outlaw

[patent mirage]

omega laul

[craggy barn]

well they were aquired i guess

now

[hearty stump]

no guys the guy modeling that couch was supposed to be the rogue developer all along

[vapid sundial]

It's private

Since 2023

Yeah, but I never claimed they were the same people

Just that the budget from one could affect the other

[craggy barn]

theres a lot of factors at play

overal budget that blizzard gets from microsoft if any
how blizzard overall allocates things between the various game teams
how the wow team handles things internally

[vapid sundial]

Sis crazy

[craggy barn]

how much theyve hired and let go

[vapid sundial]

Almost like that's what I'm saying

[craggy barn]

theres been a lot of senior drain

[vapid sundial]

[hearty stump]

yeah a lot of that senior drain is called people retiring lol

[fathom bramble]

right

so it lines up if we assume that coming out of a expansion beta with the most class changes in 10 years that they immediately layed off a significant chunk of their class design team

[hearty stump]

working on a single game for 20+ years is largely unprecedented outside of WoW and maybe runescape right

everquest?

[vapid sundial]

My whole point which people seem to think doesn't happen (happens all the time in every industry) is that one team can be given more resources which leaves less for the next

[prisma lantern]

Eve devs likely getting up there.

[fathom bramble]

I think that is correct, but doesn't explain nor predict incoming tuning or lack thereof

[vapid sundial]

I never blamed it for tuning specifically, I don't think

[hearty stump]

https://tenor.com/view/bobsburgers-fox-shark-thedeepening-lastresort-gif-3436627

[fathom bramble]

if anything right now we should expect more tuning than ever given that the class design team must be larger to have done what they did in midnight

[vapid sundial]

I just used it as an example of something that had less resources

Which could have been bc or housing

[prisma lantern]

I also don't think it's necessarily bad to delay tuning.

More data is fundamentally better.

[bleak rune]

!fuu

[vapid sundial]

Or the fact they tried to do housing AND ui rework at the same time

[prisma lantern]

They also can't really in good faith tune with extra data after RWF starts.

[patent mirage]

theres no point

[vapid sundial]

Me when reading comprehension is hard

You'll get out of middle school abruptly eventually

[fathom bramble]

I see

[vapid sundial]

It's okay

[craggy barn]

the ui rework was always gonna have issues, regardless of housing

[fathom bramble]

maybe I'm all caught up now

[patent mirage]

this guys is convinced housing ruined wow

[craggy barn]

the amount of work blizzard has to put in to reach the minimum level people expected from addons pre nuke

is tremendous

[vapid sundial]

Me when I put words in others mouths

[fathom bramble]

I don't think tuning has a meaningfully lower budget/work amount that previous expansions(yet)

[vapid sundial]

This is basically what I'm dealing with lol

[fathom bramble]

if the 17th doesn't bring a similar level of tuning to the first few weeks of a typical expac though

then it's real bad

[vapid sundial]

People who have never worked management

[zinc briar]

Are devs reading class discords?

[craggy barn]

sometimes

[patent mirage]

ask yourself that

if you were a dev

would you come and talk here

[craggy barn]

talk is different

[vapid sundial]

The sub Dev does

[craggy barn]

reading is a thing people do

[fervent garden]

ha thats like athletes tweeting with fans

[mighty pivot]

better hope outlaw's dev doesn't read this chat

[fervent garden]

mutally assurred disaster

[vapid sundial]

I hope they quit

They suck

[fathom bramble]

definitely not

[patent mirage]

eXACTLY

[zinc briar]

Then tell him that what a bllsht changes they did in subt

2 buttons class

[vapid sundial]

So you're saying realz is a bigger man than you

[mighty pivot]

realz is very selective with when he shows up (for good reason)

[fathom bramble]

I just don't think it's efficient or effective to talk in here as a dev

[craggy barn]

sub was always a 2 button class tho
it just had a complex cooldown management setup

[fathom bramble]

I would much rather have a smaller chat with people that I can actually trust

[vapid sundial]

I think he lurks way more than you think

[fathom bramble]

or make a community manager collect feedback from here so I can read it

[craggy barn]

dev lurking is more likely in general than dev chatter

[vapid sundial]

Do you trust me

[mighty pivot]

the only way it would work, is if devs talked to only a few select people who are proven to not be troglodytes

[vapid sundial]

I mean, it all depends

[keen belfry]

me

[vapid sundial]

Outlaw chat makes everyone stupid

Especially awang

[frail veldt]

I mean

[zinc briar]

Who is realz?

[frail veldt]

id throw hands af

[craggy barn]

some guy dont worry about it

[frail veldt]

sounds like a great time

[vapid sundial]

Just like adc makes you complain all game

Outlaw makes you lose 50iq

[frail veldt]

outlaw players really be on like an inverse bell curve of how accurately they think about the spec

most of the people doom hard or cope/blizz simp hard

[vapid sundial]

I think from the talks lok and I have in dms I'm still relatively grounded

Outside of this chat

[frail veldt]

LOL

get got

[vapid sundial]

[fathom bramble]

I don't really blame the doomers that much

[vapid sundial]

Loktark knows what he did

The jebait

[fathom bramble]

if outlaw is your preferred spec and you have watched the pattern of outlaw never having an outlaw raid tier

[vapid sundial]

Fuk u

[fathom bramble]

it could make anyone doom

[vapid sundial]

Buddy

I haven't committed to outlaw or sub yet

Waiting on heroic week

[craggy barn]

commit or die

[vapid sundial]

I'd rather die than commit to another 9.2

[copper radish]

Yellow name you gotta play outlaw

[craggy barn]

https://tenor.com/bej1s.gif

[fathom bramble]

my prediction for heroic week is massive sin buffs and it takes over as the best rogue spec

[vapid sundial]

Possibly.

