outlaw

[proven ocean]

i mean

[sterile dune]

I have to use weak aura shit

?

[primal holly]

you can do it with the in game ui 🙂

[proven ocean]

assa should have consistent cleave and aoe and st but

[primal holly]

I track it with the 'Tracked Bars' part of the UI - moved it to the middle of my screen

[proven ocean]

sub should have massive st and funnel

outlaw is consistent ig

but

assa should have burst aoe if it wants to via talent options

and consistent cleave if it wants to aswell

which is passive ig

[polar kelp]

It's super easy now, just use the track buff....if the purple one comes up it's bad, all others are KiR

[proven ocean]

idk im cooked i cant suggest good options havent played in a while

[primal holly]

there's a small technicality where you don't KiR if you're at 2 and you're gonna get at least a double roll next

[proven ocean]

all i want is rogue to be good

[primal holly]

e.g. in opener with preparation

[sterile dune]

Assa is the deeps spec, thats why its called assasination, we making sure the guy dies even if he gets away he bleeds out. Sub should be heavy single target burst and dps. And outlaw should be cleave n shid

From an identity point of view

[proven ocean]

wtf is deeps spec tho

[craggy barn]

deep in the ass spec

[sterile dune]

Deeeps, dps

[jolly aspen]

deep in the shit cus it sucks

[sterile dune]

Big deeps

[craggy barn]

ass so bad its ass twice

[autumn wasp]

Anyone know if there is a way to show 2 action bars for stealth rather than just 1?

[proven ocean]

so like

[polar kelp]

Yea for sure....but you're only using prep on lust timer usually, so depending on boss it could be at the end. But then it also depends how long boss fight lasts too cause you could have 2 prep lol

[proven ocean]

u mean sub and outlaw should just do low dps

and be there for RP purposes?

[craggy barn]

also wb zeross i guess

or are u just here to yap

[proven ocean]

ya

[sterile dune]

Imma hit u up tmrw for dis shid

[proven ocean]

i am

here to yap*

not playing

[primal holly]

yeah it's a rare use case optimisation for sure @polar kelp

[craggy barn]

gotcha

[fathom bramble]

I think as long as obr can do the sin rotation so well it would seem weird to ever let it be meaningfully ahead of the other 2 specs

[craggy barn]

how good is obr

for sin

[fathom bramble]

if you can obr to 95% of what sin does then sin being ahead of law/sub lets obr players do more damage than real ones

[primal holly]

i need to optimise outlaw as much as i can to stop my guild forcing me to go sub

[fathom bramble]

consistently and easily

[sterile dune]

Why ppl going sub?

For what

Mythics?

[primal holly]

for mythic prog it's probably better but that is a controversial topic in these parts haha

for most fights, not all

[fathom bramble]

it was 94% according to the whispyr wowhead guide iirc, but I can't find that info within the guide now 🤔

[sterile dune]

Isnt outlaw comparable though cuz op cleave?

[craggy barn]

whispyr hiding the sims again

doing the lords work by sandbagging like other classes

[sterile dune]

Or u only care about st in mythics?

And aoe

[primal holly]

for mythic raid it differs boss on boss

[sterile dune]

Hmm

I guess optimisations would help u

What do they want u to be better in with mythics? St? Try going for a more st build for talents

Get a dagger for offhand, cuz someone said its bette

U know stuff like that

But only if the dagger is not lower ilevel

[narrow pasture]

out of the tested bosses so far, only the paladins fight has sustained cleave

there wont be much to cleave in this one ;d

[vivid forge]

Some bosses are targetswap to kill X add and thats shit for outlaw too

[fathom bramble]

looks like ~92.5% now

[cinder relic]

Yes

I said it awhile ago but passive cleave across the board got a lot weaker

Sub is one of the bigger victims of this type of change

Sub loses damage for going trickster already, so ur like, double losing

[narrow pasture]

watch NA do stuff tomorrow evening, decide on spec wed morning based on results

[cinder relic]

Basically

My money this tier though is not sub

[narrow pasture]

i think law ST has potential

my humble observations of running two sets of M0s

[craggy barn]

outlaw sims better than the other 2 in st, and has "free" cleave with bf! it will be the prog king this tier
even exile is crafting sword!

[narrow pasture]

sims aint simming too well this time round

[fathom bramble]

I mean

it does seem to sim lower than sub on st rn

[narrow pasture]

theyre a bit sus

[cinder relic]

Sub does do more st, with deathstalker

But it trades that st for dealing horrid cleave

Like u basically trade all of it

[tender wedge]

where are we placing our bets

[hallow swan]

yo guys this is a m0 breakdown and I wanted to ask, is bte supposed to be higher overall than dispatch like previous seasons?

[cinder relic]

Bte should be higher

[hallow swan]

ty mate

[placid blaze]

!offhand

[soft abyss]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.

It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.

[cinder relic]

It's really hard to make a call when the specs are genuinely tuned kinda close

[fathom bramble]

either spec will be good/fine

the differences won't really matter that much this tier imo

[covert idol]

How bad is it for Outlaw to run 2 daggers contra a hard hitting mainhand for mastery etc?

[fathom bramble]

you lose access to primary rotation spells

so very very bad

[covert idol]

x)

mb

[craggy barn]

yea very hard to tell this time around
im just gonna send outlaw bc its my alt this season anyways

[wintry solar]

Okay but

Nvm I don't have the energy to meme

[craggy barn]

until i start soaking mythic daggers

[frail veldt]

I havent played much of new sub so I only know rumors but is it easier to perform near your theoretical max as sub than it is as outlaw?

