but i dont really care if outlaws profile looks like that its always looked like that
#outlaw
glass mortar
wait melee doesnt double dip AR because AR doesnt give haste im dumb
gaunt phoenix
would be rather strong
fathom bramble
AR gives 20% attack speed and a bunch of energy regen
glass mortar
vanilla ass primary cd for a spec
fathom bramble
also the fact that scoundrel and coins don't get to count as finisher damage seems a little weird
glass mortar
with no haste on gear and no menacing rush ur keystone CD gives u 20% auto speed and energy u cant spend
keen belfry
genuine Q, since we press more buttons in AR how much energy do we actually gain in AR
pastel sierra
in a random 3min mythic loomi kill i had it was 52.3% of my total dmg that would not be boosted by menacing rush and i was already running menacing rush
silk dirge
Hear me out, killing spree should do 500% more dmg in AR
keen belfry
does that Q make sense
like, i dont feel my energy go up that much during AR
i get more energy but i spend more ass well
ass well
fathom bramble
well you spend 25% more and get 20% more from auto attacks and 75% more from regen
glass mortar
generally its tuned to be 1:1 with speed increase to energy income increase
fathom bramble
idk how that math comes out in the end, but since a lot of our energy is in regen now it should be a reasonable surplus
glass mortar
but it works out to be net positive because of the auto/attack speed increase also leading to more energy gen
was my understanding of it anyway
fathom bramble
generally its tuned to be 1:1 with speed increase to energy income increase
it was close to this in TWW when we had less % of our energy from regen, and AR had a lower % boost
glass mortar
hmm
fathom bramble
it should be reasonably above 1:1 now
glass mortar
why does AR even increase gen honestly, it should just turn off energy for its duration
i guess they want to keep u being punished for misplay even during AR
keen belfry
would be banger
glass mortar
fathom bramble
silk dirge
How fast can you push butt9ns
keen belfry
use your redbull reserves, no longer requiring energy as a resource
glass mortar
me when I macro'd /cast SS X 100 into my AR macro
wdym push buttons
aint nobody pushing buttons with no gcd
😏
we r killing the boss in 1 gcd or crashing the server no inbetween
fathom bramble
guess I don't have a graph easily available for our TWW energy gain
fathom bramble
but with a clean half of our energy coming from regen AR is still beating out the 25% more gcds cast
glass mortar
but yea passive is much bigger now
gaunt phoenix
fathom bramble
overall energy overflow is very low, but our average waiting time is almost 0%
actually perfect amount of energy
ashen void
Buried treasure o7
fathom bramble
which I guess we should expect from simming until you have just the right amount of haste for a default profile
glass mortar
has anyone done long form sims like a 10 minute patchwerk to see if energy actually lasts that long btw
pastel sierra
tbh if i hit the 1 buff i FEEL it
glass mortar
it does kinda feel like a race u are falling behind, or it did on beta for me
when u had sustained dummy tests
pastel sierra
it kinda sucks
glass mortar
but felt properly budgeted for a raid boss type fight at least
glass mortar
just a lil bit i guess then
altho itll probably increase the longer u go since tea never fully catches back up
like if ur doing 20 minutes of chaining in m+
keen belfry
itll increase in m+ env with deft talented too
u will make active decisions to afk instead of pressing buttons to not proc a tea at end of a pull
it happens more often than youd guess
fathom bramble
which means assuming the first 5 minutes of the sim are spent at 1.35% waiting you can calc that the average waiting of the 2nd 5 minutes is 3.74%
which is still not too too high
keen belfry
we are tuned energy wishe, FINE in ST with ST talents id say
gaunt phoenix
for science
keen belfry
i like that sim
keen belfry
we are tuned energy wishe, FINE in ST with ST talents id say
the issue is deft and low target deft and long m+ timers @fathom bramble
gaunt phoenix
oh it still gives max energy (idk if that does anything at all in this case)
fathom bramble
the issue is deft and low target deft and long m+ timers <@101843879791177728>
true
I still think energy overflow should be stored as tea charges
and/or tea should recover much faster out of combat
keen belfry
like when a pack is dying and there are like 3 mobs and u are low energy and low tea charges its quite sad what u are forced to do
its often let BF fall off and auto attack one mob lol
glass mortar
BF should just pause out of combat or something idc about uhuh the friction this ability can cause is not pleasant
and ud still need to cast it rotationally during the fight
pastel sierra
its often let BF fall off and auto attack one mob lol
still doing 40% of your normal dmg like that
glass mortar
make it so bf duration stacks up forever like old SnD RtB buff so halfway thru the dungeon u have 2 minutes of Bf remaining due to all the recasting
😠
fathom bramble
bf at least pandemicing would be nice
keen belfry
panda micing
glass mortar
u know what could also help and would make this friction into actual gameplay thats less toxic
ur not gunna believe what im about to say
bf 2 charges when 
glass mortar
outlaw passive: every spell now has 2 charges. Yes even the ones without cds, it just works. We got tired of all the 5head outlaw mains whining for charges for 10 years
keen belfry
SS charges
balmy topaz
random stirrup
it’s actually crazy how close Blizz is to making outlaw playable
crazy how this helps sub a ton too
almost like charges good!
more charges please
reset cds = stinky
glass mortar
if bte, ar and BF all had 2 charges outlaw would be perfect and i would never complain again as long as i live
not a lie
fathom bramble
we could stop looping the same complaints that are fixed by 2 charges endlessly
imagine the value
glass mortar
would be a big buff to outlaw but a bigger buff to outlaw discord yap
gaunt phoenix
we can complain about real things like target cap
glass mortar
at least a 200% buff to yap
fathom bramble
just target cap idk
at least SL had a few dungeons where target cap didn't matter
gaunt phoenix
i guess raid tuning
fathom bramble
nowadays it feels like every key has some giant pull that you are inting on
even when we are poorly tuned complaining about that just isn't the same
it's thinking about fixes that makes it fun
tuning fix is just "buff my % aura thanks"
glass mortar
should softcap outlaw because it makes it match the rest of the game and it just makes it more fun even for ur average player
doesnt matter if softcapping is only a small buff on those uncapped pulls and ur still getting mogged by cd players
no player likes pulling double the amount of mobs all of a sudden and ur doing less dps then u did on the 6 target pull
because u dont scale past 8 and u didnt get the same rng
fathom bramble
yeah that's the other thing that is weird to me
blizzards reasons for hard/soft caps would seem to align with outlaw not being hardcapped
fathom bramble
probably
considering some specs are uncapped or softcapped on crazy burst buttons
glass mortar
it is pretty funny when they make a class with the profile of "hardcapped on filler, basically uncapped on cds" and thats just an uncapped spec homie
but theyll claim to be capped anyway
upper hawk
i can't wait until they forget why they did this UI thing and expose a lot of combat events and act like it's great for community development
fathom bramble
it is pretty funny when they make a class with the profile of "hardcapped on fil...