[frail veldt]

I think most of the copers just dont like the idea of being negative

[fathom bramble]

and is also far enough ahead the obr sin is above perfect play sub/law

[frail veldt]

there are some facts that can be agreed on

[vapid sundial]

I'll bet u a token on sub buffs

@fathom bramble

[frail veldt]

but which facts to focus on is whats generally disagreed about

[copper radish]

I think I’d cry if that happens lol

[dull ivy]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[copper radish]

Imagine being beat by a OBR player

[vapid sundial]

Sub cries victim so much

Blizzard doesn't know

[mighty pivot]

the darkest timeline

[fathom bramble]

if they don't tune some of these OBR optimized specs low it'll happen

[craggy barn]

isnt warlock one of the best obr specs

[copper radish]

Praying for a nice outlaw aura buff lol

[vapid sundial]

Meth?

Can I have some?

[tired marlin]

i am sorry

[fathom bramble]

I'm unaware of the current % loss, but demo had almost no loss last tier

[tired marlin]

but

what on earth is with outlaw

is energy starving suppose to be so bad?

man

[fathom bramble]

yes

you need haste to fix it

[vapid sundial]

[prisma lantern]

I mean every spec discord is filled with doomers.

Literally unholy DK is dooming right now; there convinced they'll get nerfed and also the bugs that are making them do so much damage will be fixed and they'll be arms tier.

[vapid sundial]

Literally the worst Dev

[copper radish]

Blizzard has always had a hardon for locks since tbc

[fathom bramble]

well there is definitely some dooming that isn't reasonable

[vapid sundial]

It's still honestly so unreal that they doubled down on haste tax

Like what

[mighty pivot]

doubled down but still kept it secret

[vapid sundial]

Who asked for this

Was it you @lavish shoal

[fathom bramble]

the haste cap is much less pronounced now to be fair

there is a very clear drop in haste value at 25%(total) haste, but it's not anywhere near as extreme as before

[vapid sundial]

Well they also gave it to sub

Decided outlaw had to share

[primal holly]

is outlaw still simming higher than sub after tier sets?

[vapid sundial]

Just like acro

[mighty pivot]

partly due to energy starvation though. like their solution was to gut energy to make it more appealing

[fathom bramble]

yeah

it's bad and needs to go, but I can see how a dev might see this as a half fix

especially if making us NEED haste to have energy was a goal

and not a problem

in their eyes

[unkempt dew]

What do i need to type for the mouseover kick macro?

[vapid sundial]

Just remove energy and equalize our dmg

Frfr

Energy feels like a failed, terrible resource

[copper radish]

From fuu’s sheet it looks like it

[vapid sundial]

Unless you are sin

[mighty pivot]

/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Kick (will kick your target if possible if no mousover, otherwise remove the empty [])

[vapid sundial]

Sub has 58 different ways to regen energy and sin is grandpa

Meanwhile outlaw

[primal holly]

ah amazing. i need everything i can get to convince my guild to not make me play sub😬

[copper radish]

Can do this or [@mouseover,exists][]

[unkempt dew]

What is the difference?

[prisma lantern]

The first one will not kick dead things.

Side from that, they're basically the same.

[rocky stratus]

can someone md me the fuu sheet? (okay, that sounds funny)

[copper radish]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rocky stratus]

ty

[normal forge]

Rogue set this tier is laaamee

The looks of it

[vapid sundial]

We had peak in cn and VotI

Won't get it again

Sorry

[normal forge]

What's is votl ?

[vapid sundial]

Vault of the incarnates

[normal forge]

Yeah. Idk. This one looks like a world quests set

[wild rivet]

Outlaw getting brought to raid ?

[vapid sundial]

Who knows

It's over start dooming

[fathom bramble]

any speculation based on current tuning is probably not too meaningful

17th should be a large tuning patch

[stoic crown]

I just wanna swing a cutlass, shoot a gun, and flip some coins. Why can't I do that while also doing good damage 🙁

[upper hawk]

but doesn't outlaw sim highest quite often. then the reality of downtimes and damage amps and burst aoe fights sets in?

[fathom bramble]

I would bet on outlaw being good, but sub being preferred though

[primal holly]

yes precisely @upper hawk

I just can't stand playing sub

[normal forge]

they baked Ghostly strike into our set, OMG:

(2) Set: Blade Rush's damage is increased by 30% and its damage to your primary target is increased by an additional 15%.

[fathom bramble]

damage amps add waves and downtime always manage to creep in and ruin it

[primal holly]

I don't mind it being a bit suboptimal as my guild isn't super serious

[fathom bramble]

when we are tuned high outlaw is usually still not really brought by high guilds thanks to those mechanics

but we can still be quite good

[vivid vessel]

thats just buffing br primary damage (it always had more primary damage btw xd) by 15%

[normal forge]

ure right, i re-read it, i was delulu

[fathom bramble]

a really good example of just how much these mechanics can favor certain specs is definitely dim

not just for how much it hurt outlaw, but for the fact that sub was one of the strongest specs in the game for the fight on prog

but was overall undertuned on paper and also much less good on dim when the timers changed on farm

[normal forge]

give these set bonuses

(2) Set: Blade Rush's damage is increased by 30% and its damage to your primary target is increased by an additional 15%.

(4) Set: Blade Rush's cooldown is reduced by 6 seconds and it increases your damage dealt by 5% for 8 seconds.

I can only foresee nerf inc next patch

[gaunt phoenix]

wdym? our set is not all that strong

[keen belfry]

let him cook

[normal forge]

i say this based on me topping meters on DG

[frail veldt]

whats dg

[keen belfry]

dungeon

[normal forge]

dungeon

[keen belfry]

iodiot meow

[frail veldt]

on dungeon?

[vivid vessel]

dungeon

[mighty pivot]

I agree, we've never had dooming over BR's damage being too much yet since midnight alpha. This is refreshing!

[mystic berry]

Do you guys think that outlaw is harder to balance due to the absolute plateau that is our damage profile? If its too good, it means we are doing good damage all the time?

