Wonder if Ryu is close to 100% haste
#outlaw
copper radish
vapid sundial
How do you know
mighty pivot
how do you know
vapid sundial
Hm?
wintry solar
hes in acherus
mighty pivot
have we seen popo and ryukage in the same room?
wintry solar
yes
wintry solar
I was one of the nicer ones to ryu
mighty pivot
how did that work out
vapid sundial
I tbjbn tolerating ryu
red zinc
Assa channel unironically has an ai user posting shit
copper radish
I was one of the nicer ones to ryu
Well u both cook the same way sooo
copper radish
No comment
copper radish
Me? Unmmm a few
wintry solar
your honor I rest my case
copper radish
It should ngl it was fun
mighty pivot
popo you bring up uhuh every other day
copper radish
It would be fun now if it wasn’t a cap stone and was easier to pick
wintry solar
popo you bring up uhuh every other day
not true
copper radish
Ima laugh when midnight reworks take vanish out of the equation and UHUH finally gone for Popo
wintry solar
dude
mighty pivot
wintry solar
yeah
copper radish
LMAO
mighty pivot
aren't 139 times enough
wintry solar
certified uhuh hater and proud
copper radish
CAUGHT IN 4K
frail veldt
Ima laugh when midnight reworks take vanish out of the equation and UHUH finally...
theyre replace it with something he hates anyway
vapid sundial
wintry solar
Ima laugh when midnight reworks take vanish out of the equation and UHUH finally...
dw, we're getting utility
copper radish
theyre replace it with something he hates anyway
Always gonna be complaints 😆
wintry solar
mighty pivot
+5 tbh
copper radish
dw, we're getting utility
Bro don’t we have enough utility already??
wintry solar
theyre replace it with something he hates anyway
naw
wintry solar
Bro don’t we have enough utility already??
in pvp yes
indigo token
Bro don’t we have enough utility already??
lust
vapid sundial
Literally every other day at minimum
wintry solar
what we have in pve blows
vapid sundial
frail veldt
I like how in any of those screenshots you dotn even explain why you dont like uhuh hahaha
copper radish
Rogue should bring some type of raid buff tbh
frail veldt
Rogue should bring some type of raid buff tbh
atrophic?
copper radish
Nah like player buffs
vapid sundial
Dmg taken is a player buff
copper radish
Didn’t we used to have one back in the day
frail veldt
I mean a defensive raid buff is still a raid buff
vapid sundial
copper radish
An offensive raid buff**
frail veldt
paladins have the same
vapid sundial
We never got it
copper radish
Bring back expose armor too
vapid sundial
Never went live
ocean lodge
Ima laugh when midnight reworks take vanish out of the equation and UHUH finally...
teehee
frail veldt
bro
copper radish
And make it passive on finishers so it always resets
copper radish
😆
glass mortar
i mean
frail veldt
fuck no
ocean lodge
bring back riposte
glass mortar
two of the classes in the game have debuffs u apply to targets
vapid sundial
We had a party buff that reduced our partys cds based off every cp spent
mighty pivot
Didn’t we used to have one back in the day
how far back? rogues have had crit, attack speed, phys amp, crit debuff and so many things
glass mortar
and they r both pretty good and its a strong raid debuff
vapid sundial
But it got removed fast
glass mortar
a third class also has this mechanic but it isnt auto applied
frail veldt
two of the classes in the game have debuffs u apply to targets
they apply on every form of damage though hahaha
glass mortar
and its the worst
copper radish
how far back? rogues have had crit, attack speed, phys amp, crit debuff and so m...
Atk speed would be nice
glass mortar
i mean u could easily do that with an expose armor
wintry solar
I swear I think it was crit
frail veldt
yeah and they could easily fuck it up
glass mortar
the thing about an expose armor is its identical to "increases physical damage taken"
frail veldt
cuz blizzard makes mistakes like that
glass mortar
uhuh
vapid sundial
Careful
frail veldt
wait @wintry solar why dont you like uhuh
vapid sundial
You're gonna summon popo
wintry solar
wait <@530563212093947914> why dont you like uhuh
I dont find adr looping with subt fun
frail veldt
thats not what I asked
I asked
why
you dont like it
you just restated that you dont like it
wintry solar
why does it have to be deeper than that
copper radish
you just restated that you dont like it
He doesn’t like the vanish in rotation
vapid sundial
We would loop with or without uhuh
wintry solar
idc about vanish
copper radish
Old school just wants to stand and bang
wintry solar
im neutral about vanish
frail veldt
why does it have to be deeper than that
why do opinions need to have driving factual reasons that influence them to forward discussion about the topic? idk no reason
copper radish
Don’t make me search about ur vanish position
keen belfry
guys how would i look at a warlock log in aoe and help him?
my warlock friend is struggling in m+ rn
vapid sundial
Tell him to go bm
wintry solar
Don’t make me search about ur vanish position
I clarified its about subt
vapid sundial
Ez
spare lake
Tell him to reroll arc mage
copper radish
guys how would i look at a warlock log in aoe and help him?
Tell him GL
random stirrup
Big ruination big number wowie
vapid sundial
No
wintry solar
why do opinions need to have driving factual reasons that influence them to forw...
I dont think having the expectaion for 100% adr uptime is good for the spec
vapid sundial
Only big thing is me
frail veldt
I dont think having the expectaion for 100% adr uptime is good for the spec
so its not about UHUH its about high adr uptime
wintry solar
its both
keen belfry
on first pull halls he had 22 casts of rain of fire in 2:16 (gather time etc etc)
sjele big blater warlock had 26 casts in 1:20
glass mortar
its about how we get high adr uptime
frail veldt
so if adr had like a 1.5min cd and there was no UHUH and we had 90% adr uptime youd still hate it
vapid sundial
on first pull halls he had 22 casts of rain of fire in 2:16 (gather time etc etc...
