outlaw

[still matrix]

the intern pressed the wrong button

i wanna myth upgrade my wep

!!!!

[vivid vessel]

blizzard is trolling the race !!!

[random stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[still matrix]

NA advantage again

[fair iron]

wait! the intern is NA btw

[vivid vessel]

ye it actually is ryldd

this has never happened for eu

no cap

eu is never down more than 1 h

[still matrix]

go touch grass zac

[vivid vessel]

because they litteraly are supposed to test it before on na server ?

why do we even have a beta server

[random stirrup]

i sometimes think about if id rather be a day late to releases or suffer through 6 hour server maintenance half the time

[vivid vessel]

if its not used

[vivid vessel]

i prefer eu

because it happens during the night

aswell

you dont miss anything

[random stirrup]

oh ye that part is disgusting btw

[vivid vessel]

and you can wake up super early if you want

[random stirrup]

why does reset happen at 11am

[vivid vessel]

like i just woke up at 5 am

to play wow

how banger is that

NA pleb cant do that

[fair iron]

sounds like winning to me

[random stirrup]

honestly think i would too

[vivid vessel]

i mean

its legit better

our downtime is 1 h max also

na is like

5h

during prime gaming time

who tf would want to be na

• na downtime is rng time

eu its always 1 h

[random stirrup]

ya but eu fomo though

[fair iron]

can’t wait for dreamrift fomo on reset

[silver venture]

it says so on the launcher but servers still aint up

[vivid vessel]

also all my addons works on reset

[random stirrup]

ok i come eu

[pearl topaz]

In Australia the reset was like 12-13 hours ago

[keen belfry]

sup

[pearl topaz]

I like how people are all "play sub" as if its a different season and the alternatives are worth switching to for a much better position

[quaint mauve]

why ru slacking on keys

[keen belfry]

im not cuh

[quaint mauve]

refer to the list

[quaint mauve]

i used to look up to you.

[keen belfry]

ur new goat?

[still matrix]

EU left in the cold

[vivid vessel]

i swear they forgot to plug the servers back in

[quaint mauve]

theyre lucky my tank has work tomorrow

i still have 2 keys i need a 10 on

id be like top 5

[clear turtle]

so why does the sim say we use acuity of the rendorei but the guides all say we use janalais precision

[quaint mauve]

they went to bed b4 plugging them in

u gotta wait till tomorrow

[clear turtle]

like the sim on the rogue spreadsheet

[quaint needle]

i did it 🥲

[bright reef]

game just started updating, maybe they are up finally

[vivid vessel]

i swear its already up to date

oh you are right

[vivid vessel]

you lied

[bright reef]

i was hoping myself, didnt know

[vivid vessel]

i pressed "look for update" button

and it updated

[bright reef]

im sittting here since 3 hours

[vivid vessel]

but it turns out you can press look for update button

on cd

and it will update on cd

what a banger

you can keep updating

[bright reef]

next update started
eu servers dying

[next thunder]

man... this spec is cooked

so much apm for shit base damage when compared to something like a survival hunter

[frail veldt]

Is survival good rn?

I thought it was mm tier

[next thunder]

yeah its braindead and you easily get 40k+ crits wih one button wihtout building up combo points

[quaint mauve]

heard its better in M+ than mm

by my hunter

[eternal hound]

Bro

I got fucking dumbstered

I played so bad on that skyreach 4

[quaint mauve]

i know exaactly how u feel

[eternal hound]

DAMN

I was like "Should I play sub here"

[still matrix]

WHY IS EU NOT UP REEEEE

[eternal hound]

Nope I got fucking rolled holy shit

[violet swan]

[still matrix]

https://giphy.com/gifs/PixelBandits-legends-titanfall-apex-RHInHY2dInc6uMI2ET

ITS HAPPENING

[balmy topaz]

EU up?

[still matrix]

yes

[violet swan]

I'm in

[next thunder]

muh first + of the season lower than the tank at 250 ilvl lol

[violet swan]

it stuck on loading screen though....

[next thunder]

blizz needs to amp the base damage of dispatch or something by a flat 15% so we can be relevant

playing arcane / survival and then jumping back on outlaw is like night and day diff in effort

[still matrix]

THE LAG IS insane

HC Gaze in first vault

gg ez

[frail veldt]

I mean to be fair 51k overall at 250 is very low

[next thunder]

how much are u averaging in dps per run

this was just now at terrace too

[lucid sparrow]

what the actual fuck is this vault bro

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-reaction-reactions-meme-gif-8141100727479891642

[frail veldt]

Can checkout #1184888068264689756

Lot of heavy hitters in there so don't get too discouraged use it as inspiration

[next thunder]

ehhhh that's weird i swear i'm doing the rotation and errthing, i guess i gotta get the 4 set

[weary goblet]

https://giphy.com/gifs/stress-homelander-stresss-5Nle87WgNwDbsj3P4Y

[fallen zodiac]

anyone switched their alts to main because of 4 set?

[keen belfry]

im blasting wtih no 4pc

[tulip warren]

What I understand is that dagger in offhand is great? But then the question is is that dagger fine even though it got crap stats? or should I just take that tier helmet?

[keen belfry]

tier

[cinder relic]

This is genuinely a skill issue I feel

This is me in a nexus point rn

[fallen zodiac]

how many tier set?

also , whats the warrior's tier set?

[cinder relic]

we all have 4 piece yes

[wintry solar]

I don't

You said we all so I assume you meant me as well

[frail veldt]

all daggers are good in offhand but offhand ilvl is pretty low priority for our damage

its not a piece you care about

has lower prio on upgrades than just like mainslot gear

[wintry solar]

I worry about that last personally

[tulip warren]

aa thanks! 🙂

[balmy topaz]

What a shit vault

[cinder relic]

socket not a bad pick this week

no cap

Its like, legit the best week to take a socket

Silver linin

[balmy topaz]

True

[fallen zodiac]

I thought the crimson vial change was gonna be today

i guess i was mistaken

[balmy topaz]

Nope

.5

[frail veldt]

oh whatd they change

[next thunder]

i guess, i dont have any set and no gold to craft meta gear just wearing highest ilvls i have

[frail veldt]

I didnt even see a crimson vial change

is it big?

