outlaw

[vivid vessel]

nope

i tried to do it again yesterday

gave it 1 try

i got one shotted by an auto at 1%

[random stirrup]

[slim hare]

any aura buff

zac can kill nullaeus

[proven ocean]

So many noobs in the chat

Wtf

[slim hare]

then we are saved x)

[random stirrup]

also to be clear you would still be playing sub if assa got 8%

but it would make outlaw feel bad

[vivid vessel]

I know

[random stirrup]

so that's the real reason

[vivid vessel]

Contrary to blizzard employees

I'm aware that sub has a 14% tier set

So I know that whatever they are going to buff sub by

Will be too much

[fathom bramble]

when you look at gains from tier sub could get 5 while the other 2 get 10

and still come out on top

[vivid vessel]

And yet

[proven ocean]

How did i randomly react to those msgs

[vivid vessel]

We all know that sub will not get buffed less than the other 2 spec

[proven ocean]

Tf

[vivid vessel]

Never happening

[proven ocean]

Oh

Double clicking reacts

[vivid vessel]

Mine is hearths

Tf

[random stirrup]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3hRs5Bjaw4Eunb5hRVMN5T

[desert tendon]

zac u cute

[vivid vessel]

Ty

[random stirrup]

surely it will be an outlaw tier when sub outsims it on patchwerk

[vivid vessel]

sims means nothing i heard

(you can see the same already happening in logs)

[waxen scarab]

when do we roll stage 2 ?

[vivid vessel]

idk hwat this means

when do you reroll stage 2 ?

[crimson scarab]

is 22.54% haste without buffs sufficient for raiding without feeling clunky?

[fathom bramble]

yes

[waxen scarab]

i press rtb

i get stage 2

do i reroll or no

[vivid vessel]

if you have ld and kir yes

ohterwise no

[lavish jackal]

are you really linking statistics based on 1 parse saying OL is bad on this boss?

[vivid vessel]

i also linked normal

nice try tho

outlaw good on last boss for sure for sure

[lavish jackal]

you linked hc

nice try tho

[vivid vessel]

i also linked normal

i actually linked normal 3 days ago

when i had this converstation

[lime lake]

Link dn

[vivid vessel]

with the same person

[random stirrup]

presumably the fact that there are 22 sub parses and 2 of the other 2 specs combined means something as well right

[lime lake]

Pls

[vivid vessel]

you are not part of this conversation

[fathom bramble]

nothing on the last boss makes outlaw good on it

[vivid vessel]

so i dont need to explain myself to you

i think

[lime lake]

[fathom bramble]

like sure the parse count is low

[desert tendon]

zac

send me parses

please

[fathom bramble]

but the fact that sub is evidently decent on it is all we need to know

[lavish jackal]

lets link 1 parse data to gaslight the discord

niceu

[desert tendon]

i wanna know if i should reroll gdrood dps

[vivid vessel]

i linked

normal aswell

[cobalt token]

is there like an addon

[vivid vessel]

you are litteraly

braindead

[lavish jackal]

u are brainded af

ngl

[cobalt token]

to display rtb stage in a good way

[vivid vessel]

gaslight the discord

xd

[random stirrup]

i do think this one could actually be assa if it gets buffed enough

[subtle void]

any friendly person can help me to impoove watching my log

[vivid vessel]

you think outlaw is good on that boss ?

[random stirrup]

but ya def not outlaw

terrible outlaw fight

[fathom bramble]

don't need to gaslight the outlaw discord into knowing outlaw is bad on a boss with downtime lol

like what

[keen belfry]

this sendo guy kinda wild hes gaslighting us while calling out gaslighting

[fathom bramble]

yeah I could see it

[keen belfry]

i respect it

[vivid vessel]

there is no way i get attacked by a random sub player that is mad that is spec is again better than outalw on end boss

i linked normal logs 3 days ago to that person i had the conversatioon with

taht was a follow up

proving it was the same in hc

as expected

you take what i say out of context

[lavish jackal]

wasnt arguing if it was or not since I didnt progress HC yet, you mispresented data based on 1 parse

[vivid vessel]

for 0 reason

i dont

you just cant read

and take things out of context

i certainly do not misprented data

i to.ld you 3 times

i also linked normal

[keen belfry]

thats all you do zac

[vivid vessel]

days ago

to the same person

i also linked normal

3 messages bellow

you dumb fuck

stop talkiung to me

[lime lake]

[keen belfry]

https://klipy.com/gifs/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-1

[subtle void]

hello may i ask for log review

[lavish jackal]

someones malding

[keen belfry]

ask zac hes got u

[vivid vessel]

i dont like cringe people

[crimson scarab]

try !log and see if someone responds, thats what I was advised to do

[waxen scarab]

zac

[subtle void]

!log

[waxen scarab]

blade rush or bte ?

[vivid vessel]

bro ask real questions

[keen belfry]

i like bte its cooler

[vivid vessel]

what am i supposed to answer to that

[subtle void]

ty boss

[waxen scarab]

which one do i press first

[vivid vessel]

bte deff cooler tho

[fathom bramble]

bte definitely got the worse changesthis expac

projectile

tumbleweed

[vivid vessel]

you need to ask full questions bro

[fathom bramble]

blade rush just got a nice new visual

[vivid vessel]

i cant understand when its just one word

thats not how it works

press br first

[keen belfry]

is that why the reset on dinosaur sand boss is so bad???

