i'm dense lol
#outlaw
white wolf
gritty hamlet
not a single last row talent, peak design
modest rock
am i going crazy, or can you not track prep with the cooldown manager?
lime lake
they forgor
vagrant jacinth
anyone else unable to import a cooldown manager setup?
white wolf
Do we play around deadly pursuit or just ignore it ? how strong is it ?
I feel like "not spending CP for 4 seconds" never happens
I just read the FAQ and i'm thinking some move speed would even be better than that lol
warm raven
you don't need em, the spec is already fun
also it gets harder the better you are so it's all wins
quick ridge
they forgor
Did they also forgor instant poison?
lime lake
idk did they
heady quartz
anyone else unable to import a cooldown manager setup?
i cant either
midnight ridge
do we still play trickster on retail or fb bugs are fixed there also?
uncut ginkgo
wonder if they realize that the older enchants work on gear now with the ilvl squish
tired crow
what about trickster? isnt it good anymore?
uncut ginkgo
fb out performs it atm
tired crow
so now we are the coinflipper with more rng yay 😄
fathom bramble
do we think sinister strike having delayed combo points is a bug or a feature?
it's not in our bug list, but it is new and not in the patchnotes
and something that got fixed a couple months into legion, but is now back
old gyro
hi guys im a former sub/assa main. this season im going to give outlaw a shot. any min max or general smart things you guys have to tell me plz :)? in general i understand the specc. i just wonder when is the best time or which condition is the best to press killing spree
gloomy coral
!ban @karmic locust Spam
fathom wharf
did they add the tumbleweed to bte with pre-patch or has that been a thing before and i only just noticed?
midnight ridge
hi guys im a former sub/assa main. this season im going to give outlaw a shot. a...
tbh just press shit on cd, there is no gameplay rn
fathom wharf
wild decision
midnight ridge
how strong is ruthlessness? I'm looking at it and is seems like a good thing to change, we have decent cp generation to skip 1cp for sth else, like menacing or fast action
fathom bramble
the thing with ruthlessness is that you get a 20% refund on everything you spend so generating more just makes it scale with you
25% more CP because the cp it gives also feeds it
Recursion
midnight ridge
ok, thanks
i'm just looking for some free talent points to make spec less boring xd
green dune
am i missing something obvious.. is there a reason s&d isn't in rotation guides?
placid gorge
How outlaw after the unbloating?
dreamy otter
How outlaw after the unbloating?
we got unbloated?
cinder relic
I like it a lot
limpid isle
am i missing something obvious.. is there a reason s&d isn't in rotation guides?
snd has been passive for a while. its still a manual cast ability if you want though. but no reason for it rotational. if thats what you are referring to.
cinder relic
But it is very simple
green dune
snd has been passive for a while. its still a manual cast ability if you want t...
Thanks -- I thought that was the case but can't see cut to the chase in talents?
limpid isle
its in the spellbook
oblique trench
i still favor df s1
burnt dragon
Any way to make an audio cue for when to press RTB or is that just gone?
pure folio
Do we press BF to generate even if we are at 5cps?
vivid vessel
But you need an audio cue to press rtb?
vivid vessel
Do we press BF to generate even if we are at 5cps?
No but that doesn't happen
You get bf back up after a. Finisher usually
Do st low cp
pure folio
ah okay so its still the same as last season then where we press it at like 3cps?
mighty pivot
Any way to make an audio cue for when to press RTB or is that just gone?
prepatch has an older version of cooldown manager, but on beta you can at least set an alert (visual or audible) for when the rtb buff drops. However, because rtb is actually 4 buffs in a trench coat, the alert will always play even if you overwrite your previous rtb buff. It's not clear whether we have to wait for midnight release to get the updated cooldown manager
lunar totem
do we have a good new plater profile option?
unkempt dew
I am so afraid that blizz will destroy this spec with there buffs and nerfs
burnt dragon
But you need an audio cue to press rtb?
Just used to it after 10 years
restive obsidian
The number of times my AR has been pressed in stealth and was wasted is too much now
cinder relic
I am so afraid that blizz will destroy this spec with there buffs and nerfs
These most recent changes are a buff, even for aoe iirc
Like overall
mighty pivot
These most recent changes are a buff, even for aoe iirc
passive bf cleave got nerfed by 6-6.5% for FB. Is that made up by the 15% boost to BR and instant BF damage? They would need to be ~1/3 of the total aoe damage
cinder relic
Does a 15% buff and a menacing rush buff not equal more aoe damage than before
vivid vessel
Why do you continue
With this narrative guy
Didn't we go over it d
During S3 ptr
This is legit miss info bro
mighty pivot
Does a 15% buff and a menacing rush buff not equal more aoe damage than before
it might be closer if you include menacing but I still think it's less. For FB the damage of BF cleave went down by 24% proportionally (51% -> 39%)
I thought you were reformed zac!
vivid vessel
That's still irrelevant cause we won't be doing 30% more st than other specs
So we are not
Doing
Similar AOE
Stop spreading litteral lies
We went over this in S3 already
And that was legit a 5% bf reduction
This is
Idk
cinder relic
Holy fuck man
vivid vessel
20%+
vivid vessel
Holy fuck man
Nah bro don't holy fuck me
cinder relic
I am man
hardy vault
Wanting to finish at 6+ cp kinda feels weird, more than often I end up with exactly five and having to press a Strike for 1-2 cp 
vivid vessel
It's legit lies what you are doing
cinder relic
Can u just fucking relax
vivid vessel
I am relaxed
cinder relic
You aren't
vivid vessel
Don't lie to people
mighty pivot
was assa broken on beta? they butchered caustic too
vivid vessel
I litteraly am just explaining how it works lol?