[loud blaze]

Grappling Hook > Shadowstep

[frail veldt]

current outlaw, though slowed down, does still have some intricacies to get to your "sim" dps

[craggy barn]

yes

[fathom bramble]

what makes outlaw so hard to reach that theoretical max is a combination of procs and being GCD capped

any spec missing one or both of these is likely easier to achieve it with

very likely

[craggy barn]

sub has 0 energy issues during its damage
and its core damaging rotation is incredibly simple

[cinder relic]

I keep posted on all the channels for prog coming up, but every day ppl are asking for help on how to play, despite it being "braindead"

So idk

It's not rocket science but it still has stuff

[fathom bramble]

I mean it's all relative

[craggy barn]

yes stil stuff, but it fs is simpler than outlaw to minmax

[fathom bramble]

I wouldn't call any wow spec braindead though

[cinder relic]

I agree

[frail veldt]

wows a hard game

when you actually take a step back

[fathom bramble]

unless we get a spec that you can legit play as obr

[frail veldt]

lot of knowledge that long time players take for granted

[craggy barn]

there have been times were some specs have actually been mega simple no thinking

[fathom bramble]

then maybe we have 1 version of 1 spec that is 'braindead'

[craggy barn]

but most of damage comes from other gains alongside rotation

[fathom bramble]

also when it comes to teaching people WoW I think it's really easy for the perception of high skill players to get incredibly warped

[craggy barn]

movement and such

[fickle relic]

worth changing my trinket for the epic one? my haste is 20% and will go down to 17% with the epic one, so i'm not sure

[fathom bramble]

even just interacting with a resource that you shouldn't spend until Y amount but could technically spend early is something difficult to some players

and if you don't teach/help people a lot it's easy to forget that

[gaunt phoenix]

Doubt it but it's what raidbots is made to determine for you

[fickle relic]

i'll get to it then i guess

[cinder relic]

Wow is a really complicated game lol

It's got a lot of moving parts and pieces

It's like if I was to tell u deadlock is easy, cuz TK me it isol

But like, to 99% of people the game has so much shit going on with it

Even just doing the rotation properly is a big ask

Then u gotta kick, move, use defensives, handle mechanics if they target you by both understanding what the mechanic does, and then knowing what tool to use to answer it specifically

[fossil lintel]

so press one button rotation thing and blame healer, got it

[zinc briar]

should we start buying flasks for wednesday?

[rocky canopy]

primal council? nah sub was cracked

i topped our prog kill

[zinc briar]

class tuning!

https://www.wowhead.com/news/update-to-season-1-class-tuning-more-mage-and-ret-paladin-changes-380806?utm_source=discord-webhook

outlaw buffs!

[fickle relic]

diabolical

[zinc briar]

nah impossible

[fickle relic]

there aren't any

[fathom bramble]

Guess i am misremembering

[nocturne shuttle]

so how far behind is HO these days? didnt even see it as a viable build

[fickle relic]

starcraft 2 gets more changes than outlaw

not even talking about warcraft 3

[cinder relic]

It's not that far behind I think? There's just no reason to even highlight it anymore

There's no weird rotational shifts or playstyle changes with either build at the moment so

[cinder relic]

What changes do u want to outlaw

These aren't a gameplay altering patch period

[amber forum]

I have a question about how the Super Charge talent works now.
I've noticed that the “charged” combos are 1 and 2. Are these charged combo points only for BtE? But in that case, if I use BtE with charged combo 1, would the damage from BtE be the same as if I used 3 CP?

[rocky canopy]

ill take 5% damage

[cinder relic]

It goes over the cap

So you just ignore it and treat it as a passive bonus

But yes, what you described, is what happens

But u also don't just hold for bte

U just kinda just play the game, it's just a passive damage increase to how Ur playing already

[nocturne shuttle]

where is the HO build i wanna sim it

4fun

[amber forum]

Ohhh i see

[amber forum]

Thanks!

[worthy surge]

its a combination of preparation and execution but yeah to be "good" at WoW takes a lot of work in a way

[charred fox]

I don’t see any unless youre a fire outlaw or ret outlaw

[worthy surge]

I would truly just like to not get nerfed a buff would be nice but im definitely not expecting one would love to dodge any kind of nerf though

[mystic berry]

dw pal blizzard got you

they will nerf bf

and bufff autos

[worthy surge]

it has been the trend that theyre nerfing aoe

I could definitely see it happen

[mystic berry]

they love their "lets nerf one thing and buff another"

the thing of the moment is aoe

[worthy surge]

Cant wait till tomorrow so theres actually stuff to do

[fickle relic]

Well, if it isn't then some damage buffs for trickster for it to be playable again would be nice. Infinite tricks that come with it are very handy. Also definetly capstone buffs, killing spree can get its' damage increased. That garbage -5 sec bte talent should get buffed too, but if it's considered gameplay, oh well. Outlaw could definetly use some +5% overall buff

[mighty pivot]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oUdWPSq94rtuPxcZYioFPn dunno if the HO builds I picked are ideal tbh but I wouldn't expect major differences

[mystic berry]

I dont feel like im ready, kinda sucks

people are coming here posting 90k dslice sims and I stay here with my dinky winky 70k

[worthy surge]

kek what buffs are they using

with every buff my dslice sim is over 100k but thats bs right

like im not gettting every buff rofl

[mystic berry]

you are not helping my anxiety m8

[worthy surge]

lmao ive been playing too much bro dont feel bad cuz uve got stuff going on

[glass mortar]

i mean not to be mean, but if ur dslice sim isnt pushing 110k you wont even get invites to +2s

on god

[worthy surge]

plenty of catch up mechanics

[glass mortar]

ur season might already be over

[mystic berry]

its over

[glass mortar]

[mystic berry]

im done

[glass mortar]

if it makes u feel any better i started out the week at 236 ilvl and after doing my full round of m0s im now 238 ilvl from upgrading vet gear

i still have 60% blue items

i have gotten 3 pants, 4 boots and 2 copies of the same trinket from m0

[mighty pivot]

that can happen if you don't get haste items

[mystic berry]

I got like, 4 pieces in 2 weeks, and 2 of them were pity trades

[glass mortar]

im at 18% haste flasking haste

[mighty pivot]

I'm like 22.5%-24.5% depending on trinket without consumes but still plenty blues

[mystic berry]

forget that, im simming 57k at 240 ilvl , I might aswell skip the tier

[worthy surge]

im like 22.5% post consumes

and that seems like enough

[worthy surge]

single target?

