Makes 2 pointer ace mandatory
#outlaw
wintry solar
fair ore
7% increase im curious to see how many resets there will be
wintry solar
Idk what we're dropping for it yet though
wintry solar
To be like old ace? No
daring yoke
I think we get less gravedigger as well with that change?
cinder relic
why would they be lying
uncut ginkgo
run tricksters in delves, with edict and mandate for valeera, ezmode
wintry solar
why would they be lying
What do you drop for 2 ace?
uncut ginkgo
ace getting adjusted anyways
final pagoda
did anyone beat ?? nulleus with valeera ~20 lvl?
lime lake
ive seen people say they did it at 18
i didnt though, mine was 30 
imagine not leveling up your pokemon before the gym battle
fair ore
Just testing the limits 😅
final pagoda
run tricksters in delves, with edict and mandate for valeera, ezmode
mandate is like 0.5% dps
why do u recommend it?
final pagoda
how do u even find it epic
uncut ginkgo
the more bountiful you do, you will get them
open bane
more i play outlaw more i dont like this spec at all
everything smh feels very wrong idk what it is
tww was cool
final pagoda
the more bountiful you do, you will get them
how many u did and how did u farm keys for them?
fair ore
I’ve sadly maxed out on coffer and only got blue mandate
hollow tartan
anyone else getting eclipsed in damage or just me?
dawn tundra
Why even bother?
I can't seem to do anything right in terms of pressing the buttons and my DPS remains trash.
Should just throw my Rogue in the dumpster.
final pagoda
practice
teal nebula
I was told to stop checking WoWHead/Icyveins/Method for my talent builds, and to check the class Discord. So, uhhh...
Anywhere around here I can see optimal talent builds for ST Raid and Cleave Raid?
final pagoda
faq
dawn tundra
Aren't the Ravenholdt ones just what WoWhead reccommends?
teal nebula
Ah.
Well, now I have to explain to the others that the class Discord does just recommend the WoWHead builds, and that Outlaw remains in a bad spot. A different build to fix these problems just doesn't exist.
final pagoda
the guy that writes the guides on wowhead is also a theorycrafter of ravenholdt
it would be weird if they recommend very different guides
I think your friend recommended you to go to class discord to understand the nuances of the spec
desert tendon
usually the wowhead is generic and dont go too much indepths
final pagoda
the builds are pretty solid this xpac, i.e. not much variance
desert tendon
discord is the way to go
final pagoda
basically u can run fatebound ST/AoE and u cover 99% of the cases
teal nebula
So, M+ build for the cleave fights, more or less.
final pagoda
yep
teal nebula
But, nah, I was specifically told to ask for talent builds, since I was getting roughed up on the DPS meter, lmao.
final pagoda
In AoE we will always take 
Grand Melee and you need :bf: Dancing Steel to connect to it, so for raid cleave you have a choice to go full AoE or none. 
Deft Maneuvers is worth it for keys but probably should not be used in raid cleave.
^this is from the faq
which fight are you struggling with and what talents are you running?
teal nebula
We did a full run (except Crown) on Normal Voidspire, fought the Harandar raid boss on Normal, then went back into Voidspire on Heroic, and my damage is, uhh... lackluster. I was using the Fatebound Raid talent tree from WoWHead.
final pagoda
so ur struggling on voidspire heroic with fatebound ST?
teal nebula
I'd say it's the raid as a whole, so far. I'm still recovering from no longer having my Pavlov audio cues, but it still feels downright awful to go from "Cutting Edge" to "barely above last place on the DPS meter".
And, ye, ST build. I had just grabbed the Raid build that WoWHead recommended, and was using it throughout.
When my eyes started failing, I hooked up all of my procs and major cooldowns to their own unique audio cues via WeakAuras. Now I'm right back to trying to count down the duration of RtB and Blade Flurry.
solemn karma
A lot of the fights don’t want pure single target build
You can pull fight specific talent builds from the wowhead page under the “raid tips” section of the spec guides
shadow trellis
I'd say it's the raid as a whole, so far. I'm still recovering from no longer ha...
Tbf rogue is in a pretty rough spot right now
teal nebula
It's felt like Outlaw has been in a pretty rough spot since Shadowlands, felt REALLY nice for Aberrus, specifically, and then went right back to "Oh, this doesn't feel great".
Underhanded Upperhand and Crackshot, my beloved.
May you rest in peace.
teal nebula
I had a personal vendetta against Shadowlands Outlaw because I had gone from "Oh yeah, Blade Flurry do be hitting everything" to "oh, every spec is hard capped", only to watch as Blizzard gave soft caps back to everyone but Outlaw.
final pagoda
I'd say it's the raid as a whole, so far. I'm still recovering from no longer ha...
honestly especially now in midnight, the spec is much easier
shadow trellis
Loved dragonflight outlaw mann
teal nebula
I am loving that Roll the Bones is no longer a crapshoot, but a four tier buff.
hollow tartan
I liked outlaw after aberrus but when they put in the haste requirement for ADR it basically did number on outlaw IMO. the fact that it still exist now that we have a lot of time with out ADR feelsbadman
final pagoda
no more rtb tracking and changing rotation based on rolls, not many minmax optimizations, from 84 APM to like 70?
winter falcon
Loved BFA outlaw
teal nebula
Hidden Opportunity APM was insane.
wintry solar
Loved BFA outlaw
2nd best outlaw for sure
final pagoda
do u have logs to check what ur doing wrong?
teal nebula
I remember pulling up the logs in Dragonflight, because the Fury Warrior said their APM was wayyyyy higher than mine, only to show that my APM doubled theirs.
final pagoda
if u struggle on ALL bosses, it may be rotation
teal nebula
Other than the loss of Stealthplay, has the rotation changed much at all from TWW?
past falcon
@keen belfry i have just now learned, today march 19 2026, that i can favorite gifs on discord rate my IQ
wintry solar
Other than the loss of Stealthplay, has the rotation changed much at all from TW...
No back to back bte
final pagoda
I mean there is no more crackshot and stealth, that's huge change
teal nebula
Yeah, that still sucks. I miss my Crackshot.
dawn tundra
When my eyes started failing, I hooked up all of my procs and major cooldowns to...