I'll mention my target cap on like the first pull of floodgate and have someone doubling my damage chime in with their target capped too
and their top 3 damage sources are soft/uncapped
glass mortar
"yea only 75% of my profile on this pull scaled past 8 so"
"it sucks hard to be target capped man i feel you"
strange kelp
I'll mention my target cap on like the first pull of floodgate and have someone ...
Me and my surv hunter have no idea what you are talking about. Bomb and Boomstick are ST abilities
fathom bramble
also when you look at the math you still lose to these players if BF was softcapped
since no burst
glass mortar
yea its not about being good on those pulls
strange kelp
I mean it still feels like shit even if you make up for it over the dungeon
fathom bramble
to me it's about lessening a weakness on a spec that feels like it has no strengths
glass mortar
mhm
strange kelp
Like no one likes doing academy first pull with 8 target cap
fathom bramble
it wouldn't even remove it(and shouldn't)
strange kelp
As destro is hitting 1000mil
Even fury has thunderous roar which is soft capped 20?
Idr
glass mortar
fury had a couple softcapped sources they did get hit pretty hard in tww s1 tho
they basically soft deleted their aoe and it took them most of the expac to recover
their aoe burst in s1 was just too good (on raid fights)
strange kelp
Yes they paid for their sins of brood
But it still does confuse me the decision to keep outlaw perma stuck to 8
Even like a one ability CD to occasionally do more
glass mortar
i think its just something no dev has paid close enough attention to law to care to change idk
theres no real reason for it, it gives you no benifits
cursive fern
glass mortar
outlaw is still a zero upside spec really, you can reduce its downsides and any spec in the game can be viable if its overtuned enough
equal tuning to other bozos u dont have very much to sell urself as a spec tho
opal raven
hello, what bug was patched in the beta please ?
gaunt phoenix
I don't know actually
fathom bramble
autoattack damage gradually reducing over time is probably what they are referring to
gaunt phoenix
unless they meant the fatebound stuff yeah
otherwise i suppose they would have documented it right there surely
wintry solar
Not impossible
gilded karma
@vivid vessel tell me how to feel about these changes thanks
copper radish
Flurry increased??? Oh my lanta keys are saved
gaunt phoenix
bf partially reverted good 
copper radish
Idk how that crosses out 15% inc entirely
fathom bramble
probably mint bug since after it was fixed we started overperforming on the beta and no longer needed the previous buffs
in theory
gaunt phoenix
considering they reduced auto attack damage
cause now they see melee damage is a bit higher than it used to be
copper radish
Still waiting for uncapped flurry…..
wintry solar
Pipe dream
gaunt phoenix
that is unlikely
wintry solar
It's been literal years, gonna have to get over it at some point
This is simply our reality
lethal oak
what "significant bug" was fixed
Enjoyment
wintry solar
tunning
copper radish
Unplayable now
They shoulda just let us have fun 😭
frank finch
survival buff
wintry solar
Unholy buff
frank finch
nvm surv nerfed
copper radish
Unholy still buffed
Is that two buffs now???
wintry solar
Wdym
deep sequoia
@vivid vessel thoughts???????
copper radish
I played unholy the other day and feel like it has more procs and buttons than ever before
deep sequoia
why nerf the auto attack damage?
strange kelp
nvm surv nerfed
Surv hard nerfed
frank finch
bm to
wintry solar
I played unholy the other day and feel like it has more procs and buttons than e...
It's getting a mini rework come midnight
New talents and stuff
frank finch
wait our 15 % aura is just gone?
strange kelp
Yup lol
wintry solar
Yeah
deep sequoia
wait our 15 % aura is just gone?
yep
frank finch
ill wait for the solo update b4 i /
deep sequoia
fun detected
strange kelp
Sub also nerfed
frank finch
done b4 we even get to start
low glade
lmaoooooo
copper radish
ill wait for the solo update b4 i /
.7% lost looks like
frank finch
k i need a full page on how losing 15 % aura buff is only .7% loss
wintry solar
Was that the goat Mes?
wintry solar
k i need a full page on how losing 15 % aura buff is only .7% loss
Just live in blissful ignorance
copper radish
k i need a full page on how losing 15 % aura buff is only .7% loss
“Bug fix” but they didn’t say what bug 🤷♂️
frank finch
seems like solo knows what bug
fathom bramble
probably mint bug since after it was fixed we started overperforming on the beta and no longer needed the previous buffs
strange kelp
It was bug fix + bf buff
fathom bramble
buffing us based on tainted data from a debilitating bug already looked a little strange
deep sequoia
“Bug fix” but they didn’t say what bug 🤷♂️
i think the .7% loss is the fb nerf not the bug fix
gloomy coral
👮♂️
radiant wyvern
i just want outlaw to be viable ONCE
i don't think it's possible (in keys) unless outlaw is just tuned very high
vivid vessel
when we get buffed we get bf nerfed
but when we get unbuffed
the opposite doesnt happen
interesting
gloomy coral
Im just here to make sure the peace is kept because I know how yall are.
wintry solar
Ban him, he's been showing people his Wangbar
vivid vessel
very interesting !
