I mean combat specifically
#outlaw
fathom bramble
The old days of old
wintry solar
Outlaw still in Elementary school lol
Delete outlaw tbh
Can't stand the abuse
We can make it work...
mighty pivot
outlaw needs 2-3 more years to become older than combat ever was while it existed
wintry solar
That's crazy arrr
mighty pivot
let's hope popo won't get dementia before that day
mighty pivot
26 when you stopped counting
mighty pivot
leech GM
keen belfry
outlaw buffs when
mighty pivot
next expansion
solid kelp
was mastery the same in legion?
solid kelp
imma do click-autoattack build then 
mighty pivot
has been since cata I think?
wintry solar
I think mastery was the best stat in mop remix for outlaw
solid kelp
you remember the name of that df open world activity where you could stack some crazy amount of mastery? dam was insane
civic zephyr
Time to level every NE class
blissful idol
is it a bad idea to add a new rtb buff that uncaps blade flurry?
cinder relic
yes]
wintry solar
And QoL that's situational or random is no good
magic shuttle
Based
copper radish
they should have made the cata conversion for boots on all classes the wraps % inc boots
heavy mason
vast mauve
is it horrible to play OTL in keys with only warr and shammy buff?
worldly shale
is it horrible to play OTL in keys with only warr and shammy buff?
its horrible with whoever u play with
tender wedge
I mean if you had to pick two those are the best two
I’d be stoked to have both on a reliable basis tbh
vast mauve
I mean if you had to pick two those are the best two
id love monk buff aswell but i cant go with a monk on a daily
tender wedge
We’d all love our own pet phys comp but yeah
Thankfully warrior and shaman are both meta so it’s a bit more common to get one or both this season
I wouldn’t say it’s horrible to play without since it doesn’t effect how the spec plays
But you definitely look at details like “man I must be playing bad this key” then remember you’re missing 10% damage because you’re a cool spec that brings no self buff but benefits more than anyone else from other buffs
junior coral
I didn’t play s1 or 2 this xpac, but it sounded like outlaw was good last season. Was the dmg profile the same?
frail veldt
no we had more prio damage last season
junior coral
When did they start making classes have funnel dmg? That’s this xpac right
I don’t recall aoe getting converted into target dmg before
frail veldt
a long time
the concept of funnel has been around for a while
any spec that gets resources from having adds preset technically has funnel
and that has been a thing since like classic
lol
tanks had funnel just due to rage generation
junior coral
No I get that, but say havocs funnel where x dmg goes into target
frail veldt
idk
proven ocean
@vivid vesselzac @hollow temple is saying outlaw rng is not that huge and its like 5%, can u link him where outlaw is below tank dps?
frail veldt
<@352916297262301194>zac <@629463378250956810> is saying outlaw rng is not that...
notricks is right
its 4.8%
proven ocean
on perfect rotation
hollow temple
proven ocean
mewo
hollow temple
Sit
glass mortar
outlaws variance is heavily normalized by fight duration
proven ocean
ur the most cooked person on the planet
frail veldt
outlaw being below tank
proven ocean
dont even talk about outlaw
frail veldt
has nothing to do with bad rng
glass mortar
variance goes up massively on like 1-2m pulls
proven ocean
u dont understand anything ngl
vivid vessel
Cause outlaw rng from moment to.moment is big
proven ocean
ye
vivid vessel
Compared to over a 5 min fight
glass mortar
if u have a 40s pull
variance is insane
a 5m sim never doesnt have rp for an entire combat
hollow temple
Doesn’t matter
hollow temple
Yes, sit
hollow temple
vivid vessel
you both are cooked so you both should sit
proven ocean
stfu zac
hollow temple
Zeross sitting: 
vivid vessel
hasty warren
when outlaw buff
frail veldt
to like 9.9%
glass mortar
to like 9.9%
ye it like doubles on super short fights
proven ocean
u dont know how to read sims its fine mewo
frail veldt
u dont know how to read sims its fine mewo
youre so bad at explaining what youre saying you just sound like a dog yapping
frail veldt
u jumped in without knowing the context
I answered the fact
proven ocean
nah
frail veldt
notricks is right
proven ocean
u dont know what we're talking about
frail veldt
it has <5% stdev
frail veldt
pose the question better thats not my fault
frail veldt
bad dog
proven ocean
just gonna block you ur always like this till u relax one day
frail veldt
vivid vessel
frail veldt
dense bolt
gaunt phoenix
zeross ending every argument with "stfu i cba"
hollow temple
proven ocean
nah u dont understand solo
gaunt phoenix
Why can't we be civil
proven ocean
he does this all the time
its just out of context now
cuz its not too big rn
whatever fact is true he always types the opposite
idk if its intended or not
vivid vessel
zeross
idk why i joined wox stream just to see him do half the damage of his hunter in st
boss at 40%
proven ocean
idk why i joined wox stream just to see him do half the damage of his hunter in ...
nah outlaw rng is 4%
vivid vessel
he actually finished the boss like that btw
proven ocean
remember?
