outlaw

[meager lichen]

i have +22,85 haste without raidbuffs etc., if i use haste flask even more

[stiff hawk]

We meant speed in terms of, do you have time gaps between your globals

[fading igloo]

Strawman

[obsidian basin]

What I struggled with for the longest time is learning that it's better to not go for max combo point finishers, it sounds silly looking back at it, but it's something I had to re-learn after not touching rogue since WotLK

[cinder relic]

No?

[meager lichen]

ah sorry, i try to use everything if available but if bte up and AR close to rdy i hold it

[cinder relic]

U guys are really good at this

[hollow creek]

Or do you guys know Where i can find someone to look att my logs ?

[random stirrup]

still not what we meant, like literally are you pressing your buttons fast enough to queue your spells. if you go in your logs is there exactly (or pretty much exactly) 0.8s between your gcds

[meager lichen]

i do, if i have 5 cp i use dispatch...or more if bte is not up trying not to overcap CPs

[random stirrup]

well 0.8s during AR and 1s outside

[meager lichen]

more or less spamming keys ^^

but will check that

[cinder relic]

I don't even know what youre complaining about here past "encounter design sucks and no new encounters will fix it"

How is every spec even doing the same thing here

[wintry solar]

I think he doesn't like the raid this season

[cinder relic]

Which is fine Ig?

Nothing wrong with disliking a raid

[wintry solar]

Naw

[cinder relic]

I'd say the whole spec variation thing is like, the entirety of the enjoyment of the game lol

I main rogue, cuz i love how rogue feels, even if it's undertuned rn lol

[wintry solar]

Well the original context was the hero trees and how there's less freedom and adding new stuff isn't necessarily a good thing

And there's less choices because of hero trees

Since not every spec has access to all 3

[cinder relic]

I don't follow

How do hero talents relate to less choices

[wintry solar]

One hero tree exceeds in something that X spec can't take advantage of

[ornate vault]

hello here. as fatebound, with stage 2+ rtb. if i have 5 PC, with BTE up. i have to SS then BTE (so maybe overcap PC). or i press BTE with 5 PC?

[cinder relic]

Ss

[cinder relic]

Can u give an example

[wintry solar]

Like if deathstalker was super busted in AoE, outlaw couldn't take advantage of it. Hypothetically speaking if that were to happen.

[cinder relic]

Well that just makes no sense

It's like saying shadow dance is broken for outlaw but it just can't get access to it

[wintry solar]

Idk, it's just an interpretation. I don't agree with him

[cinder relic]

Specs are designed in the box they exist within yk

Gotcha

[wintry solar]

I'd love for him to clarify though

Personally I never cared about encounter design when outlaw is fun

[cinder relic]

I think this raid looks a little on the simple Side but

First raid of a new design philosphy

And first raid of the expansion

[hollow creek]

!log

[wintry solar]

Imma be honest, I don't think I dig it tbh. I'm a sucker for themes and this one just ain't it imo. Void stuff ain't my cup of tea so I guess I'm predestined to have uninteresting raids this expac.

Unless they pull an Undermine and pull something out of their hat.

[river wing]

I don't particularly like the raid but that's partially because of tuning
also partially because I hate the dragons
everything else is...okay, crown is kinda anti-outlaw but that's how it is

[wintry solar]

I get that. I had to stop judging raids based on tuning because I found myself judging them unfairly.

[elder river]

we using dungeon slice when simming for m+?

[wintry solar]

Undermine was fun as hell when I didn't play outlaw

[river wing]

Undermine was real good when I was playing it on Sin yeah

[stiff hawk]

my main concern about this season / Expac is how bad the addon situation is

Which everyone expected

but still is messy and annoying

[strong kindle]

when the last time outlaw got a world first kill? the spec is always in sub/sin prison in raid get used to it

[stiff hawk]

Endboss?

i think never happened

[fallen zodiac]

Catalyst charges are once every 2 weeks yes?

[river wing]

yes

[stiff hawk]

Yes

[hardy thicket]

I just feel like im playing a dumbed down version of everything right now but im kinda having fun so not that upset about the raid yet

[hollow temple]

is there any addon i can track my rolls to make sure i dont overwrite them when rerolling?

[tawdry latch]

Which rogue spec is the best for shadowguard leveling ?

[hollow temple]

sub or assa

[tawdry latch]

Interesting

[hollow temple]

for the normal start pull id say sub

for bigger pull assa i liked more

[tawdry latch]

Can u explain it a bit in depth?

Cuz I am struggling and each run takes like 2.5 min while every single other class is able to do it in 1.20 min

[hollow temple]

with the 7 guards pull (usually the small pull at the beginning) i did it as sub because i could just nuke down these packs really quick

for the bigger pulls i tried it with assa and had more controll over the big packs with the bleds and dots

just felt nicer, there is no science behind xD

[hollow temple]

i have even done it under 45-50sec with other classes

[unkempt dew]

I hope that outlaw preforms better in m+

[hollow temple]

its very strong in phys comp

did 98k overall in Skyreach yesterday

very surprising, or must be a bug in dmg meter idk

[balmy topaz]

@vivid vessel

[unkempt dew]

Im more of a casual player myself so KSM is the highest thing I reach haha

[balmy topaz]

I GOT THE GOAT IN MY GROUP

[vivid vessel]

Wtff

[grim spear]

What I’m trying to say is that for a very long time now, WoW’s encounter design has leaned too heavily on pure numerical tuning and universally shared mechanics.
No matter the class, everyone is essentially doing the same thing: dealing damage, moving to handle mechanics, and using defensives to stay alive.
The differences between specs mostly come down to rotation, plus some variation in mobility and survivability tools.
Encounters rarely present problems that actually require you to leverage your class’s unique toolkit.
If anything, there’s really only one clear example left: dk gripping targets

I’ve also talked about the Rogue experience, the RPG way.
sneaking through packs in stealth, pickpocketing, sapping targets, chaining stuns, it used to feel so distinct. Now those mechanics feel completely meaningless.
At this point, my Rogue doesn’t feel any different from playing a Fury Warrior. The only real differences are the names of the abilities, the rotation, and how the damage is delivered.

The game is still fun, but I expect more from it.

[stiff hawk]

Warlock gate

[grim spear]

yep

[stiff hawk]

I mean they shifted the focus from Mechanics 1 has to deal with

to the whole raid mostly

So you are only as strong as the weakest link

Back in Legion where Rogue was prime soaking material

[grim spear]

Raids might genuinely be hard to make feel distinct, but dungeons should be where class identity really shines
where different comps bring different solutions.

Right now, though, it’s all just a pure numbers check, with no real sense of experimentation or adventure.

[wintry solar]

I get it now

I do believe I agree

[frigid olive]

the secondary stats on the item you use manaflux on doesnt matter right? the tier piece stats overwrite them correct?

