outlaw

[glass mortar]

[copper radish]

People with no life… someone mass reported my Vancleef character name and I had to change it…..

[cinder relic]

Okay I think I fully fixed wowhead

[jolly geyser]

the whole site

[vale warren]

do we know why servers are shutting down

[glass mortar]

to flag popos vulpera for a name change

[faint pendant]

half of the game is bugged

could be anything

[raven socket]

Some Outlaw rogu did a bit more of tank damage in raid

[glass mortar]

im sorry i didnt know it would take them this much work tho

[vale warren]

its always been like that though

[vale warren]

lmao

[faint pendant]

ye

[glass mortar]

i feel like server shutdowns r usually for pretty big gamebreaking potential bugs or issues

not always stuff we can see tho

[faint pendant]

this is why we have prepatch

[glass mortar]

it could just be something in the games data thats an issue

[copper radish]

Someone probably solo’d a mythic raid lmao

[wintry solar]

Can I finally use wowhead mobile without having a headache?

[covert kestrel]

hopefully fixing the blizzard lua errors

[wintry solar]

Yeah why do they tell me about the error like I'm a dev

Fyw me to do?

[covert kestrel]

I'm just a lad from louisiana, give me po boy

[fallen knot]

they are probably fixing the embellishment thing, make recraft work and enchanting legs work

[radiant wyvern]

FIX IT

[glass mortar]

popo refusing to fix the errors 😡

[fallen knot]

and if i'm lucky enough they aren't fixing the old tiersets still being active

[glass mortar]

popo=POOP

[jolly geyser]

go eat softshell crabs

[wintry solar]

I CANT

[raven socket]

No chance they're fixing the fatebound bugs like on the beta right ?

[wintry solar]

Shrimp?

[radiant wyvern]

Bugfixes: Popo now correctly reads as Poop

[wintry solar]

[jolly geyser]

elerk more like Jerk...gottem

[lime lake]

real

[radiant wyvern]

why would you say such a thang

[wintry solar]

Shoes on the other foot now

Smh

[glass mortar]

that was very rude to elerk wtf

he didnt mean it man

[nocturne saddle]

thx - so at 5cps you always SS before BTE to get to either 6 or 7 cps?

[wintry solar]

I can feel the conviction in the elipses

[normal forge]

servers down? wtf

[jolly geyser]

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[covert kestrel]

thats maryland

[wintry solar]

He don't know exquisite Louisianian cuisine

[lime lake]

[wintry solar]

Smh

[jolly geyser]

popo boy sammich

[covert kestrel]

red been n raice

[cinder relic]

well no

[wintry solar]

So you LIED

[cinder relic]

I just mean, I fixed all the outlaw stuff

Talents and shit shouldbe changed

[covert kestrel]

can i use wowhead mobile without getting "iphone has been corrupted" pop up new tab ads like its some sketchy porn site

[cinder relic]

Trickster is suggested everywhere

[shell fossil]

i'm being dumb

[wintry solar]

ForeverGuy? More like ForeverLied

[wintry solar]

No Guy said he fixed it but didnt

Le sigh

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[violet bison]

Howd the patch notes impact us?

[normal forge]

is KIR having CDR normally or is it like prep?

[shell fossil]

lemme look 1 sec im setting up outlaw for keys so time 2 goof

[glass mortar]

kir has cdr

[mighty pivot]

that's cool, honey. do your w****e now

[covert kestrel]

le wanke?

[shell fossil]

oh yeah it moved sorry, it is affected by restless blades

[normal forge]

ty

[wintry solar]

I literally pinged you

[mighty pivot]

???? you pinged me after I told you

[wintry solar]

Cap

Ninjarobot? More like Cantstoplyingbot

Guys we all need to just get together and stop lying

[mighty pivot]

no it's better if we keep arguing all day

[wintry solar]

It's exhausting winning all the time

[iron lion]

how are we doin. we meta boys?

[frail veldt]

mobile os problem

I have a solution but you wont like it

[normal forge]

thats a hard question

[frail veldt]

no clue yet, very subject to tuning

[normal forge]

we are as far from meta as possible

[frail veldt]

outlaw has similar limitations to tww in terms of lack of cds/uptime/target cap/low utility/low raid buffs so we will be heavily dependent on tuning

[shell fossil]

other than forgetting to reroll cause bar enjoyer the recommended build makes all the sense

[frail veldt]

we also lost some of our strengths like tankiness

[teal garnet]

Cajun tyvm pets alligator

[covert kestrel]

which is better cajun or creole

[wintry solar]

Eetin dat gatuh in duh loozyanna bah-yoo

[teal garnet]

depends on whatcha want

[still matrix]

How big is the diff between the action button rotation and like optimal play?

[normal forge]

good question

[wintry solar]

That's a trick question

[normal forge]

much closer than before i would say

[still matrix]

I saw that Whispyr put it on the assas guide so i just wondered

[covert kestrel]

assa is built for one button rotation

[wintry solar]

Balance too

[teal garnet]

Creole is soul food, Cajun is white swamp boi food

[normal forge]

i think best thing i can do is playing One buttn no CDs then

cds are already crap-ish imo

other than blade rush, i dont see much fun going prep or KIR, or KS (god forbid)

[still matrix]

Outlaw doesn't feel as gigga reactive so shouldn't be that far off what whispyr posted i'd guess

[hollow coyote]

how are you guys tracking RTB / BF buff timers?

[teal garnet]

theres onl y1 buff

4 tiers

[shell fossil]

2 in summarily dispatched 1 fth for a laugh

[still matrix]

Oh it is posted in the outlaw guide lol

[shell fossil]

kir is kinda nice but also stuff does fall over pretty quick

[teal garnet]

if it isnt 1, press kir

[fathom bramble]

one button rotations primary penalty is a longer GCD

for a mostly gcd capped spec like outlaw your damage will get absolutely destroyed

[hollow coyote]

no I meant through the UI is there an alternative to the tracked bars

[teal garnet]

the cooldown manager, or the addons to improve it, theres a couple people like

BetterCooldownManager or Centered Cooldown Manager

[covert kestrel]

arc ui allows you to reskin the buff bars/make your own too

kinda janky tho

[upper hawk]

CoolCooldownManager seems like a missed opportunity

[normal forge]

1btn , 5 tar dummy on dorn

[jolly geyser]

I just use the Luxthos UI pack he made

[zenith egret]

Hello all ! Back at it for Outlaw. Is there any guide or list of what to do to setup new UI with all the addons out ?

