me when dk is worse than rogue after nerfs
#outlaw
daring yoke
I think one of the devs must mained dk
final pagoda
off topic how ur guild is managing soaks on paladins hc?
weary fog
mark healers, assign groups to marks, healers spread out in a line
makes it really easy
fallen zodiac
final pagoda
they always pick healers
what if u play only 2 healers? aren't there 4 soaks?
weary fog
in that case, good question 
assign groups to the two healers, everyone else fight for ur life int he other soaks
balmy topaz
me when dk is worse than rogue after nerfs
Craazzyy ain't it
tiny onyx
This is my current crit/haste without flask or oil when both of my trinkets are proc'd (Crucible & Solarprism)
in #outlaw-faq our diminishing is 40% crit and 25% haste.
So would you guys recommend that I haste flask and start working on bringing up my verse? (currently at 5.44%)
hardy thicket
Dont overthink statweights. Primary stats is a thing. You just chase whatever item is the biggest upgrade for you in terms of your own gear. Theres no benefit or need to set goals of working towards x more stat.
This obviously doesnt apply to haste since it has an actual built in breakpoint for Outlaw rn.
This is why the FAQ states that you need to be using raidbots to determine what gear to chase.
You can also use raidbots to sim out which flask would be most optimal right now. Probably still haste but I would sim it
tiny onyx
Dont overthink statweights. Primary stats is a thing. You just chase whatever it...
gotcha, the main thing is to hit at least 20% haste or do we want closer to 25%.
I did sim it and it recommended me the crit version
vivid vessel
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vivid vessel
is this thing just completly bugged
i just spent 10 min doing it
won
and i didnt get the box
fading igloo
and i didnt get the box
Not sure if true, but I think you gotta be there from the very beginning to get the box
happened to me as well when I joined into one that was already running 
hollow bloom
Its a buggy mess, had to do it twice. Another friend had to do it three times, he afk’ed half the time tho.
sonic pawn
@vivid vessel where you there right at the start before the timer started or arrived late ?
i noticed you need to get there before the actual even starts otherwise the world quest doesn't pop up
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> where you there right at the start before the timer starte...
i mean
i arrived first wave lol
its kinda bullshit
sonic pawn
yeah too late mate unlucky
crimson scarab
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ADxfXY4yZ8HrRtNn Can someone give some pointers and points of improvement based on the logs from yesterday? Id appreciate every small thing
hasty warren
Hi pirates
stuck bane
outlaw feels a bit heavy to me, is it because we are not geared up yet?
fathom bramble
if I understand what you mean by heavy it should get better with more gear
haste matters a lot now for how outlaw feels now
stuck bane
if I understand what you mean by heavy it should get better with more gear
great thanks
hasty warren
haste tax is getting worst every season
trim tiger
anyone have a ui i can yoink
tepid lagoon
so i just unlocked Killing spree and this skill seems terrible lol
i just came off survival hunter where boomstick blows up everything in a direction
im hoping it feels better once I actually have stats and am not lvl 50?
silk stirrup
Is it ok to use a dagger as offhand?
fading igloo
im hoping it feels better once I actually have stats and am not lvl 50?
Entire class feels better with gear and levels, especially haste, but killing spree is for sure less exciting of a button than boomstick lol
tepid lagoon
Entire class feels better with gear and levels, especially haste, but killing sp...
thats sad, i was so excited about it haha, but thats fine. I was loving the class before unlocking it and decided this will be my main after having a week long class crisis trying like 6 different specs
so a bad killing spree isnt enough to make me swap off, just a little feels bad lol
fading igloo
Fwiw you don’t use it in current endgame builds, unless Trickster, but that might be a downside for you if you like the visuals of it
tepid lagoon
Fwiw you don’t use it in current endgame builds, unless Trickster, but that migh...
i mainly pvp and it being a channel seems not amazing in it lol
i usually just play battlegrounds
fading igloo
Outlaw PvP 
tepid lagoon
yeaaa lol
thankfully its not ranked and most people dont have hands so a bad class can still play
that being said i have a monk and hunter leveled incase i lose my mind haha
deep sequoia
so do we hold our hero crests for the week or is it ok to send them on an upgrade or something?
inland acorn
so do we hold our hero crests for the week or is it ok to send them on an upgrad...
Depends how badly you want to min max
Unless you're in a rush i dont think there is need to upgrade anything rn
deep sequoia
oh im def not im just wondering lol
finally got my trinkets/rings from my m0s
just need to finish up heroic for some tier (hopefully)
obsidian mirage
Is there a way to have a weak aura esque th ing that tells you what roll you got
obsidian mirage
this one?
blissful idol
bro how do i get up there lol
obsidian mirage
around the other side
crimson scarab
Is it ok to use a dagger as offhand?
its even better to use a dagger as OH, its around 1% dmg increase
obsidian mirage
its even better to use a dagger as OH, its around 1% dmg increase
cause higher attack speed?
crimson scarab
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of 
Zero In, and also slightly more 
Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.
