outlaw

[vivid vessel]

he linked outlaw topping on gfights were we padded on adds

[lime lake]

The argument isn't it was the best prog spec, its that it was fine

[cinder relic]

Nexus princess is padding fight?

Weird

[vivid vessel]

no and thats the one i gave you

[cinder relic]

That was a padding tier

Like, a lot of the hard fights were about vomiting aoe damage

[vivid vessel]

tell me you believe outlaw was good on brood

with a straight face

[cinder relic]

Thank you

[vivid vessel]

especially since outlaw got buffed later on btw

[cinder relic]

Outlaw was fine on brood, I think sins funnel was more valuable, but it if your comp could support it Outlaw could have been decent, mostly post buffs though

[frail veldt]

I think the original argument was that outlaw is rarely the "good" rogue spec for prog

[cinder relic]

Rogue got chain buffed that tier for sure

[cinder relic]

This is true, I don't think anybody disagrees

[vivid vessel]

i mean i didnt say outlaw wasnt fine either anywya

[cinder relic]

My entire point has been Outlaw is "Usually slightly worse/slightly better"

[keen belfry]

outlaw was so sick on nexus kyveza

[lime lake]

I think everyone in this conversation is arguing a different point actually

[vivid vessel]

i just said it was still the worse rogue spec

[keen belfry]

only melee with 100% uptime

[cinder relic]

In nerubar, Outlaw was slightly worse/slightly better

Like in an ideal, contextless vacuum, even on prog, Outlaw was the best spec to play on kyveza

But you know, dagger craft exists

[vivid vessel]

on prog it wasnt better on a ny fight other than nexus

and maybe bloodhound

outlaw was good on bloodhound

[desert tendon]

Bringing the buff and being able to press feint

[cinder relic]

sikran it would have been correct too

But again, dagger craft, 3rd boss

[vivid vessel]

i mean maybe idk it was impossible to play outlaw on third boss

and even then it wasnt neccesseraly better tho

it was just

well fine

same shit

but you dont have a weapon or gear for the spec anywya so

[cinder relic]

which is my point lol

It's like, slightly worse/slightly better

[leaden sonnet]

Also just because its not the best rogue spec doesnt mean the spec is garbage. If assa was the #1 spec in the entire game and outlaw was #5 its still more than fine, but in this context you would claim its awful

[cinder relic]

It has hurdles due to crafting, comfort

[frail veldt]

But it's not played unless it's waaaay better

Which means it sucks

[cinder relic]

No?

I mean vault, objectively, was an Outlaw tier, Outside of specifically razs if your comp needed Subs profile

Guess what was played by a majority of rogues? Sub lol

[vivid vessel]

that was also the last time outlaw had its niche

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/джона-хилл-jonah-hill-facepalm-рука-лицо-долоня-обличчя-gif-7167197686338732060

[vivid vessel]

what

im wrong ?

back then outlaw had the cleave niche

im not wrong

you looked at a fight like primal council or brood

or even razageth platforms

and you would think

ok

outlaw is good on this

cause outlaw is the cleave spec

this isnt the case anymore cause both sin and sub got cleave

and basically every spec in the game

i mean maybe we will get our cleave tuned back up one day and that might be the case if sin and sub cleave get nerfed enough

[frail veldt]

Outlaw is only tuned fairly when it's like 10% ahead of the other two rogue specs lol

[vivid vessel]

but we just got out of an expac with PC and 50% bf

and we are going into midngiht with 30% bf

and no pc

we werent the cleave spec in tww i dont see how that could ever change

so yes we lost our only niches

i do consider acro to also be a niche

was a cool thing

[lime lake]

Acro

[frail veldt]

Guy promised he's crafting sword first

[strange kelp]

I mean I agree with this, sin more then sub does feel like it has a lot of overlap with what outlaws dmg profile was

[vapid sundial]

Outlaw could do 50% more

and people still wouldnt play it

[vivid vessel]

i mean sub all of tww did cleave better than outlaw

and it did good cleave

burst cleave

i got informed that might be changing

but i mean outlaw cleave also got gutted so

[strange kelp]

Yeah but it was burst not sustained so I could say it's a different profile even if burst is generally better

[vivid vessel]

ye

sure

sustained cleave idk tho

[strange kelp]

But assa is sustained cleave

[vivid vessel]

well it has cds

[strange kelp]

It's just via dots and spatter

[vivid vessel]

if you think about a fight like brood for examples

you had specific pops were you had a millions of little shitters

[strange kelp]

Well for brood old CT was big for it, which is gone now

[vivid vessel]

i mean maybe brood is a bad example cause thats one of the only fight where sustained cleave was good

[strange kelp]

So it's lost some value, sin has

[vivid vessel]

didnt matter tho

[vivid vessel]

yes

but i mean

outlaw lost pc

and bf went from 50 to 30%

[lime lake]

rogue sucks

[vivid vessel]

im not sure which of the 3 specs lost the most cleave

at like low target raid cleave amount

i might dare say outlaw tho

fuck subs players

[wide flare]

You playing this season @vivid vessel?

[vivid vessel]

ye

im already level 82

[muted hound]

Is it possible to track only tier2+ for rtb?

[vivid vessel]

no

[wide flare]

Ah nice, thought you might boycot the Outlaw changes. I’m really not a fan and don’t know what to play anymore..

[cinder relic]

Try another spec

Sub and Sin can be fun too if you haven't tried them Out

Or go try enhance

heard good things from outlaw players about enhance

[wide flare]

Sin apm is too low apm for me, my adhd and i get bored quickly

Sub is fine but i need to learn it again

Enh could be a shout

[gilded tinsel]

Sub is a lot less rigid now

[ancient cobalt]

enhance is awesome!

