and thats the tea sis
#outlaw
keen belfry
ST is fine without having to press bf me thinks?
slim hare
but i legit last 3 minutes (in game)
10% haste ?
mystic berry
As someone who tried to avoid playing the law during prepatch, I can tell you, nothing hits the same notes.
However you can go with enhance for similar gambling dopamine hits
keen belfry
10 x 2.5 yes
slim hare
i see small pp then (in game ofc)
cinder relic
Enhance also sucks so ull feel right at home too
keen belfry
whats gonna happen when you go into duo boss in windrunner spire with 1-2 tea charges
do u afk?
red star
they should buff ST crying.
slim hare
how much do u get the rank 1 buff ?
red star
every roll
cinder relic
how much do u get the rank 1 buff ?
Rarely with good play
past falcon
men these days...
slim hare
i'm legit not a great player
red star
listen 3min is hard
red star
ohh yeah thats fine
slim hare
you degenerate
keen belfry
u need to do more many attempts at lasting long (in game) cause i just run out
and noah fence im fucking blasting the dummimes they are getting parsed on rn
blasting all over them rn
red star
xD
keen belfry
i had 1.76% uptime on 1 buff that time
vivid vessel
but i think the dummies are litteraly skill checking your ass rn
slim hare
not home rn getting home in 18h
keen belfry
should i stream my dummy session rn?
sullen wyvern
took me a min to understand what you meant with noah fence ngl
keen belfry
took me a min to understand what you meant with noah fence ngl
dumb ahh
vivid vessel
took me a min to understand what you meant with noah fence ngl
noob
slim hare
sucking his energy
past falcon
sullen wyvern
I'm not an internet guy anymore I am out in the country milking cows
slim hare
and then asking why he can't last because of energy
keen belfry
absolute banger
keen belfry
im the king of whispers i think
past falcon
this goes hard
past falcon
v true
vivid vessel
in the whisper game
keen belfry
keen belfry
bro lives in arizona XD
past falcon
bro lives in HELL
keen belfry
no cap im hot rn (temp wise) and its like 50
worldly shale
noah fence
keen belfry
taranx wya
sullen wyvern
Minnesota
keen belfry
slim hare
best advice : don't be in murica
sullen wyvern
slim hare
then you can't get shot
keen belfry
im a mn native solo said be careful cuz i posted a highway one time
past falcon
my canadian passport looking better and better
keen belfry
he thought i was doxxing myself
keen belfry
my canadian passport looking better and better
do you know the weeknd?
sullen wyvern
This has been the most annoying winter I have ever been so far
slim hare
i though he was in china
vivid vessel
if anyone want the coords location just send a dm
slim hare
i can send feet pics zac
sullen wyvern
can I tom tom IRLto awangs cords?
slim hare
is that enough ?
vivid vessel
thats not true wtf
next wedge
wow thats so cool do you want some head
keen belfry
i brought cuh here
keen belfry
wow thats so cool do you want some head
YES
keen belfry
they are saying cuhmon
quaint mauve
which weapon enchant
slim hare
cuhrazy
quaint mauve
do i go
next wedge
the one the guide says
keen belfry
sullen wyvern
what is cuh oing on
vivid vessel
in outlaw channel sure
dense bridge
some of these fatebound talents are so nested in chance that they seem extremely niche
vivid vessel
thats what i said
dense bridge
i have no particular love for either fatebound or trickster, but, what is trickster missing for it to be competitive
next wedge
what if i meowed
lime lake
ac
slim hare
yapping but right again
lime lake
is always right
keen belfry
i have no particular love for either fatebound or trickster, but, what is tricks...
it has to take KS which makes u lose big talent, u hit has less energy, u use KS
dense bridge
i see
dense bridge
so fundamentally trickster is just kinda cheeks
slim hare
discord = server
vivid vessel
im not entirely sure but i think all these changes should have no impact on what everyone is currently doing
might need updates on some addons but
next wedge
does anyone want to do my ui for me
vivid vessel
i dont think this will affect any of the cdm reskiner etc
lime lake
huge
sullen wyvern
They're bricking up addons right before RWF starts
someone at blizzard wants the world to burn
next wedge
it wouldnt surprise me
keen belfry
dreamy pecan
They're bricking up addons right before RWF starts
Don't they have their own custom addons they run though?
slim hare
by 3 %
next wedge
rogue's raid buff is booty cheeks and our dmg is mid
slim hare
rogue's raid buff is booty cheeks and our dmg is mid
post feedback on forum
and pliz can we close the discord? so we get the paladin/DK treatment?
sullen wyvern
Don't they have their own custom addons they run though?
