outlaw

[proven ocean]

Thats like m0

Did u try math m+?

Becomes rly hard

That one too ez

[quaint mauve]

ye the math is like

the easiest part of this

[fervent scroll]

the legendary
llmch_vulpera

[untold wadi]

ah yess

ty lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAz-cOgu-Zc

prolly super outdated/missing KS stuff, but i think it has some tips that are still relevant

wasnt useful to someone who alr knew the spec tho p sure

[gaunt phoenix]

Mitch the goat

[zealous lantern]

hows midnight outlaw looking

[desert tendon]

actually he s not a goat

he s a vulperino

https://tenor.com/view/lahan-apothecary-diaries-aksyually-kusuriya-nerd-gif-13583466742075815075

[gaunt phoenix]

it's... fine

some ppl might dislike it being a significant regression in decision making

there's some common feedback about energy and 2-point talent awkwardness but something tells me it's not getting addressed

[desert tendon]

This something is the 10 last years of beta cycles?

[glass mortar]

they simply ran out of time after releasing us on alpha with our initial changes (and then basically changing nothing at all for the rest of the design cycle)

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

[glass mortar]

it happens, i mean look at TWW

🙂

12.1 outlaw glowup dw

[gaunt phoenix]

or they just dont agree

[glass mortar]

er wait when was it in df

12.2 outlaw glowup

[gaunt phoenix]

with our feedback

[desert tendon]

cant wait for heroic nerfs 🙂

[glass mortar]

i mean theres certain points that just doesnt even make sense

like what is prep even doing

this talent is just the most awkward, half assed way to give AR a second "charge" ive ever seen

[gaunt phoenix]

they want us to play 1 ace

[glass mortar]

while still kinda semi doing that

yea i mean if they want us to play 1 ace then this spec is definitly suffering from whoever designed it idk

i dont usually like to trash devs design too much because its always good to try new things

if u design fun talents that are much less fun at 1/2 points then make the talent tree so optimal builds will take 1/2 of those points

go back to outlaw design school or something idk

is the idea here "we want players who care less about optimizing to get to have more fun gameplay then those that do"?

what are we even doing at that point

[desert tendon]

Do they want us to play outlaw at all?

Better question

[jolly geyser]

Probably,its a spec in the game

[glass mortar]

id say its designed for people who havent played it since bfa but we've lost tools we've had since legion so

[gaunt phoenix]

yes but it's a haste mastery spec now, take it or leave it

[glass mortar]

haste mastery, 40% of your breakdown is passive, squishiest rogue spec and still cant burst

we took out all the pluses u got for ur wonky spec but at least its slower now

[desert tendon]

Mastery outlaw

back to SL

you know what s fun

they ll say people are doing poor on outlaw because of the removal of addons

[glass mortar]

if ur doing poor on new outlaw then i am impressed genuinly

there is so much less going on, and u have way longer to react to it

[jolly geyser]

shiiet havent even looked,completly lost interest in wow after I got +49 mythic done and all raids

atleast I got warrior and paladin to play if rogue is shit

[prisma vessel]

did i hear we a mastery spec now in midnight?

[glass mortar]

they buffed mastery by 150% but its mostly memes at this point nobody really knows until we have actual sims

buffing mastery by such a massive number you would hope has some impact on its value as a stat even if its still an ugly stat

[prisma vessel]

gotcha

[glass mortar]

ur breakdown on beta rn is like 30-40% passive damage sources like autos and mastery so

and thats without stacking mastery

[copper radish]

How when half the dmg profile is passive 😂

If someone doing bad they got a 5 yard range problem 😂

It’ll be more like “need acro back for us to do more dmg and stay in range”

[tranquil folio]

never underestimate just how bad the average player is

[keen belfry]

i say it every week "when build" in hopes for new changes but i also believe that we are getting no real changes and this playstyle of outlaw is the version we ar egetting for season 1 (the boring spec versio)

[keen belfry]

🙂

[copper radish]

This is exactly the outlaw we are gonna be playing week 1 lol

Tuning probably around week 2/3 then we don’t see any change till s2

[glass mortar]

i do love it when they remove a massive amount of passive tankiness and active defensives then budget my energy so im punished for using my only wall tho

[keen belfry]

imagine

[glass mortar]

ok ok this isnt midnight channel i just realized i got baited into dooming in here

no dooming

how is everyones wonderful tuesday going

[keen belfry]

proccing your only source of energy fixxing

[copper radish]

I’m gonna feel so flabby in solo shuffle without evasion on cdr

[keen belfry]

cu zu had to press feint

woooooooooooooooooooo

energy!!!!!!!!!!!!

[glass mortar]

no evasion on cdr and one vanish every 2 minutes

[dawn talon]

dude being tanky was like

[copper radish]

I’m so fucked having to press this in pvp

[dawn talon]

half the appeal of outlaw

[glass mortar]

im sure you'll be standing toe to toe with those warriors and dhs tho dw

[dawn talon]

i will miss it

[glass mortar]

😎

[copper radish]

I’m scarred lol

Gonna have to run like aoe blind or something to get them off me 🤯

[glass mortar]

outlaw pvp in midnight is the most doomer thing i could imagine

im not even considering getting back into pvp it looks like a shit show anyway

[copper radish]

It’s doing decent dmg pvping on the beta. But I’m worried about the energy spent on feints and evasion no more CDR

[random stirrup]

real

the literal only niche it had

[covert kestrel]

see you in #enhancement

if im going to be a squishy melee gcd dps then might as well get some cool spell effects out of it

[keen belfry]

enhance has my eye too, fire feels much better too

[keen belfry]

wai wym we have new blade rush so cool right>??

[covert kestrel]

big yellow circle goes off qween

[keen belfry]

i lol'd when ppl were hyped about its new animation

like sure its better than what we have

but in relation to other classes its a C tier

[glass mortar]

eh

id call it easily an A tier animation

it looks a bit silly when u use it to dash

as a pure melee animation that hits everything around u its great tho

[keen belfry]

a tier crazy

[glass mortar]

not gunna stand for BR slander in here this ability is one of the best looking melee abilities in the game now

maybe thats a low bar since blizzard does not put very much work into melee animations

but of course it isnt standing up to superthunderstormtotemicstrike or w/e the fuck enhance is casting over there

actual magical spells

[keen belfry]

maybe if ur just ranking melee abiltiies it can be A tier

maybe

my god is outlaw so bad on beta

MY GOD!