I feel like that's part of my issue. When doing Raid bosses, I'm having to do mechanics, move around, make sure to kill something, etc. My eyes not only suck, they're focused on other stuff.
wintry solar
Ho doesn't hit twice and FtH was changed a bit
teal nebula
But that's what I mean with Stealthplay. The generalized "Farm for Vanish, go bonkers".
final pagoda
I feel like that's part of my issue. When doing Raid bosses, I'm having to do me...
usually 1hr on dummy fix this
shadow trellis
It counts procs
fair ore
I feel like that's part of my issue. When doing Raid bosses, I'm having to do me...
Yeah it’s a lot going on
wintry solar
But that's what I mean with Stealthplay. The generalized "Farm for Vanish, go bo...
Br is also a big part of your rotation now
For energy
mystic berry
muscle memory goes. long way for law
shadow trellis
Big true
teal nebula
One thing that really bothers me is Energy starvation. I thought it would get better with Blade Rush, but it still feels like there are plenty of points in time where I'm just waiting for my Energy to crawl back up to then pray for SS to proc Opportunity.
final pagoda
energy starvation is usually a symptom of mistakes in the rotation
fair ore
Yeah I’ve gotten the rotations down it’s more of DPS going down because of raid mechanics
dawn tundra
At this rate, I feel like raiding's just a bust for Outlaw.
final pagoda
if you like the class, I'd say you need to practice much more
fair charm
Once my haste was back over 20%, energy seems fine again.
final pagoda
and you can do great in raid (if ur not in a CE guild)
past falcon
i think familiarity with mechanics goes a long long way in raid and m+
final pagoda
this raid wasn't an issue imo in terms of active time
it's not inherently bad for outlaw
a lot of cleave fights too
fair ore
Yeah energy feels great at 19% haste
final pagoda
it's just that u cant press 2 button and be top of meters like demo lock
teal nebula
Shit, it's the same spec I've been playing since 2020, almost exclusively. Back in Dragonflight and TWW, I was cranking. Got to last phase on Mythic Ansurek, got Cutting Edge on Gally, got to Mythic Dimensius.
fair ore
I suppose it’s just my crit needs to get higher
final pagoda
but if that's what ur looking for, change spec
fair ore
it's just that u cant press 2 button and be top of meters like demo lock
IMO I like it that way I enjoy outlaws rotations
It feels amazing
final pagoda
yep exactly, it's fun
teal nebula
Something has just felt off since Midnight prepatch, and I can't put my finger on it.
wintry solar
Yeah energy feels great at 19% haste
I found that's the bare minimum haste.
19 and up feels fine
fair ore
My mastery is still 18%
final pagoda
I believe they had two conflicting design decision: a class made for who likes high apm fast pace gameplay, and overall design choice of simplifying the game
fair ore
Can’t complain tho the autos do good damage
teal nebula
Haste probably has something to do with it. I rushed for iLvl over stats, because I had a quota to meet to get into the raid, and I was sitting at... I dunno, 15%?
final pagoda
Haste probably has something to do with it. I rushed for iLvl over stats, becaus...
post logs if you want a feedback
wintry solar
I got as low as 16% haste because I prioritized haste over ilvl lol
final pagoda
I can bet 90% confidence there are issues with your rotation
wintry solar
While leveling*
wintry solar
I believe they had two conflicting design decision: a class made for who likes h...
I think it's a good medium ground for people that didn't play tww
Or care for it
wintry solar
Perhaps
final pagoda
I still cant understand why so many ppl are playing sub
(relatively so many)
and if u filter for 95th percentile...
elfin mural
and if u filter for 95th percentile...
10x more Sub then Outlaw or Assa
sadly outlaw is too inconsistent / too much RNG with jackpot
midnight robin
final pagoda
ye and does way more dmg
not sure about this
if u filter for 95th percentile across all bosses, outlaw is higher
final pagoda
and if u filter for 95th percentile...
^this
olive marten
its heroic week and people know sub will be bis for mythic prog
teal nebula
Anything specific in logs, or just the page itself?
final pagoda
Anything specific in logs, or just the page itself?
just ur log that u want to review, where u think u did great but parsed very bad
elfin mural
its heroic week and people know sub will be bis for mythic prog
- none are 4p rn next week will be more data
final pagoda
yep technically the 4p will be a huge boost for sub
teal nebula
I'm trying to figure out if there's a way I can set up something close to those audio cues I had before, because that's a big part, I'd think. There have been more than a few times I went "Oh shit, how long have I not had Blade Flurry up?"
final pagoda
I'm trying to figure out if there's a way I can set up something close to those ...
practice
teal nebula
I'll go with the Lightblinded Vanguard. Council fight, I feel like I should have done better on it, but I'll also give the additional context of me having been in Single Target throughout. Ended up parsing a 44, at 50K DPS.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wKL4RTCJF9ah2dnf?fight=29&type=damage-done
final pagoda
there are a lot of fundamental issues with ur rotation
like u use preparation only 1:52 in the fight
ur bf uptime is low
teal nebula
I'm trying to wrap my head around Preparation. I thought it was meant to be a "You can keep this in your pocket to get the Adrenaline Rush damage buff for burst", and the Blade Flurry part, definitely feeling that.
final pagoda
or optimization in positioning like u never used grappling hook once in the fight, while on that one it can be huge time saving
teal nebula
Seeing all of these mechanics for the first time, and now having to do a mental countdown from ten seconds every time I hit Blade Flurry, it's... whew.
final pagoda
I'm trying to wrap my head around Preparation. I thought it was meant to be a "Y...
well but u cant complain about outlaw damage if the way you use a 5min is how you "think" it was meant to be
teal nebula
I used to have it set up to where I'd get a little water droplet sound in my ear when Blade Flurry was about to expire.
That's why I'm here, asking for advice. Something about it feels wrong to me, and I'm asking people for more information about it, so I can properly adjust.
final pagoda
a 95-97 parse on that fight with a similiar gear is around 80k damage, that would have been top 5 in that kill of your guild, and you would have beaten 3 frost mage which is a "meta" spec
all of this to say that if we are talking about normal/heroic, just play what you like but learn it very well
lucid sparrow
The change to ace up the sleeve is a nerf no??
final pagoda
I used to have it set up to where I'd get a little water droplet sound in my ear...
u just need to read the guides in the faq, go in front of a dummy, and practice for 1hr
in my opinion
teal nebula
And I'm taking this time in Normal/Heroic to get back to where I was, before, because I'll be going right back into Mythic raid in a matter of time.
