outlaw

[frail veldt]

do you want them to be stronger?

[wintry solar]

We've had this convo before

[frail veldt]

idr

[wintry solar]

I love busted trinkets

[frail veldt]

we had some busted ones this xpac

[wintry solar]

Bonus points if there's a ring or weapon that synergies with it

[wintry solar]

The gooner

My beloved

[pastel pendant]

Don’t u still just spread bleeds as assa? It was pretty simple beforehand but spreading bleeds in mass aoe was fun. Just st was boring af

[lime lake]

rip pirate son

[frail veldt]

house of cards was so good it was even strong on outlaw with mastery being our worst stat

bee trinket was hilariously strong

[cinder relic]

Genuinely move on

[frail veldt]

until it got hit with fun detected

[lime lake]

i feel like house of cards was only good bc the other trinkets that season were not great

[cinder relic]

Like get a new hobby

[lime lake]

like it wasnt even that much better for sub than transmitter

[river wing]

AoE on Assa is now about the same speed as ST which is v low once you burn through tea
spreading bleeds is easy but ST is like, super dull (Garrote, high CP Rupture, then just Muti into Envenom forever, blast KB/DM on CD - IDK why they removed Shiv windows, it legitimately was not something you couldn't track with the current UI, and it added some spice at least)

[wintry solar]

I've started getting into nighttime photography

[frail veldt]

was transmitter also 1.5min?

[river wing]

yea that was just about it, S2 trinkets were kinda lame

[frail veldt]

I hated playing transmitter

ngl

[lime lake]

ye

[frail veldt]

I did not like the mini games

0/10

[frail veldt]

they had some cool ones but they were super undertuned

p sure there was a flamethrower and rocket launcher one right?

could have been fun haha

[wintry solar]

Grateful I never had transmitter

[frail veldt]

but was too weak

[lime lake]

i actually like the footbomb locker trinket from delves this season

but its a delve trinket so

but kicking explosives at people is fun

[wintry solar]

Any labyrinth gamers

I was upset Big Red Button sucked dong in S2

Loved that trinket back in BFA

[river wing]

transmitter was basically part of the early TWW's ideas about "how about we make stuff with downsides" itemization
some trinkets, some embellishments, etc
then it turned out nobody used them bar the transmitter and only because transmitter was busted

[simple frigate]

This might blow your mind, but I enjoy Outlaw. But I think it’s time you just moved on, this can’t be healthy

[wintry solar]

Tbf, every iteration of OL blows in comparison to SL Outlaw

Not gonna sit and compare the outlaw of then and now, otherwise I'd be upset all the time.

[rich crane]

Hi guys i mainly play sub and playing outlaw for fun since S2, started wow at tww and reason playing sub over outlaw is for raid progress
Now i miss the old outlaw but im one trick outlaw for sure cause sub is boring asf
We miss lot of defensive compared to before but tell me if im wrong, if we just have way more bte reset proc, gameplay is fine no ? Hope they will think about it

[river wing]

ngl defensives are still fine, you just can't have 100% feint uptime (which you don't need anyway)

[vivid vessel]

and you have 2min cd on evasion

[pastel pendant]

Enjoying outlaw rn can’t be healthy either, ur copeing hard no way anyone finds butchered spec fun now

[vivid vessel]

and no vers

and no vainsh every 20 s for healing

and no 5% stam

and no 5% dr on ps

[river wing]

losing vers primary is the main thing that is gonna be felt, I think

[vivid vessel]

have you ever played sin in keys dude

you cant say defensives is fine

if you played sin in keys in tww

it was dogshit

[river wing]

yes? sin has insane survivability lmao, you can feint just about everything

[vivid vessel]

and outlaw is the same

you never done a key higher than a weekly then

if you think that

anything that isnt aoe

you are litteraly a minion

doing swampface

[pastel pendant]

Yes ur squishy af now and the spec blows big dick to play so what do u do

[vivid vessel]

with assa

litteraly impossible

[pastel pendant]

Dude resetting bte doesn’t even fill ur cp anymore like u have to use a builder after

Wtf dude

That is disgusting

30% uptime on adr 😴 😴

We had it so good

U don’t know how good u have it till it’s gone

Basically is what’s happening here

[river wing]

only +13 yes
but like
if rogue survivability is trash
how do people playing like lock or hunter even manage, their defensives are far more dogshit and can't even cover every instance of stuff

[vivid vessel]

its legit

people think rogue has insane defensives

cause it was like that back in the days

except

everyone got more and more

if you ever do high keys on assa

you know

you are the one getting fucked

[pastel pendant]

Ok but last ssn outlaw did have insane defensive

[vivid vessel]

sure if its aoe you are good

if its not aoe

its gg

class is useless

[vivid vessel]

yes?

and we lost it all

[pastel pendant]

Yea

We did

We lost all of it

But u said back in the day but I mean last ssn outlaw had insane defensives

But now it’s all gone

[vivid vessel]

i mean that rogue in general

outlaw is different with evasion cdr and vers stacking

or was differnet

[haughty wigeon]

also elusivness

but like

thats all gone

outlaw is wet paper now

[river wing]

elusiveness aint' gone

[daring turret]

Isn't outlaws evasion cdr gone?

[pastel pendant]

Ya

And vanish too

And u only play 1 vanish charge

It’s overall wayyy shittier than before

And now ur energy starved way more often so feinting will be extremely aids to do

[normal forge]

what is the most likely midnight s1 top dps meta?

[pastel pendant]

And vanish for defense is even worse now becuz u don’t regenerate health in ur vanish like before, becuz u don’t go down that talent tree path for soothing. On top of cheap shot being on a cd too. Just overall a complete dumpster fire garbage game design

How these devs even decided to go through with is beyond my comprehension

[wintry solar]

For rogue? Probably sub if I had to take an educated guess.

Ngl that sentence was half buzzwords so I just assumed you asked what would be best

[dull geyser]

this discord is 100% doomers. it’s wild

[pastel pendant]

Realists u mean

[wintry solar]

If you put Zach on ignore it's a regular amount of doom

[normal forge]

i meant this https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/choose-your-main-guide

[wintry solar]

What is this, like a ranking system?

[dull geyser]

if yall don’t like it then change spec lol it’s like a giant sounding board for the same opinions. i like the new version. will help new ppl play outlaw. a good thing

[normal forge]

yeah, thats a choose your main tool, where they classify specs based on some criteria, such as defensive, aoe, st, prio dmg, etc

[wintry solar]

There's a good bit of people here that do like it. You just picked a bad time to take a peak.