[fathom bramble]

yes

[keen belfry]

holy fuck

i thought i was lagging up a storm

[vivid vessel]

worse part is that for some reason theyu neeeded to recode ace

when its just ace

cause ace does not have this issue lol

[keen belfry]

why did they change the wrong number on their ace patch notes for .5

make that 4 a 5 and we cool with ur changes devs

[random stirrup]

you know they changed fdk empower rune weapon to not be a projectile almost for this exact reason going into midnight

[vivid vessel]

ye gonna have to ask them that

[vivid vessel]

i mean i know that these kind of things are stuffs that get changed everytime

cause tis bad

for some reasons its the kind of mistkaes that still happens ?

[buoyant cosmos]

They changed the ace proc sound too right?

[vivid vessel]

did you know that coming into midngiht outlaw procced cps from second ss are now delayed

never was delayed before

[buoyant cosmos]

I might have just been conditioned by zacs old wa sound though

[random stirrup]

yes i saw that change too

[vivid vessel]

now it can be up to 400ms delayed

[random stirrup]

i dont want to play ur spec ngl

[fathom bramble]

I think they took the azerite noise out of it

and the other part of the sound effect is still there

[random stirrup]

i wouldve been so happy if outlaw looked possibly playable on prog in tww

[keen belfry]

shhh yes you do

[buoyant cosmos]

It just has no impact

[random stirrup]

but it's so sad now

[vivid vessel]

"We realized that cps were too fast and hard to follow, to fix that we made cps procs slower so its easier to react to"

[fathom bramble]

I liked the azerite noise

[rancid silo]

it is

[keen belfry]

can u guys imagine old outlaw existing in midnight this shit would be so fun

[fathom bramble]

but I guess they didn't like having a random azerite noise on an outlaw talent since it doesn't really fit

only had that because it was an azerite trait

[buoyant cosmos]

take me back

[keen belfry]

old outlaw with new rtb, down

[fathom bramble]

legion outlaw with new RTB

[random stirrup]

my guild would publically execute me if i played outlaw on nk/dimensius

[keen belfry]

dude these long ass cleave fights where i actually have 0 energy

is fucking my dick

[random stirrup]

and i would feel bad for doing it to them

[rancid silo]

playable and guild not allowing you are very different things

[vivid vessel]

?

it was playanble in tww?

[fathom bramble]

outlaw was not playable on dimensius

[vivid vessel]

s3 tww was prolly the worse tier outlaw ever had

at which point does a spec stop being playable

[fathom bramble]

it was BARELY playable on nexus king

[vivid vessel]

does it need to do under tank damage or what

[fathom bramble]

and only if someone else was carrying platforms

[rancid silo]

Ye and rn its alot more competitive

[random stirrup]

like you would be taking a candidate for the literal best spec in the entire game on dimensius and making it one of the worst

[fathom bramble]

and you could pretend only boss damage mattered

[random stirrup]

sorry the literal worst

[vivid vessel]

i mean we are getting baited by hc week again or

like every season

is that how it is

[buoyant cosmos]

Isn't he talking about the "rotation" not the damage profile?

[dire rampart]

in tww they were thats new

[vivid vessel]

also it looks like the litteral worse spec in the game on last boss

once again

[rancid silo]

Im no mean saying outlaw is gonna be the go to spec, but I think rn its alot better than the previous xpac in terms of prog.

[vivid vessel]

idk maybe

[rancid silo]

it feels fine on all the bosses so far

[vivid vessel]

im pretty sure outlaw looked better during first week

in tww s3

so

[random stirrup]

yes I agree, but my original point was that I don't actually want to play it anymore after all the things they did to it which is sad because it was very fun in tww

[vivid vessel]

lets be careful here

[fathom bramble]

we were better in TWW start of the raid than we are right now

actually genuinely good on at least 2 bosses

[rancid silo]

i see

[fathom bramble]

but myth week buffs could make us as good as start of TWW S3 or better

we will see

[random stirrup]

other than alleria, the fights look like outlaw could actually be decent to maybe good for a melee

[dire rampart]

when were they gonna drop new class buffs/nerfs?

[fathom bramble]

notes are most likely later today

probably in 4-5 hours

[vivid vessel]

i mena

[cobalt token]

is there a fancy way to display rtb stage?

[buoyant cosmos]

Iterating on the data mined changes? or just annoucing those changes

[cobalt token]

in like a better way than just a icon

[rancid silo]

are you able to sort it by phases

[vivid vessel]

supposedly there is 2 to 3 bosses harder than this also

[fathom bramble]

there are no datamined changes for the tuning pass

[vivid vessel]

what phase this is the council fight

[fathom bramble]

the datamining stuff was for the .5 patch that is in weeks

[rancid silo]

oh thought it was last boss nvm

[fathom bramble]

or 2 months or something

[random stirrup]

ye hmm perhaps not

[vivid vessel]

ye

[dire rampart]

arms warrior

[buoyant cosmos]

missed which one was being talked about

[random stirrup]

spec got long conned by PC ngl

[dire rampart]

2 target cleave class actually doing dmg

[random stirrup]

got it nerfed in tww to padding on adds and now that there's important low target cleave its gone

[vivid vessel]

i think the fact they nerfed bf from 50 to 30 might also be a reason

[random stirrup]

crazy

[vivid vessel]

but who am I to say

[fathom bramble]

