outlaw

[copper radish]

Over under on outlaw uncapped for midnight. Whose taking bets

[proven ocean]

So idk what ur point is on that

[severe drift]

my point is : it WOULD be fine if it actually destroyed street-like keys

[proven ocean]

If u played abit of high m+ you’ll understand what i mean by anything being capped isnt good in modern high m+

[severe drift]

I do play a bit of m+, but you can't deny street like keys is a thing since a while like court of stars or city of threads

having capped class is fine, if 1- it destroys those keys and 2, their single isn't crap

[proven ocean]

I will completely deny that because outlaw is dogshit on all of them

Last time city was meta

Outlaw was dog

[sullen walrus]

678 nighfall weapon for aoe or 710 sword?

[wintry solar]

This convo makes me sad

[proven ocean]

Last time court was in the dung pool

Outlaw was dog

[wintry solar]

I'm going to bed now bye

[mighty pivot]

do you need a hug popo?

[proven ocean]

So idk what ur point is here

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[proven ocean]

I understand u want it to pop off on those dungeons

[mighty pivot]

don't we all

[copper radish]

Wish legion keys would come back for midnight. Those were so fun

[proven ocean]

But that will never happen unless it was completely broken

[red zinc]

they definitely will

[sullen walrus]

boys

678 nighfall weapon for aoe or 710 sword?

[red zinc]

so many void related ones in there

[sullen walrus]

xD

[proven ocean]

Math doesnt add up for outlaw to be good there without it being op out of those dungeons

[mighty pivot]

xd yes use 678 cudgel

[jagged plover]

fucking farmed court so long to get a whetstone

[severe drift]

I know english isn't my main language but damn make an effort lmfao. Outlaw needs QoL and damages. Nobody would complain about target cap if we could actually destroy the targets we got. Would make us got tier in keys like street and make our single great again.

[copper radish]

I need my week off work to solely farm 2 trinkets over and over again from the same place

[severe drift]

outlaw is currently shit tho, we all know that

[wintry solar]

I can't wait for that one bfa dungeon

I forget it's name

With naked people

[mighty pivot]

I thought you went to bed

[wintry solar]

Snake people

I woke ip

Up

[proven ocean]

I already pointed out why outlaw isn’t destroying our target count mobs

[mighty pivot]

coomer popo

[proven ocean]

If u read what i @‘ed zac

[wintry solar]

No!

[copper radish]

Kinky

[proven ocean]

Its mainly rtb issues

Being too rng

And why is outlaw bad in meta comps? Target cap

2 different things

[wintry solar]

Temple of Sethraliss

[severe drift]

it could be fixed by various tunings imo

[wintry solar]

Love that one

[proven ocean]

I genuinely dont think so at all

We already have precise cuts

And its incredibly strong

And guess what

[mighty pivot]

the last boss of that one was shit

[proven ocean]

We still suck

[wintry solar]

What's wrong with it

[severe drift]

how many specs do have target caps like us ?

[wintry solar]

Sitting doing nothing is dumb actually

[mighty pivot]

adds spawning in waves = shit boss

[proven ocean]

A pure hardcap none that im aware of

Every class has some spell or 2 that destroys uncap

[wintry solar]

Current outlaw would hate it

Midnight outlaw ???

Tune in Oct 2nd

[mighty pivot]

midnight outlaw will have a talent that is cudgel on steroids

[proven ocean]

Out of all things that i suck at fecale, understanding dmg is not one of them

I think those 2 problems are highly major to outlaw being just extremely behind in m+ atm

[wintry solar]

You just know the devs are going "wow outlaw rogues really like that weapon for some reason"

[mighty pivot]

reminder that we got coup bug as 4p

I can just see cudgel being a talent

[wintry solar]

We can build between coups now

If we weren't in such a rush to vanish all the time, it wouldn't be so bad >.>

Hint hint blizz

[severe drift]