[copper radish]

Is the storm build the leading one? That one’s always fun

[frail veldt]

they want people who dont care about energy problems or 1pt talent awkwardness to play it

[desert tendon]

Nobody then

Cool

[frail veldt]

there might be more of them than us

at least thats their hope

or the whole thing backfires and wow loses its core players AND doesnt attract any new players

😉

time will tell

[desert tendon]

Imo the players Who wants visual and all have already set in Stones classes

The only way to attract people toward outlaw, or any rogue spec acrually, is very high tuning

Whatever the gameplay loop is

[glass mortar]

i mean foreverguy seems pretty excited for midnight stuff so

there is some core group of players even on the high end that this is being designed for

[desert tendon]

Guy is hyped by anything rogue

[frail veldt]

unless we all like it too much

[desert tendon]

Tbf he is a wall to the bullshit storm that can easily happen here

[glass mortar]

first of all, its silly of you to imply there has ever been anything in this game we all liked too much here in outlaw discord

i dont believe this has ever happened

😠

[frail veldt]

we def like a lot about outlaw

our complaints arent random

[glass mortar]

this is a doom only zone

[frail veldt]

haha

[desert tendon]

I m doom master

[frail veldt]

DF S3 made me an outlaw main

[desert tendon]

Even have Word records on doom in fact

[glass mortar]

the fact that this iteration of outlaw is definitly peak for me, not because its perfect or missing flaws but because ive never had more fun playing the spec

makes me very sad we will never see it truly iterated on

we got what, df s3 (s4 had no changes), and then one set of iteration in tww s1, and then no real changes

and then abandoned

i guess u could count kspree change as "changes" even tho its usage in the rotation didnt change and the new kspree is almost as bad as the old

[desert tendon]

Deleting er

Was a big hit to the gameplay

Already enough to make me mad

Sad

And bald

[glass mortar]

yes

deleting ER to replace it with supercharger which was meh, not awful but certainly more boring

now supercharger is also practically deleted

[craggy quiver]

If we had last season set outlaw would have been a banger

[desert tendon]

Oh really

[glass mortar]

it procs off adr now

which u cast 1.5 times a minute ish on beta

so u get 3 supercharged cp a minute

better use them wisely bozo

[desert tendon]

Lol

Gg

Is it still useable for snd bug?

[glass mortar]

ye

zac will always find a way

dw

[desert tendon]

Cool lmao

[glass mortar]

actually a miracle SnD survived the purge

[desert tendon]

Snd bug was such à big part of the gameplay in df

It wasnt a big number impact

But it felt good

Speciallu with the tier set

[keen belfry]

yeahhh supercharger was actually pretty gameplay altering on rtb now its daed

[desert tendon]

The only thing i disliked on gameplay was GS

[glass mortar]

it pushed enough power into rerolling to make sleight feel more interesting and open up new roll rules

[desert tendon]

But they made it ogcd

So it was fine

[glass mortar]

with the simplification of RtB it makes sense they dont want things to push u to spam roll

[keen belfry]

i will not miss GS

[glass mortar]

still feels ass tho

u barely get anything from supercharger now

[covert kestrel]

[glass mortar]

i miss it because practically all our ogcds are gone

i dont miss what it was tho

it should have been better

[desert tendon]

Should have Just been a passive through adr/ vanish

[glass mortar]

should have been a button u pressed for damage and CP gen ogcd not for a debuff

[desert tendon]

Or yea

[frail veldt]

and cost 50% less energy

my favorite version of GS was when it was used with ER to snipe cps

10/10 gameplay

[covert kestrel]

Truuuuuth

If it costed less energy and was basically a cp manipulation tool for ER only, goated

Dragonflight classic s3 gonna be cinema

[frail veldt]

I miss old ER

having that badluck protection was so huge

I dont think people realized until it was gone

how much it was propping up bad proc luck

[tight kernel]

Outlaw on dimmy on reclear trolling still?

cause like recrafting is just aids

[frail veldt]

I mean if you can still kill the boss its not trolling

[tight kernel]

True

Ty Mewo

hows the io grind going

[glass mortar]

its trolling in its probably the worst thing u could bring to the boss in the game

but u could also kill the boss with 19 people at this point so

really depends how u define trolling ig

[copper radish]

IO achieves been done since the first month of S3. Now it’s just wait for midnight time lol

[tight kernel]

youre tellin me you dont want to grind out those resil 21s

[copper radish]

Hell nah lol

[keen belfry]

whens the last time i gained io

[turbid burrow]

Hello! I have the [Tome of Otherworldly Venoms] in LEMIX for 8k bronze. How do I use it to gain the hidden appeareance?
or ypu just go on live with teh quest item?

[glass mortar]

im a little confused why u asked that in here and not the assassination section

but incase nobody answered u, u need to swap to the spec and equip the weapons then right click the item

[covert kestrel]

Outlaw new player experience

[untold wadi]

how about the bug where crackshot dispatch consumed the ER point

got used to playing with it

was so tilting tho

[frail veldt]

Yeah def annoying haha

Having to delay GS to avoid it was a pain

[quaint mauve]

bro @frail veldt we got 2 hours for 3 problems

and literally no one in the class finished

we polled it in the discord

no one finished it

[frail veldt]

Bruuuutal

[stark moss]

!tott

[ornate heath]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[stark moss]

Did the focus macro for tricks stop working at some point? been a minute

[glass mortar]

Mine still works but make sure ur wa is updated

[sharp pasture]

any beta testers here? outlaw alive in midnight or dead?

[gaunt phoenix]

#midnight-outlaw has stuff

[pastel shore]

does anyone else hate unseen blade rng?

[keen belfry]

@dawn talon help me

what am i supposed to do man

[dawn talon]

ur swain is going beast mode bro

[keen belfry]

do u kno whow often this happens on regnar

i HAVE to be the cause

[dawn talon]

yes

i play rengar man

its legit cursed

CIA sends the 4 most disgusting freaks

[keen belfry]

then my laners will go

jg gap

[dawn talon]

straight to ur lobby

[keen belfry]

i get rage baited in league

[dawn talon]

i cannot play league w chat on i will not be nice

[tight kernel]

Zac you around?

you got mdt route for 21 flood?

[old gull]

Gonna have to do a non vanish build for brawlers lol

[earnest sphinx]

Picking rengar/nida has this weird side effect of getting 4 absolute baboons in your team

I stg

[keen belfry]

ive collected a few screenshots

[earnest sphinx]

Cant win em all gangy

[dire shuttle]

question regarding gems...

