#outlaw
desert tendon
fathom bramble
shouldn't profession profit calculator addons still work anyway?
pastel sierra
Yeah they are, but shit like transmutation and prospecting calcs is what im talking about
Not seen an addon for that
When i last looked a few months ago
pastel sierra
weird that it lacks those
It needs the prices for all the mats and expected rates of results
I assume its just super annoying to put together
craggy barn
im actually wondering now, does ffxiv have sims?
i never really paid attention to how they reached conclusions on their rotations
unique fulcrum
what talents u guys rocking for m+ atm
nova sinew
im actually wondering now, does ffxiv have sims?
they do for gear yeah
also every spell has a "potency" value that would be kinda like how wow spells have %ap modifiers on them, that let you have a good idea of what cast is more valuable at a certain point
limpid isle
also every spell has a "potency" value that would be kinda like how wow spells h...
just dont get to much skill speed or you might clip your gcd 
pastel sierra
im actually wondering now, does ffxiv have sims?
Yeah its also a lot easier bc theres literally 2 pieces of gear per slot
At highest ilvl
limpid isle
yeah xiv gearing is pretty simple
craggy barn
yuh
pastel sierra
Back when i played every class apart from BLm just had one best way to gear as well
lime lake
it does get a little interesting when you add in stuff like food to the equation
pastel sierra
And almost all of em were crit+Direct hit
lime lake
but yeah still way less complex than wow
frail veldt
what talents u guys rocking for m+ atm
if you check #outlaw-faq that has the talent builds for pre patch
hasty warren
Do you know if CurseForge rules are strict for addons ? In term of "adult" content
craggy barn
👀
next wedge
wow sex mod
hasty warren
I just made an addon that makes u say "8===D" if someone say "!penis" (it's a WA we had for years and was realy funny in raid)
I just wonder if it will be remove from CF because of the "sexual" content
enven if it's just dicks
lime lake
!penis
tropic zephyr
random size is goat, you can roll with penis
hasty warren
random size is goat, you can roll with penis
flavored rands
twilit scarab
was the nerf that came to trickster's hidden blade enough to make us go fb yet or nah?
twilit scarab
nah i know that, im talking rn in prepatch is all
torpid fiber
i never really paid attention to how they reached conclusions on their rotations
real talk the actual answer is that most of the time it's really obvious what buttons to press in ff14 bc of how the rotations are designed
gaunt phoenix
was the nerf that came to trickster's hidden blade enough to make us go fb yet o...
Nah
lethal oak
When will they give outlaw skyfury?
frail veldt
Isn't main gauche kinda sky fury already
copper radish
9 days
lethal oak
Isn't main gauche kinda sky fury already
so you're saying you found the mastery tech too? 
frail veldt
so you're saying you found the mastery tech too? <:Macky:676569583678652416>
Lol I am not mastery pilled
Crit vers gamer all day
covert kestrel
Crit vers gamer all day
0 haste pilled, my kind of man
craggy barn
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
- Use
Adrenaline Rush to activate 
Loaded Dice. - As Trickster, use
KS to activate 
Disorienting Strikes. - Do NOT use
RTB before the key, you will lose it. - Use
SND during the bubble once the key starts.
orchid vine
On a scale of microwave noises to concert pianist how carpel tunnel is outlaw rogue in midnight ?
mighty pivot
it dropped from ~90 apm to ~70
frail veldt
On a scale of microwave noises to concert pianist how carpel tunnel is outlaw ro...
If it was carpal tunnel before it still will be
vapid sundial
20 apm is a pretty big drop mewo
frail veldt
The specs not the problem
25% reduced apm won't solve your carpal tunnel
You have other problems
95% of players are mashing way more than the gcd anyway
orchid vine
20 apm is a pretty big drop mewo
I also low key think 20 apm is quite a big drop and sorry I don’t literally have carpel tunnel I was joking
frail veldt
It's self induced
vapid sundial
When people say that they normally mean how fast is the spec
You're thinking too deep and literal
frail veldt
Idk some people really do say it hurts their hands
orchid vine
It's self induced
No lies detected but my brain is even slower than my hands
frail veldt
But yeah we're 25% lower apm so
But we press the same buttons probably more often
Cuz our rotation is more basic
I find the specs that hurt my hands more are the ones that are repetitive not fast
If that was a genuine question about hand pain
orchid vine
Thank y’all both for your insight I’m sorry I exaggerated too much I was jk
covert kestrel
It's self induced
Mewo "Victim Blamer" Johnson
frail veldt
Hey sometimes people need a reality check
People will be like "my wrist hurts" and have a chair that doesn't even have arm rests
vapid sundial
You do know everyone has a different chance / likelihood of developing carpal tunnel
No matter how good you take care of them
Some people ain't built for the spammy life
frail veldt
You do know everyone has a different chance / likelihood of developing carpal tu...
Ye ofc your body honestly isn't equipped to play that much wow haha
They should bring back that loading screen
I forget who it is maybe @keen belfry but someone here only presses their buttons once per gcd
And just times it to the spell queue window
Prob has the healthiest hands in the discord
keen belfry
NOT ME
vapid sundial
They should bring back that loading screen
I do that when I'm super tired
Just slow and methodically
frail veldt
Yeah have you ever gotten those apm trackers
That just shows presses not globals
Crazy to see how much I overspam
pastel pendant
ppl also just mash their keyboard like they do more dmg if they do
and wonder why their hand hurts
covert kestrel
Crazy to see how much I overspam
its the melee in me
i need more apm
hands cant rest
frail veldt
Beat them into submission
covert kestrel
meant more smash melee in me
i wish outlaw could wavedash
bring back skill floor
craggy barn
I forget who it is maybe <@177964030474977281> but someone here only presses the...
me
hard to now without a gcd tracker tho
er the sqw tracker
mystic berry
got some honest questions, the faq says that BR is not worth for ST in prepatch, did I get it right? Also, I noticed that the opener mention SND, what reason is there for prepping snd if it is autocasted by dispatch? minmaxing? Final question, I find myself with 5 cp quite often, making either a sinister strike proc with opp or a pistol shot overflow, in this case, should I go for the SS still?
covert kestrel
got some honest questions, the faq says that BR is not worth for ST in prepatch,...