PC had some problems with how it interacted with 8+ targets that made it feel bad

and instead of doing any iterating

they just deleted it

[random stirrup]

yeah idk

[vivid vessel]

thats what i was saying earlier

[random stirrup]

they legit murdered all rogue cleave for crimes in m0 i guess

[fathom bramble]

it was a very good balance lever that they just never moved around

[vivid vessel]

they removed another one of our niche

[random stirrup]

and now we see paladins

and every fight being 8 ranged at the top of dps

[lucid sparrow]

is vessel sims bait

[vivid vessel]

tuning this tier is legit dogshit im ngl

[fathom bramble]

vessel requires you to pick up little orbs that can be hard to see

[vivid vessel]

the fact they do 20% buffs to specs 1 day before hc week when they had all of beta

[fathom bramble]

and do not have enough time to reasonably notice and grab them without requiring a lot of attention

[vivid vessel]

then the dk thing

[astral wind]

Apparently it's just not nice to use

[random stirrup]

all the melee specs desperately trying to get that awesome 9th place dps spot while the top 5 ranged specs all just do 2x their damage on every fight

very interesting

[vivid vessel]

now outlaw doing the same 3 target cleave than the other 2 specs, while also being bottom of the entire raid in cleave

like idk xd

what is outlaw

what is rogue

[astral wind]

Doggy shit 🫪

[fathom bramble]

only 20% aura buff to be on par with the 2nd best warr spec

[dire rampart]

@blizzard

[stone cradle]

obviously we're paying the price for our raid buffs, or utility

[astral wind]

(until they buff Assa and then it'll be fucking stupid in cleave and execute fights in mythic, as per usual)

[vivid vessel]

its fine bro, low target cleave isnt outlaw niche

we are gonna be good on damage amp bosses instead

or downtime bosses instead

or

wait

100% uptime single target dummy ?

[fathom bramble]

there is no fight that makes us good, the most you can ask for is an even playing field

patchwerk 100% uptime

[random stirrup]

I hope we see sweeping massive buffs to many of the melee so there is some competition when every fight is spread cleave niche

[vivid vessel]

not even the best rogue spec on 100% uptime st

[random stirrup]

it's probably gonna result in melee meta in keys too

[fathom bramble]

yeah the best we can hope for is to be on an even playing field so we don't lose as hard

[vivid vessel]

actually lok

you know whbat

when sub gets its tier

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

it will be ahead of outlaw there aswell

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

outlaw tier btw

i was told

this is hc week also

[haughty moat]

xDD

[vivid vessel]

not even in hc week outlaw manage to look good

[random stirrup]

idk about outlaw but sub also gains a ton from guidon which I assume most of those parses don't have

so tier + strong trinket

[vivid vessel]

ye i know

[random stirrup]

it's a bit cooked

[vivid vessel]

sub also gain a lot from players learning how to press cds

[random stirrup]

ye

[vivid vessel]

like on last boss type thing

[astral wind]

Wym I love seeing my guilds warlocks, mm hunters, mages and balance druids doing 30k more DPS than me

[vivid vessel]

its alwayus a massive diff between hc week and mythic

[fathom bramble]

you mean checking someone elses log and copying it ?

[vivid vessel]

so ye

yep

[proven ocean]

If outlaw is bad in week 1 that means it’ll be worse than warlock pet dps

[fathom bramble]

I mean you could have guessed this from sims

we won't be the winning rogue spec in any tier where sub/sin sim close to us

[vivid vessel]

no i was told sims are useless

[slim hare]

yeah

sim are useless

[fathom bramble]

the stuff that makes sims innacurate(fight mechanics, downtime, burst value) as a raid performance predictor are all things that play against outlaw

not for us

[slim hare]

there is no pattern after 15 season

[proven ocean]

Outlaw usually shines early on and super drops later

Now we’re in the “outlaw is shining” stage

So

We’re getting 5% nerfed every week without patch notes cuz

[slim hare]

it will be bad

[proven ocean]

Every other class is getting 5% stronger ish from gear

And we arent

[slim hare]

this won't happen tho

[proven ocean]

So good luck

[slim hare]

thats unusual

[proven ocean]

Ur new to the game

[slim hare]

naaah all rogue are bad no way we eat a nerf

[proven ocean]

It happens every tier

[haughty moat]

yo guys is the ?? delve boss doable as outlaw? has anybody done it? he claps like a truck

[slim hare]

i know

[proven ocean]

Im not talking about nerfs

Im talking scaling

We dont scale with ilvl

[slim hare]

actually bet on us taking a berf next reset

[vivid vessel]

just wait a bit its legit cringe as outlaw

[proven ocean]

Other classes do alot more than us

[slim hare]

we scale way better than before tho

crit being better than verse now

[proven ocean]

XD

[fathom bramble]

simpler to just do it in a group for now

we scale marginally better than before

[vivid vessel]

he is not wrong

[slim hare]

maybe not way better

but still

[fathom bramble]

it's still not close to classes that would say something like "Vers is just bad"

[slim hare]

not versa spec anymore

[proven ocean]

We’ll see about that

[icy hare]

Loa Worshiper's Band a good craft for us?

