no surely fev/march
#outlaw
fervent garden
haha. i would imagine your right.
hasty warren
haha. i would imagine your right.
they still can do a S1 SL patch
9 month with 0 news
mighty pivot
I'd rather they delay instead of releasing a shitshow but we all know what's going to happen 
quaint mauve
That won't matter
playing fellowship feels like im playing future wow
everything feels too easy
and lacking skill expression
granite merlin
There is a fine line between things being too easy and unnecessarily hard and unfun. Having five if then conditions I just use a weak aura to tell me when to use is just as too easy as slimming down stuff. I’m very on the fence, but do feel some classes are wildly out of hand or have gotten to the point I use 72 abilities and my damage profile is made up of 63% one ability :p
patent mirage
There is a fine line between things being too easy and unnecessarily hard and un...
people seem to not see how this is really bad for a new player and this is what they are changing
granite merlin
lol it’s bad for a lot of old players as well I wanted to play outlaw again after years and put all my resources until gearing outlaw and jesus this spec is just wildly unfun and brutally punishing in wows current state. I have been playing MMOs for like 20 years and unless I can keep ad rush up 96% of time I’m a boat anchor.⚓️
zealous lantern
ar is one thing but keeping shark and broadside up is arguably even more important
its insane how shit outlaw feels without those two up
granite merlin
Last night first boss on mythic I get unlucky rolls no resets and circles to drop 3 times. I was doing just above warrior tank dps. Cause run out mechanics hosed up my ad rush right after burning 3 seconds on killing spree.
Next group I joined after being kicked I get good rolls and a kir and don’t get mechanics and I’m doing “good” damage but no where near top dmg.
young prism
!haste
ornate heathBOT
A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.
*But Haste has a **requirement ** because 
Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.
The 
KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after 
Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.
The 
HO build gets 
Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.
You need to use 
Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.
young prism
%19.05 was the ultimate cap for haste right?
vivid vessel
something around that
vivid vessel
wtf is bank holiday
young prism
public holiday 🙂
vivid vessel
for banks?
vivid vessel
do you have to go to the bank
fervent garden
hahahaha
vivid vessel
during bank holiday
young prism
no you don't
fervent garden
its an english thing
vivid vessel
hm
fervent garden
nothing
vivid vessel
hm
strong halo
It’s just holidays where banks /markets close
fervent garden
i chatGPT'ed it
Americans say “public holiday” or “federal holiday,” the British kept “bank holiday” — a holdover from Victorian finance law.
vivid vessel
It’s just holidays where banks /markets close
no way that ever happen
strong halo
Pretty sure if you look up banks are always closed on bank holidays
mighty pivot
even the sperm bank?
strong halo
And some peoples work follows banks / markets
fervent garden
is it bank holiday in France ?
look what you started
young prism
🙁
vivid vessel
hm
vivid vessel
what
strong halo
I’m French and I have no idea what you just said lmao
gaunt phoenix
le coup
young prism
how do you say cup in french?
young prism
hahaha
fervent garden
awwww grace
strong halo
Une coupe *
young prism
okey I'm resolving this now
in fact zac was right 😄
I just asked chatgpt "why it is caleld bank holiday"
and the answer is :
The term “bank holiday” comes from the fact that banks (and other financial institutions) were the first places that officially closed on these days — meaning no banking transactions could take place.
🏦 Origin: The term originated in the United Kingdom in the 19th century.
📜 Bank Holidays Act of 1871 (UK): This law, introduced by Sir John Lubbock, officially designated certain days as holidays for banks and financial workers.
💰 Reason: Because banks were closed, businesses couldn’t process payments, cheques, or other transactions — so most other businesses also closed, and it effectively became a public holiday for everyone.
strong halo
That’s what I said
vivid vessel
how do you say cup in french?
coupe
young prism
but coupe de grace means something like final blow right?
vivid vessel
ye
strong halo
Coup*
strong halo
Coup you don’t pronounce the P
young prism
at some point in my life I need to learn French
mighty pivot
coup de grace is a mercy blow
which is why it's nonsense that it's 3 strikes but eh
vivid vessel
coup de grace is a mercy blow
ye but not necesseraly
That's what it means litteraly but
It'd just used as a final blow
Not necessarily a final blow of mercy
strong halo
Im ngl idk why blizzard named that ability that way
Doesn’t really fit what it does
We really are at an all time low. Turbo boost and Dinars came out and it’s more interesting to talk about French words than outlaw rogue
mighty pivot
maybe they find names they think are cool before they decide on the functionality or maybe it did something else initially
rename coup de grace to "crescendo of strikes"
strong halo
“Triple tickle”
gaunt phoenix
Trouple couple
mighty pivot
sometimes they do a very good job with talent names like the smoke/mirrors and float like a butterfly/sting like a bee (rip) nodes
other times you get shit like "Murder"
and if you are giga unlucky you get stuff like "inevitabile" (also rip)
elder phoenix
We really are at an all time low. Turbo boost and Dinars came out and it’s more ...
I mean https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/m-dinar-vendor-items-not-available-despite-meeting-requirements/2188332/22 having 6 hours maintenance for this bullshit to happen is tiresome blizzard incompetence fatigue is setting in
strong halo
You didn’t read the patch notes??! There was a lot of changes
elder phoenix
You didn’t read the patch notes??! There was a lot of changes
There's 2 vendors btw. one for heroic and one for mythic for the dinars
strong halo
This one
I really think Blizzard deserves to be flamed a little for this season on forums. Good content but 100000 bugs across dungeons and specs, the laziest tuning I’ve ever seen? Release dinars halfway through and hope people stay until midnight?
quaint mauve
its insane how shit outlaw feels without those two up
nono…. there’s nothing worse than not having adr up actually
i rather have 40% broadside uptime
than even having low 90% adr uptime rn
elder phoenix
I really think Blizzard deserves to be flamed a little for this season on forums...