-
only if you are going to over cap on energy you can skip BR, you're not skipping it entirely
-
yes it is a minmax, to get it going faster than waiting for your first dispatch which will be later in your finisher prio
-
if you have 6 stacks of opp you send ps if not you send ss
Solo tell me if I'm wrong I haven't played since week 1 of prepatch
gaunt phoenix
it's correct
SND is awkward because ideally your first finisher is between the eyes and you would not dispatch until later
but on single target, it is okay to prioritize the first dispatch for SND
but in aoe, if SND is not active, it is better to prepull it so you can immediately open with blade flurry into BTE
mystic berry
thank you guys
half sorrel
hey guys, good morning. I was thinking of picking up outlaw as my main for midnight however I have 0 experience with it and I was wondering what is the state of the spec for midnight and how do you guys feel about it?
cinder relic
Depends who you ask
It's a high APM, builder spender spec
It's very much like fury warrior, but a bit more complicated
half sorrel
well that's right up my alley since I was a fury main before I took a break
cinder relic
Then u will probs like it
It used to be a breath of syndragosa, surrender to madness type spec, and it's not that anymore so some ppl really dislike the direction but
I like it a lot
half sorrel
guess I'll jump in and see for myself
I was looking for a faster paced spec that requires more than one neuron
cinder relic
It's a fairly simple spec all things considered but if you haven't played it before it'll take a bit to get the rhythm
young prism
It's a fairly simple spec all things considered but if you haven't played it bef...
will you be rolling outlaw again?
young prism
😄
I still feel like we'll be dependent on the composition mostly
no utility nothing that we'll bringing
unless outlaw hits like a truck, it'll be again really hard to find spot
especially if you are playing solo
pastel pendant
It's very much like fury warrior, but a bit more complicated
i wouldnt say that
the complicated part that is
its basically as ez as fury war now
except fury war does infinite more dmg and is actually fun
wintry solar
He's not saying it's complicated, he's saying it's more complicated than fury.
pastel pendant
Yeah I disagree with that one
wintry solar
There's nothing to disagree on
frail veldt
For farm, almost certainly
not prog bro?
pastel pendant
its definitely more complicated than fury
ok but how tho
frail veldt
what do you mean
frail veldt
I mean just the roll corner cases alone
theres a surprising amount of minor things
I mean its nothing compared to before
but compared to how like every other class got gutted from an already not that complicated state
outlaw is still probably one of the more complex
we also lost very few rotational buttons compared to most specs as well
pastel pendant
warrior got the least gutted imo
frail veldt
just gs and vanish and we gained BR(we had it before obv but never played) and gained prep
pastel pendant
but no one will play prep
frail veldt
warrior got the least gutted imo
tww fury didnt have a lot going on in the first place afaik
frail veldt
but no one will play prep
what information is making you say this
frail veldt
where did you get that info
pastel pendant
u play prep in mplus now?
frail veldt
in st you do
pastel pendant
okkkk but mplus is mostly aoe
pastel pendant
oh im tyalking about mplus specifallyt
frail veldt
well then specify that next time lol
frail veldt
also that might change
small tuning changes can very easily impact our talent selection
frail veldt
currently our talents are all very close in value
frail veldt
so its very easy to swap between a lot of options and lose only a couple percent damage
pastel pendant
its like you pop adr, then u prep, ok now adr is back off cd but now u have 15 sec of adr aldry rolling so now all the cd reduction from restless is pointless
cuz adr is alrdy off cd from prep
lucid stirrup
no to mention Prep should have been Sub's thing as they are the calculating/premeditating spec from desing POV
why is Outlaw unga bunga getting prep lol
pastel pendant
devs r clueless idk
did the devs who designed outlaw in df still working at blizz
prob not
idk
keen junco
its like you pop adr, then u prep, ok now adr is back off cd but now u have 15 s...
That’s because you don’t pop prep until after adr is over, you’re robbing yourself of a blade rush use, prep isn’t effected by outlaws cdr mech. So, ideal use of it would be directly after your adr is over, your second blade rush has gone off, and you’re only halfway through lust, or saving it for a long damage amp/important add burn phase. Prep is super strong when used correctly
Sims show like 5 of the talents for our last point to be very close to each other in value, but realistically giving yourself a whole ass new cool down to use is typically going to be much more useful even though it might show it’s close to others on sims.
As for m+, prep is trash don’t take it. Raid talent.
gleaming reef
I wonder if outlaw is trash for raids this coming tier
daring yoke
in raid, during opener, do u always get at least 2 stage?
keen junco
You kinda get what you get, if you’re stage 1 you reroll when you can
frail veldt
I wonder if outlaw is trash for raids this coming tier
It's usually pretty bad in prog yeah
winter cave
Sims show like 5 of the talents for our last point to be very close to each othe...
agreed, current raid was an excellent example as there was so much use-cases for it.
frail veldt
No cooldowns for damage amps and isn't tuned all that high atm
So it'll most likely be pretty mid in raid
Unless they buff us
cinder relic
I wonder if outlaw is trash for raids this coming tier
I think ppl are gonna be surprised
But what do I know 
gleaming reef
good surprise or bad surprise?
cinder relic
From my understanding sub st kinda mid
Ofc boss timers, burst aoe, is still subs strengths but
Sin is also undertuned
Which leaves Outlaw
gleaming reef
I would be surprised if it’s a sleeper spec for raid.