It's YOUR fault

[dull geyser]

oh .. ok that’s good

[vivid vessel]

havent seen an outlaw player say he likes it yet

[dull geyser]

i like it

[vivid vessel]

point still stand

[dull geyser]

no i am the point. im the one ☝🏽

[normal forge]

the spec plays well, the dmg is off, imo

we need s3 frost dk lvl aoe, thats about it

[wintry solar]

Middle of the pack is a very safe place to be

Solo typing an essay

[dull geyser]

lol

[molten oasis]

Fell like that’s wrong after the nerfs

[molten oasis]

It’s Quite fun ? But saying that fell like out in a lot of work for not much

Surely Mr Zac will still be playing outlaw? Or gonna jump to somthing elce

[vivid vessel]

everything else is worse so

[wintry solar]

LoL main

[vivid vessel]

you look at outlaw you think its bad

and then next to it

there is sub and assa

2 button

litteraly braindead gameplay

[molten oasis]

Yesh but they seem to do as much or more damage for less work lol

But Outlaw gets more buff from Bear Phys comp for me so 🤷‍♀️

[vivid vessel]

if you think its work

idk why you play the game im gonna be honest

i will never understand that

[dull geyser]

?

[vivid vessel]

thats not really true

idk how the new windfurry is tho now

but it has been the same

with sub

really

[molten oasis]

New?

[vivid vessel]

well not new sorry

just

outlaw melees now

are much better

[molten oasis]

Yesh sub and outlaw are close to the same

[vivid vessel]

and we scale with it more

[iron fable]

Hear me out: i shoot pistol, im happy

[vivid vessel]

its gonna be different

[vivid vessel]

waht

[molten oasis]

I play Bear - Mw - Fury - rouge - Hunter

[vivid vessel]

ah no skyfury

gg bro

good luck

[wintry solar]

Rouge

[vivid vessel]

-10% damage prolly

big L bud

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[molten oasis]

Yep kinda need it hey

[vivid vessel]

6%

holy shmokerino

imagine trying to play outlaw without skyfury

might aswell log off

[wintry solar]

I've been waiting for this mythical wall of Solo text.

[gaunt phoenix]

full stop, challenging or trying to police folks who disagree with you is how you're gonna get the boot. complaining is fine, that's your freedom, but instantly shitting on any positivity is not gonna fly, and there won't be another warning

[vivid vessel]

that all ?

bro a slow typer

[wintry solar]

I got a pocket shaman, it's okay.

[mighty pivot]

[vivid vessel]

you need a new keyboard solo or what

[mighty pivot]

why was zac talking to this second account?

[wintry solar]

He got board

[wintry solar]

Did you see my wordle in 3?

[gaunt phoenix]

i'm not at a keyboard

[vivid vessel]

bro typing of his fridge

[wintry solar]

Swipe to text

[gaunt phoenix]

I backtracked from just sending the boot

[wintry solar]

Damn

You sure?

[vivid vessel]

there can be only one zac in this discord

ban him

[wintry solar]

2 votes already

[vivid vessel]

your vote doesnt count popo

popo = poop

remmeber

[shell fossil]

highlander rules

[wintry solar]

I have seniority

As I am a booner

Boomer

[mighty pivot]

yes you did the opposite of me and started hitting letters like crazy

[wintry solar]

I'm the best at word games wcis

[mighty pivot]

https://giphy.com/gifs/tom-hiddleston-loki-frigga-yJ1KSiTxaAw5G

3 votes

[pure folio]

his 434 messages in the past month are all crying, how.. enjoyable..

[wintry solar]

Exactly 15 days

Btw

[vivid vessel]

wtf its 10am

i need to go to sleep

[frail veldt]

Bro what

[mighty pivot]

noob didn't sleep at night

[frail veldt]

I thought you were a working professional zac

[vivid vessel]

not rn

[gaunt phoenix]

I dont remember the last boot that was not a compromised account or ban evasion

[mighty pivot]

they replaced him for playing outlaw

[frail veldt]

Damn during pre patch that's bad timing

[frail veldt]

Somnius?

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe

[pure folio]

I remember that one haste outlaw person, i dont remember his name now

[mighty pivot]

heresy

[frail veldt]

Ryu the legend

[pure folio]

RYU

[vivid vessel]

moot

[pure folio]

LMAO

ryukage

yes

[frail veldt]

No one could ever do it like ryu

[mighty pivot]

moot wasn't banned by solo

[frail veldt]

Moot was banned???

[pure folio]

What happened to him?

[frail veldt]

I thought he was just dumb what'd he end up doing

[wintry solar]

I noticed the air has been different

[mighty pivot]

wdym he was ragebaiting 24/7

[vivid vessel]

he was muted for a week

[frail veldt]

I mean so does popo

[vivid vessel]

but idk

its been like

2 weeks now

havent seen him

i think maybe he got permaed

i hope

only solo could tell us

[mighty pivot]

maybe he's reformed now, zac. Like you

[vivid vessel]

solooo

tell us

[frail veldt]

Reformed Zac is such a different person

Hard to even recognize him

[vivid vessel]

i know right

[gaunt phoenix]

moot was mooted the same day zach joined

[pure folio]

nah hes still in here, u can ping him

[vivid vessel]

ye but was he permaed

[frail veldt]

Ooooooooooo

[gaunt phoenix]

I dont think so

[vivid vessel]

what its not the same guy

lol

they are way different

[wintry solar]

Could be an alt tho

[vivid vessel]

zach is just a hater

[frail veldt]

They are very different

[vivid vessel]

moot is a dumbass perma ragebaiting

i fucking hate moot

[frail veldt]

Tell us how you really feel

[vivid vessel]

i just did

what more do you need

[wintry solar]

Moot couldn't have a seperate personality yeah

[vivid vessel]

imma watch zootopia 2 i think

brb

[frail veldt]

I thought you needed to sleep

[vivid vessel]

ye well

its too late for that now

i will sleep later

after zootopia

[wintry solar]

The bed to zootopia 2 pipeline has to be studied

Stu died

Poor stu

[frail veldt]

Zootopia 2 in bed 😉

[mighty pivot]

it's just a comfort pick for furries

[wintry solar]

You'd know

[mighty pivot]

exactly

[wintry solar]

A twink AND a furry?? What can't Ninjarobot do?

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

bro solo

waht does this emote even mean

[frail veldt]

Wouldn't you like to know

[mighty pivot]

zac's not cultured enough

[sly bone]

isnt that what happens when someone has a headset on too long?

[frail veldt]

Go watch zootopia and find out

[wintry solar]

Too long the wrong way maybe

[gaunt phoenix]

it means

[vivid vessel]

[mighty pivot]

zac needs private lessons on japanese puns

[wintry solar]

Check off topic

[mighty pivot]

ye bro that word was bs

I got it in 5 instead of 3 because it was 1 letter guess out of 4 or something

[wintry solar]

I could've had it in 3 but I had to be a fat fuckin greasy loser

[gaunt phoenix]

naruhodo is like "i see"

[sharp meteor]

Hey gang, I have a fairly dumb question but not sure specifically what the answer is. As im doing my rotation quite frequently I'd have BTE up but on 5 cp. in this scenario do you ss 1 more time before using BTE so you have at least 6 combo points? or do you send it on 5?

