outlaw

[frail veldt]

If they want addons to not be an advantage they need to continue spending effort into making the base version of the game have as many features/improvements as addons provide

[vapid blaze]

well yeah
they should do that nomatter what tho, addons or no addons

[frail veldt]

thats whats frustrating to me was that they implied they were going to follow that course of action

where they first develop the substitutes

then dial addons back to meet in the middle

but instead they rug pulled the addons

then served us a very very very unfinished blizzard branded version

[vapid blaze]

there is legit 0 reason to have a shitty base ui

[frail veldt]

I agree

[vapid blaze]

even if you have addons that fix almost all parts

[lime lake]

im very curious to know what happened to make them do that 180

[vapid blaze]

and the base ui in wow is disgraceful

[frail veldt]

they probably should have spent all of midnight improving base UI

then after midnight cut the cord

[lime lake]

like yeah i know its blizzard and they say shit then do the opposite a lot

[frail veldt]

failure?

[covert kestrel]

reality

[lime lake]

but i really do think this was meant to be a slower rollout

[lime lake]

they hadnt even started before they changed course

they didnt have time to fail

[frail veldt]

I think some upper management actually thought they could deliver a substitute

[lime lake]

someone higher up made the decision

[frail veldt]

and the devs were probably like "bro we need way more time"

and they were like nah

then shit started hitting the fan

and now ions pretending this was the plan all along

its embarassing honestly

[white mantle]

Is there still a way to auto adjust spell que after the WA got purged

[frail veldt]

wdym auto adjust

[white mantle]

There was a weak aura that would auto adjust your Spell que based on your World ping

[frail veldt]

you can still adjust spell queue via cli or addon like advanced interface options

[frail veldt]

I have never heard of that lol

probably cant do that anymore I would imagine

[white mantle]

[frail veldt]

thats honestly wild

I think i would hate that so much hahaha

[mighty pivot]

unless you ping fluctuates massively you don't need something like that

[covert kestrel]

still think sqw is the most misunderstood setting that people hyperfixate on as a source of their issues

[white mantle]

It was just qol bro

chill

[frail veldt]

1000000000%

[covert kestrel]

me when someone writes one sentence

[frail veldt]

I think ive had to re-explain sqw probably hundreds of times

[white mantle]

me when i inderectly throw shade at a subject for someone that was looking to see if anyone knew the answer

[frail veldt]

youre making up shade

there is none

[keen belfry]

its actually so boring

[white mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/suicide-noose-rope-sewercide-imdone-gif-24206679

[keen belfry]

it was fun for 2 hours day 1 prepatch

[covert kestrel]

its always the anime profile pics

[white mantle]

and its always the outlaw channel

why did i bother

[keen belfry]

dip then cuh

[white mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/made-by-bimasakti-peace-out-ice-age-peace-out-gif-6840390250488818878

[lime lake]

wtf

you boolies

[covert kestrel]

LMAO HE QUIT THE SERVER

[mighty pivot]

he left

[strange kelp]

There were a few cases I felt it, like this s3 arcane tier set window. Overall though yeah

[frail veldt]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

he was never going to last

[copper radish]

👋

[frail veldt]

that was the most benign discussion ever

unreal

[keen belfry]

i didnt even read the conversation but im gonna guess he was wrong

let me go read rq

[copper radish]

Not even reading all that lmao

[covert kestrel]

yeah there is still something weird about high haste specs and processing inputs, was felt in outlaw and like bm with global capped specs but didnt have to do with sqw

[covert kestrel]

it was like 6 messages total

[mighty pivot]

me when my SQW doesn't autoadjust by 2ms to make up for jitter

[keen belfry]

oh yeah that guy seems like a dumbass

not even flaming

like an objective dummy

[covert kestrel]

i shouldve vibe coded an addon for him that just occasionally sends a message (adjusted for 1ms difference in world ping)

[mighty pivot]

placebo addon

[covert kestrel]

it wouldve worked on him

guaranteed

[brave lagoon]

Bullying in my outlaw channel???

[civic meadow]

World is healing

[mighty pivot]

it's bullying season, in one month it will be being helpful season

https://tenor.com/view/duck-season-rabbit-season-gif-13823200

[copper radish]

Bring back bullying 2026?

[mighty pivot]

don't call the bully hunters

[keen belfry]

guys can we go back to talking about

how boring this outlaw is

please?

[copper radish]

But it’s fun

[brave lagoon]

Doomposting is my specialty

[keen belfry]

and anyone who tells me its fun tell me the same thing when youve played it for a few weeks on live

[copper radish]

But I’ve been playing combat rogue for 20 years I’m not bored yet

[fluid iron]

they could just lie to you

[brave lagoon]

Nobody lies on the internet

[fluid iron]

i really love outlaw

[covert kestrel]

if i wanted to efficiently build and spend i would just use a budgeting app

[fresh acorn]

its less fun than 2 weeks ago for sure, but I wouldnt say Im falling asleep playing it

[keen belfry]

y lie to me

[fluid iron]

4fun

[keen belfry]

your definiton of fun is wrong then

[vivid vessel]

your spec has been 2 buttons for years and its now gotten even dumber

[brave lagoon]

And 2 weeks ago was less fun than 1 season ago

[vivid vessel]

how do you feel panda man

[fluid iron]

idc

if im being honest

[keen belfry]

i will say sub being actual bm hunter spec is really really funny to me

[copper radish]

What’s ur definition of fun

[keen belfry]

u guys have become the noobs of rogue

LFG

[keen belfry]

Fun

[fluid iron]

your definition of wrong is wrong

ratio'd

[keen belfry]

ok u kind acooked me

[copper radish]

3 wrongs make a right

[fluid iron]

i obviously dont agree with their direction of the game, but what can you do i only raid twice a week on prog now and as long as im enjoying the people i play with i can survive a less engaging class, i barely play the game once prog is over anyway

[vivid vessel]

right

gg

[jolly geyser]

Play something else if the game aint fun

[fluid iron]

as long as the raids are fun on prog

then i dont really mind

[copper radish]

Do u have an alt class ready or is it outlaw or nothing

[vivid vessel]

5 rogues

[fluid iron]

all of my wow downtime is spent playing this shit anyway

[copper radish]

Did u make all that? How many hours so far looks like a good amount

[fluid iron]

yeh im the creator of lost ark

took me quite a while

[vivid vessel]

how did you make this interface without weak auras

[covert kestrel]

Import code?