Maybe ask the warlock discord
glass mortar
u get high adr uptime via extending it with vanish/stealth. when the game arbritrarily forces u to not do these things u drop out of the loop
frail veldt
okay so you dont like the extending of the adr buff through good cdr management
glass mortar
thats why its "about" uhuh
spare lake
Just make rtb roll 4 buffs every time and give us a dps increase
copper radish
What if finishers extended ADR instead of vanishing
vapid sundial
Remove bt
glass mortar
uhuh is just breath in our own flavor
unkempt dew
Outlaw needs more guns
glass mortar
and i hate breath too
unkempt dew
That’s it
copper radish
Like added time to ADR every finisher
spare lake
Hate breathing too
unkempt dew
Everything will be fine after a few more guns
vapid sundial
copper radish
Imagine finishing a key with 30min ADR buff like we used to with SND back in shadowlands
frail veldt
hahaha
copper radish
I’d be okay with that lol
wintry solar
the perfect solution has dropped
frail veldt
which one is that
cinder haven
frail veldt
what?
copper radish
I cooked??
glass mortar
yea i mean at this point im in camp reduce ar uptime back to pre dfs3 levels, or increase it higher
frail veldt
you dont like uhuh pausing adr
wintry solar
it was sarcasm jc
glass mortar
to make it feel less punishing
wintry solar
god no I dont actually want that LMAO
random stirrup
There just needs to be a failsafe for downtime or mechanics that force you to drop it
copper radish
Why not that solves ur UHUH problem
vapid sundial
The actual fix is to just play legion remix and forget retail exists
frail veldt
yea i mean at this point im in camp reduce ar uptime back to pre dfs3 levels, or...
I am of the opinion that adr uptime isnt the problem and its the disparity between how the spec feels with and without adr up
wintry solar
and creates entirely new ones
copper radish
and creates entirely new ones
How so elaborate
glass mortar
you just explained adr uptime being the issue in more words
spare lake
Let outlaw dual wield 2h swords and our trinkets become guns
glass mortar
😠
frail veldt
you just explained adr uptime being the issue in more words
adr uptime is a symptom of a problem
glass mortar
adr uptime is an issue because the spec feels like turboshit without it yes
frail veldt
the problem being that outlaw feels AWFUL without adr
glass mortar
thats always been why adr uptime was an issue
vapid sundial
I am of the opinion that adr uptime isnt the problem and its the disparity betwe...
Correct.
glass mortar
yes thats the same thing
cinder haven
Cdr spec
copper radish
Just make ADR 100% uptime and passive GG problem solved
covert kestrel
Thursday is gonna be so fuckin funny
spare lake
Bring back 1s restless blades
cinder haven
Delete restless blades then
frail veldt
adr uptime isnt the issue
glass mortar
thats a new problem invented in s3 df tho
frail veldt
its that no adr SUCKS ASS
wintry solar
How so elaborate
it turns adr into a button that gens max CP every now and then
glass mortar
yes
covert kestrel
Delete restless blades then
Thursday is gonna be so fuckin funny
glass mortar
they made no adr uptime suck ass when they added uhuh and the adr uptime minigame
copper radish
it turns adr into a button that gens max CP every now and then
Whenever u need it cause adr always up
glass mortar
hence why we say its the issue
frail veldt
they made no adr uptime suck ass when they added uhuh and the adr uptime minigam...
yeah but they didnt have to
spare lake
I can’t tell if everyone in here is crashing out, trolling or we’re actually communicating
frail veldt
thats an isolated mistake on blizzards part
you can have high adr uptime
and make non adr not suck
glass mortar
I can’t tell if everyone in here is crashing out, trolling or we’re actually com...
all of the above
frail veldt
completely separate
wintry solar
Whenever u need it cause adr always up
yeha but I mean why even have it as a button
copper radish
Delete restless blades then
Pls don’t delete this it’s too good even nerfed in PvP lol
cinder haven
Thursday is gonna be so fuckin funny
Whatever they come up with someone will be wildly disappointed
frail veldt
Thursday is gonna be so fuckin funny
is that when alpha and the rework first pass comes out
covert kestrel
is that when alpha and the rework first pass comes out
Yes
wintry solar
I've come to conclusions in my head and it cant get worse than that
cinder haven
Maybe
copper radish
I've come to conclusions in my head and it cant get worse than that
lol see u Thursday
covert kestrel
Whatever they come up with someone will be wildly disappointed
I'm wagering on closer to everyone being wildly disappointed, maybe Guy has some optimism but not even sure that will hold
inner meadow
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
cinder haven
I don’t think it’s 100% certain that we get to see any outlaw changes on Thursday
wintry solar
Mewo argues just to argue fr
lethal oak
I expect them to reduce rogue to two specs and encourage outlaw refugees to play BM hunter
cinder relic
I don’t think it’s 100% certain that we get to see any outlaw changes on Thursda...
Correct
copper radish
I don’t think it’s 100% certain that we get to see any outlaw changes on Thursda...
Last phase of alpha or first of beta lol
vapid sundial
Outlaw Rogue
We've heard your feedback loud and clear.
It's was akng conversation internally, yet the team has decided the best course is removing outlaw and replacing it with a modified version of the tank rogue spec from Season of Discovery.
wintry solar
I respect it tbh Mewo
wintry solar
I don’t think it’s 100% certain that we get to see any outlaw changes on Thursda...
they say class changes during phase 1
glass mortar
id play tank rogue
copper radish
they say class changes during phase 1
Phase 1 of midnight
wintry solar
alpha
glass mortar
covert kestrel
I don’t think it’s 100% certain that we get to see any outlaw changes on Thursda...