[lavish siren]

what does bettercooldownmanager do that senseiresource bar doesnt?
i have them both but disabled bettercdmanager didnt see what was usefull

[vagrant jacinth]

yeah, make sure to logout and go to character creation

[lavish siren]

best bet to import cdm string if u dont wanna set it up from scratch and go from there

[cinder relic]

Get sensei, which adds resource bars to cooldown manager
Get Unhalted unit frames if you want the SUF style unit frames again
get better cooldown manager if you want some big cooldown manager overhaul shit

[zenith egret]

Thank you guys !

[vivid vessel]

np

[teal garnet]

SUF u say? big

[lavish siren]

1|JZE7SwNREIWzxkJ70RwrGxshtxFsfKawEJSFkKRSiIhapFDE+Eih5lHZ7WAhaGGyScwmlYgKKkLwF1gIvq0EG9tY2Dgnab4Z9uzc2fttrn0vHxjINLKHNoKPMDGICxOFicDMoOLCm0IpCO+412ddjMH5YR2Bcw/nAc4nnD9IJ6QfMggJaXh5gqKL4jekB3IGMw2xIXOQBGSbeR5mXmviACaudWkWbjcKzyjwab2Gmh/VYW4ZJyYUqwvsePj1OiebSBIbxBbKvzBhtpsEtyRSiqsXhfdKvBHvxAdS51pvo3xrl9jh3iJRJk6JElFRxL9QO9J608GhCBFj5vGTRtlVFXdPJSutd23LNUeaWeua9apfg7Avo+pUWd++WqA3NaIOJUTp4ra8UaFdUPXprGUFhvRnsOnKNCbXVpaTi/8=

what im using for pvp/pve rn u can swap and edit things how u like once u download sensei/bcdm

[cobalt token]

hows the spec lookin without weak auras

how cancer is the 35 gazillion apm

[teal garnet]

thats the thing

it isnt 35g apm

[normal forge]

apw is much lower and the spec can be played just fine with blizzard default ui, imo, even if u wanna track unseen blade and bte buffs

[shell fossil]

mild tobasco levels of spicy

[frail veldt]

we lost around 25% apm so

[tender wedge]

Rogue has actually been one of the easiest specs to set up in default I’ve found

[shell fossil]

it's not a hard class

[frail veldt]

I didnt find that lol

[tender wedge]

Other than needing senseis for combo points

[frail veldt]

Outlaw still feels like it has a lot more things to track than most specs

[cobalt token]

i mean its still a lot

to track your combo points while all the cds that you need to practically spam

[shell fossil]

it asks for a lot of your attention for sure

[cobalt token]

and opportunity procs

[shell fossil]

but it's not as random or sketchy as it gets made out to be

[tender wedge]

Oh it does, but I could do it all in default cdm

[cobalt token]

oh 100% its a easyish spec

but it takes hella attention

[normal forge]

running 1 pts Ace is so freaking awful

[cobalt token]

since theres so much to press

so fast

[frail veldt]

Yeah you just have to be willing to settle for less visual settings/control

[tender wedge]

That’s what annoys me the most about this whole ordeal

Default is SO CLOSE to being fine but like

[frail veldt]

close but so far

[tender wedge]

Some basic no brainer thing is just missing

That other addons have been doing for 20 years

[frail veldt]

this is where im at rn but Ill probably add more features to it as I decide to struggle with the addons some more

its just so much less enjoyable/harder to actually make the changes than it was before

[tender wedge]

Yeah that too

[frail veldt]

like why does the adr "cooldown" still overlay the adr buff. I didnt decidde that setting it just decided for me

[cobalt token]

wait

i so

need that setup

lmao

[shell fossil]

hopefully some of the weakaura devs make the jump

[frail veldt]

I would share it if I could but its so hadr to share your UI now

[tender wedge]

Yeah that’s tidy as f

[shell fossil]

or work on backporting some of their stuff to the current limits

[limpid breach]

sry if i missed you saying this already but what are you using for combo points here

[cobalt token]

theres literally a import 😭

[tender wedge]

Going to yoink this for inspiration ty

[frail veldt]

not if you use addons

[cobalt token]

ah yeah true

[frail veldt]

I use something called "edit mode expanded" which gives me the ability to move them

[limpid breach]

appreciate it MUCH thanks

[frail veldt]

I like the defualt CP visuals over the addon versions so i like to just move the blizzard one

[tender wedge]

I use that too but after I de-couple them from player frame and move them they stop showing up entirely 🙃

[limpid breach]

im attempting to keep it simple rn so this is kinda ideal

for ui

[cobalt token]

wait how many addons is in that if its so hard lmao

[frail veldt]

lol yeah theres some interference caused with certain other adddons

[tired marlin]

how do we like outlaw

[cobalt token]

it looks so vanilla

[frail veldt]

its like 5 total

[cobalt token]

did NOT expect 5

for that

[frail veldt]

yeah I like the "default" look

[cobalt token]

same

the default is nice

[frail veldt]

its like what I WOULD do if blizz made a good edit mode haha

[cobalt token]

tho id 100% put the raid frames over the vanilla frames

[normal forge]

no addon, no more need to update stuff, no more memory consumption right, i hope so

[craggy barn]

[frail veldt]

yeah I might end up switching to a unit frame addon for that

[craggy barn]

thers so many lua errors rn

[frail veldt]

but for now im just sticking with this

HAHA there is

[craggy barn]

and some memory leakage

some of the lua errors are base blizzard too

game after a MAJOR API overhaul is

[tender wedge]

Are you tracking anything with buff bars too or just using the icon swipe

For utility stuff I mean

Evasion etc

I’m trying to avoid using those bars where I can because minimalistic and default ui bars are atrocious

[frail veldt]

I dont like bars personally

my brain has trouble estimating what portion of hte duration I have left

the "clock" of a spiral is easier for me to comprehend at a glance

[normal forge]

complete oposite for me

[frail veldt]

like I can look at the clock being 25% left and know that means I have 5s left on my 20s buff

[frail veldt]

yeah totally subjective

[normal forge]

different spokes for different folks

[frail veldt]

I know a lot of people like bars for maintenance buffs

I only use them for resources

[shell fossil]

i wouldn't mind squares if they cooled in a linear direction

with a timer

like uh...top to bottom

but the radial thing and a number throws my brain off in the same way

[frail veldt]

might be an age thing haha clocks mean time to me

so spiral == time

[fallen knot]

ok my little experiment just ended: ascendance uptime on a key: 32%, now DRE doesnt exist anymore, and asc has 2min cd

and i'm being ignored in enha channel still, i want zorthas to start streaming or something

[normal forge]

any1 running above 40% haste unbuffed?