vivid vessel
he low rolled but like
even low rolling i dont think outlaw should be doing half of hunter st
maybe cooked take
MAYBE
craggy quiver
Dr br is fun
worldly shale
even if he was 4m, which he prob wouldnt be with perfect rolls
craggy quiver
Maybe doing dmg is fun
worldly shale
it would be low
craggy quiver
Dunno I'm having fun playing it lol
vivid vessel
who is dr br
craggy quiver
Dr bm
worldly shale
br br patapim
craggy quiver
My bad xd
tender wedge
I think one of the culprits is the huge gap between fate and trick with ST vs AoE damage
Assass has the same issue with fate vs ds
The specs that do well are always always always good at both with just one talent setup or very minor changes
grim spear
708 ilvl bm in pug doing like 6m st dps
frail veldt
nah outlaw rng is 4%
4.8%
grim spear
I think one of the culprits is the huge gap between fate and trick with ST vs Ao...
but even if we run a pure st build in m+, our st is still trash.
tender wedge
Yeah we are uniquely doing it rough in the tuning aspect too 🥲
grim spear
wintry solar
It only rains on me
The cost of being the main protagonist on Earth
Where does this go?
Should I forgo it and call it weight reduction?
gusty dew
Fuck blz
buoyant cosmos
Where does this go?
Reminds me of the neck to a wiper fluid reservoir
mighty pivot
what is popo destroying this time
wintry solar
It connects to the air intake cabinet but I've no idea who took it out so idk how to put it in
wintry solar
what is popo destroying this time
Sisters 4 wheeler
I replaced the starter and now I can crank it but only by connecting the terminals on the solenoid
mighty pivot
yes I know some of these words
wintry solar
I replaced the starter and now I can crank it but only by connecting the termina...
With a screwdriver
latent panther
High level rogue gameplay:
grim spear
errant canopy
I really don't understand unseen blade
watched and read all the guides
none the wiser
(dumb person)
latent panther
its because you can't see an unseen blade
grim spear
latent panther
but it all ties into your coups, so 4 unseen blades = 1 coup (2 coups with tier) which increase stacks of flawless form which means big crackshot windows
latent panther
the goal is to not waste unseen blade procs, which is easier said than done, especially when they have a chance to proc twice
wintry solar
How about just change it back using feint to trigger?
I bet we wouldn't have as many issues
buoyant cosmos
With a screwdriver
Does the power run through the ignition switch? Could be a place to check for voltage if it's not making it to the solenoid/relay
wintry solar
Yeah I already checked. All that is working
I think it just might be the solenoid but the starter and solenoid going bad at the same time? Idk
buoyant cosmos
I think it just might be the solenoid but the starter and solenoid going bad at ...
Can you feed it power and see if it clicks?
mighty pivot
misssed a lot of drama today
if it makes you feel any better it was the usual suspects
wintry solar
Via the ignition?
wintry solar
It clicks
frail veldt
it clicks but the starter doesnt engage?
wintry solar
Before I replaced the starter, I had to use a screwdriver on it and tap the starter
wintry solar
it clicks but the starter doesnt engage?
Starter clicks too
frail veldt
hmm
sounds like its just not getting enough amps
and you said the starter works if you just direct connect it past the solenoid?
wintry solar
That's right
buoyant cosmos
Via the ignition?
I just use alligator clips from the battery when testing stuff I know uses 12v
frail veldt
so the solenoid isnt allowing enough past
wintry solar
Hm
frail veldt
but yeah sounds like bad solenoid contacts
wintry solar
I should clean them and see
frail veldt
that high voltage that goes through the solenoid can cause pitting
strong cargo
This is compared to antenna ST. Any reason these trinkets win ? I thought Hunters trinket + antenna were bis
frail veldt
so those contacts go bad over time
wintry solar
Do you know how healthy the battery is?
I don't. I know It hasn't been swapped in a while
While being years
At least 3
frail veldt
yeah could be either tbh
buoyant cosmos
You could try a jump pack or your car and see if it just doesn't have the amps anymore
frail veldt
got a multimeter?
wintry solar
I do not
tender wedge
This is compared to antenna ST. Any reason these trinkets win ? I thought Hunter...
Are you simming against your current heroic track antenna?
mighty pivot
popo getting live coached 
frail veldt
ye
buoyant cosmos
I used it before I got my fluke
strong cargo
Are you simming against your current heroic track antenna?
Wait I had Trickster talents, I am simming with mythic hunter+antenna 723
frail veldt
I would test the voltage drop across the solenoid
and check the voltage of the battery itself
if voltage is dropping too much across the solenoid that means that theres high resistance inside of its contacts
which can lead to the starter not working unless you jump over the solenoid
should be like <0.5v drop across it
tender wedge
Wait I had Trickster talents, I am simming with mythic hunter+antenna 723
The dimensius trinket did get buffed, but it’s also like eye of kezan and needs time to stack up.
Bit troll putting those trinkets on last bosses
gaunt phoenix
As trickster both of those trinkets look better cuz your st is so low
strong cargo
Yeah they are downgrades with real talents, my bad
gaunt phoenix
and the power budget of those trinkets is most independent of your own dmg
they are still fairly decent as fatebound
wintry solar
It could be just the battery since it's been sitting here for about 2 months now that I think about it
No because it starts
Multimeter inc
frank bane
Pro tip: If your mage is not dropping a port, spam your hearthstone in front front of them so they get the hint. Works 10/10 times. 🙂
ocean lodge
That's how you get dalaran cratered
mighty pivot
i just hs in front of the portal to assert dominance
covert kestrel
Pro tip: If your mage is not dropping a port, spam your hearthstone in front fro...
