#outlaw

1 messages · Page 657 of 1

fathom bramble
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compared to a caster

vivid vessel
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elus is mandatory in keys

cobalt token
#

surprisingly

fathom bramble
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it's definitely not our biggest issue though

vivid vessel
#

you have ?

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when

fathom bramble
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just something that has bothered me a little bit for years

vivid vessel
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elus has been mandatory for rogue in high keys

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for like

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2 expac now

cobalt token
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but theres been a few

vivid vessel
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sounds cap

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also what is high up people

frail veldt
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I mean at lower ratings and in raid for sure

vivid vessel
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cuase like

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it sjust wox and me for the last expac

frail veldt
#

but without elus, rogue literally doesnt have a defensive for single target damage

vivid vessel
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no one else been playing the law

frail veldt
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which obviously isnt viable

fathom bramble
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could also just be it snapshotting the wrong talents

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depending on where you are checking

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but whether some rogues that are doing keys you might consider to be high are using it or not elusiveness is clearly better in coordinated content where damage levels are pushing oneshots everywhere

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elusiveness can stop a lot of these 1-10% overkills you can see in high keys

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cheat death can stop 1 every 6 minutes

glass mortar
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in raid its generally elusiveness if you cannot live something on a fight without it, and cheat death if not (on prog)

marble kernel
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ty

glass mortar
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because for all the shit cheat death gets, on prog being able to avoid being the reason for a wipe once a pull every single pull of prog

fathom bramble
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yeah in raid it's almost always cheat death

glass mortar
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idk its just such an insane value i couldnt imagine giving it up

vivid vessel
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in raid its different

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cheat has a lot more value

fathom bramble
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stuff tends to not oneshot you unless it's meant to

glass mortar
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even if ur dying once every 100 pulls

fathom bramble
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and you don't need a wall for everything

glass mortar
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yea thats true, feint ST dr tends to be much less needed in raid

vivid vessel
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nothing does damage in raid

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its the easy mode game

glass mortar
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honestly, I think feint should have baseline DR now

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with how much we've lost

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like 10%

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then elus buffs it to 30

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or... by 30 dumpythink

frail veldt
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by 30 lol

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thats a lil silly

glass mortar
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or dump the dr on evasion off the talent and onto evasion baseline

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actually that one makes more sense

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evasion is already so hit or miss, now we dont even have cdr on it

frail veldt
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yeah evasion baseline should for sure have dr

frail veldt
fathom bramble
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our new 20% chance to avoid 20% damage should be gauranteed during evasion

glass mortar
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😎

glass mortar
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thats actually a good one too

fathom bramble
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slap a little
"chance increased to 100% during evasion" at the bottom of it

glass mortar
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i mean its just mine but stronger

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but still good

stoic wagon
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hi do we have current m0 rotation trinket tier list or something?

frail veldt
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!fuu

ornate heathBOT
glass mortar
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i think i wouldnt be so assmad at the defensive changes if we had just that much

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baseline DR on evasion, no energy cost on feint

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i dont even think its enough

frail veldt
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nvm trinkets arent in there yet

vivid vessel
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bro i have nothing to track on sub

image.png
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its so

frail veldt
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soon

vivid vessel
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idk

glass mortar
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but its so much better then what it is rn

vivid vessel
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fuck sub !

frail veldt
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you know what the worst part about being an outlaw main is

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having to play sub lol

mighty pivot
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play gwb_uwu to track that

stoic wagon
frail veldt
stoic wagon
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okok

fathom bramble
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the fabled and first tier where sub/sinners have to play law

frail veldt
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yeah and what if ion announces the addon shit was a prank and just undoes it all

stoic wagon
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that thing is bis right now no? it sims so high than the others

image.png
vivid vessel
mighty pivot
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and what if realz picks up outlaw again

vivid vessel
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officiers asked me what spec i would play

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they dont know

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its always sub

mighty pivot
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not after wednesday's tuning

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I have insider info

charred fox
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Outlaw even if it’s buns 🙂 because I’m stubborn

vivid vessel
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you dont even need to track any buffs

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as sub

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liuke what is this mickey mouse spec

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no ?

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like idk

mighty pivot
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isn't it like 3? shadow techniques, apex shit and dance

vivid vessel
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im speccing sub to check the changes

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and

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there is nothing tho

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its empty

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a toddler could play it

mighty pivot
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nes controller spec

vapid sundial
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Is it just m0 again next week

vivid vessel
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no

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next week is

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m0

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BUT

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its even more m0

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you can feast on the m0s

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also some raid

stoic wagon
fossil lintel
mighty pivot
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bruh that vessel trinket from maisara it has asynchronous stacks deadaf I thought you just stacked it to 5 and maintained it

glass mortar
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why are u hating they are just vibing

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😎

fathom bramble
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the mobs are adadadad spamming

junior coral
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yo this world tour quest is cheeks... making me do a abundance event in zul'aman, damn thing isnt in that zone besides 3am???

