outlaw

[glass mortar]

but trickster was still shit

right

unplayably so even

[ripe ibex]

no ofc

[frail veldt]

old KS was so bad for us, we just happened to be tuned well enough last season for people to ignore it

[glass mortar]

all that changed between s1 and s2 was them buffing tricksters base power up and our relative power up

no kspree changes

and suddenly trickster was super strong

it was never kspree is our point

[frail veldt]

@ripe ibex think of it like this. If we were as strong as we were last season but we had new KS in S2, and then they "reworked" it to the old one and gave it to us this season but with our current level of damage, would you still think the same way?

imagine doing the current damage we do but KS kills you

[patent mirage]

old ks was lame , it had to go

years ago

[glass mortar]

(that was s1)

current damage, with last seasons design

[ripe ibex]

ye

i’m just saying

[zealous lantern]

old ks was gamblecore

[ripe ibex]

overall

[frail veldt]

old KS

was objectively worse

[zealous lantern]

maybe i die maybe i dont

[ripe ibex]

it was worth all the death

last season

[frail veldt]

but we had seasons where we were good DESPITE it being bad

[glass mortar]

it wasnt because nobody else pays this price

[frail veldt]

we were good DESPITE KS not thanks to KS

[glass mortar]

yea better way to say it would be it had all that damage DESPITE the downside of kspree

[frail veldt]

those are different things

VERY VERY different things

[glass mortar]

we happened to be tuned very high

so high we still barely were a blip in any metric of parses

and also u died

[frail veldt]

I mean thats about as nonsense as saying we were better last season cuz the tier set mog was better

[zealous lantern]

i love how rare outlaw rogues are

makes me feel special

[frail veldt]

jason you are falling for correlation over causation haha

[ripe ibex]

yeah i know man

let me be sad

and miss the gameplay

[gaunt phoenix]

ks was better for our dps last season

[frail veldt]

new KS is innocent here

[zealous lantern]

isnt this actually good? gets buffed by coin and everything

2ppm

[sullen wyvern]

wThat too,

[ripe ibex]

but also

outlaw would absolutely be better if it was old ks

[patent mirage]

wat

[gaunt phoenix]

better dps

it's true

[ripe ibex]

much much better

[vivid vessel]

im not sure i would go back to old ks still

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/rainbow-spongebob-imagination-gif-6329618919953237016

[zealous lantern]

cringe better dps ability or badass gunbreaker ult

thats a hard choice to make

[vivid vessel]

well

[ripe ibex]

always dps

[vivid vessel]

the gun

does no damage

actually

so

[gaunt phoenix]

i simmed it once upon a time, it's just about the same assuming you can saturate the proc

[ripe ibex]

the gun shoots everything on screen

[vivid vessel]

like how come i go into a big pack

and 100% of my ks damage

is wasted

hmge

[glass mortar]

the loss of prio damage is very funny

[vivid vessel]

its more than that tho

[glass mortar]

i dont understand the attachement to some dogshit pointless hurtful design angle for ks

[vivid vessel]

in some of these packs

its just

[glass mortar]

like it cant just be a fun spell to hit that blasts

[vivid vessel]

loss of damage

.

[glass mortar]

its gotta do something negative for u

[zealous lantern]

compared to a lens?

[vivid vessel]

if the damage doesnt do prio

its useelss

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[zealous lantern]

hum

[ripe ibex]

raid only players

[frail veldt]

"engineered frustration"

they had to put effort into making it bad

it required more code most likely to have it pick targets randomly

and hit them

they went through all that process

of designing, testing, validating and still decided "yep this is how we want it"

[ripe ibex]

ye

[frail veldt]

its hard to believe sometimes

[glass mortar]

idk

[ripe ibex]

but also like man

[glass mortar]

we gave so much negative feedback about the targeting during ptr cycle

zero changes

[ripe ibex]

channels are just so terrible in this game

[zealous lantern]

does assa and sub get the same KS as we do

[ripe ibex]

they should not exist

[frail veldt]

they dont have ks

[glass mortar]

idd i hate the vibe of a channel on a spec thats gcd locked

because u cant spellqueue off it

[ripe ibex]

ye

[glass mortar]

its always awkward

[ripe ibex]

it’s so bad

[frail veldt]

nah theyre fine imo

[glass mortar]

and also its so long

[frail veldt]

channels work on casters

[zealous lantern]

wait like at all?

[ripe ibex]

i mean

[frail veldt]

correct

[ripe ibex]

not really

[zealous lantern]

thats crazy

[frail veldt]

they work better

imo

cuz you can cancel them early

without it costing you all of the spells damage

if you cancel a cast early

it does nothing...

channels are fine

[ripe ibex]

sure but it just feels bad

[frail veldt]

it really doesnt

esp if its a channel without a cd or resource cost

like if its a generator

it feels great

[ripe ibex]

i mean i do enjoy like missiles

[frail veldt]

missiles is great

void torrent is good

[ripe ibex]

but definitely awkward when you don’t clip them

[frail veldt]

mind flay same

the spell queueing is an issue yeah

but they just gotta do better

and fix that

[glass mortar]

mind flay works because the design cadence is around it

[random stirrup]

Yeah if you aren’t clipping then you are inherently a victim of spellqueue

[glass mortar]

its awkward when u hamfist them into rotations not designed for them

[craggy barn]

wtf do i take

[gleaming wyvern]

just coming back to this, but nah I'm 718 in my outlaw set, 720 in my sub gear. Just been doing the rotation for 10+ minutes on dummies and trying to get an idea of how to play it, but yeah I'm def doing something wrong lol. I'll see what the sim has for dummy dps, I know the full sim with buffs is 4.7m

[zealous lantern]

sigil

or

[random stirrup]

Also big channels that have a cd going on cooldown when you press them then have to move (because mechanic, skill issue, whatever) feel real bad

Pressing void torrent in uldaman

[glass mortar]

its okay torrent is gone

[craggy barn]

its sigil or neck i think, since i have myth crystal

guess i just wait til after raid

al this outlaw gear and im pretty much not playing outlaw the rest of the raid

[gleaming wyvern]

Hmm yeah dummy dps is 3.3m, so I'm 100% doing something fundamentally wrong I think. Want to take this into farm to play around with but also don't want to be complete dead weight when I normally do very well on sub

[quaint mauve]

send a log

[glass mortar]

p..pplayer issue?