cinder relic
From my understanding sub st kinda mid
Idk if this is sub st being mid in aoe build, or just in general but
Ik sin poop
winter cave
I'll try since my guild is not exactly going for HoF
but I fully expect sub/sin tuning to make them the superior choice in the raid by too far once again
cinder relic
To be fair it's usually fine
This tier was genuinely the worst the spec has ever been
keen junco
No matter how they tune it, outlaw is still a feast or famine slot machine spec. Sub is in the pooper and there’s much better options for 1:30 burst classes. Who knows though, outlaw might pull through, they kind of gimped it with the 10% auto attack nerf on top of the 15% aura nerf with the bug fix. Lil too much. But yeah, the difference between high rolling back to back stage 4’s that you can KiR with and anything less is ridiculous.
cinder relic
The variance thing just doesn't rlly matter
Kinda evens out over a lot of pulls
A lot of specs have pretty high damage swings in modern wow
keen junco
I’m pretty just having to high roll to actually be a spec worth bringing matters, but sure man
cinder relic
It's been balanced in the past to not require insane highrolling just to be competitive
keen junco
There were two specs that were slot machines last tier. And neither of them were gimped if they low rolled. Not including outlaw at least
Every other spec was you pretty much either played it well, or you didn’t.
Don’t get me wrong, the RtB changes are awesome, it’s just the dps difference between stage 1 and 4 is gigantic
wintry solar
@mighty pivot what a beautiful day in Ark
mighty pivot
ain't no way people still play ark
wintry solar
you need to download an anti-cheat and Ark isnt something you suggest to your friends
its such a shitty game and you get addicted easily
mighty pivot
anticheat even for pve?
wintry solar
I guess so
All I know for sure is it wanted me to download it and when I denied I got stuck with singleplayer
honest sparrow
A few weeks ago i officially played wow more then i played ark. Had probably the most fun i ever had in games in my ark days
narrow blaze
No matter how they tune it, outlaw is still a feast or famine slot machine spec....
Would you say rogue is not in a good spot, lower mid tier ? Talking sub/outlaw in m+ . I am hard stuck between fury and rogue and can't even tell who can come out the safer pick
covert kestrel
Would you say rogue is not in a good spot, lower mid tier ? Talking sub/outlaw i...
Tuning is impossible to tell, they might change everything up at launch and then again a few weeks after that
Play what you find more fun and then master that
And the most important thing for m+ is to push like a demon the first week so you get good enough score to get invited with better players
narrow blaze
And the most important thing for m+ is to push like a demon the first week so yo...
That's the most true thing someone said
leaden sonnet
Would you say rogue is not in a good spot, lower mid tier ? Talking sub/outlaw i...
Just as an example, this week they nerfed the best m+ specs on beta (demo/arcane) by 15%, so its not really possible to know what will be the best ahead of time
narrow blaze
So rolling the bones what I gonna play
zinc briar
Unless they buff us
buffing outlaw lol
zenith egret
We’re never in the grave
patent mirage
Oh well
zenith egret
What was the last time we were near extinction ? Sepulcher of the First One ?
I remember us being like ~20 to run mythical progress
arctic merlin
Would you say rogue is not in a good spot, lower mid tier ? Talking sub/outlaw i...
Really depends, from personal experience, specs don't make a difference unless you're really pushing for a high score. That said, some specs do have more desirable utility which rogues do not possess and people might be less likely to accept one because of that
Say, would you rather a rogue or a dk who can heal himself to nearly full, dispell himself, reduce an insane amount of damage and provides amz and a br
lethal oak
55% mastery is the way
narrow blaze
Doing 55% of arcane dps
narrow blaze
Say, would you rather a rogue or a dk who can heal himself to nearly full, dispe...
That's really a point, but Warri vs rogue is not that much of a difference I guess.
arctic merlin
In that case, simply try and see which one you would find the most enjoyable and go for it
I was wondering between udk and outlaw, but after trying udk i feel like
vivid vessel
Really depends, from personal experience, specs don't make a difference unless y...
How is that true tho
I would even dare to say it's harder to get into low keys than high keys as the bad specs lol
Like LFG will have 10 dks at the top and 1 outlaw
Who tf would take the outlaw
When dk does twice the damage
At least in high keys you have less choice and you know people and shit you can take the outlaw guy vs the dk guy sometimes
narrow blaze
How is that true tho
My finding is, got high ilvl and score and you can neglect some class stuff - as long as you're ahead of the curve (ilvl score)
glass mortar
when u queue up for a key the first checks are almost always ilvl/io > spec meta ability
in the normal pugging bracket
the thing is, you need to have a pretty outstanding io or ilvl to make that be the main factor
arctic merlin
How is that true tho
Yes, thus me saying that people would take a dk or any other useful class and that's the primary difficulty in low and mid keys
glass mortar
because a month into the season theres 10 other people in queue with the same or higher ilvl and the same or higher io then u
and in that case the group makers usually just gunna invite who is meta
regardless of the key difficulty
because people are lazy
arctic merlin
People are too focused on meta and too lazy, yeah
glass mortar
i mean u are focused on making ur key as completable as possible
arctic merlin
Not realizing that for a 10 or a 12 it just doesn't matter
glass mortar
and u are using the only metrics available to u to fill them
leaden sonnet
Why would it be lazy. If you have 2 options and one is statistically better than the other
glass mortar
thats how the average person sees it anyway
leaden sonnet
Why would you pick the worse one
glass mortar
i call them lazy as a meme because they want their key completed in the easiest way possible
its not really laziness tho
ur picking from a pool of probably 20-30 players based on limited metrics
it makes sense to pick the specs you know are "op"
if the other usable metrics (ilvl and io) are a wash
arctic merlin
Why would you pick the worse one
