didn't feel much better. Granted, idk how to play it, and just don't like the class personally- from a playstyle perspective
I don't wanna be pushed into a class change because Outlaw get's forgotten again
TWW was bad enough
hasty warren
cucklaw
novel birch
I'm dissolving like a paracetamol tablet right now
I just wanna do damage
When was the last time Outlaw was a real pumper? It was Dragonflight, right? I remember topping DPS charts back then
zinc briar
Outlaw isnt good since bfa s1
mighty pivot
Is this normal for Outlaw singletarget at 254 ILevel
this is not normal no
desert tendon
<:catgasp:1253064698035699724>
That's so real, we dont like elitists here. Only ryu's cook 40% haste 60% mastery no kir no ho
🏄♂️ 🏄♀️
mighty pivot
they hated ryukage because he told them to truth about stacking haste
novel birch
Actually, what's the goal for Haste, Crit and Versatility percentage I should be aiming for?
desert tendon
!haste
ornate heathBOT
Outlaw's stat prio is generally Crit > Haste* > Vers >= Mastery.
- You need ~21-23% haste for energy, this has priority over crit. That's the haste on your stat page after talents/buffs/flask.
- Crit is then your best stat until you approach ~40%, from there random vers or mastery pieces will be similar.
- You have to use
Raidbots Top Gear to determine the exact combination of pieces to use.
novel birch
Got it, thank you!
desert tendon
that's all you need to know, haste is extremely valuable until a certain threshold, then it's crit vers. Raidbot is the way
novel birch
Yeah, my Haste, crit and vers is at 19%, 17% and 10% atm
so that might be another reason I feel so behind
mellow thicket
That’s fine and is true for irl and almost everything, critical thinking, attent...
I think the Nobel prize recipient Daniel Kahneman spoke to this concept. That most people have always stayed in an automated way of thinking and that the brain hates to be in deliberate or as you put it, a critical thinking mindset.
It’s only natural.
rustic lotus
Maybe I’m a Cringer but I liked vanish windows and evasion feint being always up and vanish working with restless blades
unique fulcrum
The Void Trinket "Skill Tree" doesnt work in m+, righjt
unique fulcrum
frrrr?
unique fulcrum
imma trust you, random internet person
lime lake
next time you go to sim something you can see at the bottom they have toggles for each of the 3 buffs
they added that because it works in instances 
dark ember
do I need more haste?
novel birch
do I need more haste?
I'm accepting donations
near rock
do I need more haste?
couple ring enchants should be enough
gloomy adder
Sorry what are these new class tunings? do i just unsubscribe or what
mighty pivot
3s gcd outlaw 
unkempt dew
Does outlaw rogue have new tuning?
tired rune
Does outlaw rogue have new tuning?
gloomy adder
Does outlaw rogue have new tuning?
0 (ZERO) rogue changes in 31st tuning
unkempt dew
0 (ZERO) rogue changes in 31st tuning
Blizz does not care about outlaw rogue
wintry solar
3s gcd outlaw <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
Can you go to the store for me
I need bread, veggies, and chicken
mighty pivot
no bro I am sick wtf
wintry solar
Dude wtf
gusty path
i love this new spec xDD
wintry solar
You still sick??
mighty pivot
yes
wintry solar
How about now?
mighty pivot
still yes
wintry solar
:(
gusty path
wintry solar
Now?
jolly geyser
if you are sick just get well
mighty pivot
don't you guys have grocery deliveries?
wintry solar
That's what I'm saying
formal thunder
why are your colors so washed out
mighty pivot
captura de pantalla realizada
gloomy adder
Blizz does not care about outlaw rogue
did not think i would ever quit rogue but its actually the worst tier i can actually remember
mighty pivot
dm me your gps coordinates popo
wintry solar
Ninja?
mighty pivot
moon
wintry solar
He did it so he gets it
Wow
How are you sick and on the moon
Both can't be true
jolly geyser
he is on the ISS
mighty pivot
space sickness
jolly geyser
something gonna pop out of your stomach later
mighty pivot
nah, but we do have these very nice eggs here
wintry solar
Space eggs...
jolly geyser
wintry solar
Ask not what layed them
mighty pivot
they look pretty big! I can't wait to see what will pop out!
static crescent
Hmm, looking at Crucible trinket "talent tree" does any of this stuff actually increase its performance in m+?
seems to be only in Voidstorm stuff
or does it bug again or something making it strong or what
wintry solar
That trinket is sexy wtf
leaden sonnet
Im not entirely sure for outlaw, but for the other specs its better than anything you can farm from m+ 
unkempt dew
did not think i would ever quit rogue but its actually the worst tier i can actu...