It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use 
Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.
blissful idol
around the other side
omg i was blind ty
obsidian mirage
sensei class resource bar and cooldown manager centered
Do you know where you got that setup? Did you make it or get it from like wago.io
still matrix
Are our trinket bis/sims still accurate on wowhead?
https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/outlaw/bis-gear
deep sequoia
he has setups for all the things i have
still matrix
That maisara caverns trinket is a troll
it's so ahrd to see the balls in raid
but it sims so high
deep sequoia
i have solarflare/eye of the void/forgotten souls
forgotten souls is definitely a sim trap
heart of wind is probably better or even the ranger trinket from alleria
obsidian mirage
holy, this is a game changer. I rememebr hearing about this, but I forgot about it when I came back
still matrix
heart of wind is probably better or even the ranger trinket from alleria
these both sim really poorly for me
deep sequoia
yeah crucible still sims higher for me lmao
still matrix
I have 263 crucible, crit stat stick and libram.
and the 250 vessel
but the uptime on it is shit so think its just sim bait
crimson scarab
Can I have both the prismatic focusing iris and the darkmoon sigil void embellishment or its either or?
obsidian mirage
Is there a way to make these centralize, so its not on the left and instead be in the middle
worldly compass
guys I think they fixed the Atal'aman delve
opening the cages removes stealth now
jk you can still get 7 cages with sap
lime lake
yeah theres a route you can still do all of them fine
i got valeera to 30 before the nemesis came out doing that
worldly compass
i did a bit of farming bot not lvl 30 lmao
worldly compass
i was in bed when it filled 🙁
lime lake
yeah for eu you wouldve had to be up right away for it i bet
storm kindle
What did you guys Craft as second item on Outlaw rogue?
jade crag
i was testing some sims, I think if you can get myth versions of both swords they might be BiS. Wouldnt be outlaw if some of our top gear was straight random unknow bs
patent mirage
i got both now
sterile dune
Any weird trinkets that are actually completely fine but sims show them as poop?
I know special items like trinkets are harder to measure in sims
Since its not just simple statchecking
vivid vessel
i so wanna click on this link,
sterile dune
I think for weapons most imoortant is the raw dps and less so effects? Since like 3 ilevels on a wep is bigger dps diff than 3 ilevels on an armour piece. So raw damage > proc effects on weapons?
sterile dune
Or is proc effects actually goated in midnight?
vivid vessel
i clicked bro
vivid vessel
amy suggestion for first craft?
nah i ve got no clue
lime lake
i just wanna know wtf WAR is
radiant kelp
nah i ve got no clue
hmm so should we wait?
vivid vessel
cant understand this either
radiant kelp
Hmmm
vivid vessel
boss 2 gives dagger
so crafting dagger can be troll if you do it too early
this also give weapon
it all depends on like
i still dont know what spec is better on what boss
we dont know the difficulty of the raid
we dont know the comp we will play
like if first 3 bosses are free why would i craft
maybe i drop 2 dagger
radiant kelp
probably yea
vivid vessel
its not even rare that this happen
maybe im the only person needing a weapon cause it makes sesne for like
enhance to crraft a main hand for example
or dh
idk
so i soak fallen king weapon ?
idk
its all things i will need to think about for mythc week
but not rn
lethal oak
its all things i will need to think about for mythc week
Will you play assa though is the question on everyone's mind
vivid vessel
idk
next veldt
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc:- Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
crimson scarab
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
gray cloud
so why is outlaw back to Dagger in OH? Just for the fast attack speed for "Zero In" talent?
jade crag
Or is proc effects actually goated in midnight?
hard to say, Radiant Foil/Abyss sabre just randomly showed up yesterday, Simc also sims them weird and gives a notification when you do saying it skips part of the effect, at minimum they were simming similar/sidegrade to current bis at myth track but are probably much harder to get
crimson scarab
so why is outlaw back to Dagger in OH? Just for the fast attack speed for "Zero ...
yeah basically
jade crag
iirc Pistol shot is also using the OH slot for dmg
gray cloud
iirc Pistol shot is also using the OH slot for dmg
but this would benefit a slow OH
vivid vessel
thse things are normalized
orchid storm
First time playing Outlaw since before Legion, mostly following the wowhead guide and some videos on YouTube, any pointers outside that? I use a Logitech g600 MMO mouse primarily
hasty warren
There is an addon to check who is targeted by boss spells in raid ?
static crescent
So, everybody is ranking outlaw to be fairly low in their youtube tierlists for m+, people here that actually played beta, do you think outlaw is in a bad state? Very loosely looking at RWF and atleast in raids Outlaw seems to be popular choice right now
For sake of argument id just consider damage output in my question, not the obvious lack of utility and raid buff
untold wadi
tierlist
hasty warren
the only tierlist I trust is the one from archon, but it's only popularity, damge and usefulness
narrow pasture
tierlists for raid should be taken with a big spoon of salt due to many variables
queen forge
do you use ambush as outlaw now?
didnt play in a while i remember not using amush cuz SS had some proc chances?
cobalt finch
do you use ambush as outlaw now?
didnt play in a while i remember not using amus...
ambush is dead
narrow pasture
do you use ambush as outlaw now?
didnt play in a while i remember not using amus...
no, the HO build is performing below the KIR one with SS
queen forge
rogers
untold wadi
jolly rogers (pirate (outlaw reference) reference)
narrow pasture
For sake of argument id just consider damage output in my question, not the obvi...
raw numbers and performance for all 3 specs are currently somewhat equal
3 more tuning passes are planned, which will probably shake things up
play what you enjoy right now, if you want to leave your options open dont drop a spark on a weapon craft and keep options open for when we know what will be played in CE prog
lucid coral
Why does outlaw rogue have trash single target dps?
narrow pasture
it doesnt?
river zenith
Do we use our Dawnlight Manaflux Catalyst now, or save it?
crystal canopy
depends on your current situation, hard to say
if you can guarantee a 4p by using it, absolutely use it no matter what
if you can't guarantee 4p, might be worth saving it for next week to have more freedom depending on what items you get
river zenith
Thanks! also what's worth spending champion/hero crests on? better to save or use now? i was saving hero for craft but seems like its better to use myth crests next week for weapon craft
crystal canopy
depends on how much content you're going to do
if your plan is next week to farm m+ to get hero track items in every slot, champion crests are fairly free to spend this week since you have 400 of them
river zenith
i've also got a 259 dagger on hero track, but im also the only rogue in the guild that could use the dagger from raid
crystal canopy
are you likely to kill the second boss on mythic in the first week?