I don't take mage portal cause it's further from the center of dalaran and almost never need to hearth again in 15 mins
buoyant cosmos
It could be just the battery since it's been sitting here for about 2 months now...
Do you have jumper cables handy? That's the easiest way to test the battery.
craggy quiver
Sad af bro I don't even break 5.3m in sim atm on otl
Damn just looked at simc we down from 5.8 to all the way down 5.4
torpid fiber
Wait I think on simc the bottom 3 ST specs are literally all 3 rogue specs 
All the other dps specs below outlaw are alt builds of specs with higher dps builds
craggy quiver
Solo uncooked us
next thunder
Question about crafting embelishments: If I have 2x elemental focusing lens already, then do I just apply a secondary embelishment like Nullstone next? Or do I have to use griftah's powder because all i can have are 2 embelishments.
mighty pivot
you cannot have more than 2. Either your new crafts should have no emb, or you need to recraft one of the lens ones to have none
red zinc
interesting profile you got there 
mighty pivot
what is up with spriests simming so high but being dogshit on fract? 
frail veldt
what is up with spriests simming so high but being dogshit on fract? <:Susge:894...
good question
leme ask the disc
haha
oh wtf
people are playing voidweaver on that fight
its possible halo doesnt hit frac?
mighty pivot
I can see archon spriests who have halo hits
frail veldt
dont tell me this is archon
torpid fiber
I can see archon spriests who have halo hits
Might be inconsistent
spare lake
im trying to look into making an alt and im just googling dps tier lists lol
frail veldt
I can see archon spriests who have halo hits
hmmm
I ran a shorter archon sim, 3 min, but still performs well
spare lake
its on u gg
frail veldt
so timing isnt a factor
frail veldt
im trying to look into making an alt and im just googling dps tier lists lol
I have no idea how that cooked tier list was made
spare lake
that seems more like it
torpid fiber
It's because trickster is only played on bosses where it gets insane value, I assume
frail veldt
It's because trickster is only played on bosses where it gets insane value, I as...
aaaaaaaaaaaah
thats totally what it is
cuz they dont combine the hero talents
ocean lodge
promise to make enemy fx telegraphs better
white outline that goes under white sand sometimes
tidal hawk
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
red zinc
I have no idea how that cooked tier list was made
Might unironically be average dps on a boss for each boss added up and divided by 8 to get an average dps number
Which is insanely weighted towards aoe and even worse than how wcl does it
frail veldt
Might unironically be average dps on a boss for each boss added up and divided b...
I think its what @torpid fiber said
which is that since no one plays trickster on the fights that its bad on
it appears to only top the meters
or at least do very well
and there might not be any other hero talents that are used as exclusively as trickster is for outlaw
or at least that dont overperform so much on a tiny niche for padding
cuz trickster is really just padding on ads not even actually doing well
soulhunters is outlaws only good fight
long barn
Whats the best Tiertary stat for outlaw
Leech or speed?
I mean how much leech would you need to be even effective in M+
hybrid crown
Its really kinda subjective. Avoidance is the right answer but I think leech is awesome so I try to stack it
torpid fiber
Speed is probably fake on outlaw bc we already have so much mobility that it's going to be a lot rarer it gets you more dps/safety than on 100% speed sprcs
long barn
avoidance too with feint?
i mean the leech is cool but i cant imagine how much you need to get good
anyone know?
like how much healing does it really do?
hybrid crown
I think for outlaw especially you can argue that leech is better since we are super tanky for aoe damage already
proven ocean
Speed is probably fake on outlaw bc we already have so much mobility that it's g...
Leech is also fake because of soothing darkness
Avoidance is usually the best
Assa suffers the most from avoidance based dmg in m+, outlaw suffers from none
Sub likes leech and avoidance
Mostly avoidance tho
long barn
ok cool
keen belfry
hybrid crown
But avoidance esp if doing big boy keys
proven ocean
Never leech on rogue its omega troll in high keys
Avoidance omega necessary on assa
Outlaw doesnt care rly eitherway but ye avoidance best value no cappy
hybrid crown
If you want sick af outlaw healing parses tho
proven ocean
I think for outlaw especially you can argue that leech is better since we are su...
Leech is fake ur constantly in soothing darkness
With healer’s healing ur pretty much immune to all rot dmg in the game
torpid fiber
📎
hybrid crown
Yeah that's why avoidance is better for sure
quaint mauve
is sacred toll considered aoe
proven ocean
And u can ignore pressing feint on outlaw if u have high avoidance
proven ocean
is sacred toll considered aoe
Yes
gaunt phoenix
!def
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <
hybrid crown
I just like leech it's more fun
quaint mauve
i wonder how much avoidance i have
proven ocean
Leech is fine
quaint mauve
i rolled pretty well on tertiaries
proven ocean
Avoidance is only required on assa in omega high keys thats all u need to know
Because u just die to aoe dmg even WITH feint
quaint mauve
on outlaw now that i learned …. evasion gets cdr
i don’t die
at all
granted my keys aren’t omega high
but like my healthbar wasn’t moving in 16 halls
torpid fiber
Butterfly is legit such a fun talent ngl
wintry solar
It's just cdr on evasion
slate forge
and feint
wintry solar
Yes and feint
torpid fiber
It's just cdr on evasion
Yeah and evasion is fun
quaint mauve
bro
i just ran a 10 for vault
on my monk
and
66 deaths
no wipes
not a single time do we wipe
and we rack up 66
rotund zodiac
Elusiveness gaming
frail veldt
its prob not even remotely done yet
frail veldt
would you do anything with that info other than doom?