[radiant wyvern]

too lazy to do more

[normal forge]

im running this, i dont know about using loaded dice or sleight of hand, i prefer to keep 2 pts on ace and Fth

[mighty pivot]

this man hates good rolls

[lime lake]

based

[normal forge]

true, im getting a lots of one of a kind

[covert kestrel]

no discord like RH

[normal forge]

is there any way to bound blizzard default ui CD management to a specific talent tree?

[fallen knot]

i had around 7.5minutes of uptime on ascendance on a 25 minutes dungeon

it felt fun to say the least

[frail veldt]

that would be nice

cuz yeah right now if I change talents it for sure messes with my UI a lot

[normal forge]

try the "use shared action bars" maybe

[frail veldt]

just not gona track sprint/grapple/cloak/feint/etc? lol

#fuckit

[frail veldt]

well thats just for action bars not for like the cooldown manager positioning etc

[random stirrup]

rip float

[frail veldt]

tru

[radiant wyvern]

i gotta rearrange all the util cooldowns but at some point yeah

[normal forge]

aint bars the same as CD manager? isnt they all btns you can place on ur screen?

[frail veldt]

nope

CDM is a totally different thing

[radiant wyvern]

All The Cooldowns Are Tracked In My Enormous Brain.

[frail veldt]

ATCATIMEB

[normal forge]

i see, ofc

[frail veldt]

like if I spec into hidden opportunity it wouldnt just put ambush in my cooldown manager

[tender breach]

" Pistol Shot (with Opportunity) if at 6 stacks." at 1-2 CP? or even if we are at 5 CP?

[covert kestrel]

not playing totemic? its like crackshot

[frail veldt]

well 5cp is finish condition for dispatch as fatebound right

also how do you get to 5cp in the first place with 6 opp stacks

cuz to get htere you would have had to be at 1cp with 3stacks opp

which means you should have sent PS

not SS

so you made a mistake to get to 5cp with 6 opp

[tender breach]

@frail veldt Im still on reading the theorycraft. so its not possible thnxz

[frail veldt]

ye np

first thing I ask myself when it seems like a condition isnt covered in the faq is "should I even get into this position unless I made a mistake"

[tender breach]

thnxzzz

[fallen knot]

wdym

i know about the extend lavalash shit

but i love the gamba for ascendance with s2 tierset

[covert kestrel]

The hot hand extending buff gameplay feels crackshot adjacent to me, getting resets on maelstrom etc

[fallen knot]

yea

but i found that weird interaction that gives ascendance when it shouldnt

and i love it

[covert kestrel]

So you're just playing your own lil mini game lol

[fallen knot]

exactly

you know that with stormbringer doomwinds get replaced with asc yes

[covert kestrel]

Well that's prob why ppl are ignoring you in the enh channel cause it's something most ppl can't do or don't care about

[misty bridge]

equilibrium

[keen belfry]

i hate toetmic but i havent played it since S1

[covert kestrel]

Found it more fun than SB, SB with random tempest is pretty snoozd

[keen belfry]

yeah the tempest change is cringe imo

[covert kestrel]

Wish there was a middle ground cause the pooling those was cringe too

[craggy barn]

bruh not taking sprint speed is crazy

[fallen knot]

tbh totemic now seems really fun

skill expression in which buttons you actually push vs stormbringer go brrr press whatever

[torpid bough]

Hi, how good or bad is outlaw in comparison to last patch? I feel like it doesn't do much damage or it's bugged idk

[frail veldt]

well it was extremely weak last patch(s4 tww)

tuning is all over the place right now so we have no idea where outlaw might land in S1 midnight

[thick vigil]

NICE

[quaint grail]

outlaw cooked?

[untold wadi]

yes ⠀

[craggy barn]

meh

padding cds with useless shit to make it symmetrical

[vivid vessel]

your icons are squished bro

[craggy barn]

i know

i do it to trigger u

[vivid vessel]

your ui is shit bro

how come

you do a shit ui

[craggy barn]

oh yea? wheres ur ui

[vivid vessel]

I mean

i havent done much

just spent 10 min

doing some base thing

but im not satisfied

with the addons options rn

[craggy barn]

im fucking around a lot wiht my set up still

[vivid vessel]

im thinking abnout making my own addon but its a lot of work

for something that idk

[craggy barn]

i have to do this for 78348 specs

ugh

[vivid vessel]

like to me there is an addon that is missing still

like

[mighty pivot]

icons squished just like BF got squished

[vivid vessel]

"class pack maker"

should be an addon where you add cds/buffs inside groups

then you can put the groups anywehre

and do bars aswell

[craggy barn]

cdm being spec locked fucks so much

gotta remake the same config for class abilities 3 times

[quaint grail]

fuck

[frank finch]

what u using to move around ur buffs

[vivid vessel]

i have this for now

but i hate it and

i need something

i need more

[frank finch]

yeah that looks like my ui

that aint gonna cut it

[craggy barn]

bruh

why are there 2 vanishes

same id

diff hue

[mighty pivot]

hue hue hue

[shadow trellis]

Ui for now

[hearty stump]

I kinda like watching my little BTE bullet fly at stuff

[shadow trellis]

I wish i could make it fade in and out of combat

[frail veldt]

Umm so I just heard stuns don't immune Dr?

[vivid vessel]

ye but

its kinda trash

its like

normal, /2, /3, then 1s

forever

[frail veldt]

Oh it extends it

Or does the reset timer not reset when hitting the 1s?

I mean it's better than immune dring that's for sure

[vivid vessel]

it just cant go under 1s

[zealous plinth]

What UI addon is it?

[frail veldt]

But landing a stun will still reset the Dr timer

Interesting

[vivid vessel]

nvm

its

1/16th of the duration

everytime you cut in half

till 1/16th

[vestal notch]

with a minimum of 1 sec?

or no min at all?