[vivid vessel]

ye send the edit mode code bro

[fluid iron]

i could tell you zac, but id have to kill you

state secrets and what not

[vivid vessel]

whatedheellty

@mods

[copper radish]

Idk looks like a TOS issue

[fluid iron]

hi im mod

wazzup

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/mods-reaction-low-tier-god-gif-3069402631519613407

[keen belfry]

rememba outlw?

[fluid iron]

combat?

[keen belfry]

me when the ps is pressed so u press finsiher then u press ss into finisher

[fluid iron]

@vivid vessel thats my new raid hours

[vivid vessel]

Wtf are these hours bro

What kind of guild is that

[unborn cave]

Sounds like old Group Therapy

[copper radish]

Prob some older bros in there lol

Wasn’t TM the server that Nihilium was on?

[mighty pivot]

not just the hours, the days too

[frail veldt]

I mean how you gonna give 5 hours on a weekday

Unless you have no job and spouse

[vivid vessel]

well you do 3 days

instead

3 hours

or 3h30

or you just raid every night like real mens

[unkempt dew]

So no streams? @vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

well not until midnight

there is nothing to do

im not gonna do prepatch keys

[unkempt dew]

Ah i see

[latent oak]

practice the new rotation xdd

[snow viper]

Is it surprising that people meet that criteria?? Giggity😁

[keen belfry]

https://x.com/gaysodalover/status/2014279987222782090?s=46&t=7GajK7UllmeANLSOguAKEw

ryn ♡ (@gaysodalover)

me falling through the boat in the dawnbreaker and dcing

X · Jan 22, 2026, 10:12 AM

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1048716096217284653/1464342131429871676/killin_pee.gif

same same?

[jolly geyser]

https://girlcockx.com/gaysodalover/status/2014279987222782090?s=46&t=7GajK7UllmeANLSOguAKEw

ryn ♡ (@gaysodalover)

me falling through the boat in the dawnbreaker and dcing

**💬 8 🔁 114 ❤️ 1.3K 👁️ 67.2K **

▶ Play video

girlcockx · Jan 22, 2026, 10:12 AM

[vivid vessel]

how is the girlcock embed better than the x one

[copper radish]

Practice auto attacks and MG procs?

[vivid vessel]

btw

people always say

avatar have no cultural impact etc etc

but that song

that theme

palala

its kinda crazy imo

[copper radish]

Avatar aang > avatar blue boys

[vivid vessel]

goes wild no cap

[jolly geyser]

yes

[frail veldt]

Don't even know the theme

[turbid coyote]

in my Cooldownmanager sinister strike isnt shown. is says it isnt learned. Does someone have a solution?

[vivid vessel]

why show sinister strike

its not a cooldown

[turbid coyote]

i try to mimic my actionsbars.

[vivid vessel]

but its not a cd

the cooldown manager tracks cds

or bnuffs

[teal garnet]

for all the times I ran this dungeon, I never fell through, the only time I clipped into anything was going inside the boat when trying to land before last boss

was it really that bad for people?

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe dagger equipped

[vivid vessel]

what

[gaunt phoenix]

i knew dispatch was on it, didnt notice ss

[turbid coyote]

i have no daggers equipped

[frail veldt]

Is there potentially another sinister strike in cdm?

[vivid vessel]

you can ss with daggers tho

but again

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[vivid vessel]

ss inst a cd bro

[frail veldt]

It could be that youre displaying HO

And you don't have HO learned

[turbid coyote]

i can even drag it into but its greyed out

[vivid vessel]

why would you have ss in your cd manager

[frail veldt]

I think that might be the tracker for ambush proc

[vivid vessel]

it only shows with audacity

[mighty pivot]

you can only have it with HO I believe

[vivid vessel]

but its still nonsensical

its not a cd

[gaunt phoenix]

okay zac

[frail veldt]

We get it bro lol

[vivid vessel]

I mean you are not tracking anything

[frail veldt]

Let the man be

[mighty pivot]

zac is the UI police

[fathom bramble]

if you want your tracker to replicate your actionbar closely like this you could try just moving an actionbar to a spot where it is easier to look at

[gaunt phoenix]

if SS is really HO then the dispatch is really dispatcher i guess?

[frail veldt]

Probably

[mighty pivot]

dispatch is coup

[gaunt phoenix]

ah

[hardy thicket]

Zac

[vivid vessel]

what

[hardy thicket]

This is what blizzard wants calm down

[vivid vessel]

i mean if you wanna int your ui whatevr

litteraly an icon that does nothign

like a picture in yhe middle of your screen that never changes

[hardy thicket]

Dont hate the player yo

[turbid coyote]

that was my initial ui. the only thinks i want to track basicly with the cdm its the duration of adrenalin rush, blade flurry and Roll the bones (buff stage and duration). on my old ui i did it with 3 weakauras but now i need arc ui or something to get those 3 buff idicators into my "fake bars"

[proven ocean]

zac

fl you

[mighty pivot]

everyone post your UI. zac needs to check if it's within the regulations

[proven ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668218401033814038/1445896194164527184/moo.webp

[vivid vessel]

bro

[inland acorn]

@vivid vessel when new ui cooks

[vivid vessel]

if someone

ask for stupid shit

idk

its my duty

you know

i like helping people hoiw is that any differnet

[teal dust]

this is what not having crackshot window does to a man

[proven ocean]

ur duty is to answer moot then?

