#outlaw

1 messages · Page 638 of 1

ornate heathBOT
shy sandal
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thanks

fathom bramble
cinder relic
glass mortar
# fathom bramble

my favorite was doing the side quests in the troll zone, one of them had a troll npc following me around helping me fight stuff while she gave me quests

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but the VA for the trolls is basically "fuck off dont talk to me" everytime u click on them

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blizzard giving me mixed signals

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talk to a flight master "you are lucky i dont MURDER YOU where u stand"

strong halo
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Zac no stream for a full month+

untold wadi
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what's that one rogue streamers name? he's kinda popular, like kupz or somethin

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kush or

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nvm

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kushlul

proven ocean
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Always has been Zerossthinking

untold wadi
formal temple
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auto-attack iis my second highest damage after blade fury, this seems wrong.

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: /

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I must be doing something very wrong.

image.png
frail veldt
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But I think not 2nd place necessarily

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Could be your stats though while you level are funky

formal temple
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yeah, i'll keep practicing the rotation and see how much it changes

hasty warren
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bte looks low

brave lagoon
glass mortar
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its honestly such a toss up while leveling

frail veldt
glass mortar
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ive had dungeons where my breakdown was BF/autos/mg/Bte/dispatch and all 4 of those last ones were 1% apart

hasty warren
glass mortar
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xd

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especially rn with 6% haste

frail veldt
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Hahaha yeaaaah

glass mortar
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sometimes u just dont press buttons for like 20 seconds

brave lagoon
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yeah I had like 7% haste in that dungeon

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I was playing support

frail veldt
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Outlaw is a pretty awful leveling spec

quaint mauve
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i mean while leveling nothing matters tbf

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28 more hours

frail veldt
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Just doesn't work without the right gear

quaint mauve
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then the big hml5 is online

hasty warren
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i can't wait

heavy fiber
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
desert tendon
brave lagoon
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doesn't help that my usual bear tank has some broken dmg spec that rivals most dmg specs right now

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makes me feel real good even in st

frail veldt
desert tendon
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i m currently routing and glitch hunting re9. Also i uninstalled bnet long ago. Also i m out of wow sub since tww mid s2

frail veldt
hasty warren
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gliitch pirate

desert tendon
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i think this game speedrun gonna be fine. Not fire but just fine enough

quaint mauve
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leon parts are not scary at all

desert tendon
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YOU RE MY FRIEND

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holy we re 2 against the world hml

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fk action horror, bring back survival

quaint mauve
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yeah like i wanna be scared man

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like re2 scared the shit outve me man

desert tendon
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not talking more about it here, the game is new, let be spoiler free happy_holiday_pepe

quaint mauve
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ye ik

desert tendon
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i m not a RE fan at all, i m more of silent hill but listen

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RE1 RE2 RE7 my fav

quaint mauve
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real fear

desert tendon
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spoiler : i never liked Leon personally, he's overrated. The only good thing he has for him is rpd

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OG lickers prayge

quaint mauve
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leon b4 he became like superhuman was cool imo

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hes like too op now

desert tendon
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Leon think he is chris

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smh

vapid sundial
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leon goated

desert tendon
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do you like outlaw?

vapid sundial
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no atm

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stinky

desert tendon
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See, bad taste

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proven theory

vapid sundial
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haste tax

desert tendon
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gg

vapid sundial
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stinky

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i will not like outlaw until haste tax is gone

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like what do u mena

desert tendon
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i would have say the same thing either way

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to be truely honest

indigo token
vapid sundial
brave lagoon
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I'll commit seppuku remove myself

hasty warren
brave lagoon
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I just want more haste pepehands

hasty warren
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25% haste tax is crazy

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inflation is hitting us too

final pagoda
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Is the damage really meh in m+ beta?

frail veldt
final pagoda
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On sim?

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Or just by playing?

frail veldt
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In logs from beta

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In sims we look pretty good but that's cuz solo is thorough with the sim apl and doesn't hide any tech

brave lagoon
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gotta sandbag real hard for a season for us to peak back to triple bfa outlaw PirateHeart

viscid swan
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@gaunt phoenix i believe these 2 icons are swapped in the faq

image.png
random stirrup
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that's the loaded dice buff icon

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they swapped the icons for the talents for some reason with midnight

final pagoda
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anyone has simc midnight report?

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!fuu

ornate heathBOT
keen belfry
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i love these zones

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besides voidstorm

frail veldt
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Someone said we're going back to northrend?

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Dis true?

keen belfry
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are we?

frail veldt
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Idk I haven't played yet haha

neat heron
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Guys how often should I use RTB in my rotation? I mean once I got stage 2 or + I do KIR and then stop pressing RTB until the buff is about to finish?

cinder relic
zinc briar
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Pfff guys

cinder relic
cinder relic
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Same type of silvermoon overhaul

zinc briar
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I get desperate and without energy when its a long fight

cinder relic
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More energy needed

frail veldt
zinc briar
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When u are without energy and 0 teas

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Pfff we need like 10 secs afk to get the energy

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And then you waste it 2 skills

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Nah this outlaw is the worst outlaw since...

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Worst since outlaw exists?

silent flint
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Haven't seen it anywhere, but maybe it's too early to tell, but do we know when to use adventurer crests at all? Does it matter?

gaunt phoenix
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It doesn't matter

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Mainhand ilvl is most important

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But you will quickly craft a mainhand in the season

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Dont level cloak, the old ethereal cloak is still better until champion track

gaunt phoenix
# neat heron Guys how often should I use RTB in my rotation? I mean once I got stage 2 or + I...