You might be right, I just don't see it as a truly deal breaker as target cap w/ higher damages could destroy priority targets in pack for example.
Uncapping target is the easy fix, doesn't mean having a high damage target cap specs isn't interesting in m+

[copper radish]

Long gone are the days of standing and banging and not having to vanish and adr every 10 seconds

[wintry solar]

[mighty pivot]

ye popo has only been doing the standing part for a long time now

[wintry solar]

I'm actually laying down

Nerd

I wish haste actually effected energy regen

In a meaningful way

[mighty pivot]

why

[wintry solar]

Because it makes sense that it would and the tooltip for haste says it does

That's 2. Want another?

[mighty pivot]

yes

[wintry solar]

Crap

Because I want it and I'm a special little boy

[mighty pivot]

I would rather if the spec was playable without needing X haste to have gcd reduction or enough energy to play smoothly

[wintry solar]

Gcd reduction bit goes without saying.

I think there's a way to make it not so bad but frankly I'm too sleepy to get into so I'll just change my mind.

[mighty pivot]

energy regen does improve meaningfully btw, it's literally the regen multiplied by your haste %

[wintry solar]

Regen low

[vale flame]

do you guys play with cheat or elusiveness for m soul hunters? I like elusiveness for when I pick up tank circles for frailty but I think cheat is better for when I zug into blade dance

[wintry solar]

Buff regen

[mighty pivot]

they could buff combat potency

[wintry solar]

I agree

I'm going to find out how much haste it'll take to make Outlaw feel good out of adr come remix.

This is the sole reason I'm playing outlaw in remix

[mighty pivot]

you can do that now by getting haste gear everywhere

[wintry solar]

More

Need more

"Enough is never enough"

Now I'm just being greedy

[mighty pivot]

ryukage was onto something with his 36% haste build

although that's like ~4 extra energy per second plus whatever extra from more fatal flourish procs

[wintry solar]

I know I'm in the minority

But

I'm more of a fan of the stabbing and slashing than the shooting

[stiff vector]

nah shooting is gigabis

[wintry solar]

The shooting is like your favorite holiday everyday

[stiff vector]

especially since blizzard has decided to make 90% of mechanics melee area denial or some sort

[mighty pivot]

popo is a fake american he doesn't like shooting

[wintry solar]

I'm a competitive shooter

Ape

You pick your nose don't you

[mighty pivot]

no I have others do it for me

[wintry solar]

Well they picked too far

They nicked your brain

[stiff vector]

my mom told me the same thing when I told her I main outlaw rogue

she prob isnt wrong

[mighty pivot]

slashing is better though, but having mid-range damage with crackshot is also nice

[wintry solar]

Makes my dreadblades look like a hood ornament :(

I'd like a balance

[stiff vector]

rip dreadblades

[wintry solar]

Oh weird

Like SL had

Crazy how that works

It's like

[mighty pivot]

that's mostly on FtH being too strong

[wintry solar]

No I'm not glazing SL again

[wintry solar]

Ngl

I wouldn't miss it if they killed it

I don't hate it but I don't really love it

[mighty pivot]

sorry you hate everything popo

[stiff vector]

so you want to go back to shooting 1 shot for 1cp and spamming SS more?

[wintry solar]

I love everything but uhuh and fth but fth I only mildly dislike.

[mighty pivot]

shooting would be 2 because you'd still have opportunity

[wintry solar]

Though with 7cp I feel kinda necessary

[mighty pivot]

with quick draw that is

[stiff vector]

and what would you do about the fact that HO would still be able to easily 1 generator>max cp? It doesnt need fth to gen max cp in 1 gcd

[wintry solar]

I'd like damage back in builders and fth replaced with something we had in the past that I can't remember the name of.

[stiff vector]

fth pretty important to KIR

[wintry solar]

Obviously with the removal of fth, which I'm not advocating for just expressing my mild dislike for it, changes would be made elsewhere in the spec.

