outlaw

[vivid vessel]

ye and we are mid on them

[unkempt dew]

We suck

[zinc briar]

Rannz, are u human?

Are u a bot?

[ionic citrus]

No I'ma robot

[vivid vessel]

what are we even discussing rn

[ionic citrus]

As all outlaw players must be.

[vivid vessel]

im confusing

are we arguing rogues arent mid

[ionic citrus]

I'm not.

[vivid vessel]

its legit dog to mid at most

[bold anvil]

If i play off my nuts and am perfect i'll be top 10 in a raid

lol

[cinder relic]

I would define it as mid. Still has raid buff, can still "just be st" the class

[vivid vessel]

@cinder relic nice tweet buddy

[cinder relic]

It needs a buff, it's not in a good spot

[bold anvil]

time to roll a ret pally

[proven ocean]

@cinder relic nice tweet buddy

[proven ocean]

Wtf is a tweet btw

[vivid vessel]

ye you tell him

[vivid vessel]

isnt that funny btw

that elon guy renamed twitter to x

and no one calls twitter x

[zinc briar]

Mid sht is what we are

[proven ocean]

Ya

[vivid vessel]

and everyone still call a tweet a tweet

wtf are you supopsed to call a tweet even

[ionic citrus]

Can you edit this and remove vessel please? Let's pretend it doesn't exists so we don't keep picking shit up to the ground again

[vivid vessel]

a x?

ye bro im xing

[proven ocean]

Imagine calling a tweet x

[zinc briar]

And ofc our set Will be the worst?

[proven ocean]

@cinder relic yo nice x buddy

[vivid vessel]

nice xing

big x

[proven ocean]

xweet

or

Idk

[vivid vessel]

let me x that actually

[proven ocean]

Yeye

Im gonna x about x not being a tweet anymore

[lavish siren]

@copper radish Lfr overall/ last boss😭

[vivid vessel]

bro you are blasting gg !

[copper radish]

outlaw nerfs inc thanks

meanwhile my devourer middle of pack gonna be getting 10% ST inc on tuesday LOL

[cinder relic]

25% hotfix buff to dk

[vivid vessel]

i think outlaw need a 10% buff to bf and a 10% aura buff

thats my take

thank you

[fluid crown]

Caustic spatter buff tyvm

[vivid vessel]

also for next tier it needs 2 charge of adr, being able to equip daggers main hand and execute

do it now blizzard !

hotfix

[keen belfry]

how do amps work with bf? probs do nothing right?> like if boss has dmg amp you arent cleaving for more right?

[vivid vessel]

yes

thats true for everything that copy damage that way

spatter and nimble flurry

should work the same

[keen belfry]

same with like, arcane barrage?

[vivid vessel]

everything like that

idk what arcane barrage is

[keen belfry]

its a barrage of arcane magic

[waxen scarab]

!log

help

[zinc briar]

I think outlaw needs, 12% all dmg, bf uncaped with energy cost reduced to 0 and cooldown reduced 2 or 3 secs

also breaking cp reduces your evasion and feint 0 energy cost

🙂

[vivid vessel]

i mena i was serious tho

[zinc briar]

me to

[fluid crown]

Dagger mh is the most welcome change tyvm Zac

[keen belfry]

Dagger main hand as outlaw!

New tech?

[fluid crown]

Yeah, it sims quite well

[zinc briar]

and poison should reduce enemy damage by 7-8%

to be picked in m+

or smoke bomb back

[keen belfry]

how can oultaw be good at low target cleave and no OP at 8?

[fluid crown]

Exposing strikes: The rogues strikes exposes weak points in the enemy's defense. Increasing all party/raid member's critical strike chance by 3%

[vivid vessel]

idk if serious question

[zinc briar]

why not? outlaw should be the best dps in raid, we are neever good

[keen belfry]

in its current state

serious Q

i cant fathom it

[red zinc]

very cool talent called

precise cuts

[keen belfry]

mhm

[red zinc]

great removal

[keen belfry]

but precise cuts weird too

literaly cursed design

passive cleave is impossible

[vivid vessel]

i mean idk i also never asked to be the best spec in the game at 3 target

but we also are not a spec that scale more than others with more targets

somes specs have an upward curve scaling in aoe

with number of targets

its not our case

we just get +30% per target rn

[elfin tusk]

In this senario is it better to

A: sinister strike, then either pistol shot or not based on double hit proc, to avoid overcapping combo points then BTE
or
B: Pistol shot, then sinister strike to avoid overcapping opp, then BTE

Ignore adren or blade fury etc

[vivid vessel]

also serious question but

why shouldnt outlaw be op at 8 target

[keen belfry]

u ps at 6

[vivid vessel]

may i remind the audience we are target capped

for some reason

[keen belfry]

i agree

i mean im biased i think we should be one of the best specs in game from 2-8

[vivid vessel]

like why are we target capped if we arent better than uncapped specs at litteraly every target count

[vivid vessel]

idk

would make sense since we are the only target capped spec

and we dont have cds

[keen belfry]

yes tahts why

[fluid crown]

Higher highs, lower lows, you are currently in a low

[rose kernel]

And what global after?

[vivid vessel]

hm

[keen belfry]

SS

[brave lagoon]

target cap is fine

[elfin tusk]

So not overcapping opp is more prio than not overcapping combo points?

[keen belfry]

yeah

this version of outlaw wastes combo points

you could also just send that BTE at 5

but i wont do that

the difference is mininamall.

[keen belfry]

thats why i think it, if we dont have cds and are capped our nice should be sub 8 cleave

which means being very good at all of it

[elfin tusk]

So is ps, dispatch at 5, then ss into BTE/ps->BTE also worse? that woulld avoid overcapping anyhtinmg, but delay BTE 2-3 gcds

[zinc briar]

Also they should give us back Acrobatic Strikes

why dont let us have fun?