You should also track the Loaded Dice buff, which is 45 seconds long, and is consumed by the next roll

Sometimes, because of KIR forcing a 60 second RTB buff

There will be moments you have an RTB buff that is just barely ahead of Loaded Dice duration

So, as your buffs tick down you could eventually have an RTB buff with 4 seconds remaining and Loaded Dice with 1 second remaining

In which case you should not let Loaded Dice expire, you should roll a little early to catch it

There's not a strict rule about it as it is too infrequent to effect simulated dps. But it does happen

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!ui

ornate heathBOT
neat heron
hasty warren
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are ppl here playing sham ? wonder if it can be fun for me as former outlaw otp

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sham melee (can't write the spec name)

round dome
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Anyone know of an updated SCT addon similar to Miks?

zinc briar
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omfgggggggggggggggg

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its unplayableeeeeeeeeeeee

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no energyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

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qmweimqweiqwmeioqwnmeoqwnoqiwndkqwd

cinder relic
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I feel like with apex and like, proper play energy is fine, most of the time

lucid sparrow
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i have 9% haste and rarely struggle with energy in any content atm

zinc briar
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bro im 99% parse player

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im not doing nothing wrong

cinder relic
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Oh okay

zinc briar
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trust me it sucks

cinder relic
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Okay

lucid sparrow
zinc briar
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not trying to say im the best or something like that

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i just want to say that i know what im doing

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and it needs more energy

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hope its because i have 14%

lucid sparrow
cinder relic
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maybe ur not!

gaunt phoenix
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guy saying anything

no

cinder relic
lucid sparrow
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rofl

zinc briar
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lol

lucid sparrow
fathom bramble
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only time I've seen a real energy issue is when I have RTB1 and no tea left

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at 13.16%(16.55%) haste

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it's still a problem that you need haste to get it working imo, but it's actually not quite as bad as even I was expecting

cinder relic
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Now that loktark is said it I agree

near rock
fathom bramble
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I think there's a reasonable chance it would feel worse in a real dungeon where you are in combat for 1-3 minutes over and over

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but by then I'll have 22%(25%) haste so

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it'll be fine

cinder relic
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It is worse when ur stopping and starting, but it depends on how much stopping and starting is going on yk

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But yeah, by that time ull have more haste anyway to shore up that factor

zinc briar
pure folio
zinc briar
zinc briar
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its a random reclear

fathom bramble
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if I can get this haste with random junk from delves it can't be that hard to get to an okay level when real content is out

zinc briar
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cant show myth logs

pure folio
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Maybe you’re just real unlucky..

zinc briar
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Its not luck, when you are without tea and 0 energy its super slow

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You need a reset between pulla

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Pulls

cinder relic
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well if you get less opportunity procs than average, you have less energy

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So thats what we would call, bad luck

zinc briar
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And outlaw was the Monster of chain pulls

cinder relic
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If you RTB 1s, and never hit jackpot, thats what we would call, bad luck

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Bad luck = more teas needed to function

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If you roll jackpot every time, and hit opportuniy proc on every time, you would literally use 0 teas on an entire encounter

elder roost
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yoo dumbass rogue question. When we get the reset on BTE we still use a builder to get to 5 combo points right? we dont just insta re-BTE

cinder relic
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You still build as normal yeah

gaunt phoenix
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you still build, and you bte at 6, not 5

cinder relic
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^

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for FB u dispatch at 5 or more

elder roost
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oh shit

cinder relic
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BTE u 6 or more

elder roost
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why at 6?

cinder relic
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BTE deal big damage, want to spend it at higher values

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FB has a bunch of passives that are "finishers at 5 or more CP" so for dispatch its better to race to trigger those

gaunt phoenix
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bte wants to consume Zero In at higher cps

meanwhile dispatch flips coins better and procs scoundrel strike at 5cps, so it just happens to like 5cp a bit better

cinder relic
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yerrr

elder roost
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ahh ok

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but the diff between 6 and 7 on bte is minimal

cinder relic
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too much overcappage to consistently aim for 7

gaunt phoenix
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overcabbage

neat heron
gaunt phoenix
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you definitely use deeper

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where do you see that?

neat heron
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uhh

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wowhead

gaunt phoenix
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show

cinder relic
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Yeah show

gaunt phoenix
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there are 47 wowhead pages

cinder relic
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This is what I see

image.png
fathom bramble
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are you below level 90?

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if you import something that is higher level than you it will untalent stuff

neat heron
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prolly what is what is happening lol

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that*

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sorryyyy guys

gaunt phoenix
elder roost
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Thanks yall

pearl topaz
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!ui

ornate heathBOT
cinder relic
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These delves are honestly so good

silent flint
pearl topaz
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how tf do I turn combo points off on default raidframes (the ones under my player frame)

gaunt phoenix
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You can't. You need a unit frame addon

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If you still want the same "look" as default, BetterBlizzFrames will do it

grave rose
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!up

ornate heathBOT
eternal hound
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Hu guys, just be to sure well I set up my bars

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Vanish isn't in the dps rota, correct?

frank finch
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no

eternal hound
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Thank god

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Still trying to fit the ungodly level of keybinds here

covert kestrel
untold wadi
eternal hound
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...

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tf u mean

untold wadi
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i made a little thing to track my keybinds

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its kinda helpful

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to see what's open

eternal hound
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Like...compared to frost or warr it feels ungodly

hearty stump
untold wadi
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just use alt/shift modkeys and u have almost tripled ur binds

eternal hound
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oh I am

hearty stump
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is my setup good, idk, but it works

F6377D84-63FF-4527-AA8F-E1F7F089F971.png
eternal hound
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It's just a bit overwhelming compared to what I usually play. I have decided outlaw is probs gonna be my main alt

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...

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I forgot to bind shadowmeld

untold wadi
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shift+r

eternal hound
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It's on Alt +C now lol

untold wadi
eternal hound
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look my keybinds are cursed

untold wadi
#

alt binds are peak

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ctrl gets mogged by alt

eternal hound
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I am

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gonna have to get used to this

untold wadi
covert kestrel
eternal hound
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They will make zero senbse

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But sure!

covert kestrel
eternal hound
final pagoda
gaunt phoenix
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there isnt one yet

final pagoda
#

do we have any idea about outlaw's APM delta vs prior patches?