🥹

[vivid vessel]

no i actually

low rolled

i kid you not weran

i didnt know it was possible

i just lost adr

1min30 on cd

then i lost bf

[glass mortar]

yea thats a rare one

[vivid vessel]

then i lost adr again

[covert kestrel]

hey bud if you send a log some of the outlaw vets here will look over it for you! dont worry pal outlaw is hard to learn

[glass mortar]

i had it happen one or two times this expac

the true 1%er low rolls of law

are something to behold

u only get this gameplay when u majorly fuckup normally

important to remember it can literally just happen tho

pure rng

probably lower chance then 5 buff

[craggy barn]

dinars are still just gonna be trinkets and special weapons right

[lime lake]

and boots

[zealous lantern]

you say that but i only roll 1 buff

compassgang

also when do you replace the delve belt

i can make a 727 crafted belt right now should i just do that

[gaunt phoenix]

should be better

[elder phoenix]

ngl

I hope they limit what raidbots can do

as well tbh in midnight

[gaunt phoenix]

Ok

[glass mortar]

yaaas

honestly its easier to remove our ability to optimize then it is to make the game need less optimization

blackbox gear

and ability damage

the players dont need to know these things

just equip bigger number and press whats fun

[vivid vessel]

some people

nah

im reformed

actually

[elder phoenix]

Low key i only said this to trigger you

[vivid vessel]

its fine

[elder phoenix]

https://i.imgur.com/SLy9aQQ.jpeg qq

[dawn talon]

shifting feels fine on mage

[glass mortar]

they should make it so raidbots can only do low precision sims

save the environment

[elder phoenix]

make sure to take advantage of the VANISH ---> AR + GS combo when ever it lines up

[dawn talon]

i quite like channelled spells, just not cdf and not on melees

[ripe ibex]

well that’s a lil different

[elder phoenix]

one of the reasons I never want to play DH

[ripe ibex]

wtf was that

message jumpscare

[elder phoenix]

https://i.imgur.com/ARMwVWS.jpeg

lol cuz i said the R word

[ripe ibex]

well why are you saying that!

[elder phoenix]

Channeled spells are stupid for melee or even range. One of the reasons I hate playing DH

[copper radish]

I wish everything was instant on DH. Feels weird sitting and waiting in an eye beam or the hunt cast. Like I just wanna mash buttons and blast

If you could just press it and do stuff while it still goes off that would be 🔥

[zealous lantern]

finally i can toss the stinky dive belt into the bin

[tight kernel]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[west ridge]

wait what were you going to say

[vivid vessel]

no

im reformed

[thick vigil]

Quick trinket question, I have a myth Sigil and a myth Antenna. I have a cursed stone idol in my vault and I know its good for aoe and sims better but my question is what are people preferring for m+?

[west ridge]

i feel like on use is counterintuitive to outlaw dmg profile

but im washed at outlaw so idk

if myth sigil is the soul hunter trinket @thick vigil then i would just roll with that

[harsh forge]

antenna is used more

the netherprism might be good too we’ll see what happened with dinars since outlaws probably aren’t getting that in raid

[scenic wind]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[scenic wind]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[long barn]

Question. The Fatebound opener in pin, cancel stealth, etc

Cancel aura, adr, GS

Is that used every time from stealth or just start of combat?

[harsh forge]

you can use it if you have adr and gs up at the same time as a vanish

[worldly shale]

this some french dish im too not french to understand?

[gaunt phoenix]

You use it with opener and with every vanish

because you vanish into GS, and sometimes vanish into AR GS

vanish into GS does not need a macro, but might as well use it

so when AR GS lines up you get them both at once

[unkempt smelt]

Anyone has had UI bugs since Remix? I played retail for the first time this week and sometimes my UI disappears randomly in combat and when looting mobs. The problem seems to come either from Elvui or the game itself

[tight kernel]

antenna buns now?

[long barn]

Anyone know the GS debuff time

15 sec?

[glass mortar]

16

[violet ferry]

Is veteran cudgel worth still trying to get or is it a waste of time and happiness?

[vivid vessel]

waste of time

• you wont get it

[glass mortar]

idk wasnt that hard for me to get zac

just gotta want it bad enough

[long barn]

Say we have 1 charge of vanish and ADR buff is 4sec
GS is ready and ADR is ready

I need to send 1 of the 2 “cringe” macros….

so the question do we send GS/ADR or GS/BtE then ADR solo

[gaunt phoenix]

you vanish into AR GS

[long barn]

Are there any WAs to help with this?

[gaunt phoenix]

no

[long barn]

Kk

[gaunt phoenix]

just track your cds

[long barn]

Your pin says 1.5%, with the recent coin bug fix, still 1.5?

Or now just a realized 1.5

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah about that

[long barn]

One more. Sorry bro you been super helpful.

Let’s say I have ADR buff with 8 seconds, GS down, and ADR down, do I go after the Vanish/BtE, and if that down, we hold the vanish even if it overcaps?

I notice with this tech I have like 2 vanish stacks for like 18 seconds on pull. Should I be using one before GS is back up to take advantage of the cooldown reduction?