To my understandign and what I've seen in X, you cant even properly track some dispells in the raid 
mystic berry
post feedback on forum
That is mafic land
sullen wyvern
I have a feeling that some devs saw fellowship and tried to replicate how that game feels somehow with wow by removing addons and what not
but the issue is that they giga half assed this whole new philosophy and it works like shit
slim hare
That is mafic land
that guys has horrible takes on lastest change for 12.0.5
sullen wyvern
I guess we gotta wait for this season to die early and maybe they just revert this whole mess
sullen wyvern
I wish they would do it instantly
blissful idol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1048716096217284653/1451297908375945266/k...
that is actually hilarious
sullen wyvern
like this next reset there, we reverted our shit take on addons etc
but knowing blizzard theyure gonna double down for at least an entire season until (if) they decide to do so
keen belfry
i really miss WA packs
frail veldt
i really miss WA packs
same
slim hare
at least for addon interface and accessibility
sullen wyvern
Idk, I think RWF are up for a surprise this week ngl
frail veldt
for now i think the game is just worse for 99.9% of player
definitely
hardy thicket
I miss tracking interrupts, CCs, mobs targetting me, sound alerts
frail veldt
I wonder how many millions of dollars of dev time they spent to make the game worse lol
hardy thicket
thats about it
sullen wyvern
The only positive thing so far, at least for me, is that game runs smoother without WAs
slim hare
"were gonna do that in step and not pull the ripcord so we have solution ready " they said that
look at where we are
slim hare
The only positive thing so far, at least for me, is that game runs smoother with...
same
frail veldt
"were gonna do that in step and not pull the ripcord so we have solution ready "...
they lied
week after week
sullen wyvern
Correct me if I am wrong but I swear that when they announced that WAs was rip and they were gonna introduce their own tools to track cds/procs etc they also mentioned that we could track those using sound effects just like you do with WAs, but they never launched that with CDM
mystic berry
I mean, they blatantly lie that they are gathering data and feedback for balance, so lieing about having plans for addons is not far fetched
vivid vessel
you are wrong
keen belfry
u can add sound effects
vivid vessel
cdm is that and you can add sounds to some stuffs
keen belfry
they half work
sullen wyvern
huh lemme take a look
frail veldt
Correct me if I am wrong but I swear that when they announced that WAs was rip a...
they did do that
its just bad
cdm has sound alerts
vivid vessel
its just half finished and mediocre like everything blizzard ui has ever done
frail veldt
and cooldown/aura tracking
keen belfry
frail veldt
but yeah its like a half assed alpha version of what a real substitute should be
sullen wyvern
why I cant see that am I blind chat
keen belfry
right click
vivid vessel
chat !
broken stirrup
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen belfry
its on aura applied, not stack gained
mystic berry
aura applied or removed
keen belfry
so things like fth only make sounce on first proc
hardy thicket
its just dumb but kinda halfass works
mystic berry
if we could use ids for spells and buffs it could be better
charge gained or removed aswell
mystic berry
yeah, they are kinda ass
hardy thicket
I just use the spell one
mystic berry
atleast with ayjie I can customize the text to speech
hardy thicket
honestly the biggest thing that feels awful to me is just I cant really be good with kicks and cc and preemptive useage of defensives due to not having the interrupts/ccs/targtetted on me stuff
its just like
iuno im too used to having that shit coded
also gl seeing that in a 20 mob pull
vivid vessel
sullen wyvern
zac the goat
hardy thicket
oh sick
sullen wyvern
also its funny that they removed WAs etc from retail where is needed due to all the stuff that usually goes on in a key or raid
copper radish
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/targetedspells
Another addon to download? wtf
sullen wyvern
but they didnt do that to neither classic versions of the game
copper radish
Holy shit gonna have 100 addons by end of season
sullen wyvern
vivid vessel
Another addon to download? wtf
ye
sullen wyvern
make it make sense blizzard
vivid vessel
its technically in blizz ui
there is an option for spells targeted on you
to make casts bigger or smth on plates
idk
copper radish
Oh damn they actually have something useful in their UI
hardy thicket
funny thing is you can also have the UI yell if your target is casting
but not your focus target
guess that shit was too hard to code
craggy barn
i have 2 separate cd addons 🙂
bc i like the functionality of arcui for most stuff
but hate how it handles trinkets/items
frail veldt
its so wonky with trinkets/items lol
craggy barn
yea
frail veldt
something about outlaw doesnt work well with the other cdm things ive tried
ellesui still cant do outlaw
it cant track rtb cooldown on the cooldown icon
it alwys tracks rtb buff duration
as well, PS cooldown on ellesui has some abitrary 6s cooldown spiral it plays
instead of tracking the PS buff
very weird
craggy barn
i use ell's specifically for trinkets and items lol
fiery timber
Pay 5€ and use atrocity or fragnance Ui
tired rune
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/targetedspells
ty zac
outer meteor
can any log wizard tell me what went wrong on this boss? i felt like i got unlucky but not enough to warrant this performance https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/b28MdNYgHGKDFPrQ?fight=4&type=damage-done&source=15
mystic berry
not that im complaining, but why is my healer valeera hitting 100k on the meters?
did they break something
naive river
as rogue shes doing 100k?
do you have the mandate thing on could of just got some procs off her
twilit stump
is outlaw cooked
mystic berry
I am running time lost edict and sanctum's edict rn
vivid vessel
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/petesdefensivehistory @frail veldt thoughts
addon trakcs defs cds apparently
thorny flower
are we good yet?
vivid vessel
based on the blizzard big buffs things
detect the buffs and guess the cd or whatever
and it create cd frames like htat
:D
thorny flower
or do I have to play sub
vivid vessel
in a few we will have 100% feature parity with what we had on live, everything will just be half broken and wonky and a small random addon
zinc briar
naive river
i think its about that 24-25% for adren rush gcd
naive river
in a few we will have 100% feature parity with what we had on live, everything w...
i feel if people keep pushing the limits they lock down addons even more lol
vivid vessel
Eh
alpine flower
stupid question maybe but.....if you hit BTE, it resets cooldown and you're left with lets say 4 CP....do you send BTE again or do you use a builder then send?
wintry solar
Build
cinder relic
U want around 21-25% haste
glass mortar
lime lake
hes so real for that
vivid vessel
thoughts on this, a comment on a video about Sub vs Outlaw
Thats funny
near rock
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6g1VR332A7B6vuwxEv4jz2 trash ass loot man
can't get rid of this damn veteran crafted ring
frail veldt
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/petesdefensivehistory <@151872253229924352...