Def not 100% but outlaw being the poster child of complex specs they want to reduce I wouldn't be surprised if we were addressed early
vapid sundial
we aint gettin another
We don't have a mail tank besides classic shaman
cinder haven
You are just setting yourself up for disappointment if you fully expect news on Thursday
glass mortar
it shulda been evoker
wintry solar
My money is on half the rework being implemented
vapid sundial
So I expect another leather tank
glass mortar
copper radish
Def not 100% but outlaw being the poster child of complex specs they want to red...
We are gonna be the new blizz CD tracking class example 😆
“You guys gotta turn on our new system to track ur new buff” 😆
covert kestrel
You are just setting yourself up for disappointment if you fully expect news on ...
Idc about the changes I just want to make sure I'm around here for when they drop, it's going to be so spicy
vapid sundial
Slow mode more like it.
cinder haven
We made all outlaw cds and buffs only trackable with blizzard default ui
wintry solar
Restless Blades is an active cooldown now
cinder haven
Otherwise no changes
copper radish
Restless Blades is an active cooldown now
Restless crew***
Watch that come back for a hot min and then be gone again
cinder haven
Idc about the changes I just want to make sure I'm around here for when they dro...
It’ll be spicy here on Thursday even if they don’t drop, don’t worry
lethal oak
They should make RtB like a slot machine with a chance to instantly reset the CD and your damage is purely based on rolls
vapid sundial
Otherwise no changes
"Hey, sorry yall. We only spat on your food but we meant to piss in it too, so we've decided your extra buff chance with rtb is mastery weighted"
wintry solar
RtB is just Yahtzee
glass mortar
give me 3 choice nodes for rtb
vapid sundial
Weighted dice where we always land atleast 2 but less chance for 5
glass mortar
1 thats entirely passive no buffs no dice, you play combat rogue (its 48 apm, the highest of classic wow) and sucks
1 that is current RtB with a juiced up CtO
and one that just rerolls ur dice automatically on cd but makes it not pressable
wintry solar
rtb but it makes peggle pop up on your screen and you have to clear the level to gain 1000% dmg increase
covert kestrel
RtB should just become a cd that is a % dmg increase and no more individual buffs or rolling logic
cinder relic
People are for sure building themselves into a frenzy to be disappointed
vapid sundial
1 that is current RtB with a juiced up CtO
Similar to what I said then lol
lethal oak
One of the roll combos also instantly kills you
vapid sundial
People are for sure building themselves into a frenzy to be disappointed
I don't think so. I think we're just yapping
I don't think we expect anything
But being dissatisfied
cinder haven
People are for sure building themselves into a frenzy to be disappointed
Yup yup, and we’ll be here to witness it on Thursday. It will be great
glass mortar
the only thing possibly more dissapointing then not getting any changes on thursday, will be if we get changes
at least to some of the people in here
💅
mighty pivot
vapid sundial
Kir gone!
vapid sundial
Second one feels like trying to copy the fame of the first
cinder relic
Having extra talent points in the class tree is gonna be huge
Every build gets vigor now 
covert kestrel
the only thing possibly more dissapointing then not getting any changes on thurs...
Either they nuke the spec like I'm guessing, and we get to shit on it for months, or they don't and we get to shit post about being forgotten for months. WIN WIN
glass mortar
vapid sundial
Winning is so fucking funny to me tho
lethal oak
Prepare for 300 energy outlaw, it's the only change
vapid sundial
'junk'
glass mortar
its funny how unimpactful more points in the class tree is for us
more points in the spec tree tho...
vapid sundial
True
mighty pivot
300 energy outlaw but you only regenerate energy by channeling KS
frail veldt
A lot of classes don’t get any damage from it
id prefer this
gaining utility
is more op
glass mortar
it should make gameplay marginally less painful
glass mortar
but u arent getting any new damage toolkit tools
frail veldt
so effectively youre just throwing away your points
cinder haven
Do we really think we get points that far down in the class tree
glass mortar
ur not gunna do more damage then people who dont get to spend those points on dps right
frail veldt
if all they do is add damage
random stirrup
Well yeah because they’ll tune it and then mage just has more utility 
glass mortar
ye
frail veldt
Do we really think we get points that far down in the class tree
do we not?
random stirrup
but vigor might be nice to have on top of stuff
glass mortar
picking up more utility actually would probably be better
random stirrup
Class feel
glass mortar
but we cant exactly do that
frail veldt
ur not gunna do more damage then people who dont get to spend those points on dp...
exactly
cinder haven
I bet we get one more in top gate or something
glass mortar
vigor does feel nice tho ye
so its fine
more wiggle room for kir
assuming kir still exists
frail veldt
I bet we get one more in top gate or something
oh you think theyre gona increase the gate requirements?
random stirrup
I feel very few class trees have good utility remaining though
cinder haven
oh you think theyre gona increase the gate requirements?
Oh yeah
frail veldt
wouldnt that break all the trees
cinder haven
No?
random stirrup
like what class has more utility it wants to take that it can’t (and can’t just swap talent sets on a per dungeon basis)
frail veldt
like what class has more utility it wants to take that it can’t (and can’t just ...