[haughty moat]

i see then iam not crazy^^

[random stirrup]

that's actually also a good point sub also scales very well now compared to before

[fathom bramble]

our WW posted this earlier

[proven ocean]

U guys havent seen how warlocks and these types of classes crazy scale with just 1 enchant

[slim hare]

ive seen

[jolly geyser]

subs best stat went from mast to mast

or haste

[random stirrup]

ye but you used to get about equal amounts of vers

now look at it

[vivid vessel]

this doesnt mean anything tho

isnt this best setup ?

so if

[proven ocean]

Zac

[vivid vessel]

if crit is .1 ahead of vers

at max crit

it will look that way

anyway

[proven ocean]

The reason why im zaccing rn is i dont know

[slim hare]

carrying all my guildmate in m0 with no enchant doing twice their dmg (as sub mobs dies too fast)they were mad.
then no one would see me in details on the raid with full enchant x)

[proven ocean]

[frail veldt]

oof

[random stirrup]

haste cap btw

[frail veldt]

yeaaaah

[proven ocean]

Wdym thats normal

[frail veldt]

love having bloodlust suck ass

[proven ocean]

We had tiers like that in DF

crit was good

[frail veldt]

who was it in here trying to say bloodlust was gona be good now cuz it scales our auto attacks

[vivid vessel]

i mean m y crit is high

but once i get crit

its kinda gg i guess

[random stirrup]

that was for sub to be clear

[proven ocean]

U can crit my balls zac

[vivid vessel]

also it seems like i hit haste cap aswell

[proven ocean]

Rn

[frail veldt]

Yeah but before the weights were like that even with vers at 35%

[fathom bramble]

that's my split alt that has the good gear rn

[near rock]

When will the dooming end

[frail veldt]

now I would really doubt if vers is our best stat at 35% haha

[proven ocean]

Yoo oondasta

[vivid vessel]

when will you open your eyes and stop coping

[fathom bramble]

idk it just gets worse with every tier where the dooming comes true

[frail veldt]

nah someone was det tryna say that

about outlaw

that having autos as a higher percent of our damage

will make bloodlust good

[fathom bramble]

I mean bloodlust isn't good

but it did make bloodlust better

than it was

[frail veldt]

yeah true

marginally though but still true

[jolly geyser]

people should be able to choose BL buff

[fathom bramble]

bloodlust should be removed from the game

[maiden valley]

is there a talent build for pre 4p? 245 and i kinda cant finish a dungeon with over 35k dps overall and i just cant find out why

[jolly geyser]

or that lok

[fathom bramble]

burst is already inherently better

[frail veldt]

that would be fun

"set bloodlust to crit"

[proven ocean]

Blood lust is fun for progressing raid fights

[fathom bramble]

it doesn't need giga haste on their cooldowns on pull

[proven ocean]

I like it

[vivid vessel]

that would prolly be worse for us tbf

[proven ocean]

I love lust

Makes prog fun

Adds flavor

P3 lust p2 lust

Etc

[vivid vessel]

like im sure most specs could opt into other stats and get more dps from lust

than we would ever get

from going another stat

[slim hare]

you have low haste or you do rotation really bad
also dungeon depending on who your playing with can be really bad

[maiden valley]

how much haste do i need?

[frail veldt]

I think lust is cool

raidwide damage cooldowns can be fun

good agency over fights

[vivid vessel]

ye i dont mind

[slim hare]

25%

[fathom bramble]

make potions way stronger instead

[vivid vessel]

thye did that also

[random stirrup]

can you run an 8 target one for me

im curious

[vivid vessel]

:D

[random stirrup]

2mins or something

[maiden valley]

okay imma write that down and check after LFR

[proven ocean]

Potions stronger makes m+ annoying

Fuck no

[vivid vessel]

potions are way stronger in midnight

[slim hare]

lfr might be better but on short fight outlaw can't do anything against burst spec

[proven ocean]

It’ll make burst classes shine more

[proven ocean]

They stay on the same lvl anyway tho

[fathom bramble]

potions should come in forms that aren't just stats

[proven ocean]

Its just season 1 thing isnt it

[fathom bramble]

there is a world where potions don't suck as a system

[proven ocean]

That pots are op

As usual

[maiden valley]

nah i'am on my main atm

[slim hare]

yep

[vivid vessel]

nah i dont thik so

[fathom bramble]

I don't think lust is reasonable to change into a system that doesn't suck

but potions have the framework to do a ton of different things

[proven ocean]

Why what do they give

[vivid vessel]

a lot of stats

[proven ocean]

in %

[slim hare]

give rogue lust

[proven ocean]

And duration

[vivid vessel]

comparatively to how it was in tww

[proven ocean]

Whats the % and duration of x stats

[slim hare]

all dps should have lust or rez imo

[proven ocean]

Wtf

[slim hare]

yeah

potion stonk

[quaint wharf]

pot is giga

isnt there a different one

with more agi

[stiff shuttle]

@near rock bis trinket outlaw bro?

[vivid vessel]

is there ?

[near rock]

Sub

[slim hare]

yeah but you have to play the game and avoid shit

[vivid vessel]

what

[slim hare]

more agi against risk of becomming insane

[random stirrup]

it spawns pacify puddles

[vivid vessel]

this one ?

you become cute

:3

[random stirrup]

Draught of abandon

Some other word in there

[random stirrup]

Idk how ots was playing it when it did this to me on beta

Skill issue maybe

[quaint wharf]

ye this one

[lime lake]

its very cursed

[slim hare]

on big boss its probably douable

[jolly geyser]

750g for one

[slim hare]

but cursed

[vivid vessel]

i mean ok

it opened one

for the entire duration

[keen belfry]

i rlly wanna play wow

[vivid vessel]

and you can just walk out

[keen belfry]

but noting to do

[vivid vessel]

surely we just play that lol ?

does it affect other players

[jolly geyser]

done the quests and wqs?

[frail veldt]

dont you do entire world tour every day rn?