[fathom bramble]

considering how we performed in keys on the beta I would surely hope we don't eat a nerf over Mythic 0 and heroics

[fathom bramble]

if anything it is the easiest spec to ensure it hits the designed damage target(whatever that may be)

it is all the specs with burst and other considerations that can randomly punch above their tuning

[frail veldt]

well it could also make it harder cuz how do they make us not useless at high target counts in high level keys

[dark ember]

I feel like RTB makes balancing a pain. It's the biggest smallest % chance to do the biggest % damage I can think of, but then again I'm not very smart.

[frail veldt]

I feel like thats been an issue for outlaws balance for a while

for it to be "good" in high keys

it has to be borderline OP in lower stuff

[fathom bramble]

yeah that's true

I just always assume raid still

[frail veldt]

I think our target cap dooms us to be the kings of casual content

[fathom bramble]

despite keys being such a large part of the game

[gaunt phoenix]

softcap the law

it's time

[frail veldt]

so true

[charred fox]

Make it OP
Everyone else can suffer 🤷‍♀️

[gaunt phoenix]

we earned our penance

[frail veldt]

maybe they just continue to buff bladerush

[gaunt phoenix]

blade rush has a 45% chance to recast itself

[frail veldt]

yooo

[mighty pivot]

infinitely?

[frail veldt]

summarily dispatch affects blade rush?

[fathom bramble]

each target hit by blade rush refunds 5% of its cooldown

[frail veldt]

yoooooo

blade rush increases bladeflurry cleave by 2% per target hit by blade rush

[upper hawk]

Speaking of bladderrush I’ve had too much coffee

[near rock]

god I want some coffee now..

[vapid sundial]

Sure

Soft cap now starts at 3

[normal forge]

increase jackpot to 10% and tune us around that, kek

[indigo token]

this sucks

am I just impatient or is midnights leveling really slow and boring

[normal forge]

it took me like 2 and half days

[indigo token]

ive been at it for a few days becuase im so bored by it

[bright ferry]

Is there a hidden rtb buffer messing with Loaded Dice, somehow?

[gaunt phoenix]

what do you mean?

[indigo token]

oh my fucking god im still at level 84 💔 i hate ts

i already did 2 areas

[bright ferry]

I don't know, I happend to be in a situation where my loaded dice didn't upgrade my rtb

[fathom bramble]

you will need to queue dungeons or do some side quests

additionally you should do every delve 1 time and save the quest for level 88/89

[vivid vessel]

i think you missed how rtb works

[fathom bramble]

you can also optionally do crafting at level 88/89 for efficient exp

[vivid vessel]

when you press rtb it will always override tyour current buff

with a new one

loaded dice just make sure the new one you roll will be + 1

[indigo token]

im gonna be real I think thats dumb

[fathom bramble]

yeah it is

[gaunt phoenix]

Loaded dice is still a new random roll, it doesnt upgrade your existing roll

[vivid vessel]

it wont take into account the old buff you had before yourolled

[indigo token]

tbf i come from 14 but i think doing the msq should get you to max

[fathom bramble]

you can optionally do it though up to you

the main quest use to be longer in this game and take you to max

now they expect you to do some side quests in the same area as the main quest to get there

[bright ferry]

yeah, I may have misunderstand how it works, even right now : how can my new roll be +1 without taking into account my actyal buff?

[indigo token]

the thing is that those quests are saved for alts to get rep and exp efficiently

its weird idk

[vivid vessel]

well you can roll between 1 and 4 right

[bright ferry]

yes

[vivid vessel]

if you roll 1 it will be 2

[gaunt phoenix]

it does a random roll, and then bumps whatever result it would have been by +1

[vivid vessel]

thats it

[bright ferry]

ooooh

So nothing to do with my actual buff

[gaunt phoenix]

yeh

[bright ferry]

thanks!!

I thought the upgrade was based on my actual rtb buff

[near rock]

visual profile comparisons vs last tier for fun

[gaunt phoenix]

prep

[glass mortar]

5.8m to 106k

looka the massive nerf

[lime lake]

outlaw burst holy moly

[glass mortar]

how bad they did us zac

[glass mortar]

now imagine if bte buff was working for autos

during lust your auto attacks would ASCEND

[vivid vessel]

\

\

WTF

NERF OUTLAW

[balmy topaz]

We are so broken

Bricked my start guys gg

Can I enchant this or will the enchant go when I make it mythic I can't remember

[random stirrup]

you can enchant now

[vivid vessel]

wtf bro already crafted !

thats crazy

cray cray !

[opaque niche]

so are people following larias guide and crafting now then

[balmy topaz]

BRICKED START GG

[fathom bramble]

larias guide says to craft without spark

[opaque niche]

mb just noticed he used spark

[indigo token]

whos larias

[vivid vessel]

some random

[glass mortar]

they mean laringitus

[vivid vessel]

i wouldnt trust that guy

larios

[glass mortar]

latias

[balmy topaz]

Says craft with no?

[vivid vessel]

latitos

[glass mortar]

ludacris

[fathom bramble]

some dude that puts out one of the most used tier start guides every tier

[vivid vessel]

bro didnt read gg

[glass mortar]

hes my ex RL and he makes cute start of patch guides

[gaunt phoenix]

lariat

your ex?

[glass mortar]

yup

[gaunt phoenix]

the lore.,.

[indigo token]

aint no way

[glass mortar]

im not good enough for them anymore....

washed......

[balmy topaz]

You can't have embel without spark

[glass mortar]

ex raid leader not ex real life

[indigo token]

oh

[gaunt phoenix]

oh

[indigo token]

lame

[glass mortar]

if we were dating we'd make the 24 hour news channel i can gaurentee u that

[fathom bramble]

that's probably a reasonable path anyway

[vivid vessel]

@upper surge what do i craft bud

[fathom bramble]

with the number of sparks we have almost everyone will make a sword on myth week

[upper surge]

I don't play outlaw don't ask me

[vivid vessel]

wtf

[glass mortar]

i think its hard to messup using a spark on a DW class

[vivid vessel]

you have to tell me man

[glass mortar]

makes more sense for other guys

[fathom bramble]

it just seems like unnecessary risk if you don't have your spec choice set in stone

[glass mortar]

or if u cant use ur mh as ur oh when u replace it

[proven ocean]

@upper surge what do i craft

[glass mortar]

or if theres some chance u wont play outlaw yea

[proven ocean]

do i do m0s now

or before reset

[random stirrup]

outlaw does seem a bit worse to craft on rn since you want dagger oh right

[balmy topaz]

I made with no crests

[random stirrup]

its a bit better nowadays

[vivid vessel]

no you wait 3 weeks for m0

[proven ocean]

since u know better

[upper surge]

If you were One of the two good rogue specs you could just craft a dagger

[proven ocean]

3 weeks!

wtf !