[stiff vector]

and I think most of us know how awful it feels playing 1fth...so IDk how fth is "too strong" if the spec feels terrible to play with a nerfed version of fth

[mighty pivot]

the spec plays terribly with 1fth because it's clearly designed to be played with 2fth always

[stiff vector]

so why is there even an option for 2 points, it should be a 1 point node then if its intended design is the 2 point version

[mighty pivot]

but the discussion was about pistol shots being too many

which is due to FtH

it was not about talent balance at all

[mighty pivot]

that's on the rogue designers tbh, all the second last row talents are two pointers but it doesn't necessarily make sense that they take 2 points

[red zinc]

@stiff vector switched to DR bm in keys and doing even more st

[mighty pivot]

on all 3 spec trees

[red zinc]

how is this allowed

[wintry solar]

They're gatekeeping the mythical HO/KiR build from us

I bet our apex talent will be so undertuned that ho/kir will be a slightly worse but still viable build

[mighty pivot]

I gotchu fam

[wintry solar]

Dude

That reminds me of remix builds and how stupid you can make them

What an expensive tree

Stealthless HO coming to a legion remix near you

Gems do the dmg anyway so might as well do whatever

I'm this Outlaw

[mighty pivot]

imagine not using the proper discord icon

[hasty warren]

yarrr

[zealous monolith]

is there an specific reason why the bis guide for rogue on wowhead recommends daggers for the off-hand instead of a 1h wep for outlaw?

[hasty warren]

!dagger

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[hasty warren]

for this

[hybrid crown]

wait didnt the legion tree have a cdr thing

maybe that lets us do weird stuff with outlaw builds

[daring oxide]

bro how would you even play this

[daring oxide]

without FTH

[hybrid crown]

this doesnt have a cd I wonder if you can like only use it out of combat or something

oh its a 2 min cd

nevermind thats kinda booty

[daring oxide]

is that on restless blades?!

[frail veldt]

ofc not lol

[daring oxide]

dam

no fun

BTW

ANY PREDICTIONS FOR THE BIG OUTLAW REWORK 2ND OCTOBER?

I think Killing Spree will turn into a true uncapped aoe bladestorm style button that does extra damage to primary target

[ocean lodge]

That sounds broken for subtlety lol

[ocean lodge]

Dumbed down to ret levels, removed crackshot, maybe kir is gone too

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/reaper-overwatch-ultimate-ultimate-reaper-overwatch-reaper-ultimate-ultimate-overwatch-gif-26919588

mate

if they fucking remove crackshot

[ocean lodge]

Worst case scenario pmuch lol

[daring oxide]

i will crackshot myself

[ocean lodge]

Real.

[daring oxide]

crackshot is literally what makes outlaw the best spec

well one of the reasons

[mighty pivot]

miserably

[ocean lodge]

They'll focus on the tracking being the issue and nuke everything we have to track while not addressing our actual issues

[daring oxide]

i mean thats ok

[hybrid crown]

they should just make that proc randomly and more often as its upgraded

that would be cool

[daring oxide]

get rid of the bloody container

and all the hidden stuff

like nothing should be hidden

thats why we need WAs

[mighty pivot]

vai when tuning?

[daring oxide]

dunno how they even though keeping stuff invisible was a good idea

[daring oxide]

either this friday, or one week before turbo boost goes live

[mighty pivot]

ok I trust

[ocean lodge]

I want my shotgun back

Having greenskin + master assassin in legion was great when you procced a blunderbus

Just delete something with the shotgun

Blunderbus would work great with crackshot, too

[severe drift]

yo what ?

[whole pelican]

Yeah What is there a tuning for outlaw incoming?