[cinder haven]

Why is preparation not resetting kir?

[gaunt phoenix]

"I see" but with a bit dented confused expression

[vivid vessel]

why is preparation an outlaw talent

[cinder haven]

Also a good question

[mighty pivot]

it's also a cat, and nya is a cat sound in japanese

[gaunt phoenix]

You build to 6

[molten oasis]

Yesh okey intrsitng

[shell fossil]

resets the 5 minute cd on sprint

[mighty pivot]

doesn't that change for the aceless build?

[gaunt phoenix]

and yes cat

maybe

[shell fossil]

for when auto walk isn't enough lol

[sharp meteor]

Thank you

[wintry solar]

Is there really an aceless build?

[gaunt phoenix]

Sort of

[mighty pivot]

it's pinned, buddy

[gaunt phoenix]

I put ace back in there

it is barely ahead of sleight

With no gear

[mighty pivot]

how much is barely? 0.3%?

[gaunt phoenix]

pretty much

also we dont really know what sleight is doing

[mighty pivot]

yup

[vivid vessel]

ok i got bored of zootopia

i go sleep

[mighty pivot]

is this where I complain about the dev not telling us how these things work either in the tooltip or in a blue post/here?

[shell fossil]

ye the intro is turned up to 11 i only got through the first 15-20 minutes

[gaunt phoenix]

The dev who made it is probably rotated out to work on devourer anyway

[mighty pivot]

imagine if you showed that information in game, in the expansion that should make things more clear to the players

[wintry solar]

That makes too much sense

[mighty pivot]

tbh devourer will see more players

[vivid vessel]

lil bro internship only lasted 2 weeks so

not much time to rework outlaw

i think he did a good job considering the time he had

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[cinder haven]

So what is most important to do correctly with current version of outlaw to do good damage?

[vivid vessel]

idk

press buttons

its litteraly impossible to fuck up

[mighty pivot]

gear enough haste to have energy to press buttons

[cinder haven]

Be in melee range?

[gaunt phoenix]

Dont bte at 5

[shell fossil]

dispatch goes at 5

[cinder haven]

If fb I guess

[wintry solar]

Getting over muscle memory of BTEing after the reset sound

[shell fossil]

aw got them mixed up again

[gaunt phoenix]

For trickster especially if you finish at 5 repeatedly you basically get stuck at 5

and it ends up being a rather large loss

[vivid vessel]

yes i love pressing a builder at 5cp and wasting 5 entire cp

[mighty pivot]

in ST only

[gaunt phoenix]

Ye

[vivid vessel]

imagine if ace could give us back 5cp

the technology

[mighty pivot]

they should make ace 3 points yesyes

[gaunt phoenix]

Gravedigger

What

[vivid vessel]

cool shit lil buddy

[wintry solar]

Just had to get that off his chest IG lol

[vivid vessel]

just perma him his pfp is ugly

[molten oasis]

Okey real talk is outlaw actually that down bad compared to the other 2

[cinder haven]

So who’s maining outlaw in s1?

[wintry solar]

Me

[vivid vessel]

i know one guy who wont

[wintry solar]

Zeross?

[molten oasis]

Rip

[cinder haven]

Only one guy

[gloomy coral]

!ban @gentle wind o7

[gaunt phoenix]

[mighty pivot]

ty koffing

[wintry solar]

Everyone here either quit or alts it

Fake fans

Guy plays the best rogue spec

[cinder haven]

Or maybe they want to have fun

[mighty pivot]

zac was a fake fan for not progging dimmy as outlaw

[shell fossil]

depends if a sword/mace etc drops tbh

[wintry solar]

Real

It's the outlaw way

[wintry solar]

Or dagger

Now that its actually fr better

[shell fossil]

bind o say "jackpot let's ride"

[mighty pivot]

there is a dagger from the 2nd boss

[wintry solar]

Damn

[shell fossil]

wait what dagger outlaw works now

[wintry solar]

It's just gonna be me and guy in #outlaw playing patty cake

[mighty pivot]

and a fist from NK 2.0 electric boogaloo

[gaunt phoenix]

My cat is so soft

[wintry solar]

!OH

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.

It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.

[mighty pivot]

mine's softer

[gaunt phoenix]

She's not real

[wintry solar]

My mom got 2 cats

[cinder haven]

1% !

But my mog?

[mighty pivot]

1% is more than what most our talents do

you can mog whatever now tob

[cinder haven]

Phew

[smoky lotus]

Hunter weapon?

[cinder haven]

Good change

[mighty pivot]

maybe the best change of midnight

[wintry solar]

No, the best change was

Uh

[cinder haven]

Uh

[wintry solar]

I'm thinking

[mighty pivot]

ace and HH becoming 2 pointers

[wintry solar]

So, Stinky

That's bad

[gaunt phoenix]

House

[mighty pivot]

house is good

[wintry solar]

House is good

Changing mogs on the fly

Best change

[mighty pivot]

maybe the real outlaw dev is working on housing, and in 12.1 the spec will be significantly better

[wintry solar]

13.0

When borrowed power comes back

Watch

Calling it now

It's gonna be like shadowlands but how it should've been from the start

[cinder haven]

I remember that everyone said that surely the initial talent tree for outlaw would be reworked so we could actually take utility

[wintry solar]

Idr saying that

[smoky lotus]

I wish we had borrowed power so these terrible hero talents could've stayed behind

[cinder haven]

The only real change since the initial drop is the addition of prep?

[mighty pivot]

will dreadblades also return popo?

[mighty pivot]

yes but tha't all the changes outlaw got tbh

[wintry solar]

As God as my witness, I will do everything in my power for Dreadblades to make a triumphant return in some form

Besides being a passive

[cinder haven]

What’s so good about dreadblades

[wintry solar]

Idk how that'd work but I'm sure blizz would find a way

[cinder haven]

I really don’t get it

[wintry solar]

Builder spend builder

Faster CDR

Idk

[smoky lotus]

Sub has dreadblades

[cinder haven]

Ye

[wintry solar]

Sub stole a lot of stuff from us

And is why they're below us

[cinder haven]

Does sub still stack vers?

Or did they get fucked by haste tax too?

[wintry solar]

Haste tax too I'm pretty sure

This all started back in SL btw

When they redid pvp talents and gave sub and assa disarm

Been downhill since

[mighty pivot]

sub still likes vers

[wintry solar]

You still like vers

[mighty pivot]

yes

[wintry solar]

[river wing]

looks like I'm gonna go 'law now, assa was tolerable in ST and fun in AoE in TWW, but 40 APM is going to kill my brain in two weeks so pistols it is

[civic meteor]

imagine waiting for energy pool for the new apex talents pressing no buttons for like 10 secs 😄

[river wing]

I am legit unsure how that's supposed to work since any worthwhile Envenom lasts for 5 seconds, so you probably just build while waiting for it to fall off and then actually do wait for 5+ seconds

[cinder haven]

Why not sub?