That starts with me trying to figure out which parts I'm doing wrong.
silk stirrup
I still cant understand why so many ppl are playing sub
It's fun (?)
Not everyone swaps specs every 3 secs based on performance
silk stirrup
Fun is subjective I guess
cobalt sail
What are the best trinkets rn with all those nerfs? I'm kinda lost
final pagoda
That starts with me trying to figure out which parts I'm doing wrong.
read the faq very well, go in the dummy and practice
past falcon
I used to have it set up to where I'd get a little water droplet sound in my ear...
I feel you on this, I had to like, mentally rely on deft maneuvers as how I framed slamming blade flurry all the time - which we did in TWW anyway for combo points bc of deft, that’s not new but now it’s even more important ig. obvi u may not be always talented into deft in a fight where u do need to use blade flurry but it’s helped w my muscle memory as i get used to new outlaw
final pagoda
and trust me it will feel better
rancid silo
On Paladins N think I did 105k
final pagoda
I found a random log that did 97 parse with 80k
@rancid silo u had ST or cleave talents?
rancid silo
cleave
teal nebula
I mentioned it earlier, I had just grabbed the Raid build from WoWHead, because there wasn't a distinction between ST and Cleave for raids.
I could swear WoWHead used to have different builds for ST and Cleave in raids.
cinder relic
I still cant understand why so many ppl are playing sub
Its been the best spec for like 2ish years
ppl just default to it
gleaming reef
Ace Up Your Sleeve has been updated – Between the Eyes has a 3%/6% chance (was 5%) per combo point spent to grant 4 (was 2/4) combo points and reset its own cooldown.
did we just get nerfed?
rancid silo
Yesnt
gleaming reef
now we need to dig out 1 talent pt to put 1 more pt in Ace Up Your Sleeve
That's wild
gleaming reef
Really?
gleaming reef
my CP refund lags
I end up pressing a SS in between before I see my wangbar fill up
final pagoda
my CP refund lags
it is based on mob distance if u refer to gravedigger
plucky wasp
Dito. It was a nightmare in yesterdays raid. Easily 10 times that it happened. I guess server lag? Raid was full with 30 players
cinder relic
did we just get nerfed?
Probably not no
gleaming reef
Dito. It was a nightmare in yesterdays raid. Easily 10 times that it happened. I...
Me too I keep getting it.
final pagoda
ppl good people stay outlaw so we keep beating other specs when filtering to 95th percentile
jolly geyser
Me too I keep getting it.
same
silk dirge
static crescent
Does this ARCUI allow better customization of seeing opportunity procs and RTB stuff or is it visually the same?
Using the default wow one, but noticing tracking some of the stuff is annoying and cant make individual icons that much different
empty spear
What point do we take to get a 2nd on Ace Up Your Sleeve ?
lilac lion
Maybe Preparation?
fair ore
I don’t have a problem getting rid of prep if the reset is noticeable
balmy topaz
I mean prep sucks so press
pliant wave
Am I the only one who misses Killing Spree from The War Within Season 2?
balmy topaz
But the value you get from the 1st point to the 2nd is out of. Wack
I don’t know maybe I’m wrong
balmy topaz
Am I the only one who misses Killing Spree from The War Within Season 2?
No one is on that level
I’d love to not take prep tho
teal nebula
We will never again know the thrill of popping Killing Spree and promptly stepping on a landmine that wipes our entire raid.
fair ore
I mean what it’s 21% to 42% no?
teal nebula
During Mythic Silken Court prog, I was told to either take Killing Spree off of my bars entirely, or sit on the bench. Fun times.
fathom bramble
Does this ARCUI allow better customization of seeing opportunity procs and RTB s...
arcui is kind of complicated and annoying to customize but it can do a lot for displaying a buff with stacks
balmy topaz
@fathom bramble what you think with the ace change
teal nebula
But it was super fun to have a "nuke the raid" button during Sprocketmonger.
fair ore
it really needs to go to 5/6 refund though
Agreed
balmy topaz
I agree idk if 2nd point is worth
fathom bramble
it is
fair ore
3 is just harsh
balmy topaz
Over prep?
normal aurora
I had a big issue with taking only 1 point in ace.. i'm glad they are making this change
fathom bramble
I think this is what Zac had it as when he ran it
but we have a few options for bad talents to move around to get 2 ace when they buff it
fathom bramble
you lose HH and find an opening to get 1 more rank of dispatcher, sleight, and a 2nd ace point
obviously not guaranteed to be the final talents we run
balmy topaz
That’s alright tbf
fathom bramble
but it is just a few badish talents moved around to get ace
fathom bramble
months?
balmy topaz
Ohh wtf
balmy topaz
Ye I just read
fathom bramble
8 weeks something like that
lime lake
If the voidforge thingy opens up at .5 then id guess 5 weeks
Based on the bar above the dude
balmy topaz
Idk why they wait
fair ore
Right
balmy topaz
For .5
lime lake
They want you to really want aoe blind back
You need to know what you lost
So you appreciate what you have
fathom bramble
yeah idk they deleted aoe blind in a hotfix
you would think they could just undo that so we have it for season start
fathom bramble
gravedigger is also just mega delayed on some of the bosses
since the boss is so big the projectile takes forever to hit
balmy topaz
Yea
But that’s predictable cp gain
So it’s not as bad
But yeah waiting for .5 for talent change
fathom bramble
I hope we see just a little nudge to each of the new things
except aoe blind that's fine
Ace goes to 5 or 6
the new smoke bomb thing is now just visual and not actually a rune of power mechanic
New crimson vial talent is just simply stronger
frank finch
stiff hawk
tiny onyx
What do you guys do when you're clearing trash with your guild but you aint tryna spend your teas
I feel like i needa sandbag on helping to clear trash because i dont want to go into the boss pull with 0-1 teas
so the only other option is maybe being at 2 teas and taking it easy with using energy
crystal canopy
What do you guys do when you're clearing trash with your guild but you aint tryn...
