Then sure nothing matters
#outlaw
vivid vessel
cinder relic
Weekly are so fun
mystic berry
counter argument, I would love someone who pushed with law, alas practically all content creators run sub
vivid vessel
I think the games designed for casuals
You can push keys as a casual tho?
I'm not talkijg about pushing 20s
vivid vessel
Plenty of people just wanna go higher than weeklies still
worthy surge
or so few players will be able to do it
prisma lantern
I mean even if you're doing keys for KSM. As long as you're some sugar ahead of the curve it's fine.
Only matters if you're legit pushing top tier like 25+ keys.
mystic berry
and I know that some people would like to see these under-represented specs.
sand nova
why did the argument go from have friends to swap to fotm
worthy surge
like thats the logical conclusion of your argument
vivid vessel
Idk what we are even talking about anymore
lime lake
are we arguing about whether we're arguing
worthy surge
its an argument in the literal sense
glass mortar
no but like u already said if u push top end content u should play the fotm
worthy surge
ok and thats ok you seem immature
glass mortar
u and guy both said that i think? or if u want easier invites
that was basically what me and zac started this discussion on
so i dont know we even disagree
idk what we are talking about now
worthy surge
and youre entitled to your opinion about me based on the way I type
vivid vessel
ok and thats ok you seem immature
I am it's true
I'm trying to get reformed but it's hard bro
blissful zinc
Yeah but people somehow arguing that the problem doesn’t exist, or that the solution is to stop playing the class you would like to play instead of arguing for the solution
glass mortar
we arent saying thats good, or that people should be acting in these ways
just kinda the way the system ended up
worthy surge
yeah ok so we can argue about the system, without saying outlaw bad
blissful zinc
The reality is atm blizzard doesnt give a fk
vivid vessel
Outlaw bad
worthy surge
we can say the system is poop
errant field
Frost mage is dumb easy thus far. Can we all agree?
cinder relic
why did the argument go from have friends to swap to fotm
There's two solutions right
You can either, play fotm, or you can make friends
glass mortar
ok well if this started of someone saying outlaw was bad i never said that
vivid vessel
Also it was about rogue bad even
cinder relic
What other solution do u have
glass mortar
outlaws mid. thats not exciting
especially when ur toolkit is so weak
but we'll be fine for 99% of players
as long as they dont mind some stuff like pugging being a bit harder and whatnot
prisma lantern
Yeah but people somehow arguing that the problem doesn’t exist, or that the solu...
Eh idk. I think there's clearly a problem. I just also think it's more productive to find a solution rather than bitch about it - particularly since none of us can really change it or fix it.
vivid vessel
Was about rogue not gaining as much as other class the past few expacs, rending it even less popular than it already was
cinder relic
U said playing with friends is bad faith so, I guess the only answer is reroll from rogue
blissful zinc
Eh idk. I think there's clearly a problem. I just also think it's more productiv...
Aite bro
mystic berry
ok well if this started of someone saying outlaw was bad i never said that
I think this started out of someone saying that complaining about outlaw was acting like a crybaby
glass mortar
I dont think i ever mentioned bad faith anywhere unless that was directed at zac
cinder relic
I dont think i ever mentioned bad faith anywhere unless that was directed at zac
It's neither of u lol
glass mortar
ah kk
vivid vessel
I got called a crybaby by a random weekly enjoyer I think
glass mortar
many back and forths going on
vivid vessel
But I'm not mad
mystic berry
when complaining about your class is a fine sport practiced by all classes
glass mortar
im gunna go finish my friday the 13th with a horror movie go to bed zac
blissful zinc
Bringing up an issue is “bitching” and “being a crybaby” i guess xd
glass mortar
i expect zacaura this weekend
vivid vessel
That's why I came in here
cinder relic
when complaining about your class is a fine sport practiced by all classes
I really wish it wasn't!
mystic berry
I really wish it wasn't!
eh, there is valid points to be found
vivid vessel
I wanted to argue with people instead of sleeping
worthy surge
I think were allowed to try and constructively criticize the spec, but I think Outlaw compared to other rogue specs is more engaging, it does decent damage and the discourse in this discord as long as ive been here which is a very long time has always been overly negative
errant field
So should we wait for craft or go in with the sword
ashen void
I wanted to argue with people instead of sleeping
no you didnt
mystic berry
So should we wait for craft or go in with the sword
Do you plan to reroll after knowing its a sub tier? If not, you can simply go ahead and craft
vivid vessel
Yes I did !
ashen void
vivid vessel
Feel free to argue with me
lethal oak
I feel like Blizz could slap a 30% aura nerf on Outlaw and Guy would still say its a solid spec for all content lol 
errant field
Do you plan to reroll after knowing its a sub tier? If not, you can simply go ah...