[civic meteor]

build to max cps, wait for 250 energy and then send back to back env until you cannot finish anymore

rinse and repeat

[river wing]

not my cup of tea, also 2 buttons 90% of the time is going to kill my brain even faster than Assa

[cinder haven]

I’m still probably sitting out s1, but if I play it I don’t think it’ll be rogue at all sau

[mighty pivot]

play UHDK like popo

[cinder haven]

Havoc maybe

[river wing]

my main options are Outlaw and Arms rn, if I go back to Assa it's admitting defeat, if I go Sub it's 146% trash balancing where all three aforementioned just don't fucking work, if all of that fails I'm probably quitting or trying out Fury as a super-secret-last-resort kind of thing

[pastel pendant]

Bro try out fury it’s actually pretty fun and high apm

Outlaw is fun when u have adr up but thats only like 30% of the time now so that killed the spec for me it’s not nearly as fast anymore.

[wintry solar]

And blood

Just in case

[pastel pendant]

Fury has a lot of passives to increase haste and feels faster to me than outlaw rn, but that could be becuz I have more haste on my war

[oblique trench]

yeah, since i play wow i play fury or law

currently i pref fury, but will play law in raid since we already got warriors

[pastel pendant]

U could play arms, it’s basically unchanged from TWW. It’s still fun to play it’s just rly badly tuned and not nearly as good as fury.

[pastel pendant]

Now b4 this patch I much preferred outlaw rogue. It was the fastest cracked out spec in the game. Now fury war is more fun to me, becuz it’s basically the same from TWW. Yes it easy but so is outlaw too. The difference is fury is actually fun and ur buttons feel satisfying to press. Execute and rampage feel so good to press imo. But beforehand I would 100% say outlaw was way more fun just now it’s different since it’s gutted

[oblique trench]

yeah if we get more adr if would be better

[pastel pendant]

Yeah exactly, before you had adr 80+% of the time. Constantly in ur vanish windows back to back bte.

None of that anymore so why even bother. Just lost all its fun

And what’s even crazier is they reduced the duration of adr to 15 sec, when prior it was 20. So now not only is there no way to extend it, the duration is reduced by 5 seconds lmao, just to slap us in the face

[wintry solar]

100%

[normal forge]

nerfs nerfs nerfs

[wintry solar]

I see the vision, just wish they'd finish iterating upon it 💀

Or start rather

[mighty pivot]

popo is seeing visions

[inland acorn]

Bold assumption, that there is/was any vision

[wintry solar]

Changes you dont like doesn't mean there's not a vision

[inland acorn]

Feel free to tell me what's the vision then, outside of afk auto attacking

[fossil lintel]

Every time a class had close to 100% uptime on a major cooldown depending on uptime it was removed before, like legion voidform, SL icy veins and breath of sindragosa.
We knew 100% uptime on AR was going away eventually.

[wintry solar]

They already told us

Clear as day

[inland acorn]

They also said, that addon pruning will be long process

?

And then went ahead and just dropped the bomb

[wintry solar]

I'm talking explicitly about outlaw

[wintry solar]

I'm actually surprised it stayed as long as it did

[fossil lintel]

Same, I think only breath lasted this long?

[wintry solar]

Yeah breath lasted a while

People hated it then too I'm pretty sure

Actually it was decently split

[fossil lintel]

Yep, it's always hated, there's inherent issues with it.

I remember playing legion SP and if you got any mechanic on you past your torrent you did zero damage for a minute

SL frost mage was also a bit tight on ST to get the reset, and you got mega punished if you lost it early due to mechanics because it would only CDR during icy veins

Some uptime addicts like us love it, but it's hated by the majority of players so it always end up removed

[inland acorn]

Why is that a problem though, it's fine if some specs are unique and have high uptime on cds

It's not like our ADR uptime made us do bilions of dmg

[fossil lintel]

It promotes degenerate gameplay (not doing mechanics correctly in favor of uptime), and in the end the classes all try to appeal to a majority of players not a minority

Yeah, none of these mechanics were broken when they were around, the class ends up tuned around it

[normal forge]

good point

[fossil lintel]

Because if casual Timmy wants to play a rogue with swords and guns, it can't just feel like complete shit because he can't keep up adr 100% of the time

And there's 20 casual Timmys who want to play rogue with swords and guns for each one of us who like adr uptime

[unkempt dew]

So how big are the nerfs we got?

[normal forge]

idk, zac said we were below tank dmg

[lucid stirrup]

healer dmg pog

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[wintry solar]

Hi pilates

[hasty warren]

yo popo

[shell fossil]

i usually hear timmys in a eft or 40k context i.e cease timmy before we lather you in honey and drop you onto catechan deathworl

but yeah uptime chasing kills the raid literally 200 pulls/201

but when gear isn't maxed it's kinda what you have to do

[normal forge]

dude, ppl in the sub spec channel is so comfortable with their spec that they have time to talk wow housing

[wintry solar]

That could be us

[normal forge]

i would like that

[unkempt dew]

Well if the tank is above most dps specs I’m happy hehe

[lucid stirrup]

ahhhh good old Twilight Devastation times during Ny'alotha

topping meters as BDK

[tender breach]

"Use finishers at 6+ CPs, but as Fatebound, Dispatch should be used at 5+ CPs" if it goes 6CP its a great dps loss or what?

the dispatch I mean

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not a big deal

[snow stratus]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[river wing]

because eventually it's tuned around 100% uptime and if you actually try and do mechanics, your damage will suffer for no real reason, but even if you play your hardest and maintain uptime, you just get "the expected result"
tale as old as time

[inland acorn]

Isn't this fine though, as the tradeoff that you have higher uptime on cds than other specs, so technically you do more dmg, while others are waiting for cds, so it evens out ?

[radiant wyvern]

no

because they tune your dmg around always having cds

so your buffed CD dmg is just normal dmg

[pastel pendant]

they rly needed to add something to spice up the rotation becuz now its just lost all its depth

they went the route of trying to appeal to the broader audience but all they did was stripped out something that was difficult to learn but rewarding once u got it to just generic boring gameplay

if ur gonna move away from high adr uptime and using vanish offensively, then add something else thats easier to learn but still adds to the core rotation to make it at least a little more interesting

[wintry solar]

You're lucky we got Ace resets

[covert kestrel]

Well one thought process is that with all specs stripped back they can start building them back up in more interesting ways from this new "baseline" but that could just be copium

[wintry solar]

They've done it everytime they cut back on abilities so it's really not that far-fetched

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-dog-scared-driving-speed-gif-17175923473683955109

[wintry solar]

