outlaw

[long barn]

Yea lol

[wintry solar]

Or prepatch

Depending

[long barn]

That’s all we’re good for is the bank

[mighty pivot]

what would be the equivalent of a socket for a rl vault?

[long barn]

Scratch off for 10k

[tender wedge]

That’s the pizza I think

[mighty pivot]

maybe a coupon for a borgir

[tender wedge]

Like it’s not ideal but I’m only going to complain if I’m already full of pizza

[wintry solar]

I just had a borgir!

[mighty pivot]

what was in your borgir popo?

[quaint mauve]

it’s how i learnt

[gaunt phoenix]

Those buffs going down to 30s is a good thing

so if your buffs are like 50 50 50 50 30 30

[long barn]

Why

[gaunt phoenix]

those 30s buffs will tick down to 0

and then your buffs are 20 20 20 20 all ahead of the container

and you get to roll again

[long barn]

Ohhh

What if all of them go to 30

[gaunt phoenix]

tough luck

[long barn]

So you really want a high roll then low roll

[spare lake]

wats the easiest way to sim

[tender wedge]

I think you’d probably rather just 5 roll permanently but at least when you don’t then you get supercharger as a consolation prize

[wintry solar]

Yummy. The bread was toasted with garlic butter

[wintry solar]

I read that as how

Nothing crazy. Just meat, cheese, and stuff

[quaint mauve]

i just did a sub key for halls

and man oh man

🥲

why can’t we have a fraction of that

shards were actually dying

[random geyser]

Cause bf was broken in bfa

And your being punished

[quaint mauve]

i didn’t play in bfa

why am i being punished

[random geyser]

Your a rogue u deserve it

[timid idol]

i played in bfa

and it was so fun

and sure it deserved nerfs then

but blizz is low iq

dk has a broken spec every patch

unholy is broken 9/10 patches

this time its frost for the first time in 30 years

same for mage

fire is broken 9/10 patches

but look this time its not!!!!!

blizzard cares!!!!

outlaw was x3 of in one mdi back in bfa and since then it's not allowed to exist anymore

even though there would be plenty of specs that would be played x3 in mdi if they didn't introduce the unique specs rule

[copper radish]

Frost being more played than unholy is like hell freezing over

[timid idol]

legit

enjoy it

while you can

[copper radish]

Like is the second coming upon us

[stray star]

!key

[timid idol]

next xpac is back to unholy for another 30 patches in a row

[random geyser]

can i just have a burst window

[timid idol]

no

and you cannot have uncapped either

you WILL deal the same amount of damage as your tank in first floodgate pull and you WILL like it

[random geyser]

we deal the same dps as tanks on dimensius

[timid idol]

i did not even get aotc this patch

i miss gally

[copper radish]

U got a free one with turbo boost inc

[timid idol]

we had 1 cool unique raid now its back to otherwordly dimensional beings

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[copper radish]

Ngl. Undermine raid was one of the best they’ve had

[timid idol]

legit

bfa is my fav xpac since i started legion late

but undermine is my fav patch ever

[random geyser]

Undermine was good cause there was so little down time

[timid idol]

such cool asthetic and theme

[random geyser]

we are the only pure dps class without a brez or hero 😄

[timid idol]

and with no real party utility

:DDDDDDDDDDDDD

meanwhile amz

but dw

[random geyser]

but shroud

[timid idol]

shroud yea

was too op bro

you dont understand

they had to redesign the entire dungeon philosophy bcs of this one spell

[random geyser]

and invis pots *

[spare lake]

do i just download the zip file and use the addon and bada boom bada bing i can sim

[gaunt phoenix]

you get simulationcraft addon

then in game you type /simc

this gives you a thing to copy/paste into raidbots.com

and then from there you can sim whatever

[spare lake]

ty friend

[gaunt phoenix]

most typically Top Gear

[spare lake]

being almost 710 il i should probably start simming i guess

[gaunt phoenix]

for outlaw you commonly use top gear and select your vers/crit/haste pieces

so then it decides the best combination of gear to reach 19% haste

[spare lake]

damn shit takes almost 3 min to get in line

3.75m dps 🤢

im pretty new to retail and im not rlly wantin to hit yt videos for guides, which fights are better for aoe talents and which are better for st

[gaunt phoenix]

most of the raid is fatebound st

soul hunters is trickster 1fth

[spare lake]

ok almost a mil diff when i run fatebound instead of kir

wats fth

[gaunt phoenix]

trickster 1fth is technicallly better for parsing on soulbinder and araz but fatebound is more boss dmg

[torpid fiber]

Fan the hammer, a talent

[spare lake]

ahh right

[gaunt phoenix]

our aoe build uses 1 point in fth

so we call it 1fth

[spare lake]

wats the addon for changing ur cursor

[gaunt phoenix]

your cursor

to what?

[spare lake]

and the lil green x on the centre of ur character i assume is wa

[gaunt phoenix]

most everything is a wa

[spare lake]

ive seen clips of peoples cursors being a different model then default

sometimes easier to see when last second hook

[wintry solar]

cursor trail probably

thats what I use and I love it

[spare lake]

ty

[torpid fiber]

I should get one of those

[spare lake]

so basically eerything other then soul hunters i should use fatebound ?>

[gaunt phoenix]

trickster is more popular on soulbinder and araz

but it is just padding dmg

i mean i do it cause im just parsing at this point

[spare lake]

dopamine parsing in lfr

outlaw go brrr(ain rot)

its a shame the mage tower legion challenge tmog isnt amazing

was a fun fight back then

[gaunt phoenix]

the rapiers?

they are amazing

[spare lake]

they r pretty rp accurate

not super flashy comparably

!macros

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[wintry solar]

The sea scourge blades are better for sure

[frail veldt]

Also a WA haha

Depending on which one

[quaint mauve]

school kills future liquid raiders

[sullen wyvern]

I've noticed that zac is using both sleight of hand and loaded dice for keys, dropping swift slasher I guess?