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I didn't test it in the beta and I am trying to understand if outlaw is still worth

gaunt phoenix
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our apm is 67 or so

final pagoda
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in TWW3 it was 83

gaunt phoenix
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yep

final pagoda
#

yikes that's a bummer

eternal hound
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Man I've only played frost

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I forgot what it felt like to play a fast spec

final pagoda
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67 is residentsleeper

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at this point let's just reroll demo

gaunt phoenix
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duality of man

final pagoda
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@gaunt phoenix how do you feel about the spec?

gaunt phoenix
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i still have fun with it

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Wish it had 2 charges of AR

final pagoda
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are you gonna play it in m+ or raid?

gaunt phoenix
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of course

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this outlaw is not too dissimilar to how it was in bfa

final pagoda
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was it only 67 apm on bfa?

gaunt phoenix
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yes

final pagoda
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I remember being faster, or prob I was just much worst back then

gaunt phoenix
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unless adrenaline rush is permanent, you wont get much faster than 60

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since 60 is gcd locked for energy spec

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permanent adrenaline rush made that 75

keen belfry
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6 7

gaunt phoenix
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and then off global buttons like vanish and gs made it 80

keen belfry
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vanish awweyes

final pagoda
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wasn't gs off global in SL ?

eternal hound
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OKAY

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After all that I have outlaw ready

gaunt phoenix
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i dont think so, that was changed in dragonflight

cinder relic
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It was changed in the rework wasn't it

gaunt phoenix
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yea

serene urchin
#

hey havent played since weakauras died, what UI are outlaws using now?

untold wadi
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vangbar

final pagoda
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I see

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In SL it was ~70 apm

eternal hound
untold wadi
gaunt phoenix
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
keen belfry
#

vangwbar

final pagoda
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but AR was ~30% uptime if I remember correctly

serene urchin
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Oh wow thats alot of stuff alright ill check it out thanks guys

cinder relic
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I dont think the difference between 65 and 70 apm is like, genuinely noticable

gaunt phoenix
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the base cooldown manager is fine

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i recommend bcdm to add trinkets

final pagoda
keen belfry
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ya im usiung base cdm + centered + wang bar

eternal hound
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Man I dropped sensei's for just arcs

final pagoda
#

I am just skeptic to go back and grind in this game if they made outlaw much slower and simpler

keen belfry
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every spec is much slower and simpler rn

final pagoda
#

it was the only thing that kept me going at playing this

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after decades

eternal hound
#

I mean also evrey spec is slow af rn cuz zero gear and zero optimization

gaunt phoenix
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base cdm with trinket + wangbar + something for simple unit frames + plater/playtynator

serene urchin
keen belfry
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thats what i do

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solo copying me

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whatever

gaunt phoenix
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i learn from the best

keen belfry
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solo remember the apex before AR rule

final pagoda
keen belfry
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has to be a gain

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has to

gaunt phoenix
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i'm done being a sim monkey for just a little bit

keen belfry
#

!riot

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its not super often but it would lead to more bte uptime

cinder relic
# final pagoda after decades

Idk, if the only thing keeping u going was 1 specific spec being complicated/convoluted then yeah, probs not the expac to come back

keen belfry
gaunt phoenix
serene urchin
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do u think they simplified specs in anticipation to removing WAs

final pagoda
serene urchin
cinder relic
#

Depends entierly what you wanted out of the spec

final pagoda
cinder relic
#

I hated outlaw for like, 2 years lol

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So to me, new outlaw is back to being fun again

final pagoda
#

why you hated it?

cinder relic
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I hated AR being 100% uptime

gaunt phoenix
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i think outlaw is still engaging enough, the 6cp bte and 5cp dispatch is very easy to fuck up

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we never really had a finisher rule that was different with what finisher was available

eternal hound
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...wait we want to dispatch at 5?

cinder relic
gaunt phoenix
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fatebound does, yes

cinder relic
#

So easy that everybody keeps learning it today

frail veldt
cinder relic
eternal hound
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Cheif I know literally nothing about rogue lmafo

frail veldt
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in pre patch we didnt have htis rule

final pagoda
eternal hound
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I read the guide for pre patch and am avoiding other shit so it makes sense at max

gaunt phoenix
#

fatebound also wants to sinister strike at 1cps over 3 stacks of pistol shot

cinder relic
gaunt phoenix
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which is fairly engaging i think

cinder relic
#

High APM doesn't equal fun to me

final pagoda
#

then why not rerolling DK unholy? 🙁

eternal hound
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Because UDK is boring as sin

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you press army then afk for a minute

gaunt phoenix
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Dks are S tier fantasy factor but they are fuck all for gameplay

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Imo

frail veldt
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they do be flashy af

eternal hound
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I like frost

cinder relic
#

Like idk

eternal hound
#

This too

cinder relic
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I like stealth

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I like poisons

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I like the cosmetics that are rogue exclusive

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I like combo points

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I like energy

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I like the fantasy

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Outlaws fun to me isn't tied 1-1 to how high the APM is

serene urchin
#

based

frail veldt
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tied to not having crackshot

cinder relic
#

Outlaw being high APM isnt an indicating factor for whether its fun

final pagoda
#

fair enough

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for me fast = fun

cinder relic
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Outlaw is still one of the fastets specs in the game!

final pagoda
#

ill probably play another season like every time

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can't escape

gaunt phoenix
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Tww outlaw was an extreme outlier

frail veldt
#

like on simulationcraft?