cinder relic
was assa broken on beta? they butchered caustic too
It seems they want to nerf passive cleave
vivid vessel
How am I not relaxed
They forgot outlaw only has passive cleave
And no other way to aoe
It seems
vivid vessel
Sure bro
cinder relic
There's a reason caustic got a larger Nerf
vivid vessel
Xd
vivid vessel
Sure
silk dirge
like assass
hardy vault
Idk uh epidemic spam still going strong
silk dirge
its relative though
obvs ur never going to be THE burst spec
would you want law to become sub then
you cant have a uptime APM playstyle
vivid vessel
No but what you are saying is a bit cope
silk dirge
plus good burst in vuln
vivid vessel
Buffing that talent doesn't change anything
It's just a buff cause they want us to play that talent probably
wicked obsidian
is warcraftlogs already reliable for prepatch? Because it seems that other classes are doing ~100% more damage then outlaw at the moment...
shell fossil
idk anyone who's in the top 50 for their class/spec can surely send numbers to make up for outlaws damage profile
vivid vessel
What
shell fossil
the 21 priory i saw had a mm hunter sham and fdk all do 40-60m on the 2nd lust pull
vivid vessel
Especially now with legit 0 skill expression on the spec what
cinder relic
is warcraftlogs already reliable for prepatch? Because it seems that other class...
It is prepatch and kill timers for every boss on mythic is genuine sub 1 minute
worldly compass
Spec balance is completely fucked at the moment to be fair
fervent scroll
was assa broken on beta? they butchered caustic too
no it was ok I could time 18's with sin, not broken level like dev evo or frost mage. now idk havent tested yet
worldly compass
But I would need to be playing the game to care about spec balance
vivid vessel
What are you trying to say rn Walmart I don't get it
shell fossil
outlaw fine 
hardy vault
is warcraftlogs already reliable for prepatch? Because it seems that other class...
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XCfTbZg2tJxqAzM9?fight=8&type=damage-done I logged two keys yesterday
And while uh does crazy damage I did my best to stay close behind
hardy vault
Doesn’t Outlaw suffer from the same problem as shadow?
As in we cleave our st, so buffing ST always comes with an AoE (Link/BF) nerf
vivid vessel
I sure hope outlaw does twice the St of any other spec
vivid vessel
It's the second time they nerf bf
wintry solar
Let it ride
vivid vessel
It was already doomed the first time
cinder relic
True it's over
wicked obsidian
i mean yes sure it's prepatch an who cares, but >100k compared to ~40k-50k in ST, thats huge
shell fossil
tank damage it's fine prot paladin can hit 20-30m on the right pull with lust
cinder relic
i mean yes sure it's prepatch an who cares, but >100k compared to ~40k-50k in ST...
It's prepatch
vivid vessel
It's only alpha
It's only beta
It's only prepatch
It's only week 1
It's only 1 month into the paf h
cinder relic
Bosses are dying in 1 minute
silk dirge
i mean yes sure it's prepatch an who cares, but >100k compared to ~40k-50k in ST...
if ur seeing 100k its probably abuse
wintry solar
The first 3 are valid
vivid vessel
Sure bro
tender wedge
I'm down to go back to a world with good st again
I loved the world where I did consistently ok pack damage then cleaned up on bosses
wintry solar
Week 1 and after yeah it's over
tender wedge
Would gladly return
cinder relic
Literally a week ago ppl were saying the bugs weren't gonna get fixed by release of the actual game lol
Shit changes mang
cinder relic
I loved the world where I did consistently ok pack damage then cleaned up on bos...
Same bruv
cinder relic
Reroll then 
leaden folio
already
cinder relic
Praying for your abundance
leaden folio
but im still sad every patch note
taht i cant go back to my otp outlaw
because blizzard hate this spec
hardy vault
Idk didn’t zac play most mythic bosses and highest keys in the world on law
cinder relic
I'm happy I can go back to the spec because it's fun again 
hardy vault
Why shouldn’t you be able to go back then
vivid vessel
No I didn't
I progged as sub
Then I got carried in keys as outlaw
And we boomed cause we can't time anything cause the spec is so dogshit
shell fossil
vivid vessel
People be timing 22 HOA with 5 deaths 5 minutes under timer
shell fossil
oh heck a video
vivid vessel
We do 22 HOA 0 death we deplete on timer with a route x10 more agro
cinder relic
This is the worst outlaw has ever been tuning wise
vivid vessel
But spec balance is good
leaden folio
no he have a point
outlaw is fast and invincible
we are worried about doin no damage
vivid vessel
I play in a full phys comp and it's still dogshit lol
shell fossil
still better than a ret doing 7m overall in a 17 halls
cinder relic
Outlaw is tuned terribly yes
vivid vessel
It's never going to be the same ever again btw
Cause people are now expected to run keys with full raid buffs
And that's the new norm
For some reason
Back in sl and df
People were running outlaw in normal comps
And people expected to do damage in these comps
If we would have played these comps back then outlaw would have topped every key
Now for some reason it's the norm and we can't even be tuned to do normal damage in these comps
Good luck in LFG bud
leaden folio
i remember foreverguy saying outlaw will be play because its top dmg, not because its control king
we are not control king or top dmg anymore
unkempt dew
These most recent changes are a buff, even for aoe iirc
Pff I hope so. I don’t want to play another class or spec. 
cinder relic
i remember foreverguy saying outlaw will be play because its top dmg, not becaus...
Wdym
leaden folio
argue about outlaw is played because control king, not because the best dmg dealer
cinder relic
Yeah I mean, rogues utility toolkit doesn't shine as much as it used to
cinder relic
argue about outlaw is played because control king, not because the best dmg deal...
