#outlaw

1 messages · Page 641 of 1

vivid vessel
#

cool

vapid sundial
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Me hitting the giant clam with a stick as the mage next to me uses a nuclear powered whiffle bat

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Friend wants me to play

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Is. Shaman still playing totemic

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Hm

wintry solar
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Who cares about tuning when you're having fun

vivid vessel
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well youi cant have fun when yhou cant play

slender creek
#

look
between the eyes crits make me feel good

cinder relic
#

True I cant play my rogue rn

cinder relic
frail veldt
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then outlaws unplayable

vivid vessel
vapid sundial
vivid vessel
#

when m+ comes out and you are even worse than in tww so you cant enter any keys

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iudk how fun that will be

vapid sundial
#

You should actually stop that nonsense

vivid vessel
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but its fine if you only do weeklies with your guildies tho

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true

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i guess

frail veldt
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worth it

vapid sundial
wintry solar
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Totally

gaunt phoenix
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if you're wondering, the supercharger thing did not get hotfixed

vapid sundial
#

This is the curse you get for losing uhuh

vivid vessel
wintry solar
#

Worth

vapid sundial
#

All popos fault

vivid vessel
#

thats a negative bug

gaunt phoenix
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lol

vivid vessel
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cp delay will also not get fixed

frail veldt
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intended obv

wintry solar
vapid sundial
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What is there left to sacrifice

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?

wintry solar
#

Id find something

vapid sundial
#

What are they gonna do, take kick away

wintry solar
slender creek
cinder relic
#

wdym

vivid vessel
#

whatdehelly !

frail veldt
#

for now

vivid vessel
#

outlaw is viable for leveling !

frail veldt
#

show us your first craft guy

wintry solar
frail veldt
#

then we'll talk

vivid vessel
#

goated expac

wintry solar
#

Oops

wintry solar
vapid sundial
slender creek
wintry solar
#

It's a fella

cinder relic
vivid vessel
#

:D

frail veldt
cinder relic
#

Shit if we had vanish on rb itd be raid viable still

wintry solar
frail veldt
#

are you saying its like too squishy to be raid viable atm?

vapid sundial
cinder relic
vivid vessel
#

i mean utility is irrelevant in raid

cinder relic
#

If the spec is strong in raid, its just tuning, Like how its always been

slender creek
#

creature

daring yoke
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is reshi wraps still working as of reset today?

vapid sundial
#

I love this creature

cinder relic
#

rn still yeah

frail veldt
mossy compass
#

Is the voidstorm rep trinket simming really bad for anyone else? Is it bad?

cinder relic
#

Profile hasn't changed much in that context

frail veldt
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yeah unfortunately

gaunt phoenix
frail veldt
#

we need some pretty heavy tuning to be the rogue spec of choice

gaunt phoenix
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overworld trinkets usually aren't on launch

knotty abyss
#

did they nerf blind?

vapid sundial
fathom bramble
#

I mean yeah it's nothing new

frail veldt
#

removed the aoe

vivid vessel
#

whats new is getting worse every expac

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we used to have a good damage profile for keys btw

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now everyone does funnel

fathom bramble
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and we had some agency from vanish

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which is also gone

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it's whatever we will get tuned high or stay just as good as law usually is

vivid vessel
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we also had acro

vapid sundial
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Maybe I should just play bm again

vivid vessel
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like

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one of the worse spec in the game

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every season

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hmge

cinder relic
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It wasn ttho

vivid vessel
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in keys it was litteraly all of tww except from what accident that was totally not intentional and basically forced

cinder relic
#

Really big asterisk you put there

vivid vessel
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idc about raid i accepted that the spec will not be playhed in raid anymore

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not really

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cause that tier

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outlaw was tuned

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basically ythe worse its ever been

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after maybe tww s3

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and it still wasnt getting buffed

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and oh well

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a wowhead article

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that just says that the spec does not function

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only time in tww the spec did something in keys :D

cinder relic
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Its the worst every season, except the seasons where its been good

vivid vessel
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sure bro

frail veldt
vivid vessel
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you know im right tho

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but go on

frail veldt
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so unless they make a mistake its bad lol

cinder relic
#

What about the seasons it was good in DF
were those also accidents?

vivid vessel
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df wasnt tww

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and since then both sub and sin

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have gained

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so much

leaden sonnet
vivid vessel
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sin became a real spec that can do aoe

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and funnel

cinder relic
#

Itll never be good ever again

vivid vessel
#

sub can now cleave

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while outlaw lost acro

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and tankyness now

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and vanish

leaden sonnet
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Sub cant cleave that much

frail veldt
#

I mean nothigns stopping them from giga tuning it

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but I think compared to other specs, outlaw needs very heavy overtuning to be good at the high end due to its design

vivid vessel
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when it couldnt do both aoe and prio

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thats not a thing anymore

leaden sonnet
#

It is

frail veldt
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just the unfortunate reality of having a less useful damage profile, low utility, and capped aoe

vivid vessel
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bro sub does more prio than outlaw pressing bp idk what you mean

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its fine tho

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tuning will save us

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i mean rogue in general is doomed in keys anyway

leaden sonnet
#

Does outlaw lose like 40% prio damage compared to ST

frail veldt
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its also a little unfortunate that we do so well in "lower" content cuz I think it discourages blizzard from tuning us higher

vapid sundial
vivid vessel
vapid sundial
#

Nightmare nightmare nightmare

leaden sonnet
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Ok so why would it be lower than sub

vivid vessel
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idk its been lower all of tww

leaden sonnet
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Ye when sub could do full ST even in aoe

vivid vessel
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ok a little fairness in this world