[wide flare]

That being said, i haven’t even tried outlaw so i may be bad mouthing for nothing. But the things they removed take a lot of fun out the spec imo

[cinder relic]

I mean its fun for different reasons

If you have never played the BFA/SL style of Outlaw, and only liked it because of the crackshot, infinite AR stuff, you might not like it

[wide flare]

I need to test the water

[cinder relic]

but for me its like, a return to form from older versions mixed with some more modern Outlaw features

Stuff like deft, fan the hammer, ace/apex, KiR, new RTB

[wide flare]

I played it back in BfA but really fell in love with crackshot etc..

[prisma lantern]

Honestly the rogue specs feel a lot more fun to play than I expected after the pruning.

[cinder relic]

I think theres a lot to like with the new version, but I also understand not liking the new version because it is very different

[cinder relic]

Yeah I think all 3 rogue specs turned out really good

[prisma lantern]

I thought I'd hate Sub & Outlaw, but I enjoy em.

Haven't played Sin properly yet.

[wide flare]

Nice happy I came to chat, might convince me to buy the exp

[blissful idol]

it's pretty fun and will get better most likely with more gear imo

[proper veldt]

I mean I think it’s crazy to like this iteration of outlaw

Feels beyond cooked but that’s my take

[blissful idol]

i prefer old one as well but it was 2 hard for the community i guess

[dense bridge]

i am having, dare i say it, fun levelling outlaw

[wintry solar]

It's been like this longer than crackshot outlaw

[balmy topaz]

God forbid there was a little bit of difficulty to the spec

Blizzard with the fun police come in and dumb the rotation down

[dense bridge]

yeah it was so heckin poggers having to play like a degenerate to max my buff uptime

[wintry solar]

I'm just glad there's room to add new stuff now

[dense bridge]

pogalicious one might say

[blissful idol]

anyone know why i cant see items ilevel and stuff when i hover them in journal?

[cinder relic]

I felt that way about the DF s3 rework

Felt like eating spoonfuls of sugar

No give and take, just give

[vivid vessel]

i woulkd like it if we had ace

[cinder relic]

And then when there were mistakes, or poor play, or mechanics, the wheels kinda came falling off

[vivid vessel]

without ace it just feels empty

[cinder relic]

I agree. I think a silver lining about this weird 1 point ace shit is that based on your ruthlessness luck you either build with Ps or ss out of an ace proc

[frail veldt]

Yeaaaaah

[keen belfry]

play 2 ace and ruthlessness can let u bte bte

[frail veldt]

Ace when it does proc feels awesome

The repeat CD resets are fun

Though the rng of how that impacts your damage is a little toxic

Cuz it's a HUGE swing

[balmy topaz]

New RTB is fine like

No container bs

Like that’s all good idm

I do agree getting ace back would be nice

[frail veldt]

I do miss cto

I feel like were only playing with one set of builder rules since rolling a stage 1 is so rare

we def lost a lot of variety in how the spec plays moment to moment

its a lot more static

[vivid vessel]

not enough + we cant play 2 ace

ever

[keen belfry]

sybau?

[vivid vessel]

:D

[keen belfry]

u jelly?

[frail veldt]

leveling as the ST build is funny when you can barely keep BF 100% uptime without the extended duration talent haha

[indigo token]

idk if its cause outlaws energy is bad or queting in wow is boring

but im so goddamn bored

[balmy topaz]

What level are you

[frail veldt]

mostly the latter

[indigo token]

81

[frail veldt]

energy shouldnt be bad at 81

[quaint mauve]

[indigo token]

i feel like ive been playing for 10 hours

[balmy topaz]

Your haste should be fine

[frail veldt]

I didnt start feeling energy issues until like 86/87

[quaint mauve]

wait

energy gets worse?

[frail veldt]

yeah

[quaint mauve]

[frail veldt]

cuz gear scaling

so your haste goes down

as you level

[indigo token]

oh my fucking god bruh 💔

[frail veldt]

I started with like 35% haste

to try to pad the suffering

[wintry solar]

I've been prioritizing haste over ilvl while leveling

[frail veldt]

yeah 100%

I dont swap any gear out if it drops my haste

sadly im still wearing mostly the same gear that I started in haha

[buoyant cosmos]

What level are you @ now?

[frail veldt]

87 I think

Ive swapped like 2 pieces

[buoyant cosmos]

I kept everything unless it had more haste, I hit 90 this morning and have 15% lol

[normal forge]

evasion must be back in cdr

[frail veldt]

nah we were too op

[normal forge]

we already lost aoe blind

[frail veldt]

cuz we were too op with it

duh

[lime lake]

rogue already brings too much utility, having aoe blind wouldve been a little silly

[normal forge]

yeah, ofc

[frail veldt]

yeah you have to realize that the dev team knows best

[lime lake]

besides now we can afford to take gouge

really we win out here

[frail veldt]

if you disagree with them youre probably just ill informed

[normal forge]

cant overcome pallies

increase potency of crimson vial then, maybe?

[frail veldt]

wdym why

that would make us op again

[normal forge]

too stronk

[vapid sundial]

surely

its taking all i got captain

to not doom

rn

[frail veldt]

have you tried just ignoring all the problems and having fun instead

[vapid sundial]

the problems take away from my fun

unlucky

https://giphy.com/gifs/ostrich-avestruz-l1J9znYNISr0aEmze

[frail veldt]

nah thats unrealistic

thats just your fault

the onerous is on you the player to enjoy whatever version of outlaw the devs deliver

[untold yarrow]

guys how do you track RTB/CDs/Energy without WA

💀

[buoyant cosmos]

I suggested something just like this RTB itteration so it's all on me, sorry gang

[quaint mauve]

bro

im getting a nosebleed everytime i sneeze

is this a sign to stay home and just play wow

@frail veldt thoughts?