Yeye I memver
leaden folio
you said it was only the dmg dealer that matter
cinder relic
Truuuue
vivid vessel
I wonder how long we are keeping the bugged aoe blind
lucid stirrup
well they surely didnt help by removing aoe blind
if they actually meant to do that
leaden folio
now we have nothing
on raid, hunter doesnt want me to shroud because that broke his talent
cinder relic
Pff I hope so. I don’t want to play another class or spec. <:pepehands:757566347...
I mean unless Ur pushing high end content nothing is forcing you 
hardy vault
Well at least I don’t have to carry 2 separate gear sets anymore for playing sub and law, besides weapons and likely trinkets.
leaden folio
tank doesnt want my tricks because its bug the agro
cinder relic
I'm gonna play outlaw all of prepatch and farm
vivid vessel
No guys don't worry about it, outlaw is gonna be fine now that it's as squishy as assa In keys and cleave for 25%
wintry solar
Waaaaah
vivid vessel
At least it will be good in raid
wintry solar
Nope
vivid vessel
We have a history of that
wintry solar
Won't be good in that either
vivid vessel
Certainly doesn't help when you make the spec worse every tier
Maybe one day we see changes going into the right direction
Like when assa went from a spec that couldn't AOE with his CDs to a spec that can
hardy vault
Legitimately tho Zac. Getting rid of the cringe vanish playstyle was a good choice, no?
lucid stirrup
on a slightly related note, wasn't the whole deal of Outlaw being the Yarrr pirate spec? Why do we have tumbleweed in our kit now?
vivid vessel
Or when it went from a spec that couldn't AOE in keys cause bleed ramping was too slow to a spec that insta ramp
torn lichen
Gunslingers. Loving it.
cinder relic
I think being really mad in discord every day has worked a lot to fix the spec so hopefully we fix it
vivid vessel
Or when sub went from a spec that couldn't do prio + AOE to a spec that suddenly cleave
cinder relic
We're almost there to some fixes
cinder relic
Legitimately tho Zac. Getting rid of the cringe vanish playstyle was a good choi...
He liked it so probably not
leaden folio
we dont hit dead corpse on our 8 target cap, so we should nerf bf now
vivid vessel
Gaslighting people into thinking we are going to be fine doesn't help do
lucid stirrup
Gunslingers. Loving it.
just feels like it clashes with whatever they doing to Survival now
shell fossil
it's almost still there if you squint at it with the bullet in the sleeve mechanic
torn lichen
just feels like it clashes with whatever they doing to Survival now
Hunters are not gunslingers.
hardy vault
just feels like it clashes with whatever they doing to Survival now
Surv always gonna be a hunter because they have a pet
shell fossil
just not this season
cinder relic
It's not gaslighting to enjoy things
lucid stirrup
Yeah but we are no longer THE gun spec
vivid vessel
You told that guy earlier that it was an AOE buff
torn lichen
So rogue not the dagger class since …SV can use them?
vivid vessel
Idk how that's not liyteral gaslight
shell fossil
i don't mind vanishing but the subterfuge part only existing as your source of damage was weird
vivid vessel
Unless you legitimately don't understand yourself but I do not believe that one second
cinder relic
That's what I gathered from talking to solo earlier. Maybe I misunderstood
lucid stirrup
still doesnt really answer why they doing this kind of outlaw gunslinger now when the whole thing was supposed to be a pirate with roll the bones and stuff?
pastel pendant
Outlaw feels like dogshit now it’s so boring it’s literally just a generic builder/spender spec now
It’s just TWWs downtime rotation lol
vivid vessel
Zach with the banger takes as expected from the superior name
hardy vault
So rogue not the dagger class since …SV can use them?
I loved how daggers went from theoretically the best very early in alpha to dw being a straight up 5% dps loss for Surv in ANY scenario
wintry solar
That's literally just your alt
vivid vessel
Mad
wintry solar
Ain't fooling no one
vivid vessel
Popo where is your poop alt
shell fossil
blizz can maybe cook a way of having that same loop in some other healthy way
torn lichen
still doesnt really answer why they doing this kind of outlaw gunslinger now whe...
Things evolve? Unless you’re sub and you’re just purple.
leaden folio
outlaw will be dead spec since we have sword and not dagger like 2 other spec
cinder relic
Idk maybe I'm stupid and don't understand
wintry solar
I should make a poop alt
vivid vessel
Idk maybe I'm stupid and don't understand
Yes bro
hardy vault
Leaking the dms
shell fossil
ghoul man
cinder relic
I did
lucid stirrup
https://tenor.com/view/walton-goggins-cooper-howard-the-ghoul-fallout-fotv-gif-1...
I mean I don't mind, just felt like a few designs clashing. I actually quite like the new Killing Spree, sad it doesn't live up to the expectations tho
pure cedar
I'm making the swap to Outlaw this Season, I think Killing Spree is fun asf 
cinder relic
Keep bringing up s3
vivid vessel
You act like you don't understand lol
cinder relic
Maybe it'll make sense
pastel pendant
No high uptime on AR, no fun crack shot windows with vanish, just a generic builder spender spec that’s slow as fuck becuz u don’t have AR up nearly as much and it’s so godddamm boring wtf was blizz thinking
shell fossil
blade rush not cooling bte 
vivid vessel
Keep thinking the spec need -10% on bf every 10% aura buff
wintry solar
No high uptime on AR, no fun crack shot windows with vanish, just a generic buil...
