outlaw

[cinder relic]

Law in keys rn feels good af it's true

It probs falls off but it feels good

[vivid vessel]

it falls off

i did some real keys today

i mean in some dungeons it looks fine

[copper radish]

Don’t we get 1 more tuning in the next month?

[vivid vessel]

but

im full buffed grp

warrior turbo gapping me

[blissful idol]

also arms exodia

[vivid vessel]

some packs im under tank

[blissful idol]

out of nowhere for 0

[vivid vessel]

boss damage is innexistant

[copper radish]

Whirlwind spam >>>

[vivid vessel]

2 t boss

you are doing tank dam

cant even press feint on 2 target boss

[glass mortar]

2t bosses r so funny

god pressing BF on them feels awful

[cinder relic]

So like, warrior got 4 buffs in a row

[glass mortar]

deft energy cost is so awful

[keen belfry]

surely we are next

[cinder relic]

Because ppl kept saying "arms is the worst spec in the game"

[vivid vessel]

:D

[cinder relic]

And now it's the king of aoe

[vivid vessel]

it was needed bro

[cinder relic]

It's kinda nasty

[vivid vessel]

outlaw in s3 tww was doing so much aoe

[glass mortar]

honestly havent fought a dungeon boss i felt "strong" on in keys

[vivid vessel]

you needed to nerf bf from 50 to 30

remove pc

[glass mortar]

aoe as long as packs are 8 targets feels alright tho

[vivid vessel]

and make bf unpressable

[glass mortar]

so they hit one tuning metric for me

[vivid vessel]

this was all needed

cause of outlaw supremacy in aoe

all of tww s3

[glass mortar]

idk whoever was doing design just decided rogue isnt allowed to do low target cleave

based on the raid logs all 3 specs r just dog at it

w/e

ud think being target capped would come with some upsides but nobody told that to the new dev

[vivid vessel]

:D

new outlaw dev prolly doesnt know outlaw is target capped bro

its alright

[inland acorn]

Upside is you have excuse for shit dps

[glass mortar]

BR hits everything he even had to softcap it

[inland acorn]

[glass mortar]

😎

this ability is probably like 30% of their damage right

[jolly geyser]

make bte hit everything

[loud blaze]

Are they afraid that buffing ST for rogue will spill over because of BF and make them pseudo-mandatory in M+?

[vivid vessel]

[glass mortar]

i dont think they r afraid of anything

i think they just dont care

its not our turn

one day

[jolly geyser]

aoe kidney shot

[hasty warren]

rogue is just a meme class

[glass mortar]

incase u missed it the outlaw design cycle on alpha beta was basically initial changes (removing crackshot and some tweaks to talents), followed by several weaks of properly implementing our apex

[prisma lantern]

Or even just a talent that makes distract an AoE interrupt...

[glass mortar]

followed by 90% of alpha/beta being tuning our BF cleave and damage

with no more iteration

🙂

calling what we had a design cycle even is a bit silly

[stuck bane]

SS generates 1 CP normally and 2 CPs if it procs :ps: Opportunity. However with stage 2 :rtb_doubletrouble: RTB it becomes 2 CPs normally and 4 CPs on proc. With :fatebound: Fatebound it becomes 5 CPs on proc.

for this point, how does fatebound work exactly? is it a buff and whats the duration? because i cant find a spell called fatebound

[wintry solar]

One of y'all did something to make blizz mad

[loud blaze]

That's what I was just thinking 👆

[keen belfry]

just perma roll jackpot

[inland acorn]

I think its you popo

[glass mortar]

fatebound is one of our hero talent trees

trickster and fatebound

[wintry solar]

I did nothing

I think Weran did it

[glass mortar]

its true it was me

[jolly geyser]

Blame it on Zac

[glass mortar]

i did the ER bug shamelessly in front of my RL in hopes it would get if fixed forever so zac would rage

[jolly geyser]

he can take it

[glass mortar]

and instead they decided to take us out back

[loud blaze]

I don't want to be at the top of the charts, I'd just like for the gulf between top and bottom to be a little smaller.

[jolly geyser]

slipstream

[stuck bane]

should i be tracking it?

[glass mortar]

tracking what

[loud blaze]

maybe if there's a specific criticism we can come up with they will implement it?

[glass mortar]

what... hero talent tree you are playing?

[loud blaze]

of course, thats only if they care

[inland acorn]

yeah

[stuck bane]

fatebound

[inland acorn]

we tried that

2 expansions ago

[glass mortar]

uh

[inland acorn]

1 expansion ago

[glass mortar]

i dont really know how to answer

[inland acorn]

3 expansions ago

didn't work

[glass mortar]

its a talent tree u choose when u made ur talents

its not an ability or passive

its the whole talent tree

is called fatebound

[stuck bane]

i mean like he says:

SS generates 1 CP normally and 2 CPs if it procs :ps: Opportunity. However with stage 2 :rtb_doubletrouble: RTB it becomes 2 CPs normally and 4 CPs on proc. With :fatebound: Fatebound it becomes 5 CPs on proc.

should i be tracking fatebound proc?

or just wing it?

[glass mortar]

its not a proc

[jolly geyser]

outlaw devs more rng than legion rtb

[glass mortar]

for fatebound one of its talents makes SS generate an additional CP

its just something to know happens

[loud blaze]

don't track it, just play the priority and it will work out

[glass mortar]

it always happens when SS procs

[prisma lantern]

I mean honestly I think part of it is just that Blizzard does a better job of balancing rogues generally. I think they shoot for every spec to be around middle of the pack for the most part.

I think the thing is we're just better at figuring stuff out and optimizing in beta / ptr than other classes. So we get baselined at a more optimized spot.

Meanwhile classes like Lock and DK figure out big optimizations after release.