[lime lake]

Just dont sneeze?

[clear lava]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wintry solar]

Bros nose is skill issuing him

[fickle relic]

i miss old killing spree so much, return it blizz, pleeease

it's new version is so uninteresting i hate it

i don't even care if it will kill me

[frail veldt]

yes

[shy sandal]

this true?

[frail veldt]

but also that kinda sounds bad

stop picking your nose

[untold yarrow]

is there a way to import someone's UI

[frail veldt]

lol ofc not

[untold yarrow]

this combat tracker addon is pure trolling

holy

[frail veldt]

"true tier list" is an oxymoron

[untold yarrow]

i mean default ui not addon lmao

[frail veldt]

wdym

like the one on your unit frame?

is it not accurate?

[untold yarrow]

no no idk who made it at blizzard but this shit is so awful

[frail veldt]

is there a new one?

[quaint mauve]

bro im not picking my nose

[untold yarrow]

No i just resubbed

[shy sandal]

where are we realisticly

[untold yarrow]

i havent played since november

[quaint mauve]

i blame it on LA air

[frail veldt]

in what content at what competitive level?

[untold yarrow]

Meow do u have SC of your UI

[frail veldt]

ofc not

well technically I do

[untold yarrow]

FK

[frail veldt]

by default

cuz I use default cp

but I ignore it

[untold yarrow]

and energy?

[frail veldt]

I use wang

[shy sandal]

lets say m+ up to 3k-3.3k and hc raids maybe some mythic

[untold yarrow]

so we need 1 addon for energy

1 addon for cp

[frail veldt]

then tier lists dont matter play anything you want

all specs are equal

[untold yarrow]

terrific

[frail veldt]

no?

just use wang

for both

[cinder relic]

Extremely yeah

Reroll dk asap

[coarse mesa]

dont even need an addon for them kek

[untold yarrow]

thanks @frail veldt

[frail veldt]

I mean to get energy in a useful location you kinda do

[frail veldt]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[frail veldt]

get dat wang

[gaunt phoenix]

arcui / bcdm also have resources, but wangbar is better

[fathom bramble]

blizzard is going to retune everything on the 17 anyway

even if an accurate tierlist exists it is for a state of the game that will never matter

[coarse mesa]

i just want all my rogue homies to do big dam, get sexy mogs and aura farm mages

[shy sandal]

ok but why does it say to craft a wep with lvl2 quality thing?

[unkempt cypress]

M+ will be mage dk again lol wtb rogue dev

[untold yarrow]

Is there a way to fix the awfulness that is active ability tracking?

Like blade flurry and RTB whatever they did to it being tracked in a fkn progress bar?

[quaint mauve]

outlaw - tuning same sentence

[frail veldt]

whats active ability tracking

oh yeah

just move them to an icon

in the cdm you can pick

[coarse mesa]

yeah i prefer the icon , the bar takes too much space

[frail veldt]

whether you want bar or icon

[untold yarrow]

can't the blade flurry icon light up when its active????

[gaunt phoenix]

in CDM settings you have a choice to drag your buffs as an icon or a bar

[untold yarrow]

like adr does by default?

[frail veldt]

not afaik

with WA you prob could do that yeah

[untold yarrow]

[lime lake]

Arcui can do it

[gaunt phoenix]

iirc the embellishment quality is just recipe difficulty

[viral ruin]

Can u setup sound when RTB expires or pistol shot procs? Or do i have to watch it 24/7 like a moron

[lime lake]

In a way

Kinda jank though

[frail veldt]

arcui has a pretty difficult settings to navigate

worse than plater somehow

[lime lake]

Yeah its so hostile to use

But it is effective

[quaint mauve]

anyone know if u can use custom backgrounds on details still

mine went away

[frail veldt]

you can set up when PS procs but it only works for 0->3 stacks of opp not if you proc while already having 3 stacks

[viral ruin]

Is it in default Blizzard thing or do i need addon?

[frail veldt]

yeah its default

I think its called something like alerts

[viral ruin]

Alright thanks

[frail veldt]

its in the CDM somewhere

[untold yarrow]

ngl

if i knew it was this bad i wouldn't have bought midnight

[frail veldt]

the transition to the new UI is pretty miserable yeah

but thats a one time adjustment for the most part

[leaden sonnet]

Until you get used to some workaround that something like arc does, and then it gets used by rwf and blizzard fixes it

[frail veldt]

truuuu

[gaunt phoenix]

what is O

[frail veldt]

there will certainly be op workarounds

[frail veldt]

O

[upper hawk]

who knows. these tier lists are all dumb

[untold yarrow]

idk if its cuz im not max level yet or, but stealth doesn't keep adr and adr doesn't stop BF from ticking down?

[upper hawk]

haha

[frail veldt]

lolol

whos gona tell him

[gaunt phoenix]

all stealth stuff is gone

UHUH crackshot

#outlaw-faq has a summary of sorts

[untold yarrow]

OK 🙂

thanks ill need to read it again

but wtf is going on lmao

[gaunt phoenix]

Did you play outlaw before season 3 DF

[untold yarrow]

yeah

all df

and sl

[frail veldt]

its like early DF but without shadow dance or vanish for ambush

[untold yarrow]

i mean

bfa

[gaunt phoenix]

its pretty similar to bfa

mix of bfa and season 1 df

bfa but 7 cps, new rtb, fan the hammer, kir

[shy sandal]

seems correct

[upper hawk]

i could argue with some of them. like i think they let their reputations influence things. but it doesn't matter, upcoming tuning will change it all

[untold yarrow]

i think the different gameplay

plus fuckass ui

is not helping

[viral ruin]

it feels weird to play without crackshot but bfa outlaw was the most fun for me

[vivid vessel]

im so confused

im supposed to fly down there

for like 5 min ?