[frail veldt]

that was my overall at 220 nocap

sorry

[next thunder]

ehhh no way

[mighty pivot]

oh no... I have to actually choose

[cinder relic]

I mean outlaw is hard to play

Genuinely, even still

Lots of little mistakes u can make add up and will tank ur damage

[fallen zodiac]

they made it reset on kills

[frail veldt]

oh...

thats it?

thats nothing

is it still on gcd?

does it still cost energy?

[mighty pivot]

they made it reduce its cd on kill, not even reset. Any by spending a talent

[frail veldt]

LOL

thats just insulting

[mighty pivot]

and it's below Virulent Poisons too

[fallen zodiac]

is it possible to make Gravedigger Glow only when it has 6 stacks?

[dire rampart]

weren't they changing blind back

what happened

[frail veldt]

cant really do trigger stuff like that

[frail veldt]

0.5

[mighty pivot]

next patch

[frail veldt]

I think

[dire rampart]

[mighty pivot]

you see you hotfix it out, but patch it in way later

[dire rampart]

whens that

[mighty pivot]

2-3 weeks who knows really

[dire rampart]

🙂

thanks blizzard

[radiant kelp]

can we craft something now or?

[cinder relic]

I'd say crafting either a dagger or a sword, atp is fairly safe

You could technically wait for a mythic clear, or technically on your first vault but

[lucid sparrow]

any1 got a

instant target ur tank macro

for tricks

[frail veldt]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[radiant kelp]

got shit from vault

only a headpiece

[frail veldt]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[cinder relic]

First real vault

like next week

10s are so easy

U can easily fill up a vault

highroll a sword

then U can craft other stuff yk

[plucky wasp]

got gaze trinket on hc. Is it still BIS?

[balmy topaz]

It is but not far off

[sturdy tartan]

I’m going to have to do a key to check but I think this is about where I am too. No tier pieces.

I’ve been playing outlaw well since legion , I have no idea what’s wrong with me this xpac. I feel like I’m actually terrible at the class now and I don’t get it

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[river zenith]

do we know which are the best trinkets for m+ and which ones for raid?

[waxen scarab]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[next thunder]

by key, what do they mean, the pull?

[pearl topaz]

How fucked are we guys

Like should I expect to be carried through M+ and have my friends get annoyed

the aoe blind thing really is one of those "fuck you" things lol

like, i understand not tweaking damage suddenly. but was AOE blind going to make all the difference for us right now?

[inland acorn]

it means to not use rtb before key is put

[inland acorn]

We're getting aoe blind back in .5 patch

[pearl topaz]

thats what i mean

why not just put it back now

[inland acorn]

Too much work

Best we can do is hotfix aura nerf blade flurry again

[pearl topaz]

if it was a damage change on something then i completely get it, let the field as is until patch. but this really is not a gamechanger

[next thunder]

What are you guys using innstead of WA since the addon purge, you know for special trigger notifications

[pearl topaz]

lmao remember when we discovered blade flurry was hitting dead corpses and taking up the # count

fuck me

[inland acorn]

WA + ayije_cdm + bigwigs / littlewigs

[heavy shadow]

Chimaerus trinket not worth it right? Will probably take chest (for cata) or shoulders tier

[inland acorn]

I would sim, it's not THAT bad

But there are defo better options including the farmable trinket from skyreach

So ye probably chest or shoulders

If you have raid today, you might want to wait for reclears to fill slot

[cinder relic]

No for sure not

[heavy shadow]

Yeah that was the plan, 0 tier so far 🙁

[inland acorn]

Ah, unlucky

Can also try doing cheeky LFR to see if you can get any

[cinder relic]

I feel plenty competitive in guild keys rn

It's for sure not that bad

At least for now

• it's fun

[olive star]

ya my keys felt pretty competitive, did a bit less than devourer but still competitive

W outlaw

[trail galleon]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486090402275786873/drops.png

[waxen scarab]

is the pre key shenanigans working?

[cinder relic]

Needed that 8% buff

[vague cape]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[lucid sparrow]

numbing > atro in m+?

[cinder relic]

I'd say generally yes

[lucid sparrow]

do u have a macro to autocast tricks on tank

[fossil lintel]

Wtf Zac, I open raider.io and you're already at the top?

[proven ocean]

they're slacking

i think they just dont have a full team atm

back when we pushed with zac we had r1 day 1

[fossil lintel]

Didn't the EU stuff just came out like a few hours ago?

[fossil lintel]

Yeah yeah, I know you quit

Even though you're still here every day

[vivid vessel]

just did 3/4 keys with the gang

now im doing guild keys

so no more io

[junior coral]

i went way to hard today lol

good start to the season... 2364 io... 260 ilvl... and got 4 heroic bosses down

[hoary otter]

god bless m+

[static crescent]

opening twitch, seeing this, closing twitch with tear dropping from my eye

Still 5 hours away from playing m+, but apparently keys up to 10s are a yoke which is slightly dissapointing :X

why did i take a day off from work even pfft

[vivid vessel]

this is legit m0

everything dies insta

[static crescent]

+10 academy going now

not the best outlaw test platform

what the fuck, topped damage on first pull

outlaw broken good in m+ confirmed

[unkempt smelt]

stormarion assault is bugged? im not getting cache, same case last week

[hoary otter]

4% saved us

[static crescent]

holy fuck maybe il play outlaw after all this week to try it out, defo aint as good as he is but

that looks allright

unless hes playing with like 210ilvl friends in the 10s

[muted crest]

feels good in keys for now

[static crescent]

so zac has been lying to us all this time

[muted crest]

what a fraud

he just wanted to play sub

[radiant kelp]

lads for the weapon craft

should i wait to get enough myth

or you cant even craft it max

[vivid vessel]

i have 4p they dont, its also just low keys

we are used to that

[static crescent]

all lies

10 should be high enough to measure something even scaling seems weird

[haughty wigeon]