deep sequoia
just put the bf buff back at what it was before the nerf lol
keen belfry
Don’t keep the peace, let us have some
deep sequoia
why pick random ass numbers
gloomy coral
wintry solar
Movin like me at 3am going to the fridge to eat cubes of cheese
radiant wyvern
Im just here to make sure the peace is kept because I know how yall are.
this is slander
low glade
outlaw damage was kinda crazy on beta
vivid vessel
interesting
fathom bramble
and yet not as good as sub
shut lichen
interesting (interesting)
vivid vessel
very interesting !
low glade
and yet not as good as sub
was literally better than sub
hazy temple
why cant it be crazy just once?
low glade
is deathstalker sub gonna be the move?
sin still getting treated like the red headed middle child
frank finch
hold wait for solo update !!!!
vestal notch
is deathstalker......no f off
vivid vessel
very interesting !
fathom bramble
I mean if you just randomly guess that sub will be the move you would be right more often than not
vivid vessel
im interested !
fathom bramble
even with literally no credible info
silent adder
they nerf all good spzcs in the game
covert kestrel
is deathstalker sub gonna be the move?
the move when i run out of ambien and lean
silent adder
not just outlaw
frank finch
not unholy
fathom bramble
was literally better than sub
maybe
copper radish
Sword+dag all xpack for the easy swap to sub
fathom bramble
I guess in the end it doesn't matter
tuning isn't final and we won't be best by the time mythic opens
vivid vessel
interesting
glass mortar
Only tuning that matters is bf to st ratio
abstract frost
they needed to nerf outlaw. it was almost halfway at demo locks dps
vivid vessel
very interesting !
glass mortar
Everything else is a meme to panic to rn
keen belfry
interesting
SHUTUp man.
vivid vessel
so interesting !
interesting developpment !
as expected !
bf goes down but doesnt go up the same way !
interesting !
hazy temple
zac will you still play outlaw? evernthough the core gameplay loop / dopamine gain is gone?
vivid vessel
interesting !
keen belfry
green mauve
looks like zac's mind broke
low glade
my face when
vivid vessel
zac will you still play outlaw? evernthough the core gameplay loop / dopamine ga...
bro every other spec in the game is even more boring
what you want me to do
i would not be playing wow without outlaw
gloomy coral
The only dopamine zac gets these days is testing my trigger finger by holding his intrusive thoughts back.
frail veldt
rofl
vivid vessel
koffing you wont catch me slip
im reformed
you think im an amateur or what
noob
frail veldt
not if I start rage baiting you
hazy temple
bro every other spec in the game is even more boring
i was considering not playing anymore when i played around with the new talents? who the fuck asked for thistle tea?
frail veldt
zac I thought you said they wouldnt buff BF when they nerf our ST, but they buffed it to 30%
why you complaining
guy was right the whole time
they literally buffed BF as they nerfed our ST
you were wrong
vivid vessel
zac I thought you said they wouldnt buff BF when they nerf our ST, but they buff...
they aura buffed us by 15% and nerfed bf from 35 to 25, then they aura nerf us 15% and buff bf from 25 to 30
fossil lintel
Wait, did they revert the 15% AND gave it an extra -10%? Or is melee there just autos?
vivid vessel
so no
fathom bramble
I mean the idea that BF % is too low and should go back up was true at 35%
fathom bramble
more true at 25%
frail veldt
rofl
fathom bramble
and holds true at 30%
frail veldt
"I cant get rage baited"
hazy temple
yay BF that keeps going down so we can hit a 0 dmg spell over and over again, and yet still be target capped
vivid vessel
stop falling for it
fuck
vivid vessel
mewo ..
frail veldt
took me one message
frail veldt
but actually though
frail veldt
is 10% melee nerf ~= 5% bf buff?
cuz 10% melee nerf is obv a lot weaker than the 15% aura buff
gloomy coral
"In my old era"
2 weeks ago
vivid vessel
idk what this mean
gloomy coral
vivid vessel
"In my old era"
2 weeks ago
im reformed since then
different man
you know people change
idk
frail veldt
so they "nerfed" us by 10% melee damage but buffed our BF by 5% so I think we do more aoe damage than before right? @vivid vessel
not trolling genuine questions
vivid vessel
what
shut lichen
math checks out
fathom bramble
they also took 15% uara away
vivid vessel
yes?
tidal horizon
lul funny outluls
radiant kelp
you know people change
covert kestrel
vivid vessel
i mena
coarse mesa
lock the discord down
fathom bramble
I mean outlaw was looking good on the beta for raid
fathom bramble
and if history means anything outlaw isn't going to be the go to rogue spec in any mythic raid environment
very expected nerf
vivid vessel
i told you that it would get nerfed but bf wouldnt get buffed back the same way
was so obvious lol
thick vigil
What was the bug that made them aura buff us by 15%?
fathom bramble
probably the mint bug that was stealing all our AA damage
abstract frost
the bug was playing outlaw
frail veldt
i told you that it would get nerfed but bf wouldnt get buffed back the same way
I didnt think they would be this daft
fathom bramble
there is no other known bug that accounts for the change and lines up in time with the previous buffs
shut lichen
and if history means anything outlaw isn't going to be the go to rogue spec in a...
the more things change, the more they stay the same 
upper hawk
didn't they also nerf fatebound?
vivid vessel
i cant be the only sane one in this discord no
upper hawk
or was that already known
gloomy coral
👮♂️
fathom bramble
didn't they also nerf fatebound?
fatebound nerf is insignificant
shut lichen
bold to assume anyone is sane in this discord
deep sequoia
@vivid vessel rn
near rock
i cant be the only sane one in this discord no
500k+ messages, sane aint the word I'd use
frail veldt
I mean I agreed with you
gloomy coral
At least you aint doing shit like saying "+20s are easy bro lmao"
fathom bramble
i cant be the only sane one in this discord no
I mean I've been maining a spec in raid that has never had its 'tier'
frail veldt
At least you aint doing shit like saying "+20s are easy bro lmao"
nah thats a zeross thing
fathom bramble
it just is what it is
frail veldt
"HOF isnt even hard"
fathom bramble
I expect nothing less
vivid vessel
At least you aint doing shit like saying "+20s are easy bro lmao"
wdym
i have never done that i think
frail veldt
you kinda do
frail veldt
usually if zeross asks you
gloomy coral
hello?