[vivid vessel]

no minimum

for kidnyhe its 0.5s i guess

minimum

[vestal notch]

yikes

[cinder relic]

@frail veldt #1277407121603956788

[frail veldt]

Guess I'm dropping tft hahaha

So back

[torpid bough]

I see thx, and in the prepatch worse than before too right?

[frail veldt]

Not necessarily

We gained some slight improvements to how much we can handle downtime since we aren't trying to maintain 90%+ adr uptime but the bulk of our weaknesses as a spec are still remaining so it really just comes down to how we land on the meters tuning wise

There's nothing stopping blizzard from just tuning us to be very strong

There's no way to know yet tbh

[bright crane]

Preach king

[frail veldt]

Who's our resident survival alt player?

Is Hunter looking as insane as they seem?

AOE intim stun, almost no defensive pruning, ranged without casting

And surv rotation seems still kinda interesting

[neat mist]

Boomstick fucks

[leaden sonnet]

Budget Barrage

[neat mist]

I like to think of it as Barrage without the stigma of it being Barrage

[obsidian matrix]

do we use KIR on opener regardless of the roll? or do we save until stage 2 + ?

[keen belfry]

how are you sknning the buffs?

[tender wedge]

You can use it at 2+

[glass mortar]

its trash

😠

i mean u should try it but they ruined it for me

its numerically very strong rn and on beta ig

and yes hunters got tankier. one of the few in the game that did, and they r already pretty tanky

survival especially

survival gets free 6% dr from its mastery and bm/marks always have dark ranger access (pending tuning ofc) which has the best defensive in a hero talent in the game

they had alot of their aoe stops pruned tho

they used to have like 4

now u have 2

and one is binding which is awk cause u cant knockback for it urself

[hardy vault]

I will most likely do that. Spec looks interesting even tho survival players are saying it’s got problems

[glass mortar]

its very barebones

and its going to feel pretty slow compared to law

[hardy vault]

Bro I come from sub

[glass mortar]

its cd window isnt very satisfying either

[hardy vault]

Barebones is my middle name

[glass mortar]

but again u should try it

some people rlly like it and it seems strong

it still has a very cool toolkit altho they pruned your major cd being a 40 yard dash so ur less mobile then ever

and harpoon is worse zzz

[frail veldt]

Hmm

Yeah sounds maybe worth trying

[glass mortar]

u also have way less ranged gcds now unfortunatly cause explosive and kill shot r gone

u still have eagle for prolonged downtimes but its pretty sad

[smoky lotus]

how do I get my killing spree gun sounds back 🙁

[covert kestrel]

just say "pew pew pew" out loud when you cast it

[copper radish]

what one of yall using Arc UI? any1 know where the setting is to hide CDM buffs when they arent active

[covert kestrel]

it should be like on cooldown and then you change the visibility alpha

[past falcon]

set active aura to 0

[copper radish]

thanks boys

been driving me nuts lol

got it all setup that was the last piece

[lean shadow]

Does outlaw feel any better in the beta

[lime lake]

[lone spear]

not really cuh

[frank finch]

@zac i founbd somethin u might like

wtf

@vivid vessel

drag spells and make ur own row

make icons rectangle

aint you looking for this kind of stuff

[craggy barn]

wtf is that

[frank finch]

do i pull a zac and gate keep

[craggy barn]

gate keep im not playing rog in midnight

[frank finch]

your free

nice

[craggy barn]

i wish i wasnt

i have to play tank

no one else can and that means we lose our only rog player

[lime lake]

and nothing of value was lost

[craggy barn]

real

healers can parse now

1 less dr

[hardy vault]

3.6% more healing to be done

(Not really because not every bit of damage is done by boss, but you get my point)

[frank finch]

quaziui btw

[craggy barn]

ah

how is it

[frank finch]

alot of cool stuff in there

[craggy barn]

is it more or less jank than arc

[tender wedge]

Can’t imagine more jank thank arc

[frank finch]

arc is like the super temu version i feel like

[tender wedge]

But maybe less customization idk

Been using arc so far but interested in replacing if I can, feels…fragile?

But does some stuff I haven’t seen doable elsewhere so

[brave lagoon]

Might try arc for the cdm cuz tweaksUI is* fucking up the tracked buffs

[harsh forge]

mana oils better than sharpening stones rn?

[clear tulip]

we relogging betwen bosses becuase of auto attack bug?

[tender wedge]

ArcUI has broken for me a few times, like bars not staying where I put them after logging

[harsh forge]

not playing fatebound rn

[frank finch]

yea it breaks as soon as i attack stuff

[brave lagoon]

the bars are fine, but the icons don't save their position, and end up hidden under the energy bar

[tender wedge]

Yeah rubbish like that

I don’t want to have to worry about that so would probably take something more reliable with less functionality

[brave lagoon]

how it looks with the option menu opened, and when I close the option menu, the tracked buffs become invisible if inactive, then move under the cp/energy

unhinged

gg blizz

nvm I fixed it

had to disable the addon, go back to regular tracked buff edit mode, and untick hide when inactive option

idk why it made the position tweak out, but it works

[exotic agate]

has same issue with blizz UI but then got arcUI and no issues

[frank finch]

how do we get reminders for poisons now

low key cancer

[brave lagoon]

"Missing class buff" addon 🙃

has a function for rogue poisons

it's great isn't it

[frank finch]

😮

[copper radish]

Addons more addons and more addons

[brave lagoon]

just install more addons after they wanted you to have less addons

[exotic agate]

so many new addons for midnight

this is great

[frank finch]

what a time to be alive

[brave lagoon]

this whole patch has big monkey paw curls vibes

at least I could get Opie to work-ish until an official update comes out

[exotic agate]

cd manager doesn't have instant poison as tracked buff

[frank finch]

no worries theres an addon for it

and can click on it

[exotic agate]

and another addon added to collection

[brave lagoon]

I have more addons than last week

[frank finch]

and the game still runs light years better

[brave lagoon]

idk yet, haven't done much to notice

dorn feels exactly the same

[frank finch]

[brave lagoon]

takes less time to load the game initially tho that's for sure

[cinder relic]

I uninstalled like 5 addons and I installed 2

I just had to get sensei + UUF

[harsh forge]

Does that cdr manager addon let me set sound notifcations when a buff falls off?