[wintry solar]

I think the last time rogue had anything like that was tol Dagor and that locked gate

[frigid olive]

you just want the highest ilvl item for that slot regardless of stats

[grim spear]

The ironic part is, Blizzard said they wanted balance and esports, so they stripped away all the RPG elements.

So where’s the balance?

[mighty pivot]

it is kind of funny that lockpicking and pickpocket are essentially useless. Make trickster use pickpocket rotationally, cowards

[grim spear]

In fact, stealth being folded into the damage rotation is a direct result of that logic

once the rotation becomes the only thing distinguishing classes and specs, your unique traits have to be pushed into it.

[mighty pivot]

I don't think having stealth as part of your rotation is inherently bad either. It's how it's implemented that is causing problems

annoying interactions like vanish resetting mobs, or needing to restealth out of combat, or the first dance taking ages to count down will of course make players hate stealth in group pve

[grim spear]

From an RPG perspective, that actually doesn’t feel bad.

[hardy thicket]

Correct

[mighty pivot]

they can just implement it in a way that it doesn't disrupt as much and you can still get some stealthy feeling

[wintry solar]

Stealthless combat is fine but yeah they gotta make stealth usable for something

Remember in Legion when outlaw didn't have sap but did have parlay?

I thought that was funny at the time

[mighty pivot]

it replaced blind

it was nice flavour

[wintry solar]

Yeah....

[hardy thicket]

Rogues utility in m+ is fine its a matter of blizzard just nuking the use of these to prevent mandatory rogue dungeons etc.

[wintry solar]

Still 2nd best outlaw tho

Or 3rd depending on mood

[mighty pivot]

that's on them for adding shroud for the most part. It's very hard to balance and now it's pretty much useless

[hardy thicket]

I get where you are coming from but is disagree. I'd rather not be dependant on a certain class to get leverage in a dungeon

Or in raid

[mighty pivot]

also single target CC being so inferior to aoe

[wintry solar]

Idk I'm conflicted. On one hand I like the idea of having a rogue pickpocket keys to a locked gate normally unlocked through other means but on the other there's how it'd effect M+

[river wing]

ngl every time I see a gate or a chest being locked by a VERY SPECIFIC key, I get mad
I have this fucking thing called Pick Lock, but it's been DOING NOTHING since what, TBC?

[mighty pivot]

it's ok we can pick locks of boxes with 30g in

[stiff hawk]

We can disable the lasers in Nexus Point!!!

Who said we have no utility !?

[midnight ridge]

rly?

[river wing]

yeah but it's borderline useless, maybe one laser actually closes off a better path

and we don't know counts yet, so maybe it's 100% useless instead

(also engineers can do it too)

[mighty pivot]

SL had some class/profession interactions in dungeons

technically tww too with priory

[sinful saddle]

One question, I had some "success" as a Outlaw beginner in Log Parsing with a little over average logs on 5/9 bosses and some rather "unsuccessful" parses on the other ones. Im simming at 70k DPS and got to around 51k DPS over 6-7 Mins at the dungeon Dummy.

My question is anyone here that is willing to look into my rotation and logs and help me improve?

[mighty pivot]

are you simming patchwerk with full buffs? you can sim for target dummy which is more helpful if you want to check what needs to be improved

[sinful saddle]

Oh I see, thy very much im looking into that tomorrow 👍

[vivid vessel]

you are kinda outing yourself here saying rogue only utility is shroud

also priests have mindsoothe, mages have mass invis, and any tank can do any skip with meld

[wintry solar]

That's so fuckin true

At least once a month

[balmy topaz]

Me and @tough salmon Couldn't do it

[vivid vessel]

what boss

[balmy topaz]

Last boss HC pug

[vivid vessel]

GG

[balmy topaz]

I was shot calling

but it wasn't enough

Monksea was doing more dmg than my Fury warrior and dk

gg

[sinful saddle]

Another question, how steep would you estimate the Outlaw learning curve compared to other classes?

[stiff hawk]

Shot calling and doing damage is rough

[balmy topaz]

Ye

[mighty pivot]

if you are completely new it might take some time. Making decisions and pressing buttons fast is very important for the spec even though it has been simplified in midnight. Eventually it will just click, but it can be overwhelming in the beginning

[river wing]

yeah it's one of the few specs that don't feel like autopilot still

not hard anymore, but still takes work

[sinful saddle]

Im not completely new, played some assa in tww at the end, but not that much and picked up outlaw for midnight cause it was most fun to me while leveling. Have a decent amount of playtime for other classes tho, I feel like I'm playing the mechanics of this tear all right, but the CD management and to pump over the whole fight for good logs are not feeling naturally easy compared to other tiers and classes 😅

[wintry solar]

And the lockboxes that blacksmiths can make keys for

[river wing]

that's outlaw life
it's super reliant on good uptime to hit anywhere close to the values sims will give you

(but, well, current tuning just sucks balls too)

[sinful saddle]

4% buff tomorrow kekw

[wintry solar]

Oh y'all are getting 4?

I'm getting 20% on my outlaw

Y'all made someone mad ig idk

[vivid vessel]

he told me you were blasting ..

[hardy thicket]

Yes. Or stealth in general.

[balmy topaz]

TOLD YOU BRO

Did he like my raid leading

[vivid vessel]

he didnt comment

[balmy topaz]

fuck it's over

[hardy thicket]

My point is I dont mind them preventing use of stealth being a niche cuz i dont want to be dependent on certain classes for leverage. Same applies to priest or any tank.

As long as they are consistent

[vivid vessel]

ok but then why dont we get other utility like every other class

if our utility is made useless

[hardy thicket]

Yeah id be onboard with that

Again i want them to be consistent

[zinc briar]

so i have to take the decision, tomorrow i have to craft items and go full to one spec

seems like i have to got sub or assa

[vivid vessel]

why do you have to craft tomorrow

[zinc briar]

m+ and mythic raid

cant slack more

[vivid vessel]

wdym slack

just so you know

the high end guilds usually dont even craft week 1

[zinc briar]

i mean stop trolling

with random gear etc

[vivid vessel]

highyl dependent on spec etc but

weapons crafts are often delayed

till you killed the weapon bosses

:D

[zinc briar]

whats the dps gain of embellishment?

[vivid vessel]

no clue

small prolly

[zinc briar]

are u going full sub?

tomelvis?

[uncut stratus]

possible to track rtb buffs through blizzards cd manager? was using zac's wa before so i know when to kir but RIP

[vivid vessel]

in raid prollly

or sin

some bosses i might do as outlaw but

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[vivid vessel]

im thinking boss 1 outlaw, boss 2 outlaw, boss 3 outlaw, dragon sin, vanguard sin or outlaw, last boss sub or sin

[zinc briar]

we need that much mastery?

to play sub

[hasty warren]

best stat with vers

[uncut stratus]

apparently atrocity UI tracks rtb buffs, but I don't want a whole UI makeover

[mighty pivot]

rtb is on cdm

[uncut stratus]

yep see it on cdm, but not seeing it popup as like which buff I have from rtb, only in the top right corner where buffs usually go

[mighty pivot]

by default rtb is shown as a bar but you can move it to show as a buff on your cdm buffs

post a pic of the buff tab of your cdm if it doesn't show

[uncut stratus]

whats the buff called for 2 set

yeah i see the bar you're talking about

[static crescent]

So, at end of beta outlaw looked pretty decent, then got some bug fix that was supposed the boost the damage a lot hence they reverted the aura+bf change. Does someone recall what the bug fix was in the beta cycle?