I dont like sub. I swap between outlaw and assass
worthy surge
Definitely not
mystic berry
I dont like sub. I swap between outlaw and assass
Tough combo
vivid vessel
I feel like Blizz could slap a 30% aura nerf on Outlaw and Guy would still say i...
Truth nuke!
errant field
Pain completes me haha
craggy barn
idk guy isnt omega delusional
vivid vessel
And do keys
cinder relic
Do you plan to reroll after knowing its a sub tier? If not, you can simply go ah...
It's an outlaw tier
craggy barn
huge
mystic berry
Huge
bronze wadi
I feel like Blizz could slap a 30% aura nerf on Outlaw and Guy would still say i...
tbf you gotta give him credit hes at least trying to lighten the doom
mystic berry
are we back?
vivid vessel
Legit can't tell if this is from today or not cause he does that every tier
craggy barn
yo guy
vivid vessel
It's so over
craggy barn
viscous is fucking aids
cinder relic
I feel like Blizz could slap a 30% aura nerf on Outlaw and Guy would still say i...
If outlaw got a 30% nerf I'd say "why is outlaw getting a bigger Nerf than demo or unholy"
mystic berry
tbf you gotta give him credit hes at least *trying* to lighten the doom
We absolutely needs both sides of this discussion
otherwise, it becomes a doomer echochamber
like unholy death knight discord
vivid vessel
Wtf!
worthy surge
and instantly switch specs
vivid vessel
We probably are getting nerfed after hc week dw
mystic berry
lol
vivid vessel
It's the classic
worthy surge
I cant imagine
craggy barn
the classic hc nerf
mystic berry
probably some bullshit nerf like 6% reduced damage
worthy surge
and upset
quaint wharf
lmao
vivid vessel
quaint wharf
sand nova
cluegii
craggy barn
5% aura nerf, and 10% bf nerf
cinder relic
probably some bullshit nerf like 6% reduced damage
Just to be clear we are imagining a Nerf patch to get upset about right now?
craggy barn
yes
vivid vessel
At least bf is so low now we probably won't be looking insane on pad fights anymore
mystic berry
Just to be clear we are imagining a Nerf patch to get upset about right now?
Obviously
ashen void
vivid vessel
Just to be clear we are imagining a Nerf patch to get upset about right now?
Owned
mystic berry
We have to keep up with the times
17th patch was revealed, and we got pissed by it
time to plan for the next pissing
lethal oak
At least we got sick tuning in the 12.0.5 notes
vivid vessel
Holy!
bronze wadi
vivid vessel
You got it cuh!
craggy barn
is solo here
worthy surge
Im not pissed by it, I dont really have any feelings about it, a bit of relief that nothing changed mostly which could be interpreted poorly but thats more a indictment on how blizzard balances things than anything
craggy barn
oh nvm its in the faq
mystic berry
Im not pissed by it, I dont really have any feelings about it, a bit of relief t...
Im pissed because they went 3 weeks of radio silence to cook this
could have been an email
worthy surge
so youre pissed at how blizzard communicates and does balancing rather than where outlaws at
is that what youre saying
because thats reasonable
mystic berry
probably that
cinder relic
Im pissed because they went 3 weeks of radio silence to cook this
Well they don't make the patch notes for just outlaw rogues
mystic berry
Well they don't make the patch notes for just outlaw rogues
The changes they made were mostly already called for in beta, idk why they stalled
lethal oak
They actually specifically exclude outlaw
bronze wadi
too big to fit
cinder relic
The changes they made were mostly already called for in beta, idk why they stall...
What are u referencing exactly?
worthy surge
but again I cant speak for how it was in DF and TWW but as a returning oldhead Outlaws fun to me right now, it is clunky in some ways but its definitely more fun to me as a player than sub
prisma lantern
What are u referencing exactly?
He wanted that sweet sweet sub buff.
worthy surge
but if sub starts doing a lot more dmg than outlaw then id probably switch
fickle relic
what was your highest aoe dps guys?
vivid vessel
but if sub starts doing a lot more dmg than outlaw then id probably switch
Wtf?
Thought you didn't believe in meta
Pussy !
sand nova
welll you see he would spend less time in lfg so
worthy surge
I mean its definitely more fun to do a lot of dmg than not do a lot of dmg
fickle relic
i saw a sub rogue doing high dps in a dung, tried it out and did dogshit dps 🙁
worthy surge
I dont think anyones arguing that
fickle relic
i'm proudly back now
prisma lantern
i saw a sub rogue doing high dps in a dung, tried it out and did dogshit dps 🙁
Did you press black powder?