Spec damage doesn’t excuse spec flaws

[static crescent]

something

[haughty wigeon]

Prep is poop

Aces is poop

Also keys are so free

[static crescent]

Well it never stops scaling so

weekly vaults are free

[haughty wigeon]

I don’t think we’ll get into the meat of the season until way later

Ya but like

Freer than usual

[vivid vessel]

not really

[haughty wigeon]

Im already dumpstering tens

[vivid vessel]

when you get into high keys cd specs get cds every pack

when you dont

and it does a massive difference

[static crescent]

ye fair enough

But lets put it this way, seeing this going at 10s has me somewhat positively suprised

[haughty wigeon]

I mean sure I’m not gonna shit on it

[vivid vessel]

same

[haughty wigeon]

It’s very nice to see outlaw competitive in content that 99% of the player base does

Im very happy with how outlaw is for new players going into it

[static crescent]

Pitty if Zac is right, this also means that outlaw is less likely to see changes

[haughty wigeon]

That being said, my list of improvements is very minimal and I sure all outlaw players would agree

Aka kill prep

[static crescent]

becouse they will look at what 99% of the playerbase does, and see outlaws fine

and idk i aint gonna play prep that shits super shit

[haughty wigeon]

My point exactly

Super shit

Gladly take the 2% loss instead of playing around a button that fights the spec on a 4 min cd

[fallen zodiac]

when you get Catalyst Unbound. does it mean all your characters can loot Charges?

Or just your main?

[static crescent]

In raids and some amp encounters its a big loss but w/e

(I would assume)

[gloomy adder]

Zamn I got a 90 parse on hc chimaerus pugging

Can’t wait to see this 4% buff tonight

[thorny ice]

Jo, is this weapon cap? 😄

[river wing]

just the character, it's not account-wide

[zinc briar]

https://gyazo.com/ef09e0153bf8d1af51ca8fcb07670808

what should i take?

chest?

[waxen scarab]

ye or hand

[radiant kelp]

Zac

have you crafted anything yet?

[lapis beacon]

Is there any ST build where we can not take Prep?

[vivid vessel]

no

i wont craft till next week prolly

[lethal oak]

How are sub keys Zac?

[neon rapids]

what to enchant on chest

[obsidian karma]

hey, what is the best time to use something like Ranger-Captain trinket in the rotation?

[lavish siren]

This right? seen on wowhead^^
would be okk to craft ring or weap rn using hero crest atm**

[nova blaze]

i took it out and put a 2nd into talented killing, didnt really change my dmg when sim

[uncut stratus]

when tf did they add tumble weed animations to outlaw? I swear this spec has had both a flavor/fantasy identity crisis and rotation crisis since its inception

they want outlaw to be a pirate or old western shooter

i guess the term 'outlaw' more coincides with old western shooter but i feel like its always been more oriented towards pirate

[wintry solar]

Not since Legion

They actually started the pirate culling in Legion

[uncut stratus]

you sure? even one of the recent rogue sets from TWW was a pirate set

[wintry solar]

People who didn't play outlaw complained

[wintry solar]

I don't find that's indicative of anything tbh

[lapis beacon]

I've got a massive Yellow tricorn hat and a giant green feather, im a fkin pirate matey

[wintry solar]

I'm just sayin

[uncut stratus]

you just need some hard tack and a barrel of pickled cabbage

[lapis beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/the-sopranos-this-guy-silvio-dante-vito-vito-spatafore-gif-24638091

[wintry solar]

Gotten

[fallen zodiac]

are you 100% ?

[uncut stratus]

idk in my opinion its always been geared towards pirate shit, shooting a flintlock pistol, some of the rogue sets have been pirate-ish, using a cutlass for some of the attack animations...then suddenly i guess during Midnight they throw in some tumble-weeds blowing in the wind? now thats more of a old western shooter kinda thing

[wintry solar]

What fth

You know what that is right?

[uncut stratus]

yeah from a revolver, but everything else speaks pirate about outlaw imo

[wintry solar]

Look I don't like this stupid cowboy spaghetti western gunslinger shit either. It's very overdone imo

But dems da facts

If we could go full pirate that'd be the dream

My main mount is the dreadwake lol

[gloomy adder]

Mein gott es ist das uberschwert !! (??)

Is it good I have no idea

[icy hare]

Vessel been nerfed?

The sim has dropped off massively

[eternal solstice]

Ive got 232 chest and 220 rings, should i take chest if tier and buy the ring from jwc?

[wintry solar]

90% of my mog, I use different headpiece and back now

BFA had great sets

For outlaw

[waxen scarab]

guys

we craft dagger with myth?

[still matrix]

cheeky delve:

[wintry solar]

Hot

Can I have it?

[gloomy adder]

My armoury pic isn’t up to date for some reason but I have a cool looking mog with the monk tattoos chest from undermine, some forsaken heritage pieces and plunderlord hat

Pirates are epic

[wintry solar]

Truke

WtB Legion Classic

Skip WoD ofc

[lavish siren]

@wintry solar you pve, Do i craft sword over ring rn? using hero crest, or go ring and craft sword with mythic(if i even start doing mythics)

[wintry solar]

I crafted sword because I have no intention on rerolling spec AND I haven't been getting good luck with weps

I'm probably not a good example

[gloomy adder]

Maybe it was bugged on sim

[lavish siren]

i took chest over weap from vault and lowkey regretting it 😂 (not even a tier chest) currently rocking 250 fist weap and a 240 lfr dagger critmast/ versmast

[wintry solar]

Lul

[lavish siren]

i simmed my vault tho, chest came out on top

[wintry solar]

I haven't checked vault yet, if I get a wep I'm gonna cry

[lavish siren]

[tepid lagoon]

so are frost mages impossible to kill as outlaw? because it feels pretty impossible

[inland acorn]