have a talent loadout without tea (or play sub or something for trash) and then switch before the boss
fathom bramble
you could talent out of tea
tiny onyx
i was thinking about that
glass anvil
hey guys, do we want 20% or 25% haste? ive seen both floathing around
tiny onyx
hey guys, do we want 20% or 25% haste? ive seen both floathing around
I think its at least 20% with gear and 25% with buffs - but ideally being at 25%
cinder relic
anywhere between 20 and 25 is fine
jolly geyser
Feels good to craft your own armor, I bothered this exp
balmy topaz
anywhere between 20 and 25 is fine
Guy, have you got any suggestions to reduce CP lag with 30 ppl in the raid
gleaming reef
Guy, have you got any suggestions to reduce CP lag with 30 ppl in the raid
I think the CP lag is like they said from Gravedigger it takes time for projectile speed to refund the CP
fathom bramble
If it’s opp lag there is nothing you can do
balmy topaz
Maybe it is just that and I'm not paying attention to my stacks
fathom bramble
It just does that
glass anvil
I think its at least 20% with gear and 25% with buffs - but ideally being at 25%
i'm at 22 right now
daring yoke
I think the CP lag is like they said from Gravedigger it takes time for projecti...
Wait what do u mean by projectile speed?
fiery timber
so if GD had 6 or more stacks
Just saw deepshades ui yesterday and his demonic core glowed like a wa
fathom bramble
Bte is a projectile now and gravedigger refunds on impact
balmy topaz
Wait what do u mean by projectile speed?
The CP's don't reset until the bullet hits the target
Bit like hotstreak on fire mage
fathom bramble
Larger bosses and/or distance from the enemy adds more travel time
inland acorn
So that's why sometimes I feel like
I'm sending BtE
get PS off
And see refund happening after
lmao
fathom bramble
I recommend tracking gravedigger
daring yoke
The CP's don't reset until the bullet hits the target
Ah wtfff omg
fathom bramble
Mostly for these giant bosses and any ranged bte shots you do
balmy topaz
I track it but I want it to glow at 6
inland acorn
He just explained
glass anvil
oh like that
fathom bramble
It’s hard to simply react to it when it is mega delayed on that fight
glass anvil
fair fair
inland acorn
Ye, I did send some PS with opp, because the refund was mega delayed
same with double dragon bosses
inland acorn
aren't we all
daring yoke
Mostly for these giant bosses and any ranged bte shots you do
This explains it. Fucking annoying 😭
inland acorn
for playing outlaw
glass anvil
#JustGiveUsMoreEnergy
inland acorn
Nothing makes me feel better than pulling this rotation
And see myself at #13 spot in meters
While warlock is practically doubling my dps
fathom bramble
As is tradition
glass anvil
just go full pad on adds and you'll be fine kekw
inland acorn
That's the neat part
I already am
All 3 specs are just undercooked
Though sub gets kinda better with 4set i guess
cinder relic
These fights are not good for sub
Other than probs alleria
I feel sin will be better on that fight tho overall
For all the talk sub gets of being fundamentally good, I think this raid more than most is very not good for sub
It still has its fights but a lot of these fitghts are just not ideal
inland acorn
is it due to cds not aligning for sub or ?
cinder relic
Weak low target cleave, awkward lineups, not a lot of amps to abuse
glass anvil
Man I dislike the other specs
cinder relic
Dont play em!
glass anvil
the energy issues are just Insanse
inland acorn
Ngl after getting 25% haste energy seems mostly fine
glass anvil
I love logging a 70 and then seeing there being 5 other parses B-)
cinder relic
who cares about population
wintry solar
Rerollers
inland acorn
I think my biggest issue with spec rn is just Ace being turbo weak
And prep being on gcd is a crime
wintry solar
Is it? It's one global every 4 minutes
rotund zodiac
lilac lion
Ngl after getting 25% haste energy seems mostly fine
I dont have any energy probs since around 22% now i'm on 26% and its Totaly fine
Now i get rid of Mastery and go into Krit/versa
runic parrot
is it AR RTB before pull in raid? or after timer
inland acorn
After
blissful idol
is it AR RTB before pull in raid? or after timer
Think it’s ar dispatch tho
somber trail
can you macro AR and RtB together, along with KIR?
midnight ridge
i start with blade rush into ar rtb
hardy wigeon
Fuck me ST sucks dick when you don’t have enough haste
tired obsidian
Hey what kind of dps should a 235io be pushing out in mythic 0s on average?
balmy topaz
@vivid vessel Can you move your ability tracker 
inland acorn
Think it’s ar dispatch tho
As per FAQ:
In the raid your opener will tend to be:
AR > RTB > KiR > BR > Dispatch > build to BtE
Is it even a buff ?
You still will need to build to 6 cps no ? And the chance for ace is even smaller
unless you put 2 points which idk
inland acorn
but how is it nicer tho
You still need to press builder
Nothing really changes no ?
balmy topaz
We'd take something like this
How would you need to press a generator?
It would take you to 6
balmy topaz
It should take you to 6
With ruthless
Cus this is what it was before right
And even then I think
Due to CP wastage
the sim would want you to finish on 5
inland acorn
before you ended at 5
balmy topaz
If it was the case
balmy topaz
I honestly can't remember I didn't really play in season 3
unkempt dew
Any good outlaw changes with upcoming PTR?
normal forge
they should make it 5% / 8 % instead of 3% / 6%, and make it 5 cps, thats it, gg
inland acorn
ye i feel like it wont change anything and we still need to build after reset
unkempt dew
Yeah i dont like that
inland acorn
Maybe sims will show different and it might be fine to finish after reset, but i have my doubts idk 
stone frost
Does raidbots have stat weights anywhere? I don't see em
inland acorn
it has, but you shouldn't really use it
stone frost
Oh reaarrrryyy
inland acorn
top gear will be way better
stone frost
I thought we get ~19 haste and go full crit?
inland acorn
20-25, into full crit till ~40%
inland acorn
Yeah, you're not hitting both of those anytime soon i feel
stone frost
I'm at 24% haste atm but only 22% crit lol
inland acorn
You can defo hit haste breakpoint, but you won't have much budget to get crit to 40%
stone frost
Not even CLOSE to 40
inland acorn
at least not right now
haughty wigeon
Just make it 6 cp
Make ks do more prio damage
Ar does more damage for haste %
gg
ionic citrus
Make ks do more prio damage
You asking for ks to be back?hello...let's ban this one please?
haughty wigeon
Ks is cool
wintry solar
Give it a better animation and I'd be on board
haughty wigeon
Cringe answer
stone frost
Or just make KS a default outlaw spell ;D
wintry solar
It's nothing like that
wintry solar
It's a slideshow at best
stone frost
Yeah def not as cool but still very similar
silk stirrup
With the 12.0.5 change we still putting a single point to ace up your sleeve?
stone frost
If I'm putting up a public crafting order with all gold mats, is the quality really dependent on the crafter? I'm using all gold mats but it's not guaranteed to be top quality?