[gaunt phoenix]

dropping 3% vers

[sullen wyvern]

Is it simmibg higher or is it just personal preference? Is he following the latest pin suggestions?

oh you right

is it simming higher?

[gaunt phoenix]

it undersims a bit, they should sim the same so its just preference

/ slight bug abuse that cant be modeled

[sullen wyvern]

Aight. Thanks, I might give it a try

[sullen wyvern]

wait I skipped this, what slight bug?

[gaunt phoenix]

it's in the pin, the thought is that as you are rolling more often you are more likely to hit the bug where rtb buffs stay behind for no reason

[wintry solar]

Aren't you worried about getting banned?

[gaunt phoenix]

???

[sullen wyvern]

I never fully understood the whole science of

rolls falling behind etc

So from what I understood on the pin and using zacs rtb Wa as a reference, ahead of the container are the yellow buffs, right?

the ones that will not be replaced if you rtb again

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[sullen wyvern]

so which ones would be the ones that stay behind?

[gaunt phoenix]

you just said it

yellow buffs stay behind

because they are ahead of the container

[sullen wyvern]

oh ok, my bad sorry

[gaunt phoenix]

But unrelated to the container there is a separate bug where rtb buffs just randomly stay behind for god knows why

[sullen wyvern]

so what is this new science behind slieght suggesting? always press RTB at 2 buffs unless I dont wanna lose a specific buff like Broadsides/True Bearing for example.

So that I may constantly hit the yellow ones even without using KiR?

[sullen wyvern]

this is despite using sleight or not?

[gaunt phoenix]

okay this is a lot to get through

the yellow buffs are from kir and only kir

They have always been a thing

rtb buffs can also randomly stay behind even though they were not yellow

This has always been a thing

[sullen wyvern]

I've noticed that some rtb buffs are yellow too sometimes.

[gaunt phoenix]

it can happen with count the odds, anyway not because of sleight

there is not a science or a tech, just a possible extra benefit of using sleight, is that you will sometimes have more buffs that are not yellow but they stay behind anyway, just a random bug

[sullen wyvern]

I see. Ok

Is RTB poorly coded or what lmao

[gaunt phoenix]

who knows

[sullen wyvern]

It's just so much random shit

and incosistent

[hollow bloom]

They going to delete outlaw in expansion, on god, fr fr

[sullen wyvern]

Well, they did mention outlaw and the need of using WAs

im afraid they might make outlaw a braindead spec because of that

since Wa's wont be a thing in midnight

[keen belfry]

solo

this spec doesnt want us to win

im tired of the fight

when is it over?

[torpid fiber]

????

They've literally said that isn't true

They're disabling access to some API functions

[sullen wyvern]

Didn;t they made a post on which addons will be gone?

[keen belfry]

yes combat parsing stuff

not WAs as a whole

[torpid fiber]

they are killing computational weakauras

[sullen wyvern]

I mean, much better

honestly I rather be dead wrong on this, thanks

[torpid fiber]

Which means stuff like "everyone has this weakaura installed in a raid, and when mechanics go out it tells who to go where based on who got the mechanic"

[sullen wyvern]

Lat time I've read about it they put a bunch of addons that wont be usable in midnight and that's the last thing I knew about it

[torpid fiber]

and to kill that there's going to have to be some splash damage because of how coding works unfortunately

My understanding is that some of the stuff they're adding baseline isn't because they're killing the addons, but because they want it to be reasonable to play the game without them

[sullen wyvern]

I mean, if done properly, there shouldn't be a reason on to use WA

[torpid fiber]

I disagree

I think the customisability is always going to be nice to have

[sullen wyvern]

I agree

[torpid fiber]

If you make that all baseline it's still just WA except baseline

And bc WA is a framework, it doesn't change anything

[sullen wyvern]

yeah but its performance should be better if its done in game and not through a third party software/addon, right?

[torpid fiber]

uhhh

[sullen wyvern]

as in WAs sometimes might lag your game or drop some fps because of shit happening

[torpid fiber]

I think in practice most vaguely competent WAs are a lot less performance hogs than people think

[sullen wyvern]

I do 100% agree with you, I have some WAs that are customized by myself with some sound cues and whatnot, stuff that in-game WAs wont provide.

[torpid fiber]

I kinda suspect it'd be worse with blizzard making the WA stuff baseline

Bc we all know they'd take a very very long time to fix performance issues in the backend

[sullen wyvern]

Do you know if Addons like Cell for example will still be in effect for Midnight?

[torpid fiber]

I have no clue

My gut is probably yes

Also they're not turning stuff off immediately in midnight afaik

[sullen wyvern]

Le'ts hope that's the case

I may have some really outdated information on that regard, thank you for clarifying bro

[torpid fiber]

Nah there's just a ton of misinfo out there

Dw about it

[frail veldt]

I thought the bug happens on accident lol is there a way were supposed to be "abusing it" more?

or is that not kosher to discuss

[elfin mural]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[gaunt phoenix]

No it's just random

it's just probably more likely to happen as you roll more

[smoky lotus]

is HO any less variance vs KIR? or is it mainly rolls that make it so variant (variable?)

[tender wedge]

rolls can feel like its very variable minute to minute but overall it's not THAT bad

[keen belfry]

justhow do u auto combat log

i do it

but idk how

ert?

[lime lake]

there are a few different ways afaik

i use loggerhead

[wintry solar]

Goodnight outlaws

[ancient pollen]

is there any in depth video guide for someone that haven't touched Outlaw out there?