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makes me happy

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well im sad for you

leaden sonnet
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Idk all hkp men are probably gonna play assa anyway since its the spec with prio

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Sub just "padd" spec according to beta men

vivid vessel
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wtf is a hkp men

leaden sonnet
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Pushers

vivid vessel
#

ah

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well

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since rogue wont get into keys anyway

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first rogue will be outlaw

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and second rogue will be outlaw

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easy expac for the law again

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the better spec

knotty abyss
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better change to assa then

cinder relic
#

Reroll asap

wintry solar
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just did

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got a three of a kind

gleaming reef
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Man survivor hunter slaps

soft bobcat
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I feel so energy starved

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While warlock has full mana blasting 🙁

quaint mauve
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@proven ocean

IMG_4609.jpg IMG_4607.jpg
cinder relic
pastel pendant
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How is outlaw feeling rn

lime plank
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There any good trinkets from m0 for us?

quaint mauve
#

jk

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idk i think its fun

limpid plank
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why not open with ambush if youre in stealth?

untold wadi
cinder relic
limpid plank
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oh, seriously

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i guess ill just unbind it

wintry solar
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I like to open with cheap to really feel like a rogue

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@cinder relic thoughts?

cinder relic
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CHeap and Kidney are really nice for open world

wintry solar
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yeah ive been doing it in normal dungeons and open world

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obv not when I push for real

limpid plank
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isnt the uptime on adrenaline rush bad since it doesnt interact with stealth anymore?

wintry solar
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around 30%

limpid plank
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so a lot worse

wintry solar
#

a lot lower

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I wouldve aimed for 40-60% personally

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30 is fine though

cinder relic
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I really like that BTE and dispatch have different finished rules

wintry solar
#

yeah

cinder relic
#

Makes em feel diff

wintry solar
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fo sho

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a little something something to be aware of

limpid plank
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will your AR reset after the bubble breaks?

image.png
cinder relic
#

I'm really liking how the spec feels overall rn

vivid vessel
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it reset when the key start

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thats why you press it before the key is put in

wintry solar
#

yall know Lando Norris?

cinder relic
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I know lando T

wintry solar
#

asweqqqqqqqqqqqq

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DARN CAT

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caps from cat too

cinder relic
wintry solar
#

Lando Norris is an F1 driver and he has his own monster flavor

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kiwi methinks

keen belfry
#

19% haste

hasty warren
keen belfry
#

nbd

hasty warren
#

iicr

vivid vessel
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2min

hasty warren
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oh it's 2 ?

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mb

vivid vessel
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ye

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altough some things are manually added

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like i think dance ?

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iirc

hasty warren
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hope rtb can reset too

vivid vessel
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it doesnt

hasty warren
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y

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was so shit waiting 45 sec for it in raid

keen belfry
vivid vessel
hasty warren
#

you not playing for midnight zac ?

craggy barn
hasty warren
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ah no it's no enchant

craggy barn
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lol

hasty warren
#

go enchant then u noob

craggy barn
#

no

hasty warren
#

ok

slender creek
#

waiting to craft your spark items gotta be the right move
right?

hasty warren
#

wait for your first mythic vault

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if u get a mm weapon it's better to craft an off hand

radiant root
keen belfry
#

19% haste

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game is almsot playable

buoyant rampart
#

!faq

eternal hound
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Okay

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When the RNG hits just right

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This spec feels ungodly good

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And then I roll 4 ones in a row till next AR

buoyant rampart
#

How is outlaw doing vs sub for M+?

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any knowers

gaunt phoenix
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M+ doesn't exist

buoyant rampart
#

Whats the crystal ball saying

eternal hound
#

🔮 till then

buoyant rampart
#

Im scared to craft wep and be homeless man 🥶

eternal hound
#

Na don't craft wep ever

gaunt phoenix
#

rogue wont get invited anyway

eternal hound
#

bad bad bad idea

hasty warren
#

@gaunt phoenix good work for the faq as always

gaunt phoenix
#

thank you

eternal hound
buoyant rampart
#

whats the crystal ball saying we should reroll to

eternal hound
#

UDK

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Obviously

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or...Dev DH, demo, probally destro

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Or mage

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If you don't know what to reroll to just play mage

hasty warren
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sv is on a better spot than outlaw no ?

eternal hound
#

Sure but survival isn't meta

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now is it?

untold wadi
eternal hound
#

So

hasty warren
eternal hound
#

Not all bad keks

eternal hound
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If I cared about meta I'd play UDK

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But I fucking hate that spec

hasty warren
#

i'm playing hpriest this season, fck rdrood

eternal hound
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Ahhh healer angle

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Not a bad one

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Also yeah I agree. Rdrood is my only experience healing

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it put me to sleep

hasty warren
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not a big fan of the gameplay

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shapeshifting is weird

eternal hound
#

I mean I've never liked druid gameplay wise that much

frail veldt
eternal hound
#

Bro I haven't touched my rogue since lemix 😭

summer nimbus
#

So do we just kind of run out energy now in st? I dont have the grave digger capstone yet tho so idk if it gets much better

wintry solar
#

do you have enough haste and are pressing BR on CD?

