outlaw

[frail veldt]

It's like they hear what they're thinking not what's said

I'd be surprised if he's some Ken M level of God tier wow troll

[mighty pivot]

@wintry solar thoughts on mafic being from louisiana?

[wintry solar]

nah

I can tell

[mighty pivot]

you can tell from the pixels?

[wintry solar]

if I send you a picture of a donkey taking a shit, would you be able to tell what it is by the pixels or something else?

[mighty pivot]

the pixels

they need to fix that mount dc bug asap

[wintry solar]

I dont have that

or experienced it

[mighty pivot]

if slam into something while being gigafast you get disconnected

[wintry solar]

lemme try

[mighty pivot]

I dunno if it's just certain angles that cause it

[rotund depot]

[mighty pivot]

you don't count. he's your bestie

I bet you have sleepovers

[rotund depot]

jokes on him I'm a pally in disguise

[quaint mauve]

i love you my outlaw brothers

[frail veldt]

That's been there since DF hahaha

[daring yoke]

guys, do you have any addons or hacky ways of making combo points obvious if its 5 or 6+?

[tender wedge]

let me introduce you to wangbar

[daring yoke]

yooo wtf

[lime lake]

[tender wedge]

it's for the people

[daring yoke]

i thought its wankbar at first

[tender wedge]

by the people

[daring yoke]

thank you people

[craggy barn]

its wankbar

dont touch wang's bar

!

(the addon name is wangbar, but wankbar is funnier, just to clarify)

[wintry solar]

im wanging it, im wanging it, im wanging it

[mighty pivot]

nah something changed for the worse since 12.0. It happens extremely often

[daring yoke]

is there a way to enable both threshold and color combo by points

[tender wedge]

You’ll need to ask the dev on that one.

[thick vigil]

Thank you for your service awang 🫡

[tender wedge]

i tested just because and the per-point colour setting overrides the threshhold

if you tick both boxes

so threshhold won't work in that case

[daring yoke]

yeah it seems so. would be nice if its possible to have an additional threshold. but its better than sensei for rogues

5 cps all green, 6+ all blue or something

[untold wadi]

it just goes on for days

[tender wedge]

i think he's got plans to make different threshholds per loadout

so you can eventually have change based on 5+ for FB assa, 6+ for outlaw etc

[haughty wigeon]

Mafic is a casual pvper

Only does world content

Nothing else

Very cooked person

[mighty pivot]

holy pala changes are being reverted. Imagine iterating based on feedback

[untold wadi]

so all u gotta do it ping @eveyrone and complain? someone give zac(h) @eveyrone perms!

[vivid vessel]

must be nice having devs

[languid arch]

Played Outlaw for the past three hours...

It's fun as fuck

https://tenor.com/view/i-love-the-gamble-larry-mcreynolds-nascar-pennzoil-high-risk-gif-18821781

[covert kestrel]

Remember when they iterated on new ks

Loved the work they did

[mighty pivot]

[wintry solar]

I want that emoji

[covert kestrel]

Yeah that's rude to hide that one

[upper surge]

pin this

[torn lichen]

He’ll get run out of the server soon enough.

[upper surge]

lmao

[cinder relic]

Welcome to the champions club

[pastel pendant]

🤡 🤡 🤡

[gaunt phoenix]

fuck off, let ppl have fun

[vivid vessel]

you fuck off solo !

[past falcon]

not this again

[fossil lintel]

So uh, we nominating Zac for wow ambassador?

[frail veldt]

Which one lol

[vivid vessel]

wtf is a wow ambassador

[frail veldt]

Your new job

Do you think outlaws squishiness is gonna ruin any viability it might have had in m+

[vapid sundial]

New KS is cool besides the fact that it doesn't focus target

[vivid vessel]

i mean outlaw survived off of that this whole expac

[vapid sundial]

Unless they finally fixed that

[vivid vessel]

imagine if it didnt have tankyness

:)

[vapid sundial]

Yes

Why take outlaw when you can take a class that does much more dmg and is tankier

[eternal turtle]

how much did you enjoy S3 outlaw from 0 to 10 and how much do you enjoy the new midnight version from 0 to 10? 🙂

[vapid sundial]

I think the only exception was enhance shaman cuz it did so much dam

[vapid sundial]

Please don't get him started

Oh no

[vivid vessel]

s3 is fun it just does 0 damage

apparently midnight does damage rn but its the worse outlaw iteration we ever had in term of fun

0 depth

nothing to do

[vapid sundial]

Zac!

ILY.
Keep putting up the good fight.

[eternal turtle]

sounds perfect for me thx! 😛

[frail veldt]

some people like having less to do, it means they can mash their buttons with less effort and punishment for making mistakes

[vivid vessel]

thyey should play bm then

[frail veldt]

they probably were before

but now they can play outlaw and bm

[vapid sundial]

Well

Realistically I feel like this pushed a lot of outlaws old playerbase away

[frail veldt]

yeah ofc, they made no effort to make both parties happy

[eternal turtle]

BFA simple outlaw was really enjoyable for me, the fun came from cleaving the shit out of trash mobs in keys, complexity just gets in the way of that 😛

[frail veldt]

yeah bfa was fun cuz it was well tuned

people really like bm when its well tuned too

big meter big fun

[vivid vessel]

bfa is still 10 times more involved than this outlaw so

[frail veldt]

If outlaw stays well tuned people will say they loved this version of outlaw and if outlaw is bottom of the meters a lot of people will say this version sucks ass

most players are unable to separate meters from the quality of the rotation

[vapid sundial]

Not me

I loved 9.2 outlaw

But it was shite dmg

[frail veldt]

I said most haha

I loved outlaws rotation in S3 tww even though it was arguably the weakest spec in the game

[vivid vessel]

i still think s3 tww got a lot of bullshit

that

[eternal turtle]

yep, but what good is an interesting rotation when you manage to pull it off and you're proud of yourself then you see you're dead last on the meters. I'm not gonna be having fun for long

[vivid vessel]

is unfun

(all of trickster basically)

[frail veldt]

well its better than having a boring rotation and being last on the meters...