That's the whole game in AoE pretty much.
sand nova
fok bp fok bp blades dance sec macro fok bp fok bp
fickle relic
i mean it did, but not much
lethal oak
yep, didn't help
were you playing with a sword in MH?
prisma lantern
How though? 😂
I don't get it.
I like sub right now, but it's not exactly hard.
fickle relic
what's your mastery on sub?
fickle relic
for real?
worthy surge
we wish
prisma lantern
what's your mastery on sub?
Currently 478.
fickle relic
mine was about a half of it, maybe that's the reason
was constantly spamming shurikens for full cps and then black powder
lethal oak
I have 820 haste, im fast af
fickle relic
and ofc using coup de grace
sand nova
in dance ?
worthy surge
thats a lot of haste
fickle relic
i have 733
prisma lantern
was constantly spamming shurikens for full cps and then black powder
Huh. Idk.
Storm - Powder - Powder straight up pops off.
Did you press dance & blades?
fickle relic
and it's 20%
worthy surge
is that pre flask
lethal oak
ye
prisma lantern
Like that's the whole thing. Feels pretty good with or without mast, tbh.
worthy surge
thats a lot of haste definitely rock a crit flask with that much
lethal oak
thats a lot of haste definitely rock a crit flask with that much
I'll be rocking a mastery one and dropping haste because blizzard demands i play sub
worthy surge
kek
fickle relic
i just did one or 2 dungeons, i'm pretty sure it isn't the best aoe build
but isn't it the recommended haste? it should be around 25% which it probably is
prisma lantern
No potent powder 😂
fickle relic
yeah i screwed up
snow stratus
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fickle relic
what i liked about sub, is that there was an indicator when your finisher will give you full cps on your next finisher. i wish outlaw had the same thing with last rank of gravedigger
worthy surge
you can track the bullets
lethal oak
I cant count
fickle relic
not as good
worthy surge
but yeah its more effort/annoying than the sub on screen indicator
fickle relic
maybe i can't count as well
prisma lantern
Most sub rogues disable the indicator tbh, use ShT stacks.
worthy surge
Well there you go
fickle relic
Most sub rogues disable the indicator tbh, use ShT stacks.
what are you talking about?
scarlet surge
is there any reason to track fatebound coins or can I hide them
warm remnant
are you supposed to have 3 or 4 sparks rn
prisma lantern
Shadow techniques; you get the indicator if you've got 5 of them before you use a CP builder.
fickle relic
do you just look at your buffs?
lethal oak
nah he uses a WA surely
prisma lantern
Yup.
fickle relic
the wa or an analog?
prisma lantern
Basically a second combo point bar.
The big black bars are aids.
Anything works really. Arc. Better blizz CDM, etc.
Just need to make a custom bar.
fickle relic
could somebody code rank 3 grave|d wa indicator?
twin steeple
could somebody code rank 3 grave|d wa indicator?
it's in the cooldown manager
snow stratus
Outlaw for 0 updates on March 17th? 😢
worthy surge
reading this chat really could make one go crazy
fickle relic
it's in the cooldown manager
is there a way to make multiple different bars that are not attached to each other?
gaunt phoenix
Actual spec outliers getting hit is good for outlaw
worthy surge
Actual spec outliers getting hit is good for outlaw
Finally another sensible opinion
gaunt phoenix
Expected sin to get something over outlaw
fickle relic
i'd prefer outlaw being buffed, than outliers being nerfed, but i'll take it, i guess
prisma lantern
Expected sin to get something over outlaw
Sin likely in the gutter straight up.
snow stratus
I was hoping for a little ST buff
fickle relic
no instant poison in cooldown manager?
prisma lantern
That said even still - if you run into a hard execute phase I could still see people wanting Sin over Sub or Combat for a specific fight,
vivid vessel
Actual spec outliers getting hit is good for outlaw
Sub AOE nerf is an outlaw key buff in my book
We are so back
worthy surge
I mean that is true tbh
worthy surge
Ive never been a sin enjoyer id play it begrudgingly if I felt like I had to but otherwise nothx
tawny rain
So we still going trickster
shrewd silo
Sub AOE nerf is an outlaw key buff in my book
fickle relic
fatebound
tawny rain
when is it deathstalkers turn man
hot ledge
Just set a new Tmog why is my guy using one sword like a moron?
worldly ridge
That said even still - if you run into a hard execute phase I could still see pe...
I miss combat
worthy surge
nah outlaws cool
fickle relic
2nd one is better, right?
urban oasis
worldly ridge
Not swords having extra swings that actually mattered cool though
worthy surge
I think Outlaw as a concept is way more fleshed out than combat ever was
and the spec definitely feels like it has an identity beyond just
youre a rogue with swords
which is what combat mainly was
snow stratus
Are we competitive now that DK and Demo locks got nerf?