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I dont have capstone and im gcd capped

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im also at 22% haste

summer nimbus
#

I only have 20% but im not max yet just hitting dummies and running out of energy

hasty warren
#

maybe it's a rotation issue

wintry solar
#

thats what im thinking

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youre pressing br on CD?

hasty warren
#

br on cd + tea help a lot

summer nimbus
#

Ye

eternal hound
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Honestly even in ST am just not feeling it

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There's a few times when I do but it's usually cuz I forget BR

wintry solar
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so far ive only been out because I died with adr and tea on cd

quaint mauve
#

my ui keeps breaking

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idk

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its making me

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very angry

eternal hound
hasty warren
wintry solar
#

but yeah corndog, I'd refresh myself if I were you with the FAQ

eternal hound
#

Like how details became randomly unusable due to returning 48 lua errors well standing in town

quaint mauve
#

idk whats the fix

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its my bcdm i think

wintry solar
#

you shouldnt be running out in ST at 20% haste with tea and BR on cd

fathom bramble
#

RTB sometimes just randomly disapears from my tracker

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despite still being active

wintry solar
#

I knew I wasnt crazy

hasty warren
#

I had default UI lua errors spam at the start

summer nimbus
#

Maybe im washed

wintry solar
#

it happens, its easy to pick back up now

hasty warren
eternal hound
#

blizz just trashed their own UI

hasty warren
#

but if it's all the time it's weird

eternal hound
#

It's very annoying

summer nimbus
#

I mean it happens after like a few mins in combat

wintry solar
#

with 100% uptime on a dummy though?

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I see

summer nimbus
#

I dont have gravedigger final point thi

quaint mauve
#

whats the fix man

summer nimbus
#

So that might be the reason

quaint mauve
#

like

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deleting bcdm?

eternal hound
quaint mauve
#

do u lose ur trackers?

eternal hound
#

Anything set up in the CDM will stay

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But anything you did in BCDM will likely need to be redone unfort

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Like positioning should stay the same if you just did the groups

fathom bramble
#

nothing on arcui is giving me any problems except RTB disappearing while still active

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but it might be a blizzard issue

eternal hound
#

Yeah I've seen that one too

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I'd rather have that then infinite lua errors thou

quaint mauve
#

i just wish

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i knew a fix to this issue

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bc idk anyone having the same problem

hasty warren
#

don't panic Ion said bliz have the ability to replace addons for midnight 🙂

quaint mauve
#

my shit just all disappears

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and im still having the bug where i have to click edit mode everytime to fix my ui when i load up

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like

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its so obnoxious man

gaunt phoenix
#

Reject addons

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Except there is no native trinket display ..

fathom bramble
#

reject on use trinkets

gaunt phoenix
#

Reject trinkets

fathom bramble
#

I already got a decent on use trinket so I'm trapped now

image.png
gaunt phoenix
#

MfdHOLY

fathom bramble
#

it reads like that at first doesn't it

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it's actually just on use stat and has no real interaction with killing the mob

summer nimbus
#

U cant track trinkets with manager?

quaint mauve
summer nimbus
#

Thats cooked

gaunt phoenix
#

No

summer nimbus
#

How do they not think to inplement that

gaunt phoenix
#

Maybe cause the cdm is whitelisted

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They would have to add every use trinket in the game

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Idk

quaint mauve
#

solo

fathom bramble
#

trinkets already have a global list for the weird tank/healer stuff though right

quaint mauve
#

fix it

fathom bramble
#

just grab that one and slap it on

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that should cover it

summer nimbus
#

Its alright non on use supremacy anways

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I dont want to bind two more buttons

lime lake
#

addons can track them pretty easily at least

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or like, worst case scenario just put it on a bar and drag it up there

summer nimbus
#

In the end we go back to the addons anyways…

lime lake
#

they are never going anywhere

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blizzard will never cover every customization players could want

ashen void
#

gg blizzadr wow how owned are they

fathom bramble
#

I mean all I did was use arcui to replicate my old WAs as closely as reasonably possible

#

what blizz really wanted was to kill computational addons

summer nimbus
#

Are targeted by weak auras and stuff still possible

fathom bramble
#

which I basically didn't have in my ui

lime lake
#

its an addon now

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but it seems to work fine

buoyant rampart
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
summer nimbus
#

Bruh all they did was make me redo all my ui to get it to the same thing anyways

keen belfry
#

solo why couldnt we prep after 2nd BTE goes on CD in opener

quaint mauve
#

well i searched everywhere

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no one has the issue im having

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ggs ig

keen belfry
#

that way u can not waste a global in AR with prep usually

quaint mauve
#

I FOUND THJE FIX

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LETS GO

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I DID IT

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THE GAME IS NO LONGER GIVING ME AIDS

summer nimbus
keen belfry
#

u are sitting on AR regardless cuz its still active

summer nimbus
#

Well u put prep on cd earlier ig

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And prob waste less BR cdr

keen belfry
#

iirc prep doesnt care much for BR CDR in the sim

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and yes u would lose a cast of prep if the fight is shorter than 4:15 but longer than 4min

summer nimbus
#

I wish prep was ogcd. Would be based

keen belfry
#

ye

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an extra gcd in is probably worth it

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esp in opener

bright crane
#

world server down for u guys too?

keen belfry
#

but, its also just one extra gcd in ar haha

keen belfry
bright crane
#

weird

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i cant log in

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keeps booting me back to char selection

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there it goes

silk dirge
#

what race is bis for law?

cinder relic
#

Panda or Mechagnome

vagrant jacinth
#

do professions matter at all these days?

cinder relic
#

alchemy gets you +1 hour flask

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and then engineering has the wormholes

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But thats abt it

buoyant rampart
#

This new UI shit is broken and buggy fuck u blizzard 🖕

#

@anyblizzardemployee here who voted to remove WA's

hollow temple
#

ended up just turning off every unnecessary addon until i figured it out

quaint mauve
hollow temple
#

i don't think so

quaint mauve
#

i turned it off, moved my ui where i wanted then turned it back on

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that fixed it

hollow temple
#

there's so many addons doing the same stuff now

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i have cdm centered

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and just imported all of luxthos' stuff for right now

frigid shale
#

!tricks

ornate heathBOT
rotund zodiac
#

Any addons that play sound when abilities ready to use or buffs running out?