Growing pains frfr

[river wing]

no, it doesn't, because you're both tuned around having full usage of your CDs, but they can use their CD downtime to do stuff and only pop when they wouldn't suffer downtime, and you can't because the tuning is for you to have 100% uptime and never lose your uptime-enabled permanent CDs, like AR used to be

in short
the tuning is for both of you to get 100 pts in 100 seconds
you have to get 1 point every second and don't get points when doing mechanics
the burst spec gets 0.5 of a point every second and don't get points when doing mechanics, but can burst once to instead get 10 points per second for 6 seconds

you have 0 seconds of available downtime, they have 20 seconds

that's how it ends up being, every time, with a spec that relies on constant CD uptime rolling

[proven ocean]

Holy yap

[lone spear]

the damage loss was never my biggest gripe

its that when AR dropped u were playing half a spec

tho now we always playing 3/5ths of a spec so it is what it is

[river wing]

ngl every Rogue spec right now is at best 3/5ths of a spec anyway, purely gameplay-wise

[inland acorn]

I don't think we were losing that much when AR dropped though, like sure it definietly was a dps loss (and spec felt like ass), but usually it was short

You make it sound like we did 0 dps outside of ADR

[river wing]

it's an example to make a point about how tuning ends up functioning

[inland acorn]

Yeah I get that

And it also can differ depending on how the CD operates, like for us it's ADR so GCD + energy

For DKs breath it was just pure dmg

etc.

[river wing]

if they ever do it in a different way, then the flat damage spec ends up dominating on uptime-heavy fights almost automatically

[normal forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[river wing]

but yes, I think Breath had survived this long because it was just damage rather than making the gameplay work

meanwhile out of ADR you were basically crippled

[hasty warren]

Is the Northensky addon better than MRT or it's the same thing ?

[inland acorn]

I think it's kinda same thing, but functions might differ

At least from what I've seen with a quick glance

[hasty warren]

I saw ppl replacing mrt for it but idk if it's only for testing or because it's a better alternativ

[inland acorn]

it's definitely interesting to explore, especially since it has stuff like moving private aura and adding sound to it, which I don't think MRT has ?

But other than that, I think both are trying to achieve kinda same thing

Just execution might be different

[wintry solar]

What do you think of the conversations in the former outlaw channel?

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/stephenvlog-kepler-cat-astronocat-stephengif-gif-13257175

[wise finch]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• EasyReminders - can show poison reminders outside of instances

[untold wadi]

!wang

!wb

!wangbar

[proven ocean]

Wdym former

Like midnight outlaw or

[unborn pecan]

hello, new to rogue. Is vanish used rotationally? icy veins tells to use vanish + ambush on cooldown, while its not even mentioned on wowhead

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not used anymore

[unborn pecan]

is icy veins guide outdated/wrong?

[gaunt phoenix]

there are usually random quirks with guides especially during a transitory period like now

i have not reviewed icyveins myself

[copper radish]

https://x.com/marcelianflame/status/2019313902178197745?s=46&t=YKaisWqFkCTf8y-DfuEaHw

Marcelian & Flame (@MarcelianFlame)

In our new Tier List of the day, we have ranked ALL of the Melee DPS in World of Warcraft Midnight

X · Feb 5, 2026, 7:35 AM

We are so back

[gaunt phoenix]

#outlaw-faq is my guide, wowhead should more or less reflect it as well

[untold wadi]

yay

i <3 tier list

[ionic citrus]

On trickster we actually finish with 6cp. Will the apex change this?

Will we go Fatebound because of this?

[gaunt phoenix]

Trickster will still finish at 6cps

[ionic citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-believe-you-whatever-lies-gif-3602502

[gaunt phoenix]

5cps just happens to win for fatebound cuz of coin flipping

[ionic citrus]

yeah i know

but becomes a double gain

because of apex I just wanted to know if worth it

I'm not on beta.

[gaunt phoenix]

Fatebound is mildly ahead on beta

[ionic citrus]

God hear you.

[gaunt phoenix]

I prob wouldn't say it is specifically because of this talent though

[ionic citrus]

Fatebound is fun af.

[white marten]

I finish way sooner than that

Im sorry. That was uncalled for

[gaunt phoenix]

i forgive you

[ionic citrus]

somehow i don't doubt that

[glass mortar]

i dont

[ionic citrus]

Imma update beta and Check this.

[copper radish]

Twitter says so it must be true 😂

[untold wadi]

jim from the office

[upper hawk]

feral just removed. seems about right

[exotic gale]

isnt this dude doing +10s and heroic raid? everything is s tier for that

[upper hawk]

i hate that take. not everyone is good. if the max they can do is +10's there will still be specs that are better than others

[covert kestrel]

Excuse me this is very relevant to my push +8s my team and I are planning to do, that third affix gets tricky

[sullen nimbus]

This is so bad lol

[untold wadi]

yea but spec viability varies across the content spectrum

[copper radish]

All I see is outlaw S tier ima believe it with all my heart

[copper radish]

🤷‍♂️

[upper hawk]

wokka wokka. that doesn't change my point when you say "all you do is heroic raid? then every spec is exactly the same for you" is unhelpful and condescending

[glass mortar]

good if you only do that level of content u deserve condescention 😠

(kidding)

we are taking this tier list very seriously this morning or its just a slow morning for yapping

[upper hawk]

it's a slow 9 weeks. is prepatch over yet?

[covert kestrel]

If it's either unhelpful or condescending or you end up with badly perceived specs not getting invited to +10s, I'd rather take the former

[fossil lintel]

Hey, we S tier? Incoming 10% aura nerf and -5% bf damage

[vapid sundial]

I mean the truth is unless you're pushing or hof raiding what you play doesn't matter

People just refuse to accept that

And meta slave while being bottom 15%

Even then

Zac and others have shown you can get title on outlaw even when it's bad

Dumpster baby diaper shit spec

[covert kestrel]

Right I agree, just the person above saying that tier lists do matter for heroic/+10s +12s which in some sense they do but propagating that fact results in more toxicity to the bottom perceived specs

[vapid sundial]

If a raid invites off a tier list I don't want to be in there anyway

Tbh

[west ridge]

i think the correct take is at that level its probably more fruitful to spend like 1 hour a day learning to min max the class then to take your opinion off of a tier list

perfect fundamentals then worry about the cherry on top

[solemn vessel]

wasnt this a "fun to play and how it feels" tierlist

[glass mortar]

more fruitful to spend 1 millisecond a day learning to min max a class then it is to go off tier lists

tier lists exist to meme and be memed and we all love some slop content but they should basically never be taken seriously

[solemn vessel]

i rather take someone who knows there class than FOTM

[dawn talon]

i dont mean to be disrespectful but if thats the most they can handle they arent playing any spec well enough that it matters and they would play best by having more fun and paying more attention as a result

[keen belfry]

Yeah tierlists/power level aren’t usually based off the floor of specs, which is probably the most important thing for most casual players when talking about output

[covert kestrel]

I question anyone who puts current sub in S tier fun to play

[vapid sundial]

Well

They're making a tier list

That's all you need to know

[covert kestrel]

Oh wait sub is always s tier cause it starts with S

[solemn vessel]

as a sub main since SL sub will always be fun

[vapid sundial]

Me counting my finishers

Me when I don't proc and get one less finisher

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-smash-mad-smack-gif-16993893

[west ridge]

id rather take someone that knows their fotm class

basically there are levels to all of this

[solemn vessel]

this is true but im speaking as someone who just jumps to the new "what better atm"

[keen belfry]

hey guys just had perma 100% jackpot uptime over 4 mins on dummies AMA

[jolly geyser]

was it poggers?