Honestly a 3k outlaw would be more skilled than a 3k dk, but people wouldn't care
glass mortar
how does the group know that tho
theres no skill indicator in ur queue up they can tell between the rogue and the dk
assuming io is the same
arctic merlin
They wouldn't
glass mortar
ye which is why it matters
it makes sense for these people to pick the most meta specs regardless of their key level i guess is my point
arctic merlin
My entire point is that people are the primary difficulty, not the spec, not the mechanics
glass mortar
their only goal is to complete their key as easily as possible with people they have a limited pool of information about
arctic merlin
Yeah I agree
glass mortar
so it makes sense to pick the most op specs over others assuming ilvl and io are similar
arctic merlin
I guess
glass mortar
so if ur not meta u rely on getting into groups early (i always aim to queue for groups with only 1/2 people in them if possible), unique utility or overwhelming io/ilvl to get invites
unfortunatly as rogue our dungeon utility is pretty much bin mode
so we r very very reliant on tuning being positive for us to get invites
arctic merlin
We are reliant on rogue either being bonkers broken or actually having some utility added, yes
glass mortar
and of course theres always groups who just invite whoever because they dont really care (thats me) which u can hope to queue into eventually but thats like, average wait time 45 minutes for an invite type
arctic merlin
Healers like rogues as far as ik tho
glass mortar
spec definitly matters in this game for pugging unfortunatly
they liked rogues, we are much less tanky this expac tho
arctic merlin
They don't pull aggro, good survivability and a cheat death
arctic merlin
Yeah ig it won't stay that good for long
glass mortar
and our actives are ok... assuming theirs no ST hits
arctic merlin
Havoc is tankier
glass mortar
we might be the squishiest passive dr melee left in midnight tbh
pretty sure every melee in the game has more passive DR and max hp then us now
glass mortar
tbf sin was already close to that last expac, outlaw kinda cheated
we would have 25% vers s1 and then 30-40% for the rest of the expac
so just a casual 15-20% passive DR over most specs
they nerfed our defensive kit pretty decently but bigger then that is the fact that its unlikely we have much if any vers until s2/s3
doubt we'll even have much in s2 tho
narrow blaze
Back to my example, don't think a warrior brings more to the table then we, utilitywise. Battleshout is a thing but it looks like magic/ranged season so far
glass mortar
battleshout, dont they have 2 aoe stops?, commanding shout but yea warrior is generally considered on the weaker side for group utility as well
they still have a much more solid kit then us for dungeons but its not usually enough to get them invites based just on kit unless ur trying to make a phys comp
and even then they have a tank role that can be filled for that if prot is at least decent
random stirrup
aoe stun, group defensive, external...
glass mortar
the difference being i guess, battle shout is still part of the "phys comp you definitly want these buffs" while rogue exists to be tuned well enough to benifit from phys comp (or outlaw at least)
because you bring practically nothing to the table for the group
random stirrup
and like weran said people will actually invite a warrior for bshout if they're playing classes that benefit from it. the amount of people who have said "yeah let's get a rogue for that sick atrophic poison" is super super low
glass mortar
if arms or fury was meh but outlaw was busted and i was making a push group id probably still bring a warrior for the buff in some slot
itd need to be pretty bad to skip out on
reverse the situation and the only argument for bringing outlaw is u like the outlaw player
severe charm
they need to just make outlaw a tank spec lol
leaden sonnet
For rogue to be meta we have to highroll the tuning and also have shamans highroll (or atleast not lowroll) their tuning 
glass mortar
last time rogue was even meta it was for sub shroud speed shenangins
ig it depends what we mean by meta tho cause theres dif metas between like mdi and r1 keys
the last time i saw rogue in mdi it was for that i guess i should say
glass mortar
blizzard when they can increase the cost of rogues utility kit for some reason (this class has no utility btw)
leaden sonnet
They randomly swapped premeditation into the utility rows and speed shroud into the dps rows
Just for fun
glass mortar
it was simply too powerful
leaden sonnet
Also playing sub without skyfury is pure misery now, as like 75% of your combo points come from auto attacks (on ST)
leaden sonnet
Nop
buoyant stratus
Its 20% autoattack speed effectively
gaunt phoenix
i thought they made it only mastery at some point
buoyant stratus
The totem never left
gaunt phoenix
buoyant stratus
Just found a new home 💔
mighty pivot
Yeah and now speed shroud costs ~2% dps
2% by dropping silent storm?
leaden sonnet
2% by dropping silent storm?
No, silent storm is useless
But you cant path to the right if you do that
jolly geyser
<:Fridge:1143900603593011270>
mighty pivot
don't you path just fine by dropping EE?
buoyant stratus
Yo what if we become so haste saturated we do drop relentless strikes...
leaden sonnet
Idk maybe theres some situations, but generally 5% leech that "cant overheal" is very very strong
Especially in keys where you spam BP, which is where you would want the movespeed the most
glass mortar
making it mastery only would actually be so good
arms warriors would scream from the mountaintop in joy
u think sub is bad u should try arms with no skyfury
AA simulator frfr
leaden sonnet
Idk sub is fairly similar
glass mortar
until you realize blizzards intention was for arms and sub to have like 30% less resources with no skyfury and u guys have just been breaking the rules this whole time
yea they probably arent all that different
rotund depot
fossil lintel
Is it just me or all the tier sets bonuses seem super meh this season?
glass mortar
u mean midnight s1 tier?
fossil lintel
Yea
glass mortar
do we have numbers for ours yet even, i saw monks expect theirs to (with current value) be like 3% dps total
i have no clue how that compares across the game
s1 tier sets usually arent all that much tho
fossil lintel
Yeah the monk one is terrible
Ours is similar but at least we get a small damage bonus for 8 sec after blade rush
random stirrup
Is it just me or all the tier sets bonuses seem super meh this season?