Open as sub for dagger OH, problem solved

[noble moon]

and then also just spec sub and play sub

[wintry solar]

I'm not a bitch so no dagger offhand for me

Ty

We take that dps loss with pride

[lavish siren]

feels like it at times, they can outblink ur grapple + displace lol

[tepid lagoon]

dude literally blinked out of stun, rooted me, froze me, into polymorph, into root and then i died

[lavish siren]

i got another fist weap , starting not to trust these sims lol

[uncut stratus]

looks nice

[tepid lagoon]

and if i try to run, a mob aggros me and i cant go into stealth, then they mount up and just run me down because for some reason they arent in combat despite me being stuck in combat for 70 years

[wintry solar]

Outlaws kill condition is menacing + jackpot + kidney

So gl with that

[lavish siren]

i always try to save trinket for poly and cloak for that cheese up close stun

[tepid lagoon]

kk, im very new but man it just feels hopeless sometimes lmao

[wintry solar]

If outlaw was meant to have a dagger OH there'd be a legion artifact version of dagger Dreadblades

I don't make the rules, I just follow them

[lavish siren]

you're gonna make me say f this sim and put that fistweap on

not like ima go crazy in pve anyway😂

[wintry solar]

All Imma say is

No balls

[lavish siren]

https://tenor.com/view/hanma-yujiro-yujiro-laugh-yujiro-hanma-laugh-gif-25038383

[wintry solar]

Close your eyes and click accept, you got the rest of the season to fix yourself

I am, however, the demon on your shoulder

[wintry solar]

Just ksh and bounce tbh

[lavish siren]

done

[wintry solar]

Based

I knew you were cool

[lavish siren]

[wintry solar]

Gonna get my other rogue to 90 today

As God as my witness I WILL pump

[lavish siren]

can never go wrong with multi rogues

[wintry solar]

Never ever

[lavish siren]

can ignore that one subrogue tho

[lapis beacon]

Does cloak nullify that Sealed Chaos Urn's fear?

[lavish siren]

doesnt atleast in delves CoS didnt nullify , still got feared 😂

actually in lfr too

[lapis beacon]

lol rip, just got it from my bounty map drop, ty blizz

a nice heroic virtual paper weight

[lavish siren]

i dropped this! i dont see it on pins or on wowhead tierlist😂 cant tell if its good or not

atleast it simmed higher than my pvp trink😂

[lapis beacon]

i literally have that rn

veteran tho.. lol

[gloomy adder]

Just seems like a worse version of skyreach trinket no?

[river wing]

yea it is

[gloomy adder]

If it sims then rock it bruv

[river wing]

no it doesn't

it's like 1k below Solarflare on my sims I think

[gloomy adder]

I mean if it sims as his best trinket in his bag haha

[timid idol]

SO

what is the reason

for them fucking up bartender?

i seriously do not understand how low iq this company is

[brave lagoon]

The reason was rwf addons

[timid idol]

fun

[dire rampart]

this trinket got good uptime?

[lucid sparrow]

is the ace change rly a dps loss

[vivid vessel]

prolly ye

[plucky wasp]

wanted to ask the same. Got this from prey and it reads pretty good. Cannot find this one on bloodmallet

[river wing]

it'll cost another point, likely FaO or SummDisp 2/2 will have to go

[lucid sparrow]

no way we dont give up soh

for the point

[dire rampart]

yea couldn't see it anywhere

simming, shows no difference with renown trink which is maybe why

[heady gale]

guess we wanna craft wep if not raiding?

[dire rampart]

but max upgraded it might be better

[river wing]

SoH is already choice with FaO basically, so that'll be it

[brave lagoon]

Man I was glad to get pink parses but seeing it this low on the list hurts my soul

[dire rampart]

that 35k dps diff

[river wing]

45k

[dire rampart]

45**

both pink

[river wing]

ngl seeing a 64 still be 4k above
is also terrifying

[dire rampart]

4% buff!!

[timid idol]

so there is literally no workaround this bartender thing but remake my entire ui again?

are humans even working at blizzard?

or is it ai developed game

[brave lagoon]

Idk how badly affected bartender was but elvui bars got fixed pretty quickly yesterday and the hotfix came from a bartender dev...? Idk why he wouldn't hotfix his addon as well unless it got broke in a completely different way than elv bars were

[timid idol]

guess im playing without stealth until that one is fixed as well

not like it has any use anymore in this xpac

also i did a +6 and i topped dps vs arcane and ret

not the highest key ever but it felt decent

raid dps is still negative tho

[wintry solar]

How else do you open with a cheapshot?

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[static crescent]

How often catalysts drop? Can i just send it to 4 set by catalysting a champion

@vivid vessel

[hollow creek]

So how do we feel after buff ?? Looks pretty solid on zacs stream but he is not like us…

[brave lagoon]

Feelsl like nothing changed tbh

[gloomy adder]

What is this bullshit

Why can’t they just make it a single point talent again

[sonic sapphire]

!stats

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[brave lagoon]

That cmd is outdated

[sonic sapphire]

yeah i was thinking on that

[vivid vessel]

go 2 in 12 keys

didnt get any the first like

8 keys tho

[polar kelp]

I'm so glad our st isn't affected too much in m,+ build like last season....feels pretty good right now

[loud blaze]

@vivid vessel I got all purple parses last night in normal, thank you senpai.

[static crescent]

Roger, sending seems worth then

[vivid vessel]

it is ye

[polar kelp]

What are you guys doing in keys so far? I think pugs are just horrible week 1 but I'm gapping people by a lot....like 105k overall compared to 50k overall ....

Feels off

[noble moon]

sorry fellas

i killed outlaw

[hoary otter]

man, that 4% aura buff really helped us out

[gleaming reef]

Gaze of the Alnseer bis again?