[gaunt phoenix]

Who knows

vai is just a hype man

[daring oxide]

Look at Phase 1

[daring oxide]

yeah very soon, date to be decided

[mighty pivot]

it's real

[whole pelican]

xD I see nothing wrong here

[gaunt phoenix]

October 2nd (2026)

[indigo token]

so this is pretty much useless for outlaw

but busted for every other class

[mighty pivot]

october 2nd (according to the usual blizzard calendar)

[keen belfry]

with "class updates" being in phase 1 thing

are we expecting first looks at major class stuff

[gaunt phoenix]

idk

[indigo token]

imagine we get old (pre release) trickster back

[keen belfry]

what if they are adding wow school along side wow housing so they are going to show us what the school classrooms are going to look like

[vivid vessel]

What do we learn in wow school

[indigo token]

how to cope

[mighty pivot]

also wow work, where you work on spreadsheets

[keen belfry]

how to route for your targetr capped outlaw who also does less prio and boss dam than other uncapped specs

[indigo token]

honestly I really dont trust blizzard to handle outlaw

they've been fucking it up all expansion

[daring oxide]

Outlaw rework m8

[keen belfry]

surely they cant keep doing it then

[daring oxide]

blizzard janitor told me

[granite quarry]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[daring oxide]

hard to inflitrate blizzard for insider info but you can pay their office cleaning staff for info

they'll take pictures of their whiteboards and pinup notes around the office

[vivid vessel]

Remember when we thought they couldn't fuck up ks more than it already was

[daring oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1393269994623860887/nah.gif

[keen belfry]

i think this version of KS is .2% better than old KS

[gaunt phoenix]

the fence killed you no?

[mighty pivot]

well they hired a rogue dev now mr. Egak Uyr who will be working on outlaw non-stop

[keen belfry]

yeah i didnt know fence kills

[gaunt phoenix]

grapple vs electric fence

[keen belfry]

noah fence

[gaunt phoenix]

who wins

[vivid vessel]

Eh

It destroyed outlaw damage profile and destroyed trickster

[mighty pivot]

better click recap to check

[vivid vessel]

Idk about 0.2

[keen belfry]

.1?

[vivid vessel]

Noah fence

[vivid vessel]

Margin of error ?

[keen belfry]

it has to be considered "better" but im down for 0.01% better

its like our aoe compared to last tier, we may have gained 40 ilvls but we do same aoe

ks may not kill us anymore but its just as bad

[gaunt phoenix]

guys

i want to forum post

certain feedbacks

[indigo token]

do it

[gaunt phoenix]

i feel like ryu

[mighty pivot]

for mafic?

[indigo token]

theres literally nothing else we can do

[mighty pivot]

who even reads the forums from blizzard

[indigo token]

its hopeless

[daring oxide]

I think your feedback would be vastly more higher quality than Ryu m8

[gaunt phoenix]

the title can be super clickbait Feedback from Head Ravenholdt Theorycrafter

[daring oxide]

can we just DM our feedback to Jade Martin

Yes

[keen belfry]

KS targetting
GS energy
haste? mastery?
trickster feels bricked again
1fth needs to be shot in the head with a pistol shot (that pistol shot needs to generate more than 3 combo points)

[slate forge]

Even Zac gave him forum feedback after he asked for it and then hard ignored it literally no point just ff

[gaunt phoenix]

well

you didnt hear it from me

[keen belfry]

hearing it

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe certain forum posts are being considered

[daring oxide]

Critical Outlaw Feedback from the Lord Commander of Outlaw Ravenholdt Theorycrafting Guild, Admiral Solo of the Outlaws

[slate forge]

“Considering” they haven’t done shit in months of work Ill believe it when I see it

[keen belfry]

they can consider it but not do it right chat

[daring oxide]

They've been really busy working hard on our expansive Outlaw Rework, it'll land on the 2nd of October 2025 so put it in your calendars, I promise 99.9% guarantee it will come on this day

but theres still a 50/50 chance it gets delayed

just to add that as a disclaimer

[slate forge]

Bf back to 5 targets bte now hits random targets like ks

[daring oxide]

doesn't BF already hit random targets in big pulls?