[stuck bane]

thanks guys

[keen belfry]

np

[inland acorn]

that's a cap

They don't take longer to optimize

[loud blaze]

I miss Legion tbh, rolling for CDR and then BIG slaps with dreadblades. Good times.

[inland acorn]

They're just uber sandbagging

For rogues

[keen belfry]

i really like how hard our btes can hit

[inland acorn]

Theres nothing to sandbag

[keen belfry]

zero in is good

good talent W blizz

[noble moon]

they should give us an abiliuty where we wheel out a cannon and shoot the guy with it, 20 second cast time, 6 million uncapped aoe damage

[loud blaze]

what was the criticism? I've forgotten and checked out in DF when we lost the extended range while every boss seemed to have large ground effects...

[jolly geyser]

Or we summon cass from ow

[inland acorn]

At this point i don't even remember

[glass mortar]

i mean we have direct examples to go off of for why we are annoyed by lack of response to feedback

[inland acorn]

But just for this expansion it was mostly about our energy

And once again we were right

We are struggling with energy

[glass mortar]

when 11.2.5 kspree rework was coming down the line, the devs told us to make a feedback post about it and give feedback on the forums

[inland acorn]

especially in specific scenarios

[glass mortar]

and that they were already considering changing ksprees cd

[keen belfry]

i had a BTE hit for 338k last night

[glass mortar]

then new kspree came out, and they changed its cd, then didnt iterate on it further other then buffing/nerfing damage for a month

[keen belfry]

thoughts?

[river wing]

that is a very curious take
but like
uhhh
balancing rogue for medium DPS is a mistake to begin with...

[glass mortar]

ignored a 10 page feedback forum filled with outlaws

and it went live

🙂

[prisma lantern]

Not saying they do.

I'm just saying they don't.

Literally half the time some classes sims just don't fucking work and class discords are useless.

So average feelycrafty builds and rotations become the norm. Then that's the baseline that's balanced around in beta. Then someone actually figures it out later and the optimizations give them higher ability to pop off.

[inland acorn]

don't forget they increased its duration

[proven ocean]

[glass mortar]

not a single change we asked for that they didnt mention initially in here was even tried

[loud blaze]

My only problem in TWW was how the flow worked during the damage windows. Good RNG it was perfect, but if you have to do two SS to build to a finisher it just felt bad.

[keen belfry]

i agree TWW SS was a bit ass

high proc SS is banger too

[mystic berry]

mafic was there?

[vivid vessel]

we have the same procrate as before cuh

[keen belfry]

nuhuh

[glass mortar]

im just impressed they managed to make it so even with much higher procrate baseline u still feel so dogshit with 1 buff

and can barely play the game

[vivid vessel]

yes we do

its not much higher procrate

its litteraly the same

[glass mortar]

its a much higher procrate with 1 buff

but it feels the same as old BT 1 buff

[keen belfry]

im counting having rtb

[glass mortar]

ur just dog useless if u have 1 buff

[vivid vessel]

im also counting having rtb lol

[glass mortar]

despite the increased chance

[keen belfry]

whats the proc rate?

[vivid vessel]

skull and crossbone was a buff in tww

[inland acorn]

i honestly think 1 buff doesn't even do what its supposed to

[vivid vessel]

basically the same as tww

[inland acorn]

I swear i almost never proc SS with 1 buff

[glass mortar]

i believe we have like 5% higher procrate with new 1 buff vs old skull Xbones no?

with the 10% chance talent as well in the tree

but its not much

[vivid vessel]

i think if you have the talent

yes

[glass mortar]

not as much as u think awang

but its guarenteed also

old xbones was not

[keen belfry]

zac did u see my BTE did for 338k last night

[vivid vessel]

and im also accounting uptime

[glass mortar]

and it wasnt 100% uptime outside s2

[cinder relic]

U didn't always have skull

[vivid vessel]

snc was 80% uptimne

[cinder relic]

U had it a lot but not always

[glass mortar]

we had seasons it was pretty close

[vivid vessel]

but it was higher chance

so in average

[glass mortar]

but yea it wasnt guarenteed

[vivid vessel]

we have the same

as before

unless you take the talent

[keen belfry]

im gonna murder zac this tier it hink

[vivid vessel]

which you dont even take in keys

we looked at it during beta i dont wanna run all the numbers again i dont remmeber

but ye

its the same as tww basically

no diff

[keen belfry]

hmm maybe my brain is fried but i ss feels better than before

ps feels worse but ss feels better

[glass mortar]

well

[keen belfry]

maybe thats why?

[glass mortar]

SS does actual damage

maybe thats helping for u? idk

[vivid vessel]

well cause fth is dog and you have perma broadside also

[glass mortar]

but also the lows of new outlaw arent even 16 ss in a row

like u always have high SS proc rate

and it doesnt even matter

if u dont have t2 buff u still just eat all ur energy and tea if ur ever on 1 buff

[dense coral]

@vivid vessel i notice you are running prep in keys, how big of a dps loss is not running prep?

[vivid vessel]

swear the lows are way lower

[glass mortar]

even if ur getting average rng

[vivid vessel]

now

than in tww

lol

in keys

[glass mortar]

yea it still feels quite dog anytime u hit the low

[vivid vessel]

not in raid

[keen belfry]

i agree playing with 1 buff fucks you for aabout 4 minutes

[vivid vessel]

in keys idk i have had bosses i legit cannt press a button for 5 s straight

every buitton

[keen belfry]

ye

[vivid vessel]

and you have adr 50s away

like

ok bro ?

what do i do

[glass mortar]

bro we did the first pull of a

[inland acorn]

go afk

[vivid vessel]

my teas were depleted on first pull already

[glass mortar]

whats the void zone dungeon with the light dreadlord

idk the names this season

[inland acorn]

nexus point

[vivid vessel]

dude i had that happenm with 3 buff

its not even

idk

man

[glass mortar]

our tank went too big with the first pull and after like 30s of combat we wiped w/e

i used up 3 tea charges during it

i never recovered the rest of the dungeon

[keen belfry]

i GENUINELY THINK you have to manage teas at the end of pulls in m+, like proccing a tea as a pull is dying is something you have to avoid now