True, but outlaw for life!
static crescent
Can i get those all 3 points in 1 day @leaden sonnet ?
or is it tied to weeklies
vivid vessel
weekly
static crescent
roger
sullen walrus
we need to craft ring?
keen grove
Based on the logic here, would it make more sense to put the primary stat personal food instead of hte secondary stat ones?
jolly geyser
I been eating the roasts
vapid salmon
Just curios, are there other classes with one ability doing like 50% of the overall damage? I get that this not entirely true since bf gain damage from any other source
radiant wyvern
outlaw easiest class in the game ? all dmg 1 button
jolly geyser
zinc briar
they should buff auto attacks
zinc briar
to stay afk watching
vivid vessel
cast bars are fine its normal that its possible to do that
kick tracker i think rely on knowing a guy interrupted
zinc briar
banned in 3...2...1...
upper sage
why is Crucible of Erratic Energies simming higher than the Solarflare Prism when the prism gives more crit
to pair with my umbral plume
vivid vessel
@fathom bramble
you blasted drakes no
even boss damage yttou did good
also i saw you discussing that br thing
maybe its worth to target add for boss damage
if you cleave
onto boss
with main gauche
leaden folio
outlaw hidden op
radiant wyvern
stop logging high dps keep stacking sandbags
slim hare
stop logging high dps keep stacking sandbags
dont worry
its still high rogue dps
it doesnt compare to the other class
we dont need to sandbag
blizzard just want rogue to suck
it is what it is
blazing pulsar
stop logging high dps keep stacking sandbags
I don't think blizzard cares one way or the other
upper sage
frost mages will still beatus
jolly geyser
he did a oopsie its 08
zinc briar
or we want more
crimson scarab
the more the merrier
indigo token
YOOOOOOOOO
mighty pivot
haters will say it's fake
slim hare
how long of a cd cd is ams ?
flat pebble
April 1st came early
slim hare
give us that on cloak
jolly geyser
vial gives us dmg reduction
vivid vessel
how long of a cd cd is ams ?
isnt it 45s
jolly geyser
next ability
mighty pivot
when the outlaw dev changes again in 2 years from now
vivid vessel
hope you are happy
slim hare
fuck that
make that wowhead post "rogue suck "
guardian just got theirs
how is that not a solution ?
vivid vessel
we are allowed one every 5 years
slim hare
this discord is run by "not smart people"
that all there is to it
complaining works for every other class
but god forbid we do it
tired rune
"come back outlaw looks good" - my wife
slim hare
one slot every 5 years
tired rune
fucking baited
jolly geyser
people have hate boner if rogue does good
vivid vessel
"come back outlaw looks good" - my wife
Is your wife foreverguy
jolly geyser
some pvp ptsd passed down or some shit
tired rune
Is your wife foreverguy
might have to call her that next time she baits me
vivid vessel
tired rune
vivid vessel
Guy every tier: "guys it might be an outlaw tier this spec looking kinda like thanos rn"
inland acorn
We're thanos
jolly geyser
dust
tired rune
even guy gave up
inland acorn
If you compare us with healers
tired rune
its done
flat pebble
look at thanos gameplay : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl0SNQ59xIU
paper rivet
It's so sad tho the raid profile is kinda good for outlaw just tuning is garbage
slim hare
look at thanos gameplay : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl0SNQ59xIU
make a wowhead article where the summary of it is this
slim hare
sub probably doesnt or small one
slim hare
sin could use some help aswell
wintry solar
just in case they thought we forgot what they did to us
slim hare
actually instead of asking for outlaw buff
we should be asking for sub nerf
at least we will probably succeed
still matrix
Someone make a blue post
Like Zac
You make it
You're seen as the outlaw guy
Make a big post
And we'll all blast it on twitter
mystic berry
Guy is the outlaw guy, Zac is the outlaw streamer
still matrix
Then lock the outlaw discord for a week
wintry solar
where am I gonna shit post?
wintry solar
well hold on now where am I gonna harass sub players?
still matrix
Lock it down!
wintry solar
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT
tired rune
mystic berry
True, the only reason rogue is ignored is because we didn't close discord
tired rune
hows your morning going guys?
still matrix
Legit
wintry solar
thats the same picture
mystic berry
hows your morning going guys?
being declined or ignored for m+
pretty much
I have to wait for my healer friends to log on
wintry solar
the foliage in the same location
proven ocean
These are all the same sceeenshots atleast post them in different sizes 
still matrix
!trinkets
wintry solar
bro SUCKS at dooming
tired rune
These are all the same sceeenshots atleast post them in different sizes <a:kekIN...