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can u just do the abundance in another zone and it still works?

prisma lantern
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Any abundance works.

keen belfry
fathom bramble
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sub starting to look like my poe character

image.png
glass mortar
#

@vivid vessel thoughts?

vivid vessel
vivid vessel
glass mortar
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its cosmetic

vivid vessel
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ah

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xd

glass mortar
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imagine

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u can use full details

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but only in ur house

junior coral
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yall just sending adventurer crests or holding?

cobalt token
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I don't even have adventurer gear anymore

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😭

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Tho don't know if there's some minmax strategy I don't know

vivid vessel
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there is

grim spear
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Next week you ll be replacing most of your veteran gear with champion or higher pieces

vivid vessel
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but its just to upgrade lower things

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like adv

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before spending the one above

grim spear
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Before doing h raid, you can use veteran crests to fully upgrade the remaining Veteran items you still have

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that’s basically the only use for holding veteran crests

vivid vessel
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i made icons big

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and bar smol

glass mortar
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u can craft a veteran crest no spark item to get a second embellishment

vivid vessel
glass mortar
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in some shit slot

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like ur bracers

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but thats only if u want 2 embellies on day 1 of raid

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i suppose u could grind ur spark before raid anyway if post reset garf

keen belfry
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move step up

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have you tried ayjiecdm thing @vivid vessel

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mayhbe better for buffs than arcui?

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my sub

image.png
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should probs move feint up

vivid vessel
vivid vessel
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have you

keen belfry
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no but u shuold

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since u wanna do arcui style buffs

vivid vessel
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idk

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i hate everything

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even weak auras

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nothing is good enough

keen belfry
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its why i use base cdm cuh

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all these addons are so

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meh

vivid vessel
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ye that shit is trash trash

keen belfry
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id rather just have nothing

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like ur probs just jelly idk

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hate us cuz anus

random stirrup
keen belfry
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base cdm has saved profiles

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thoughts?

vivid vessel
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i hate that when i go on my other rogues

random stirrup
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yes but what if they're another spec

vivid vessel
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its not setup

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like

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what

keen belfry
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all my chars look like this caught

image.png
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just by logging in

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nbd

random stirrup
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and that's assuming im just otping

peak dock
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Guys are next week mythic 0 rewards at champion track?

random stirrup
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if i want to play other specs its just awful

keen belfry
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rylld trust wang vision

vivid vessel
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and then the buffs i dont

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so its just fucked

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on every alt

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myu buffs are middle of scren

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rng pos

random stirrup
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yes

keen belfry
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all i hear is wahj wha whahahhwhwh wahhh

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anyone else think zac is on his wah wah arc rn

vivid vessel
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wtf

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wang

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i got diamond

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im going master now

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you following or you are noob stuck with your rengar

keen belfry
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i was emerald 2 60lp

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then tilt lost 3

vivid vessel
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nob

keen belfry
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im just not him anymore

vivid vessel
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i know you arent

violet ice
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since we cant use weakaura anymore is there any addons that will help me track stuff better

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for outlaw i use to have a tracker for when ps proc and between the eyes was rdy seems alot harder to play any suggestions

vivid vessel
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cooldown manager

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its a blizzard thing

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search in options

keen belfry
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isnt it crazy that rogue players complained about stealth

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outlaw ROGUE

violet ice
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ya but i want something to glow when ps procs

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how do i make that happen or a sound que

keen belfry
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if you put it ony our cooldown bar it glows

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not buff

violet ice
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is there a way to give it a sound que ?

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so i dont have to keep looking down

keen belfry
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their sound quueueue barely works

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it only works when ug et first proc, not when u get to 6 stacks

violet ice
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and we only use ps at 6 stacks correct or can we use it at 3?

keen belfry
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u can use at 3

violet ice
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how do i make it sound que when it hits 6 stacks

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i mean 3

keen belfry
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open cdm and right click iocon add alert

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fart on it

violet ice
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anything else i should add alerts for

vivid vessel
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you cant have sound queue on ps no ?

keen belfry
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alert deez nuts

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u can

frail veldt
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Yeah but not on 3 to 6 stacks

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Only 0-3

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Cuz blizzard

vivid vessel
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only on aura applied

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i dont even need the cdm for that

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so ass

frail veldt
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🙂

keen belfry
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stomrbringer enhance shaman doesnt play all apex

frail veldt
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LOOOOOOL no shot

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They'll for sure fix that

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There's no way right

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Is their apex bad or are there other talents very good

keen belfry
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i think both? well

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stormbringer needs basically all capstones, even the one they dont usually take cuz its so strong

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and u cant drop the other ones as that hero tree

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so u just say im good on 2 apex points

frail veldt
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Very unfort

quaint mauve
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@wintry solar what do i get for dinner

tulip walrus
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zac, when can I use your whole UI? I need UwUI

vivid vessel
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soon

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iu think

frigid olive
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Its really annoying you cant swap talents while Preparation is on cd. My damage on trash after bosses isn't great.

vivid vessel
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you just cant swap prep off no ?

frigid olive
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What do you mean?

vivid vessel
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uisually how swapping talents work is that you cant remove a talent on cd

frigid olive
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oh you mean undo the talent then swap?