[keen belfry]

this will elad to a lot of BTE cdr wasted

[zinc briar]

i miss that talent so much

[keen belfry]

both gcds and cdr from spending combo points

dont do this

the only time u save BTE is when AR has 30ish seconds left on cd

but dont worry about that yet

[patent mirage]

we should have a poll for which talent we def want back lol

like acro , wits etc

[keen belfry]

crackshot

[patent mirage]

acro will return in the future

when blizz wants to shut us up

[zinc briar]

crackshout sucks for m+

[keen belfry]

theyd have to listen to us for them to be annoyed by us

[patent mirage]

crackshout more like cracking

[zinc briar]

i preffer a playstyle not based in stealth with random tanks

[vivid vessel]

what

it wasnt based on stealth

lol

[zinc briar]

u need to restealth after pulls

[vivid vessel]

no

i was asking my tank for no restealth

[keen belfry]

u just need to hit things u dont need restealth

[vivid vessel]

perma pulls

[zinc briar]

yes ofc

we want perma chain

but when tank dont do it

[vivid vessel]

restealth is the most cope thing ever

[zinc briar]

an pulls with 1 mob missing

[vivid vessel]

who cares

[zinc briar]

u are full enrage

[vivid vessel]

hit the mob

lol

it litteraly doesnt matter at all

you just grapple to next pack gg

same thing

[zinc briar]

also they should give us back the vanish reduce

[vivid vessel]

getting a restealht is turbo useless

it was legit

[zinc briar]

ofc, perma chain is the best

with outlaw

[vivid vessel]

chaining a mob at 1 hp

didnt matter

either

[zinc briar]

but when u play with pickups and they are slow doing it..

[vivid vessel]

biggest cope ever

you just go anywya

what does it change

you hit new pack

just dont stand afk

and nothing bad happen

[gleaming reef]

you reckon the 4% aura buff and talent change make us competitive dps?

[zinc briar]

also the uptime in raid...

when u have to do mechanics

[vivid vessel]

the talent change?

[keen belfry]

talent change is in .5

[vivid vessel]

you mean ace

[zinc briar]

being in crackshot window..

[vivid vessel]

ace is a nerf most likely

[gleaming reef]

oh ace is in .5?

[zinc briar]

u want to delete the game

[vivid vessel]

i liked crackshot to be able to do mechanics :D

just hold a vanish for mech

[gleaming reef]

crackshot was like our only "burst"

[vivid vessel]

vanish bte ps bte bte bte ps bte

gg

you never lost uptime

[keen belfry]

crackshot.,..

[vivid vessel]

banger spec

[gleaming reef]

why in the world would they remove crackshot 🙁

[left jay]

it scares me to think we may never see crackshot again

there should be a crackshot memorial role in this discord

[zinc briar]

nah yes tbh crackshot was fun hahaha

[cinder relic]

buff demo

[zinc briar]

but i preffer bf uncapped

[brave lagoon]

dude was afk for the whole pull lmao

[zinc briar]

i want to do dmg in big pulls

[keen belfry]

tww outlaw with new rtb

down

[zinc briar]

like academy

[cinder relic]

Because a handful of people didn't like that the spec was so tethered to vanish to do damage

[zinc briar]

who wants a rogue in AAcademy

i had to reset the details after 1st pull when we played AA

As outlaw

[keen belfry]

i never understood the stealth thing at all, youre playing a rogue and also it doesnt feel like you are stealth weaving

[brave lagoon]

shhh it's alright now, it's all tumbleweed bte from now

[slim hare]

To be faire a handful of player is how you would describe the player base of outlaw compared to other spec

[river wing]

Chimerus is a fully ST fight, right?

[solar iron]

no

[river wing]

damn
what to play for it, the M+ build or ST with Deft?

[twin steeple]

Warcraftlogs show most popular builds for each boss. You can also check RWF players talents as their splits logs are public

[vivid vessel]

aoe is fine i think

[cinder relic]

Eh

[river wing]

aight ty

[lusty locust]

What raid buffs does outlaw prefer in terms of strong to weak, I know it’s always MOTW and battle shout, mastery and Mt but is there a this is the best to eh helps 😂

[vivid vessel]

shaman > warrior > monk

[vivid vessel]

this is the diff between st and aoe build in st rn

its not that bad anymore

used to be way worse in tww s3

like 20% almost

[slim hare]

hey

do you have a link for the rogue feedback ?

[vivid vessel]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogue-feedback-thread-for-patch-1205/2271246/32

[slim hare]

its only us forum ?

so if i don't have a us character i can't comment?

like for real ?

[vivid vessel]

its not official

anyway

[slim hare]

yeah make sense x)

[quaint mauve]

brother it is

an aoe fight

im too lazy to get up but

i can show what i went when i get up

but i lowkey just copied what the top logs had

[river wing]

yeah we killed it already

[jolly geyser]

they dont read eu

[river wing]

it's kinda aoe but tanks weren't great at grouping stuff up

if they were better, it'd be easier to cleave all of it

[frail veldt]

im almost convinced at this point hes trolling on purpose

[patent mirage]

wat

[quaint mauve]

😭

[dim widget]

who is that

why are people allowed to spread misinformation on official forums

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel i hope u sleep and wake up to a cat meowing at ur face

[fathom bramble]

unfortunately the forums don't moderate for quality of posts

only for aggression and offtopic posting

it lets people that don't have any idea what is going on essentially talk everyone else out of the forums

through insane persistence of incorrect statements

[dim widget]

@untold wadi

check check

[untold wadi]

Czech 🇨🇿

[bold spindle]

what's the dungeon talent build?