[keen belfry]

@dawn talon another one my bad

[dawn talon]

10kp from ur midlaner is crazy

toplaner

xdd

[frail veldt]

Bro just go play deadlock

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-hurry-impatient-gif-22696825

[covert kestrel]

mewo im scared of deadlock can you carry me and i be your support kitten :3

[keen belfry]

I don’t wanna gap u

[frail veldt]

I just started I cant do any carrying

though I hvae been dunking but I think its cuz im still at a super lower rating

[frail veldt]

in your dreams

[covert kestrel]

we can get an outlaw 5 stack going

until guy quits on us cause we are complaining too much 😉

[torn nest]

Hi guys, does blade flurry only work in TWW or something? coz im doing old content on my alt and it doesnt seem to cleave

[lime lake]

if the initial hit kills then it wont cleave

so its basically useless in old content

go sub and prosper

[covert kestrel]

#justoutlawthings

[torn nest]

is it the same for TWW as well

[lime lake]

it doesnt really care what expansion you're in when it happens

[torn nest]

wow did not know about that rule

[lime lake]

it was changed to work like that last season

as a bandaid for an even worse bug

[torn nest]

i was thinking of switching to outlaw in midnight since they're ruining sub

[desert tendon]

Oh really

They ruining sub

How

[quaint mauve]

what rank

[frail veldt]

I literally started last week so im like seeker but I have a 65% winrate now that I main mirage so Im slowly climbing

rank doesnt seem to move very quickly

[quaint mauve]

just 2v8

easy

[sacred rune]

seems to work every time for you, showcasing how easy it is

[covert kestrel]

Well I've been following both and I think the general sentiment around current midnight sub is better than current midnight outlaw

[nova sinew]

!prepull

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[frail veldt]

yeah I think now that theyve iterated on sub a few times it might have more depth

[gaunt phoenix]

did you see that will probably try to consume opportunity at 2cp not 1cp

with stage 2 rtb

[frail veldt]

oh thats good

wait but 2rtb doesnt affect ps though

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah that's the point

[frail veldt]

is it just cuz SS is so good with 2rtb

ye makes sense

[gaunt phoenix]

you become more likely to land at 6cp with ss

[frail veldt]

im assuming unless at max stacks

[gaunt phoenix]

probably yea

[quaint mauve]

game sucks

[gaunt phoenix]

or you ss at 1cp, and it doesnt proc, and then you can just ps to full cps

[frail veldt]

ye essentially trying not to waste SS proc cps

[quaint mauve]

i think both those games my top laners shared ideologies with terrible people

[sacred rune]

i sadly have no nitro, so this must do

[quaint mauve]

[silent flint]

Quick question about M Dimensius

Does anyone know if cloak removes the debuff you get when soaking one of the Starshard orbs in phase 2 platform 2?

[proven ocean]

wtf is p2 dimensius i forgot

show pic

oh probably guy knows idk

[covert kestrel]

its the platforms like with the big void dudes

[silent flint]

Yeah p2 dimensius is the flying through space phase

Second platform is with the miniboss that drops a huge circle when he does his cast and shoots put 3 orbs that people need to soak

[proven ocean]

yea u dont need to cloak that at all

u just stand in the middle which rogues are usually assigned there

and feint

if u mean the soak being gone no

it doesnt go

soak is too little impact anyway

most thing u should worry about is ur raid dodging the frontals u guys get and the boss's frontal

thats how u survive it

and gg boss dead

well u get p3 but ye

[silent flint]

Yeeee sounds good, thanks a bunch

[proven ocean]

np

[buoyant ridge]

may be off topic ...but what's the secret to brawler's guild - gnome quintet?

[drowsy ridge]

Avoid getting hit for a moment, let the stacks reset. Also, cleave

[lunar totem]

I see Zac sprint randomly - is there any dps gain from that?

Also to share an amusing discovery - I realised you are not supposed to use ambush in KIR during burst window...lol or ever

[gaunt phoenix]

no, it's just movespeed

[latent panther]

No its actually a bug exploit

[vivid vessel]

Everytime I move

Like left or right

I press sprint

As outlaw

I can't stop it

[vale warren]

Bro sometimes I press sprint then an evoker resets the cd and I press it again cause I see it off cd

I'm addicted to pressing that shit

[untold wadi]

macro sprint to every ability as outlaw

did it in a few keys with like 90% uptime

defo can get u killed sometimes but it's fun

wasn't 100 because of downtime only

[unique valve]

Hello. Brand new member. I have rogue back in original vanilla and BC and all these years later I'm reviving it

The grappling hook movement seems so insanely fun. Do you mind if I ask how you guys find Outlaw in terms of later game viability? Obviously you can look at teir lists etc but curious on what those playing it think

[serene brook]

outlaw is fun, but also dead, ok not dead, but you will struggle a lot with everything that involve party finding. Having lower DPS than a tank on large pulls or even in solo boss - normal thing for outlaw. No AMP bursts aswell. Your place in the raid is questionable, any other rogue spec would be much more desirable.
But, its your choice anyway, midnight soon, things gonna change, and there will no be outlaw like now.

[covert kestrel]

Also just fyi they are making the grapple hook much slower and less fun in midnight

[unique valve]

ouch! thanks for warning

[unique valve]

WHAAAAT?

[signal valley]

It's the kind of changes you only noticed if you're really hooked

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-meme-my-honest-reaction-gif-7785551396336017754

[unique valve]

the ease of movement is definately one of the things I was most attached to. So if it's been hugely crippled in midnight, oof

[glass mortar]

its much slower

u still have as many grapples

well u get less cdr so slightly less but u already overcap ur grapple needs in serious pve content anyway

[upper hawk]

that's the only thing i check on wow analyzer. did i max my grapple casts

[desert tendon]

Weran

ur much slower

gottem

[dim ridge]

slower hooks :[

[copper radish]

Weslow

[hardy thicket]

do u even Outlaw if you dont press sprint on CD just for the sake of it

[signal valley]

I'd gladly take a slower hook if I could get the real acrobatic strikes back

[glass mortar]

thats a tough one tbh im not sure which id rather have

u dont realize how much u rely on fast hook until u play beta and need to start dodging boss aoes 1-2s in advance because of how slow hook is and have even more downtime then live

it sucks

blizzard when they have an oppurtunity to reduce the fun of outlaw for no real reason

[hardy thicket]

nah man its just too fast you know

gotta slow down the apm of the spec that includes hook

[vivid vessel]

@glass mortar back where outlaw belong

[glass mortar]

LOL

its ok ur almost competing with the main character of the new expac so everyone above u must just be super overtuned

[vivid vessel]

no but

dw weran

[glass mortar]

im not tuning is barely started

[vivid vessel]

eh

i think when there is changes like these

the bf nerf

its already over

[glass mortar]

idk

it is until they buff br by like 300%

and our damage is back to where it was but now more of it is just not bf

[vivid vessel]

[glass mortar]

would that be good for us?