[brave lagoon]

tweaksUI doesn't as far as I can see

[harsh forge]

they should make it so i can set sound alerts for like 3 seconds left on rtb

[brave lagoon]

wtf the option enabled itself again

[lavish siren]

do /reload and or go back to edit mode and exit it should go back to normal

[brave lagoon]

I posted my fix earlier yeah, mix of disabling the addon and going in the default edit mode

[hallow peak]

did you find a solution to this? its driving me crazy too

[mossy compass]

Some more weird consumables with the stat squish

Whetstones from Dragonflight give more AP than current ones.

Elemental stones give a decent amount of Crit

[cobalt token]

Nothing new for rogues

3 expansions old off hands go hard

🗣️

[smoky lotus]

dragonflight raid head enchant works again too

[brave lagoon]

no way lmao

did I delete it

[smoky lotus]

you can get it back from someone at the beginning of the raid, theres a 5 seconds quest.

[mossy compass]

I saw that, kinda scared to use it because it can't be removed, don't want to risk a ban for exploiting

[craggy barn]

def not a bannable thing

[harsh forge]

mana oil gives 15 of crit and haste tho

which is like

a whole rings worth

[bright crane]

does anybody have an addon to make tooltips show up at the cursor and not in the HUD display thing

[smoky lotus]

I think its less egregious than the people wearing 632 ilvl items.. and those people wont get banned either

there's a neck enchant from previous expansions too, it does barely any damage but more than 0 and its a free enchant slot

[craggy barn]

whats dam looking like in keys for yall

[gaunt phoenix]

I think the bugfixes were just pushed to prepatch

or at least some of them

[copper radish]

🔥

Blizz working OT??? Sheesh

[craggy barn]

👀

[cinder relic]

Shut 8up

Shut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8upShut 8up

No way the one day I sit down to fix everything

it gets refixed

AHHHHHHH
\

[frank finch]

[wintry solar]

Unfixed?

[brave lagoon]

merithra doesn't show up any quest

[gaunt phoenix]

dont worry

Because mint is not as good as i thought it was

a fixed fatebound should still lose in prepatch

[frank finch]

could of swore i read a not so great mint still puts fb ahead

[gaunt phoenix]

that's for beta

[bright crane]

I’m playin it. Shits fun

[cinder relic]

Good news

[wintry solar]

Idk man

Nerfed KS lowkey blows

Well its prepatch so ig I'm just bitching just to bitch

[copper radish]

Give me back the ST global locked KS pls

I’d love to take risks again in keys 😂

[wintry solar]

I just don't want it to hit random targets

You know what?

[copper radish]

What if they did that and turned the range to like 30 yards cause the animations is guns

[wintry solar]

@mighty pivot found my new uhuh

[copper radish]

Just make it ST 30 yard range 😂

[wintry solar]

That's fine idc

Idk if it'd actually change a whole lot other than quality of life

[keen belfry]

fatebound works on live now?

[lime lake]

[gaunt phoenix]

nah auto attacks are still borked on live

weird, they changed prepatch spell data a bit, but it seems incomplete

[craggy barn]

holy

[gaunt phoenix]

huge

[frail veldt]

One step forward two steps back

[wintry solar]

Fr

[mighty pivot]

if you played your rogue in tww s3 you'd know that already buddy. Now we have other things to cry about. Like deft manoeuvers and our garbaccio capstones

[wintry solar]

At least the capstones are even

[mighty pivot]

HOW

[wintry solar]

Unfortunately they're also even with talents inside the tree

Hella monkey paw move ngl

[mighty pivot]

they aren't even at all what are you talking about

[wintry solar]

This is old news then nvm

Capstones blow

[wintry solar]

Aren't they like a few % between each other?

Except HO

[mighty pivot]

KIR and prep are about even

HO sucks

fast action is a meme

KS is only played because trickster requires it

[wintry solar]

Imma say it

[tender wedge]

Don’t say it

[wintry solar]

Even if KS were good it's not capstone material

[tender wedge]

No popo

😩

[wintry solar]

[tender wedge]

Wasn’t capstone material a single season ago so not that hot a take tbh

[wintry solar]

And you told me not to say it

You know where it goes?

Besides the trash

[mighty pivot]

yeah KS was hitting 40% harder, it was 4 rows or so higher, and people still hated it

naturally, the way to resolve that is to nerf it and make it even more expensive to grab

[wintry solar]

I had a phone call and lost my train of thought

Hate working sixk

Sick

[unborn basin]

should DFA make a return to the skill tree?

[wintry solar]

If it actually hit hard yeah

[quaint mauve]

everything sucks

https://tenor.com/view/whiplash-gif-9431479052148052111

[wintry solar]

It's just used for mobility rn

And following locks when they teleport

https://tenor.com/view/muehehehe-gif-4405977563994366182

[mighty pivot]

you after undercooking outlaw as outlaw dev

[wintry solar]

True

[copper radish]

Bring back outlaw shadow step for this

[wintry solar]

I'm just setting the stage to bring DB back

Against Guy's wishes

[copper radish]

DB should be back

[gaunt phoenix]

guys my cat is so soft ..

it's illegal

[wintry solar]

Okay but mine is softer

[unborn basin]

I need to get a cat.

[keen belfry]

show cat

my cat is goated

bewtter thamn yours!

its a non used door i promise

[mighty pivot]

DB will only return with some bs negative effect attached to it. Like finishers costing 150% extra energy during its duration

[copper radish]

Side eye queen

[brave lagoon]

we posting cats?

[mighty pivot]

your cat looks mad being photographed awang

[unborn basin]

yeah, I need inspiration to get a cat

[copper radish]

I accidentally had the flash on and blinded mine 😭

[wintry solar]

Tell me about it

[mighty pivot]

we're posting cats or catboys

[copper radish]

Is that a cow

[mighty pivot]

pet the cat's belly

[cinder relic]

no?

[gaunt phoenix]

Forbidden

[cinder relic]

can somebody actually explain why a single person even mentions DFA anymore

Like even ironically, its like one of the worst abilities ever made

[unborn basin]

right up there with cannonball barrage?

[gaunt phoenix]

It's before my time

[cinder relic]

CBB was just like bad

DFA was like KS loss of mobility meets coup charge

Like idk how a single soul wants it

It also looked fucking stupid!!

