#outlaw

1 messages · Page 607 of 1

upper hawk
#

paying to test for 9 weeks. why not

copper radish
#

M+ starts a few weeks after I think 😭

covert kestrel
copper radish
#

Ah got it lmao

gaunt phoenix
#

honestly the opening month of the xpac might be my favorite part

copper radish
#

PvP starts before so at least something to do

#

Get some tier ready for keys from PvP

keen belfry
#

Yea the first month of xpac is usually most fun

#

Love getting first purple gear

frank finch
#

first few weeks of df was peak

copper radish
#

Can get two set from rated PvP a week before keys start 🔥

gaunt phoenix
#

I love when people optimize the shit out of preseason gear

copper radish
#

I’m amped

upper hawk
#

look, i pay for raidbots

copper radish
#

Sword/dag season 1 for an easy swap to sub

upper hawk
#

i'm simming this green shit

gaunt phoenix
#

true

#

i mean like preseason renown grinding

#

when it doesnt matter

glass mortar
#

df pre season was peak times

copper radish
glass mortar
#

the wild west of everyone racing around trying to find which dirt pile was correct to get the best loot

upper hawk
#

these gloves will make the difference

#

oops replaced first week

glass mortar
#

so they could be the highest ilvl when the real content opened (and all the gear was replaced in 0.5 nanoseconds)

gaunt phoenix
#

i get that day 1 mythic prog it would matter a bit

#

do we even get day 1 mythic this time?

upper hawk
#

no

#

well heroic raid is open for a week before mythic and m+ open if that's what you mean

#

at least for the first 2 raids. i don't know. it's all weird

copper radish
upper hawk
#

3rd raid opens 2 weeks aafter the first 2 yeah, but it has all difficulties on open

vivid vessel
#

It's different on beta always has been @balmy topaz

#

Because during the bubble your get scaled

gaunt phoenix
#

oh

#

so anything that cancels on Change Specialization would happen there

vivid vessel
#

Y

cinder relic
#

Its lit

gaunt phoenix
#

shows how many beta keys i did

granite merlin
#

Man I am having a hard time making a ui I like and makes sense to my raptor brain

gaunt phoenix
granite merlin
#

I’m excited for mega delve 🙂

gaunt phoenix
#

i do like engaging with the world for a bit

#

wow is cool !

#

the story is dog ass though what is happening

#

i dont think they could sell this expansion on spooky xalatath void shit alone

cinder relic
#

wdym

granite merlin
#

I mean….did we ever find out what the giant rock sticking through hallowfall was it seemed like they wanted it to be that big sword then were like naaaa fam it’s just some rock or something?

keen belfry
#

might do another beta outlaw key

#

maybe ill feel something today?

gaunt phoenix
copper radish
#

Or is that what everyone expected and they said nah lol

glass mortar
#

the pacing is just awkward

#

like the problem with making a trilogy of expacs like this is it feels tough to have a big payoff at the end of the first or second expac

#

narrative wise we arrived in the new area (dorn), we discovered the conflicts, we spend alot of time setting up our faction "garison" in dorn and transporting the whole army here

#

and then... we went for a side adventure quest to the goblin city with just us and a few named npcs

#

and then we did that again into the void land

#

meanwhile the armies just been chilling in dorn for 2 years

gaunt phoenix
#

i didnt think xalatath was compelling enough to last 2 expansions (or 3)

glass mortar
#

waiting for that big narrative conflict we brought them there for or something

pastel sierra
glass mortar
#

they shoulda done an introduction to the corrupted light forces or the new emperor of light faction in arathi this expac over dimi imo

copper radish
#

Do we think the sword in silithus comes into play in the last titan or it’s just forgotten

glass mortar
#

dimi felt very awkward because it was just 2 seasons in a row of "ok now leave the main narrative to go chase xalatah across a new area thats just you and a few named npcs"

#

u can do that for like a 1 season thing but it feels like you lose the plot thread if ur doing it over and over

cinder relic
#

I mean thats what most of wod and legion were tbf

glass mortar
#

not that dimi wasnt cool

#

idk were they?

#

didnt you have pretty major army factions you build up and traveled with in those later seasons

#

especially argus

#

you had a whole damn space ship command center and were working with the army of light

#

helping them make headway into argus

cinder relic
#

Wod and legion was 90% "WE GOTTA STOP GULDAN"

#

And then just chasing him around thrwarting his plans

glass mortar
#

no thats fine, im talking about how we basically just dropped the plot thread of building up the faction forces for a major conflict for like

#

2 seasons

#

not just the chasing xalatath thing

gaunt phoenix
#

at least suramar and nighthold was goated

glass mortar
#

it felt like we went on a bunch of side quest zones idk

copper radish
gaunt phoenix
#

ye and that was awesome

glass mortar
#

legion was narratively we enter a new zone, we get smacked around, we build up our factions armies and assault the broken shore again, we conquer the citadel, then we join forces with the army of light and invade argus with an army of space ships

#

sure we were chasing guldan the whole time... but narratively it was all part of the same thread

#

TWW just feels a bit disjointed

#

remember thrall? blizzard didnt

gaunt phoenix
#

man if classic goes to legion i prolly would play it again

glass mortar
#

wasnt that guy in the main cinematic for this expac

west ridge
#

tww was like half done story wise before metzen came in and said yo we gotta saga this siht up

glass mortar
#

i like twws story (especially prior to undermine) too, especially alot of its sidequest content

#

lots of cute little stories in the world

#

and i liked undermine even if it felt like a sidequest to the main plot

#

but then s3 also felt like that ig to me

vapid sundial
gaunt phoenix
#

i thought tww preseason+season 1 was really strong

limpid isle
west ridge
#

like im pretty sure karesh was just blizz scrambling to try and link tww to midnight

glass mortar
#

also the xal story is just a little boring at this point

#

i keep hoping blizzard will do something more interesting with her besides "oh yea shes just gunna keep baiting you into helping her then being the villian again and you guys will love it because you love her (toes)!"

gaunt phoenix
glass mortar
#

but so far its all played out as expected

limpid isle
#

legion outlaw, where my finisher ability is named Run Through. we got Saber Slash. oooof nahhhh maybe for canon barrage

copper radish
cinder relic
faint pendant
#

titanforging

vapid sundial
faint pendant
#

titanforging was peak

#

items weren't so boring

glass mortar
#

unpopular opinion: i actually liked original titanforging (what was it, in pandaria?)