This season? The whole expansion is a shit show.
case in point : dawnbreaker
gaunt phoenix
i liked the first tier
elder phoenix
3 seasons later and still has the same bugs since season 1
strong halo
Yeah but I would say previous seasons they were engaged enough to tune / change things to make it at least seem like they had their finger on the pulse
mighty pivot
they should just not do ship/train dungeons
quaint mauve
i like the wod train dungeon
strong halo
This season they’ve fucked off. Which is a shame because MFO is actually a pretty cool raid, and the dungeons are cool too minus bug breaker
elder phoenix
Or they should just actually releasae a competent product. Its not like they're not getting paid for it with our subscription
Like i understand if this happens in diablo 4
mighty pivot
why are they releasing buggy updates even though they are not doing it for free? Are they stupid?
covert kestrel
elder phoenix
why are they releasing buggy updates even though they are not doing it for free?...
odds are they been clocked out this expansion and focusing on midnight
mighty pivot
"odds"? 
covert kestrel
odds are they been clocked out this expansion and focusing on midnight
the state of their nameplates shows how locked in they are
magic shuttle
Giving a 10% aura buff does not require a colossal amount of focus tho
strong halo
the state of their nameplates shows how locked in they are
Lmao
mighty pivot
chasing the nameplate will be a nice minigame
strong halo
I actually think they listened to max after RWF say “the most balanced tier ever” and thought great let’s take the rest off tier off
long barn
Don’t give up. I got mine last week. Did it every week. I also believe it’s worth, but I’ve been thinking this causing me low numbers on Ara first pull.
mighty pivot
they will replace takem with a cudgel proc talent in tonight's alpha build. You heard it here first
long barn
Bahahahh
strong halo
I have 691 cudgel but I don’t use it I’m not convinced it’s Better than 730 off hand
wintry solar
they will replace takem with a cudgel proc talent in tonight's alpha build. You ...
I wonder if cudgel was the straw that broke the camels back
mighty pivot
if they cared about cudgel they'd have nerfed it
wintry solar
I mean the vanish interaction
They could've easily decoupled outlaw from vanish without removing it from RB
I bet cudgel will make a comeback
mighty pivot
the vanish interaction yes the weapon does nothing without it
but that's like 1 item in the entire expansion that was worth using due to vanish alone
wintry solar
For 2 seasons
mighty pivot
as opposed to the several other problems vanish creates
elder phoenix
so who here have 5 dinars
instead of 3
if you missed out yesterday
then HAHAHA
zealous lantern
elder phoenix
imagine needing dinars instead of allready having the items
imagine farming and hoping for that item to drop but i can just go to a vendor and buy it
zealous lantern
get a job
long barn
if they cared about cudgel they'd have nerfed it
That would imply that the Devs actually care or look at outlaw
mighty pivot
they cared enough to fix double coup
elder phoenix
Fuck jsut realized i have to do mythic soul hunters
to actually get the trinket/boots. LAME i have no desire to step in or do actual mythic raiding this tier ZZZZZ
ig i have to ditch out some gold to kill 1 mythic boss 1 time 🙁
vivid vessel
LFR andy
elder phoenix
im doing this to see if i can get geared up without doing anything involving the raid
im at 725 ilvl rn LOL
glass mortar
its like 1% dif between that and myth
so why bother trying to pug
myth soul hunters
cba
elder phoenix
Im not pugging im trying to see if i can ditch some gold out to get 1 kill just for the kill no loot
I make enough gold lol so idc enough
i dont even need to spend a token on it
spare lake
hybrid crown
Outlaw is kinda decent on loomithar I feel like
We can sometimes hit both webs and the boss during subterfuge
Esp if the group lusts on pull
Then our consistent damage is not a problem in p2 with the amp
I think most groups lust on pull?
arctic hollow
I think most groups lust on pull?
it's not as necessary since the huge stealth nerf.
The links that you need to break dont overlap with the laser you need to soak anymore. Before that the second player to soak the laser could get hit with the web link and it was a death sentence without focused heal or an external
hybrid crown
Ahh
I got a pretty sick parse on that one I managed 6.4 mil
We had a pretty drawn out p2 though
ocean lodge
im buying herioc boots
Me buying heroic brand on my tanks so I never have to set foot in raid again
ocean lodge
I got a pretty sick parse on that one I managed 6.4 mil
This mf is a demon at outlaw I can't fucking beat him
vivid vessel
@gaunt phoenix
gaunt phoenix
random stirrup
<@921608341048930304>
Grats on alpha
vivid vessel
tyty
elder phoenix
Grats on alpha
what which version is alpha on that
mighty pivot
all of them
hybrid crown
Lol
elder phoenix
Still no clue what you talkin about lol what alpha
mighty pivot
@vivid vessel can you help this guy out now that you both have alpha?