wintry solar
Yeah
wintry solar
I need closure to see if they're not actually creatively bankrupt
old gull
I need closure to see if they're not actually creatively bankrupt
best to set expectations low buddy
So you’d be stoked if they do something cool
wintry solar
Supercharger having that name makes me uneasy
wintry solar
<:garf:1320173032743899157> best to set expectations low buddy
They are
But I want to see
With my eyes
old gull
(Me too)
quaint mauve
I need closure to see if they're not actually creatively bankrupt
rework scrapped we remain unchanged
wintry solar
My heart says that's not far from the truth
old gull
I foresee some mastery tweaks and roll the bones rework that’s it
wintry solar
Hmmm
Yeah rtb rework, kir rework and that's it.
None of the actual issues are looked at
Uhuh in its entirety stays
Hell probably an energy nerf again
old gull
None of the actual issues are looked at
This :<
wintry solar
I'm glad I have a witness for Thursday when I say I called it lol
Either I called it or I'm wrong so either way I win
old gull
I don’t know shit, I just wanna be pleasantly surprised
Me subscribing every month to a game that makes me mad
wintry solar
I'll look at it with an open mind regardless
wintry solar
Me subscribing every month to a game that makes me mad
Preach
quaint mauve
im stuck at club meeting instead of playing wow i feel so miserable
@wintry solar save me
still shard
So, does the alpha’s gonna drop with the rework right out of the gate?
still shard
Sounds good, only a few days left, hopefully it won't be a huge disappointment.
wintry solar
<@530563212093947914> save me
Cant
Or won't
Rather
If outlaw ain't worth playing wow ain't worth playing
All the breaks I've taken were from Outlaw being bad
Or combat
modest tiger
swapping to outlaw for loomi. Do we blow prism at full stacks?
quaint mauve
If outlaw ain't worth playing wow ain't worth playing
true i don’t wanna do more 60 death brew keys
and apparently im uhh
fathom bramble
If outlaw ain't worth playing wow ain't worth playing
very true
even going through specs that some people say are like outlaw or as fun as outlaw everything just comes up short
indigo token
frail veldt
My heart says that's not far from the truth
nah I think the two options are either a banger rework or were entirely gutted and just become a piratey fury warrior
fathom bramble
or we stay exactly the same
frail veldt
nah
fathom bramble
except 2 charges of AR
frail veldt
I think the odds we stay the same are very very very low
frail veldt
unlikely
with all the talk theyve made theyre gona do some overhauls of stuff
question is whether they do a good job
wintry solar
wishful thinking
well both
We know classes are getting changes
in the first phase of alpha
frail veldt
So, does the alpha’s gonna drop with the rework right out of the gate?
its entirely possible outlaws rework isnt in the alphayet
wintry solar
I dont believe that tbh
frail veldt
why
wintry solar
because we know class changes are in phase 1
fathom bramble
if it's not at least in the alpha then it'll either be a mini-rework or be hilariously undercooked
frail veldt
oh how do you know that
wintry solar
they released the phases for alpha and class changes are in phase 1
fathom bramble
worldly juniper
cinder haven
if it's not at least in the alpha then it'll either be a mini-rework or be hilar...
This is my fear
worldly juniper
This guy knows something I dont
fathom bramble
it's also possible that apex talents won't be visible at all until phase 4
so we won't get a full picture of the class changes
wintry solar
so we won't get a full picture of the class changes
thats a good point tbh
fathom bramble
or they just get datamined all the same
it seems that their plan is for each of these phases to last a week though
so I would imagine most if not all of the content is ready and this is just how they want to test it
hollow bloom
if it's not at least in the alpha then it'll either be a mini-rework or be hilar...
Mini-rework that the community will look at and be like “wtf? Faint rotation again?” Or ya “we didn’t have time….that and we dont have an actual person on the team that plays the class”
wintry solar
its not unlike them to release a revamp thats not completely cooked
fathom bramble
I will be deeply confused if they manage to try and design feint as a dps button again
wintry solar
I see the vision
but
really? another builder?
you ever think they regret making outlaw like this?
with all these moving parts
fathom bramble
I think if they did they probably would have removed a moving part instead of adding more
wintry solar
I guess so considering what they said about us
fathom bramble
idk everytime it comes up it is in the context of their ui improvements
it has nothing to do with our apm or skill cap
wintry solar
no no ofc not
fathom bramble
only with how bad the base ui is(was) for displaying this spec
wintry solar
well
cinder haven
I have a funny feeling they see the wa dependency as our fault, no theirs
frail veldt
I have a funny feeling they see the wa dependency as our fault, no theirs
well then that would imply they are gona change nothing?
cinder haven
Oh they will
frail veldt
well how will they reduce our wa dependency then?
or youre saying theyre gona do more stuff
like UB?
