#outlaw

1 messages · Page 637 of 1

vivid vessel
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weak aura is too good of an addon

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to not use

hasty warren
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I will not be surprised if bliz take of all restrictions

gaunt phoenix
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ill play around with it

hasty warren
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it's legit pointless

vivid vessel
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like

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cooldowns are mostly in an ok state

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you can just create cds buttons

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have them greyed out when not available

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etc

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its mostly fine

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cant do auras tho

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and then idk ressources are also fine

hasty warren
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ye but all the "anti competitive in raid" aspect is not working

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like we can track boss abilities through cd durations

vivid vessel
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ok but you cant do assignments weak aruas

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which was the most important part

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but ye

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didnt need to kill everything

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for just that

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cause it is essentially the only thing that changed

hasty warren
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only specualtion here

vivid vessel
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not really

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only abuses

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but abuses get fixed

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but you cant do addon communication

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other than with exploits, which will get fixed if there is still any

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and you cant read any auras so

potent ore
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any rep worth farming?

keen belfry
vivid vessel
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i mean

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will a weak aura be fine

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i wont make any addon

keen belfry
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what is meek auaras

vivid vessel
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its pointless

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weak aura

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with stuffs updated

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like cooldowns work with secrets

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etc

keen belfry
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will blizzar dmurder me?

vivid vessel
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no

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its all legal

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there is no workarounds

keen belfry
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do they support wangbar?

vivid vessel
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brother

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they support zac cp weak aura

keen belfry
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not cool

vivid vessel
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ye

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sorry bud

keen belfry
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ghg

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my fame is gone

vivid vessel
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i mean

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i doubt most people will use that

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its not even on curseforge

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that eliminate 95% of wow population already

unkempt dew
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Is it possible to let the game make a sound when I’m at max combo points?

vivid vessel
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yes

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:D

unkempt dew
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Oh shit really?

vivid vessel
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ye thats something you can do

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idk if any addons is doing it rn tho

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but its doable indeed

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would be so easy with a weak aura am i right

unkempt dew
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I need to look into this

next wedge
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im realizing how reliant i was on my bf and rtb weakauras

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i am dropping buffs all the time now

proven ocean
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what does ur boyfriend have to do with rtb weakauras

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ah bladeflurry mb

next wedge
vivid vessel
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bro

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i legit get wow midnight ads

gaunt phoenix
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:3

vivid vessel
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on cd

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on tiwtch

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i already have the game

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i play the game

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leave me alone

proven ocean
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ok zac]

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i'll tell them rn

vivid vessel
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thanks

proven ocean
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np

next wedge
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so did WA have to go or did the creator just kinda babyrage

vivid vessel
mighty pivot
vivid vessel
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its like

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the addon itself

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there is a lot

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a lot a lot

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of things

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that wont work anymore

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then the rest need a total rework code wise to work but barely

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so idk

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i think its a valid decision to decide to not continue

next wedge
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yeah that makes sense

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they do this largely for free

vivid vessel
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considering the amount of work that is needed to just update the addon to a state that is barely half of whta it was before

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for examples conditions are mostly gone right

mighty pivot
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it's not even half

vivid vessel
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conditions cant really work with secrets

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thats a big part of the addon

next wedge
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i saw private auras are back

mighty pivot
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the majority of the addon's functionality was killed in murder row

vivid vessel
next wedge
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so great

vivid vessel
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it kinda depends how you used the addon tbf

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like im gonna tell you

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appart from aura tracking

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my live ui

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i can replicate on midnight rn

next wedge
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i miss the better character sheet already

vivid vessel
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with that weak aura update

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mostly everything

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and my tww ui was legit 90% weak auras

next wedge
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some of the blizz ui customization is actually very good

stoic wagon
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Hi, can someone tell me please why we don't use ambush?

vivid vessel
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!ambush

ornate heathBOT
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It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

vivid vessel
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@gaunt phoenix

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bro

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i swear

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!ambushkir

ornate heathBOT
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Builds without HO do not press ambush Ambush because it does not proc ps Fan the Hammer. ss Sinister Strike was also changed to proc cto Count the Odds so SS is always a better global.

stoic wagon
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thanks

vivid vessel
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this but cto is gone

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but ye

random stirrup
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if its one of the big ones that was a wa its an addon already

next wedge
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i havent looked at addons really once i hit max i'll figure all that out

waxen scarab
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which race is the strongest for outlaw?

next wedge
gaunt phoenix
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tauren/dwarf/mechagnome/panda

ionic citrus
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priceless in times like these

image.png
waxen scarab
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bruh

waxen scarab
gaunt phoenix
next wedge
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bruh im doing 30k dps

ionic citrus
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he meant the diferences between races?

tribal cosmos
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bro

fathom bramble
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panda right now uses primary food, but the secondary stat food is also more stat than any stat racial gives

tribal cosmos
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wtf is murder row

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why is there 200 casts per pack

fathom bramble
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so it will likely maintain a very high spot

tribal cosmos
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isnt this the antithesis of their most recent talks

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i legit saw 45 casts

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in one pack

vivid vessel
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which one is murder row i forgot

tribal cosmos
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the warlock one

gaunt phoenix
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the court of stars looking one

tribal cosmos
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with the fel imps castings 2000 times

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bro even the last boss

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spawns 20 fel imps

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like wtf

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" we wanna tone down casts "

gaunt phoenix
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how dire is it that you have to cancel the imps specifically?

tribal cosmos
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my entire team died in one cast

gaunt phoenix
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perhap more like we have to tone down important casts

tribal cosmos
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and i had to solo like entire dungeons

vivid vessel
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ah its not a s1 dungoen i think