elder phoenix
I really cant be ass to crest farm
I have 5 more items to upgrade
idk if the meta is doing 12s or spamming 7s
worldly shale
idk if the meta is doing 12s or spamming 7s
idk im spamming 12s
gambit took 15 mins
eco 18
dawn 19
its kinda fast
vivid vessel
@glass mortar
glass mortar
there he is
midnight granite
ocean lodge
idk if the meta is doing 12s or spamming 7s
12s
More likely to have potato teammates if you go lower
So it's not worth
fervent garden
hahaha potato teamates
elder phoenix
looks like u gotta lube up ur weapons with some haste now
https://i.imgur.com/YZhBL1P.jpeg am i doing it right
ocean lodge
Based
glass mortar
mine has been scuffed ever since i got cudgel
i gain/drop ~400 haste swapping it so
ocean lodge
Is cudgel still worth it? I have the rare one
ocean lodge
Even after turbo? Huh.
glass mortar
678 one vs 727 is more sketch
ocean lodge
There some useful macros to kinda automate its use
glass mortar
i mean 678 one was beating 720 oh after solo discovered how shit oh was
so it would surprise me if 691 wasnt beating a 727
elder phoenix
THIS GUY HASTECAPS
im scared to upgrade my neck cuz of this LOL
glass mortar
🥹 i just wanna farm some crests man
been getting declined from 12s for over an hour
elder phoenix
whats your ilvl
and your io
I get instant invite as outlaw with 725 ilvl lol 3100 io
elder phoenix
thats weird
glass mortar
im so mad i got invites to two +13 priories in a row after 30 minutes of queuing, then both had the leader and healer ragequit because the tank went left
oh i got an inv to a +12 dawn and flew over then was removed from the group 30 seconds later
thanks for removing me from all my other queues guys
royal ermine
did they just kick you from that group
glass mortar
🥹
royal ermine
xddd
my girl just got into that group that you were in and I asked who it was cuz she said there was an outlaw rogue in that group
glass mortar
i thot the middle of the day where its dead af id be able to cop some invites if i queued into almost empty keys
unlucky
royal ermine
Id offer cuz I 'm rshamming atm but I have to leave in like 15m for a few hours
cuz she still needed crests
elder phoenix
i think crests isnt the issue rn for me
tbh
its valor
im at 100~ or so valor after upgrade alot of shit yesterday
glass mortar
gdi i got an invite to an io key now i need to refresh consumables
elder phoenix
its wild riadbots wants me to lose verse
vivid vessel
ye idc i dont sim
elder phoenix
if i had that stats raidbots would tell me to lose alot of verse and add more Crit and get 22% haste
hybrid crown
I think the cape and dmg proc trinkets make crit a bit better but the difference is so small
I compared vers to crit flask and the difference was like 1k dps
glass mortar
ye vers is in its DR range so
crit is just ass
they r both basically the same this season due to that (assuming ur past vers dr) but also vers gives DR so
y wuld u ever pick crit
elder phoenix
literally raidbots has a hardon for 22% haste
random stirrup
I was given the dimmy weapon and sigil yesterday
Maybe it’s almost time to rip the outlaw out
elder phoenix
is sigil really that op
I have warpclaw 730 ilvl
its mogging the other trinkets
im curious why https://i.imgur.com/tswsfE7.jpeg rank it with letters but not show how much % the trinkets are with each other
glass mortar
u are a carry as outlaw
make sure u dont die because u contribute almost nothing useful to the fight
@gaunt phoenix knows the trick for the opener that makes it so fatebound coins dont get broken by the portal
iirc its break stealth before u take portal (with bf)
dont let portal break it
gaunt phoenix
use blade flurry right before portal
glass mortar
ya ok i thought that was it
gaunt phoenix
then open with macro when in range
agile orchid
(im cheating )
zac is back to abusing bugs it seems 
copper radish
zac is back to abusing bugs it seems <:WeirdChamp:985509113792446534>
Would outlaw even DPS without bugs
tender wedge
That’s exactly what it looks like lol yeah
proven ocean
did they accidentally factor in legion remix
i wouldn't be surprised if people got the title from legion remix btw
because it happened in season 2 tww lmao
and they didnt give a shit
red zinc
what did
proven ocean
u remember prepatch when r1 keys were as easy as +2?
idk if u were there but
in season 1 last week when we got undermine unlocked
but raid wasnt up yet
all M+ got scaled down
and people did +20 keys
green io plebs got r1 io in 3 days of playing
none of those titles were revoked
💀
so ye
theres a very very good chance legion remix counts for 0.1% title
random stirrup
Title gonna go crazy
red zinc
Title gonna go crazy
someone hit 10m rio already
elder phoenix
https://i.imgur.com/AgjkYjD.jpeg i can buy this now . i regret grabbing our bis gloves though from vault yesterday cuz that meant i didnt have to buy this
But bis gloves looked sexier
hybrid crown
I think imma save bis gloves for my third token
Either that or offhand
Prolly soul hunter trinky, boots, gloves or OH
elder phoenix
Offhand it is then
yeah i think ima get the dagger offhand
but that also means ima lose like 500 haste
Oh no
Oh that means i can use sacbrood then
latent panther
!stats
ornate heathBOT
A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.
*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.
The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.
The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.
