outlaw

[glass mortar]

all of the energy classes r low pop

druid is carried by boomkin and resto

theres zero feral

[frail veldt]

same with ww haha

[glass mortar]

ww is usually pretty low pop

[wintry solar]

r1 btw

[granite merlin]

Windwalker leads a lonely life

[glass mortar]

brm isnt always but tank players are madmen who tend to just play whatevers good so it shifts around alot

[cinder relic]

This also isn't an issue to solve, it's just a fact of the matter

[granite merlin]

All my tank friends have all the tanks and are spastic about which they play

[glass mortar]

yea for sure i think its important for devs to recognize maybe its not gameplay issues making these things unpop, its just being low fantasy and this flavor

you want a broad spectrums of playstyles and flavors for people but some of them ending up less popular is not always a design issue

[wintry solar]

making it pirate would help

mhm mhm

[cinder relic]

What explains cata then lol. Its not like cata had these crazy modern wow visuals

[mighty pivot]

I'm proud of you

[fathom bramble]

having underplayed archetypes actually existing in the game is a good thing

[wintry solar]

a good amount of people would call cata peak design for what they main

[fathom bramble]

and trying to fix them can only result in ruining what makes them unique

[wintry solar]

idk

[cinder relic]

Yep

[wintry solar]

if cata was peak, classic wouldnt have died within 3 months

[granite merlin]

Well another reason rogues have an issue imo is they bring less utility, you have e a healer, a lust class a tank, and hopefully a combat Rez then sometimes you build additional synergies. Ultimately to 99.9% of population synergies doesn’t matter but sheep are stupid

[glass mortar]

our raid utility could be stronger

it probably should be

[frail veldt]

I think rogue has a lot of painpoints that are off putting to players unless the fantasy really calls to them

[glass mortar]

we had a kinda hidden raid utility in the past where rogue never died

[frail veldt]

stealth frankly sucks ass

[glass mortar]

sub and outlaw anyway

u would always be the last one alive on a wipe and u didnt need much healing

it kinda made up for having zero utility tbh

thats gone tho

[cinder relic]

Raid buffs existed cata as well and rogue was also bottom 2 playrate

[latent oak]

also the bugged iteration of no parries was nice with trickster

[granite merlin]

I played rogue because I loved the verse class

Now that’s dead

[cinder relic]

This isn't gone

Stop saying this shit

[frail veldt]

yeah when did rogue drop off cuz I thought in classic it was fairly popular

[glass mortar]

i mean sin plays like a squishy melee in raid compared to sub and outlaw and now outlaw is as squishy as sin

feinting makes ur gameplay less fun

[frail veldt]

I think it could be more that the other classes caught up and pulled people away who used to like rogue

[tender wedge]

it was popular in classic because it was pvp god and one of the few dps classes that actually could do damage

[frail veldt]

yeah

[granite merlin]

lol my friend group loved me on outlaw cause healer did t need to heal me

[tender wedge]

i.e. it's been riding on tuning since day 1

[glass mortar]

idk defensive wise it looks ass. we r still tanky enough to live like a normal class sure, but we arent one of the tankiest mf in the game

[cinder relic]

Sin plays like a squishy melee in raid? In what world lmao

[glass mortar]

which was my point

[frail veldt]

I always hear from raiders that rogue is squishy

[cinder relic]

From who

[glass mortar]

not that we are too squishy, that we used to be super tanky and it kinda made up for having less utility

[granite merlin]

I was way squishier on assassination

Very noticeable

[glass mortar]

i mean sin was the squishiest rogue spec and it was by a lot, outlaw was absurdly tanky since df

even prior to

[frail veldt]

honestly everyone ive heard mention it haha even Max referenced rogue being squishy but I personally dont undestand how with how strong feint is for aoe and I feel like raid has a lot of aoe damage

[fathom bramble]

rogue can become very squishy when you encounter something that bypasses feint and cloak

it's rare, but I think it changes perception a lot

[granite merlin]

My buddy commented that he hated me on assassination cause he felt like I was quick to drop on certain mechanics

[tender wedge]

outlaw and sub have also been stacking vers for awhile

[glass mortar]

idk i feel like in modern raid the big serious aoe mechanics you need to use a defensive for, 90% of the specs in the game can have stuff for all of them now with charges on walls and such

and we of course can do it better then them even

but anytime theres big st? ur kinda just fukt

[tender wedge]

and sub had a couple of good defensive talents unique to them

[glass mortar]

which is not a weakness any of those other guys share

[granite merlin]

But now you have the chance to shrug off dmg sometime

Does that work on rot?

[glass mortar]

at its maximum value on dots its ~3% dr

we lost 5% dr from the outlaw spec tree

[frail veldt]

YUGE

[granite merlin]

Jesus that’s worse than I thought

[glass mortar]

u also cant use it to calculate if u will live stuff in m+ ever

since its not guarenteed

its w/e

[granite merlin]

But I always have hope and they can’t take that away from me

[cinder relic]

Because people overindex for when feint doesn't work

But ignore that in 95% of cases, feint makes you immune to damage

I cannot overstate how unkillable rogue was on dimensius p1 and p2 compared to every dps in the game bar dk

[cinder relic]

This just isn't true

Dimensius p1 and p2 you couldn't

For most specs you had defensives you had to decide you were going to live. And others you just prayed you get healed through

[fathom bramble]

can anyone even name the last time a meaningful damage event went through feint AND cloak?