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i didnt play it

tribal cosmos
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shit was fucked

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problem with the such heavy casts is m+

vivid vessel
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ye but

tribal cosmos
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the scaling on any castable spell is so insane

vivid vessel
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its not a m + dungeon

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so it doesnt matter yet

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its a s2 dungeon

tribal cosmos
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i aint ready for s2

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ptsd already gg

desert tendon
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S2 dungeons gonna be fixed

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In s3

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Dwdw

keen belfry
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i love the small power gains on xpac launch

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these quest mobs slowly dyingg faster

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nbd

fathom bramble
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there is something very uniquely funny about mmos where you can go from killing actual gods to almost dying to a pack of 3 boars

next wedge
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i was thinking about that fighting the ethereals

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i was like damn i could take on like 10 of you at once and now 2 wipes me

slender creek
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allo i want to play outlaw because i like flintlocks
but i wonder if blade flurry is good or bad as it is

fathom bramble
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blade flurry is current in an undertuned state

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hopefully if it leads to us having meaningful issues in keys or raid it gets adjusted, but idk if you can rely on that

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that being said if you enjoy outlaws design just play it

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it'll be good enough for most content even if a bit undertuned at the top end

tribal cosmos
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thats cause everytime they buffed outlaw they nerfed bf

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clown behavior ngl

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then they gave bf to like 20 other specs

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clown behavior

slender creek
fathom bramble
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gave BF to a ton of specs that didn't need it and then decided global bf was a problem and tuned everyones version of BF down(mostly)

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it's long arms all over again

fathom bramble
tribal cosmos
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long arms was legit the only thing that made outlaw special

fathom bramble
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catastrophic tuning issues in general almost never happen in modern wow too so hopefully it remains decent

tribal cosmos
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black arrow bm hunter

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imagine

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they dont tune based off their own data

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they tune off guide writer data

slender creek
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this is why warlocks have it so good
Kalamazi carrying that class on his shoulders

tribal cosmos
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math too hard !

fathom bramble
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there does seem to be some value in just claiming your spec is always terrible

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and/or not having functioning sims until the last minute

tribal cosmos
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that value is tied to the incompetency of class design at blizz

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also wtf is follower dungeons

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this dog shit game mode

wintry solar
fathom bramble
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yeah

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it's essentially only for specific metrics that you can see a wide tuning gap

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usually burst add damage

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or burst in general

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or split cleave

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I just hope that pattern holds going into midnight

tribal cosmos
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the problem is when raid buff classes also get over tuned

fathom bramble
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last season of TWW was kind of bad

tribal cosmos
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double whammy of a propblem

fathom bramble
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and the beta has me slightly concerned

tribal cosmos
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remove raid buffs

fathom bramble
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raid buffs are how blizz makes sure each class has a place in raid though

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and it does have some value for that purpose

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they should just be removed in M+ keystone dungeons

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or all players should simply be granted every raidbuff inside a keystone

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whichever

covert kestrel
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If Blizz removed raid buffs from m+ I would say good job Blizz and then get 8hours of sleep

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Don't tell me I won't!

teal nebula
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I take it we aren't back, yet? Been a while since I checked in.

fathom bramble
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nothing meaningful has changed since the significant beta nerf that was in response to a bugfix

gaunt phoenix
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just other specs getting nerfed

teal nebula
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"How do we balance a spec that's falling behind?"
"Should we buff them up to be viable again?"
"Of course not, you fool, we just nerf the other classes!"

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This is truly an Outlaw moment of all time.

cinder relic
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If the spec is undertuned it'll get buffed

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Idt it is though

vivid vessel
cinder relic
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That is how it's been for over 10 years so

vivid vessel
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ah

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mb then

mighty pivot
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except tww s3

vivid vessel
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i must have missed it

vivid vessel
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and s2

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hmge

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weird

cinder relic
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Outlaw got buffed a bunch in s1

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And then in s2 it got giga buff with bug fix

vivid vessel
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Well outlaw was still dogshit in keys in s1

cinder relic
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That's a different statement entirely

vivid vessel
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And in S2 it litteraly took forcing them to bug fix bf not working

cinder relic
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Did outlaw get buffed enough to be good in keys? No

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But it did get buffed a bunch

vivid vessel
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Before that it was legit the worse spec in the game without any buffs

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To then get gutted for S3 cause it was an accident

cinder relic
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Yeah outlaw got fucked in season 3

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I'd say season 3 was the exception though not the rule

hardy wigeon
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!ui

ornate heathBOT
fathom bramble
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I feel like we rarely see active M+ targeted tuning though

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like it's not just a S3 tww outlaw problem

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any spec that is bad in keys tends to stay that way for a long time

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not catostrophically bad, but just regular bad

cinder relic
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It's also the whole case of like, there's a difference between being worse than the literal best, and bad

tribal cosmos
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mfw

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arms warrior player rn

sullen walrus
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early access - trcikster or fatebound?

cinder relic
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Fb

lyric dune
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just logged in after an absence for 1.5years.. wtf happened to outlaw lol..