[keen belfry]

one thing, is it dumb we have to talent into BF being 8 targets?

[daring oxide]

BF uncapped

Acro back

Killing Spree uncapped

[mighty pivot]

the feedback thread for their KS rework had several people expressing concern with the length of the channel and the fact that it's random target. Yet both went live mostly untouched (they did change KS to only shoot forwards)

[keen belfry]

like do other specs have to do this

[gaunt phoenix]

they should legit merge precise cuts into ds

[keen belfry]

that would make sense

[gaunt phoenix]

and then we are free from 1fth

[daring oxide]

its likely the devs/dev responsible for our lifeblood went on a long vacation recently, its summer which is the usual window for a nice relaxing holiday in the sunny lands for a nice tequila ice tea

[keen belfry]

i always forget we have to talent into 8 target cap

[inland cairn]

Please free me 1fth is so ass

[daring oxide]

janitor told me

[mighty pivot]

no source is better than a janitor

[slate forge]

Is this vacation number 3 or 4 I lost track at this point

[daring oxide]

well in america

dont you guys have like 10 days of AL per year

[mighty pivot]

don't americans only get like 5 days a year

[gaunt phoenix]

probably more like our devs were told to work on new DH

[daring oxide]

and you all take it in one window

or this too ^

[slate forge]

He confirmed he’s not though

[daring oxide]

OR to focus on our incoming outlaw rework due 2nd oct!

this how i think it may work

[mighty pivot]

the state of rogue/outlaw is not one person's fault

[daring oxide]

they make significant fixes to outlaw design in the midnight rework

[keen belfry]

popo?

his fault

[daring oxide]

and then carry over some of those changes to the retail branch

[mighty pivot]

fuck popo

[daring oxide]

as tuning and fixes to current retail outlaw

[mighty pivot]

mostly his fault tbh

[daring oxide]

no, its zac's fault

he pushed the devs away

[ocean lodge]

"We'd rather you don't play outlaw right now"

[daring oxide]

with his anger

[mighty pivot]

it's funny you say that, when they have screwed up merges of changes several times

[ocean lodge]

"It's outlaw's turn to suck"

[daring oxide]

well thats whats happened, you see at the blizzard hq, they have a tuning tier list of which spec has to take its turn of being the worst spec that tier

outlaw was chosen

to be the loser this tier

we are just part of the rotation

[ocean lodge]

When does ret get a turn

[daring oxide]

well thats the thing

this list is subject to subscription scaling

the more subs the class/spec has attached to it

the more likely they are at the top of the list to be top tier

[mighty pivot]

they have balls with the names of each spec and randomly choose a few each tier to suck

[daring oxide]

because outlaw has a population of 21

[ocean lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/manatees-south-park-gif-22729397

[daring oxide]

we aren't generating good value or income for blizzard shareholders

so we are the least priority

for bugfixes and tuning

[ocean lodge]

Not true

[daring oxide]

they had to make BM hunter OP

because

[ocean lodge]

They nerfed outlaw in pvp before ret or marksman

[daring oxide]

50% of wow population plays zoo hunter

[ocean lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[mighty pivot]

BM could use another 4%

[daring oxide]

so

if they make BM hunters very strong and happy

then they have higher subscription retention

and the shareholders give Ion a pat on the back for sustaining their dividends

thats my theory anyways

and evidence backs it up this tier

[ocean lodge]

How does one enjoy a spec where you watch a snail auto attack harder than you

[copper radish]

Whose got the scoop on alpha

[daring oxide]

all those people who play idle tycoon games?

[ocean lodge]

I do on the second

c:

[daring oxide]

you do on the 2nd oct?