[uncut stratus]

double trouble?

[mighty pivot]

you cannot show specifc rtb buffs, you set cdm to show you whatever rtb buff is active (any of the 4 stages)

2 is double trouble yes

[uncut stratus]

right thats no problem, i see the bar, I'm just aware that 2 set or higher is when we KiR unless our next roll will be loaded dice

just wanna make sure what the buff name is actually called lol

[mighty pivot]

ye double trouble, or just never kir if the icon is just a purple die (one of a kind, the first stage of rtb). With KIR you rarely have to think because of loaded dice

[tribal sapphire]

Any way to count number of mobs near? Being hit by flurry? Had a wa but anymore

[wintry solar]

Do your w*rdle

[junior folio]

Either you eyeball it and make quick maths or estimates or you know the fight, there's no combat add-ons to do that

[mystic berry]

you mean this work of art?
Outlaw
All damage increased by 15%.
Developers’ notes: Outlaw’s performance on the beta had been hampered by a significant bug. Now that it’s fixed, this damage bonus was not needed to keep them competitive. We are also adjusting Blade Flurry to keep AOE damage as intended in light of these changes.
Melee damage reduced by 10%.
Blade Flurry causes your abilities to strike nearby enemies for 30% of damage dealt (was 25%).

Idk what was the bug they fixed that was doing 15% aura + 10% melee damage equivalent

[static crescent]

Yes, thats what I was wondering

[sterile dune]

Blade flurry op now?

[static crescent]

Becouse outlaw did perform well in few dungeons atleast in some high keys at the end of beta, so would be interesting if the bug was something significant

just never heard what it was

(why the fuck also wouldnt they mention it there)

[mystic berry]

someone here might know what it was

But it might also be cap

[normal forge]

no, those are very old notes

[static crescent]

With all the dooming (which i personally constantly do) im actually starting to wonder with pull sizes going only few mobs over 8 usually, could outlaw even be competetive in m+ to some shitty degree

[vivid vessel]

i actually dont remmeber

oh ye no

melees were going down

right

thats was the bug

[static crescent]

Was that a significant damage gain to have it fixed?

[vivid vessel]

well

melees are 15% of our damage now

idk

[river wing]

tbh this season there's not many high-target pulls, it seems
like Academy might have some, perhaps, but all new dungeons space their mobs in a way that pulling more than three packs is just too much walking

[static crescent]

Yeah, and in Academy that is just turbo padding there mostly, doesnt reduce the duration of the instance to blow up on that first pull/boss

[vivid vessel]

idk i guess melees kinda went up like

5 to 10%

well

not 5 to 10%

but 5 to 10% of your details

ye

[static crescent]

Okey so that amounts to pretty much nothing

[vivid vessel]

no that amount to a 5 to 10% buff is waht i mean

fixing the melee thing

idk 10% would be the very best case tho

i cant really find logs where melees actually disapeared

[river wing]

Pit has a lot of mobs but you don't want to pull 15 at once
Skyreach is often just a few huge mobs in a pack, so three packs is still like 8-10
and Seat is just...uhhhh
basically you can do a shitty crazy pull at the start and then it's packs of 3 to 7 the entire dungeon

[vivid vessel]

honestly idk

outlaw looked good on beta when it had that bug fixed and pre aura nerf

thats when you were looking decent in keys

then they aura nerfed it after but the bug was already fixed

[static crescent]

What was the aura nerf?

amount

[vivid vessel]

honestly i dont remember

they did a bunch of things

on beta

15% aura nerf

then 15% aura buff

i legit do not remmeber

[static crescent]

Yeah im just trying to understand how far from seeing outlaw doing good, did they change it to X direction

to have an idea where we are at now

like shitty stuff like 4% buff isnt much, but its closing some gap a bit to that situation where it was decent

I guess US people can start posting how they doing soon

Was really no content to test these weeks

I mean we are still dogshit becouse of raid buff/utility section, but theres a large leeway between being playable and pushing tittles

[vivid vessel]

i dont think outlaw is gonna be any good in keys

bf has never been this low

and you can kinda see how our aoe already look

if you look at a boss like paladin

[slim hare]

well on 8 targets some burst spec are doign same dmg as outlaw

[slim hare]

without cd

[vivid vessel]

wdym

ah

well

ye

my point is

outlaw doesnt necesseraly get better wiht more targets

than other specs

its not a ultra scaler wiht more targets

we have linear scaling

[static crescent]

Yeah I get what you mean

[vivid vessel]

sub for example will have breakpoint when it will start doing a lot more damage than on 2 or 3 target

[slim hare]

legit don't care we are target cap they are not

[vivid vessel]

obviously vanguard isnt the best example to see

[slim hare]

how the fuck is that allowed

[vivid vessel]

but we dont have much more to go from

but its kinda easy to kinda infer it wont be good aoe in keys

cause we have 30% bf

without pc

we had 50% bf with pc in tww s3

[static crescent]

Yeah if things would be done correctly, outlaw should be top tier dps on a 8 mob pack that lives long

[vivid vessel]

and we did 0 aoe in tww s3

outlaw looked better in aoe in raid in s3 tww aswell

so ye

my take is that its gonna do 0 aoe in keys

but we will have decent st this time around

at least

[slim hare]

decent meaning bottom 5 st in the game

sure

[vivid vessel]

we only lose 5% from talents going into aoe

[vivid vessel]

no

outlaw st is decent this time

and we dont lose much st going aoe talent

(5%)

prolly the same cant be said of every spec

so i do think we will have quite good st in keys

more top tier than mid

[static crescent]

Yeah think ST is gonna be super fine, just doesnt pull that drastically, and as its not burst based it loses some value in m+

[vivid vessel]

but i mean sub is just gonna do more st so

:D

[static crescent]

Q_Q

and have burst windows aswell

oh well, il just prolly push on devourer and try to do an 10 on rogue

patch note waiting until friday again

[vivid vessel]

:D

sub loses less st going aoe build than us

outlaw really has fallen far

[shy sandal]

anyone did the delve boss on ?? as outlaw?

[radiant wyvern]

sub changes like one talent for aoe

[ionic citrus]

i did

[polar kelp]

Is the ace change happening today? Or is that later, I can't find the notes

[static crescent]

April

12.0.5

[polar kelp]

Phew. Thanks man

[static crescent]

Or may

Idk exactly

[queen forge]

does AR still reduce GCD and scales with haste? i cant find the tooltip

[polar kelp]

Yep, but because ar isn't perma up it's not AS important

[queen forge]

does it scale with haste? the GCD reduction?