#

!wa

ornate heathBOT
cobalt token
#

😭

tropic zephyr
quaint mauve
#

bcm

tropic zephyr
#

Does it have the center option?

#

I use centered CDM and that's pretty much it rn

quaint mauve
#

i think so

tropic zephyr
serene urchin
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
honest lotus
#

!fuu

ornate heathBOT
serene urchin
#

just curious if there still exists those range tracking BF refresh addons

#

now that WA is gone

inland acorn
still matrix
#

Are reshiwraps still worth using?

inland acorn
still matrix
#

with boots?

inland acorn
#

Yes

#

When you get cloak and boots on adventurer track, you should sim, as reshi wraps might lose at that point

still matrix
#

ok ill sim

soft abyss
#

does someone use wangbar? i want to find the option to change thresholds based on spec (cant find it). Anyone any idea?

still matrix
#

my sims want me to put on cape but not boots

inland acorn
#

boots might be loosing due to agility difference maybe

#

Still, i think following sim is safe bet

still matrix
#

im about to go get that 230 cape so wraps might lose to

serene urchin
#

smth like that is impossible now?

thick pelican
#

Hard to believe we cznt just move specific icon around on base ui for things like that

inland acorn
#

at least on dummies, not sure if dungeons/raid/m+ will be different

mighty pivot
#

rip homie. he died for our skins

image.png
lime lake
#

thats kap

quaint mauve
#

why do we talent into shiv

flat karma
#

enrage dispell

static crescent
#

hmm, kinda annoyed seperating proc from Ace up your sleeve or apex

normal forge
static crescent
#

any tools for this

fringe niche
#

!wa

ornate heathBOT
static crescent
#

ArcUI supports hidden bullets count?

#

oh nvm so does blizzard shizzle

fathom holly
#

guys it just dawned upon me

#

why do they just not remove energy

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its a shitty outdated ressource

untold wadi
#

hire him

river wing
# fathom holly its a shitty outdated ressource

if you, for some ungodly reason, want a real answer to the meme:
because it would necessitate majorly reworking all Rogue specs, and likely inventing them anew overall
the current design process for pretty much every (old) spec in the game is just an ebb and flow of "let's take inspiration from how this spec functioned in 2008/2010/2012" and "nevermind revert that to the 2016/2018/2020 version"

#

i.e. Assa occasionally returns to pooling not because it's the objective best way to design it, but because that used to define Assa at some point and it stuck, so you don't need to invent a new way to keep Assa slow-but-sometimes-dumping-hard
a lot of design is just 20-yr-old accumulation of cruft

compact torrent
#

I can’t find anything about what is supposed to be crafted in Week 1. Sorry guys, but can someone help me out? And when crafting a weapon, which embellishment are you supposed to choose?

sly bone
#

is this low tier bait for me to go Outlaw for another season just to get duped and beaten by sub rogues?!?!?!?!?!

image.png
#

coz ill do it! ILL DO IT!

normal forge
sly bone
#

first craft is weapon, followed by Embellishment items

#

coz its gonna be a minute before we get the BiS weapon from looks at notes LAST FRIGGING BOSS

normal forge
sly bone
#

not sure where the other weapons line up between BiS vs Crafted

river wing
sly bone
#

well if you're following LCL, we'll be doing 1 weapon craft first and crafting Vet gear for affix fodder

still matrix
#

can the pvp gear be upgraded? wondering if the galactic aspirants insignia will be good again

still matrix
normal forge
#

im saving my first craft for weapon but on week 2 or 3, so i can make it higher lvl asap

still matrix
#

But tbh we always good on sims start of season

sly bone
#

bro we were top the whole of S2 and S3 (sims ofc)

still matrix
#

blizz nerfed outlaw s1 last xpac because of sims

sly bone
#

and still got shafted sideways from RNGesus

still matrix
#

before raid cam eout

sly bone
#

atleast the RNG isnt as strong as last expansion

still matrix
#

based on m0 damage i swear

sly bone
#

i feel like the vito buff of Reduced ST and instead bump up BF damage was a fumble AGAIN

#

ill most likely take the bait and go Outlaw main spec AGAIN but if i get duped again. i swear im gonna go live under a rock and come out a kitty.

timid portal
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
verbal raptor
#

/sheet

hasty warren
ornate heathBOT
radiant root
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
upper hawk
still matrix
#

so if we're just locked in outlaw

#

do we just craft main hand wep?

gaunt phoenix
#

Yeah, probably

lilac lion
#

Is it Good for us?

image0.jpg
still matrix
#

my 230 trinkets sim higher

gaunt phoenix
#

I don't think it's implemented in simc

#

Probably cause the tooltip tells you fuck all on what it's doing

#

my assumption is crit = good

lilac lion
#

Yeah. I mean crit?