gaunt phoenix
#

Infinite AR and buffs

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Vanish every 17 seconds

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Compared to outlaw's 8 years of history

final pagoda
frail veldt
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curious what the other spec apms are

gaunt phoenix
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can pretty much assume most specs are not 67-69

frail veldt
#

Yeah I just have no idea what other specs are at with haste

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like casters

final pagoda
#

I saw a demo playing high keys and I swear to god that looked 30 apm

frail veldt
#

demo is hilariously dumbed down

cinder relic
#

castersa re generally gonna be lower APm right

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cuz they have cast times

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But yeah

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I mean high APM will probs be something like fury, havoc, outlaw

frail veldt
gaunt phoenix
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Fire is probably up there

frail veldt
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a lot of melee specs were ~60apm in tww

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so I think we might be closer to just average now

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since many melee specs are gcd locked

final pagoda
#

yep that's what it sounds

cinder relic
#

Ret has been GCD locked for years but is isnt a fast spec

frail veldt
#

well ret was 63 apm in tww

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so thats similar to us now

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if they didnt lose much apm

serene urchin
#

how different does trickster play now

frail veldt
#

it has a different finisher condition

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it just finishes at 6+

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fatebound adds a rule to dispatch at 5+

serene urchin
#

Ahh i see alright

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it seems killing spree got changed lol is it cool now

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only reason im thinkin about trickster is barrage of gunfire sound very cool

cinder relic
#

I like it as a spell, but if you look at details you might be disappointed

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Mainly cuz KS as a spell doesn't do a lot of damage

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But it does activate a lot of passives on the tree

serene urchin
#

ok but does it look cool doe

cinder relic
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I think so

serene urchin
#

alright perfect ill give it a try

gaunt phoenix
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these are the only profiles so far

image.png
#

outlaw with prep is closer to 70, i forgor

granite merlin
hasty warren
#

sp have this much apm ?

serene urchin
frail veldt
#

oh wow sp is pretty high too thats interesting

granite merlin
#

I’m suprised frost dk isn’t on there lol

hasty warren
#

out burst fdk is kinda slow tbh

gaunt phoenix
#

it's just whoever submitted a profile at the moment

frail veldt
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its 2-3 seconds of no actions

serene urchin
hasty warren
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ks is so a bad design for ol

serene urchin
#

but "barrage of gunfire" doe

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muh pirate fantasy...

hasty warren
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like hell why i'd want to channel something

frail veldt
#

I like how KS looks

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I think the funnel issue is my biggest problem with it

hasty warren
serene urchin
#

wym by that like wasting resources?

hasty warren
#

the damage Profil is just shit

frail veldt
#

they designed it to not just hit the unit you have targeted

serene urchin
#

Ahh i see

hasty warren
#

random target in 1m radius semi circle

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meanwhile survival with boomstick

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aoe no cap

frail veldt
#

8 yard p sure

hasty warren
#

fells less ngl

serene urchin
#

yeah its 8yrds

hasty warren
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sometimes it's hard to hit mobs for no reason

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or i'm just delusional cause i hate this spell

frail veldt
#

oh wtf if grapple fails you dont get the 2nd one for fatebound

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forgot about that

hasty warren
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it's a feature

serene urchin
frail veldt
#

I dont think they changed it

hasty warren
#

since SL iicr

serene urchin
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yeah jesus man i thought for sure it would be gone by now

frail veldt
#

they went through a few

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they cant figure out balancing between dces and it failing

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they chose to let it fail

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instead of dc

hasty warren
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I remember they fixed it during s2 sl

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and next patch it bug again

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fun fact, survival grapple have same bug

hasty warren
frail veldt
#

yeah

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thats probably just a coding challenge they dont want to spend time on

hasty warren
#

it's just cringe losing it

hasty warren
serene urchin
#

how does trickster play in AoE

frail veldt
#

the same as fatebound

serene urchin
#

do u need to swap target

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to apply fazed or smth

frail veldt
#

nah

hasty warren
#

no

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bf spread it

serene urchin
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oh alright

frail veldt
#

bf only spreads it through ks which is weird

hasty warren
#

with ks

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can be cool if br spread it too

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anyway trikster looks not good to play rn

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btw is fb macro abuse gone ?

gaunt phoenix
#

yes

serene urchin
#

whats the dps loss on not taking preparation

hasty warren
#

that was so shit to play last season

serene urchin
#

seems kinda odd to use

keen belfry
gaunt phoenix
#

at least 2% in a vacuum

image.png
serene urchin
cinder relic
#

2% in a contextless void

gaunt phoenix
#

but prep can be better than sims because it is a forced reset of AR

cinder relic
#

But raids have context where you can use it to get your cooldowns back up for specific parts of a fight

keen belfry
#

yar i think prep is good

cinder relic
#

In a 4 minute fight, u can use it anywhere, technically

keen belfry
#

do i like prep? no

#

but on demand dmg as a spec with no ocntrol of ur dmg is useful

cinder relic
#

I'd prefer if prep would be just "+1 charge" to those listed spells

serene urchin
#

u kinda just wanna dump the CDs of whatever it resets before hitting it? is that it?

cinder relic
#

even if that'd be stronger

frail veldt
keen belfry
#

agree

#

its still fart

frail veldt
#

missed opportunity tbh

cinder relic
#

but I am a sucker for old skills returning

#

and prep is kind of iconic

frail veldt
#

yeah def for sub

unborn verge
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
hasty warren
#

is prep affect by rb ?

frail veldt
#

no

hasty warren
#

sad

frail veldt
#

its a good thing

#

tbh

gaunt phoenix
#

prep would become a 20% dps increase

frail veldt
#

and would lose a lot of flexibility of usage

hasty warren
#

ye but if its cd is like 6-7 min like kir

#

it's like a 4min cd no ?