You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.
nova blaze
what would be a good button to use the netherprism at ? was thinking about adrenaline rush since i use it to fill cp in vanish windows
timid portal
what would be a good button to use the netherprism at ? was thinking about adren...
after kir
timid portal
nova blaze
what can i say my brains a dice and none of the sides are broadsite
cinder haven
outlaw is so weird
simmed a bit and going from 5 targets to 10 targets only adds like 30% dps
mighty pivot
PC
cinder haven
yeah and to be fair we do very good damage at 5 targets
hybrid crown
Dagger off hand ewwwww gross
mighty pivot
I like PC, it's a shame it's going away
cinder haven
I don't mind that it is going away I think
GS and PC going away, I wonder what that will do to our damage profile
should be better at 8t than currently at least
vivid vessel
im worried about gs
mighty pivot
strong low target cleave is cool as a niche, it's just not that useful
vivid vessel
gs going away means potentially they will be scared and nerf bf again and then we do no damage
eh idk whatever
cinder haven
I hope we get a funnel hero talent
vivid vessel
its irrelevant
only real change is pc
but pc was shit
it
idk
fucking cringe af talent
destroying our tuning
cinder haven
yeah it's really strange
it would be cool if PC instead was a talent that added extra damage to the highest health targets or something
mighty pivot
% max hp damage 
vivid vessel
i still think outlaw can have a niche while being target capped
if they change bf to target highest raw hp mob
cinder haven
regardless of total number of targets, like the 3 with most health takes x % extra damage from BF (even if its the main target) and you are guaranteed to hit the 3 top hp targets with BF
vivid vessel
obviouslly this would mean we cant cleave on like
totems and stuffs
i think thats fine tho
cinder haven
can always target them even if thats a pain
vivid vessel
ye
cinder haven
at least we get rid of GS and coup needing fazed
mighty pivot
it's less of a pain without GS
cinder haven
so target swapping isn't really an issue?
vivid vessel
eh
ninja
imagine
new plates
no colors
cant even read the name
just random totem plate spawning
cinder haven
totem oh no
mighty pivot
the new expression of skill is managing to click the nameplate that is running away from your cursor
cinder haven
but you are supposed to look at the in game models to understand what they do you see
not supposed to stare at UI elements
mighty pivot
you know that pack with the priestess in priory, or the one when you enter the temple with the billions of garbage mobs
cinder haven
just hide plates yeah?
mighty pivot
imagine the nameplates there
vivid vessel
if they dont allow changing colors of plates per mobs
idk
m+ will be so much less fun
like magnitudes less fun
red zinc
if they dont allow changing colors of plates per mobs
this would require them to do work
vivid vessel
idk about that
red zinc
none of that
red zinc
I mean theres no way for them to do it with their current mentality
vivid vessel
its like personall cds/buffs
red zinc
like
red zinc
mob ids and what not
mighty pivot
it's really not that much work to categorise the mobs in dungeons into 4 categories and let you choose a colour for each
vivid vessel
im saying outside of the fun stuffs like coloring plate, changing name etc
you cant do anything else
vivid vessel
ok the worse you could do ye
cinder haven
shame on you
vivid vessel
is have a little weak aura pop up on top of a plate on certain mobs
like a arrow on totems
thats kinda hwatever tho
and thats just like coloring a plate
cinder haven
unfair advantage !
vivid vessel
also that kinda should be in game anywya
xd
but ye
like
if blizzard gives access to mob id
and i do mean mob id not guid
cause guid you can abuse some stuffs
for example the weak aura that hide every plate that you dont wanna hit on dimensius p2
mighty pivot
well, they think they can make it obvious where each mob is without the nameplates (I don't see how personally)
vivid vessel
thats cause the mobs alwayus spawn at the same like
cinder haven
and what they do?
vivid vessel
but ye
cinder haven
they have some idea on what they want probably yeah
cinder haven
s2 maybe you get it
vivid vessel
idk why that type of things is hidden
cinder haven
almost certainly not s1
cinder haven
it is for sure an advantage
vivid vessel
put a version of it in game
or dont
and let people have this advantage
its just
so bad
not having it
cinder haven
how did we derail into this UI discussion again when we were talking about PC
vivid vessel
no idea
cinder haven
I hope the damage profile gets some help via the new hero talents
but it probably wont
mighty pivot
we will never know the numbers (other than through parses), but I am curious to see how many people will just stop playing if the current restrictions go through (they will relax them tbh but no idea how much)
red zinc
They didnt even put new hero talent nodes on roadmap
Watch em drop something halfbaked halfway through beta
cinder haven
did we complain about getting remix tuning instead of live tuning yet?
cinder haven
consider this my formal complaint then
mighty pivot
at least when checking what other classes got as new hero talents (the new nodes, not reworks) they didn't seem to affect gameplay that significantly
cinder haven
they are supposed to never be defensives
only damage stuffs
but if any of them change up the damage profile somehow idk
haven't looked close enough
mighty pivot
yes but it's mostly "you do 2% more damage when X is up" and stuff like that
that's not enough to shape your damage profile
mighty pivot
sub is in dire shape
cinder haven
looks a bit bleak for sub yeah
vivid vessel
guys ..
when is the last time we progged as something else than sub
common now
you all know it will happen again
mighty pivot
it's not looking like it unless they make drastic changes
you've seen what they did
vivid vessel
doenst matter cuh
litteraly doesnt matter
im betting on sub till it goes live
if its still shit i lose my bet
sure
but its been sub for the past 3 expac every tier
so im relatively safe
mighty pivot
I just realised that due to their change to Fate Intertwined, assa gets stronger caustic as FB
cinder haven
but no funnel
mighty pivot
yeah but FB has a lot more ST and no inverse funnel anymore. It could work out
I just hope outlaw still plays trickster over FB
fathom bramble
FB still has coins flurrying for slightly less so if they are close you may prefer trickster in aoe
craggy barn
its sin prog for sure in midnight
cinder haven
I don’t know if I wanna play without perma tricks
craggy barn
running with perma tricks then without baits u into thinking u still have perma tricks
ll
just running at packs and almost dying
bc u forgot
should give us perma tricks, and threat multiplier as our m+ buff, help tank with threat pepw
mighty pivot
FB = no permatricks and 10% less finisher crit chance with crit being way stronger
cinder haven
You can basically macro tricks bte
For example on anything you would open on a pack with
And then have [nocombat] or something
Idk you probably don’t even need that on trickster
cinder haven
FB = no permatricks and 10% less finisher crit chance with crit being way strong...