[mystic berry]

dslice bro

[worthy surge]

theres no way

[mystic berry]

I kid you not

[worthy surge]

youre missing enchants or something

[charred fox]

85k Dslice at 235 ilvl something is wrong bro

[mighty pivot]

link sim

[worthy surge]

ya theres no way ur 57k at 240

[mystic berry]

oh I am

[worthy surge]

unless youre legit doing everything wrong idk

[mystic berry]

I have some random ass enchants from leveling enchanting lmao

but no way the enchants make like 30k dps

I will link it

[worthy surge]

sim yourself with optimal enchants and gems

[mystic berry]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hxrZhJLsCEWd2EVJuj14iK

[mighty pivot]

enchants aren't worth 50% dps

[charred fox]

Are you able to change gems and enchants from the website or do I have to go put all them bitches on in game

[worthy surge]

you can do it on raidbots

[charred fox]

Sweet 🤙

[mystic berry]

Lemme see

[mighty pivot]

ok that's 0 buffs to begin with which makes a big difference

[left sequoia]

or wrong sim config

[gaunt phoenix]

Slice number is not really relevant other than to compare gear

Ive never thought about if my number is high or low

[mystic berry]

ok simmed with better enchants and gems

[mighty pivot]

60k-ish slice at that ilvl with 0 buffs consums seems normal

[mystic berry]

its a 10% difference

[fluid meadow]

dsclice nobuff is just wrong

[gaunt phoenix]

I'm surprised they didn't change that name

[mighty pivot]

what if you run double spriest, prevoker, bdk setup

[worthy surge]

oh shit alnseer nerf lmao

[worthy surge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uh5YSWm63Lnyzz7BnheTNb

[fluid meadow]

i mean, my full buff st is 53k, nobuff dslice is 58k

[worthy surge]

go upgrade the two items I upgraded

[mystic berry]

wtf

[worthy surge]

one is free

your trinket

[gaunt phoenix]

Skyfury is like 8% dps

That's more than like every rotation error combined

[mighty pivot]

all buffs makes a huge difference

[worthy surge]

also wasnt simming himself using M+ spec

in the dslice

lol

[mighty pivot]

surely they fixed the proc flags for crucible with those notes, right?

[gaunt phoenix]

I was told they are

[mystic berry]

yeah, but it was HH instead of sleight of hand and prep instead of second summarily dispatched

[gaunt phoenix]

Prep vs 2 SD is basically the same

Prep should be better in coordinated keys

[keen belfry]

Even better than ps if and only if at 0 fth stacks?

[gaunt phoenix]

Lol I mean you know what I mean

[keen belfry]

And what’s SD can you please type
It out

Outlaw has shadow dance again?

[mystic berry]

thank you for the attention grimm, btw

[gaunt phoenix]

sumnarikly diospattyd

[worthy surge]

np bud

[mighty pivot]

||Suggon Deez ||

[worthy surge]

mind goblin

[mighty pivot]

imagine if they bring back SD to redeem HO

[worthy surge]

I dont really want another cd to manage

[mighty pivot]

it will be on RB and you'd have to maintain it

[gaunt phoenix]

Sd is automatically casted by ambush

[mighty pivot]

what if

hear me out

ambush puts you in subterfuge when it procs opportunity

[near pulsar]

We don't use ambush from stealth right?

[mighty pivot]

you never ambush without hidden opportunity talented

[gaunt phoenix]

Correct

[near pulsar]

Thanks folks. Good luck, have fun with season start!

[midnight robin]

Feels big sad to see killing spree not making the cut for fatebound builds

Such a satisfying button to press

[zinc briar]

Did u buy flaks and other consumables for raid?

I think that wednesday will be more expensive

[midnight robin]

It will. Get mats for your weapon crafts too

[keen belfry]

Subtlety has trinket pin before solo does

Gg solo

[polar kelp]

Lol are you on crack? The button sucks. Ruins your entire flow of the spec and does no damage....but atleast it doesn't kill you anymore

[cinder relic]

Outlaw player learns other people like something different than them

[midnight robin]

Weirdly aggressive lol the button is fun and has a sick sound effect.

[polar kelp]

Nope not allowed

Haha yea sorry, I guess that was kind of aggro. Just ptsd from last xpac

[midnight robin]

Hahah yea man we can move now, would be nice if it were viable. Ah well

[slim hare]

to be fair it was the worst button in the entire game by far

[midnight robin]

Blizz giveth and Blizz taketh

[radiant wyvern]

na ks is awful

[faint pendant]

protection warrior execute or survival hunter hatchet toss

[frail veldt]

Neither of those are even close

[slim hare]

ty

[faint pendant]

they never press them and they are baseline abilities

[frail veldt]

Suicide epilepsy button

[slim hare]

bro

even something that does nothing

is better than epilepsy + suicide button

[midnight robin]

Old KS was 15% chance per combo point spent to just kill yourself so I get it lol

[frail veldt]

Sub has shuriken toss

[frail veldt]

Exactly

Genuinely the worst designed ability for the modern version of the game

[lime lake]

yeah i dont think any button can compete with ks

[frail veldt]

It was cool back in 2013 or whatever

[midnight robin]

But in its current state with free movement including the ability to grapple hook in the middle of it, it's kinda sick

[frail veldt]

It would be fine if it didn't hit targets randomly lol

[pliant wind]

still i prefer slices with a sword more than just pistol shotting things randomly

[slim hare]

yeah current state is fine

dont love it but at least its playable

[glass mortar]

it actively makes ure damage profile worse if u have it talented

its more damaging to the profile then old kspree was

but at least it doesnt kill u

[lime lake]

being dead is a lot more damaging to your damage profile

[midnight robin]

It's just hilarious that after making it so you don't have to kill yourself to press it, you still don't wanna press it

[slim hare]

rework is a miss

happens

[glass mortar]

New kspree is balls

thats what happens when u make a new spell and then dont give it any iteration tho

[worthy surge]

theyll buff it and nerf blade flurry

[midnight robin]

Current tuning of new kspree is balls*

[glass mortar]

maybe one day in the future they will iterate on it

and it could be cool

[slim hare]

imo as long as its a channel

it wont be good

just goes againt crack cocaine spec that is outlaw

[midnight robin]

That's a cool idea actually lol just make it a button you hit and then continue your rotation as normal while it's going off

[plush grove]

How big of a percent increase is the tier set for outlaw?