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we don't get multiple dices anymore ?

quaint mauve
gaunt phoenix
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The faq or wowhead talks about it

lyric dune
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is it a bit easier or better now?

craggy quiver
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Man outlaw feels ass atm hopefully gear will help it

lyric dune
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I'll take a look on it tomorrow, just switched off the pc

gaunt phoenix
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it's easier

keen belfry
craggy quiver
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I literally just start back up

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I stop playing after the tier

keen belfry
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overall its quite shit

craggy quiver
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This is not good lol but maybe I was to use to crackshot

keen belfry
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its good if you didnt likke outlaw before

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if that helps

craggy quiver
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I like all outlaw

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I just need to play it more

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It's probably gear

keen belfry
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its crazy bad with low haste yes

craggy quiver
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Maybe tier saves it

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Too

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I have no idea what our tier is

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Honestly

keen belfry
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like u dont have energy to sustain multiple minutes of combat at low haste levels

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it doesnt save us gyu it just makes you press blade rush on cd as u basically already do

craggy quiver
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It feels kinda dog outside of adr but I guess that's what the devs want

dawn dove
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Is there a talent build to use anywhere for levelling?

lyric dune
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subterfuge also gone right?

fathom bramble
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yes

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well sort of

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it's still in the tree, but is intentionally setup that we will never take it

lucid sparrow
fathom bramble
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in TWW low haste was mostly a problem only for AR and didn't make you run out of energy to this extent

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additionally because we had no good stats you could kind of just hard focus haste until the cap

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in midnight you are trying to get near the haste cap while also stacking crit so you might end up in a situation where your best gear available just results in having uncomfortably low haste

keen belfry
lucid sparrow
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6% haste goign into heroic dungeons

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im cooked

keen belfry
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thankfully content dont matter rn

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but u wont have fun at 6% haste

fathom bramble
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don't even have to enter a dungeon yet

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can just spam easyish delves and get higher gear than heroic dungeons anyway

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if you want to get gear rn at all

keen belfry
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delves are vibe

fathom bramble
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I was looking at my delve stats

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and I have done atal'aman more than any TWW delve

keen belfry
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have u levled any alts

fathom bramble
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no

keen belfry
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43 holy moly

hardy vault
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do I really NEED x% haste to spec outlaw

keen belfry
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no

hardy vault
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that's at least something

keen belfry
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but u want some

lucid sparrow
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for delves

fathom bramble
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I couldn't imagine doing it at like 5%

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but 10%+ is mostly okay for casual content that we have rn

lucid sparrow
fathom bramble
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and you never really 'need' stats to play anything if you think about it

keen belfry
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MHM

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nice lok

fathom bramble
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if you spam T7s

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but the easy one I was spamming has rotated out so it might be doomed

lucid sparrow
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t7?

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thought highest rn was like t4

fathom bramble
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I think you need to be 90 to go to T7 or something

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t8-11 is locked though

balmy topaz
cinder relic
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Apex does a lot

fathom bramble
balmy topaz
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Cus I couldn’t find a spammablr delve

fathom bramble
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it's unlikely that there is another delve as spammable as that one

balmy topaz
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Few days hopefully it’s back around

river wing
fathom bramble
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it does seem to be the most effective way to gain gear right now

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but gear right now almost doesn't matter

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so don't do it if you don't want to

fast cloak
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Dear god, first time running a dungeon since the changes and its AWFUL, What did they dooo RIP

fathom bramble
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unfortunately it was better yesterday than it is right now thanks to how good the ritual interrupted storyline of atal'aman is for rogues

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no idea when it will rotate back in, but it's like 5-6minute delves when you can do it

vivid vessel
river wing
fathom bramble
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yeah I went straight from myth 8/8s to 220 gear by hitting that delve for 4-5 hours or so

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even just doing it until you get a 224 wep is probably worth

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even if you hold off a bit while the good delve storyline isn't active

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also fun side benefit

image.png
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your valeera can be strong for when you want to do delve T8-11s later

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but again if anyone reading this is a delve hater please don't force yourself to do that

river wing
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you got curios maxed out too, I expect?

fathom bramble
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yeah

river wing
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neat

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should be worth I think, I like delves anyway

fast cloak
random stirrup
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hopefully its back soon

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tuesday would be great

river wing
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also yeah, energy feels like absolute trash once you drop below 20% haste
legit felt way worse at levels 88+
wonder if they'll fix this before next expac

cinder relic
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It feels a lot better with apex

river wing
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well I hope so, but honestly energy just needs changes, it's basically bereft of purpose for Outlaw (sometimes only exists as punishment for bad play, sometimes it's just there mocking you) and Sub, and Assa keeps going through cycles of "yeah we want you to pool" and "honestly you're just fucked on energy whatever you do, see ya next expac maybe"
Energy basically arrived at a point where you either don't notice it, or it's noticeable because it's bad

fading igloo
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Just try and not run out of energy, works for me
hope this helps

frank finch
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so whats todays delve exploit for fast alt leveling

honest lotus
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!up

ornate heathBOT
cinder relic
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Assassination is a spec designed from the ground up to be lower apm, the only way to force that is through low energy regen

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Sub rogue is designed from the ground up to be a spec that has boom and bust cycles, the only way to do this, is through energy surpluses and lack of energy elsewhere

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Outlaw is a spec designed to be gcd locked, more often than not, directly linked to good play

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Idt there's ever been a time where energy has been in a spot where it's "fucked and good luck until next tier"

dense bridge
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when do i want to use adrenaline rush, do i just use it on cd

keen belfry
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yeah at low combo points

hasty warren
torpid fiber
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saw on twitter that apparently blizzard fucked up tab target. does this mean the autokick macro is dead

glad plinth
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Sorry guys ive just come back to the game. Whats the go to spec for lvling atm ?

covert kestrel
glad plinth
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thanks

vapid sundial
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kill it ong

torpid fiber
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I agree but also if killing it means killing smart tab targeting its not worth it imo

vapid sundial
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i am a mouseover fiend

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so

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it doesnt really affect me

glass mortar
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mines been working no issue

odd rapids
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Question, outlaw has been feeling draining on energy over a fight. Fairly quickly, is this normal? Am I needing a level of haste for rege

gaunt phoenix
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you need to approach 25% haste for energy

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that is basically not possible rn

formal temple
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dumb ass question here... on Between the Eyes procs (when it resets itself) i assume i should be building back up combo points before clicking it, not spamming it like before, yeah?

gaunt phoenix
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yeah, have to build

odd rapids
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Thank you!

lucid sparrow
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can someone make an addon just for roll the bones audio for when it hits jackpot

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make it play this for the duration of jackpot

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ifykyk

hasty warren
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surely not

hasty warren
lucid sparrow
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ikrr

untold wadi
frank finch
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anyone elses prey fucked up and not working

hasty warren
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is it useful to suppr the folders indices and config in data ?