I have a feeling there will be fewer dedicated players when outlaws poorly tuned with this new iteration of the design

lets just hope we hit the tuning lottery haha

[vapid sundial]

Our spec doesn't start with s

Sorry

[fossil lintel]

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24244402/introducing-the-wow-ambassador-program-find-your-people

[vapid sundial]

Did they even listen to those guys last time

[fossil lintel]

Looks like a discord community driven thing

[vapid sundial]

I recall they mostly ignored them

[fossil lintel]

That was the council

[vivid vessel]

isnt it the same shit

as the council thing

i mean idc

im not interacting

with blizzsard

shitters

they are all a bunch of incompetent

[fossil lintel]

This seems to be just them offloadinf work of dealing with new players

[frail veldt]

tell us how you really feel

[vapid sundial]

Last time he did that he lost green name

[fossil lintel]

Doesn't say it requires consent to be nominated though

Zac you have my vote

[frail veldt]

ngl I think these changes would have made him lose it again if he still had it haha

[vapid sundial]

I think he'd have gotten banned

[vivid vessel]

im legit reformed tho

so idk what you mean

[frail veldt]

im ready

doesnt seem like you can nominate others

its specifically for like if you yourself have a discord

it almost seems like what the program is doing is a submission for the discord itself

[vapid sundial]

'welcoming'

[fossil lintel]

Through the WoW Ambassador Program, official and partner Discord communities nominate standout members to represent WoW’s spirit of camaraderie.

[vapid sundial]

And Zac in the same sentence

[fossil lintel]

I think it's 2 steps, first become a partner discord

Then nominate

[vapid sundial]

Only person id nominate is lok

Frfr

[fossil lintel]

Nah we need to get Zac in there

It would be epic

If it's against his will then it's even better

[frail veldt]

not solo? smh my head

[vapid sundial]

Lokk

[frail veldt]

actually I nominate tobfon

outlaw dad

[lime lake]

i nominate ryu

[frail veldt]

LOL

unironically he would be LOVIN these changes

auto attack damage check

haste stacking check

[vapid sundial]

He probably is loving them

[frail veldt]

a rotation you cant fuck up check

[vapid sundial]

Maybe that's what happened

He went and got a job at blizzard

After being banned

[unborn musk]

to cheer poor rogues up: https://www.darklegacycomics.com/939 ..still love that one x)

[ocean lodge]

it's honestly hilarious to me that outlaw has been ignored for like 7 months in general.

[daring yoke]

i extended awang's combo points to suit my needs. have a secondary threshold now. so for example, at 5cp, all points green. at 6+ cps, all points blue.

now i can be at peace with WA 🫡

[tender wedge]

this has got to be just prepatch scaling right...

33% mastery, standard trickster m+ build on ST dummy

[bright crane]

rofl half the us servers down rn

[quiet ore]

Yeah, and the Americas & Oceana realm status page is just blank now

[untold wadi]

< 🔪

[rotund zodiac]

[untold wadi]

anyone know that guy "gram" who played outlaw?

or know his channel on yt

he didnt stream cuz he said he had bad internet

cant find his channel

p sure he was also a baguette

call me the fuckin detective

crazy, "outlaw" in my search was hiding him

[tender wedge]

does he owe you money or something

[untold wadi]

nah just needed his bangin playlist

[frail veldt]

Wat

[frail veldt]

Oh his yt channel

[untold wadi]

spotify yea

[frail veldt]

Wild

[round spindle]

Who broke the servers?

[mighty pivot]

legit lie

[jade crag]

Take it I'm not the only one with no characters then?

[round spindle]

It's at least 2 of us.

[unkempt cypress]

Me to im so PIST

[balmy topaz]

Is this right

For beta

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[balmy topaz]

I presume BTE should be a little higher than Dispatch

[gaunt phoenix]

it should be unless your crit is terrible

with beta template gear it probably is terrible

[balmy topaz]

This is where I am at currently

Tbf tho

I didn't have zero in on in that key

[gaunt phoenix]

that'll do it

[balmy topaz]

Outlaw dmg tho compared to survival and dev dh seems a bit low

apparently dev dh has a bugged talent atm tho

giving them like 25% extra haste all key

[woven tinsel]

Yep is the ultimate goat of goat

The guy who killed dimmy with he's Baguette stab

[buoyant stratus]

Outlaw is like just a liiiil bit behind survival but is still really good prio, also ur crit is quite low im playing like 45% with flask

Its less important on the dispatch build but bte build defo wants high crit

Also dagger offhand is like 1% or something

[balmy topaz]

On beta?

[buoyant stratus]

Ya

[balmy topaz]

Can I see your gear

[proven ocean]

Noobs

All of you

!!

@vivid vessel yes u included

!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668218401033814038/1445896194164527184/moo.webp

[balmy topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-rage-bait-baited-rage-baited-angry-dog-gif-2047466162835898859

[buoyant stratus]

Im at workies sorry logs wont show gear either

[buoyant stratus]

Okay apparently they will but not for me XD

[balmy topaz]

That's your gear it seems

Yeah you have like infinate more crit than me

[buoyant stratus]

Yeah i may have too much tbh

Im not raidbot so idk, could probably play versa flask instead with that much crit

My dispatch dam is still hella high tho, idk why its so much more than bte

I press bte on cd so idk

Could be gear, or just lots of dispatching during menacing rush

[balmy topaz]

Tbf

I have a shit ton of vers

Probs not great

[mighty pivot]

you don't have Zero In, and dunno if you have x3 bte crit either

[buoyant stratus]

Oh was this a heoghtened rush key? Oop

Been fiddling with diff talents

[mighty pivot]

yes in the ones with zero in and x3 crit your bte is closer

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2FgzcTWRCX39MtDy?fight=last&source=2&type=damage-done

[gaunt phoenix]

I need to see if the crit build is worth it in the first month of midnight

[balmy topaz]

Have you done much messing around with the builds atm?

[ebon reef]

my feelycraft says crit will be giga\

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes, but with 289 ilvl

[balmy topaz]

Have you got a link to them

Cus on beta you scale to 289 anyway

[gaunt phoenix]

The faq has them

[balmy topaz]

I can see links to talent pages but not like sims of gears sets with different talents

is there an outlaw mallet with them or a sim?

[gaunt phoenix]

If you are looking for 1 large sim that compares 47 talents, I don't have that to show

[balmy topaz]

All good, I presume from what you said though is that crit build will only be decent once you've hit a certain threshold of stats and until then you might stat slightly different until we have enough ilvl?