I thought it was simming lower

[zenith sparrow]

is skyreach skip doable and can outlaw do it

last time it said no path and i died jumping

[proven ocean]

Yes it is doable

Did it in alpha tho

Or beta

Should still work

[river wing]

honestly outlaw doesn't even really need the skip

just sprint and double hook and that gets you up top risk-free

[fair ore]

I’ve been doing cleave lately and it feels great as well

[torn canopy]

Hey can you use daggers as outlaw in the offhand or does it have downsides / is it not recommended in general?

[craggy quiver]

No downsides actually better than slow off hand but not by much

[torn canopy]

Okey thanks

Is outlaw damage really that low right now? I dont know what to play because Im not the biggest fan of sub

[quaint sable]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.

It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.

[unkempt dew]

How does outlaw preform in M+?

[light kernel]

so which 2 items should i craft and put emblemishments considering i wont raid

1h weap and whats 2nd slot

[ashen oracle]

Yo i’m still wondering if I’m playing outlaw/sin/sub this season. Can you guys help me out ?

I’m usually a Sin player but I feel like it will be bad in M+ and I don’t want to swap between 2 specs for M+/Raid. I already crafted a spark dagger cuz I thought we would have to play sub, how bad is it if I would swap to Outlaw ?

[keen belfry]

Wym how bad?

[fickle relic]

yo, heroic tier set pants, or heart of wind?

[normal forge]

I'm rerolling to sub

[keen belfry]

Hero tier

[river wing]

set, heart is actually not great according to latest sims

[pulsar hull]

Unless I’m doing something wildly wrong (which I know I’m no legend by any means) I get smoked in dps by basically every other class in M+

Anyone dominate dps meters as outlaw in M+?

If so, some help would be awesome

[keen belfry]

Takes time cuh

[fickle relic]

buffs when?

[timid idol]

dps down upgrade

[fickle relic]

mastery smh...

[timid idol]

:)

this is with haste pot btw

[fickle relic]

i guess i'm lucky to have 20% without one

[charred adder]

nightmare prey is such a bad time

[karmic gust]

I gave up doing those for now i perma die to the dot

[quick ridge]

Oh? How bad? Would you describe it as… nightmarish?

[karmic gust]

i just spam delves for vault

[charred adder]

https://tenor.com/view/dua-lipa-oh-wow-smirk-gif-1637128731293946850

[still matrix]

crafted wep and boots - we out here now

[charred adder]

just finished one the hunting part took longer than the actual fight

really doesnt seem worth the effort for a champion piece of gear

[gloomy adder]

Really? What ilvl? I thought they’re a piece of piss

Rubbish when someone ganks you and you lose all your crystal juice though but it sure gets the heart going

[river wing]

shoot critters whenever Astalor gets uppity

remind him that his bloodlust keeps getting rabbits killed

[gloomy adder]

It takes me like 7min to do one

[charred adder]

only 246 which might be the issue but since the gear it awards is also 246 i dont think so

[gloomy adder]

7min for a 5k dawn crystal bosh

[blissful idol]

can u do delve for chance of tier set?

is that true?

[vivid vessel]

if you already have 4 set

maybe

just do keys thjo

[blissful idol]

i am missing 1 charge basically or 1 tier piece

i dont have it yet

[vivid vessel]

cant do that

[light kernel]

zac what would u craft if u were to play outlaw in raid?

[vivid vessel]

idk

i would ask my raid leader

about what we do this week

[light kernel]

what if u were raid leader 😮

[vivid vessel]

if we do 3 bosses

[lime lake]

then his raid leader would realize hes playing outlaw

not a good idea

[vivid vessel]

and im attrib on that weapon

cause other agi specs are crafting weapons

i wont craft a weapon

up till maybe week 2

[winter falcon]

Raiding as outlaw hurts my soul. Working my ass off to hit like a wet noodle

[vivid vessel]

but im not in the same type of guild as you are prolly

so idk how relevant it is

[light kernel]

i dont raid

so ill go sword prolly

and boots ?

idk

or actually craft both sword and dagger?

[unique fulcrum]

if i can get 4 piece i can just send catalyst, right

[gleaming reef]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[balmy topaz]

Zac

How troll is it

To craft a dagger Off hand

[keen belfry]

i was debating doing that

[balmy topaz]

Ye

Honestly

[light kernel]

did u guys craft sword 285?

[balmy topaz]

I did

[keen belfry]

ye

[light kernel]

i thought also dagger

[keen belfry]

cuz when u get other dagger u can just upgrade to 289 then

[light kernel]

idk

[balmy topaz]

Ye

[keen belfry]

this is me rn @balmy topaz

0pc gaming??

[balmy topaz]

This is me

I am LFR 4 set gaming

[ashen void]

i love to jackpot

[vivid vessel]

2nd boss dagger

2nd boss killable without gear

dagger only rogue loot

you soaking dagger

me think you kill boss before

maybe you kill it twice even

also dont craft dagger as outalw bnoob

[winter falcon]

What addon is that?

[keen belfry]

chonky character sheet

[fickle urchin]

@vivid vessel can u help me plx, read whisper

[fading igloo]

Damn where do I get the Myth crests from for recraft, just spam M+?

[glass anvil]

when we get fourset, do we wanna send Blade rush before or after ADR?

[crimson scarab]

a question for ppl who use ayije cdm, does the the RTB buff sometimes just dissapear from the buff section in the center of the UI?

its still not expired, but for some reason it just does not appear

[balmy topaz]

Is it even worth

Crafting this week

[thin fiber]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[cinder relic]

Still no

Unless a boss is killable this week

[vivid vessel]

not for me

foir you ?

maybe

it all depends

[inland acorn]

After adr

[unique fulcrum]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[unkempt dew]

Is it okay if I craft a dagger if I don’t raid?

[normal quail]

why does panda outlaw srsly go kinda hard

[formal pawn]

Careful with recrafting, apparently there’s a bug where it eats your crests

[vivid vessel]

miam

[prisma lantern]

Which one of you degens is this?

Killing it. 😂

[vivid vessel]

its me

also this is point

not damage

this means litterlay nothign

[prisma lantern]

We take that. Making us look good, still.