river zenith
nope
crystal canopy
if yes, you can hold the craft on dagger
if not, just craft a myth dagger when you get the crests imo
or well, just noticed in outlaw channel
river zenith
oh i play sub, didnt realise this is outlaw haha
ive got a crafted dagger 259 and a hero track dagger 259
so probably worth sending on the dagger?
crystal canopy
yeah as sub I'd just craft the myth dagger asap
don't send hero crests on crafting
river zenith
i mean send myth on crafting and hero on this hero track dagger? got shit stats crit/vers but i guess wep damage is best here
crystal canopy
hero crests are probably better spent on trinkets
offhand weapon damage is worth very little
river zenith
ive got the puzzle trinket on champion, but not sure if worth upgrading
crystal canopy
so if you're crafting a mainhand high ilvl weapon, the crests would just be offhand and that's a very low stat budget item
cobalt finch
i mean send myth on crafting and hero on this hero track dagger? got shit stats ...
i would spend hero on something more usefull statwise than offhand weapon (trinkets, chest, neck)
but our rogue did just that, he got a hero track dagger and went full in (even tho our RL advised against it)
fervent garden
never knew to de-prioritize OH. that's good to know.
prisma bramble
Guys I'm having a hard time deciding. Do you think Outlaw can compete with Fury damage this season?
narrow pasture
Guys I'm having a hard time deciding. Do you think Outlaw can compete with Fury...
3 more tuning passes are announced, we dont know
formal snow
guys when do we use puzzle box?
prisma bramble
God, i'm going to bite it hard and go for outlaw it seems, god help me
formal snow
macro it some way or before pull or
narrow pasture
guys when do we use puzzle box?
bad outlaw trinket, avoid if possible
formal snow
noted.
narrow pasture
if not, use it whenever its up together with adrenaline rush
cobalt finch
guys when do we use puzzle box?
we dont want any mastery
fringe dirge
So I usually don’t play outlaw but gave it a shot yesterday in raid. On two bosses I got 99 logs, on others it was between 60-80 is it really that luck dependent on rolls? Feels like a good roll makes ALOT of difference which is weird for something you have little control over
narrow pasture
60 parse is unlikely to only be rtb luck
thorn parrot
Tried out outlaw and got 99 on what lmfao
narrow pasture
if aoe fight could've been a bad pull, tanking mistakes, etc
fringe dirge
Yea also gameplay issues and fails, I get that. But from 80 to 99 for example
narrow pasture
from pure feelscraft, i can imagine a good player going down to a 85ish parse if absolutely terrible rtb rng
fringe dirge
Tried out outlaw and got 99 on what lmfao
Salhadaar and Vorasius
plush grove
Does it make sense to do a +11 delve thsi week if we arent rep rank 4?
fringe dirge
Worst fights for me were vanguards and crown
polar kelp
Depends, last night if I got a 4star roll on the rip with lust and pot and prep charge.....compared to a 2 star roll....it was about 15k overall difference at the end of the fight
narrow pasture
Depends, last night if I got a 4star roll on the rip with lust and pot and prep ...
normal?
fringe dirge
Noted, thanks for the input. I would definetly agree with the 15-20k difference at end of fight depending on luck and timing of good rolls
polar kelp
Ya just casual guild
narrow pasture
keep in mind
the shorter the fight, the more bad rolls will affect dps
so normal shouldnt bother you too much, things die too quick
in heroic itll be much more equalized
5 rolls vs 10 rolls etc
fringe dirge
I’ll just wait and see in mythic then. Already crafted a sword so I’m kinda locked anyways 😄
narrow pasture
mostly players 😄
did splits with badly geared alts this week (longer fights), variance for me was about 5-8k dps
glass mortar
25% i believe
hasty warren
!haste
ornate heathBOT
A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.
*But Haste has a **requirement ** because 
Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.
The 
KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after 
Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.
The 
HO build gets 
Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.
You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.
glass mortar
uhhhh dont use that command
that is a TWW command
and it is not accurate to midnight
not super inaccurate anyway, the reason we are aiming for 20% right now is 25% is just so much of ur budget its not worth going for
take em by surprise doesnt exist and HO and kir builds need identical haste (altho HO isnt played rn)
whole storm
guys what enchants we can use beside the BIS/ Guide ones? coz they for 40k golds now, so i looking for something temporary?
glass mortar
@gaunt phoenix should update that command (or nix it) for the time being probably
whenever u get a chance
still matrix
I think I have like every m0 trinket now and this world boss one is ahead of all
barely*
weary fog
huge
fair ore
not super inaccurate anyway, the reason we are aiming for 20% right now is 25% i...
I see then should I work on versatility and crit instead?
glass mortar
no
fair ore
it is with great pleasure that I present
I plan to take down the hard mode version later today
fair ore
Okok
cursive gyro
I plan to take down the hard mode version later today
it was so fucking annoying. good luck my brother.
cursive gyro
I can't speak for everyone but I had her set to healer. Her blood orbs have a stacking buff that amplifies your healing. It lasts 15s. You can chain them to survive for a while. I didn't run cheat death, I think there may be a mechanic where you take less dmg not proportional to you damage reduction if you just have active mit up. Really anecdotal on that though.