[untold wadi]

real

[dim widget]

stop spreading misinformation sir

[untold wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1402352667464040569/1480155122498797658/wasupdud.png

7 min too long

[dim widget]

🏄‍♂️

[untold wadi]

ye

ban this guy

should be illegal to have 80000 posts or whatever and be so blatant

its like asking an llm to populate a database with information, u just get junk

tbf he prolly a bot

[frail veldt]

hes almost too uniquely stupid to be a bot

like how do you make a bot so authenticly dumb

[untold wadi]

its just depressing

like bro people are reading this

i just cant w this guy

[frail veldt]

🏄 🏄‍♀️

[slim hare]

i mean if its a real guy

he's the definition of terminally online

[fathom bramble]

it's just very confusing to me

to be so invested in the forums for a game you evidently barely play

[frail veldt]

yeah its strange cuz like they reference real things in the game

[fathom bramble]

like there's people in here that have more post hours than Mafic just in this discord

[inland acorn]

less predictable with prep

[frail veldt]

but they like dont exactly understand how it works

[fathom bramble]

but it's people that actually have a reason to be invested

[frail veldt]

maybe it is a bot honestly

[lime lake]

hes just so based tbh

nah i really believe its an actual person

[fathom bramble]

well he is right that after losing all our good tools for fighting elites prep allows us to get the extra push to successfully kill something

[lime lake]

whether its them going out of their way to be like this or its just how they naturally are idk though

[inland acorn]

I mean that part is fine but

Part about making outlaw less predictable with prep

[fathom bramble]

yeah idk

[inland acorn]

What is less predictable

[fathom bramble]

you could reset AR at any time for 2 'go' windows in a row in pvp

if AR was strong enough to be a go window lol

but that's just not how it works in practice at all

it's the kind of thing that sounds like it could be possible from the perspective of someone that hasn't actually tried it imo

[craggy barn]

reset ur cds whenever u want, no one knows when ull do it not even u!

[fathom bramble]

except it's like the most predictable thing ever to use AR a 2nd time if you manage to burn key defensives

since everyone would know you have prep

[frail veldt]

It's not lol

[lime lake]

i have prep bound to a foot pedal i leave on my desk, and it gets pressed whenever my cat feels like walking over it

[frail veldt]

Zero in is our burst in pvp

[lime lake]

very unpredictable

[untold wadi]

guy has to be 50 and on the brink of insanity to be this confident in himself lol

[fathom bramble]

yeah

I'm just like

trying to understand how onecould make that statement

and believe it to be true

[final pagoda]

Is it worth to hold AR if you are at 4-5/6 gravedigger stacks?

[fathom bramble]

maybe I'm giving him too much credit

[frail veldt]

I think you're thinking that they actually think

But he probably just word vomits his vibe thoughts

Into the forums

[craggy barn]

peep the char and see what sorta content they do to see what might inform these statements

[untold wadi]

easy, 1. dont read tooltips with scrutiny and/or check out other people who educate themselves on the spec. 2. preach like u live and breath the spec

3. be 101% confidently incorrect

3 is crucial

[craggy barn]

what if someone here goes into the forums and starts spreading counter disinformation

fake disinfo thats actually real info

[fathom bramble]

trying to spread real info when people don't trust what you are saying is incredibly frustrating

[craggy barn]

just keep it up like mafic

[river wing]

bro I fucking hate this raidtier

[final pagoda]

what's real info? "wow I love how snd applies automatically with dispatch!"

[river wing]

every fucking boss but salha has massive amount of adds for padding

[fathom bramble]

imagine how good law could have been if they didn't randomly gut BF

[final pagoda]

is there a catchup mechanism for uncontaminated void sample? (i.e. the console for the voidstorm trinket). I have 2 of them and can't figure out how to get a third

[craggy barn]

thank god they tuned outlaw to be a st monster amirite

nerfing bf so that our st can shine 🙂

[fathom bramble]

weekly quest by the console and the tower defense thing are the only 2 sources afaik

and both are weekly

[final pagoda]

if I did already the tower defense and the weekly quest this week

I guess I will have to wait wed for the third power

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[final pagoda]

also lok while ur here, do u know if is worth to hold AR if you are at 4-5/6 gravedigger stacks?

so u have 2x BTE w/ supercharger?

[fathom bramble]

I don't know if anyone has checked that specific optimization

I haven't at least and it's not in the apl

it would delay AR a lot if you were at 4

especially if you don't actually load a bullet successfully one or more times on the way to 6

and a reasonable % of the time you would get 2 BTE casts on the supercharges anyway just from ace

[copper radish]

Week 1 of raids and already “aotc only” groups in LFG

[final pagoda]

wait why wouldnt you load a bullet?

[fathom bramble]

12% chance per combo point spent on dispatch

if you are spending at 5/6 there is a high chance that one of those 2 on the way to 6 don't actually load

and require a 3rd or even 4th cast of dispatch

actually the more I think about it the more the fail condition of that optimization has to kill it

imagine sitting there are 5 bullets trying to get a 6th and just missing

for like 4 dispatchees in a row

delaying AR

maybe I'll look into it in simc later though

[keen belfry]

Yeah the miss chance is too high

Me thinks

[glass mortar]

if ur close enough (like 5 stacks, maybe 4) that u would consider doing this ur likely to get ur gravedigger to proc during ur AR anyway right

and if ur following the delay bte for AR rule ur having a BtE to consume at least 1 supercharger at the start of AR anyway

i guess with bad rng its possible u dont farm BtE off cd within the duration of the AR but I feel like I usually manage too

[cobalt token]

whos goated at outlaw able to tell me wtf im doing wrong

😭

[lethal oak]

Did everyone craft their sword per discord rules?