[cinder relic]

Some pulls you have to healthstone or health pot

[fathom bramble]

I'm thinking of like some dungeon stuff on very high keys, but like

it's super rare

[cinder relic]

Rogue was never, ever in a situation like this specifically because of how powerful feint was

Both it's low cd and high Dr number

[latent oak]

uldaman bleed from trogg boss ezpz

[frail veldt]

Yeha I guess thats probably the issue, rogue feels invulnerable some of the time but on rare occassions it feels very weak. Compare that to a class that just has a moderate DR but it always works that might actually be preferable

cuz if youre gona live it doesnt really matter if you live at 50% or 90% hp you still live

id rather always live at 50%

than only sometimes live but when I do live im at 90%

[cinder relic]

It 100% matters though lol

If you are taking less damage, that's more smart healing landing somewhere else

[fathom bramble]

honestly in keys that have this kind of thing going on it actually does hardly matter

[frail veldt]

sure yeah but what do you do for a rogue when they do encounter mechanics that their defensives dont work on

[fathom bramble]

usually the dangerous events are so far apart you just don't care

[frail veldt]

idk there are things in keys like ST bleeds where im just genuinely fucked as rogue

nothing I can do

and its cool to be at full HP during aoe damage stuff watching my team fall apart but depending on how your healers healing works it isnt that beneficial necessarily

[cinder relic]

The same thing other classes do on moments where rogue is thanos

You suffer and you use externals

[frail veldt]

well the implication here was that other classes are equally tanky to all sources of damage

since thats how most defensives work

[cinder relic]

Classes like hunter and priest get literally dragged to the finish line on some fights because they just cannot keep up with the output of some classes

[frail veldt]

yeah priest is fucked

priest just has not many buttons thats entirely its own issue haha

[latent oak]

just flash heal urself every 10s for the dr bro

[daring yoke]

Hey guys. In keys. Is it worth tracking snd? Other than make sure its up at first pull?

[granite merlin]

I will say there are times on assassination I would try to feint and not realize I was too energy starved lol

That feeeeeeelzbad

[frail veldt]

good thing outlaws never had to worry about that

[keen belfry]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1qu4cdx/comment/o381zfe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

thoughts?

who is this

[craggy barn]

they should make rogue raid buff the trickster no parry bug 😠

for our fellow melee enjoyers

i remember switching to sin a few times during prog and my melee would notice getting parried so often

in s2

[strange kelp]

You know the biggest travesty? Whispyr said he was using Sensei on the podcast recently.

[keen belfry]

dde WHAT

[vivid vessel]

thats why we hate whispyr around here

[craggy barn]

i still use senseis

but i forked it

[lime lake]

pretty sure that was before the wangbar renaissance

[craggy barn]

and have my own shit

[strange kelp]

It was

[lime lake]

whispyr is a wang enjoyer now

as are we all

[keen belfry]

fyck you

[strange kelp]

But still prime whispyr bothering material

[vivid vessel]

i dont use either

@keen belfry

[craggy barn]

i play other classes than rogue and enhance

[vivid vessel]

thoughts

[lime lake]

zacbar bout to be released with definitely all new code

[craggy barn]

i might switch over when i get around to adding other class support wang

[strange kelp]

You need to get whispyr to comment on the vid with a correction

Stop the misinformation

I expect Surv to be added to Wangbar for all my heavy pr work

[craggy barn]

the only classes that need custom shit are enh, dk, evoker

[frail veldt]

what about monk

chi is a thing

[slender elk]

Coming back to rogue...do i really still have to remember to reapply poisons every hour, or at the beginning of an M+? 🙁

[frail veldt]

yep

theres some new addon methods to remind you

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• EasyReminders - can show poison reminders outside of instances

[slender elk]

Thanks 😄

[tender wedge]

it actually works pretty well for WW out of the gate

[haughty moat]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[tender wedge]

just not for BM

[craggy barn]

when i was looking at how other addons do things, its mostly just combo points, essence, and runes that require some custom shit

most other secondary resources are pretty basic

[tender wedge]

works fine as long as you want your chi to look like combo points lol

been doing TW with it today, no issues

[frail veldt]

nice nice

I mean your combo points also dont look like combo points

those are squares

[lime lake]

ew slicing winds is still a thing

[frail veldt]

I miss plunderstorm haha

fun mode

[covert kestrel]

It's like more of a thing than it was

They're leaning into it

I never minded it that much when I played WW alt in s2

That DBZ set was the dankest

[craggy barn]

im overhauling everything wang u cant stop me

[keen belfry]

ky

[craggy barn]

wang u adding ur libs to gitignore was annoying

[hasty warren]

@keen belfry thx for your addon it's realy useful

[keen belfry]

theres a packager in actions

that adds them

[craggy barn]

no im talking about for forking it

[pastel pendant]

what is the highest apm spec RIGHT NOW

[cinder relic]

Probably one of the tanks

[craggy barn]

paladin i think has typically been the highest of the tanks

[covert kestrel]

For dps is it furry

[strange kelp]

Fury is pretty high apm

[untold wadi]

paladin is so fake high apm

pressing shield between globals is not the same

altho sniping interrupts is fun when u bind focus shield/kick/hoj

[vivid vessel]

?

@mods

[keen belfry]

es

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix

do you seee

what he typed

or

perma ban

this guy

now

[keen belfry]

unban me

NOW

[dusty flax]

is it me or does loaded dice not always improve RTB?

[vivid vessel]

it does

maybe you dont understand how rtb works tho

each roll is independent from the previous one

right

everytime you press the button you have a chance to get a 1, 2, 3 or 4

with loaded dice you cannot get a 1

and chances of 3 and 4 are thus increased

since you do + 1

[dusty flax]

ah i see

[wintry solar]

Bros learning

[dusty flax]

so if we have 2+, we save the loaded til it falls to guarantee another 2+?

[vivid vessel]

yeye

unless you have kir ready

then you could gamble a roll

for kir

maybe you get lucky and get a 3

[buoyant stratus]

Or a jackpot!!!

[vivid vessel]

holy shmokerino jackpot !

[buoyant stratus]

Dopamine button

Holy samole guacomole

15!!!(fifteen!!!)% critical strike!!

[upper surge]

can we ban you for this

[fathom bramble]

well there is no rule requiring you to press enter infrequently

[vivid vessel]

no

also its legit

a you skill issue

using this dicsord is so cringe

[upper surge]

there should be

[vivid vessel]

if you are a normal person its not cursed like that

[vivid vessel]

larias you want me to ping whisp?

