outlaw

[craggy barn]

damn

[silk dirge]

Outlaw gets grapple speed buff and assass gets 3% and we call it a day

[fathom bramble]

our tierset gets +1 charge and another 45% BR damage

[prisma lantern]

They might double subs nature damage too.

[tired lake]

is there that much of a difference between us and sub

[cinder relic]

Alot yes

[tired lake]

been having a debate and my buddy says its like 15% more dps just by pressing respec to sub

[cinder relic]

Genuinely backwards

15% increase going outlaw

Sub is so shit

[glass mortar]

thats a lil bit of a self report

but its ok

outlaw is a hard spec for people who havent played it still

[river wing]

ngl
over the last two years
it seems to me like it's not even shitposting or people being unfair like I thought initially
Blizz really fucking do have three class categories

1. the favourites who are never allowed to be bad (rets, DPS DKs, at least one mage spec per season, at least one hunter spec per season)
2. the middle ground (most other classes and specs)
3. the perpetually fucked (any two Rogue specs, one DPS Warr spec chosen at random, possibly BDK for some reason)

[glass mortar]

well blizzard does seem to care less when pure dps have specs rotting in the sewer if 1-2 of the other specs are good/really good

not necessarily the most unfair thing

idk about the rest of that tho

[vivid vessel]

keep in mind guys

sub get a 14% tier set next week still

dont get baited

its gonna be a 10% diff

big number !

[craggy barn]

they needa nerf dps dk and make bdk good

revert the ds nerfs

[mystic berry]

I do think they aim for "one good dps" spec in every class, it just so happens that it is glaring in dps only classes

[glass mortar]

yea

and i dont necessarily know its even unfair to design with that as the highest principle

obviously id like if they tuned all specs in a tighter range. its better when they do

but as a baseline making sure every class has at least 1 decent dps spec is pretty important imo

[mystic berry]

You just have to pray to god that it is the dps spec you enjoy

[copper radish]

can they hotfix in the last buffs they reverted for us pls

[mystic berry]

its not blizzard fault you picked the wrong class to play

should've picked one of the favoured ones

[inland acorn]

Only thing blizzard can hotfix is blade flurry nerf

[copper radish]

good thing im playing DH in the meantime lol

[mystic berry]

the middle child

when are the patch notes again?

I always forget

[glass mortar]

sometimes friday evenings for tuesdays

not always tho

[mystic berry]

ty

[azure snow]

should i craft weapon

[frail veldt]

Prob just means your buddy doesn't know how to play outlaw

Self report honestly

[mystic berry]

do you need the ilvl now?

[frail veldt]

If you aren't planning to play sub or assa then prob yes

[nova sinew]

rogue hotfix is you no longer have an aoe stop

unholy hotfix is 25% buff

[glass mortar]

oh god it was

[fluid iron]

@cinder relic sub buffs incoming

[mystic berry]

Oh yeah, true

[cinder relic]

u wish

[fluid iron]

you just dont know what i know

and thats okay

[nova sinew]

vagueposting king

[glass mortar]

did they at least remember to remind chatgpt that subs tier set is like 14% dps before it did the math

😠

[mystic berry]

tbbfh I dont expect further sub changes

[frail veldt]

No doubt

I'm still leaning towards assa getting the biggest buff

[jolly aspen]

this

[worldly zealot]

sub is just a cursed spec by design

if its good during heroic week due to burst/padding - it gets nerfed and is shit afterwards
if it is shit during heroic week - well, see you next patch

[mystic berry]

I would be willing to bet that

assa needs slightly more than law imo

[craggy barn]

rog nerf

[nova sinew]

every rogue spec needs a flat 15 and we chillin

[craggy barn]

its still on the meters cant have that

[nova sinew]

im not gonna be greedy like dk and ask for 25

[glass mortar]

i think an emergency 15% hotfix would hit the mark tbh

seems reasonable

[mystic berry]

I would be grateful with aura buffs with 0 witty nerfs on other damage profiles

[vague cape]

Idk about that, in this case I’d say sub is weaker in hc weak than normally bc good tierset

[mystic berry]

like "oh we will give you 10% aura buff, but nerf bf"

stay away with that shit

[worldly compass]

we buffed your singletarget by 5%! (your AoE is down 15% smile)

[vague cape]

I can’t see them nerfing sub st- biggest issue is the raid design tbh, the range of aoe sometimes just ain’t it

[worldly zealot]

imagine everyone gets 15 flat aura
then sub get his giga tier and gets a tier nerf next reset

[vague cape]

I’d be VERY surprised if they nerf sub

[mystic berry]

I would be glad to see any rogue doing well at this point lmao

atleast we would get some new players

[glass mortar]

i wouldnt but only because i very easily see them overbuff it to compensate for how bad its doing rn

and then u guys get ur tier set

and its more then they wanted because they forgor

[vague cape]

I mean I’m fairly sure the tierset sims aren’t news to blizzard

[glass mortar]

you'd think that

[vague cape]

These are literally industry leaders

[glass mortar]

but i seem to recall not to long ago when outlaw got nerfed herioc week despite us all knowning it was mid

then 2 weeks later they had to buff it

[vague cape]

They can’t be fully clueless

[glass mortar]

by far more then it was nerfed

id like u to explain that one to me

as a non clueless tuning

[mystic berry]

2 weeks? not one day?

[vague cape]

Ngl outlaw is a wierd one, idk who they’re tuning it for

[craggy barn]

dw u want 2 rogs for dragon boss for sure

[vague cape]

They’ve nerfed it while it wasn’t outstanding many times

[vivid vessel]

and outlaw buffs?