[vivid vessel]

zeross

you saw moot got muted

for a week

[proven ocean]

rly

what did he say

[vivid vessel]

idk he was ragebaiting again

[proven ocean]

deserved

[fathom bramble]

same thing he was doing all week I think

[vivid vessel]

im missing addons that dont exist yet

[fathom bramble]

there was just a shadow reading it this time

[turbid coyote]

whatever, was just curios its in the cdm and not displayed like all the other spells

[inland acorn]

[vivid vessel]

maybe addons will be created before midnight

[pastel sierra]

can't wait to have cell back

[fathom bramble]

I just want combo points that aren't ugly

and I miss my ace WA

[pastel sierra]

so i can have good raid and party frames again

[vivid vessel]

because all the other spells are cooldowns, or very specific stuffs like procs that are displayed as cooldown for whatever reason, like dispatch is displayed cause its coup, and pistol shot cause opportunity, but they arent supposed to be there in the cooldown section in the first place really

ss is audacity if you are talented into it

so it can show

with audacity

[vivid vessel]

you know its still possiblke to do

or well why do you need a ace weak aura now tho

but i did on beta

you still have access to stuffs

enough to do that kind of things

[slim maple]

Anyone who might have the working cooldown manager import string from wowhead? currently it seems broken on the site

[vivid vessel]

i have a weak aura that does a sound whenever i get a ps proc

[fathom bramble]

I liked the little animation I put on it to make the combo points kind of fall in instead of just appear

[vivid vessel]

ah I see

[fathom bramble]

I'm not sure that exact cosmetic choice is still available

[vivid vessel]

well thats also possible tho

yes

combo points are entirely non secret

it just like

again

no one has done an addon

or will do an addon

[fathom bramble]

but it needs to only happen when the combo points are from ace

[turbid coyote]

y audacity fixed it... thats just idk

[vivid vessel]

well thats not hard tho

cause cps arent secret

so if you get more than 2cps back

its from ace

so you know

code wise i mean

[fathom bramble]

maybe it's still doable idk

[vivid vessel]

i mean it is

just no one has done it or will ever do it

[fathom bramble]

well yeah

[vivid vessel]

need a weak aura type addon that allow you to do stuffs like that easely

[fathom bramble]

I need an open ended thing like WA that lets you easily make custom things

and that may never exist again

[vivid vessel]

well there is something

but

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe let people ask things and dont call it stupid

[vivid vessel]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/watchtower

[untold wadi]

withdrawal symptoms (i am also bent)

[vivid vessel]

its kinda a start

but ye

cant do much really

the main thing about weak aura is the front end display part tho

that will never get replicated

idk

i want a weak aura version that is stripped of everything

where its just custom triggers

but its so much work already to do that

oh well

[proven ocean]

@elder phoenix

@vivid vessel ur gonna start making addons soon or

[vivid vessel]

idk

its too much work

what i want for an addon rn

like i could do it prolly

but idk

its so much work

[proven ocean]

im officially wow quitted zac

[vivid vessel]

nice

[proven ocean]

tea why

ty*

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668218401033814038/1445896194164527184/moo.webp

i'll be there for RWF tho

[gray hatch]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[proven ocean]

so whoever was here in the close ass RWF yap at the very end

be sure ur there for it

we'll send some cat riding horses and cool ass gifs

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

[frail veldt]

Make cursor do it

Use Claude opus 4.5 or some big context model

[vivid vessel]

well

ai is not that good at wow code rn

especially if you want something very clean

i tried some stuffs on beta

and while im relatively clueless about wow addons

i can see

it needs a lot of work

[quaint mauve]

have i shown you my families horses

they’re awesome

[brave lagoon]

🐴

[proven ocean]

show

[proven ocean]

nice

2 of those are cows tho

love ur horses tho

are these ur horses

@vivid vessel he's rich

?!?

[proven ocean]

ooo

black horsy

[quaint mauve]

my dads technically

[proven ocean]

me like

me like black

!

do u ride them

or

wait do they have 100% mount speed

[quaint mauve]

yeah i do

but most of them are draft horses

they pull carriages and stuff

[proven ocean]

black horses or

[quaint mauve]

yeah

[proven ocean]

i feel like they're the coolest to ride

[quaint mauve]

theyre both thoroughbreds they are a little speedy

[low glade]

what trinkets are you guys running on beta?

[copper radish]

Expensive ass horses 😂

[still matrix]

Is adrenalin rush uptime supposed to feel so poopoo now

[past falcon]

yoooo i used to have an OTT thoroughbred a few years back

[cinder relic]

It's just an energy increase now

[limpid isle]

could be a little more energy tbh but its aight

[crude flower]

Jesus this class is addicting

only problem as said before is the energy
BUt daymn i love shootin and stabbin :D

[limpid isle]

https://tenor.com/view/gun-slinger-gun-slinging-cowboy-red-dead-gif-15753058

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1365060128709283951/1446366076266086532/5251-pepe-stabby-r.gif

shootin n stabbin

rootin n tootin

[loud garden]

[glass mortar]

sorry my guy rerolled monk

[covert kestrel]

damn its annoying when you switch one talent and your bars just cant adapt

dont have the technology

[frail veldt]

hahahaha

maybe next expac

try to set more reaslistic expectations okay bud

[covert kestrel]

hopped in a heroic pug with an alt, holy shit people are so reliant on dbm lmao

[peak dock]

small question about blind and airborne irritant, it says its limited to 1 and it reduces its cd

but when i cast blind it applies in aoe

is it a bug? or is it intended?

[lime lake]

Irritant still makes it aoe it just lies

Blizzard forgor

[peak dock]

so we basically have a 25 seconds aoe interrupt

[lime lake]

For now

[celest ravine]

Just me that thinks outlaw feels really good now?