So outlaw?
vivid vessel
Maybe one day you will get it
cinder relic
Keep thinking the spec need -10% on bf every 10% aura buff
I don't think that
torn lichen
I mean I don't mind, just felt like a few designs clashing. I actually quite lik...
let’s face it. Swashbucklers aren’t as cool as gunslingers currently.
vivid vessel
Ok guy pause one sec
Do you legitimately don't understand
The issue there is
With nerfing bf
wintry solar
let’s face it. Swashbucklers aren’t as cool as gunslingers currently.
Gunslingers are lame no cap
shell fossil
it's the largest bar in details for outlaw wym
pastel pendant
I’m not playing this dogshit spec in midnight it’s bare bones simple now
cinder relic
I’m not playing this dogshit spec in midnight it’s bare bones simple now
Okay
vivid vessel
Bare bones, more like roll the bones !
torn lichen
So what are you playing?
hardy vault
I’m not guy but isn’t this the same thing Blizz does with spriest and Psychic Link? @vivid vessel
pastel pendant
Prob fury war that’s still pretty fun
vivid vessel
I’m not guy but isn’t this the same thing Blizz does with spriest and Psychic Li...
No it's not the same at all cause priest has other AOE sources
hardy vault
Or is bf inherently different from that type of cleave
vivid vessel
Yes it is cause we only have bf
torn lichen
Fury and barebones complaint 
cinder relic
Prob fury war that’s still pretty fun
U say outlaw has nothing going on, so you are going to fury warrior
pastel pendant
If I want to play a simple and fun spec I’ll play fury war, outlaw rn is simple and just not fun lol
shell fossil
or like a buff that uncaps aoe
cinder relic
Try enhance then
shell fossil
that you have to maintain
lucid stirrup
tbf Crackshot kinda ruined the spec forever for me too, never again will I feel like I am on crack (hehe) and just going crazy, it was crazy dopamine to chain those BTEs
On the other hand, my hands genuinely hurt after pushing a few keys daily and had to take a break, I guess I am old lol
frank finch
did i miss zac crashing out over yet an other bf nerf? do i have to scroll up
shell fossil
nah high apm specs are hard on the hands
pastel pendant
Outlaw has nothing going for it, I hate how you don’t plan ur crckshots anymore and they just randomly happen and ur lucky to get more than 1 lol it’s so bad
shell fossil
unless you got trex hands or something
vivid vessel
Or is bf inherently different from that type of cleave
The spec always does the same cleave value (outlaw), no matter how much st it does it always will do x% of it's st as AOE, that's not the case for spriest
And the issue with nerfing bf, especially that much, is that, they will not allow outlaw to suddenly do 40% more st than every spec in the game, you will open wcl and it will be doing at most 5% more st than other specs right, that's how tuning works, but then your aoe now is only 25% of that st instead of 45%, do you see the issue ?
lucid stirrup
Outlaw has nothing going for it, I hate how you don’t plan ur crckshots anymore ...
doesnt randomly happen tho, the Apex can be tracked and predicted, Ace procs dont even give full refund now so it's not really BTE chain anymore
pastel pendant
Id even no what the apex does tbh
cinder relic
What I don't understand is that the spec has been competitive at lower bf cleave values
hardy vault
The spec always does the same cleave value (outlaw), no matter how much st it do...
Yeah the same problem imo that shadow always had. Can’t make them op in ST because that’d make them omega OP in AoE
cinder relic
Outlaw has like, 100% cleave and its ass
hardy vault
But I totally get that point Zac
sleek oxide
Guys I know it's a stupid question, but since I'm feeling kinda doom about the whole Rogue spec for this season (and I really wanted to main rogue only for the whole Midnight, jokes on me), what's a good alternative you are suggesting? I heard good things about SPriest, but I'm open to any suggestion at this point
vivid vessel
8 target cleave is the same as it always been, which is around 50
45 rn
And I know you don't care about keys
hardy vault
Guys I know it's a stupid question, but since I'm feeling kinda doom about the w...
Enhance, Fury, Havoc maybe frost dk
vivid vessel
But it's the only thing relevant in keys
Actual aoe
Not 2 target cleave
Which yes is a thing in raid
pastel pendant
You know how if u die and ur AR rush falls off or on CD becuz u fucked up and didn’t extend it that’s how it feels all the time now
hardy vault
Energy will get better with midnight from what I heard mate
pastel pendant
That horrible slow feeling when u don’t have AR is how it feels 70% of the time now lol
vivid vessel
Yeah the same problem imo that shadow always had. Can’t make them op in ST becau...
No cause you just nerf the AOE tool if it's too good in st tho? Just not by litteraly dividing it by 2 xd
cinder relic
The strength of outlaw in keys for years was always doing "amazing st in aoe build while also doing good aoe still"
pastel pendant
And I love how they add a talent that literally no one will play prep is so fuking godawful
vivid vessel
Guy idk what your point is
unkempt dew
I mean unless Ur pushing high end content nothing is forcing you <:Glorp:1294378...
Haha KSM is the highest thing i mostly achieve
cinder relic
And I love how they add a talent that literally no one will play prep is so fuki...
Prep is our best st option in midnight
hardy vault
And I love how they add a talent that literally no one will play prep is so fuki...
People will play it because it’s gonna be in the guides
vivid vessel
The spec always does the same cleave value (outlaw), no matter how much st it do...
I can't explain my point better than I did there
pastel pendant
No one will play it in mplus
cinder relic
Why?
pastel pendant
It goes against the core of the spec
It feels bad
And it’s not on restless blades
flat basin
someone looks very angry
vivid vessel
I mean if its numerically good we will play it
cinder relic
It's numerically good so it'll probably be played
mighty pivot
"feels bad" has little impact on being played. We played old KS too and it felt terrible
hardy vault
I’ll admit prep is a Sub cd in my opinion, but if it’s good in sims people will 100% play it
leaden folio
i'm mark of the dead enjoyer, this talent still exist ? does it feel good on midnight ?
cinder relic
i'm mark of the dead enjoyer, this talent still exist ? does it feel good on mid...