Is it true that Fury Warriors and enh shaman are better than outlaw rogues?
frail veldt
youre a rogue with swords
its identity is "youre a rogue with swords AND guns"
worthy surge
and your abilities feed into cdr, roll the bones is flavorful even though it can be frustrating
the spec is based on procs
frail veldt
im not sure procs is an identity
worthy surge
its part of the gameplay identity
worthy surge
I havent played sin in a while
but does sin have procs
I meant as far as rogue goes I dont mean as far as all classes go
frail veldt
im not talking about hte other rogue specs
I mean in wow as a whole
procs and cdr are very common
many many specs have that
worthy surge
I was referring to rogues
not other classes
since combat was brought up vs outlaw
frail veldt
ah I guess identity isnt only relevant within a class to me
worthy surge
Well we can argue about that overall
but I was framing it between combat vs outlaw
oldschool combat was super bland
frail veldt
I mean ofc
it was a classic wow spec
old school of every spec was bland
there were no exciting specs mechanically in classic wow
worthy surge
I agree with that, it was funny that as a dagger rogue you had to be behind your target and you didnt get teleported there like with shadowstrike
frail veldt
shadowstrike only teleports from stealth now
its not like every shadowstrike
but positional requirements kinda suck ass in modern wow
so im glad thats mostly gone
frail veldt
I mean in classic its whatever
worthy surge
theyre annoying in XIV
frail veldt
cuz theres not much else youre doing
blizz has kinda flip flopped a few times on outlaw identity
between cowboy and pirate
fantasy wise I mean
icy cedar
when has it ever been cowboy?
frail veldt
currently...
we arent at all pirate now
they removed all pirate references
we are just cowboy/highwaymen rn
tumbleweed when you between the eyes
pistol weildin
frail veldt
potato potato
icy cedar
it's missing way too much for cowboy
though i think cowboy would be hilarious, give me a lasso, let me mount in combat like a DK
worldly ridge
Outlaw has a pirate highwayman thing. Sub is void/dark shadow magic powers and sin is poison+bleeds. With the aesthetic theme I feel most at home with the poison and bleeds of sin, so I kinda miss the „rogue“ vibe behind sub and outlaw. Of course gameplay way better but with old specs it was always „rogue“
worthy surge
I enjoy outlaw a lot more
icy cedar
give me a quick draw minigame for dps, like dev evoker's staggered casts
frail veldt
it's missing way too much for cowboy
I guess the fan the hammer thing always makes me think cowboy
icy cedar
pirates and highwaymen are both types of rogues, i don't have an issue with them as class themes
i think our hero trees are complete nonsense
"fatebound"
frail veldt
Outlaw has a pirate highwayman thing. Sub is void/dark shadow magic powers and s...
no pirate anymore
worthy surge
but we still have it
worthy surge
we still stealth by stuff while doing quests
frail veldt
they forgot a couple pvp talents but thats it
icy cedar
I do wish that we kept the thing that kept ADR from timing out while in stealth...
i've been dropping it a lot running between packs not hitting things
frail veldt
drink up me hearties and boarding party
only pirate we have left
I wouldnt be surprised if theyre gone before the end of the xpac
icy cedar
My own opinion is that rogue suffers from the modern talent system, and Blizzard should remove talents/hero talents/apex talents from rogue and let us have our own thing distinct from other classes. Unsure how difficult that would be on the back-end to have one class be completely different in that respect.
worthy surge
sin is also getting a pvp nerf lmao
worthy surge
My own opinion is that rogue suffers from the modern talent system, and Blizzard...
I dont know about that granted this is my first expansion with the new talent system
so im not sure how I feel about it yet tbh
fickle relic
imba?
icy cedar
I think we would have more fun if we had the 'hero talents' picked first, but call them origins instead, and then our "trees" were more free form, allowing us to select abilities and talents from all 3 current rogue specs, in a loadout fashion rather than a tree.
select one of three generators, select two of six finishers, select 2 CCs and utilities, select one CD, etc
select some passives too why not
like Diablo 3 kinda
worthy surge
I mean but now I feel like were describing a completely different game
I dont really think thats a realistic expectation
icy cedar
right, I'm saying just turn rogue into something completely different than any of the other classes
since we're the least or one of the least played
frail veldt
hey outlaw gets a 12% dmg buff in pvp next week
it needs far more
worthy surge
damn rogues are really one of the least played by quite a bit
worthy surge
yeah I know
hollow temple
sin is also getting a pvp nerf lmao
yes and no
hollow temple
nerfing assa is hilarious
?
vivid vessel
yes and no
Yoooo
hollow temple
hilarious as in blizzards ability to balance the game is laughable
it got buffed
hollow temple
hullo
worthy surge
Wheres the buff
hollow temple
Wheres the buff
this is literally wrong so
hollow temple
the 35% nerf to implacable?