[tender wedge]

its a wee bit polarising but i like it. i also liked it before

[celest ravine]

I liked it before too but now it's more... Clean? at least in my experience

[frail veldt]

yeah same as before

but I think people are still unsure if its intentional haha

since it was removed from the tooltip

[covert kestrel]

people here either loved the intricacies of old outlaw so dont like how basic it is or hated the old version and love how simple it is

[celest ravine]

I'm a fan of both hahaha

[covert kestrel]

rare air

[tender wedge]

so it seems, but like

i'll miss my BTE spam feelgood moments

but the new version seems like it makes more sense, i don't know how to explain it

[fathom bramble]

the new version seems to have a more cohesive vision instead of a bunch of stuff thrown in a pot

crackshot rotation almost felt like an accident from a few things just kind of converging

if that makes sense

[lone spear]

it did always feel like a happy accident that turned out to be fun

[frail veldt]

Those are always the most memorable and compelling designs

Happy accidents

[fathom bramble]

yeah probably

[covert kestrel]

smash melee babbbeeeeee

[fathom bramble]

this new version is kind of a return to old outlaw

[frail veldt]

EXACTLY what I was thinking of

[fathom bramble]

but we have no borrowed power to spice things up

[frail veldt]

It's very barebones

[fathom bramble]

after these couple of expansions with no borrowed power I'm actually starting to think we need borrowed power back

it was a natural way to mix up specs each expac

instead of needing constant talent churn

[frail veldt]

They took out all the spice but didn't fix the base at all lol

[fathom bramble]

well yeah we are back to every problem that old outlaw had for better or worse

[frail veldt]

Still a hard capped uptime reliant low utility weak cooldown spec

[fathom bramble]

uptime requirement to farm cds and take advantage of our numerous temporary damage amps

0 damage agency

[covert kestrel]

that downtime talent is so egregiously bad lmao

[frail veldt]

It's so pathetic

[fathom bramble]

they should have just kept uhuh in the game and removed subterfuge

[frail veldt]

True

[fathom bramble]

subterfuge doesn't even make sense in a vanishless world

[frail veldt]

Or at least kept crackshot

[pastel sierra]

anyone got the darkened killing spree icon

[frail veldt]

I'm worried about how squishy we will be and how much it will suck to spend energy on feint

[clear tulip]

I had the sound and image pop up on my screen every crackshot proc so the dopamine of last season outlaw was unmatched

[fathom bramble]

imagine prep with old rotation

you just hold it until you get unlucky and reset

[strange kelp]

I wouldn't be opposed to this if not for every form of it has had cancerous acquisition systems

[glass mortar]

its ok they usually get it right

by s2 or so...

[unkempt dew]

I hope so

[glass mortar]

sometimes it takes till s3

[strange kelp]

Sometimes the next xpac

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[strange kelp]

Like running BGs forever for blood of the enemy

[fathom bramble]

I've always said the only problem with borrowed power was bad acquisition systems

[strange kelp]

Or the other dumb shit

And I like BG

[fathom bramble]

even tier gear which is a kind of BP has often suffered from this

[strange kelp]

Or corruption rng

[fathom bramble]

I stayed up all night and did my bote farm in 1 play session

[strange kelp]

Gaming

[fathom bramble]

it was definitely something

some kind of something

[strange kelp]

Now it would just be comp stomp

And you try to stay awake

[pastel sierra]

[lime lake]

[pastel sierra]

enhanceQOL is pretty good

if u wanna use just one addon for most UI things

[vivid vessel]

ok but

lok

how hard is that

when there is litteraly nothing going on

lol

like people keep saying

its clean and shit

bro there is nothing

of course

like what could go wrong

[pastel sierra]

[fathom bramble]

well that's certainly true

[pastel sierra]

should i swap to that for killing spree

[fathom bramble]

especially when you are just peeling back every layer to basic outlaw again

it WILL be clean at that point

like I don't think the pot version was bad or anything

[vivid vessel]

also i disagree anyway

[fathom bramble]

which I'm sure you know

[vivid vessel]

1 ace is terrible

[craggy barn]

do i try to parse m dimmy as outlaw

[vivid vessel]

ruin the whole thing up

[fathom bramble]

but it did contribute to feelings of a spec being 'clean'

[craggy barn]

is it worth it

[fathom bramble]

specs don't need to be clean

[vivid vessel]

hero talents is what ruined outlaw in tww anyway

spec would legit be so clean

if it wasnt

for trickster and fb

ruining everything

xd

[fathom bramble]

hero talents are the worst borrowed power we have seen in a while

and I know blizz wants them to be called evergreen or whatever instead

but hero talents and apex are currently filling the rolls of borrowed power

[vivid vessel]

i hope thye ever nuke them

[fathom bramble]

and imo doing it poorly

[glass mortar]

it would help if maybe

they did some real iteration on them

like 5 or 6 entire hero talents have been rebuilt from the ground up already

[vivid vessel]

wdym bro

[glass mortar]

hell i think packleader has been rebuild TWICE

[fathom bramble]

the nice part about most previous borrowed power systems was that blizzard kind of shotgunned them with several real ideas

[glass mortar]

almost from the ground up

[vivid vessel]

they finally fixed the issues we had with fatebound and trickster

[fathom bramble]

but if heor talents are a miss then they just miss

[vivid vessel]

after an entire expac

[fathom bramble]

no alternative

[glass mortar]

and we have seen so little iteration on our trees

[vivid vessel]

quick iterations !

[glass mortar]

which is crazy, do they think the themes hit or were bangers or something

of all the specs ive played we have the most boring and unthematic hero talents

kinda crazy

[past falcon]

yeah but dw we have a tumbleweed now

[glass mortar]

w/e itll be our turn one day

[vivid vessel]

still cracks me up that in the end they did exasctly what we asked

just 1 expac late

[fathom bramble]

I need a glyph to remove the tumbleweed

[craggy barn]

thats pretty fast

[fathom bramble]

immediately

[vivid vessel]

imagine if they just listened to feedback

during alpha

instead

[craggy barn]

but loktark!

its a fucking tumblewed

rolling over ur target

!

https://tenor.com/YSgj.gif

[glass mortar]

honestly i dont wanna sound unthankful they fixed lucky coin

but... it took u an entire expansion to realize this was dogshit?