[quaint mauve]

not any good ones

spec would be easier to understand if u just read faw

fa

faq

[vivid vessel]

ok but

outlaw is better in low keys

these people dont even understand their own argument

[viral bison]

hows outlaw now? compared to last season

[vivid vessel]

[mighty pivot]

outlaw is doing great

[vivid vessel]

also outlaw is the least played rogue spec above 15, and has 1/3 of unholy population

[rotund zodiac]

It’s okay

[vivid vessel]

i dont think i can get above 15 data tho

[mighty pivot]

you have to pay for that broke boy

[vivid vessel]

ok at specifically the 19 level

but i mean its barely more than unholy

still less than sub

and unholy is only played that little cause of how insane frost is anyway

unholy is legit so broken

frost is just brokener

[mighty pivot]

fdk number

[viral bison]

lol

[quaint mauve]

fdk sounds so fun rn

[mighty pivot]

actually insane that they have nerfed this spec 5 times in a row and it's still like that

[viral bison]

archon says stronk so stronk

thats the logic

[quaint mauve]

man im really playing outlaw

[viral bison]

of most youtube shorts and comments

see its higher than UDK

[quaint mauve]

people just don’t understand that rating charts like this mean nothing

[ripe ibex]

it’s so low apm

[quaint mauve]

ik

i pvpd with frost dk

before

[vivid vessel]

even if you look at high keys sub is above in archon the useless website

[quaint mauve]

and got glad on fdk

[ripe ibex]

but yeah it’s legit unreal op

[quaint mauve]

the spec is piss shit easy

[viral bison]

S1 FDK > > > >> >>

best experience ever

[ripe ibex]

i mean grip ams amz and just the most unreal damage

what does that spec not have

[viral bison]

like why this website even exist

[mighty pivot]

outlaw being above BM tells you all that you need to know about archon

[viral bison]

xd

[vivid vessel]

and in archon there is still more udk than outlaw on their "high key" metric

(high key seems to be at 13+ for them so idk?

[viral bison]

the normal ones are 7-20
so highkey should be +20

idk

xd

[random stirrup]

Well it uses top 5% io for a spec right

[vivid vessel]

what is high key bro

[ripe ibex]

top 5% is wayyyy to broad

[vivid vessel]

they dont tell me

[random stirrup]

There are 8 million BM hunters playing their +5s and half the outlaws are just otp key gamers so it weights super high

[vivid vessel]

oh its top 5% per spec

[viral bison]

EXACTLY even top 50 is way too broad

[vivid vessel]

well thats giga flawwed wtf

[ripe ibex]

even the difference between top 0.1% and 0.01% is an unreal massive difference

[random stirrup]

yes it’s a horrible metric

[mighty pivot]

top 5% in rating across everything is between 13s and 14s atm

[quaint mauve]

r the engineer crafts good on us

where u can get full vers on a piece

[ripe ibex]

maybe

probably doesn’t really matter that much tho tbh

[vapid sundial]

I would say top 50 is fine

idk how that is too much

[vapid sundial]

Idk if thats this being flawed

i think thats more so

outlaw sucks dick

[mighty pivot]

taking top 50 on a spec with 100 players total

[viral bison]

101* i just rerolled

[vapid sundial]

reminiscing what we did week 1 DF

[quaint mauve]

this just showed me how far behind i am

fuck you

jk

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-silly-cat-happy-cat-smile-gif-11748501437476694103

[vapid sundial]

(we got fucked by a druid bug and would have finished a diff key, not the fucking hardest key)

HOV to be specific

man

good times

[viral bison]

which one is you

[stiff hawk]

Quaking plus Raszageth Seasonal

[quaint mauve]

not even on the list 😭

im 3200

[viral bison]

WEAK

[quaint mauve]

im a failure

i know

[viral bison]

yes

GRIND HARDER!

[quaint mauve]

im a fat worthless no name

[viral bison]

play andrew tate podcasts

and focus on grinding

[quaint mauve]

nah

[vapid sundial]

bro that shit sucked

doing that week 1

[vapid sundial]

The tree boss was giga aids

[quaint mauve]

@viral bison the method

[viral bison]

EW

thats why youre weak

CHANGE YOUR MENTALITY

[quaint mauve]

no

[viral bison]

then stay in 3200

[quaint mauve]

my tank is playing among us as we speak

this isn’t on me

[vapid sundial]

I need to find a new group

but lazy

[stiff hawk]

Also do you remember the Ragin Tempest Boss with Raszageht Seasonal

Who thought that was a good idea

[vapid sundial]

oh yeah

that dogshit

broooo fuck me

i got reminded of an argument i had in here about keys

lmaoo

Got told you cant use raid parses if you have 2 equally decent players (io / gearwise) to judge which one to take

and that you couldnt get carried to 3k

(was higher io back then)

[stiff hawk]

Worst thing i remember about DF Dungeon

Was Neltharions Lair first week

The Worm Boss and Last boss on 20

Was just so brutal

[vapid sundial]

nah bro

the fucking

one i posted week 1

was brutal for a 20

so undergeared

and that tree was so overtuned

(and i was playing outlaw so no aoe)

[stiff hawk]

True

Academy wasnt ok

[wicked jacinth]

Could someone share with me their damage split on aoe pull / on dummies?