[gaunt phoenix]

Cows

[mighty pivot]

sorry you hate everything, guy

[wintry solar]

Yeah thats all I'm getting Ninja

[gaunt phoenix]

kitty

[wintry solar]

Basically cool=bad

[wintry solar]

YOU LOOK STUPID

[wintry solar]

[keen belfry]

ill get a better one rq

[gaunt phoenix]

[mighty pivot]

Cat (2)

[copper radish]

Is that a rabbit or a cat dressed up for Halloween

[gaunt phoenix]

Ninja

[brave lagoon]

Got the whole crew

[gaunt phoenix]

Who is your pfp cat

Look at those dawgs

[copper radish]

I just know ur house is never quiet

[brave lagoon]

bro do you even want me to post videos of them howling

cuz I can deliver

[copper radish]

I already hear it

[brave lagoon]

they know when we go to the dog park, they just know

[copper radish]

Void just chillin in his corner lol

[brave lagoon]

void is getting old, he's 13

[mighty pivot]

my previous cat. Had to put her down 2 years ago

[gaunt phoenix]

[keen belfry]

This is rn

[mighty pivot]

nice scarf

[keen belfry]

u guys dont get my face sorry!

[gaunt phoenix]

beard reveal

[copper radish]

The one I have is obsessed with trying to lay on my shoulders when I’m gaming. But he moves around so much it’s annoying 😭

[mighty pivot]

solo when are we getting new spec roles

[lime lake]

never

we cling to the past

as long as we can

[copper radish]

Fatebound lucky coin would be cool

[gaunt phoenix]

Oh

[copper radish]

Prep role icon? Hmmmm

[wintry solar]

I'm cool with what I got

[lime lake]

it suits you

[mighty pivot]

you got poop popo

[gaunt phoenix]

i think we should just do the 4 rtb buffs lol

[wintry solar]

That'd be funny

[keen belfry]

but only let 5% of the disc get stage 4

etc

[wintry solar]

Oh the !rtb command needs to be edited

[keen belfry]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[long barn]

Anyone have issues importing Foreverguys layout

[wintry solar]

Idk if that's been brought up uet

[mighty pivot]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[long barn]

i can paste it but i cant get the cursor to go int othe name to hit save

[wintry solar]

Well hop to it greenie

[gaunt phoenix]

[copper radish]

🪙

[mighty pivot]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[keen belfry]

!commonmistakes

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[mighty pivot]

we do live in the past

[wintry solar]

If we wait another 10ish years it'll all be relevant again

[copper radish]

Seeing as we are on classic part 3 I’d say that’s a true statement

[wintry solar]

Lol true

[copper radish]

Ready for SL classic in 10 years

[wintry solar]

Dude

[mighty pivot]

more like 3 years

[wintry solar]

What happened to that horror mode they teased

[lime lake]

thats midnight

[mighty pivot]

that's midnight

[wintry solar]

Yeah but

[low glade]

just officially subscribed to shindigg's channel

[wintry solar]

I want to know more :(

[low glade]

really like what he's about ngl

[long barn]

Anyone?

[covert kestrel]

No he's a current outlaw defender!

[covert kestrel]

Yeah it's borked

[long barn]

blast

[deft verge]

we dont use ambush in opener and just blade rush and use bte in opener? dont we want combo points before using bte?

[covert kestrel]

Adrenaline rush gives full cp

[deft verge]

ty

such weird changes, might be a dh main until audacity/ho become meta

[covert kestrel]

HO ded

[tender wedge]

Extremely well hidden opportunity (you’ll literally never find it)

[quaint mauve]

CHOCO

[quaint mauve]

yk i wasnt expecting facial hair on u

ive always seen u as a twink

[lime lake]

lmao

[wintry solar]

I'm glad someone else said it

[desert tendon]

popo = poop

[past falcon]

tbh i also thought he was a twink

[wintry solar]

3 people...

[peak dock]

Are we still playing with no ambush in the action bar? Or is it ok to ambush as opener?

[wintry solar]

No ambush at all ever

Until HO is appropriately tuned

[desert tendon]

Ambush is such a non outlaw button

never had one in my bar

[wintry solar]

I never understood this

[fathom bramble]

they specifically wanted to remove stealth/vanish from dps so I wouldn't expect vanish to come back anytime soon

more likely we just get the remaining stealth/vanish stuff removed

[wintry solar]

I'm gonna open with cheapshot like a real rogue

[peak dock]

And as finisher, coup the grace vs BtE wich one is priority? Considering i already have bte buff

[desert tendon]

tbf ambush is kinda outlawy, it's fine. But HO 😒

[keen belfry]

im not very twinky

[desert tendon]

Real rogues dont open, they stay hidden and wait for the boss to be 0.1% hp to steal the kill

[lime lake]

real pirates never take another persons property

[desert tendon]

They dont

they kill the person before taking it

so it's not nobody when they grab it

[quaint mauve]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1330253217308872827/1410640002207055935/togif.gif

[fathom bramble]

real pirates get a writ of privateering from the crown and commit acts of piracy against the spanish

[desert tendon]

always the spanish

[wintry solar]

Might be my favorite format ngl

[keen belfry]

kiss your self

[wintry solar]

We need to make a tier list of outlaw twinks

[past falcon]

please

[keen belfry]

now read the first 3 letters

[wintry solar]

I think Ninjarobot is a real certified femboy twink so he'd be a good judge

@mighty pivot how accurate is this?

[gaunt phoenix]

bte

you can have multiple bte buffs, they overlap

[wintry solar]

What's the highest sims have gotten?

[desert tendon]

2

[gaunt phoenix]

like 18

[wintry solar]

Dang that's crazy

Oh wow

I was expecting like 9 or 10

[gaunt phoenix]

18 is like 1 in 40,000 pulls kind of luck or smth

[wintry solar]

Oh it just had a God run then

That's still cool though

[gaunt phoenix]

the average stack on beta at a given moment is 3.4 or so

[bright crane]

yo does anybody have an addon that makes tooltips display at the cursor?

[deft verge]

what was the best rogue m+ spec atm?

[gaunt phoenix]

in prepatch? it shouldnt matter it's all temporary and wacky tuning

[agile quiver]

tiptac

[bright crane]

ty

it still works in pre patch?

[covert kestrel]

Unholy dk

[wintry solar]

Got nerfed. Still good tho

[deft verge]

ok i just looked it up, wow rogues have been absolute ass lmao, did midnight changes at least make any of rogue specs more fun?