cinder relic
#

It'd be a very different spell off RB

#

With a very different implication on the rotation

eternal socket
#

!fuu

ornate heathBOT
hasty warren
#

but it as benefit from the new talent for rb spells out of casting

hasty warren
frail veldt
#

whatever you want

#

if a fight is <4mins

#

you can use it anywhere in those 4 minutes

gaunt phoenix
#

prep was added cause of feedback where outlaw had literally 0 agency over its damage

cinder relic
#

If it was on RB, You would just press it on CD more or less, there wouldnt be any nuance here

frail veldt
#

^

cinder relic
#

It being off RB means that you can personally make a value judgement WHEN you watn it

#

Now, a lot of the time that'll also be on CD

#

But you can if you want

#

And sometimes you will want to

gaunt phoenix
#

agency, if you will

hasty warren
#

ok i see

gaunt phoenix
#

is prep the best way to help fix this, no i dont think so

serene urchin
hasty warren
#

it's like a "normal" cd for outlaw

gaunt phoenix
#

rotation wise, no

#

but in raid you will use it based on the encounter

frail veldt
serene urchin
#

Mmmm ok seems chill then

frail veldt
#

in combination with KiR

gaunt phoenix
#

you like make a value call between getting 2 normal prep casts or 1 prep cast during priority adds or some such

#

That doesnt change the rule of prep

fossil lintel
#

please tell me they'll remove the bar part of slayer's rise when it goes to m+

#

it will suck to do this an entire season

gaunt phoenix
rotund zodiac
#

!wa

ornate heathBOT
keen belfry
gaunt phoenix
#

is an AI generated logo a requirement to upload to curseforge?

keen belfry
#

i think so

#

wanna know what addon doesnt have ai logo

gaunt phoenix
#

wang !

lime lake
#

Believe it or not, jail if you don't have one

keen belfry
#

u can even see the first drawing i mad ein paint and didnt even delete it

639050688513124865.png
lime lake
#

Awang has been evading the feds but it won't last forever

keen belfry
#

thats the W of the first WANG i was drying

#

drawing

ashen void
#

AI? Heh. Say, **AI **got an idea. How bout you get lost, Samuel Altman.

keen belfry
#

now that, that was Epicness.

#

Pwned!!

hasty warren
keen belfry
hasty warren
#

told a friend to do it

#

friend labor is better than ai

lime lake
#

I'll draw logos for free for anyone who wants them

hasty warren
#

need one

lime lake
#

Absolutely

#

They'll be terrible

#

But ill do it

hasty warren
#

perfect

#

then can u do a logo for an addon i'm making for a war friend that take aggro on pulls if he dps too early ?

#

it's named UncarpetingWar

lime lake
hasty warren
#

it's just a 4 sec timer that start whenever it enter combat

lime lake
#

lmao

hasty warren
#

but it works

#

most the time

keen belfry
#

just hit the dummy for 4 mintues and didnt reach 0 tea charges

#

nbd

gaunt phoenix
#

its sleight

#

trust

keen belfry
#

sleight is peak

#

had back to back jackpots

gaunt phoenix
#

every jackpot is sleighted

fossil lintel
#

I seem to only run out of tea if I try to hold AR in m+

keen belfry
#

u need to try and keep bf up in low target cleave

fossil lintel
#

Well, not m+, heroic dungeons

keen belfry
#

thats the real test

fossil lintel
#

Oh yeah that as well

keen belfry
#

low target cleave + deft =gg

fossil lintel
#

I guess for raid where we may have 2-3 target cleave we just drop deft

keen belfry
#

yeah deft wont be seen in raid no wayu

fossil lintel
#

Honestly the change to deft was so sad

keen belfry
#

its malpractice

fossil lintel
#

It was such a hit to press it and get 5cp for no energy

hasty warren
keen belfry
#

im geuine in m+ boss fights where u randomly press bf or have duo boss it literally destroys your energy

fossil lintel
#

Deft increases bf energy cost to 45

keen belfry
#

like floodgate duo boss with 35% haste was cooked

hasty warren
#

cringe

fossil lintel
#

They should honestly make it scale per cp generated

#

With a cap at 45

keen belfry
#

somethjing like that cause it really isnt TERRIBLE in full aoe packs

#

but u really really get fucked as pulls are ending and/or low target cleave

fossil lintel
#

I guess the only problem is that you would only know the energy cost after casting it

hasty warren
#

I'm not a big fan of low duration bf

#

can be cool if ar extent it

fossil lintel
#

What was it before the uhuh era? Was it already 12 sec on DF S1?

cinder relic
#

I think that talent would onlye ver be useful on low target cleave, and even then who knows

cinder relic
#

Dancing steel would give it +3 seconds in like, SL

hasty warren
cinder relic
#

and that was it

hasty warren
#

it's a bit weird comming back to have to refresh bf after 2 season with uhuh

fossil lintel
#

Was it base 12?

cinder relic
#

Yes

fossil lintel
#

Or 12 with talents?

keen belfry
#

having to refresh BF is peak fart gameplay

cinder relic
#

12 baseline

#

15 with dancing steel

keen belfry
#

everytime i refresh BF a fart comes out of me

fossil lintel
#

Blade flurry went through 51 versions

hasty warren
keen belfry
fossil lintel
#

It's not physic link level but them that's a lot

keen belfry
#

nor smell

hasty warren
#

wang fart

#

new addon

keen belfry
#

like imagine if they simply just removed subterfuge and then added a passive of AR/BF/RTB dont tick down when stealthed

hasty warren
#

when bf pressed makes fart sound

quaint mauve
#

my friend who started a couple weeks ago is 1v9 in his silver games bro @keen belfry