warrior afaik
glass mortar
for most specs they will just take it all and not need to swap yea
frail veldt
dont they have to choose damage over shockwave
glass mortar
a few will def gain some more defensive/utility they usually cant take tho
frail veldt
druid is picking defensive over utility
glass mortar
the minority imo
random stirrup
Yippee my shaman can now take pct in all the dungeons you don’t need it
frail veldt
more mobility vs some other tools
random stirrup
Idk
frail veldt
lots of specs
cinder haven
Maybe we can finally take cold blood
vapid sundial
Yippee my shaman can now take pct in all the dungeons you don’t need it
More buttons on my shaman god no
frail veldt
I think just about all specs get a lot from more talents in the class tree
vapid sundial
glass mortar
warriors got a whole ass self heal mini cd they never take cause its undertuned and also competes with all dps/utility
it also removes poisons and diseases
so they get that
etc
cinder haven
I hope there is big changes for outlaw tbh, because then there will be a lot of fun TC work to do
glass mortar
altho warrior also has dps nodes in the class tree they cant take currently so
they r probably more similar to us
in the these points just slot into a dps talent camp
we'll see how it ends up not super exciting for rogue obviously but its not awful to have vigor in all builds if thats where the talents end
cinder haven
Changes almost nothing
frail veldt
I hope there is big changes for outlaw tbh, because then there will be a lot of ...
thast true
glass mortar
just makes it a bit less punishing ye
frail veldt
itll be enjoyable in the short term for sure
vale warren
Not outlaw but this happened to my buddy the other day
frail veldt
new stuff is always fun for a bit
vale warren
vivid vessel
frail veldt
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1187390524802486344/1419538058520428595/i...
did you break it?
cinder relic
dont they have to choose damage over shockwave
No
vale warren
vapid sundial
vivid vessel
it has always been broken wdym
cinder relic
You pick shockwave over like. Better leap or smthing irrelevant
frail veldt
it has always been broken wdym
no it used to show the actual image
cinder relic
Or rally
vivid vessel
no it used to show the actual image
when you opened it >?
cinder relic
Prot has to lose damage iirc
frail veldt
when you opened it >?
yes
cinder relic
But fury arms don't
vivid vessel
oh well
gaunt phoenix
no it was broken
frail veldt
it used to work for me lol
vivid vessel
who cares about the new one
gaunt phoenix
but zac kept the old one
vivid vessel
the og one is better
frail veldt
aaaaaaaaaah
cinder haven
Important work
vivid vessel
?
vivid vessel
gaunt phoenix
vapid sundial
Broken here too
gaunt phoenix
no its not
vivid vessel
ye just you
gaunt phoenix
vivid vessel
works for me
frail veldt
rip
vapid sundial
vivid vessel
try reinstalling discord bro
gaunt phoenix
wtf
vivid vessel
works for me
copper radish
It doesn’t work
vale warren
broken on my phone and my pc
vapid sundial
gaunt phoenix
vale warren
gaunt phoenix
think you should delete your account and then restore it
vapid sundial
Solo and Zac same person
vapid sundial
Confirmed
glass mortar
hmm maybe ur discord is bugged
copper radish
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1187390524802486344/1419538058520428595/i...
This image gonna steal ur data
frail veldt
📎 image_1.gif
glass mortar
vapid sundial
glass mortar
wintry solar
what if we pick up CB instead 
vapid sundial
copper radish
what if we pick up CB instead <a:Scared:772077108661846066>
Cold blood on outlaw would be fun
But only if KS becomes purely ST again
glass mortar
y wuld it be fun
wintry solar
nothing hits hard enough to justify using it as intended tho
wintry solar
that too
glass mortar
me when my cold blooded ability gains like ~10% dps per cold blood on it
frail veldt
CB is a nothign ability
copper radish
Idk man I’m just saying shit. What if it was 100% crit plus 100% extra dam
wintry solar
thats different
glass mortar
u wouldnt even press it
frail veldt
theres nothing fun about cb imo lol
glass mortar
ud just macro it to kspree if not all abilities
frail veldt
you dont engage in it
glass mortar
frail veldt
at all
glass mortar
ability has no interactions
wintry solar
people say KS is the worst ability in wow
copper radish
And?
glass mortar
oh i am talking to a "Big number is fun for me" enjoyer
gaunt phoenix
make CB give +100% crit, and any crit over the cap is converted to crit dmg
glass mortar
more power to u friends
frail veldt
CB as fatebound though can be interesting
arctic hollow
Cold blood has been the same since classic, it's time to let it die
glass mortar
stuff like that misses me completely
copper radish
make CB give +100% crit, and any crit over the cap is converted to crit dmg
This
frail veldt
make CB give +100% crit, and any crit over the cap is converted to crit dmg
that woudl give it more value but wouldnt it still just get macrod and ignored haha
gaunt phoenix
i feel like crit damage is a woefully unexplored multiplier
glass mortar
that would be a way to make it useless (it doesnt do anything for the rotation) instead of useless (it doesnt do anything at all) for sure
i have suggested it before
vapid sundial
i feel like crit damage is a woefully unexplored multiplier
Bm actually has that
copper radish
crit damage is very cool
DH got a good talent for that it’s fun
glass mortar
alot of specs with auto crits have those auto crits modded somehow
cinder haven
make CB give +100% crit, and any crit over the cap is converted to crit dmg
And haste over cap gives multistrike
gaunt phoenix
haste over 19% goes into mastery
copper radish
We need a good mastery rework to be honest. Tired of MG
glass mortar
haste over 19% goes into mastery, mastery increases our crit damage
vapid sundial
Don't monkey paw us
glass mortar
copper radish
“Walk the Plank” new outlaw execute
mighty pivot
all secondary stats are converted to versatility 1:1
copper radish
Mortal Kombat fatality type animation for it
cinder haven
Mastery rework scares me a bit
glass mortar
frfr tho, normalize FF, normalize bte (remove 4X crit damage), make it so btes crit damage scales with crit chance past 100% for it
unnecessary profile rng amplifiers
copper radish
Imagine not having to change all ur stats to play each of the rogue specs tho
We just all stack mastery lmao
vapid sundial
Noty
frail veldt
Mastery rework scares me a bit
it neeeeeds it though
random stirrup
You mean how every caster is haste mast?