[fluid iron]

no

[vivid vessel]

why

[glass mortar]

or you know was it last season

or s2 tww

[vivid vessel]

sub has a 14% tier set coming

[glass mortar]

when bm was playing the wrong build ST because of a bug

[vivid vessel]

and its not even doing worse than the 2 other specs

[glass mortar]

then blizzard buffed them and fixed the bug

[vivid vessel]

why is it always sub ?

[glass mortar]

then they became the meta for like the whole seasons and were broken

[vivid vessel]

is the rogue dev

[fluid iron]

cuz its what i main

[mystic berry]

law is fine zac, this is law tier

[vivid vessel]

a sub main

[glass mortar]

idk this stuff happens all the time

[fluid iron]

obviously

[vivid vessel]

every tier

like

its getting annoying

im ngl

[glass mortar]

its silly to pretend they dont make mistakes with tuning

all the time

[vivid vessel]

cant go one tier

without progging

as sub

[glass mortar]

about things they should absolutely know on the back end

[fluid iron]

as god intended

[vivid vessel]

so stupid

[fluid iron]

the carpet will drop and zac learns that im the rogue dev

[mystic berry]

crime doesnt pay, this is why outlaw is rarely buffed

[vivid vessel]

the guy that does tuning for rogue is legit clueless

[vague cape]

Why would you opt into flat dps or execute / back loaded burst when you can have front loaded burst on a lower cd (rip nimble, idk if removing it is enough to stop sub winning)

[vivid vessel]

but why

do we buff sub

when its slightly behind

like this tier im legit

its not even behind xd?

i still dont know if i would play sub after tier

[fluid iron]

compared to other rogue specs nah

[vivid vessel]

prolly on last boss at the very least

like its just silly

[fluid iron]

compared to the rest of the classes

[vivid vessel]

yes

but

[fluid iron]

all 3 needs help

[vivid vessel]

its the same as the other 2 rogue specs

and it has a 14%

[fluid iron]

but sub needs the most cuz thats what i wanna play

[vivid vessel]

tier set

like

xdd????

[torpid fiber]

we can tell ur not the rogue dev bc u care about the class a lot

[cinder relic]

Holy W rage bait

[frail veldt]

you should see how insane the disparity is in pvp

[vivid vessel]

why is it always sub

[cinder relic]

U really got him bro

[vivid vessel]

i dont get it

[frail veldt]

and they are able to form complete sentences

[mystic berry]

aura buff inc guys, no need to stress

[vivid vessel]

if sub get buffs and outlaw doesnt

idk what to say

[crimson scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/rayman-absolutecinema-wow-amazing-gif-4262883547222144536

[vivid vessel]

most clueless dev

[random stirrup]

ragebait deployed

[vivid vessel]

every tier the same shit

[frail veldt]

cuz its the rogue spec

[fluid iron]

im willing it in to reality

manifesting as we speak

[vague cape]

Honestly

I’m actually fully down for an outlaw tier

We need it

[random stirrup]

as long as it's not assa im happy

[brisk spear]

ye no

fuck law in raid

[crimson scarab]

From ur mouth to the rogue devs ears

[vivid vessel]

?

havent played outlaw in tier

[mystic berry]

I had a dream today

[vivid vessel]

for legit 3 expac

can we stop

with sub

already

or

[fluid iron]

no

[frail veldt]

nope

[wintry solar]

No

[mystic berry]

That I saw, 15% aura buff for rogue

in my dreams

[wintry solar]

Blizz loves sub the most

[vague cape]

Why does this feel a lot like undermine release

Or manaforge release

[vivid vessel]

why does it feel like blizzard doesnt even know about their own tier set

[nova sinew]

its the same dogshit split cleave raid where ranged style on melee crazy style on every fight

[vivid vessel]

because the way i see it

they will do buffs

completly disregarding

tier sets

as they always do

sub gonna get its lil 5% aura buff

and a 14% tier set

and then its best spec in the game once again

[vague cape]

I wanna talk to whoever decided the OL and Sin tier

[fluid iron]

sub needs a 10% aura

ong

[craggy barn]

ong

[vivid vessel]

ye give that to outlaw buddy

[vague cape]

Like what about blade rush or garotte is so cool we’d make a tierset about it

[fluid iron]

no

[craggy barn]

sub is unga bunga spec it needs to do more dam

[cinder relic]

Yeah and if my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike

[fluid iron]

best i can do is 5% aura and 5% BF nerf

xD

[craggy barn]

20% aura and remove bf

[vivid vessel]

xd

i swear

if they do another

aura buff with - bf

i cannot

also everytime they do it

[craggy barn]

its gonna happen brother

[vivid vessel]

they do the wrong math

you cant do +5 aura

and -5 bf

[mystic berry]

brother, we need to be mentioned in the patch notes first, that is a victory already

[fluid meadow]

5=5

[vivid vessel]

thats nerfing bf by way more than its buffing it

[static crescent]

dont think they will touch outlaw, doing too well in heroic

its over

[vivid vessel]

[fluid iron]

real

sub is lower

buff sub

[nova sinew]

they just did this shit with nimble dog

[prisma lantern]

Idk blade flurry is op. That's why outlaw cleaves so hard on paladins.