Marked for death removed awhile ago
leaden folio
cinder relic
Too hard for noobs
pastel pendant
It’s bad game design how are you supposed to use it?? Do you use AR then prep, that’s bad becuz that whole time ur sitting on AR when u would be reducing the cd of it
pastel pendant
It goes against how the spec works
fathom bramble
We just have nothing better
cinder relic
It’s bad game design how are you supposed to use it?? Do you use AR then prep, t...
You spend all your cooldowns, and then you use prep
vivid vessel
It’s bad game design how are you supposed to use it?? Do you use AR then prep, t...
Haha yes that's how you use it
pastel pendant
No high end player is using it
vivid vessel
Of course it feels bad
pastel pendant
It’s like a what 4-5 min cd
vivid vessel
The spell has been designed by an intern that has never played outlaw
Doesn't mean it's not good
pastel pendant
It’s bad dude
mighty pivot
prep is badly designed but outlaw's capstones are so bad that it's from the better ones
cinder relic
No high end player is using it
It's the highest dps option for st, again
It'll get played
pastel pendant
Not in mplus
cinder relic
Okay
mighty pivot
vivid vessel
prep is badly designed but outlaw's capstones are so bad that it's from the bett...
Also capstones compete with middle talents
We don't even play full capstones
frank finch
outlaw is highest st now?
vivid vessel
I think
lunar totem
is the prepatch guide still accurate afdter the "fix" or are we fatbound in M+ now?
vivid vessel
I think we have one more point in the middle rn
I do need to check if I'm not capping rn but I don't think I am
cinder relic
is the prepatch guide still accurate afdter the "fix" or are we fatbound in M+ n...
Use FAQ. Wowhead will be updated tomorrow night
vivid vessel
The one we had in classic?
frank finch
we arent
vivid vessel
Were bf was 10% or smth
lunar totem
Use FAQ. Wowhead will be updated tomorrow night
bro im asking since things changed. i read faq
cinder relic
What changed
gaunt phoenix
The fixes are for beta not prepatch
vivid vessel
They fixed the bugs
mighty pivot
We don't even play full capstones
well 3/5 capstones are straight up bad
sleek oxide
OP buff 1 month from release is bad news, the nerf into oblivion is coming (and it's gonna come when you can't undo it anymore)
cinder relic
Yeah bug fixes are for midnight not prepatch
lunar totem
zzz
vivid vessel
well 3/5 capstones are straight up bad
Don't call my capstones bad buddy
cinder relic
I see what Ur saying now
mighty pivot
I can't wait for them to sync the changes over to prepatch and mess up the merge
frank finch
true
vivid vessel
I require a second opinion
wintry solar
No
vivid vessel
Maybe I log in
frank finch
unlucky
cinder relic
I had no issues in raid
vivid vessel
Maybe I don't
inland acorn
You now lose 49 fps instead of 50
hardy vault
Wait crazy, how are they fixing bugs on beta but not pushing the same fixes to prepatch if it actively makes something worse in prepatch too
frank finch
yeah
cinder relic
Forge weaver, dimensius, dh boss
vivid vessel
Dh boss is 3 target
Forge cuck is 1 frame of AOE
Dimensisus is 2 frame
Gg
I have to.login I guess
shell fossil
bug fixes never get pushed or haven't been pushed yet?
shell fossil
fud
vivid vessel
That's how it works everytime
frank finch
aka in a month
tidal horizon
outlaw busted on beta
mighty pivot
prep removed for precise cuts 
gaunt phoenix
Prob will use menrush over kir
mighty pivot
placid gorge
I like it a lot
do tell
wintry solar
Is that Boykisser on my screen?
normal forge
stop nerfing BF, geezzzz
normal forge
chat gpt calculation here says 19% nerf dmg on BF overall after those patch notes, seems like a lot to me
modest nova
Hi guys, i didn't see preparation in the Cooldown manager, i'm blind ?
hardy vault
it's not there afaik
haughty wigeon
How do we like prep boys?
mighty pivot
no worries at least we can track take 'em instead
vague cape
Spooky outlaw Halloween vibes 👻
crimson scarab
Hey guys, quick question, can i find somewhere a premade UI for Outlaw with something simillar to WAs and etc?
pastel sierra
Luxthos has a starter thing for every class
But its not specifically for outlaw and its very light on addons
crimson scarab
Also if you want to import a UI under Edit Mode are you able to write under New Layout Name
For me for some reason it is not allowed 🙁
hardy vault
that means the import is faulty
wintry solar
Spooky outlaw Halloween vibes 👻
oOOOoOOoOOooO a ghoOOoOOoost
crimson scarab
even before pasting an import string I am still not allowed to write anything
wintry solar
narrow sorrel
Anyonw know how to shrink talent point window? It takes up the entire screen i cant respec lol
wintry solar
brawlers guild is a lot more fun with this outlaw
crimson scarab
in stealth we still run SS insteaad of ambush right?
wintry solar
right
quaint mauve
wintry solar
fr
I wish I could get away with my only personality trait being talking about mid food
I'll give more credit. The food is alright
oooooo they said a bad word
vapid sundial
wintry solar
do enemy nameplates not show stacks of buffs? It shows the buff is there but its not showing me stacks
I relogged, its working now
unkempt dew
We don’t use ambush anymore?
wintry solar
if youre not talented into HO
torn dew
How much or how little does the apex talents change for rotation and the fun part of outlaw?
vivid vessel
you get a free real ace proc every third bte
thats about it
to compensate for that they completly nuked ace tho so
torn dew
So it’s basically just an extra proc for bte and then back to builder and spending?
vivid vessel
yes
torn dew
Well… that sounds.. fun?