frail veldt
I hope they do something clever with it
glass mortar
i just want it
to not be half of a real stat in st
so when u get mastery gear it isnt useless
it doesnt need to be bis
cinder haven
it neeeeeds it though
Sure if you want to lose 20% flat DR
glass mortar
10% behind crit id take
frail veldt
its only good in aoe with deft too right?
random stirrup
You can make a spec scale well with stats while still being a vers spec
Look at arcane
frail veldt
Sure if you want to lose 20% flat DR
Yeah the try hard in me likes being a vers class but I also hate scaling like shit and hating all gear upgrades that dont have vers on it
cinder haven
Make us scale really hard with agi
frail veldt
I dont think you can do that
cinder haven
Wdym can’t?
frail veldt
I thought main stat scales all specs the same
random stirrup
My sims tell me to go like 20k vers
vapid sundial
Same as bm atm
glass mortar
people will say any spec that doesnt avoid vers at all costs is a vers spec
gaunt phoenix
i mean it does lean vers
random stirrup
It’s quite vers heavy
cinder relic
You can make a spec scale well with stats while still being a vers spec
Isn't warlock vers rn as well
random stirrup
Again it just requires a spec having their other secondaries be like 95% of vers instead of 40-50
frail veldt
Blabla outlaw gains 50% more agi
this feels like it would have some potential negatives lol
random stirrup
So you still scale
glass mortar
idk is this a real vers spec
every top arcane im finding is like 60% haste 40% vers
just like fire
oh they also want some mastery
some almost have as much as vers
and a bit of crit
this looks like a healthy stat breakdown for a "vers" spec anyway
meanwhile 30k vers outlaw
random stirrup
yes they are distinctly a spec that likes a good amount of vers but doesn’t scale like garbage off other stats
You still get a nice dr benefit while not being super hard gear locked to specific secondaries
gaunt phoenix
i wonder why they dont like raw crit
glass mortar
if we didnt have a literal secondary stat tax we'd be at 40% vers 30% crit again wouldnt we solo
copper radish
Gotta protect it somehow
random stirrup
i wonder why they dont like raw crit
0 crit modifiers and you get a bit baseline from class tree
is my assumption
glass mortar
arcane doesnt have any feedback loops tied into its crits that im aware of
cinder haven
What did I say yesterday? Our best stat scales 33% worse than havocs worst or so
glass mortar
no crit damage mods, no resource or rotation scaling
and some basic crit in the tree yea
frail veldt
What did I say yesterday? Our best stat scales 33% worse than havocs worst or so
wait
vers scales worse for us than for them?
or is that just cuz were at dr
copper radish
What did I say yesterday? Our best stat scales 33% worse than havocs worst or so
That crit talent on DH doin wonders
random stirrup
Well the more vers you have the less it is good
frail veldt
OH nvm as absolute value that makes sense
random stirrup
So vers will look better on stat weights for specs that don’t stack it
cinder haven
Think it’s because they are all multipliers
copper radish
Well the more vers you have the less it is good
That’s called like diminishing returns right
frail veldt
as a percentage dmg increase vers is consistent for all specs ig
random stirrup
No it’s separate from dr
cinder haven
They just have more multipliers
random stirrup
Well it is a diminishing return but not the explicit in game mechanic one
Mathematical dr not game one
frail veldt
yeah makes sense
cinder haven
So each point in vers is worth more for them
glass mortar
anyway outlaw scaling is broken (so is sub btw) more news at 11
it doesnt take much to help that issue tho
make mastery not a fake stat
make haste not worthless after the tax (Remove the tax btw)
they dont need to be giga stats
just not giga dumpster
random stirrup
Yeah make mastery and post tax haste like 95% vers value and you’re golden
ocean lodge
why does killing spree hit coren direbrew for like quad damage
I was getting 4 mil ticks
glass mortar
he has a hidden passive where he takes +400% damage from guns
cinder haven
I really really really want rid of hard haste cap
random stirrup
Goated stat combo
glass mortar
probably just scaling nonsense
ocean lodge
he has a hidden passive where he takes +400% damage from guns
based
glass mortar
I really really really want rid of hard haste cap
its
i take deep breaths
we dont yap about it because theres no defending this thingy idk
i have nothing nice to say about this design choice
wotlk ass looking secondary interaction
"here forcibly take 10/20% of ur budget as this. thats all the stat does."
cinder haven
I don’t think anyone in here has ever even tried to defend the haste cap?
glass mortar
literally the laziest way to try to make a stat work
ocean lodge
vers is the worst stat ever.
glass mortar
i dont think so either
frail veldt
I don’t think anyone in here has ever even tried to defend the haste cap?
I think people have said "its not that big a deal"
ocean lodge
I hope our mastery changes at least >_>
vapid sundial
Ryu maybe
glass mortar
if its not removed in 12.0 idk what to say even
glass mortar
this does not deserve to last an expac let alone longer then an expac
frail veldt
if its not removed in 12.0 idk what to say even
I dont think it will be
ngl
I think they keep it
random stirrup
It’s a good thing in allowing outlaw to dodge the vers dr for a little longer
it’s a horrific implementation though
frail veldt
It’s a good thing in allowing outlaw to dodge the vers dr for a little longer
bro wdym
glass mortar
it is technically a net positive for outlaws scaling
frail veldt
its like having a higher vers dr
glass mortar
its still garbage tho
cinder haven
I just wanna blast during BL
frail veldt
starting at 0%
glass mortar
yes so thats x% of ur budget that isnt taxed mewo
frail veldt
literally
glass mortar
since ur tuned to have 20% of it and less of the other stat
frail veldt
100% of our vers
glass mortar
DR tax
glass mortar
yes
glass mortar
so if u took that 20% haste budget
frail veldt
its not less dr
random stirrup
it also lets you play vers haste jewelry since pure vers jewelry is rare
cinder haven
And maybe not have to ask priest to PI tank instead of me
glass mortar
instead its in haste
frail veldt
starting at 0%
glass mortar
we have less vers
frail veldt
how is that good?