Screenshot_2026-03-01_210725.png
keen belfry
#

the user is forced to import their own fart sound, home grown

keen belfry
#

i havent lost a league game since wow came oujt

quaint mauve
#

he actually has mechanics on samira

#

its crazy

#

bro 20 more hours

#

then my grind begins

hasty warren
keen belfry
#

this is since wow came out

image.png
quaint mauve
#

first strike HOLY

keen belfry
#

is good

#

more dmg than conq

quaint mauve
keen belfry
#

its better vs squishy

tiny onyx
#

how are we feeling about outlaw so far in EA?

eternal hound
#

So question about roll the bones

fossil lintel
#

Anyone know if there's still delve keys / bountiful delves this xpack?

eternal hound
#

How...do you tell what stage you're at?

hasty warren
#

conq is better when u can't os no ?

eternal hound
keen belfry
#

its genuinely more dmg in like, every scenario after 6 basically

eternal hound
#

Keys won't drop till the 17th I think

keen belfry
#

!rtb

#

!icons

fossil lintel
gaunt phoenix
#

roll the bones is 4 different buffs

keen belfry
#

ty solo

eternal hound
#

Ohhh

#

that makes so much more sense thanks

gaunt phoenix
#

stage 1 (one die), stage 2 (two dice)... you get it

keen belfry
hasty warren
fossil lintel
#

Stage 4 is one die again

eternal hound
#

And when do we reroll with it?

#

Special glowy die

hasty warren
fossil lintel
#

Reroll stage 1

gaunt phoenix
#

you reroll if you are at stage 1, you want to keep stage 2 or higher until it runs out

eternal hound
#

Chief I'm not reading the name in combat keks

#

Okay

keen belfry
eternal hound
#

Makes sense. dracthyr_nod

hasty warren
keen belfry
fossil lintel
#

Popping kir on a stage 2 feels so bad but you can feel the mistake every time you don't do it

keen belfry
#

with sleight

fossil lintel
#

Oh? Is that a thing?

keen belfry
#

once solo is refreshed i am curious about that rule change

hasty warren
#

kit at 3 or 4 no ?

keen belfry
#

its a thing thats been in my head since the wang build came out

fossil lintel
#

No, kir at 2 or higher

hasty warren
#

3rd buff is so good

fossil lintel
#

I hear you, but every time I don't pop at 2 I get guaranteed stage 1 on the next roll

keen belfry
#

i also think prep adds a lot of rtb/kir flexibility thats super good

keen belfry
fossil lintel
#

Yes

keen belfry
#

preppy?

fossil lintel
#

No prep

untold wadi
keen belfry
#

become prep gamer

fossil lintel
#

We don't run that on dungeons do we?

keen belfry
#

i think we will

hasty warren
#

we do

fossil lintel
#

What do I drop for prep? Second point on the dispatch node?

hasty warren
#

what else to take anyway

eternal hound
#

...does rolling stage one endlessly just mean gg

hasty warren
#

all other talents stinks

keen belfry
fossil lintel
#

I'll give it a try

keen belfry
#

i think this will be the build i hope is within 1% of build

image.png
fossil lintel
#

How are you using it in dungeons?

#

Just on cd?

keen belfry
#

just on cd basically

#

obvi with bte and AR on cd too

fossil lintel
#

Oh I can save it instead of saving AR if i'm close to a boss

keen belfry
#

and with prep u basically have back to back loaded dice

#

so u can just not kir

fossil lintel
#

Yeah

hasty warren
#

hope bliz will see non one is running 2 points on ace and make it better

fossil lintel
#

Wait, does prep reset kir?

keen belfry
#

no

#

sitting on KIR is not as bad as in tww

gaunt phoenix
#

KIR at 3 is already "good" but your variance goes out the wazoo

keen belfry
#

yeah the kir at 3 rule means u legit can hold for so so long

hasty warren
#

it dep the context too

fossil lintel
#

Yeah, that's my feeling, every time I skip kir at 2 when I won't have ld on next roll I get insta back to back stage 1

keen belfry
#

on beta before the kir at 2 rule i found myself literally sitting on KIR for 2-3 minutes

hasty warren
#

btw is there still the 1min max duration for rtb ?

fossil lintel
#

It's the game telling me "should've listened to solo"

keen belfry
cinder relic
#

I feel this set bonus does a million damage

image.png
gaunt phoenix
fossil lintel
#

Oh guy

gaunt phoenix
fossil lintel
#

Since you're here

hasty warren
#

wdym by pandemic ?

gaunt phoenix
#

!pandemic

ornate heathBOT
#

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

fossil lintel
#

I think the stat section on wowhead is outdated, unless diminishing returns start at 300ish secondaries

cinder relic
#

where?

gaunt phoenix
#

when u garrote and the new garrote is longer duration

hasty warren
#

ok i see

fossil lintel
#

Stat section for outlaw, where it lists the threshold for diminishing returns

keen belfry
#

like marvin this is the worst it gets i never had 1 buff more than like 3 finishers

image.png
cinder relic
#

Whast wrong with it?

fossil lintel
#

Does diminishing return starts at 365?

cinder relic
#

No idea how the dr shit works tbqh

#

thats just a template part of the guide that every stat page has

fossil lintel
#

It's usually scaled, those numbers seem to be pre patch numbers

cinder relic
#

I can't modify it

fossil lintel
#

Oh

cinder relic
#

but if its wrong its probably wrong

#

and I can let em know

fossil lintel
#

Solo do you know when diminishing returns kick in for level 90?