[keen belfry]

hes ass bro

[prisma lantern]

Says right there he's OL. 😅

[keen belfry]

i mean ass as in ass cheeks

[prisma lantern]

Lol I know, bad joke.

Rogue feels strong in keys early for sure. Both ol & sub. Really miss aoe blind though.

[mystic berry]

I got mogged by a devourer pulling 100k+ overall and I still havent recovered, the only key I did yesterday.

[radiant kelp]

stat should be crit haste

on the crafts?

[mystic berry]

Yea

[gray mortar]

How bad is trickster compared to fatebound in keys?

[bold patio]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quiet ore]

Me, every dungeon, crying that I can't reliably match my mm hunter friend and don't have an AoE stop anymore (I'm sure blizz feels great about removing it for the 8 weeks at the start of the season only, just to twist the knife)

[gray mortar]

Sick, I will keep blasting on Sub just for 1 hr tricks lmao

[fickle relic]

completly understandable 🙁

[proven ocean]

WTF OITLAW

fake news

Ah

Its points

[proven ocean]

[waxen scarab]

off piece shoulder or head?

[eternal hound]

Hey guys what buff do we want in Academy?

[mystic berry]

what set pieces do we actually want for the 4?

I dont think there is a single crit haste piece

chest, shoulder, legs and ?

[keen belfry]

brb

[copper rover]

should i get Gaze of the Alnseer from the vault at veteran or a tierset chest and champion sims are nearly the same but in the long term?

[frigid pelican]

hands have crit haste

[keen belfry]

getting 4pc is good cuz u can unlock tier just by doing content

[copper rover]

isnt the trinket really really good and hard to get because everyone is rolling for it?

[ebon wraith]

What's the go to embellishment ?

[keen belfry]

veteran tho idk, its as good as 2 other trinkets

[copper rover]

yeah champion tier would be a nobrainer but veteran sucks. Only thought of getting it because its so contested but idk the procrate and if it really keeps up for losing so much agi at the beginning because it has mastery

[fathom bramble]

probably haste if your gear isn't fully in order yet

if you have sufficient haste(22%+), then crit

[polar niche]

hell oguys

are you going to craft the weapon today?

[eternal hound]

Sure

If I had the crests

[polar niche]

or sub one?

[waxen scarab]

i crafted this am i cooked?

[lime lake]

[light kernel]

Which emblemishment is the best for m+

[gaunt phoenix]

The weapon embellishments (darkmoon hunt or darkmoon void) are a bit ahead of the rest

[light kernel]

With what do i pair hunt

Or its 2x

[gaunt phoenix]

for my sim void+hunt was slightly ahead

[light kernel]

Thats only weap emblem?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah

[light kernel]

So i have to craft dagger also

[gaunt phoenix]

for my gear dagger is the best upgrade but it might not be for everyone

[waxen scarab]

@gaunt phoenix this bad?

[gaunt phoenix]

dagger (hunt) vs random leather item like boots (arcanoweave) vs ring or neck (prismatic)

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not great

[light kernel]

So what should be my 2nd craft after sword wuth hunt emblem

[waxen scarab]

playable?

[fair charm]

Anything is playable…

[gaunt phoenix]

use top gear to add these to your inventory and sim your next upgrade

but for me it's dagger

[fair charm]

That extra 125 damage per second gonna break you!

[light kernel]

1x hunt and 1x arcanoweave works?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, you craft a main hand, and then your next upgrade could be any of those

[keen belfry]

i need solo to tell me what to crat

[lime lake]

crat what your heart tells you

[keen belfry]

crat

isnt a crafted dagger just going to be bis cuz the embelly strong

[fathom bramble]

crafted dagger is really good especially for that fact that there is no good dagger in raid

you would be gambling on vault forever

and unless you have a good MH from raid it probably doesn't make sense to open as sub/sin \

[keen belfry]

yeah i think eventually i will replace this outlaw sword but i dont think offhand dagger will ever be replaced for any spec?

these embellys seem good

[fathom bramble]

I think it is just bis yeah

[keen belfry]

like surely the embelly is better than 3 ilvl offhand

[fathom bramble]

and being a dagger is better than 33 ilvl offhand 🙂

[light kernel]

M+ vault can give good dagger

[keen belfry]

yes but u should open as outlaw for m+ sword

[fathom bramble]

that's what I meant by gambling on vault forever

it's the only source of a decent dagger if you don't craft one

and dagger is bis

and you probably want to open as law for a sword

[light kernel]

So go for dagger 2nd craft ?

[vivid vessel]

i think for early prog its troll tho

[fathom bramble]

it's going to be the best option for most players imo

like if you aren't seeing mythic very soon it is just super good

[keen belfry]

y tho zac?

[quaint mauve]

yeah i already crafted a dagger

[frail veldt]

Dagger is bis but dagger ilvl is meh

So how much does it matter

[fathom bramble]

very near pants ilvl

what else would you craft

[frail veldt]

I think people just need to sim themselves

But yeah I guess there's not that many options

[keen belfry]

i just feel like i will basically never replace a crafted dagger

which is kinda how i view crafts at my WR

its a easy waste of crests for guilds that are high end but not for most of us

[frail veldt]

Yeah craft what is most permanent

I usually do it on jewelry if I know a specific secondary stat doesn't exist

Esp with our haste reqs

[keen belfry]

biggest upgrade is fake for crafting to me, most permanent isbis

yeah

[unique fulcrum]

does outlaw have the worst set this tier or am i biased

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not great

[low glade]

like, conceptually or numerically?

[unique fulcrum]

both

[low glade]

i think warlock tier is much worse numerically

[mystic berry]

conceptually its bland af

[low glade]

their 2p is like barely .5%

[mystic berry]

Blade rush is a boring button tbh

They could have made killing spree not bad with the tier set

but nah, that skill is cursed

[formal thunder]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[quaint mauve]

we have a lot of good jewelry options this season tho ngl

[inland acorn]

Is it just me tripping, or cheat death just sometimes decides not to proc, even though it's not on cd ?