Save personals for when you need to rez her.
fair ore
weary fog
ill probably throw a few attempts at it this weekend
fair ore
I tried with her as support and it went significantly longer for sure
weary fog
but tbh, it just looks so much less interesting than nexus princess
if its a struggle bus rn, i might jsut wait for more gear lol
glass mortar
its just a stat check basically
the boss autos u to death
and her
the actual mechanics r pretty bleah
weary fog
yeaaa
glass mortar
def play her as a healer, especially if you are going to tricks
the tank npcs have no sustain they just hold threat
cursive gyro
if its a struggle bus rn, i might jsut wait for more gear lol
its gonna be super easy once we have the gear. he melee swings on me for 75% atm..
glass mortar
and the dps one obviously has no sustain
weary fog
going from kyveza to this is tragic
river wing
if I can be real for one sec
I still prefer this to Kyveza
it's trash but it's like
normal trash
unironically the best one was the Underboss IMO
cursive gyro
I think they've all had some major pain points. They really need to have three delve challenges, one geared toward each role. Similar to mage tower.
river wing
Zekvir had random crits and that fucking upraised platform for no reason
Underboss had a very unclear add spawn pattern and having to interact with items on the go
Kyveza had the shell game
Nullaeus just has no mechs and instead tries to just drown you in unavoidable damage
unique fulcrum
anyone already crafted 2 items?
stoic wagon
anyone already crafted 2 items?
Weapon feet
crimson scarab
I also did weap feet
Just seemed in droptimizer which would be better feet or ring and feet was higher % increase
glass mortar
Zekvir had random crits and that fucking upraised platform for no reason
Underbo...
zekvir has mechanics that certain specs had 10X the difficulty dealing with then others (the kick and egg burn), undermine boss was only a real fight if u did it as intended or purposefully let adds live to make it a bullet hell
the problem with undermine was the boss spawned like 5X the bombs u needed to kill all the adds he spawned
so u could spend 10 minutes autoing him to death while u ran around playing soccer and never take any damage
kyveza was the best mechanically and design wise imo
but it was definitly very hard
river wing
kyveza was the best mechanically and design wise imo
it really is spec independent
but it's like
I fucking hate the shell game
always have
like back in Legion? total bullshit
I simply can't keep track
glass mortar
it took me a few pulls to figure it out but once i figured it out i didnt fail a single one idk
its def tricky
it was the face that got me most of my pulls because it was such a direct facing requirement at first
and also when she'd do like 3 on opposite sides of u
river wing
I had huge problems with ? even simply because of the shell game
weary fog
im convinced shell game was a settings issue idk
river wing
the shadowclones I learned, the daggers are whatever, but it didn't matter
but ? died in one rotation so I only had to get lucky once
for ??, I just got tired and dropped by attempt 40 or 50
everything else died in maybe 30 attempts to begin with
p sure when I come back to Nullaeus in ok gear, it'll die in one or two lmao
glass mortar
yea i mean literally the only thing it has going for it difficulty wise is that it autos u to death which like, is a stat check
you cant really outplay the autos, especially when they sometimes just crit you for 90% hp
the actual mechanics are a bit sad
it honestly feels like the bosses autos dont even scale between tank/dps role 🤷
just from the vods ive watched of people doing it
kyveza had the thing where she barely moved ur hp bar but the longer the fight went, the higher her passive auto damage would ramp
so its like a soft enrage
that makes way more sense then this
weary fog
the one kill vid ive watched was some dude just running around the room in a circle between CDs while flame shocking him
near rock
Rogue buffs announced tomorrow guys
cursive gyro
Rogue buffs announced tomorrow guys
where? I see the notes that include the dk buff. I don't see anything re: rogue in there.
glass mortar
they are coping
idk if theyd even announce tuesday tuning tonight they might want a full weekend of logs before doing pre mythic tuning if we even get it
its always possible tho
vivid vessel
only sub is going to getr buffed cause its lowest of the 3 specs on wcl
(it has a 14% tier set but devs dont know that )
@fathom bramble
not unexpected but
ye
funny i guess
potent ore
vivid vessel
its last boss, has 2x a 1min downtime phase were you afk
rest is pure st with add phases
or uh
i dont actually remember properly how much aoe there is
weary fog
its like, very minimal aoe
its like one slime at a time if i remember and they just explode
cuz u kill them with the arrow thingy anyways
vivid vessel
ye but you are thinking about normal
right
im kinda assuming adds will be more relevant as you go into mythic and hc
weary fog
ye havent tried hc yet, but still should just die to the arrow right
sullen walrus
@vivid vessel u will be push keys in midnight with your group from tww?
vivid vessel
ye
i think
we will do keys at 5am
on day 1
for fun
cause you get the achievs
and our healer is an achiev person so
gotta help the guy
sullen walrus
i try to find group like this and bro it's hard
a lot of ppl playing wow like casuals
in raid we use fatebound ST build?
vivid vessel
ye
or aoe
i think there is quite a few bosses we might go aoe
its less of a loss than it was in tww
to go aoe
in tww it was legit 20% st loss or smth
cause you were going from fb to trickstre etc
and losing 2 fth
sand jewel
The dragons are aoe
vivid vessel
now i think its kinda fine going aoe
crimson scarab
i saw a lot of ppl go aoe on the 2 drakes, imperator
vivid vessel
i will need to check
crimson scarab
some chimaerus
vivid vessel
but more like 5% st loss prolly
quasi verge
boys whats the easiest or fastest delve
glass mortar
now i think its kinda fine going aoe
looked like 10% for me but i was going based off other peoples sims
crimson scarab
boys whats the easiest or fastest delve
i found the one in zul aman super fast because i just stealthed around and didnt fight a lot
crimson scarab
the one which is the southest in the zone
glass mortar
or i will whenever I get home and actually logon the game
vivid vessel
looked like 10% for me but i was going based off other peoples sims
ye i havent really checked the exact numbers
quasi verge
i found the one in zul aman super fast because i just stealthed around and didnt...