#

It's probably in simc somewhere

thin fiber
#

🤨 who's here because of chatgpt's recc?

image.png
gaunt phoenix
#

whatever 30% from rating is

fathom bramble
#

1300ish

#

depends on the stat

hasty warren
#

pvp lover ?

fathom bramble
#

and my usual source(mage important info channel) seems to not have rating per %

#

going to make me figure it out myself

cinder relic
#

Outlaw was very good in pvp for awhile

hasty warren
cinder relic
#

Like, for the entiery it had float like a butterfly

fathom bramble
#

it was absolute dog for the first 2 expacs it was a spec, but has been on and off best since then

serene urchin
#

yeah

fathom bramble
#

like in recent history it has been quite good quite often

hasty warren
#

remember df pvp was not this great for ol

serene urchin
#

now probably not so much

cinder relic
#

It was like omega broken in pvp for awhile lol

fathom bramble
#

though since we have lost float

serene urchin
#

we were just like impossible to kill

cinder relic
#

Rogue pvp toolkit + infinite feint + evasion

fathom bramble
#

and vanishes

#

I seriously doubt it will be any good

#

tuning can trump literally any weakness though so maybe

hasty warren
serene urchin
#

whens the final patch dropping

hasty warren
#

was so fun to play

hasty warren
serene urchin
#

yeah like midnight live patch

#

it drops when it comes out?

hasty warren
#

tonight maybe

serene urchin
#

still hoping maybe some other outlaw build becomes viable

keen belfry
#

like what cuh

#

there sadly isnt much left in the tree

serene urchin
#

like ks...

#

i guess idk man

keen belfry
#

ks is fried

#

especially as fatebound

inland heart
#

is there a way with the new cooldown manager to add sound to when your buffs are about to expire , fe. rtb buff and blade flurry

keen belfry
#

and trust me king u want to play fatebound rn

tropic dove
#

When I press ks in heroics it makes me cry.

serene urchin
keen belfry
#

fatebound has better energy and target prio and combo point generation

hasty warren
#

you can play ho if u want

serene urchin
#

ho seems dead man

hasty warren
#

y

serene urchin
#

idk seems like they took alot of the procs out of ambush n stuff no

hasty warren
#

never said it was good

keen belfry
#

ho is dead atm

#

no stealth windows!

hasty warren
#

do we still have gsw in the tree ?

cinder relic
#

Nop

keen belfry
#

i think they either forgot about HO existing or they are purposefully leaving it shit until season 2

gaunt phoenix
#

literally audacity could make ambush cheaper and it prolly would be good again

hasty warren
#

sad it was fun to create bad builds around gsw

serene urchin
fathom bramble
#

it wouldn't be super unreasonable to leave something undertuned simply because they didn't have the time/resources to rework it properly

keen belfry
#

yeah that is my guess or they just forgot it existed

#

either one is fine by me

hasty warren
#

btw it's not weird we still can take sub ? like we have 4 points in class tree that arr useless for us

fathom bramble
#

yes it is weird

hasty warren
#

idk if assa play sub

fathom bramble
#

that is part of the "undetuned untl we can fix it or forgotten" theory

hasty warren
#

ngl our talent tree looks like wip

keen belfry
#

mhm subterfuge still existing is just like

#

hmm?

fossil lintel
#

No way, just because 3 capstones are dead talents?

hasty warren
keen belfry
#

outlaw has HO, killing spree, and fast action in 3 capstone spots lmao

#

thats just a funny reality

fossil lintel
#

Maybe it's funny for realz?

hasty warren
#

and still no second charge on ar

#

prep don't count

fossil lintel
#

WW has 2 zenith charges and we don't have 2 ar

keen belfry
#

outlaw would genuinely be awesome (besides energy) if BF/BTE/AR/BR Charges

#

like actually very cool

fallen oar
#

Are Outlaw sims up to date? I'm just wondering because with sort of basic post-leveling gear my Outlaw single target sims are showing like 6k higher than Sin sims (similar ilvl weapons). I'm wondering if it's really that much stronger, or if there's something else going on. My secondary stats are not that significantly skewed one way or another.

fossil lintel
#

Just make prep add a second charge to all affected spells instead of resetting cd

fallen oar
#

(I'm asking because I'm deciding on spec for the new raid tier, my server status says Sin but I play all three periodically)

hasty warren
#

still don't understand ks nerfs

#

like the ability was too good for us

fossil lintel
#

!fuu

ornate heathBOT
keen belfry
#

tuning is still super irrelevant

fallen oar
#

True, I imagine we'll know much more once we have better gear and tier sets.

fossil lintel
#

Oh damn fuu haven't bothered with other specs this season?

hasty warren
#

and gearing is bad atm

tropic dove
#

When we using shiv? On CD?

hasty warren
#

never

fossil lintel
hasty warren
#

when enraged mob

fossil lintel
#

Bro is on the wrong channel

tropic dove
#

Sounds like another player's responsibility...gonna reclaim that point.

#

pirate life...i dont use shiv.

fossil lintel
#

Oh yeah I have that on move speed while stealthed

hasty warren
#

don't talent it if u don't need to remove enrage

fallen oar
#

No spec uses shiv atm, except Sin with Deathstalker and honestly... Just don't go Deathstalker and take Shiv off your bar lol

fossil lintel
#

I hate we can't take the second speed talent in the outlaw tree, I feel so slow

tropic dove
#

yeah, i swapped it to speed. Person on wowhead needs to join me hearty crew.

hasty warren
fallen oar
#

Nope. It's out of the rotation entirely

#

The only situation you'd use it in is with deathstalker you get Darkest Night and you want to cast envenom with max combo points

#

And you'd cast shiv because it's a cheap way to get 1 point

#

But tbh, for me, that is the reason why I don't go Deathstalker under any circumstances because it is so bad to play

hasty warren
#

looks bad y

gaunt phoenix
#

in theory outlaw should outdamage sin unless a fight favors its 1-2min burst timers

cinder relic
#

or execute

fossil lintel
#

Also wtf is up with bear tanks ST? I had a bear top a st boss today

cinder relic
#

they are op

hasty warren
#

overtuned

keen belfry
#

they were doing relatively high beta keys as 4 tanks 1 healer

#

and timing comfortably

hasty warren
#

surely get nerf next patch

fossil lintel
#

Do you even need the healer when you have 4 tanks?