glass mortar
so less secondaries r being wasted to DR
random stirrup
so its a 100% dr
But you have more raw effective stat
glass mortar
i think u need to think about what we are saying
random stirrup
You have 40k effective secondaries instead of 37k or whatever
frail veldt
because you get less of a stat
glass mortar
random stirrup
Because you’ve allocated some to haste
glass mortar
if u do 100 damage with the haste tax design and 20% haste 30% vers
ocean lodge
because some specs end up like enhancement or outlaw anyway where you end up stacking those stats anyway, and you get punished relative to everyone else.
glass mortar
or 100 damage with no haste tax design and 0% haste 50% vers
if u take those exact secondaries
moving 20% haste to 20% vers
doesnt get u to 50%
frail veldt
or 100 damage with no haste tax design and 0% haste 50% vers
YEAH OBV THIS ONE IS BETTER!?!?!?!
Lololololol
glass mortar
u dont get what we r saying at all
arctic hollow
sorry, is DR decreased return ?
random stirrup
if u do 100 damage with the haste tax design and 20% haste 30% vers
And when a new tier drops you have more room to grow into vers without hitting the dr
ocean lodge
or 0% haste 45% vers
is crackshot gone and is our mastery still the same
keen belfry
guys
frail veldt
@glass mortar 20% haste 30% vers
or 0% haste 45% ver
glass mortar
<@185854083964469249> 20% haste 30% vers
or 0% haste 45% ver
the 20% haste 30% vers is gunna do more damage because less of its secondaries r wasted to DR
frail veldt
pick one
glass mortar
it "scaled" better
frail veldt
the 20% haste 30% vers is gunna do more damage because less of its secondaries r...
no?
glass mortar
the higher damage one
frail veldt
it wont
glass mortar
in my example yes
glass mortar
they clearly dont tune around scaling so
copper radish
Weran on some Ryu stacking haste shit rn
glass mortar
in s1 its identical
random stirrup
But if they tune scaling doesn’t matter at all
glass mortar
as soon as ur secondaries reach DRs
ocean lodge
cuz they tune
do they though
glass mortar
the haste tax technically improves r scaling
copper radish
do they though
Confirmed they do not tune
glass mortar
thats ryldds point
frail veldt
do they though
I mean yeah they do thats why we were nerfed
frail veldt
in theory it does yeah but in practice it just makes everything worse hahahhaa
glass mortar
well the only thing it makes worse is gearing
cinder haven
Maybe kir will be able to take takem by surprise after rework
glass mortar
and it makes gearing alot worse to be clear
it shouldnt exist
idk what else its making worse tho
copper radish
Can we live in a world where outlaw just works and everyone likes it. One day. Maybe one day
frail veldt
cuz scaling 1% better is irrelevant when we still scale worse than every other spec in the game
worldly juniper
Greenskin gamers
glass mortar
sure
copper radish
Greenskin gamers
🤚
glass mortar
our whole point was it does technically improve outlaws scaling tho
its just funny cause its the most dogshit thing
so nobody defends it anyway
such a lazy way to implement haste for law
look at what monks got
haste is giga for WW now
cinder haven
It kind of achieves the design goal, just in the worst conceivable way
frank bane
glass mortar
if ur design goal is "make haste needed by outlaw, but PI and lust continue to be utterly worthless" then yes
god gearing for a kir only season is just
jolly geyser
mastery makes pistol shot do more dmg
copper radish
if ur design goal is "make haste needed by outlaw, but PI and lust continue to b...
What if our mastery was that haste increase our raw overall dmg
frail veldt
Can we live in a world where outlaw just works and everyone likes it. One day. M...
I mean I still like it
so fun to play
the skill expression si prob the thing I like the most on outlaw
your damage is very in your control
compared to some other more cd based specs
where your overall is heavily influenced by route and stuff
copper radish
I just want my 3milly coins back in pvp 😭
keen belfry
craft gloves or ring? or upgrade stutff? or what? im bored.
copper radish
craft gloves or ring? or upgrade stutff? or what? im bored.
Gloves for more agility
keen belfry
im already agile
keen belfry
i was thinking:
craft gloves, upgrade one ring? idk im bored
might buy ring
idk im bored
copper radish
Craft gloves buy mythic ring
GG
I’m prob crafting a belt later and replacing this delve belt finally
keen belfry
2.7mil for this
glass mortar
ZAMB
look at that ring
🤤
they should just do all boes this way honestly
why even come we template stats
slate forge
craft gloves or ring? or upgrade stutff? or what? im bored.
You save for turbo boost wep trinkets and big pierces
wintry solar
Give him money NOW
copper radish
We want damage NOW
ocean lodge
serious question, no memeing
slate forge
Unfortunately yes
ocean lodge
would we be mad if RB was removed but cds went down across the board
keen belfry
how
copper radish
Instant new max ilvl
ocean lodge
I feel like that'd be awful.
slate forge
No crest cap lifted some pieces worth more than others
keen belfry
Instant new max ilvl
but i still have to upgrade stuff anyyways
copper radish
I mean all u gotta really do is make sure u have 30 gilded per crafted
ocean lodge
need 30 for weapons too
keen belfry
just have infinited runed crests to turn in
copper radish
And just spend the rest of it on what u already got
ocean lodge
and trinkets
indigo token
imma be real
slate forge
just have infinited runed crests to turn in
But it’s still capped so that doesn’t do you any good tell 21st
indigo token
not a fan of turbo boost
i'd like it more if you could transfer crests after they were uncapped
copper radish
I liked the season 4 where it was do all the raids
And vote on tier bonus for last season that was fun
ocean lodge
delaying crest cap/vendors just strikes me as totally arbitrary
cinder relic
delaying crest cap/vendors just strikes me as totally arbitrary
Probably so you don't feel obligated to do 20+ keys on the Tuesday afternoon before raid
slate forge
Just delayed for 2 weeks
ocean lodge
I just gotta do this stupid shit now where I basically don't spend a single crest this week
cinder relic
that's gonna happen anyway for most people
Why would it happen anyway? There's no reason to if uncapped crests is 2 weeks later
idle gale
Hey y'all! I'm switching from HO to KiR and had a couple questions after reading through the info & practicing the 'new' rotation- hoping y'all might be able to help:
- Do you hold ghostly strike if you're at full combo points or just send it before the next finisher?