[river wing]

at least during Salha I only lose to a demolock

every other fight is a shitshow

[peak dock]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1484624630764273745/drops.png

[cobalt token]

my best log is a vorasius 91 but only in ilvl bracket

😭

otherwise its 73

im doing shit this raid

if it was all 73s sure

but then fuck ass lightblinded vanguard 45

[static crescent]

time to bench outlaw and play my dh, better luck later down the line, cant let my homies down being tank dps

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sacred wolf]

how do I get rid of this thing

[grand nimbus]

options, spell opacity 0%

[sacred wolf]

sick thanks

[still matrix]

Is energy being low a general problem

[river wing]

fucking hell
I can't even quit this class because it's the only fun class in game

fuck blizz

[junior coral]

any one know how to move cast bar with zac ui profile?

[mystic berry]

Remember, you are here forever

[junior coral]

i cant seem to find it in the wa or cdm

[static crescent]

its gonna be a tough call next week for pug leaders, should they get a bear dps or outlaw dps

[mystic berry]

Dw

we have atro

[glass mortar]

@fathom bramble ok so valeera is like troll coded right

ive been doing more delves

and if u have her as healer and tricks tank her she will just randomly piss off for no reason and aggro all sorts of stuff

shes not mining or picking stuff up i took those powers off her

she just turns and runs away for like 5s in a random direction then comes back

why does blizzard do stuff like this

[vivid vessel]

she kite mobs around

like

idk

[glass mortar]

yea

[vivid vessel]

very weird dude

[glass mortar]

brann had a mechanic like that

but he would just disengage

and stay where he landed

she just turns and runs for like 6s

[fathom bramble]

she runs too far from literally any cone or aoe effect

[glass mortar]

i swear its on purpose

if i had a WA to track it 90% of the time it aligns with her voice line "be bolder"

shes trolling us on purpose

😠

[tired rune]

we can play

[vivid vessel]

@keen belfry

[cobalt token]

bro its so fried

😭

[keen belfry]

u see what i see? @vivid vessel

[cobalt token]

im ass parsing ass

this raid

[vivid vessel]

but even in your screen

its pixel perfect align

wdym

zoom on it

[keen belfry]

from far not zoomed in it looks off in my head

[keen belfry]

but maybe my brain is fried rn

[vivid vessel]

its not tho

[cinder relic]

I feel like

Ppl are over indexing on 25% haste

For me, haste is already falling off at 21%

[vivid vessel]

i just sim

havent looked at number

[cinder relic]

Like I'm at 21% unbuffed and crit flask > haste flask for me

[fathom bramble]

yeah crit has a lot of value and 25% is the final target not something you are rushing

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[keen belfry]

whats the best way to sim flask/gear combinations

[fathom bramble]

top gear with each flask 1 at a time

or if you have access to enough gear you will probably just default to crit flask and run a regular top gear

[cobalt token]

say that to my stats

😭

[fathom bramble]

bro you need more crit

bad

[cobalt token]

very very aware

[fathom bramble]

very unlucky

[cobalt token]

yeah

i havent gotten a single raid item

and in general i just get given haste

[cobalt token]

it MIGHT be the reason

im parsing around 30

on heroic

😭

[still matrix]

loktark how you dont perma have low energy

[fathom bramble]

wdym

[cobalt token]

for a second i thought it was me being shit

and not my stats

[fathom bramble]

I have enough haste that's all it really takes

[cobalt token]

and then i realized what my stats were

coz of this convo

[fathom bramble]

in the nicest way possible I would like to say that 30% is probably not fully explainable just by stats

you could look to improve your play as well and it would likely yield better results still

[cobalt token]

oh 100% isnt

[inland meteor]

can i look at the logs of some blaster outlaw in here if anyone got any

[fathom bramble]

both my characters(Loktark, Buffoutlaw) are public logged

[inland meteor]

what realm?

[fathom bramble]

stormreaver

US

[inland meteor]

man im fucking ass what is this

[inland acorn]

Isn't there a string to sim consumables in tc chat ?

[keen belfry]

maybe

[cobalt token]

ong any chance you could help

coz idk

what im doing wrong

genuinely

[fathom bramble]

yeah

logs missing a lot of key things can make it hard to nail down what is wrong, but generally outlaw mistakes are just delaying GCDs/cooldowns

you can't easily track in logs if someone delayed BTE/AR for an extended period of time

[inland meteor]

is there anything clearly wrong in mine? ive only done normal so far https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/antonidas/cornflake?

[cobalt token]

is there a way to see

ar uptime

in logs

[gaunt phoenix]

You didnt use preparation

But you have it talented

On voracsciuous

[cobalt token]

coz my bte is fine i think

[amber ibex]

can i use dagger off hasnd

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes dagger is better even

[cobalt token]

96% uptime on bte

[inland meteor]

yeah im not used to prep, i keep forgetting it

thats for sure something clearly wrong

[cobalt token]

oh yeah my ar is uhh

40% uptime

and my bte 96%

[gaunt phoenix]

Bte will always have high uptime overall

[fluid meadow]

is there any downtime at vorasius?

[gaunt phoenix]

But it's an overlapping buff

[fathom bramble]

it looks like you had at least one instance of casting a generator after gravedigger gave combo points

it's rough on voracious from the travel time on the projectile so I recommend tracking gravedigger stacks

so you know when it is going to happen

[bold patio]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[noble moon]

what are some common issues with single target in m+ spec that i could be making that makes my st so dogshit

[inland meteor]

yeah fair will do that

[radiant kelp]

guys

solar and heart of wind are correct atm?

from m+

[keen belfry]

my sim doesnt care if i use crit or haste flask

[restive mango]

fucking up rtb, fucking up bte, fucking up kir, fucking up BR

[keen belfry]

at 21%

[gaunt phoenix]

common mistakes might be using finishers at wrong cps, not following builder priority exactly, losing cdr by using finishers when cd conditions are ready

like @inland meteor you keep opening with AR BTE when you should blade rush and possibly KIR before bte

[noble moon]

my brain is empty whats kir

[gaunt phoenix]

Keep it rolling

[glass anvil]

how much dps loss is trickster vs outlaw in m+?