sacred rune
glass mortar
#

i think the issue isnt with the mechanic

#

its with how they did it

#

you should never be able to titanforge past your maximum upgrade ilvl

gaunt phoenix
#

titanforging probably should have been capped and not infinite

sacred rune
#

titanforging was capped

gaunt phoenix
#

well sure

sacred rune
#

it wasn't infinite

glass mortar
#

sure but it wasnt capped in "oh look i went into a herioc raid and got an item 6 ilvl above mythic gear"

gaunt phoenix
#

i mean not being able to titanforge world quest items into mythic tier

sacred rune
#

my hot take on it is

#

that it made no diffrence

#

the main problem with titanforging was some items ended up op for the entire xpac kinda

faint pendant
#

arcanocrystal

sacred rune
#

yep

cinder relic
#

theres 2 different systems

sacred rune
#

i talk about arkano

cinder relic
#

theres titanforging, and warforging

glass mortar
#

never talk to me or my 5 arcanocrystals again

cinder relic
#

warforging was +10

sacred rune
#

but outside of arkano, it was whatever

cinder relic
#

titanforging was "Infinite" within the tier ofc

gaunt phoenix
#

my only real gripe was the desire to do so much content cause it might titanforge to greatness

sacred rune
#

someone getting a good item luckily, was actually not that common

#

and if he did, i was happy for him

faint pendant
gaunt phoenix
#

like at some point you should be done with heroic raid and not feel compelled to do it forever for titanforge

sacred rune
#

its just that humans are very petty with these things

glass mortar
#

sorrynotsorry

limpid isle
sacred rune
#

so someone in lfr getting a good titanforge was blamed

upper hawk
#

this compulsion you feel. is it a titanforge problem or a you problem?

glass mortar
#

i mean a majority of the features in this game people min max around are like that, you dont need to do it but a majority feel like they should

sacred rune
#

even tho this player won't compete with anyone on wcl

faint pendant
sacred rune
#

and probably had the time of his live

glass mortar
#

and i think warforging is like that and its better to have the game in a place where you can "complete" gear

glass mortar
#

rolling trinkets all expac

sacred rune
#

getting a super cool shiny high item level piece thats rly good

glass mortar
#

i mean i had a 860 arcano from week 1 withered jim i wore s1/s2

#

then s3 i replaced it with a 915 then a 930 arcano

#

1 trinket slot locked for the whole expac

sacred rune
#

maybe my perspective is scewed tho

glass mortar
sacred rune
#

because i also don't think there should be diffrent currencies per raid difficulty

#

just make it one

glass mortar
#

wdym different currencies

#

oh you mean to upgrade stuff yea i agree

sacred rune
#

well you need normal crests to upgrade normal gear

glass mortar
#

i feel like all this crest nonsense is just a very complicated confusing way of doing what valor did 10 years ago

sacred rune
#

heroic crests for heroic

#

etc.

faint pendant
#

I remember when people were running nighthold during ToS for this

image.png
glass mortar
#

and the complexities it adds to choosing how u gear is not interesting enough to be worth more then that

cinder relic
#

I wouldn't say it was widespread

faint pendant
#

arms and subtlety only

#

?

cinder relic
#

P sure it was fury not arms

#

And idt sb was using it I thought it was outlaw could with a really high titanforge

#

Cuz reck for fury back then was actual atom bomb

#

Trinkets in that era of the game were significantly stronger

sacred rune
#

just talking game design wise

gaunt phoenix
#

frond..,...

sacred rune
#

you woudl always want to release items like this at the end of the xpac

glass mortar
#

frond was fine solo....

sacred rune
#

so last raid

glass mortar
#

only 1 class in the game can use daggers.....

sacred rune
#

especially if, like in legion

glass mortar
#

its ok

#

rogue item.....

#

could use daggers anyway

sacred rune
#

you only had minor item level diffrences.
Remember legion had:
Mythic last tier = equivalent to heroic next tier

jolly geyser
#

Or that souls trinket from guldan

sacred rune
gaunt phoenix
#

wanna bet

cinder relic
granite merlin
sacred rune
#

one reason font was good was damage amps working on items

cinder relic
#

Lol

#

Another broken fury trinket

sacred rune
#

but almost all damage amps ended up reworked to not work on items anymore

cinder relic
#

reck used to give 100% crit iirc

glass mortar
#

thats true all items in that era would probably need a tuning pass because back then some specs masteries and many talents passive mods were applying to direct damage trinkets

cinder relic
#

and this trinket just dropped a bomb

glass mortar
#

so they were budgeted around that

sacred rune
#

oh wait

gaunt phoenix
#

i know Draught was boosted a lot cause of amps

sacred rune
#

i thought abbout draught

#

font was stats

gaunt phoenix
#

yea

sacred rune
#

my bad

limpid isle
sacred rune
#

to my defense legion was quite a while ago

#

🤣

gaunt phoenix
#

this was frond

image.png
copper radish
limpid isle
#

would be peak

torn lichen
keen belfry
#

i still dont know how to prove it but my spriest had an arcanocrystal that like 7x titanforged

glass mortar
#

my priest still has his 5 arcanocrystals in bank

faint pendant
glass mortar
#

unfortunatly their ilvl is lost to the squish

#

but i had a plethora of options

#

was so funny wearing 1 trinket entire expac

faint pendant
keen belfry
#

it legit was better than any trinket in the next tier i think too

glass mortar
#

i want to know how that trinket made it live

sacred rune
#

"fond simming wrong"