that part is kinda w/e
frail veldt
im confused
frail veldt
LOL so whats the actual change
hollow temple
it is fiction
frail veldt
HAHAHAHA
hollow temple
4% over all buff
frail veldt
4% ability damage
hollow temple
ya
frail veldt
but yeah 35% implacable nerf I thought that was kind of a big deal
hollow temple
but yeah 35% implacable nerf I thought that was kind of a big deal
the slight nerf to burst was expected
assa was pretty bad but could burst like a truck if left to its devices
frail veldt
maybe blizz is anticipating something when we get more geared
fickle relic
which one is better?
worthy surge
32 prim stat
fickle relic
even with jackpot?
worthy surge
Im not sure but are you counting on having jackpot all the time?
fickle relic
it procs pretty often
fickle relic
so how many gem colors do you need to make up 9 less agility?
frail veldt
so how many gem colors do you need to make up 9 less agility?
prob like 5
lime lake
assa saved
lime lake
frail veldt
they nerfed the only thing they were good at
fickle relic
it's not for pvp, in pvp we use a different gem
frail veldt
and buffed their bad overall damage by a piss amount
fickle relic
that reduces damage in stun
frail veldt
it's not for pvp, in pvp we use a different gem
oh im in the wrong channel
notricks being here fooled me
worthy surge
oh yeah on the forum its fixed and does say increased
well that makes more sense
a decrease didnt really make sense for sin in pvp ngl
fickle relic
what's about that one?
frail veldt
oooo thats good
fickle relic
i'm definetly buying it
hollow temple
what's about that one?
wut
fickle relic
mana
hollow temple
what does "imba" MEAN bro
fickle relic
broken
hollow temple
how would u ever care about mana
fluid meadow
is this true?
hollow temple
ya
worthy surge
like still not rlly playable
neat echo
How is outlaw feeling so far? I see we're being left out when it comes to tuning 
fickle relic
somewhere around a tier in m+
neat echo
No shit?
fickle relic
yep, it's definetly not bad
neat echo
Glad to see!
fickle relic
i don't think i've ever been behind 2 other dds in terms of dps
worthy surge
Go to bed zac
vivid vessel
Go to bed zac
Dude idk I can't
worthy surge
But he’s right I wouldn’t look at M0
lament locust
when can i buy zacui
fickle relic
that's relatable
lament locust
your doing gods work
vivid vessel
Im finding solutiosn
I think I have something I'm ok with now
Will share this weekend probably
I need to fix plates
lament locust
i didnt realize how much i relied on good ui till i had to play on shitty ones
vivid vessel
lament locust
i think outlaw is kinda an outlier tho where ui helps alot
vivid vessel
Im kinda hard hating on blizzard CDM rn tho
Cause
If I wanna share things you have to export each spec cdm
orchid oracle
Ayije kinda slaps
vivid vessel
Then a profile of a CDM addon
Potentially one profile per spsc
It's like
Ok bro?
lament locust
idk how hard it is to setup the wago installer but that thing makes it ez to install stuff
fickle relic
wild
vivid vessel
idk how hard it is to setup the wago installer but that thing makes it ez to ins...
I think that thing was reserved to streamers or smth idk
Fuck if I know I will probably just make a Google doc or idk
Will see
lament locust
nah this is actually the canon timeline. sub rouge looks like it well be best prog spec, just for assa to get buffed last minute and be op after RWF
lament locust
damn lame
altho i think even small streamers are getting it at this point
there are some people i never heard of with packs
vivid vessel
Ye idk it's just not something I can do automatically on my own setting up something
I gotta mail them up and shit
hardy thicket
This is going to be the classic HC story arc for law 100%
Zero changes into HC then "overperforming" first week into unwarranted nerf or just left to dry
vivid vessel
reef plinth
Whelp, guess i'm going sub
I mean, Outlaw does get a buff, we get access to our tier set right? Right?
vivid vessel
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal pagoda
slow offhand - does it matter that much?
hardy thicket
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of 
Zero In, and also slightly more 
Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.