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ohhh

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i didnt even think of that

vivid vessel
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no i mean i dont see why it would be diff

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you can prolly keep prep

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but swap the rest off

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to go aoe

frail veldt
glass mortar
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hes saying make a ST and aoe prep build

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and swap

frail veldt
glass mortar
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i just dont run prep tho

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felt stinky in m0

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packs dont live long enough

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its not up all the time for bosses

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meh

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just run kir

vivid vessel
frail veldt
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Well it's annoying you can't swap while it's on cd

glass mortar
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itll feel better maybe with m+

frail veldt
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He's not wrong

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It is annoying

glass mortar
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i mean prep vs kir is like piss vs poo tho

vivid vessel
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which he didnt know

glass mortar
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zac is saying just make a ST and aoe prep build

vivid vessel
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but thats normal

glass mortar
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then u can swap

vivid vessel
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on every cd

frail veldt
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It's annoying you can't swap out of prep

fallen quail
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Do yall talent into thistle tea? Im not a fan of it, but icyveins is recommending it with most of the builds

glass mortar
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sure

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every build uses thistle tea

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our energy budget is tuned around it

frail veldt
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I don't want to have to make duplicate talent trees that keep prep to avoid a tedious limitation

glass mortar
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u will not enjoy the game if u dont have it

frail veldt
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It's annoying

glass mortar
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even with proper haste you will have downtime

frail veldt
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Try playing without it

fallen quail
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Ah so its just a thing ill get used to then. Thanks

frail veldt
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You'll hate it haha

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Don't even put it on your bars

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Don't even track it

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Ignore it entirely

gaunt phoenix
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it just auto procs when you need it

glass mortar
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except on the high end u probably will be tracking it

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because like

frail veldt
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Hush hush

glass mortar
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right at the end of a m+ pack u dont wanna waste a tea

frail veldt
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Hush hush

glass mortar
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fun spell

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just turn it into vigor thanks

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thats all it is anyway

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and would be less toxic

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empowered vigor

frail veldt
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0% increase

keen belfry
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cna we get a thistle tea sim

glass mortar
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vigor R2

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w/e at least thats probably like a 2% optimization at best

fallen quail
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Haha yall are wild. Thanks for the advice

glass mortar
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what a sad place this spell ended up in

gaunt phoenix
frail veldt
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🐒

glass mortar
lime lake
#

wow

shadow trellis
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I miss extra melee

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and being able to take hit and run for no dps penalty

glass mortar
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we shoulda gotten acro back

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made the game easier to play

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thats in line with blizzard vision or

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more accesible melee?

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hello???

vivid vessel
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no

gaunt phoenix
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You can remove deadly pursuit for hit and run

vivid vessel
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you forget that acro is fun

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and you cant have fun stuffs

shadow trellis
gaunt phoenix
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No you can

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i dont think deadly pursuit is doing a whole lot

shadow trellis
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i see thank youu

keen belfry
#

ywe

frail veldt
#

Is deadly pursuit trackable in any way? Like the 15cp part? Mostly curious for pvp

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You could prob still use wa for that right Zac?

vivid vessel
glass mortar
#

what if

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omg mewo

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i see the vision

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what if deadly pursuit is actually meant to be a pvp talent and outlaws is supposed to play around reseting every 15s to get a new cheap shot and trigger of pursuit for maximum AR cdr

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like sub rogue constantly reseting behind pillars

frail veldt
#

And I have 3 more seconds until triggering it

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I'd like to know

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So I don't just slap a dispatch for no reason

gaunt phoenix
#

who needs vers

image.png
keen belfry
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i know sim sheets are funny

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but look at thi s

image.png
#

look at the range

next wedge
glass mortar
#

im not crazy, arms has been nerfed like 14 patches in a row since beta right?

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i remember like 4 months ago hearing arms complaining they were turbo trash on ptr

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and then they got nerfed

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every patch since then

keen belfry
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i feel like the 17th will have big numbers

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i mean i have never seen a sim list like this

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and im normally saying sims dont mean shit

glass mortar
#

thats pretty funny looking yea

keen belfry
#

but if u sium 40k more than someone else it matters

prisma lantern
keen belfry
#

shits wild

frail veldt
upper hawk
#

they left guardian druid off that list

lime lake
#

need to hide the true kings

gaunt phoenix
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You're assuming arms is even updated in simc

lime lake
#

they might be pulling a hunter

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thats true

gaunt phoenix
#

might be, might not be, i know nothing about em

prisma lantern
vivid vessel
#

Guys

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Is 1600 pvp high

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Or can that be done by noobs like me

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@hollow temple tell me cuh

gaunt phoenix
#

it is often a thankless effort

lime lake
#

1600 in pvp is pretty thankless yeah

vivid vessel
#

Is it

lucid sparrow
#

but will still take u some effort

gleaming reef
#

!wa

ornate heathBOT
fossil lintel
#

is the heroic last boss cata charge going to be on the boss that doesn't release next week?

vivid vessel
#

Good question !

lime lake
thin fiber
dark ember
#

I don't understand how Supercharger & Forced Induction are good talents - I'm pretty sure I just don't understand them.