- There's a line that states the KiR build doesn't use ambush at all- does that mean you use sinister strike as a builder in stealth/subterfuge or am I being too literal?
- I understand that you don't use sinister strike to build combo points for coup de grace, but that you may use pistol shot. Is it worth to use blade flurry to build CP prior to coup if it's off CD? Trying to understand if it's about the number of CP sinister strike generates or just about sending coup procs asap.
glass mortar
Why would it happen anyway? There's no reason to if uncapped crests is 2 weeks l...
so people will just feel this identical obligation 2 weeks later or
ocean lodge
ambush doesn't multi-hit for kir so it's not efficient
glass mortar
i dont really get the timegate ngl
2 weeks is enough to upgrade how much, 3.5 pieces of ur new upgrade track gear total?
so those people will equally nolife it the day this comes out
whats the point of the delay
ocean lodge
and the point is to not waste unseen blades while your coup is ready
glass mortar
is there some new actual content next week they want us to do instead of the m+ mines
is there a new island or event or something
slate forge
Blizz timegating addiction timegating our buffs too
idle gale
and the point is to not waste unseen blades while your coup is ready
oohhh ok that makes sense, thank you!
glass mortar
timegates can be good and i dont think all timegating deserves the flak it gets
blizzard is certainly heavy handed with it now a day tho
drip feeding already drip fed content
ocean lodge
I think when they timegated nightfall
cinder relic
so people will just feel this identical obligation 2 weeks later or <:garf:13201...
Well you'll be less obligated, and also less keys to do in general if it's 2 weeks of normal crest gains
ocean lodge
that was the perfect example of a bad timegate
gaunt phoenix
Hey y'all! I'm switching from HO to KiR and had a couple questions after reading...
- as trickster technically yes, but it's very minimal to hold
- yes you use SS in stealth
- you dont use SS, you can use any other normal builder (but not a naked pistol shot ofc). it's because SS can proc unseen blade twice at any moment, and they are wasted if coup is ready
idle gale
1. as trickster technically yes, but it's very minimal to hold
2. yes you use SS...
thank you!!
cinder relic
I like turbo boost for example, but I didn't like having to cram the first few days for a million crests on every character
If crests are capped initially, I can just play normally and get most of my upgrades done, and then grind the last few items out
Rather than having to grind for every item
glass mortar
r we overcapped on guilded already for full 723 to people who have that
2 weeks is enough to upgrade 6 pieces of turbocharged gear so u'll have 9 pieces left to sweat out the day that comes out on all ur alts
not that the timegating actually maters since the turbo sweats know u can just grind out the next lower crest cap and save them all up to convert to gilded the day the uncap happens
u just dont get the payoff i guess
copper radish
No u
cinder relic
The payoff is that there will be less of a grind on the first day of the patch
glass mortar
unkempt smelt
is antenna bait
Sims will tell
quaint mauve
KS buff , bf nerf incoming
daring oxide
Ping me when the real buffs are in not now too early
daring oxide
myth antenna or incorporeal
Antenna
frail veldt
The payoff is that there will be less of a grind on the first day of the patch
gotta protect players from themselves
leaden folio
is antenna bait
take it and spec sub, ez
frail veldt
players when you cap crests: "wtf crests are capped this is so dumb I cant even farm out the gear"
Players when you uncap crests: "wtf crests are uncapped this is so dumb I have to farm out all the gear"
copper radish
players when you cap crests: "wtf crests are capped this is so dumb I cant even ...
I gotta be honest. If shit was uncapped. I’d have max gear after the weekend cause I’d play all day to do it and then be like huh whole season ahead of me wtf do I do now
shell dust
take it and spec sub, ez
tried sub, didnt understood, gave up, went back to outlaw
morale of the story? sub bad
frail veldt
I gotta be honest. If shit was uncapped. I’d have max gear after the weekend cau...
exactly
I think time gating is important
floral compass
Why is the variance of energy on my ST opener so huge in raid? some pulls im chilling other pulls im begging for energy 3 globals in
stuck sparrow
i mean i think turbo boost is stupid
frail veldt
Why is the variance of energy on my ST opener so huge in raid? some pulls im chi...
cuz fatal flourish isnt a normalized proc
floral compass
how is it suddenly THIS bad, I raided in Nerubar and never had this issue
ocean lodge
myth antenna or incorporeal
take the antenna or you will be destroyed
frail veldt
i mean i think turbo boost is stupid
turbo boost is just to allow for artificial progression for less serious players imo
gaunt phoenix
Fatal flourish can decide to fuck you especially if you dont lust on pull
shell dust
take the antenna or you will be destroyed
did
ocean lodge
\o/
stuck sparrow
isnt warpclaw just
gaunt phoenix
In nerubar we had the tier set printing infinite rtb buffs
stuck sparrow
a poor man’s sigil of the cosmic hunt
floral compass
In nerubar we had the tier set printing infinite rtb buffs
oh yeah that thing was so bis
stuck sparrow
Also with turbo boost
tired rune
golden lark
When is the rework?
stuck sparrow
outlaw tank rework 12.0
leaden folio
1 spec more to dh, 1 spec less for rogue
glass mortar
Fatal flourish can decide to fuck you especially if you dont lust on pull
remind me why this mechanic has any variance at all
stuck sparrow
lmao it doesnt help community perception is low
Know quite a few non rogue mains who say outlaw isnt a real spec
red zinc
turbo boost is just to allow for artificial progression for less serious players...