[upper surge]

for what

[vivid vessel]

i tell him you dropped a link to your doc

what you gonna do

[upper surge]

lmao

[fathom bramble]

as long as your not deliberately spamming to flood the chat does it really matter

[upper surge]

prove that i didnt because it would show a delete history

[covert kestrel]

Compact discord is bannable

[upper surge]

IRC discord BIS

[upper surge]

thats what zac does

[fathom bramble]

I mean he's not typing specifically to spam the chat it's just how he types

[nova sinew]

@keen belfry 👀 help me my ocd

im pretty sure it was working before a recent update

ignore the sub icons

[fluid iron]

better fcking disable that shiv tracking

[nova sinew]

oh its real

it used to line up perfectly with my icons and now theyre different sizes 😭

[keen belfry]

whats the Q?

oh

different size cp

[nova sinew]

ye

[vivid vessel]

bro

its not even tryue

iuts all 57 pixel

[frail veldt]

the devs stole his apm he has to have an outlet somewhere

[fluid iron]

dont fix it for him let him suffer for tracking shiv

[keen belfry]

yeah those look same

[vivid vessel]

nvm the last one

is 60

every other is 57 tho

[keen belfry]

how do ifix that wtf

u guys r crazy

[nova sinew]

it was true when i checked

[vivid vessel]

idk maybe you failed your math

[nova sinew]

i promise im not gaslighting u

[vivid vessel]

skill issue prolly

but also

maybe not

if you have a bar

of x pixel width

and its not divisible

it will happen

anyway

[keen belfry]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

you cant have rectangles of 56.5 pixel so

[frail veldt]

but hwo would the last one be 60

[vivid vessel]

no clue

ask wang

he the noob

[frail veldt]

oh I bet I know

[fathom bramble]

total bar length doesn't divide into 7 and all extra pixels get put on the final section

[nova sinew]

i was looking at this one LUL

[frail veldt]

the last one can be up to 7 pixels

yeah

[fathom bramble]

7 + spacing an such

[frail veldt]

what loktark said

[keen belfry]

ty

cant fix

i leave it

ty

[frail veldt]

yeah I blame the user

[nova sinew]

wtf

[frail veldt]

for setting it to something not divisible

[fathom bramble]

just increase bar length until it jumps a bit

[frail veldt]

skill issue on their end

tbh

[fathom bramble]

and that should be divisible number

[keen belfry]

ty

stupid users

[upper surge]

fair fair

[ionic citrus]

ok .. so my raid leader just dropped the "we need u rogue" bomb. Wich of the 3 speccs are decent?

[wintry solar]

yo mama

[vivid vessel]

we cant know uintil release

[wintry solar]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[low glade]

!awangui

[covert kestrel]

!wangbussy

[low glade]

[cinder relic]

Outlaw or Sub or Sin

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/lil-yachty-drake-laptop-duh-gif-8033838636860661307

[ionic citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/jjk-jujutsu-kaisen-green-role-monkey-sukuna-gif-11527449611661656038

[cinder relic]

Right now, beta says Sub or Sin, but people have also been wrong in the past abotu what spec is best, Sin could be sleeper good.

[ionic citrus]

sin is the funniest.

[cinder relic]

Outlaw has the most hype around it, but Sub is very undervalued atm, and Sub also has burst

[ionic citrus]

i'll sleep now. thx for the info.

[fossil lintel]

I know more people excited for sub than outlaw outside the people in this discord

[ionic citrus]

sub has 2 buttons now

[fossil lintel]

yeah, i don't understand them either

[ionic citrus]

have u seen surv? 😛

[cinder relic]

One of the tier list dudes said OUtlaw thanos best melee on beta rn

[fossil lintel]

Outlaw thanos?

[cinder relic]

ya

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/itsover-wojack-gif-4367840179675491690

[fossil lintel]

is thanos because half our shit is gone?

[cinder relic]

No thanos because it does big damage

[languid arch]

Should I take Elusiveness or Cheat Death?

[fossil lintel]

it's big wang (bar) damage

[covert kestrel]

It's for the people

[cinder relic]

Cheat death 99% of the time

[fossil lintel]

is elusiveness dead with no float?

[cinder relic]

Elusive still does what its always done

[fossil lintel]

yeah but no cdr on evasion and feint

[cinder relic]

You take elusiveness on Sub/Sin at times

lol

[fossil lintel]

crazy

[cinder relic]

Elusiveness solves a problem

U take it if you need to solve a problem

[vivid vessel]

i mean if you do keys

you cant play cheat lol

[fossil lintel]

who even play those though?

[vivid vessel]

its not possible

im talking all 3 specs

[fossil lintel]

(i meant sub and ass)

yeah, it's used in high m+, but wasn't aware the other 2 also grabbed it

[untold wadi]

did any spec ever take cheat outside of raid in the last 2 expacs

[vivid vessel]

yes because as much as people like to say that feint is op

if you dont have elus you are legit the most paper spec in the game

[fossil lintel]

I'm gonna miss stacking vers

[vivid vessel]

and well even with elus sin was the most paper spec in the game all of tww so

now outlaw is the same

[strange kelp]

Sin literally fell over to a sneeze last season if you didnt pre feint

[vivid vessel]

i know

now outlaw is the same

[fossil lintel]

do we like stat trinkets now?

[vivid vessel]

but i heard outlaw didnt lose any def so

[vivid vessel]

i mean

prolly a bit more

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-eating-watermelon-watermelon-cat-eating-cat-kitty-gif-2333377029565336946

I hope this cat swallows u zac

Thoughts?

[fossil lintel]

bro, get a room

[proven ocean]

What room

[fathom bramble]

we lost a lot of free damage amps on damage trinkets so stat trinket should increase in relative value

as long as they provide a good stat

the loss in damage amps for trinkets is more impactful for relative trinket value than the change in value of secondary stats themselves

[proven ocean]

They nerfed trinkets?