strange kelp
He's gotta pause and think on that one
copper radish
nah thats a zeross thing
Games built for the 1% wym
shut lichen
damn it's crazy how calm this channel is when The Watcher is around
gloomy coral
👀
shut lichen
back in ye old days we'd have 5 min chat timer
frail veldt
I cant remember the last time we had a timer in here
gloomy coral
Cap.
vivid vessel
ok bro
fossil lintel
This channel has been significantly slower than at any other point in the past 3 expansions
upper hawk
i don't know waht "cap" means
vivid vessel
ye no shit nothing has happened in like 5 months bro
fathom bramble
everytime it's less than cool it's someone coming in here to deliberately start shit
gilded tinsel
It’s because the majority of rogue players left
quaint mauve
hi guys
gloomy coral
@fluid iron is very nice
shut lichen
i don't know waht "cap" means
cap
fossil lintel
I guess it's a sign a lot of people are dropping after midnight changes
vivid vessel
everytime it's less than cool it's someone coming in here to deliberately start ...
moot
radiant wyvern
don't summon the demon
shut lichen
I guess it's a sign a lot of people are dropping after midnight changes
or everyone is afk till launch
lucid sparrow
confused if the bug fix and the dmg buff removal is good or bad with the bf buff
shut lichen
then u got a flood of people asking the same question every 5 mins
lucid sparrow
or net neutral
tidal horizon
confused if the bug fix and the dmg buff removal is good or bad with the bf buff
bad
fossil lintel
or everyone is afk till launch
Nah it was much more lively in here on previous pre patches it feels
fathom bramble
or net neutral
the bug(if it is the one we think it is) was fixed around the time they gave us the buff and BF nerf last time
the last while on beta was us overperforming due to having the bug fixed and a buff around the same time
shut lichen
Nah it was much more lively in here on previous pre patches it feels
idk i felt in previous pre-patchs it was always usually the same people making noise
cunning swan
i told you that it would get nerfed but bf wouldnt get buffed back the same way
yeah if it was overtuned in raid it'd insta get clapped anyway
fathom bramble
they are now tuning it back down to account for the bugfix weeks later
lucid sparrow
assa is skipping around in joy
strange kelp
I mean the assa changes aren't huge
fossil lintel
I haven't seen the beta numbers, were we outperforming?
fathom bramble
it'll be interesting to see how many people obr if assa actually lands as the best
gloomy coral
Must be fun getting changes 
fathom bramble
I haven't seen the beta numbers, were we outperforming?
based off of the last round of raid testing, yes
covert kestrel
I’m the nicest in the outlaw channel
Wtf I'm so nice
fossil lintel
I heard warlocks were the big outliers
gaunt phoenix
Beta tuning Feb. 3rd
All damage increased by 15%-- REVERTED because of a significant bug fix- Melee damage reduced by 10%.
- Blade Flurry causes your abilities to strike nearby enemies for 30% of damage dealt (was 25%).
- Ravenholdt Mint increases Tails’ damage bonus by 12% (was 15%).
- Lucky Coin duration reduced to 12 seconds (was 15 seconds).
-
I'm assuming the "significant bug fix" they are referring to is the Fatebound Mint/auto-attack fix from 2 weeks ago, which is fair... though it is funny that as soon as we notice Outlaw having considerable tuning in the raid, it ends up being a mistake and a net loss had to go on top of it.
-
The
Fatebound nerfs are not even a 1% loss, shouldn't change much. I will scrutinize FB vs Trickster at different haste levels just in case, will update when I get a chance. -
The
BF nerf is partially reverted, which is good-- there's enough thoughts about that in the previous post, and they are still true. It is curious that they felt only a partial reversion was warranted even after undoing the 15% aura. -
Undocumented,
Blade Rush gcd now properly gets reduced by 
Adrenaline Rush (this is not the huge bugfix they are talking about)
fathom bramble
but raid testing has all the flaws it has
keen belfry
Wtf I'm so nice
You’re number 4
teal dust
i mean its fine if mages outperform for 6 expansions
fathom bramble
I heard warlocks were the big outliers
warlocks were a bigger outlier yeah
there is also again every flaw that raid testing has for determining class balance
since you are kind of looking at 4 people palying a spec
and saying it must be good/bad
gloomy coral
@gaunt phoenix 
gaunt phoenix
at least all the raid outlaws are in haste mastery gear lol
fossil lintel
I assume the hero talent nerfs were aimed at demo
frail veldt
You’re number 4
Id put frontier over you
frank finch
solo we back or dead?
thorn parrot
I just want to be a pirate blizzard ffs get it right
frail veldt
have to say it
strange kelp
at least all the raid outlaws are in haste mastery gear lol
Probably all sub players 😛
fossil lintel
Do we have like stats for the raid testing round?
keen belfry
Id put frontier over you
Well you are the #1 liar of outlaw
frail veldt
I just want to be a pirate blizzard ffs get it right
they took out all of our pirate stuff 🙁
frail veldt
Well you are the #1 liar of outlaw
I would never lie
quaint mauve
I’m the nicest in the outlaw channel
im pretty nice
fossil lintel
Or just natty find the logs in wcl?
frail veldt
I dont know how
keen belfry
im pretty nice
You are #7
gaunt phoenix
i wouldnt get to rustled over beta tuning but i assume we're going back to typical tuning instead of "oh wow our st seems pretty good this time around"
quaint mauve
You are #7
7!!
fathom bramble
yeah with BF at this % they basically have to make our ST decent
fossil lintel
Is awang assigning numbers to people? Kind of a dick move for a self proclaimed nicest outlaw
fathom bramble
otherwise we will be at the bottom of wclogs and get the usual bottom 5 buffs
at least we won't be held back by padding this time
frail veldt
Is awang assigning numbers to people? Kind of a dick move for a self proclaimed ...
truuuuuu
fossil lintel
Where's the dooming though? Who's guy going to complain about if we don't doom?
frank finch
im dooming
frank finch
fun ended b4 it started
keen belfry
Is awang assigning numbers to people? Kind of a dick move for a self proclaimed ...