ty goat preciate u
vivid vessel
its prolly a bit less than that in reality weran
because going the 2nd aoe talent is actually a st gain
because
you press bf less
i think
vivid vessel
i will need to check again
glass mortar
thats only real if you'd be maintaining BF for any real amount of time tho but yea true
vivid vessel
i simmed very quickly
round cairn
how much haste we need as outlul
glass mortar
in an actual dedicated aoe fight that would be a ST gain
vivid vessel
thats only real if you'd be maintaining BF for any real amount of time tho but y...
ye so any aoe boss
glass mortar
if ur pressing BF once every minute to cleave an add thats not gunna be noticable tho
ye sure
vivid vessel
Ye sure
gaunt phoenix
how much haste we need as outlul
~20% for energy, ~25% continues to be good for Adrenaline Rush gcd, after 25% falls off harshly
gaunt phoenix
You NEED ~20%
vivid vessel
Brother
round cairn
Thanks bossman
vivid vessel
Tell me the exact number
wintry solar
bruhthuh
gaunt phoenix
But haste continues to be good for a bit
vivid vessel
24.67!
quasi verge
heh
round cairn
I will even it out as 22.5
mighty pivot
40% haste or bust
wintry solar
then why you even ask? smh my head
round cairn
Cause i didnt know there was 2 different numbers bucko
mighty pivot
all goes to vers
zac's utopia
wintry solar
theres actually an infinite amount of numbers when you think about it
round cairn
Then go vers
cursive gyro
Is this enough movespeed or should I be running more?
wintry solar
Blizz thought itd be funny if they made it so the spec doesnt function with 0 haste
mighty pivot
they liked it so much they made sub like that too 
mighty pivot
ok uhdk main
round cairn
If crit & vers are semi-equal on sim would it be better to stack vers for higher end keys or even them out also
glass mortar
if they are equal i'd always choose vers
neither impacts gameplay at all but one makes u tankier
u'll need alot of crit before vers starts being equal tho
think it was around 40%
gaunt rover
not sure why but that 1cp SS instead of PS optimization feels like the most satisfying mini-game of the new rotation
glass mortar
its basically the only "new" rule to the core rotation so yea it does feel nice
it also feels nice because it leads to casting SS at 5 CP wayyyyyy less often
which always feels like shit cause u overcap hella cp all the time
gaunt rover
yeah, its like the only thing that can "fail" so to speak
glass mortar
trickster just dumps combo points in the garbage like its its job i swear
crimson scarab
if im at 1 CP and hav 6 stacks of opportunity, i also got with pistol shot right?
glass mortar
yea
crimson scarab
and then send dispatch at 5 CPs or press SS if i have BTE correct?
glass mortar
yea
vivid vessel
thanks bro
crimson scarab
is there anyone I can ask or dm for some guidance on the spec and I what I could be doing better based on my logs?
wintry solar
np
glass mortar
idk who is doing log reviews rn or if anyone even is
outlaw is annoying to log review
seems like new outlaw would be just as annoying tbh
like every single rule is just dependent on ur buff status and amount of CP when ur gunna press a button and thats annoying af to read in logs
crimson scarab
ah okay I understand, thanks for the explanation
light ingot
what should we craft as embelish
crimson scarab
what should we craft as embelish
i did void MH and arcanoweave on feet
glass mortar
do we no longer have log review threads that can be opened for t his channel or has nobody used the command since midnight
i dont see any but i see them for sin and sub
vivid vessel
they are just dormant
glass mortar
ah ok
if u type !log and post ur logs in that channel maybe someone will come help u out
crimson scarab
!log
glass mortar
i dont wanna get ur hopes too high tho not many people do outlaw log reviews its a pita for sure
I'll take a look if i have time while at work
plus people busy this week with prepping for mythic week even if they would be willing to you know
crimson scarab
i understand thats its a long shot haha
thanks a lot tho for the tips
appreciate it
vivid vessel
@cinder relic you there?
glass mortar
zac i dont even step into a raid until tomorrow night, which fight is pure ST?
those are usually the easiest to log review 
crimson scarab
vorasius and saljadar?
vivid vessel
but there isnt an actuall single target boss
with 0 cleave
but these are kinda that
keen belfry
Input lag was so ass last night, I forget how bad 25+ man raids are
mystic berry
I was having a shitload of lag yesterday
world latency was like, 300 ms
my dps was healer tier
keen belfry
I still fucked but probably -3.65% dps atleast
glass mortar
oh god you cant overlay combo point levels with casts at the same time on WCL?
bro how r u ever supposed to log review this outlaw
gaunt phoenix
you can vaguely see 5cp bte
vivid vessel
i mean
tehre is a reason we dont really do log reviews for outlaw
its just annoying
gaunt phoenix
Though 5cp bte really doesnt matter loll
keen belfry
When someone asks for a log review you tell them to send a VOD
keen belfry
Zac elleui added borders and custom textures
vivid vessel
hmmmge
do i need to swap ..
no i dont think so
i dont htink i had the amount of customisations i needed last i checked
glass mortar
zacuwui when
vivid vessel
idk i thought about it for a while but
all i could ever think about was the massive amount of work
and the fact someone else will do it anywya
which is mostly true
mystic berry
be the outlaw's luxthos bro
vivid vessel
ellesmere thing and ayjee thing is what i wanted to do moslty
zinc briar
Lets go guys, i did all boss 99 parse for being in the middle of the table of my guild
Lets nerf outlaw
Make It disappear
I think im craftint a fkn dagger and gonna play 2 buttons class subt
glass mortar
@vivid vessel do u know if theres any addon replacements for the ability cast tracker streamers use to show the buttons they press?