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saw it can help for general weigh and perf, but for me it only remove like 320Mo

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MB

odd rapids
grim spear
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!wa

ornate heathBOT
hasty warren
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if we cant to track it for an addon

zinc thunder
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Devious Stratagem and Deeper Stratagem damage increase stacks, right? so 7 combo points and 10% extra Finisher damage?

gaunt phoenix
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Yeah

tribal cosmos
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whats the fastest delve currently

lime lake
#

ur mum

celest cave
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Anyone know how to track your die

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for roll the bones

errant field
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base ui isnt bad for it

celest cave
errant field
celest cave
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Hmm is that a utility?

errant field
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It's in the cd manager. as a tracked buff

tiny onyx
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I thought someone said that there was one delve that's free for rogues where we just stealth and kill the mini-boss and boss

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does anyone know which delve that is?

quaint mauve
tiny onyx
keen belfry
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Sup

cinder relic
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diff story today so u cant do that

tiny onyx
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sheesh unfort

fossil lintel
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wait, which delve was that?

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so i know for future refernece

cinder relic
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atal'aman

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One of the stories is like

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Free dudes from cages, and then fight a wave of bosses then the boss

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the cages can be opened in stealth so

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makes it mega fast

fossil lintel
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oh i think i did that one yesterday yeah

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the cage doesn't even drop stealth

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it's ritual interrupted the story

main terrace
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someone get devlin some ritalin daddy needs an exact port of his rogue wa ASAP

teal river
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dumb question wheres a good place to find arcui profiles

junior coral
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wow so no WA? lol

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game is mad diff

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whats the command to see profiles for UI?

gaunt phoenix
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there are no imports hosted here... it's nontrivial as 1 addon does not cover everything like WA did

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would like to add some cdm imports at some point

junior coral
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damn so they made it even worse lol?

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or do yall like the change

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bc that sounds like alot of work =/ i was hoping to just kick back and enjoy leveling but my ui is all wacked out now lol

fathom bramble
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I'm not sure anyone likes the change

junior coral
#

zac doesnt have a profile to share? or list of addons he uses to do his ui. thats what i did before lol

fathom bramble
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it's a lot of collatoral damage to get rid of something(computational weakauras in a raid environment) that players generally wanted gone

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not worth in the end given what else blizz hit

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Zac didn't even do his ui until yesterday

junior coral
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lmao

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true

fathom bramble
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I don't think he has any exports for people

gaunt phoenix
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
junior coral
#

makes sense... thanks

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blizzard is always doing the most and the worst lol

true wren
#

didn't dice roll buffs used to show up on the personal resource bar from settings?

teal river
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damn was hoping to be lazy and not have to make a profile lol

rocky kiln
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
half cloak
#

do you need to the campaign on your alts?

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or can i just power level with delves and be good

tiny onyx
#

heroic ready

image.png
tiny onyx
honest raven
river wing
# cinder relic Assassination is a spec designed from the ground up to be lower apm, the only wa...

naw. design-wise, there's multiple ways to make it work without relying on energy, and I would argue that most of the time they'd be much more reliable if approached in that way. there's a reason basically every single caster is primarily using their own special resource rather than mana nowadays - because tuning that is much simpler than messing around with mana gain/spend rates (and Arcane can press a button to go back to full mana in 2 seconds, which is accessible more often than you can realistically spend all your mana anyway), and it feels much better than looking at "out of mana" messages.

you could just put Assa back on higher GCD (the same 1.5 as other classes, for instance, which already would cut their potential APM significantly) or give them actions that channel, a sort of melee caster. it would achieve a similar flow to pooling they keep trying to make work, but with less of a feeling of standing around watching autos go off.
Sub's cycles are based around CDs anyway, so it can all be controlled by how CD work and interact - in fact, if you removed energy from Sub and tuned BS/Evis/SecTech damage and SD damage boosts appropriately, you would get absolutely the same dynamic. right now there's few knobs to twist in that regard, but a hypothetical Sub could easily arrive at the same distribution as TWW Sub, for instance.
Outlaw, yes, the end goal is to arrive at being GCD locked permanently - but it's only one of the goals, with the rest generally being reacting to procs rapidly and keeping track of rapidly decreasing cooldowns, and at least one maintenance buff (this latter one is not a very interesting design point IMO, but IDK what it could be replaced with off-hand, it is an element of skill anyway). here energy does serves a design purpose (so I'm incorrect in my earlier statement), but only ever a punitive one, it's something to dodge and there's no positive interaction, unlike pretty much every other resource in the game.

lime lake
patent mirage
deep sequoia
#

i would like to purchase a tricks macro btethren

balmy topaz
#

!tricks

ornate heathBOT
balmy topaz
fossil lintel
#

How big is the tier set? It seems pretty underwhelming

jolly geyser
#

Got a champ track trinket in voidstorm after doing event. Was a quest,no clue if it was renown or me doing all quests in the zone.

random stirrup
jolly geyser
#

AightHmmOK

torpid fiber
still matrix
#

Are the odds for getting more than one roll on rtb worse now?

hardy thicket
#

You mean more than one level?

still matrix
#

Like are the odds for getting more than one roll, worse. I feel like I consistently only get 1

hardy thicket
#

Like RtB has fundamentally changed. You no longer roll more buffs. Just 1 roll that can hit 4 different levels. Chances of getting level 1 is higher than the rest it seems.