[vapid sundial]

doing a 20 week 1 was fun

and it ended up getting me my 4pc week 2

so i didnt mind it

but holy fuck that was a long 3 hours

[stiff hawk]

Yeah

Im glad this Addon was kinda generous

10s were very doable

even first weeks

[vapid sundial]

Ye

i forget what 19 or 18 we did

i need to find out

[stiff hawk]

You just had to be lucky on first week in DF

to get Shadowmoon

or CoS

[vapid sundial]

[stiff hawk]

Well CoS first week 20 was also hard

Last Boss double ticking dmg

[vapid sundial]

2 chested 18 moon

[stiff hawk]

Yeah the variance between the Dungeons was wild

[haughty wigeon]

im slowly going back up to my old key level as vdh

[vapid sundial]

also 2 chested 18 cos

[haughty wigeon]

[vapid sundial]

cuz we had our first 20 brick

[haughty wigeon]

i am very happy

[vapid sundial]

due to bug

[haughty wigeon]

but like

i know its a meme key 8

but is it normal that people are under tank at this level in overaL?

[vapid sundial]

so orignally we did 20 hov -> and it bugged on angel boss cuz druid swarm thing made her despawn and never come back

then had to do an 18 cos +2

and got academy lol

[stiff hawk]

Get fucked

I guess

HoV Fenryr as outlaw was cool

[vapid sundial]

Yeah

[stiff hawk]

Could disable the entire mechanic of him

[vapid sundial]

my team fell apart

and i missed title by like

1 key

s1

[stiff hawk]

That happens even on 10s

People are just bad

[haughty wigeon]

i guess i didnt remember it being this bad tho

[stiff hawk]

Bad People now have 710+ ilvl

and get invited

because they are on meta spec

[stiff hawk]

BOTH FOTM ROLLERS

Survival Chad

Survivals never disappointed me

[haughty wigeon]

survival chad ya

and that restro chad

actually carrying

[vapid sundial]

hey man im playing bm

but not for fotm

i just dont want responsibility

[lime lake]

based

[fathom carbon]

I just did a new overall dps pb for myself. Woo. Wanted to celebrate 😄
8.5 mil, i know some lads in here are hitting way higher. But i'm happy and loving this spec :p

[vapid sundial]

having to dispel on sham gave me aids.

[wicked jacinth]

Im looking at some logs, and I see outlaws hit CDG back to back without any builders and im curious, the part of text saying "counts as used with 5 more combo points" does it mean i can just slap it at 2 CP and its max damage, or if I cast it with 5CP it counts as 10cp?
Im kinda confused how it should be played out

[quaint mauve]

alt key?

[remote pecan]

if you have to press SS to build then send the 2nd coup at any cp

[quaint mauve]

if you have to press ss

you send it

you want to build if you have other builders

[haughty wigeon]

Ye

[quaint mauve]

when you ss you can be wasting ubs

[haughty wigeon]

Trying to shake off tank rust

[quaint mauve]

i can just tell

[wicked jacinth]

ah, so if I have pistol shot proc then do coup pistol coup, otherwise just double coup

Makes sense, thanks

[haughty wigeon]

8 priory

[wicked jacinth]

does Coup->Killing spree->Coup make sense?

[remote pecan]

yes you can do this

cancel the KS with coup as soon as you hit max cp

[quaint mauve]

tell me why im out dpsing 700 ilvl dps as a 670 tank

[haughty wigeon]

Probably cause chad

Same issue

[quaint mauve]

brew is fun

[haughty wigeon]

Bitch didn’t drop my tome tho

Gonna go warrior soon

[quaint mauve]

didn’t mean to type that

[quaint mauve]

i should

[haughty wigeon]

[quaint mauve]

warrior was my first main

ever

first wow character

[haughty wigeon]

I like the asthetic of panda warrior

Same

I want to try brew

But maybe another time

[vapid sundial]

my first time playing wow and character was not good

man

[quaint mauve]

i had an amazing first experience

little ol 14 year old
me

got gifted the deluxe shadowlands expansion by a streamer

[vapid sundial]

Started in classic, got baited into playing healer priest and left to elvel by myself

quit at lvl 20 when a friend gifted me bfa

said man

[quaint mauve]

after he figured out i was selling bfa bags to farm wow tokens for it

[vapid sundial]

this is so much better

classic sucks!

[quaint mauve]

i was actually 1 wow token away from doing it too

and they taught me m+

was sick

[vapid sundial]

dont get streamers like that anymore

we get greedy fucks like @vivid vessel

hoarding millions to buy feet pics

[quaint mauve]

sadly he doesn’t stream anymore

oil field guy

oil rig*

[vapid sundial]

i wish he didnt play

so theyd fix outlaw

[daring oxide]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/eco-dome-aldani-open-again-2nd-boss-javelins-fixed-378664#comments

How did this boss suddenly break xd

and then got hotfixed, where rogue hotfix?!

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-gif-26526118

[timid portal]

buff 2nd october no cappy

[fluid meadow]

which year?

[vivid vessel]

they tried to fix an "exploit"

if you go into the other guy circle you dont perma stack the debuff

instead you stay at 1

so i ugess that wasnt intended

i tought it was tbh

[quaint mauve]

@vivid vessel you think i’ll ever make it

[vivid vessel]

out of the trenches?

[quaint mauve]

or do u think i have a mechanical disability

yeah

out the trenches

maybe be in the big leagues

[quaint mauve]

or should i stick to something easy … cough cough monk or dh or warrior or dk or hunter or

[strong halo]

I can’t believe I’ve been gone two weeks and we’re still shit

Might be the most cringe balancing season ever

[frail trout]

how do you guys sim m+/aoe? dslice or st with x targets?

[strong halo]

D slice

[stiff hawk]

Dslice is a good thing on Rogue

[frail trout]

aight thx!

[quaint mauve]

@vivid vessel i need to know man

[strong halo]

You’re basically asking should I play outlaw rogue or every other class. Look internally mate lmao. Play what you want

[quaint mauve]

no i need to know if my goat believes in me

[stiff hawk]

He doesnt

[quaint mauve]

me and zac go way back

he might

[strong halo]

Why should he believe in you if you don’t even believe in yourself and named like 3 flavors of the month

[quaint mauve]

i’ve played every class in pvp and im kinda like a young prodigy at all.

you can even call me

the lebron of wow

but

idk im battling a lot of insecurity issues rn (parsed green)

and i need some uplifting words

[strong halo]

You got this champ.