[wintry solar]

New devs y'all, cut them some slack

[mystic berry]

All three rogues specs in a race to the bottom

[vivid vessel]

wait till we get last boss data in hc

[random stirrup]

ive heard this one before

[vivid vessel]

i know

[random stirrup]

the race to the first dimensius kill for outlaw

[vivid vessel]

becasuse its obvious

:D

[nova sinew]

not 1 melee in top 8 when liquid running their splits on it lol

[static crescent]

see, outlaw overperforming allready

[vivid vessel]

doesnt matter what you see in split

they prep every class

and specs

[random stirrup]

think about it this is how you get melee meta in keys

[vivid vessel]

you never know what is good

what will be bufffed

[terse fractal]

For real, I just want one spec to get turbo buffed. I'll play any of them and just want to get invited to high keys

[nova sinew]

in exiles split he is like 7th

[random stirrup]

they will overtune all the melee for raid and then they take over keys

[nova sinew]

on his 4pc char

14% buff huuuuuge

[random stirrup]

phys comp meta frfr

[static crescent]

i bet theres a twist, rogues get motw

boom, meta

[mystic berry]

unfortunately im locked in so hard outlaw this tier, nothing gives me dopamine after the pruning

I will sink with this ship

[craggy barn]

same probably

my rog is main alt now so i can kinda just do what i want

[wintry solar]

Imagine

[worldly shale]

what addon yall use for frames

[wintry solar]

I'd never jump ship when seas get rough

[craggy barn]

i didnt even jump sea, i literally just have to tank mythic raid now

[civic zephyr]

Can we just remove grappling hooks cd so we can be spiderman

[wintry solar]

Ah yeah that's diff

[fluid iron]

ill tip you over

[craggy barn]

we have very few experienced tank players in my guild

[fluid iron]

how bout dat

[wintry solar]

Nuh uh

[fluid iron]

i am the storm that is approaching

[craggy barn]

holy

[crimson scarab]

I think majority use MSUF

[wintry solar]

Only the strongest will survive

[craggy barn]

im still on unhalted

too lazy to switch

[wintry solar]

Y'all hurry up and give us more HC data, I'm trying to get pity points from my guild

[frail veldt]

to get pity people would have to care about outlaw

theyre just gona tell you to swap specs if outlaws performing bad

[static crescent]

tomorrow patch notes and we will all be happy

trust

[old gull]

A lot of people saying outlaw is bad haven’t even Q’d it yet

[daring yoke]

Our beloved Outlaw ways be lookin’ like a leaky dinghy in a storm right now — damage be lower than a sunken chest and luck drier than the captain’s biscuit. But mark me words… this be but a rough tide.
Hold fast to yer blades and don’t be abandonin’ ship just yet. The winds will turn, the dice will roll true again, and soon we’ll be plunderin’ the meters like the ruthless pirates we are.

[mystic berry]

we are cowboys now though

[river wing]

we're taking over this town then

[spring rapids]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lean mesa]

most of the ppl that calls a class/spec bad are like 3100io max

[static crescent]

when do you become certified in calling specs bad

[lean mesa]

what makes a spec bad?

[static crescent]

I wanna know if my opinion matters

[craggy barn]

have u played every spec

[static crescent]

no

[craggy barn]

then ur qualified

[worthy surge]

definitely dont need to play every spec to call it bad

[honest raven]

just added that to a /say macro ty ty

[static crescent]

idk, to me a pure dps specc with no utility should do quite a bit of damage to be considered good

[river wing]

well bringing nothing to the party and doing mediocre or worse damage even for a good player, I'd say that makes a spec bad

[glass mortar]

they are still playing the game tho so

i think ur wrong

only partially qualified

[craggy barn]

damn

u rite

[glass mortar]

now if they were posting in class discords despite not playing the game at all

[craggy barn]

have u ever posted on the wow forums

[glass mortar]

that person is the CEO of which specs r good

[old gull]

“No utility”

[craggy barn]

wow forum posters are more qualified than discord

[lean mesa]

"bringing nothing to the party"

[glass mortar]

🏄‍♂️ 🏄 🏄‍♀️

[astral granite]

Didnt they just buff dk unh?

lol

[static crescent]

wait what is utility, kidney shot and shroud?

[lean mesa]

isnt it?

[static crescent]

it is

[old gull]

Sorry I’m a moron I thought I was in PvP chat LOL

[lean mesa]

[glass mortar]

ur right we dont bring nothing, we bring stinky poo from popo

[river wing]

atm Shroud is basically nothing
and now not even an AoE hardstop for some stupid reason

[glass mortar]

outlaws group "utility" as it exists is nonexistant to garbage

[river wing]

legit the only thing that is there and still works
is atrophic/numbing

[static crescent]

but we got dmg reduction poison

[river wing]

which is...not terrible but hardly ever something people consider

and hardly carrying the day

[fathom bramble]

That’s just a raidbuff

[river wing]

ye

[fathom bramble]

Like everyone has one

[past falcon]

if i was building a team, id way rather take grip or beam or amz or any aoe cc wshatsoever over atrophic poison lmao

[fathom bramble]

And many are better than ours

[river wing]

pala gets a free atrophic

like legit free

[static crescent]

just make the dmg reduction 15%, and im cool with everything

[river wing]

dream on brotha

[fathom bramble]

Especially in keys where atro is even less favored

[frail veldt]

a single target 30s cd stun is effectively ignored in what people consider inviting to a group

[static crescent]

il fight with the bears in dps and get invited all day

[frail veldt]

shroud is occasionally considered depends entirely on the dungeon

but routes wont be built around shroud if rogue isnt good

cuz it wont be on peoples radar

also invis pots still exist

so

[past falcon]

blind didnt even work in half the mobs of like, workshop lol

[river wing]

workshop was like half heavy mobs tbh

[frail veldt]

it takes some heavy delusion to think rogue brings a lot of utility to the group

[river wing]

so no CC worked on those

[past falcon]

my tanks used to say they liked bringing outlaw bc it was tanky. kekw

[real mauve]

You guys think prep is fake news?