Theres no way

Like trinkets are barely a few %

[vivid vessel]

they nerfed you zeross

[fathom bramble]

we lost damage amps for trinkets

[proven ocean]

??

wtf zac

[fathom bramble]

from losing BTE, a little bit of alacrity, take' em, and thiefs versatility

[proven ocean]

Ah

Yea true

[vivid vessel]

i mean stacking vers in general also

better than stacking haste kekw

for trinkets i mena

[proven ocean]

Yea trinkets are gonna suck balls for us

[fathom bramble]

so rppm damage trinkets are losing like 25%+ of their value compared to last expac

[proven ocean]

I think we’ll like vers trinkets from now on?

Idk

[vivid vessel]

well the less vers you have the more value it is

so sure

[fathom bramble]

well for like rppm stuff stacking crit/vers/haste are all very similar

since virtually all rppm damage stuff scales with haste and can crit

[vivid vessel]

sounds fake

[solemn vessel]

hey he have 3

[craggy barn]

awang put most of his code in 1 file, im losing my mind

[vivid vessel]

i know rioght

i asked him to send me part of the code that did the width so i could help him fix

he sent me the whole repo

i almost vomited

legit 2k line of code

[craggy barn]

im soft refactoring it rn but im entirely tempted to just giga refactor this shit

[vivid vessel]

in one single file

[proven ocean]

Time to get to work zac

[vivid vessel]

buddy im going to read all that

for sure for sure

[proven ocean]

He probably copied some parts on other addons

Or chatgbt copied it

[vivid vessel]

ross you fat cow

[craggy barn]

im not even pissed about the number of lines, its just not well organized

[proven ocean]

Zac u fat pig

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix ban him ?

[proven ocean]

@proven ocean ban him?

Oh wrong person

[craggy barn]

ive copied addon code out of curiosity and id never just stuff shit into one file

[proven ocean]

Im surprised addon developers aren’t doing new addons

For midnight

Are they just pissed off with midnight restrictions

[craggy barn]

new addons are popping up every day i see on the reddit

[proven ocean]

I never opened wow reddit

[shell fossil]

probs some combo of waiting for the dust to settle

[proven ocean]

Bunch of noobs in there

[shell fossil]

and not knowing how to make addons go brr

[proven ocean]

No one has above 1 iq

[craggy barn]

im subd to it, but i dont really dive into it at all

i love seeing some random r/wow take on my feed

[frail veldt]

even in m+?

[fathom bramble]

most people don't do keys at the level where elusiveness is warranted

[frail veldt]

tru

[fathom bramble]

strategic and good use of elusiveness probably helps in like easy low keys

[frail veldt]

prob the right choice for the new players who just want to steamroll low keys too

[fathom bramble]

but compared to just taking cheat to absorb mistakes it's prob not worth for 99% of players

[cinder relic]

^^

[tribal cosmos]

Damn

Nobody is hyped for this expac

Funny

[vivid vessel]

i know one guy who is

[fathom bramble]

well lets not say nobody

it's worse than tww, and the addon changes sucked

but I'm hyped for any expac as long as the game is sitll fun

[proven ocean]

Its worse than any expansion

Not just tww

Tww was great

[tribal cosmos]

Well the hype just isnt there

Who is looking at upcoming things and pogging out at all

[proven ocean]

Restrictions instead of finding solutions is dumb

[tribal cosmos]

Even the worst expacs

[vivid vessel]

i know one guy

[tribal cosmos]

Everyone was like

Holy fuck i hope they dont fuck it up

This looks cool

[proven ocean]

“We wanna ban hekili so WAs are gone”

[tribal cosmos]

Were they always cool ? No but the hype was insane

[proven ocean]

Ye rwf players wont be able to play without hekili

Unlucky

Huge Game advantage it was

[quick ridge]

I’m looking forward to Prey, a bit

[tribal cosmos]

How are the ui changes

[cinder relic]

Hopefully prey is lit yeh

[tribal cosmos]

Is information streamline working

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/microwave-gif-27446806

[vivid vessel]

destroyed the game

[cinder relic]

the new raid schedule seems sick

[proven ocean]

UI changes

Burnt microwave

[vivid vessel]

you just have to install 25 addons

instead of having cool weak aura everyone can customize

[tribal cosmos]

Ui as i saw is literally 1-4% of original

[vivid vessel]

you have an addon list you cant even read

and its all broken and shit

[tribal cosmos]

Kinda dog shit

Why they broke wa

Or dbm

Or anything

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble

btw

you know whats funny about this whole addon thing

[tribal cosmos]

Blizzard wanted to replace addons with in game replacements

[vivid vessel]

one of the thing the devs didnt like and was like mentionned a lot

[tribal cosmos]

Now people have 25x addons to fill holes that they create

[vivid vessel]

is dbm and shit telling players what to do

like run

etc

but dbm can still do that nothing changed

so

[tribal cosmos]

Imagine

They pruned BM hunter

Legit 3 buttons

[fathom bramble]

yeah I mean all the addon stuff is super half baked and rushed

[tribal cosmos]

Remember when we thought the microsoft takeover would be great ?

This is microsoft now

Shouldve been taken by tencent thh

[cinder relic]

idt the microsoft merger has anything to do with this

[tribal cosmos]

Sucks it was taken by the worst gaming company in the sphere

[shell fossil]

egh whirlwind of drama tho

[tribal cosmos]

Killing addons announced shortly after the merge

And Xbox also announced during the same timeframe they wanted to xboxify every game

[cinder relic]

I don't think a change as big to the game as "nerfing addons" was made on the whim of a merger

[tribal cosmos]

You dont understand how massive companies work then

[cinder relic]

lol

Yeah Ig not

[shell fossil]

i wouldn't have disabled wa stuff on retail

[cinder relic]

idt u understand how much of wow is pipelining

[shell fossil]

and made the beta be the final milestone for turning everything off

[tribal cosmos]

Microsoft shoves whatever they can onto their xbox now

They lost console war

So now theyre trying to diversify

[shell fossil]

pretty much every wowtuber has gone on video to say this prepatch wasn't a positive experience

and i kinda agree df s4 and all that

[tribal cosmos]

Too bad soon AI will make next raid

[cinder relic]

Interesting fanfiction

[quick ridge]