[worthy surge]

4.5% with 4 piece something like that

[plush grove]

thats ST buff percentage or like overall

[worthy surge]

I think that was for ST but im not sure

sub benefits way more from tier than we do

dude pot prices have been ramping holy

I wish I were a pot alch rn I messed up

[hasty fable]

Patch notes:
Trickster: Unseen Blade damage increased by 20%.
Trickster: Nimble Flurry effect reduced to 50% of listed attack damage (was 65%).
Trickster: Clever Combatant crit bonus for Shuriken Storm reduced to 10% (was 15%).

Does that Unseen Blade buff apply across the board? Like for Outlaw Trickster too?

[worthy surge]

just sub

[hasty fable]

ah ok

[pure folio]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nJ6nSSMjzipbhUDqM7xfVX

@fathom lion

[worthy surge]

if I were alliance I woulda ran mechagnome

I thought about going tauren that seems kinda fun

[tight kernel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[snow hill]

I find it cruel and unusual that Undead is the second worst race.

[worthy surge]

yeah D: I was undead until I race changed

[snow hill]

What to?

[polar chasm]

yo, been sub all the xpac so far, wanna test out outlaw. is it ok to use dagger OH?

[fathom bramble]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.

It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.

[polar chasm]

tyty

[worthy surge]

haranir

I miss being undead though

id switch if it was a little better

[leaden sonnet]

Shouldve been male panda

[worthy surge]

gross never

tauren before panda

[prisma lantern]

Or male KulTiran chain-kini.

[worthy surge]

mechagnome all the way if I play alliance

love being a gnome

[leaden sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/shufuspanda-shufusdance-pandadance-pandaren-dance-wow-panda-dance-gif-13868568054864870652

[turbid wren]

Am I crazy or they don’t have any voice lines?

[worthy surge]

idk /silly works

[turbid wren]

Last I had my game sound on was in BFA to hear what Zandalaris sound like, and I changed to Haranir and turned it on and they don’t say anything for example when you’re out of range

Or when an ability isn’t ready

Was that just classic/old wow? Hahaha

[worthy surge]

yeah he doesnt say "im out of range"

[turbid wren]

Hahaha

I think they forgot to add it

[daring yoke]

Guys did they update the class tuning notes yet? I think they just forgot to put outlaws in

[obsidian mirage]

I'm just coming back to the game after not play ing for a while. I feel like I never have any energy though?

[worthy surge]

need haste

[obsidian mirage]

I'm only level 73 and speeding through delves to level, but it feels like I press 3 buttons then nothing

[left sequoia]

Guys, for droptimizer purpose, are we simming aoe or single build?

[prisma lantern]

Both.

Don't really know what the role is at this stage and how fights tuned. Both important, TBH.

Never know until we see bosses get pulled on live.

[worthy surge]

you probably need more haste and youre missing talents but once you get both those things your energy is mostly fine

[obsidian mirage]

What's the typical haste we want?

[plush basalt]

weird question but was doing some simming as im trying to decide between rogue and warlock.. doing a sim between full and no buffs, rogue losses 15k dps single target, my lock only loses 7k. Is there a buff in particlar thats big for outlaw?

[worthy surge]

feels a lot better at 15% but youre aiming for close to 25% optimally

[obsidian mirage]

Damn, so just gonna be haste starved for a patch sounds like?

[prisma lantern]

Rogue in general gets a lot from raid buffs. Skyfury is pretty huge TBH. As is lust.

[worthy surge]

if you mean while leveling sure... but once youre 90 theres a lot of ways to meet the haste requirement

[prisma lantern]

Can always play around with order you take talents, too. Might feel better to take energy talents first.

Broadly though every spec feels kinda bad / wonky before end game.

[worthy surge]

idk my buddy loved leveling as sub rofl

kept talking to me about it

[obsidian mirage]

I did reorder some things to get energy, really just thistle tea, and since I'm not constantly in combat its enough. I'm just thinking once I get to M+ or a raid, seems like energy would be rough

[worthy surge]

yeah thistle tea is more than enough for questing if ur spamming dungeons itll probably feel bad

but just questing thistle tea helps you basically never run out of energy

[fickle relic]

how good is this trinket?

[prisma lantern]

Energy honestly not terribly on ol with some haste.

[gaunt phoenix]

for outlaw, it is battle shout + monk debuff + skyfury

Lust is okay

[plush basalt]

Im just a bit surprised how much difference it was, it was like 42k down to 27k (in m+ build that is_

[final pagoda]

anyone found any addon to manage the automatic glows from blizzard? by default, blizzard glows at 3x opp

[gaunt phoenix]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fickle relic]

it's not even listed in the trinket tier list, it can't be that bad, can it?

[final pagoda]

also any way to track supercharger buff?

[gaunt phoenix]

Crit is good

Hard to go wrong

[gaunt phoenix]

Wangbar will see it

Idk the specifics of how to capture it

[final pagoda]

I have wangbar, not sure I see that

prob some opt-in settings?

[gaunt phoenix]

It's probably white color

Open setting and change charged cps to a blue color maybe

[vivid vessel]

Guys

They just aura buffed Aug by 13%

What's that meme

[keen belfry]

do u have supercharged points? u have to have super charger and press ar

[hollow temple]

tier was nerfed tho right

i heard somewhere aug 2p was giga stonkest tier in the game for raid or something

[fresh acorn]

el robot is not casting br in opener, is this bc no tier set?