[fathom bramble]

I'm not a wild west american gunslinger bro

like what

[vivid vessel]

brudha

we had that lucky coin feedback

during alpha

tww

[glass mortar]

🙂

[vivid vessel]

it took one expac

[glass mortar]

true, more then 1 expansion

[vivid vessel]

im not thankful

[glass mortar]

1.25 expansions

[vivid vessel]

they fixed it

i am not

they listened to feedback

just 1 year too late

like common

it was the same with the bte thing remember

with crackshot

[fathom bramble]

so ks gets fixed in 10.2 or something then right

[vivid vessel]

how we said it was awkard and it prolly would be better if bte reseted

and instead of just doing it

took 2 tiers for it to happen

like just do it bro

its nto that hard

[wintry solar]

But they're expansion level changes Zac

They said it themselves

Tweaking outlaw OBVIOUSLY is so much work they can only do it during dev cycles of new expansions

[craggy barn]

zac but their priorities!

if its not mage its not priority

[wintry solar]

You simply do not understand Zac

[glass mortar]

well it took 1 tier

[craggy barn]

nothing to do with amount of work

just its 0 priority

[vivid vessel]

dev cycle being 1 week of work into hybernation till next expac

[glass mortar]

be fair, who the fuk got reworks during s4

[vivid vessel]

kinda crazy im ngl

[glass mortar]

not a real season

funny how we do the not a real season in real seasons now tho

[craggy barn]

nothing is real

[wintry solar]

Yeah the biggest week of the cycle don't you know

[frail veldt]

youre def gona want to track rtb buff and loaded dice buff separately

which is awk

[normal forge]

Playing trickster makes it mandatory to pick KS. I don't see as good game design. Do we have other classes like that?

Plus, with new tier, Blade rush is also mandatory.

So, that's two points you can't switch

[fathom bramble]

there are other classes like that to varying extents

I don't think any other spec is quite as extreme as having a capstone you must take for a hero tree though

[tender wedge]

a few other classes require specific talents yeah

[fathom bramble]

a capstone that is normally a dps loss to press

[vivid vessel]

lol

actually

lok

do you not remmeber

how they brought ks back down

cause it was for trickster

i guess they just forgot about that eh

[tender wedge]

i mean at this stage it seems like KS as a capstone is designed around the hero tree rather than the other way around

[silk stirrup]

Well, easy. Just think now of the solutions to the problems we are going to be having in Last titan and suggest them now

[pastel sierra]

yeah I'm doing that

[vivid vessel]

its the first tier i didnt drop a feedback

idk

[pastel sierra]

or will be

[vivid vessel]

im burned out of it

they never listen so

[pastel sierra]

when i figure out how to put cooldown into this addon

[vivid vessel]

it makes me depressed a bit

spending so much energy into it

for 0 reason

[fathom bramble]

the effects in the new Titanforged talent tree don't get copied by BF so we gain almost nothing in aoe compared to the other 2 specs that can trigger it on all nearby enemies with Crimson tempest and shuriken storm.

[covert kestrel]

will outlaw feel good with 37%? we shall see

[gaunt phoenix]

You dont need that much but it helps make up for feint i suppose

[normal forge]

They should change our mastery , so when adding points you also increase chance of extra attack, not just the extra attack DMG, but both

[glass mortar]

lots of trees lock you into certain talents

some of them have been moved to also provide those talents tho

which imo they should

and i doubt most of them r as toxic as kspree feels

idk what possesed them to change it from "this ability at least does good damage even though it sucks to cast" to "this ability is also a dps loss to press"

i assume they were aiming for making it so fatebound doesnt want it but they just made it feel like shit ngl

so many missed marks in this outlaw

feels like we are playing a iteration 1 spec

but also we kinda are. basically all they added to it over the "design process" was prep

[lime lake]

tbf flintlocks were famously inaccurate

not surprised they missed

[glass mortar]

ok but its a melee range ability

😠

[buoyant stratus]

You underestimate just how bad my aim is

[past falcon]

ayo?

[buoyant stratus]

Hi riddict

[past falcon]

hi charr 🥰

[burnt dragon]

is blizzard fucking stupid

why cant alerts be added to buffs

[vivid vessel]

too op bud

[gaunt phoenix]

ye idk

[vivid vessel]

i will make a small addon for ps proc alert

cause i think thats something everyone wants

[gaunt phoenix]

[glass mortar]

can you voice the effect

😏

[lime lake]

[mighty pivot]

beta feature. unlucky!

[pastel sierra]

why do u wanna add alert to loaded dice or RtB

[burnt dragon]

it doesn't do it for ANY buff

and the main answer is "to know when it's about to fall off" doesn't have to be specifically that one

i can get it to tell me when a cooldown is about to come up but that's less usefull than knowing when my shit is falling off

[tender wedge]

new KS is no longer a channel right, you just hit it and keep using other abilities?

[lone spear]

false

its a channel

[tender wedge]

yeah ok thats what i thought

it's not showing as a channel on my cast bar rip

thought i was going crazy

[lone spear]

kek

[haughty wigeon]

that would be nice

[pastel sierra]

yeah the Loaded Dice should just put a glow on RtB or something

[narrow sorrel]

sooo how tf do i play this game without weak auras lol

[wide magnet]

does this feel better at max level with some gear?

i didn't get a chance to check it out on the beta..

[tender wedge]

oh ok turns out it was an entirely different bug where my cast bar randomly disappears as soon as i enter combat after i change specs

[wide magnet]

it used to flow, not feeling like that right now

[burnt dragon]

they put all the poisons on except instant?

is this game being programmed by chatGPT now

[fickle relic]

just noticed that they removed all main gauche talents. what even the point of keeping it now?