[wintry solar]

Ngl it entirely depends on how old you are

Most people say no though

[grave rose]

Whats good boys?

[covert kestrel]

Do olds or youngs like rogue specs more

[wintry solar]

As of 3 days ago, olds

[covert kestrel]

Idk we had some pretty oldheads enjoying crackshot gamimg

Solo is like 43

[wintry solar]

Sure and you'll also see some newheads enjoying new rogue

Yeah he ancient

[covert kestrel]

Solo was there when the ancient texts were written

[wintry solar]

Sololdge

[prisma heron]

Is the new outlaw still fun without crackshot? My old ass had a blast with that and keeping AR up

[cinder relic]

Depends who u ask

I like it, others don't

Its very much like bfa/SL outlaw

[fathom bramble]

even with its problems(old and new) it's still fun

certainly more fun than the other 2 specs rn

[wintry solar]

Not a high bar tbh

This filler rotation is what got me into outlaw when legion dropped

[prisma heron]

So I understand vanish offensively is gone so that’s cool no? Is bte still fun and filled with happiness?

[teal garnet]

The biggest deal to me is a lot of the appeal to outlaw is the highpaced quick decision making gameplay. But With energy issues, streamlined abilities it does fall very flat now

[prisma heron]

I really just got into the pirate theme with the pistols and stuff lol

oo energy issues doesn’t sound like fun

[fathom bramble]

you unfortunately need a certain amount of haste to fix it

which means early game at max level or start of expansions will be particularly bad

[teal garnet]

im floating like 31% with haste flask, and it doesnt feel great

[fathom bramble]

vanish/stealth no longer doing anything offensive is definitely not entirely good

we lost damage agency(no more holding crack for stuff) and lost a lot of open world and delve prowess with restealths no longer really doing anything at all

for however much open world matters to you

[teal garnet]

the only thing I like about it is now I can choose when to drop aggro a little more freely

[fathom bramble]

and then of course there are fewer things to track and fewer things to mess up so it's a bit easier to manage

and vanish won't occasionally cause players to accidentally drop combat by mistake when they are too slow on it

[cinder relic]

again depends who u ask

[wintry solar]

It's not like we're losing stealth entirely so you'll still be able to skip 99% of delves

And then trickster with the tricks talent

[fathom bramble]

but we are losing the ability to open on any pack and actually have damage for it

[wintry solar]

I guess

[fathom bramble]

like it'll probably still be fine

[wintry solar]

Frankly this could've been avoided had CS become it's own button

[fathom bramble]

but resets and uhuh made delves very smooth

uhuh also could have just stuck around with subterfuge getting deleted instead

like when it comes to solo content the vanish/stealth damage loss I think will hurt more there than anywhere else

since everywhere else stuff kind of gets tuned around, but solo content tends to just be whatever it is

[limpid isle]

uhuh shouldve got reworked to work without stealth

https://tenor.com/view/gun-slinger-gun-slinging-cowboy-red-dead-gif-15753058

[prisma heron]

wait does that mean we have to manually reapply Blade Flurry manually all the time now?

[fathom bramble]

yes

[prisma heron]

oh wowwwww that’s beyond gross

[wintry solar]

Was it the reset or perma tricks on brann?

[fathom bramble]

I mean they both helped and did entirely different things

stealth resets made the delve fast

tricks just made it easier to not die

[glass mortar]

U were at ur peak damage when u were in crackshot

There r times u do as much as crackshot

6 buff proccing

Or kspree

But crackshot meant ur opener was always strong

Even with meh rng

You could go entire delves in just crackshot windows

It was so nice

Ugh we lost so much of our toolkit for solo content

Very depressing considering they are experimenting with tough open world stuff

Especially since law can't burst down elites or high hp rares

[cobalt mist]

really dont understand why people despise the stealth gameplay so much

[glass mortar]

We relied so hard on chaining evasion with cdr

[cobalt mist]

other than it being occassionally buggy

[wintry solar]

Or live long enough to kill one

[cobalt mist]

occasionally

[glass mortar]

Any big rare is commiting to a 2m fight

U survived it by rotating through stuff

Sub killed it in 1 cd set

Xd

W.e

The toe to toe rogue is the most squishy guy

Makes sense

[wintry solar]

Theres a couple reasons people generally give

[glass mortar]

Least we don't stealth anymore

[wintry solar]

I don't mind vanish but I'm a day 1 subt hater

[cobalt mist]

would you like it more if instead of vanish it worked the exact same but it was called Pirate Stance

[glass mortar]

They r cowards for not just removing our stealth attack benifit existing instead of taking vanish off rb

It's w.e crackshot is gone

No reason to think about it they rnt bringing it back

[wintry solar]

I just said I don't mind vanish

[glass mortar]

We could get vanish back on rb tho

And we absolutely should

[wintry solar]

Yeah this was dumb

[fathom bramble]

it doesn't fit the theme of outlaw (whatever that means)
It resets combat against dangerous enemies in solo content (usually, but not always a skill/planning issue)
outlaw shouldn't be about burst windows (crackshot isn't really burst when it has 40% uptime)
Outlaw isn't about stealth and shouldn't use vanish (outlaw has used vanish rotationally for nearly all of the time it has existed since legion)

take your pick

[wintry solar]

Arguably my least favorite change

[frail veldt]

It was very punishing

So some people hated it for how uptime reliant it made us

And some people secretly hated it cuz it emphasized their mistakes

Also yeah some people hated it for theme too

[cobalt mist]

i think there are def ways to make it less punishing of downtime than just outright removing it. but i guess its kinda late for that

[cinder relic]

Theres a lot of reasons to dislike it

[wintry solar]

Ideally vanish/subt if for CD specs imo

[cinder relic]

Thematic reasons, actual gameplay, how shit it was in solo play (yes you can play around it but still thats a tech barrier that most people wont even bother to learn, the fact that it feels just like a budget shadow dance where the spec is just about damage windows rather than what it is rn, just "doing the rotation properly" which is something I prefer

[cobalt mist]

was the spec ever about damage windows?