[hollow temple]

supposedly those changes are a slight net nerf to it

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, it was a prepatch thing, technically you can skip BR on ST if you are overcapping energy

it doesnt matter much

[hollow temple]

https://klipy.com/gifs/evoker-dragon

[vivid vessel]

Idk I stopped reading after the first line

For ragebait

[glass mortar]

zac....

what if its outlaw tier zac... what if we have a guy in the race tomorrow

is it possible

what if they played outlaw for all of herioc just to swap sub the moment mythic opens

[worthy surge]

they play outlaw in heroic so it gets nerfed

so they can switch to sub and a freshly buffed sin

[lament locust]

yo @vivid vessel hows ui coming along, can i grab your ayije config?

[vivid vessel]

I will finish it for tonight

[vivid vessel]

Sub sims higher than outlaw btw

Let that sink in

[glass mortar]

zac.....

sims dont mean anything zac..

[vivid vessel]

Then I will see people tweeting "sims in 2026 " like it was irrelevant

But I play outlaw buddy

I know

[glass mortar]

we scale so hard now how could it not be outlaw tier...

[vivid vessel]

Yes

Frfr

[glass mortar]

o n g

[jovial dock]

anoyne have a string for OG combo oints instead of this one

[elder roost]

yo are we crafting dagger offhands yet or waiting?

[cinder relic]

How could manaforge be a sub tier it was simming so low

[near rock]

but but the sims !

[shut lichen]

At least Vanguard is an outlaw likely fight

[tulip walrus]

zac, is the WA UI no longer updated?

I'm still waiting

[haughty wigeon]

Outlaw

Expert Duelist - Also reduces damage taken by 2%
Combat Stamina - Should also provide extra energy

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

This is all that’s needed for outlaw to be good

Fr fr

[vivid vessel]

You mean to tell me even when simming low it overcome outlaw and now it sims high

Holy shmokerino

Sims are so useless !

Noob tweet btw guy I do not approve

[cinder relic]

alright

[vivid vessel]

Gg

You lost your touch

[cinder relic]

When we have another ST patchwork raid I'll start taking those charts srsly

[vivid vessel]

i mean again

i think they are irrelevant for most things

i just thing its a good indicator of how good outlaw is gonna do

because of how outlaw works

if you see outlaw sim the same as sub, you know that in real fights where burst etc will have value

its not gonna be as good

[cinder relic]

all I know is the 2nd last boss of the raid is a 2+ target fight, perma

I don't care about sims

Sub loses all of its cleave and aoe to go deathstalker

[random stirrup]

muh deathstalker cleave (it's ahead of trickster on 2target)

[vivid vessel]

tbf

just checking rn

but

ouitlaw is only 7% ahead of sub

in 2 target

not that impressive either

[vivid vessel]

is it

its not in my sim

[shut lichen]

What about ass?

[vivid vessel]

maybe i have wrong apl

[cinder relic]

ass does about as much damage on 3 targets, as outlaw does on 2

[shut lichen]

[cinder relic]

But it is undersimming slightly

[vivid vessel]

I mean assa is simming at like

80k rn

[random stirrup]

[cinder relic]

it gains about 2-3k with fixes

[vivid vessel]

i wouldnt take any assa sim serious

[shut lichen]

Not sure that slightly is making any waves

Well time to play with vibes on the line

[vivid vessel]

i did have wrong apl

well its only slighty ahead

[shut lichen]

Thank God I'm EU so the NA guys can tell me what's what

[shut lichen]

Hold on I'm sorry u saiddp 80k?

My brain just woke up

[vivid vessel]

93 now

they have leveled up

[cinder relic]

Give assa a good kill timer and itll go up ofc

Sub will be solid on a fight like nexus king for sure tho

Boss gets an amp in intermission

But hes like 3rd/4th boss

ITs really hard to gaugue how hard this raid is even going to be

[random stirrup]

do u not consider beloren a burst fight

[cinder relic]

More so than most tiers I have no fucking idea whats happening

[harsh forge]

we get a .5 rework anyway where they accidentally reinvent ace subterfuge window dw

[random stirrup]

don't you want to explode the egg so that you potentially skip a cycle

[cinder relic]

Its like basically full patchwork

[shut lichen]

Got like 2 shitters and that's it

The twin dragons are low key patchwork

[cinder relic]

Not low key

Just is

[shut lichen]

Cause there is a lot of chanes to the game at once?

[cinder relic]

No just like rogue is kinda balanced, all the specs do different things, and the end game encounters are sort of diverse in what they are asking from u

[shut lichen]

Well it's to accommodate anyone who mentions boomies or dev evokes etc,

[cinder relic]

Its not like last tiere where u have like 5 burst aoe fights

where Sub is just literal perfect jesus

[shut lichen]

Ah true

So ur saying outlaw has some fights

[cinder relic]

Is that just cuz its ST number is that high, like u dont even bother doing bp do u

[shut lichen]

[cinder relic]

I'm very much in the camp of, paladin is an outlaw fight if u can play the spec

[shut lichen]

A fight*

[cinder relic]

Now if u can play the spec is a question mark

But then how hard is that fight, how hard is the raid, is rogue even brought to that fight, can u even leverage outlaw if u crafted a dagger

[shut lichen]

It's having a good 1 hander for me atm that's my issue

[shut lichen]

From testing it was aight, but obviously things change

[random stirrup]

yes you bp on 2 as ds

[cinder relic]

Oh its so over

Get ready to pick up a sword

[vivid vessel]

why

what does that change which button you press

[shut lichen]

DS sub damn

[cinder relic]

DS sub on a council target swap boss

[random stirrup]

yeah fuck ds frfr

[vivid vessel]

trickster sims 0.9% under ds

this ds thing is kinda fake anywya

[random stirrup]

i wonder if ppl know how good no parry is

a lot of these fights you just get forced in front of boss

[vivid vessel]

0.7%

like

idk

[random stirrup]

can you link this

[vivid vessel]

and on 3 target trickster is ahead by 4% apparently

so if you play ds you are a bit of a trolle

[vivid vessel]

no

personal private sims

i dont link

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gvYGGw5svdnRkPK8LZXEJt

[desert tendon]

copium sims

[vivid vessel]

i mean idk what this yap about ds is, seems fake to me

[desert tendon]

can we evaluate the no parry raid buff %

[random stirrup]

"raid buff"

[vivid vessel]

ye

its like

very good

[desert tendon]

Very good isnt a percentage mister Zacerino

[vivid vessel]

can open a raid and you check parry on each guy

[cinder relic]

they fixed that

[vivid vessel]

what

they did ?