Tryina make those boots with the embellishment but I'm afraid someone will make it bronze quality cuz I don't understand the crafting order system well >_<
crystal canopy
If I'm putting up a public crafting order with all gold mats, is the quality rea...
it's not guaranteed no
if you want a throwaway craft, use public orders
if you want to specify a max rank craft, you'll have to look in trade chat for a crafter
(or a guildie)
crystal canopy
no especially this early on, everyone will try to snipe orders just for their own levels/profession knowledge
stone frost
Yeah that makes sense
I have the "finish 3 crafting orders" quest on my blacksmith pala but I don't even know how to take em lol
crystal canopy
if you go to the crafting table for your profession
there should be a tab at the top with "work orders" or something along those lines
there orders from npc's that you get as well, they provide you with profession knowledge and count towards the quest
I'd take a screenshot but apparently my workplace doesn't allow me to open wow
tender breach
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wintry solar
There's someone somewhere out there that believes this to be the case
I must speak with them
true dust
Does outlaw need buffs? I feel like my dps is alright
winter cave
Does outlaw need buffs? I feel like my dps is alright
looking at current stats for hc raid at high percentiles, yes
but all rogues spec do need one
normal forge
Does outlaw need buffs? I feel like my dps is alright
considering current data from warcraft logs I would say we need aprox. 8% buff overall
mighty pivot
inland acorn
normal forge
i refuse to watch this guy
mighty pivot
then don't 
untold loom
can someone explain dispatch in opener over bte? Is it literally just to ramp a few stacks of zero in?
glass mortar
untold loom
so if snd is rolling opener swaps back to bte prio I suppose
mighty pivot
yes
which is why you generally don't need that in m+ since you can snd in the bubble and then maintain snd forever
placid ocean
which is why you generally don't need that in m+ since you can snd in the bubble...
AR -> SnD before the key is activated?
mighty pivot
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
- Use
Adrenaline Rush to activate 
Loaded Dice. - As Trickster, use
KS to activate 
Disorienting Strikes. - Do NOT use
RTB before the key, you will lose it. - Use
SND during the bubble once the key starts.
soft abyss
Yesterday I tried outlaw in raid but i parsed like 30% but i have no weapon and no enchants/gems and I want to see if my rotation is bad (for sure there are mistakes) or if these things missing are a huge part of my lost dmg. Anyone/Anything can help ?
random cosmos
Hi guys! Any chance for news avout which spec is better on m+? Im currently off the raids and im doin only m+. Althought i really sont onow ehich spec i need to be competitive on this expansion yet.
timid portal
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
dim widget
Hi guys! Any chance for news avout which spec is better on m+? Im currently off ...
To be competitive for giga turbo high rank pushing? Other class
Everything else? The one you enjoy the most/perform personally best at
fair ore
https://tenor.com/view/overwatch-potg-overwatch-potg-reaper-reaper-potg-gif-1234...
They should just rip the animation from OW and give it to KS 😂
I do like that spell a lot
Reminds me of Mesa from warframe as well
thorn parrot
Thank zenithar its fedas fellas. Let’s flip some coins today
mystic mulch
hey im new to wow and I started with outlaw (bad idea ik😂) and the AA are doing a lot of dps with this spec, do u have some tips to optimize this dps ?
random cosmos
To be competitive for giga turbo high rank pushing? Other class
Everything else?...
I know about the other class thing, although rogue was not that bad on previous expansion. But the difference between of 3 specs was obvious. Thats whyy im asking
soft abyss
the tuning will keep happening for the next month and if you want to do serious m+ pushing nothing matters until 12.0.7
outlaw seems the best m+ for now but we don't have any data yet
mystic berry
buffs today fellow laws
jolly geyser
copium
keen belfry
Yesterday I tried outlaw in raid but i parsed like 30% but i have no weapon and ...
Logs only show egregious errors for law; if you wanna truly improve you need a vod
mystic berry
Yesterday I tried outlaw in raid but i parsed like 30% but i have no weapon and ...
I topped meters on imperator and salzahaar but my guild is nothing to write about, so I guess thats the secret
soft abyss
Yeah i dont really care about parses and dps. I just started playing outlaw and sub like 10days ago with midnight. And i like being able to multi-spec. I just want to see if I am doing egregious errors cause for sure i am missing like 20k dps from enchants and gems and weapon
mystic berry
I would say that law doesnt click until 20% haste and a bit of muscle memory
but yeah, logging outlaw is a mess
It doesnt keep track of combo points spent iirc
or gained
ionic citrus
Guys, considering the scenario:
-BTE is out of CD so it's priority
-I have 5 CP
-I have Opportunity 6 Stacks
Whats the best approach here:
1)
- PS wasting a lot of CPS
- BTE 7 CPS
- SS risking waste CPS and Opp stacks
- BTE 7 CPS
- Dispatch 5 CP
- PS to build for a BTE without waste
- BTE >= 6 CPS
- BTE 5 CP not ideal but avoiding waste
mystic berry
Guys, considering the scenario:
-BTE is out of CD so it's priority
-I have 5 CP
...
ps, bte
ionic citrus
So 2 CPS guaranteed waste everytime this happens.
mystic berry
yeah but if you proc ss you will be wasting opp and like, 2-3cp
its not worth to try to not proc opp
upper hawk
if you ss as fb and you proc, you waste 3cp on the ss and 3 opportunity stacks
worse than the guaranteed 2 cp loss
ionic citrus
yeah
my ideal choice here would be 5.
4....