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Like - more or less 2 finishers every ~1 minute~ or so become massive? Just seems like a lot of lost space vs. Lethality & Cold Blooded killer -

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but every guide and every person and every sim I'm looking at says doing so would be a massive loss

gaunt phoenix
#

supercharger is essentially ~57 more combo points over 5 minutes which is ~6% of your total combo point generation

this more or less translates to 6% dps

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it also allows you to briefly hold Between the Eyes for an upcoming supercharger, which is good damage scaling with the zero in talent and more reset chance through ace

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lethality is 3% dps, and cold blood is 1.5% dps or something

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so supercharger should be a bit ahead

dark ember
#

wonder if we'll see some tune

quaint mauve
#

10 games

vivid vessel
#

And outlaw is a spec were things snowball very easily

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In term of cdr

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Cause more cdr = more cdr

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= more cdr

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= more cdr

cinder relic
vivid vessel
#

Everything feeds into each other

vivid vessel
cinder relic
#

I am kinda tough

image.png
vivid vessel
#

Forever slam

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Is that warriorn

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If warrior why yellow name

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How does that work

cinder relic
#

That is my warrior

vivid vessel
#

Crazy bro

fickle relic
#

There are no changes to rogue on the ptr, diabolical

#

Nvm, there definetly will be some. No panic yet

wintry solar
dark ember
#

that ptr is all suspiciously grammar and readability stuff, wouldn't panic

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doubt they're hyping up tuning just for it to be "replaced their with there"

wintry leaf
#

How much does Gravedigger max rank help proc BtE refreshes? Feel like the olden days.

#

?

proven ocean
alpine sequoia
#

guys, one spupid question in the morning, should be try to fish for the big roll with roll the bones? or do we want to hold a 2 or 3 buff for example?

#

couldnt find anything about that reroll prio

hasty warren
#

Hi pirates

pure folio
#

thats p much it

alpine sequoia
#

ok thats exactly what i wanted to know

#

ty

twin steeple
quiet ore
jolly geyser
#

Brewmaster does good dmg also

quiet ore
#

I watched a 240 guardian druid do 56k single target DPS, and I don't see too many actual DPS do that rn. This is above my st sim DPS at 241 on my rogue.

jolly geyser
quaint mauve
#

ramlu

#

more like

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stupidlu

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heh

ornate vault
#

hello here. question: if BTE and BR are ready. but i havent 6 PC. i have use SS for build then BTE then BR. or, i use BR and after build for BTE.

jolly geyser
dull geyser
#

why does blizzard hate us

quiet ore
wintry solar
ornate vault
quiet ore
wintry solar
#

They want to get rid of it so bad but don't want to do the work required to get rid of it

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Or cant

prisma bramble
#

I mean, half the fun comes from Restless blades 😄

wintry solar
#

Sure

quiet ore
#

There's a reason rtb's new stage 3 cdr buff is only 30%

wintry solar
#

But that don't mean blizz enjoys designing stuff around it

prisma bramble
#

Fun police garf

wintry solar
#

I'm waiting on them to delete Restless and put everything on really short CD with charges

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Like sub but moreso

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Y'all like charges right?

stiff hawk
#

They dont like CDR in general

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Like on Sub they wanted to get rid of Shadow Dance CDR

inland acorn
#

if they remove restless, they might as well just delete outlaw lol

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make it tank spec like in SOD

cobalt token
noble moon
#

id be happy if they made killing spree good

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make it like samira ult

silk stirrup
#

They should remove restless blades IMO

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And give outlaw more guns

stiff hawk
torpid fiber
mighty pivot
#

restless guns

balmy topaz
dreamy pecan
soft abyss
dreamy pecan
#

That video drops, and suddenly I'm getting random Outlaw hate.

normal forge
soft abyss
#

ah sorry thought we were talking about AR

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I meant AR before BTE for the supercharger

patent mirage
#

ah ye the clickbait video

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"99% of your dmg is bf that's all you do "

#

yep

untold wadi
vapid sundial
slim hare
#

deserved

noble moon
#

is it better to killing spree then bte or bte then ks

untold wadi
#

to bte.. or not to bte hmm

patent mirage
#

show me the outlaw! meme

mighty pivot
#

no

jolly geyser
#

Outlaw!

balmy topaz
cobalt token
#

its that bad

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😭

vapid sundial
#

its an old post

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dont get baited

cobalt token
#

😭

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i might be

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stupid

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i thought it was a pic

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not a gif

vapid sundial
copper radish
#

Whose got the betting pool going on our buffs later

vapid sundial
#

You mean 12.0.5?

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lol

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Shout out to 9.2 and making me have 0 hope in blizzards balance team

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I really do think their saying

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'we dont care that much about helping a class that has 3 dps specs as much as one that has a healer and dps, or all 3 even'

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or something similar to that

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so dogshit

soft abyss
#

we are waiting for the buffs today , who knows what will happen

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why are we crying for no reason ?

balmy topaz
#

Wat

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I mean they ain't coming today buddy

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Monday probs

soft abyss
#

I mean probably they are coming today

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but yeah monday also possible

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not very reasonable though

balmy topaz
#

They won't come today tbh

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I can predict

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Bear with get fucked

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Cus someone has gone through that spec with a fine comb

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sorted the bugs

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so 100% it gutting the damage of that spec

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I doubt we will see change this week

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Maybe the week after

soft abyss
#

i think the changes will be ultra long this time around

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maybe wishful thinking

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but they are needed

mighty pivot
balmy topaz
#

Would be content

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But yeah I feel like 17th is more SOS changes