#

If thats what you mean

south crypt
#

quick question, do you ever worry about tea or do you just let it proc whenever hitting below 30 energy?

desert tendon
#

@proven ocean hope you doing good budd, stay safe

gloomy trench
#

so does outlaw suck or is it me?

gaunt phoenix
gaunt phoenix
gaunt phoenix
gloomy trench
#

kk thought so

#

just shitty ass gear and stuff atm

unique fulcrum
#

what to do when u hit lvl 90

daring yoke
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
warm bluff
still matrix
#

Does SOlo have a guide thats hosted off discord?

still matrix
#

16% haste feelssobadman

livid pewter
formal knot
#

!up

ornate heathBOT
still matrix
#

How do ytou even get 22%, flask? @livid pewter

#

I'm at 219, with most crit/haste 220 gear i guess

livid pewter
keen grove
#

What ilvl do we start to replace cloak/myth boots?

ancient laurel
#

!oh

ornate heathBOT
#

A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of cs Zero In, and also slightly more instantpoison Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.

It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use raidbots Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.

covert kestrel
gaunt phoenix
#

The faq has everything except specific gear

#

Which I am not updating until the season

#

It's early access preseason, don't worry too much

glass mortar
#

WW tuning is so funny

#

they shifted like 50% of the profile into FoF

#

now u just group everything up in front of u and channel it to death

keen dew
#

do you recommend playing outlaw for both raid and m+ content ? ou assa i better for that ? sub is really not the same stats i think

#

or*

glass mortar
#

no way of knowning what will be better rn

#

play what u enjoy

keen dew
#

sure but i will still have to choose over what i like if its like 15 % difference but will see i guess

glass mortar
#

we dont know what the difference is right now

keen dew
#

ok, i will try to learn all the spec then 🙂

glass mortar
#

to whoever that was in silvermoon that just ran by me and snapped grapple twice trying to dash out of the sanctum of light then stood still defeated for 10 seconds

#

i saw it

#

i know ur shame

lime lake
willow narwhal
tacit shuttle
soft musk
#

did they remove aoe blind?

leaden sonnet
#

Yesnt, they removed it from the tooltip of airborne irritant, but they didnt remove the effect

glass mortar
#

no they did not they just accidently removed the tooltip of it, the talent still gives it

#

blizzard is silly some times we just dont talk about it because its obviously intended

rich moon
rich moon
#

not having aoe cc is a nightmare on m+

#

and blind is already limited since many enemies are immune lol

lime lake
#

i like to think they wouldnt decide to make rogue the only class in the game without an aoe stop

#

surely

past falcon
#

surely

leaden sonnet
#

Hunter doesnt really have one either

#

Binding shot kind of but you know

vivid vessel
#

nah idk

#

no way they would do that right

#

we are pratically the only spec without a raid buff

#

and then we also have the worse utility

#

interesting

glass mortar
#

they already nerfed our utility with the vanish shit

#

crazy stuff

#

if we lose aoe blind it would be laughable

vivid vessel
#

i do wonder how that tuning works

#

like

glass mortar
#

its pretty good but absolutely needed

vivid vessel
#

ask anyone that does m+

#

rogue is the least desirable spec

#

always

#

litteraly anything else has more utility

#

or a raid buff

#

or both

#

and then you nerf that class even more ?

#

interesting

glass mortar
#

outlaw new playstyle vs higher difficulty prey mobs is abuse blind to wait out vial cd and prep to always have ar

#

our sustain is so gutter now

#

i miss vanish

#

just getting auto attacked to death by random world mobs

cinder relic
#

Imagine doing a prey mob, you have it down to 20%, you vanish and it resets

glass mortar
#

gotta do that anyway now to not die but at least it woulda healed me

#

i just want some sustain back or make feint not cost energy or something

#

i like the mechanic i just hope they focus on more actual boss mechanics for the higher tier prey guys

#

the ones that just auto to death dont feel very fun to face

#

the caster ones that u just interupt forever are great

fast cloak
#

Im still trying to figure out how they just keep making rogue worse each time they try to improve it lmao

cinder relic
#

Its a matter of perspective

#

But I mean if u haven't liked the last like, 5 versions of rogue like, GG lol

#

try a new class time

desert tendon
#

not liking outlaw since it's called outlaw garf

cinder relic
#

I disliked Late DF version of outlaw, I like this version a lot more idk

#

If u always think its worse every version then legit just roll atp lol

fast cloak
#

Objectively, they are the worst class to take anywhere now as they bring nothing but dps and are not even in top anything. Add in the fact that outlaw feels like sludge now where the only people who wanted to play it liked the high octane play style, and for what?

desert tendon
#

it is what it is dude

cinder relic
#

You have no idea what class balance is at rn for one

vivid vessel
#

ye bro outlaw is about to top charts

fast cloak
#

Blizzards history of improving outlaw says enough, no?