[mighty pivot]

@wintry solar
Wordle 1,579 3/6*

🟨⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

[gaunt phoenix]

You vanish into GS every time

But if GS is somehow like 60s away then it's fine to just vanish

[quaint mauve]

if i dont see big loot in the vault

theres mossad agents after me

[fallen mural]

Guys today is national support an outlaw day. If you see an outlaw in q in a lower key. Queue up and join a brother or sister in arms.

[elder phoenix]

so i assume they havent fix'd the AR+GS bug

Or its not a bug?

[honest sparrow]

They did not fix it. There will be a pin if they do but i dont think that bug has a high prio.
Yes its a bug

[gaunt phoenix]

They probably wont cause double jeopardy is just removed in midnight

[mighty pivot]

fixed tomorrow then

[gaunt phoenix]

and ghostly strike and tier

[mighty pivot]

thanks, obama solo

[fallen mural]

!bug

[ornate heath]

[Outlaw bug Thread](#1276315296159760467 message)

[tight kernel]

am I cooked

730 claw > antenna?

[craggy barn]

i see that as a win

dont gotta go orb collecting

[frigid olive]

For those that have played the Midnight alpha, does the spec actually feel different to play now? Or it just mainly the RtB change?

[craggy barn]

its pretty different, literally no stealth window anymore

way less overall apm

like 85apm --> 65apm

[frigid olive]

Do you have to spec for ambush still or can you discard if you want?

[craggy barn]

tuning

u can still choose to do ambush ho build or not

[torpid fiber]

tbf you don't press ambush on live either

[latent panther]

Does Blizzard hate outlaw players/ the class itself?

or more generally rogues

there is genuinely no reason why anyone would take an outlaw when pushing high keys, and it doesnt seem like this is going to be addressed any time soon. Feels bad

[lime lake]

blizzard hates you personally

[strong halo]

anyone remember

beginning of season where u saw BTM all the time in keys listings

and now its frost dk / bm hunter or ur not getting an invite

[west quartz]

hey peeps, is there a video out there of outlaw gameplay in the alpha

wanting to see the changes in action 🙂

[wintry solar]

there is no Outlaw in Alpha

it got deleted

[west quartz]

why did it get deleted

was it poo poo?

[wintry solar]

Yes!

no Foreverguy will have a video soon

tomorrow I think he said

[west quartz]

ok sweet as because i legit couldnt find anything gameplay wise and it sucks

[quaint mauve]

we r fat

@wintry solar

[wintry solar]

Wordle 1579 4/6*

⬛⬛🟧⬛⬛
⬛⬛🟧⬛⬛
🟧🟧🟧🟧⬛
🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧

@mighty pivot

[craggy barn]

hmmm

[digital linden]

is antenna performing worse this reset or what is going on

[vapid sundial]

Turbo boost = more crit so antenna loses value?

[strong cargo]

Shouldn't sim bad in ST imo

In aoe other trinkets can be closer I guess

[grim spear]

actually antenna used to sim better surprise me a lot

[timid portal]

how much % miss chance u put on antenna?

[craggy barn]

20

with 0

[quick quail]

is 691 nightfall cudgel still relevant on big pulls or nah? got 730 both weapons

[robust topaz]

Is this still true with the increased item level on mythic OH?

[quaint mauve]

@vivid vessel my bad for doubting ur game bro

ur better than me ig

also no way u raid 5 days a week

4 hours a day

[mighty pivot]

Another L for popo. It also looks like it's giving you a middle finger

[jolly geyser]

Wordle 1 579 5/6*

⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟨🟨⬛⬛⬛
⬛⬛🟩🟨🟨
🟩⬛🟩🟩🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

[unreal drum]

what the f is this game man, went on break after raid 3 weeks ago (well just doing a 10 key each week) the last 3 weeks vault rewards all myth track

tldr do less get more

[vivid vessel]

I raid 1/2 on reclears

we did 6 days on prog

I kinda blasted your ass tho ..

thoughts on forgereaver tho ..

[quaint mauve]

you did WHAT

its crazy u have all 100 parses idk

like

[vivid vessel]

is it

I always have all 100 parses every tier

unless its like a super paddy boss

[quaint mauve]

i dont get how u do that much dmg on some of these bosses

[vivid vessel]

[quaint mauve]

like plexus is so aids

how r u 6 mill

gear gap bro

ill be there

once im 726

[vivid vessel]

tbf this week im like

4 ilvl over everyone

so i dont even need to get lucky

[quaint mauve]

bro i still have no SH trinket

[vivid vessel]

just avg rng will be enough

[quaint mauve]

its literally 100k increase for me

ON HEROIC

like 89k actually

i get mythic one next week

so excited

[vivid vessel]

ye

wont help tho

im gapping you by 1 milli

every boss

skill issue?

[quaint mauve]

once ur frauded overgeared parses fall

ill be there

standing above u

with my honest

[vivid vessel]

ok..

[quaint mauve]

outlaw gameplay

[quaint mauve]

youre not THAT good pal

its just the SH trinket trust

[vivid vessel]

who are you btw

this you prolly right

[desert tendon]

so bad ahahah totally washed up zac lmao bozo

[coarse parcel]

still wondering how the fuck you are 726 global

[vivid vessel]

im 727 actualy

[fallen knot]

he probably got all 717 from vault and upgraded stuff on alts

[vivid vessel]

close to

ye

i did

[fallen knot]

all season

[coarse parcel]

[fallen knot]

tryhard

[vivid vessel]

ye

indeed

[coarse parcel]

what is the thing on alt ?

[vivid vessel]

you get 720 ilvl achiev

[fallen knot]

if you have a 730

on a alt

[vivid vessel]

then when a piece is upgraded on any char

[fallen knot]

you upgrade for 10

[vivid vessel]

ye

[fallen knot]

on that slot

[coarse parcel]

THIS IS ACCOUNT WIDE?????