[indigo token]

did they not fix that

[gaunt phoenix]

@upper surge twist here is writing fanfiction about being your ex, thoughts?

[upper surge]

But since you're the garbage rogue specialization who knows

[indigo token]

oh my fucking god bruh

[balmy topaz]

Outlaw only gg

[random stirrup]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.

It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.

[random stirrup]

1% now!

[fathom bramble]

1st craft for law can also just be a dagger so

[random stirrup]

not 0.2

[proven ocean]

guys i heard rwf uses larias's guides

[upper surge]

We love twist

[proven ocean]

maybe thats how we can finally be good at wow

!!!

[fathom bramble]

dagger from raid has junk stats anyway

[vivid vessel]

who tf is twist

you guys mean weran

[fathom bramble]

so you will want a crafted one eventually

[balmy topaz]

Stricktly only larias guides as well

[proven ocean]

@gaunt phoenix who tf is twist

?!

[upper surge]

Exactly, which is why zero will never be good

[vivid vessel]

guys how does the release work i forgot

[proven ocean]

exactly

[vivid vessel]

which raid do we do first

etc

[balmy topaz]

Same bro no clue

[upper surge]

Zac I swear to God

[balmy topaz]

I follow my RL

[proven ocean]

larias guide covers everything

!!!

[glass mortar]

its like a puzzle they dont tell u which bosses are up and u gotta run around and figure out who can be killed or not

[vivid vessel]

oh is it in the guide ?

i mean common bro

[proven ocean]

ye

it is

[vivid vessel]

you expect me to read it

[glass mortar]

gunna be a wild world first race i cant wait

[proven ocean]

zac did u know that

[vivid vessel]

why would i do that

[proven ocean]

larias played better wow than me in the past 6 months

!!!

[vivid vessel]

wtf

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

zeross

im watching one piece

the tv show

[fathom bramble]

what if we see outlaw on a rwf boss for the first time since legion?

[proven ocean]

ur not watching the anime

[vivid vessel]

they just put out s2

[proven ocean]

so it doesnt count

[vivid vessel]

no

[proven ocean]

i hate the tv show

[vivid vessel]

i dont like the anime

[frail veldt]

@vivid vessel have you seen true detective. I just started watching it and its reaaaally fucking good so far

[glass mortar]

i mean i think we'd all be happy i just dont see it happening

[proven ocean]

cooked za c

[vivid vessel]

yes a few seaosns

[glass mortar]

thats the secret hope every tier

[proven ocean]

anime is way better

[vivid vessel]

i stopped watching

i dont rmemeber

[frail veldt]

yeah the later seasons when the cast changes seems eh

[fathom bramble]

do you know what we were in rwf for in legion?

it's actually quite funny

[proven ocean]

but

[glass mortar]

let me think

[proven ocean]

anime one piece early on

[glass mortar]

god that was so long ago

[proven ocean]

is prob one of the worst watches ive had

pure boring content

[glass mortar]

give me a hint what season was it

[fathom bramble]

season 1

[glass mortar]

oh

[fathom bramble]

penultimate boss

[frail veldt]

but the early ones with woody harrelson and matthew mconaughey hella good

[vivid vessel]

ytes

[glass mortar]

cenarius

[vivid vessel]

i love mconaughey

he is one of my favorite guy

[frail veldt]

ye hes very good

[proven ocean]

mcnuggets?

now i wanna mcdonalds

[frail veldt]

I hvaent seen dallas buyers club yet

[proven ocean]

wtf

[glass mortar]

idk r u trying to imply to me that the design of xavius wasnt good enough for outlaw to also be in on it?

full cd reset hello lok????

[fathom bramble]

true bearing use to effect cloak of shadows so they had outlaws spam soaking the roots

or just 1 outlaw

[glass mortar]

yea thatll track

[proven ocean]

wait i forgot that was a thing

plz take more stuff from outlaw!

ty

!!!

[fathom bramble]

I mean having cloak every 20-30 seconds was definitely a problem

[vapid sundial]

oh hey zeross here to doom now too

lets fkn go

[glass mortar]

u think if we reee hard enough we can get them to move cloak back to a 1m cd

kinda crazy it was a 1m cd for so long

[fathom bramble]

move cheat back to 90 seconds

[glass mortar]

we've lost so much passive tankiness now

and stuff like ams has power crept so much

give us 1m cloak back guys....

[vapid sundial]

I had a dk telling me 'you guys are fine, still like the 2nd tankiest spec !

[proven ocean]

atleast im not completely the opposite

[vapid sundial]

lol

[glass mortar]

xd

[proven ocean]

not to mention who it is

[vapid sundial]

We know

who you mean

ross

you dont even need to say

blizzards #1 shill

[proven ocean]

[vapid sundial]

having that nickname is unlucky

[charred fox]

Are we the bald headed step child of rogue specs ????????????

[vivid vessel]

dont listen to that loriak guy

he is just a hater

[tropic zephyr]

imagine shilling dagger specs

[vapid sundial]

you can craft a dagger on outlaw, too

what a bozo

[charred fox]

The Lorax guy ?