It seems like they’ve been in a contentious relationship with addons since… maybe Archimonde, at least? And then back and forth on how complex they can design raids because of them wanting to account for external addons

Maybe earlier, I’m not sure

[tribal cosmos]

Trying to introduce people to raiding is nearly impossible

Aotc is seen as penultimate achievement to alot of players

[vivid vessel]

thats irrelevant, they could have killed raid addons way more easely than what they did, without impacting UI addons

they chose to destroy everything

cause they dont want "rotation solver"

who gives a shit about that

suddenly hekillih is bad

only noobs used it anyway so who cares

[quick ridge]

What would have been a less impactful manner? (I am asking, this is not meant to be a rude question)

[vivid vessel]

well you restrict ennemy things only

[tribal cosmos]

Well they wanted to make rotations easier too

[vivid vessel]

instead of everything

[tribal cosmos]

Cause xbox

[vivid vessel]

rn they also restrict your own things cause they dont want rotation solver

they also restrict some stuffs that are really dumb for similar reason

[quick ridge]

Ah, I don’t really understand much of the under the hood stuff, but just restrict certain addons ability to access game information instead of almost all of them?

[vivid vessel]

like your health etc is restricted cause they dont want an addon to tell you to use a health pot or smth

[tribal cosmos]

Rotation solver would be useless now anyways everything is 2-3 buttons with simple instructions

[vivid vessel]

like who gives a shit about that

have you ever heard of an addon that tells you when to health pot

[vivid vessel]

this game works with events

[tribal cosmos]

No the raid lead yells at us too

[vivid vessel]

you can restrict ennemy events

instead of everything

[solemn vessel]

so is the move OL and leave Sub in TWW?

[tribal cosmos]

Why would you leave sub

[vivid vessel]

you just had to restrict ennemy evnts and addons communication so people cant do addons that solve mechanic by assigning players etrc

and it was all good

nothing changed

people would be happy

you still keep your weak aura and shit

[tribal cosmos]

Yup they would nuke DBM

[vivid vessel]

but raid packages cant exist anymore

[tribal cosmos]

But the game wouldnt change

[vivid vessel]

everyone would be fine about it

[wintry solar]

smh

[vivid vessel]

dbm hasnt changed tho

[quick ridge]

I do miss my weakauras

[tribal cosmos]

Dbm hasnt changed but nuked everything rlse

[quick ridge]

This is interesting, thank you for explaining!

[tribal cosmos]

I miss old blizzard

Smelly old men making fantastical shit

[shell fossil]

they didn't have to break weak auras

[vivid vessel]

and btw, the devs know that right, it was intentional to restrict way more, cause they didnt want addons to be able to help you with your rotation etc

[tribal cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/piratesoftware-pirate-software-i-used-to-work-at-i-used-to-work-at-blizzard-gif-18195862432693732087

When this guy nepo babied into vlizzard

[shell fossil]

just did it as a side effect of kneecapping raid behaviors like zac said

[vivid vessel]

which again no one cares about

suddently hekkilih is an issue

[tribal cosmos]

We are on worst time line

[quick ridge]

Yea that’s odd considering they added their own rotation helper

[tribal cosmos]

Pirate got into blizzard and we got cooked

[shell fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/sean-connery-moviesh-da-moviesh-movies-love-to-watch-da-moviesh-gif-18330388

[vivid vessel]

yes cause their thinking is that they control it , and its intentionally lower damage output than the optimal rotation

but again like

who gives a fuck

[tribal cosmos]

Lets be honest guys they dumbed down the classes cause they cant even parse their own classes

[vivid vessel]

hekilih been able to do perfect rotation forever and the best players of each specs still dont use it

[tribal cosmos]

Shit remember DR bm being “ forgotten “

[cinder relic]

I think they dumbed down classes because across the board, a lot of classes in TWW had a lot of dumb shit to track and pay attention to

[quick ridge]

It’s a lot of changes to add at once. Removing addons and removing so many elements of so many classes

[cinder relic]

Multiple classes had weakauras tell you when to press buttons because of layered conditionals that exist

[tribal cosmos]

They cant even simulate their own classes

[shell fossil]

i mean how much of the current class/spec design is shadowlands era stuff

[tribal cosmos]

I wholly believe they balance whenever wowhead guide writers update sims

[shell fossil]

that got polished up and modernized etc

[tribal cosmos]

No fking way they sim their own changes

Their balance design lead probably has 0 inhouse information to go off of

[quick ridge]

Unrelated but I love your profile picture. That cinematic of Xal was absolutely terrifying

[cinder relic]

tyty

its a good one

Fun character

Excited to see what happens with her

[tribal cosmos]

She will be defeated

Gg

[quick ridge]

Me too! She’s quite compelling. Always enjoy the elegant evil types

[tribal cosmos]

I hope we take her feet as trophies

https://tenor.com/view/xalatath-xal'atath-feet-wow-world-of-warcraft-gif-17385860347846332910

Epitome of blizzard gooning

Breast milk theft devs

[cinder relic]

I think the breast milk thieves are the "Old blizzard" that you were idolizing earlier

Just saying

[tribal cosmos]

Naw there were no breast milk fridges in old blizz

Only sweaty dudes trying to make a compelling story

Now its

https://tenor.com/view/barney-food-pistachios-trick-eating-gif-27567268

[cinder relic]

Uh

[tribal cosmos]

Watch the feet

[quick ridge]

I wonder if we will see Yrel this expansion

After the maghar recruitment line I’m very interested to see what happened

[keen belfry]

do we get a build tomorrow

that saves us

[shell fossil]

defeat xalatath

she drops shoes

https://tenor.com/view/chicken-gif-8151061099800153363

[craggy barn]

i have dk runes working with wangbar now

[wintry solar]

pristine condition

I wonder where she finds the time to paint her nails

[craggy barn]

wang, this PR is gonna be MASSIVE

[ocean lodge]

hopefully not.

the last thing this awful story needs is lightforged garrosh

Especially since I can totally see that being a fanservicey raid boss at some point

[tender wedge]

Now I just need a decent CDM that isn’t also resources and cast bar etc etc

[keen belfry]

is it...