[vivid vessel]

i did that before super boost even

ye

[coarse parcel]

X D

[vivid vessel]

so when i got 720 on main

i stopped uipping on main

i was upping on alt first

so i banked a lot of gilded

[coarse parcel]

clever

it can't be intentional from blizzard

[vivid vessel]

eh idk

it was the same last season

[fallen knot]

probably is tho

[coarse parcel]

and do you keep all you other crest to convert everything when crest are uncapped ?

[fallen knot]

imagine you're rerolling mid season

[coarse parcel]

I did last season, but it was from a class to another

[fallen knot]

yea and with this system you're not that behind

[coarse parcel]

and I had to pay the price of 15 crest per upgrade

[vivid vessel]

Ye well you need the 720 ilvl achiev first so

[coarse parcel]

ah so it's the achievement that make it cheaper ?

make more sense then

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Otherwise you would abuse it

From start of season

Making a bunch of useless alts

At least there it's only like

A little tryhard thing you can do at the end of gearing

Tho it gained me a lot of illvl

But like my tank is also 726 Ilvl

And he didn't do alts

So idk

[coarse parcel]

I only used crest for hero/myth and had 1 myth item every week

I'm only 719

[vivid vessel]

You used gilded on hc items?

[coarse parcel]

For important one yes

weapon/trincket mostly

[vivid vessel]

Ye well

That's

[coarse parcel]

then full upgrade myth one

[vivid vessel]

Already bad

[coarse parcel]

<- clueless player right here

[vivid vessel]

Ye

You lose a lot when you do that

Cause mythic is at the very least 707

With raid vaults you can get up to 717 even

[inland cairn]

Getting higher pieces from raid slots is crazy crest save

[coarse parcel]

maybe it's easier when guild are already killing first few myth boss

[vivid vessel]

Yes

Well

Basically

I don't run out of mythic to upgrade

[random stirrup]

Raid vault mega op

[vivid vessel]

I didn't even need to craft

[coarse parcel]

I'm not playing at a good level to have raid myth track early

[vivid vessel]

But like if you want to optimize

[random stirrup]

My alt is 725 and I’ve been using him to farm discount on main

[coarse parcel]

you got prio for sword ? or just lucky roll

[random stirrup]

Obv it benefitted from discount a lot earlier

[vivid vessel]

You upgrade mythic from raid vault only
Then mythic
Then craft
Then if you are down bad noob player and don't have access to all that you can upgrade hc I guess

[coarse parcel]

bc I can understand being alone rolling for dagger but sword everyone need no?

[vivid vessel]

They wanted me to play outlaw on soul hunter so they gave me a weapon

[coarse parcel]

based

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[coarse parcel]

so you only upgrade 1 item per week (raid myth vault) and keep the spare crest, bc each week you have enough crest for 6 upgrade

but 1 myth is 3 or 4 upgrade bfore turbo iirc

[quaint mauve]

IM NOT CHINESE

[inland cairn]

that's what you take offence to?

not the 0 dps

[quaint mauve]

hes not too far from my actual ranking

so

im treading lightly

this spec is actually difficult in raid idk

[vivid vessel]

Wait really

That's litteraly the last guy

[vivid vessel]

Well

Ye kinda

But you get more than one item a week hopefully

Especially with the big dungeon thing

But ye kinda one item a week

And you pray to get 717 from vault

[coarse parcel]

ye surely more than 1 item a week

[vivid vessel]

And from raid

So you spend legit 0 gilded

[fallen knot]

i have not done tazavesh hardmode all season

and i'm full myth track items

[quaint mauve]

yeah its been a bad time in here

@vivid vessel NAH HOW DO U HAVE 100% ADR ON PLEXUS

u r cheating

[vivid vessel]

Eh

The minimum with avg rng is like 98 nowadays

[quaint mauve]

i drop like every intermission idk

[vivid vessel]

Just grapple

[quaint mauve]

do u hit the adds?

i feel like thats what fucks me

sitting back with group

[vivid vessel]

Ye unless they are behind then wtf do I care

[quaint mauve]

to hit adds that die in 2 secs

[vivid vessel]

Otherwise they are in the way

Lil grapple on adds

Lil grapple on boss

Easy enough

[quaint mauve]

interesting

surely this week is my parse week

[daring oxide]

lol i grappled straight to the boss and my guild wasn't too happy with me

'why are u skipping mechanics'

😭

why do those bloody adds exist they do nout

[vivid vessel]

Skill issue

[lament drift]

hey learnin outlaw atm, i heard you can macro ghostly strike into a couple things to free up some apm but wondered what that would be

/ how bad that is

[gaunt phoenix]

for trickster you can macro ghostly strike to everything

For fatebound is it most optimal to use vanish into ghostly strike

so you have to think about it if you play fatebound optimally

[lament drift]

thanks

[summer idol]

what stat use outlaw? i saw in archon, cele/versa but the firts one in raider io use mastery / vers and 0 cele

[gaunt phoenix]

you looked at zac who logged out in Sub gear

outlaw needs 19% haste and then the rest is mostly vers and some crit

[west ridge]

yep double daggers

and a santa suit

thats zac outlaw set

[vivid vessel]

who tf is this guy

with 0 ilvl

[vivid vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wmtfd9BHavM36uoiPqQXNo here bro

[summer idol]

idk why im hitting so low

:c

[vivid vessel]

Well you are missing like 25 ilvl for a start

[summer idol]

But hunters destroy me in all runs

[west ridge]

i mean

they are kinda suppose to if they are bm

and they outgear you

[summer idol]

Thank

[mighty pivot]

I am glad we are getting more tuning ||(for remix)||

[muted crest]

Bro, it takes this company six days to answer a ticket, and when they finally do, they just send a damn template reply. But yeah, I’m sure they’ll totally tune Outlaw during Midnight alpha and Legion Remix.