[vivid vessel]

ye that laricock

[tropic zephyr]

the df neck gen embellish guy

[vivid vessel]

dont listen to what he is saying

[upper surge]

Yes

[vapid sundial]

no

You said it wrong

Sub is the youngest

sin is the oldest

outlaw is the middle child

[vivid vessel]

ok bud but what do i craft

[upper surge]

No because I'm never certain if you actually can read

[vapid sundial]

Listen buddy you're talking to the #1 outlaw

who cares if he loses to tank in dmg

[crisp elm]

can some1 link the guide

nbvm

found it

[river wing]

is that supposed to be better or worse than red-headed

[proven ocean]

Says the guy who can’t even write a useful thing

[vivid vessel]

hey wtf

why are you mean to the chariot guy

[upper surge]

No critical thinking skills

[charred fox]

Fire crotch might actually be worse 🤔

[vapid sundial]

flames someone

gets flamed back

calls that person stupid for flaming

hallO?

[vivid vessel]

thats that game no

with aliens

and guys with guns

in spaceships

[vapid sundial]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

you watched the tv show ?

it wasnt that good

[vapid sundial]

No

[vivid vessel]

i barely remmeber it

[vapid sundial]

i didnt trust them

and glad i didnt

forcing romance on a character that is chemically castrated btw

zac

@vivid vessel

is outlaw still losing to tank

do u think

xdd

[vivid vessel]

i mean i dont doubt it

we lost to tank with 50% bf

how are we supposed to win with 30%

[vapid sundial]

how funny would it be if bear

doesnt get nerfed

and does 50% more than outlaw overall

[glass mortar]

50% more then half the specs in the game overall

bear is pretty funny

[agile orchid]

Don’t be greedy, you have blade rush now

[mystic berry]

I think its more than 50%

hilarious spec, guardian

I wonder how their class discord is coping with doomsday approaching

[stuck magnet]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[normal forge]

how do u get this set? is it some sort of pvp?

[glass mortar]

thats the warmode set

probably get it from pvp wqs and the war mode vendor

[fathom bramble]

yeah look for the pvp WQs in voidstorm or wait for the actual season to start so you can earn the war mode currency for it

[glass mortar]

i think u see the wqs even in non warmode ive def noticed them up north in voidstorm

[fathom bramble]

yeah

not only can you see them, but they all have PvE objectives to complete them outside warmode

[glass mortar]

thats good

all pvp wqs i know of always have a pve way to complete them but usually its tuned quite shit

sometimes u run around for like 20 minutes looking for the mobs u need to clear for completion cause its obviously tuned for pvping

[lime lake]

cant believe rogues are discussing how to get pvp quests done in pve

[glass mortar]

u couldnt pay me to pvp on this outlaw

[fathom bramble]

world pvp is dead

[glass mortar]

no sustain, no short evasion, no short vanish, no burst,

[mystic berry]

This is the outlaw channel

[fathom bramble]

everything is roving packs of 5 alliance that are all healers or tanks

[mystic berry]

We dont pvp

[lime lake]

https://klipy.com/gifs/fadding-homelander

rogues forgetting the time honored tradition of ganking someone while they're questing

[mystic berry]

I would gank people if my kit wasnt awful for it

Another benefit of the sub rogue

[vapid sundial]

Alliance have no honor

[mystic berry]

Privileged spec

[vapid sundial]

as loktark said, they always have a full party

[lime lake]

thats definitely annoying

[glass mortar]

so does the horde if ur playing on alliance

[vapid sundial]

no

[lime lake]

but this early in the expansion theres a ton of people outside of that too

it devolves into just that later

[glass mortar]

u wanna know the secret reason wpvp is so awful

[vapid sundial]

i dont see horde in parties of 5 as often

[glass mortar]

sharding incentivizes people to ditch shards that have unfavorable odds to them

[vapid sundial]

last time i tried to gank someone i legit had 10 ally run over and hit me

[glass mortar]

so if someone forms a 10m group farming people in a world quest

[vapid sundial]

unironically

[glass mortar]

all the horde will just leave

join parties to do it (that then phases them to other shards)

so now they are in a shard where they are permafarming the other faction as the party but u have no allies to fight with u in ur shard

[vapid sundial]

I mean even in classic

[mystic berry]

Found plenty of solo players in wm

[vapid sundial]

last time i ganked soemone

we were both lvl 72

and

this guy

dies to me and goes main

bc he is mad he died while leveling

[fathom bramble]

I went to the voidstorm pvp quests and there was 2 bears with 3 healers on the horde portal into the zone

and nothing but packs of 5 alliance and 0 horde to be seen anywhere

[vapid sundial]

world pvp is a joke classic or retail

[fathom bramble]

I wasonl there for like 60-90 minute so sample size etc

but still

[glass mortar]

i believe u when u say all u see is packs of the other faction

i have wpvped all my life in this game tho

[lime lake]

ive had a ton of fun in voidstorm pvping, theres always a random group of alliance doing its thing but theres also a ton of solo players this early on

[glass mortar]

never cared about faction just played where my guild was

it was always equal to both sides once they added sharding

[lime lake]

granted i did it on sub rogue bc imagine not playing sub rogue in pvp

[glass mortar]

if ur a solo player in an area ur more likely to run into parties of the other faction and none of ur own

[vapid sundial]

what do you mean

[glass mortar]

because everyone on ur faction joining parties is sharding out

[vapid sundial]

outlaw is so fun in cleave comp

[fathom bramble]

idk when you show up to the warmode crate and there is already 10-15 alliance on it and no horde even in the air above it

I think a lot of horde players in warmode are just not engaging with warmode

so everyone in the zone that is doing warmode objectives is alliance

[glass mortar]

maybe its server specific or something idk

i play alliance rn and i havent gotten a warcrate since s2

now i didnt really hunt them in s3, but the last month or so before expac i was flying around finishing up my achievements

and horde had 30 people on every single crate spawn

i never got one

its the same regardless of which side ur on

its just solo players who get screwed

but i cant prove that to u

just my own experience

[vapid sundial]

[ancient cobalt]

as an alliance i have never seen a h orde grab the warcrate

[vapid sundial]

like i said

ally have no honor

1v5 or run

no inbetween

[vivid vessel]

i dont even know if im alliance or horde bro

[fallow hinge]

why not be neither

[vapid sundial]

you are ally

last i checked

[fickle relic]

a neutral panda?