9th place for you
frail veldt
Yeah im pretty sure ive already seen this episode
gloomy coral
You can always join me in dooming about feral.
frail veldt
9th place for you
if im #1 liar does that make me last place nicest
low glade
You can always join me in dooming about feral.
is feral still down horrendous?
frail veldt
You can always join me in dooming about feral.
I thought people liked the big crunch ability
is feral doom too?
frail veldt
yeah that one
fathom bramble
it does have a really good sound effect
glass mortar
Feral plays like a leveling spec
gloomy coral
Chomp goes hard, its just awkward
glass mortar
Or it did to me
glass mortar
Chomp is cute but the framework wasn't there for the rest of the spec
No outlaw plays way better
I dont use leveling spec that easily in here
fathom bramble
a spell like chomp hitting so hard that you want to spend energy as fast as possible to gain access to it just seems odd to me
lime lake
feral would play better if they had kept the name massive attack
gloomy coral
Gotta preswipe before bosspull tho so you can use it during cds haHAAA
fathom bramble
yeahhh
idk chomp should do like no damage and be a fallback for when you run out of energy
gaunt phoenix
Chomp chomp
fathom bramble
not be a thing that makes you try to waste energy
maybe that's just me thinking that idk
I don't read general feral complaints generally
gloomy coral
Its ok neither does blizzard
ashen void
"chomp" is just such a hilarious name for an ability
fathom bramble
every feral ability has a hilarious name
reminder that their main finisher is ferocious bite
gloomy coral
gloomy coral
ashen void
Surprised they don't have an ability to instantly regain all their energy called "Can Haz Cheezburg"
gloomy coral
Thistle tea, but cat
wintry solar
You can't share cat videos with anyone anymore.
gloomy coral
wintry solar
They claim AI everytime
fathom bramble
Slice of ham: Restore 100 energy. When your energy is reduced below 30, eat a Slice of ham.
ashen void
they are unbelievably amusing lil critters
fathom bramble
wait a minute
strange kelp
they are unbelievably amusing lil critters
Except for when they jump on your desk mid key
ashen void
patent mirage
wat
fossil lintel
Meanwhile psychic link increased from 45 to 60%
patent mirage
milk???
fathom bramble
you can see it in the cup too
fathom bramble
and it says 2% on the cup
gloomy coral
What if its green tea 
patent mirage
we have been told lies all along!
vapid sundial
Mfw they lost the original tea icon
keen belfry
if im #1 liar does that make me last place nicest
No lying can be nice
patent mirage
no
fathom bramble
Mfw they lost the original tea icon
I think that is the original icon
looking at wowhead classic
we have always been drinking 2% milk not tea
patent mirage
im talking about how they throw it at the harbor
keen belfry
No lying can be nice
@covert kestrel you are a blaster
strange kelp
No lying can be nice
Is that like when you tell me I'm a good player?
vapid sundial
im talking about how they throw it at the harbor
Deserved
keen belfry
Is that like when you tell me I'm a good player?
You blast too
covert kestrel
<@259719852510543873> you are a blaster
is this good or bad i cant tell
strange kelp
patent mirage
tea with cream
just dont tell british people
oh no fury nerfs
look how they massacred my boy
vivid vessel
i wouldnt get to rustled over beta tuning but i assume we're going back to typic...
back to normal st but with 30% bf
hmge
interesting if I must say so myself
frank finch
the auto attk bug never got fixed on beta?
unborn moon
were they lying about the bug hampering our numbers?
gloomy coral
They must have been if they fixed the bug, reverted 15% and the diff is neglible.. Right? That tracks?
frank finch
i think the neglible part was the fb nerfs
fathom bramble
slice of bacon
vivid vessel
wtf
patent mirage
i knew it
radiant wyvern
interesting if I must say so myself
the plan is simple, we reduce the amount of casters, make every mythic dungeon have giga mob pulls, we keep the bf hardcap, and reduce it's dmg by 20%
deep sequoia
im always ready for that zac
fathom bramble
for keys probably
I'm not seeing the gamewide aoe reductions that would make a low bf % more reasonable
vivid vessel
dw about it lok
fathom bramble
some specs even still have incredibly good passive cleave
at least I don't have to do anything above a 10
sucks for key doers though
sucks a lot
vivid vessel
its funny that some of these dungeons
keen belfry
i think it might be the worse its ever been
Legitimately how is it possible that this isn’t the case? Don’t we need insane ST sims to be a m+ spec
vivid vessel
Legitimately how is it possible that this isn’t the case? Don’t we need insane S...
:D
good luck in keys bro
its gonna be fine guys
radiant wyvern
my time in wow is like 90% keys 10% raid
fathom bramble
I guess figure out if you enjoy sub in keys or not
vivid vessel
vivid vessel
I guess figure out if you enjoy sub in keys or not
i play sub in hoa this season
keen belfry
Legitimately how is it possible that this isn’t the case? Don’t we need insane S...
This isn’t even me dooming, it’s a genuine Q. How do you tune 30% BF outlaw?
radiant wyvern
I guess figure out if you enjoy sub in keys or not
at least ill be able to start watching netflix on the other monitor in keys
vivid vessel
This isn’t even me dooming, it’s a genuine Q. How do you tune 30% BF outlaw?
dw about it wang
the target cap is important to be kept
keen belfry
Wangbar might get deleted
vivid vessel
because bf hits too hard btw
fathom bramble
This isn’t even me dooming, it’s a genuine Q. How do you tune 30% BF outlaw?
you would need to supplement aoe somehow with passive cleave % this low, but we have nowhere to supplement it
keen belfry
Outlaw doesn’t deserve wangbar
fathom bramble
like BM got their passive cleave(kill cleave, beast cleave) cut in half
gloomy coral
If you aint taken for keys, you have enough time to solodev wangbar. Gotta look at the bright sides yaknow.
fathom bramble
but got stuff elsewhere to make up for it
vivid vessel
like BM got their passive cleave(kill cleave, beast cleave) cut in half
bm is also one of the highest aoe spec this season
fathom bramble
yeah ik
vivid vessel
we are litteraly tank damage aoe
and we get nerfed the most ?