[proven ocean]

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes, but I don't know exactly what crit it will take over

[balmy topaz]

Crackin

[indigo token]

https://fixupx.com/videoslop/status/2017197023708033356?s=20

stupid glaggle (@videoslop)

**💬 2 🔁 114 ❤️ 1.0K 👁️ 12.4K **

FixupX · Jan 30, 2026, 11:23 AM

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/big-if-true-gif-25109955

[proven ocean]

@daring oxide

[sullen walrus]

good stats for beta?

[desert tendon]

i m no noob

zeross said

[stoic wagon]

hi, "Your opener will tend to be:
:adr: Adrenaline Rush > :rtb_jackpot: Roll the Bones > :bf: Blade Flurry (in AoE) > Keep it Rolling (if talented) > :talent_bladerush: Blade Rush > :bte: Between the Eyes > ... (continue priority)"
why between the eyes before blade rush please?

i mean blade rush before between the eyes

my bad

[pure folio]

CDR

[pastel sierra]

To have it on CD as quickly as possible so it's up earlier when AR ends

[stoic wagon]

isn't the 6% damage buff on between the eyes better to have it before blade rush?

[pastel sierra]

Blade rush is only used for energy

[frail veldt]

No blade rush is big damage

But the 6% damage is not worth the missing cdr

[pure folio]

Cdr>

[frail veldt]

The answer is that it was simmed and this is the result that did the most damage

[pure folio]

In solo we trust

[frail veldt]

P much

[stoic wagon]

what about single target? do you open with blade rush

?

[pure folio]

bladerush is one of our highest damage

[frail veldt]

You'd follow the same opener just not press blade flurry

[pure folio]

^

[frail veldt]

If you want to shift the order it probably doesn't matter much

The spec is a lot more forgiving now so you can play more from just vibes

[pure folio]

Yea I was about to say it’s pretty lenient so

[stoic wagon]

vanish never used anymore in rota?

[frail veldt]

Nope

[pure folio]

Just slight optimization

Not at all

[stoic wagon]

okok ty

[fast fossil]

might be a silly question, but what makes ambush a good button? why are there so many talents that make it more available?

[vivid vessel]

ambush is only good if you play ho cause it basically transform the button into sinister strike

otherwise its just a bad button

[pure folio]

u only use ambush if u are talented into hidden opportunity

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[pure folio]

^best to just use that and not think about it

[copper rover]

somone know why the colldown manager import from wowhead is not working on outlaw it seems the code is wrong

[cinder relic]

Cuz the import codes got bricked and I fixed them but apparently not

Give me like 20 minutes and I can fix them

[copper rover]

thank you 🙂

[midnight ridge]

is there a way to track antenna stacks?

[sullen walrus]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[balmy topaz]

Yeah okay I swapped to the crit build and this seems a lot more like it

This is 10mins on 3 target dummy so not sure if BR should be above

[copper radish]

Blade flurry 🤤

[fast fossil]

do you use it coming out of stealth to open?

[strange kelp]

This doesnt work anymore right? This was connected to the WA?

[frank finch]

aint this already the default most stat?

[crude flower]

Curious why does audacity / ho not see play atm? I assume ambush is just not hitting hard enough or the talents you’d have to lose by taking it aren’t worth it

[balmy topaz]

I was a leaning a bit more into vers out of habit tbh

[limpid isle]

cause its dog water. not even my dog would drink the water.

[fossil lintel]

It was nerfed going into midnight

And we care a lot more about energy now

[crude flower]

Ambush? Or audacity / ho

[fossil lintel]

HO

[crude flower]

True
Deffo felt better since I raised my haste tho

[crude flower]

What was the nerf? Just curious

[fossil lintel]

Lower chance for opportunity procs from ambush iirc

Oh, no, not opportunity, I think it no longer hits twice, just grant the opp proc

[honest sparrow]

It does not and before it also hit 3 times sometimes because of the bug. So its a even bigger nerf

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, that plus the lower energy efficiency and it's not really worth it

[crude flower]

Oh damn
Shame cause I thought the talent was cool

Then again idk how fun it was to play as a main cause I didn’t touch outlaw much

[fossil lintel]

KIR was a lot more fun than HO

[crude flower]

Every single time I see kIR

I think people mean echoing reprimand

But then it registers that it’s keep it rolling

Cause when I hear KIR I think Kirian

Or whatever the bastion thing was called

[fossil lintel]

I miss ER

[jolly geyser]

shadowlands remix around the corner

[fossil lintel]

Oh yeah, chance to play dust er outlaw again

[jolly geyser]

(no idea)

[crude flower]

Ib4 “remix is a canonical event part of the jailers plan” or smth

[jolly geyser]

blizz is just ignoring jailer now tbh

[crude flower]

The only outlaw I really know is this one and last seasons one

I did play outlaw in SL season one but I basically didn’t have sentience

No idea what a guide was and played on like 10fps

[crude flower]

Good

[fossil lintel]

It's all part of his plan to be ignored though

[crude flower]

Ngl tho I do think outlaw feels fun atm

Minus the small bits of low energy

[fossil lintel]

Gonna wait for classic shadowlands so I can play rygelon with out 15 feet blade flurry range again

[crude flower]

Can’t wait to play survival in season 3

[pure folio]

its just our filler rotation :(

[fossil lintel]

I mean, that was basically outlaw before crackshot as well

[crude flower]

Yea

It’s fun

I had a friend try it again after a bit and the biggest complaint was no permanent adrenaline rush

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, we got used to lower gcd

[frail veldt]

It's 0% haha

[crude flower]

What

[frail veldt]

They made ambush not able to proc opp

Killed the talent

[vapid sundial]

Wtf

[crude flower]

What the fuck is the point

[fossil lintel]

Ambush procs opp

[frail veldt]

It can double hit

[fossil lintel]

It's literally the only thing the talent does now

[vapid sundial]

The more of these changes I read and see

[frail veldt]

It doesn't grant opp

[vapid sundial]

The worse I think this company is

Actually the worst in the industry

[frail veldt]

The talent makes ambush able to double hit

[crude flower]

Wait

[crude flower]

The outlaw talent changes made you think that

And not the sexual harassment cases

[frail veldt]

That's the old one

[fossil lintel]

No, that's the 12.0 version

[vapid sundial]

Conduct has nothing to do with design

Doesn't mean I agree with it

[frail veldt]

That's literally what we had in tww lol

[vapid sundial]

But I'm not gonna be delusional and YKnow

[crude flower]

Oh
You moreso mean how the company makes the games as opposed to the company itself?