[fickle relic]

you got em

[vivid vessel]

liz hi

[ancient cobalt]

chat... why in the sims outlaw only has 1 embellish on omfgg

[vivid vessel]

whats good

been a long time

[fallow hinge]

it's been done by that one guy who dinged max in the panda starting zone off herbing and mining

[vapid sundial]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fallow hinge]

monster hunter

[fickle relic]

yep, i heard about him

crazy guy

[fathom bramble]

yeah I just wish the system had literally any tools at all to make being solo or a small group more reasonable

[fallow hinge]

there is

[fathom bramble]

we can't even burst 1 guy and die/run anymore since no one does enough damage to kill healers/tanks in the open world

[fallow hinge]

it's called the toggle warmode button

[fathom bramble]

yeah I already opted out after they ruined it

it is what it is

[vapid sundial]

depends if u like playing games that run like hot ass

but i guess he plays wow so

[fathom bramble]

I use to be a primarily warmode gamer

[fallow hinge]

Wilds plays buttery smooth after the anniversary patch yo

[fathom bramble]

but it has evolved in a negative way over the last 8 or so years idk

[fallow hinge]

also, world and rise both run really well on my rig

[glass mortar]

yea the design of pvp has never really paid attention to warmode but the way the current stuff incentivizes making a big raid or party to farm the other faction even trying to do the event

[vapid sundial]

a whole year later

[glass mortar]

makes me miss bfa

[vapid sundial]

[glass mortar]

bfa has some sick wpvp

best wpvp ive had since cata

[fallow hinge]

why does the timeline matter?

[fathom bramble]

bfa was cool

legion was very funny

[vapid sundial]

Taking that long to fix major performance issues is kind of bad

[fallow hinge]

By the time I got into wilds, the optimisation issues just weren't there for me

[fallow hinge]

tell that to gearbox or GGG

[vapid sundial]

okay but i had the game day 1

[vapid sundial]

gearbox literally put out a patch day 1

what are you yapping about

[fallow hinge]

the patch that made it worse for almost as many people as it helped?

[vapid sundial]

DOnt know anyone who it made the game run worse for

[fallow hinge]

the majority of people I knew who got 4 on release just weren't able to play it after the patch

some issue with the upscaling or something, icr it's been a while

in any case, game doesn't run like ass for me and I think it's a very good game

zac asked me what's good, I answered

[vapid sundial]

i dont think zac would like mh tho

tbh

[fallow hinge]

idk, it has dual blades

[fathom bramble]

probably not

[fallow hinge]

I can see zac being a DB main

[fathom bramble]

all the combat is very clunky and slow

unless it changed since the beta test idk

[glass mortar]

big swings and big windups

[fallow hinge]

depends on weapon tbh

[vapid sundial]

zac seems more like a devil may cry guy

[glass mortar]

zac likes faster paced stuff

nah

[fallow hinge]

DB is hella fast paced

[glass mortar]

ddr5 guy

[fathom bramble]

even DB felt slow to me

with a ton of animation locking

on the early access test*

[glass mortar]

oh yea he'd haaaaate animation locking

wow is so fluid movement wise

[fallow hinge]

animation locking is a fair point, but it's also kinda critical in the game balance

risk vs reward etc

[fathom bramble]

yeah I know people tell me it's just how monster hunter is

like it or hate it

[fallow hinge]

I'm a masher so it's taken me a lot of getting used to

but I've solo'd every 10* quest in the game now so I think I can safely say I'm making good headway on breaking that habit

some weapons do feel ungodly slow though. Spending 80% of a hunt running around in a circle with greatsword waiting for an opening you can punish, then doing all of your damage in true charge windows

just.. not for me

SNS is super fluid, actually. Zac might like that, almost no animation locking and really good uptime on sticking to a monster

and feels pretty fast

[glass mortar]

is there any competative aspects in MH like a leaderboard or something

[fallow hinge]

there's speedrunners, yeah

[glass mortar]

i dont know if theres any Single player games zac even likes

if there isnt a direct leaderboard ingame to compete vs people with

[fallow hinge]

and challenge quests happen on occasion

which are time attack quests with leaderboards

[glass mortar]

we tried to get him playing some single player games on prepatch

he went to league instead

[fallow hinge]

there's a challenge quest arch-tempered arkveld in like.. a week

[fathom bramble]

maybe clunky isn't fair, but it all feels very locked down in a way that essentially ruins the game for me

[fallow hinge]

do you remember what weapons you were using?

[glass mortar]

yea games always just felt clunky to pilot for me

[fathom bramble]

and the monster hunterers in my friend group were basically like "it's not for everyone" or "you just have to get use to it"

[fallow hinge]

because weapon choice makes a staggering difference

[glass mortar]

i played on my friends playstation last year when he got it

[fathom bramble]

and in the end I just decided it's not for me after 15 hours of the beta

I tried everthing that looked fast

didn't try any ranged weps

[fallow hinge]

if I play sword and shield, I'd say less than 5% of my time is animation locking and that's only my perfect rush combos when I get a big opening

dual blades has a lot of animation commitment

[fathom bramble]

I swapped off sword and shield very fast so I'll admit I don't really remember it that well

[fallow hinge]

LBG has very little, bow has some but it's brief

[fathom bramble]

I'm also unsure of what may have changed since the beta

[fallow hinge]

SnS feels amazing, especially now it can perfect guard

parry timings to not interrupt the flow etc

a decent amount of the weapons have SOME animation commitment though, so I get you on that

and by animation commitments I'm talking like more than a momentary stop in place for something

like bow's power volley stops you moving for like half a second while you send out a big fan of arrows

so I don't count that, it's just a natural part of the combat loop

but like, dragon piercer has a longer wind up. Feels really satisfying to send one down the full length of a long boi, but not without risk as you're rooted for the animation

also a lot of the longer animations with like, big costs to them but big damage get super armour, which is a damage reduction and makes you unstoppable during it so you can't get knocked out of your big combo finisher

end of the day, it's not a game for everyone, I'll 100% agree with that. I was against it for the longest time until I tried world