Lololololol no way
Will be using this in pvp
I bet it gets taken down
fringe dirge
Outlaw is so nice to play on Saldahaar 😮💨
Way too satisfying
fallen quail
Does anyone else feel weak doing world content or am I just bad
I feel like things are hitting me too hard
246 i lvl
thorn parrot
Nah never had an issue with that
cinder relic
Does anyone else feel weak doing world content or am I just bad
Use kidney
It's legit op for world content
proven ocean
Wish it was sub.. blizz love outlaw..
silk stirrup
Just respec sub
One shot everything
Shadow dance Sectech on 20 sec Cooldown is one of the best things that happened to WoW
outer meteor
can any log wizard tell me what went wrong on this boss? i felt like i got unluc...
any gamers?
sand nova
One shot everything
just respec sub and one shot m0 mobs so trueee !!!
hazy temple
Are any of you playing with Vessel of Tortured Souls? When i check it out on bloodmallet it's simming insanely
fair spade
Are any of you playing with Vessel of Tortured Souls? When i check it out on blo...
Sim bait, gotta run around and pick up hard to see souls on the ground. Not feasible to do in mythic+ or mythic bosses.
gaunt phoenix
perhaps you dont need to be perfect for it to be good
not sure a weakaura can capture if there is one active
near rock
Not completely bait by any means, but def takes effort and you’re unlikely to hit the sim number
Have enjoyed it so far in m0s at least
normal quail
gaunt phoenix
burnt dragon
Noticing people are logging with 1/2 Summarily Dispatched and Prep vs 2/2 on a lot of the aoe raid fights, any specific reason?
quick ridge
Can you cloak the horrify?
quick ridge
it’s undispellable I imagine?
glass mortar
it was a magic debuff so it looks dispellable
our healers dont even dispel the raid mechanics tho so
quick ridge
Even then, your delves did let you down 🫂
strong halo
whats the best spec to do the delve leveling thing
waxen scarab
is maisara trinket sim bait?
fathom bramble
no
it sims perfectly fine, it's just the effort to utilize the effect might be more than it is worrth
no WA to track when an orb spawns or any good indicator of it other than looking for it visually in the chaos of melee
neon rapids
doable with bs trickster strat maybe
dawn tundra
I can't even sim.
I love how I can't actually play this class at all, but I'm not switching because I find it fun. But any time I try to "learn" I just end up getting confused.
Getting out DPSed by tanks.
Fuck me, dude, holy shit.
mystic peak
dawn tundra
That's the ISSUE, though, I can't get the hang of it!
I'm doing a dozen different things all at once while raiding. It's not so bad doing Mythics or Delving, which I'm having fun with, but I want to get Normal Voidspire done.
I just want it out of the way, so then I can just pay people to do Heroic because at this rate? Heroic is something I don't want to even stress about.
mighty pivot
it sims perfectly fine, it's just the effort to utilize the effect might be more...
I mean... antenna had a setting for miss rate, this one should have one too
except there is no event to look for to see what's realistic miss rate
sturdy phoenix
Hum english is not my main langage so if someone can help me, to get the full dps provided from the Cruicle of Erratic Energies i need to do the weekly and singularity as described in the pinned message or it's just going to change my dps in the voidspire ? and not in raid and dj ?
fathom bramble
the upgrades apply to the trinket everywhere
but only apply to the zone buff in the zone itself
while in voidstorm(not in a raid, dungeon, or delve) you get a much stronger version of the trinket as a passive on your character
near rock
I thought we determined that the passives do apply in both raids?
sturdy phoenix
Ok so i need to farm singularity to get it full potential right
fathom bramble
yes
sturdy phoenix
Thanks ! 🫶
fathom bramble
the zone specific thing is just outdoors in voidstorm even though upgrades effeect that and the trinket
the trinket and its upgrades work everywhere
near rock
Oh I see what you're referring to
static crescent
I have a very weird question, if you look at someone who has mained outlaw for a long period of time and performing in ranking high on logs, do they still end up having a lot of mistakes in an encounter? Mistakes as in reacting to procs etc. incorrectly
static crescent
Im just mostly wondering, how close to the actual perfect scenarios do the top loggers ge to, im watching few heroic videos after my question and see quite little but some
some 5 pt BTE's n shit like that small stuff
gaunt phoenix
The rotation is simple enough most skill is having uptime on mechanic heavy encounters
5cp bte is probably not even a 1% loss
Outlaw is about apm and uptime really
keen belfry
I’ll be curious what top logs will be like this tier
gaunt phoenix
And not committing obviously egregious errors like rolling over your good buffs
You cant see when cooldowns are up from logs so
keen belfry
The biggest thing is you need to be literally mid gameplay and notice mistakes as you make them
That’s how u learn this spec imo
keen belfry
Agree
gaunt phoenix
You can play perfectly and get fucked
static crescent
Yeah for sure, but its the only way of measuring a succesful rotation to some extent on paper i gues
s
gaunt phoenix
Outlaw's rng curve is wide
keen belfry
But you can 99ish in any scenario USUALLY
static crescent
I mean im just starting out and espicially in m+ enviroment its brutal to look at the fuck ups
m0 in this case i guess
keen belfry
Parse % is bad considering no one plays law rn
Learn builder rules and RTB rules, they are quite simple now
And actively think during gameplay “that was a bad button press” etc
civic zephyr
Are we supposed to be hitting blade flurry on cd? or just during phases when there is stuff to cleave?