🤷

but yea it aint good rn

what do u want me to say

😠

[vivid vessel]

i mean idk

just that the damage profile got fucked over again

and i doubt they backtrack on that

so even if its just "tuning"

its not really tuning

its like if you removed funnel from a spec

ye its just "tuning"

its just numbers

but its not

[glass mortar]

well ok

say they did buff BR and BF initial damage enough that we were doing the same sim aoe we'd do on live, ST to aoe scaling

would the profile be worse?

what would it mean

[vivid vessel]

no it wouyld be fine i guess

but that wont happen

[quaint delta]

anyone have a brawlers guild talent loadout that doesn't rely on vanish/crackshot?

[glass mortar]

i dont believe that there are any non vanish crackshot builds that come within 20% of the damage of the vanish builds

you will be substantially gimped if u try to drop it

which will probably feel rough since outlaw isnt exactly pumping on live even in the vanish builds

[quaint delta]

this is specific to BG. vanishing during the fights kick me out 90% of the time

[glass mortar]

idk what the dps checks r like tho

ive heard at least one fight has a 5m dps check

[lime lake]

ngl

i just played sub and all but 5 fights died before i pressed my second st

maybe thats the play

[glass mortar]

ye sounds about right

burst specs be like

[quaint delta]

yea...

[glass mortar]

i think im just gunna do it on my monk to avoid the vanish frustration

would rather do that then try no vanish outlaw

the spec just isnt designed for it

[quaint delta]

prepping for march

[glass mortar]

i mean if u wanna try a no stealth build ud just drop all the stealth related talents and take probably almost everything else available

move vanish charges to tea

i doubt theres much flexibility here

[quaint delta]

trying out CB and greenskins lol

gonna be awful

[glass mortar]

dont do CB

CB is useless

[copper radish]

Yeah another class 😂

[glass mortar]

take tea or ur gunna have zero energy

ur adrenaline rush uptime is going to be pathetic

[keen belfry]

@dawn talon

[quaint mauve]

your cho gath has diseases

holy shit

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[jolly geyser]

ello

[desert tendon]

tbf

for master and below that s a normal move

he buffered his Q in his flash at the same frame you rooted him

unlucky

[jagged trail]

Hello guys, Quick question. I'm running outlaw rogue in pvp (only) and I have the possibility of using 1 axe/sword in MH and a 730 ilvl sword and a 727 dagger in the offhand. (pictures).
Should I be using the dagger in OH or the sword? I'm confused because the sword is higher ilvl...Will I be missing out on something if i use the sword in OH ? Thank you!

[hardy thicket]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[hardy thicket]

I'd say the 3 ilvl diff prolly means u use sword but im a 100% pure PvE andy so you might wanna ask in #pvp as well

[jagged trail]

Thanks guys!!

[frail veldt]

use two 730 ilvl

dagger offhand is irrelevant in pvp for outlaw

you can use a dagger as offhand if you have a 730 ilvl

but it doesnt matter

[jagged trail]

@frail veldt Well, I didn’t know!! I thought I screwed up!!

Thank you!!

[tender birch]

do you guys actually like the new killiong spree animation better than the old one?

I personally loved the assassin style better than the gunner

[jagged trail]

I don’t….

[jolly geyser]

I dont pay attention to it so cant say

[tender birch]

lol I wish I could be that kind of player

what do you like to pay attention to though, except numbers?

I actually have floating damage text disabled for all I care personally

[jolly geyser]

ground and cds

or just any timer

[tender birch]

understandable, though it's the least appealing part of a game to me

[jolly geyser]

I just dont like dying that much

[loud blaze]

Is it too much to ask for them to temporarily give us a toggle ability that says, "Vanish no longer drops threat." So we can vanish in solo content and not reset bosses. Just for a couple months? Is it that difficult to code into the game?

[jolly geyser]

too much work for blizz

[jagged trail]

@frail veldt Ok, getting back to this, is there any logic why all the top pvp players chose dagger as OH?

[hardy thicket]

I would've prefered if they just kept the old one and let you move/kick/use defensives in it but ye. I kinda like not being locked in and not dying as well

Or well I was kinda asking for a reaper ult/valla ult so I guess its sort of that its just it doesnt really tick any boxes of feeling remotely powerful and its just annoying to use so w/e at least im not dying

[fathom bramble]

it being a weird cone that is also not aoe is a huge drawback

compared to the often given suggestion of reaper/samira ults

[glass mortar]

they r probably equipping pvp items in both slots so a dagger is very slightly better but also daggers r needed to play the other specs so its just an efficient purchase

this level of optimization for outlaw in pvp wont ever be feelable tho

theres just no reason not to if the stats on the dagger are fine

in a vacuum the difference in raw dps is like 0.2% and thats with 100% uptime

just go with ur highest ilvl oh

[fathom bramble]

it's also faster application of numbing

but even that value is probably not particularly high

[glass mortar]

i dont think anyone is not running crip in pvp

[fathom bramble]

sorry not numbing

the heal reduc one

that stacks to 5

[glass mortar]

wound

ye we attack so fast that shit is almost always full stacks insta anyways

[lunar totem]

You can use vanish in solo content if you attack quick enough. There is like a .05 window I feel like

[hardy thicket]

you can but it fucks you over still a lot of times

[fathom bramble]

if you are struggling to reliably vanish in combat you can try a macro

the biggest thing is to only vanish with a global available as the timing itself isn't too terribly difficult

but if you vanish before the GCD is up then it's just always a reset

[glass mortar]

ive fought mobs that even reset when i was using my vanish bte macro ngl

sometimes the game just decides 🖕

[hardy thicket]

i feel like sometimes mobs does some stupid shit that instantly resets threat if you vanish

just feelycraft tho

even if gcd is ready

[frail veldt]

the animation of KS was fine, the teleporting my pov around randomly for 2.5seconds was not

[glass mortar]

like when you pull 5-10 mobs together then vanish bte and somehow 2-3 of the mobs reset but the others dont

[frail veldt]

KS looked cool from another persons perspective

[glass mortar]

doesnt make any sense

[frail veldt]

but it was just stupid to play

cant believe they let it live as long as it did frankly

[fathom bramble]

KS animation isn't even particularly good

[frail veldt]

the substitute isnt great though, seems like a half effort

[glass mortar]

indeed it is not

[fathom bramble]

it just is the same attack animation every 0.3 seconds that never actually finishes

[frail veldt]

it also doesnt make sense

[fathom bramble]

it looked incredibly janky

[frail veldt]

ye

[glass mortar]

also why do we suddenly have double pistols

whered the second come from

[frail veldt]

its like a bad version of reaper ult

[glass mortar]

we never use 2 at any other point

[fathom bramble]

I meant the old melee one

the teleporting disquised the bad animation as cool

[glass mortar]

i mean the new one does exactly what u say also tho

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[glass mortar]

u offload with ur guns so fast but still continue to swing ur swords so like half the animation just cancels itself

[frail veldt]

wasnt it just the ambush animation

[glass mortar]

and then u have a literal "cone" shot for the fire yet it only hits a single target, and a random one at that

[frail veldt]

over and over

[glass mortar]

the entire thing is just a mess

crazy they didnt iterate on it at all in 12.0

[frail veldt]

a non aoe, aoe targeting, channeled spell lol

who in the fuck came up with that

[jagged trail]

Thank yo so much for explaining!!