[jolly geyser]

just look at stuff 2 monitor

[keen belfry]

not if u get gear

[frail veldt]

true

too geared

[random stirrup]

idk it can proc a lot seems a bit rng

[frail veldt]

play an alt

[keen belfry]

quests and world quests...

[fathom bramble]

it's worth reiterating that these exist mostly for curiosity and only represent a rough idea of how good the stats are on my character at this specific moment and shouldn't be used to overall pick stats in any general use case

[keen belfry]

finding a fun spec is not easy rn

[quaint wharf]

it would probably affect like 2nd boss slam, stuff like that

[frail veldt]

agreed

[fathom bramble]

but yeah we don't scale that great

[frail veldt]

im just pvp main now

[jolly geyser]

good time to finish other games

[fathom bramble]

2 stats below vers already on my character

crit barely above

[random stirrup]

I know, just comparing scaling with someone with another geared character for rn

[fathom bramble]

other specs in the game have 2 or 3 stats way above vers

yes, it's better than before where we stacked vers to the moon

but it's not that great still

the effects that it had on the spec will still be present just lessened a bit

this als odoesn't exist in a vacuum though and if scaling in general went up then we would still be far behind

or perhaps scaling in general could go down and the gap narrowed(pretty sure this didn't happen)

[vivid vessel]

2nd boss slam?

[quaint wharf]

ye like the donut, if a pool spawns under its kinda tragic

but i havent actually used the pot, just imagining

[vivid vessel]

bro wdym donut

what are we talking about

[frail veldt]

prob the aoe thing where the bad is around you

in the raid

the boss mechanic?

its like a donut shape

safe zone in the middle

[lapis sandal]

In my opinion, I liked the Versa stack, it gave us a melee class identity that did damage and was somewhat tankier, in addition to making good trinkets that scaled with Versa in an absurd way that no other class used.

[frail veldt]

a lot of that was bte giving crit damage

[keen belfry]

this is mine

[vivid vessel]

@random stirrup xd

i think you were right

it might be slightly rng

[crimson scarab]

how do you have only 0.94 vers lol

[frail veldt]

vers bad

[vivid vessel]

also notice how it dropped a puddle while i was jumping

[fathom bramble]

is that a silence and pacify?

[vivid vessel]

so its in the air

[fathom bramble]

or could you just stand in it

[vivid vessel]

no i cant cast

[random stirrup]

8 tg 5mins for sub

[crimson scarab]

ye i know, thats what i currently have, without thief

[vivid vessel]

wtc

wtf

almost twice !

[fathom bramble]

okay mastery kind of juiced I guess

[vivid vessel]

on every stat

wait

88 mastery

bro its so over

its a sub tier in keys aswell

[fathom bramble]

literally 70% more secondary stat scaling power than our stats

[random stirrup]

yeah that's after they nerfed mastery scaling in aoe

[frail veldt]

Outlaw tier!

[keen belfry]

u have more vers equipped than me

[fathom bramble]

if they just stack mastery to the moon

[frail veldt]

crafting mainhand first

[random stirrup]

puzzle box goes absolutely crazy

[vivid vessel]

after seeing this im now convinced sub is also better in keys

@random stirrup thoughts?

[jolly geyser]

box been crazy since df

[random stirrup]

i think dk is better in keys

[vivid vessel]

ye he wont say it

i see how it is

gg

[fathom bramble]

engineering items will be giga on sub for the mastery stack

[crimson scarab]

yeah for sure, at what % does crit fall of?

[random stirrup]

when i sent this image, the other stats don't fall off in aoe that's just how far mastery pulls ahead

[slim hare]

i mean in m0 its not even close

[random stirrup]

it's a bit crazy

[keen belfry]

40 ish

[fathom bramble]

crit falls off gradually, but does not have the kind of sharp falloff that hast has

so 40 ish is a very large ish

[slim hare]

but even when your solo dps and it last longer dmg doesnt go down in aoe

sub is sick

[crimson scarab]

and for sub does mastery fall of at a certain threshold?

[keen belfry]

id guss with my lack of anything not crit or haste it has already started falling off for me

[slim hare]

no

[fathom bramble]

no

it's just % finisher damage

[crimson scarab]

crazy

[fathom bramble]

and extra % black powder damage

[random stirrup]

i think you could 30% dr and mastery would prob still be best aoe stat

[crimson scarab]

yeye fair enough

[fathom bramble]

it has no soft cap mechanic beyond the normal secondary stat rating DR

[random stirrup]

maybe not

[slim hare]

extra black powder dmg goes really hard in aoe

[vivid vessel]

ryldd

[crimson scarab]

i just did a few keys as sub with 44% mastery

[vivid vessel]

can you post a sim

of an aoe sub

8 target

with m+ build

[crimson scarab]

felt like i was pumping so much compared to outlaw but it was so boring ngl

[random stirrup]

raid buffs or no

[vivid vessel]

sure

we are raid buffed in keys now anyway

who would go into keys without shaman

[fathom bramble]

I ran my 8 target without buffs gg

[random stirrup]

oh ye i was gonna ask

ur primary looks very low

[random stirrup]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jxJKY1bsVHgpvd5xhdku5r

[slim hare]

xD

[vivid vessel]

no hm

can you take fuu profile

just make it aoe talents

and all the things

[random stirrup]

uhh ye give me a moment

[vivid vessel]

i just dont know the things that change and shit

im clueless

well i guess i can

wait

[keen belfry]

i am so hungry

[prisma lantern]

Double dips on mastery. Is strong.