[daring oxide]

Outlaw rework in 2 days exciting times to come soon

[quaint mauve]

ffs i don’t need to hear this cope

[stiff hawk]

Vai crashed out like 1-2 Years ago

[pastel sierra]

They just make it a ret/frost dk clone

[stiff hawk]

and since then he cant stop coping

[quaint mauve]

like we suck

we’re gonna suck all the way until midnight

and then we’re gonna suck in that

and we’re just gonna suck until the end of time

we will become bard spec

[vivid vessel]

no its over

[quaint mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-silly-cat-happy-cat-smile-gif-11748501437476694103

oh

[strong halo]

We’ve had some more wild unbalanced seasons. But like this is just bugs everywhere, and we get blessed with a 5% bm buff and then fuck all lmao like wtf are they doing other than cringe ret promos for midnight

[gaunt phoenix]

They've moved on from the season

[strong halo]

It’s a shame because the content is actually pretty good

[stiff hawk]

Yeah focus is on Remix now

and new Addon

[trim tiger]

outlaw rework and releasing 1h agi pistol for it

[devout garden]

2H outlaw build

[trim tiger]

i spent the last 2 tiers / 1 1/2 tiers away from rogue now i return to my baby

[stiff hawk]

Outlaw Rework into Dagger

[devout garden]

Outlaw rework into new pet spec for hunters

[strong halo]

It’s not like the other rogue specs are much better

[sacred rune]

tbh as much as people hate on the pirate theme

a fencer with a pistol or a small musket in the 2nd hand sounds like a cool theme

[strong halo]

Yeah I think most of us here would prefer that over a dagger

[pearl topaz]

let us use 2h guns in one hand

ill gladly compete with hunters

[worldly juniper]

Red Mage

https://tenor.com/bUNys.gif

Ranged/melee rogue spec

[meager idol]

I checked FAQ regarding using BF as CP generator, is it also reccomended one after Vanish when we spam BTEs? I tried it in dung, felt okay.

[inland acorn]

I'm not sure if I understand the question

You mean is it fine to BF in vanish windows ?

[meager idol]

Yes, for CP generation with Deft

[inland acorn]

Yes

[meager idol]

to get insta 5cp

[inland acorn]

BF is your best cp generator, if you can fill your cps

So you want to send it on CD

If it gives you enough cps, to let you press finisher right after

[meager idol]

Alright, thank you for clarification.

[devout garden]

Imagine gryphon foot from vermintide on outlaw

[sacred rune]

i never played final fantasy online, but possible.
I thought of something not magical tho

[worldly juniper]

Yeah

Instead of spells you like full uhh

wait I got it

Cause red mage dashes in, does melee then "disengages out" with a melee attack

So imagine outlaw with this

Jokes this is too hard to find a gif of

[glass mortar]

As long as we don't get targeted by melee mechanics

[worldly juniper]

Guess I'll make my own gif

Wait, why did I just assume no one knows what league is

But yeah, blade rush in, ranged attack out

Nice in and out combos

[indigo token]

if it was red mage that would be kino but the wow devs hate fun

[worldly juniper]

Yeah, high APM but in a different way haha

[indigo token]

like

ive said this before but Outlaw's core is 3 things to me

minimum effort aoe

lots of cdr

high apm

[worldly juniper]

Wait

Watch new DH spec be redmage

Lmao

[daring oxide]

not even cope nooba stop being QQ face

[red zinc]

Its supposed to be

But historically lizzard has not been good at making movement specs be fun to play so

[covert kestrel]

Rework is Pandora's box. Who knows what they will attempt to try and make outlaw more accessible and balanced

[red zinc]

making a movement heavy ranged/melee hybrid is scary

[worldly juniper]

No it isnt

They did it already

And it was amazing

Acrobatic Strikes

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[earnest vapor]

does blade flurry give a cleave to KS?

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[glass mortar]

as long as they make it only targeted by melee mechanics and not ranged

but yes they tried this in legion alpha and everyone hated it and they undid it

the original survival hunter rework was a hybrid melee/range

altho its hard to seperate that from people just hating the loss of old survival vs people hating the hybrid playstyle

[earnest vapor]

appreciate it gang

[red zinc]

I mean even movement heavy dh has not been that great to play in raid ever

[glass mortar]

ye

[red zinc]

the only forced movement should be that going away from a boss

and even that can be cringe sometimes

[earnest vapor]

yeah inertia dh doesnt feel fluid

[vivid vessel]

their dash is a blink targeted on ground

like

[glass mortar]

yea i mean new dh dash looks gr8

but still

[red zinc]

idk i still think itll suck

[glass mortar]

if its a hybrid melee/range and it gets full range mechanics and has a "short" range

i think itll suck to play too yea

but always hopeful for somthing fun

[red zinc]

the whole “2 viable playstyles: ranged and hybrid” never pans out

[vivid vessel]

does aug get ranged mechs

ye right

[red zinc]

just gonna be one of the two

[glass mortar]

yes

and dev

all 3 evoker specs

they dont ever need to enter melee range tho

eh i guess once a minute or so for deep breath

[red zinc]

I feel like enhance shouldve been the melee/ranged hybrid spec if there was any

with like magic casting windows or sumn

already have that somewhat in all fairness

[glass mortar]

survival is still the closest embodiment of this

imo

u have a 1m cd that turns u into a range dps for 15s, and 90% of ur attacks can be used from out of melee anyway

survival s1 there was so few fights u ever had to suffer from melee mechanics if u optimized properly

[red zinc]

yeah but unless theres some incentive to leave melee nbdy will do it anyway

[glass mortar]

oh sure

if u want the active rotation to be moving in and out of melee that becomes messier

[red zinc]

That sure sounds like what they want from this new spec

We’ll see thursday

[glass mortar]

unless u just dont give them ranged mechanics or entering melee is something u do like once in a blue moon for a short duration

[still matrix]

Another week no patch notes

[frank finch]

its ok our lives change 2marow

[old gull]

[unkempt dew]

Are we meta yet?