Yeah and what is the upside on FB?
More ST maybe
quaint mauve
did we complain about getting remix tuning instead of live tuning yet?
it’s too late to care anymore
i doubt there’s gonna be any tuning changes
ocean lodge
It's actually insane that outlaw got nothing at all lol
shell fossil
there's pre expansion/pre season probably
mighty pivot
Yeah and what is the upside on FB?
more energy, probably more ST through coins, slightly higher SS double strike chance too. So gameplay should be more predictable
cinder haven
We are not last anymore somehow tho
mighty pivot
especially now that lucky coin isn't random
mighty pivot
the new build is a bit late today
quaint mauve
We are not last anymore somehow tho
r we ahead of havoc
ik they’re bugged rn
because they start off with 0 cycle stacks instead of 1 like they’re supposed to
untold yarrow
why are rings not on vendor
glass mortar
r we ahead of havoc
last i checked we were second to last fighting survival for the bottom
me when my two favorite specs
quaint mauve
why are rings not on vendor
they werent last season
except for jastor bc it was special item
craggy barn
u can wear 2 of the same crafted rings right? (same stats)
vivid vessel
y
frail veldt
last i checked we were second to last fighting survival for the bottom
good thing they said that this is okay to them on triple dps specs
cuz you can always just switch specs 🙂
working as intended
ocean lodge
If they were to change the mastery, what do you guys think would be the most fun?
Ignoring the fact it'd probably just end up being some boring rng multiplier and/or damage % boost
frail veldt
Most fun would be extra fire damage on gun abilities
Id enjoy that at least
Simple to balance but lil flavor
harsh forge
fathom bramble
Same thing it is now, but the extra hit should deal damage based on the triggering hit
And work on our gun skills
silver forum
any luck on the drops in legion remix?
ocean lodge
Most fun would be extra fire damage on gun abilities
explosive ammo
gaunt phoenix
I like it, i think people generally do
slate plaza
really?
whats gonna happen with kir and all that? (i havent played since last season, had to take a hiatus for uni)
also how much simpler is the spec now?
gaunt phoenix
to me the new rtb is good because stage 1 and stage 2 are essentially BS and SNC, which are the most fun and gameplay affecting buffs
And currently you will basically always have at least stage 2 active
gaunt phoenix
It's in #midnight-outlaw pins and such
slate plaza
ty solo
gaunt phoenix
also how much simpler is the spec now?
the spec is gonna play like late SL or early DF mostly
slate plaza
still somewhat complicated
late sl/early df is when i started and i would say it was def the most flowy feeling
i like the sound of that
frail veldt
to me the new rtb is good because stage 1 and stage 2 are essentially BS and SNC...
Am I cooked that I wish they would swap stage 1 and 2?
BS is the stage 1 right?
I kinda wish that one wasnt always on so we kept the variety of having both sets of rules
torpid fiber
SNC is stage 1 rn iirc
frail veldt
Aaaaah okay then that's good I thought it was the other way around
gaunt phoenix
What would you change?
ocean lodge
Remove the node under blade rush, do something about how awkward HO is right now, make faster grapple baseline (and bring the speed back ofc)
fair charm
Why do we aim for 19% haste and not 20%?
fathom bramble
% haste bonuses like alacrity actually multiply your haste
so 19.05% haste becomes 25% with alacrity active
silk dirge
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fair charm
so 19.05% haste becomes 25% with alacrity active
Forgive me for not fully understanding but isn’t Alacrity only 5% though? How is it really 6%?
fathom bramble
you multiply independent haste bonuses against eachother
so you take 1.1905(our target haste)
and multiply it with 1.05(alacrity)
those 2 get you to 1.25 or 25% haste
fair charm
Gotcha! Thanks!
fair charm
Any chance in hell someone knows what 19.05% haste is in haste rating value (at max level)? 😬
quaint mauve
shoulda been an outlaw thing
smoky lotus
shoulda been an outlaw thing
this is what softcapped ks shouldve been
elder phoenix
https://i.imgur.com/YdVKk0m.jpeg trinkets ffrom the drop optimizer
lol sigil is 2.7% upgrade
Sigh that means i have to actually do mythic hunters now
also
some items
arent in the sim results
tf
why tf doesnt it show gear from certain dungeons
Tf
twilit crown
!kir
ornate heathBOT
KIR build compared to 
HO:
- doesn't use ambush, uses the same builder priority inside and outside of stealth
- is more cp efficient with pistol shot usage (see faq)
- has to use KIR itself as soon as you hit 4 buffs from RTB/CTO
- has an additional reroll logic after pressing KIR (see faq)
- is more punishing if you mess up builder priority at a given moment
- needs 19% haste from rating to reach 25% during adrenaline rush after alacrity
- KIR 1 FTH really likes trickster optimizations, like prioritizing SS when unseen blades are guaranteed (see faq)
strong halo
@vivid vessel yall still pushing io?