[craggy barn]

is there an addon to get rid of the group control panel

[glass mortar]

true what if blizzard was just like "outlaws mastery has been deleted"

thatd be pretty based

its clear they dont want u to have it on gear so

[frank finch]

law kinda pumping in raid

[glass mortar]

3 stats more easier gearing

[frank finch]

in beta

[fickle relic]

where can i see that?

[harsh forge]

yeah they NEED to add this

[frank finch]

i was just looking at my logs

[glass mortar]

holy fuk u beat melee

proud o u

[fickle relic]

blade rush below main gauche that's sad

[frank finch]

the finishing on 5+ cp for fb feels real nice

[fickle relic]

what's fb

[frank finch]

fatebound

[fickle relic]

glad to hear that

[peak dock]

i might sound stupid but can we use thistle tea as a potion? i mean the one you buy in order hall... is it useful out of broken shores?

[harsh forge]

it probably doesn’t work at level 80 and if it does count as battle pot its not worth it

[pastel sierra]

he beat melee cause he's playing radioactive decay build

[lime lake]

nah hes on beta so hes safe

[pastel sierra]

ohh

makes sense why he did double my dps from my very mediocre mythic pugging earlier

[cinder relic]

It's honestly decent

Rogue seems solid af

[cinder relic]

It's just been our mastery since cata so it's gonna stick around

[fickle relic]

that's unfortunate

it can deal good damage when you focus on it but other stats are simply better

[pastel sierra]

gotta say, only thing that feels kinda bad now is rolling one buff into one buff

[bright crane]

yo are ingame meters kinda buggy for anybody else?

[civic void]

Ofc it doesn't track instant, it tracks the debuff you put not the buff duration

[bright crane]

Edit Mode window is bottom right but the window is in the top left and it wont move

[burnt dragon]

gotcha

was wondering why it didn't seem to do anything

[pastel sierra]

that one u can drag normally

[bright crane]

i cant

i wont let me

[pastel sierra]

by the top bar

did u lock the window

outside of edit mode

[lime lake]

nope

thats a bug thats existed this entire time on beta

that they never fixed

it'll just randomly get stuck up there

i never found a fix

[bright crane]

rofl youre kidding

[fickle relic]

i wish instead of that garbage capstone -5 cd on between the eyes they added something for main gauche, could be like combo point generation. just anything that makes it worth investing in it

[bright crane]

thats completelyt roll

guess its back to details then

[dull ivy]

yeah details will override it with it's own placement

i was in the same boat as bel

happened once on beta

and was forever stuck

until a new build came out for beta

[pastel sierra]

i swapped back to base game meters

bc details sometimes starts throwing errors

[bright crane]

yeah but like

this thing is distracting

i guess luau errors are also distracting

fuck it no meters

we measure VIBES

[pastel sierra]

yeah

especially when u check and it's a fully native process throwing lua errors

[lime lake]

me when i just turn off lua errors and pretend everything is fine

[bright crane]

do i do that

how do i do that*

cause all my show tooltip-at-mouse addons throw errors

but i dont care

[brisk crypt]

potential hot take idk how you outlaw mains find this rework and idk if its gonna be strong or not but im kinda digging it

[pastel sierra]

i had lua errors every time i hovered over a WQ that rewards gold because of some tooltip addon

[lime lake]

should just be /console ScriptErrors 0 iirc

[bright crane]

vibes

[lime lake]

keep in mind the issue is still there its just not giving you a window when it happens

[bright crane]

i mean

what could possibly break by showing the tooltip HUD display at the cursor

should be fine

[pastel sierra]

it will also degrade your performance if it happens too often

[bright crane]

i removed elvui so at this point

its just details, dbm

should be fine

[pastel sierra]

for UI i got EnhanceQOL which almost solves everything

just need party/raid frames

whenever cell gets updated

[bright crane]

does it make tooltips show up at ur cursor

and show io

[pastel sierra]

yeah

[bright crane]

FUCK YEAH

we installing

[pastel sierra]

also no lua errors so far

[bright crane]

papa bless u

[pastel sierra]

it can also do the whole Cooldown Manager apart from buffs, all unit frames apart from Party and raid, make action bars mouseover show only...

[cinder relic]

I also liking it a lot

[bright crane]

does it have a kick tracker?

[lime lake]

i dont think thats possible at all anymore

[pastel sierra]

was gonna say, isnt that secret now

[bright crane]

oh yeah thats right

i asked that yesterday

oopsie poopsie

ok well this checked most of the qol boxes i was looking for, thanks

[scarlet drum]

Does anyone have anything that is a useful replacement for quartz addon? I just need to move my target's cast bar to a specific point on my screen.

[ancient cobalt]

i was playin on the dummy and guys it felt weirdge only gettin to 5cp and having to ss again…

[pastel sierra]

most addons that modify the target frame should offer that

[fossil mountain]

outlaw feels pretty fun. the opther two specs feel insanely boring now

[brisk crypt]

yea sub feels weird

[limpid isle]

just spend at 5 then

[ancient cobalt]

honestly i will

[tender wedge]

Assass isn’t that different really, definitely very simple, I can’t handle the new sub tho

[haughty lagoon]

How does one track Roll the Bones now? I thought there was a like a 4 bar thing to see how many you had

[fathom bramble]

it's just 1 that changes icons now

you identify it from the icon

1 dice, 1 buff. 2 dice, 2 buff. 3 dice, 3 buff. 1 angry(?) dice, 4 buff

[tender wedge]

Big Glowy gold dice

[limpid isle]

me just doing this simple is as simple does

[strange kelp]

Assa just had the obnoxious elements removed, I think it was well done overall

[tender wedge]

Yeah I agree, no complaints

[untold wadi]

anyone anecdotally feel like they have better perf without WAs

[copper radish]

My cpu lightning fast now

[untold wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-running-past-gif-9540757305797220707

[frail veldt]

Oh for sure

Not worth

[mighty pivot]