BTE 5 CP
In my delusional brain ofc.
upper hawk
i think there's some talent that makes bte sub 6 bad
twin steeple
@ionic citrus u run fatebound or trickster?
ionic citrus
fb
twin steeple
fb dispatches at 5+
ionic citrus
It happens
twin steeple
ps bte then in your case
mystic berry
Not the worst sensation we can have in outlaw, ar and snd still beats it for top trash feeling
twin steeple
your other alternative is ss that gets 5 combo points with proc
you are not sending bte at 5
ionic citrus
Is it to bad to summon solo here for this particular matter?
twin steeple
your question is covered in rotation
why asking it here
not like edge case or smth
ionic citrus
Im discussing only
Im pushing for the 100%. Every 1% matters.
The PS 5 CP sounded bad ... thats it.
mystic berry
It is what it is
twin steeple
lesser evil from 3
ionic citrus
I was wondering if maybe with enouth zero in and gravedigger this would change this particular scenario.
But ok! My doubt is gone.
turbid wren
I actually asked this exact question a week ago or so, and Solo responded. As FB you do what other friends recommended and send ps and bte ☺️
ionic citrus
Im literally not sleeping over outlaw for the past month.
I'm obcecated with the spec.
upper hawk
that scenario though shouldn't really happen that often outside of when you're stuck in level 1 rtb
mystic berry
I'm obcecated with the spec.
yeah I can relate
turbid wren
Yup, especially if you follow the rule of SSing on 1cp
ionic citrus
I do ofc.
winter cave
SS on 1cp is good though sometime in the heat of the moment it's not that bad either
to use opp procs
it's just around 1%
ionic citrus
that fkn 1% that is missing.
winter cave
From the bit of raiding I did the biggest driver of dmg with a good rotation seem to be RtB proc variance
and also how lucky we are with how adds are grouped
upper hawk
if i open with a two roll, i call for wipe
winter cave
also is it me or is the raid actually quite decent on Outlaw for once
ionic citrus
Absolutely decent.
winter cave
the only frustrating part so far has been the crown intermission
just started HC and did the first 3 boss it was mostly fine
but ofc we kill when I get shit rolls
ionic citrus
I gotta tell you man... don't think of rolls.
Just rotate like its the 99% try everytime.
near holly
The raid feels fine like it finally feels like it should be a good outlaw tier. But tuning is not lol.
winter cave
still gotta think a bit
cause sometimes especially if running prep
you can fish a tiny bit
fair ore
I mean the rotation feels so good that I look at RtB as an addition
winter cave
for at least triple threat
ionic citrus
Imma go eat. Thx for the quick reply.
ionic citrus
that sounded wrong....
winter cave
and that feels gucci
ionic citrus
LMAO.
mystic berry
yeah I'm at 23% haste 34% crit
34% crit god, post your gear m8
keen belfry
Unless I’m missing any scenarios in my head, if you’re truly pushing for the 1% you shouldn’t ask what to do when at 5cp 6opp stacks and BTE off cd you should not get to that scenario instead
winter cave
the haste is with flask atm
winter cave
Unless I’m missing any scenarios in my head, if you’re truly pushing for the 1% ...
eh it does happen tbh
keen belfry
What causes it
If you SS at 1 you get to 6
If you ps at 1 you get to 5 but then aren’t at 6opp stacks
winter cave
yeah true, I'm not always optimal when learning the fights
especially later in the evening as well
full raid on outlaw can be exhausting so.
keen belfry
Ye my point is I think if you play optimally that scenario won’t happen
But I guess it could with BF? But that’s niche and just whatever
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> Can you move your ability tracker <:garf:11827032923132559...
Sure cuh
mystic berry
But I guess it could with BF? But that’s niche and just whatever
If I ps at 6 charges and 1 cp, I find myself there, but im pretty sure im fucking up
coarse parcel
how is outlaw?
mystic berry
how is outlaw?
kinda broad question m8, its average
You will sweat for the damage a mage can pull while watching a youtube video
patent mirage
someone pull out the mr bean playing frost mage video
near holly
You will almost never do the damage a mage can do in raid.
grim spear
How is this necklace? The coin also deals Shadow damage, right?
keen belfry
If I ps at 6 charges and 1 cp, I find myself there, but im pretty sure im fuckin...
I’m unsure this makes sense in my head
near holly
I’m unsure this makes sense in my head
It doesn’t lol.
placid ocean
You will almost never do the damage a mage can do in raid.
Man, our mage must be buns then
keen belfry
You’d end up at 5 combo points and 3 stacks which isn’t his scenario
near holly
Ya I read it too I think he misunderstood or something.
mystic berry
You’d end up at 5 combo points and 3 stacks which isn’t his scenario
not his scenario yeah, just describing a personal 5cp scenario with a possible bte
keen belfry
Banger reply, reply about a specific scenario then say you weren’t talking about it
Kinda goes hard
craggy quiver
Hope we get something this tuning pass would be nice
thick vigil
Wangbar
craggy quiver
keen belfry
Hope we get something this tuning pass would be nice
We will lose BF %
near holly
Man, our mage must be buns then
On heroic alleria prog. If I triple jackpot roll in p1 I’m like 50k behind warlocks mages and devourers. Melee struggles.
craggy quiver
We will lose BF %
Nice
mystic berry
idk why you rustled by my reply tho
near holly
Ya tuning will be impossible. Idk how they are going to fix it.
keen belfry
!timeout morririra
craggy quiver
Are mm just cracked or something lol
placid ocean
On heroic alleria prog. If I triple jackpot roll in p1 I’m like 50k behind warlo...
Oh I know. It's a massive feelsbad. Granted, our top dps is a ret pally (not that this is surprising)
craggy quiver
Both mm in my raid are doing so much dmg
craggy quiver
You would think if a fight is 8 mins long we would end up ok
strong cargo
On heroic alleria prog. If I triple jackpot roll in p1 I’m like 50k behind warlo...