I really appreciate it!

[fathom bramble]

yes

I don't understand why KS didn't just have the same text Blade rush has

and be aoe

[jagged trail]

So, as i'm always outlaw (and pretty much will be) I'm ok with 1axe an 1 sword both 730 versus 1axe 730 and a dagger 727. correct? I don't need to farm for a 730 conquest dagger then?

[glass mortar]

you do not

[jagged trail]

Thank you a LOT for the explanation!! I really appreciate!!

[frail veldt]

maybe it would suck too much in st

and wed be canceling it

which would probably be bad

I feel like if youre cancelling a channeled cooldown

the spec was designed poorly

[fathom bramble]

the nice part about how BF is constructed is that the aoe and ST components are separate though

it can be WAY more ST than aoe or prefectly equal

[frail veldt]

I mean if you balanced KS around it doing aoe damage

it would do bad damage in ST

right?

[fathom bramble]

not if it has the same mechanic as blade rush that lets primary and secondary damage be different numbers

[frail veldt]

that only helps bladerush do MORE aoe damage

so KS would have a single target hit and an aoe hit youre saying?

[fathom bramble]

yes

just like blade rush

[frail veldt]

on each hit?

it would strike once and aoe

that could probably work yeah

[hardy thicket]

Making it channeled to begin with was yikes

Ig old KS technically channeled since u were locked

[glass mortar]

for like half the duration of the new one yea

[frail veldt]

well we could auto attack during the old one haha

and we couldnt cancel it

which in ways was worse

[glass mortar]

i mean new kspree is def better then old one. its just funny cause its still shit

like trying to make the spell in the worst way u possibly could while still being an improvement

its funny cause on live it has the payoff of at least hitting super hard. ur doing like as much raw dps as a crackshot window when u cast it

but that part even is gone in midnight

[frail veldt]

Yeah if our energy wasnt so much of a problem I think we would be canceling KS early

since you cant auto during it

[torn nest]

What do you guys think of Outlaw in midnight beta

[glass mortar]

🥹

[lime lake]

[frail rover]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[limpid isle]

https://tenor.com/view/filthy-frank-screaming-confused-confused-screaming-gif-15736028

[torn nest]

I’m really enjoying it. Coming from sub retail

[limpid isle]

i mean if you havent mained outlaw for years yeah i suppose its new, different, semi shiny. if you have been playing it though. its hit or miss depending how you look at it. most of us are starving for energy though. at least from my perspective. still needs some polish. but its still fun. the gun is gonna gun and what not.

[torn nest]

Do you have rank 2 vigor and thistle tea

[limpid isle]

ofc, and even with it you will still run into energy issues. but i mean its beta, its w/e. see what happens on launch though.

[quaint mauve]

@frail veldt i conquered vector dynamics

(i got a B)

[frail veldt]

Hell yeah

[quaint mauve]

(and a 40 on the final)

[frail veldt]

Proud of you

[quaint mauve]

bro i didnt even think id pass

how did i get a B

christmas spirit or something man

that curve was insane

[frail veldt]

Earned it

[wintry solar]

Vector? Like, the KRISS Vector?

https://tenor.com/view/kriss-vector-vector-kriss-gun-full-auto-gif-26449944

Utilizing the super V recoil system to mitigate vertical recoil by transferring the energy down???

[desert tendon]

wasnt it a total failure and abandonned in modern days?

[wintry solar]

Nope, agencies all around the world use it

Though with carbines becoming more popular, SMGs in general are getting phased out.

Anybody worth shooting is wearing body armor

[blissful idol]

Any improvements i can make on gear?

[vivid vessel]

ye

find a new mog

for this off hand

ugly ass shit no cap

[blissful idol]

Do I use chips for different weapon for stats or it’s whatever

[remote pecan]

Where's your seasonal themed mog?!?!

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[wintry solar]

Hi

[upbeat blaze]

If im in a dungeon and theres a pack of say, 4+mobs, when under subterfuge should i still spam BTE or spam dispatch for more cleave?

Blade flurry doesnt cleave on BTE shots or am i mistaken

Just came back to rogue and boy is it different

[untold wadi]

no u still bte

[untold wadi]

it cleaves

[upbeat blaze]

Ahhh okay that explains it

i thought it didnt :D

Thanks mate

[latent panther]

Also bte also casts a dispatch. So you always want to cast bte during subterfuge

[arctic matrix]

If we have two weapons of different ilvl do we put the higher ilvl one in the main hand? Sorry coming back to outlaw after a long time

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

[craggy barn]

does feint work on the rot damage from dimmy platforms

like platform 2 pushback rot

[fathom bramble]

yes

[craggy barn]

perf

[fathom bramble]

seems to work on everything except rings, soaking in P1, and the random damage from adds in p1

[craggy barn]

ah it doesnt work on rings?

fuck

guess that makes sense

[fathom bramble]

feinting during rings is still quite meaningful though since you are mitigating the constant aoe damage in the fight during one of the more dangerous portions of the encounter

[craggy barn]

yea im playing sub so i have nothing else to press usually so

thought it also did the ring damage

guess not then

[fathom bramble]

you can shadowstep the rings as well

[craggy barn]

ye

i cant trust anyone unfortunately

[fathom bramble]

idk if I would realistically recommend it though

[craggy barn]

so i havent been stepping

ive just been cloaking one of the ring sets

[fathom bramble]