@gaunt phoenix is it me or did they hotfix some mint changes on live? (based on what I'm seeing on simc's commits)

also cold blood was proccing normally earlier but that change doesn't look like it made it on live so I don't know

[limpid isle]

only 1 weakaura I miss is my loot weakaura.

was nice

[copper radish]

Plumber add on kinda makes the loot window look like that

[limpid isle]

oh snap lemme get on it then, thanks king

[copper radish]

It’s a pretty decent add on has some other features on it too

[cinder relic]

Absolutely

[potent yacht]

went from 500apm spec to 10apm. my highest dmg was autoattack lol

what is this spec O_O

[glass mortar]

you should have better perf

this outlaw is far easier to play

if you could play cracklaw even semidecently this version is quite barebones

its not like u werent playing this

[potent yacht]

it's so boring my adhd cant handle this

[glass mortar]

u already did all this as ur filler

[potent yacht]

im actually thinking what button i should press next lolol

[cinder relic]

Try enhance

It's also not 10apm. It's still high apm

Just not, u know, 80+

[potent yacht]

I do play enhance, I will give it a shot

[stuck sparrow]

i feel enhance is the only spec remotely close in chaotic feel

[potent yacht]

also, why is rogue so damn slow now. did we get nerfed on stealth and the slow ass grappling hook doesnt help either. sigh why they keep ruining this spec i dont understand.

[tender wedge]

yeah enhance is most chaotic for sure

[stuck sparrow]

Everyone stopping playing enh after they nerfed it from s1

totemic PI reset opener go brrr

main downside is you actually have to watch your hp bar more since that spec dies

[potent yacht]

feel like a damn prot warrior when i move lol

[stuck sparrow]

may i suggest dk

if you want to be mobile

[potent yacht]

dk made up for it with the deeps at least haha

[stuck sparrow]

depends which season

actually its been good all of tww

[potent yacht]

ye it has

[stuck sparrow]

idk i just enchant speed

because you really dont need avoidance or leech on that class

[potent yacht]

if they make rogues this slow give us back acrobatic strikes xD

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

They did something but it doesn't make sense. Ravenholdt mint in live is like halfway fixed? The script is still messed up and decreasing idk

It's like they fucked up their version control and accidentally sent stuff into prepatch, since nothing else was sent over

Sub rogue got a shadow blades fix into prepatch and not in beta which is extra weird

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[mighty pivot]

surely they wouldn't have merge issues again

[gaunt phoenix]

[frail veldt]

Never

[gaunt phoenix]

ah, they since also updated their spellscript table on live (cant see that through simc)

fatebound is probably fully fixed on live

[frank finch]

o.o

[pastel pendant]

whats the average uptime on AR now in a typical mplus? like 30%? When before it was 80-90%+?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah pretty much

[strange kelp]

We don't need to mess with SS in stealth anymore since we dropped subterfuge right?

and not running HO

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

[stuck totem]

What is the BtE proc that pops up on Outlaw now?

[gaunt phoenix]

Ace Up Your Sleeve talent

if you're on beta then it's also gravedigger (apex talent)

[stuck totem]

I was wondering if that was it...does it only last 2-3 seconds?

[gaunt phoenix]

No it just resets the cooldown on bte

so there's no duration

[stuck totem]

Ooooh

[gaunt phoenix]

It's just the glow effect

[stuck totem]

It shows a proc on it like there is one

I gotcha

I wasn't sure if I needed to try and pump as much CPs into before the proc effect was gone

[gaunt phoenix]

you're not the only one, it is a bit confusing

[stuck totem]

Thank you very much for the info!

[tender wedge]

Still getting used to the proc and not being able just to hit BTE again immediately haha

[pastel pendant]

yeah its dumb how it doesnt fill ur combo points, just another thing to make the spec feel worse

[frail veldt]

Just have to pretend the proc doesn't exist haha

Playing with less awareness is more rewarding

[tender wedge]

Just stop tracking BTE entirely problem solved

[wintry solar]

When did you start playing outlaw? I ask because Wednesday is a weird time to join the server and criticize after the new outlaw dropped.

Or announced

[frail veldt]

When a large change to a spec happens it's not weird for someone to join

[wintry solar]

Sure but

[covert kestrel]

popo says youre not old enough to complain

[lime lake]

he saw the blade flurry nerf and knew it was his time

[wintry solar]

They're usually inquisitive

[frail veldt]

A lot of people play specs without being in the discord haha

[wintry solar]

I'm aware of that

[frail veldt]

So they might be a long time player who joined as a result of the overhaul

[wintry solar]

Fair

I buy that tbf

[wintry solar]

That's a good idea

[wintry solar]

Why did you think I wasn't saying that

[frail veldt]

Cuz you asked when they started playing

[wintry solar]

Interesting response then

[keen belfry]

gn

long day

[wintry solar]

Nighty night

[cinder relic]

Are you just going to keep doing this

[pastel pendant]

tww ssn3 why does it matter yeah i joined the discord becuz this class sucks now

and i want to know what people are saying

[pastel pendant]

doing what? criticizing terrible game design?

[lime lake]

[wintry solar]

That's actually funny

Joined a server because the class is bad

When usually people leave

[cinder relic]

Joining the server for a class you don't like anymore to complain about it

[frail veldt]

Maybe just tryna see if others agree

[gaunt phoenix]

free speech !

[frail veldt]

Cathartic outlet

[pastel pendant]

This is an outlaw discussion board am I not allowed to complain about how they butchered this spec?? Am I only allowed to praise it? Like what lol

[wintry solar]

You know good and well that only applies to doomers

[frail veldt]

If it did then popo you wouldn't be here

[wintry solar]

I doomed all of tww

[cinder relic]

I didn't

[frail veldt]

Eh

Idk about that

[wintry solar]

Not s3

I barely played

1 and 2 yes

And the second half of df

[frail veldt]

Not you I mean guy, he's secretly a doomer he just does it more round about

[cinder relic]

..?

[wintry solar]

Internalized doom?