[static crescent]

back in shroud being unique it was kinda cool to see people spesificly looking for rogues

[worthy surge]

rogues are main characters everyone else is utility too bad we dont do main character dmg though

[glass mortar]

id say it takes some minor delusion to even think rogue is ever invited to groups for any of these "utilities" mentioned

the only one that i believe has ever coped an inv is shroud

and shrouds relevancy isnt even scattershot

its closer to nonexistant

i think 99% of my shrouds uses in the last 3 years have been fatfingers or getting someone who died past mobs

[river wing]

in all of TWW
the only reason I got invited was just damage, and Shroud in S2 for Theater lmao

[craggy barn]

shroud sux mind soothe better plus u get pi and stam

[frail veldt]

damage is 95% of the reason you bring a rogue to a group

maybe 99%

[glass mortar]

97%

the other 3% is atro

[frail veldt]

thats for raid

[glass mortar]

no thats a bad meme nobody even considers atro lets be real here

[frail veldt]

in m+ atro is ignored haha

[river wing]

so 96.4% actually

[glass mortar]

the DR raid buffs are nonexistant in m+

[frail veldt]

yeeep

[river wing]

ngl I tend to prefer Numbing for M+

[crimson scarab]

I’d say even a big percentage of the playerbase doesn’t even know that atro exists

[fathom bramble]

Yeah numbing is better in most keys

[frail veldt]

tru

[glass mortar]

is it

[fathom bramble]

But people are even less aware of that existing

[glass mortar]

i guess just for casters or

[astral granite]

Is it outlaw in a bad state rn?

[glass mortar]

a majority of mind numbings value in keys is just tank DR i feel like?

[static crescent]

You could literally leave the poison out completely and no1 would care even in the highest keys

[river wing]

well it also slows down the autos

[static crescent]

or notice

[glass mortar]

and its pretty rare tanks need additional DR

sure thats tank DR

[fathom bramble]

-15% tank damage taken from melees and casters

[river wing]

so it's tank DR in a way
plus more time to kick casters

[glass mortar]

cant remember the last time tank survivability was the limiting factor in keys

but casters i could see

[cinder relic]

If they have more HP they can spend more resources on damage rather than defense

[fathom bramble]

Tank could pull more then

[cinder relic]

Esp matters if Druid is meta

since they can spend on ironfur or other stuff

[vivid vessel]

if you go non meta tank

[river wing]

Rogue overall is kinda iffy
Outlaw is just middle of the pack if you're decent at it

[static crescent]

holy shit id love to see that sentence in a group "thank god we got a rogue, il add few packs into every pull"

[glass mortar]

yea true off meta tanks

[vivid vessel]

like the meta tank is always invincible

but

most other get pretty beat on

brew specially

[cinder relic]

Rogue is average rn

[vivid vessel]

:D

[static crescent]

Would also be a lovely consept, could pull more with a rogue in group and then the rogue is target capped and gets shat on even harder

[craggy quiver]

These fights are lasting 8mins

That dbl dragon fight is such a sponge atm lol

Also prep is not a fun button to press not a fan after playing in raid

[river wing]

broskis
are we back?

https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-12-0-5-ptr-development-notes-for-march-19th-class-changes-and-new-demon-380874

[craggy barn]

aoe blind will be back as well

[river wing]

ye

[vivid vessel]

is this fake

legit reads like fan fiction

no cap

[crimson scarab]

Nah

It’s not fake

[vivid vessel]

xdd?

[formal knot]

sorry they gave me access to the wowhead editor and i wrote random stuff

[fathom bramble]

Why still 4

[river wing]

real

[vivid vessel]

casue fuck you thats why

[river wing]

b/c they don't know we don't want to BtE at 5

[crimson scarab]

Ace going to be 1 node now tho?

[vivid vessel]

they read the part about needing it to scale in % chacne

so we get 2

and they didnt change the cp amount

:D

btw

4 cp ace

feels even worse

[river wing]

wait no
let me tell you
you'll say it's the stupidest fucking reason there could be
but basically

[vivid vessel]

than 2 cp ace

im just gonna say it

[formal knot]

true

[river wing]

if they made it 5+
it would have overcapped in a build that doesn't take both Deeper Stratagems

[glass mortar]

wait

they actually

[crimson scarab]

You’ll end up with 5 CPs right?

[glass mortar]

took my vial idea for leveling???

[river wing]

ye

[cinder relic]

aoe blind back

Vial talent

[gaunt phoenix]

aoe blind

[glass mortar]

thats literally the most nothing node in here but it still makes me happy

[vivid vessel]

ye and you neeed to build back up

[glass mortar]

just because ive been asking for it for years

[vivid vessel]

so its useless

[glass mortar]

[vivid vessel]

you just waste infinite cp

[glass mortar]

godbless

[vivid vessel]

feels like trash

[cinder relic]

Eh idk its p solid imo

[glass mortar]

oh i think its solid for the content i love

i doubt it will be very relevant in like mythic raid yk

but its still cool

[river wing]

it's ok for packs maybe
but 100% useless for bosses lmao

like it's the most open world talent tbh

[glass mortar]

and its almost exactly as i described it everytime i requested so

good job blizzard

5 big booms

[crimson scarab]

When will this become active tho?

[fathom bramble]

KB only is rough

[formal thunder]

[glass mortar]

next patch

[river wing]

12.0.5

so it's like

[glass mortar]

this is not notes for tuesday

[river wing]

May?

June?

[crimson scarab]

Yeah so quite some time

[river wing]

something like that

[vivid vessel]

this is prolly just a nerf btw

[crimson scarab]

Until we get aoe blind back

[river wing]

yeah this will end up a nerf

[lavish shoal]

it's -1 talent point for +1%

💀

[river wing]

because we will have to put two points in

[near rock]

That is a nerf

[fathom bramble]

For sure a nerf

[near rock]

[fathom bramble]

But mechanically better

[lavish shoal]

outlaw nerfed

[cinder relic]

idt they intend this to be a nerf, so they'll probs buff is elsewhere to compensate

[fathom bramble]

Really should be 5 combo points though

[cinder relic]

and this is where the comedians respond "CLUELESS"

[lavish shoal]

[vivid vessel]

tghey dont intend it to be a nerf

[near rock]

Yeah 100% just thought it was funny in current context

[formal thunder]

fuck

[vivid vessel]

they are just too clueless to buff it to be 5 cp

like everyone been asking

[formal thunder]

we do

[fathom bramble]

That cloud cover talent is interesting

[craggy barn]

do yall think aoe blind will still be capped based on bf talent

[lavish shoal]

i think "they didnt intend this to be a nerf and will compensate buff" is legit just sad

[fathom bramble]

Kind of a lot of damage % on ar on paper

[craggy barn]

or 8cap or whatever

[cinder relic]

what?