[inland meteor]

so blade rush -> AR -> rtb -> kir -> bte?

[gaunt phoenix]

Your kir immediately at stage 2 or higher though there is an optimization to skip stage 2 specifically if you know your next roll will have loaded dice

Like the opener in raid, if you open with stage 2, you will use preparation anyway so your next roll will have loaded dice, so you can skip kir until the next roll

[cinder relic]

I'm using double crit damage enchant so that probs skews it

[keen belfry]

makes sense

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble

[gaunt phoenix]

AR RTB BR (KIR) BTE

[vivid vessel]

mopuseover bte on dragon

is very value me think

cause

[inland meteor]

ah

[vivid vessel]

bf always cover orbs anywya

you either bf and it will go onto adds

or have bf from adds

i think its value !

me think !

[fathom bramble]

yeah probably

[inland meteor]

alright will keep that in mind, thanks - lots of other stuff to improve but its a start

[noble moon]

i use dispatch at this many or more

[gaunt phoenix]

That's right

[noble moon]

and then bte at this many or more

[restive mango]

ive been working hard on my ST as well. lots of contingencies and micromanaging those cds on top of the core rotational rules. i hit a dummy until I reach flow state

[gaunt phoenix]

You dont need to track fatebound coin stuff, it's just noise

[noble moon]

is there any sort of rules around using supercharged cp? or is it same cp rules like dispatch at 5

obvi prio bte but if its not up

[tranquil totem]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[gaunt phoenix]

It's the same rules, you ignore the effective cps

[clever wasp]

@vivid vessel WE ARE SO BACK

[inland meteor]

yeah for sure, but in raids/dungeons its so chaotic its hard to keep the flow state going

maybe im just old

[gaunt phoenix]

Like you dont finish at 2 if it will supercharge to 5

You finish at 5 like normal and it supercharges to 8

[noble moon]

yeah, just checking we dont save dispatch to 7

or smth

if the scaling went crazy

ty

[gaunt phoenix]

There is an optimization to hold bte for an upcoming supercharge

[restive mango]

indeed. thats why I do the dummy work so itll come back to me when its chaotic like a reflex. you also just can't control dungeon pulls like raid pulls. I actually have preferred sub in dungeons for this reason. outlaw has more setup

[gaunt phoenix]

If AR CD is under 30s or so

[inland meteor]

maybe i just need to spend 8 hours straight on the dummy

[restive mango]

sounds like a good time

[vivid vessel]

what de helly !

[restive mango]

I do think outlaw is just better in this raid rn

[obsidian light]

small question on deadly pursuit since the top parses are using it, do I have to consciously let it trigger by hindering my dps or finishers or is it there just for downtime in the raid? Im confused

[gaunt phoenix]

No you do nothing

[twilit topaz]

I feel that, i'm messing somthing up in my rotation. Really struggling atm.

[gaunt phoenix]

Deadly pursuit is a terrible talent that sometimes activates when you have downtime

It's not related to high parses in any way

[twilit topaz]

What Combo points do we BTE at?

[inland meteor]

for me it feels good, like everything flows well and the spec feels nice

but then i look at my logs and its all blue

[trail galleon]

1up

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1484624630764273745/drops.png

[inland meteor]

im not even having energy issues anymore

[obsidian light]

alright sounds like what i expected tbh

[restive mango]

well this is a lot of things. your kill times can do this

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/rigby-cat-rigby-the-cat-67-67-meme-gif-790679381357533721

[glass mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/vi-vii-67-meme-67-gif-9260765058471090214

[noble moon]

do yall log review

[crimson scarab]

can someone share the APM graph for the specs ?

[fallen quail]

Lol no assassin is funny

[mystic berry]

69

the boomer 6 7

[vivid vessel]

same apm as sub ..

boomer spec

[fathom bramble]

why does the dev apl automatically cast hover ?

[vivid vessel]

padding apm

[fathom bramble]

apm padding to make them not look so doomed 🤔

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix

thoughts on not holding bte for adr when apex is there ..

[gritty hamlet]

Does anyone have envy of Valeera's Killing Spree?

[mystic berry]

I have envy of valeera dps at times

[gritty hamlet]

Her aoe dps does go brrr

[mystic berry]

I wasnt aware she had killing spree

its the old one?

[fathom bramble]

she jumps to random enemies like we did

but it actually does damage

[keen belfry]

this is my rule

i play this usually

[fathom bramble]

also valeera takes like 90% reduced aoe damage

[random stirrup]

zacariah

is there a new replacement for the no sc thing

[fathom bramble]

so all normal downsides of KS get to be ignored for her ofc

[random stirrup]

i am stupid and forget perma

[keen belfry]

do u use m33k auras ryld

[vivid vessel]

no this is mine

[random stirrup]

no am noob

still on arcui

[keen belfry]

ur probs cooked then

[vivid vessel]

therer is

in my ui

imagine not using zacuwui

[random stirrup]

[keen belfry]

i told u this is why i track palmed bullets bro

[gritty hamlet]

I made dps Valeera tank ?? on my priest and she's near immortal too lol.

[vivid vessel]

couldnt be me

[vivid vessel]

sounds fake

i just thought of that rule myself

cause im very much smarter than you

get owned bud

[random stirrup]

I will probably swap at some point

we are needing to cook some things rn

[vivid vessel]

to zacuwui?

ye

i would

if i were you

its just so much better

[random stirrup]

yes i will come home eventually

[vivid vessel]

waiting for you

[gritty hamlet]

Actually wanted to ask, can healer Valeera survive if you permanently tricks her against the Nemesis ?? fight?