cinder haven
I did some dungeon route simming
And FB kinda wins over TR there
Gonna try it a bit in keys again
Needing to be in melee to vanish is ass though
And no permatricks
Sorry to the keyholders in advance
craggy barn
i played fb in a key once out of boredom
cinder haven
Hmm, maybe it’s fake
craggy barn
its not great outside st bossing
cinder haven
Maybe I forgot to set single batch actor
craggy barn
like doing 8m dps in hoa first pull bad
cinder haven
I did a DB with it and it was good there at least
craggy barn
vs 18m
cinder haven
like doing 8m dps in hoa first pull bad
That would be a skill issue
craggy barn
but doing 5m on bosses vs 4
cinder haven
FB isn’t even close to being that far behind on aoe
Of course you have to play with the unpublished rules to do damage
craggy barn
overall was pretty mediocre
unkempt smelt
Can Outlaw still hope for buffs before Midnight or they are done with us?
craggy barn
i dont expect any real live tuning at this point for anyone
lime mist
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wicked kestrel
I'm struggling learning outlaw. for some reason I cannot wrap my head around it. maybe its the vanish/crackshot windows that are fucking me up
hasty warren
Hi Pirates
hasty warren
I'm struggling learning outlaw. for some reason I cannot wrap my head around it....
Have you read the faq mate ?
digital linden
Of course you have to play with the unpublished rules to do damage
what unpublished rules
glass mortar
how does a shotgun fit survival class fantasy whatsoever
(it doesnt)
cinder haven
what unpublished rules
some of it is in pins, some in #1065730004920586350 if you care to dig around a bit
mostly stuff about aligning vanish, gs, adr
wicked kestrel
Have you read the faq mate ?
I have not I will take a look now. Tyvm
cinder haven
the faq is very good
digital linden
oh yeah i thought u meant something else
cinder haven
did a few FB keys now
can do good damage for sure, but it's harder
and the upside is only a bit more boss damage realistically
nocturne talon
does pre key fuckery still work?>
heavy shadow
Any idea why I can't buy idol? I +12 all dungeons
weary fog
does pre key fuckery still work?>
roll the bones twice -> adrenaline rush + killing spree gives u LD & 3 UB stacks yeah
glass mortar
why RtB twice
bright lodge
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
Pre-key fuckery
RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.- Just before key placement use AR into
KS to get 
Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs. - KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
- During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
- After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
- Before entering the first pack
BF into 
Stealth. - Open onto the pack with AR into
BtE.
weary fog
why RtB twice
just so u can keep the first two stacks of SC
glass mortar
wat
oh what a weird combo
i just do a kspree outside the entrance then 1 RtB after
and ur ready for the key
i guess this is for people that dont have target dummies
cinder haven
I mess up too many vanishes still on FB due to not being in range for GS
glass mortar
the GS rule is pretty cringe yea
glass mortar
i played 1 key as fatebound recently (by accident) and in addition to the damage being 💩 trying to get the ghostly rule to work on shorter duration encounters (it was only a 12) was just awful
proven ocean
Sounds like skill issue
cinder haven
it is of course a skill issue
proven ocean
They’re deleting GS anyway arent they
glass mortar
i assume u mean because ghostly strike has a shorter range then auto range
cinder haven
I'm just fighting against my instinct to use vanish to keep doing damage when I have to go out of melee
glass mortar
so if u vanish with ghostly macrod u will immediatly queue up to auto attack
but if u were out of range as u vanished u wont ghostly
cinder haven
nah, gs has same range as auto I think
glass mortar
dont think so, auto is usually 1-2 yards longer then melee range spells
glass mortar
autos usually go off from further then melee range
at least for me
maybe a latency thing tho
cinder haven
nah has same range
proven ocean
proven ocean
Weran its not the distance ur struggling with
glass mortar
i def see myself getting white hits on targets while getting not in range error messages
proven ocean
Im 90% sure ur at low energy and ur not even realize it
cinder haven
oh no error speech
glass mortar
wdym i didnt say i have this issue i was just thinking out loud about why tob got it
cinder haven
I thought everyone turned that off
proven ocean
Or the other point could be u dont know the real melee range because ur not playing 16 hrs a day
proven ocean
oh no error speech
No one plays with it
glass mortar
my issue is holding vanishes for ghostly to come off cd in a 40 second pack and missing multiple vanishes on the pack due to it
cinder haven
except weran
glass mortar
i have the sound on it turned off but the message still pops up in the center of my screen
proven ocean
Missing multiple vanishes
glass mortar
i think i used to have an addon to turn it off that i never updated
proven ocean
What
glass mortar
idk its one of those things u have on for so long ur brain just ignores it can u turn them off in the default settings now
cinder haven
it's bad if I hold vanish and gs to sync with adr and then finally when everything is aligned I press the macro when I'm not in melee
when I've played this now tho I kinda feel like I wanna hold even more
proven ocean
Out of range thing? Idk im always in range
glass mortar
no error messages in general
cinder haven
remember that I'm not a top player 🙂
proven ocean
no error messages in general
Ye idk
cinder haven
I was always in range
glass mortar
like they dont make sound but i still get the red text in center of my screen, idk if thats something u can just turn off now
proven ocean
I was always in range
O i was replying to weran
cinder haven
when we had acro 
proven ocean
like they dont make sound but i still get the red text in center of my screen, i...