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

i must be missing something right

[gaunt phoenix]

i did

[vivid vessel]

thats intended?

hm

[untold yarrow]

anyone got an addon for this shit? I used to use Elv/SUF but I don't want elv and SUF looks to be cooked

[fathom bramble]

normal post-flying world

[vivid vessel]

i hate leveling

[fathom bramble]

where blizz makes you fly 6000 yards randomly

I miss being grounded at the start

[gaunt phoenix]

the rests of the quests, archbishop will teleport you

it is weird he doesnt do it at first

[wintry solar]

No I'd say it's the most accurate list ever

[leaden sonnet]

Fuus is more accurate

[wintry solar]

Nope

[leaden sonnet]

If i was colourblind that one wouldnt be accurate

[wintry solar]

It would be

It'd just look different

[untold yarrow]

!addons

[jolly geyser]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[strange kelp]

I don't miss having to unlock flying via Pathfinder tho

[haughty wigeon]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/gravedigger-outlaw-apex-talent-feels-bad/2264348

why is people saying not to take the apex talents

[haughty wigeon]

theres litterally nothing in our tree thats worth more

[vivid vessel]

obviously he is talking abouit outdoor content

so

[untold yarrow]

does anyone know how to hide this in MSUF ? I can't find a setting for this

[fresh acorn]

I honestly agree with this

Makes the world more interesting

[daring yoke]

are they releasing the 17th tuning in PTR or beta first?

[gleaming reef]

Guys how many sparks do you have so far?

I only got 1.

[twin steeple]

2. Midnight World Tour (middle of sanctum) + new weekly quest

[cinder relic]

I was saying it on pre release, I wish we did grounded until we finished the campaign

then it was just unlocked

[gleaming reef]

oh ok

[cinder relic]

The issue is a lot of these like, "Old designs" really annoyed people even if they had good intentions

[gleaming reef]

I haven't finish world tour I guess

[cinder relic]

So if they were to "Go back on it" people would lose their fucking minds

same with AP grinds, shit like legendaries, etc

Theres too much baggage with a lot of cool, old features/systems

Silver lining is that flying with skyriding is fun as fuck

[random stirrup]

The skyriding changes are actually so good

it's crazy

[fathom bramble]

definitely more fun than basic auto walk

[random stirrup]

Constantly landing and taking off again was miserable while questing or whatever but now it's just straight perfect

[fathom bramble]

but everytime I get a quest that sends you incredibly far it just feels like blizzard is making you take longer to get anywhere specifically to offset us having flight

[cinder relic]

Like if they are going to just give us flying insta, I like that its flying and not just air swimming

[fathom bramble]

so you are afk flying over and over instead of moving naturally through the zone

[cinder relic]

I think other than specifically arators story line it was kinda normal

FOr travel

[fathom bramble]

there was a few flying like 40% the length of the zone quests

also every dungeon is in the furthest spots possible from the zone entrance lol

[cinder relic]

lol

Even back in the day I did like being grounded for a bit

It makes the zones feel way different going from Ground > FLying

But I was called a shill for saying that back in BFA

[fathom bramble]

I think ground content is just more fun

the fact that the correct play at almost all times is to just mount up and fly to the next thing is very bland

even short distances

[cinder relic]

idt either is more or less fun

I just miss the fact that we dont do it anymore

[indigo token]

is there any good way to display combo points

[unkempt dew]

This!

[untold yarrow]

why is it when i close edit mode the CDM resets to default spot when using advanced cdm?

[indigo token]

oh, does anyone have the google doc of things to do week 1

[untold yarrow]

or improved cdm

[rustic scaffold]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[gleaming reef]

worth sending veteren crests?

[eternal hound]

Why wouldnt you

Vet gear gonna get replaced by initial m+ farm

[gleaming reef]

no idea, that's why i'm asking

[eternal hound]

If u do m+ yeah it is worth just sending it

Solely raiding is a bit different but I assume most people dont do that

[gleaming reef]

but also no rush right?

another 2 weeks of doing nothing anyway

[eternal hound]

Yep!

[haughty jungle]

Right, see what drops and upgrade from there

[gaunt phoenix]

Wangbar

[keen belfry]

Wangbar

[ancient cobalt]

im spending NO CRESTS

[frail veldt]

you have another addon trying to control its position

ive had issues like that with dominos + arcui

where they both try to control the position of stuff

so if you try to just use edit mode to move it, itll reset as soon as you exit edit mode

[untold yarrow]

i dont have anything else

I fiXed it by manually setting offsets instead of using the edit mode drag and drop

[frail veldt]

you might need to use advanced cdm to move the stuff then

yeah

essentially a lot of addons overwrite edit mode

so edit mode loses functionality

[untold yarrow]

yeah makes sense

i mean this shit is awful

ngl

huge step back from WA and i am not changing my mind anytime soon

[frail veldt]

its undeniably worse from a user perspective

in theory I think they want it to make addons less powerful at the peak end

but they kinda of landed with a lot of negative side effects along the way

[keen belfry]

no cap mewo

[untold yarrow]

in BCDM can you set it up to glow when an aura is active like BF?

[frail veldt]

🧢

[keen belfry]

wangbar + default cdm + centered cdm addon is all u nmeed

[untold yarrow]

Like we had it in WAs

[frail veldt]

no plater?

no unit frames?

no advanced interface options?

[untold yarrow]

default plates 💀

[keen belfry]

well, im just talking combat ui stuff cdm

[frail veldt]

no cursor animation?

no gear ilvl overlay?