#

Its our best sec statt right?

gaunt phoenix
#

ye

viral ruin
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
still matrix
#

Would be scared to craft any item that says spellbreakers on it, it sounds like its gonna roll to a int wep

#

farstriders chopper sounds much safer

gaunt phoenix
#

shout out to that guy who logged in at the start of a new tier and thought the patch accidentally converted his crafted weapons to int

#

when bro just had int weapons the whole time

leaden sonnet
#

So many people coming in here with the int dagger from the nightfall event

fervent garden
#

man i gotta get my ass in gear. still wallowing in lev 87 with shit ilev

gaunt phoenix
#

I don't think there's a whole lot of rush

balmy topaz
fervent garden
#

did Vault open yesterday for this coming week?

forest surge
#

Does anyone know if it's possible to get more than 120 Veteran Dawncrests this week? Just through M0 and HC Prey?

tight kernel
#

Tomelvis still 80? HOLY unless he didnt want to give money to blizz which then based

upper hawk
#

this apex bullet buff needs to be like twice as long or just not expire. this is the only apex talent i've played with that trolls me

mystic berry
#

It never procs with me

lilac lion
#

Make it sense to craft a weapon? Or still bracers with emblish?

shy sandal
#

yall doing weapon for 1st craft?

tropic zephyr
#

myself i'm crafting wrists, I just know I'm going to get BiS first vault

gaunt phoenix
#

Arcanoweave Lining (leather items) or Darkmoon Sigil: Hunt (weapon) should be like identical bonuses

#

If you are sold on outlaw then you should craft a main hand

#

will be the fastest way to get a mythic main hand

#

But if you expect to be sin/sub for prog then you should probably make a dagger, then at least outlaw can still use it

toxic gate
#

Is any one spec way ahead of the other right now? I was leveling as sub, not really feeling sin as I've been playing it for a while, so was going to swap over to outlaw and goof around a bit, but just curious if there was a big gap either way in terms of DPS? I've read sub is pretty good for M+, but just seems a bit meh on ST from the bit of leveling I've done. Thanks

leaden sonnet
#

The game is very unbalanced right now because blizzard decided not to do any tuning until the 17th

#

So we are expecting a very large amount of class tuning changes coming then, which kinda invalidates any data from now

gaunt phoenix
#

it's hard to say, if you are omega slamming keys, there will always be a winner

#

and outlaw is ... unlikely given its history

leaden sonnet
#

Fortunately rogues massive utility suite will still make it desireable for m+ groups!

gaunt phoenix
#

but you would need to really consider what competitive content you are or aren't doing

pearl niche
#

Do we completely never use Ambush now only Sinister Strike in its place?

gaunt phoenix
#

that's correct

pearl niche
#

Thank you!

gaunt phoenix
#

unless they tune the Ambush talents to be better and we swap to them

#

which they could

#

but yeah raw ambush is stinky

toxic gate
#

I will be mythic raiding, we usually get CE or get pretty close. I am going to play outlaw some anyways, it sounds interesting with it being a bit more simple, sub is almost TOO simple for me, didn't try sin yet

gaunt phoenix
#

I would bet on sub or being both

#

very few people onetrick outlaw to CE

#

I mean, some people make it work

#

and it's possible it's an outlaw favored tier like nathria

#

but there hasn't been an outlaw favored tier since nathria

toxic gate
#

yeah I've noticed that, always seems like outlaw have a few spots, but sub usually needed to min/max

#

or just play sin to sort get a B/C kind of grade through it all 🙂

still matrix
gaunt phoenix
#

those two should also be basically the same

#

Embellishments are like a whole 0.7% dps

still matrix
#

a WHOLE 0.7% jheeeesh

gaunt phoenix
#

not a whole lot of room there

still matrix
#

i'd do things for 0.7% solo

gaunt phoenix
#

you'd get more dps race changing to Pandaren

still matrix
#

hunt is 157dps more than void in my sims

gaunt phoenix
#

that sounds like it's the same result

still matrix
#

pmuch

gaunt phoenix
#

anything within 0.05% or so is within the error margin

#

Oh also hunt depends on enemy type a bit

image.png
#

sims probably just average the whole thing

leaden sonnet
#

Whispyr asked, its apparently averages to the bosses in the raid. So something like 1/8 of the bosses being beast/mechanical gives the sim 1/8 of the uptime to be crit

#

As an example

gaunt phoenix
#

i see

leaden sonnet
#

Which is certainly one way to do it

gaunt phoenix
#

iunno i'll probably just go with void

#

or the one that is cheaper

craggy quiver
#

I dunno when but they patched out the aoe blind

#

Was working sometime yesterday

gaunt phoenix
#

it was patched yesterday

#

can't have shit !

balmy topaz
#

Wait what

#

We lost aoe blind?!??

leaden sonnet
#

Turns out removing it from the tooltip meant they intended to remove it

near holly
#

cant have us being useful in mass aoe

balmy topaz
#

So we now bring literally nothing

gaunt phoenix
#

it just took them months to log into rogue and play it in a key

#

to see

warm patio
#

!spreadsheet

ornate heathBOT
gleaming reef
gaunt phoenix
#

Food buffs are stronk

leaden sonnet
#

Food is good this expac

gleaming reef
#

oh

balmy topaz
gleaming reef
#

I'm a mechagnome

#

,

#

<

balmy topaz
#

But maybe it was an accident NOOOO

leaden sonnet
#

Mechagnome is good too

gaunt phoenix
#

Mecha is good too

leaden sonnet
#

Dw

gleaming reef
#

I was looking at Haranir tbh

balmy topaz
#

I think by 12.1 panda and dwarf/tauren will be equal

#

You get defensive benefit from dwarf/tauren so

gaunt phoenix
#

pandaren should stay up there as we switch to Secondary food

leaden sonnet
#

If we cant have an AoE stop i think they should double down on making our ST stops even more ridiculously strong. Sure kidney is 8 seconds but it can easily get griefed by another stun, so i think it should just ignore DR (in Pve)

balmy topaz
craggy quiver
#

Can I go back to being a panda

leaden sonnet
#

yes

gaunt phoenix
#

i might go panda

#

i prefer the smol races

leaden sonnet
#

Panda male has smooth animations

warm patio
#

whats the % dps increase on tier set alone?

leaden sonnet
#

Eleemrogue hasnt been panda since legion/bfa

#

So hes back now

gaunt phoenix
#

1.5% -> 3%

4.5% total

gleaming reef
#

So we want panda and eat secondary stat food not primary stat?

leaden sonnet
#

No, eat primary

warm patio
#

appreciated

balmy topaz
gaunt phoenix
#

No, you eat primary for now. but secondary will scale better next tier or whatever

gleaming reef
#

Might change to mechagnome to squeeze that extra 1%

#

I mean

#

panda

craggy quiver
#

Everything on panda is S tier

#

Male panda is S +++

balmy topaz
#

Panda goes hard

rocky kiln
#

!fuu

ornate heathBOT
gleaming reef
#

Does Panda bouncy stack with safe fall?