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Like arms warrior buff

mighty pivot
#

or deleting unholy

balmy topaz
#

The funny thing is

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arms warrior gains c10% ST from 4set

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Unholy c5%

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But the raw damage value is basically idential ICANT

mighty pivot
#

funny garf_sit

#

how come each dk spec rework makes them gigagods

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and we get temu outlaw? food for thought

balmy topaz
#

I am so glad I don't have a gdudu

faint pendant
violet swan
balmy topaz
#

It's very under wraps this doc

river wing
#

Outlaw's probably like 9% or so, it only buffs BR (and otherwise gives maybe a 2.5% boost to everything else with perfect play and good RtBs)

primal holly
#

Do folks think its worth keeping track of Palmed Bullets?

The only use case I can think of is AR into two supercharged BtE. But I assume its not worth delaying finishers to line that up.

river wing
split jolt
#

When playing my feral in stealth in dungeons when tank pulls I get spells casted at me kicking out of stealth - before I level my rogue are you guys getting this?

river wing
split jolt
#

Never noticed it before and I’ve played rogue since bfa

#

Or it seems more egregious now

mighty pivot
primal holly
#

It defo feels more egregious. If it helps stealth doesn't impact outlaw rotation (tho can mess with your positioning)

river wing
mystic berry
#

nothing else

mighty pivot
split jolt
#

Yeah was more rogue overall but the assass chat was popping and I didn’t want to interrupt

vivid forge
balmy topaz
balmy topaz
mystic berry
#

I cant put it in words, but I feel like ss second strike when opp procs takes forever to hit sometimes

balmy topaz
#

Our tier is like 5

mystic berry
#

idk if its my latency

balmy topaz
#

I can show you mine and see what you think

river wing
mystic berry
balmy topaz
quiet ore
mystic berry
#

but yeah, kinda iffy tier

river wing
#

like it'll help, but not much

mystic berry
#

I am not a fan of tier sets focused on non builder/spender skills in any class

balmy topaz
mystic berry
#

hmm

#

will compare here

#

thanks

balmy topaz
#

No worries

balmy topaz
river wing
balmy topaz
#

5% is the norm I'd say

#

Apart from boomie

#

Boomie is stupid % inc

quiet ore
#

Imo, all tier sets should be in the vein of "casting X also casts Y" because those kinds of effects always merge build synergies and actually shape a season's builds. "Blade rush casts sinister strike on all targets hit" is a hella cooler effect than "Blade rush has 6s lower CD and 60% increased damage"

#

Great - tuning in my tier set

balmy topaz
#

Also idk about you but

#

it feels omega bad until you have tier

polar kelp
soft abyss
#

I would say it feels weird starting the season and having tier almost instantly

balmy topaz
#

Maybe cus I play beta

#

I get used to having the tier

#

then go from having it to not having it again

#

feels strange

soft abyss
#

its one week 😛

#

max 2

balmy topaz
#

Well this tier I'll get it day 1 WICKED

#

Just get 1600 in pvp

#

And then pray enough tier drops for LFR NM and HC

polar kelp
#

Tier from pvp?

soft abyss
#

yeah we have 2 set instantly

quiet ore
soft abyss
#

yy

river wing
soft abyss
#

or at least was 😛

lime lake
#

the final boss of the raid that wont be out

balmy topaz
quiet ore
#

Hm. High m+ rating pre-tier, as a DPS. Sounds like a challenge. Yeah, pvp probably the easiest.

balmy topaz
#

But you can get the 1600 raiting 1 week earlier

#

I am LC for my guild so basically anyone who gets 1600 will get prio tier week 1

polar kelp
#

If you play a rogue you should be used to just running your own keys anyway ....you don't get invited to others

balmy topaz
#

I will only ever level up my own key

hardy thicket
#

We get 1 catalyst right off the bat or?

balmy topaz
hardy thicket
#

So like you would still need two items to catalyst and clear LFR/Nm/HC before just to not screw urself

quiet ore
hardy thicket
#

Yeah I get that

#

But you wouldnt catalyst it until all head tier drops are ruled out anyways

#

And would you even catalyst it pre vault? In case you get tier in vault

#

Iuno im very not read up this expac

quiet ore
hardy thicket
#

Wdym

#

You use catalyst to get to 4pc as soon as possible

#

But using them unwisely might screw that

fossil lintel
#

You only catalyst when you can guarantee 4set

rose kernel
#

Who has a good cooldown manager string for outlaw?

vapid sundial
#

If your 2 gives you say 10 and your 4 3-4% yu go 2set

#

asap

twilit spruce
#

How's outlaw playstyle? Is it fun?

zinc briar
#

No

jolly geyser
#

its aight

zinc briar
#

It was fun

#

Now is slow, cluncky

fossil lintel
#

It's fun

zinc briar
#

Stealth does nothing

#

Etc

fossil lintel
#

If you enjoyed pre-df rework outlaw you'll enjoy it

quiet ore
vapid sundial
#

a lot of people didnt want to play around stealth

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

In reality, fo the class design playing around stealth windows made 0 sense

#

Doesnt fit the theme one bit

zinc briar
#

U are right tbh

#

But its not fun anyway

#

Because of the 0 energy moments with bad rolls

vapid sundial
#

when someone says you're right

zinc briar
#

U have to prey for the bte cd

primal holly
#

it feels much smoother as you get closer to 25% haste

vapid sundial
#

I think the problem is

#

we went back to pre DF

#

and

zinc briar
#

Pfff 25% haste..