[crimson scarab]

Yeye but from next patch so we’ll be missing it until then

[formal thunder]

isn't it a one point talent now with that?

[lavish shoal]

i mean its sad to ship something you "dont intend to be a nerf" but is a clear nerf

to anyone who plays it

[river wing]

2 pts

[vivid vessel]

also gameplay nerf imo

[frail veldt]

Yeah wait isn't it

[vivid vessel]

5cp feels worse

than 2

[frail veldt]

1pt ace is weaker now

By a lot

[vivid vessel]

you do the same thing

ypui press a buoilder

[leaden sonnet]

Cloud cover though, massive outlaw burst!

[vivid vessel]

but now you waste more cp

[glass mortar]

yea it should be 5 CP but changing it to flat CP and changing % at least is good

[fresh acorn]

outlaw is so back!

[formal thunder]

bruh, read that as it being changed to a 1 point talent

[glass mortar]

design wise

[formal thunder]

cause it doesn't have differnt values anymore with slashes

[cinder relic]

its a lot more reset chance though

Is it actually a nerf?

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[cinder relic]

Idk what talent its competing with

[vivid vessel]

7% more ?

[lavish shoal]

10% more

[vivid vessel]

lol

[lavish shoal]

with supercharger

50 > 60%

[crimson scarab]

1 node is 3% and 2 nodes is 6% I believe

[vivid vessel]

!!!

[cinder relic]

Whats it competing with, like sleight or something?

[formal thunder]

ah bruh

now I see it

I was blinded

by hope

[lavish shoal]

[formal thunder]

never agian

doom mode engaged

[craggy barn]

blinded by the aoe blind we getting back

[fathom bramble]

Most of the benefit is in the reset % and we would pay 2 points for 6 instead of 1 for 5

[glass mortar]

nah i mean these r good changes

time to iterate on the ace one

[fathom bramble]

Probably a % or 2 at most nerf

[cinder relic]

I feel like its a lot more reset chance

[vivid vessel]

its 7% at 7 cp bro

[cinder relic]

6-9% more resets is a lot, and how much does any other talent do

[copper radish]

so are we gonna need 2/2 ace noow

[cinder relic]

for sure

[lavish shoal]

more resets is less dispatches is less apex resets

gg

[glass mortar]

there is one minor issue with buffing the proc chance while leaving it a talent you can choose to go 1/2 in

[copper radish]

RIP

[glass mortar]

zero in cannibalizes the value of getting more resets a bit

[fathom bramble]

Either 2/2 or 0/2

[lavish shoal]

yooooo 0/2

[copper radish]

0/2 sounds cool

[lavish shoal]

fk ace on god

[glass mortar]

i wish theyd change it so it doesnt have negative synergy with any talent that lets u cast bte more often tho

[vivid vessel]

what if it gave full cp ?

so you can

bte again ?

xd ?

what is this gameplay

[lavish shoal]

too powerful

[vivid vessel]

where you get to 5 cp

and have to recast a builder

[copper radish]

nah 4 thats it zac

[vivid vessel]

like whats the point

[lavish shoal]

its too powerful zac

[vivid vessel]

do they understand

that there is no difference

between getting 2 cp

and getting 4

[river wing]

no?

I'm pretty sure they don't actually play Outlaw

[glass mortar]

time for a forum post zac

[crimson scarab]

I genuinely think no one from the devs plays outlaw

[lavish shoal]

wait

[glass mortar]

they will respond to feedback

THIS time i believe

[torpid fiber]

aoe blind back pogchamp

[lavish shoal]

WTF is going on

[fathom bramble]

The problem they are trying to fix is likely just points 1 and 2 having dramatic differences in value

[river wing]

and someone out there is likely still thinking that 5 max combo is a legitimate build

[glass mortar]

old tooltips not updated

[fathom bramble]

Not the chain bte being ruined problem

[lavish shoal]

12 times normal damage?

[glass mortar]

happens all the time

no

[lavish shoal]

HOLY BTE

[glass mortar]

the debuff had BtEs old tooltip

[lavish shoal]

12 TIMES DAMAGE

[tired wolf]

confirmed

[torpid fiber]

tbf I wish it was

[glass mortar]

just like PS says it reduces the damage u take by 5% still even tho it doesnt

[mystic berry]

wait, did they nerf us?

[cinder relic]

No clue

[glass mortar]

[cinder relic]

Maybe?

[lavish shoal]

aoe blind

its a buff

[river wing]

more like it's a damage neutral change, maybe a very slight buff

[lavish shoal]

stop coping guys

[glass mortar]

its a 0.5 patch these changes r for design not tuning so u should assume anything thats a net movement in either direction would be compensated for

[craggy quiver]

Aoe blind is huge

[glass mortar]

look at the design

[craggy quiver]

Can't believe they took it away lmao

[cinder relic]

Agreed

Glad its back though

Outlaw has a 24 second AOE blind again

[craggy barn]

yuh

[mystic berry]

I mean, its positive change, I guess

idk about the ace change though

[shut lichen]

better than kidney shotting shit

[river wing]

p sure it'll go back to 1 min

[glass mortar]

ace change is in the right direction regardless of if its a net nerf or buff tuning wise

[river wing]

since it says "50% reduced CD" rather than 80%

[craggy barn]

i hope to see something done for left side of law tree

[static crescent]

great now rogue has utility

[glass mortar]

now we just need to convince them to make it 5 CP again

[fossil lintel]

I'm torn on the ace change, we still need to build after it but now 1 point is worse off

[static crescent]

we can all rest

fixed

[mystic berry]

this is for 0.5 only right?