cinder haven
The solution is obviously more hidden auras
frail veldt
jfc
wintry solar
that buff guy in the midnight interview said that he knows players like the skill it takes for some specs but he says they dont believe its the best experience people can have. Ver batim
the bigger guy. not buff
frail veldt
thats like giga worst case scenario
UB is prob my least favorite thing about outlaw rn with the current 2/4pc lol
also
jokes on them
WE STILL TRACK IT
lol
with a wa
fathom bramble
UB is prob my least favorite thing about outlaw rn with the current 2/4pc lol
have you had a 2nd hit of UB get so delayed that you manage to cast dispatch before it goes off yet?
frail veldt
I honestly cant imagine how they will privatize something enough for us to not be able to track it
frail veldt
have you had a 2nd hit of UB get so delayed that you manage to cast dispatch bef...
for me its always slower than a gcd
so I either delay my gcd
or risk 35% chance of wasted ub
or whatever the chance is
and just cba
fathom bramble
nice
frail veldt
tbh I usually just delay my gcd
or adjust my finisher condition
for example if I SS at 2 eb with 2 UB stacks and it brings me to 5cps outside of stealth
ill just send dispatch
at 5cps
instead of delay my gcd
I hate delaying it, feels super awful
fathom bramble
I honestly cant imagine how they will privatize something enough for us to not b...
you would have to hide almost all combat events and break WAs entirely
frail veldt
you would have to hide almost all combat events and break WAs entirely
I mean even then
I have eyes
I feel like with clever macros you can stil have was
like unless they want us to have no mechanics
theyre gona have to give us info somehow
right?
cinder haven
Were they not going to disable details?
cinder haven
Sounds like no access to combat log to me
fathom bramble
they have not mentioned any plans to disable details
fathom bramble
but they are making their own dps meter
frail veldt
that would be WILD
smoky lotus
theyre coming out with their own meter, which is a stepping stone to no details
frail veldt
though not thaaat many of my WAs access combat log
fathom bramble
if they get their own boss notifications, cooldown/buff tracker, and dps meter working
frail veldt
95% of them are just buff tracking
fathom bramble
then they can basically disable everything
cinder haven
Let’s hope it’s just their own details
smoky lotus
yeah buff tracking WAs will probably work fine
frail veldt
@cinder haven if for example they removed combat log tracking could you make your KS a macro such that it triggers the 2 EB stacks part of the current trickster WA?
frail veldt
cuz I pressed the button to tell it
smoky lotus
ks cooldown 😄
cinder haven
Macro that runs a script to set a variable for your wa?
frail veldt
yep
wintry solar
isnt it crazy how Midnights biggest feature comes out before the actual release?
cinder haven
Yeah maybe
wintry solar
unless its some technical thing
cinder haven
Have they actually said anything officially about an outlaw rework?
wintry solar
no
cinder haven
If they were doing something big, I think they would have said something
cinder haven
Like if they were making outlaw midrange
wintry solar
which was mentioned in the same interview
cinder haven
Or renaming the spec
wintry solar
yeah that I doubt theyd do without announcing
but a DF style talent revamp nah
which is what I expect tbh
devout smelt
Maybe we can have 3 yd range back
cinder haven
That’s why I think it’s a small rework if anything
wintry solar
yeah for sure
not legion or SL level of work done but talents redone
which tbh is all that should be
outlaw doesnt need a lot to be fun
and work
cinder haven
It’s fun to play already in my book
wintry solar
everytime I see subterfuge and adr pausing my soul dies a little
but ive been open about my dislike for subt and uhuh
hollow bloom
“Outlaw is now a tank spec” my wet dream 
quaint mauve
everyone’s nightmare
wintry solar
my dislike for subt has been a thing before uhuh so naturally I'd dislike Outlaws direction going into DF onward
cinder haven
Having a burst window that enables bte like crackshot is fine imo
wintry solar
for sure
cinder haven
Why it has to be tied into vanish idk
wintry solar
I personally dont think it has to
cinder haven
Why you absolutely have to take certain class talents to do any damage whatsoever
wintry solar
aye
thats for sure an issue blizz has to look at
not just for outlaw but in general
cinder haven
So much power locked in subterfuge
wintry solar
thats all I want
either to be able to talent out of subt or just have it less loaded
if that means talenting out of double vanish then so be it
cinder haven
Idk if it really matters though
wintry solar
to me it does
wintry solar
at the end of the day subt just makes me upset in different ways
cinder haven
Let’s say they spend the whole rework budget on replacing vanish with a new cd
Idk if that makes me happy
Nothing much changes really?
fathom bramble
makes soloing rares marginally more convenient and adds a minor amount of button bloat
cinder haven
I wouldn’t mind that type of change, but not at the cost of fixing real issues
wintry solar
I think it depends on what theyd do with adr and everything else
cinder haven
Damage profile related things being top of my list
wintry solar
ah I see
thats where you and I differ
frankly I dont really care as much about the damage profile as much as I should as long as the gameplay is fun and rewarding without the current friction.
like making crackshot a CD with charges I would like a lot
and adr pausing out of combat or whatever
imagine using a crackshot charge and you dont get ace procs
oof
cinder haven
Doing something about our downtime issues would be nice
wintry solar
as long as its fun in all content im all for it
im open to changes but man I've never been more nervous lol
cinder haven
Being able to benefit from BL would be good
fallow sonnet
How do you guys think outlaw compares in difficulty to play effectively in hard content to other classes? i find it much more punishing and demanding than most other classes ive ever tried out but i feel like i always hear about how its middle of the road and theres other harder specs, idk. tbf ive never played feral druid so idk but ive tried out quite a few classes
cinder haven
How do you guys think outlaw compares in difficulty to play effectively in hard ...