[covert kestrel]

If your jackpot lasts for more than 4 mins, please see a doctor

[keen belfry]

was still boring but i had cool jackpot!

[neat heart]

ok so we're gonna make a cool pirate rogue spec, laid back, care free, a real debonair / swashbuckler

and we're ALSO gonna make it the most PEDANTIC, HARD, HIGH APM, TECHNICAL CLASS, IN THE FUCKING GAME????????????????????????????

why did they do this

[cinder relic]

I wouldn't say it's a lot of that anymore

[neat heart]

why isnt it a coin flip epic rng class, why is it a theory crafting spec

[cinder relic]

It's just high apm

[jolly geyser]

buttons needed to be hit and stuff

[neat heart]

there should be a builder, spender AND a 5 second GCD, where I roll dice, if I get 6 i one shot and if i get 1 i do less damage

that should be the entire spec

[modest violet]

anyone had any luck with a simple fall through macro that'll cast between the eyes if it's available, and otherwise cast dispatch?

i want to have both on my main finisher button

[copper radish]

Probably. S tier all the way anyway possible

[neat heart]

doesnt high apm hurt ur guys's hands

🙁

[jolly geyser]

I should play my warr before release,get some gear

[mighty pivot]

yes but that's why I play with my feet

[glass mortar]

live outlaw is like a soft warm hand massage therapy session compared to what we've been playing for 2-3 years

so no

but if ur new to it its not uncommon

[civic meadow]

have u ever progged a tier as fire mage or outlaw in the last few expansions

Its much better now

[neat heart]

no i pvp and do bg blitz, i try to learn a rotation for 12 minutes, 1 shot someone and maybe cc

get an elite set and reroll

[jolly geyser]

joined today

[neat heart]

my damage went up by like 40% on my hunter when i did SBM in m+

[neat heart]

SBA*

if sba was good on rogue it would probably triple my damage

[keen belfry]

leaf!

[gaunt phoenix]

you might be the first person to complain here that midnight outlaw has too much going on

usually it is the polar opposite

[keen belfry]

kinda respect it no cap

[mighty pivot]

|| who do you think it is?||

[neat heart]

thank you :3

[keen belfry]

now pizza

imagine if u had played this spec like 5 weeks ago

[neat heart]

i tried a bit in TWW, it was legitimately the hardest spec ive ever played by a mile

pvp healing on pres was easier than a PVE outlaw rotation for me

[jolly geyser]

||your mom||

idk

[frail veldt]

whats SBM?

[neat heart]

meant to say sba

[frail veldt]

what is that

lol

[cinder relic]

meant to say HNO

[frail veldt]

Rofl

[gaunt phoenix]

shadowmoon burial mgrounds

[neat heart]

single button assitant

[mighty pivot]

nah she's a noob

[neat heart]

@frail veldt its 1 button rotation

on MM its insanely good for most players

[snow viper]

Pretty sure the highlighted assist is like spot on with actual play on this spec. Just use that

[frail veldt]

OOH OBR

[snow viper]

1 button will always suck because of the gcd increase

[neat heart]

its good for most players imo

[frail veldt]

Nah t was actually good for a lot of specs

Destro obr was only a 9% penalty from the sim

[neat heart]

in pvp, you can hit around 2200+ in arenas with it for shuffle

and good enough for some m+

[frail veldt]

And most players barely perform at like 70% of the sim

[glass mortar]

isnt it not that behind for sin now too

[snow viper]

Ya but highlighted was like what 2% or something like that

[frail veldt]

Blizzard also said in one of their posts that obr performs "above average" already lol

[fossil lintel]

Damn

[frail veldt]

Yeah probably but those players aren't gonna do highlighted perfectly

[neat heart]

in pvp its cool for alts because you can focus on getting off insane cc

[snow viper]

Fair point

[neat heart]

the highlights visually are hard for me idk why

[mighty pivot]

[frail veldt]

there you go haha

point proven

[fossil lintel]

Oh look, didn't take even 24 hours for one to show up

[snow viper]

I think the average comment from blizzard is hilarious and accurate. If you raid CE and ever set foot into a normal pug......the question of whether or not AI will take over the human race gets answered real quick.

[frail veldt]

I do wonder how many of them there really are

cuz outlaw has been in a friendly state in the past

but it didnt have a big population then either

[cinder relic]

This entire topic isn't that deep I feel

Midnights goals were to simply specs, less complexity, less obtuse rules

Changing crackshot wasn't to "make rogue more popular" in a vacuum

[fossil lintel]

Rogue isn't that popular of a fantasy yeah

[cinder relic]

It's in line with the broader design goals of the expansion

You can disagree

But mulling over "Well it wasn't popular before so whats the point" isn't getting to the actual root of things

[fossil lintel]

But outlaw has likely the most appealing fantasy of rogue for a casual playerbase

[cinder relic]

Outlaw for a majority of its life was a simple builder spender spec

[fossil lintel]

We have a pistol, that alone is enough to make half of America love it

[cinder relic]

I don't think its that crazy to go back to basics in a sense

Now you can say, these design goals are a waste of time

Thats sort of just a perspective thing

But me, personally, in in TWW and even later DF, it felt like a lot of classes had a lot of "dumb stuff" to monitor

Dumb stuff is subjective but

[glass mortar]

really i feel like the pirate esque pistol fantasy is way more narrow and unique then the "thief" dagger backstabby type fantasy

just me experience with ddo/mmo players in general tho

[snow viper]

Eh as much as I appreciate complexity, I'm older than I once was.

Fingers aren't what they used to be

[fossil lintel]

We don't have a real thief spec, it's either edgy anime protag with shadow clones or alchemist gone rogue

[glass mortar]

sure it feels like there is no generic assassin that just does the big stabs in the back. that was sub before it went full ninja theme

most of this would be fixed with glyphs anyway

since its almost all flavor wants

[snow viper]

Pirate is just a thief with a beard

[glass mortar]

not that blizzard remembers those exist

[river wing]

gr8 b8 m8

[neat heart]

thats a real thought

if outlaw was designed in vanilla it would do that

[fossil lintel]

Outlaw is the thief spec though, highway bandit with swords and guns

[glass mortar]

they are all thief specs

its a thief class

[fossil lintel]

Just we inherited a lot of combat rogue

[river wing]

p sure if it wasn't for combat legacy
it'd just be ranged rogue

guns/crossbows

[snow viper]

Where's my pickpocket ability

[glass mortar]

?