I hate how much of a fake movement skill step is

[fathom bramble]

that's what I did for our kill too

[craggy barn]

i had to remove normal step from my bar

cuz i accidentally stepped to the wrong planet soak

fat finger

i have like 2 @target steps for p1 and p2

tho

lol

[fathom bramble]

sounds about right

I don't think I cast step a single time in the last phase

nothing has ever made me miss hook more than that fight as sub

[craggy barn]

so close

if we didnt miss a raid day we 100% wouldve had it

🙁

[fathom bramble]

unlucky

[craggy barn]

we also dropped our only evoker before that pull

bc they had internet issues

we have such a weird comp

1 of those hunters is packleader

[hardy thicket]

one shammy gang

[craggy barn]

yuh

i get to pad in p1

also our mages are forced to hold in p2

so i get to pad there too

[hardy thicket]

(im not the rogue)

[craggy barn]

i do so much damage before the burn phase

then its all garbage after burn

[hardy thicket]

Just chillin' pressing immo aura over here

[craggy barn]

god thats so much melee

[hardy thicket]

ye the soaks in p3

iuno i just joined a guild with friends this tier coming back after 1 year hiatius almost and its been a rough one

people leaving left and right, quitting, signing not showing up, I don't miss these things from casual CE guilds. Im going back to my old one after prog is done

reprogging P1 like five times

[craggy barn]

we converted our aotc only guild that was founded in s1 df into mythic raiding this expansion

[hardy thicket]

thats neat

The guild I got HoF with in DF reformed late this season and invited the old timers back so thats going to be hype in Midnight. But scaling it down to more chill 2 nights/week. We were doing 3 nights/week in DF when we first got HoF

[craggy barn]

i became an officer last season and then got shoved guild leader this season

[bright cedar]

okay so a quick question. I'm a sub rogue who wants to give outlaw a try. first thing after swapping was to realize, my daggers are no good however, I did some simming on raidbots, turns out I could just run crafted sword in mainhand and keep my 730 dagger in offhand

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4npP5r8eSaPqKFna5ocDCi

and would not lose a thing

is that way too dank?

[craggy barn]

not dank

u cant use dagger mh

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw can use daggers in offhand, they are slightly better than slow weapon even

[bright cedar]

yeah, raidbots actually prefer it to 2xsword

well then

as stupid as that looks

I'll go with that cause otherwise I have to refarm way too many things

how do you sim for AoE on outlaw?

just dungeon slice?

[craggy barn]

depends on what ur siming for, if ur simming for m+, then yea

[bright cedar]

wow, rock solid 6.3m

i guess it's not enough to recraft my 2 rings and neck + weapon to actually play outlaw

[bright cedar]

is there a recommended video guide for outlaw?

[untold wadi]

nothing recent

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/856897810536071208

and hit dummies for a long ass time

even when it was current, llmch_vulpera's video wasnt 100% comprehensive

he skipped container and some stuff like holding KiR while u have 4 buffs even

[polar kelp]

Anyone try playing without addons yet? I made a new rogue from LVL 1 just using everything blizzard. I can do the old HO build almost perfectly with just tracking buffs manually but that's because it's mainly reroll unless 4+, I've tried KiR without any weakauras or roll add-on and Its just a bit much, can do it mostly right in target dummy but in keys it's a nightmare with kicks and stops....especially with the god awful base raid frames

Hoping midnight will stay simple ish like it looks now honestly...cause without our tools it sucks

[craggy barn]

yes current KIR has issues minmaxing without addons because the container buff system is completely hidden from base ui

midnight outlaw doesnt have that

no container buff

nonsense

[polar kelp]

Yea from what I've seen its basically reroll probably a 1 or 2, and you don't have to keep up your AR?

Hoping it's not boring I guess

[craggy barn]

if u have beta, try it i guess

if uve played pre crackshot outlaw, its kinda like that

[gaunt phoenix]

keep stage 2 rtb

[polar kelp]

Really? Currently it's only reroll 1

[gaunt phoenix]

"reroll 1" and "keep 2" are the same thing

[polar kelp]

Ye sorry I was mid thought lol, not much rolling then eh

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah prolly not much rolling

[craggy barn]

lol

[desert tendon]

+21 lf 4 outlaws

[vivid vessel]

wdym no outlaw ..

[latent panther]

its all of lfg

NA lfg is so stupid

spend more time lfg then actually playing the game, kinda crazy

[gaunt phoenix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[latent panther]

I really cannot stress how awful the solo lfg experience is for outlaw players

honestly rogue in general rn

[gaunt phoenix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/982342616614043680/1419842577003184138/image.gif

[craggy barn]

honestly didnt have much issue in season 2

less players s3 i guess? plus outlaw being even more bleh

[latent panther]

S2 is probably when outlaw was at its peak for the entire expansion

simply because they fixed blade flurry lol

it really comes down to damage, why take outlaw if they no mediocre to bad single target , and really bad aoe (obviously this gets better in smaller packs)

[craggy barn]

our offhand also wasnt 100 ilvl worse 😛

[latent panther]

and outlaw requires a team to be build around it, and contributes nothing back to the team

if its not doing more damage theres really no point in taking one

[wintry solar]

Since the revamp imo

[vivid vessel]

what

you forget s3

we still had acro and not the trickster bullshit

and we were the strongest damage spec in the game

[wintry solar]

I didn't forget s3 actually

[vivid vessel]

way stronger than s2

only bad thing were bte bugs

[wintry solar]

Idc

[vivid vessel]

interesting arguments

[wintry solar]

I don't need an argument

[vivid vessel]

idk i guess i expected an explanation

[craggy barn]

df s3 was giga

[desert tendon]

funny

back in DF s2

i went for 16 days in a row, tagging all day, without doing a single key

i dont remember my lfgcounter stats but it was exceptionnal

[untold wadi]

rip old tierset

[random stirrup]

me in df3 (as havoc)

[indigo token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[untold wadi]

shit was so dry and miserable i rereolled to vdh

application note (54% vers + brez) wasnt enough

[strong halo]

@vivid vessel are y’all done pushing??

[random stirrup]

not taking outlaw is crazy, i understand havoc because vdh was meta

but law was insane that season

[strong halo]

I had someone talk shit to me this week for a dawnbreaker about being on my rogue

Only for them to lose to me in the overall 😭

[untold wadi]

idr exactly the off meta, but that was peak aug+fmage+spriest meta season

even my frost mage wasnt taken

[random stirrup]

it wasnt quite as god comp as df2, pugging around title area you saw a decent amount of variety. lot of ret/outlaw/boomie

aug in particular was dropped fairly often

[timber zephyr]

God what a troll I can’t believe he spends his time like that what a sad person lol

[gaunt phoenix]

it's him !

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[jolly geyser]

heya

[wintry solar]

Omg hi

[desert tendon]

Omg hi

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[vapid sundial]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1422618498991132914/image-7.gif

i think this one is my fav

the other one is copied

[hasty warren]

junk

[wintry solar]

You take that back young pirate

[grim spear]

junk

[terse prawn]

What’s the appropriate payment for a 727 crafting order?