desert tendon
#

i agree that rogue is worst and worst and worst and will probably become even worst than the dogshit it currently is. Everything sucks. But as Guy says, if it's really unbearable just reroll and gg

tired rune
#

if we were near the top of the charts we'd be nerfed during heroic week so

desert tendon
#

TWW heroic week 1 nerfs

#

my beloved

cinder relic
#

Yeah ig everything is terrible just reroll DK or mage or smthing idk

fast cloak
#

Ive done rerolled already, im just low key hurt they managed to somehow make it worse AGAIN and to the point where its not even fun now 🙁

rocky canopy
#

outlaw is fun what

tacit shuttle
cinder relic
#

Well I hated the spec since the DF rework so I'm happy I get to have fun with the spec again

junior fractal
#

I'm loving outlaw, so much fun

fast cloak
#

Outlaw had its flaws always but it always manage to be fun

#

Now it feels like trying to outlaw with lead boots on

leaden sonnet
#

All classes

rocky canopy
#

imo this is outlaws best version since shadowlands no degenerate gameplay at all

vivid vessel
#

well there is no gameplay at all

#

so that isnt hard

cinder relic
#

And I need to reroll NOW

leaden sonnet
#

Yep

vivid vessel
#

well at least its been true for outlaw

#

for like

#

ye

fast cloak
rocky canopy
#

outlaw has historically been bad but people have always made it work

#

my goat loktark

fast cloak
#

When people try to argue an objective fact

cinder relic
#

Historically Outlaw has been "fine"

vivid vessel
#

and ask anyone they will tell you that rogue has the worse key utility

tacit shuttle
#

Objectively speaking rogue has the worst key utility.

vivid vessel
fast cloak
#

lmao

vivid vessel
#

good spot to be in

cinder relic
#

LOL

#

Idk how people live like this

#

Just reroll if you haet your class this much

junior fractal
#

ppl just want to be miserable

tacit shuttle
#

I love my class. Always gravitate back to outlaw specifically :)

vivid vessel
#

i mean you will defend outlaw and then not play it anyway

#

as every season

rocky canopy
#

i was kinda dooming until midnight came out and i started playing it, now rogue is actually fun and the only class i wanna play ngl

cinder relic
#

I know you link your self worth with playing Outlaw but theres more to the game than that

#

I play whats good on prog, then I play whats fun

#

Outlaw wasn't fun to me for over 2 years

#

What do u want me to do, play the spec, be miserable, and complain like you?

#

Misery loves company ig

tacit shuttle
#

Forever, who are you talking to?

cinder relic
#

zac

hasty warren
#

Hi pirates

rocky canopy
#

not me i griefed my raid by playing sub on fractilus garf_sit

vivid vessel
#

i mean all 3 specs were terrible on fractilus

#

you didnt grief anything

cinder relic
#

He gets very upset at the fact that I didn't play a version of the spec that I didn't like so he brings it up a lot

fast cloak
#

If you only played what's good on prog you'd enver play outlaw though? And then defend its objective shittiness while literally admitting its shit. Im confused

cinder relic
#

Outlaw has been good on prog

rocky canopy
#

outlaw was good on some fights last tier lol

vivid vessel
#

on 1

fast cloak
#

It had one

rocky canopy
#

wasnt there some fights tier before it too in uh undermine

vivid vessel
#

not reeally no

rocky canopy
#

or was that all sub sin

vivid vessel
#

it was still worse than sub or assa on every fight in undermine

tacit shuttle
#

I personally miss crackshot windows, but I'm still having fun. Once had BtE proc 9 times in a row this tier and I've been chasing that high since.

cinder relic
vivid vessel
#

or tune it

#

but

cinder relic
#

Give outlaw a burst CD, remove restless blades, etc

vivid vessel
#

i mean

rocky canopy
#

i feel like outlaw has potential right now lol

cinder relic
#

Until then its always gonna be a lot of "hope its tuned higher' while sin and sub have intrnsic value like execute and huge burst

fossil lintel
#

Outlaw is definitely better for prog now than the crackshot version, but would require insane tuning

vivid vessel
#

idk there is also the fact they gave outlaw things to sub and sin

rocky canopy
#

outlaws intrinstic value should be higher sustained cleave

fast cloak
#

Thats kind of what Im saying though, there have always been some simple enough fixes to keep it what it was while making it more in tune with other classes/specs and every season/expac they somehow do the opposite

vivid vessel
#

but they didnt do the same to outlaw

#

sub and sin now cleave

#

at least before if you had a cleave fight

cinder relic
vivid vessel
#

outlaw would have the upper hand

cinder relic
#

Its just a different spec atp

rocky canopy
#

yeah i dont mind them having cleave but outlaw should at least always have the best cleave among rogue specs

cinder relic
#

I dont want "Another burst rogue spec"

fossil lintel
#

Right, give us shadowdust

rocky canopy
#

same with sub having the ebst burst among rogue specs

vivid vessel
#

they gave sub and sin free cleave

cinder relic
#

I enjoy that outlaw is the no burst spec, but that comes with an opportunity cost

vivid vessel
#

but idk

#

could have given outlaw execute no ?

#

or funnel?

#

or being able to hold damage

#

(charges?)

#

or idk anything really

fossil lintel
rocky canopy
#

i mean i guess you could argue outlaw is basically a fury warrior without execute and burst

#

and less tanky

vivid vessel
#

and no raid buff

rocky canopy
#

true

fast cloak
#

No utility is just the worst

cinder relic
#

atrophic is a raid buff

fast cloak
#

No reason to take a rogue anywhere ever

rocky canopy
#

that doesnt work half the time

vivid vessel
#

in riad maybe

rocky canopy
#

lol

cinder relic
vivid vessel
#

still weakest prolly

cinder relic
#

It doesn't work on 1 boss, every other tier

vivid vessel
#

and in keys it isnt

rocky canopy
#

and that one boss matters usually

cinder relic
#

No

#

This just isn't true

rocky canopy
#

i mean it didnt work on stix and that was one of the first wall bosses

cinder relic
#

we don't need to lie to get our point across

#

Stix was a wall beacuse of mechanics not damage though

rocky canopy
#

its not like it didnt matter on a completely irrelevant boss

#

combined with the entire raid taking absolutely truckload of damage lol

#

where 3.6 less would have absolutely made a noticable impact

#

but instead because it only affects boss damage and not environmental shit rogue raid buff was fucking useless