[river wing]

it's...literally there

[glass mortar]

it hasnt been pruned as far as im aware?

all 3 rogue specs still have pickpocket

[snow viper]

Shhhh

[fossil lintel]

Someone stole their pickpocket skill

[glass mortar]

pickpocket rotationally when

[snow viper]

It's not on the obr, duuuuuh

[floral niche]

Yee-haalaw

Coming back to rogue from a break since WOTLK, I think outlaw looks fun ish

I just cant decide if I should play assa, or bet the farm on outlaw reign supreme

[frail veldt]

it was to make the game more popular

[inland acorn]

Betting on outlaw being supreme is definitely a gamble worthy of outlaws

[frail veldt]

including rogue haha

they want to bring more players in theyve explicitly said so

[fossil lintel]

It was to make it more approachable

[floral niche]

The OG wow class was never mage, its always been rog

[frail veldt]

yes so more people approach the game

haha

[fossil lintel]

They want an entry point to welcome back the classic crowd, luckly they picked fire mage to do that

[frail veldt]

yeah their goal is more new players

[jolly geyser]

paladin,mage and warr. What I thought of when I saw wow first

[floral niche]

[glass mortar]

mages definitly felt like the iconic mc of classic

back when i started playing anyway

[jolly geyser]

then lock but then I ended up maining rogue

[glass mortar]

my first character was a druid

[fossil lintel]

Warrior is the MC of classic

[jolly geyser]

now I got rog,pala and warr. Just need a lock and mage now ig

[floral niche]

I have three pvp movies from vanilla anno 2005 that I am not proud of

Cold blood ambushing sitting mages

[glass mortar]

rogue was the iconic MC griefer of classic

and probably all of wow history tbh

[fossil lintel]

Bro made world of roguecraft

[glass mortar]

[cinder relic]

Do you understand there is a difference between trying to appeal to more players BROADLY and trying to make ONE specific spec mroe appealing

Crackshot/UHUH wasn't changed IN A VACUUM to make rogue go from the least popular, to the most popular

[floral niche]

Thats exactly why they did what they did to addons btw

[frail veldt]

bro its both

[floral niche]

Catering to 99% and not 1%

[frail veldt]

a rising tide lifts all ships

they applied the same design philosophy to all classes

its an overarching goal to make the game more approachable so more new players come in

[fossil lintel]

They want to appeal to more people broadly, but they also want the specs to be approachable by the new players

[frail veldt]

idk where you think I implied this

[floral niche]

You dont make a class popular purely for a skill/esthetic, but it sure helps sell GPUs

[pure folio]

Both will make you question why rogues even exist

[crimson arch]

did this macro get banned from blizzard? I get an error message every time i use it.. /clearfocus
/focus [@mouseover]
/script index = GetRaidTargetIndex("mouseover")
/script if (index==nil) then SetRaidTarget("mouseover",7); end;

[frail veldt]

If you are saying these rogue changes didnt have the intention to make rogue more approachable then idk what to tell you

[pure folio]

Choosing between homelessness and poverty

[floral niche]

So youre saying theres a chance

[gaunt phoenix]

what does the error say

[crimson arch]

ForceTaint_Strong has been blocked

[floral niche]

Am i looking at this as sub is the way to go @pure folio

[pure folio]

If you want to fall asleep, yes

On a real note, I think outlaw is looking the best

[jolly geyser]

nah,chill. Can look at at stuff on 2 monitor

[pure folio]

Even if it feels bad at times and is essentially just filler rotation

[floral niche]

Super

[fossil lintel]

I don't think add-ons can read the markers anymore during combat

It's likely a secret

[crimson arch]

i dont think the macro used an addon. It just sets a marker on my focus target

[frail veldt]

GetRaidTargetIndex

I think that part might be what got disabled?

[fossil lintel]

Yep

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/API_GetRaidTargetIndex

[crimson arch]

ah ye

[fossil lintel]

You're using /script which invokes the same lua APIs available for addons

[frail veldt]

you can just take that line out

the only problem is then you will overwrite other peoples marks

but thats just something you have to live with sadly

[fossil lintel]

Also need to remove the if

[frail veldt]

/script SetRaidTarget("mouseover",7);```

[crimson arch]

ye i tried that

it types it in /s like that

[frail veldt]

fixed it

try adding /script

[fossil lintel]

Remove the end

[inland acorn]

shouldn't it be /run ?

[fossil lintel]

I think you can also remove the ;

[crimson arch]

/script gets an error again

/run is also blocked i think 😄

[inland acorn]

[frail veldt]

sick

[fossil lintel]

Is it the same error?

[crimson arch]

yes

[fossil lintel]

Well try just /tm [@mouseover] 7 then

[inland acorn]

yeah, setRaidTarget() is protected

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, and if you don't have the condition anyway can just use the macro command

Unless they removed it

[crimson arch]

ye true i just us it like this

ty guys

[subtle cedar]

Quick question if there is more than 2 mobs and bf is already active do we still bf for generation or SS instead ?

[gaunt phoenix]

you ss at 2-3 targets

You generate with bf at 4 targets

[night glacier]

hi guys ive been trying to know how to play outlaw and not sure why i dont do damage and i saw people who have done so much could someone help

[subtle cedar]

SS is last option on +4 then I guess ?

[gaunt phoenix]

the priority

[subtle cedar]

if there is PS procs or BF you cast that instead

ye but this is not on builders section that confused me 😄

got it now thank you

[gaunt phoenix]

the #outlaw-faq has rotation information and talks about some key concepts of outlaw, though it assumes a cursory understanding

kind of hard to just guess what you are doing wrong from nothing

Remember you're not a burst cooldown spec

you shouldnt be holding adrenaline rush, you need it for loaded dice and to get it on cooldown asap

ofc you dont slam it on the last 2% health of a mob pack

[night glacier]

its been a couple of days trying and doing dugs and read that all but still cant damagte

[gaunt phoenix]

Make sure your buff tracker has roll the bones, blade flurry, adrenaline rush, opportunity (the pistol shot proc), loaded dice, slice and dice

[night glacier]

is outlaw really good right know in mplus

[gaunt phoenix]

at the core you are just constantly deciding what combo point builders and spenders to use, and not losing cooldown reduction on cds, maintaining blade flurry in aoe

[pure echo]

Is there anyway with base UI to make sound alerts for different RtB buffs?

If it’s not possible, are addons able to do it?

[inland meteor]

i think beta cdm can add sound alterts to buffs? not sure tho

[gaunt phoenix]

it can but im not sure you can distinguish different rtb buffs

[night glacier]

ok thank u

[loud hazel]

helo

how bs is olaw doing in ptr?