[craggy barn]

right now no

i did a PR just for some generalization stuff i did and the DK update

[keen belfry]

open source wangbar

[craggy barn]

but im doing a lot more later

im VERY tempted to refactor a lot of your shit wang

[keen belfry]

send a pr

[craggy barn]

its up

[keen belfry]

id for sure gander

[fossil lintel]

What is the GitHub for wangbar?

[craggy barn]

AwangWOW/Wangbar

[vivid vessel]

you dont want it bro

[fossil lintel]

Why not

I want to help the Wang grow

[tender wedge]

Grow the wang for the people

[fossil lintel]

Zac wants to keep the Wang secret sauce all for himself

[shell fossil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIYdriEWiK4

wang spotted

as someone who didn't use weakauras except for raid mechanics, handling reroll logic or refunds wasn't thhhaat bad

not to generalize but i seriously doubt there were any classes in the game that explicitly needed them to be played at a high level if you understood how to apply the rotation

[fossil lintel]

Coding weakauras to do stuff was fun though

[keen belfry]

just did my first beta key

[shell fossil]

that cat sounds hud/ui package for druid was lmao ye

[keen belfry]

this spec is so ass......... so boring

[violet ice]

are people still using plater or platynator ?

[vivid vessel]

why would you change addon

[keen belfry]

zac beta outlaw

so boring

[vivid vessel]

plater is still better if ytou want customisation

[keen belfry]

did a key

[vivid vessel]

i know wang

there is a reason i dont play beta

[keen belfry]

its genuinely like

boring

🙁

[vivid vessel]

i know

play it without ace now wang

cause thats what we are gonna be doing

[violet ice]

the cev plater isnt working anymore im trying to find 1 i can use that keeps track of my dots n stuff

[vivid vessel]

xd

[keen belfry]

what r taking for ace?

[violet ice]

there all so small and not working

[vivid vessel]

ye good luck with taht bro

[fossil lintel]

We're not doing 1 ace?

[vivid vessel]

no

[keen belfry]

taking kir for ace?

[vivid vessel]

they buffed the adr talent

so we will take that

[keen belfry]

this is what i was doing

[fossil lintel]

That is what is on the faq

[vivid vessel]

ye its if you are trickster

i think trickster was better tho

[fossil lintel]

Great tree by the way, the optimal play is to not get a single capstone

[vivid vessel]

but we will see

well the tree is terrible

[fossil lintel]

Please god no, ks sucks let it die

[keen belfry]

do u get scaled in bet akeys

[frank finch]

trickster better then fb?

ur smoking

[vivid vessel]

Imma make some ratatouille

[craggy barn]

outlaw best mele spec tho so we op!

[tender wedge]

That’s what the people are saying!

[fossil lintel]

If it's on YouTube then it must be true

[vivid vessel]

Ye beta tuning and opinions so relevant I care a lot

25% bf

[tender wedge]

Clickbaiters I mean content creators can’t all be wrong can they?

[cinder relic]

Outlaw and sub rn r v good

idt thats clickbait

[molten oasis]

Wow not bottom talents wild

[south scaffold]

Why my sinister strike is gray? i need it to "track", because my old brain needs this thing on "1". so i dont get confused with "2" for pistol shot, lol!

[vivid vessel]

because there is nothing to track and the cdm only track buffs and cd

pistol shoit is tracked cause its opp procs

ss can be tracked if you are talented into audacity

cause then it will show ambush procs there

but ye

you are not supposed to be tracking stuffs that arent cds

or buffs

[south scaffold]

sadlife

[lime lake]

madlife

[oblique trench]

atleast we got something to track in comparison with sub

[keen belfry]

that beta key made me sad

[sonic pawn]

@keen belfry love your wangbar but is there anyway of making the CP update feel smoother ? Sensei feels smoother when cp update especially after using a free pistol shot

[deep python]

Spammed keys on live today. Will I notice any changes in beta/midnight with gameplay. I do have a lot of haste now.

[keen belfry]

i somewhat agree with this, i can look into it. sensei fills up the combo points

[sonic pawn]

yep it just feels quite jittery compared to sensei. Just my honest feedback 🙂

[tender wedge]

Well it’s gonna be hard to hit 25-30% haste as a fresh 90 so energy might feel a bit tough

[haughty wigeon]

i find it to be a design failure

when a spec avoids its capstones

[tender wedge]

Yeah that’s pretty messed up

[pastel pendant]

That’s why I’m not going to bother leveling outlaw

Save myself the trouble of falling asleep while playing so

Wow

[vague cape]

Give it til next tier- next tier set “your Between the eyes loads a underhanded upper handed sinister strike, once you have 5 you launch all of them, guaranteeing a multi hit and consuming the stacks” better get SS tracked then

And yes, the ridiculous name is intentional

[patent mirage]

we got another round of outlaw sux

[balmy topaz]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[tender wedge]

like clockwork about this time of night

[untold wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/pancake-cat-eating-nom-gif-22539704

yummy

[sonic pawn]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• EasyReminders - can show poison reminders outside of instances

[pure folio]

just make an action bar with only sinister strike on it and hide the rest

if u really need to

and move it where u would normally track it

[unkempt dew]

With 30% haste outlaw feels a lot better

[fierce yarrow]

which addon you use for partyframes?

[radiant root]

waiting for Cell

[unreal ermine]

just use 1button rotation, then youll hit slow enough that ull never run out of energy

[cobalt token]

Wait I thought killing spree was good

Or am I tweaking

[unreal ermine]

its not good i think

[rotund zodiac]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• EasyReminders - can show poison reminders outside of instances

[pastel sierra]

Its required on trickster

Not good

If it wasnt baked into hero talent as an activator you wouldnt take it

Does no dmg

3s channel

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[proven ocean]

hi

H eye

[thorn parrot]

Yaaaargh

[dark steeple]

[untold wadi]

[jolly geyser]

[zinc briar]

Yooo saw a video that says that outlaw got buffed

And its a monster in st dmg

Real??