So we only really got a warrior charge to be viable for us and no longer get cd reduction or can spam bte
But at least they buffed our single target damage
vapid blaze
imagine if rogue got the dps externals instead of warrior/hunter
torn dew
Just trying to make sense of playing outlaw for this expansion 😅
wintry solar
tuning is questionable for sure
unkempt dew
without ho you werent pressing ambsuh
I ambushed the shit out of everything
granite quarry
has anyone got like a raid cleave build? not sure what points to take out where if its worth getting KIR
gaunt phoenix
you have to take dancing steel to connect to grand melee
im actually stupid and didnt realize this
so you dont really have a choice
it's either full aoe or none
And deft vs movespeed
unborn spire
What sort of avg overalls are people getting in keys? Trying to see if I'm just a shitter or if spec is just bad 😅
gaunt phoenix
30k ish? idk
like this
I'm getting skill issued by nameplates atm
can't see shit
vapid blaze
doesnt that throw up lua errors
gaunt phoenix
i need to fuck with it cause it was unhappy
vapid blaze
well i guess alot of stuff does xD
civic void
doesnt that throw up lua errors
I think I got 0 lua errors with Jundies profile yesterday
vapid blaze
mhm i guess ill go back then 😄
olive spire
is the ravendholt mint fix also on live?
gaunt phoenix
Nop
granite merlin
So did they balance stats to make verse not as be all end all?
patent mirage
idk but i feel like cold blood still bugs out
gaunt phoenix
On beta?
patent mirage
live
gaunt phoenix
It's not fixed on prepatch, only beta
patent mirage
ah i see , thanks solo
gaunt phoenix
So did they balance stats to make verse not as be all end all?
Crit is our best stat now, then haste cause energy sucks
so yeah sort of
thick vigil
So did they balance stats to make verse not as be all end all?
I think we just lost some crit
Welp nvm
granite merlin
Booo I liked being giga tanky dps 😄
vivid vessel
you are the squishiest rogue spec now
prolly one of the squishiest spec in the game in high keys
granite quarry
this grappling hook speed is big depresso
vivid vessel
:)
granite quarry
trying to convince myself not to swap assa/sub... not doing a great job kek
wintry solar
this grappling hook speed is big depresso
im already over it personally
not to say it doesnt suck ofc
brave lagoon
Don't worry we'll get back grappling speed as a 2 tier bonus in season 2 midnight probably cuz they'll run out of ideas
wintry solar
hmmm
no I think S2 will be a rtb tier
thats S3
goober
theyre gonna make grapple a builder like that torghast power
brave lagoon
Im sure they'll find a way to weave another into the rotation soon enough 
Defensive*
glass mortar
they already tried that with feint once
they settled on making it so feint is expensive enough for the new rotation that it costs you actual dps gcds 🥰
spark quarry
we happy with the changes guys?
vivid vessel
no
wintry solar
we happy with the changes guys?
eh
mighty pivot
solo bro maybe you need to bold and triple the size of the part that mentions the fixes apply only to beta
wintry solar
hes truke you know
gaunt phoenix
how's that
wintry solar
now if we can just get them to read the pins before asking
gaunt phoenix
prepatch is also missing quick fingers and clever combatant fix
gaunt phoenix
true
minor trellis
felt real good in keys
minor trellis
i hope they keep it in a state of high ST/prio
hardy vault
don't tell zac that
glass mortar
what do u think that even means
glass mortar
lol
hardy vault
zac i'm just memeing
vivid vessel
idk why i bother
hardy vault
love you
glass mortar
guys did we do low prio when we had 45% BF cleave in s2/s1 of tww
theres a reason people were so unhappy in s3
vivid vessel
we havent done good prio since df s3
glass mortar
outlaw has always been a decent prio spec
glass mortar
sure we r losing the arms race to the funnlers but it hasnt been bad
proven ocean
they decided to give funnel to every class in the game
proven ocean
and ignore rogue because historically we had funnel
and now we're one of the worst
hardy vault
it's crazy that weapon dps ranks so high rn imo
hardy vault
sub dead in the waters
proven ocean
when it was like
the best in shadowlands
by a mile
same with bfa
and legion aswell
civic meteor
from what Ive seen from prepatch and wowhead, do we not use stealth anymore outside of utility niche stuff?
wintry solar
correct
civic meteor
need to get stealth out of my muscle memory then
gaunt phoenix
i guess i should put that somewhere
wintry solar
im still pressing BTE after I hear the ace sound lol
covert kestrel
wait was shindig memeing or fr
covert kestrel
hard to tell these days
dense forge
mossy compass
im still pressing BTE after I hear the ace sound lol
Same, I think I finally broke the muscle memory on a raid reclear last night
minor trellis
<@641316998424297522> 👀
what no i genuienly think outlaw owns
prob in part because it feels over-tuned now
but anything within target cap felt sicko mode
and i like that outlaw, in exchange for suffering from target cap
has giga ST and prio dam
it seems like a fair trade off
glass mortar
usually it does
pretty much the only time it hasnt is last season that i remember
unfortunatly plenty of uncapped people also have funnel so that kinda gaps u on prio
maybe they removed some funnel from the game with the midnight changes tho we can only hope
wintry solar
yeah a lot of tuning will take place once it drops
some specs have talent placement changes as well
minor trellis
i also kinda like the tempo with KiR and loaded dice
where u only roll on loaded with KiR and u try to make it between AR windows
rewards uptime
is nice
limpid isle
where u only roll on loaded with KiR and u try to make it between AR windows
rerolling a KiR jackpot into a jackpot into another jackpot felt like a lottery ticket.