keen belfry
Like you should be able to tell you’re blasting without having details up
static crescent
Ye, biggest things i have is BF falling off when at high CP's or not noticing at all, or keeping up with the opportunity 1 cp rule
keen belfry
Are we supposed to be hitting blade flurry on cd? or just during phases when the...
Why would you press BF if there’s nothing to cleave?
civic zephyr
I was wondering the same thing, but like i'm seeing some logs have way more presses than i have and we have same kill times, but i went back and reviewed it and i'm pressing it on cd when we are killing ads
static crescent
Honestly should probably just give up on the opportunity 3 stacks 1 cp rule for now
1% and its taking most of my brain processing power rn lmao
final pagoda
@gaunt phoenix do u use any WAs?
keen belfry
Honestly should probably just give up on the opportunity 3 stacks 1 cp rule for ...
Naw just some dummies
static crescent
Its a nice rule to some extent as it makes you know what your pressing next 3 seconds or so
keen belfry
U gotta hit dummies if you wanna blast
final pagoda
also anyone knows why prot pally or prot war records high apm in sims?
keen belfry
Even with all the UI shenanigans
I will always preach a good UI for this spec is neede
static crescent
I just made one for myself, that has opportunity stacks with size of an horse and RTB/BF timers shown better
But yeah, default one defo didnt cut it out to feed the info properly
Think it will also help a lot once more familiar with the new dungeons/raids, less brain power directed into figuring out whats going on
cinder relic
also anyone knows why prot pally or prot war records high apm in sims?
cuz they have off GCD buttons
civic zephyr
So i'm reading through the FAQ section right now, so if i were to press BTE right now its wrong is that correct? If so should i press it at max points or make sure to be at least at 6?
dont worry about the other cd's being up ..
static crescent
ye atleast 6
cinder relic
So i'm reading through the FAQ section right now, so if i were to press BTE righ...
You would SS, then BTE yeah
Well
BR SS BTE
civic zephyr
oh lord i'm so trash....okay good to know
upper hawk
BRSSBTE
snow stratus
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen belfry
wow we are useless on vanguard
why would you expect that hard capped spec to be good at low cleave?
worthy surge
idk were just useless though
I figured wed be alittle better
but were actually useless
keen belfry
well it wouldnt make sense to be hard capped and be good at low cleave
keen belfry
silly outlaw rogue
fathom bramble
yeah more or less expected when BF is (probably) weaker than it has ever been for outlaw
craggy barn
u want cleave? how about single target and less cleave
fathom bramble
last time we had a % this low it did other things like wits or had no GCD cost
keen belfry
yeah more or less expected when BF is (probably) weaker than it has ever been fo...
is there anyway we are good in m+
craggy barn
less cleave means we do more boss damn right???
keen belfry
i literally cant envision it rn
fathom bramble
without tuning I would say it is highly unlikely that we are a meta M+ spec
or even near-meta
keen belfry
less cleave means we do more boss damn right???
yeah our patchwerk goes bonkers
static crescent
I could live with being a shitty specc, but Im worried we are so far off that my friends will just be upset me playing outlaw
(m+)
keen belfry
im guesisng we get BF tuning in like 2 weeks
that number should revert back to like 45% or whatever we had in tww atleast
static crescent
im hoping for monday, dont have time probably to push 10s on multiple chars in first weeks xd
craggy barn
nah we will get another 2%
frigid olive
i'm only doing like 42k dps on raid bosses. do i suck or is it just the spec rn?
craggy barn
they are scared that rog will pop off with tier
keen belfry
wait uif u think about it
static crescent
but isnt the outlaw tier bonus kinda easy to calculate into
wintry solar
I vaguely remember something in DF about not needing to tune purely off aura.
craggy barn
yes
keen belfry
if outlaw gets some tier next week we get two 4% buffs
static crescent
its like flat 5% and some extra damage to a shitty ability
craggy barn
and they dont like multiple rog specs at top
keen belfry
i'm only doing like 42k dps on raid bosses. do i suck or is it just the spec rn?
soudns like suck ass but there could be other factors too
craggy barn
rog is alloted 1 okay spec a tier
keen belfry
if sub fucks asscheeks again this tier
we must tweet a lot
i might become ayoutuber if that happens
fathom holly
i'm only doing like 42k dps on raid bosses. do i suck or is it just the spec rn?