#

Hmm food buff is +50 primary,
Mecha also stacks to +50 primary eventually.

#

but it decays

leaden sonnet
gleaming reef
#

any thoughts on the Crucible of Erratic energies?

#

it seems like a early BiS but sims keep throwing it out

leaden sonnet
#

It doesnt work in sims

gleaming reef
#

oh darn

#

so I should actually replace something with it then

leaden sonnet
#

No? Keep it

gleaming reef
#

No I mean

#

I replace a trinket

#

to use it

#

I got 2 on-use trinkets from M0 world tour atm

#

but I think this one might be stronger

gaunt phoenix
#

change this to Latest.

#

The erratic trinket was added moments ago

image.png
#

it's not known what the Protocol buffs are doing exactly and if it works in instances. for now it will just sim as giving the crit as the first part of the tooltip says

gleaming reef
#

ok

#

nice, thanks!

#

I suspect it's quite good cause of the crit buff?

#

25% is a lot

gaunt phoenix
#

I assume crit = good

gleaming reef
#

ya

#

but the on use trinkets can be used together too

#

strange

#

i thought it triggered a cooldown

leaden sonnet
#

Its not 25% crit

#

Thats only in the outdoor voidstorm zone

gleaming reef
#

oh

leaden sonnet
#

Its 208 crit

gaunt phoenix
#

208 is 5% or smth

gleaming reef
#

gah

#

my freightrunners adds 327

#

but on use

leaden sonnet
#

If its was 25% it would be insanely OP

gleaming reef
#

so really boils down to PPM

mighty pivot
#

I learnt about airborne irritant fix the hard way CE_Pain

jolly geyser
#

shit,its fixed?

mighty pivot
#

having an aoe stop is too op with all the utility rogue brings

random stirrup
#

no way they actually took aoe blind away AINTNOWAY

fair iron
#

i should have stayed logged out

gaunt phoenix
#

talent_airborne_irritant_blind Airborne Irritant is hotfixed

Rogue no longer has an AoE stop at all.

That's all Surebud

gaunt phoenix
gleaming reef
#

....

wooden pilot
old gull
gleaming reef
#

hotfix super charger ><

unkempt dew
inland meteor
gaunt phoenix
#

Bte has a chance to accidentally consume it twice

#

it's still good just random bug

brittle pelican
#

who gives the quest for the 246 item in zulaman?

coral wolf
#

Renown Quartermaster for every faction

brittle pelican
#

aaah thanks

lone depot
crimson scarab
#

hey guys, a quick question

#

how viable do you see outlaw in a raiding scenario compared to sub and assa

#

do you think its going to be competitive?

keen belfry
frail veldt
#

and at current tuning levels its also not ahead enough of the other two to really have much value

#

it might be used in earlier fights but the problem with outlaw in prog is that you have to spend a craft to make a sword which would put you behind for the other two specs

#

so most rogue mains in competitive raiding guilds will craft dagger first and usually opt out of playing outlaw unless its very overtuned

crimson scarab
#

i mean for sub you can always use the sword as off spec

#

and go dagger main hand

frail veldt
#

well then youd have a weak mainhand

crimson scarab
#

ofc vice versa for outlaw

frail veldt
#

the point isnt if you could use the weapon its what the value of that craft is

crimson scarab
#

its an unfortunate tradeoff

frail veldt
#

yeah its not the only reason tbh

#

outlaw just doesnt bring anything to the table

crimson scarab
#

yeah ofc

frail veldt
#

we lost precise cuts so we dont even have some high value low target cleave anymore

crimson scarab
#

i just dont find the other 2 specs interesting to play

frail veldt
#

this definitely isnt me saying you have to play the other two specs

crimson scarab
#

i totally understand

#

i guess once the season starts i will see for myself

#

which works better

#

and etc

leaden sonnet
#

Youre better of with a dogshit dagger than a sword in your offhand

frail veldt
#

yeah shadowy techniques

leaden sonnet
#

Sub loses like 10% of its energy and combo point regen if you use a sword

frail veldt
#

but this really only applies to being in a higher end raiding guild

#

like HoF or higher

#

if youre just in a CE guild play whatever you want

crimson scarab
#

im in a more casual guild

#

not super competitive

frail veldt
#

yeah then just play outlaw

crimson scarab
#

okay

#

thanks a lot for the advices

balmy topaz
#

Loktark one tricks outlaw

#

And he’s HoF

#

It’s possible just not optimal

frail veldt
#

yeah just need some nice friends

#

and you have to make sure youre not in the bottom half of the players on your team probably haha

balmy topaz
#

As long as you’re mechanically sound and self aware of mistakes

#

Can’t ask for a better player

nova sinew
balmy topaz
#

Where is that

nova sinew
#

dimensius lol

balmy topaz
#

Nice he has 1 log as sub on dimi

gaunt phoenix
#

that's like 1 of 4 instances where even lok couldnt stay outlaw for prog

balmy topaz
#

True

nova sinew
#

i doubt we will see another dimensius any time soon

balmy topaz
#

They are so keen to make outlaw not good

#

On last 2 bosses

#

Perma

nova sinew
#

outlaw not allowed to be good

#

something something bfa

wooden pilot
#

What is the go to for party/raid frames now?