[keen belfry]

plater + better blizz frames + fart

and

never forget chonky character sheet

[frail veldt]

I hate that one haha

I like just the ilvl on the icons

thats all I need

im misisng it right now and my bag is just an enigma of gear

[vivid vessel]

just get the old weak aura

[frail veldt]

Oh there was a wa?

[vivid vessel]

or well for the bag idk

but for the character sheet i still use that weak aura

[frail veldt]

yeah I used the one for the character sheet

[vivid vessel]

ye

[keen belfry]

zac

[frail veldt]

yuge

[vivid vessel]

wang

you are washed up bro

i need to start playing league again

[frail veldt]

I need to start playing tft again

I was on a roll

[keen belfry]

i havent lost a rengar game since wow came out

that one rengar game was a 7min ff

doesnt count

[frail veldt]

rofl

you can ff that early?

[keen belfry]

if someone leaves

[frail veldt]

ah

[untold yarrow]

anyone have a good character profile addon?

[keen belfry]

chonky

[untold yarrow]

ty

[keen belfry]

im going to try to use as little big altering adddons for awhile

no dbm

no cdm addon

[untold yarrow]

☠️ BRUH 1 / 17 💀

[wicked forge]

Enjoy 50€ spent

[untold yarrow]

I've insta-skipped every cutscene so far

no clue wtf is going on but im all for it

[frail veldt]

theres honestly no big reason to rush to max rn

its weeks before the season even starts

stop and smell the roses

[wintry solar]

What do you know about smelling the roses in wow

[rich moon]

did they "fix" our aoe blind? 🙁

[glass mortar]

🙂

[frail veldt]

yeah we cant really complain they dont fix our bugs

clearly they care

[wintry solar]

New people kept bringing it up

I blame them

When a gift is bestowed upon you, you dont ask questions.

[keen belfry]

i wonder why they took our aoe stop

was our +10 completion rate too high?

[cinder haven]

They just hate us

[wintry solar]

We know they're biased so it makes sense they'd have a bias in the opposite direction as well

[rich moon]

aoe stop that didn't work on mechs lol

[glass mortar]

simply put, rogues toolkit for dungeons was too strong

[cinder haven]

Was also wonky with the affix you were supposed to aoe stop

[keen belfry]

maybe they didnt like how it functioned vs mechs so they made it not function

[sturdy phoenix]

Hi guys, i'm reading the faq and got a question, since stealth is no longer needed for our rotation, ambush is a useless skill right, we never want to use it or we do ?

[cinder haven]

Now we can do even less against that I guess, if thats still a thing

[keen belfry]

yes ambust not needed

[nova sinew]

how high do palmed bullets stack

10?

[gaunt phoenix]

10

[nova sinew]

thanks

[lime lake]

np

[wintry solar]

You're welcome dude

[tribal cosmos]

Ey

Butt

[lucid isle]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[hollow creek]

im confused is m+ coming 17th or 24th

[vivid vessel]

17 is hc week

wait idk actually

[tribal cosmos]

17th

18th for euro

Poors

[fathom holly]

are we that bad in st guys?

and 2 target

i am getting owned

[buoyant cosmos]

who knows, they are pushing more class tuning on the 17th

[quaint mauve]

wangbar

[buoyant cosmos]

nugcombopoints

[brave mantle]

!talents

[untold wadi]

!pins

!faq

[copper radish]

So we back to dooming or

[untold wadi]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/856897810536071208

[glass mortar]

dooming about what

our meh tuning

our butchered toolkit further butchered by blind

what is in the doomopile today

[nova sinew]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[glass mortar]

it is better that they dont leave the blind thing in limbo honestly

we know for a fact that it is actual blizzard developer opinion that rogue should have zero aoe stops or dungeon utility

😎

[rocky kiln]

!fii

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cinder relic]

You literally have no concept of the tuning rn

[glass mortar]

i have the concept of ive played the game for a solid weekend of dungeon spam with guildies of various classes and how we work out for the non geared tuning rn, and it was definitly pretty meh playing against other mythic raiding level players

[keen belfry]

WERAN U DONT HAVE HVAE A CLUE! NOTHING IS WITHIN YOUR GRASP!

[glass mortar]

but maybe we glowup into raid because of scaling i guess

im not holding my breath

[keen belfry]

HOLD IT NOW

[glass mortar]

not like id be the one to doom about tuning anyway zacs the one who plays on the level where that matters, i mained outlaw in s3 of tww so...

i'll put up with some pretty awful tuning

the blind thing is tho i'll gladly doom over that

[keen belfry]

im gonna be such high io this season

u wont even get it!

[frail veldt]

I mean you could argue it matters more for people not zac

cuz hes always gona get a group

and team

its worst for people pugging at high ish ratings

like title range puggers

thats where tuning really really fucks you

[tight kernel]

Yeah I agree

Play aug

Get into any group

GG

[glass mortar]

not always

u could make outlaw so bad hes functionally filtered from the content he plays in

but itd be impressive itd need to be even worse then last season tuning wise

[tight kernel]

Last season was so fun wym

I enjoyed getting my little pink mount and stuff

Felt like a real gamer

[frail veldt]

bro his tank was close to beating him

I mean outlaw was the worst its ever been

last season

by a huge margin

at least since ive played it in SL

but yeah they could always make it worse ofc

my point is that people who have connections are often more insulated from tuning than just high rated puggers

[tight kernel]

This true

I couldn’t get into pug groups towards the end of the season regardless of my io was comical

It feels diff when you get declined from 18-19s

[ancient cobalt]

i got a friend whos 30 that can relate to this his name is kyle

[tight kernel]

Crazy com

[lavish jackal]

is it a known bug that sometimes grappling hook does not work but consumes the charge?