what difference would that make
still matrix
!trinket
still matrix
!sims
ornate heathBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
still matrix
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
mighty pivot
stop tagging solo for dumb shit. Only for important things like cat pictures
craggy quiver
wintry solar
they say its a joke but they really want it
tired rune
joey ravioli
mystic berry
Funniest thing is
gaunt phoenix
wintry solar
tony pepperoni
mystic berry
locking the rogue discord would just mean we continue without balance and a place to discuss it
because we are not paladins
lol
proven ocean
mighty pivot
loaf
proven ocean
Locking the discord and making the entire discord look like cry babies isn’t gonna fix it
We talked about it its just unlucky tuning
proven ocean
Outlaw seems somewhat fine in m+ its not disastrously bad
still matrix
That's my pic for the sims I just took it of a cat on a bin
still matrix
Locking the discord and making the entire discord look like cry babies isn’t gon...
Bro it works! What do you even mean
proven ocean
still matrix
Why do you think people complain at the airport for stupid stuff, because it works to get a seat upgrade
That's why Karen's are successful
If it didn't work you wouldn't know about it bruh
Bro that cat is actually hella photogenic
Im a cameraman
copper radish
are we getting any borrowed power catchup items in 12.0.5
jolly geyser
wintry solar
are we getting any borrowed power catchup items in 12.0.5
hopefully something we can put haste on :D
still matrix
Do we have a hard cap on haste?
mystic berry
hopefully something we can put haste on :D
its gonna be mastery dw
proven ocean
hopefully something we can put haste on :D
Popo why u react to ur own msgs? Lol
still matrix
I know it drops off after like 24-24%? Then straight crit
still matrix
I gotta get the ball rolling
I was legit about to say get the ball rolling
proven ocean
Im not
jolly geyser
wintry solar
forgive me?
proven ocean
no
wintry solar
alright
proven ocean
Reacting to ur own msg means ur cooked
wintry solar
this isnt news to anyone though is it?
wintry solar
is it?
proven ocean
i was gonna say is it but i already said that 
sinful dagger
Its so fu.... annoying, +10 no chance to get invite... with 263 ilvl 
proven ocean
Its so fu.... annoying, +10 no chance to get invite... with 263 ilvl
Someone invite the man
what the helly
sinful dagger
Its not funny at all
wintry solar
made me exhale through my nose so its kinda funny
craggy barn
ye
mighty pivot
your new name is more accurate popo
craggy barn
funny bc i see people claiming rogue is absurd damage than anything else in 10s 😂
wintry solar
a mind cooked is a mind freed
mighty pivot
remember when midnight's trailer had an outlaw rogue in it and there was a glimpse of hope? it was good bait ngl
wintry solar
speculation is more fun than playing
mighty pivot
true and real. why are they even releasing expansions instead of just making trailers?
tiny dagger
are yall using prep for m plus?
formal thunder
are yall using prep for m plus?
y
e
I like it, especially with all the damage amp bosses this season
helps having your cds ready for it without gimping yourself for ages
vivid vessel
im using prep
mighty pivot
both zac and popo are using prep. That's all you need to know
vivid vessel
lucid sparrow
wintry solar
my thought exactly
crimson scarab
over the 2nd point in summarily dispatched
wintry solar
booooo
crimson scarab
is there a significant dps difference between using prep or not?
crimson scarab
i really dont like prep
if it were on restless blades, it would be so much better
midnight granite
and off gcd
crimson scarab
between prep and no prep?
wintry solar
dang lol
crimson scarab
isnt it sometimes a bit awkward to use in keys, i still havent tried it
wintry solar
#GoCrazy I guess
jolly geyser
huge
wintry solar
I really monkey pawed this
my bad yall
I wanted less disparity between capstones and blizz one-upped me and just did it with the entire tree
proven ocean
U just login every year just to waste 10 hours of ur life
For the worst content on eartg
proven ocean
why ddnt you pay for a boost
I couldnt find
Some1 offered to play on my account but hell no im not even gonna consider that shit
Thats a golden ticket to lose ur account
In many different ways possible
still matrix
Apparently there is a afk boost now
proven ocean
Ban, he steals ur shit and changes password gets hold of some rights on the account
Etc
vivid vessel
ye idk i heard they were doing some boost in voidzone
proven ocean
Apparently there is a afk boost now
What is it tho
vivid vessel
or smth
proven ocean
Hmm
vivid vessel
full dawn
1.5m for 3-4 hours. that's some good gph
proven ocean
From where