#

"fond is simbait"

glass mortar
#

some intern just put a stat stick that had 4X the budget of anything else onto a world boss drop table and nobody bothered to punch it into a calculator

keen belfry
#

the OG

image.png
cinder relic
#

I mean the game just was very different philosphy wise back then

#

Arcano crystal being OP wasn't a mistake

#

It was intentional lol

#

Legion didn't care as much about gear outliers

keen belfry
faint pendant
#

OMEGAKEKW

every rogue ran this

image.png image.png
west ridge
#

imo legion classic is prob the biggest you think you do but you dont

limpid isle
west ridge
#

i feel like people would hate it real quick

keen belfry
glass mortar
#

it was the most dramatic transformation of modern wow (maybe until midnight) id be surprised if they dont do it

limpid isle
glass mortar
#

the real issue is if they want to do wod

keen belfry
#

classic+ enjoyers when they realize they are fucked because they didnt do every WQ for AP and then they cant swap to their alt spec but they got legion classic

glass mortar
#

that would seem less likely then legion to me even, if they decide to do wod classic id be very surprised if the plan wasnt to go thru legion

west ridge
#

its basically all the awful systems that retail has gotten rid of with none of the freshness since its classic

cinder relic
#

So wrong it hurts

glass mortar
#

its also just low effort (not in a bad way) content that is getting them some level of subs

keen belfry
#

legion would be lit if they modernized it hard

glass mortar
#

legion was already pretty modern tho what do u even mean modernize it lol

#

legion was part of the cycle of expacs where borrowed power was garbage except they fixed it 2 patchs thru

keen belfry
#

qol stuff

glass mortar
#

so since u start on end patch stuff

#

those systems will all already be fixed

#

id expect late expac legendary drop rates (no crafting till later season probably of course) and whatnot

limpid isle
west ridge
#

they could make it work

keen belfry
#

It would just require no changes to be changed

glass mortar
#

i could see them stopping with mop or legion but i hope they go into legion

torn lichen
limpid isle
#

nah if you ask me they have titanforged style Legion servers coming, like CNs titanforge Wotlk servers.

#

thats just classic+

keen belfry
#

Speaking of #nochanges

https://youtu.be/iKF9OcncX54?si=YmgRnn1VRVr7XtN8

this is the best wow video IMO

YouTube
MadSeasonShow
How NoChanges Massively Changed Classic WoW

An analysis of the #nochanges movement, and how it resulted in big changes on how Classic World of Warcraft is played.

BC Article: https://www.engadget.com/2007-10-29-first-illidan-china-kill-by-the-seven.html

The Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RBvrA90BY0
Leeway demonstration by Perplexity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3GH5cWPF...

▶ Play video
glass mortar
#

sure im expecting some form of classic+ in NA eventually

#

i doubt the lessons they learned from SoD all got dumped down the toilet

#

SoD was such a banger at the end

limpid isle
#

Rogue Tank pepe_chad

glass mortar
#

that what i leveled

limpid isle
#

shiz was lit af

#

SE was sorta hit or miss tho imma be real

#

naxx 4HM was pretty fun though.

west ridge
#

dont think theres going to be any more classics after mop

#

blizz will probably focus on classic plus when they announce it on blizzcon

glass mortar
#

imo it depends on how far along they are on whatever they r cooking up with classic+

faint pendant
limpid isle
copper radish
#

When I played classic if u lost them WBs it was like log out and try again next week lol

granite merlin
wintry solar
#

#somechanges

#

Is a thing

limpid isle
copper radish
#

Could just feel the rage from their end

granite merlin
#

That was the best

copper radish
#

4 hours of buff run to lose it before raid 😭

wintry solar
#

Legion classic but all the final season QoL fixes and vendors are there day 1

faint pendant
#

great vault in legion classic ye or nay

limpid isle
#

naybe?

wintry solar
#

Nay

#

I love the feast or famine

limpid isle
#

Vault is sorta kinda like ew to some and great for others. just more gacha in reality.

wintry solar
#

But

#

Maybe a reroll feature

granite merlin
limpid isle
wintry solar
#

:O

cinder relic
#

P{eople genuinely hate everything

limpid isle
wintry solar
#

Not me

#

I'm different

#

Literally me

granite merlin
#

It’s like give me all the gear week one so I can quit then complain there is no content that I downloaded an addon to skip and not read.

limpid isle
#

popo = poop (i jk, unless)
am i doing it right? sorry Im new here.

wintry solar
#

You gotta earn that

limpid isle
#

i know i just seen it often

#

lol

wintry solar
#

By peopled who earned it

#

Mhm mhm

limpid isle
granite merlin
#

Everyone always talks about how great classic was…..and all the fun memories. But like classic don’t have flying mounts. And you have to fight your way to quest bosses not just fly over drop in kill and mount out

wintry solar
#

Classic players like that

#

You just listed positives lol

#

They don't want flying, they don't even want transmog

limpid isle
#

classic players like the world of the game. not so much the actual game in reality. I do NOT miss classic banking

tribal cosmos
#

They want the feeling of the unknown

#

Too bad

frail veldt
granite merlin
#

Yes but they all now play retail and complain they would never give up flying but feel the game lacks content……I’m like then do the effing content.

tribal cosmos
#

Game does lack content

strange kelp
#

They also play TBC

tribal cosmos
#

Theyre not wrong

#

How many months between expansions

strange kelp
#

TBC prepatch had quite a large player base

tribal cosmos
#

How much content per expansion per raid

limpid isle
#

Classic Era players are pretty chill, they just stay in their lane and enjoy. i respect that pepe_chad

tribal cosmos
#

Its hardly worth the money to em

frail veldt
#

Yeah there was more content in classic wow than we get across multiple expansions nowadays

tribal cosmos
#

80+ dollars for expansion

frank finch
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
tribal cosmos
#

15 bucks a month to play wow

granite merlin
#

Well mobs we’re hard and had levels lol

tribal cosmos
#

Crazy mondy

#

95 dollars to play 1 month of an expansion minimum

#

130 dollars + for collectors

#

And through out a year how many months do players usually play

#

1-2 maybe

heavy shadow
#

Hey fellow rogues, anyone worked out a nice way to see combo points on standard blizz resource / plates?

tribal cosmos
#

99% of players log on do quest and afk

wintry solar
#

Yeah man, totally less content than we had in MoP

livid pewter
#

anyone using plater in prepatch and knows how to get cc's on left/right side of the healthbar without changing all auras too?