[cinder relic]

ya in omega

[random stirrup]

no parry hasnt been raid wide since tww3 bruv

[silk dirge]

Even more outlaw stocks

[desert tendon]

they did late in S2 if i remember correclty

[cinder relic]

Id be shilling sub genuinely if it still existed

LOL

Like not even kappa

[vivid vessel]

i forgot about it

its fine

[random stirrup]

does this have the overrides

it doesnt look like it unless i am smoothbrained

[vivid vessel]

ah shit i forgot to resim with overrides i think

the 3 target one i did had it

one sec

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aLUzYWkHgskdrmyEqhE2QY nvm then

trickster get mogged

[random stirrup]

ye

[vivid vessel]

trickster wins the 3 target tho so

idk kinda depends

how much the fight is 3 vs 2

looks more like 3 than 2 no

[random stirrup]

idk ds is so cooked to play too

[cinder relic]

My gut says its 70/30

[random stirrup]

if your dn gets parried you lose your mark forever btw

[cinder relic]

70 3 30 2

[shut lichen]

It's mostly 3

[vivid vessel]

ye well

[shut lichen]

Till they start casting ult

[vivid vessel]

trickster it is then

[shut lichen]

But also in BL 2 bubble so

[vivid vessel]

ye bl on rogue

[random stirrup]

you're talking about paladins right?

[shut lichen]

Yarr

[random stirrup]

charrend tells me that playing the mark should be too bad because their bubbles are a bit more telegraphed

easier than soul hunters

[dense coral]

I used two sparks to craft dagger but i wanna play outlaw, what is my redemption here? Keep the dagger as OH? Or delete it and craft a sword and be behind?

[vivid vessel]

well the bosses dont move that much

not as much

[cinder relic]

Why delete it

[silk dirge]

DS outlaw when

[shut lichen]

I'm just saying all that cleave means nothing atp so either or works

[cinder relic]

Just craft a sword ull be chillin

[vivid vessel]

what

wdym

[dense coral]

Dagger has hunt on it.
I wasn’t serious about deleting it, i would keep it in my bag for potential assa fights

[shut lichen]

Not sure atm, kinda lost what my train of thought was, but I had something

[vivid vessel]

i see

[shut lichen]

It's 4 am so my brain is fried

[vivid vessel]

its 5 am actually

[shut lichen]

Well my time zone is on the 0 and not +1 so actually it's 4 am in the true timeline

[vivid vessel]

there is only one real timezone buddy

[shut lichen]

Australian time?

[vivid vessel]

the time of the frenchmans

[desert tendon]

REal

[shut lichen]

[desert tendon]

i can confirm

Linux never lies

[shut lichen]

[upper surge]

because i dont want outlaw rogues in my discord asking for help

they're filthy animals

[shut lichen]

Honestly based

[desert tendon]

Real Larias, we dont want them here as well

send them to zac's dms next time!

[upper surge]

the real answer is, outlaw needs are diff than sin/sub and i dont know enough or feel comfortable enough to give outlaw specific advice

better to funnel all 11 outlaw players to this channel

[desert tendon]

They re only 8 now

they got target capped by the channel

[calm osprey]

Damn did you hear me say your name or what xD

[errant terrace]

does it make sense for me to upgrade my offhand (axe) with my veteran crests?

[upper surge]

when people link my guide it says larias on the link, so i search for it to find it lmao

[autumn wasp]

Where can I find what embelishments we should consider?

[calm osprey]

You certainly could, though you could also wait and see what champion pieces you get tomorrow

[calm osprey]

The gear section of #outlaw-faq
or wowhead
https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/outlaw/bis-gear#crafted-gear-early-crafts

[errant terrace]

thanks! I ended up looking at how dispatch scales (w/ attack power) and how attack power is increased by weapon base dmg and was like fuck it, may as well

even tho I suppose I shoulda looked at BtE scaling

[calm osprey]

I want to say dispatch scales with main hand but BtE scales with offhand but I'd need someone else to confirm

[errant terrace]

dispatch is attack power only, BtE is different

[calm osprey]

Oh, very interesting!

[burnt grail]

oh interesting. I had no idea offhand AP was part of BTE dmg

[tough scaffold]

yo am i cooked, i crafted the wrong fucking dagger

[keen belfry]

mhm

[frail veldt]

correct

PS/bte scales with both

rest of most of our abilities scale exclusively off of mainhand weapond amage

[wispy valve]

afaik pistol shot also scales with offhand?

[frail veldt]

scales with the combination

[wispy valve]

ic ic

[final pagoda]

why tracking tea?

[frail veldt]

small optimizations

to not spend it before downtime/rp/etc

[final pagoda]

how to disable auto tea?

[vivid vessel]

you cant

[frail veldt]

you just avoid going low

[final pagoda]

before downtime u pool energy?

[frail veldt]

im not saying you should do it

but if youre about to not attack stuff for like 30 seconds

theres really no reason to burn a tea

its probably a very minor gain

[final pagoda]

no I see, it makes sense

[frail veldt]

falls under feelscraft

[final pagoda]

is that actually the reason u have it?

@vivid vessel

I just removed it from my cdm thats why I am overthinking

[vivid vessel]

i like to know when i will get energy

also

ss cost 45 energy

tea proc at 30

i would prolly manually press tea instead of waiting for it

when i go down

and i think my next gcd might get delayed

cause it wouldnt proc naturally

but ye idk

[frail veldt]

yeah very annoying

[vivid vessel]

also fuck tea

[frail veldt]

when you go down to 35

[final pagoda]

I see

any ways to make that long default ugly orange buff track for blade flurry look better?

[frail veldt]

I think @keen belfry is working on a bar for it?

[final pagoda]

🤮

[vivid vessel]

ayjee cdm

imo

[final pagoda]

is it so much better?

I spent too much on bcdm

[vivid vessel]

ye i do think its the better cdm addon rn

[final pagoda]

bc out of combat things?