[cinder relic]

I just don't play it if it's not fun

[wintry solar]

I do

[pastel pendant]

You went from 80-90%+ uptime on AR, fun fast gameplay with vanish crackshots to a generic slow paced boring builder spender spec with no fun moments. It’s slow and bad.

[frail veldt]

It's subjective

[gaunt phoenix]

No shit

[fathom bramble]

it may not be cracked anymore, but it's definitely not slow paced

[lime lake]

[fathom bramble]

unless your scale is very broken

[pastel pendant]

Dude it’s def way slower than it was especially becuz u don’t have AR up nearly as mich

It’s slower way slower

[frail veldt]

But is slower inherently worse?

[fathom bramble]

something can be slower than it was and still fast

[pastel pendant]

Yeah it’s no fun

[frail veldt]

To you

[pastel pendant]

I wanna mash my keyboard

[cinder relic]

You still do

[frail veldt]

You can mash it between globals all you want

[cinder relic]

The spec is still gcd locked

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not rocket science if someone prefers 85 apm over 67

[frail veldt]

I think if there's anything to be mad about it's all the things they didn't fix about the spec in the transition

[gaunt phoenix]

[fathom bramble]

like obviously you are allowed to not enjoy it, but 67 is still quite active for a wow spec

[gaunt phoenix]

true

it's pretty up there overall

[pastel pendant]

Grapple is slow now too, u get 1 vanish on a 2min cd unaffected by restless blades, same with feint and evasion

[fathom bramble]

I too prefer the old outlaw, but this one is still fun(to me)

[pastel pendant]

It’s a massive downgrade to what we had

[frail veldt]

Yeah those things are def problematic

[keen belfry]

6 7

[pastel pendant]

The one positive I can say is blade rush is cool

[keen belfry]

the positives of new outlaw are BR and rtb

[frail veldt]

The defensive pruning is pretty worrying for a spec that pretty much has no specialty

[gaunt phoenix]

and lucky coin is not fucking miserable

[frail veldt]

That one's very nice

[keen belfry]

yeah fatebound changes are dub

[frail veldt]

Little overdue

[fathom bramble]

true

true on both counts

[keen belfry]

(even if fatebound is completely afk)

but its an uppy from the previous poopy it was

[frail veldt]

I'd rather have a totally passive than actively bad and unfun

[keen belfry]

now its just like, piss

yeah

agree

[fathom bramble]

yeah

it's also a bit more resources so while it is passive you kind of notice if you are missing it

[keen belfry]

i think we only notice fatebound energy cause tricksters is that bad xd

[fathom bramble]

ofc

trickster should get something energy wise probably

[keen belfry]

if thats a dub for fatebound or just a fart in the wind of outlaw its up to you

[fathom bramble]

or fatebound should lose it and our base in the spec tree should go up

[frail veldt]

Or they just fix energy baseline

That'd be sick

[keen belfry]

i still think its funny that assas problem is

too much energy

[frail veldt]

How is that a problem

Do they get tired pressing too many buttons

[keen belfry]

pooling chaining is not a thought

[frail veldt]

Oh noooooo

[keen belfry]

its just what happens when u play

[fathom bramble]

it's clear that blizzard wanted some kind of meaningful pooling

[keen belfry]

i mean its valid complaint imo cause that could be fun part of the otherwrsie afk spec

[fathom bramble]

but it sounds like sin just doesn't do that

[keen belfry]

like mewo you actually just mutilate mutilate afk afk afk envenom

and if u wanna skip teh afk part to pretend to be chaining you can too

i will laugh if the energy tuning that rogue gets is assa energy nerf

[frail veldt]

Im confused they don't want to afk but they want to afk due to energy?

[keen belfry]

they want chaining/proccing your apex/pooling to be a thought

[tender wedge]

dummy test seems cooked

[keen belfry]

like, hey im out of energy, lets let envenom fall off and proc my apex energy gain

thats how it reads to me

[frail veldt]

Ah I see

[keen belfry]

but atm, base energy is so high and apex energy is so low

like the fun min max parts people theorized when they released new sub/assa

simply dont exist atm

[fathom bramble]

yeah for as much as we see complaints about law in here

I think the other 2 got it worse

[keen belfry]

i geneuinly think outlaw atm is the best rogue rework

but

winning 1st in the piss fart contest doesnt mean you arent piss fart still

i just think the other 2 specs are actual gutter tier design atm

[cinder relic]

I feel like outlaw and sin are chill

I like new sub but it is a bit empty

But the fluff that existed didn't make sub fun so I still like the boom bust of dance

[gaunt phoenix]

More updates

1. Fatebound is now totally bugfixed on pre-patch just like beta. However as far as I can tell, Trickster is still the preferred choice by ~4-5%, most likely because Ravenholdt Mint is not as good as I thought it was, Fatebound isn't totally complete without Deal Fate, and Trickster likes having easy access to 30%+ haste.

2. I added some rotation optimization/minmaxes to the FAQ we have explored so far, probably more to come. Also split up the whole faq so it's not one giant page anymore

[cinder relic]

Nice

[keen belfry]

How much is fatebound ahead at 90

[gaunt phoenix]

3% or so st

but also fatebound is way less variance

at full 8 target i was seeing fatebound a little further ahead than that

[wintry solar]

What about aoe at 90

[gaunt phoenix]

fatebound by 4% ish

With 24% haste

[wintry solar]

Interesting

[olive spire]

so if i don't have a lot of haste gear on prepatch should i sim fatebound cause it might be better?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah but sims are slightly off until I fix it within the next day

[olive spire]

gotcha ty

[nocturne saddle]

@gaunt phoenix @cinder relic - not sure im following Loaded Dice. I understand it guarantees an increase of your next RTB, but is it linearly? like, if you current roll 3, then ADR activates Loaded Dice, is your next RTB guaranteed to be jackpot?

[frail veldt]

solo the goat drops another bomb

[frail veldt]

rtb is not influenced by your current dice level