[polar kelp]

Yep, up to 25%. 25% haste is .8gcd, that's max

[zinc briar]

But do u think that outlaw will do better than sub in m+ overall?

Ignoring AAcademy that sub will be better

Because of 1st pull

[vivid vessel]

prolly not

sub is tankier

has uncapped aoe

does more aoe

has more st

has cds

[zealous bough]

@vivid vessel do you share your profile rogue or not my bor ?

[vivid vessel]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQ-spyZPGZ4y5diilAnap5nEybU7fWY5nFUNala5rjQ7bPxLKQLWRCVLdmFImcX4_WvvTKE3sKz3Q2g/pub

[merry elk]

this is the gcd reduction for sub aswell? 25%?

[vivid vessel]

no

rogue gcds dont scale with haste

adr makes it scale with haste

[leaden sonnet]

Sub has its own seperate cursed haste scaling

[vivid vessel]

energy specs in general

[leaden sonnet]

[vivid vessel]

ye

eleem !

fix your trinket

before i have to play sub

please ty

[zinc briar]

Where is the outlaw dev living?

Someone knows?

I have to fix it

[radiant wyvern]

im worried, someone tell me assa isnt going to end up on top of the rogue specs

[vivid vessel]

between sub and assa

[zinc briar]

I preffer assa than sub

Both are boring, playing assa allows me to see a film meanwhile

Relax gaming watching videos

[vivid vessel]

if you are an outlaw player and tell me you prefer assa

[proven ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1349252109219926046/1405691772645937193/scared_orange.gif

[vivid vessel]

idk

[woven hinge]

i think sub will be a little better, bcs of the tierset gain

[vivid vessel]

sub litteraly has ace procs

[proven ocean]

Zac seeing outlaw nerfs this wednesday

[vivid vessel]

outlaw could get a 10% aura buff tomorrow it would still be the worse rogue spec prolly

idk about nerfs buddy

[proven ocean]

👀🌊

I see*

[radiant wyvern]

are they even bringing a rogue in rwf

[zinc briar]

Lets see what ohio rogues plays today

Like imexile

I think its gonna be sub

[vapid salmon]

I think nothing can be more dead than assa atm

[vivid vessel]

?

[lucid sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-butler-guy-looking-at-paper-edit-confused-disturbing-gif-6359318748669667132

[vivid vessel]

assa is prolly default spec on most bosses with sub rn

could even be default on last

could be assa on every boss lol

[vapid salmon]

mmmm

[zinc briar]

Yeah seems like assa scales more than sub and outlaw with more ilvl

[vivid vessel]

nothing to do with scaling

[vapid salmon]

Every rogue spec channel is cool because people say the other specs are the best

[vivid vessel]

im right tho

just open wcl

[slim hare]

yep zac is prob right

[vivid vessel]

ok we take thinking cap one sec

[zinc briar]

No one can say outlaw is the best

[slim hare]

at least outlaw is the worse if you just have a little knowledge on how it works/perform usually

[vivid vessel]

crown is bettwen sub and assa, sub will do more damage p1, assa is more damage execute phase (whioch could be the only real damage of the fight), outlaw doesnt exist

[lucid sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/jax-teller-gif-22808327

[vivid vessel]

assa or outlaw, prolly assa

[trim vigil]

I want to see who said that Outlaw is the best spec

[lucid sparrow]

Outlaw life

[mystic berry]

people who say this at the sub channel are delulu tbh

[leaden sonnet]

Idk im trying

Not my fault blizzard designed it in a dumb way

[radiant wyvern]

where is outlaw i dont see it im looking all around the top and middle surely its in there somehwere ?

[vivid vessel]

boss might be 2t whole fight so idk, assa look better on boss damage, could be fake, imo its between outlaw and assa because 2 target

[mystic berry]

not even charting bro

[vivid vessel]

pure st, if you need to swap to adds you prolly go sub

just assa

[radiant wyvern]

how we get rogue tank is blizz just makes our damage so so bad, and then we slowly get some tank abilities added in throughout the expac

[glass anvil]

I'm so glad they buffed arms warrior whilst negletcting rouge

[vivid vessel]

i think these 2 are kinda just pure st, but one has adds to swap to possibly so it wou.ld be sub prolly

[lucid sparrow]

What ur telling me is i need to get a dagger

[vivid vessel]

@vapid salmon so

[lucid sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/choking-choking-emote-gif-4834953046538741679

[vapid salmon]

I read it on assa channel a couple days ago, I swear 🤣

[long barn]

4% buff not going to do much to our position sadly.

[zinc briar]

But check ele and outlaw logs, when u go to the list of logs, ele does more dmg than outlaw

[vapid salmon]

I think those are good points 👀

[zinc briar]

Thats not even real, outlaw is still worst

[vivid vessel]

also an additional thing to consider

[grim spear]

you should check boss damage

[vivid vessel]

which might make sub even better

[mystic berry]

paladins closed their disc, arms pulled all alarms for their spec, what did we do?

[vivid vessel]

is that sub tier set is 14%

other 2 spec is like 4/5%

most grps in hc didnt have 4p till last boss

[slim hare]

need guy to close the discord,

[grim spear]

Assassination really does seem to be the strongest.

[slim hare]

now that he is fulling dooming realising we suck

[vivid vessel]

this is fake data imo

assa doesnt swap off of boss

on a lot of these bosses

[slim hare]

next step is kill discord so we can have some change

[vivid vessel]

while outlaw and sub do

its also doing way better on drake idk why but this will change when boss is 2 t in mythic

[mystic berry]

We succesfully got him to doom

next step is to close down

[slim hare]

we didnt do cheat

he just played

and realized he couldnt even appear on meter

[zinc briar]

Or make a post every day in the forums

[long barn]

I agree. Something must be done or we will have another 3 seasons of shit

[slim hare]

you'd need to prove they know how to read it tho

[radiant wyvern]

rogues, we're even invisible on the meters as well.

[long barn]

Forums don’t do shit. They don’t staff anyone to read them

[slim hare]

they only react when discord are closed or people cancel theyr sub massively

which they wouldnt notice as rogue not enough people play it

[long barn]

Yep

@cinder relic close da doors. It’s time

[zinc briar]

We can do that, writting in the reason that outlaw sux

[midnight granite]

We need like 20% buff to be playable

[lucid sparrow]

Theres 2 more weeks of balancing no?