[mystic berry]

It might proc and you instantly still die after

[fathom bramble]

interestingly it seems like dagger has a high chance of hitting both these metrics

[inland acorn]

That would put it on cd though

[proven ocean]

If u take hit more than ur max hp u die

Even through cheat

[inland acorn]

I know that part

But i died to like small bleeds

like 40k tick

twice

[mystic berry]

and no debuff?

[inland acorn]

No debuff

[keen belfry]

have u crafted one yet

[fathom bramble]

is there a chance cheat was on cd at the time of death and came back right after you died?

[inland acorn]

No

[proven ocean]

Cheat death lasts like

3 seconds

Or something

Not infinite

[inland acorn]

Ye but if it proced i would seen debuff

It just didnt proc

[proven ocean]

I have noticed such an issue before tho

Just wasn’t too sure

[inland acorn]

And i bleed out

[fathom bramble]

the only obvious explanation would be that specific debuff is flagged to bypass immunites/death prevention

which seems insane so idk

[proven ocean]

As u usually just play elusiveness

Nah i think it does bypass cheat death

[inland acorn]

I think i might have log of run to check later, so i'll double check

But i'm like 99% sure it wasnt on cd

[proven ocean]

Its definitely a bug that exists

[inland acorn]

and it was small dmg tick

[proven ocean]

Ive noticed it before

[untold yarrow]

is zacussy finally going to do prog on outlaw

[proven ocean]

I think i talked about it in the past @inland acorn

[fathom bramble]

no

I haven't crafted or used a single hero/myth crest

crafting double weapon feels stupid but the more I look at it the more it makes sense

[keen belfry]

i agree

[fathom bramble]

if 3rd boss is really hard it shoots straight to making the most sense

for me

[wicked kestrel]

is outlaw outperforming sub in keys?

[keen belfry]

in random pug 10s it shuold yeah

unknown for real keys

[gaunt phoenix]

nice weekly

[vivid vessel]

waht dehelyl is that bro

[keen belfry]

holy moly

[vivid vessel]

can you trade?

open trade windwo

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[keen belfry]

why hasnt solo chimmed in on double craft weapons

is he too offline rn?

[gaunt phoenix]

im crafting double weapon

am i supposed to tell the world

[keen belfry]

an @ here would do

yes

[raven gust]

I double crafted weapons because I thought I was gonna play Sub until I realized piracy was the way.

Dagger first, then sword.

[fathom holly]

yes you are our dad

[proven ocean]

It has no agility tho…..

[vivid vessel]

its a ring bro

[wicked kestrel]

wwhat do you mean by this?

[gaunt phoenix]

he was going to play sub but saw the light that is outlaw

[raven gust]

Exactly this ^^

[keen belfry]

guys

what the fuck is valeera doing

where is she going?

[fervent garden]

RUN AWAY!

[fossil lintel]

pathing

[glass mortar]

i mean do u not SEE the big aoe on the ground?

its called dodging awang

maybe if players did it more often raiding wouldnt be so hard

i wish my raiders acted like alleria (fucked off 2 miles away in a direct line from any aoe swirly on the ground regardless of its size or pathing issues)

[jolly geyser]

she pulled another elite pack while I was fighting one

[glass mortar]

i swear this code is new i dont remember her doing this the first night i ramped up my delves last week

maybe someone overadjusted her dodging so she wouldnt die to aoes like brann

'its... definitly an issue tho

[uncut ginkgo]

I just play tricksters in delves and tricks her and zzzzz

[lime lake]

maybe its not ai

[fervent garden]

tbh she's been pulling groups since around T7

[lime lake]

its an intern playing valeera

[fossil lintel]

idk what you on about, that was obviously the most optimal path for her to get to the mobs as per the a* algorithm

[jolly geyser]

its hurts fighting 2 elite packs

the fighting pit one

[uncut ginkgo]

doesnt hurt taking 0 dmg cause shes tanking everything in sight

[glass mortar]

any double elite pack pull in an 11 is a death sentence

i guess i could play trickster but honestly id rather die occasionally to pulling threat off her then play that dog hero tree

🥹

[jolly geyser]

ye

[uncut ginkgo]

the price we pay lol

[glass mortar]

mhm

[raven gust]

Valeera has crackhead energy most of the time and takes herself on a whimsical journey to pull more mobs.

[uncut ginkgo]

she had beef with the hara delve yesterday

chain pulled all the way to the boss area

[fossil lintel]

i can fix her

[uncut ginkgo]

and got ambushed by null along the way, was good times

[raven gust]

That’s truck drivin’.

[glass mortar]

my favorite is when as shes pulling more elites while ur already fighting 1 and a pack her voice line "be bolder" goes off

[jolly geyser]

that null asshole always invades during packs

[uncut ginkgo]

oh he came during a double nemesis pack

[glass mortar]

like ok my QUEEN dies immediately

[uncut ginkgo]

he knew what he was doing

[jolly geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-stressed-mad-angry-holy-gif-13747030767264152078

[uncut ginkgo]

cept she took it like a champ and didnt die

[glass mortar]

i swear she doesnt even take auto damage in delves lol

[uncut ginkgo]

I know

[glass mortar]

i never see her hp move. only in the nemisis delve

[uncut ginkgo]

ya

[glass mortar]

she must have a custom template in there or something

[uncut ginkgo]

tried cheesing null fight with her tanking, no dice lol

[fervent garden]

anyone doing 11's consistanly yet? like i'm on 10 but got the shit beat out me at il250.

[uncut ginkgo]

oh yea

[fervent garden]

with v as a tank?