just pad better like everyone else does
keen belfry
turn you bf % up
worthy surge
I mean single target im close to 70k when I play well with decent rng
static crescent
ye at duo dragon just hop in and go nutz aoe yo
fathom holly
I mean single target im close to 70k when I play well with decent rng
🧢 ?
fathom bramble
vorasius is the one fight I felt actually good on
100% uptime no gimmicks so
it makes sense
elfin forum
!macro
ornate heathBOT
Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.
lone spear
rest in piss ghostly strike
tender wedge
I’m an outlaw hobbyist rather than a main, there’s probably tonnes I didn’t do 😅
upper sage
how do we feel about the upcoming ace up your sleeve change?
fast fossil
how do u guys feel about outlaw in general
is it actually down bad or just not played
cinder relic
how do we feel about the upcoming ace up your sleeve change?
good!
cinder relic
is it actually down bad or just not played
Rogue is very mid
I think the best spec rn is honestly assassination but we will have to see on mythic
Trinkets:
**Gaze of the Alnseer **was nerfed, it is not overwhelmingly bis but still pretty much top 3.
Vessel of Tortured Souls will sim the highest but requires you to pick up souls, most likely you won't match this performance but it should still be good even if you are not perfect with it.
Crucible of Erratic Energies is very good for its item level but will fall off as we get upper hero/mythic gear.
Umbral Plume and Ranger Captain's Insignia are expected to be tied for bis though the Plume does scale better in aoe.
gaunt phoenix
how do we feel about the upcoming ace up your sleeve change?
the complaint with ace is that the 2nd point is useless, which this change does resolve
We still don't love to bte at 5cps so we'll probably have to build between procs again
keen belfry
My biggest hope with this ace change is there’s another talent change somewhere cause that’s usually a pretty hard point to get
We dropping summarily dispatched for it in aoe?
Or I guess we could drop sleight?
Imo they changed the wrong number of ACE, should’ve changed the amount it refunds, but more refunds is good too so oh well
gaunt phoenix
dont know until it's on ptr, but can say the 1st point is a ~1.1% nerf compared to right now
keen belfry
Yes I’m assuming you play 2 ace now or no ace
I’d guess they don’t know it’s a pretty contested point
hollow thunder
Just build ace into BTE and give us some good talent
final pagoda
cuz they have off GCD buttons
Ok but 87 APM?! Not even TWW outlaw
fathom bramble
it's just they spend resources on active mitigation over and over
it's kind of not real apm in a sense since all your doing is using it whenever it is up without as much decision making as a real resource interaction
or at least that is how it feels to me on prot pal
final pagoda
Is it worth to hold AR if you are at 4-5/6 gravedigger stacks?
fast fossil
is KS just undertuned rn
wasnt it being played on prepatch
or is that just a trickster thing
gaunt phoenix
it's for trickster yea
tulip hazel
is there any info on rtb? i don't understand the different levels or buffs, as it seems like you only get 1 now?
cinder relic
tulip hazel
ah, thank you! would be good if that page also linked the exact buffs
cinder relic
I could add that
wintry solar
You mean like One of a Kind, etc?
gaunt phoenix
tulip hazel
yea, took my small brain a hot minute to realize that, was looking for stage1/2/3/4 buffs
oh, also those icons make sense now
silk stirrup
Ok but 87 APM?! Not even TWW outlaw
Prot paladin had arguably more apm than tww Outlaw
frail veldt
Multiple tanks did I think
fathom bramble
yeah
dreamy pecan
You mean like One of a Kind, etc?
That has been stuck in my head since Midnight launched. 
https://youtu.be/1Vh6UVZ3aek
fathom bramble
the tanks that didn't were the ones with somewhat slower rotations in general
but every tank gets a ton of extra actions from offgcd active mitigation
quick ridge
After raiding all night for the first time on outlaw, I now fully understand why keep it rolling is used on tier 2 bones
I did not believe, not fully, but now I do.
I’m sorry for doubting 🥺
fathom bramble
yeah tier 1 bones is just incredibly doomed
instantly out of energy
no combo points
quick ridge
It feels unbelievably bad
bright crane
took all afternoon but i finally did it
icy hare
Does trinket damage increase with the BtE damage buff stacks?
Or is it just ability damage
icy hare
Thanks
rare rapids
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vivid vessel
the complaint with ace is that the 2nd point is useless, which this change does ...
"resolve" more like forces you into it xd, it doesn't fix the actual issue we had with ace
fathom bramble
Zac
I failed to beat my vorasius log on my main
I think that may be our only good fight
100% uptime single target encounter with some random light cleave
and enough movement to penalize those pesky ranged players at least a little bit
vivid vessel
I failed to beat my vorasius log on my main
I did the same thing on paladinx lol
I have r1 on alt and R2 on main
Or i had idk if it changed now
vivid vessel
I think that may be our only good fight
Ye but assa probably does more st and I think they can cleave adds with spatter
I was checking that last time
fathom bramble
Or i had idk if it changed now
fathom bramble
I got rank 1 on crown while being almost last in my raid
very unfortunate
that fight is hell
vivid vessel
Why am I the litteral lowest ilvl on both char ..
fathom bramble
like there is no way you can run a strat like that on myth and expect melee to do damage
at least the dungeon guide being cutoff would seem to indicate P2 is different on myth
so maybe it'll be fine
other than the 2 downtime phases destroying us
if you don't enter the intermission just right you can get stuck in 1buff hell right when you get back on the boss
during bloodlust...
need 2 charges of ar so bad
vivid vessel
like there is no way you can run a strat like that on myth and expect melee to d...