hmge
make sense
i see the vision
frail veldt
No lying can be nice
yeah wangs not even top 10
fathom bramble
also MM still has their passive* cleave at 70%
so idk
*applied by multishot spamming
frail veldt
Legitimately how is it possible that this isn’t the case? Don’t we need insane S...
our max aoe is 100 + 7*30% now right?
so 310% total aoe damage
obv can sprinkle in some extra from blade rush
what are other specs looking like in terms of ST to AoE ratio?
normally its closer to like 500% right?
keen belfry
we are litteraly tank damage aoe
the first pulls of alge i did on beta a vdh was cooking me
fathom bramble
our max aoe is 100 + 7*30% now right?
we have things that add to BF %
fatebound passive and grand melee
frail veldt
we have things that add to BF %
oh yeah true
fathom bramble
our total is now 44 as fatebound with aoe talents
nocturne shuttle
gg outlaw
olive spire
outlaw back to the dumpster vibes?
frail veldt
our total is now 44 as fatebound with aoe talents
its higher as fatebound?
nocturne shuttle
blizzard forgot rogue cant be good it almost went to live whew
fathom bramble
trickster is 49.4 I think
if I have the order of operations on the 30% boost correct
rose kernel
Tbh rogue was garbage in keys anyway. We go back to being 3.6% DR in raid and thats all
radiant wyvern
Tbh rogue was garbage in keys anyway. We go back to being 3.6% DR in raid and th...
not worth to take in raid
frail veldt
sub usually is
olive spire
Tbh rogue was garbage in keys anyway. We go back to being 3.6% DR in raid and th...
enviromental damage has some words for you
rose kernel
HoF raids sub will be
frail veldt
subs almost always worth it in raid
vivid vessel
outlaw in raid
rose kernel
Yeh
frail veldt
outlaw is I think more of a casual spec now
frail veldt
good for low keys and heroic raid probably
rose kernel
Our utility is nothing left
frail veldt
and a nice and simple rotation
fathom bramble
enviromental damage has some words for you
nearly all of the bosses damage is nearly always sourced from stuff you can apply atro to though
vivid vessel
my bad bro outlaw has to be the worse spec in the game in every content every season
my bad
fathom bramble
there was 2 fights this entire expansion that atro didn't work almost full effectively on
olive spire
nearly all of the bosses damage is nearly always sourced from stuff you can appl...
i dunno if i remember correctly but wasent forge basically almost completely not sourced to boss?
rose kernel
Who cares about the 4th boss
olive spire
it was a wall
fathom bramble
that is an example of one of the rare fights where this is almost true
haughty wigeon
fathom bramble
in intermission you only apply it to 1 collecter and there is a fair chunk of damage coming from the manaforge itself that cannot be targetted
other fight this expansion was trashmaster
but that's again
literally 2 fights an expac
rose kernel
Just wish we had something, some CC or some buff or whatever to compensate us having mid dmg and no util at all
olive spire
at least sub is purple
rose kernel
And we have range smaller thn a gnomes nose
Distract mega good util guys. Idd rather have distract thn cr, lust, aoe stops, raid buff
But atleast we cant even do dmg on outlaw now
vivid vessel
the fact aoe blind is getting deleted when a dev login and realize
will never cease to amaze me how outlaw manage to get worse every expac
while already being dog
fathom bramble
i dunno if i remember correctly but wasent forge basically almost completely not...
also for what it's worth you ran crippling on forge anyway since it was the strongest most reliable slow in the game
olive spire
also for what it's worth you ran crippling on forge anyway since it was the stro...
you are right mb
fathom bramble
now trashmaster was a wall, and atro didn't work, and we had no other meaningfull poison to apply
a lot of people just sat their rogues on it for a variety of good reasons including atro not working
lime lake
it didnt help that fight just being useless as any non dk melee
olive spire
i think liquid sat their rogue on world first kill and later regretted it
lime lake
in undermine?
olive spire
on forge fight
fathom bramble
yeah I think sitting rogue on forge was a mistake
considering how good crippling alone was
indigo token
??
fathom bramble
trashmaster though sitting rogue was probably justified
which iirc liquid or maybe the other one did then too
indigo token
wasnt mint already not that good
fathom bramble
it's whatever since we can't exactly choose not to take mint
think of it more like a fatebound nerf when fatebound was winning
covert kestrel
Evil Zach is here someone call koffing
gloomy coral
👀
vivid vessel
zac and less cool zac
vapid sundial
Who's who
gloomy coral
olive spire
the pins say which zac is evil?
vapid sundial
No one else wants to touch this spec
gloomy coral
BUT I TAKE THE WIN ITS OK
vapid sundial
gloomy coral
LETS CRED THE PURPLE
vivid vessel
he wasnt talking about you lil bud ..
wintry solar
LETS CRED THE PURPLE
You mean cred popo
gloomy coral
real
quaint mauve
cred me
gloomy coral
Also cred the don
wintry solar
I am, after all, Mr. Cool Guy
vapid sundial
quaint mauve
I am, after all, Mr. Cool Guy
you’re not guy
bright cedar
lmao wait sub got a nerf 
quaint mauve
guy is guy
vapid sundial
lmao wait sub got a nerf <:kekw:915588113210937354>
Good
wintry solar
He's forever guy
wintry solar
<:cat_clown:1049838483168051300>
NUH UH
vapid sundial
Fuck that spec
quaint mauve
what the
pastel pendant
was that really necessary
quaint mauve
another zac(h)
vapid sundial
don't hate ur brothers
They hate me I hate them
vivid vessel
another zac(h)
this one isnt as good bro
vapid sundial
Return fire
gloomy coral
Is that the account zac uses to let out his real thoughts
lime lake
reformed (on main account)
quaint mauve
Return fire
deadlock reference
vapid sundial
Is that the account zac uses to let out his _real_ thoughts
Are we really saying that after the rant that lost him green
vapid sundial
deadlock reference
No
vivid vessel
Are we really saying that after the rant that lost him green
im reformed
wintry solar
Is that the account zac uses to let out his _real_ thoughts
Some believe so yes
vapid sundial
im reformed
Tarzaned reformed after the reformation of tarzaned
olive spire
all these other specs get 20 lines of texts meanwhile outlaw gets 3
you wanted more lines of nerfs?