Or

[vapid sundial]

Yes

[crude flower]

Ahhh gotcha gotcha

[vapid sundial]

Worst class designers

Etc

[crude flower]

Tbh I was just saying it to be silly anyway

[fossil lintel]

This is the tww version

Which did strike twice and gave opp

Now it only gives opp

[frail veldt]

Maybe I'm mixing it up but I thought the thing they removed was the opp and not the double hit

It's always been 80%

Well since tww

[fossil lintel]

They seem to have removed the double hit

[crude flower]

Brb gotta drive

[vapid sundial]

Anyway

From everything I've seen

The ebb and flow of outlaw just doesn't seem to be there

[mighty pivot]

they removed the double hit, and fth having multiple chances to proc it (another indirect nerf is vanish no longer on RB to make subterfuge worth it)

[fossil lintel]

The flow of outlaw is fine? We just went back to pre crackshot era

[frail veldt]

Aaaaaah

[balmy topaz]

Anyone know where you get this from

[frail veldt]

I think it's noticeable how stagnant our rotation variety is now that CTO is gone

Your builder spender rules now only change once every 30s at most since it only happens from rtb

[copper radish]

Isn’t that one of the new raid drops?

[fast fossil]

Pistol shot will only ever gen max 4 cp right

[vapid sundial]

'I think this is bad'

"no it's fine!"

Very good conversation

It goes far

[fossil lintel]

You either mald enough to quit the game, or live to become forever guy I guess

[vapid sundial]

I quit awhile ago

Im waiting for the last embers to burn out

To have no hope

[mighty pivot]

12.1 will fix everything guys worry not

[vapid sundial]

Only for 12.3 to fuck it all up again

[tawny thorn]

Is outlaw still ridiculous high apm after prepatch ?

[vapid sundial]

Meh

[fossil lintel]

12.1: law and order is restablished, we pruned outlaw

Perma AR was bound to be killed, I'm surprised it lasted this long. Every other case where you had an uptime dependant cd that could be kept for almost 100% of the time it was removed

[covert kestrel]

im seriously considering a break angle just to let the dust settle from addon fuckup and the pruning, but i'd miss the homies and get fomo while they kept grinding

[vapid sundial]

Perma AR needed to go.

Haste tax needs to go
Give back acro

Make KS prio. (Idk if they did this yet)

[fossil lintel]

Just kill KS

[frail veldt]

Those changes aren't even the issue imo though

I think people hated uhuh so much they are just happy to have any version of outlaw without it

[fossil lintel]

They could just make ace give back 5 CP and it would go back to having the chains of dopamine

[frail veldt]

but the things that were lost and the issues that were ignored are more concerning imo

bladeflurry uptime is still super awk

defensive pruning is really bad for the spec

feint still costing energy is a crime

[vapid sundial]

Defensive pruning AND haste tax, so it's a double whammy

[tropic zephyr]

Yeah, and no agency on when to do dam

[frail veldt]

builder spender rotation variance is lower than any previous version of outlaw ive seen

no damage agency yeah

no burst for damage windows

[vapid sundial]

This is a nothingburger

Outlaw has never really had that

[tropic zephyr]

Wut

[frail veldt]

and its always been an issue lol

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, we've always been pretty flat

[vapid sundial]

It's just the way the spec plays

I'm fine being flat dmg

[tropic zephyr]

We had that since 2 charges vanish

[fossil lintel]

I prefer outlaw because it's flat

[frail veldt]

I think you can be flat but still have SOME flexibility of when to dump damage if you need to

not via some huge cooldown

but at least have a button that does damage

[vapid sundial]

It was usually via a trinket for us

For actual dmg

[frail veldt]

even KS was pruned so hard its not even an increase in dpet over our rotatiojn

[frail veldt]

thats gone now

[vapid sundial]

Ye

[frail veldt]

no crit chance bonus from bte

and not vers class

we still have a haste tax

[vapid sundial]

Blizzard removed all the fun stuff from outlaw.

[vapid sundial]

,*doubled down

[frail veldt]

I mean I get that people didnt like uhuh but I think its kinda silly to ignore the issues that outlaw has had and werent fixed in addition to the issues ADDED to the spec haha

[vapid sundial]

They doubled our haste tax and also gave it to sub

[frail veldt]

and tbh its a non argument to just dimiss factual issues with the spec as dooming lol

but I guess thast what people do when they have no actual stance to take

[tropic zephyr]

Yeah, removing our defensives and keeping the haste tax is diabolical

[vapid sundial]

I don't mind being flat dmg

What do you mean

That is literally my argument

I am fine being flat

Xddd

[frail veldt]

did you not see the other 10 things I listed lol

im also not talking directly to you

its a general statement

[fossil lintel]

I haven't seen anyone dismiss those though

[frail veldt]

"im having fun shrug"
"have you tried enjoying the game"
"imagine spending all your time dooming"

its endless

[vapid sundial]

The only thing that I ever see dismissed is the no burst

Unfortunately if no one dooms the game doesn't get better

But at this point

Seems blizzard doesn't care what any players want

[fossil lintel]

I just said the spec flow is fine, but flow does not require anything you said

[frail veldt]

I just wish they would make a vendiagram of things the variety of players complain about and fix the common ground issues

like I know people like different things about the spec

[soft bobcat]

I think that bte reset is a bit slow. And killing spree feels like a wet noodle the rest is pretty smooth and I’m only a little behind fury warriors

[frail veldt]

but theres a lot that can be agreed on as problems

and they just continuially ignore those issues

iiwii ig

[soft bobcat]

Sin feels way worse right now than outlaw

[frail veldt]

thats an interesting thing I feel like is consistent across specs is that everyone thinks their main is gone to shit and everyone whos an alt or new player is excited about the changes haha

[vapid sundial]

I mean

Tbh

This isn't me dooming right but

The fact is

Them doubling down on haste tax shows me they do not care or listen

When literally almost everyone complained about it

[frail veldt]

yeah that ones mind blowing haha

[vapid sundial]

IF THAT one thing was gone

I'd have come back

But them willingly showing they don't care is just insane

[crude flower]

I just like going slash slash bang bang

[frail veldt]