[hasty warren]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[desert tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/looks-like-alot-of-junk-spongebob-annoyed-sb-s6-gif-5694233220419964529

[covert kestrel]

depends on the server and vibes i guess, I usually tipped 2-5k depending on when in the season it is, less as time goes on

[hasty warren]

i'm giving 1.5-2.5k depending if the crafter is cool

[long barn]

Looks like outlaw is right where it needs to be on PTR data for DPS. Very bottom.

[untold wadi]

just rolled this at key start

kir

made it back to 2nd kir with 6 buff still

outlaw my goat

[indigo token]

this emote goes so hard

[blissful idol]

into kick combo?

[sleek oxide]

Hi everyone, do you know if there's some kind of guide on the current outlaw rotation on Beta?

[glass mortar]

Press ur buttons on cd

There's some minor breakdown in #midnight-outlaw

But there isn't much to worry about other then the builder rule

[sleek oxide]

Ok, I'll check it out, honestly I haven't ever played rogue but I'm considering maining it for the whole Midnight expansion (unless I get extremely depressed with tuning and switch)

[untold wadi]

nah w ejust had a great run lmfao

doing the next key

[covert kestrel]

(unless I get extremely depressed with tuning and switch)

Get ready to switch buddy!

[indigo token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[long barn]

Be prepared to be let down.

[arctic matrix]

hi all, I'm having some trouble nailing single target rotation, is there better guides then wowhead/icy veins

nvm im blind

[quaint mauve]

just switch while you’re ahead

rogue gets 0 tuning

[crude anchor]

why can i not use whetstone on this weapon

[quaint mauve]

bc it’s a mace

no?

you need to use a weight stone

right?

[frail veldt]

ye

[quaint mauve]

bro all the classes i was stressing in thinking i was gonna fail

i actually did well in

LOL

all my stress is gone now until next semester

https://tenor.com/view/yamada-kun-to-lv999-no-koi-wo-suru-rurihime-avatar-yamada-kun-to-lv999-no-koi-wo-suru-rurihime-avatar-gif-8891726428566450952

[frail veldt]

good feeling

now you get the holidays

then you get to do it aaaall over again

[quaint mauve]

my friend who was doing thermo this semester said it was lowkey easier than dynamics with my professor

i’m lowkey scared about fluids tho

heard that shit was hell

i’m doing thermo fluids and another materials class

[frail veldt]

sounds awful

[quaint mauve]

along with 2 design classes

[frail veldt]

the fuck is your major

industrial or something

[quaint mauve]

mechanical

[frail veldt]

ah

[quaint mauve]

it’s pretty miserable but

i’m more than half way done already

so it’s almost over

i graduate early if i don’t fail anything

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[keen belfry]

Hi

[bright crane]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rZwomYFkzBKUjTNXi4Mrnp

why do the H raid boots sim lower than the N version?

[gaunt phoenix]

The effect doesnt work if you generate the item in gear compare

[bright crane]

oh

well slap my ass and call me sally

[jolly geyser]

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[jolly geyser]

heya

[hasty warren]

yop how are you ?

[jolly geyser]

Waiting for xmas ig,you?

[hasty warren]

I'm writing a dnd campaign for my guildmates

[jolly geyser]

is it gonna be long?

[hasty warren]

idk first time doing this and I'm the very beginning of the process

[jolly geyser]

well,good luck

[hasty warren]

ty little parot

[left jay]

It's still crazy to me that vanish has been a core ability in the DPS rotation of Rogue specs for years and yet Blizzard still haven't changed it to not be a pain in the ass for solo content

[untold wadi]

real

[glass mortar]

dw midnight fixes it

[untold wadi]

just take shadow dance tbh

no need to drop combat

[neat kernel]

hey guys, im relativeley new to wow and played one season of only tank yet

i wanna get into dd for midnight. what is the best way to learn the spec for midnight? like do i start learning the rotas etc of tww and then work myself along the changes? or is there any good guide alr to start for midnight directly? i have beta access

[frail veldt]

theres extensive guides for outlaw in #outlaw-faq but a lot of the elements of the spec are changing in midnight so there isnt a huge amount of translation necessarily

but the basic concepts will still apply

[errant terrace]

I'd say if you have time, it doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself with the base spec as it is now, not worrying about being perfect
The base concept is the same, building combo points, spending combo points on finishers to reduce cds, spamming cds
A lot of the rotation will change, but those basics will stay

A lot of the complexity of the spec for new players will be removed, so it may be easier to pick it up in midnight

Overall I think it'd take more work to enjoy the spec as is than to wait and start fresh in midnight/beta
Buuuut if you wanna play the fastest and most fun spec in the game it's not a terrible idea to want to play it now

[red zinc]

lmao

you will fail

newtons fourth law of engineering

[untold wadi]

fastest and most fun spec in the game

how i describe outlaw to anyone asking

best spec eva

[frail veldt]

was*

[untold wadi]

⠀

its fried

[quaint mauve]

yeah i heard it’s bound to happen

i have some like leeway

[terse prawn]

!kir

[ornate heath]

KIR build compared to HO:

• doesn't use ambush, uses the same builder priority inside and outside of stealth
• is more cp efficient with pistol shot usage (see faq)
• has to use KIR itself as soon as you hit 4 buffs from RTB/CTO
• has an additional reroll logic after pressing KIR (see faq)
• is more punishing if you mess up builder priority at a given moment
• needs 19% haste from rating to reach 25% during adrenaline rush after alacrity
• KIR 1 FTH really likes trickster optimizations, like prioritizing SS when unseen blades are guaranteed (see faq)

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[cursive gyro]

I seek wisdom from the ancient texts. Does anyone know what the original vision with our mastery was? Its been the hottest garbage as long as I can remember but surely there was a deeper design philosophy back in legion when Combat was reworked into Outlaw?

[glass mortar]

not sure what you mean by vision

if you mean flavor, combat was reworked to have a more "defined" fantasy in legion of a privateer/pirate style duelist, they even removed evasion and gave outlaw a parry version of it. in old style fencing the main gauche was the french term for the offhand parrying dagger, so the idea behind the mastery flavor would be occasionally when you attack you also strike quickly and unexpectedly with your offhand dagger (or just weapon in this case anyway)

it isnt a perfect match but thats where the flavor originates, and probably why we still to this day have talents in the tree that make you trigger main gauche when you dodge an attack (since we are back to evasion being our avoidance cd, not parry)

as for why its been poop, its moreso that it is undertuned then any other reason

our mastery has some flaws design wise but they arent so major that it cant be a good stat, it being a bad stat is an arbritrary decision theyve made by keeping its damage and scaling low over the years

@cursive gyro idk if that answered ur questions

[copper radish]

Holy wall of mastery text

[cursive gyro]

It does, more or less.