Very hard
wintry solar
its so cringe having outlaw super fun in dungeons and it be aids in pvp
or raid
which is yeah a downtime issue
cinder haven
And not being able to utilize damage amps
Which they keep designing every other fight to have
fathom bramble
I think burst in the game in general is probably too high on some specs
no one should be doing almost all of their damage in a 20 second window and be able to almost go afk until next window
cinder haven
Remove funnel and tone down burst and outlaw suddenly looks a lot better
fallow sonnet
How do you guys feel about the sub comparison? I always hear sub is way harder than outlaw/hardest spec in the game potentially?
i have never played it, but i recently looked into it and practiced st rotation a bit and made macros for it, and i gotta be honest it doesnt seem that crazy to me its mostly just aligning CDs? but ive heard its worse in AOE
fathom bramble
like damage amp fights would be less of a hideous outlier and flat would feel a lot less bad if specs had normal burst windows
torpid fiber
Sub is a very different kind of difficulty
fathom bramble
instead of some specs doing 10x their resting dps lol
fathom bramble
How do you guys feel about the sub comparison? I always hear sub is way harder t...
sub is borderline easy compared to outlaw in the current iteration
fallow sonnet
I just feel like outlaw overwhelms me with how quick it is + how much u have to keep track of to do ideal dps, and the fact that hitting a single key in the wrong order or too early/late can totally DESTROY your dps like no other dps ive ever played in this game
frail veldt
rotationally sub is extremely easy
fathom bramble
you align 3 cds and just do infinite damage with a rotation easier than our average subterfuge window
frail veldt
but sub does need a good amount of mechanic awareness
muted crest
Imagine reseting kyveza with vanish... Injust stopped using it
torpid fiber
outlaw is like 10/10 speed/consistency difficulty but 3/10 pre-mapping fights difficulty
cinder haven
Outlaw is fast paced with a lot of things to track and in the moment decisions
cinder haven
Sub is more about planning
fallow sonnet
Ive never ever seen something so punishing like, i could use all my dps cds on warr and jerk off facing away from the mobs for the full duration and still not drop DPS as much as if i get fucked on AR lol
cinder haven
And executing your burst well
frail veldt
cuz you have other stuff to think about
fallow sonnet
outlaw is like 10/10 speed/consistency difficulty but 3/10 pre-mapping fights di...
fair
fathom bramble
during your burst you need to play almost as well as outlaw must play at all times
wintry solar
Ive never ever seen something so punishing like, i could use all my dps cds on w...
stay tuned for midnight lol
frail veldt
also I would say outlaw has the easiest defensive kit int he game
genuinely
nothing is easier to live on
than outlaw
fathom bramble
and then you have to be aware of the fight well enough to press your cooldowns at good times isntead of bad ones
wintry solar
dk
frail veldt
(except to bleeds) lol
cinder haven
Outlaw once you know it is actually not hard at all
cinder haven
Just takes a long time to learn
frail veldt
I just mean in terms of ease of use
outlaw can just slam feint
almost on cd
it doesnt have to think much
defensively
compared to other specs
torpid fiber
Outlaw is an easy rotation to understand once it clicks but tbh still sometimes hard to execute
also I think we all have a bit of perspective bias bc we play so much law
wintry solar
yeah thats why when people say X spec is easy I just ignore them lol
unless its like bm or ret
fallow sonnet
Honestly I perform well and enjoy raiding with outlaw but i am realllly struggling in m+, my process in getting better there has taken longer, idk why
wintry solar
which is obv easy
fallow sonnet
and then when i feel im doing good we do big pulls and i get to watch hunters and dks do 30m+ DPS lol
fallow sonnet
also I would say outlaw has the easiest defensive kit int he game
THATS very fair yeah its sooo good
frail veldt
and then when i feel im doing good we do big pulls and i get to watch hunters an...
I mean youre never gona beat that
frail veldt
THATS very fair yeah its sooo good
its good to aoe
it dies to ST and bleeds pretty bad
fallow sonnet
cuz rogue in general has good survivability but grappling hook is great
cinder haven
Being unkillable is our super power yeah
fallow sonnet
and if ur FB its pretty hard to ever get hit by any mechanic ever i mean u have 4 grappling hooks lmao
fathom bramble
also I would say outlaw has the easiest defensive kit int he game
movement too
cinder haven
And perma tricks
fathom bramble
even just comparing us to a somewhat fast spec like sub is no contest
hook is infinitely better than step and we have everything up all the time
**I will not be accepting any opinion defending step as a movement skill
fallow sonnet
I love this class so much, plz give us a bit of soft cap AOE instead of full hard cap and a cannonball ability that does big ST dmg and i be happy
fallow sonnet
people are so weird in this game about classes and specs
torpid fiber
Step has some benefits but hook being free target on such a low cd with two charges is just absurd
fallow sonnet
no matter how bad or non ideal smth is on charts or on paper
people will miss out on playing with good players bc theyre so damn spec-classist for some reason
torpid fiber
every other spec in the game would kill for hook I suspect
fathom bramble
after needing to use step on dimmy when hook would have been sooo much more convenient I have now decided that step is bad
and I do not want to use it ever again
fallow sonnet
then inv flavor of the month people who dont know what an interrupt is
how big is the diff between silver quality jumper cables and gold quality ones? do the gold ones never fail?
quaint sable
how big is the diff between silver quality jumper cables and gold quality ones? ...