[zinc briar]

2 more weeks of being invisible

[long barn]

Our 4 piece sucks. This is going to get worse

[mystic berry]

our mistake is posting on rogue forum

[long barn]

The gap bigger

[lucid sparrow]

[mystic berry]

when we should be posting on general

[near rock]

https://imgur.com/1nUZrGo

[mystic berry]

Mafic dont lurk on general

[zinc briar]

Ofc, ill post in general

With title like "its time to stop playing wow"

Zac should make a 2nd Rogue discord

[mystic berry]

"rogues are unplayable" "please blizzard use gemini to balance rogue"

[zinc briar]

And we should try to close this one

[mystic berry]

shit like that

[silk lantern]

+do you use shiv during rotation or only to remove the enrage?

[zinc briar]

Dont play Rogue, go Hunter

Y can calm them also doing more dmg

🙂

[trim vigil]

I agree

[silk lantern]

i like melee classes more

but idk if i should spam shiv in rotation anyway

since its free

[zinc briar]

No

Dont use it

[hardy vault]

may i introduce you to survival

[zinc briar]

Only to calm mobs

[mystic berry]

survival is weird now

Idk how I feel about it

[hardy vault]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

this was peak survival hunter

cataclysm was so good

[mystic berry]

I mean I understood when it was a spear melee thing

But this mix of melee, pet and a shotgun idk

And bomba

[wintry solar]

Literally Ark

[vivid vessel]

you gonna play outlaw on crown?

[wintry solar]

Survival Ascended

[vivid vessel]

did you play outlaw on dimensius actually

[proven ocean]

Zac

Fk wow

Thoughts?

[wintry solar]

Not until marriage

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean

im geniully hyped

im gonna log in at 5am tomorrow

to play keys

with the gang

then guild keys all day

[near rock]

I already did

[vivid vessel]

i mean it was hc

[static crescent]

Is m+ up in US allready

[hardy vault]

in a bit

[near rock]

Oh on mythic? Idk man we’ll have to see the fight first

[vivid vessel]

i mean

if that fight was mythic difficulty

[static crescent]

Wtb outlaw m+ streams

[vivid vessel]

with current design fight

[hardy vault]

their reset is gonna be in like 5hrs

[vivid vessel]

you would play outlaw on it >?

[hardy vault]

probbaly

[vivid vessel]

did you play outlaw on dimmy prog

[near rock]

No I did not but mythic dimmy was substantially worse than heroic crown

[vivid vessel]

thats not true based on wcl tho

i had the conversation with lok yesterday

we looked significantly better on dimmy than we do on crown rn

[near rock]

I honestly do not care man all you do is rant 24/7 about how dogshit you think the spec is

I get it

[vivid vessel]

waht

im just asking lol

im genuily just asking if you would play current outlaw on current crown lol

why do you take it that way

also i think ranting about how dogshit the spec is when its dogshit is valid

[mystic berry]

They hate him for he spoke the truth

[vivid vessel]

i checked crown and i saw that r1 log is 2x outlaw damage

idk

i guess it could be worse !

[brittle minnow]

I mean... I went from maining rogue since legion, to playing mage because of how rogue looked/felt this tier

[vivid vessel]

my bad for wanting one tier where outlaw can be played without trolling :D

[brittle minnow]

Outlaw is always going to be the red headed step child of rogue. and that's of the class that's already one of the least played specs in the game.

[trim vigil]

I loved playing outlaw on the dimmy prog mmmmmh

[hardy vault]

i mean, we are in fact (together with evoker) the least played class

maybe even least played spec together with aug

[placid ocean]

We're also the only dps-only class that isn't in the top 5 dps

[brittle minnow]

Imo the problem outlaw is always going to have outside of tuning that walls it on people playing is the weapon issue.

[radiant wyvern]

aug has 12k parses on wcl

outlaw 4700

[hardy vault]

ggs

[midnight granite]

Always has been

Feral has more players

[brittle minnow]

For most rogues it becomes, "why craft a sword/axe etc for outlaw when I can just craft a dagger and be allowed to flex TWO specs"

[mystic berry]

Their encounter design, focused on burst windows is quite hostile to current law, but yes, the fact we have to lock in into a different weapon also sucks

[random stirrup]

I would try outlaw on M vanguard with current tuning if my soon to be myth weapon were usable 🙂

[hardy vault]

i mean i 100% went into this tier saying i'll play outlaw or not rogue. because we still didn't have a rogue in roster but 3+ of my other possibilities it's an outlaw season

i'll suffer

but it's gonna be fine

[mystic berry]

It becomes specially atrocious when blizzard seems content to have just one good spec in pure dps classes

Under the justification that ppl can simply reroll to the good one

[brittle minnow]

Which is kind of a problem of how they tune, where they also like to bring the top side down instead of the lower side up more. Though they're doing a bit more of the later this time around

[wintry solar]

Idk why y'all are bugging

All rogues blow so might as well play what you like

[normal forge]

it should be outlaw first, sub, then sin

instead of 3 warlock specs, wtf

[wintry solar]

Sub shouldn't be up there

[radiant wyvern]

popo =

friend

[static crescent]

But might be nice to get outlaw rankings first week

Like there will be 0 tryhards playing rogue

Top5 world goal leggo

[fervent garden]

hey but at least its Vault day.

[radiant wyvern]

0 tier its completely over for me im afraid

[static crescent]

I got warbound set items

Can decide what il 4 set

Easy life

5% outlaw damage boost sure sounds appealing

Lmao

[long barn]

Would it even be enough

[fervent garden]

heh. might actually pass on a tier piece this week depending

[static crescent]

I mean 5% dmg from set bonus

[long barn]

Have you checked to see what the % difference is? Remember we are doing like 60k so 4% of that is gonna do what exactly

Oh

[static crescent]

3% I guess

[gloomy adder]

When I looked on wcl last night the rank 1 outlaw doesn’t even have tier set equipped

Not sure if fake

[static crescent]

5% is 5%

[long barn]

Who’s rank 1 outlaw

[gloomy adder]

I don’t know go look wcl

[long barn]

Oh o thought you knew

[static crescent]

Can probs gain close more with opti items? 😄 idk

[long barn]

I’m too lazy lol

Let me check

[gloomy adder]

It was loktark

But looks like he has tier set now

[river wing]

just gonna spend the week doing so much M+ my fingers bleed, get full Hero, get full enchants, get Myth crest crafted sword
and if I lose to our demo lock on heroic Vora or Salha anyway, then so be it

[gloomy adder]

2 piece anyway

[dark ember]

Happy to see how the changes pan out just wondering where the extra talent point is getting sacrificed from to make room for Ace 2

[gloomy adder]

But yeah he was still rank 1 outlaw allstar when I checked yesterday with zero tier piece

[static crescent]

Igni do you stream

[river wing]

probably Find

[vivid vessel]

its hard ot get 4p week 1 kinda

[river wing]

no

[static crescent]

Need em us folks outlaw streaming today

[gloomy adder]

Ye but he didn’t even have 2p I just thought it was funny

[static crescent]

Step up plz

[river wing]

I'm in EU, waiting for reset lul

[static crescent]

Rip

[gloomy adder]

Not a good look when the literal best parser on the game doesn’t even use tier set

(**AT THAT POINT IN TIME)

[mystic berry]

5% for 8 sec

its even better

[static crescent]

Think whole set was like 4.86% right

But thats 5% dmg amp for burst windows! Imagine at nexus point in the beam

BOOM

[gloomy adder]

Hate the statting on tier set

When are they making mastery useful

[placid ocean]

Guys, I have bad news. I was top dps in LFR last week. Blizzard is going to see this and think we need a nerf

[river wing]

ok here's a stupid idea
what if Outlaw mastery increased damage of all "left hand" abilities, i.e. offhand melee attacks, PS, BtE, and KS? (also Shiv but who cares)

[mystic berry]

"Based on data gathered during the first week of heroic raiding and player feedback we will be implementing the following Changes.
Rogue:

Outlaw: All damage reduced by 4%. Blade flurry is now 20% (from 35%)

Thank you bro

[slender creek]

anyone lucky enough to have gotten both Radiant Foil and Abyss Sabre yet?