image.png
heavy shadow
#

Can you still use plater? I thought the point was they were stopping the other addons

tribal cosmos
#

Mop was during the shift of blizzard

#

Were talking the oldge content

wintry solar
#

Then you're even more wrong

limpid isle
tribal cosmos
#

Shit 99% of people logged on and didnt know what would happen next

gaunt phoenix
tribal cosmos
#

Leveling was a journey

#

Questing was fun

#

Making friends were a given

#

Now you log in queue m+ or pvp and fking crash out when one swirlie was unseen

#

Gg

wintry solar
#

I like shooting the shit in trade chat

limpid isle
#

this is what mop is for. its farmville boispoggers

image.png
wintry solar
#

That's good content

heavy shadow
#

I am okay with standard blizz UI for now tbh, but it seems they don't have a nice way to see your combo points on your target

tribal cosmos
#

Yea

#

So youre cooked bud

real falcon
limpid isle
tribal cosmos
#

Get the addon or play bm hunter

real falcon
#

Iirc thats what its called

wintry solar
tribal cosmos
#

Retail isnt 99% bots

heavy shadow
gaunt phoenix
#

well he wants combo points on enemy nameplates

#

sensei wont do that

tribal cosmos
#

Is bots on trade chat

wintry solar
#

SoD is still pretty active

tribal cosmos
#

I go to trade chat i see the crafter bots fly

real falcon
#

But sensei makes it easier to see. Better than personal resource display

#

Providing a possible solution

tribal cosmos
#

Why doesnt he just use luxthos wa ?

strange kelp
#

The only bar we support here is wangbar

placid gorge
#

how ouwlaw these day?

tribal cosmos
real falcon
#

WA is not updated i thought

tribal cosmos
#

Its not

#

Thats then joke

real falcon
#

Oh

gaunt phoenix
#

good one

real falcon
#

r/whoosh

tribal cosmos
#

25 addons to mimic the fraction of old addons

real falcon
livid pewter
tribal cosmos
#

Is outlaw still flat as fuck

gaunt phoenix
#

sort of

real falcon
#

No Double Ds

limpid isle
tribal cosmos
#

So they aint the best

#

Whoever has the highest peak is the best rogue spec

#

For raiding dat is

real falcon
#

Rip sub

tribal cosmos
#

Damage amp or timer based mechanics always murder flat classes

gaunt phoenix
#

with menacing rush it's more like a wave

wintry solar
#

Dude

#

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

placid gorge
#

all i wanna know is do i need to stealth

wintry solar
#

There's a connection here

tribal cosmos
#

I heard bm hunter has less buttons then my league of legends champions

placid gorge
#

and vanish

real falcon
#

No

placid gorge
tribal cosmos
#

HAHAHAHAH

#

im playing bm hunter

real falcon
#

Checks out

tribal cosmos
#

The memes are too good

real falcon
#

Isn't devourer 4 buttons or so too?

tribal cosmos
#

Playing melee is just too much work

#

Sub is 2 button burst

placid gorge
#

i love when sub aoe rotation is just bomb and finisher

tribal cosmos
placid gorge
#

*was

real falcon
#

Sub is miserable to play now

tribal cosmos
#

Now its shuriken bp

placid gorge
#

aint that always?

tribal cosmos
#

Shuriken bp

#

Shuriken bp

real falcon
#

Lol true

tribal cosmos
#

Bs evi

#

Bs evi

#

Bs evo

real falcon
#

Directions unclear i logged onto terraria

timid portal
#

@copper radish how do u get the 2 set from pvp?

copper radish
placid gorge
#

guess i should resub 1 week before launch

#

to level alts

timid portal
placid gorge
#

and get acquaint with the new outlaw rotation

copper radish
strange kelp
#

It is

#

And aotc

summer idol
#

hi

gaunt phoenix
#

hi

inland meteor
#

hi

livid pewter
#

hi

fossil lintel
gaunt phoenix
#

about every 40-45s

fossil lintel
#

and did our std deviation go up or down?

gaunt phoenix
#

up up and away

fossil lintel
#

Oh shit

#

why?

gaunt phoenix
#

i didnt deep dive into why

#

perhaps because stage 4 rtb is very strong

fossil lintel
#

so we got a very top heavy bellcurve?

gaunt phoenix
#

a little

placid gorge
#

so the meme of the straight line dps is no more?

gaunt phoenix
#

the Zero In talent is perhaps considerable rng

placid gorge
#

do we have a burst phase now

gaunt phoenix
#

no outlaw doesnt burst

placid gorge
#

or just do eveyrthing on cd

gaunt phoenix
#

adrenaline rush is just decently stronger than outside of it

placid gorge
#

huh?

fossil lintel
#

Yeah compared to tww s3 curve, it was much closer to an even spread, this one is 25k up and 18k down ish

placid gorge
#

so a little spike?

gaunt phoenix
#

it's a wave

image.png
fossil lintel
#

Oh that's much flatter than short cd specs

gaunt phoenix
#

well it averages like this since our cooldowns become variable timings

fossil lintel
#

When you said wave i thought ret-style wave

gaunt phoenix
#

nah

fossil lintel
#

where it feels almost like a sine wave

#

is that using prep?

placid gorge
gaunt phoenix
#

yes, the late spike is prep

placid gorge
#

prep wot

gaunt phoenix
#

since that is guaranteed for each iteration

keen belfry
#

what even is the point of AR chat

fossil lintel
#

it's to recover energy

gaunt phoenix
#

the prep spike kind of illustrates how AR spikes you in general regardless of variable cds

placid gorge
#

more energy regen --> more hit

#

just need that one OP trinket to burst

#

trust

keen belfry
#

i dont thnk AR saves me from proccing a tea

thorn parrot
#

More energy, more hotels, more Trivago

placid gorge
#

i remember that trinket from HFC taht like bank ur dmg and explode

gaunt phoenix
#

and then menacing rush

keen belfry
#

i mean technically and objectively yes

fossil lintel
#

plus 20% damage on top

gaunt phoenix
#

40% dmg !

placid gorge
#

dont think it directly translate but yeah thats the iead

#

idea

gaunt phoenix
#

it more or less does translate like that

glass mortar
#

keep in mind that damage graph is always flatter then outlaws actual profile because where it casts AR shifts almost every iteration (outside the opener)

#

due to our rng nature

#

it was the same for crackshot tho

gaunt phoenix
#

i already typed that

glass mortar
#

its just now the places where outlaw spikes is completely outside ur control

placid gorge
#

just 5 rolls on opener bro

glass mortar
#

oh wtf im missing like 10 minutes of messages on mobile

#

i just sat down and saw that mb

gaunt phoenix
#

skill issued it seems

glass mortar
#

wifi issued

placid gorge
#

this rings true with this spec/class

fossil lintel
#

wait, isn't that timeline just a single iteration example?