Its just to get more retention
Wow players like seeing number go up
After a month or two that goes pretty slowly
Im sure it helped their sub numbers, they wouldnt be spreading it out even more otherwise
unkempt cypress
outlaw feels so fucking bad to play now its insane
Ol feels great to play just disable meters
red zinc
Lowkey wonder what would happen to class playerbases if there was no possible way to track player performance
itd be bad for game ofc but that aside
frail veldt
Lowkey wonder what would happen to class playerbases if there was no possible wa...
like if representation goes up if no one knows how much dps theyre doing?
vivid vessel
Lowkey wonder what would happen to class playerbases if there was no possible wa...
there is always ways tho
like wdym
even without details
and no logs
you could check which comps finish keys faster
lot of guess work i guess tho
i think people would just like
do dummy testing
on m+ packs
and check how fast pack dies
copper radish
Blizzards details is gonna be 🔥
red zinc
there is always ways tho
i mean its just a hypothetical
Its not possible to prevent that
vivid vessel
no but thats not an hypothetical that can exist right
there is always ways
like look at league
there is no data
red zinc
but i genuinely wonder if people would play other stuff if damage had no impact
vivid vessel
well i guess there is winrate data
but people just look at how much damage they do
when they press spells
like purely vibes
red zinc
Sometimes
iron notch
why do i do negative dmg on this spec, i used to be the goat
vivid vessel
its trash
iron notch
is there some hidden optimization for big dmg like tomelvis
some ppl wanna run phys comp with me but im so washed xd
copper radish
is there some hidden optimization for big dmg like tomelvis
Bro has the secret tech gotta pay for it tho
ocean lodge
Secret technique but with guns sounds funny
copper radish
Oooo can outlaw steal a sub ability for midnight
frail veldt
but i genuinely wonder if people would play other stuff if damage had no impact
like if the game was only target dummies
and you didnt kill a boss by damage?
but yeah its kind of a weird reality to even attempt to imagine
cuz its so impossible
bright crane
Oooo can outlaw steal a sub ability for midnight
Bro what if they gave OL shadow dance!!
copper radish
Doesn’t sub get adrenaline somehow or did at one point
bright crane
Don’t think so
cinder relic
Shadowblades is dreadblades
vivid vessel
they got ace also
quaint mauve
they got ace also
they basically have blade flurry too
random stirrup
i will once turbo drops
vivid vessel
im gonna abuse that shit
random stirrup
couldnt do it before
quaint mauve
ye the achiev is insane
what achievement?
copper radish
I just need 710 boots for that damn achieve and I’ve yet to see the heroic interlopers drop 😭
quaint mauve
I just need 710 boots for that damn achieve and I’ve yet to see the heroic inter...
oh… that achievement
yeah i still have champ track boots
and gloves :))))))))
copper radish
Hope my vaults cooking something good
They should have made the catalyst give everyone interlopers boots tbh
Then they coulda done a token for boot tier like they did with the cape
tender wedge
I got to replace my last remaining hero tier slot with myth, not super exciting but could have been worse
frail veldt
I just need 710 boots for that damn achieve and I’ve yet to see the heroic inter...
Im still missing any version of the boots
copper radish
Im still missing any version of the boots
Damn. First thing I’m doing. Open vault. LFG. Heroic soul hunters right to em lol
frail veldt
yeup
thats what I usually do
last week I did the thing where I get a lockout of soul hunters
then invite only non leather
copper radish
I’m gonna be torn. If heroic boots in vault to I take that over a mythic track from keys
frail veldt
boots didnt drop...
copper radish
I have BIS items just not all mythic track yet lol
frail veldt
must be nice
copper radish
Got lucky w priory neck and sigil/antenna hero level
Prob gonna craft a belt later and replace this no stats one
daring oxide
In nerubar we had the tier set printing infinite rtb buffs
wait wasn't that undermine tier set?
ocean lodge
Lowkey forgot about the cheevo
gaunt phoenix
true
ocean lodge
My lock and brewmaster are gonna just jump from 705 to 720 lmao
copper radish
wait wasn't that undermine tier set?
Couldn’t even tell u what season 1 set did for us at this point 😆
random geyser
if i recall it was so bad orignally we only ran 2 pc
mighty pivot
tuning announced yet?
random geyser
yeah 10% nerf too good on soul hunters
ocean lodge
tuning announced yet? <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
At this point
I don't want tuning till turbo
Because they won't do enough
mighty pivot
better wait for midnight prepatch to be sure
gaunt phoenix
i love that i can replace an item with 720 crafted but it would disrupt my haste, i would have to wait to craft 2 items at once
ocean lodge
I'm just hoping our spec is even recognizable in midnight.
mighty pivot
i love that i can replace an item with 720 crafted but it would disrupt my haste...
the best thing is when you need to downgrade in ilvl just to fix your haste
random geyser
they just gonna make outlaw daggers too XD
mighty pivot
sword sub would be nice
ocean lodge
I mean I think they should normalize shadow tech
random geyser
bring back hemo
ocean lodge
Why not
At least let us mog however we want.
The underlying code is still the same
mighty pivot
not even hemo, just make gloomblade usable with any weapon type and kick backstab out of the kit
random geyser
but weapon swing timers man how would the do thaat we only have a billion haste
ocean lodge
I'll just be happy if rogue doesn't get "rettified"