s1 tiers are usually boring and low impact because they just did a bunch of class changes and want to see how things adjust
and with midnight simplification it's even more obvious 
hasty warren
Hi pirates
vivid vessel
Yea
they always do bnoring s1 tiers
cause apparetnly we already get a lot of new stuffs
with talent reowkrs and thins
jolly geyser
vivid vessel
hasty warren
BR set looks ok
covert kestrel
BR set looks ok
BRASIL
regal saffron
@vivid vessel
vivid vessel
what
regal saffron
Sup zachary
vivid vessel
its not how its written noob
regal saffron
Hows outlul?
regal saffron
Playable trash?
covert kestrel
Battle Royal
here comes another chinese earthquake
hasty warren
here comes another chinese earthquake
pref indian ones
covert kestrel
pref indian ones
covert kestrel
the best video on the internet
hasty warren
my ears
covert kestrel
big american t t s
hasty warren
ok it's a masterpiece
untold wadi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv6RbEOlqRo
w vid
hasty warren
is rogue the worst class for midnight ?
coarse parcel
frail veldt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv6RbEOlqRo
When I first saw these videos I fucking cried laughing
So funny
It was also in like highschool haha
loud garden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv6RbEOlqRo
This is elite ball knowledge
keen belfry
are we leveling in a week???
clear lava
!FUU
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
dreamy tiger
Bros, did we get AOE blind back?
leaden sonnet
No, theyve just forgotten to remove it
dreamy tiger
When I go into Rookery and use blind in a pack, it hits all targets in range
zinc briar
Its me or outlaw feels like cluncky
leaden sonnet
Its probably gonna get fixed and properly get removed
zinc briar
I have to stop my fingers now
dreamy tiger
No, theyve just forgotten to remove it
That is hilarious
Betting it works in m+ atm then?
leaden sonnet
Yes
vivid vessel
but if they remove it the "new" talent makes 0 sense
cause it makes blind the same cd as gouge
but then you just pick gouge
and also have blind
so idk
but its rogue devs
they are clueless
leaden sonnet
Its not
gaunt phoenix
There's no issue with blind. I don't know what you mean. 😃
leaden sonnet
Its only if you spec airborne irritant
keen belfry
we blind from the air, irritantly. so it must be aoe right? given the name they dont even have to tooltip the aoe part
irritantly blind from the air will obvi be aoe
untold wadi
but then you just pick gouge
doesn't gouge cost energy
zinc briar
Its me or outlaw feels like cluncky
.
untold wadi
oh sick
glass mortar
ye also 20s cd aoe stop is kinda bonkers
not at all if its literally the only aoe stop in ur whole kit imo
vivid vessel
having 1 more cc is just infinite more value
glass mortar
rogue cc power has nearly always been pathetic for m+
vivid vessel
not at all if its literally the only aoe stop in ur whole kit imo
yes sure
glass mortar
this is actually the most reasonable version we've gotten
and its probably by accident
vivid vessel
and its an accident
glass mortar
funny stuff or?
vivid vessel
funny
untold wadi
rogue cc power has nearly always been pathetic for m+
cheap can clutch ngl
keen belfry
ive begun to think that theres a month inbetween m+ and early access leveling because they are going to use that time to fix outlaw rogue
zinc briar
Imagine thinking that outlaw exists for them
They will abandon us as always and we will be the worst dps in raid again
cinder relic
They will abandon us as always and we will be the worst dps in raid again
It's only been exceptionally bad in raid a few times
I'd say this tier was an extremely abnormally bad outlaw tier
glass mortar
bad expac tbh but yea usually outlaw is at least mid in raw dps and only "bad" because its alot of a spec to pull off for mid dps so most dont bother trying
cinder relic
Usually outlaw is like, just as good lol
glass mortar
s1 wasnt that good for outlaw either unfortunatly, better in raid then m+ at least
cinder relic
Mana forge is like the only tier I'd tell people to just not bother with the spec
glass mortar
yea worst raid tier i remember as outlaw anyway
in a loooooooooooooooooong time
dimi might be the worst endboss ever made for outlaw wouldnt surprise me
leaden sonnet
Tindral wasnt great either, but ig thats not technically an endboss
glass mortar
outlaw was a decent spec on fyrakk it was just gatekept for the bleeding edge people by tindral and the other specs being as good
cobalt token
Mana forge is like the only tier I'd tell people to just not bother with the spe...
The spec do be weak
But the mechanics don't feel too bad
keen belfry
i pray these new crest system shengnngaingains destroy turbo boost
gaunt phoenix
new crest sharingan 
keen belfry
when iu read the larpas dont upgrade crests until week 4 sharndinagan. i was like nono dont even think about it girl!
but if tthats the price to pay of removing turbo boost, i can accept that
gaunt phoenix
river wing
i pray these new crest system shengnngaingains destroy turbo boost
the old system was already "three months to fully upgrade, maybe two if you myth raid"
the new one is literally six months without TB, I don't believe it will survive more than half a season
gaunt phoenix
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1299589862885953658/1411116332589518888/M...