[arctic hollow]

I like it, add it to the list !

[proven ocean]

Nice but u wont see me

Can’t wait for blizzard to swap eu and na reset days so we can see liquid crash out about losing

[stoic wagon]

liquid ain't loosing because of time difference

[proven ocean]

[stoic wagon]

if you think so you haven't been watching enough

and i'm EU btw

[proven ocean]

Ye im a noob

[hollow creek]

What setup are ppl gonna play with outlaw in m+ ?

[stoic wagon]

not saying that

just my opinion

[proven ocean]

Ur opinion is that i havent watched enough

Watched all rwf since they started streaming rwf buddy

Bro missed all the echo drama on them being a day behind

Its easy to just listen to max lying 24/7

[light kernel]

@stoic wagon zeros played in rwf 5 yrs ago wdym

[stoic wagon]

lol

[stoic wagon]

didn't aged well

[proven ocean]

R1 m+ only noob

[light kernel]

There were rumours u played under diff name in echo

[proven ocean]

nope

Rumors are false

[light kernel]

I was sarcastic 🙁

[proven ocean]

I did outdps all their rogues in m+ tho

one being them having 4 set and me in 0 set

Dps racer

[stoic wagon]

but i mean in tww for example they ust swept everything, i know there's time difference, but still back then it didn't happen for a team to win a whole expansion

[proven ocean]

Echo lost to few hrs difference few times already

[fickle stream]

What spec u Will play at This season start

[proven ocean]

Skipping s1

[stoic wagon]

arcantina spec

[proven ocean]

When i play i always play the best rogue spec and alt the other 2

From wcl i think sub is the best atm

Not sure

[silver venture]

is this good overall for pit of saron, i feel like i can still improve in a lotta matters

[stoic wagon]

but boring af

legit 2 buttons

[proven ocean]

Do u think outlaw is too easy to play perfectly?

[stoic wagon]

i don't think outlaw is easy compared to other specs

but way easier than last season for sure

[proven ocean]

No matter how easy a spec is it’ll always have a high ceiling

[mystic berry]

Its fine

[proven ocean]

And a dps gap between the best and a “good” rogue

[stoic wagon]

of course even with an easy spec you won't get top 1, i'm saying its just boring

[river wing]

imagine CN getting a Monday reset now that they're supposed to be caught up

[proven ocean]

At the highest point its just rng based+tank based dps

[turbid wren]

Giga trolling. I love it 👍😏

[proven ocean]

Bro is reverse trolling

Crazy how most ppl that watch rwf dont understand whats going on at all

To this day too

Ye lemme listen to max explaining how it doesn’t matter

Bro says 10 different things at the same time and nothing correlates

[turbid wren]

We understand, personally most of us are 3 expansion past the point of arguing this “release difference” BS. You’re just lagging behind homie or ragebaiting

But you go off king ;)

[proven ocean]

Echo lost few times under 6 hrs difference

Maybe stop acting stupid

Google helps

[turbid wren]

Your reading comprehension is suboptimal. 🤷🏻‍♂️ it is what it is

[zinc briar]

Gonna be the same sht with set

[proven ocean]

You know everything buddy ur the prophet

Keep it up king

[river maple]

Are we op yet

[proven ocean]

Hope echo loses tho so i can read some fresh gingi tweets

[zinc briar]

Easier or harder doesnt mean its more or less fun

[mystic berry]

Not yet bro, ask again next friday when blizz rolls the dice to see who gets buffed

[zinc briar]

And sub is so fckn boring

Even if outlaw is more cluncky compared to last season, is 30 times more fun to play than dual button sub

[stoic wagon]

agree

depends what's your goal

if you want to play competitive going outlaw is troll

if you just want high keys then whatever

[zinc briar]

Hope method can be closer of echo this tier and win them the next

[tropic zephyr]

Cursed wishes

[zinc briar]

Want to ser gingi crying

See

[tropic zephyr]

Echo sweep 100% btw

[static crescent]

if you want come to play competetive going rogue is troll, not just outlaw

[zinc briar]

Echo is going to lose vs liquid 100%

[static crescent]

Also dont expect to be invited to any key ever as rogue without tank friend

[zinc briar]

Without kush, clikz, cannex and nao...

And zaelia

Nah, they wont win

[fickle relic]

damn, sub in pvp is like on another level

i'll still play outlaw in pve but the difference in pvp is insane

[zinc briar]

Wow PvP still exists?

[copper radish]

Yes barely lmao

[fickle relic]

very yes

[zinc briar]

U got lol, cs or valorant for that

[fickle relic]

eh uh

i guess ew would be insulting

cs is like next level garbage

and valorant is it's clone so it's obvious

[stuck tiger]

Theyre fun if you dont take them super serious tho

[fickle relic]

if you try playing sub in pvp you'll definetly have some fun

cs isn't even fun to play and it keeps throwing bullshit match ups, i play it only for weekly drops. got a 9 euro terminal last time btw

[zinc briar]

We lost the point here

How can we force buffs for outlaw?

@vivid vessel did u make our new discord?

So we can close this one

[light kernel]

on what slots should i send champ crest?

[fickle relic]

let's make protests in game

[mighty pivot]

mh weapons if you aren't crafting, trinkets, chest/head/pants

[fickle relic]

we can block the raid entrance or something

[vivid vessel]

they always catch up before last boss tho and then it doesnt matter anymore

and they catch up cause they can copy strats from bosses instead of spending time doing them

once they catch up they can even get ahead etc, its always the same

im not saying the 6h diff doesnt make any diff

but it kinda doesnt

[mystic berry]

druids are filling GD forum with complaints

they know how this works

Too bad we have like, 10 people playing rogue

[light kernel]

ty

[naive river]

How many outlaw parses this week like 2k lol

[soft musk]

anyone have a good platynator or plater for M+?