[agile orchid]

guys you should lower your expectations

you really think they would put in that much effort into rogue?

[red zinc]

no im setting up some funny ass doomposts from believers by amping their expectations

[frank finch]

we are poster boys for making the game more simple

so i would hope so

[red zinc]

tomoro

[agile orchid]

rogue runs on bugs and duct tape

I don't think that will change

[tropic zephyr]

rogue rework reveal when

apex talents when

[agile orchid]

apex talents will take a while

[tropic zephyr]

[worldly shale]

What was the wa that made a gun cock sound when at more than 5 cp or sum

Need

[covert kestrel]

roll the bones? more like roll on out of here!

[mighty pivot]

the flying disc you get from renown is like a 10% lighter cartel master's disc 🕉️

[still matrix]

Does DH mainhand being higher ilvl matter?

[vivid vessel]

🕉️

[mighty pivot]

yuge stream tomorrow with so much info frfr all will be revealed

[restive obsidian]

You know rogue apex talents coming 1 month before expansion, per tradition

[covert kestrel]

afaik all melee dual wielders want highest ilvl in mh

[covert kestrel]

cant wait to see what they cook with feint this time

[restive obsidian]

Nah, crimson vial buffs.

Random rtb buff when you drink

[devout garden]

Crimson vial becomes our CR

Cope

[restive obsidian]

Adren rush becomes passive, actives from sprint and gains gcd.
No more crackshot.
Mastery becomes best stat
Lose all the passive stat buffs and gain increased auto attack

That being said,

It is kind of dumb we passively have 20% crit, 5% haste, another talent for 10% haste. It just makes the low level experience miserable because end game is balanced around that

[unkempt dew]

I like crackshot

[wintry solar]

being tied to vanish sucks though

[vivid vessel]

we have never been more free from using vanish for mechanics than now tho

since 2 charges

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/do-i-have-news-moira-moira-rose-catherine-ohara-schitts-creek-gif-20802734

[wintry solar]

it sucks because vanish is a buggy messy piece of shit

[wintry solar]

better be good news

[vivid vessel]

was?

maybe

[wintry solar]

is

[vivid vessel]

like we have to stop acting like vanish and subterfuge is bugged anymore

[wintry solar]

dont act like vanish is the best thing in the world

[vivid vessel]

how is it bugged

[wintry solar]

im not playing wow right now and just thinking about subt is pissing me off

hate that shit so much

[vivid vessel]

but its not bugged

so im confused

[wintry solar]

cant use trinkets in stealth

[vivid vessel]

yoiu can actually

just not in vanish

which is so irrelevant

if you are mad about tha

you need to get checked

[wintry solar]

stealth and subterfuge are not the same

[vivid vessel]

ye you cna trinket in stealth

[wintry solar]

and subt doesnt activate

[vivid vessel]

it does

[cinder relic]

[wintry solar]

since when?

[vivid vessel]

since idk

last tier i think

thats what i mean tho

there isnt really any bug left

just login

[wintry solar]

idc

I still hate subt

[cinder relic]

[vivid vessel]

i hate people that talk about wow

that dont play wow

[wintry solar]

I have for years and it wont change soon

[vivid vessel]

litteral useless

[cinder relic]

The entire wow subreddit be like: "I haven't played since wrath and honestly I'm glad I stopped playing"

[vivid vessel]

ye idk

[wintry solar]

well I still play

and subterfuge sucks

as a mechanic

as an idea

[vivid vessel]

but there is no bugs

[cinder relic]

But why

[wintry solar]

as an anything

[cinder relic]

There aren't bugs

Ur literally just upset for the sake of being upset

[wintry solar]

we established that

[vivid vessel]

[wintry solar]

okay Im wrong

fuck

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/tv-simpsons-cloud-fist-grandpa-gif-12082744756246344299

popo this morning

[jagged plover]

i like vanish

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-some-deeply-tragic-news-for-you-bad-news-not-a-good-news-joe-lo-truglio-detective-charles-boyle-gif-13251965

[wintry solar]

this shit is so unfun today

UH OH

YOU DIDNT GET ANY IMPORTANT PROCS IN YOUR SUPER IMPORTANT 8 SECOND WINDOW

PEAK GAMEPLAY

give me a break

[cinder relic]

Which spec are u talking about?

[wintry solar]

outlaw

[cinder relic]

DK? Hunter? Outlaw? Sub?

[wintry solar]

dont play coy

its unbecoming

[jagged plover]

doesn't hunter have like omega giga variance

[vivid vessel]

thats why we vanish every 20s

[cinder relic]

In a 10 second damage window yeah

[vivid vessel]

ok im gonna be honest here right

there is a lot of rng stuffs that upset me about outlaw

but having 1 in 1000 vanish

wheere you bte once or twice cause 0 procs

that aint really one of them

[wintry solar]

thats an exaggeration

[vivid vessel]

is it

[covert kestrel]

popo's takes causing guy and zac to be on the same side, thats how cooked they are

[wintry solar]

its every other subt window I dont get ace procs

[jagged plover]

lowrolling always sucks but highrolls wouldn't feel as good without them, usually

[wintry solar]

what take?

that subt sucks?