vapid sundial
#

the class is a lot clunkier than it was then

#

There was still some down time, but it was a lot less common

zinc briar
#

Yeah, we lost that apm

vapid sundial
#

im not sure how much it is rn but

fossil lintel
#

Yeah I popped a rank 1 haste flask for world tour this week that got me to 23% and didn't have any big energy starve moments the entire 8 dungeons

zinc briar
#

I want to destroy my fingers again playing outlaw 🙁

jolly geyser
#

play fury then

vapid sundial
#

go play tariq in fellowship

#

100 apm for no reason

primal holly
#

lol i remember having to stop mythic prog as outlaw after getting rsi in aberrus

#

good times

vapid sundial
#

(40 of that is spamming a button as fast as you can)

zinc briar
#

But friend of mine says that fire mage has more apm

vapid sundial
#

sec

#

your friend lied

zinc briar
#

Has more than fury

vapid sundial
#

yeah play prot

#

:^)

zinc briar
#

That warr is portect

#

Hahahh

vapid sundial
#

whats the difference between the warrior specs

#

they all run on the same braincell

#

also doesnt look like fury has its sims done yet

zinc briar
#

Pfff i dont know

#

Even if this outlaw is boring compared to other class is 30 times more fun

vapid sundial
#

This was last tier

#

Tbh

#

14 apm isnt the worst

#

to lose

#

could be way worse

#

Idk for me spamming the same button =/= high apm

#

fake apm

balmy topaz
#

Is the variance numbers out

vapid sundial
#

idk

balmy topaz
#

Ahh ye it is

#

WHAT THE FUCK

#

FERAL

lime lake
flat pebble
lime lake
#

oh well tbf

image.png
zinc briar
#

Whats the real ST sim atm?

#

Where can i see It?

copper radish
#

Buff day boys

balmy topaz
#

Why does everyone think changes today

#

Is it just the tarot cards

vapid sundial
#

Probably

#

I mean if u play outlaw

#

and expect any good changes

#

xdddddd

balmy topaz
#

We get 0 changes

vapid sundial
#

No

#

we get changes

#

but

#

they make the class worse

#

haste tax x2

#

range removal

balmy topaz
#

40% haste

vapid sundial
#

removed aoe blind

balmy topaz
#

I think 17th

#

0 changes

#

24th maybe some ST love

#

And by that I mean

#

Aura buff BF nerf

vapid sundial
#

we will do well on heroic week

#

as we always do

#

bc low stats

#

(maybe cahnged now bc of haste tax, first time having to really see /shrug)

#

so outlaw will be nerfed off heroic logs

#

:3

#

That is the way.

#

Then the class gets left in the gutter until 0.5 if you are lucky.

#

Wonder where ive seen this before

copper radish
vapid sundial
#

yes

#

thats what i just yapped up there

copper radish
#

Then everyone gonna get full tier and we gonna be dead last another season

celest cobalt
#

Its gonna be different this time.... pepeLaugh

vapid sundial
#

best outcome is them not noticing outlaw and you getting to remain middle of the pack

#

rather than sub tank dmg

lime lake
#

middle of the pack is sub tank damage

balmy topaz
vapid sundial
#

guy said hed bet me $5 they get nerfed

#

i unironically

#

would not be shocked to see them not get nerfed

hardy vault
#

i lost the link

vapid sundial
#

no

hardy vault
#

i said please...

balmy topaz
#

I don't have

#

Just snips from other people

#

this doc is omega on hard lock down

vapid sundial
#

why not just

#

use

#

ctrl h

#

for google docs

#

xdd

hardy vault
#

with i lost the sheet i meant the link i got is not working anymore

#

i do wonder why they guard this doc so hard before everything is finalised

#

surely nobody would doom because of preliminary sims

lime lake
#

i cant go half an hour in any discord remotely related to wow without seeing that sheet

#

i wish it was locked down harder

frigid shale
#

!tricks

ornate heathBOT
mystic berry
#

The best dps in the game

#

is a fucking bear

#

an animal incapable of reason

#

grim

jolly geyser
#

I mean actual bears do good dmg

mint crater
#

nice ahm

#

do we have already a simc comparing the rogue dps class?

alpine valve
#

Why is the aoe opener AR into bf?

image.png
gaunt palm
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
mighty pivot
gaunt phoenix
#

cause you have to AR and you have to BF

#

if you BF > finisher > AR then you lose cooldown reduction on AR

#

if you AR > finish > BF then your finisher doesnt cleave

#

If you skip the prekey thing then you can simply AR + SND right before the pull, which is perhaps less awkward

mystic berry
#

ar + snd gotta be like

#

top 10 worst sensations in wow

gaunt phoenix
#

lmao

hasty warren
alpine valve
#

I dont understand what blizz is doing with this specc. It was so nice to play in shadowlands

dark ember
#

I like what they're doing and see the vision but it'd be cool if there was some variance in the trees instead of landmines of given-up ideas and bandaid abilities to what could just be improved core design

mystic berry
#

Its very close to being perfect, the capstones, the energy and some decisions like ace being 2 pts is what sets it off

sleek egret
#

I wish SBA was good for rogue tbh.

dark ember
#

I mean I'm actually playing it this expansion so that's an improvement

#

Just kill off this hope for making Ambush involved. We did not pick Outlaw because we wanted to play with stealth. Make that side of the tree something new and shiny.

wintry leaf
#

How much does the last apex talents in Gravedigger help the BtE proc more?