LMAO
keen belfry
the old system was already "three months to fully upgrade, maybe two if you myth...
i wonder what they can do, cuz like
i dont want turbo boost
glass mortar
see if im in combat i aint ever doing that, /cast darkness for me
river wing
simply go back to old prices ngl
glass mortar
but also i dont know dh so i would take 30s to find that spell in the spellbook
keen belfry
but i also like being done gearing around 2ish 3ish months in like old system
keen belfry
simply go back to old prices ngl
old prices, no turbo boost
gaunt phoenix
its alphabetical
keen belfry
pick one tho, old prices turbo boost, new prices no turbo boost
glass mortar
both the new prices and the turbo boost are seeking to fufill the same goal
which is making ur gearing process to bis take longer into the season
i dont think ur gunna get a solution that completely fixes that
since u dont even like the thing its "fixing"
river wing
pick one tho, old prices turbo boost, new prices no turbo boost
then I'd rather have turbo ngl
glass mortar
same
river wing
because I can still be done three and a half months in
gaunt phoenix
i like the double check to make sure it went off
river wing
rather than SIX
glass mortar
turbo over this crest nonsense
keen belfry
i think gradual week by week is better than random turbo boost week, but i could totally be wrong and think holy shit this sucks having to farm crests still
keen belfry
i like the double check to make sure it went off
u can see me scanning my spellbook as i open it
river wing
and take a three month break
river wing
weird looking rogue....
idk it uses darkness
darkness = edgy = rogue
keen belfry
3 minutes left in a +10 and we are on swampface
glass mortar
true
if it was wang it woulda already been depletod
just KIDDING we support and cherish wang in here
keen belfry
glass mortar
awangangangaw
keen belfry
someone made a gif of my dmg on soulbinder where i didnt get to pad
surely my boss dmg was good tho no/
keen belfry
its weird cuz they tuned things
gaunt phoenix
its from wclogs overall page
keen belfry
they just didnt tune outlaw
glass mortar
they r more willing to let specs rot if its a single dps spec from a pure class i think
vivid vessel
its from wclogs overall page
we are still dead bottom on there so
river wing
yeah
keen belfry
we are still dead bottom on there so
i forgot were we always bottom of that page? i know they removed a few fights/damage to adds from wcl
vivid vessel
i forgot were we always bottom of that page? i know they removed a few fights/da...
ye kinda
crimson arch
hey is there a way to disable the cooldown swipe on the utility bar in the cooldownmanager?
keen belfry
hey is there a way to disable the cooldown swipe on the utility bar in the coold...
addon
vivid vessel
we were kinda bottom always and then in boss damage we were bottom -5%
hasty warren
nerf outlaw
keen belfry
was so funny when they reverted the 15% dmg buff and didnt full revert bf nerf
actual funny
like hehe haha
gaunt phoenix
and then sent it into prepatch
glass mortar
prepatch i dont think they care almost at all
isnt fire mage doing like negative damage rn
gaunt phoenix
they just tuned prepatch specifically yesterday
hasty warren
isnt fire mage doing like negative damage rn
negative gameplay too
keen belfry
i cant wait to see what all these template specs turn into by 1am xpac
get to play template specs for a whole xpac LETS GO!!
jolly geyser
I need to get some daggers
leaden sonnet
they just tuned prepatch specifically yesterday
Absolute banger applying the tuning aimed for beta to the prepatch but not to the beta
Blizzard move
gentle sky
hey im doing a lot of old raids atm and i notest that a lot of the time i press Blade Rush i only hit my target and it dos no aoe is this a but like BF is on mobs that get one tapt ?
keen belfry
do old raids as diff spec
gentle sky
i dont mid doing it as outlaw my auto attacks ar so fast XD but it sucks that it dont work
blade Rush works some times
glass mortar
damage needs to not kill the primary target instantly for it to cleave iirc
(same as BF)
outlaw is kinda trashed for farming old content unfortunatly even if hook is the best
keen belfry
running low on chilli powder need to get some more pretty soon
desert tendon
was orgasmic, i say it
glass mortar
cinder relic
i dont understand how outlaw tuning was so botched this tier
Think it was a wod demo type thing lol
"we'd prefer you didn't play outlaw"
gaunt phoenix
maybe
untold wadi
outlaw with 2x long grapple + er bug
how did er bug help farm old raids
untold wadi
oh with slice?
gaunt phoenix
snd bug
glass mortar
never forgave zac for normalizing ER bug in actual pve content
it existed long before the m+ers were abusing it
untold wadi
discovering that was so weird lol
gaunt phoenix
what bug? 😃
you guys are really crazy inventing bugs that dont exist with blind and snd
glass mortar
surely blind thing will be codified as intended
rogue is supposed to be a cc class
formal knot
they will nerf rogue aoe damage because aoe blind is too strong
glass mortar
my vanilla wow manual told me
formal knot
and in the same patch they fix aoe blind
untold wadi
surely blind thing will be codified as intended
"we made a mistake, and will be rectifying it"
glass mortar
theres no way any dev thinks its ok in the modern game to have a class without a single aoe stop right
😐
that would be the result of the tooltip "intended" changes
especially the damn cc class
keen belfry
well guys if u think about it
if u kick, tab target kidney, tab target vanish into cheap shot
aoe stop no?
glass mortar
u forgot gouge but true
formal knot
subterfuge spamming cheap shot is your aoe stop, take it or leave it 
glass mortar
rogue gcd is reduced compared to normal so we made it take them 5X as long to do their "aoe stop"
keen belfry
imagine saving AR for your aoe stop window
glass mortar
are our cc abilities even on ARs gcd reduction
ruby quail
Didn't they put a 12 second cd on cheap shot?
glass mortar
theyve been around so long that surely they must be
keen belfry
Didn't they put a 12 second cd on cheap shot?
yes but 2 minute cd on vanish
glass mortar
cd on CS is irrelevant to outlaw since ur limiting factor is that u can only vanish once every 2 minutes and you will never get to play with subterfuge
copper radish
Yall excited to level as midnight outlaws
cinder relic
Yes!!
copper radish
8 days and we popping gravedigger BTEs
mighty pivot
@wintry solar say you're excited or they might fire you 
keen belfry
NR WHERE buold todauy?
clear zephyr
How much hast shoukd i have in the pre-patch using Fate Bound?
patent mirage
grab your swords and pistols and yaaar away
gaunt phoenix
How much hast shoukd i have in the pre-patch using Fate Bound?
at least 30%
clear zephyr
at least 30%
ty
desert tendon
never forgave zac for normalizing ER bug in actual pve content
abusing it in sylvanas p2
what a fun time it was
frail veldt
<@530563212093947914> say you're excited or they might fire you <:monkaGIGA:7582...
didnt you hear they took away the capstones hes part of the dommer gang now
keen belfry
NR WHERE buold todauy?