[keen belfry]

[fathom bramble]

they seem to have nerfed this early in the week

[random stirrup]

we will talk about guidon sub stuff at some point

is probably the only hard thing spec has atm

[fathom bramble]

it worked very well at the start, but now she just dies in like 25 seconds

[random stirrup]

i need new tracking bars and no room to put them

[vivid vessel]

i swear i didnt read that

lol

[gritty hamlet]

Alas, so only priests get to make dps Valeera tank with fade.

[keen belfry]

it makes sense in my head

[vivid vessel]

wtf is guidon bro

[random stirrup]

it's french word u should know!

[vivid vessel]

what its just a trinket

[random stirrup]

ye but there's snapshot tech

[gritty hamlet]

I honestly don't know what a guidon is. A banner or some sorts is my guess?

[proven ocean]

u track bullets now?? @vivid vessel

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMEGAGIGACAUGHT

!

[keen belfry]

i also think tracking bnulklets is mandadaatoroy

cuz the whole bte porojectivle bs

[proven ocean]

ur cooked gnawa

[keen belfry]

ty

in good way?

[proven ocean]

np

yes ofc

[glass mortar]

i feel like theres only 1 boss this tier its noticably laggy on

[keen belfry]

ty

[glass mortar]

but it is really annoying

[gritty hamlet]

I need to play outlaw more but it's so hard when Sub can just burst anything faster than Outlaw can get rolling in world content

[restive mango]

gonna be even harder when we all have 4 pc and sub gets 15% more from it

[gritty hamlet]

Like I know Outlaw's niche is sustain damage so it's never gonna win in short fights against rares and stuff, but 🙁

I also feel squishy as outlaw

[restive mango]

yeah we used to be a vers class

[fathom bramble]

we lost basically all the tools outlaw had that were law specific for fighting elites unfortunately

perhaps the worst melee for fighting elites now

between very limited defensive options, small healing, and no burst

remember to kidney shot

it's like the one thing we have

unless the elite in question is immune then gg

[glass mortar]

you used to be able to sustain thru the gaps in ur evasions that u earned back with cdr to beat the big elites

now if its not dead by the time u ran out of gas u just get stat checked by autos

it is what it is

[gritty hamlet]

Would figure they finally fix transmog when using a dagger off hand it's when I can play Outlaw least and I can double swords it up as Sin and Sub

[gaunt phoenix]

wdym, wouldnt apex make holding better, so you get guaranteed 2 supercharged bte

[vivid vessel]

i think most of the value of supercharged bte is in the ace reset no ?

@fathom bramble

we cant do lfr splits

cause its not cross faction

?

[fathom bramble]

yeah

you are limited to bad splits since you have to split alli and horcde

[vivid vessel]

crazy bro

[quaint mauve]

so from the 3 crown parses up for outlaw

i cant get a clear answer

of whether i should be specced for aoe

or ST

[fathom bramble]

yeah idk either

[quaint mauve]

@vivid vessel can i get ur wisdom on this matter

[vivid vessel]

idk

[fathom bramble]

I suspect aoe will parse higher

ST will be better for having a higher chance of successfully finishing the encounter

[vivid vessel]

we lose 5% st

with aoe builds

so its like

its not dramatic

also bte mouseover in p2

[fathom bramble]

last phase has no aoe and has a very real dps check rn

[vivid vessel]

yes

[fathom bramble]

p2 adds were tending to die before our arrows hit them and allowed them to actually die

if that makes sense

p1 who cares

fake phase

[quaint mauve]

ima start off with aoe spec then

with

[vivid vessel]

thing is

[quaint mauve]

prep

[vivid vessel]

we lose so little st now

im unsure

[quaint mauve]

im assuming taking deft would be bad though yes?

[tender breach]

for crafted sword we go crit haste?

[fathom bramble]

I felt like deft was hurting more than it helped especially in p2

[quaint mauve]

ima opt for the stamina talent over it then

heard its a rough fight for heals

well ill check back in after its dead

ill tell yall whether i claw my eyes out or not

[vivid vessel]

its worht it in 2 target tho

so idk

i think even if it feels bad

its better

[fathom bramble]

yeah possibly

I also kind of wanted the max life

[quaint mauve]

soooo maybe i dont opt in for stamina over it

[fathom bramble]

and it's impossible to tell how good the downtime talent is so maybe you drop that idk

that fight was destroying me

[quaint mauve]

hmmm

theres so much to think abt

i think stamina is the play

i felt pretty squishy in other fights so

[glass mortar]

ud need to proc the downtime passive 18 times to get 1 full reset of adr worth of cdr

[fathom bramble]

the boss targetted me with over half of her dot applications for some reason on our kill

[glass mortar]

at full value each time

[fathom bramble]

I was on deaths door like 5 times

13 dot applications when the other rogue gets 4 🤔

in p2

[glass mortar]

idk if its even giving u an extra usage with partial timers on any of these fights

[vivid vessel]

i never play that

its not a real talent lok

10s cdr over 15s

over 5

idk

forgot

the number

its 10s

its useless

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7cT1YQFtVjZ12mTkqzfYAu @fathom bramble actually i lied its a loss there

idk why

i remember it being a gain on 2 target

idk what i checked last time

[fathom bramble]

did you check before they added the energy cost?