Is it like the olden days popping off?

lusty sparrow
#

call me zelda the way I hit them between the eyes with 17 consecutive resets

mystic berry
gaunt phoenix
dark ember
#

Gravedigger feels better than average as far as Apex go but Gravedigger 4 feels particularly weak. You can tell me it's worth like X% of our DPS but it doesn't feel like it is.

river wing
vapid sundial
river wing
vapid sundial
#

Blizz doesn't understand what they're doing either.

gaunt phoenix
#

it adds about 30% more bte casts overall

vapid sundial
#

I don't think anyone can convince me they have anything BUT interns working on rogue

gaunt phoenix
#

36 -> 48 over 5 min

dark ember
#

Like some Apexes are so bad they keep me from touching the class entirely. So I'll take Gravediggers slightly above-average simple buffs.

frail veldt
wintry leaf
#

Why are these builds saying only take 1/2 of Ace up Sleeve? Don't we want more chances for BtE?

frail veldt
#

Its just weaker than other talents

gaunt phoenix
#

it just increases the combo points you get refunded when it resets

wintry leaf
#

Ohhhhh

gaunt phoenix
#

+2 combo points on refund is kinda garbage

#

it's a common feedback area

#

That the point does nothing

wintry leaf
#

I see, thank you

frigid shale
#

!tricks

ornate heathBOT
gaunt phoenix
river wing
# gaunt phoenix That the point does nothing

I mean it kinda does something, it lets you press BtE with purpose (i.e. with 5 CP guaranteed) right after it procs
but yea the value is so much less for the second point that it's not worth sadly

gaunt phoenix
#

yea tho we don't want to bte at 5 anyway

river wing
#

actually I've been wondering
do we force BtE combo to 7, or just 6+?

gaunt phoenix
#

it's 6

river wing
#

aight ty

torpid lodge
#

Things that will always be true:
death
taxes
BTE at 6cb

winter cave
torpid lodge
#

Touché random discord citizen!

winter cave
#

Don't wanna mislead people 😄

#

God I can't wait for M+ because M0s didn't feel great. I did one with our UH DK and I just wanted to quit after seeing some of his AoE

#

Seeing him peak over 250k was depressing

proven ocean
#

Not really ravenholdt specific

#

All discords

dark ember
#

I bte at 5

proven ocean
#

All kinds of people

tiny maple
stoic wagon
#

it there a way i can sim whch flask is better between haste and crit? i'm at 23%haste without falsk right now

prisma lantern
#

Pending tuning, obviously.

wooden pewter
#

is outlaw good this expansion or not really? I am finding mixed reviews

primal holly
#

good in what way? @wooden pewter

#

I think it feels fine to play and appreciate dropping stealth etc from our rotation, but some find it clunky/energy deprived. Every chance that higher haste will fix that tho

#

Damage wise we're currently simming 7% higher than sub - but ofc more dependent on uptime and sub will likely outperform in raid on burst/amp fights

#

hugely caveated by the fact that there will be tuning on Tuesday

#

lol I guess thats a long-winded way of saying it's mixed!

#

hope that helps

celest cobalt
#

Wink

mighty pivot
#

if you compare your dps with the peaks of burst specs you will always be disappointed no matter the tuning

fossil lintel
#

I have yet to find a semi decent uhdk doing that much in 0s

torpid lodge
torpid lodge
cinder relic
#

Even in outlaw op seasons, it's going to lose on the bloodlust, pull 80 mobs pulls

ocean lodge
#

I hope the rogue article is just a gif of a sinking ship.

#

Don't even bother writing anything.

torpid lodge
#

Uhdk AoE isnt even that crazy. Its their ST thats wildly overpowered

ocean lodge
#

Graveyard is kinda crazy.

torpid lodge
#

Eh not that crazy

ocean lodge
#

Decent. Who is top aoe anyway

crimson scarab
#

how much does UhDK currently sim at AoE with current gear? out of curiosity

ocean lodge
#

I assume shaman or destro

torpid lodge
#

Pretty sure the king of Aoe DPS is lock

#

At current tuning

crimson scarab
#

i thought demo lock currently does the most, no?

torpid lodge
#

Ye demo op still iirc

cinder relic
ocean lodge
#

Very doubtful its on top past a certain target count

cinder relic
#

But demo/arcane are broken as fuck

ocean lodge
#

On normal sized pulls demo is crazy

#

But a lot of the really strong aoe is capped

crimson scarab
torpid lodge
#

Uhdk ST is untouchable by leagues and bounds. AoE its demo / arcane for sure

ocean lodge
#

Id give it to destro and arcane for something like first pull aa

#

Maybe shammy?