[gaunt phoenix]

Outlaw ate a fat nerf cause apparently the last buff was a mistake

[loud hazel]

what was the buff

[gaunt phoenix]

just aura tuning

[loud hazel]

tell my it was a good one

oh

dmg values

[icy niche]

So, the latest changes, were they considered a wash, or a buff / nerf? Can't really get a grasp of numbers for the changes really

[glass mortar]

it was a nerf

[fathom bramble]

the last raid test was done with the bug fixed and the buffs in place

it's simply a nerf from the most recently available gameplay data

if you look further back it could be seen as a wash in some sense since we got the bug fixed and the buff reverted

but if you were using the most recent raid test to guess how good specs would be outlaw is strictly considerably nerfed compared to that test

[gaunt phoenix]

i've yet to see a recent M+ log where outlaw did all that well

[fathom bramble]

there is also that

even with the buff in place we seemingly weren't good in keys

[icy niche]

Was kinda excited to try out outlaw then I saw dk's getting even more buffs and outlaw got wha looked like nerfs and I was sad in pants

[fathom bramble]

and are now worse

[civic zephyr]

been messing around with outlaw a bit, does the hesitancy in choosing your builder/spender go away after a bit? seems like since so much of it is kinda procs it's hard to keep your eyes up

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah you get a muscle memory

[fathom bramble]

you just have to get good enough to react in under a gcd

knowing what is most likely next helps a lot, but in the end it really is just reaction time

[civic zephyr]

but then the gcds are also fast, so it just feels super distracting from being able to see wtf you're doing

feel like i'm just staring at cooldowns instead of the floor

[fathom bramble]

it can help to put opportunity procs in a spot that is very visible even while focusing on other things

[arctic merlin]

just use the cooldown manager to put everything in the middle of the screen so you don't look around too much

[gaunt phoenix]

should have an alert when things are ready

[arctic merlin]

it was a game changer to me

[gaunt phoenix]

i cant see shit without flashy glowing cds

[fathom bramble]

opportunity should imo be separated from everything else and in a very noticeable spot

[civic zephyr]

yeah that's what i'm doing

luxthos cooldown manager

just seems like a very split second thing to choose both your builder and your spender based on cd resets and stuff

can't really assume your next gcd

[gaunt phoenix]

but i mean you have like 2 procs, pistol shot and ace

i think you get used to it

[arctic merlin]

i've been playing only outlaw for the past days/nearly a week in lower keys or timerunning and it's a very noticeable difference from before, less mistakes, less time thinking

[fathom bramble]

putting opportunity directly over my character is what helped me get used to it much faster

I still prefer it there even though it's been 10 years but yeah

[arctic merlin]

that's mine and i've been doing good with it

no addons ofc i dislike addons

[civic zephyr]

yeah i just smacked a dummy after a break from keys and it wasn't awful

maybe i just have to get used to it

[gaunt phoenix]

your active buff tracker should be roll the bones, blade flurry, adrenaline rush, opportunity, loaded dice, slice and dice (and defensive cloak/feint/evasion)

dont need to see trickster coup de grace or whatever else is defaulted on

[civic zephyr]

the luxthos one puts more on the icons than bars

[frail veldt]

oh shit do I need to back to tracking snd

[frail veldt]

just for the opener right?

[arctic merlin]

yeah, but don't do 10 dungeons and expect the next one to be much cleaner than the last, you need to just sleep on it and not get burnt out

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah, it would influence your first finisher if it's not active

[civic zephyr]

i only did 8 dungeons tyvm

wanted ports lol

[frail veldt]

daaaamn

[glass mortar]

does SnD in the opener actually matter enough to move sims if you arent also having lust in the sim (which is always on pull)

[civic zephyr]

i think first finisher dispatch is all you do right?

not like hardcast it

[arctic merlin]

i have slice and dice above, loaded dice is too long of a buff to not be used tbh, and i also have the dmg buff from bte

[glass mortar]

ig its important to know to do it either way

[gaunt phoenix]

The bte buff is just noise in the end

doesnt influence decision making

[civic zephyr]

regardless of bte is glowing or not you still need to spend it with 6 right

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

The glow just means the cooldown was reset

it's not like on a duration

[civic zephyr]

and opportunity is just 'use it as a builder when you have >3 and don't cap it'

[arctic merlin]

for the new low crit/haste build, how much is considered low?

[civic zephyr]

so its basically just guns over swords

[gaunt phoenix]

below this

[civic zephyr]

whole spec is that indiana jones gif

[arctic merlin]

what 1300 stat volume, i've got 129 (20%) crit and 241 (24%) haste

[gaunt phoenix]

that's level 80

level 80 stats are way overscaled

[arctic merlin]

ah i thought it referred to lvl 80 since it's still prepatch

[gaunt phoenix]

This build will be for early level 90

[arctic merlin]

nooooo

it has kir

[frail veldt]

KiR is not the same as before

its usage is very very straightforward

[arctic merlin]

i've just got ptsd

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah, it's just an extra thing to track

[radiant wyvern]

kir is just afk button
if you get a buff that makes you the nyou press it, otherwise you ignore it

[frail veldt]

you just press it when you roll stage 2+

thats it

[vivid vessel]

How surprising (30% bf)

[gaunt phoenix]

it does seem like they tune based on raid more than keys

at least to me

[glass mortar]

yea i think thats pretty clear imo

ur lucky when u get serious m+ tuning

[fathom bramble]

yeah

but also given the type of aoe often present in raid BF being low is also incredibly crippling

since we can't take advantage of add waves with decent passive cleave or with burst now

[gaunt phoenix]

I dont know the raid but having to decide on dancing steel + grand melee will be awkward

[fathom bramble]

it probably comes down to add tuning based on the fights I have seen

[radiant wyvern]

it's fun and unique of them to build a spec that just doesnt work with any content

[fathom bramble]

if passive cleave from us and other better classes is good enough you won't want anyone specing big ST loss talents

or even active cleave/aoe

[gaunt phoenix]

dancing steel doesnt do much in raid but you need it to path into grand melee

a bit lame

[glass mortar]

outlaw be like "how strong do we need to tune a spec for it to be viable without literally any strengths or design upsides"

[fathom bramble]

some specs can basically swap to aoe for free by just casting a different spell

[glass mortar]

someones doing a dev challenge or something

[vivid vessel]

How do you call it viable tho

It has been one of the worse raid spec and m+ spec for litteraly all of tww almost

And S2 tww was a legit accident

It would have been the worse m+ spec all 3 tiers

[glass mortar]

is competative numerically with the other specs and doesnt suffer from having design so counter to the main bosses of the raid it arguably shouldnt be brought to them

[vivid vessel]

Omegalul

[glass mortar]

is generally how i use viable

but im sure its meaning depends on the context/who is using it

[vivid vessel]

Ok bro but it was litteraly the worse spec in the spec in s3

How is it competing

[glass mortar]

what

did i say we were a viable spec in s3