It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use 
Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.
tribal pagoda
ty
trim harbor
@zac what ui addon are you using thats not wobbling all around the screen
vivid vessel
@keen belfry @frail veldt idk if i can use ayje cdm, cause its fucked to have spec specific things
vivid vessel
@zac what ui addon are you using thats not wobbling all around the screen
rn im kinda trying to decide
ayje cdm is quite good
but im also using weak aura
idk yet
trim harbor
is ayje stable unlike arc
sinful dagger
morning, no tuning 4 outlaw.... i am shocked
vivid vessel
is ayje stable unlike arc
i think so
frail veldt
<@177964030474977281> <@151872253229924352> idk if i can use ayje cdm, cause its...
thats annoying
ngl every day I log in elles is better
I might end up just using that
well for now im keeping arcui on my rogue
cuz its done
lime lake
shadow borders pog
vivid vessel
ellesmer is a full ui thing anyway
i dont want that
or wait you can only take certain part
i forgot
frail veldt
craggy barn
yea u can disable parts of it
frail veldt
you can control border size
vivid vessel
border texxture
craggy barn
its compartmentalized
vivid vessel
so no
lime lake
ngl every day I log in elles is better
ive been watching the updates channel every day
lime lake
its definitely getting to the point where im gonna swap
vivid vessel
ayje is prolly the only addon that will ever have that tho
craggy barn
u need the whole suite but u can disable each section u dont want
frail veldt
border texxture
its like 4 pixels wide why do you need a texture
the fuck you on about?
vivid vessel
its like 4 pixels wide why do you need a texture
cause its a shadwo
craggy barn
i hate the shadow border
frail veldt
vivid vessel
i hate the shadow border
dont care
frail veldt
what is the texture
vivid vessel
didnt ask
frail veldt
here
craggy barn
zac can keep shadow border to himself
frail veldt
its just a black border
vivid vessel
you are just a noob bro
frail veldt
can even make them dwarf and zoomed in like you
brisk crypt
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc:- Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
shy sandal
Sub the best of the 3 specs rm?
For m+ and raids I mean
tribal pagoda
sub just got nerfed in M+ a smidge
my experience outlaw performs well, esp with novice tanks
sub better after 6 targets ish
anything but assassination rn 😄
brisk crypt
me: Sees that outlaw sims the highest of all rogue specs
Also me: remembers that outlaw always sims highest and that doesnt mean shit 
craggy barn
surely with all the damage changes from tww -> midnight that will no longer be the case
shy sandal
<@352916297262301194>
What addon is that
craggy barn
ellesmere ui
trim harbor
ye this goated frfr
river zenith
In light of recent tuning, is it fair to say that subtlety is best for raid and outlaw for m+, or is sub still better for pushing keys too?
brisk crypt
sub is just so damn boring to play for me lol, ive tried to like it cos its apparently better but outlaw seems strong in and of itself, able to top meters and tbh if you enjoy outlaw just lock in on that
trim harbor
you are just a noob bro
how did you get spell to desaturate from that rancid red
balmy topaz
Chat did they forget about us yesterday
lime lake
No they buffed you in pvp
balmy topaz
True
lime lake
They remember you exist they just think youre perfectly balanced
zenith sparrow
@vivid vessel have u posted ur ui?
vivid vessel
not yet
vivid vessel
how did you get spell to desaturate from that rancid red
idk
balmy topaz
I just got all my sub gear for PvP
zenith sparrow
my ui is cooked and I kinda made my own version of urs in elvui during tww so yeah
lol
frail veldt
I just got all my sub gear for PvP
The dark side
frail veldt
I know what I said
balmy topaz
river wing
cool buffs
oh wait.
sand nova
who can i watch play outlaw thats good ? i have tendonitis so i cant play outlaw rn
patent mirage
howdy pirates
untold wadi
who can i watch play outlaw thats good ? i have tendonitis so i cant play outlaw...
zac__________________
sand nova
i appreciate it but he was literally using killingspree last time he was streamin
just a lil outdated i think
vivid vessel
well
untold wadi
yea hes a nobody
haughty wigeon
stream this
vivid vessel
no you
haughty wigeon
untold wadi
coarse parcel
outlaw fellas, who have an addon to change my whole game font ?
twilit spruce
Huge outlaw changes
patent mirage
blizz has a dont touch tag on outlaw
stoic topaz
i read somewhere that we should have a dagger in offhand for faster attacking offhand, is that really a big deal?
quartz magnet
i read somewhere that we should have a dagger in offhand for faster attacking of...
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.
It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.
stoic topaz
gotcha, thanks! I did just get quite a large ilvl increase weapon from a hard prey reward but it wasnt a dagger. I think it's still a way bigger upgrade
ionic citrus
Don't even need to be high jlvl difference. A slightly higher sword will sim better than the dagger.
stoic topaz
sweet, good to know. I feel like as i was leveling I was skipping out on taking a slightly upgraded axe or sword cause I didn't want to lose the dagger in offhand
viscid shuttle
guys i lost gif where monk types OUTLAW and insta leave group, can someone link?
faint pendant
viscid shuttle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1464628673616281789/im...
big ty
woeful siren
Hey, what we do for our 2 first craft guys ?