[vivid vessel]

will you play trickster in keys

or ds

whats the conscensus here

[prisma lantern]

Trickster 100%

[quaint wharf]

trickster for sub

[random stirrup]

ds is giga ass

[crimson scarab]

isnt trickster better in m+ for sub?

[prisma lantern]

Better in ST too if DS bugs out on you.

[random stirrup]

unless you like really funnel i guess

[slim hare]

ds is ass except full st

[crimson scarab]

i think ds was playable in the beginning for pvp but now everyone runs trickster as well

[keen belfry]

im gonna play DS in aoe and trickster in full ST as sub i thik

[vivid vessel]

i wanted to see how much damage sub did to main target

while bping

vs outlaw

[random stirrup]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n3SWWftS4gWeoCHk2ycgby

actually same number!

[vivid vessel]

i guess i can cope about outlaw havbing prio

[random stirrup]

for overall

outlaw scaling to the moon

[vivid vessel]

outlaw doing same 8t damage is a bit concerning tho but

oh well

all good

it will get buffed for sure for sure

[keen belfry]

its ok we have BR for big pulls

[random stirrup]

also a straight up patchwerk 5min constant cleave

[keen belfry]

we will catchup

[vivid vessel]

ye..

[slim hare]

well sub doesnt have a target cap

[random stirrup]

actually ye maybe it is not a good look to sim equal to sub on exactly 8 target constant cleave

maybe it is cooked

[vivid vessel]

like sub gonna go into a 15 target pack

with full cds

and do 4 times outlaw damage

[slim hare]

but for us it'll be busted, zac ?

[vivid vessel]

[slim hare]

just uncap us balance a bit

and we could do the same

[random stirrup]

blade rush uncapped damage zac

huge

[vivid vessel]

sure

[slim hare]

HUGE

[fathom bramble]

well BR is softcapped now

but yeah

[slim hare]

how is it sofcapped ?

[fathom bramble]

deals reduced damage beyond 8 targets

standard softcap

[vivid vessel]

they decided uncapped was too op

[fathom bramble]

although the mastery hits it is applying continue to scale in an uncapped way

but mastery is still bad so it doesn't really matter

you'll never have enough mastery to make that effect noticeable

[slim hare]

but wtf

its nowhere ingame

[vivid vessel]

xd

[fathom bramble]

says it right on the spell

[vivid vessel]

br gonna help guys

[slim hare]

ffs

[prisma bramble]

Is outlaw on par with fury in m+ or am i just being delulu

[slim hare]

BR not BF

mb

[vivid vessel]

after much considering

seeing what im seeing in raid

i think outlaw might also be dogshit in m+

[fathom bramble]

my panda literally sims higher than my split alt thanks to how insane panda buff is @vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

whatdehelly!

[vivid vessel]

goes crazy

how is it a female bro

panda male is so much better

[fathom bramble]

there's no way you want to play male panda

[vivid vessel]

yes?

if i play panda im rocking the belly bro

tf

[magic shuttle]

Panda male has a cool jump animation

[vivid vessel]

it does

goated jump anim

and stealth

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/panda-assassin-hunter-chengdu-china-gif-8988743835027800252

[vivid vessel]

male panda is my top 2 race after night elf lok

[fathom bramble]

well

agree to disagree idk

male panda looks so bad to me I just could not play that

[vivid vessel]

wtf ..

[jolly geyser]

dwarf and male panda is some dogshit

[vivid vessel]

ayo

stfu bro

[winter cave]

Eerlier there was a rotation question and I realised there's something I might not understand for optimal play:

• 1 CP/ RtB 2/ 3 Opp procs -> I SS
• Got 6 CP I press finisher
• I have 1 CP with 6 Opp procs which will always lead to 5 CP
• RtB is available

Do I SS at 5 for RtB ?

[keen belfry]

whats SB

srimson bial

[jolly geyser]

shadowblade,idfk

[keen belfry]

i have no clue what sb is

[vivid vessel]

@random stirrup

you there cuh

[keen belfry]

shroud of behidden

[fathom bramble]

dwarf is 0.7% behind at my current ilvl lol

and my split alt is orc which is abysmal so

[vivid vessel]

oh its not that much

[keen belfry]

whats sb bro

[vivid vessel]

shadow blades

[fathom bramble]

orc probably 2% behind or something

[misty bridge]

Smash Button

[keen belfry]

summarility bispatch

[jolly geyser]

soggy balls

[lapis sandal]

search buff

[keen belfry]

\

where is SB

[fathom bramble]

shadowblades

[keen belfry]

shadowblades is back to outlaw?

LETS GO

[fathom bramble]

yeah just macro it into ar

[keen belfry]

AR u serious

LOL!

thought on newe mog lok?

[jolly geyser]

trump likes cp

combo points

[vivid vessel]

[keen belfry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1401961493825847407/tank2.gif

[fathom bramble]

yeah just use this macro

[random stirrup]

Sorta

[vivid vessel]

how come sub has one harcap of haste

[keen belfry]

i really miss WA packs

[vivid vessel]

and not multiple

[jolly geyser]

imagine

[random stirrup]

It does have multiple, at 200 700 1200 ish

But 700 is extra good for timings or smth

[vivid vessel]

hm

why 700 !

[random stirrup]

Let’s you super charge things properly

since it’s now triggers by dance

[keen belfry]

yeah zac

it lets u usperlcharge

[vivid vessel]

crazy

[mighty pivot]

zac didn't know

[keen belfry]

zac when asked why 700 haste
idk

[random stirrup]

Also sht actually

The sht hard cap is like 500 or something low

[keen belfry]

no sht?