Cast time is twice as long
trim harbor
!logreview
strong cargo
how big is the diff between silver quality jumper cables and gold quality ones? ...
R1 6s, r2 4s, r3 2s cast
tender wedge
What the fuck was that
wintry solar
A ghost
oOooOOOOOoOooooo
@mighty pivot wordle in 4
Would've been 3 but I misspelled
ripe ibex
vivid vessel
mighty pivot
Would've been 3 but I misspelled
Krill issue. I either got it last try or didn't do it yesterday. I forgor
Are you guys ready for this week's tuning
mighty pivot
Wait for what? Christmas? Midnight release?
wintry solar
Are you guys ready for this week's tuning
I'm ready for this week's alpha build
worldly juniper
I just want milk that tastes like real milk personaly
@vivid vessel What do you sim for ST currently?
worldly juniper
Are sims updated for bugs? or expect less
worldly juniper
a lot prolly
Fair, just want to know how I'm sitting after 1 week playtime :^)
hollow temple
vapid sundial
man hunter really is
jsut payphone
idek whats going on in this keys
just dps
vale warren
<@921608341048930304> what if you cancel aura head if you are about to dispatch
Does mean streak just check the buff or does it keep track of what the last flip was
vivid vessel
true maybe it keeps track
mighty pivot
<@921608341048930304> what if you cancel aura head if you are about to dispatch
Are they even cancelable?
mighty pivot
I bet they aren't
icy cedar
I linked Zac's eco dome +20 in our m+ channel and my friend goes "outlaw looks so much fun pressing all those buttons"
and I'm like so many buttons but they all hit like noodles
mighty pivot
<:CAUGHT:1280607213420806215> idk
I checked and it's flagged to not be cancelable
mighty pivot
You are forced to keep the shitty heads coin
vivid vessel
I checked and it's flagged to not be cancelable
sounds fake to me
mighty pivot
I never lie unlike you
vivid vessel
wtf
vivid vessel
I linked Zac's eco dome +20 in our m+ channel and my friend goes "outlaw looks s...
im topping eco dome tho
icy cedar
true, rock lee weights situation
worldly juniper
im topping eco dome tho <:CAUGHT:1280607213420806215>
Stop though, people think we're good because of you
vivid vessel
being 4 ilvl ahead helps a lot tho
worldly juniper
vivid vessel
i dont even understand this meme kekw
icy cedar
the heart says outlaw sucks but the brain... is examining logs?
vivid vessel
why the heart talking to meta specs
icy cedar
my buddy is more driven mad by Monksea's damage
he's like "why does he hit tiger palm so much?! i don't get it"
pulling his hair out
strong cargo
Why is Shadow priest in this picture 🤔
errant canopy
last season literally every enhancement shaman except elbro was playing totemic, elbro is just too good and was rank 1 enhancement, does that mean stormbringer was better or is elbro just a beast l the next 99 players under him were playing totemic
vivid vessel
he's like "why does he hit tiger palm so much?! i don't get it"
@tough salmon why tiger palm cuh
help him out
vivid vessel
last season literally every enhancement shaman except elbro was playing totemic,...
no one was playting enhnace in s2 no ?
tough salmon
he's like "why does he hit tiger palm so much?! i don't get it"
Spinning useless
vivid vessel
kinda like this season no one could argue outlaw is better than sub (or assa), yet
tough salmon
Shit got nerfed to oblivion on DF
vivid vessel
bro not a spinner
icy cedar
Spinning useless
eyy he legit was like "why doesn't he hit spinning crane kick"
ill pass that on
haughty wigeon
spinning is poopy
vivid vessel
monksea you ever played with the things
haughty wigeon
like how swipe is poopy for bear
errant canopy
i didnt mean to send that
haughty wigeon
and spb is poop 
for vdh
buff spb
pls
blizzard
fuckinggsewakibhawfdbhwajdawd
tough salmon
It does more damage that tigerpalm in high target aoe, but now by alot
vivid vessel
the spinny things
tough salmon
Ye i did zac shit went hard
tough salmon
It does more damage that tigerpalm in high target aoe, but now by alot
But why would you do 12M in aoe when you can do 10M prio damage instead
vivid vessel
tell that to sub players
icy cedar
very wise
tough salmon
Also more brew cdr -> more ox stomps
tough salmon
Does he even do content anymore?
haughty wigeon
good for him
errant canopy
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
mighty pivot
me when a sub player press black powder in arakara
Number go up
mighty pivot
Fix it so wox is number 1
worldly juniper
hahaha
mighty pivot
He is number 1 in our hearts
vivid vessel
Wtfff..
mighty pivot
Nessa #2, Zac 3
mighty pivot
Like 50 because he's afraid of dueling Nessa
vivid vessel
Gg
worldly juniper
698 Cudgel when
mighty pivot
No track stops at that ilvl
cinder relic
LOLOLOL
vapid sundial
Whats funny abt that
people have been saying that since season start
bc zac is a freak
mighty pivot
The politically correct term is "french"
vapid sundial
ye
I said it like 1.5 months ago
he needs to stop playing
so they can actually see it sucks
just playing sub or sin for a bit
so they can fix this shit
lament flume
!FUU
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lime lake
If glorp was our dev we would be blasting
worldly juniper
What's actually causing outlaw ST to sim so high but not actually do that damage, is it just the Fatebound bug?
trim harbor
!logreview
gaunt phoenix
What's actually causing outlaw ST to sim so high but not actually do that damage...