Idk ask zac
cinder haven
I'm for sure not always in range now
cinder haven
it depends a bit on how good the tank is too
glass mortar
i mean its very easy to end up 1 yard out of melee range of ur target when the tanks pull 20 dudes and ur in a crackshot window
u can go entire windows not using a melee range spell
PS stacks and deft
cinder haven
yeah, you can but it is of course better to be in melee if possible
proven ocean
Most tanks are dogshit when it comes to keeping melee players in range
glass mortar
oh absolutely
glass mortar
Most tanks are dogshit when it comes to keeping melee players in range
its when tanks feel the need to micro adjust 5000 times
yea
cinder haven
I love when tanks do it right
glass mortar
because the tank moving 3 yards can make the mobs move all over
cinder haven
you can tell after like 1 minute of the key
glass mortar
and its like u gathered this pack 10 seconds ago why are u moving constantly
proven ocean
Like
You’ll know ur good with movement if u can keep 100% uptime with a vdh leaping 10 packs away
But its also abnoxious if u dont have mobility ready
Atleast assa struggles with placing ruptures rarely due to range
Its rly annoying for assa
Idk how bad it is for outlaw but i dont remember it being as bad as bleeding mobs
If anything in m+ assa needs acro as much as outlaw
Sub aswell you could arguue
Some classes just have infinite range spells which dont make sense in comparison
As a rogue you just cant do things because of the limited range u have on certain abilities like secret technique not hitting everything
Meanwhile u have starfall covering the entire continent
Acro discussion is pretty clear and obvious none of the devs have a melee main playing the game
cinder haven
hmm, I wonder about aoe opener with cursed stone idol as FB
surely you want the crit buff for the initial gs+adr
but if you open with the trinket you trigger the bug?
or maybe not since it's a weirdo channel trinket
I guess it's just theoretical anyway since tank is usually collecting mobs for a week
glass mortar
should still trigger the bug
cinder haven
it didn't seem to on dummies
I don't remember if the bug happens on dummies though
or if it happens every time
!stealthbugs
ornate heathBOT
- Breaking
Vanish with a trinket will not grant 
Subterfuge. Recasting(fixed as of 11.1) Stealth while Subterfuge is already active will not grant you 
UHUH or 
Crackshot bonuses until Subterfuge expires.- Casting Vanish at the same frame that a previous Subterfuge ends will cause Crackshot to not activate.
- After breaking Stealth, there is about a 100ms delay before the effects of Subterfuge happen. You will thus lose about 100ms of adr
cinder haven
it's specifically breaking vanish with a trinket
and opener is not breaking vanish but stealth
maybe that's why it works
glass mortar
hmm r u sure, fairly certain it was just anytime u procced subterfuge with a damage trinket for me it wouldnt give it
but i havent done anything that could even trigger the bug in several seasons so
maybe it was fixed or changed
cinder haven
maybe
wicked kestrel
So as far as rotation. I follow the opener which is very simple to follow then just follow the priority list and react to procs and what not? am i understanding that right? Sorry im a slow learner.
glass mortar
yes
outlaw is all about reacting to procs to be resource efficient as resource efficiency is what gives you enough energy to keep up the cdr churn you need to maintain adr
wicked kestrel
perfect. thank you! im slooowly getting there. lol
glass mortar
speaking of resource efficiency
i did a 13 dawn yesterday and on the first boss it looked like i was trolling @vivid vessel
i had 9 SS in a row and then 12 SS in a row dry
i didnt even break 3m dps
dropped adr twice + once to the intermission fly
didnt have broadside once the whole fight either
i was dangerously close to grappling off the side of the boat
PoV: you've decided you deserve to walk the plank
glass mortar
i had my first fly through the side boats happen this season also
so now ive had to unlearn dismounting midair to grapple down to the pack for speed
i dismounted and had no path then just fell through the boat and died
cinder haven
when it is a bit laggy the boats locations seems umm, iffy?
glass mortar
yea that dungeon is a disaster
i dont think they r gunna do something like that again
cinder haven
haha
glass mortar
idk the ship flying around is a cool idea but what a mess
the amount of things it breaks
cinder haven
I'm gonna save this
glass mortar
shoulda just been in a fixed location
cinder haven
ye ye
glass mortar
ud be surprised how much stuff doesnt get fixed until friends of devs force those devs to join them in the keys and experience them at an actual level
people with devs on their bnet (like certain wowhead employees i know) can tell when dungeon tuning/fixes are coming because they can see them in the keys 
molten heath
Any advices to gear up fast and rapidly get into doing high keys/mythic raiding please ?
glass mortar
delves
mighty pivot
I fell through the boat today
was that the FB trial? maybe it was a sign
glass mortar
do ur delves + lfr, get gear u can upgrade to 704 and focus on tier slots asap to get a full set of tier
cinder haven
was that the FB trial? maybe it was a sign
It was
glass mortar
u can catalyst 2 full sets of tier now so u might as well get 4 set asap as soon as u have gear in those slots u can upgrade to 704
glass mortar
if ur coming back late with no io and no gear ur probably going to want to run ur own key to earn crests and gear but honestly i have no idea what pugging under 10s looks like
until ur above 700 ilvl i dont think you are going to find much success trying to pug 10s anyway
the invites just wont come
stiff hawk
molten heath
Ok, farm delves, got it
I need the key to open the bountiful chest tho right ?