#

Just grab another tank

lime lake
keen belfry
#

ermmm i dontremember but i think it was a 4 tnaks 1 healer

lime lake
keen belfry
#

did anyone here grow up watching cod edits

hasty warren
#

that's so out the blue

keen belfry
#

im on my old youtube of old cod edits

hasty warren
#

i did watch some during middle school

gaunt phoenix
#

i grew up on like pokemon, minecraft, skyrim

fossil lintel
#

YouTube didn't exist when I was growing up so no

gaunt phoenix
#

oldge

hasty warren
#

dino

fossil lintel
#

Unless you consider lateral growth

keen belfry
gaunt phoenix
#

i wish i was like 10 years older so i grew up on oblivion and wow vanilla/bc

keen belfry
#

am i older than solo

hasty warren
#

dino

keen belfry
#

i played bc before id go to like 4th grade school

fathom bramble
#

how old is solo

gaunt phoenix
#

27

hasty warren
#

1998 so

keen belfry
#

i got 2 years on solo and those years are big for missing bc oblivion

hasty warren
#

or 97

fathom bramble
gaunt phoenix
#

i would have spent every waking moment playing bc

fathom bramble
#

and I definitely grew up on wow

keen belfry
#

like i have vivid memories of waking up an hour early on school days in elementary and just leveling a tauren with my twin brother

fossil lintel
#

Damn, I feel old

keen belfry
hasty warren
gaunt phoenix
#

yeah I mean I was like 9-10 when wrath released

i could have played it but wasnt allowed

fathom bramble
#

I started playing late BC

#

so like 8-9 I guess

gaunt phoenix
#

nice

keen belfry
#

but then i got my account perma banned in wotlk cause i paid for a power leveling cause my young dumbass literally thought it wasnt possible to level up

fossil lintel
#

I started playing 1 month before BC released

fathom bramble
#

doing chores for monthly gametime was peak

#

that's all my allowance gone

fossil lintel
#

Was level 52 when it did release

keen belfry
#

my first character was a paladin named vctrascrt

#

absolute gooner

#

(victoria secret the bra company)

hasty warren
#

kek

#

i start playing at cata after seeing mister T advise

#

and chuck Norris

gaunt phoenix
#

where does time go

I was 18 when I joined this server

fossil lintel
#

Says you joined this server in 2025

fathom bramble
#

apparently I've been here for 10 years

river wing
fathom bramble
#

unlucky

keen belfry
#

i levlled a little bit in bc, got hacked and came back with a lvl 80 dk in wotlk and played some end game wotlk, then banned

i was such a noob i thought armor was the only stat that mattered and i was a dps

gaunt phoenix
#

i've deleted a few accounts in my days

keen belfry
#

solo having life flashes rn

#

peak

fossil lintel
#

Out of embarrassment?

#

Or did you account got taken over after looking at some paladin renders?

tropic dove
#

idk why but i feel like trickster plays better than FB....or at least ive been getting higher damage from it.

gaunt phoenix
fossil lintel
#

Trickster does have the advantage of being able to attack nonstop when tanks are running for 30 seconds while pulling

hasty warren
#

infinite triks my beloved

river wing
#

idk with 24 sec Blind, having Blackjack should be super good over tricks, no?

#

like it's a legit 6 sec DR buff, in essence, on a 24s CD

hasty warren
river wing
#

the way I see it, lots of classes lost their CC
while we got ours buffed

fossil lintel
#

The few times I pulled aggro I just vanished, so maybe we could go trickless

river wing
#

also just making a pack do 30% less damage for 6 seconds is deceptively huge

#

(well, on a 24/22 second CD, that is)

#

and since diminishing now doesn't cockblock hard CC from being used as a bad interrupt, you can pretty much spam Blind (with some caution, maybe)

tropic dove
#

might be good in M+ but right now tanks are super tonk...

quaint mauve
hasty warren
#

idk i still love pop triks at start and dps the pack before other dps

fossil lintel
#

Yeah

hasty warren
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but it's less rewarding without cto

fossil lintel
#

Also it has saved me a lot before on fights with adds that come down spread

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Just tricks mid fight when the adds come down and send them to your tank

hasty warren
#

arakara

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the spider than pop adds

fossil lintel
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What was that cata underwater dungeon? Last boss it was clutch

hasty warren
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get insta os if u do aoe at the same time

hasty warren
fossil lintel
#

Yeah, like an underwater tunnel

hasty warren
#

can't remember name

fossil lintel
#

I forgot the name

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Throne of something?

hasty warren
#

tide

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the last boss with black shit to clean

fossil lintel
#

Exactly

hasty warren
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with water spray

fossil lintel
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With bad tanks tricks was a life saver there

hasty warren
#

throne of tide

fossil lintel
#

@cinder relic

Screenshot_20260302_042524_Firefox.jpg
balmy topaz
#

By the way this delve is up for EU now (NA tomorrow) very good for farming gear, stealth through click cages and just kill mini bosses and end boss. credit goes to @fathom bramble

image.png
river wing
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thanks
now to get off work in seven hours...

gaunt phoenix
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Preseason gearHOLY

balmy topaz
lime lake
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imma do it to level my rogue

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ez

balmy topaz
#

Wait maybe it was up today for NA ?

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I have no clue

fathom bramble
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We have totem something

balmy topaz
tropic dove
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I did like 15 totem story variant to get gear before i realized it wasnt the correct story

balmy topaz
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Liek was it any good lok

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stat wise

fathom bramble
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It all has haste

balmy topaz
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Bet

fossil lintel
fathom bramble
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Speed running that delve is also just fun imo

fossil lintel
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M0s will make this gear irrelevant

fathom bramble
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If you are a delve hater definitely do not do it though

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It hardly matters