@nr @mighty pivot
mighty pivot
didnt you hear they took away the capstones hes part of the dommer gang now
you mean when they made it more costly to reach the capstones 1-2 weeks ago? Why does he care about that, he doesn't even log in the game 
we are getting an insane build today yes
gaunt phoenix
the tuning hotfixes were just sent to beta
glass mortar
bro they buffed disintigrate by like 76%
dev is playing ST build everywhere, even m+ on beta
frail veldt
you mean when they made it more costly to reach the capstones 1-2 weeks ago? Why...
idk he said he was having fun before but that they fucked up gating and now hes not having fun
glass mortar
blue beam does too much damage
keen belfry
we are getting an insane build today yes
ty
glass mortar
not even buffed, bugfixed ig i should say
keen belfry
guys for all you mage haters i have invented a banger reply to them talking about being squishy, you guys ready?
frail veldt
send it
keen belfry
hey (insert mage here) why are you so defensive about mages rn, i thought you didnt have any (insert fire emoji here)
thoughts?
frail veldt
LOL thats dumb
glass mortar
dead as rogue somehow??? deserved
keen belfry
bad procs
honest lotus
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc:
Mute Cold Blood sound
EasyReminders - can show poison reminders outside of instances
copper radish
dead as rogue somehow??? deserved
Rogue is alive as ever 😭
covert kestrel
celest cobalt
copper radish
that response doesnt even make sense to that sentence without its context
It doesn’t need to make sense just accept it
glass mortar
copper radish
https://tenor.com/view/so-long-partner-woody-toy-story-3-bye-goodbye-gif-5994071...
Sub cancelled in 8 days? 😭
covert kestrel
Sub cancelled in 8 days? 😭
Just not buying midnight, not rage quitting just timing with rl stuff sucks for s1 so break angle and come back in s2
copper radish
Maybe by S2 we will be god tier
keen belfry
😍
frail veldt
HUGE
keen belfry
imo that means huge beta changes today
keen junco
That's really a point, but Warri vs rogue is not that much of a difference I gue...
Tuning dependent and realistically, phys comp won’t be viable until after the .5 patch when the real meta comes out. As of now though, phys comp is in the pooper. For high/title keys at least. Getting 3k on whatever you want is fairly simple and absolutely realistic. It’s just some classes are gonna take a lil more time investment (push your own key because you simply won’t get invited to other groups). But, yeah, getting 3k on warrior, rouge, melee warlock, ranged crackling jade lightning wind walkers whatever you want is not going to be an issue. Just play whatever you have the most fun on, and if you really want to push for title and your class is still in the pooper after .5 patch then that’s the time to reroll
proven ocean
@gaunt phoenix
hearty lagoon
copper radish
👨🦯➡️ us all season 1 looking for tuning
random stirrup
miss these combo points already
keen belfry
if only there was a replacement
unique fulcrum
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
- Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
- As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
- Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
- Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.
strong halo
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
- ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
- MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
- Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc: - Mute Cold Blood sound
- EasyReminders - can show poison reminders outside of instances
cold jewel
@keen belfry are you a gp player?
lime lake
release the wang files
vivid vessel
show it ..
cold jewel
jk my panth was on a warpath
covert kestrel
tardy moss
is there a reason to use dagger as second weapon?
vivid vessel
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of 
Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.
It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use 
Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.
vivid vessel
also you can transmog daggers to swords and shit now
so no reason not to
especially since you can use it for other specs
covert kestrel
so far dual swords
time to pack it in and reroll
covert kestrel
idk how to win on gp
you gotta shiver them timbers
keen belfry
no 🙁
vestal notch
then you should probably get banned by racially abusing nidalee
vestal notch
it can heal
glass mortar
thats what i did
vestal notch
can mega poke
glass mortar
only way 2 fix that problem
keen belfry
league is so fun but so ass
vestal notch
league is really fun if you play with friends in a turbo casual way
like just playing some bullshit botlane duo
frail veldt
league is so fun but so ass
play tft
cinder relic
deadlock best video game
cinder relic
cold jewel
i tried it, man does the combat feel very floaty. feels like nothing does dam but i only played like 2-3 games so i had no idea what i was doing
cinder relic
have they given a target date?
Not at all
Its not even in open beta so
So many art assets are still unfinished af
Probs by 2027 or smthing
frail veldt
i tried it, man does the combat feel very floaty. feels like nothing does dam bu...
yeah I def felt very lost and like nothing did damage at the start
cinder relic
Doubt it even enters open beta this year
frail veldt
cuz I just didnt know how anything worked
frail veldt
Doubt it even enters open beta this year
uuuuugh
its fine
they should take their time
covert kestrel
they should take their time
yeah but the skill floor is rising, you must start asap so you don't get perma locked wood tier behind the sweaters from alpha!!!!