[cinder relic]

This is for .5 yes

[vivid vessel]

oof

[crimson scarab]

Also why is MM getting buffed too👀

[vivid vessel]

wait

[fossil lintel]

We'll probably see tuning notes tomorrow

[harsh forge]

ace buff feels goodman

[vivid vessel]

i mean its fine

[vivid vessel]

ye

its juist

they didnt want us to take only one

but they didnt get the gameplay issue

[fossil lintel]

I meant general tuning note, not outlaw tuning

[harsh forge]

i dont mind building after

[vivid vessel]

of ace

idk

xd

[vivid vessel]

but then i would rather be at 2 cp

[craggy barn]

0/2 ace time

[vivid vessel]

instead of building at 5

[harsh forge]

yeah

[river wing]

it's fine just kinda lacking
honestly giving Rogue like a 30s aoe hardstop
wouldn't still be busted with mage and lock out there

[vivid vessel]

it feels dogshit

to build at that much cp

[gray summit]

i dream or the patch

[harsh forge]

it is feelsweird if you get a double hit sinister strike

[gray summit]

nerf us a bit N

[river wing]

yeah IDK why Ace doesn't give 5

[real yew]

we always roll rtb at 1 sec or there's a rule?

[vivid vessel]

it did

[river wing]

like just make it give 5

[vivid vessel]

then they nerfed to 4cp

[gray summit]

because we have to spent 1 more point in the talent

[mystic berry]

its a net positive

[vivid vessel]

everyone complained

[mystic berry]

But

[vivid vessel]

they unerfed it

and then

we are back at it

[mystic berry]

ace change is a bit unnecessary imo

[vivid vessel]

cuase diff dev

forgot

didnt get the memo

its unlucky

[fossil lintel]

Yeah building at 5 feels bad, I wish they just made it 5cp back

[copper radish]

this was our tuning for the rest of the patch just now WYM

[rocky canopy]

guys im actually so happy like the biggest thing i was bitching about was rogue having zero healing out of combat shit was so stupid having crimson vial 20% heal on a 30 second cooldown that shit made me mald out

[fossil lintel]

Then we would get the ace chains back

[vapid void]

does outlaw just break if u have no haste

[glass mortar]

yes

[copper radish]

can someone write a letter to blizzard with our complaints

[vapid void]

my haste is like 12% nd i feel slow

[cinder relic]

Yes

[fossil lintel]

I mean general tuning notes, I doubt we get mentioned at all

[copper radish]

old fashioned letter might get to them

[normal quail]

damn we made it

[past falcon]

mine is 11% and its abysmal

[vapid void]

how do we get it to raise any m+ we suggest or anything

[cinder relic]

haste flasks, enchants, gems

[crimson scarab]

You need around 25% to be optimal

[cinder relic]

Buy the cheap shit

[river wing]

actually I wonder about the placement of the vial talent

[cinder relic]

Take flickering steel rather than vers if ur haste is low

[mystic berry]

pit of saron drops great shit for us

[cinder relic]

Talent on the right side

[vivid vessel]

wtf

[fossil lintel]

Haste flasks is about 4% for the cheap one I think

[cinder relic]

^

[vapid void]

whats it called

[fathom bramble]

That was in the notes

[vivid vessel]

oh really?

i legit didnt read it

i mean thats still dogdshit i think

[fossil lintel]

Throw flask blood knight in the ah

[mild vigil]

does this even matter?

[eternal pagoda]

bring back arthritis HO SPEC OUTLAW

[vivid vessel]

kinda whatever no one cares about that anwyay

[river wing]

like where
shadowrunner alternative?

[real yew]

is there any rule saying at what remaining seconds we should rtb?

[vapid void]

is it that or flask of tempered swiftness

[fossil lintel]

Blood knight one is the haste one for this xpack

[glass mortar]

at the last moment when its about to run out

[lavish shoal]

i mean what is the cd of AR

[vivid vessel]

40s

30

idk

something like that

40

[lavish shoal]

its

[fossil lintel]

40-45

[lavish shoal]

15% dmg for 20 seconds when u press AR

vs 10% crit chance on finishers

[fossil lintel]

15 sec

[copper radish]

outlaw dead pack it in

[vivid vessel]

well no its not

cause we apply fazed naturally

no ?

[river wing]

ye

[glass mortar]

ur getting 2 additional stacks

[lavish shoal]

u get 2 additional stacks of fazed for 20 seconds

[glass mortar]

which is how much

[vivid vessel]

ah

[lavish shoal]

which is 16% dmg taken

[fossil lintel]

Oh the cloud lasts 20

[lavish shoal]

cloud lasts 10 and lingers for another 10

[vivid vessel]

fuck bro

[glass mortar]

cloud lasts 10, it persists for 10s after the cloud ends

[fossil lintel]

Right, but then the tank chains instantly right after you press it

[vivid vessel]

i dont wanna play this

[lavish shoal]

its actually pretty good

[glass mortar]

but a poop cloud u gotta stand in for 10s

[vivid vessel]

its a cloud

that doesnt move bro

[glass mortar]

very stinky

[vivid vessel]

imagine playing that shit

in keys

having to stand in cloud

[lavish shoal]

unlucky zacary

[vivid vessel]

fuck no

[fathom bramble]

may also stack the reduced damage taken from enemies portion of fazed

[vivid vessel]

remove that talent right now

[fathom bramble]

for whatever that is worth

[lavish shoal]

sit in ur cloud bud

[craggy barn]

hold ar for when tank stops moving

[fossil lintel]

What are you giving up for it? Isn't that a choice node?