#

we dont need to lie and actl ike its a good raid buff

#

just make it actually work all the time

cinder relic
#

U probably wouldnt have played a rogue on that fight on eearly prog anyway because its damage was not ideal for initial prog tuning

rocky canopy
#

like hunters complained about their raid buff and now they have arguably one of the most broken ones in the game

cinder relic
#

If dev aura is a "good raid buff" then atro is a good raid buff

#

Because on average atro is just better than dev aura

rocky canopy
#

by .6% when it actually works lol

honest sparrow
#

So any other boss then stix it was better then?

cinder relic
#

Yes

#

Lol

#

I mean either way, rogue could use more utility

#

I'm not going to argue against this fact

#

But there is a reason that like, almost every single raid wf kill plays a rogue

#

Atro musnt be that weak yk

rocky canopy
#

i mean rogue was also just good all of tww

vivid vessel
rocky canopy
#

and it works most of the time

vivid vessel
#

atro has stacked

#

for legit

#

3 expac straight

#

how come they never stacked rogue

#

a second rogue doesnt have less value

rocky canopy
#

second rogue was pretty good

vivid vessel
#

truth is they have a rogue player per guild really

rocky canopy
#

idk why rwf guilds dont play

vivid vessel
#

or 2

cinder relic
#

Its a bug that wasn't known, melee DPS is usually a tight spot and theres usually some actual extremely broken DPS specs

vivid vessel
#

but usually ythe second will just play something else

rocky canopy
#

like i swear a lot of times a second sub rogue would have been way better than your third fucking warlock

vivid vessel
cinder relic
#

Okay

vivid vessel
#

everyone knew

cinder relic
#

Ur right u win

vivid vessel
#

you are meant to tell me

#

i knew

#

most of this discord knew

cinder relic
#

Yep u win

vivid vessel
#

but not liquid and echo?

cinder relic
#

we've played double rogue a lot of tiers, it's felt very good

#

We usually play +1 rogue than the default as a guild lol

fossil lintel
#

So your guild has another 2 rogue players?

cinder relic
#

rn its me and shindig

#

we have ppl that have pocket rogues ready to go when its OP either way, but only 2 rogue mains atm

rocky canopy
#

my guild has like zero alt rogues lmao

#

no one has any interest in the class

junior fractal
#

do we know if atro stacks in the new raids?

cinder relic
#

They fixed atro stacking a bit ago

junior fractal
#

🙁

vivid vessel
#

they fixed it at the end of undermine i think

#

actually not even sure

leaden sonnet
#

Start of undermine

vivid vessel
#

no it worked in undermine

leaden sonnet
#

Or like week 2 or something

#

Really early

vivid vessel
#

ahwell maybe

#

the raid was quick

#

might have been toward the end for me

hasty warren
#

buff outlaw

cinder relic
#

true

gaunt phoenix
#

buff

silver venture
#

is reshi wraps better at lvl 90 than any cloak you can find so far?

cinder relic
#

probably

gaunt phoenix
#

Yes, it is better than veteran at least

#

rough idea

image.png
#

champion -> vet > advent

cinder relic
#

keep a cloak tho

#

odds are they disable it

gaunt phoenix
#

true

fossil lintel
silver venture
#

yeah i was surprised tier was disabled at 81 but cloak works even at 90 lmao

rich moon
#

or make it not proc over 80 when the launch is official

#

instead of disabling outright

lime lake
#

wtf shindig is stealing guys job

#

max told him he had to keep hopping guilds and being their best rogue in order to get into liquid so he figured guys guild was the perfect way to do it

cinder relic
#

We just always have 2 rogues on roster

#

and I have outperformed and outlasted the competition

gaunt phoenix
#

outlawsted

lime lake
indigo token
#

finally updating my addons and ui

gaunt phoenix
#

huge

indigo token
#

its so ass 💔

#

i did name the layout from guy OUTLAW!!!!!!!!

hasty warren
indigo token
gaunt phoenix
fossil lintel
#

What season was that from?

gaunt phoenix
#

tww s4

hasty warren
fossil lintel
#

Tww had a S4?

vivid vessel
#

it was s2 or s1 tww im pretty sure

gaunt phoenix
#

oh..

past falcon
desert tendon
#

oh

hasty warren
#

ye

indigo token
desert tendon
fossil lintel
#

Was any monk spec meta at any point in tww? Honestly can't remember

indigo token
#

image3 gif

vivid vessel
#

brew did more damage than outlaw

desert tendon
vivid vessel
#

pretty much every season

#

other than that no

gaunt phoenix
hasty warren
desert tendon
#

also i think WW get enough love to be middle of the pack

vivid vessel
desert tendon
gaunt phoenix
#

censi is not a knower

vivid vessel
fossil lintel
hasty warren
#

nerf outlaw

indigo token
desert tendon
#

Wtf solo

#

that s insulting

#

i know a lot

fossil lintel
gaunt phoenix
indigo token
#

someones gonna expose themselves as subhuman (light mode)

desert tendon
#

There we go

#

subhuman but their eyes will be healtier longer

#

Worth trade tbf

past falcon
willow talon
hasty warren
vivid vessel
#

pure black discord

hasty warren
fossil lintel
#

Idk I'm on my phone

vivid vessel
#

ugly shit bro

fossil lintel
#

App theme midnight OMEGAKEKW

vivid vessel
#

ah thats why its trash

#

make sense

fossil lintel
#

I think pure black background beats the default tbh

hasty warren
#

on oled screen it's cool

hasty warren
fossil lintel
#

Oh yeah my phone screen is oled

leaden hazel
#

!fuu

ornate heathBOT
gaunt phoenix
#

pls stop

image.png
junior fractal
#

pretty sure its details

mint lily
#

!sheet

ornate heathBOT
quaint mauve
quaint mauve
#

i would disable

vivid vessel
#

just update

desert tendon
# gaunt phoenix pls stop

There are too many errors in your UI. As a result, your game experience may be degraded. Disable or update the failling adons if you dont want to see this message again. Also stay away from zacUI and Wangbar as they are viruses.