Forgo s1 midnight, embrace deadlock (I've barely played 
)
frail veldt
yeah but the skill floor is rising, you must start asap so you don't get perma l...
tbh not wrong
but you have time
the skill floor will honestly inevitably drop on release
cuz new players will enter
covert kestrel
cuz new players will enter
yeah like u
cant wait to turbo stomp mewo
he'll barely even be able to get into a semantic argument in all chat
mighty pivot
slow typer 
cold jewel
foot pedal
frail veldt
dont even
cold jewel
its always the answer
frail veldt
smack you in the face with 150wpm
frail veldt
I grew up playing dota in wc3
the faster you type the stronger your argument is
its just facts
mighty pivot
only if you have caps lock permanently on
frail veldt
I dont even have a capslock lol
covert kestrel
rebind that shit immediately
if you cant type fast while holding shift you dont deserve to yell online
frail veldt
if you cant type fast while holding shift you dont deserve to yell online
TRUTH NUKE
covert kestrel
I SAID WHAT I SAID
frail veldt
DAMN RIGHT
lethal oak
gaunt phoenix
quaint mauve
https://tenor.com/view/hop-on-deadlock-mina-deadlock-seejaydj-hop-on-gif-2699000...
i love mina
mighty pivot
quaint mauve
https://tenor.com/eUzvwdUoIyH.gif
gaunt phoenix
mighty pivot
cinder relic
i love mina
gaunt phoenix
covert kestrel
I got this bed that attaches to my desk so she stops lying on my laptop
She snores loud tho 
keen belfry
WAIT IT WAS ACTUALLY YOU?
yes
cold jewel
inland stag
Guy in Max stream today?
cinder relic
maybe!
vivid vessel
wqhat is puppy
fluid iron
dog but small
untold wadi
frail veldt
tag me when its rogue time please, im watching puppy so im a bit distracted
Bro pics pls
All this cat nonsense
fluid iron
Bro pics pls
mighty pivot
is puppy
wintry solar
He wasn't lying
fossil lintel
yo some assa main is dissing outlaw in max's stream
wintry solar
you mean when they made it more costly to reach the capstones 1-2 weeks ago? Why...
I don't. He says I do
wintry solar
<@530563212093947914> say you're excited or they might fire you <:monkaGIGA:7582...
Not really
It's a formality atp
frail veldt
Damn hella cute
frail veldt
yo some assa main is dissing outlaw in max's stream
We deserve it
fiery umbra
to be fair, hes dissing all rogue specs lol
strong halo
How come when i import a profile from CDM it doesnt move any of the placements?
leaden sonnet
A blizzard entertainment classic
strong halo
is it just the way it is?
glass mortar
no
frank finch
who did the rogue ranking on maxs stream?
dry ermine
who did the rogue ranking on maxs stream?
shindig
frank finch
nice
strong halo
so you cant really change your player frame without addons?
other than i guess sizing and icon
frank finch
correct
strong halo
Ok this default blizzard ui is actually trash then
frank finch
gotta turn it on in options
strong halo
yeah but it doesnt show any numbers just a random bar?
fiery umbra
so if yall were to rate outlaw on max's list to your own opinion, where would yall put it?
frank finch
about right
brisk crypt
Rogue as a whole just got fuckin... DEVASTATED on that tier list lol
mighty pivot
common shindigg W
ornate pulsar
w shindigg i agree 100 percent we need a change up its been to long idc
dry ermine
outlaw will be a prison spec as always
unplayable in prog so u cant gear for it
doomers rejoicing rn
craggy barn
solo u there
strong halo
ngl this is ass might go back to Elvui
cinder relic
Rogue as a whole just got fuckin... DEVASTATED on that tier list lol
gg I already rerolled after this
cinder relic
mayb
craggy barn
double checking the docs rq
can u not a conditional group?
ie !(buff.stealth.up&buff.instant_poison.up)
u can right?
nvm zac answered in dms bc hes muted 
past falcon
wtf did he do
dark steeple
dry ermine
hardy vault
unplayable in prog so u cant gear for it
guild just needs to be low wr enough to not care about what spec you play. i'll play outlaw no matter what
dry ermine
omw to join race to world last guild
frail veldt
nvm zac answered in dms bc hes muted <:OMEGALUL:901038707879067709>
LOL zac got muted???
whatd he do
next wedge
im in a race to world 1000 guild
craggy barn
someone forwarded it mewo
hardy vault
fiery umbra
tbh, im still frustrated that the hero spec between sub and outlaw wasn't something along the lines of "hitman" where you summon shadows with silenced pistols that deal damage in a line
haughty wigeon
Outlaw Rogue Rework Proposal – Shifting from Cooldown Reduction to Proximity-Based Burst Identity
[I used AI translation, so some expressions may sound slightly unnatural.]
Dear Blizzard Class Design Team,
I would like to share some structured feedback regarding Outlaw Rogue’s current design and propose a potential direction for improvement.
- Cooldown Reduction-Based DPS Design Creates Structural Balance Issues
frail veldt
!ban
covert kestrel
Outlaw Rogue Rework Proposal – Shifting from Cooldown Reduction to Proximity-Bas...
fiery umbra
so turn outlaws damage profile from consistent and constant to .....arms?
covert kestrel
someone forwarded it mewo
Wait someone tell me too
frail veldt
proximity based damage sounds like the most toxic aids ass mechanic to ever be invented
covert kestrel
Oh lol I see
frail veldt
based
wintry solar
Wait someone tell me too
Can you tell me?
covert kestrel
Can you tell me?
Scroll up to Ochrs comment it's not the far it's a link to assa
fluid iron
shindig
covert kestrel
Was there a new one
covert kestrel
New max tier stream thing
frail veldt
its the one from today
tender wedge
Yeah he’s generally pretty good vibes which plays well in that format
I like the dude
wintry solar
Someone repped rogue somewhere?
frail veldt
yep
wintry solar
Nice
frail veldt
go check it out popo
indigo token
Outlaw Rogue Rework Proposal – Shifting from Cooldown Reduction to Proximity-Bas...
sybau
wintry solar
glass mortar
proximity based damage sounds like the most toxic aids ass mechanic to ever be i...
isnt... isnt that just called being a melee tho?
frail veldt
I mean yeah p much
obsidian minnow
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/outlaw-rogue-rework-proposal-–-shifting-...
Since it's outlaw: "You gain a 0.1% dmg increase for every gold pickpocketed in dungeon."
glass mortar
uh is that a thing
copper radish
How are our spirits doing about launch