[mighty pivot]

I am fairly sure it's not the balance team (not) answering your tickets

[muted crest]

I’ll open a balance ticket next time then 😉

[mighty pivot]

please do

[zealous lantern]

are we getting any new abilities

[frail veldt]

Nah

We might use blade rush again

That's it

Otherwise they mostly took stuff away

[zealous lantern]

what did they remove besides vanish and ar cooldown

[gusty pagoda]

Where is that chestpiece transmog from?

[zealous lantern]

its the darkfuse coat probably

[frail veldt]

GS

[zealous lantern]

whats gs again

[frail veldt]

Ghostly strike

[zealous lantern]

wait what

[gusty pagoda]

Thanks, looks awesome

[frail veldt]

I'm fine with that GS is an awful ability

[zealous lantern]

oh wait bte is basically gs

[frail veldt]

No

What

Bte is a finisher

[zealous lantern]

it gives you a stacking dmg buff

or something

[frail veldt]

Yeah it does but GS was just baked into adr

When you press adr you gain 15% damage now

[zealous lantern]

thats fine

[frail veldt]

Yeah prob the biggest thing we lost was crackshot and uhuh

[zealous lantern]

current crackshot is aids

[frail veldt]

Why's that

[zealous lantern]

does not fit outlaw thematically

[frail veldt]

In what way

Just cuz you use vanish for it?

[zealous lantern]

it just does not feel like something outlaw would do

[frail veldt]

They could have fixed that by making bte just grant it

[frail veldt]

In what way

[zealous lantern]

im sure they will figure it out

[frail veldt]

Well sadly they kinda kept the theme of it

So you might not like it

If that was your complaint about it

[zealous lantern]

i like the gameplay i just dont like that its tied to vanish

[frail veldt]

Yeah they could have fixed that easily

Also outlaw is no longer pirate themed too

So that's a thing

[zealous lantern]

its more gun heavy which i like

[frail veldt]

It's the same

Still just bte and PS and KS.

Mostly just took theme out and didn't replace it with anything

They reused an old legendary for our apex talents

And called it a day haha

[zealous lantern]

isnt the theme just more gun focus

[frail veldt]

No it's just less pirate haha

[zealous lantern]

how

[frail veldt]

They didn't give us more theme

[glass mortar]

shooting ur gun nonstop and gaining an entire other layer of proc to react to?

[frail veldt]

So they removed crackshot, removed green skin wickers, removed fast grapple, couple other pirate named talents

[glass mortar]

crackshot feels more like an outlaw cd then anything outlaw has ever done

literally the only pain point was being tied to vanish

[gaunt phoenix]

any anti-crackshot opinions will be challenged relentlessly in here

[frail veldt]

They didn't add more gun abilities or anything

I'd be fine if they replaced it

[glass mortar]

i will not stand for slander

outlaw during crackshot window plays more like an outlaw then at any other point in the rotation

😠

people just angry because it starts with a vanish

[zealous lantern]

im a crackshot enjoyer i just dont like the vanish part like i said

[frail veldt]

Well now it's gone entirely haha

[glass mortar]

shoulda just tied it to kspree or something

[zealous lantern]

honestly? double all the buffs in potency and remove rng manipulation

make outlaw truly gamblecore

[frail veldt]

Ew

[patent mirage]

what we need is an actual shotgun

[zealous lantern]

true

[frail veldt]

Well we might be more gamba now

Hard to say yet

But there doesn't seem to be much gameplay around our procs

[patent mirage]

even dhs got ranged now

we need even more ranged stuff

[frail veldt]

They just happen or they don't

[glass mortar]

best i can do is kspree with shorter range then auto attack

😠

[patent mirage]

pull out a m60

[glass mortar]

its hard to aim pistols dontuknow

[patent mirage]

and call it american magic

[west ridge]

you know outlaw with double guns just shooting and the bullets going everywhere is pretty faithful to real life lore

[patent mirage]

Outlaw the new evoker?

[silk gale]

⛽ blade rush go brrrrrrr

[glass mortar]

i wish it went more brrr

at least it has a sickass animation in midnight

[merry venture]

Well i would like if you could change OL between Melee or mid range. Exp. You can turn Sinister Strike and dispatch to a range attack and equip a rifle or something like that so you can have the wild west style of life

p.s. The rifle could be just for the stats and atackpower scaling and the skills are pistols

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[zinc briar]

its time to abandon outlaw?

i have to do Dim in MM

should i change to assa? subt?

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[zinc briar]

Assa is easier than subt right?

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[zinc briar]

i dont play subt of assa since... 2020

[vivid vessel]

Sub will be better on platforms

Assa will do more P3 boss damage

Assa will be int in P1 tho for add damage while sub do well

[zinc briar]

pff gonna be a disaster

i dont even know the fight

0 motivatiom simce outlaw sucks

ill have to change embellishments, stats etc...

lovely

[small nacelle]

Is Bladefurry bugged atm? i feel like im only dealing ST during BF sometimes

[vivid vessel]

If your main. Target dies it doesn't cleave the damage

If you do old content

Where you one shot everything

[small nacelle]

old content shouldnt be TWW 70 - 80 with Dragonflight Mythic gear, right? ':D

im dealing much dmg for sure but its no old content, right?

[vivid vessel]

No

[small nacelle]

mhmm kinda sucks then ':D

hope it will get fixed when ill catch up with new gear

[glass mortar]

if ur just fighting npcs out in the world their time to die is pretty low while questing and ur hit that kills them also wont blade flurry so

that could be 1/3rd of ur attacks at a target even in the open world

[small nacelle]

mhmm probably thats the problem.. so i need to nerf me a lil ':D

[glass mortar]

unfortunate side effect of them fixing a bug where dead targets were eating into BFs target cap

[small nacelle]

ewww

i mean better have it as it is now then ':D

[glass mortar]

yup

[patent mirage]

spaghoot code

[glass mortar]

im sure one day theyll fix this part of the bug too

give it a few years

[blissful idol]

!guide

[ornate heath]

Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue

[atomic magnet]

Trying to setup my Cooldown manager and i'm not sure which of the buffs i can throw away and which i should keep

actually nevermind i throw them all away XD

[timid portal]

u need wa for rtb

[atomic magnet]

I dont want to rely on WA given they wont work in midnight anymore

[timid portal]

ye but for now u need it

bcs u dont see container buffs

[covert kestrel]

well the roll logic will be a lot different than right now so its completely different.