[vivid vessel]

idk what that means

just better in general

more customisations

decent ui

not like dog arcui

ux

[final pagoda]

u have settings on ayjee for out of combat / in combat filtering (i.e. hiding certain icons)

[vivid vessel]

giving cancer

arcui ux is actually illegal

[frail veldt]

its so bad

but it does the job

[final pagoda]

bcdm isnt too bad

[vivid vessel]

does it tho

[frail veldt]

yeah

my uis working great haha

[vivid vessel]

i have had a lot of bugs with arcui

[frail veldt]

I couldnt get ayije to work

[vivid vessel]

like the buffs icons are not always where they need to be

also it doesnt transfer on other specs, char

[frail veldt]

my ayije was like beyond broke, probably some cvar stuff but didnt want to reset everything to try it out

[frail veldt]

yeah it has no profiles

im using it very temporarily

its already setup on my rogue

so Im just not touching it

[final pagoda]

r u talking about arcui or bcdm?

[frail veldt]

rest of my chars are all on ellesui

[frail veldt]

arcui

I think the best two things right now are elles and ayije prob

[final pagoda]

msuf + bcdm does 99% of the job very well

never tried elles tho

[final pagoda]

^if u want to replicate atrocityUI

[frail veldt]

elles prob has the best ux ever

of any addon

[lime lake]

i was waiting for his full release today

but i think somethign went wrong

so gg

we swap later

[frail veldt]

its already very useable

takes like 5 minutes to setup an alt

[lime lake]

yeah but you'll have to redo everything with full release

so im waiting

[frail veldt]

really?

[frail veldt]

aw damn

oh well

quick setup

dont care haha

cant wait

[final pagoda]

what is so good about elle?

[frail veldt]

really good user experience

super easy to setup

made by someone whos good at the game and knows a lot

[final pagoda]

thats true elles is a beast

but what about UI?

I am not a fan of his ui

[frail veldt]

its not his ui

its an addon

[final pagoda]

not sure how customizable is elles

yep I know but I am not sure how customizable it is or it looks like his own ui

I saw some elleUI screenshot with that ugly ass 3d potrait

[vapid sundial]

u can turn that off

[lime lake]

its very customizable

[frail veldt]

its very customizable

jinx

[lime lake]

i dont think it has all of the super indepth features some of the others have but hes been adding to it constantly

and its insanely user friendly

[frail veldt]

you can essentially turn off any of the submodules as you see fit

this is what my ellesui looks like

looks very similar to other addons if you want it to

[lime lake]

spriest spotted

[vivid vessel]

ugly shit

[frail veldt]

shut up short icons

[vivid vessel]

you know that short icon is just better ?

like

objectively

you gain massive space for free

and you lose nothing

[frail veldt]

why not skinny icons

then

[lime lake]

ur mom is massive space

[vivid vessel]

because then you dont have space for the cd text

[frail veldt]

you already dont

[vivid vessel]

and at some point you dont see the icon anymore if its too small

[frail veldt]

your stacks are hanging off your icons

[vivid vessel]

i mean thats a style choice

[frail veldt]

Im not short on screen real estate

at 27 inch monitor you have plenty

maybe for 24 you could say shorter is good

[vivid vessel]

sure bud

keep your inferior ui

[frail veldt]

king ui

stays king

[tulip walrus]

China time

I can now see Zac during my day

Wonderful feeling

[frozen yoke]

do we play around Deadly Pursuit in any way? such a weird talent

[frail veldt]

nope

[vivid vessel]

well

tbf

[cobalt token]

Thank god we don't

[vivid vessel]

im on super degen time rn

i wake up at midnight

[frail veldt]

LOL

[frozen yoke]

i dont get why is it taken then, instead of deft manuevers or grapple cd

[frail veldt]

when does your guild raid?

[frozen yoke]

in raid build

[vivid vessel]

20h30

im fixing it dw

[frail veldt]

cuz it procs

[vivid vessel]

before raid

[frail veldt]

I have a friend who has that issue

[vivid vessel]

i woke up at midnight yesterday

[frail veldt]

then he just has to stay up

to fix it

[vivid vessel]

today was 2 am

now i can just stay awake till like 23h or smth

and im fixed

[solar iron]

2 am is easy fix

[vivid vessel]

can even go to sleep earlier

[solar iron]

it's the waking up at 5 pm that'll get you

[vivid vessel]

its nbd

ye happens

i kinda circle

[solar iron]

ye i have times that i just keep going in a circle

few hours later every day

[vivid vessel]

right

i discovered that normal days are actually too short

and whenever i have nothing forcing me to go to sleep

i just do long days

like idk 30 hours days instead of 24

[solar iron]

ye i also just sleep too long if i have nothing to wake up for

[frail veldt]

how long do you sleep

[vivid vessel]

im pretty sure a lot of people would do the smae if they could

[vivid vessel]

8h30

[frail veldt]

I think they did some studies on htat

found that peoples circadian rythm is closer to 23 hours

[vivid vessel]

really

[frail veldt]

yeah

I think it was the soviets or something

[vivid vessel]

idk i feel like mine is longer

[frail veldt]

they had people go underground

no clocks

no light

well no natural light

[vivid vessel]

lol

i think

[frail veldt]

I think when you have less to do you end up sleeping

[vivid vessel]

it depends a lot

ye

it depends a lot on what you have to do

like

if im bored

[frail veldt]

having stuff to do will make you want to stay up more

[vivid vessel]

after sometimes

like

[frail veldt]

ofc

[vivid vessel]

wtf

i have to go to sleep you know

[frail veldt]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

but idk some days im doing a lot

[frail veldt]

nothing makes you sleepier

than being bored

[vivid vessel]

and i just can go 24 hour

no sleep

all fine

[frail veldt]

same

but I try not to

cuz it catches up to you

in the long term

[vivid vessel]

it doesnt

noob !