[mystic berry]

2700

last I checked

endangered species fr

[river wing]

it's basically a general prio list for anything really
MH wep > chest/legs/head = trinkets (if you got good ones, that is) > boots/shoulders/gloves = rings/amulets (give more secondaries but no primary) > cloak/bracers/belt > OH wep

[light kernel]

tyty

[light kernel]

im gonna craft next week sword so im gonna save MH

or should i craft something else since i only do m+

[river wing]

nah if you only do M+, MH wep with myth crests is a solid craft

chances to get an MH myth drop in the vault first week outright aren't great

[true dust]

At least being the only rogue means less competition for gear! Got 2 set pieces in the nm raid because only two other people were rolling on it 🇼

[light kernel]

prolly craft MH and put sub/assa vault for OH dagger

after that get back onto outlaw vault

[river wing]

bro wym

set pieces for rogue are the most cluttered set pieces of all

you have 4 druid specs, 3 DH specs, and 3 monk specs competing for them

it's 13 specs vs 9 for any other piece

[keen belfry]

we used to compete vs monks and evokers

[left imp]

when next reset

[keen belfry]

now we got all leather

[mystic berry]

Yeah, its a shitshow, there is always more than a druid in raids and right now DH is also everywhere

[true dust]

True then i just got lucky with the group lol

[left imp]

wait when servers going back

[inland acorn]

Only reason to give set pieces to rogue is so he can switch to sub on prog

[empty tulip]

our raid is like 70% leather and only plate tier has dropped god bless

[true dust]

I‘m sure other specs find stuff to complain about too

[fervent garden]

says 4 hours. still down for me.

[left imp]

brr

[naive river]

Prolly 11pm

Pst

[gleaming reef]

although if you do.... HAHA

[river wing]

even then you can freely upgrade it to 5/6 so it's not wasted crests

[real yew]

Boys, myth crests will drop from 7 or 9 keys?

[normal forge]

no time to dev outlaw properly, but time for making songs https://www.wowhead.com/news/a-place-to-call-home-new-music-video-and-animation-380944?utm_source=discord-webhook

[near rock]

its almost like those are entirely different departments in the company

[normal forge]

its money

hire more devs

[cinder relic]

Just hire more Devs 4head

[leaden sonnet]

Yeah bro just put the cinematic team on fixing outlaw bugs

[vivid vessel]

bro ..

[normal forge]

sounds fair, taken that last cinematic into account

[vivid vessel]

GUYS THERE IS A FUCKING HUGE ORB IN THE SKY

WTF

[normal aurora]

Hey folks, how do ya'll track your PS stacks to better determine if you have 3 vs 6?

[light kernel]

We need a9e blind back asap

Aoe

[fiery timber]

dude since midnight launch

[vivid vessel]

wtf

really

thats crazy

[fiery timber]

yeah

does someone have that sheet for each class who has the biggest upgrade with tset?

[normal forge]

yes, using blizzard ui is easy

[copper radish]

Prayers for tier in vault today 🙏

[loud blaze]

I use the blizzard UI, it's got some feature you can see single buffs

[vivid vessel]

have been testing some aoe with my tank

its looking like another one of these seasons

where you just do less than tank

on every pack

:D

[cinder relic]

That's not just an outlaw issue tbf

Tank damage is actually out of control this season

[vivid vessel]

hm

hopefully

im not too hopeful about outlaw aoe

considering no pc, 50 to 30% bf

and how it looks in raid aoe

[cinder relic]

Like guardian druid does almost as much damage as a dps rn

Still

[vivid vessel]

they just got nerfed

[cinder relic]

I'm aware

[fresh acorn]

Post raid skybox change

[cinder relic]

Idt u understand how much damage they were doing

[normal aurora]

Wonder how far the 5 tank groups gonna get in M+

[normal forge]

sometimes i fear blizz do, more often than not, hidden adjustments to numbers

[vapid blaze]

i mean guardian would have actually competed for a dps spot in st no?

[cinder relic]

Yeah

[mystic berry]

I get this angle, but then again, why?

Ppl would find out

[dark ember]

I was in a dungeon last night and the fight for 1st place was between me and the blood dk.

Arcane mage was permanently sitting in 3rd, and the warlock had half anyone's damage in 4th.

[formal thunder]

guy doing god's work crubching the numbers, must have taken a few pages of handwritten notes to figure out what Outlaw's expected gain was

[radiant wyvern]

10% dev ?

and their aoe spec is like the same as st?

[mystic berry]

guy should be hired as the rogue dev

[radiant wyvern]

HO talent +50% buff

[mystic berry]

Emergency hotfix

[timid zephyr]

so mafic has been saying rogues are getting massive Ws

true or true?

[remote pecan]

4%? No

[timid zephyr]

damn mafic lied to me

[limpid isle]

https://tenor.com/view/new-jack-city-nino-brown-crying-wesley-snipes-90s-gif-11704574835427721276

[mystic berry]

W after W and will continue to receive more

@untold wadi

[timid zephyr]

atleast sub will get a pretty decent tier set?

[mystic berry]

so we open vault with sub loot?

to fish for oh

[cinder relic]

If a spec does 5k damage, and gets an 8k tier set, vs a spec that deals 15k damage and gets a 4k tier set

Which spec is better?

[vivid vessel]

sub

next question

[formal thunder]

who's who in that scenario?

[cinder relic]

I'm saying that having a good tier set doesn't mean Ur spec is good

[gleaming reef]

2nd one

[formal thunder]

ah, so rogue and everyone else, got it

[gleaming reef]

Having good tier set is just a bandaid

[vivid vessel]

unless

the spec is sub

proven multiple tiers in a row !

[timid zephyr]

do i reroll frost mage or demo

[cinder relic]

The issue is rogue doesn't solve encounters this tier

It's not like mfo

[untold wadi]

u rang the goat

[cinder relic]

Sub doesn't "just burst something down"

[timid zephyr]

is that popo

[cinder relic]

Sin is getting a bigger buff, top sub logs already have their tier set

I think sin is gonna be solid af this tier

[vivid vessel]

actually

thats why i think sub could be good

but

sub does burst down adds in p1 of last boss

[wild pelican]

guys guys, it doesnt matter. you dont play outlaw to pump. you play outlaw to have a blicky and you can gamble

[vivid vessel]

and it has cds on the last add

that other people dont rn

[surreal flower]

Orbs on dragons are quivering in their boots at the thought of my black powder casts rn

[vivid vessel]

which could be important

or could be not

who knows

[cinder relic]

I think alleria could be either way

The specs do different things

[vivid vessel]

i think its just

[cinder relic]

But I think it's really incorrect to just say "it's a sub tier"

[vivid vessel]

if the last phase is 2min30 its assa

if its 3min30

[loud blaze]

I just wish they would come out in the open and say, "We think rogue has been too good in previous expansions. We have put our energy into other classes this season."