[timid portal]

also the ub wa

[vivid vessel]

i mean

you can play without weak auras

as long as you remember to reroll after kir

@atomic magnet

and i dont even see you tracking kir

so you might not even be playing kir

so then its legit whatever

and for ub better get used to it now cause that aint changing with midnight

[atomic magnet]

I didnt track it because i was still in my Lemix specc which i used to lvl up.

[covert kestrel]

putting the unseen in the unseen blade

[atomic magnet]

It should at this moment perhaps be noted i do not intend to push giga high keys with her this season. All +10 will be the biggest what i'll do but i have to get completly used to Outlaw again as i have not touched the specc for like 2 expansions

btw did i see correctly in the rotation section of the wowhead guide that slice and dice is bait and i should basicly never press it in M+?

[covert kestrel]

remove it from ya bars

[gaunt phoenix]

snd is automatically casted by dispatch

but you do press it sometimes

in downtime

[covert kestrel]

if youre a dirty exploiter!

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-stare-stare-smh-capybara-side-eye-side-eye-gif-9371644960707312849

[jolly geyser]

Just remember that outlaw is bad cause zac and wowtoxic are doing high keys. Blame them

[frail veldt]

Well our entire spec is different

They made the spec a lot easier due to removing was

[drifting depot]

Hiya guys, what’s our best artifact line in remix?

Sorry if this has been asked before

[stuck timber]

yo hi

how is outlaw looking in midnight? anyone had a chance to try it?

I dropped it in season 3 because of the uptime like I constantly need to hit or be in stealth and it was impossible in some raid bosses and I was losing dps. I think its removed right? underhanded upperhand I mean. Totally new playstyle.

[covert kestrel]

#midnight-outlaw

[stuck timber]

thanks didnt see the channel

[vivid vessel]

@keen belfry

I fucked up tho i still have 10 to spend and i cant cause i cba farming gilded on alt to craft double ring to have the ring cost thing

[spare lake]

How much should I be simming at like 717 iLvl

For st

[keen belfry]

you are the same ilvl i will be AFTER turboboost man FUCK U

[vivid vessel]

🫃

[frail veldt]

You can check by simming yourself

[spare lake]

Yes lol I’m aware I’m just curious if I’m going in the right direction

Sim about 5.3 for st

[mighty pivot]

if it's going up it's the right direction

[zealous lantern]

behold

1 proc per week

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[strong bolt]

hey gang, are we able to evasion the slam on first boss of priory the way we can on the mini boss?

[shy pecan]

It is your duty to queue into a +17 and try it

for science

[thorny zinc]

when I tried it didnt work

thought it would because same animation but got owned

[jolly geyser]

alpha?

[vivid vessel]

no

you?

[jolly geyser]

nah,not this time

[strong halo]

yall watching zacs key?

its wild a monk tank can hit 30M in dps burst

but we cant

[tight kernel]

Yo Zac hacking? wtf ilvl

He’s just to efficient man

[lime lake]

most efficient man in the world

[vivid vessel]

https://www.twitch.tv/zac__________________/clip/VenomousSteamyRadishYouDontSay-je3herPxrcbh03TV thoughts

[wide coral]

thats crazy

[glass mortar]

outlaw vs outclaw whatd u expect

get outclawed noob

tbh i wonder if feral has the best scaling in the game at 20 targets

uncapped rip is kinda bonkers

[vivid vessel]

i even was 6 buff the whole pack

waht can you even do

[glass mortar]

idk if u were playing the on use crit trinket u could probably peak at like 23m or so there

might be able to dethrone ur brm

[keen belfry]

Yeah why is feral huge pulls so op

I hit 41 same pull at 707 without a clue of what I was really doing

Good biting

[glass mortar]

pretty sure its rip doing most of the heavy lifting

just a strong bleed that doesnt have any target falloff afaik?

i assume it stops scaling at 20 like basically every aoe but up to 20 its pretty wild

[spare lake]

What’s the add on that shows spell/ cast queue

Like in the button right of that clip

[vivid vessel]

https://wago.io/b9euX-znp

oh tahts gone in midngiht

crazy

what a shit expac

you are going to be watching streamers and have no idea what they are even pressing

blizzard actually just ruining the game eh

[keen belfry]

oh yeah will the details tracker even work

[vivid vessel]

no

xd

[quaint mauve]

play a better class

[tepid leaf]

Game bugged so i introduce to you the new outlaw

and yes they still go on my back

[daring oxide]

Man I wish I had this colour version

[tepid leaf]

The weapons or Armor?

[fresh acorn]

Macroing GS is bad in fatebound right?

outside of the AR one?

[vapid sundial]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1422618498991132914/image-7.gif

[vapid sundial]

making coaching harder too

crazy

[quaint mauve]

we won’t need coaching bc we’re all gonna be pressing the same 2 buttons

[grim spear]

finally

[wintry solar]

I actually just had a dream where blizz brought back pre dragonflight era borrowed power and everyone was SO hyped because the acquisition was super easy.

And in the blue post at the end, it said that Outlaw players dont get to take advantage of all the new systems and they're held back.

[torpid fiber]

I actually just had a dream where blizz brought back pre dragonflight era borrowed power and everyone was SO hyped because the acquisition was super easy.