nova sinew
#

default seems fine as rogue

cinder relic
normal forge
#

im liking KIR better now

cinder relic
#

A big issue outlaw has is that a lot of tiers, it's like, just as good or barely better/worse. The times where its better its like, lets say 5% better, most of the best rogues in the world aren't practiced on Outlaw, where they aren't going to actually extract a 5% damage increase

#

And also, "Meh who cares, Dagger specs are almost as good anyway"

#

Plus, the crafting system really wants you to craft a weapon first, meaning you have to kinda commit to one or the other

vivid vessel
#

i mean outlaw also lost the niches it had tho

cinder relic
#

The whole damage profile thing Does matter, but there have been a handful of tiers where the damage profile legit doesn't matter either way

vivid vessel
#

and its important in raid

#

sure

normal forge
#

fury warrior has taken our niche

vivid vessel
#

but like

#

even when outlaw is tuned 5% ahead on paper

#

it doesnt end up being enough

#

just cause damage profiles

#

so its kinda hard to have it tuned good

rotund zodiac
#

!tricks

ornate heathBOT
frail veldt
#

not that ours is necessarily that awful

#

flat can only be so bad

#

but when the alternative is sub

#

and so many fights in prog have like really relevant damage windows, its hard to compete

cinder relic
#

which ahs only mattered on specifically mugzee

frail veldt
#

at least in those tiers where sin was good it was a good PI class too

#

so it like amplifies

cinder relic
#

I think every raid usually has a better PI target than sin

#

Like in undermine post sin buff, sin was just better

gaunt phoenix
#

it's true some tiers are literally just tuning

cinder relic
#

but sins CDs kinda lined up not great on that tier

frail veldt
#

but it also does get hero value

cinder relic
#

Outside of specifically mugzee cuz execute

frail veldt
#

im not saying tuning is irrelevant for the other specs

#

but it just is more relevant for outlaw

#

it needs a lot to put it in meta

cinder relic
#

like subs profile was just better on every undermine fight, but sin was just like, 5-10% better so u played it

frail veldt
#

outlaws design makes it more reliant on tuning than the other two rogue specs imo

wicked forge
#

well I'm going outlaw for the fun, dont get what's 'best spec atm'

cinder relic
#

I mean both in CN and Vault, Outlaw was just a better spec, but only really the Outlaw specialists played it

frail veldt
cinder relic
#

It was like 5-10% better but nobody played it other than like, me/lok/my corogue lol

#

We played double outlaw for almost all of vault

#

good times

frail veldt
vivid vessel
#

but back then we still had a niche at least tho

#

we had cleave

#

and acro

frail veldt
#

like if it was truly ahead it might actually get some population

vivid vessel
#

we dont even have that anymore

wicked forge
vivid vessel
#

how much better does outlaw needs to be

gaunt phoenix
#

tww really soured my perception of how they look at tuning, cause it was obvious outlaw didnt get tuned in raid specifically cause soul hunters was inflating it, and then they either dont look at keys or only look at weekly +10 completion

frail veldt
#

probably like 8-10%

frail veldt
cinder relic
#

Idt they "didnt balance because outlaw cuz soulhunter" cuz like, even on the aggrigate, outlaw wasn't good

vivid vessel
#

outlaw got nerfed

#

while we know it was bad

cinder relic
#

Like this was 11.2 right

image.png
gaunt phoenix
#

iirc the aggregate was average for awhile

cinder relic
#

I wouldn't call this average personally

#

this is legit bottom 5

fossil lintel
gaunt phoenix
#

yeah that's by the end of the tier

cinder relic
#

and this is 11.2.5

image.png
#

This is literally bottom 1

#

They just... didn't do much balancing in S3

frail veldt
cinder relic
#

The reasons why is anybodys guess

keen belfry
#

as soon as dimmy/saladbar entered publiuc logs we went further down

frail veldt
#

if you take out that boss were a joke of a spec

#

tank levels

cinder relic
#

Was it because they moved resources off for Midnight, or because they didn't want to because "who cares"

#

Any individual reason may be true

frail veldt
#

3 tier xpac

#

too hard for them pacing wise

cinder relic
#

but I don't think it was "Outlaw was good on soul hunters, therefore it didn't get buffed"

#

I think thats the least plausable reason personally

frail veldt
#

but its because outlaw was good on soul hunters

#

that it was overlooked

#

if there was no soul hunters I would definitely think we would have seen some buff

vivid vessel
#

no its cause pc existed

fossil lintel
#

I mean, how do you buff outlaw without making it busted on soul hunters?

vivid vessel
#

and outlaw padded so much

#

on these 2 useless fights

frail veldt
keen belfry
#

pc made us hard to tune in raid cleave

gaunt phoenix
#

there was absolutely a time where outlaw's aggregate was fine from soul hunters specifically

cinder relic
#

And again, personally I don't think its fair to have 1 shit raid tier balance wise, and then just write off the entire idea of "proper balance"

#

cuz how many tier has outlaw been very competitive

#

Like almost every other tier?

fossil lintel
vivid vessel
#

but it wasnt 1 raid tier tho

#

it was 3 tiers in a row where we were the worse of the 3 specs no

cinder relic
#

In nerubar it was like, fine

#

It was slightly worse/slightly better, which I'd consider fine

keen belfry
vivid vessel
#

like there was 0 reason to play it at all

cinder relic
#

We have very different definitions of unplayable

crimson arch
#

hey, i used to use this wa https://wago.io/kXPUAlqBA to change my graphic settings in dungeons. Does any1 know an addon or sth that can still do the same?