[glass mortar]

i dont think most masteries have more of a direction then "be a damage amplifier that is flavored by the spec" and 95% or more of them are reflavored versatility so its not a big deal

just a little sad they decided to make the stat useless for so long

[quaint mauve]

@proven ocean guess it’s time to join u on the osrs grind

[desert tendon]

yes come osrs

b etter mmo

[vapid sundial]

all the outlaw quitting

game succ

unlucky

[bright cedar]

what am i reading honestly

i just made gear for outlaw to try it out

the rotation needs a phd to understand

and there are seemingly no outlaw rogue content creators who can normally explain how to play this spec at least all the videos are very outdated

i love the spec fantasy I want to learn it

but I have never felt this lost in my life

aka pls send help

[glass mortar]

go hit a dummy and try out what its saying

its more natural then it sounds

the core idea is finish at 6+ outside subterfuge, 5+ inside, adrenaline rush is 95%+ uptime in proper play so the whole "dont vanish without adr up" while an important rule isnt one you need to worry about often

unless you are making lots of mistakes or on a fight like dimi

[bright cedar]

oh yeah sorry uh always forget to mention, i almost exclusively play m+

[glass mortar]

sure so u wont run into it often in m+

the adrenaline rush one is a very complicated looking way of basically saying "vanish if you arent about to cast killing spree, you cant proc and consume coup (you dont have trickster blades stacks prepared), or the last case adrenaline rush is about to fall off"

your goal is to maintain and extend adrenaline rush with vanishes, this gives you a window of flexiblity to when you actually cast vanishes but you want to avoid letting adr fall off or overcapping vanish charges

you use this window of flexibility to try to vanish at times where you wont proc coup de grace in the middle of subterfuge, or get kspree off cooldown mid subterfuge (thats why the 20 second cooldown value and recently used coup conditions are there)

but if it doesnt workout and you are about to cap 2 charges of vanish or adr is about to fall off you want to vanish anyway to avoid this

thats the basic idea

90% of the time what it will look like is you will come out of a vanish window, kspree will be nearly off cd, you will do the basic rotation until its off cd and cast it, then it will generate you enough trickster unseen blade stacks that you could coup, so you will continue to do the basic rotation to proc coup and consume it, then you will vanish right after building again

[bright cedar]

that you see makes a WHOLE lot of sense

but then it's worded so confusingly

so basically vanish bte if I know i won't case killing spree and I just consumed my coup

[glass mortar]

these very specific rules are to help you in the 10% of times the flow doesnt work out like i described and you are trying to figure out if u should vanish or not while overflowing with cdr/unseen blade charges

yup pretty much

[bright cedar]

any weakauras?

[glass mortar]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[glass mortar]

id at least recommend getting the unseen blade tracker to help you learn to tell if you can "earn" a coup or not or can vanish safely

other then that just tracking adr uptime/vanish charges and cd, and kspree cd give you most of what you need to know

[bright cedar]

https://wago.io/cmNvhJ7Xl is this any use?

also the entire roll the bones is a bit stressful as a newcomer

[glass mortar]

not needed anymore because vanishing resets the cd of bte

back in df this wasnt the case so you needed to have bte off cd as another condition to use vanish

[bright cedar]

so I added: https://wago.io/g-iov58mx + https://wago.io/Vag0iCd9c

[glass mortar]

rtb is another one of those sounds complicated but is more simple, the basic rules in the FaQ about rolling around raw number of buffs get you 95% of the way there

then theres more complicated minmaxes for that last 5%

but yes a RtB tracker is also important, even if its just to see how many RtB buffs you have period but you arent identifying individual buffs

i use zacs one personally

[bright cedar]

zac one includes everything?

[quaint mauve]

@wintry solar
https://on.soundcloud.com/jdYB6miUCPt7Yl72Sw

[glass mortar]

well his doesnt tell you when or how to roll

[quaint mauve]

wtf no embed

[glass mortar]

i dont like those ones personally so i cant really recommend you any of them as i havent tried them

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/jesus-ballin-mars-bars-gif-19910027

[glass mortar]

someone else may be able to, many people do use them

i also should note that like 90% of the rules that seem complicated and i just explained are completely gone in midnight

so if you wanna put the effort into learning it on live, i think live outlaw is one of the most fun specs we've had but it wont be around for much longer

[bright cedar]

same goes for sub

i learned sub and pushed to resi 16 with it

and I had a ton of fun

I plan to play rogue in midnight, so I want to check out all specs

[glass mortar]

yea i mean learning the spec enough to get the core out of crackshot window gameplay loop down will serve you in midnight because thats most of the rotation so its not useless

its just all these fancy RtB rules and crackshot conditions are gone completely so learning them is just for live if you wanna

[bright cedar]

ty, you've been a great help

[glass mortar]

👍 enjoy

[upper hawk]

you should be able to completely master it just in time for it to completely change

4 weeks. clocks ticking

[desert tendon]

i have a phd in outlaw

[sonic locust]

How are you guys liking outlaw in beta? Feels energy starved to me, but that could just be a gear issue. Thoughts?

[frail veldt]

it does have energy issues

[vivid vessel]

its slow and boring

nothing is happening

0 skill expression

[frail veldt]

opinions are mixed, general take is if you very much enjoy current outlaw you probably wont like midnight version but if you enjoyed S1 DF outlaw then you might like midnight

[vivid vessel]

my grandma could play it

[frail veldt]

its a slower more simplified version of outlaw

[craggy barn]

WE DID IT

FUCK THIS GUY

brto my game was BUGGED during the fucking burn

giga lag 😠

my shit wasnt pressing

im so fucking pissed https://warcraftrecorder.com/link/8818abe1-c081-4930-b512-fbe9adcf5d03

[vivid vessel]

assa

[craggy barn]

bro i got tired of seeing the boss at low hp with some people dying and not having any damage as sub after burn

but i got fucking scuffed on the burn

[desert tendon]

even if i liked df S1 gouge + kir ?

[untold wadi]

i lost invite duel

but at least a brother made it

[frail veldt]

Probably lol

[desert tendon]

it was so bad

but the only way to bring utility to my m+ group

until the meta became 5 off healing with no healers

[frail veldt]

What's wrong with gouge

It's honestly one of my favorite abilities

So iconic

[indigo token]

OUTLAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!