[glass mortar]

Yes its been like that in the open world for several expansions

At this point it's part of the design

[lavish jackal]

[cinder relic]

Dude

Im just doing my M0s rn

This spec pipes

[tired rune]

I cant even get into an m0

[vivid vessel]

guys they wont take me in m0

cause outlaw isnt meta

its so over

this guy person must have a lot of connections

im not as lucky im just a casual dad friday gmaing enjoyer

[formal pawn]

gonna blind myself from this hotfix

[tired rune]

[mystic berry]

its so over

[formal thunder]

are m0 weekly or daily lockout?

[rich moon]

weekly

[rocky kiln]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[thin fiber]

not sure if it's a bug... your path might not be visually blocked but in reality, it is. encountered it quite often especially on bumpy terrain or elevated grounds

[fathom bramble]

the specific bug is that hook runs a 2nd line of sight check at the time that the hook pulls the player, this check erroneously is blocked by things that don't normally block los like terrain or certain world objects.

[vivid vessel]

i mean it consumes your grapple instead of just saying path not available

so deffinitly a bug

[fathom bramble]

this 2nd los check for some reason isn't ran in dungeons or raids though

so hook only snaps in this way in the open world

[vivid vessel]

cant wait for a random dev one day to wake up and realize they forgot to bring that feature into instances

[fathom bramble]

it's been around for several years and could very well be an intentional 'feature' to prevent hook from letting you go places you shouldn't

even though they changed hooks targetting rules so it already generally can't break anything

btw if you are taller or jump as the hook pulls you it is less likely to snap since it gives you a more favorable line of sight

[tribal cosmos]

Survival is now the better outlaw

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gun-firing-rifle-gif-11056025

https://tenor.com/view/gun-db-shotgun-gif-21597283

Grappling hook check

Shotgun

Check

https://tenor.com/view/hell-doom-doomguy-doom-slayer-gif-1856426728697571896

[glass mortar]

they actually hit surv mobility a bit tbh

sad how much it lost

[wintry solar]

Me when a hunter has a gun

[tribal cosmos]

They gpt a gun tho

Shouldve just made the playstyle graves esc

Boomboom

Reload boom boom

Gg

[frail veldt]

I think its working as intended and you gotta shift your mindset to enjoy the way its designed

also race change of dwarf noob

[cinder relic]

Guys

[vivid vessel]

69 isnt the fun number anymore guy

its 67 now

[cinder relic]

[wintry solar]

We left that in 2025

[vivid vessel]

https://giphy.com/gifs/67-six-seven-john-chungus-08uBcURaMq6vA93TGc

[leaden sonnet]

68 just the awkward middle child

[prisma heron]

!!ui

[wintry solar]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-gif-9409690

[slate plaza]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[slate plaza]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[untold wadi]

!wangbar

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[slate plaza]

who here running arcui

[prisma heron]

just dl it not sure what im doing with it tho lol

[frail veldt]

so whats the solution to when you change talent builds and your bars do this

[random stirrup]

roll back game versions to tww

[vivid vessel]

use weakauras noob

[frail veldt]

uuuugh

okay give me your whole import string lol

[vivid vessel]

not really done yet

[vapid sundial]

Do they even work
My app says incomplete

Incompatibility

Oops

[frail veldt]

does the fork like properly give you access to creating "template" auras from the CDM?

[vivid vessel]

no

i use arcui for buffs

only for buffs tho

[frail veldt]

ah interesting

[vivid vessel]

everything else

[frail veldt]

nvm I figured it out

a setting was wrong on that one bar

this wasnt working until a reload

[vivid vessel]

very ugly

[thorny zinc]

did u like the blackpink album zac

[vivid vessel]

nah

not really

[thorny zinc]

yea its kinda mid

3 of the songs is just them saying blackpink

[vivid vessel]

i mean i like jump a lot

but other than that

i dont even remember the songs

[thorny zinc]

fxxxboy is good

[vivid vessel]

and i tried to listen to the album multiple times

i guess i will listen again

might grow onto me

[thorny zinc]

its good background music nothing special tho

[unborn basin]

whats with all the damn tumble weeds? 🤨

[vapid sundial]

:3

[slate plaza]

fuck ts

why si setting up ui so hard

bring back fucking weakauras

foreverguys pack was my goat

[vivid vessel]

https://wago.io/53m862HoB its only for outlaw for now, and half finished, some things are just set to show never etc

but if you wanna take a look

its 1:1 what i had in tww except for buffs ye

[frail veldt]

yassss

[slate plaza]

is that cdm only?

[frail veldt]

yeah I just need like a good baseline to work off of

[slate plaza]

no bcm/arcui?

[frail veldt]

none of the above

[vivid vessel]

https://github.com/m33shoq/M33kAuras/releases its weak aura but if you cant figure it out yourself i wont help you

guy updated some stuffs

a guy

not guy

[ionic citrus]

yes! also the BtE bug (NOT!)

[elder sonnet]

which renown gives us the best rewards?

[wintry solar]

They're cosmetic

[green dune]

we going to be able to get r5 crafts yet?