[vivid vessel]

its sub

thats my thinking rn

because both spec do the same st really

it just dependfs on which one get more cds in

tho the boss could be completly different in mythic

i have no clue

[cinder relic]

If it's 3:30 it could be assa, cuz execute dm is broken

But yes, kill timers will matter ofc

[vivid vessel]

well ye but you would get only 1 cd in exec

and sub would get 3 cds

[severe charm]

alleria feels like an assa fight more than anything

[vivid vessel]

i think one more sub cd is just more damage than assa at that point

[mystic berry]

vibes balancing

[vivid vessel]

assa feels useless in p1 tho

sub also get 2 cds in p2 rn

while assa dont

obviously its

its hc

so idk

how it will change in mythic

[severe charm]

true, but there is no hard enrage in p1 as far as we know

[vivid vessel]

but on paper rn sub is better on every phase but last

and on last if sub get 3 cds it would prolly get better aswell

than 2 cd assa

[vivid vessel]

i mean ye but

[severe charm]

and you can't sleep on that execute damage assa gets

[vivid vessel]

there was no hard engage in p1 dimmy

either

[cinder relic]

Just depends where u want rogue to be useful

If the entire fight is fake except execute then u play sin

[vivid vessel]

you cant just take a whole raid of uiseless p1 specs for example

[severe charm]

i mean the most useful place for us at the moment is not in the raid lol

[vivid vessel]

woudlnt work

[cinder relic]

If u need more p1 damage sub helps

[cinder relic]

Ppl cope but atro is still good

Ur going to play 1 rogue

And rogue isn't that bad on alleria

[vivid vessel]

and that rogue is me

outalw

[fossil lintel]

And when would you play outlaw?

[severe charm]

i stand by the fact that we are just the butter passing robot from rick & morty xept is attroph

[vivid vessel]

maybe on guardian

maybe not

[cinder relic]

Genuinely every other boss outlaw is equal to or better

[fossil lintel]

I mean on that boss

[cinder relic]

On alleria not at all

[fossil lintel]

It's joever

[vivid vessel]

in my opinion rn its

• 1st boss outlaw
• 2nd boss assa or outlaw, depends on gear and which does more st, rn i cant really tell (if adds are an issue outlaw helps killing them while asa dont tho)
• 3rd is outlaw or sub if you need to swap to adds, otherwise either does more st between the 3
• dragon looks bonker for assa for some reason but idk im not sure yet
• vanguard seems to be even between assa and outlaw rn

[severe charm]

and isn't attroph worthless if most of the damage for mythic alleria comes from environment

[cinder relic]

My grandma had wheels she'd be a bike as well

Atrophic does work on alleria

[elder sonnet]

should i spend my hero crests on my crafted wep?

[loud blaze]

will you eventually use mythic crests on it?

[vivid vessel]

WHADEFUCK NERF ROGUE

[elder sonnet]

@loud blaze maybe idk tbh, wowhead mentions its best to use your crests on weps

[severe charm]

we can't even be top on our own g'damn debuff area

[loud blaze]

I thought I heard on a video that if you use crests on a weapon you don't get them back if you use higher level crests later.
Then again, I don't know and you should listen to the people here who know what they're doing...😅

[elder sonnet]

not sure either but im seeing alot of people use their crests on the wep

i could use them for the boots i crafted

[loud blaze]

I checked a couple different AI, they both said that using hero crests on crafted items end up wasted if you recraft later with mythic.

[vivid vessel]

yes dont do that

[loud blaze]

Personally it would take me a long while to get enough mythic crests for the weapon.

[vivid vessel]

you get them doing m+ no ?

hc is very important this tier

you should not waste them

[cinder relic]

Don't waste crests/gold on heroic weapon

Save for mythic crests

[elder sonnet]

i see

[copper radish]

Time to make a mythic wep this week 🔥

[cursive gyro]

I crafted my dagger at hero last week. Plan on making a mythic MH this week.

[elder sonnet]

y'all pumped for that juicy 4% buff?

[copper radish]

My Devourer got a 10% amped for that

[cursive gyro]

how much overall does this come out to be?

[copper radish]

4%

[cursive gyro]

that's not too bad then.

[elder sonnet]

we take it like good boys

[elder river]

I giggled

[lucid sparrow]

cant wait for next week

[copper radish]

Are we getting buffs again

[mystic berry]

Yes

Nothing but Ws for rogue

[karmic gust]

In addition of the 4% ?

[brittle pelican]

are there any auto marker addons out there?

for dungeons

[proven ocean]

Blue post % doesnt match the real dps gain

[loud blaze]

I still don't totally understand the SS/PS rule for fatebound. If says if you have 6 stacks of opportunity to use PS, but why not just keep using SS to get to 6 cps?

[proven ocean]

U have trinkets and stats and many things that masks it

[formal thunder]

just macro your chosen mark into every ability. With outlaw having one of the highest APM, your mark will be on your target most of the time, so you're automatically on the right target

[cinder relic]

cuz ps does more damage

[vivid vessel]

csot less energy mostly

and generate more energy

its a very efficient builder

[icy cedar]

i just saw the livestreamfail clip, is that Foreverguy or the other rogue

also that is not a crashout at all

[cinder relic]

Other rogue

[loud blaze]

OH, I see. I figured I was missing something. I should read the tooltip closer...

[proven ocean]

Theres another rogue called guy?

[formal knot]

imagine calling yourself Guy. You would be known Forever as Guy

[raven gust]

This is my first time maining a rogue since Cata and I’m loving the Outlaw playstyle. More than Assassination and Sub, that’s for sure.

[cinder relic]

its fun!

[proven ocean]

its fun!

[naive river]

if you dont look at numbers i think the class feels great to play

[vivid vessel]

i think external to wow people might not be used

to what wow raiding is

i mean i do think the guy was a bit disrespectful but

its kinda whatever

[raven gust]

Yeah, the numbers can take a flying fuck into a jet engine.

[vivid vessel]

my raid leader insults us perma

part of the charm of it

[icy cedar]

it's a necessary part of the role

[proven ocean]

I think

If my prev raid leader said one of his 1000 insults

He’d get banned on all discord servers

[river maple]

is wowhead just going to be overall BIS no more mythic + BIS ?

[icy cedar]

when i first hit 90 and played outlaw, it felt awful, but then with more gear, it started feeling much better.

[formal thunder]

My RL is too much of a carebear, but makes the moments he snaps at someone all the better

[raven gust]

I’m sitting at 252 ilvl and the spec feels great. Still wish it had more DPS but we gotta roll with what we have I guess.

[fervent garden]

exzactly. 24 haste and a good ilev feels just fine.

[naive river]

its up

game is up

[icy cedar]

I do think that whole "rtb and adr pause while stealthed" thing was a good QoL we should have kept

[glass mortar]

6 slots of hero track garbage with vers on all of it vs champ track tier chest

starting off strong this season

[formal thunder]

at leat you're 1 step closer to 4 set for unlocking catalyst drops