I mean theres also stuff like bladeflurry. Do peopple want to have to worry about it falling off if you press it at the end of a pack and dont have the cdr to get it back for the next pack?

wouldnt fixing that be something that just net benefits everyone?

or at the worst has no effect if someones like an only raider

[pure folio]

imo I feel like that is apart of the skill expression to a degree since the game is so simple now and we don’t really have a dmg cooldown, plus not like it takes long to get it back

[sullen walrus]

macro for tricks?

can someone share pls

[frail veldt]

Sure but there are probably healthier/more fun skill expression they could add back

[pure folio]

Like bringing back old KS >:)

[vapid sundial]

no

Nuke this guy

[pure folio]

Idc old KS was peak

What’s the point in playing a gambling class if ur not gambling your life

[frail veldt]

thats one of those polarizing ones

even if you liked it there are enough people who hated it where the ability was arguably a net loss on the fun of the spec

the fun part of gambling is winning not losing

and KS was never winning

it was only losing

[pure folio]

TRUE that’s why you make it a choice node

Boom!

[frail veldt]

its not like it did big damage

[frank finch]

delves i think

[frail veldt]

so it was all risk and no reward

its like objectively bad design

[frank finch]

i remember it being on delve vendor on beta

[vapid sundial]

It was more so they forced it into our rotation, with hero talents

[pure folio]

True but it was objectively sick asf to look at

[vapid sundial]

Meh

[frail veldt]

bro just shake your mouse around

if you want to replicate it

[vapid sundial]

Outlaw is not the spec to play if you want to be flashy

[pure folio]

it’s only a fraction of the feeling 💔

I mean i main outlaw because it was the hardest and fastest

[pastel sierra]

You are REALLY flashy if u start blinking around with a big AoE on u tho

[fossil lintel]

Old KS was better than new KS simply because it prioed

[cinder relic]

I think new KS looks cool

[thick vigil]

Well you have to live during old KS to look flashy

[frail veldt]

same

[fossil lintel]

But I would prefer no KS at all, thankfully fatebound is on top

[vapid sundial]

Literally just needs to prio so it doesn't feel as bad

[frail veldt]

but new KS hitting random targets is pretty oof

if they didnt fuck that up it prob would have been received well

[cinder relic]

I like that KS is trickster only

Its the same as bstorm for arms in my head. The ability is mid but you use it to activate a bunch of synergies, and then if you don't go that hero talent, you don't go it

[frail veldt]

same

[fossil lintel]

Problem is that perma tricks is also trickster only 😂

[crude flower]

Also did some shuffling around and both 2 points into Summarily dispatched / menacing rush sim a bit higher than find an opening
Which i might try

[frail veldt]

I thought fury also uses bladestorm

[crude flower]

Well duh

a good trickster has tricks

[haughty moat]

with smart tricks gone, this is a real problem for me^^

[vivid vessel]

i like that i still cant kick during killing spree

[cinder relic]

Well funny enough, in prepatch you don't

[fossil lintel]

Yeah but it forces me into KS which just sucks in general

[vivid vessel]

it feels very good !

[cinder relic]

But yeah, fury goes blade storm usually

[frail veldt]

thats good, I have a war main friend who really hated that

and the fact that fury was also an execute class now

kinda stole arms' identity in tww

[cinder relic]

the only real identity the classes have is just like, arms is slow and fury is fast

Sometimes fury is OP execute sometimes its Arms

[frail veldt]

they do seem quite close now in their like specialties

did you swap back and forth based on boss at all in tww?

[cinder relic]

not really

it was just 1 was tuned higher so u played it

I think in 2nd tier technically arms was better on like, stix

[granite merlin]

Can you send me that code for your sick layout ❤️

[cinder relic]

Sorry misrememberd had it backwards

In undermine it was back and forward on paper to play diff specs

[frail veldt]

thats good

I kinda like when its like that

[cinder relic]

Like cauldron was arms cuz 2 target with CDs, rik was fury cuz spam damage better than Cds, OAB and mugzee was arms and then gallywix was fury

But like, it lowkey didn't matter, I think most ppl just played arms the whole time

Fury was more AOE and Arms was more ST, but Fury also a soft funnel that tier iirc

[granite merlin]

lol it feels like they didn’t even look at HO talents

But were like “but options”

[frail veldt]

I think they wanted to tone down filling your whole combo points with one builder

which might be why they took out the double ambush hit

[strange kelp]

They made Avatar and Bladestorm a choice node for Fury... so likely Fury never goes BS again

[granite merlin]

Yeah but it feels like they could just remove that whole line.

Because right meow I am not sure how it would ever fit into anything lol

[frail veldt]

I mean if they buff its damage it will

thats all theyd have to do to make us take it

make ambush hit harder haha

[cinder relic]

Iirc u go bladestorm after u get all the apex talents

[strange kelp]

Maybe, but it also seems hard to pass up on a 20% dmg amp which perfectly lines up with Reck

[cinder relic]

Sadly seems they missed it when redesigning all the stealth shit away. I think a tier set could easily push it up again though

[strange kelp]

But I guess we'll see

[granite merlin]

That’s a good point

At some point I’ll try to figure out a build just to mess around in low keys lol

[vapid blaze]

think they will ever fix the ho bug

[keen belfry]

solo

is there anyway trickster is better at low illv/crit

[untold wadi]

think they will ever fix the grapple bug

[vivid vessel]

[craggy barn]

grapple was too fast and disorienting and deserves to be nerfed. otherwise outlaw will be the op rogue pvp spec again!

[crude flower]

Anyone else unable to track prep on the cd manager?

[fossil lintel]

I guess you're not prepared

[crude flower]

True

was just asking cause prep sims higher that SD for me on ST

[untold wadi]

[jolly geyser]

merry christmas zac

[keen belfry]

become a code owner for wangbar

[mighty pivot]

zac will submit PRs for wangbar

[keen belfry]

yes

NR we can negotiate your salary too

[mighty pivot]

6 figures and a fast grapple

[wintry solar]

I fucked up

I deleted an entire room in my house

[mighty pivot]

irl? that'll teach you where to store your grenades

[wintry solar]

was about to boot up Once Human but I gotta fix my mistake

[mighty pivot]

just ctrl z

[keen belfry]

i dont want to solo dev anymore

[mighty pivot]

https://giphy.com/gifs/friends-analogy-VfyC5j7sR4cso

why won't harlan sweete give me mythic head?