vivid vessel
Tarzaned reformed after the reformation of tarzaned
the zanium
pastel pendant
i want lines of buffs
bright cedar
all these other specs get 20 lines of texts meanwhile outlaw gets 3
excuse me
WW got NOTHING
does not even appear on the list
pastel pendant
devs dont even no ww exists
bright cedar
why do I hate myself
gloomy coral
Do they even yes?
bright cedar
maybe
wintry solar
They sometimes maybe
vapid sundial
How do you do when you do what you to do to what you do what you do to do
lime lake
real
pastel pendant
i wasa hoping they were going to makes some changes to make outlaw fun againm but nope just 10 percent melee dmg nerf so cool
vapid sundial
You're talking about the spec that gets heroic week nerfed every expansion
I wouldn't expect much
fathom bramble
given how close we are to the expac it is very unlikely you will see meaningful changes to the playstyle
move your hopes to a .5 patch or something
vapid sundial
You know what
fathom bramble
we aren't paladins though
lime lake
but this is outlaw so
fathom bramble
they play by different rules
dull geyser
did we get nerfed after bug fix on beta?
olive spire
we don't have the numbers to force a reaction
vapid sundial
Blizzard you've lost me I tried so hard so many times so long I give hope and more hope and more hope but all you do is shatter my deams I can't take it anymore I'm moving on and going to play a different game this is to say I'm resubbing to Ffxiv so I can be a pretty dragon girl and actually enjoy a game where the Devs don't just kill what I love again and again and again this was the last straw you have lost me as a customer and I won't be coming back
dull geyser
uh... so were cooked
wintry solar
Blizzard you've lost me I tried so hard so many times so long I give hope and more hope and more hope but all you do is shatter my deams I can't take it anymore I'm moving on and going to play a different game this is to say I'm resubbing to Ffxiv so I can be a pretty dragon girl and actually enjoy a game where the Devs don't just kill what I love again and again and again this was the last straw you have lost me as a customer and I won't be coming back
pastel pendant
outlaw has been cooked since this patch caME OUT
vivid vessel
Blizzard you've lost me I tried so hard so many times so long I give hope and more hope and more hope but all you do is shatter my deams I can't take it anymore I'm moving on and going to play a different game this is to say I'm resubbing to Ffxiv so I can be a pretty dragon girl and actually enjoy a game where the Devs don't just kill what I love again and again and again this was the last straw you have lost me as a customer and I won't be coming back
bright cedar
Blizzard you've lost me I tried so hard so many times so long I give hope and more hope and more hope but all you do is shatter my deams I can't take it anymore I'm moving on and going to play a different game this is to say I'm resubbing to Ffxiv so I can be a pretty dragon girl and actually enjoy a game where the Devs don't just kill what I love again and again and again this was the last straw you have lost me as a customer and I won't be coming back
olive spire
oh god
pastel pendant
take this spec out back and put a bullet in its head thats what these devs have done
dull geyser
wait DEMO DIDNT EVEN GET NERFED?
vapid sundial
No
olive spire
demo being OP wasn't a mistake
vivid vessel
gloomy coral
take this spec out back and put a bullet in its head thats what these devs have ...
Thats a bit dramatic.
vapid sundial
Outlaw pov
bright cedar
thinking we would go live topping st
nono, that's WW after the last set of buffs
vapid sundial
According to Zac
bright cedar
you can get second best tho
lime lake
wait DEMO DIDNT EVEN GET NERFED?
they nerfed the hero talent that was op
vapid sundial
Do not trust
covert kestrel
Hi, my name is ryukage. I an ex-outlaw player. I still suffer from outlaw addiction. I'm currently in withdrawals. But the spec was destroyed by blizzard and hasn't been fixed yet. Meanwhile as it's broken it still receives nerfs. It's comical. I cannot return. I cannot endure another tww season 1. I can't endure another 1000 declines and little to no game time, on top of low damage reward for high apm.
-Ryukage
Ex-Outlaw
lime lake
real
Hi, my name is ryukage. I an ex-outlaw player. I still suffer from outlaw addiction. I'm currently in withdrawals. But the spec was destroyed by blizzard and hasn't been fixed yet. Meanwhile as it's broken it still receives nerfs. It's comical. I cannot return. I cannot endure another tww season 1. I can't endure another 1000 declines and little to no game time, on top of low damage reward for high apm.
-Ryukage
Ex-Outlaw
normal forge
At least they had sin rogue on last cinematic lol
frail veldt
Hi, my name is ryukage. I an ex-outlaw player. I still suffer from outlaw addiction. I'm currently in withdrawals. But the spec was destroyed by blizzard and hasn't been fixed yet. Meanwhile as it's broken it still receives nerfs. It's comical. I cannot return. I cannot endure another tww season 1. I can't endure another 1000 declines and little to no game time, on top of low damage reward for high apm.
-Ryukage
Ex-Outlaw
pastel pendant
pretty much this but 100x worse becuz now outlaw sucks on top of being shit to play, at least when outlaw was bad it was still fun to play
so now u will do shit dmg with low apm gameplay
pastel pendant
like if fury warrior is a higher apm spec than outlaw u know u fcked up
lethal oak
Outlaw RIP Jan. 2026- Feb. 2026
pastel pendant
ok maybe ouitlaw is highger apm when u have adr up but thats it
outside of adr it slows down
fierce mulch
is outlaw saved?
stuck patrol
I can't believe my body slows down when I don't have adrenaline in my system Im literally shaking
frail veldt
I can't believe my body slows down when I don't have adrenaline in my system Im ...
maybe yours does
fierce mulch
its joever...