[glass mortar]

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel try this

[glass mortar]

i hit energy starvation like 10 times over the dungeon where i was just going 1 SS every 4s half afk

[keen belfry]

go afk end of pulls if gonna proc tea bag

[inland acorn]

that just feels ass tho

[glass mortar]

all off that one big L at the start

[inland acorn]

Staring at mob with like ~10%

and you're like

I cant press anything

or i proc tea

guess i'll wait for my tank to finish mob

lol

[glass mortar]

and nobody else is dpsing it

[keen belfry]

it usually means just like half press buttons

[glass mortar]

so ur just autoing and staring at energy and tea

trying not to consume

[keen belfry]

you do fine dps auto attacking with bf up

[glass mortar]

many such cases

[keen belfry]

trust me it feels less ass than going into a boss with 1 buff and 1 tea charge

[glass mortar]

they reintroduced alot of the janky pain points that uhuh and crackshot actually solved for outlaw

thats what happens when u just delete aspects of the spec instead of trying to improve them tho

and then do zero iteration on the spec u turned it into

🤷

wait for real iteration

[inland acorn]

ye

wait for TLT

[loud blaze]

@inland acorn you mentioned making a new bar for pots/racials/trinket so I messed with it. Something like this?

[glass mortar]

still nobody has managed to explain to me how our apex ended up named gravedigger

[inland acorn]

ye something like this

[vivid vessel]

https://www.twitch.tv/zac__________________/clip/AbstruseSoftHummingbirdFeelsBadMan-4swK2eET0VMV-jvF @keen belfry @glass mortar

im just exiting adr with a 2 buff

[jolly geyser]

its because

[vivid vessel]

and im dying

explain

[jolly geyser]

[vivid vessel]

like what even is happening in this clip

like watch the damage amp bro

[noble moon]

BC the spec is dead gg

[vivid vessel]

[fleet totem]

uhuh and crackshot were actually so fun

[glass mortar]

[wintry solar]

good riddance

[glass mortar]

the best is when uve been sitting in an energy drought on 1 or 2 buff for like 10s and finally u get AR off cd

[keen belfry]

no

[glass mortar]

press it, r mostly gcd capped for the duration

[wintry solar]

bad riddance?

[glass mortar]

then come out of AR at 20 energy

and are back to being starved

[keen belfry]

i wonder what u can even do there

nothingi think

[inland acorn]

log off

[loud blaze]

still not clean as what one could do with WAs though. So I see what you meant about the UI.

[inland acorn]

it's also extra gymnastics for something that could be simply solved

by letting us track things in cdm

and let us customize it more without need of addons

[lucid coral]

How imperative is it that outlaw rogues have a dagger in their off hand? Is it critical or just preferred?

[inland acorn]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.

It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.

[glass mortar]

its like 30 weapon ilvls now, so pretty close to required

[keen belfry]

weran did u play mw2

[jolly geyser]

which one

[glass mortar]

no i havent healed at all this expac

[keen belfry]

the real one

[glass mortar]

fuk setting up new frames

and using blizzard frames

[keen belfry]

bro thinks im talking about misweaver 2

[glass mortar]

oh wait you mean call of duty

last cod i played was uhhhhhhhhhh black ops

if that didnt come out before it then no

[keen belfry]

the 2010 mw2 or wahtever it was

[wintry solar]

2009

[jolly geyser]

I played on release,almost got prenerf 1887s for myself for a few hrs

[glass mortar]

i think i did play that one actually

[keen belfry]

this was me nbd

opk x kiity

[glass mortar]

360

but u used the scope

so close to being him

[keen belfry]

this was when trickshottin started

this was what early early trickshotting was

[jolly geyser]

remember a person called reapzz in mw2 era?

[keen belfry]

yes

holy pull

crazy killfeeds

[glass mortar]

i was more of a halo gamer anyway

[jolly geyser]

Sandy Ravage

[glass mortar]

halo 3 my goat

[keen belfry]

i was the goat of mw2

[jolly geyser]

I was crazy aggressive in mw2, playstyle that is

[noble moon]

the intervention sound lives rent free in my head at all times

[wooden pilot]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fervent garden]

So I chatGPD'ed what's new with Rogue class this week and its honest impressions :

[wintry solar]

oh no...

[noble moon]

can we ban this guy

football pfp and chatgpt holy

[glass mortar]

did it hallucinate a

RtB change

or did they actually change something

[fervent garden]

still trying to figure out "casino" spec

[wintry solar]

dont put too much weight on casino

[eternal hound]

So guys

whats the fastest way to get a tank

[noble moon]

have friends

[eternal hound]

Fuck

[wintry solar]

be a tank

[eternal hound]

...

I get told this in the rogue discord

[wintry solar]

well dont ask a question if you fear the answer

[eternal hound]

I know but we don't have a tank spec!

[noble moon]

#bringbackcombatrogue

[eternal hound]

I mean

[glass mortar]

.... yet

[eternal hound]

yes

[mighty pivot]

there it is

[wintry solar]

[mighty pivot]

speaking of combat rogue, I should go check how mafic is doing

[wintry solar]

why

[mighty pivot]

I miss him

[noble moon]

i had most damage taken in an alleria fight the other day bc the tanks died and the healers just spammed all heals on me so

[glass mortar]

oh ninja did u ever post in that thread about the BtE projectile gravedigger thing

[noble moon]

i think its viable

[wintry solar]

Weran will do it

[glass mortar]

i forgot to include it in my post

[wintry solar]

I just had fun doing a world quest, theres a worm in my brain or soemthing

[mighty pivot]

if it was in the rogue section I avoid going there

[glass mortar]

the feedback post?

oh wait it was rem not u that posted initially in it

and baited me to post

but no it was in ptr

[mighty pivot]

I did not post about that no. Honestly the spec has bigger issues rn anyway

[copper radish]

RIP to feint and evasion CDR

[mighty pivot]

and I don't see them fixing that delay

[glass mortar]

yea theyve all already been posted about tho

[mighty pivot]

true

[noble moon]

i was tanking boss autos for like a minute

[glass mortar]

was this lfr alleria?