And in the blue post at the end, it said that Outlaw players dont get to take advantage of all the new systems and they're held back.

[wintry solar]

And they're banned from having fun, but they went back on it and dialed the fun back.

[quaint mauve]

i had a dream where i fell through a frozen lake in my car and drowned

man u just reminded me

i never fucking got

naszuro or whatever

on my evoker

oh my god

@wintry solar u ruined my day

lowkey ima play my presvoker today

[frail veldt]

I still can't even get a champ track version

Shits fucked

[quaint mauve]

bro….

[grim spear]

lol that looks like remix gap

[quaint mauve]

i’ve had champ track since like week 1

[frail veldt]

Proud of you

I lose rolls every week

On multiple difficulties

Or just don't see them drop

[quaint mauve]

i haven’t seen a leather version drop at a higher level tho

[vague cape]

have you tried pastel de nata? sounds like the rich flavour and texture would get you out of this slump of being smoked by the tank

[quaint mauve]

that’s the issue

[frail veldt]

Game kinda sucks ngl

[quaint mauve]

i can’t even roll

[smoky lotus]

I didnt have any version of the boots until our first m soul hunters kill last week

[quaint mauve]

im in the worst timeline

im lvling a priest in classic

[wintry solar]

Oh how you have fallen from grace

How's wand simulator treating you?

[glass mortar]

is it at least hardcore

😠

[mighty pivot]

@wintry solar
Wordle 1,580 5/6*

⬛⬛🟨⬛⬛
⬛🟩⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟩🟩🟨⬛
⬛🟩🟩⬛🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

[grim spear]

what's this?

[mighty pivot]

my wordle results

[torpid fiber]

Wordle 1,580 3/6

⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩⬛⬛🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Owned

[quaint mauve]

ye

still boring

[covert kestrel]

yeah but is this tomorrow cause its still only today here but tomorrow for you

i dont know how wordle works worldwide

[torpid fiber]

based on local time

[covert kestrel]

Wordle 1,579 5/6*

⬛⬛⬛🟩🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

fuck me i guess

[ocean lodge]

still no outlaw buffs, huh

hilarious.

[fallen mural]

No too busy balancing the game....on REMIX

LOL

[wintry solar]

The real 11.2 content

[fallen mural]

At least we can look at the tier set design and see how much they care about rogue in general

big doo doo

[hybrid crown]

outlaw now does 20% more damage with our artifact abilities

huge

[grim spear]

I am BATMAN

[covert kestrel]

more like BADman amiright

[fallen mural]

ya like 1980's "bad"man

LOL

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/greasestain-woody-dap-up-dapping-toy-story-gif-16829324021208675735

[fallen mural]

only one looks like it came from a vendor in goldshire inn

A common man amongst gods haha

Actually it looks more like robin, than batman LOL

[quaint mauve]

tbf all the midnight sets r ugly

[strong halo]

Is there a way to check how many pulls on average it takes guilds to kill bosses

Like an overall stat

Someone’s telling me fract prog was harder than loomie but I can’t find overall stats

[gaunt phoenix]

https://progstats.io/tier/44-manaforge-omega

[strong halo]

Ty goat goat

[fallen mural]

i mean im not going to say they're amazing but comparitive to rogue they are amazing haha

[wintry solar]

Wordle 1580 4/6*

⬛⬛🟦⬛⬛
🟦🟧⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟧🟧🟦⬛
🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧

@mighty pivot

[frail veldt]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[frail veldt]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[magic shoal]

can anyone explain the outlaw bug with AR from stealth? is it still in the game and do i need the cancel stealth?
I noticed I wasn't able to use subterfuge cheapshots after using the macro

[quaint mauve]

are you macroing a trinket

[blissful idol]

big

[thin fiber]

!log

[shell fossil]

red man's shoulders are based on the savage glad set from wrath lmao

[tropic zephyr]

this ?https://wow.zamimg.com/modelviewer/live/webthumbs/transmog/1/1/30/798.webp

i don't see it

[shell fossil]

looks different on human male model

they're about the same size

[daring oxide]

aye the new rogue set looks so bad art wise lmao

[worldly shale]

i kinda like it but i feel like it will only work on human xd

like i cant imagine using a single piece on my troll

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[wintry solar]

I don't have dreadblades on my bar

You did this

[shell fossil]

is fatal flourish actually value in keys?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah

[shell fossil]

man, even with adrenaline rush uptime i guess it's needed

im goofing in 13s and wanted to see if we could keep thief's vers with ld/sleight

[gaunt phoenix]

FF is like 28% of your total energy income, prob worth more than 3% vers

[shell fossil]

yikes, ye that's not moving

ld/sleight definitely feels a little better if you don't die

[glass mortar]

it it only 28% of our energy income, last time i checked mine in raidbots it was like 40%

but yea FF is pretty gud

would not recommend dropping

(it was awhile ago i checked tho)

[gaunt phoenix]

like 3k out of 11k

[glass mortar]

next expac itll be less! ez flex point

[chrome iris]

Heya, I've been struggling with Outlaw for the better part of this content, even my best parses are a lot worse than other people in my guild can do with half as much (which, looking at the logs, is not only a "me problem").
For the last two bosses, if WClogs is worth anything, sub and assa perform a LOT better an I usually gravitate towards sub, because I just hate the assa playstyle. Yet when I tried picking it up (again), I feel like I'm too old for this, the complexity is insane.
Can anyone counsel me on whether I should simply stick to OL (and be benched/substitute for our assa until content is clear), invest a bunch of frustrating time into learning sub or simply bite it and play assa?