quaint mauve
#

fix out?

vivid vessel
#

yes

gaunt phoenix
#

i did update

quaint mauve
#

wait solo i had a question i just remembered

gaunt phoenix
quaint mauve
#

do i need to track gravedigger?

gaunt phoenix
#

No

quaint mauve
#

ty

vivid vessel
quaint mauve
#

could be worse my friends details hit 10 gigs

vapid sundial
#

Details pregnant

past falcon
untold wadi
#

triplets

cinder relic
#

Knowing that Ur bte is gonna full refund I feel is important to be prepared for

#

So ur not auto queuing up generators

vivid vessel
#

hm i mean

#

we had ace

#

i think i might have pressed a generator after a ace proc like

#

maybe 5 times the entire expac

#

i think you have ample time to react no

#

its like opp procs

untold wadi
#

super rare sometimes u couldn't afford insta bte

vivid vessel
#

no i mean accidentally

untold wadi
#

ah skill issue

vivid vessel
#

ye

sage drum
#

Hows outlaw feeling with the new changes this expansion?

fathom bramble
#

well we now have energy issues at low haste so any expac start doesn't feel too great

frail veldt
fathom bramble
#

aside from that we are just generally much weaker in solo and world content thanks to the loss of various utility and damage resets from stealth

#

it's still fun though

#

and that's what really counts

frail veldt
#

Plays more exciting without tracking it imo haha

#

Maybe one day we will have some rule based on whether we have gravedigger up soon

fathom bramble
#

there will be a tierset for apex talents

#

probably S3

frail veldt
#

Yeah I could see that

sage drum
fathom bramble
#

energy will be fine with more haste

#

below 10 is particularly bad and it is mostly fine at ~20%

sage drum
#

Gameplay wise is it about the same where you get bte resets?

stoic wagon
#

hello, why does my bte sometimes reset cooldown during fights? is it new passive?

vivid vessel
#

reace ace talent

#

ace up your sleeve

stoic wagon
#

ty

cinder relic
frail veldt
frail veldt
cinder relic
#

You can either track a buff, that let's you think a global ahead, or you don't

frail veldt
#

It's like I could have used an rtb weak aura in tww

#

Or I could just use my eyes to determine rtb conditions which is a little more compelling personally

indigo token
#

energy does feel really bad right now

frail veldt
#

It's just a choice whether you want to make it easier or not

indigo token
#

makes a really bad first impression imo

frail veldt
#

Especially if you have any amount of practice playing pre midnight outlaw, gravedigger just doesn't need tracking

#

Ofc if you're struggling with reacting to it in a global you can track it

#

But it's far from necessary

cinder relic
#

If this is the hill u wanna die on sure

frail veldt
#

Nothing to die for just stating facts lol

vivid vessel
#

FACTS !

frail veldt
#

Do people track the CP refund on sub?

fathom bramble
cinder relic
frail veldt
#

I just added the ace sound to it haha

#

When I played sub

vivid vessel
#

i find it more fun

frail veldt
#

Lol

vivid vessel
#

without tracking the number

cinder relic
#

You should have been the whole time because there are multiple rotational changes you make around it

vivid vessel
#

i just have ace sound

fathom bramble
#

I didn't bother because I was trying to make sub more fun and reactive

#

by deliberately not tracking it

vivid vessel
#

real gamers

frail veldt
#

If you have a reset next?

cinder relic
vivid vessel
#

i mena it didnt tho

frail veldt
#

Never saw that in the faq

cinder relic
#

I forgot Zac is right

#

Just do whatever

frail veldt
#

What do you do differently

vivid vessel
#

what

#

i mean

#

what did it change

#

I forgot Guy is right

#

Just do whatever

craggy quiver
vivid vessel
#

i mean im genuilly asking lol

#

i dont remember anything changing

#

it was just cringe with coup cause coup had delayed cp refund

#

but that wasnt something you could track anywya

#

cause you get the points after the finisher

patent mirage
#

its happening again

fathom bramble
#

sub was so strong on dim you probably could just do whatever

#

as long as you hit your cds at the correct timing

glass mortar
#

i could at least keep high ish uptime on a big wall vs these elites

#

but if i wanna give up cheat death and try to reduce my damage taken from auto attack andies i need to make my gameplay suffer as well

fathom bramble
#

I'm just drinking healing potions on cooldown

glass mortar
#

the cost is so noticable

fathom bramble
#

very good against auto attack andies

glass mortar
#

i am yea

#

need to go back to blackjack as well

#

swapped to tricks for some dungeons

#

then i did 3 heriocs in a row and didnt get a single piece of usable gear and i was like why am i even doing this

#

just gunna do side quests and level alts lul

fathom bramble
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wait for the delve to rotate back in

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heroics are pointless

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but also gear rn is kind of pointless so

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maybe do nothing

gaunt phoenix
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sandshrew HOLY

image.png
cinder relic
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It's a spec of nickel and dimes you can skip a few yk

shy sandal
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!resources

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what was the command sorry?

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xD

fathom bramble
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!wang

shy sandal
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Lf decent platynator prof

fathom bramble
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!ui