[mighty pivot]

12.0.5 is locked in we got our mid af aoe stop back at least

[noble moon]

normal

[glass mortar]

she must be crazy undertuned then even m0 dungeon bosses autoing me would chunk me for like 80% hp an auto

no way im livin past evasion anymore

even with healers pumping

[placid ocean]

I evasion tanked alleria this week. Then I got scared and vanished right as the raid leader called for externals on me

[noble moon]

and yet both tanks still died

it was in p3 idk if her autos are super spaced out there or what

[wintry solar]

is rwf still going?

[glass mortar]

yes

[wintry solar]

feels like theres less and less talk about it each patch

[glass mortar]

well its sorta in the boring infinite splits infinite gearing alts mode rn

idk if anyone is pushing bosses

[vivid vessel]

they are splitting mythic this tier

blizzard managed to make splitting worse

with this raid

kinda funny

[glass mortar]

r they splitting actual mythic or just the 1 boss raid

[vivid vessel]

actual mythic ye

they havent done it yet

[glass mortar]

interestin

yea i mean the 1 boss raid makes sense

[vivid vessel]

but they basically didnt took full main guy comp

liquid

[glass mortar]

apparently the tuning is decently low and theres no lockout if u fail so like

ur not wasting potential characters to it

[vivid vessel]

they have other main char geared on the side rn

[vivid vessel]

till vanguard they basically one shot every boss s o

[keen belfry]

so far do bosses feel less mechanic slop

i feel like my casual CE guild is absolutely blasting heroic, feels too easy

[wintry solar]

I rarely get One of a Kind but when I do its always the worst possible time

[vivid vessel]

idk about mechanic slop but

have you done last boss ?

[keen belfry]

we are doing last boss tn

[vivid vessel]

i feel like the only difficulty is seeing the poop on top of the dogshit with some piss smeared on top of it

i dont like the fight one bit

feels way too easy

[mighty pivot]

blue on blue on blue

[vivid vessel]

and the only hard part about it is seeing the shit shit on shit

thats legit all

[noble moon]

does stinky black help

[keen belfry]

wanna know what boss is shit on shit

the bird boss in windrunner

so much fire

[wintry solar]

are you done with wordles

[mighty pivot]

their encounter designers heard the feedback on pink on pink on pink of MO, so now they did it again in midnight

[jolly geyser]

abilities not seen in stairs is also good, like half seen

[glass mortar]

my tank

[mighty pivot]

I am sick and dead inside these days, I'll see when I'll get back on it

[glass mortar]

pulled the last two big bozos in the troll dungeon that spawn the cyclones

halfway up the stairs

then stopped to fight them there

cuh

[noble moon]

:yuckie:

sorry we dont have the technologia to make circles go diagnoal

[wintry solar]

get well soon pookie

[static crescent]

so guys, are we hyped about patch notes on friday

time to get giga buffed

[mighty pivot]

2% extra BF splash

[glass mortar]

on the initial hit only

[mighty pivot]

imagine if they buffed the initial hit enough to make it worth it on 1 target

[glass mortar]

it would need to hit so hardf

lmao

god that would be awful

[glass mortar]

but via deft only

cant have it hitting hard baseline

gotta tax ur energy for that

😎

[mighty pivot]

no no

a new talent instead

[glass mortar]

!!

where could u put it to make pathing to it criminal

replace HO with it

[junior coral]

im about to lose my lid lmao... ayije cdm is disappearing when i play sub but stays fine for outlaw... i really cant understand how to fix it

[mighty pivot]

they will keep HO because they like to keep suboptimal talents around without ever buffing them

[keen belfry]

check if you have any other cdm addons

[mighty pivot]

under heavy hitter

[junior coral]

i dont... man this is driving me nuts

i hate this addon change lol but this is really killing my vibe

[noble moon]

i dont know much about that addon but sounds like a load trigger like we used to have for weakauras where its only loading based on which spec you have active and its only active for outlaw?

[junior coral]

its weird bc its active when i change talents to sub but as soon as i go in combat it goes away

does seem like a load trigger but cant find it

spent like 2 hrs going nuts and nothing

[tropic zephyr]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[noble moon]

yeah weird

[junior coral]

at this point im open to paying some one to help lmao

[noble moon]

i would install and take a look but workma

try the ol uninstall and reinstall

[junior coral]

true maybe ill; try

[unique fulcrum]

did i fuck up by crafting feet and weapon and not weapon and dagger

[jolly geyser]

dagger is in vault

[keen belfry]

just go to his discord and ask

hes a good dev

[junior coral]

ohhh that a good idea

[jolly geyser]

I use awank bar

[glass mortar]

yes make a new rogue

its all over for u

[noble moon]

what should i use my midnight boost on

[unique fulcrum]

gg..

[jolly geyser]

some ranged

[unique fulcrum]

i guess i full send my 2nd craft to mythic now?

[noble moon]

ranged boring

[placid ocean]

Preservation Evoker

[glass mortar]

mh weapon to mythic if ur raid doesnt have better plans is dec ya

[noble moon]

i played mm last season

[jolly geyser]

go giga healer and get inved in 1sec

[eternal hound]

My god it took 3 days for a fucking +10

[glass mortar]

pog gratz

[noble moon]

are you queueing as solo dps

bc it will do that

[eternal hound]

No

I'm doing my own key and getting trolled

Cuz le skill issue

[noble moon]

i did my own key and got pretty lucky with pugs

they didnt win on dps but at least we timed them

[eternal hound]

Also

Question

How do you beat BDK?