The boss stack a damage amp on you if they are close tho
vivid vessel
Classic
fathom bramble
I mean there is a few
it's just not good data for comparing specs rn when some specs still only have 1-5 kills
obviously outlaw is terrible for it anyway
I just wanted to see melee overall but I don't think it's an accurate picture rn
fathom bramble
gl
balmy topaz
Idk any guilds that raid Saturday
fathom bramble
just us apparently
balmy topaz
Yeah that’s crazy
fallen obsidian
yo @vivid vessel How did you get your dark icons with nice border in your UI?
fathom bramble
also my split had only 1 leather tier item drop
balmy topaz
also my split had only 1 leather tier item drop
fathom bramble
managed to snag leather gloves from LFR though
1 plate 1 leather 6 mail 5 cloth I think it was
between heroic 6/7 and normal 7/7
vivid vessel
it's just not good data for comparing specs rn when some specs still only have 1...
I don't need much to know outlaw is bad
You can look at normal as well if you need more convincing
vivid vessel
Considering sub gets a 14% tier
And is already the best spec on the boss
I don't think so
vivid vessel
yo <@352916297262301194> How did you get your dark icons with nice border in you...
I use a shadow border on icons
sturdy tartan
I’m not gonna lie, I’ve played outlaw every season since it was introduced in legion and I feel like this might be the worst it’s been
I feel terrible
fathom bramble
as another long time outlaw I do feel you may be right
however at this time the other 2 rogue specs are also lackluster
river wing
what, even worse than TWW S3?
fathom bramble
so it's not like some of our times where sub/sin are 20% above law
so there's that I guess
fathom bramble
what, even worse than TWW S3?
I mean other than 1 fight in TWW S3 we weren't even that bad
and we might have another fight like dimensius on our hands so idk
cinder relic
Normal is going to skew towards sub because the kill timers are fast
fathom bramble
I'm scared of mythic crown
cinder relic
And the spec is still very frontloaded damage wise
fathom bramble
we don't have all the info about myth crown obviously
river wing
it's just that I heard that TWW S3 was an unusually hostile season to 'law
fathom bramble
but if it's anything like hero that seems pretty unfortunate
river wing
(played Assa in that so couldn't say myself)
fathom bramble
TWW S3 we were quite good on a few bosses even
and than penultimate boss we were bad
final boss we were unplayable
haughty wigeon
vivid vessel
Normal is going to skew towards sub because the kill timers are fast
Bro usually outlaw dominate normal and hc week 1
We gulp adds, we don't care about setting up cds, we don't care about trinkets etc
And sub is getting a 14% tier set xd
vivid vessel
Sub is
cinder relic
Sub isn't
vivid vessel
Idk you can just open wcl and see that on every fight if you take sub and make it go up 10% it's higher than the other 2 spec on every damage type
cinder relic
Alright
vivid vessel
Wdym alright
fathom bramble
it's just that I heard that TWW S3 was an unusually hostile season to 'law
1-Plexus sentinel. We were mostly fine, and as first boss it didn't matter too much
2-Loomithar. mostly 100% uptime singletarget boss with brief 2 taget cleave, we were good on this one if you were good at law
3-Soulbinder. Bad, no burst aoe for the burst aoe limited cleave capability thanks to trickster nerfs
4-Araz. Good for early prog, brings the strongest reliable slow in the game and we had plenty of cleave for the high uptime adds. on farm outlaw was very bad for this encounter.
5-Soul hunters. Best rogue specs potentially one of the best melee specs if you could handle playing outlaw as trickster on a fight with a lot of shit going on.
6-Fractillus. fine-goodish. another 100% uptime singletarget fight where we could just put our simdps to work.
7-Salhadaar. bad, no burst aoe/cleave for platforms and no burst for the vuln phase. standard outlaw problems
8-Dimensius. Doomed.
cinder relic
I think rogue cleave and aoe is bad, so u play rogue as a st merchant, and sin just does more boss dmg atm
vivid vessel
It's getting a 14% tier set, sin and outlaw is 4%
fathom bramble
this is a brief description of each boss based on my own personal experience mythic progging them
fallen obsidian
@vivid vessel Thank you bro! Got my masque look back
cinder relic
Sin and otl also getting more aura buff
cinder relic
I think trying to look at rogue as an aoe merchant is not the move this tier
vivid vessel
are we for real rn
cinder relic
I just play at and just hit boss
vivid vessel
im not looking at it like an aoe merchant lol
cinder relic
Sin better at hitting boss than sub, other than saladar
vivid vessel
sub ends up here after tier
+10%
also i would argue on this boss sub and outlaw are swapping to adds rn while sin isnt
they are looking lower on boss damage than sin is for that
cinder relic
Why are u looking at this graph like other dps are gaining 0% from tier
vivid vessel
im comparing to other rogue specs
daring yoke
Guys. In raid. When do we use prep? On cd or save for certain situations?