glass mortar
kir feels like a nothingburger on this outlaw compared to last season its falloff is kinda wild
wish theyd changed it when they changed RtB
gaunt phoenix
I dont mind it, KIR basically brings your 1 buff uptime down to nothing
but yeah it is kind of a consistent over time thing instead of woo damage
glass mortar
sure its like a normalizer
which is a crazy falloff from chaining 6 buff rolls
theres basically zero exciting moments with this outlaw even jackpot feels w/e
glad they managed to keep the low rolling potential while cutting the high rolling potential off tho
if energy was better with this new RtB it would be nearly impossible to low roll ig
gaunt phoenix
you can absolutely highroll
glass mortar
sure but it doesnt feel like highrolling
im talking about the gameplay
at least for me even ace procs are nearly unnoticable
unless ur looking at ur details meter the whole fight
sorry, blizzard meter
fossil lintel
I haven't played in a few months, anyone streaming new outlaw so I can decide if I want to come back?
minor trellis
shindig was earlier, you can watch the stream on youtube
be careful that guy is sketchy
fossil lintel
Oh I dislike assassination mains anyway so not watching shindig
fossil lintel
Zac when you streaming?
covert kestrel
so for kir we drop summarily dispatched in the prepatch recommended trickster?
fossil lintel
I don't even have a sub right now
covert kestrel
he played like 6 hours of outlaw
you can take the boy out of ass but you can never take the ass out of boy
vestal notch
Amen to that
minor trellis
you can take the boy out of ass but you can never take the ass out of boy
??????
thoughts zac?
wintry solar
39 days Frontier
fossil lintel
you can take the boy out of ass but you can never take the ass out of boy
My thoughts exactly
wintry solar
you can take the boy out of ass but you can never take the ass out of boy
@mighty pivot is this true?
low glade
easily
mighty pivot
<@205708819458818049> is this true?
no
low glade
was watching his stream last night
guy's chirps are actually so funny
total PICK ME vibes
love him
low glade
bro is under contract to say such things
covert kestrel
He wears beanie like me
yeah gotta hide that fuckass low taper fade
covert kestrel
low glade
lmao great minds fronteir
covert kestrel
i like you pig boy
mighty pivot
was it in the latest beta build that they finally added opportunity tracking as a buff instead of having to track PS's cooldown?
still no prep though. Surely because it's getting deleted...
gaunt phoenix
on prepatch you can track ps as a buff or a cooldown. buff doesnt get an alert though
mighty pivot
on prepatch you can track ps as a buff or a cooldown. buff doesnt get an alert t...
did they hotfix that? Initially it was just PS as a cd
glass mortar
surely FtH and PS are core enough to outlaw they deserve their own resource style fancy ui
and not just a random buff to track
😠
where did the wow artists go
gaunt phoenix
i don't think so, it was like that on launch
glass mortar
did they not get any of the artists to work on the new UI stuffs
glass mortar
too busy making new ASSets ig
vivid vessel
can never hold it
mighty pivot
zac wants to go back to 1fth
glass mortar
zac wants gameplay
vivid vessel
idk
vivid vessel
zac wants to go back to 1fth <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
you are basically playing 1 fth anywya
mighty pivot
it's not like you can afford to hold it for too long energywise
vivid vessel
since it doesnt work with bs anymore
mighty pivot
it doesn't work with BS but gives +1 cp no? so it's somewhere in the middle
vivid vessel
no?
on old live ps with 1 fth was filling cp with bs bro
we had bs 80-% of the time
mighty pivot
it was giving 6, and 3 without bs I think
vivid vessel
its not relevant that it gave less cp without bs
glass mortar
zaaac.......
glass mortar
dont defend 1 fth zac........
glass mortar
plz...
glass mortar
u only say that cause we had nonsense 80% uptime on 5 buffs or w/e
vivid vessel
its stricly better, more interesting and more fun
glass mortar
if we were back to the days of 50% uptime on every rtb roll u wuldnt say such things...
vivid vessel
u only say that cause we had nonsense 80% uptime on 5 buffs or w/e
we have even more uptime on bs now
so why do i care
ps legit feels terrible now
you dont get max cp
whats the point
it feels like you were playing 1 fth
on live
without bs
xd
copper radish
If only we could go back to FTH from season 1 of DF before the nerf
vivid vessel
wdym dont defend 1 fth
covert kestrel
lets get back to shitting on 2pt ace please
glass mortar
who cares ace is practically dead anyway
even with 2 points you dont recast it on proc immediatly
thats like all the gameplay of ace man...
gaunt phoenix
one thing i didnt realize is that you cannot connect to grand melee through 1 ace
you need dancing steel every time
so in raid cleave you have to take ds, or no aoe at all
unkempt dew
Am I the only one that does not have the combat numbers option?
unkempt dew
Sorry for giving it a try
vivid vessel
ye
vivid vessel
what for bro
its dogshit
details already fixes
evertgthing
like
no point even trying
frank finch
details works?
gaunt phoenix
let ppl ask questions
vivid vessel
yes?
gaunt phoenix
gaunt phoenix
no
low glade
man blizz details is so bad
gaunt phoenix
it is straight out of 2004
gaunt phoenix
vanilla addon lookin
vivid vessel
that blizzard thing
when details still exist
and fixes litteraly everything
the blizzard thing does wrong
why even bother
its like
people telling me
the plates are bad
brother
why did you even uninstall plater
your fault
??