[vivid vessel]

you prolly get 2 ace proc per window in average i would think

and even then

what is wrong about not getting procs

i dont even care

thats why i hold ps for the windows tho

thats my lil feelgood minmax

[cinder relic]

If you always got procs, procs wouldnt feel good

[covert kestrel]

we hate deterministic shit here

[spare lake]

Is there any idea or info on what’s coming for rework

[covert kestrel]

GIMME THAT DOPAMINE

[spare lake]

Roll the copium

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/kombucha-tea-girl-drink-hmm-no-well-gif-16080897

[wintry solar]

I dont want more procs

I do I mean

[spare lake]

U want more procs that are less rng

[vivid vessel]

hm

[merry venture]

Hey my fellow m8's
just want to ask something corious what is makin' me think.

Can someone explain me why i do lesser dmg in chainpulls, than normals pulls?

[wintry solar]

I need to calm down

thats not what I meant

[vivid vessel]

what we being upset at now

[keen belfry]

Send at 6+ in stealth

[vivid vessel]

takem

[mighty pivot]

once in a lifetime experience

[cinder relic]

I just hate RTB costing combo points

[wintry solar]

I need these gone yesterday

[vivid vessel]

bro smae

[cinder relic]

BTE being a debuff too

Sick of that

[spare lake]

Could just be bad rng / rolls but naturally shouldn’t be a huge difference

[cinder relic]

Hopefullyt hey fix that soon

[vivid vessel]

bte being a debuff def need to be gone

[wintry solar]

idek what the take was other than hating subt

[vivid vessel]

like

is this 2020 or what

[devout garden]

Whats wrong with UUH?

[merry venture]

yeah but at chain pulls i have massive dmg downs and my dps doesn't go as high as it should be

[cinder relic]

Honestly biggest thing they need to fix is the bad luck protection with legendaries

[wintry solar]

the reason we're tuned for +90% adr uptime

and making loss of uptime even worse

[mighty pivot]

no the reason uptime loss hurts so bad is that the spec plays like dogshit outside of AR and that's irrelevant to the expected uptime

[wintry solar]

because why

we're gonna go through the steps here

[vivid vessel]

thats the type of people i hate arguing with

the dumb ones

[mighty pivot]

if outside of AR the spec played semi decently losing AR wouldn't feel like a death sentence

[vivid vessel]

popo

you tell me right

why does outlaw need to feeel like shit out of adr when you have 100% uptime on adr

[glass mortar]

gm zac

[proven ocean]

Is it cooked popo again or

?

[vivid vessel]

what is the purpose here

[mighty pivot]

popo put the wrong spices in his borgir yesterday

[vivid vessel]

it doesnt matter for tuning you are event expected to be out on paper anyway

[gaunt phoenix]

Popopopopo

[devout garden]

Overall our early and middle tree needs changes cuz no way sub and outlaw still has utility nodes that leads to baseline stuff and costs so much points. Like i dont have any utility in spec tree on my enh sham or ww monk

[vivid vessel]

hi sololololo

gm

[gaunt phoenix]

helo

[wintry solar]

why would blizz give you a buff to maintain and keep you decent when youre out of it? Theyve never done that ever

[mighty pivot]

why do outlaws say "grand melee" to each other must be a cult thing

[vivid vessel]

because there is no reason to be trash outside

it doesnt affect tuning cause we have 100% expected uptime anyway

[wintry solar]

but thats not how blizzard tunes stuff

[mighty pivot]

wdym if AR was a 10-15% damage gain then it would still be very much worth to maintain

[vivid vessel]

maybe they are wrong then

[wintry solar]

they are

this is known

[vivid vessel]

ok fix that

[wintry solar]

yeah I'll walk up to John Blizzard and tell him that

[vivid vessel]

dont be mad about the fun stuffs when the issue isnt the fun stuffs but just the way it was implemented

[wintry solar]

uhuh isnt fun

[vivid vessel]

[wintry solar]

what about it is fun

ive been trying to like it since it came out and people keep saying its fun

[vivid vessel]

i press more buttons and i feel rewarded playing good

[wintry solar]

but how?

[cinder relic]

Its fun to play a spec and feel rewarded for playing good

[mighty pivot]

uhuh isn't fun because of how the spec relies on AR (too much)

[wintry solar]

when does it get fun zac?

[cinder relic]

same reason any of these types of mechanics are fun

[vivid vessel]

lol

i do have an answer to that

[cinder relic]

SAme reason old breath was fun, old STM

[vivid vessel]

but you wont like it

popo

outlaw isnt fun at all when you suck at it

that i will give you

[glass mortar]

uhuh sucks eggs

[wintry solar]

to you everyone sucks

[devout garden]

How is UUH have anything with adr uptime

[vivid vessel]

outlaw gets fun when you get good at it

[glass mortar]

just decouple this thing from chaining stealths and im happy

[devout garden]

Its not there

[mighty pivot]

sorry you hate everything popo 🕉️

[glass mortar]

or give us so much overkill adr that we r always 100% uptime even when the game fuks u over

[fluid iron]

what if im moderately okay at it, but still hate it?

[cinder relic]

Have u read the talent?