[fathom bramble]

yeah like when I look at my preferred builds in other games I tend to avoid anything with significant animation lockdowns or cast times

and then commitment and lockdowns is core to monster hunter from my understanding

there is no weapon that is what I would normally pick in other games

like poe I end up literally never using channeling skills and almost always play a character that can be moving/dodging while still dealing damage

but I'm a big believer in not everything is for everyone

[vapid sundial]

When you accidentaly do 1 too many inputs as DB so you sit there and slash the x pattern

and then get smacked across the screen

[fathom bramble]

and would never ask nor expect a thing I don't play to get changed for me

[fallow hinge]

(I played Tri on the wii like 15 years ago and didn't like that I needed materials for upgrades I could only get from a map that was accessed from a timed quest and thought "screw this bs")

[vapid sundial]

https://giphy.com/gifs/nouvellesimages-ensi-ecole-des-nouvelles-images-DGmGFJVliDqMo52RHf

katana users

[fallow hinge]

what's wrong with longsword?

I played a lot of LS in world :P

[vapid sundial]

you mfs

are worthless

and stun me nonstop

[fallow hinge]

I run shockproof

so not me

[vapid sundial]

bozo teammates kept bonking me

[fallow hinge]

but yes, longsword is a bit of a devil for flinching friendlies

that and sticky hbg

or cluster hbg

or just... hbg

screw hbg users

it's not even good in wilds

[vapid sundial]

i try to leave DB

and i always come back

[fallow hinge]

me with bow and lbg

[vapid sundial]

tho

tbf

i didnt get very far in wilds

cuz the performance wsa ASS

[fallow hinge]

I wanna try db, the wound pops look so satisfying

[fallow hinge]

might be worth giving it another pop, see if the performance is better for ya

[vapid sundial]

my fav part of db is rollin dowm soemthings spine

and doing the spinny

[fallow hinge]

yeah the spine roll wound break is nuts

especially on something like Jin Dahaad

aka the longest boi

[vapid sundial]

i think it wsa the

safi dbs?

i forget which one

but doing like 2 spine rolls

[vapid sundial]

basically killed everything

was so funny

[fallow hinge]

look how long that boi is

god I hated safi weapons existing

I started worlds years after the hype, so finding safi lobbies was impossible

[vapid sundial]

I mean

i just modded it

bc people were bad

cba

[fallow hinge]

I ended up duoing safi once for 7 rewards, got safi's aquashot (the thing I wanted) first time and said "never again"

[vapid sundial]

all of my friends had done it on PS

[fallow hinge]

we spent like 3 hours just going in trying to get one or two part breaks per

[vapid sundial]

and didnt really want to do it on pc

[fallow hinge]

draining the energy for that objective

then when we got to 7 I said "nah I'm done"

[vapid sundial]

and i am NOT doing that with randoms

[fallow hinge]

no, safi with randoms is pain

at least gogmazios is soloable in wilds

he's a pain in the ass, and I hate how his artian weapon upgrades have made most other weapons useless

[vapid sundial]

iirc

i made my character in wilds

the most hideous thing ever

[fallow hinge]

https://youtu.be/0CkLdMaKjl0?si=B9b5kjw4hR79zW7N&t=369

at timestamp (6:09), Ryker

just watch that wound pop

[daring yoke]

any crafting tips for outlaw, when would be best to craft or save?

[charred fox]

We don’t know because they don’t love us

We are bald and red headed apparently

[glass mortar]

there is no cost to saving

there is potential costs to spending

but if u are certain u will play outlaw no matter what u can just do a weapon

you'll need to recraft it once higher crests drop obv

[vapid sundial]

@fallow hinge i get more fps in bl4 than mhw

[soft abyss]

Isn't re crafting also costing gold though? Why not wait for mythic week if you don't need the dmg

[glass mortar]

yes it does cost gold and mats

[daring yoke]

yeah thats why i asked. cuz im broke lol

[keen belfry]

i just got beat down by a capybara

[glass mortar]

i mean if u dont want to spend more money then dont craft a weapon until u can craft at the ilvl it will sit at

theres is nothing that needs a crafted item this week

[keen belfry]

]

look at this ccapy

[glass mortar]

LOL

i think theres some achievement about pissing off the loa of cappys

and dying

maybe u caused that?

shoulda let him kill u smh

[keen belfry]

shit

[vapid sundial]

that animation

is so funny to me

wtf is up with the random cappybara obsession in the gaming industry

[glass mortar]

watch urself or ull end up like awang bozo

[next wedge]

theyre cool

[glass mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-capybara-tanks-car-crash-explosion-gif-25705476

[vapid sundial]

id win

[glass mortar]

yea ur gunna end up just like the last guy to say that

😠

[next wedge]

https://tenor.com/view/goon-gojo-anime-jjk-gojoedit-gif-14620067965573893258

[glass mortar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492443619123396610/1434697862045892757/name-this-hypothetical-country-spread-across-eight-parallel-v0-9v57mzz1fwyf1.webp?ex=69b15d41&is=69b00bc1&hm=496d1190d6db410ffa53b70216cd8069b3e4eac6bca6dffa8036c190f8ad65ed&

[keen belfry]

holy fuck

[smoky whale]

Yo guys there's any video for a guide for the new outlaw?

[charred fox]

Some on YouTube
But there is a guide in the #outlaw-faq

[mighty pivot]

but in wow they call them just caparas

[summer nimbus]

does anyone who use unhalted unit frames know how to turn off the energy number on the healthbar

[fathom bramble]

the text guide in this discord will probably always be the most accurate available guide

video guides usually have a problem with not getting updated just due to the format

[glass mortar]

we need our vulpera guide maker

[smoky whale]

hm understable

[glass mortar]

[copper radish]

why is every prey veteran piece im getting crit/mastery..... where the haste at

[vapid sundial]

did he quit

do i need to take up the mantle

[copper radish]

i got the crit/verse sword....