[random stirrup]

You overcap in blades above that

[keen belfry]

thats the sht

[glossy gull]

On logs can you see what you rolled with roll the bones?

[keen belfry]

buff tab durty

[keen belfry]

this is outlaw channel, enough

[lapis sandal]

I especially like the "roll the bones" indicator with my modifications and the beep for the bf

[keen belfry]

remember when something stunk and u could just make a WA

[fathom bramble]

you can do some crazy stuff with arcui

[vivid vessel]

HOLY

[keen belfry]

yes but then u have to use ARCUI

[fathom bramble]

kind of hoping if/when it gets more polished we see some WA pack like stuff again

what's wrong with arcui

[mighty pivot]

banger expansion so far

[fathom bramble]

other than the extreme frustration of customization compared to WA

[vivid vessel]

everything is doghsit for some reason xd

[mighty pivot]

UI war crimes all over the place

[random stirrup]

You didn’t remember me bozo we’re done

[vivid vessel]

my favorite is legit having 3 private aura permanently in the middle of my screen

cause for some reason everything is a private aura now

[winter cave]

I wrote SB instead of SS

I'm tired

[keen belfry]

no no i was speaking in past tense i remember randomly u said someting in game and i was like who is bingusguppy

awhile agoa

[vivid vessel]

aoa

agoa

[random stirrup]

[keen belfry]

aoaoaoao

[vivid vessel]

agoo gaga

[keen belfry]

SS at 1 if 2+ rtb and fatebound AND not 6 opp stacks

if u got 6 opp stacks

press that thang cuh!

[mighty pivot]

the reason is that they didn't have the time to cook something better, because they overestimated their progress and made changes one expansion too early (thanks, ion )

[keen belfry]

what do u guys think?

[vivid vessel]

i mean i get htat but

why is every debuff a private aura

like even if by some exploit you can see that this guy got this debuff

[keen belfry]

personally i dont play tbc so idc, so i also dont care wha tu guys think

[vivid vessel]

why do i care

most these debuffs are useeless

[jolly geyser]

ask the tbc folks

[vivid vessel]

to see

[jolly geyser]

wdym

[vivid vessel]

so why are they private

[vivid vessel]

on dragon boss you have a permanent debuff

idk what it is even

and its private?

[jolly geyser]

ask the tbc folks

[winter cave]

yeah but that lead us to 5 CP and if BtE is up

[mighty pivot]

dunno someone has a hardon about making it impossible for addons to do anything. They just defaulted to pa for everything because thinking which one should be pa takes time

[winter cave]

we have to SS again

and waste a lot

hence the doubt

on the absolute best

[vivid vessel]

ye so now you are supposed to have 2 debuff bar

[keen belfry]

mhm but u dont have 6 opp stacks so its fine to ss

[vivid vessel]

at least before private aura were kinda like

ok this is important debuff

you can make that big and track it middle of the screen

[glass mortar]

its more wasting to press SS have it proc and lose an entire opp

this outlaw dumps a ton of CP to overcap

[winter cave]

Okay so I was playign right

[glass mortar]

it is what it is

would be worse as trickster

[mighty pivot]

they even made that dog bleed of this season's delve boss pa

like why

[tulip perch]

is this trinket so broken? i never saw this on any build lists.

[keen belfry]

how did they remove 2fth shenangians but also make fth kinda shit

[vivid vessel]

ye idk xd

[keen belfry]

rememeber when you could fth and get 6 combo points

[vivid vessel]

:D

[mighty pivot]

vessel oversims because it assumes you run around picking up souls spawns which is not realistic

[jolly geyser]

have fun collecting the orbs or whatever the fuck it is

[mystic berry]

did we get buffed yet?

[lucid sparrow]

am i confused or y am i getting 3 supercharged combo points

its 2 usually no

[glass mortar]

it stacks past two if u dont consume them before ARing again somehow

but uh

that shouldnt ever happen

[lucid sparrow]

i randomly get 3 sometimes

[glass mortar]

maybe ui bug

you dont ever get 3

[lucid sparrow]

weird

[vivid vessel]

i dont think you get 3

i never get 3

[keen belfry]

watch this guys

[mighty pivot]

record it

[glass mortar]

u would never get past 2 in the natural rotation

[lucid sparrow]

ill try to record it

[keen belfry]

LOOK AT THAT

6 CP!!!

[glass mortar]

if u messed up and went AR > prep > AR then u could have 3 or 4 tho

[keen belfry]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[vivid vessel]

wang

[lucid sparrow]

nah its

normal rotation

[vivid vessel]

they removed 1fth

[lucid sparrow]

its very random

[vivid vessel]

and made 2 fth 1 fth

just dont ask too many questrions

its how it is

[cinder relic]

Its good but gimmicky

[glass mortar]

i mean they didnt make 2 fth 1 fth, if we were in last expacs rules this wouldnt even be a complaint

[jolly geyser]

awang make your bar not lag in 30man raid

[keen belfry]

EVERY BAR LAG!

[vivid vessel]

they did tho ?

[glass mortar]

its a lil sad tho sure that PS only gets u to 5 and u dont finish there now

[vivid vessel]

since it doesnt work with bs

[jolly geyser]

fix the everything awang

[glass mortar]

baseline 1 fth PS gave u 4 CP last expac?