[glass mortar]

like current fatebound tier

[vivid vessel]

you dont count cuh

[wintry solar]

it pauses in subterfuge

[vivid vessel]

sub one trick

talking about outlaw

[fluid iron]

fair

[devout garden]

Brother i know i just dont understand what popo is trying to say

[wintry solar]

that its not fun

[wintry solar]

I hate 2 things

[mighty pivot]

uh oh, mods be ready

[wintry solar]

I already said it

servers offline

[glass mortar]

popo hates how shit outlaw feels outside adr. it feels shit because its designed to be in adr for 100% of the fight (or close to it) in a perfect world. UHUH is how it achieves this adr uptime

before we had uhuh we had like 50-60% (sometimes up to 70%) uptime depending on the season and design

[vivid vessel]

nah but the thing is

they absolutely didnt need to redesign how outlaw was getting energy

outlaw would still be exactly the same but wouldnt feel like dog out of adr

also

i wanna say something

[devout garden]

Our energy gain was gutted a while ago yeah

[wintry solar]

they didnt but they did and its stupid and I hate it

[vivid vessel]

i dont even think this whole energy thing is uuuh fault

because on this patch

they "reworked" energy for all 3 specs

sub also lost all its energy

[proven ocean]

XDXD

[vivid vessel]

all 3 specs sudenly didnt have access to vigor baseline etc

[proven ocean]

zac

Arguing with casuals

[vivid vessel]

its legit all an accident

[proven ocean]

Is diabolical

Ngl

[random stirrup]

If outlaw didn’t feel bad outside AR I feel like maintaining it wouldn’t be as rewarding. They could easily make the energy and gcd thing baseline and make AR a static 30% damage increase or something but when I think about that it makes maintaining AR (think like last second refreshes) feel so bland

[vivid vessel]

maintaining 0.8s gcd isnt enough?

what we talking about here

[mighty pivot]

how would a 10% damage increase on average not feel rewarding to maintain?

[random stirrup]

“if the energy and gcd was baseline”

[vivid vessel]

mroe like 20 no

prolly more

its 20% more gcd right

[random stirrup]

well it would a bit but having it fall off wouldn’t feel that bad no?

[vivid vessel]

surelly thats just 20% more damage

[mighty pivot]

I am not talking about now, I am talking about how it could've been tuned

[random stirrup]

Compared to drowning without energy and long gcd

[glass mortar]

i wish outlaws lows were me pressing SS simulator and my meter looking bad

not me barely playing the game

thats all i want them to fix

[vivid vessel]

no but im just talkiing about the gcd tho

[proven ocean]

True

[proven ocean]

True

[mighty pivot]

rn it's 50% extra energy regen, plus attack speed (which is also more energy) plus the gcd. It just does too much

[wintry solar]

im sorry yall

[vivid vessel]

i mena it should just be the gcd + enough energy income to support more butons press

like it always been

[sweet iron]

how come dk went through several iterations of breath on ptr and ks was just take it or leave it

[vivid vessel]

rogue dev likes to go afk

[proven ocean]

[glass mortar]

the only logical explanation is they didnt have time

anything else i will not speak

we got asked to make a whole ass feedback thread and we did

[vivid vessel]

they never have time

[wintry solar]

well you see KS needed an "expansion level" change so they just put a bandaid on it

[glass mortar]

and they ignored it

[mighty pivot]

they vanish irl

[vivid vessel]

maybe its time to allocate time

[glass mortar]

its fine

they were future proofing

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

[glass mortar]

i hope someone archived that thread so we can repost it in 12.0

since nothing changed

[strong halo]

I’m just shocked I though they would do like 3 more buffs / nerfs they’ve legit done nothing

I doubted you all

I’m sorry

[vivid vessel]

it got deleted

[glass mortar]

i shoulda copy pasted the stuff from it

[strong halo]

I called Zac a doomer week 1

[proven ocean]

it got deleted

[strong halo]

I’ll repent for my sins

[glass mortar]

it was just bad coms from them or something internally idk we will never know the real reason

it certainly is funny to ask us in here to make a feedback post and then dont react to basically any feedback

i think the only aspect of it our feedback changed was making it target stuff in front of u instead of 360 degree randomness

[proven ocean]

I doomed when outlaw was good in s3 DF because i knew they wont maintain it and everything will get fked one way or another and it eventually did

[glass mortar]

but even that was only halfway to what people wanted (it to just shoot one guy)

[strong halo]

Usually they do 2-3 tunings after RWF, but max said everything was well tuned so I get they thought that was good enough

In red pilled now I really do believe they look at 1st page of Warcraft logs and wait for max to speak

[proven ocean]

Max always talks based on how he wants the game and he has 10 devs listening to his stream to make changes on them

When half of what he says is brainless

No offense to the guy but he says it for yapping purposes and devs dont understand that

[random stirrup]

I have hope there will be a patch to buff underperformers and maybe address bm

[strong halo]

I can’t fucken believe I agree with Ross

[proven ocean]

Or maybe hes serious and he doesnt understand half the class’s and how they work

[strong halo]

He only cares about rwf tuning tbf

[random stirrup]

I have relentlessly memed max saying rogue was squishy at the end of race

Crazy statement

[proven ocean]

Because it is

[random stirrup]

not in raid

[strong halo]

Compared to what lmao

[proven ocean]

Yes it is lol

[wintry solar]

they design outlaw via target dummy

it all makes sense

[proven ocean]

I literally talk about that all the time

And people dont play other classes

And talk without thinking

[random stirrup]

I do play other classes

[fluid iron]

there is only 1 thing rogue is squishy to in raid, and its dots

[proven ocean]

Max knows about squishy/tank classes more than anyone

[fluid iron]

or if they decide for feint to not work on it

[glass mortar]

sin and sub are pretty squishy to big hits u cant block with feint wall

even with elusiveness

[vivid vessel]

i felt kinda squishy on nexus king

[glass mortar]

they have a long cd on evasion

outlaw is never squishy anywhere imo

but i could see it for sub and sin

[gaunt phoenix]

zero you should go back to tom&jerry pfp...

[random stirrup]

He specifically said it was squishy on Dimensius and I literally payphone the entire fight while people are fighting for their lives

[proven ocean]

Why

U miss it or

[vivid vessel]

its p3

[gaunt phoenix]

cause it's better

[proven ocean]