tribal cosmos
Hey
Is there a weekly limit to field accolades
Cause it might be our infinite heroic gear next week ?
proven ocean
@vivid vessel noob
proven ocean
Me sleepy rn
jolly geyser
quaint wharf
is details still wonky or no
jolly geyser
No m+ next week
patent mirage
moonkin buffs
still matrix
Sub buffs 
proven ocean
No m+ next week
Whats unlocking then
still matrix
Aoe down huh
proven ocean
Just season ya?
jolly geyser
Normal/hc raid
still matrix
And nightmare prey
jolly geyser
Or was it mythic also
jolly geyser
Ah thought so
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> do i have time or
ye for sure
like 8h max to level a guy
if you are slow
and you have an entire week rn to catch up on the useless gear that is useless day 1 anyway
and you only really need one reset to get mostly full gear of the useless gear that is useless day 1 anyway
quaint wharf
fair
tribal cosmos
Gear wont be useless
We dont have infinite heroic gear farm next week
Doomed ngl
vivid vessel
current m0 drops 460
or 160
or whatever the fuck
the ilvl
ok
its weekly lockout
one weekly lockout + renown gear is basically full gear of rn
tribal cosmos
Dunnno what blizzard is thinking with m+ not releasing
vivid vessel
except m0 is daily lockout next reset
tribal cosmos
A continuity of bad choices
vivid vessel
and its also 6 ilvl higher
than current m0
which means
you legit do 2 days of m0 next week
and its higher ilvl than everything you did week 1
tribal cosmos
Yea but m+ drops heroic gear and has always released with heroic raid
vivid vessel
and you can do that the whole week for free
it doesnt rn
its hc and m0 daily
so current gear is uselesss
vivid vessel
Yea but m+ drops heroic gear and has always released with heroic raid
also thats not true
tribal cosmos
Shiiii
vital basin
First season of expansion m+ and mythic raid is always 1 week after heroic
tribal cosmos
There will be nothing to do next week
Perma farm m0
Kill normal
Get aptc
Aotc
vital basin
Daily lockout on m0 and higher ilvl rewards than now
tribal cosmos
Then sit on ass and stare at wall
vivid vessel
ye my ass if i do preys
quaint wharf
or smthing like that
tribal cosmos
Yea but prey takes like 4 minutes
vivid vessel
fucking preys
tribal cosmos
And dont give good rewards
And are weekly lockout gear
As it currently stands there is 0 way to perma farm heroic gear other then splits
Also are tier sets by armor type now
quaint wharf
they are by armor type yes
tribal cosmos
Wow always copies games in the worst way possible
haughty wigeon
It’s not just world quest
quaint wharf
preys is pick up trap simulator
vivid vessel
and if you do the prey legit like it was intended its multiple world quests
dogshit
haughty wigeon
It’s a world quest and your doomed to farm in one zone u til it appears
quaint wharf
and if you do the prey legit like it was intended its multiple world quests
i did this week 1 and it was awful
tribal cosmos
Mon hunter they made prey
vivid vessel
i did this week 1 and it was awful
yep
quaint wharf
until i realized traps takes like 3 min
haughty wigeon
Wait
vivid vessel
farming all worlds quests in the zone
tribal cosmos
Imagine they nerf traps
quaint wharf
infinite less time
vivid vessel
if they nerf trap i wont do any more preys
jolly geyser
I do wqs anyway for rep, and do the traps ofc
haughty wigeon
Oh I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time
tribal cosmos
You pick up trap
vivid vessel
It takes less times with traps
you go to the zone of the big red wq and you just open traps
tribal cosmos
He shows up
vivid vessel
thats all you do
tribal cosmos
You beat his ass
quaint wharf
if u dont do traps u have to fight him like 4 fucking times
tribal cosmos
You chase him and backstab him
haughty wigeon
That’s so dumb
tribal cosmos
Rinse repeat
vivid vessel
That’s so dumb
ye so they will prolly nerf it
and then its dogshit simulator agaibn
tribal cosmos
Bro
quaint wharf
if they nerf it no one will be touching preys
haughty wigeon
Like how they nerfed abundance
tribal cosmos
They nerfed arators key
vivid vessel
me when preys is just forcing you to do 10 world quest for fun
jolly geyser
I dont think about the prey stuff that much,I just do the 2 and go on my way
quaint wharf
ye same
vivid vessel
They nerfed arators key
the thing to tp to dungeons ?