that was a WA wasnt it
glass mortar
does it still work
vivid vessel
i think there is a details thing
vivid vessel
your own casts are not secret
glass mortar
i was gunna say if people r gunna give us VoDs to review having an addon like that for the dummy fight would be helpful
but that requires an easy way to show ur button presses
glass mortar
ya i know many streamers have thingies like this
maybe i'll go see what other people use
vivid vessel
lol
the "outlaw" boss
has a damage amp
well its only 20% tho but
cant have good things bro
noble moon
is gaze of alnseer still bis
glass mortar
ok but what if its a 40s long damage amp zac
and it happens twice, 4.5 minutes apart
vivid vessel
its 20s
vivid vessel
happnes once
glass mortar
o
you know, 4.5 is a multiple of 1.5 so technically we might get a boss that lines up well with prep at least once this expac
huge mega boom cd
frfr
vivid vessel
ye i checked and you cant use prep on the damage amp
its 2min in
and the boss is 4min40
vivid vessel
well it would be bad
glass mortar
ur only getting prep one time a fight if its 4:40s?
crimson scarab
when i have prep and from the first ADR i get stage 2, do I kir the stage 2 or roll with the next adr buff and then kir the new buff?
glass mortar
I believe you hold KiR for the second loaded dice roll if you only rolled a 2 buff
what i dont actually know is if you reroll asap with RtB comes off cd
or wait out the first buff
my gut is you reroll asap because thats way too long to sit on kirs cd
crimson scarab
but if i roll jackpot from 1st loaded dice, wouldnt it make sense to kir it
glass mortar
yea i edited
crimson scarab
okay okay
glass mortar
3 or higher you'd just Kir
crimson scarab
i was thinking the same thing, just wanted to make sure
glass mortar
and waste an LD most likely
crimson scarab
yeah ud waste the 2nd LD
inland acorn
@vivid vessel are you gonna try add ace sound to bte reset or its not possible ?
glass mortar
i think there is some looking into if its worth to roll over a 3 or higher buff if its close to expiring and LD will expire but nothings come of it yet
glass mortar
stage 1 is just bad yea, you wanna do everything u can to avoid it
inland acorn
I swear stage 1 is doing like almost nothing even tho its supposed to increase chance for ss to hit twice
I feel like it does almost opposite lol
keen belfry
all i could ever think about was the massive amount of work
its not worth it, unless people pay you
normal quail
what's the general consensus with prep, are you guys just sending it as soon as everything on cd. Or are you keeping it for specific scenarios?
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> are you gonna try add ace sound to bte reset or its not po...
ye its possible sure
upper hawk
where in the opener do you press prep?
vivid vessel
its an ingame sound so i never used it but
can make a weak aura if you want
i made one for sub alreayd
glass mortar
zac....
idk if i even want the bte sound effect back....
my muscle memory is too tied to firing my gun everytime i hear that reload
i think id mess up every ace proc if i had it
🥹
glass mortar
Our resource economy is just tuned on a very tight cliff and the combo point generation from stage 2 feels mandatory to not burn thru tea like it's ur job
not if u play with ingame sound on sure
i mean ur one that played from an addon
inland acorn
its an ingame sound so i never used it but
didn't your WA pack had it, or was it just blizz sound playing
And now they cucked us out of it
glass mortar
so i could hear it even if i had sound off
inland acorn
vivid vessel
but i had shared one for outalw ye
glass mortar
u literally made a standalone BtE ace proc sound trigger u had to download a sound file for??
i remember setting it up
idk if u ever put it in ur pac tho
i didnt use ur pack just stole the RtB from it
runic gulch
where in the opener do you press prep?
Send first ADR, blade rush, first bte then prep i guess
But then if you get a ton of ace procs, there’s an incentive to hold it and see BtE out till cd which is kinda annoying
And then by that point blade rush is coming off cd again
And by that point it’s like just send prep
upper hawk
i didn't know if it was worht holding that first one until the end of AR so when you used it you could AR into bte
prep isn't on the restless blades, right?
upper hawk
so holding for a few seconds probably doesn' tcost you a use?
runic gulch
I mean yeah you don’t use the 2nd ADR until the first one drops off
runic gulch
You just prep to have it ready
upper hawk
yeah, but if you prep right as the AR ends you'll also reset bte so you can supercharge bte
runic gulch
You lose potential Cdr on it either way, either you have it off of cd with restless blades doing nothing to it, or you get some Cdr off of it for a few globals just to watch it go down the drain when you do prep
Like it’s shit either way
upper hawk
prep isn't affected by cdr is my point
crimson scarab
also ADR doesnt stack
runic gulch
Obviously a second charge would solve everything but that would be good design which is forbidden
restive mango
looking at these talents im just in disbelief they left audacity and hidden opportunity in the tree at all
glass mortar
it wouldnt make sense on cdr
but i think it just doesnt make sense as an outlaw ability so
blizzard just cant let us have what we want so they try to give it to us in a awkward way
restive mango
this reminds me of ret before the dragonflight rework. a lot of awkwardness needing to be pruned from the tree
glass mortar
its supposed to be an awkward attempt at giving AR a second charge
and u can use it like that if any fight warrants it
using it on cd to maximize its value is like 3% dps so
restive mango
yeah ill still drink that garbage since i dont have a choice
vapid void
is it worth crafting rn?
vapid void
its supposed to be an awkward attempt at giving AR a second charge
hey man thanks for the help yesterday btw im starting to pump on my rogue been running alot of m0's
inland acorn
is it worth crafting rn?
you can craft 259 items, without using crests if you're sure of slot you're crafting
glass mortar
nice gz
vapid void
you can craft 259 items, without using crests if you're sure of slot you're craf...
so its worth using 2 sparks for wep?
inland acorn
its probably one of the safiest crafts
since you will be able to recraft it with mythic crests next week
vapid void
its probably one of the safiest crafts
i mean i msitting at a 237 wep right now
inland acorn
Ye, but at the same time
Do you need upgrades rn ?