[gaunt phoenix]

On the beta our st seems good

beta numbers are still w.e

[loud garden]

its among the higher st specs on beta yes

[mighty pivot]

I saw in a dream that outlaw got gigachanges with this build. So it must be a premonition

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-nose-poke-capy-coconut-gif-1974646734566907144

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-nose-poke-capy-coconut-gif-1974646734566907144

[proven ocean]

real footage of a fighter jet being fueled by another plane

[white marten]

Nice cat Ross

[proven ocean]

tea why

wait

how are u calling me ross

u only joined 2 days ago

only zac calls me ross

[proven ocean]

@gaunt phoenix anyone got banned recently?

[gaunt phoenix]

he has 5000 messages, just returned

from years past

[proven ocean]

[white marten]

Only 5000?! Wow. Rookie numbers in this racket

[buoyant stratus]

My headcanon is now that your name is pronounced Zee-Ross

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[proven ocean]

u can pronounce my name in whatever way makes u hard

happy*

[gaunt phoenix]

zero has 200,000 messages

[proven ocean]

wait why did i say hard

my hacked acc prob had same amount ish

[gaunt phoenix]

freudian slip

[proven ocean]

if not more idk i was a master yapper back then

18 yr old zeross

[white marten]

You were definitely more of a yapper during your assa days

[proven ocean]

joined in legion and got hacked in like

SL?

i think

[white marten]

Oof

[proven ocean]

or 2023 idk

yea 2023

[gaunt phoenix]

you clicked on whispyrnudes.zip

[white marten]

I mean, id rather be hacked during SL than in any other expansion. If i had to pick

[proven ocean]

yuh

whispyrnudes.zip

[lucid stirrup]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1292477218462634115/vlc_2024-10-06_08-22-07.gif

[buoyant stratus]

[keen belfry]

Man looking at larias spreedsheet thing these crest changes are so bad

[gaunt phoenix]

lapras

[keen belfry]

It’s only “good” with trickster cause the tree needs it to function, it does terrible dmg

[gaunt phoenix]

ks should be full aoe and something in trickster tree buffs its dmg

[keen belfry]

I hear that’s it in the changes this week for. Our massive beta build

[gaunt phoenix]

now trickster has a more defined aoe role

[keen belfry]

What if they nerfed out passive cleave (we don’t have non passive cleave) so they will giga buff KS and BR

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean they've already done that 3 times

BR buffed ahead of cleave

[lethal oak]

Inb4 KS revert

[low glade]

bring back old KS!

[lucid stirrup]

when BF revert

[low glade]

BF should be a 2 min 2 target cooldown

that should be outlaw niche

2 target cleave

[mighty pivot]

20% energy regen reduction

[lucid stirrup]

classic was peak indeed

this thing was reworked so much

they still don't know where they want it lol

[gaunt phoenix]

i liked bf charges in bfa

though it was kinda shit in true sustain cleave

[low glade]

WoD BF was based

[gaunt phoenix]

but i liked having to think about expending charges correctly

[low glade]

just toggle that shit on

[lucid stirrup]

I really liked BFA Outlaw as whole actually

even made my second Rogue alt

[gaunt phoenix]

i think bf being really strong but not permanent is not a terrible way to 'balance' it

[lucid stirrup]

that was the time of the famed BtE stun era

[gaunt phoenix]

ye and wits

[keen belfry]

I mean in the sense that we become an active cleave spec

And blade furry becomes like

Whirlwind!

It does aoe but isn’t our main source of it

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw's whole thing being passive cleave is fine

we are different in some way

[stuck sparrow]

bfa was an odd time

seeing a gorillion bad fotm outlaws

[lucid stirrup]

was nice to feel needed

pick lock in tol dogor

many shroud skips

[keen belfry]

I just want to feel something

[stuck sparrow]

mfd vs ds argument my beloved

spoiler mfd was better

[gaunt phoenix]

blood vs iris

[stuck sparrow]

ehh how many people played iris

[gaunt phoenix]

most competitive keys were blood

[stuck sparrow]

mfd was outright better but most people couldnt snipe resets proper

[lucid stirrup]

mfd was strong with the resets

but yeah people just hated the playstyle

and I dont blame them

[stuck sparrow]

lol

was one of the only engaging things imo

[ashen void]

MFD was so fun

[stuck sparrow]

mfd+necrolord

[vapid sundial]

Who is people

[stuck sparrow]

wtf is a builder

[twilit scarab]

So i gotta ask, im seeing that the Ravenhold Mint supposedly got fixed so why is everyone still saying to go trickster even for st?

[vapid sundial]

Who are these people who hated mfd

[ashen void]

yes dude

[lucid stirrup]

well it definitely wasnt unanimously loved lol

[vapid sundial]

Pretty damn close id day

[wintry solar]

People who don't matter obv

Everyone mourned the loss

[vapid sundial]

SBS MFD outlaw was close to if not the best outlaw

[stuck sparrow]

class discords might give you a more skewed pov

[balmy topaz]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[ashen void]

mouseover macros fun :)

[stuck sparrow]

i think in the general fotm playerbase ds was more favored

since it required way less brain

[gaunt phoenix]

in prepatch, trickster is still ahead because:

1. mint is not as good as i thought it was, i thought it was +4% per heads stack, i misinterpreted the spell data information
2. fatebound at level 80 cant get Deal Fate so it is missing a key part of its build
3. trickster likes having easy access to >30% haste with level 80 scaling

[vapid sundial]

Well blizzard obviously doesn't care what outlaw players think in general

So YKnow

[balmy topaz]

@gaunt phoenix Loaded dice doesn't stay on after the key

[gaunt phoenix]

yes it does

[stuck sparrow]

talking bfa, not sure if ds had a finisher amp in bfa

[gaunt phoenix]

unless they fixed it with the last day

[vapid sundial]

Ds I think was just better

Vigor was for bad players basically

[ashen void]

SL was an awful expansion but imo peak outlaw

[vapid sundial]

Iirc

[stuck sparrow]

early SL had the infamous twitch streamer brainrot of deathly shadows

[balmy topaz]

On beta if I RTB before the key I lose it with about 5 seconds left in the dome

SOrry AR

Not RTB

[ashen void]

haha i forgot about deathly shadows

[vapid sundial]

The foreverguy having a few people attack him in discord

[ashen void]

and the arguments from... was it shanti?