The game is like this. Sometimes melee shines sometimes specific classes, the diversity makes it fun, otherwise just do a single class game 🙂
keen belfry
Melee aren’t designed to do dmg on aleria
It’s super spread cleave
If you look at public normal logs I think the top 10 specs are all ranged
near holly
Ya our mm parsed a 66 at 125k dps on pally fight number 1 on meters. I was number 20 on meters parsing 75 and 80k dps.
strong cargo
If you are having a bad time watching other classes shine, just compare yourself to better players of your class instead 🙂 that's the best you can do
sterile wadi
@vivid vessel what plater/platynator profile are you using. I like how big the name gets when they are casting because of the additional icon
mystic berry
If you are having a bad time watching other classes shine, just compare yourself...
this is why I watch zac
placid ocean
My favorite part about the ranged meta is how ranged always stand out in Narnia, so when blinding light happens melee have to sprint half way across the arena to help break the shield
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> what plater/platynator profile are you using. I like how b...
It's mine, can share it
sterile wadi
It it colored by casters and powerful mobs in dungeons? I mostly do m+, if not I'll figure out how to make it happen
dim widget
I know about the other class thing, although rogue was not that bad on previous ...
There is no crazy difference between rogue specs for m+ rn iirc
vivid vessel
It it colored by casters and powerful mobs in dungeons? I mostly do m+, if not I...
Yes but you can't do that accurately anymore
placid ocean
It's moreso their damage profiles
dim widget
If you wanna play any of them it's mostly dependant on your setup, outlaw kinda needs the phys buffs
The other specs can live without
sterile wadi
Sure sure, I'm just used to jundies this season already
even though it's not as accurate
I think the conditional is just whether the mob has mana > 0, but still
vivid vessel
Ye
crisp elm
is haste>crit=vers? or crit just way better since less vers start of season?
vivid vessel
Crit better
mystic berry
Somebody posted the stat weights here sometime ago, does anyone have that table?
heavy shadow
What spec for bat boss? I figured it was more ST (prep, Kir) so went with that. However, bottom of meter. Best to go cleave spec and focus adds?
near holly
i mean they are going to vary greatly based on the stats you have already. haste falls off drastically at a certain point.
sterile wadi
You think they'll post changes today? They did last friday right?
dim widget
Somebody posted the stat weights here sometime ago, does anyone have that table?
Around 25 haste and 40 crit then they start falling
Mast and vers are not bad
If in doubt sim
Agi often beats any of them
heavy shadow
Are there any outlaw guides with a pointer on which spec to use per boss?
clever wasp
Are there any outlaw guides with a pointer on which spec to use per boss?
Sub everywhere
heavy shadow
I mean, should be obvious, but some of them are kinda ST (with adds)
heavy shadow
Sub everywhere <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
Oh, is that the answer then?
clever wasp
Lowkey, all rogue specs are kinda equally shit tho
heavy shadow
I tried HC last night and was very much trialing the tank 🙁
zenith sparrow
What crests do outlaw use to craft with this week?
clever wasp
But paladins for example i mega doubt sub wins there
clever wasp
What crests do outlaw use to craft with this week?
No crests
clever wasp
Only mythic crests on craft
clever wasp
Either craft with just spark, or wait to mythic
clever wasp
and I assume we make the dagger
!guide
ornate heathBOT
Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue
inland acorn
and I assume we make the dagger
If you're planning to multispec otherwise sword/mace/axe for mh
zenith sparrow
If you're planning to multispec otherwise sword/mace/axe for mh
idk is multispec worth it? Sub buffs good enough?
or ig is outlaw good enough lol
It seems okay
inland acorn
All 3 rogue specs are in trenches rn
Sub does get stronger than other specs with set though
clever wasp
Its like, rn dosnt matter what spec u really play its all dooky
zenith sparrow
rip
inland acorn
Ye we're all in trenches
zenith sparrow
so its just a gamble on what to invest in
clever wasp
Outlaw has its upsides, also its downsides and so does sub and assa
unique fulcrum
Pog CHampion
sterile wadi
Remember how much shit people were talking about Arms warrior? All three specs are worse than arms lol
clever wasp
Remember how much shit people were talking about Arms warrior? All three specs a...
All 3 specs are the worst in the game lol, the only ones below us are the ones noone plays like bm
inland acorn
Remember how much shit people were talking about Arms warrior? All three specs a...
remember when uhdk was bottom dps for 24h?
And got hotfix 20% buff
sterile wadi
Lol
inland acorn
sterile wadi
GOOD FEELINGS ONLY @inland acorn
fossil lintel
blade flurry aura nerf 5%
4% buff in ST, -5% BF damage to compensate
sterile wadi
I think only buff
inland acorn
I felt good in raid yesterday
sterile wadi
I think we get a decent single target buff
hollow creek
inland acorn
And then looked at meters
hollow creek
Is this a buff or nerf dont get it
inland acorn
And demo casually doubling my dps
fossil lintel
That is next patch
inland acorn
it's a buff, but not amazing
hollow creek
Does it gonna matter
fossil lintel
Did we get confirmation it's actually a buff?
sterile wadi
I mean its a 1% change higher to proc 4 combo
inland acorn
sterile wadi
Yah, true
inland acorn
4 cps is shit tho
because you land at 5
which unless rule changes
we still build
lmao
fossil lintel
Right, but at the cost of 1 talent point
And currently going from 2 to 4 cps isn't worth the talent point, will going to 6% be worth it?
inland acorn
maybe
hollow creek
”Buff”
fossil lintel
It will probably be used, but I think it'll take our overall DPS down a bit
inland acorn
And currently going from 2 to 4 cps isn't worth the talent point, will going to ...
I mean, i feel like it will be actually mandatory
fossil lintel
Yes, ace chance is really good
inland acorn
Because 1 point will be 3% which will feel
Even more shit
It still feels like slap in the face
making ace 2 point talent
fossil lintel
The slap is making it 2 points and still requiring you to press a builder after
fossil lintel
But today it's probably a they forgot we exist angle
inland acorn
only today ?
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> what talents did u play on paladins
AOE talents
Can check zacrebleu or tomelvis
fossil lintel
No, for all the tuning passes they have done, but talking about today's tuning notes that we'll probably get
Should be out in 8-10 hours
inland acorn
also hotfixing blind to not be aoe
just to give it back to us in .5 patch
is like
literally laughing in our faces lmao
fossil lintel
We may get like a 2% buff or something in the last one 3 weeks from now
near holly
inc 15% ST buff with a 12% bladefurry nerf. netting us +9% in raid and -10% overall in keys just in time for mythic + week.
leaden sonnet
Can check zacrebleu or tomelvis
Zacrebleu 
keen belfry
gapped you guys twice btw
lucky procs bro dw
vivid vessel
<@101843879791177728>
@fathom bramble do you remember what i said last time regarding boss counting in all stats? i dont remember if it needed x number of parses per specs or not
fathom bramble
Total logged kills is all
vivid vessel
so should see the impact already i guess
proven ocean
gapped you guys twice btw
Wtf u played on zac’s acc too?