[past falcon]

hello?

[keen belfry]

riddict dev?

[frail veldt]

Just give us all access

What could go wrong

[covert kestrel]

lets make a brand new coding language just for wangbar

[frail veldt]

Ooo smart

A wang oriented programming language

[low glade]

!awangui

[modest nova]

Hey, can we disable Blizzard's aura from opportunity proc ?

[zinc briar]

Are we going to be meta this season?

[frail veldt]

In raid or m+

[zinc briar]

We cant grip, bl, cr, mass barrier etc...

[frail veldt]

and by raid do you mean CE prog or just casual raiding

[zinc briar]

We wont be invited to m+

Lets gooo

[frail veldt]

if we do enough damage we can be meta

[frail veldt]

if our defensive pruning doesnt turn us into a wet noodle

[modest nova]

Outlaw and sub are ok in the beta atm

[frail veldt]

in what content specifically?

[modest nova]

M+

Outlaw > sub > Assa

for M+

[zinc briar]

But what we give to the group? Poison of 3% less dmg?? Woaaaaaah

[modest nova]

But the majoirity of big keys will be caster meta

[frail veldt]

nice, what key levels is that at? Cuz going into TWW we looked great in m+ but then we didnt scale and had capped aoe and we fell off

outlaw kinda always does great in lower ish keys before people have routes optimized cuz pulls are smaller

[modest nova]

tbh some ppl hate on pekto for tierlist, but he tried evry spec evrery day with class tuning so he know he does

[zinc briar]

Ah wait, we got shroud!!!

We are meta

And distract!!

[modest nova]

seems like skip are not that important for S1 dungeon

[frail veldt]

hes trolling

cuz outlaw brings nothing to the group

[modest nova]

y ikr

just saying

[frail veldt]

so it has to severely outperform every other spec in the game to warrant being brought

since it has no other value than it smeters

unlike many other specs that bring group utility/raid buffs/etc

[zinc briar]

Imagine winning the tank in A.Academy

We'll shine there

[frail veldt]

but its possible we are tuned well enough to just stomp meters and get a spot which would be nice

[zinc briar]

In the 1st pull

Lets goooooo

[low glade]

i mean, you're playing at max possible gear

and people are doing 15s-20s on beta

so it's essentially an end-of-season snapshot

the only thing that's not "captured" is inevitable tuning

[frail veldt]

People still go way higher in the actual season

By like 5-8 key levels sometimes

[low glade]

you think they'll be doing 28s next season?

[lime lake]

its also not max possible gear

its 2/6 mythic in keys

unless it scales higher with higher keys actually

im not sure there

[low glade]

you scale up in higher keys

[lime lake]

ye fair

still people always end up doing way higher keys on live than they do on beta

meta solidifies and people learn the strats

[low glade]

they were doing like 20s/21s on tww s3 beta

and the highest we got was a few 23s

on live

[lime lake]

23 is way higher than 20

[low glade]

so it's not "way higher"

[vivid vessel]

i dont think they did 23 on live did they

it was possible but

idk if they got the time to time 23

its only street and gambit

[low glade]

didn't casual's group do one?

[vivid vessel]

maybe

[vivid vessel]

huge !

[low glade]

did you guys try one with your comp?

[vivid vessel]

yes

i mean we could have timed

but you know our feral went away

so it was a bit

gg after that

[low glade]

your 22 gambit was giga

you guys had like

almost 3 mins left

[vivid vessel]

i mean its street and gambit

we could have done

[low glade]

based

[exotic gale]

pog

[gaunt phoenix]

[upper hawk]

That collection of randomly placed icons validates my life choices

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel your first task is allowing dynamic width based off the width of your cd bar

I almost had it

[vivid vessel]

just copy what the addons are doing

every addon does it

also its prolyl very easy

you can prolly get the frame

of the cd manager

altough maybe its annoying if some addons bypass that

and do weird thing

but i assume there is a container frame

for the cd amnager

and you can take tht width directly

[abstract frost]

Would you rather bring survival or outlaw to a phys comp

[vivid vessel]

otherwise you have to calculate it manually

which isnt that hard either

[abstract frost]

🤔

[vivid vessel]

why would you ever bring outlaw to any comp

[abstract frost]

Yellow color is nice

[keen belfry]

Do it

[abstract frost]

Reminds me of the sun

Good feels

[vivid vessel]

why me

its your addon bud

[keen belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/npc-behavior-be-like-gif-10607292567092564523

[vivid vessel]

bro awang its prolly not that hard

i told you 2 ways already

dont forget you can /fstack

to find frames

also use devtool

addon

to figure out what data you need

[young raptor]

Guys, I have a question about the rotation.
I feel awkward pressing Killing Spree during Adrenaline Rush, and the opener in general feels kinda weird to me. I understand that this has probably already been theorycrafted, but still.

In AoE packs we currently follow the guide and do:
AR - RtB - BF - BR - BtE
The issue is that we lose CP from Blade Flurry, and on top of that we’re casting KS during AR, so we’re not benefiting from AR’s reduced GCD and energy regen at that moment.
How much sense does it really make to start with AR?
For example, what if before the key starts we press AR, get the RtB buff, and then enter the pack like this:
RtB (already buffed, since it carries over from pre-pull) - BF - BtE - build to 6–7 CP - KS - Dispatch - AR - continue the rotation.
To me this looks pretty logical. What do you think?

[vivid vessel]

just snd i guess

these things dont matter much for outlaw

especially since its legit once in the key

and like

[gaunt phoenix]

You definitely should not cast 3 finishers before AR, you lose cooldown reduction

[vivid vessel]

you cant even really theorycraft it

cause it just happens once a key

unless you do 20s sims or smth it will be hard to see a difference

between some stuffs like these

tho i think you can just adr rtb snd prepull if you want

then snd is already up and you dont lose the cps

[young raptor]

It then goes further as KS and AR has the same cd
We do want to press ks before ar and starting like this just allows us to constantly not press ks during ar

But yeah I got the point

Anyways we lose something

[vivid vessel]

hm

are they the same cd

prolly not with trickster right

whats ks cd

[gaunt phoenix]

they do end up similar

[vivid vessel]

he does have a point that if they actually sync up

and you can always cast it before

it might not be bad

[young raptor]

I tried playing this today. Felt good

[vivid vessel]

tho ks is lower cd

cause of trickster

itos 3min - 10%

whatever the fuck that gives you

[strange kelp]

Like 18s?