[craggy barn]

pepw

[fathom bramble]

also your off targets don't often ahve fazed in aoe

[craggy barn]

crit finisher

[fathom bramble]

so it's +24% on that

[keen belfry]

Make that 4 a 5 and we are talking good changes

[lavish shoal]

i mean its

[fossil lintel]

We don't even play trickster anymore

[lavish shoal]

for sure better

i mean u might with this change idk

[river wing]

the buff persists tho

[craggy barn]

keep trickster dead while ks exists

[glass mortar]

not for the full duration tho

[fathom bramble]

is it even possible for trickster to take ace in aoe ?

[glass mortar]

if u move out of the cloud ur losing value

[fossil lintel]

Just make perma tricks in the class tree and trickster can die

[real yew]

ty

[snow hill]

Holy shit, so, can we confirm now that Sin and Sub basically just got a Death and Decay ability?

[vivid vessel]

bro ..

[fossil lintel]

Sin trickster

[mild vigil]

trickster sin pog?

[lavish shoal]

outlaw and sub

[snow hill]

Coz if thats the case then fkn rip for them

[fossil lintel]

Also sin already has poison bomb

[fathom bramble]

imagine the haste requirements on this build

[fossil lintel]

No sleight?

[fathom bramble]

but yeah there it is

[vivid vessel]

you guiys think i have infinite talent or what

just odnt play trickster

its ugly

nothing feels right on trickster

[glass mortar]

wasnt trickster already considering going to like 30% haste

on beta

imagine what this build would want

[vivid vessel]

50% ye

[glass mortar]

[fathom bramble]

can't recast AR after prep until the cloud ends so you don't lose 5 seconds of cloud 🤔

[vivid vessel]

you neeed 50% to be able to press 2 ss in a row

[fossil lintel]

The "change hero talent" button feels right on trickster

[snow hill]

100% agree. F trickster. FB is fun and simple.

[lavish shoal]

pretty sure you just chain it bud

for sure

[zinc briar]

Its only me having delay with the combo points and the recovery of bte?

was unplayable for me and i had 55-60 fps

[crimson scarab]

In raid?

I also had such issues

[fathom bramble]

and lose 5 seconds of the 16% damage amp

idk

it's possible you would delay ar until cloud ends too

[glass mortar]

gravedigger doesnt proc until the Bte projectile hits

[lavish shoal]

i mean if u dont chain it then outlaw is giga cooked

[glass mortar]

some bosses have wonky hit boxes

and it takes it a second to hit

it is cringe and noticable

[haughty wigeon]

Please

Pleaaase

[zinc briar]

yes, was like lagging

[haughty wigeon]

Just makes aces one talent point

[snow hill]

ah THATS what that is, ty for clarify

[vivid vessel]

just make ace give full cps ..

[haughty wigeon]

Literally

Anything

Fuck

[crimson scarab]

Ye same, needed to tinker the graphic settings a bit to increase performance and it worked for me

[vivid vessel]

i cant believe they understood half

of what we wanted

the worse half

[narrow pasture]

vorasius is worst offender for delayed bte procs

[vivid vessel]

trolls

[haughty wigeon]

Mafic is gonna say it’s a good change

[glass mortar]

yea i'll add it to the ptr post

[vivid vessel]

its gravesucker

[glass mortar]

the gravedigger delay thing

maybe they fix it

[vivid vessel]

tuirbo dog

[haughty wigeon]

And rogue is getting nothing but Ws this expansion

[vivid vessel]

and ss delayed cp now ..

[lavish shoal]

who tf is mafic

[glass mortar]

i put that in my first post

🥰

just for u zac

[narrow pasture]

for now just take a half second after sending bte to see if u get the gravedigger proc

[vivid vessel]

link

[narrow pasture]

so u dont build when u supposed to spend

[glass mortar]

for now u should just track gravedigger

ur sorta inting in raid by not

because of the delay

[vivid vessel]

xd

just dont be a noob

[glass mortar]

its not like u cant know when its gunna proc

its guarenteed lol

[stuck patrol]

Will we actually put two cps in ace now lmao

Two talents i mean

[narrow pasture]

true

[fathom bramble]

I'm predicting 2 or 0

[narrow pasture]

wait hold up

gravedigger is in the cdm?

[river wing]

yes

[glass mortar]

yes

[narrow pasture]

[fathom bramble]

1/2 is nerfed significantly, 2 points is buffed

[stuck patrol]

[fathom bramble]

will 2 be strong enough to take ?

who knows

[daring yoke]

Our beloved Outlaw ways be lookin’ like a leaky dinghy in a storm right now — damage be lower than a sunken chest and luck drier than the captain’s biscuit. But mark me words… this be but a rough tide.
Hold fast to yer blades and don’t be abandonin’ ship just yet. The winds will turn, the dice will roll true again, and soon we’ll be plunderin’ the meters like the ruthless pirates we are.

[vivid vessel]

they might have cooked outlaw

imagine we dont put a point in ace

[narrow pasture]

no bte outlaw

WILD

[stuck patrol]

I'd actually kms

[river wing]

poor man's Combat

[craggy barn]

combat is back

[glass mortar]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogue-feedback-thread-for-patch-1205/2271246/7

[stuck patrol]

My life is on the line blizzard

[glass mortar]

I'll make a new post tomorrow responding to this stuff

not that blizzard has cared about these feedback threads for us in... awhile

but its nice to pretend

🥰

[fluid meadow]

okay ask ryu we need new builds to play, maybe they will understand his words

[haughty wigeon]

I would love a glyph to remove the gun. But I’ll scream if this happens without Outlaw being given the same treatment.