gaunt phoenix
#

No that's the total average

glass mortar
#

no thats the average over all iterations

#

gdi my lags too big

fossil lintel
#

Oh okay

glass mortar
#

solo wins

placid gorge
#

well since raid design have been. what the word, homogenized? like we knida know what fight we gonna get, more or less

fossil lintel
#

so we aint necessarily flat we're just fucking random

glass mortar
#

crackshot wasnt really flat either

#

flat is relative to real burst specs

gaunt phoenix
#

sample 1 iteration lol

image.png
glass mortar
#

its rare flat specs r truly flat

#

^

placid gorge
#

now taht a real fluctuation

gaunt phoenix
#

ye i mean your logs will look like that

placid gorge
#

me casual

glass mortar
#

now u have bte reset and stacks, ars floating cd and bte crits to add pure randomsauce to ur damage profile kinda unrelated to gameplay decisions

placid gorge
#

i dont even look at my log

glass mortar
#

well basically completely unrelated to gameplay decisions

#

yay more variance

#

idc as long as the gameplay variance remains reasonable i guess

placid gorge
#

and on top of that

#

no WA

gaunt phoenix
#

i want to say Zero In and Ace resets probably balance each other kinda

#

if you get lucky with ace then your zero in sucks

glass mortar
#

but if u get lucky with crit zero in also sucks

gaunt phoenix
#

if you dont ace then your zero in is awooga

placid gorge
#

but what about the 5 roll?

glass mortar
#

idk i wish theyd just removed the increased crit damage from bte

fossil lintel
#

it's a 4 roll now

#

blizz took one full roll away from us

shy meteor
#

!fuu

ornate heathBOT
placid gorge
#

oh damn i;ve been away for too long

glass mortar
#

they wanted crit to be our best stat i get that but its pretty much always been just more damage variance for the profile with no gameplay benifit

placid gorge
#

i mean

#

haste got a cap

#

mastery is well, crap

#

vers got gutted i heard?

#

so thats left crit

glass mortar
#

vers did not get touched

fossil lintel
#

haste doesn't have a cap

glass mortar
#

every single stat was a failure for outlaw basically forever

placid gorge
#

dimishing return?

glass mortar
#

they finally gave us some real stats

#

so now vers is meh

fossil lintel
#

we are now so energy starved we want more

glass mortar
#

we wanted vers because everything for outlaw was bad, not because vers was somehow amped for us always

fossil lintel
#

we're playing 30% haste on pre patch

gaunt phoenix
#

on beta haste will softcap around 25%

glass mortar
#

is a good way to look at it

#

they made the other stats better so now we want them over vers (Except mastery even 150% buff couldnt save it apparently)

placid gorge
#

yeah vers was like

#

the least badly weighted stat i suppose?

gaunt phoenix
#

some iteration got 99% uptime on jackpot

image.png
placid gorge
#

is that like

#

an outlier?

gaunt phoenix
#

jackpot is 4 roll

#

ye

glass mortar
#

vers is just a basic multiplier with no interactions that every spec in the game scales similuarly off of so how "good" it is is a test for how well other secondaries work for u yea

random stirrup
fossil lintel
#

well it's like 10% chance to roll it now right?

placid gorge
#

10% is greattt

fossil lintel
#

not like the old 1% of 5 roll

placid gorge
#

great when u in burn phase of whatever boss

gaunt phoenix
#

5% raw and 15% with loaded dice

#

it might be 4% / 14%

#

dont know exactly

placid gorge
#

and do we take loaded dice?

gaunt phoenix
#

yeah ld is one of the strongest talents in the tree

keen belfry
#

solo is there anyway to check if saving your 2nd AR to line up with your first gravedigger stacks is worth

placid gorge
#

or the loaded dice path is in a viable build?

#

there are some tradeoff i guess?

fossil lintel
#

how much is the other rtb talent worth?

gaunt phoenix
#

there is but i stopped reading at saving AR

placid gorge
#

lol

#

that like an affront here i think

#

:))))))))))))

keen belfry
#

its like

#

so close to getting apex bte in your first AR

fossil lintel
#

it's fine just line it with prep

gaunt phoenix
#

the coveted apex proc for 30 billion damage

glass mortar
#

why would u care about getting the apex proc inside ur ar

#

does the apex even make it do more damage

#

its just a guarenteed proc

keen belfry
#

think

glass mortar
#

a single one

#

and ur losing resource usage over a fight ever trying to save something like it

keen belfry
#

iw as told AR = 40% dmg

placid gorge
#

wehre can i read about the new rotation/talent tree again?

gaunt phoenix
#

my faq

keen belfry
placid gorge
#

yeah saw that in pin

glass mortar
#

glad to hear it maybe u wont type such drivel in this chat anymore 🥰

gaunt phoenix
#

damn

glass mortar
#

awangaura only

#

what i wanna see

#

😠

#

aurang

keen belfry
#

if AR is so much spikey 40% dmg master gain maybe there could be potential worth in getting BTE (Dmg gain buff if oyu didnt know weran) in our AR!

gaunt phoenix
#

it's okay i see the vision awang

keen belfry
#

i didnt think i had to type it out so much

placid gorge
#

how we dealing with the WA thing?

inland meteor
#

can we expect awangraidframes soon

#

wangframes

gaunt phoenix
#

for outlaw the cooldown manager is sufficient enough

#

it sucks not having WA to instantly make poison reminders or what have you though

glass mortar
#

i thought u were just holding AR for fun

gaunt phoenix
#

okay stop it

placid gorge
#

wait the dev didnt publish the actual % of RtB and we found out via sim?