[copper radish]

Vai change ur October 2 deadline bro. It’ll be January 2 knowing blizz

[royal ermine]

I will have access on the 2nd

[ocean lodge]

The second October

[daring oxide]

I will change it when I am disappointed yet again

for now

[copper radish]

It’s coming out October 32

[daring oxide]

im remaining hopeful for the 2nd october

I have everything ready

[mighty pivot]

january 6 outlaw rework

[daring oxide]

got my party food

party drinks

[ocean lodge]

No midnight launches on October 32 IDIOT

[daring oxide]

half a day off

[keen belfry]

interesting date

[daring oxide]

to celebrate the outlaw rework

[ocean lodge]

I'm not optimistic

For outlaw lol

[mighty pivot]

you will do anything for outlaw, right?

[inland cairn]

I thought vai was dooming what happened

[red zinc]

Nobody is getting into alpha

fury warrior player our last hope

[ocean lodge]

Uncapped blade flurry, but you do less damage than tanks now

[red zinc]

[mighty pivot]

if you guys subbed to zac, he'd be in for alpha

[ocean lodge]

Zac could be a chad and only test sub and sin

Just to fuck with us

[daring oxide]

You have to be tbh, O for Optimistic, O for Outlaw, its all part of being Outlaw is being Optimistic one day that our deserved destiny to rise to the top again will come with beautiful deliverance from Realz our lord and Jade Martin our new saviour with his new non-WA gameplay mantra

[mighty pivot]

zac hates assa more than american bread

[daring oxide]

it was already solidly confirmed that Outlaw was getting a rework, alongside unholy DK by Ion himself

and Jade martin

[jagged plover]

O for overdosing on copium

[ocean lodge]

Unholy got leaked

And it isn't good lol

[daring oxide]

I trust Jade Martin in his combat designing prowness, the guy has biceps like NFL footballs, hes built for COMBAT

[ocean lodge]

They retified unholy

[daring oxide]

Show me the leaks

[ocean lodge]

Man this was like a month ago

[daring oxide]

i wanna see these leaks

aare they actual leaks

or snippets blizzard gave us preview to

[red zinc]

He isnt getting in either

[ocean lodge]

Bellular did a thing lemme find it

[red zinc]

was in their press kit vai

Aint no leaks

[daring oxide]

Zac is hated by the devs

[mighty pivot]

bellular

[ocean lodge]

Zac is hated by zac

[daring oxide]

ye but he said leaks init so i was wondering if there was something i missed

[ocean lodge]

I don't care for him either tbf

[slate forge]

O for Oppression leading to Outrage leading to Offensive

[daring oxide]

Tbh if i was a dev i'd hate zac for constantly exposing my mistakes

[ocean lodge]

I'd hate zac if I had a phobia of underscores

[daring oxide]

where is my leaks

[mighty pivot]

I'd hate zac if I couldn't mute his music at times

[daring oxide]

https://open.spotify.com/track/31nfdEooLEq7dn3UMcIeB5?si=ebed982452a94e2a

This song reminds me of Zac

[ocean lodge]

I guess it was just good unholy players dissecting a ss and not a leak

Do you still want it

[daring oxide]

yes

i like to read about these things

[mighty pivot]

this one is good though

[ocean lodge]

You can see right there that abom/garg are mutually exclusive

[mighty pivot]

this was presented at gamescom

[daring oxide]

i think thatsok

I played a bit of UH myself

[mighty pivot]

how is that a leak

[ocean lodge]

I corrected myself that it wasn't just a bit up

[daring oxide]

I think they are trying to reduce cd bloat?