[elder sonnet]

like you can get that trinket from singularity renown 6 (which isnt that good tbh) but is there anything else notable

[pure folio]

Zac did you find out when M+ season starts. I saw it was 24th on some reddit post, not sure how credible it is

[vivid vessel]

no clue

[tulip walrus]

zac why you haven't slept yet

[echo tapir]

riperoni

[vivid vessel]

im like that bro

[bright crane]

what ilvl did u guys manage to hit

[smoky lotus]

didnt hunters get their stun to be an aoe cc, thanks blizz

[frail veldt]

they deserve it

[snow stratus]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cinder relic]

No

This and singularity at 7 not 8 gives u gear

Helmet, belt, trinket and another slot Im forgetting

Neck

[bright crane]

neck

[cinder relic]

Helmet belt trinket neck

[wintry solar]

This makes me unreasonably angry for some reason

Weird

[cinder relic]

LOLOL

[untold wadi]

hunters don't deserve anything

except my undying hatred

[quaint mauve]

so do we not have aoe blind?

[cinder relic]

Correct

Fixed last night

[quaint mauve]

[craggy barn]

bruh my rog got meh gear from m0s

[glass mortar]

hell yea brother u ready to pump for m0 turbo boost in 2 weeks or w/e

[craggy barn]

no

only 16% haste

its over man

i have the mandate tho i gues

[glass mortar]

guys uh... this prey system is kinda a neat idea

i didnt expect it to have such an elaborate backstory though

so... we are murdering bad guys to turn them into batteries to power better ways to murder more bad guys

i get a little worried when i see a blood elf enjoying draining blood energy from corpses this much just saying

[cinder relic]

the casual content this expac is amazing

THe delves are so fun

The preys are good

The Abundance is good

surie is alright

[quaint mauve]

the dungeons are fun too imo

it has pretty good potential

[glass mortar]

yea the abundance was pretty gud

about that gud

4% more haste

@vivid vessel u using filo yet or r u a fake capy enjoyer

[celest cave]

Why r rogues so low on tier lists this xpac

Im not gonna be able to raid with my rogue

[cinder relic]

hard to make a tier list when the content isnt out yet

[elder sonnet]

what's the prediction tho? you guys think we'll be up there?

[celest cave]

I just see it in the meters for mythic 0 arcane mage same ilvl as me 40k dos difference

[cinder relic]

Arcane and demo are extremely overtuned

[celest cave]

Dev evoker beats me by like 20k

[celest cave]

If the science stays steady we'll be b tier at best

[quaint mauve]

why not

[celest cave]

Can't pull the numbers

[cinder relic]

Rogue has atro

Itll be in raid

[quaint mauve]

^

and if your guild doesn’t let you play what you want

find a new guild

[cinder relic]

Theres also probably more to game balance than your individal experience in M0s on week one

[quaint mauve]

also balancing happens on the 17th

[celest cave]

They'll let me play it but my dps contribution well get me cut

[quaint mauve]

with the actual beginning of the season

[cinder relic]

Rogue has atro

[celest cave]

Im hoping they tune rogue up

[cinder relic]

It'll get played in raid no matter what

[quaint mauve]

also yeah bro 3% DR is gonna be played

[celest cave]

Does atro dr for are damage or just direct target damage

[craggy barn]

damage from poisoned target

some fights some damage events are attributed to environment, which isnt affected by atro

[celest cave]

That makes sense

How long yall been playing rogue

[cinder relic]

Since legion

Like 10 years or smthing

[celest cave]

Is that maining or just dipping the toes every xpac atleast once

[wintry solar]

04

[celest cave]

This person only sees yellow lol

[wintry solar]

Combat since day 1

Well, until it became Outlaw day 1

[warm pelican]

yes random huntsd

[celest cave]

Do you like trickster or fate bound more

[wintry solar]

Fatebound

[cinder relic]

Maining it

[wintry solar]

I loathe the KS animation

[tidal frost]

did midnight slow outlaw down at all? or is it still super high apm?

[wintry solar]

It slowed down

[cinder relic]

Slowed down yes, high apm yes

[celest cave]

Fatebound it is lol

[frail veldt]

its apm in midnight is similar to what frost dk or enhance was in tww

[fossil lintel]

i just saw the blind fix

we ded?

[frail veldt]

well luckily we had a lot of utility before the fix

so theres probably no issues

if we were already low on utility

[wintry solar]

Forge your own future my child

[frail veldt]

and they removed our only aoe cc

that would be pretty bad

[low glade]

are we the only spec in the game without an aoe cc now?

[frail veldt]

yes

[low glade]

lmfao

[fossil lintel]

at least we still have sap

can remove an entire mob from the pull if they wait

[frail veldt]

true

and we have a very strong raid buff

[low glade]

aoe sap would be crazy

uncapped sap

[quaint mauve]

2 seasons

LOL

it was my first ever character tho when i used to play on wrath private servers

so if we count that like +2 years aswell

[keen belfry]

we have kidney tab target blind tab target vanish cheapshot

[lime lake]

i mean i get why they removed aoe blind

now that vanish is freed up to use whenever we want for cheap shot

seems like we mightve had a bit too much cc at that point no

[keen belfry]

yeah that 2 min stun cd was too much

[zenith sparrow]

is there like

[quaint mauve]

i don’t wtf

[zenith sparrow]

an addon that screams at you when adr rush is off cd

[lime lake]

https://klipy.com/gifs/you-wo-joker

[cinder relic]

I think having a 30? second aoe blind was too good

However, having 0 aoe blind stinks

Imho

[quaint mauve]

you can do that with the in game cd manager no?

[random stirrup]

we can take gouge now blud

airborne irritant stonks down

[quaint mauve]

they shoulda just made the cd longer

[zenith sparrow]

can you? I lowk just took a profile and put it in

[keen belfry]

iamgine proccing a tea pressing gouge

[zenith sparrow]

you can make it play a custom sound or something?