[noble moon]

dont play with them

idk i havnt seen one yet lol

[glass mortar]

blood dk?

[eternal hound]

Dude they're crazy

[glass mortar]

on overall?

[noble moon]

brm is crazy atm

[eternal hound]

The ones I've seen are doing like 70k consistantly

[glass mortar]

u shuldnt really lose to any tanks

[jolly geyser]

I can recommend tank friends

[glass mortar]

unless theres a severe gear gap

[eternal hound]

also yes holy self report

[glass mortar]

my overalls at 255-257 ilvl over my keys this week have mostly been in the 92-110k overall range

depending on pulls and whatnot

but generally tanks were doing 20-30% less then that

[noble moon]

tanks can win on some packs tbf but st you catch up hopefully

unless your weapon is gigashit

[eternal hound]

I mean I got a hero track sword

and a vet dagger ]\

So I'm kinda cooked

[noble moon]

upgraded?

[eternal hound]

Sword is 4/6. dagger is full 250

[noble moon]

i was doing turboshit with a hero sword until i got it 6/6 then stuff started going better

either that or i just got better at the spec by playing it

or both

[eternal hound]

Yeah I mean I also know I'm making a ton of mistakes

[noble moon]

we'll get there

we will beat the tanks

[eternal hound]

Honestly I feel like tanks have a history of being cracked in first season keys

Like prot pally was disgusting in TWW S1

To be fair thou I do probally need a better sword

I got radiant foil from delves

[noble moon]

i think thats what im using

or the other part of that set

i got one of them

idk if i craft a weapon or go straight to boots

think boots is better

[eternal hound]

I mean also

getting disconnected constantly for some reason isn't helping

[jolly geyser]

wielding last boss normal sword and mh myth sword, fishing for daggers

[glass mortar]

im just gunna craft a dagger oh for my second

[noble moon]

i will simply manifest weapons in my vault

[jolly geyser]

[glass mortar]

theres only one haste crit dagger in the whole season and picking an oh outa vault is kinda meh

not the worst but what r u gunna do

[noble moon]

beats a socket

[glass mortar]

also means u dont even have a chance for mh if ur fishing for oh in vault

[noble moon]

idk i want to craft my own gear and ive only got leathercrafting

so i think i craft boots and fish for main haind in vualt

then once i get one start fishing for oh

[jolly geyser]

I crafted my 2 piece myself, was wrists. Prolly after some drinks

[glass mortar]

u will want at least 1 crafted weapon for embell probably? the strongest embels are the weapon ones i believe

[noble moon]

i havnt crafted yet so i can still change my mind

[fallen zodiac]

can i play sword/dagger? i just got a pretty cool hero dagger

[glass mortar]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.

It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.

[glass mortar]

it is in fact the correct way to play

[noble moon]

i just had it in my head that hero is fine for now and then mythic boots is a higher ilvl boost

but ig weapon ilvl is a bigger jump in dps even if boots ilvl overall is higher

[glass mortar]

just about impossible to beat mh weapon dps/crafts yes

unless u expect easy early access to MH mythic track weapons

[noble moon]

manifested in vault ezpz

[jolly geyser]

was it nexus that had dagger with crit/haste

[noble moon]

pit

[jolly geyser]

oh, got 10 pit key. Surely

[noble moon]

i believe

[jolly geyser]

not today prolly. Tomorrow

[noble moon]

i dont believe in tommorow

has to be today

[jolly geyser]

nah, I wanted to play another game

[noble moon]

rip dagger

[jolly geyser]

ye

[lavish siren]

@wintry solar @copper radish these Delves got me right now to do some real pve

[tight kernel]

isnt he cute

[wintry solar]

no

get this FREAK off my screen

[mighty pivot]

aug 🗑️

[wintry solar]

oh aug too

yeah this is bait

[tight kernel]

My outlaw is retired till the .5 patch

[sullen walrus]

u crafted sword or mace?

or it doesnt matter

?

[keen belfry]

dont matter

[eternal hound]

I Feel like this went well

+10 magisters

[sterile dune]

Enh doinf 131m

U got beaten by the better sinfle target spec

Or was this aoe?

[eternal hound]

This was the overall

Also ST spec?

[sterile dune]

Yeha i think enh is more ST?

An ele sham is more aoe?

No

?

[eternal hound]

....I guess?

Last time I played enhance you has okay of both

Meanwhile ele had zero ST and all aoe

[prisma lantern]

Enhance pops off every time I see them hit a big pack with CDs.

I think no one really knows how good they are, but I've seen em do 300k AoE.

[loud blaze]

can someone remind me what slots we want for tier?

[sterile dune]

Does ambush build work with trickster or is it complete meme? It feels so meme

[glass mortar]

its not good for either hero talent tree

[sterile dune]

Figured

But audacity is fine for me

[noble moon]

everything bar boots

[sterile dune]

Dead talent point but it allows me to get a really good aoe buiks

I wanna see if I can make my aoe build cook more with trickster

It seems to have aome nice utilit

[long depot]

Wowhead says shoulder, chest, gloves, legs

[glass mortar]

boots arent a tier slot

[noble moon]

are they not

oopsie

[loud blaze]

okay, that works. I'm trying to figure what to spend champ crests on

[hoary mountain]

Hey stupid question. I picked up the vessel of Tortured souls last night and before Wednesday, It was a massive dmg increase for me but now that I sim it, it's worse than my veteran trinkets which are Sapling of Dawn root and Kroluk's warbanner. Did they change something on Wednesday patch?