[vivid vessel]

nono

i checked this week

idk what i checked then

[fathom bramble]

weird

[vivid vessel]

oh maybe i was checking dancing steel rahter than deft actually

i dont rmemeber

ye i might be confused with dancing steel maybe

[fathom bramble]

it definitely didn't feel very good at 2

[vivid vessel]

you clear with arrows

[fathom bramble]

I was

it got applied 13 times

[vivid vessel]

skill issue me think

[vivid vessel]

seems like its not ye

start being good at 3

1% at 3

[fathom bramble]

I cleared on literally every arrow cast and took almost the most damage from the dot in the entire raid @vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

well

we dont have passive dr so

that kinda make sense

even if you werent being blasted

[fathom bramble]

wait no I took literally the most in p2 lol

[vivid vessel]

huge !

send log

[fathom bramble]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6BVgn7MH4yYh3WDG?fight=last&type=damage-taken&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24casts%241%240.0.0.Any%24240430.0.0.Boss%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%241237614^0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24224461975.0.0.Rogue%24false%241237038^0%24Separate%24%23a04D8A%24damage%241%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24224461975.0.0.Rogue%24false%241237729&ability=1237040

looong link

I was occasionally getting double hit by the ricochet because you can't see where it's going

I blame the fight designers

mitigated 11%

lowest % mitigation in the entire raid to the dot

I guess danger sense and tempted fate don''t count as % mitigation and are absorbs instead though

[vivid vessel]

unlucky

[fathom bramble]

6 of those are last phase on everyone

it looks even worse if you compare p2 only

[vivid vessel]

wtf

these people in the bottom

how do they do it

[fathom bramble]

just don't get targetted apparently

[vivid vessel]

i guess it target twice > you can clear etc etc

and they get targeed on second set everytime

litteraly imune

!

[fathom bramble]

wait the same people are high/low on our wipe

both good pulls

for dots applied

[vivid vessel]

p2 only

for all fights

i sense some fuckery

you know like

the thing about player guid or whatever

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

or based on whoever joined group first

[fathom bramble]

something

[vivid vessel]

or hwatever other non rng thing

very good devs

20 years

[quasi warren]

the race still matters this patch? if yes, what is the best race for M+?

Still nightelf?

[fathom bramble]

panda is the best race for damage

dwarf cleanse racial is very good and might make dwarf the best for M+

[vivid vessel]

outlaw gonna die

in keys

without dwarf

its like

if you ever tried playing assa in hgih keys in tww

priory without dwarf for example

impossible

outlaw is the same now

[narrow pasture]

still hear the bells

when i fall asleep

[still matrix]

If we crafted wep. so we are kinda commited to it i guess, we're not crafting boots iguess, we gonna craft ring since there are so many crit/haste boots. Like the boe even

[waxen scarab]

i guess

[still matrix]

just seems silly to craft boots in that case

[fathom bramble]

aren't the only crit/haste boots on myth track the boe ones?

[still matrix]

maybe actually

but it's farmable

so i really think there will be a lot

like the ah is already flooded on my server group with like 30 hc boots

[fathom bramble]

well boe items are bind on pickup early still right

[still matrix]

trueeeeee

hadn't thought of that

There are a lot of crit haste rings

so maybe boots goes back to being the craft

unless you get lucky boe

[fathom bramble]

boot craft might be the only good boots you can get early

the chance that they drop as crit/haste just seems really low

[still matrix]

the pit of saron ring, nexus point ring,

thinkl march of queldenas also has a ring that is 100% drop with 2 sockets and like 300 haste

[fathom bramble]

1/6 chance of being crit/haste

assuming you even see myth boe boots at any point in your progression

[still matrix]

when are you planning on crafting loktark

after next week and see

what first mythic+ vault drops

[fathom bramble]

I don't know

boots? helm? dagger?!

the raid daggers are all bad

[gaunt phoenix]

Dagger might be the way

[fathom bramble]

and we need an offhand one

good sword from raid is super late so you probably want to open as law

which means you will never see a vault dagger either

[still matrix]

we've had 3 sparks so far right

[gaunt phoenix]

Since the darkmoon embellishments are slightly stronger than normal ones

[still matrix]

wep, ring, boots

[fathom bramble]

can easily leave crafting one as the best option for getting one

[fathom bramble]

that too

[still matrix]

guess also means

you can flex sub

if you rlly want to

[fathom bramble]

how much better are the darkmoon trinkets if you have the associated weapon craft?

[still matrix]

i thought the trinkets were ass

just weapon embellishments are deecent

[fathom bramble]

I mean look at bloodmallet/fuu sheet

they look decent if you don't have raid trinkets

[still matrix]

perhaps yer

[fathom bramble]

and/or haven't gotten them from keystone cache

[still matrix]

but like last boss raid trinket is 100% uncontested

so you are kind of 100% gonna get a good trinket

chaemerus i guess is more contested for gaze

[fathom bramble]

probably

[gaunt phoenix]

I dont think the darkmoon embellishment+trinket interaction is known

[icy hare]

Is this 4% buff a double dip for us?

with blade flurry

[still matrix]

so you just use last boss trinket and a m+ trinket

till you get gaze or plume

[fathom bramble]

no, bf isn't effected by the 4%

[gaunt phoenix]

No, blade flurry just copies your damage

[fathom bramble]

so it just dips once on the original damage

and then copies 44% of that

[still matrix]

craft dagger, ring, boots with 3 sparks unless you get gigga ring i guess in vault idk, and i guess you hold craft till you are like actually starting mythic content properly and need the power

[fathom bramble]

There is also a decent fist on 3rd boss

If the early bosses are easy I might delay craft until he dies week 1

[still matrix]

yer

[fathom bramble]

Maybe craft a myth sword

[still matrix]

if he doesnt drop

i mean daggers to be fair

are not that bad

doesnt pit of saron have a crit haste dagger

and there is a crit/vers dagger

all farmable in keys

haste/vers dagger also

idk if it's dagger craft

[fathom bramble]

Every slot is farmable in keys except boots

And that is all hero so if you don’t open vaults as sub or craft one you’ll never have a good myth dagger

[still matrix]

true but if you craft mainhand wep or have already done so, you basically just open vault as sub?

boost wep with myth crests and pray for dagger oh from m+

and with solid daggers in dung* it's good shout

[cobalt token]

is it coming this reset?

id say it isnt big enough but it could make us like

atleast mid tier

instead of high low tier

[gritty hamlet]

Ugh, I can't justify the mounts

I'll buy the pink one once a 50% sale comes around

[torpid rapids]

Hi guys,

I'm new to retail, but have been playing outlaw for a while and I'm really struggling with dmg - currently doing like 30k to st with jackpot..