So i gotta farm them as well ?
glass mortar
yea
doing wq stuff gets u like 4 keys a week
maybe more now i havent bothered to count
and look for world quests that give the currency that can be made to get more keys
lfr as well of course to get some raid gear and try for tier slot
rich sparrow
leaden hazel
Is it me or is the ara kara trinket not in the vendor?
molten heath
Do you need anything to transform an item into a set item like in season 1 ?
hardy wigeon
hardy wigeon
drum machine broke
patent mirage
where is the outlaw meme
elder phoenix
maintenance today
and still no fix
to the mythic vendor diner bug
where you cant buy items even though you're resil 12 already
Nice game blizzard
glass mortar
Is it me or is the ara kara trinket not in the vendor?
believe its a bug
glass mortar
Do you need anything to transform an item into a set item like in season 1 ?
catalyst auto fills now so no u shouldnt need any items
lime lake
believe its a bug
its an egg sac so close
lime lake
glass mortar
bronze wadi
are you supposed to change your positioning with warpclaw or just play like normal
gaunt phoenix
normal
bronze wadi
word
glass mortar
yea ive seen a bunch of those
elder phoenix
i swearno fucking wonder this expansion is a doodoo
glass mortar
blizzard never beating the customer support allegations
elder phoenix
says i have the achievement
then says I need to complete all dungeons timed 12+ or higher or w/e
LOL
you could literally smell the neckbeard from the person who copy pasted this reply
glass mortar
awfully optimistic of you to assume a human interacted with the ticket in any fashion, even to copy paste an ai response
quaint mauve
are you supposed to change your positioning with warpclaw or just play like norm...
facing your target at approx a 63° N of W
daring oxide
https://i.imgur.com/MChrPt8.jpeg
it must be so frustrating as any normal player to have to talk to a brick wall 😭
especially AI slop support
glass mortar
im ngl if i read a tech support response like that id assume im playing some f2p mobile game or interacting with a company of questionable quality and not consume their product
daring oxide
your dedication is greatly appreciated
glass mortar
maybe the midnight changes make a bit more sense now
daring oxide
yeah its not just blizzard its a widespread issue
lime lake
companies realized they dont have to actually put any money into cs
glass mortar
i mean GM responses have always been a mixed bag but this is such low effort ai slop of a response its actually wild
daring oxide
everyone resorting to quickly setup llm chatbot based support
which doesn't even address any cs tickets and just generically relinks FAQs to any questions
the only way to reach a human
is to raise a ticket as a transaction issue
because blizzard's highest priority is getting people's money
lime lake
yup
daring oxide
so they'll only reply
lime lake
its a shame because i had fantastic interactions with blizzard cs in the past
daring oxide
if you raise your ticket as an issue with anything regarding money
lime lake
but those days are long gone
daring oxide
ya
when they had proper CS teams of humans
it was good
even if it took a couple or more days for a response
it felt like you had help
but now its just ai slop nonstop
until you tell them i cant give you money
then they forward you to a human
ocean lodge
i mean GM responses have always been a mixed bag but this is such low effort ai ...
Gm team took a nosedive since bfa layoffs
Before that they were always a+ in my experience
It got even worse recently
elder phoenix
tbh at this point ima have to cancel my sub and play on the bootleg version
i forgot the name of that server
or w/e
atleast even if its shit im not spending money on it
elder phoenix
To prism or to boots
mythic or heroic
ocean lodge
Mythic
elder phoenix
why prism
elder phoenix
mean heroic boots to mythic boots is like just 1% upgrade
said by someon ehere yesterday
or w/e
so ig if prism is more upgrade for you on diff spec then prism
ocean lodge
Yeah probably the obvious play
red zinc
@vivid vessel was there actually any new info in that blog or was I not the only one that felt like they didnt say anything
vivid vessel
no they said nothing
hollow creek
ive got 22.35 crit , 20.47 haste , 38,84 versa , 24,46 master , my sim wants more versa but i get penalty , i think i want more crit ? if i look att other ppl , whats your take on it
daring oxide
<@352916297262301194> was there actually any new info in that blog or was I not ...
what blog
covert kestrel
what blog
the government of france wrote a blog about the worker shortages at the french taco factory
sacre bleu!
quaint mauve
ive got 22.35 crit , 20.47 haste , 38,84 versa , 24,46 master , my sim wants mor...
ur stats look good
try lowering ur haste
in exchange for vers or crit tho
covert kestrel
ive got 22.35 crit , 20.47 haste , 38,84 versa , 24,46 master , my sim wants mor...
memes are a mirror of reality
viral bison
!macro
ornate heathBOT
Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.
viral bison
!hook
daring oxide
@vivid vessel
since u are an outlaw rogue
tell the truth
did u yoink the french jewels from the apollo gallery
in louvre
grapple up the balcony
BTE the windows open
vanish > crackshot all the jewellry out
glass mortar
they used a ladder so it was probably a shadow priest player
(no built in mobility)
(and they worship the void so like questionable morals at best??)
quaint mauve
did u yoink the french jewels from the apollo gallery
vai is a federal agent
trying to bust the true rogue
lilac wharf
If I roll into a 5 buff and KIR wouldn’t I want to wait a few before RTB as I’d reduce the duration by the new rtb buffs right?
gaunt phoenix
No just roll
you might get buffs you dont already have and not reduce anything
and if you do reduce some buffs
when those reduced buffs expire you get to roll again
covert kestrel
but farming for valor is a chore
radiant echoes
elder phoenix
radiant echoes
theres a cap on that though right?
you can only do those per week
right?
glass mortar
can do as many as u have the consumables for as far as i know
never done too many of them in a row before
quaint mauve
but farming for valor is a chore
im so happy i had 3 alts last season that i didnt. play whatsoever this season
covert kestrel
less alts = more happy in my experience lol
zealous lantern
has this trinket always stacked forever?
gaunt phoenix
what is it
zealous lantern
screams of forgotten sky
gaunt phoenix
probably
elder phoenix
im so happy i had 3 alts last season that i didnt. play whatsoever this season
OH
I DIDNT KNOW YOU CAN TRANSFER VALOR
LOL
west ridge
ok it stacks to 50
how do you stack it