The answer is no
There is no hard content
But you can probably craft 259 weapon, since like i said
you recraft it next week with mythic crests
for mythic ilvl MH
Or dagger if you're planning multispeccing
upper hawk
nice pin. what's a cruicle
vapid void
im gonna decide whenever my vault slot and next week
flat karma
using it on cd to maximize its value is like 3% dps so
Do you just rip it directly after AR duration is over and bte etc on cd?
glass mortar
sim uses it when AR and BtE are both on cd
BR as well if ur in aoe
thats as much nuance as there is to its usage in sims afaik
in game u can probabably use it a bit more flexibiltiy then that if u need to tho
it is not a high value ability
vapid void
if we roll 1 of 1 is it worth rolling when i get ROB back or do i let it where off then roll again
glass mortar
you roll
dark ember
So the idea is open
AR
RtB
KiR
BtE until it doesn't get refreshed
Prep
BtE again
Wait until AR ends
AR again
?
keen belfry
with prep u dont automatically KIR after AR
keen belfry
and u want to either open with dispatch or snd
midnight ridge
going from 253 mh to hero craft 272 is only 3% dps increase, i'm a bit disappointed
violet swan
guys, what do you recommend to take over the Deft Maneuvers talent for raid cleave build?
upper hawk
if i got (un)lucky to get a hero weapon from delve map. is it more efficient to upgrade it or craft a hero weapon wiht the expectation that i'm crafting a mythic weapon either way
inland acorn
guys, what do you recommend to take over the Deft Maneuvers talent for raid clea...
define raid cleave build
midnight ridge
probably it is a waste of 80 hero crests if you are able to craft mythic crest weapon next week
inland acorn
probably it is a waste of 80 hero crests if you are able to craft mythic crest w...
it is, shouldn't craft anything with hero crests this week
upper hawk
so neither. just use as is and craft a mythic one, use those heroic crests on upgrading other shit
makes sense i guess
violet swan
define raid cleave build
Paladins hc
inland acorn
Idk if it's worth dropping deft on vanguard
your option of putting that point somewhere else is Heavy Hitter or Ace
Which are both
Just bad
violet swan
Idk if it's worth dropping deft on vanguard
I'm asking because of this faq
inland acorn
Like i said idk, you have pretty much only 2 options instead of deft
and both are shit
You could probably try simming 5 min 2target and 3target after and see
2 target because 1 boss is often in narnia doing his cast stuff, so i would consider this as an option to sim
rapid spoke
love the sight lol
copper radish
how yall liking nightmare hunts
vivid vessel
I'm asking because of this faq
i think this is a mistake
should check but i think even on 2t deft was positive
and its free to take
so
2% gain on 2t
and thats not even playing gm
so
upper hawk
so warcraft logs display is just broken right showing all these people not taking full apex talents?
glass mortar
oh right deft literally competes with memes
zac someone was in here last night asking why the bonus cdr talent wasnt proccing on the endboss with giga downtime
upper hawk
the only reason would be if the energy cost wasn't worth it on 2 targets but i guess it is
glass mortar
looked at logs, it was proccing, they just didnt notice because the cdr was so shit they assumed it would be active all the time when not attacking something
vivid vessel
because it proc randomly before that
glass mortar
lucid sparrow
glass mortar
good talent
lucid sparrow
vivid vessel
and that
glass mortar
nope it wasnt even preproccing
jolly geyser
how yall liking nightmare hunts
its something
glass mortar
its just bad
glass mortar
is it only 10
glass mortar
they always do cdr weird
100% cdr for 5s would be 5s of cdr
200% should be double that
yeye
glass mortar
yes
upper hawk
it's a mystery. nobody knows and nobody can know
glass mortar
no ur right
glass mortar
over 5s u remove 15s of cd
but over 5 u would a removed 5 already
so the value of the talent is 10s
copper radish
its something
free heroic crests are nice
jolly geyser
yee
upper hawk
where do you get heroic crests?
vivid vessel
?
upper hawk
from hunts?
vivid vessel
or??
copper radish
where do you get heroic crests?
nightmare prey, ?? delve too
upper hawk
nightmare is champion right?
vivid vessel
nightmare?
glass mortar
nightmare!!!
vivid vessel
it gives champ
oh well
i think
weekly nightmare
maybe
the ones on map
i dont remember what these gave you
jolly geyser
2 or 3
vivid vessel
but the random nightamer give champ
vapid void
is cruicible trinket worth grabbing
jolly geyser
ya
vivid vessel
copper radish
nightmare is champion right?