vivid vessel
other classes are getting around 5% or so % tho in average so its not exactly that wrong for other classes either
this is fallen king
now you could argue that some people have 4 set already maybe idk
it looked similar day 1 tho
and i dont need to move sub by 10% to get it ahead of the other rogue specs anywya
half of that would suffice
so idk
am i wrong ?
like everyone is simmingly ignoring tier set when they are thinking about specs rn
confuses me a bit
proven ocean
Is there a tier set sim spreadsheet
Because if there isn’t then ur argument is invalid
solar iron
proven ocean
14
solar iron
no idea how accurate this shit is
proven ocean
fathom bramble
it's not a hard sim to run it's probably good enough
vivid vessel
everyone is saying sub is the worse rogue spec
forgettting they are getting tier set
and trinket
like
idk
im legit confused
fathom bramble
who is saying worst ?
cinder relic
Boot up sub on mythic week then
cinder relic
I think sin is better
cinder relic
Because it's 4:35 am and I'm not getting into a 2 hour argument about it
proven ocean
How are trinket tunings btw
cinder relic
We will see on mythic week
vivid vessel
bro everytime we tried talking about it you just evade when i start bringing in data
proven ocean
Are rogue trinkets worse
vivid vessel
im confused
proven ocean
Than other classes?
vivid vessel
just tell me im missing something idk
proven ocean
Zac im looking at it
Wait
I just wanna know trinket tunings
Tier sets isn’t enough info
Idk
vivid vessel
Are rogue trinkets worse
idk check bloodmallet
they have a 1min30 trinket so its prolly alright
cinder relic
Sins damage is very reliant on getting a cd set in execute, it's easier to do that on mythic on longer kill timers. Sins profile is also just gonna be more favourable on a few fights compared to subs 1:30
fathom bramble
sub has a very strong trinket option
cinder relic
I've said this like 10 times
proven ocean
Im asking in terms of like
cinder relic
Idk why Ur saying I'm dodging lol
proven ocean
All classes trinkets
cinder relic
I've said exactly this to u like 5+ times
vivid vessel
I've said exactly this to u like 5+ times
noi you never talked to me about that lol what
cinder relic
Alright
vivid vessel
now i see your point
fathom bramble
Sometimes casters have an op trinket
the most op trinket appears to be puzzle box on the right specs
vivid vessel
i mean i was discussing wiht assa people yesterday
was confused why no one was trying assa on last boss
proven ocean
the most op trinket appears to be puzzle box on the right specs
Does it work on sin/sub?
vivid vessel
cause last boss values exec a bit
so i thought if there is a boss you should try assa
it would be last
but no one is playing it
but last boss favors 1min30 cds so
both side
cinder relic
Cuz everybody thinks sin is bad that's why
vivid vessel
have an argument
fathom bramble
Does it work on sin/sub?
sub prefers the on use haste trinket
from raid
puzzle box looks insane on sin though, but I don't look at sin all that much
vivid vessel
when is it not
proven ocean
From what im seeing i dont see how sin is good
vivid vessel
some people even said outalw tier btw ross
cinder relic
Execute matters all the time lol
proven ocean
It could be different now tho but
fathom bramble
crown has a meaningful exceute phase
vivid vessel
it matters when you have a boss that need execute wdym
fathom bramble
it might be a mugzee situation
vivid vessel
i mean
proven ocean
Sin execute isnt as strong as ppl seem it to be back in tww
fathom bramble
where even if sub is king you see sin on the 1 fight
proven ocean
Ye apart from niche stuff like mugzee ofc
vivid vessel
meaningfull can be argued tbh
proven ocean
Mugzee is purely designed around sin which is nice
fathom bramble
if it works like heroic then you definitely care a lot about execute
vivid vessel
the boss phases at 63%
fathom bramble
but again we don't know how myth will work
proven ocean
it matters when you have a boss that need execute wdym
Yea but that doesnt happen all the time i mean
proven ocean
Dps stop is a huge + for sin
vivid vessel
wdym the boss phase with hp and we will dps stop !
proven ocean
Super op
vivid vessel
no way blizzard !
fathom bramble
crown has like every design sin I can think of
proven ocean
I wonder how drastic classes changed since tww (rogue$
fathom bramble
it's just missing line of sight pillars or something
proven ocean
Are there crazy hard fights atm?
proven ocean
Full raid release or whats going in
vivid vessel
its time gated
vivid vessel
the actual last boss release next week
vivid vessel
no
vivid vessel
first week they clear 1 raid, but the actual end boss is the next week
fathom bramble
no like the boss that aotc is tied to is in the 2 boss raid
proven ocean
Ya
vivid vessel
but there isnt 2 race
proven ocean
No aotc in this one?