[glass mortar]

if ur progging the last 2 bosses mythic outlaw is a carry spec

as in ur raid group is carrying u

especially on last fight this season, worst fight for outlaw probably in decades

if u can play sub id recommend it

if ur group lets u play outlaw tho go for it

[chrome iris]

https://tenor.com/view/triste-isolado-pensando-sad-isolated-gif-11165084073573897086

I won't be taken as OL for prog, only for rekills later

[glass mortar]

outlaw is bad this season. theres fights its just bad on

dimi it is literally a carry

🥹

you do next to nothing useful on the fight with ur profile unfortunatly

[gaunt phoenix]

This is the worst outlaw raid tier in a very long time

[zealous plinth]

!w2a

[glass mortar]

^

[zealous plinth]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[chrome iris]

It is and I feel so bad...

The spec is awesome, it's like the most agile and active of the 3 (and probably most classes even), fun to play and versatile... but useless.

[chrome iris]

I tried it but it's... really, really hard witha LOT of "ifs" and stuff. I think I don't even have enough keys to bind for all eventualities (and certainly not the brain capacity lol).
Think I'll just plug out my brain and play assa for the last 2...

[vivid vessel]

we have killed dimensius like 7 times or so

and outlaw is still a liability

on the fight

after a bunch of nerfs to the boss

and like 20 ilvl gained since prog

and 9% damage buff

hmge

[glass mortar]

its hard to imagine them making a boss worse for law then dimi

regardless of laws tuning even

truly legendary end boss

[chrome iris]

Why? Having at least like what, 4 downtimes where you probably drop your AR for a good minute (not counting in the mechanics which make you leave the abysmal small boss range for a longer period of time) sounds totally reasonable for a class designed to attack constantly /s

They should've just made us mid range already. Give us pistol builds.

[glass mortar]

🥹

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[vivid vessel]

thats not even the worse

[glass mortar]

fight with light cleave but only cleave if u dont give up st for it (we give up a massive amount), burst adds, burst phases with damage amps, multitude of forced downtimes that "reset" your buffs and whatnot like a fresh fight that lines up decently with actual cds

this is a fight of all time for sure

[vivid vessel]

the fight is designed around bursting after dwontime

you come down and have to nuke adds

you come down and have a damage amp

etc

[chrome iris]

Oh yeah right... I always gotta laugh when looking at the add DPS...

[slim relic]

Has anyone gotten the Hidden Artifact Appearance from Lemix AKA Better Thunderfury?

[hasty warren]

isn't obtainable via a quesline ?

[slim relic]

In retail u need to get bindings from 2 dungeons then do a questline

But afaik there is no info on how it works in Lemix, and I've run those dungeons 60+ times without any drops

[hybrid crown]

Yeah maybe we will see them in a later phase

[slim relic]

Man I hope so, I want this mog so bad

[pastel sierra]

You can just get it on retail

After lemix

Its really quick

[hasty warren]

still no cuddle

[slim relic]

@pastel sierra What if I never got the Artifact weapon in Retail? Guide says you need level 5 Artifact weapon..

[pastel sierra]

I mean you need the base artifact weapon

Which is doing the intro quest for legion plus the few quests to choose your artifact

And then u run the dungeons for the bindings

[slim relic]

allright I'll try, thx bro

[hardy wigeon]

It’s so easy on retail

Done it in about an hour or so

[slim relic]

@hardy wigeon did u have to get the artifact weapon, or did you have it already?

[hardy wigeon]

No, just did a quest line in dalaran

[rotund haven]

Any updates on outlaw changes for midnight?

[gaunt phoenix]

nothin

[rotund haven]

F

[surreal coral]

Hopefully they bring back old killing spree

[mighty pivot]

ban this guy

[grim spear]

ban this guy

[gaunt palm]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ocean lodge]

no, really, where the fuck are the outlaw buffs

like yay, you nuked dark ranger bm, but like lol

[hardy thicket]

Pretty sure they feel done with tuning for this expac

[quaint mauve]

u still believe buffs r gonna happen

[serene brook]

there is a chance in 11.2.7 but very very small

until midnight no point to adjust anything

no s4 so

[quaint mauve]

if they didnt do anything in 11.2.5

then i dont see it happening

we got a bug fix

good enough

[serene brook]

true

[rotund haven]

What was the bug fix?

[quaint mauve]

fatebound coins

[cinder haven]

Buff GS

[quaint mauve]

heads wasnt giving as much dmg as it was saying

[quaint mauve]

[cinder haven]

It would work tbh

[quaint mauve]

make it buff BF

and id be content

[cinder haven]

We mainly need ST/prio tho?

And uncapped aoe but that ain’t happening

[quaint mauve]

our prio sucks bc KS tho

no?

make KS hit only ur main target

[cinder haven]

That’s part of the problem yes

[quaint mauve]

theres so many fixes

yet they dont fix

they dont care

[cinder haven]

But our st just plain sucks too

[quaint mauve]

nothingburger class

xd

[glass mortar]

our prio would suck if ks hit the primary target

because our ST is dog and even more dog if ur in an aoe build (which u always are in m+)

[vivid vessel]

you think so ?

we ahve like

[glass mortar]

kspree is just icing on the cake

[vivid vessel]

the lowest aoe

ever

aswell

[glass mortar]

well we need both

[quaint mauve]

15% aura buff

[glass mortar]

feel like our st profile is more behind the stack then our aoe profile tho

[vivid vessel]

idk i dont lose against my tank in st

[cinder haven]

We have ok aoe up to our cap maybe

[vivid vessel]

no we dont

[glass mortar]

ok but them buffing ur aoe isnt going to not make u lose to ur brm when hes doing 30m dps zac

[serene brook]

play uncapped bladerush

[glass mortar]

r u expecting to hit 30m dps as a flat line target capped spec

[cinder haven]

Do you lose to tank on 5-8t?

[vivid vessel]

i wasnt losing like that in s2 weran

at the end of a big pack i would start to catch up

rn you just

[glass mortar]

was any tank as busted as brm is dps wise this season