[quaint mauve]

pretty sure you can make it do a sound effect when something is off cd

[random stirrup]

big combo point value

think about it

[quaint mauve]

idk abt custom sound

[cinder relic]

Yes I agree

Outlaw actually felt really good today in my M0s

both numbers and vibes

[wintry solar]

https://tenor.com/view/bendy-and-the-ink-machine-bendy-2017-prototype-out-of-the-ink-machine-ollie-bendy-gif-17763589306956153170

[jolly geyser]

Ye,wasnt that bad actually. Would do better if I knew the fights, went in blind in most dungeons on mythic

[cinder relic]

sdame basically

Energy felt like, fine

Getting 10 stacks of BTE in jackpot

[gaunt phoenix]

Impossible.

[cinder relic]

[gaunt phoenix]

Outlaw garbage.

[cinder relic]

Its actually insane in AOE how fast KiR CD goes

Like when u roll a triple threat or jackpot

[gaunt phoenix]

[cinder relic]

By the time ur buff is over, KIR has 1 minute left on its CD

Cuz deft just does so much for ur CDR

[wintry solar]

I did a follower dungeon for a quest and the AI tank kept resetting the boss and I think that set the tone for me for that dungeon

I wish I remember the name of the dungeon

[quaint mauve]

what’s ur haste

i felt fine for the most part in my m0s

but i did starve sometimes

[cinder relic]

uhhh idk

a bunch

• haste flask

[wintry solar]

Imagine using a haste flask like a nerd

[lime lake]

a haste flask in this economy

[cinder relic]

16%

[lime lake]

[cinder relic]

Rank 1

Not rank 2 lol

Its like 500 gold

Its like rank 3s last expac lol

[wintry solar]

That's adequate

Go vers like a man

[cinder relic]

Absolutely not

[lime lake]

-500 gg

[cinder relic]

we are aiming for 25 bro

[wintry solar]

And we get there with gear or we don't get there at all

Mhm mhm

[quaint mauve]

we r haste flasking m0s

i wish i was bill gates too bro

[cinder relic]

BRO THE FLASKS COST 300 GOLD

THATS HOW MUCH TWW FLASKS WERE

U cant be that broke

[wintry solar]

Typical out of touch millionaire

[frail veldt]

300g per m0?

miss me with that

[keen belfry]

@gaunt phoenix PRETTY sure BTE bug is fixed

or supercharger bug

[smoky lotus]

https://giphy.com/gifs/lucille-bluth-banana-oblivious-yJu2jIQZgPubm

[fossil lintel]

I'm selling a ton of rank 2 haste flasks at 5k each

No idea who the hell is buying it for a whole 10 more haste

[frail veldt]

guy is

[keen belfry]

2 suppercharger no bte stack, then 1 supercharger stack and 2 BTE stacks

fast supercharger bug fix nbd

[fossil lintel]

Guy I can be your supplier hit me up, I have 5 toons ready to conc craft haste flasks

[gaunt phoenix]

it is

[keen belfry]

minmax rule is back

nbd

[cinder relic]

Flasks last an hour..????/

[frail veldt]

oh well in that case!

load me up

@fossil lintel ill buy 100

[keen belfry]

ug uys need to level alchemy and get double flask duration

takes 2.3minutes

[frail veldt]

I guess it makes sense

[fossil lintel]

Coming right up, that will be 500k gold

[frail veldt]

since were outlaws

we should have to steal/earn money

to pay for our energy to not run out

talk about great class fantasy

[fossil lintel]

Mewo I got your flasks, do you have the 500k?

[frail veldt]

ye igu

were taking haste tax to a whole new level

[fossil lintel]

I actually sold about 150k of haste flasks today

[frail veldt]

lol dayum

maybve people think its gona go up?

so theyre stock piling now?

[fossil lintel]

I thought they would sit until the raid came out

Bro they are 5k no way people are paying that to raid

[frail veldt]

I mean whats the other explanation!

[fossil lintel]

Guy has a haste flask addiction and is single hand keeping the market up?

Or I guess some folks take m0 really seriously

[gaunt phoenix]

Supercharger is bugfixed

It will no longer accidentally consume itself twice, so the minmax of holding BtE for an upcoming AR is once again a thing, described in the last pin/faq #1276307559061524652 message

Airborne Irritant is hotfixed

Rogue no longer has an AoE stop at all.

That's all

[normal kernel]

Yeah was doing m0 yesterday. First dungeon and airborne irritant was gone 😭

[gaunt phoenix]

[stiff hawk]

Outlaw is playing so differently that what im used to

Like Where my chain Btes

Where my perma ADR

[fossil lintel]

Where my aoe blind

[nova sinew]

It’s right next to your lfg invite

[lime lake]

where my god damn electic car bruce

[craggy barn]

bro they got rid of my deadlock rank wtf

first outlaw changes now this

its over

!

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf..

[fathom bramble]

do you know anything about the bug that is causing palmed bullets to sometimes lose exactly 6 stacks without casting BTE? @gaunt phoenix

[keen belfry]

did u go long time not casting bte?

[fathom bramble]

yes

[keen belfry]

like, did u get up to 10

[fathom bramble]

my theory is that it happeens exactly 30 seconds after reaching 6

[keen belfry]

iirc someone said that after u get to 6

the timer on that 6 has its own timer

[gaunt phoenix]

that is exactly what happens, after reaching 6 stacks, the rest of the stacks become async

it is a very weird way to implement it

[fathom bramble]

weird

I assume we can't track that properly

without WAs

[gaunt phoenix]

yea

[viral monolith]

Got a question, as I’m returning to rogue after a long time, when I get an ace proc but only have like 3 cp, am I spamming it as soon as it procs or using a 3stack PS or BF or sinn to try and get above 6 cp? If that makes sense lol
Thanks

[keen belfry]

lok show ui

[gaunt phoenix]

You have to build cps after ace proc

the proc has no timer, it's just bte resetting itself