frank finch
plater works?
vivid vessel
BRO
gaunt phoenix
i guarantee most ppl didnt know plater still retains most functionality
covert kestrel
yeah my group tried to give me shit over using plater and jundies last night instead of trying default. like I know what I want and I know blizz aint got it, why even try
frank finch
what else still works give me alist
frank finch
lmao
vivid vessel
be a normal person
low glade
JUST WA
vivid vessel
and keep using addons
low glade
vivid vessel
the same way
frank finch
ok now give me your ui pack
frank finch
ok thats all i needed to hear
vivid vessel
do people liked the way i had like
frank finch
ill be waiting king
covert kestrel
i liked it
frank finch
i didnt
vivid vessel
its so annoying to try to do it now
covert kestrel
fuck u black
vivid vessel
i think imma just
brave lagoon
I had to disable the abbreviated names plug-in in plater otherwise it was ready to play
vivid vessel
give up on it
low glade
give up on it
slow your roll pal! giving up on it is giving up on us! you wouldn't do that, right?
right?
vivid vessel
imma make an ui without shadow border for now
frank finch
its just the showdow borders who cares
vivid vessel
we see in the future
vivid vessel
its just the showdow borders who cares
I cared bnro
glass mortar
idk if blizzard new ui lets zac make the cd trackers slim enough for zac style ui
theres more then 3 vertical pixels on all of them from what i saw
random stirrup
its so annoying to try to do it now
if its even close the masses will be enjoying
vivid vessel
imma use
glass mortar
💅
glass mortar
ty babe
gaunt phoenix
this is worth more than i remember
exotic gale
is there any haste tax on outlaw? havent played since DF and want to give it some tries
vivid vessel
this is worth more than i remember
owned
glass mortar
wait the windwalker notes stated they wanted to buff its aoe and smooth out the rotation
and the changes they got were net neutral in aoe but a st buff
bro chatgpt is doing blizzards math now a day i swear
how do u miss like this
frank finch
this is worth more than i remember
damn are we back?
gilded rain
prepatch wants over 30% haste
will we go back to ~22% rule next xpac as well?
gaunt phoenix
fatebound yes
trickster probably wants more but you cant really get more, at least not in season 1
Haste on every item + flask is like 26%
maybe trickster will want that
mighty pivot
vivid vessel
xdd
I cant have
rectangles icons
on unalthed
unit frames
can i get weak aura back
already
im over it
untold wadi
keen belfry
I do think the damage meter they released should be considered malpractice
wintry solar
It's a damage meter in the most technical way, while being almost completely useless.
keen belfry
If it makes it to launch without major improvements it’s an abject failure
You can’t even see what mobs you did dmg to
past falcon
gm rogues
keen belfry
Gm big bro
astral wind
You can’t even see what mobs you did dmg to
The ones you were hitting, smh /s
buoyant stratus
Recount or blizzard damage meter?
desert tendon
Zac pooping on blizzard trying to improve the game
glass mortar
its pretty rude yea
desert tendon
Tbh inm disappointed
glass mortar
they tried their hardest (and failed) (and then pushed the failed meter live)(and probably should have been working on this long before they decided to brick addon usage to replace it with their own stuff)
and therefore zac shouldnt yell at them
desert tendon
I wish they Just forbid every 3rd party possible
But it looks like they kept some
For w/e reason
glass mortar
its weird how bland everything looks to the customization options are wildly subpar compared to before
like i think everyone expected a step down
but it feels like they didnt get the art department involved even a little?
honest sparrow
Its the same but worse is my feeling so far
glass mortar
like are all the artists busy with new expac assets? i guess they must be
and if ur goal in the long term is to remove player dependence on addon you cant use the excuse that players r just gunna reskin ur baseline stuff with new addons anyway
desert tendon
They re busy on new mounts chromas
glass mortar
there should be more appearence customizations
hoary mountain
Hey, does anyone have any good add ons they can recommend for tracking roll the bones. Mostly an alert for when it's no longer active?
vestal notch
They should have just not allowed wa to track encounter stuff or whatever they dont want wa tl track
And not remove the ui part
vestal notch
Yeah
Whats the issue with me tracking the buffs i want in the way i want
If anything the blizz base addons should have been to not overwhelm new players suddenly with having ti download 200 addons
And weakauras
desert tendon
I only used a few wa and détails, so i was not really an addon slave. But guess they deleted the only things i used
vestal notch
And instead they having cdm and details and plater built in like now, and then they can get the externals addons for extra stuff/better ui
shell fossil
my buddy who worked on skate 3 literally did literally every part of the art process from making the 2d art to rendering the whole scene out in csgo...before he got employed.
they probably have a lot of multi discipline types doing the ui stuff
honest sparrow
And instead they having cdm and details and plater built in like now, and then t...
No dynamic buffs is also criminal
shell fossil
it's designed for people with 20" monitors which is deeply cringle
vestal notch
They are very good for new players as tl nlt overwhelm then with things
But shouldnt have removed them for people who have been using them for like 20 years
Discussion is pointless tho, blizzard wont revert and theres already good addons
desert tendon
Again to me it s fine to try and delete stuff
Wish they went harder
And deleted every 3rd party
vestal notch
Ui stuff doesnt hurt anyone tho
desert tendon
Instead of keeping some random stuff. It s frustrating
vestal notch
Or bag addons
desert tendon
The really bad part from what i saw is that they have access to everything
Every line of codes
Ans they didnt even try
Like i used détails for everything but damage meter
What about pvp? Did they kept gladius or?
vestal notch
No clue, wow pvp kek
wintry solar
What about pvp? Did they kept gladius or?
No