[near rock]

simc was updated to correctly sim it

thats it

[hoary mountain]

ah right

[upper hawk]

can i get a full list of all the things simc is currently simming incorrectly?

[prisma lantern]

More specifically it no longer assumes you pick up every soul.

[long depot]

What does yalls single target dmg look like on sim?

[near rock]

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues

[hoary mountain]

guess that makes sense. I guess atleast it's 263 itm level for upgrading other trinkets

[upper hawk]

that's a big list

[near rock]

like 90k

[glass mortar]

64k

[long depot]

Whats your gear and Ilvl????

[glass mortar]

i was 252 ilvl the last time i simmed tho

havent simmed in 5 ilvl or so

[near rock]

267ilvl 4pc

only done like 8 keys so far, mostly from mythic and heroic raid

[timid idol]

is the fastest way to lvl this xpac really delves

ive seen multiple people say ts and i cannot belive its faster than just playing tank and qing dungeons

[frail veldt]

yeah

questing is very fast too though

I think the current routes are doing 2 and a half hours usually

[noble moon]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[jolly geyser]

I logged my ret the other day, was 82 when I logged off. wasnt long

tbf I got 20% boost

tw next week

[timid idol]

alright

how do it work doe

do i just spam like

lvl 2 delve or

[jolly geyser]

do the delve quests and do them

[timid idol]

or maybe i just do quests fk it delves are cancer as non rogue

[frail veldt]

yeah thats only 8 though doesnt get you to 80

delves are better on non rogue lol

[jolly geyser]

also Timewanking next week

[noble moon]

there was something about pulling all the mobs in void delve and killing all the adds then resetting and going again

[timid idol]

why? have they added anti invis to delves too?

[frail veldt]

no rogue just sucks

I did it as disc

[timid idol]

oh yea

[noble moon]

but has to be on a certain story

[frail veldt]

shadow word pain practically 100-0s a mob

[jolly geyser]

I do 11's fine, just gotta think

[noble moon]

set valeera as healer
misdirect her for 1 hour
???
Profit

[timid idol]

but i die of boredom killing packs in delves so i usually just stealth past 99% of combat

and only do essentials

at least thats how i did it in tww

[frail veldt]

slow

[noble moon]

same as any dps

[frail veldt]

not really

[jolly geyser]

my valeera is almost 50 thou

[frail veldt]

some dps can kill mobs faster

boomy walks through delves like cake

shadow was very easy too

didnt even stop holding W til the end

[jolly geyser]

I remember ret being whatever

[timid idol]

im torn between ww devo and ret

[frail veldt]

yeah rets pretty eh

[timid idol]

devo is braindead but the animations are fun

[jolly geyser]

now its prolly waiting for ashes

[cinder relic]

Its for sure not in practice

[timid idol]

wdym

[craggy barn]

clipping or no clipping ur disintegrates, positiong to get mass on certain bosses

sheug

[cinder relic]

Oh do you mean evoker?

or dh

[craggy barn]

i assumed devoker lol

[frail veldt]

same lol

[timid idol]

i meant devourer lol

mb

i have no clue how people call devourer dh

[craggy barn]

vore

[timid idol]

so i just said devo

[craggy barn]

ddh

[timid idol]

[frail veldt]

vour

[jolly geyser]

voreussy

[cinder relic]

devourer is "easy" on a dummyu

[mystic berry]

devh

[timid idol]

developer hunter

thats my spec

[frail veldt]

where does it fall relative to the other specs

[cinder relic]

but playing it properly in practice isn't easy

[frail veldt]

is it harder than average

[timid idol]

if blizzard doesnt fix outlaw

[frail veldt]

or easier than average

[timid idol]

fr?

[frail veldt]

thats true of the game as a whole

[timid idol]

like the biggest minmax i see is keeping the soul thingies in and out of forms

the smuggle thing

[cinder relic]

its a cooldown cycle type spec

[prisma lantern]

Devo pretty easy mechanically. A decent amount of depth in ramping and dumping properly.

[timid idol]

otherwise ts seems super easy

[frail veldt]

I think its easier than other specs yeah

[prisma lantern]

It's similar to old-school Sub with swinging cooldown windows

[jolly geyser]

devo dh is= dvh

[frail veldt]

who made that acronym

[jolly geyser]

forsen

[frail veldt]

de vourer hunter

?

[jolly geyser]

me just now

[frail veldt]

what

0/10

[craggy barn]

dedehu

[frail veldt]

devohunter

[jolly geyser]

ddh

[craggy barn]

ddr

[frail veldt]

ddh is better

[mystic berry]

hunt the rogue dev

[noble moon]

what a name

[timid idol]

there is no rogue dev

[jolly geyser]

or just say vore did a lot of dmg that pack

[timid idol]

nobody plays current outlaw after playing tww and thinks it feels good

lol

[craggy barn]

if this is the tuning we get, tww should never have gone away and we shouldve just gotten big

giga ranged op bullshit

[timid idol]

unironically

[craggy barn]

why cant outlaw be cracked

[jolly geyser]

cant escape the bajs

[timid idol]

blizzard still has ptsd

from bfa

[quartz magnet]

is it stupid to craft a ring with myth crest this week? ive already crafted a main hand, and i got our bis ring from 2nd boss on hc. Its a ~1.4k dps gain according to sim

[hybrid zealot]

bone spike was peak outlaw

[noble moon]

thats a take

[wintry solar]

it hurts

[craggy barn]

oof

[jolly geyser]

my brother in christ

[frail veldt]

no one plays it

[timid idol]

i have 21 and it still feels bad

[frail veldt]

waste of dev time

[timid idol]

when i dont have ar

idfk

[frail veldt]

across pve/pvp combined I think its probably the least played spec

[timid idol]

i tasted outlaw with perma ar

i cannot go back

taking it away from me is like bringing slavery back

[frail veldt]