[frail veldt]

lolol

[vivid vessel]

i hope sin stays dogshit

i do not wanna play that spec

[frail veldt]

hahaha

[vivid vessel]

im legit scared

i have to play it

[frail veldt]

honestly

it being behind this long

could get one of those big ass buffs

[solar iron]

ye i see a world ass gets buffed omega and becomes best raid spec

[tulip walrus]

zac, did you release a UI update?

[vivid vessel]

no

im finishing it today

well at least the whole cdm thing

with unit frames

im eu so

reset is tomorrow for me

i will release before reset

[tulip walrus]

okok

[vivid vessel]

i cant decide if i wanna keep the shadow border or ditch it all

[tulip walrus]

I love it

Even if you remove it, I'll find a way to add shadows

[vivid vessel]

haha

i mena its quite easy

wiht ayjee cdm

takes me 2 sec to change from one to the other

[final pagoda]

@vivid vessel do you keep those ugly ass interrupts in the middle of the screen for raid too?

[vivid vessel]

wdym lol

its not middle of the screen for me

its on the right

[final pagoda]

dont u have kick blind etc in the middle right*?

[vivid vessel]

ye

[final pagoda]

u keep them there even during raid?

[vivid vessel]

i do have them

but i mean its just 3/4 icons

can barely see them no ?

[final pagoda]

I try to avoid have anything in the close middle

for m+ it's very good spot

for raid I am skeptic

so I was curious

[tulip walrus]

Regarding whether there is an updated configuration for plater, the previous configuration is not very easy to use

For example, the names of teammates

[vivid vessel]

which one do i go with

i cant decide

@keen belfry

i have to keep the boders right

[merry elk]

the french cheese has a pro ui

[vivid vessel]

i think i need to keep the shadow borders ..

[final pagoda]

whats the difference?

[vivid vessel]

fuck you

[frail veldt]

no actually

[merry elk]

As a pvper I personally don't like that icons are shrinken down and not perfect squares xd

[vivid vessel]

i mean its pretty visible no

the borders

there is a clear difference to me

[frail veldt]

oh nvm I see it

[vivid vessel]

one is very straight

the ohter is shadow

[frail veldt]

it just makes the border blurry

0/10

[vivid vessel]

yes

good call

im keeping them

[frail veldt]

knew you would

[final pagoda]

I cant see it I swear

why u lie to him Mewo?

[frail veldt]

shadow

no shadow

[tulip walrus]

Shadows are right

[lime lake]

it do be blurry

[final pagoda]

ocd diagnosable

[harsh forge]

:O

[tulip walrus]

What？

[harsh forge]

ui pug i think the tooltip broken in pvp lobby

[tulip walrus]

Does it actually work?

[harsh forge]

No

[lofty steppe]

Should we use weightstones now that they are 15 attack power instead of 4?

[charred grail]

hey all, new to rogue this expac, loving Outlaw 😄 ! but as the season is about to start My UI is horrendous, does anyone have suggestions for clean UI's ?

[final pagoda]

just dont copy Zac mini buttons and ur good

[balmy topaz]

Atrocity is a good UI but you have to sub to him on twitch to get it

I personally like it and then I've heavily edited it

[hollow falcon]

Does anyone know if we craft a weapon as outlaw or do we hold our spark ? I can't find a real answer to that anywhere

[balmy topaz]

I've crafted

If you know you're not going to play any of the other specs

I'd just craft

If you're unsure

Then don't

[hollow falcon]

So i've to go for the 259 sword ?

[balmy topaz]

If you want to craft ye

[hollow falcon]

Idk if i need it or not, im 238 with 6 blue pieces since blizzard wont let me loot or give me 5 belt in a row

[balmy topaz]

It's a choice really

If you're honestly not going to play assa or sub

do it

[hollow falcon]

I might do some assa but it would be like 1 time out of 7/8 dj so

basically full outlaw

According to the laria's doc, outlaw should craft a sword but that's not a 100% thing to do

Some people craft some dont

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[cobalt token]

I do NOT see a difference

Wait nvm

I'm stupid

Can't have those shadows

[tiny onyx]

Anyone know the easiest delve to run right now?

[final pagoda]

can u show how the latest atrocity look like?

also anyone know how to track other class buffs? need to track some evoker buffs

[tribal cosmos]

Ngl

Outlaw

Might be eating good during raid

Alot of aoe hectic cleave

[fading schooner]

I feel like sub might take the cake, but I’m really hoping for outlaw

[vapid sundial]

are there amps?

then its sub

[sterile dune]

But i just dont get like

Overall the blade flurry talents are best, it helps ur cleave and st dmg through cp generation and everything whent heres like 8-10 targets

But when its just 2-3 targets where ur cleave makes u shine over ass and sub

Those talents are useless

[vapid sundial]

welcome to outlaw

no identity

they killed it

[sterile dune]

Whats more important, overall raid aoe or 2-3 target cleave?

Cuz I wonder if I should move those talents over to soemthing else

Im talking ablut these 2

If ur strength is 2-3 targets then is this worth it? Should we go for more aoe which is where we lacking? Or more low targets cleave/ST focus which is our main strength?

Cuz this both boosts ur aoe AND cleave/st when you have a lot of targets

But does jackshi on low target cleave

Afaik theres not many bosses where ur like hitting 2 mobs same time constantly

So maybe AoE is more important

?

[dense bramble]

rogue is no hybrid class they can´t let rogue hungering that low in the dps rankings right? right???

[sterile dune]

Its over bro, accept it

Play evoker or arcane/frost mage

We all have to become magic dps now

[dense bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-dance-horror-funny-mr-krabs-gif-1515006608208700076

[sterile dune]

Physical melee is dead 2026

[dense bramble]

fuck blizz

[cinder relic]

So nexus king has amps, so thatll be good for sub
So does paladins, but paladins u cant play sub on

[tough scaffold]

Int dagger kinda go crazy no?

[soft abyss]

Guys can I craft dagger and sword and have both embellished? Or is the embellishment working only for 1/2? Also let's say that I craft 2 weapons and a wrist for the embellishment. Does the embellishment make a difference on OH Vs MH?

[hollow temple]

the slot an embellishment is on doesn't matter