vivid vessel
im not sure it will even change anything
if the raid is tuned so that last boss of current raid is not killable week 1 it doesnt change anything
fathom bramble
oh wait there's an aotc for all 3 raids lol
vivid vessel
they prolly do mythic spliuts anyway
fathom bramble
midnight falls is the one that is used for other related achieves though
proven ocean
Idk the rules they applied to midnight raids makes me ask weird questions ngl
Ye i see
proven ocean
Cuz they said alot of confusing stuff initially
Ngl tho outlaw will giga fall down looking at tier list spreadsheet and wcl
Its quiet clear imo
Especially if other classes still scale the same way as tww
vivid vessel
of course
proven ocean
They just spike so hard sometimes
vivid vessel
no one is delulu here
fathom bramble
yeah I mean any discussion on rogue spec is about sin/sub
vivid vessel
used to it by now
fathom bramble
it is not an outlaw tier
proven ocean
I mean idk
vivid vessel
yeah I mean any discussion on rogue spec is about sin/sub
guy have been saying sin/outlaw tier tho
but eh
fathom bramble
idk
proven ocean
They just hate outlaw because we love outlaw too much or something
I swear its TikTok or someshit
That brainrots people
fathom bramble
guy is allowed to have his opinion and I even believed outlaw had a shot here if tuning went our way
proven ocean
Ppl like something = design the opposite
fathom bramble
but after seeing the fights on heroic myself and the tuning we got
I think it's done
vivid vessel
guy is allowed to have his opinion and I even believed outlaw had a shot here if...
you did ?
every tier bro ..
the hc week bait ..
proven ocean
I mean everyone’s opinion is valid idk its just guessing early on ish
cinder relic
If rogue wasn't tuned like dogshit there'd be more of an argument for outlaws passive cleave
vivid vessel
outlaw passive cleave is prolly the worse in the game
cinder relic
But when rogues tuning is shit you just have to be a full at merchant
fathom bramble
yeah if BF tuning had gone differently on beta
vivid vessel
bro cleaving at 30%
cinder relic
So if Ur just gonna bring a rogue to apply atrophic and just like fully ignore adds, it changes what the good specs are lol
proven ocean
bro cleaving at 30%
Remember when we said outlaw clear is too powerful that it makes us shit sometimes
cinder relic
Fundamentally, outlaw could have been solid this tier
cinder relic
Like this tier doesn't really want burst like a Manaforge or an amirdrasil does
vivid vessel
Fundamentally, outlaw could have been solid this tier
we cant just say its unlucky tuning every tier bro ?
our damage profile got worse again
proven ocean
we cant just say its unlucky tuning every tier bro ?
Thats true
cinder relic
You are missing the point
vivid vessel
idk
vivid vessel
we arent the good cleave spec anymore till they litteraly buff bf by 20%
which wont happen
ever
cinder relic
Ok
vivid vessel
Ok
brother we had 110% cleave in tww and we werent the good cleave spec
how do you think this can work with current bf
cinder relic
You aren't understanding what I'm saying
proven ocean
brother we had 110% cleave in tww and we werent the good cleave spec
Nah we were wdym
proven ocean
Outlaw cleave was so op
vivid vessel
maybe i missed the point
proven ocean
Like giga op
vivid vessel
Outlaw cleave was so op
yet we played sub on cleave boss cause it was better lol
fathom bramble
i mean maybe
if they didn't tune BF and really the whole class like junk outlaw fundamental design(ignoring the numbers on the abilities themselves) is in theory good for many of these fights
vivid vessel
might have been the only tier it would have been good
cinder relic
Outlaw was like, the best spec on soul hunters
fathom bramble
with pc gone and BF gutted we just don't have the numbers anymore
vivid vessel
so much better that race people didnt even bother
thats how much better it was
with 100% bf
proven ocean
Ppl just didnt play it well wdym
cinder relic
Holy fuck man
vivid vessel
now we have 30
cinder relic
You are so good at moving the goalposts
proven ocean
so much better that race people didnt even bother
U cant argue like that
cinder relic
Every single fucking comment
It's unreal
What's played in wf isn't always the best
There are other variables
proven ocean
I see why guy is mad tho that was completely invalid argument
proven ocean
I mean they didnt play outlaw because it was too hard to play
It was miles better tho
fathom bramble
they didn't play law because they were not prepared to play law like that
cinder relic
Why the fuck would they swap from comfort for a boss that doesn't need u to reroll
fathom bramble
not in a prog fight where execution is mattering more than doing 10-15% more damage
cinder relic
Why the fuck would they swap when they don't have a craft
Stop acting stupid
Jesus christ
vivid vessel
ok sure outlaw was good on one boss :D
cinder relic
Ahhhhhhhh
proven ocean
Cuz they’re easier to craft and play
cinder relic
Am ele player isn't going to swap enhance
proven ocean
Same wep style
cinder relic
A hunter play isn't swapping survival
vivid vessel
thats not true what
proven ocean
And an arms needs 2nd wep for fury
fathom bramble
Cuz they’re easier to craft and play
this is part of it, but honestly I think it's mostly other factors
cinder relic
A balance druid isn't swapping feral
proven ocean
Etc
fathom bramble
when you look at how much you lose using a bad weapon it's really not eating into your gain from playing a better spec
some swaps people just don't prefer to do
proven ocean
this is part of it, but honestly I think it's mostly other factors
It was the primary factor they literally played so bad
cinder relic
What are you actually talking about
fathom bramble
and prepping outlaw when it is so hard to play and has also not been best for early prog in 10 years would just be silly for these top guilds
proven ocean
That anyone in this chat that plays outlaw would’ve done a better job
Than rwf rogues
cinder relic
When are they doing this all the time
vivid vessel
What the fuck tier are people swapping to survival
well survival has been shit legit all the time but they swapped to it in sl s2, and feral on last boss adrmi, ele enhance idk i havent folloewed they always do
proven ocean
No flame but