[uncut ginkgo]

newp healer

[fervent garden]

ok

[glass mortar]

i do 11s

[uncut ginkgo]

but I play tricks

[glass mortar]

it is painful and difficult and you need to be very careful if ur not playing trickster for perma tricks

[uncut ginkgo]

and just tricks her and ezmode them

[glass mortar]

but managable with no deaths

im currently 252 ilvl

[fervent garden]

copy

[uncut ginkgo]

use edict and either mandate or spire

usually can get her to burst high 130k-150k on big pulls

[jolly geyser]

I use the dagger and spire

[uncut ginkgo]

edict just gives her so much dmg

[jolly geyser]

gotta try it tomorrow or later

[halcyon veldt]

what will u guys go for ? HoW ? (0p here)

[uncut ginkgo]

oh she hauls ass when a frontal or ae happens

[jolly geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-running-gif-27094345

valeera when aoe

[prisma lantern]

I'd probably go Gaze, TBH.

Tier juicy too, but not that important for OL, and tier is an inevitability. Everyone wants Gaze though - so you might legit be trying to get it for like 2-3 months if your guild hates you / your unlucky.

[gaunt phoenix]

gaze could return to bis, they keep adjusting it in game

[jolly geyser]

1 curio slot?

[keen belfry]

does ps proc it 3 times

[gaunt phoenix]

idk

[keen belfry]

whats changing with it

[prisma lantern]

Fuu has it as bis right now. Is it not?

[gaunt phoenix]

i just hear it's behavior keeps changing so should wait a few days

[prisma lantern]

Ah. Reasonable.

[uncut ginkgo]

yea combat slot curio

[jolly geyser]

aight,cheers

[queen forge]

they really should remove stage 1 of roll the bones and make stage 2 the stage 1 buff
it feels terrible when you don't have loaded dice and roll stage 1 buff

[fathom bramble]

simplest thing to do imo is to swap 1 and 2

and move a portion of the stage 1(now stage 2) to baseline if necessary

[wooden pilot]

wait I thought they said they made a mistake and were gonna bring aoe blind back?

[vivid vessel]

yes

in .5

[wooden pilot]

you’re joking

you

can’t

be

srs

[vivid vessel]

when they made the mistake of keeping aoe blind while already having it removed from the tooltip

they hotxided it week 1 mid week

but now they realzied it was a mistake to remove it

so they are bringing it back

cant be hotfixed this time tho !

gotta wait .5 !

[wooden pilot]

feels so good when tank calls for aoe stops

[vivid vessel]

why

she is healer

[glass mortar]

hotfixes are for nerfing rogue utility or buffing unholy dk by 20% (at minimum), anything else can wait

oh yea valeera be pumpin

[prisma lantern]

That's the %dmg curio yeah?

Or she giga buffed? 😂

[vivid vessel]

idk bro

she just autto attacking

[glass mortar]

she just like us fr

[prisma lantern]

😂

[bright crane]

Have you tried just doing more damage?

[copper radish]

Isn’t outlaw just auto attacking now? And doing less than a bot? 😭

It’s so over

[glass folio]

somehow the cdm doesnt show the number of Opportunity procs anymroe

[craggy barn]

anyone knwo if theres a limit to how many catalysts u can drop in a week

[vivid vessel]

no clue

i dropped 2 today

[craggy barn]

how far apart?

[vivid vessel]

did 8 keys no drop, then in 3 keys got 2, then 10 other key no drop

[craggy barn]

hmm kk

[wooden pilot]

She’s doing +100k as dps if you can handle it

[copper radish]

Blizz for u 🤷‍♂️

Secret aura now

[outer meteor]

whats better as a 2nd craft, ring or boots

[cobalt token]

lmao

i just grappled into murder row

from the anguish npc

through a wall

😭

[glass folio]

no one else has this problem?

[thorny wedge]

any tips on getting tier pieces? it’s just raid, catalyzing them and great vault right?

[copper radish]

Haven’t checked yet

[vivid vessel]

guys ..

[cinder relic]

@vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

ye i saw

i mean

its good for deathstalker i guess

i do wish they stopped doing that tho

where they take an old ability name

and visuals

and change it into something that have nothing to do with it

!!

such a scam

[dim widget]

killing spree much? 😏

[glass mortar]

why does moving ur mark cost energy tho

who at blizzard is holding a gun to the devs and telling them specs MUST be punished for target swapping

the playerbase just loooooves the friction of not being able to swap to a new target for free

😠

[dim widget]

because the midnight changes made rogues drown in energy

duh

[proven ocean]

guys

omgomgomgogm

i found a new crazy tech

!!!!!!

super crazy revolutionary

game changing

might make u one of the best clickers in town

logitech g pro x2 superstrike

this mouse is actually crazy good LMAO

makes ur clicks apparently -30 ms and it genuinely feels that way

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/shop/p/pro-x2-superstrike-mouse

[dim widget]

naaa

i like my steering wheel

[proven ocean]

no like it has new tech

[cinder relic]

Well they said in the patchnote

[proven ocean]

it doesn't have a click button

its haptics

when u click

[glass mortar]

what the hecka ur gunna make me open wowhead on my phone

[proven ocean]

so like when ur finger wants to click

[glass mortar]

this is about to be a 20 minute adventure

[proven ocean]

it clicks before u click it further

[glass mortar]

😩

[glass mortar]

👏 ty

[cinder relic]

They still want there to be a cost with target swapping

But for both specs atm it's legit no cost

[glass mortar]

i dont think that reasoning really tracks in raid where you generally dont have the option of making meaningful choices about where ur mark goes, so this is just a tax, but still much better then it was so

gj blozz

[prisma lantern]

I mean you can still snipe ads with it to gain DN stacks. But 20s CD is not overly abusable

[random stirrup]

meh 25 energy is such a meaningless amount

hopefully they keep it that way

[stiff vector]

you guys think the engi crafted helm is worth w/ full crit on it? Cant put regular embelish on it though

[copper radish]

YK what would have been cool? To see outlaw on the 12.0.5 notes

[vivid vessel]

lower ilvl on main agi slots

[glass mortar]

does tier helm have bad stats

[vivid vessel]

usually not

[fathom bramble]

crit/haste should be close unless your stats are incredibly fucked

[vivid vessel]

io dotn think you end season with crafted on a main slot like that