[vivid vessel]

who knows

not me

[young raptor]

It desyncs sometimes though still if we need to hold when pack dies

And then it starts feeling awkward

[gaunt phoenix]

If BtE and KS and AR are all ready, I don't think you should wait until you expended BtE (which can proc), and then KS, and then finally AR

I mostly press KS during AR and then cancel it at 6/7, I think it's unlikely some kind of rotation disruption will beat this

but it is true is difficult to prove

[keen belfry]

ooo

[young raptor]

Makes sense yeah

Thanks!

[keen belfry]

anyway that AR at 3 CP if BTE reset is better?

or is it nice to get all BTE stacks out before AR

[gaunt phoenix]

I should look at the opening SND though

cause you can go a bit without actually getting snd active

[vivid vessel]

in keys you have the cps from before the key

also

so its not even real

in raid tho

its a bit weird

[gaunt phoenix]

No you want to AR before BtE

but then you are forced to KS during AR

sucks but it's w.e

cancel it

[keen belfry]

i mean in the scenarios where you get AR up during BTE resets, not just opener

but yeah

ks during ar is rough lol

regardless of how bad # wise, it just feels bad

i could still yap about AR but i just think AR is so stinky now

but oh well!

[frail veldt]

is KSing during adr that bad if its combo points per execute time is still higher than what you would be doing otherwise during adr?

[daring yoke]

Do we have any prekey fuckery anymore

[keen belfry]

AR KS

[daring yoke]

If fatebound. Just AR?

Or nothing

[keen belfry]

AR for free RTB and 2 cps

[daring yoke]

And open with rtb then ar?

[sullen geode]

What the hell did they do to outlaw? WTF is this

[frail veldt]

they made it approachable

[sullen geode]

this plays like ass

[vivid vessel]

welcome to the champion club

[frail veldt]

lolol

[tired pollen]

I just SS and spam PS when it pops

[frail veldt]

yeah the builder/spender rules are like 3 lines of logic

some people enjoy that though

[gaunt phoenix]

I mean the builder logic has always been like that

[sullen geode]

Rogues are dead all 3 speccs are boring

[tired pollen]

I feel more fluid with outlaw vs sub

[vivid vessel]

i would hope so

sub got 2 buttons

sub cdm is 3 icons

that spec is not real

[fossil lintel]

Does it matter how many buttons you have? At the end of the day all that matters is autos

[covert kestrel]

main gaushee

[craggy barn]

rogue specs being more approachable will surely skyrocket our popularity and then we will get all of the design and balance attention!

[soft bobcat]

False

[craggy barn]

removing stealth from damage rotation means we are giga popular now!

[soft bobcat]

Also false

[craggy barn]

big success against the elitist discord jerks!

[soft bobcat]

True

[agile orchid]

no but maybe reddit will shut the fuck up about rogue

[craggy barn]

[hearty lagoon]

meh, all classes are approachable now

[craggy barn]

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[fossil lintel]

I know people who unironicaly are hyped for sub rogue gameplay

[hearty lagoon]

was just watching shindig playing sub zzzzzzzzzzzz

[agile orchid]

the rework completely killed the spec for me

[fossil lintel]

To the point of considering maining rogue

[craggy barn]

im literally still the only high level rogue player in my guild

and im not even playing rog in midnight bc we need a tank

the only other rogs are long time casual rog players

my more casual guild also has 0 rogues

(and 0 hunters funily enough)

going into midnight

[hearty lagoon]

what is the new high skill sceling class now ? feel like it was outlaw before, but now idk

[vivid vessel]

probably none

if you liked hard spec you just play another game

i guess idk

[agile orchid]

maybe if they stopped making rogue gameplay more dogshit every patch

[hearty lagoon]

might aswell roll BM CYA GUYS !

[craggy barn]

BDK, because u have to be skilled enough to know that your health bar doesnt matter

[agile orchid]

people would play it

[craggy barn]

[fossil lintel]

Classic Wod is around the corner the highest skill ceiling may be there

[fathom bramble]

probably a spec that just requires 100% uptime and a reasonably high reaction time

none of the rotations are really that complicated anymore

[craggy barn]

i know quite amount of people who just get scared about their health as bdk

[fathom bramble]

so it all rests on speed

[fossil lintel]

What other game has specs like this? Most other MMOs are super simple as well

[agile orchid]

nah they nerfed that too

[vivid vessel]

yes

play real life

[agile orchid]

they nerfed deathstrike so your self sustain is bad

[vivid vessel]

games are not meant for us anymore

[agile orchid]

and they didn't bother to give them the armor compensation

[hearty lagoon]

murtaz still playing feral? that just looks like a full bleed class now

[fossil lintel]

Real life is the one where you sweat a lot right? No thanks

[fathom bramble]

feral got a new spell thatin practice seems quite strange

chomp gang

everything revolves around chomp

[vivid vessel]

idk he stopped playing toward end of season

not sure he comes back

[civic meadow]

Rune of sanguination says otherwise

[fathom bramble]

they maybe don't take chomp in keys though iirc]

since it is pure ST

[gaunt phoenix]

chomp chomp

[fathom bramble]

this spell is designed upside down imo

it should do like no damage and just generate a bit of energy

[civic meadow]

Is that not the highest ap scaling

holy

[fathom bramble]

be a fallback for when out of energy not promote instantly dumping energy to cast it

[fathom bramble]

yeah it looks like the old spells from before the attack power/weapon damage reworks

[frail veldt]

ive heard this has an amazing sound effect

[civic meadow]

It does have a good one yeah

[fathom bramble]

same base damage as a 15 combo points dispatch

[civic meadow]

[fathom bramble]

it makes them do shit like dump energy in the prepull

[lime lake]

chomp gaming

[fathom bramble]

to cast it immediately

[civic meadow]

theyre still snapshotting too iirc

just differently now

[fathom bramble]

yeah and snapshotting shows better in the base ui

[civic meadow]

Cant have buffs on frames though!

[ebon reef]

do you guys prefer to have your rtb as a tracked buff or a tracked bar?