I can’t stand playing the spec on my rogue, because a night elf pulling a gun just feels so wrong. Even with that aside, I just plain don’t like having my character whip out some weapon they obviously aren’t carrying. Like where are the pistol and blunderbuss coming from? My pocket?

[stuck patrol]

Understood. KIR and prep nerfed, KS buffed

[haughty wigeon]

Ty for agreeing with my post

[glass mortar]

the sidearm 1 hand crossbow animation hunters have had for ages is sick too

i would be so happy if we ever got access to that

or even just throwing a knife or something

[old gull]

aoe build for alleria or nah?

[river wing]

agree from the other direction - let us have 1h guns and just pistol butt people with them for melee abilities

[river wing]

ok lmao that's huge

[random stirrup]

currently visible to all other members of your raid

[glass mortar]

LOL

time to cover the bosses in farts

[narrow pasture]

outlaw renamed to snoop dogg rogue

[vivid vessel]

nice

[river wing]

smoke bomb every day

[vivid vessel]

so you cant see anything

pelase god

[haughty wigeon]

Ts a copy pasta guys

[crimson scarab]

Isn’t that the smoke bomb PvP talent?

[river wing]

p sure they just share a visual

[crimson scarab]

Are u sure?

[glass mortar]

thats bigger then smoke bomb

almost twice as large

[random stirrup]

ya smoke bomb is smaller

[river wing]

not entirely

[glass mortar]

its the same animation tho

[river wing]

but is it the same particle?

[glass mortar]

like the cloud for sure

but its noticably bigger

yes

[river wing]

that's what I meant

[glass mortar]

i mean smoke bomb has always had a decent animation ye

[river wing]

so yes then I'm sure

[crimson scarab]

Okay fair enough

[frigid gorge]

I agree with this tbh lol

The new ace change is so not it

Not in PvE, not in PvP

[glass mortar]

listen its a baby step in the correct direction

we just need to uh

[river wing]

ehhh
if they make it 5 CP, then I'll pay 2 pts gladly

[glass mortar]

get the new rogue guy to know we dont BtE at 5 CP anymore

[haughty wigeon]

Literally

[glass mortar]

this isnt cracklaw

[haughty wigeon]

5-6 cp

Fuck

[river wing]

just make it fill the bar yeah

[vivid vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9jVNDEGhxinxC5raDPSW15 @fathom bramble

[lilac lion]

i have a few questions... My sim on Patchwerk 1 Target tells me i take as Trinkets Sunflareprism and Crucible of erratic energies... BUT! bloodmallet tells me that this Trinkets are ass... same thing with the Heart of Wind?... Now what?

[vivid vessel]

seems safe in aoe

[glass mortar]

WTF

these changes got even zac simmin

[vivid vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cFZsg4rBNX1yMUvbduVs58 in st also

[glass mortar]

we r so back

[vivid vessel]

tho i think im slighlty low haste

no im fine

im 21 before flask

[glass mortar]

i mean ace is too strong to pass up right surely even a nerfed ace, i get we are sad that they havent fixed the CP gen yet

[vivid vessel]

"too strong"

[glass mortar]

but ace is still a substantial increase in total Bte casts and BtE is ur highest DPET of this outlaw by like twice anything else

too strong for a change like this to make u drop yea

[crimson scarab]

Is it intentional u have deft?

[glass mortar]

bro 2.7% would make it like our third best capstone

😠

[vivid vessel]

ye why not ?

[glass mortar]

deft doesnt compete with dps talents

[vivid vessel]

what am i gonna take instead

[crimson scarab]

Ah yeah mb

[haughty wigeon]

Can we pls

[glass mortar]

anyway i will write up a thingy tomorrow

[haughty wigeon]

Have gun be cool

[crimson scarab]

I didn’t see that u didn’t get deadly pursuit

[glass mortar]

unless rem does it first

[haughty wigeon]

Bte do more damage

[vivid vessel]

bro this is mafic thread?

[haughty wigeon]

I am at work rn

Break

[haughty wigeon]

Yes

[glass mortar]

who cares its a feedback thread

hes gunna be in any of them anyway

[haughty wigeon]

There is no official feedback thread

[glass mortar]

its not like blizz is gunna make us one

its a micro patch ptr

[haughty wigeon]

Which is crazy

Cause there’s substantial class changes happening I. This micro patch

[vivid vessel]

there was nothing during beta tbf

[normal forge]

better, but it should be a 1 pt talent, where are we taking that extra pt from?

[vivid vessel]

i mean its not better

you still need to build after proccing

but now you waste more cps !

prolly is a nerf

[normal forge]

O.O

[cinder relic]

sleight?

[stuck patrol]

Wym waste more cps

[haughty wigeon]

I did a thing

[vivid vessel]

you need to build to max cp anyway

[haughty wigeon]

With exaggeration

[vivid vessel]

cause the proc is powerful

[haughty wigeon]

To stir up panic

[cinder relic]

Theres no world we take 0 ace lol

[glass mortar]

Ok well ur crashing out on zac crashout so id be careful

[cinder relic]

We'd just drop sleight

[vivid vessel]

we wont be pressing bte at 5cp

[vapid void]

god my haste is so low

[glass mortar]

but i agree with the core of ur point so

[haughty wigeon]

I said with exaggeration to stir up panic lol

[glass mortar]

get upvoted

[vivid vessel]

so instead of pressing a builder at 3cp after a proc

[glass mortar]

😠

[vivid vessel]

you now build at 5cp

which feels kinda dog

if you ask me

[stuck patrol]

What about in ST builds where we dont pick sleight?

[glass mortar]

omg a legendary loktark post

[haughty wigeon]

Where?!

[glass mortar]

wait rem where did u post i dont see ur post

did u post in the right thread

[haughty wigeon]

No

[glass mortar]

its in the feedback thread

[haughty wigeon]

Not in the feedback

[glass mortar]

loks