[wintry solar]

The idea of static windows in a cdr spec doesn't make sense to me personally

[wintry solar]

Not until df

[glass mortar]

its just like most things

it was shit but it was very strong

[wintry solar]

That I can think of off the top of my head

[glass mortar]

outlaw with crackshot ate elites and rares up

[fathom bramble]

definitely need a "Define damage windows" on that one

[cobalt mist]

idk if i really think stealth can count as a shadowdance-lite when subterfuge is something you have up almost more often than not

[fathom bramble]

rolling for a good buff to then deal more damage is a kidn of damage window

[glass mortar]

i think i tanked a world boss while it was relevant content for like 2 minutes straight onces

just chaining healing/evasion every 40s

[fathom bramble]

we also had vanish for damage in legion that was actually stronger than crackshot

[glass mortar]

vanish healing was so strong in solo content

its very noticable

[cinder relic]

Just like, u optimize around the vanish windows idk

theres just a certain feeling to it

[past falcon]

i liked having vanish charges way more than when we had shadow dance

but as a crackshot lover, i get both arguments

[glass mortar]

its a window u can guarentee damage in idk

it played like a cd window

i understand that

it wasnt one tho, there was quite a few other points in the rotation u were doing just as much damage as bte popping off

kspree alone hit that hard

6 buff + proccing also matched it

it was nice having damage agency for once

prep is so pathetic compared

[wintry solar]

I wish I were good at explaining things

[glass mortar]

really what it was more of a spike of then anything was cdr, it was kinda wild for RB

[fathom bramble]

basically everything except the threat of fucking up and dropping combat is a super opinion based reason at the end of the day anyway

[wintry solar]

Than

[fathom bramble]

it's not like there's a "correct" reason

[glass mortar]

anyway its w/e its like vers going away

[wintry solar]

An outlaw staple

Gone

[glass mortar]

its probably better for the game to design us not around stealth. especially if blizzard wasnt willing to fix the serious pain points because reseting shit unless ur playing pixel perfect on ur casual content is exhausting and annoying

but it was strong af in that content which is why its annoying to lose

same with losing all our vers

[wintry solar]

They also reduced the usefulness of vanish for the other specs as well

[glass mortar]

cant pretend it wasnt nice getting 20% dr for free

[cinder relic]

The issue I felt against it wasn't so much like

Vanish in legion was "Just damage"

UHUH was "the rotation" yk

[frail veldt]

It is gonna suck not having crackshot for openers when leveling

Very unfort

[glass mortar]

crackshot was unhinged for leveling

especially once they fixed subterfuge bug

[fathom bramble]

I see the distinction there

I was just answering if outlaw has ever been about damage windows before

you could also count cov skills and dreadblades probably

[wintry solar]

I was thinking that

[fathom bramble]

well 1 specific cov skill

and some SL legendaries

[frail veldt]

We did have shadow dance in the past

[gentle sky]

I hope thay fix aoe on lowlvl content it's so bad

[glass mortar]

it wasnt really a damage window until crackshot thoi

[past falcon]

speaking of shadowlands i want my kyrian steward back

[glass mortar]

before that we used it like a proc recovery tool

i understand what he means anyway crackshot was very distinct

[frail veldt]

Well it felt significant cuz of cto proc chance

[glass mortar]

you had the generic rotation, and then the crackshot window was so different feelwise

[frail veldt]

Esp in pvp dance felt significant

It was for sure your burst window

[glass mortar]

well sure pvp is always different

[cinder relic]

depends how pednatic u want to be about stuff like flag dreadblades

[frail veldt]

I liked having a damage window. I would have loved if crackshot became just an active or something and we threw out the stealth shit

[glass mortar]

coulda been a choice with ace but they wanted to make it a 2 pointer and it was too much work

they were gunna remove stealth damage window regardless i think so theyd need to make crackshot window work off something else

[wintry solar]

Nerfed ace AND made it a 2 pointer. What a fall off.

What do sims look like not taking ace at all?

[frail veldt]

1pt is still optimal

[fathom bramble]

doesn't look like ace is even that strong on a prepatch profile

[frail veldt]

Afaik

[fathom bramble]

there might be some room to push it out

[wintry solar]

In midnight*

My bad

Idk

[fathom bramble]

I don't have a midnight profile handy

[wintry solar]

Frankly I'd rather play without ace atp

Doesn't feel good idk

[cinder relic]

Do people genuinely hate 1 ace

[fathom bramble]

with apex enhancing both dispatch and bte idk if it even moves that much in value

[cinder relic]

Like

I genuinely don't feel that bad abt it

Its like a super ruthlessnes

[wintry solar]

I dislike

Not hate

[fathom bramble]

the fun of ace is setting combo points back to full to me

it's like blackrock foundry tier(I know it was 1000 years ago)

which has always sat in my memory as my favorite outlaw/combat tierset ever

this kind of halfway sort of refund just doesn't hit the same

[glass mortar]

the gameplay of ace is when your gun procs you get to double finisher

anything less then that and the gameplay is gone for me

its just normalizing ur rotation even more

now ur guarenteed to 1 builder spender instead of maybe 2 builder

if anything it makes the rotation more boring

1 pt is so ass

i get that its smooth

its not gameplay for me tho

i want to react to procs, im playing outlaw

how do we have 1 proc left

[fathom bramble]

can't even scour our midnight channel for a midnight profile because it is gone

[frail veldt]

Yeah if proccing ace still means using a builder after then ace is just ruthlessness

[glass mortar]

id even be fine with them making it so its like 1 point is just smoothing the rotation 2 points is making it a true proc u react to, but they didnt accomplish that because of how little it refunds, and they pathed it so its basically always optimal to take the least gameplay option??

[frail veldt]

Which is an objectively worse talent

[glass mortar]

its just so cringe if they did it on purpose

[wintry solar]

How much worse is 2pt ace?

[glass mortar]

a few % i believe

the thing is it barely matters

even if u take 2 ace u still need to build after

u dont finish at 5

🙂

there is no way to recover old ace

[vapid blaze]

double coup is gone right?

[glass mortar]

ur never reacting to this proc, you are guarenteed to always bte > builder

you know it ahead of time

you dont even need a sound trigger anymore

[gaunt phoenix]

gravedigger overlapping with ace was probably a mistake

[glass mortar]

🥱 ok i sleep gn

[gaunt phoenix]

if they give us full ace then it's just better than our apex talent

[frail veldt]

Yeaaaah

[glass mortar]

gravedigger should give you a unique stack of bte on top of its cd

so you can hold it