3rd player
Look his name
People are saying outlaw is too ez 
go get r1 then bozo’s
vivid vessel
People are saying outlaw is too ez <:ICANT:964717117071048774> go get r1 then bo...
i think i over estimated wow players
lol
i thought outlaw was piss easy now
but then
most people are still bad at it
is this a real trinket bro
:D
i think it oversim
ye bro
3% trinket for sure for sure
clever wasp
@vivid vesselthats a bugged trinket btw
vivid vessel
ye i can see that
clever wasp
its bugged for alot of specs for some reason, dosnt roc
vivid vessel
i feel scammed
vivid vessel
@fathom bramble
have you noticed
idk if that means rng or just there is less good outlaw players
75 % vs 95
placid hollow
I play Outlaw and Elemental - bad day at the office for me I guess
vivid vessel
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
clever wasp
rip chuck norris 
vivid vessel
or maybe it means sub is piss easy
and 50% bozos do the same damage as 95% ones
i think thats the narrative im gonna go with
rancid silo
idk i think sub is as easy as it will ever get
but people still dont understand what to do
vivid vessel
thats what i tought about outlaw aswell tho
but i mean objectively
ubs had 2 button so
how can you mess up
crisp elm
sub braindead
vivid vessel
i think outlaw has a lot of minmaxy rules on fatebound
but idk its knida all worht nothing so
rancid silo
i couldnt bring myself to play sub on paladins so i did outlaw
it felt better and im sure did more dmg
crisp elm
apm alone
placid hollow
i think outlaw has a lot of minmaxy rules on fatebound
If you could describe outlaw in a sentence so far what would that look like?
crisp elm
ol harder way higher barrier for entry
vivid vessel
If you could describe outlaw in a sentence so far what would that look like?
react to procs idkl?
to me outlaw is all about procs
i feel sad that our apex isnt a proc
and its delayed so it feels shit to react to
:D
vapid blaze
hows your thoughts on outlaw rn
gameplay wise zac
vivid vessel
but outlaw is all about reacint to cp rpocs, fth procs, ace procs
idk
its alright
i think if ace gave full cp it would feel almost perfect
i dont like maintaining bf on low target
vapid blaze
seen the new .5 changes? 😄
vivid vessel
and i still have the same energy droguht moments i had in tww
that i thought felt turbo shit
placid hollow
Yeah I would love to see full cp
vivid vessel
and idk why thats not fixed still
vapid blaze
you know off the top of your head how much you lose playing aoe raid talents vs st ones?
on st
placid hollow
Yeah i really feel the energy drought for sure but its early days we could change with all the gear yet to come
upper hawk
drought
vapid blaze
like 20% on fb still
craggy quiver
My parses are dog man usually I'm not that bad, maybe I'm too old for outlaw
vivid vessel
we wont go more haste tho
its just not worth
outlaw doesnt care that sometimes you have energy drought
placid hollow
Have you got four set Zac?
patent mirage
instead of a haste tax adr should give dmg % per haste
narrow pasture
ever run out of energy playing flickering steel cleave?
i didnt but couldve been good rtb rng
vivid vessel
Have you got four set Zac?
no i dont even have 2 set
but it does nothing for energy
vivid vessel
ever run out of energy playing flickering steel cleave?
of course
but also its not worth it to play that with enough haste
which again is kind of the issue
outlaw optimise for average energy
and then you have the low 10%
i dont want these to exist
it didnt in sl
narrow pasture
i constantly ran out of energy playing vers at 21% post-flask
switched to flickering and it was fine
but 3 boss sample so couldve been rtb influenced
vivid vessel
well you need more like 25 % tho
narrow pasture
yee unlucky gearing
doubt they touch energy in any way if we get any tuning
so i guess flickering stays mandatory
dry ermine
idk if that means rng or just there is less good outlaw players
i got title on outlaw last season but rerolled to lock cause of how shit rogue is rn
theres just no reason to play rogue atm to me
there are definitely a lot of rerollers for the people who care about doing well
fresh acorn
What’s the haste numeric (not %) value I should be aiming for
gaunt rover
crisp elm
980 im at 26%
sterile wadi
When yall sim for dungeons, what are yall doing? I'm doing 8 bosses 3 mins? I'm trying to get the best gear for m+
gaunt phoenix
Whatever wins for dslice should more or less win in keys
vivid vessel
when did blizzard start using private auras for litteraly every aura btw
sterile wadi
Oh so I should just pick dungeon slice
vivid vessel
used to be a time where private auras where only important auras
now you just have 3 perma dot private aura in the middle of your screen
i dont even know how im supposed to track debuffs in raid anymore
cuase we just have 2 bars of debuffs now for some reason
slim hare
zac
when you find your solution about debuff share it pliz
i'm running the vanilla strat
slim hare
looking at my character
proven ocean
ppl still bad
slim hare
its shit
vivid vessel
when you find your solution about debuff share it pliz
nah bro
proven ocean
especially assa zac
vivid vessel
vivid vessel
im used to tracking priovate aura in middle of the screen
cause it made sense back in the day
proven ocean
and rupture 3 times if pack is 9-11 mobs
proven ocean
u can rupture 4 times if its a pack of 12 and it'll last perfect rupture timing but
vivid vessel
with an aura in the middle of my scren on my char
proven ocean
ye
vivid vessel
ppl still bad
i know bro ..
proven ocean
and
only thing u do after rupturing
is fok envenom
nothing else
gapped everyone
for some reason
slim hare
the more i play with sub par computer
slim hare
the more i think computer performance has a huge impact on dps
gcd/spellqueue seems like its lagging
river maple
Is outlaw op this season
sterile wadi
THE BUFF IS COMING! I FEEL IT
smoky grotto
full cb on ace and it’s almost perfect