I mean really from a leadership perspective why would you give resources to its design

[timid idol]

after giving everyone freedom

[jolly geyser]

[wintry solar]

blizzard doesnt know how outlaw does damage

[craggy barn]

god i hate how much energy using defensives costs

[jolly geyser]

should be 0 energy

[vivid vessel]

only one melee bro

[craggy barn]

we use so much resources for utility and defensives

[vivid vessel]

this is such a meme tier

[craggy quiver]

Anyone have a working focus marker macro thingy

[glass mortar]

look at all that green

[craggy barn]

are they on paladins now

[jolly geyser]

We need a ranged tank zac

[glass mortar]

just need monks to be better

[vivid vessel]

yes paladin

[glass mortar]

maybe we can get a 90% green raid

[craggy barn]

wonder what the last tuning will be lol

we have 1 more right

[glass mortar]

all melee dps ranged buffed by 5 yards

[jolly geyser]

I hope they tune all classes before last boss

[serene urchin]

is the 4% in yet btw

[prisma lantern]

3% buff to RDPS specs.

[glass mortar]

[craggy barn]

nerf udk

[frail veldt]

Im surprised theyre gona tune during the race

dont they n ormally not?

[craggy barn]

they announced 3 tunings

ee didnt get them all yet right

[timid idol]

when is the next tuning

hopefuly tomorrow

[proven ocean]

Dh guy not havoc?

Cockastation dh ye?

[timid idol]

the best time to buff outlaw was yesterday, the second best time is today - sun tzu

[vivid vessel]

ranged dh ye

[shut lichen]

why backslip when u can throw a star at some mfers

[vivid vessel]

all that for revvezz to top

easy enopugh for the melee gang

[shut lichen]

Revvez the goat

[timid idol]

is that arms

[tired wolf]

can you grapple to the top of the wind part in skyreach

[timid idol]

and skip everything?

no

pretty sure

but u can skip half of it

[wintry solar]

yeah

[timid idol]

how, i failed it every time

but maybe im nob

[wintry solar]

there was a video posted the other day

[timid idol]

[wintry solar]

you could prolly find it no problem

[glass mortar]

as soon as u get around the wall u can grapple to the top of the ramp

[mystic berry]

4 (four) marksman

[glass mortar]

just dont get cycloned

[vivid vessel]

https://www.twitch.tv/zac__________________/clip/ProudShinyLaptopNerfBlueBlaster-mSdGallNzrcMwnQn

you can but you have to play pangolin

see how it only works cause we are all pangolin

[wintry solar]

oh yeah I forgot to mention that part

[stable sigil]

Anyone felt like Arcui (spesifically bars) have gotten laggy? My blade flurry bar breaks sometimes

[glass mortar]

does this work without the shaman triggering the inside bird?

does it get triggered by u guys?

or does it just shoot at random

[vivid vessel]

no its on a cd

[glass mortar]

ah kk

[vivid vessel]

all birds are on a cd

just have to wait for this tornado

melee friendly boss

[wintry solar]

you got some floor on your mechanics

[vivid vessel]

also its kinda cringe how all these guilds have better weak auras than us now

cause doing these things is annoying/ has to legit be manually coded things

the difference between the top 2 guilds addons and the rest of the world increased so much

while blizzard tried to delete addons

[prisma lantern]

It's almost like the guilds with professional devs on staff suddenly have a huge advantage.

Weird.

[glass mortar]

well wasnt their stated goal to increase the gap top guilds have over the average player?

i thought thats why they did all the addon stuffs

[vivid vessel]

[glass mortar]

its ok before after the race theyd just release all this stuff to the public via WA

now im sure theyll do the same

[shut lichen]

tbf ur always going to have a gap if u have capital (both human and monetary) over ur competition

[glass mortar]

ull just need to download and install 15 additional addons

to get it all working

[jolly geyser]

Im starting to hate rwf ngl

[cinder relic]

starting?

[jolly geyser]

its brewing, im slow to get angry Guy

[vivid vessel]

i like race

[shut lichen]

best time was 20 yrs ago

2nd best time is now

[mystic berry]

Blizzard tried to delete addons, it created weakauras inequality

[shut lichen]

type shit

[mystic berry]

[jolly geyser]

wod last time it was nice

[shut lichen]

I love the race because it's nice to watch better people play the game

[prisma lantern]

I like the race. But the way Blizzard handles it is exhausting.

[glass mortar]

blizzard must like the race

or think its a financial boon either or

[shut lichen]

blizz handles it?

u mean like the buffs and nerfs they do during?

[glass mortar]

i mean blizzard is in pretty close communcation at almost all times of the race

like directly with employees for the top guilds

[vivid vessel]

rahter that they dont do

[glass mortar]

all the addons and strats and cheeses they use

[jolly geyser]

Im not watching people play wow that I do all day, if I watch all day someday someone please activate my dead cancer cells

[vivid vessel]

they avoid tuning around race

always pretty annoying

[glass mortar]

they verify with a literal blizzard employee before they do them to not get in trouble

they also definitly have someone dedicated at blizzard even late nights to keep an eye on the race incase

like remember nzoth?

liquid doing a scuffed strat not blizzard approved

then even tho it was like 11 PM PST or something blizzard globally despawned nzoth

[vivid vessel]

echo on sylvanas

[glass mortar]

when they were about to kill it

[vivid vessel]

they fixed it mid pull aswell

[glass mortar]

they put actual company resources directly into the race

its not just nerfs and buffs

[jolly geyser]

I watch the kill vids,but watching the stream. idk

[shut lichen]

well since it's no longer a youtube montage of their world first kills

[hasty warren]

what is current gamr version ?

[prisma lantern]

Yeah 100%.

The way Blizzard deals with the race makes the game worse imo.

[hasty warren]

12.0.5 ?