[mighty pivot]

ah ok

[daring oxide]

cos UH when i last played it

had a lot of CD bloat (Sub is probably worse lmao)

poor subs

[ocean lodge]

I liked unholy I just thought the blood pet shit for sanlayn was obnoxious

[mighty pivot]

like, you cannot draw any conclusions based on just that

[daring oxide]

gotta press flag then symbols then dance then blades lmao

wtf

[inland cairn]

I don't think sub is that bad

[daring oxide]

i hated playing sub on nexusking

[ocean lodge]

I don't want sub dumbed down, I hated the legion sub rework

I still want garrote back for openers

[daring oxide]

i dont think sub needs dumbing down

but

I think sub needs more happening outside of cds

[copper radish]

This is why we have no changes 😭

[mighty pivot]

flag and blades have no reason to be two buttons, it won't be dumbed down to combine them

[daring oxide]

this i agree with

they are always used together

[inland cairn]

That's fair

[daring oxide]

but Ryldd will tell us now

what he thinks

as the sub lord

[ocean lodge]

Flag is a button you could remove and I'd feel nothing, assuming tuning accounted for it

[random stirrup]

Ok man

[mighty pivot]

ryldd speak at once

[random stirrup]

🤐

[daring oxide]

i was expecting a bigger message wtf bro

[random stirrup]

I got called out

[ocean lodge]

The lamest covenant power for rogues lol

[random stirrup]

now I won’t

[daring oxide]

no

i genuinely want to hear your take

in seriousness lol

i appreciate it

[ocean lodge]

We lost ER and kept flag, tragic

[daring oxide]

i've only played sub for two bosses

[random stirrup]

I really like current sub and my only desired changes are minor. That being said I think merging flag blades is probably fine

[slate forge]

I want mfd and spike again that was fun

[random stirrup]

I would be sad if they merged dance symbols which may happen as well

[ashen void]

could you imagine the length of the tooltip if you merged flag and blades xD

[daring oxide]

that was my feeling when playing sub on nexus-king exclusively (for prog)

[ashen void]

fucking essay length tooltip

[ocean lodge]

I wouldn't want them merged because I think being tuned without a giga mast buff in mind is generally a better place to be

[daring oxide]

but yeah symbols and dance can stay separate tbh

they are used frequently so they feel more like rotational buttons

rather than cds

[random stirrup]

The decision to send a raw symbols sometimes is cool

[daring oxide]

yeah

[random stirrup]

or the rotten storm dance thing

[copper radish]

When will they add a raid for panda timewalk

[mighty pivot]

it also does very little though

[random stirrup]

That’s perfect most ppl don’t have to worry about it

[ashen void]

the CDs for sub feel like parts of speech in a sentence or like the syllables in a word

[ocean lodge]

I wonder if remix will make legion lockouts daily

[daring oxide]

if they merge flag and blades, would that mean increasing the duration of the new blades? or just rework how flag ramps up to be faster i guess?

[ashen void]

putting them together to make something bigger so elegant

[copper radish]

It’s blizzard…. Prob all diff times

[mighty pivot]

they can do whatever they want tbh, even remove flag's effect altogether from sub and increase the % of blades. It doesn't matter

[ocean lodge]

Thinking broadly though, would you rather hit for 4mil, or only hit for 4mil with the flag buff

[daring oxide]

i see

[random stirrup]

see that’s my main complaint too because they prob merge the duration

and rn there’s skill expression in getting the third dance/sectec in flag

[daring oxide]

yeah

[slate forge]

Isn’t that more coupe rng

[ocean lodge]

I'd love if auto thistle was removed for sub specifically

[random stirrup]

you can guarantee it with prep

[daring oxide]

I think this needs to be reverted

[ocean lodge]

It does

I hate it

[random stirrup]

you can almost get triple sectec in blades with prep

[mighty pivot]

auto-thistle should have been a choice node

[random stirrup]

You can in taza hm

[ocean lodge]

Literally no reason they couldn't just do thst in a .5 patch

[daring oxide]

ah by building SC charges and Shadow techniques in advance?