#

damn

quaint wharf
glass mortar
gaunt phoenix
keen belfry
#

weran fiesty today

placid gorge
#

still from actual stats and not from the dev themselvs

keen belfry
#

hes been mansplaining in chat all day

placid gorge
#

is it really mansplaining if u do it to a bunch of dudes

glass mortar
#

no u triggered me because our apex is dogpoop

proven ocean
#

gnawa

glass mortar
#

and i saw it as a reason to respond and insult our apex more

#

🥰

#

i hope ur having a wonderful day awangangang

fossil lintel
#

how many BTEs do we have to line up to be top damage on 30 sec wipes?

glass mortar
#

from what ive seen playing other specs i feel like burst is down across the whole game tbh

#

even the bursty profiles r doing less in their respective cds now so that might not even be a meme

gaunt phoenix
#

i want to say double AR during lust with prep is not horrendous

#

noticeable at least

quaint wharf
#

how much of a loss is using bte before slice in the open

gaunt phoenix
#

like 0.3% over 5 min

strange kelp
#

Does prep get any CDR?

gaunt phoenix
#

nop

strange kelp
#

Rip

quaint wharf
#

hmm ok not that bad

fossil lintel
strange kelp
#

I mean then you'd prob want to save prep to use for dmg phase or adds or w/e unless it's 100% standard patchwork style fight no?

gaunt phoenix
#

yeah, depends on kill timer

glass mortar
#

preps maximum value in sims where ur getting like 2 full uses a fight was only 3% ish right

gaunt phoenix
#

yep

glass mortar
#

the best usage will probably almost always be using it to get an AR on an important phase

#

since even then ur only giving up a few % overall

#

its just awkward because of the nature of AR variance

#

if u try to use it that way u will end up with pulls where AR naturally aligns with what u want and prep is practically wasted

#

2 charges of AR when

gaunt phoenix
#

if the burst is longer than 15 seconds

fossil lintel
#

But if we get 2 charges we may want to save AR, and jus the thought of saving AR is blasphemous

glass mortar
#

thats true if theres any marathon 25-30 second burn windows outlaw is gunna pop off

placid gorge
glass mortar
#

i dont think anyone else except boomkin and dev and WW can make their cds work for that long

#

maybe shadow as well...

#

ok maybe its more people then i thought

gaunt phoenix
#

it would still end up weird cases where you can only get 1 AR during burst vs 2

strange kelp
placid gorge
gaunt phoenix
#

2 charges would entirely complete outlaw i swear

#

would not complain about anything

glass mortar
#

2 charges would fix me

fossil lintel
#

I just wish we had one decent capstone

glass mortar
#

😩

placid gorge
#

u mean we got an on demand AR?

fossil lintel
#

You know, something exciting to press or play around

placid gorge
#

that asking too much

strange kelp
glass mortar
#

in a vacuum 2 charges would effect to 1 additional usage of AR per fight

#

so no

fossil lintel
gaunt phoenix
#

nope, 2 charges would not regen themselves at the same time, on patchwerk it would be 1 extra AR at the start and some change

strange kelp
#

I guess you already get CDR on it while it's active so I was just thinking wrong

glass mortar
#

all 2 charges lets u do is float a usage to wherever u want on the fight

#

without losing any cdr efficiency

keen belfry
#

what about never kir'ing a low duration buff? everytime you KIR a low buff you lose a LD basically, or it seems like it

glass mortar
#

similar to what prep does, prep just does it awkwardly

#

technically prep gives u more raw AR casts at less efficiency if ur minmaxing preps cd itself

#

but id prefer charges gameplay wise

#

especially with prep on the gcd

placid gorge
#

prep remind me of units in gacha game that full reset ur skill cd

glass mortar
placid gorge
#

those units are OP

fossil lintel
keen belfry
#

awang invented that rule

glass mortar
#

is that true

keen belfry
#

yes

gaunt phoenix
#

yes

glass mortar
#

if so that section had better becalled the wang kir rule

#

wang rolling?

#

wang roll optimization

fossil lintel
#

Wang roll

strange kelp
#

Keep it wanging

keen belfry
#

KIR is just a really weird button now

fossil lintel
#

Wang it

keen belfry
#

we approach kir different now

fossil lintel
#

I wish kir could just upgrade by one along with the duration

glass mortar
#

its a variance reducer rather then a highlight

keen belfry
#

i view it as a letting u fuinction as a spec button now

glass mortar
#

dissapointing role for it compared to before imo

#

HO and kir both shoulda got real recooks for this version of law

strange kelp
keen belfry
#

and kir'ing a low duration buff seems to lose you a LD almost always, which to me is bad rn

#

we cant really waste LD rolls

gaunt phoenix
#

you do waste like 30% of loaded dice procs though i cant get a definite way to get around it

fossil lintel
keen belfry
#

could it be low duration KIR extendos

#

like i was just hitting dummy and had to pick between 25 seconds on 3 buff, or losing a LD

gaunt phoenix
#

i think the current rule is already enough wasted cdr on kir

placid gorge
gaunt phoenix
#

maybe if you know you wont get another kir

glass mortar
#

this version of kir woulda been better as my original tomfoolery kir redesign maybe

keen belfry
#

yeah fight timer stuff is always weird for rules like this

placid gorge
#

why cant we got simple button like warrior or pally, press it during burst phase, win

glass mortar
#

halve the cd, give it 2 charges and halve the extension duration

#

i feel like a broken record but 2 charges of almost any ability outlaw has on a cooldown would fix me

#

this spec is made for charges

#

crazy how hard they fight giving it to us

proven ocean
gaunt phoenix
#

i will try some things with kir fight timer

placid gorge
gaunt phoenix
#

i guess you dont really need a sim to tell you to optimize the final cast of kir

proven ocean
#

wait why did it send twice

#

idk

keen belfry
#

i just wonder how much KIR CDR wasted even matters

#

if u can keep your 2+ buff

#

but maybe it means u lsoe a 3 or 4 extendo cuz of it

glass mortar
#

didnt the awang rule make it so sims on average lose an entire cast of kir

#

and it just didnt matter

keen belfry
#

like literally anytime at 1 buff has to be giga dps loss

#

in terms of energy and actual dps

glass mortar
#

zac was saying that like a month ago

#

new RtB is cursed because if u ever have 1 buff its always just balls

keen belfry
#

u burn thru 2 teas like its nothing at 1 buff

glass mortar
#

the secret was to never let u have a 1 buff

keen belfry
#

kir needed

#

fix our talent tree

#

so we can take kir every time

gaunt phoenix
#

would you believe me if i said kir is more variance than not

fossil lintel
#

Bake in the basically required to take point that just makes rtb better and put kir in its place

keen belfry
#

well it shigh roll variance right?

glass mortar
#

it should cut down on low end variance but increase high end tho doesnt it

gaunt phoenix
#

im pretty sure extending stage 4 is just cracked out

keen belfry
#

it is

glass mortar
#

idk if theres an easy way to see that

keen belfry
#

stage 4 is very cracked

#

when i say variance in terms of outlaw, i normally am just talking about the low lows i guess

#

which KIR probably avoids better?