Raid Graphics Settings in Dungeons

Sets the Base graphics settings to your Raid and Battleground graphics settings while in a Dungeon to improve framerate,

cinder relic
#

Like heres nexus princess logs

image.png
#

All 3 specs are like, balanced enough

#

Same with a fight like sikran

image.png
fossil lintel
#

How has no one forked WAs yet and called it debilitated auras?

vivid vessel
#

i mean that was end of tier we got buffed

cinder relic
#

Heres 11.0

image.png
#

Like, you can be of the mind that this is "Outlaw is unplayable"

#

But this is like, where outlaw usually ends up and is to me, fine

gaunt phoenix
#

to me it seems like if outlaw is good, it's happenstance
if outlaw is bad, they are less likely to figure it out and react accordingly

cinder relic
#

It's "about as good, slightly worse/slightly better"

vivid vessel
leaden sonnet
cinder relic
#

What window of time do u want me to look at

#

I can look at random fights, on random patches

#

Outlaw is fine and competitive on most fights, on most patches

vivid vessel
#

i mean you take the only fight where outlaw was good

#

there is always one fight a tier outlaw does good

cinder relic
#

What about this fight

image.png
fossil lintel
#

Didn't you have to run out for charges?

vapid sundial
#

wasnt outlaw good on the other st boss as well

vivid vessel
#

eh that was all pad

cinder relic
#

What about this fight

image.png
vivid vessel
#

i mean

cinder relic
#

What about this fight

image.png
vivid vessel
#

:D

#

LOL

#

idk if you are trolling or not

cinder relic
#

Like what fights am I allowed to look at

frail veldt
#

are you only searching rogue specs?

cinder relic
#

Tell me which I'm allowed to include, and exclude

cinder relic
frail veldt
#

oh

vapid sundial
fossil lintel
#

So the fact that the spec with the highest variance out of the 3 managed to get 1 parse on the top 10 doesn't mean much

craggy quiver
#

I thought outlaw was pretty ok that tier

cinder relic
#

They were

frail veldt
cinder relic
#

OUtlaw has a lower sample size

#

Its going to naturally be less populated

frail veldt
#

not necessarily

cinder relic
#

Okay

vapid sundial
#

i wonder why outlaw has a lower sample size

frail veldt
#

when looking at top 10

vapid sundial
#

maybe its bc the class sucked

#

hmm

cinder relic
#

?

vivid vessel
frail veldt
#

I mean guy you talk all the time about selection bias

vivid vessel
#

like you litteraly

#

i cant believe you sent a screen

cinder relic
#

what fights am I allowed to look at zac

frail veldt
#

outlaw has quite a few very good very dedicated players

vivid vessel
#

of broodtwister

#

bro

#

no bro

cinder relic
#

Tell me which fights I'm allowed to look at

vivid vessel
#

you know what you are allowed to look at

frail veldt
#

you can look at all of those fights but I dont think any of them prove your point

vivid vessel
#

we are talking prog

#

right

#

dont act stupid with me

#

lol

#

why would you do that

hollow creek
#

!wa

ornate heathBOT
cinder relic
#

Does sikran count?

image.png
frail veldt
#

count for what

#

end of season charts?

#

what point are you proving

balmy topaz
#

Not like

#

The whole tier

cinder relic
#

The point I'm trying to make is "Outlaw was fine in nerubar"

vivid vessel
#

was boss 3 tho

balmy topaz
#

While prog is happening

frail veldt
cinder relic
#

Okay

vivid vessel
#

100% uptime boss

#

and outlaw was still not the best spec on the boss

frail veldt
#

end of season leaderboards have nothing to do with how good a spec was in prog

keen belfry
#

when rank 1 outlaw players flood the topcharts next to 100 other assa random players it doesnt really mean outlaw good

#

imo

cinder relic
#

Sure whatever Outlaw sucks every tier

gaunt phoenix
#

i thought nerubar was a tier where outlaw was fine

vapid sundial
#

now you're getting it

lime lake
#

Solo said it so I agree

vapid sundial
cinder relic
vapid sundial
#

rank 1 rogue**

cinder relic
#

Castle Nathria and Sanctum it was fine

vapid sundial
vivid vessel
#

all these were when outlaw still had a niche tho

#

i said that before

#

i think its relevant

frail veldt
vivid vessel
#

it was the only spec that could cleave

frail veldt
#

like when outlaws "fine" its literally topping the meters constantly hawha

#

isnt that kinda the point were making

lime lake
#

hawha

keen belfry
vivid vessel
#

well outlw wasnt topping any metters in nerubar

frail veldt
#

outlaw arguably needs overtuning to be even considered "fine"

vapid sundial
#

unironically i think zac is why outlaw didnt get buffs

#

bc blizzard just saw rank 1 was outlaw

cinder relic
fossil lintel
#

Yeah goddamn zac

vapid sundial
#

Im not memeing

keen belfry
#

i ahte zac

vapid sundial
#

blizzard is the type of company to do that imo

vivid vessel
keen belfry
#

that fucking idiot

vivid vessel
#

but you know you do

#

you littteraly linked brood bro

#

idk if thats legal

#

that just be bannable offense

#

if you ask me

cinder relic
#

It was one of the first walls of the tier LOL

vivid vessel
#

and outlaw was turbo useless on the fight haha

lime lake
#

I mean

#

Not saying I agree with him but he legit linked 5/8 fights that tier

#

How many does he need

vivid vessel
#

we didnt play outlaw on a single fight bro

lime lake
#

For it to be considered fine

cinder relic
#

^