[vapid sundial]

Shanti and jpc

No?

[stuck sparrow]

i thought jpc started it

[ashen void]

oh ya jpc

[stuck sparrow]

jpc came a long way

[vapid sundial]

Jpc started it and Shanti giga simped

[ashen void]

james i miss him

[stuck sparrow]

from being beat by mages on overall in sl beta

to liquid

growth arc

[twilit scarab]

Ah thank you! Ive been along time lover of outlaw but i couldnt quite get it to perform until the new changes so im trying to make sure im best ready for my raid group so i wanted to make sure! I like both trickster and fatebound, i just like the theme of fatebound a bit more so i wanted to see if it was outdated guides or just not as good yet.

Now with that said does this mean come 90 we likely will be going back to fatebound or is trickster sill better?

[fossil lintel]

I remember in SL bf hitting from 3 rooms away

[vapid sundial]

Ravenholdt lore.

[ashen void]

... and then kyrian shadowdust my beloved

[stuck sparrow]

pretty sure most the tcs said

celerity was better

[fossil lintel]

Oh yeah dust outlaw was peak

[vapid sundial]

I preferred sbs still over shadow

[gaunt phoenix]

at level 90 fatebound should be ahead by 3-5%

[lucid stirrup]

ewww dust

flair representative right here

[vapid sundial]

Skill issue detected

[ashen void]

it was crazy to have so much cdr on cloak with dust

[vapid sundial]

The pvp clips were funny

Xdd

[fossil lintel]

You disliked dust in sub, dust in outlaw was good

[twilit scarab]

Thanks!

[patent mirage]

rc dust was the pog

[stuck sparrow]

the real floodgate was the prepatch

[patent mirage]

everything else pales before rc dust

[stuck sparrow]

when you had both RC

and venthyr

[vapid sundial]

Nein

[stuck sparrow]

with dust

[ashen void]

based

[vapid sundial]

Sbs, gsw outlaw

[stuck sparrow]

fth is basically better blunderbuss

felt like multiple legos at once

[balmy topaz]

@gaunt phoenix

[wintry solar]

Flag,gsw,db still supreme

[balmy topaz]

They hate us

[ashen void]

man outlaw was like the least played rogue spec s3 SL and it probably had the coolest variety of builds then

[wintry solar]

Yeah it's why it's my favorite expac

[patent mirage]

it was because of the sylvanas dagger

it made sub so good

[vapid sundial]

Rogue is also fotm favored

Heavily

[hasty warren]

Why do I've 31% haste now when during S3 I had 19% with the same gear ?

[gaunt phoenix]

must have been changed yesterday

[vapid sundial]

Oh yeah speaking of

[gaunt phoenix]

stat squish for the eventual level 90

[vapid sundial]

Do yourself a favor and avoid this discord for the first week or two of midnight

[wintry solar]

[ashen void]

[patent mirage]

or

not

[ashen void]

maxing

[wintry solar]

There's gonna be a LOT of people bitching

[hasty warren]

ok I though it would keep the same %

[vapid sundial]

Not even that.

[balmy topaz]

At least we can still use it for CP's

[vapid sundial]

I'm talking about the fotm

It's awful

[wintry solar]

Oh them too

[ashen void]

oh is outlaw ranked high on petko tier list or something

[fossil lintel]

Doesn't the bubble clear cp away?

[wintry solar]

They'll see the 10% nerf to some random ability that ends up being a nothing burger and they'll leave

[ashen void]

ya nerf to a random ability like blade flurry cleave

[patent mirage]

remember the fth nerfs and how many people dropped off

[vapid sundial]

Oh no I have to press one more gcd

[gaunt phoenix]

you can slice and dice before bubble ends

[fossil lintel]

In S1 df?

[vapid sundial]

Yes

[gaunt phoenix]

or after the bubble it gets cleared to 2cps, which is still fine to snd

[fossil lintel]

I mean, outlaw before that felt like a well oiled machine of proc whackamole

[vapid sundial]

I mean

The main thing was heroic week nerfing

Outlaw never avoids it

I swear

[fossil lintel]

Oh yeah, did they fix the snd bug?

[gaunt phoenix]

No but we dont talk about that

[fossil lintel]

God dammit blizzard

Well we don't run supercharger anymore

[hasty warren]

what can I change here ?
I can purchase 2 item with chips

[gaunt phoenix]

unless you kill mythic soul hunters, there is not a whole lot to buy

[hasty warren]

sry for bagette game langage

[hasty warren]

isn't peacemaker better here ?

I mean in MM

[gaunt phoenix]

it could be marginally ahead of sigil

[hasty warren]

compared to HM signet

[mighty pivot]

you can change your transmog

[balmy topaz]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stuck sparrow]

you know

expansion launches remind me of the gym on new year's

[vapid sundial]

[upper hawk]

give us your tight 5 on expansion launches

c'mon i need a punch line

[ashen void]

I got your tight 5 right here bozo

👊

https://tenor.com/view/poki-jake-pov-gif-20535961

[hasty warren]

u're just jealus

[pastel sierra]

Mythic soulhunter trinket, mythic soulhunter boots

[obsidian crag]

what are best tinkers for outlaw in midnight beta?

[keen belfry]

Huge beta build today or?

[ionic citrus]

Probably the stupidest question of the week but where do I find the new RtB buffs? Can't find it on WoWhead nor discord. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[upper hawk]

They are 1 2 3 and 4

[glass mortar]

like what they do?

1 is SS proc chance, 2 is fake broadside (its SS only, not PS), 3 is TB (additional cdr), 4 is 10% crit

[gaunt phoenix]

that's the answer

[copper radish]

23 more days and we gonna be ripping some apex talents on live leveling up 🔥

[upper hawk]

and then just 21 more days until m+