[glass mortar]

idk i enjoy it

and im sure most casuals do also

its fun watching people good at the game go ham

i prefer classic races tho cause u always know the result will be over in a few hours

im sure id hate the race if i raided on the level of zac or guy

[shut lichen]

they kinda have to have a hand in it due to how much of influence it has

[glass mortar]

where the bosses u might see in the first 3 weeks is directly effected by the race

but for the guilds i raid in its all irrelevant anyway we arent killing any serious bosses with race tuning

barely even look at mythic outside the freebies until its long over anyway

[jolly geyser]

race tuning is the prob,tune during race

would be funny

[shut lichen]

they have done sometimes

but it's for like actual outliers

[glass mortar]

no

thats next patch

its 12.0

idk if they throw a 12.0.3 or something on their when they do ptr changes that go live but if not should just be 12.0

[jolly geyser]

I just got some chest from next raid

no trinket

[shut lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/krill-issue-skill-issue-krill-issue-gif-25572478

[jolly geyser]

ye

[shut lichen]

got a dagger from this raid xd

well it's TW next week so 2nd time's the charm

[jolly geyser]

that raid is out next week no?

or was it 2

[shut lichen]

next week

ngl that soak and divine shield overlap is disgusting

[vivid vessel]

very melee freindly

when you are gonna pull up on that boss with half your raid being melee

gl bud

[shut lichen]

ego check uptime

[jolly geyser]

when ranged unfriendly raids

[balmy topaz]

Our damage still feels sub par

[shut lichen]

can there even be a thing

[vivid vessel]

you mean the 4% aura buff didnt help ?

[shut lichen]

unless they got a disrupting shout like every 2 secs

[mystic berry]

since there is no rogue in the rwf, can we get actual tuning now? It wont impact the teams

[vivid vessel]

whtadhelly

[prisma lantern]

How do you even make a ranged unfriendly raid? 😂

Like.

Anything that's alright for melee, range can stand in melee.

[shut lichen]

it'd have to punish casting

but even then

[glass mortar]

boss where a swirly spawns under u then spikes u 1 second later exactly every 4 seconds

[shut lichen]

u got BM and shit

[glass mortar]

😏

[jolly geyser]

I kinda want blizz just heavy nerf stuff rn and buff others to equal mid race

[glass mortar]

for the entire fight

[prisma lantern]

Boss randomly kicks entire raid. 😂

[glass mortar]

!!!

the raid wide aoe is also an interupt

[jolly geyser]

ulduar had that,cast

[mystic berry]

Just like, tune ranged to do less damage than melee, its that easy, melee have higher downtime so it evens out

[cyan spruce]

do we still not use ambush in opener?

[shut lichen]

not sure that actually solves anything

[glass mortar]

take ambush off all ur bars

[shut lichen]

unless u tune melee like giga over ranged

[cyan spruce]

ye i thought so

[prisma lantern]

No, see that's not how it works. Allocating a power budget to utility and range. Blizzard prefers to just make melee mediocre unless the class is otherwise busted.

[jolly geyser]

need to make if you move you die out of range for range

or if you attack in boss in certain range you get dot

[prisma lantern]

Rotating LoS terrain.

[shut lichen]

honestly the solution is a lot more simple

just give back the tiny bit of extra melee range we all used to have

[glass mortar]

acroooooooo

[jolly geyser]

that makes too much sense

[glass mortar]

u guys do know its never coming back right

like if we would agotten it back

this would be the expac

[shut lichen]

ofc

[glass mortar]

acro made melee easier to play. and more fun

in basically every single piece of content

[wintry solar]

but they increased melee range baseline since we got it

[shut lichen]

but since we're just stating our ideas of a fantasy reality

[glass mortar]

this expac was almost entirely about simplifying and making the game more accesible

[shut lichen]

might as well

[glass mortar]

acro for melee does that in spades

its truly dead

[prisma lantern]

Or even like.

Make melee as a general rule tankier and more mobile...

[jolly geyser]

I dont feel anything wow wise tbh, I just hit stuff

[wintry solar]

I think they got increased NPC melee range confused with player melee range

thatd I'd believe

[shut lichen]

they'll always be some imbalance between ranged and melee tbh

[jolly geyser]

I tweeted if they can get someone with hands to play rogue, not much response

[glass mortar]

idk i dont like being passive aggressive with the devs its usually not a good way to get them to actually respond to ur feedback

but frankly whoever decided rogue needed to have aoe blind nixed

[kind kite]

How much are your sims in ST?

[balmy topaz]

I might just craft boots

[glass mortar]

im assuming its the same guy that did all our outlaw stuff but u never know

no excuses for them

they either hate us or have no idea how this class even functions

[jolly geyser]

I tried being nice since early betas

[glass mortar]

very very very silly

[jolly geyser]

wtf do I do

[shut lichen]

dawg wtf are these overlaps

[shut lichen]

that was egregious

like generally I assume whoever made that didn't realise that kidney shot and cheap shot aren't worth shit

[proven ocean]

Guys

Why cant we send voice notes here

Onlyvmsgs

Other servers i can

[shut lichen]

cause some people can't be trusted

[glass mortar]

u actually can send voice notes here but they decided only zac is allowed

rip

[shut lichen]

but only if he speaks in french

je voudrais un poisson

[proven ocean]

Zac isnt gonna send voice chat even if regular chat gets disabled

[shut lichen]

type shi

[glass mortar]

yea that was my point

[indigo token]

is it me or is algathar way nastier this season than it was in DF

the last boss sucks

[shut lichen]

i wonder if you'd send voice notes like u type Ross

[glass mortar]

15 different voice notes pop up in the chat

each one is zeross saying 4 words

[proven ocean]

Ye why not

[shut lichen]

holy based ngl

[proven ocean]

U havent been with me on voice chat were u?

[shut lichen]

no

[proven ocean]

Ask zac he will tell you