[vivid vessel]

ye with bs it did

[frail veldt]

with BS

[vivid vessel]

and we had perma bs

[glass mortar]

oh im sorry i forgot we have 100% uptime on BS and we should only ever consider what it played like with that

😠

maybe u did

[jolly geyser]

fix it zac, make a wa man

[vivid vessel]

it gave 5 cp actually

[frail veldt]

yeah I t hink it was like 70%

[vivid vessel]

was more legit

[glass mortar]

in sims it was like 75% the last season or somethign

[keen belfry]

GUYS FTH IS SO BAD NOW!

[frail veldt]

its worse yeah

[keen belfry]

imagine we get a worse fth and delayed gen

IMAGINE

[glass mortar]

did SS fill ur whole CP bar with BS last expac

i actually cant remember

im too old

[jolly geyser]

perma bullshit,true

[glass mortar]

like if u had 1 CP and BS up and SS procced

was it SS > finisher

[frail veldt]

old SS with proc was 4cp right?

and bs

or was it 5 also

[glass mortar]

should be yea and fatebound still gave +1 didnt it, or is that new

[frail veldt]

I cant remember

[vivid vessel]

well we didnt play fatebound

[glass mortar]

no fatebound gave +1 last expac

[frail veldt]

yeah I thnk it was 5 with fatebound

but we didnt play fate

[glass mortar]

but we didnt play it much yea

[frail veldt]

so SS is the same as before

[vivid vessel]

nothing changed that way

[frail veldt]

ss got stronger relative to fth

[vivid vessel]

they just made 2 fth 1 fth

[frail veldt]

cuz fth got nerfed

[glass mortar]

BS got nerfed

or u mean last expac

[vivid vessel]

which im surprised not many people complained about

[frail veldt]

yeah true

BS is what got nerfed essentially

[glass mortar]

well the thing is

it does feel a little like BS uptime is higher on live then it was in tww even

[keen belfry]

team, they removed uhuh, crackshot, and CTO and replaced with with a downtime talent that does nothing, a capstone we dont take, and another capstone designed for the other spec

THOUGHTS?

[glass mortar]

maybe not if ur zac tho

[vivid vessel]

it is ?

we have like 90% uptime

on 2

[glass mortar]

sure

[keen belfry]

i still think we need to remove the outlaw rogue changes in midnight section from wowhead, if we want to attract more players

[glass mortar]

so if we had original FtH and this outlaw we'd be 1 builder > finisher like

whats SS proc rate

[meager lichen]

@vivid vessel do you use macro for opener, so ar, rtb, kir?

[frail veldt]

it for sure is

[glass mortar]

85% of the time

maybe they wanted to avoid that

since they buffed BS uptime

[frail veldt]

old BS was like 65% most of the time i think

new BS is like 90+

[vivid vessel]

no

[keen belfry]

weran the minute you are here BS uptime is 100% cause all u say is BS

sorry

[frail veldt]

LOL

GOTTTTEM

[vivid vessel]

im just sad we lost the good part about fth

1 fth

while keeping the bad part about it

[glass mortar]

and they originally nerfed FtH in DF cause they didnt want us to be going builder > finisher > builder > finisher for 90% of the rotation

[vivid vessel]

would rather have kept having 2 stacks

was fun

[glass mortar]

so its not that surprising they nerfed BS when they buffed its uptime

to avoid that again

idk

[vivid vessel]

i mena

[glass mortar]

as long as we never play trickster

[vivid vessel]

we have what

10% more bs uptime lol ?

[keen belfry]

i loved how cp (combo point) efficient previous outlaw was

[glass mortar]

with fatebound PS still means ur going 1 builder finisher 80% of the time anyway?

no?

[keen belfry]

u didnt waste combo points

[frail veldt]

yeah just finishing at 5cp a lot

[glass mortar]

yea

[frail veldt]

as trickste ryou arent though

as trickster you have to fth->builder

[glass mortar]

its a nerf for sure to ur stuff that procs off CP

i dont wanna play midnight trickster

ever btw

[frail veldt]

cuz trickster doesnt finish at 5

[vivid vessel]

trickster feels like dog

[glass mortar]

especially with this new talent on ptr

[vivid vessel]

i hate it

[frail veldt]

so it feels awful

[glass mortar]

[frail veldt]

yeah

if trickster is the meta build

outlaw is going to feel

SO FUCKING BAD

holy fuck

[glass mortar]

dispatching at 5 actually saves this outlaw so much

[frail veldt]

I hope they never buff trickster

[glass mortar]

trickster just shits CP into the nether

endlessly

[frail veldt]

SO MUCH

[mighty pivot]

trickster new burst spec

[vivid vessel]

i know

[keen belfry]

trickster has less energy and cp and procs and has killing spree

[glass mortar]

it feels so bad

[vivid vessel]

i said that in beta day 1 btw

do you guys not remember

i wanted to play 6 cp max

[glass mortar]

could u imagine

hold on guys

i havent actually experienced this this expac and i might refuse to ever play it

1 buff trickster

u cant even dispatch when u get a PS proc

just gotta build forever

[vivid vessel]

ace also works with 6 cp ..

[glass mortar]

always building

[vivid vessel]

we could have had it all guys

we just needed -1 max cp ..

and outlaw would be goated ..

[glass mortar]

like when u have 1 buff it actually feels so shit

[keen belfry]

IM SO HUNGRY

[glass mortar]

but at least each time PS procs u know u can still get a 1 builder finisher cycle

that just doesnt exist for trickster

its so bad

[vivid vessel]

guys