the one quests it gives rewards 20 heroic crests
upper hawk
the do 3 of them one? didn't notice. i just wanted the delve map thing
glass mortar
hows the scaling on nightmare hunts
do the npcs get any more interesting then auto attack/spell bar merchants
vivid vessel
no
glass mortar
ugh
vivid vessel
but you have to kidney a bit
well
they are more interesting than the ?? boss tho
they drop aoes
and have some mechs sometimes
glass mortar
why dont they give us some timewalking/plunderstorm npcs
with actual mechanics and shit to dodge
jolly geyser
also gotta kill something randomly
glass mortar
it doesnt need to be huge
vivid vessel
like there is one that will grip you in and then do a frontal
glass mortar
frontal cone
jolly geyser
critter do
glass mortar
wait are they the same npcs
vivid vessel
and you have to target swap to totem
glass mortar
just with higher scaling
glass mortar
iver already fought a hard hunt that has an instant root totem
that roots u in an aoe
and one that grips u into a frontal
upper hawk
yeah, it's the same set of like 30 total npcs possible fo rhunts
glass mortar
ugh
upper hawk
just 4 random ones each week
glass mortar
i mean thats fine
but they should gain mechanics
as u scale difficulty up
not just hp and ability damage
so lame
havent faced one engaging hunt npc yet
ig i shouldnt expect too much from the creators of this seasons delve boss tho
i hope they have someone who likes solo/world content more working on the big mega delve
i guess the main difficulty mod is the debuff u get perma in the zone while ur on the hunt scaling up with hunt difficulty
that feels so lame tho
glass mortar
they are deff more interesting than the delve boss tho
nah there was some cute delve bosses, but most of them were less interesting then these guys yea
upper hawk
for me the main difficulty is if you afk for 10 seconds some dipshit will yell at you to kill something and you die and reset progress
fair iron
i never did last delve boss, but this one is cringe asf yeah; not an ounce of interesting gameplay
glass mortar
kyveza was honestly impressivly hard for a solo challenge
fair iron
like a dumbed down mt
glass mortar
even her most nerfed version
usually solo challenges get lobotmized by gear or blizzard before the seasons over
i was pretty happy with how they left her ?? as a genuine challenge the whole season
formal pawn
my god marksman is doing some numbers
vivid vessel
nah there was some cute delve bosses, but most of them were less interesting the...
i mean the one from this tier lol
glass mortar
but its rare we get solo content like that
glass mortar
oh i thought u just meant general delve bosses yea
vivid vessel
nono
glass mortar
not the specific guy
fair iron
outlaw mage tower was fuckin fun on launch
glass mortar
mhm
hoary mountain
With delves, what role are you guys running Valerria as? Need to get to t11 and dk if should do tank or healer with tricks of the trade
glass mortar
tank is made for healers and is a trap
dont ever do it
the tank npcs have zero sustain and do zero damage they just hold threat real well
they have a buff that gives them a damage amp based on how much you've healed them
cinder relic
<@96834520417828864> you there?
What's up
vivid vessel
What's up
ye you said earlier that dragon boss would be more 2t in mythic
why is that
is the phasing time based?
and then you end up longer in p3 or smth
cinder relic
So the boss on heroic is one in the air one on the ground
When they are in the air, they are like magnets, if you try and stack them close, the other one flies away
vivid vessel
yuh
cinder relic
After 2nd intermission on heroic, they are both in the ground
Where u can stack them
On mythic, they start on the ground
So u can just stack them
cinder relic
Duno
vivid vessel
weird
balmy topaz
Did they fix the trinket in sims yet
cinder relic
What is the trinket
vivid vessel
just vibe everything bro
balmy topaz
Crucible
cinder relic
Was fixed on Monday
vivid vessel
whichb one
balmy topaz
Cruicle of Erratic Energies
Just a heads up, with this trinket getting fixed in sims, simc is defaulting you to having all the roleplay based upgrades. To upgrade the trinket, you have to go to the Quartermaster, and do the weekly quest to get a currency item which allows you to interact with a forge to spend points on a talent tree. You also get a currency item from doing the singularity event. The first 4 points highlighted here provide buffs while inside the Voidspire.
This what guy posted yesterday
cinder relic
The vessel trinket is like antenna
But worse is what Ive heard
Like it doesn't chase you?
glass mortar
thought it was one of those "should be shit for us but sims good cause its overstatted af"
vivid vessel
wait
cinder relic
i saw mastery and was kinda discussed
Trinket is extremely overtuned but u have to play around it
cunning lintel
No spelling, only bones to roll.
cinder relic
It's one of those trinkets
vivid vessel
whats the icon
balmy topaz
vivid vessel
crazy bro !
balmy topaz
Does this void concole stuff actually effect damage outside the void zone?
@cinder relic
vivid vessel
i think so cause its in raidbot
glass mortar
i thought it only impacted the raids and dungeons in the zone
cinder relic
Does this void concole stuff actually effect damage outside the void zone?
Afaik no
glass mortar
u can turn the console stuff off in raidbots i believe
glass mortar
i mean there is a raid and m+ dungeons in the zone no?
its probably pretty strong for them
cinder relic
It's an okay trinket for prr season
glass mortar
or r they not in this season (the dungeons)
vivid vessel
what does this mean
glass mortar
i guess its ilvl cap will make it fall off eventually anyway
vivid vessel
wtf is +1 sparkle
glass mortar
it means it was recrafted to remove an embellishment
thats what the sparkling powder gives it
cinder relic
Sparkle is an embellishment that doesn't count as an embellishment
cinder relic
So u add sparkle to remove an embellishment
vivid vessel
i think i need to sleep before raid or i will die
i have been playing for 12h straight
fried my brain
glass mortar
zac when hes gotta get his hunts and slop world content in so he sets his alarm for 5 am
truly a man of culture, i respect it
this is the real wow gamer hours, starting next week its back to the boring treadmill
🥱
proven ocean
what does this mean
It means ur a noob
glass mortar
shame we had no dirt to dig in this time around tho
eternal hound
Question. I see in our bis gear we have a dagger and a sword. Is this normal?
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.
It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.
eternal hound
Okay. Thank you
glass mortar
where ur debuff/buffs are all paused and removed
vivid vessel
np
glass mortar
and the hunt npc cant jumpscare u
def had that happen when i went for a bio break before tho
eternal hound
...I have to switch loot spec for this don't I have
glass mortar
if u want a dagger to drop yes