That was added to simc
Now outlaw doesnt sim all that well compared to other specs
But in general perhaps there is a difficulty playing outlaw like the sim
Also outlaw doesnt benefit from lust or kill timers or amps what have you
Like at all
worldly juniper
Idk, it's just weird my outlaws simming 4.9m and my sub/sin is simming 4.2m
Yes I swapped crafted gear to proper stat weights
and everything
mighty pivot
You cannot compare sims of different specs
gaunt phoenix
I mean my fractilus is similar to my sim
I don't think the number is inflated
Idk anything about sin/sub
mighty pivot
And sub is indeed abysmal on PW/fract
worldly juniper
In saying that, I only started up again this week, and it just feels wildly not impactful for the APM
mighty pivot
The rogue devs forgot rogue st existed
haughty wigeon
I mean that’s the point I guess
haughty wigeon
It’s hard to make true high apm specs feel impactful
quiet root
In saying that, I only started up again this week, and it just feels wildly not ...
i mean yeah, but this is probably still the case even if we were slightly above average
haughty wigeon
Your buttons do lil damage but you press a lot of them in short time
Ya it can be tuned to do more damage
But you can’t exactly have all 7 bte in your crackshot window do 20mil each
Outlaw fast death by a thousand gunshot wounds
quiet root
what if only BTEs built with 4 sinister strikes that don't proc ace did 20m
mighty pivot
They do 20m psychological damage to the player
vivid vessel
It’s hard to make true high apm specs feel impactful
I think he just means it does no damage lol
Not that the spells itself feels not impactful
That's just by design can't really change that
But the spec isn't rewarded
Rn
haughty wigeon
Ye for sure
vivid vessel
Just tuning tho
worldly juniper
4:39 heroic pug first boss just went in to test
haughty wigeon
Needs buff
vivid vessel
That's a lot of coins
worldly juniper
yeah 3.65m
Hmm
Obviously it was a long kill though but regardless
heh funny number pistol shot
torpid fiber
It’s hard to make true high apm specs feel impactful
I feel the impact of getting combo points way more than big boom boom damage
I don't look at damage numbers so it's not really like I notice boom boom damage in fights
steel shadow
wait u offhand a dagger?
torpid fiber
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more 
Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, 
Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.
thorny basalt
Yo folks, just woke up from a loooong sleep… did we get buffed and meta or what?
vivid vessel
Still trash go back to sleep
mighty pivot
This guy is about to go in hibernation if he must wait for buffs
mossy lagoon
Hi everyone!
I'm just rolling into outlaw and can't figure out: do I really ignore using ambush and sinister strike is better in any situation?
gaunt phoenix
For the KIR build yeah
you need SS to proc opportunity and higher chance to proc Count the odds
thorny basalt
Hope so, so weird everyday base being bullied in Myth raid
hasty warren
there is a way on wcl to compare hps of a specific heal comp on a boss ?
wintry solar
<@530563212093947914> thoughts?
No thoughts. Head empty.
Had a weird dream I'm not sure how to articulate
vivid vessel
wintry solar
But this channel was turned into a minecraft server and there was a wildfire in game and wiped the channel clean and there was nothing the mods could do.
hasty warren
search icon top right
ty zac
worn lintel
4:39 heroic pug first boss just went in to test
had a thing like that once
i was in awe
pure bliss
(we wiped)
worldly juniper
lol
hasty warren
had a thing like that once
lol
covert kestrel
I can feel them coming
we have to survive the meltdown on thursday first
worn lintel
btw, i heard there was a bug, that the first heads in fatebound wasn't actually registered, and we didn't get the first 10%, is it true ?
vivid vessel
8% ye
worn lintel
Check first pin
oh sorry
torpid fiber
dwdw
errant canopy
play outlaw - i suck
play sub - too hard
play assa - i'm bad
play another class - I absolutely hate it
Why has the rouge class cursed my wow experience like this
vivid vessel
should play minecraft maybe
errant canopy
does it have a rouge class
covert kestrel
just go practice sub opener on dummies for like 1hr, it seems hectic at first but its really dead simple.
errant canopy
i'm decent at sub
pretty ok at assa too except single target
absolutely ass outlaw
vestal notch
So is zac and he gets title every season
jagged plover
vivid vessel
So is zac and he gets title every season
ayo
vivid vessel
is gue something that doesnt exist in the english language
why do people write rouge
errant canopy
english spelling and pronounciation makes no sense
cinder relic
play outlaw - i suck
play sub - too hard
play assa - i'm bad
play another class ...
Learn to play?
covert kestrel
guy woke up and chose violence this morning
daring oxide
errant canopy
Learn to play?
trying my best
cinder relic
guy woke up and chose violence this morning
I woke up in the mist bruh
forest bloom
Wat? Are Outlaw buffs comin?
tough salmon
Yesn't
near rock
I woke up in the mist bruh
go back inside man wtf