pastel pendant
tyhats hopw it feels to play outlaw
ur just a drug addict
going through withdrawls
stuck patrol
maybe yours does
Are u calling me old
vapid sundial
Having a lower gcd when you press ar gives you a higher apm. Crazy
frail veldt
Are u calling me old
aint callin you young
stuck patrol
Respect ur elders kid
stuck patrol
I played rogue since vaniller I won't take this disrespect
frail veldt
Respect ur elders kid
imagine thinkin im a kid
stuck patrol
imagine thinkin im a kid
Even if u were one year younger than me u would be kid
Bc funny
heavy shadow
Is there a point to have Thistle Tea on your action bar? Or just let it auto
stuck patrol
Is there a point to have Thistle Tea on your action bar? Or just let it auto
Auto, unless you wanna track it for some reason
covert kestrel
imagine thinkin im a kid
Old man mewo been here since iwo jima, the last time outlaw was meta
pastel pendant
just let it auto but it not like it mnatters u run out of tea within 60 seconds of combat then ur sitting there with ur cock in ur hands energy starved afk spamming ss
frail veldt
Old man mewo been here since iwo jima, the last time outlaw was meta
damn right
haughty tusk
Are these changes a negative or positive
frail veldt
Are these changes a negative or positive
negative
haughty tusk
Fuck
stuck patrol
It's doomin time
haughty tusk
Damn outlaw looked fun too
pastel pendant
no it iddint
wintry solar
Yeah get off my spec
frail veldt
Damn outlaw looked fun too
if a specs only fun when its op then was it really fun?
wintry solar
Fotmers smh
lethal oak
Mewo make it all make sense I fell to my knees in Walmart
stuck patrol
But its always in the shitter
Ride above, beat everyone anyway
haughty tusk
If its not their for dmg then why take it in raid
frail veldt
Mewo make it all make sense I fell to my knees in Walmart
blizz sees something we dont
vapid sundial
Because you aren't raiding hof
frail veldt
theres a good chance were still tuned okay for st
vapid sundial
So why care what classes you have
frail veldt
and we will likely still be strong in low keys
haughty tusk
Im trying to push sad
frail veldt
but outlaw in high end competitive play is looking very doom
strange kelp
and we will likely still be strong in low keys
low keys pog, my favorite!
stuck patrol
but outlaw in high end competitive play is looking very doom
Bring your own key, ez
frail veldt
yeah im sure we will still clap the +15s and under
haughty tusk
Back to 4th season on dk lmao
vapid sundial
yeah im sure we will still clap the +15s and under
Whoa. Buddy. I didn't know you knew epstein
haughty tusk
Devourer looks good though too
stuck patrol
Whoa. Buddy. I didn't know you knew epstein
LMFAO
wintry solar
Waiting for Realz to come in and say that we're all playing it wrong and he drops us an outlaw build that's a 12% increase from our current builds
haughty tusk
That would be sick
lime lake
what the hell
lethal oak
gloomy coral
I chuckled, so under discordlaw I cant delete it. But, hold it back.
frail veldt
Waiting for Realz to come in and say that we're all playing it wrong and he drop...
imagine thinking realz knows better than the goat solo
frank finch
i need sims
wintry solar
imagine thinking realz knows better than the goat solo
Realz has home homefield advantage
lime lake
ive never seen realz and solo in the same room
lime lake
The eyes in your pfp tell me you can't see anything
literally 3 eyes
i can see everything, poop
vivid vessel
lime lake
important comma added
vivid vessel
oh there is a -
ok
sure bro
why do they do math sometimes
and then they dont do math other time
keen belfry
it does negative dmg now
frank finch
so not - 15 % its - 10%?
keen belfry
im going to get you banned
vivid vessel
no i will
vital orbit
Quick question, whats the finisher rule I've read about in the rotation guide? Can I spend at 5 cp as Fatebound? (couldnt find the fnisher rule that the guide mentioned)
vivid vessel
minus infinite
fresh acorn
Quick question, whats the finisher rule I've read about in the rotation guide? C...
iirc it’s 5+ for dispatch and 6+ for BtE
vital orbit
Thank you
restive obsidian
I just want tuning to finish so i know how bad it is
subtle cedar
how bad are the changes actually ?
warped spruce
I just want confirmation, there is zero reason to go into stealth as outlaw?
unkempt dew
I am waiting for solo to do his thing
frail veldt
Quick question, whats the finisher rule I've read about in the rotation guide? C...
this is from the guide
pastel sierra
I just want confirmation, there is zero reason to go into stealth as outlaw?
No more stealth bonuses for combat
mighty pivot
BF buff
mighty pivot
# [Beta tuning Feb. 3rd](<https://www.wowhead.com/news/midnight-beta-patch-12-0-...
if the aura buff reversion is because of the coin bug, did they forget that trickster is a thing? Food for thought 
tepid leaf
isn't it worth going stealth if your running fuge
mighty pivot
you don't run that
strong halo
vivid dune
on first read i thought it meant they were going to do another 15% aura buff and canceled it last minute
but then i realized the truth
so sad
tepid leaf
I do 
vivid vessel
if the aura buff reversion is because of the coin bug, did they forget that tric...
if a 15% aura buff meant a 10% bf nerf, why is a 15% aura nerf a 5% bf up? Food for thought
tepid leaf
but i also am soley a pvper outlaw player
ashen void
if a 15% aura buff meant a 10% bf nerf, why is a 15% aura nerf a 5% bf up? Food ...
i hear you have good feet for thought, true?
mighty pivot
if a 15% aura buff meant a 10% bf nerf, why is a 15% aura nerf a 5% bf up? Food ...
maybe they wanted to reduce cleave a bit, which is whatever. I don't think trickster was stronger than FB though, so I dunno why it is the spec that gets rekt here
vivid vessel
maybe they wanted to reduce cleave a bit, which is whatever. I don't think trick...
wdym its whatever
to reduce the cleave
mighty pivot
if their goal is to reduce cleave for everyone, it's whatever as long as it's balanced between everyone
hasty warren
it's impossible no ?
hasty warren
let's try it
mighty pivot
they added some new aura filters
mighty pivot
you don't see casts. Only yours
vivid vessel
no nvm idk
gloomy coral
probably gets patched in two days ez
mighty pivot
they added new aura filters 1 build ago