torpid lodge
#

Ele?

ocean lodge
#

Ya

crimson scarab
#

i was thinking ele shammy can also excel there

ocean lodge
#

That asc burst ain't a joke

torpid lodge
#

I dont think ele is on anyones radar atm. First time ive heard it mentioned haha. New meta spec incoming

upper hawk
#

fire mage? feral druid?

crimson scarab
#

mm hunt also seems quite strong

ocean lodge
#

Idk feral pve only pvp

torpid lodge
#

Feral is quite strong in aoe too but not op

#

Above average id say

ocean lodge
#

How's mm on a big pull though

upper hawk
#

primal wrath rip uncapped target count. i'm only considering tha tover sized pull

ocean lodge
#

Is primal uncapped?

#

Oh boy lol

upper hawk
#

the applied dot is

#

the initial hit doesn't really matter

ocean lodge
#

Thats pretty damn strong

torpid lodge
#

It might catch a nerf ngl

crimson scarab
#

i can imagine that sub also wouldn be that bad on first pull aa

ocean lodge
#

I didnt know that

torpid lodge
#

Its okay because blade flurry is uncapped now 🫠😭

ocean lodge
#

Since when

crimson scarab
#

im pretty sure thats cap 😄

torpid lodge
#

Never. That was sarcasm

ocean lodge
#

Was about to say lmao

torpid lodge
#

Hence the crying and melting face

crimson scarab
#

one can only hope

ocean lodge
#

I lowkey hate this iteration of outlaw.

torpid lodge
#

Outlaw is still king of mid keys with pug tanks though

lavish jackal
#

does it matter which slot enchant goes where? cause OH is higher AS

image.png
crimson scarab
#

its still crazy how many ppl have absolutely no idea whatsoever how outlaw plays

ocean lodge
#

I wonder how hard you could hit unholy and still have it blast

torpid lodge
#

Actually that may not be true- feral may be better

ocean lodge
gaunt phoenix
upper hawk
#

watching my pug tank consult his route guide for 10 seconds while all my buffs expire is fun as outlaw

crimson scarab
#

ah thats always my favorite

torpid lodge
ocean lodge
#

My favorite thing in the world is watching my aotd or tyrant expire while the tank just stands there like a bot.

crimson scarab
#

mainly before rework

torpid lodge
#

Ah

crimson scarab
#

but there are still quite a lot now as well

torpid lodge
#

I mean it was an interesting gameplay loop that was wildly different than anything else

#

Was fun

#

I’ll miss it

#

But i do like this too

crimson scarab
#

i remember there was always this one person in first pull of gambit, necrotic wake, cinderbrew etc saying

#

ey bro how are u so bad

#

why is ur dps so low

#

etc

#

gotta love it

buoyant cosmos
#

I hit other rogues with "why is all of your damage just blade flurry?" when I'm on my alts

dim widget
#

ye and then u mog him entire dungeon because there rest is 3-8 target pulls lmao

#

overall gapped by 50%

torpid lodge
#

Nobody plays Outlaw (generally speaking). So nobody knows

crimson scarab
#

best times ngl

upper hawk
#

wasn't bladflurry hitting corpses too for a while instead of actual targets?

#

just to add to the troll

torpid lodge
dim widget
#

yes

crimson scarab
dim widget
#

down there with sv yes

torpid lodge
buoyant cosmos
#

Survival is cool in pvp

torpid lodge
#

once you hit the bottom keep going down

buoyant cosmos
#

Outlaw not so much

crimson scarab
#

outlaw kinda sucks in pvp

#

i always play sub there

dim widget
#

only recently

#

old version with giga butterfly

#

was shitting on ppl

torpid lodge
crimson scarab
#

i never got around to playing outlaw in pvp

#

always preferred sub for pvp, always outlaw for pve

upper hawk
#

seems like there was outlaw in the most recent awc

dim widget
torpid lodge
#

Are BTE refunds lower now than before rework?

mystic berry
#

outlaw is kinda atrocious for pvp

#

The kit just doesnt work

dim widget
#

can carry the entire thing on your own

placid hollow
#

does anyone have any good import HUDs? please and thank you ❤️

cinder relic
#

And these dungeons being done rn or very short

#

So it looks a lot better than it might be

#

I have no idea how good or bad it is though

crimson scarab
#

i really hope they reintroduce AoE Blind

#

it feels so bad not having an AoE cc currently

#

i really hate it 🙁

torpid lodge
#

Ele might fly under the radar then this coming tuning hehe

#

Whatever nerf they deserve, im sure Arms will get it

dim widget
#

yes arms is way to dominant and overperforming lately

balmy topaz
#

People I think are expecting omega big notes

#

I think it's just going to be SOS changes

#

Nerf Gdudu, Nerf Unholy, Nerf Lock, Buff arms, Buff chicken

torpid lodge
#

Uhdk 30% aura nerf mainly 🤣😂

dim widget
#

they gonna make sure world warcraft the class will have atleast 1 giga omega specc

#

watchout for turbo mage buffs

cinder relic
#

Mage will receive 0 buffs

#

All 3 mage specs are overtuned rn