#

maybe/

fossil lintel
#

We don't talk about the 6x SS times here

#

You'll trigger PTSD on people

keen belfry
#

dude ive had some bad SS momnets still, and i feel like u never recover

#

but they are very rare

glass mortar
#

imagine when we r feinting every 20s on hard bosses in raid awang

fossil lintel
#

It's the 1 buff 6 SS in a row times

glass mortar
#

remove feint energy cost when

keen belfry
#

energy

#

needs to be

#

redbulled

#

zeross needs to redesign it

glass mortar
#

zeross talent where u have unlimited tea charges but every tea consumed within 1 minute of the last does amping self damage

#

caffiene addiction

placid gorge
#

sure

#

with feint and cloak

glass mortar
#

i dont think thats gunna be an issue when was the last time anyone stacked rogues to do that

keen belfry
#

our non capstone m+ build needs to be removed

fossil lintel
#

Nah

glass mortar
#

we are only less tanky and capable of doing that then we were for the last 5 years so

keen belfry
#

and i hear its ognna be non ace m+ build?????

gaunt phoenix
#

nah i was wrong

#

we will remove Summarily Dispatched before ace

keen belfry
#

for kir?

gaunt phoenix
#

for menacing rush

#

or kir

craggy barn
#

whats the delta

gaunt phoenix
#

trickster has neither

#

unless you remove something

keen belfry
#

trickser so funny

placid gorge
#

so which apex we taking? or its just a flavor thing ?

gaunt phoenix
#

you dont have a voice

#

choice even

fossil lintel
gaunt phoenix
#

apex is 1 talent

placid gorge
#

jesus

gaunt phoenix
#

with 4 nodes

placid gorge
#

oh i mean the master spec i mean

strange kelp
fossil lintel
#

We run fatebound

gaunt phoenix
#

for now fatebound is ahead on beta but trickster is one hotfix away

fossil lintel
#

Thankfully

gaunt phoenix
#

would not count it out

placid gorge
#

would they balance it by brining one up? or nefting one down?

#

bringing

fossil lintel
gaunt phoenix
#

i think they should bring trickster up by specifically buffing killing spree but only as a node in trickster

glass mortar
#

good let trickster rot i needs more haste its energy sucks and its gameplay (kspree) only makes the spec less fun to play

placid gorge
#

is KS a good button to press now?

glass mortar
#

yea if the way they buffed it was making one of its pain points less painful that would work

fossil lintel
placid gorge
#

i saw the remaster/rework post

glass mortar
#

ks is awful

placid gorge
#

but didnt check out in game

fossil lintel
#

KS is like a bad joke

gaunt phoenix
#

it's perhaps not as terrible as people make it sound

placid gorge
#

has it ever been good at one point?

gaunt phoenix
#

but it's not great

fossil lintel
#

It was meta last season

glass mortar
#

good numerically yes, good gameplay wise, not really

fossil lintel
#

Well, past 2 seasons

glass mortar
#

theres been people who liked various versions of id but idk if id call any of them healthy for the game

#

closest it ever was was probably when it was just a free energy regen tool we didnt use on cd in early df

gaunt phoenix
#

the random targeting has to go especially if we only cleave like 40% of it

#

just make the entire thing aoe around you

placid gorge
#

so like a whirlwind u say

#

badum

glass mortar
#

it should just shoot ur target and bf normally or it should hit all targets like a wildfire bomb cone or something

fossil lintel
#

Solo, do we cancel it at max cp currently?

glass mortar
#

not this cursed middle ground

gaunt phoenix
#

not a defined rule but you CAN cancel it during adrenaline rush cause it feels better

fossil lintel
#

Sometimes I get bored of it and cancel at 6 cp even

placid gorge
#

soo mechanically, u just teleporting randomly and hit mobs?

fossil lintel
gaunt phoenix
#

no killing spree is a shotgun spray of gunfire now

placid gorge
#

damn they gutted it like they gutted barrage for hunter

gaunt phoenix
#

not literally shotgun it's single target+bf

craggy barn
#

it randomly targets 1 mob in a cone in front of you

fossil lintel
#

And it's a long ass channel, half a sec per cp

gaunt phoenix
placid gorge
#

so 3s?

#

that is a long channel for melee

fossil lintel
#

You can move during it

glass mortar
#

its 5s base and hasted

fossil lintel
#

And it is hasted

glass mortar
#

at max cp

fossil lintel
#

5s is supercharged which we don't run anymore

glass mortar
#

well i guess we dont have blue cp anymore to dodge putting into it

#

ye tru

#

so 4s at max, and hasted

random cosmos
#

!ui

ornate heathBOT
fossil lintel
#

It's now 3.5s max

proven ocean
glass mortar
#

it also hits much less hard, in TWW it was at least a kinda fake burst button

proven ocean
glass mortar
#

u did as much damage as a crackshot window during it

proven ocean
#

ok i'll stop

glass mortar
#

ok tonight i will reinstall wow

#

finally got my internet working and my pc off shitty wifi

proven ocean
low glade
gaunt phoenix
#

that cat has some condition i feel bad for it

low glade
proven ocean
low glade
#

man people pathologize anything smh

proven ocean
proven ocean
keen belfry
#

i still feel like there has to be something that can be found relating to maximizing BTE stacks in AR

placid gorge
#

will there be any big change on launch? or just some aura buff and hotfix?

glass mortar
#

i wish there was awang

#

our apex is a failure of design 😠

#

so many ways they coulda hooked it into gameplay to add potential small rules

#

maybe u will still find one

#

im praying 4 u

keen belfry
#

world of warcraft: pissnight world soul shitta

fossil lintel
random stirrup
#

That does indeed look like what happened when we put a harness on my cat for the first time

fossil lintel
#

You can see he's going backwards because he feels something holding him and wants to get out of it