[cinder relic]

I like the cooldown bar

[ebon reef]

im just fiddling with the cdm but cant decide

might stay w the bar

[pastel sierra]

i like the icon

[molten oasis]

Hey how is outlaw looking/feeling mainly in midnight? Assume it’s about the same

Also KS do you use it inside AR?

[covert kestrel]

Looks pretty yellow to me

[agile orchid]

slower and more energy starved

[molten oasis]

Still about the same fun wise I know tuning is a thing and sub/outlaw are “same” ish

But that can chance

Change

[agile orchid]

energy starvation is not fun

[molten oasis]

With using KS in side of AR is that a thing?

[soft bobcat]

Sin is way worse

[agile orchid]

no clue, I am rerolling from rogue

[molten oasis]

Never touched and won’t touch lol

[agile orchid]

sin is expected to be slow

outlaw isn't

[soft bobcat]

Outlaw is slower the bte procs need to be faster than they are and ks needs to deal more damage

But yea gonna start on my fury war and see what the hype is

[agile orchid]

do yourself a favor and play fury

it's way smoother and does proper damage

[cinder relic]

I think as of right now, Outlaw is way better than fury on beta

Js

[soft bobcat]

I mean I feel like law is smooth other than the between the eye procs they need to be smoother

[fathom bramble]

I would rather KS not deal more damage until it is actually fun to press

channel is still too long

[soft bobcat]

Yea with the apex talent law is better

[fathom bramble]

damage is still on random enemies

[soft bobcat]

You can move with the channel

You can grapple with it

Regain energy with it

Not to terrible

[cinder relic]

I like KS as is tbqh. If it did more damage it'd means both builds play it which I don't think is ideal

[fathom bramble]

those definitely prevent it from being an even worse spell

but as it stands I would still rather not have it on my bar and let it be trickster only

ideally you can just go trickster if you want KS and fatebound if not if tuning is good

[cinder relic]

^

[soft bobcat]

Oh I’ve been playing trickster right now

[frail veldt]

Performance wise specifically?

Or like rotation wise

[ebon reef]

hope it stays that way

personally from what ive tested outlaw seems to be one of the only specs that are still fun to play

[granite merlin]

And HO if….

Enhance is fun. IMO shadow is kinda fun, Windwalker is still engaging “sort of” with its fist weaving

Arms is still sort of complex with its new sweeping strikes thing

[ebon reef]

did they trim enhance a lot

[granite merlin]

Ehhh

[ebon reef]

ive hard some shamans complain about ascendance

[granite merlin]

Not really ish

[stuck patrol]

Sub kind of feels like "crackshot" build from last season if every crackshot window had adr and you didn't have adr out of the windows. If you squint really hard

[granite merlin]

It’s a moot point everyone plays totemic

[ebon reef]

true and real

[stuck patrol]

So it's still "fun" but more boring

[granite merlin]

It’s doom winds sundering hot hands

[stuck patrol]

Outlaw is way more chill and has a flow to it

[ebon reef]

yeah no im not playing sub anymore

i cant bear how it plays now

😭

[granite merlin]

It’s super weird having only 2 buttons

[fathom bramble]

sub not really doing anything outside of dance and dance uptime going even lower kind of kills it for me

[stuck patrol]

Even if HO was good it wouldn't be fun as it is rn, it only has a chance to give opportunity, it can't even strike twice anymore

[granite merlin]

like assassination losing 2 buttons in single is kind of a bummer

[ebon reef]

yeah it got to the point you can actually clickcast sub

[stuck patrol]

I thought dance uptime is higher now bc it's a 20 sec CD?

[granite merlin]

I’m tempted to play on a Xbox controller and playing sub lol

[granite merlin]

You have to wait for sec tec

[ebon reef]

yeah

you dont send sectec without dance anymore

[stuck patrol]

Yeah but it's also 20 secs

[granite merlin]

With like 40% haste

[ebon reef]

and you dont send dance without sectec anymore

[stuck patrol]

I mean I do have a lot of haste rn lmao

[granite merlin]

Yeah that’s why

[ebon reef]

i also have a lot (3%)

[granite merlin]

Abahahahahab

[fathom bramble]

I swear it 'felt' like more uptime before

[stuck patrol]

I'm at 33% haste rn

[fathom bramble]

but maybe it is more uptime now and it just doesn't do enough

[granite merlin]

lol your sec Tex is like 1.5 mins with 3% haste

[fathom bramble]

and I'm wrongfully blaming dance

[granite merlin]

It adds time

[stuck patrol]

It's because you need a lot of haste to extend SD duration

[ebon reef]

welp

[stuck patrol]

I'm saying this as someone who always hated sub bc of the long downtime where I'm just spamming backstab

[ebon reef]

welcome to wow controller era

[stuck patrol]

It feels more fun bc I feel like I'm in dance more often

It's still kinda boring tho, not a lot to do

It just feels like button smashing kinda fun during dance

[ebon reef]

for me the burst far outweights the downtime cuz u still had to like reapply rupture and get a few cdrs that you usually do before the next cd set

so the downtime isnt that horrible for me

[granite merlin]

Makes for a hella clean ui though

[stuck patrol]

Yeah I get that, but having a long period where my apm drastically go down where I have to auto attack to wait for energy while pressing one button over and over felt super bleh

[fathom bramble]

I've always thought a lack of energy should make you change what you're doing not do nothing

[ebon reef]

on some fight instances it was great because you burst, then during downtime a mechanic happens so you dont miss out too much

[stuck patrol]

At least with sin your pooling has you pooling to a certain amount and then dumping it. Sub just felt randomok if I could press button or jot

Not

[fathom bramble]

the moment to moment gameplay should be casting something cheaper/free instead of doing literally nothing

but rogue specs are very rarely like that

[ebon reef]

fair take

[stuck patrol]

You're just lucky, if always just get mechanics during my burst LMAO

[ebon reef]

but also at the same time i feel like subs design would prevent being able to do much during downtime

else itd have too much upfront damage

[fathom bramble]

anothing energy management thing is to have clear times that you should and will want to hold deliberately

[ebon reef]

immunity not assigned -> immunity to finish cooldowns

[fathom bramble]

vs, just holding because you literally can't cast

[stuck patrol]

I've always suggested having a button you press that does very low damage but doesn't cost energy, which I think feral got this expack

[fathom bramble]

chomp is kind of the reverse of that

it does infinite damage and incentivises running out of energy when you have it off cd

or not necessarily reverse