haughty wigeon
I dont think about the prey stuff that much,I just do the 2 and go on my way
Ya but the issue is how they hyped the system up
tribal cosmos
No to tp to silvermoon
haughty wigeon
And it ended up being nothing burger
tribal cosmos
Imagine hyping up prey
vivid vessel
i was using it to tp to dungeons
tribal cosmos
We all knew it sucked
tribal cosmos
Like blizz devs havent made heat since warcraft 3
at least make the game hard
If the story, side stuff , main scenario are all ass
Make the hard stuff fun
And we forgive you
And ignore it
quaint wharf
b0th preys gave me dagger this week tho, which was pretty pog but
tribal cosmos
But no we make sub 2 buttons
We make bm hunter 1 butt ok
We make everyone 1 button
And these bosses bro
Mythic testing shows theyre dog shit rx
Ez
If i see another gally wix i stg
jolly geyser
Take a break from the game
tribal cosmos
Shit i just came back after dimmy died months ago
This game turned to barney town
dusk veldt
I'm testing sub for first time since midnight release, and I prefer to don't play wow over playing that trash
patent mirage
why though
mighty pivot
outlaw changes 
quaint wharf
proven ocean
Thats an emote outlaw guy
quaint wharf
ok
proven ocean
ok
brisk crypt
outlaw changes <a:modCheck:1047027562158768138>
Like… new ones?
fallow sonnet
So should I be shooting for ~25% haste?
vivid vessel
wrong channel gg !
fallen zodiac
vivid vessel
get banned !
atomic dirge
After the patches, is the Sub better in raids, or does the Outlaw remain a good choice given the high amount of AoE and cleave?
vivid vessel
no one has any clue
zinc briar
Ofc sub and assa will be better than outlaw
fallow sonnet
no one has any clue
What is your build looking like going into m+?
Or is a secret? 
vivid vessel
the one in the faq cuh
fallow sonnet
mb i have brain damage
formal temple
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
- ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
- MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
- Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc: - Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
- WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
- Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
fallow sonnet
Deadly Pursuit 
formal temple
if using Wangbar, how do i hide the blizzard combo points?
vivid vessel
Deadly Pursuit <a:rotating_skull:1105379925034274826>
dont take it
just take some random utility
deadly is turbo dog
lucid sparrow
vivid vessel
Like how many mobs in range
ah
im unsure
possibly
i will test once m+ is out
rn its a pain to know when secrets are supposed to be on or not
vivid vessel
because the spell in range api still work against yuour target
i just dont know if it works against plates aswell
true dust
if using Wangbar, how do i hide the blizzard combo points?
you can use enhance qol addon
balmy topaz
because the spell in range api still work against yuour target
It should be pretty simple to sort right?
@sacred rune You were the one who initial made the WA before right
balmy topaz
Ye okay got you
vivid vessel
idk exactly what got restricted
and it could be that only checks against your target works
balmy topaz
Fuu may have already looked with Nimble not sure
sacred rune
<@194804407706189824> You were the one who initial made the WA before right
weakaura for what?
vivid vessel
but not polates
sacred rune
i made the target checker weakaura ye
but i don't know if you can still check targets in range now
would assume you can't
balmy topaz
Ye okay fair
sacred rune
if anything i would need to create an addon now
vivid vessel
i mean i will check
balmy topaz
Ye I'll leave with yo
vivid vessel
i know i can still check spell in range against my target
coarse parcel
is it currently possible to have an auto-focus addons or weak aura ?
tropic zephyr
zac, what do you use for unit frames? and btw can you spoonfeed ui thx
balmy topaz
How hard is it to make auras in m33k compared to WA zac?
vivid vessel
is it currently possible to have an auto-focus addons or weak aura ?
wdym by that
vivid vessel
zac, what do you use for unit frames? and btw can you spoonfeed ui thx
unhalted rn
vivid vessel
How hard is it to make auras in m33k compared to WA zac?
idk its mostly the same
its still the same addon lol
tropic zephyr
ok i think i'll go wangbar, unhalted and better cdm for now
vivid vessel
im starting to resign myself
valid tartan
Zac what spec will you play for prog now?
vivid vessel
sub like every tier bro
balmy topaz
Especially after it got ST buff
formal knot
wtf i thought zac was a real outlaw gamer...
balmy topaz
Progging as sub is gonna be omega brain dead tho
coarse parcel
wdym by that
having like a mob ID and whenever I'm close to one in a dungeon it is auto-focus it
balmy topaz
Outlaw not gonna be much better tbh
valid tartan
Doing mechanics with 1 button rotation doesn’t sound too bad
vivid vessel
having like a mob ID and whenever I'm close to one in a dungeon it is auto-focus...
hm
balmy topaz
having like a mob ID and whenever I'm close to one in a dungeon it is auto-focus...
You can do that with a macro no?
vivid vessel
that sounds kinda cursed bro
balmy topaz
If you really wanted
vivid vessel
just mouseover focus no?
slim hare
How hard is it to make auras in m33k compared to WA zac?
hey whats the name of the addon ?