I'd really like some advice on what to do better

[deft verge]

yooo in aoe is it actually better dps to prio press blade flurry over sinister strike?

[torpid rapids]

Happy to share any questions u need to help me determine my mistake

[deft verge]

@torpid rapids outlaw is one of the hardest specs in the game to play lul gl

[torpid rapids]

yeah I get that, but I want to get better at it

[deft verge]

hard for people to tell you what you're doing wrong without seeing your actual gameplay, there used to be a site that analyzes your logs and breaks down all your mistakes but idk if it still exists + is updated for midnight

[random stirrup]

outlaw is really hard to evaluate with anything but a vod

[vivid vessel]

have you dropped

i have 4 set on main

im wondering if i should spam pvp now on alt

to get 4set

before we do split on last boss tmtw

[random stirrup]

i got 3 charges from about 120 games of arena

[vivid vessel]

120?

[torpid rapids]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cvxTPj6sEU

does this help?

[random stirrup]

blasting games with the boys

[keen belfry]

banger???

[formal knot]

number 1, bind the buttons, stop clicking them with mouse

[balmy topaz]

I didn’t do any today

[lime lake]

not a panda

dogshit

[random stirrup]

why does your guy look like she has ptsd

[balmy topaz]

I’ll try tomorrow during the day

[keen belfry]

lolok at my sweatpants

so sick

[torpid rapids]

yeah I'll begin with that

[deft verge]

@torpid rapids im late to seeing this but ya DO NOT CLICK buttons lmao this aint 2006

outlaw is one of the highest if not the highest apm specs in the game

[torpid rapids]

surely that can't be the only reason i'm so short on dmg

[deft verge]

makes a huge difference but i can look at the video some more

[frail veldt]

its definitely a big one

[torpid rapids]

saw some guy did 110k

idk how

[frail veldt]

I would check out #outlaw-faq

your basic opener wasnt correct I think you should take a look at the general priorities for both cds and for builder/spender rules

[edgy owl]

mono?

[frail veldt]

thats the fundamentals to outlaw

[smoky lotus]

remove shiv from your bars

[frail veldt]

use cooldowns correctly and be efficient with cp generation/usage

[deft verge]

you dispatch before bte?

[frail veldt]

youre technically supposed to dispatch your opener to proc snd yeah

[torpid rapids]

just some random outlaw dude in a raid

[next veldt]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[next veldt]

@frozen quest

[brave fossil]

How's the council feeling about boots a second craft to get a jump start on M+?

[lime lake]

Is it a jump start bc its boots

Are they jumping boots

[frail veldt]

@torpid rapids if the faq is too much text you can take this as a pretty stripped down starting point. It covers most of what you need to do okay dps in single target

Cooldowns:
Adr on CD when at low cps
RtB with Loaded Dice buff or if you're currently at stage 1 of RtB   buff
KiR when RtB is stage 2 or higher
Builder prio:
Pistol Shot with opportunity proc up at 1-3 CPs > SS
Finisher:
at 6cp for bte or 5cp for dispatch

seems you have most of this down except the cooldown usage

couple times in there you pressed pistol shot when you got a proc but you were already at max cps

[ashen void]

Jordans are required for m+ they make your kicks more effective

[hardy vault]

put my nikes on

also effective for speed

[fallen quail]

So basically if im playing on a toaster i need to stay sub

[frail veldt]

p sure a toaster can run the game at at least 60fps

so youre prob fine

outlaw's apm is similar to that of frost dk from tww

so its not that high in terms of historical scale

fire is the highest apm dps by a good margin now

[torpid rapids]

thank you brother, I will have a look at this

why do I remove shiv, does it auto apply somehow?

[frail veldt]

it doesnt do anything

dont need it

[fallen quail]

Still removes enrage tho right

[frail veldt]

thats not relevant at this point in the learning

[torpid rapids]

can someone send me a better talent tree for pure damage?

single target dmg

[frail veldt]

use the one in #outlaw-faq

[torpid rapids]

I can admit that I have no clue what I am doing

I will ,thank you

[deft verge]

ya i unironically cant touch outlaw in raid rn until i get new CPU the input delay instantly kills my dps

[fallen quail]

My toaster plays at best 30 fps with updated graphics card, no background apps, and lowest graphics settings

[wintry solar]

I've missed many kicks because of it

[edgy owl]

well I have the same question than Kn0x, but I feel like I'm doing the rotation as it's meant to be so I don't really understand, if anyone can get a look https://youtu.be/Tfavs6Oyn5U

[gloomy adder]

guys does anyone know what the best protocol is for crucible trinket? i cant find an answer anywhere

[edgy owl]

I don't even know how to change the protocol haha

[gloomy adder]

you get uncontaminated void samples from stormarion i believe then use the console

void researcher anomander gives you a repeatable quest to do wqs for him

[solar iron]

you should have all 3 for the trinket

[wintry solar]

@frail veldt what's your spellqueue window at?

[gloomy adder]

i mean what one to take first

can you farm it?

[solar iron]

it was once per week idk if there's catchup

no idea on which point is moreimportant for dps can sim it though i think

[gloomy adder]

i took the increased duration one

because it seems to work on silvermoon dummies despite saying its only in voidstorm?

[jaunty rose]

is our set bonus decent?

[gloomy adder]

sadly no

[jaunty rose]

nice 🙂

[sour cedar]

you can get 2 research per week one from the 3 WQs the other from the WQ to do all of the Stormarion Anchor Defense thing

so you should get 2 of the 3 passives super quick and the next one on Wednesday, so it shouldn't matter which ones you took as long as you get all 3 before doing anything else

[hearty stump]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frail veldt]

idk like 300

I actually upped it