[thorn parrot]

Is Overflowing Purse (in hero talents) dog water?

[glass mortar]

llmch? i havent seen them around since the game came out, mayb taking a break, but they also didnt even do a TWW guide so its mostly a joke

[fathom bramble]

unlucky

[vapid sundial]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075234853777322054/1480809666631041066/image.png?ex=69b106f8&is=69afb578&hm=46c4204192e1e81b26bbd4151d7c713e7a0025c5d0fac9cc02d431be9e016935&

my time to shine then

[glass mortar]

dont think they gunna make any more guides

[fathom bramble]

yes

[charred fox]

Cool mog

[fathom bramble]

I tried to double check what overflowing purse does to give you some math but my talent page is sick

[vapid sundial]

making the pants and chest match is awful

[fathom bramble]

it's like almost no extra coins though

[frail veldt]

What do yall drop to pick up prep in the m+ build?

[mighty pivot]

already playing 12.1

[glass mortar]

yea next expacs borrowed power looks fire

"which talents are available are randomly assigned to you whenever you level up"

[vapid sundial]

the borrowed power next expac is @vivid vessel sits on your lap and plays for u

ai getting craezy

[formal knot]

borrowing talents from other class talent trees

[lime lake]

Im glad recuperator survived the 1 am purge

[glass mortar]

no, stealing talents from their class tree

[mighty pivot]

rogue-like talent tree

[vapid sundial]

NOOOOOOO

[mighty pivot]

(get it? because rogue)

[vapid sundial]

I WAS BOUT TO Q

[glass mortar]

ur saved

[vapid sundial]

[glass mortar]

go do some abundance

go make a video guide

[lime lake]

Now you can Q.Q

[vapid sundial]

[lime lake]

[wooden pilot]

is there a way to hide the opp proc ui element above my char?

[fathom bramble]

options, Search: spell alert opacity

set to 0% I think

and it will be gone

[glass mortar]

yea

kinda crazy how useless the default proc ui is for outlaw

its ok tho we've only had FtH 3 expacs in a row now

maybe its not permanent or something or theyll get around to fixing it eventually

[wooden pilot]

goat goat

[frail veldt]

Does it not track opp?

[fickle relic]

isn't 1 point in heavy hitter better than 2 points in sd?

[frail veldt]

The tree has been simmed and optimized

What you see is what did the most damage in sims lol

[wintry solar]

It's been found nothing matters and every talent is equal capstones included

Rendering the tree useless

I'm being half sarcastic

[frail veldt]

But you can test it out yourself ofc

[fickle relic]

well if it has been simmed, then i have no more questions

[glass mortar]

if opp is procced u get a big glowy thing above ur head

thats it

it has no interaction with fth or anything, just if u have any stacks of opp ever u get the shiny thing

basically the same proc icon it was in legion when we got opportunity

[copper radish]

Dispatcher the 🐐

[fickle relic]

yh i see now

and it's only st with aoe build

oh wait

nvm it isn't

is this legal?

[thorn parrot]

I mean how...

[lime lake]

well it was a 172:16 pull so the mage probably walked away from the keyboard

[thorn parrot]

Lmfao

[lime lake]

got bored and left

[mighty pivot]

or died of old age

[wintry solar]

He'll more than make up for it next pull

[fickle relic]

it was that nasty disorient pull

probb got disoriented

i tried sub out and my aoe dps was like 1\3 of that

maybe slightly more

[frail veldt]

Aaaah yeah you mean you want something to indicate each set of stacks

Honestly why does it go to 6

V dumb

OPP should be one talent point

And stack to two

[glass mortar]

Even just two

One for each 3 stacks

Would do it

the default one is nigh worthless now a day

[glass mortar]

Prob just flavor or idk

Maybe they thought there'd actually be interesting choices between 1 and 2 fth but 1 fth is just ass idk delet

[frail veldt]

Im always torn between referring to the opp stacks as one stack and two stack vs 3 stack and 6 stack

[scarlet drum]

Am I supposed to be doing tank damage...?

[lime lake]

depends on the tank

you'd be lucky to do some tanks damage atm

[tulip walrus]

Is the buff of simc a bit of a problem?

crit and ver

[cinder relic]

A lot of tanks do a lot of damage

[scarlet drum]

I am significantly behind mage and paladin in even moderately sized packs now.

Like 4-5 targets.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong lol

[frail veldt]

What's a good overall once you're like 240ilvl, 70-80k?

[bleak berry]

is outlaw the best spec rn?

[lime lake]

in some ways probably

i cant think of them

[frail veldt]

In other ways probably not

[lime lake]

but they exist im sure

[junior coral]

freightrunner's flask sucks for us huh

the trinket

[bleak berry]

i just saw the spreadsheet I thought sub was the best rn

[lime lake]

i'd say best rogue spec for using two swords but now they all can do that so

[hollow copper]

if i have vet mh is it better to go sub loot spec or stay in outlaw?

[tribal cosmos]

yo why these mages at 200k already

fuckin illegal

[next veldt]

!wangbar

[vapid sundial]

ive got a wang bar for you right here

!addons

wtf!

what is it

!addon

[next veldt]

MOROES???

!wa

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[vapid sundial]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[vapid sundial]

wa stll works

i see

[junior coral]

WA?

huh

[untold wadi]

how do u say WA

out loud

"woz"

double-you A's

"ways"

"voz"

[wintry solar]

I say weak auras

[vapid sundial]

u dont

i read it as

weak auras

like a real human

and not an npc

[frail veldt]

what ilvl do we replace reshii wraps?

[wintry solar]

Unless you're a valley girl

[frail veldt]

or is it just replace assap

[vapid sundial]

vali girls

are npc

:^)

[frail veldt]

weakaura

[untold wadi]

idk sometimes i read WA in my head and try and say w-a for some reason

[tiny onyx]

Is it just me or does our 2/4pc raid set seem kinda underwhelming?

[untold wadi]

first tier moment