#

Yeah

keen belfry
#

cat harness story: my cousin got a harness for one of his two cats, after the hardness was put on the 2 cats became mortal enemies and had to be seperated betweeen the mom and dads house

fossil lintel
#

Mine started walking super low like it was being held down the first time

fossil lintel
glass mortar
#

they didnt recognize each other anymore had had to murder the stranger cat obviously

keen belfry
#

i dont remember the exact deets

glass mortar
#

i remember when we got a harness for our dog and tried to train her to use it for hikes so she could carry her own snacks and water

keen belfry
#

but doddge and kia could no longer live together

glass mortar
#

and she just acted like we were punishing her whenever we put it on

#

which got my dad to take it off her

fossil lintel
#

Would need to reintroduce them from 0 for them to live together again, cat fights are very serious

proven ocean
#

gnawa is here, fk.. me hide

keen belfry
#

marvin the cat whisperer

#

zeross the cow

gaunt phoenix
fossil lintel
#

Get a cat, put a harness on it for the first time and then scare him, easy to replicate

narrow crystal
#

Guys what are you focusing for the hero talent M+ atm ? Trickster ??

gaunt phoenix
#

in prepatch we are trickster yea

glass mortar
#

did they ever buff the new fatebound defensive talent

gaunt phoenix
#

nop

glass mortar
#

does it still heal for 0.07% hp per coin flip

#

baaaaaased

narrow crystal
keen belfry
#

how can i accurately log in beta? when i hit dummies my dmg looks wacky in wcl, i think related to the dummy health

fossil lintel
#

Maybe your damage is just wacky?

gaunt phoenix
#

the damage breakdown should be normal

#

the graph thing does weirdly spike

keen belfry
fossil lintel
#

Oh

#

Enable overkill damage

gaunt phoenix
#

but i'd reckon it's just a display thing

fathom bramble
#

hit include overkill

keen belfry
#

ty

#

goat.

#

so this is just 4 minutes of dummy

#

blue bar is AR buff

fossil lintel
#

Did you prep?

keen belfry
#

yeah

glass mortar
#

right so u can hit in AR damage with just rng outside AR windows

#

but its a consistent high damage phase

#

basically the same profile as crackshot tbh

#

except with less control over it and whatnot

#

do another test with drums so we can see that sick lust damage peak in opener with prep @keen belfry

gaunt phoenix
#

true

keen belfry
#

someone log on and lust for me

glass mortar
#

ok nitro is dangerous

keen belfry
#

the fact i peaked 3 minutes in, no prep

#

very interesting!

glass mortar
#

i tried to post a cozy emote and the first recommended emote from my GUILDS server is just a cartoon dick sipping tea in a cozy outfit

fossil lintel
keen belfry
#

lucky coin naturally covering most of AR too?

#

i was basically perma 3 buff, no jackpot

#

71% 3, the rest 2 buff

gaunt phoenix
#

no one raid testing outlaw has crit gear

glass mortar
#

dont those guys read the guides???

#

people r gunna accuse outlaw of sandbagging

gaunt phoenix
glass mortar
#

because nobody has ever played this spec so all the new people playing it r gearing wrong

gaunt phoenix
#

oh he also didnt use prep

keen belfry
#

i was just curous about what our dmg looked like in direct relation to ar

#

like yes 40% more globals big

#

but sometimes those globals are just worse in AR than ther due to random stuff

#

which is my gripe with AR becoming closer to a normal ish CD in terms of uptime

#

like just cuz i take 40% more showers doesnt mean im cleaner if i dont shampoo or soap right guys?

#

well said awang

wintry solar
#

you can overshower

fathom bramble
#

well the 25% more global is on paper not even that strong compared to some of these other class cooldown line ups

#

even if we take menacing it's not that impressive

glass mortar
#

its less of an amp then the rng amps of the basic rotation

#

thats why you can spike higher then AR outside AR

keen belfry
#

like, to me this isnt an amp that AR is made out to be (the green columns are AR uptime)

image.png
glass mortar
#

it sounds bigger then it is yea

fathom bramble
#

very easy for a 25% boost to just get lost in the noise

vestal notch
#

is that with menacing rush?

keen belfry
#

if AR is a 30% uptime thing i should press it be like okay my dmg was good there cause of AR ya know

glass mortar
#

its also none of ur passive damage which makes up a significant amount of our profile now

keen belfry
#

right now its my dmg was good there cause i got AR + BTE proc + good rtb buff + zero in etc etc

glass mortar
#

the damage that menacing rush amps

#

so its less then its tooltip value by what, like 20%?

gaunt phoenix
#

tbf if you removed AR completely you dont get loaded dice

glass mortar
#

maybe closer to 30%

fathom bramble
#

like from that Holdthis log

#

where is AR

gaunt phoenix
#

lol

fathom bramble
#

this also isn't new or news btw

#

it's just how AR is

#

25% more globals feels way better than it actually is

keen belfry
pastel sierra
keen belfry
#

this is why i think AR is pointless atm to me

#

its a generator, that gives us LD

glass mortar
#

its weird

#

feels like it should be higher uptime

fathom bramble
#

it does keep the entire feedback loop moving

gaunt phoenix
#

i think it's a good cooldown-but-not

#

that's outlaw

fathom bramble
#

like it's still strong

gaunt phoenix
fathom bramble
#

it just isn't burst

glass mortar
#

feels like its the same strenght its always been for outlaw (next to nothing) but its uptime is lower then its ever been

#

lower then i ever remember it being anyway

#

should be like 40-50%

fathom bramble
glass mortar
#

i tried lok

#

the middle is nomans land

#

and the duration is w/e i wasnt looking at the bottom numbers cause that felt too meta

keen belfry
#

like this is how i envision a 30-40% cd uptime spec

image.png
pastel sierra
fathom bramble
#

that's true too

pastel sierra
#

so currently it's a 9% dmg amp for whenever AR is up

keen belfry
fathom bramble
#

it also doesn't include blade rush, poisons, scoundrel strike, or coins

glass mortar
#

it doesnt include a lot of ur damage yea

fathom bramble
#

like if you add up everything we do that isn't on menacing it's ~50%

#

51% in the holdthis that was linked

frank finch
#

thats me 😄

gaunt phoenix
glass mortar
#

it should probably just be all damage sourced to outlaw except melee since melee is already double dipping AR (assuming u have the SnD talent)