[mighty pivot]

they already do it with shamans and earthquake, it's similar situation tbh

[ocean lodge]

Copy spell, remove auto conditional

Done

[random stirrup]

ye

[ocean lodge]

It's the most obnoxious for sub because I just wanna slam backstabs in my downtime, but not too much or I blow a tea charge

[random stirrup]

I’m just generally afraid for the changes coming to sub and outlaw. I think they could both have some things removed that would actually please the community and make them simpler but I don’t trust blizzard to accurately determine where the line is

[ocean lodge]

Did they say sub even

[daring oxide]

i share the same feelings too

but regardless

[ocean lodge]

I feel like sub post legion is uber dumbed down already

[daring oxide]

i can't help but be excited for changes too

just looking forward to something

[royal ermine]

reworks = bm hunter the specs

[random stirrup]

I think they could be good changes

[ocean lodge]

I mean they could, but I don't think rogue players want to have ret levels of complexity to appease to noobs

Which is to say, none

[daring oxide]

I don't think they ever will reach those levels

[random stirrup]

only outlaw confirmed but it’s assumed because most of the more general wow community calls sub a phd spec still (it isn’t obv)

[ocean lodge]

I mean they do the same for arcane

Arcane is the easiest it has ever been

[mighty pivot]

also like a quarter of sub's tree is useless talents

[ocean lodge]

Legit never been easier to do well with arcane

[random stirrup]

ya arcane is crazy compared even to last season

[daring oxide]

you guys have revitalised my hope

[random stirrup]

there’s like 2 barrage conditions lol

[ocean lodge]

But I still see pug mages that can't pull 4mil overall somehow

[daring oxide]

i can't wait for the 2nd october

[severe drift]

impossible

[random stirrup]

But arcane is still fun

[severe drift]

litteraly impossible

[random stirrup]

Imo

[ocean lodge]

It really is lol

[severe drift]

dude

[ocean lodge]

Oh I love arcane

[severe drift]

were you there like 15 years ago

xD

[ocean lodge]

But it's easy r/n

Longer tbh

[severe drift]

then you should know

1 macro arcane mage was insane

[ocean lodge]

Eh, current arcane is dumber and easier lol

[bright crane]

https://tenor.com/view/illidan-wow-legion-gif-5143353

[ocean lodge]

If you put current arcane on spine prog that'd be funny af

[severe drift]

how can it be easier than mashing one button ?

[ocean lodge]

How is that any harder than smashing blast and looking at your barrage weakaura

[severe drift]

at least you've to look at something

[ocean lodge]

/eyeroll

[jolly geyser]

easy=bad when talking here

[ocean lodge]

Anyway

[bright crane]

Why look when you can feel??

[ocean lodge]

I think that's how you catch a charge

[runic gulch]

idk about that, legion sub wasn't really all that complex, if anything less so than now tbh

[ocean lodge]

That's what I meant

[severe drift]

rogue atm
https://tenor.com/view/mr-stark-i-dont-feel-so-good-spiderman-death-spiderman-spiderman-dies-avengers-disappear-gif-18193851671472369409

[runic gulch]

sub pre legion before the rework was unforgiving though

[ocean lodge]

I really dislike what legion did to subtlety

Used to be my favorite spec before that.

[runic gulch]

i loved sub in legion tbh, vanishing for legendary shoulder effect and DfAing while spamming dance was fun af ahah

[ocean lodge]

I actually really liked legion outlaw before they removed triple rolling

[wintry solar]

Legion outlaw was great all expac imo

[runic gulch]

WoD and earlier just felt like juggling plates but not in a fun way

[ocean lodge]

I liked it way more in nh than I did for tomb

[jolly geyser]

it wasnt as good as the other 2

[wintry solar]

Assa and sub?

[cinder relic]

I don't really get the cynisism when I'd say most versions of rogue in general have been very fun

[jolly geyser]

si

[wintry solar]

That's fine

[cinder relic]

Even if they are sometimes undertuned, missing some stuff, or not prefered by certain ppl

[ocean lodge]

Outlaw had actual burst with greenskin too. Shotgun crits with greenskin were nutty

Crackshot before crackshot

[wintry solar]

Idrc how strong sub and assa are relative to outlaw as long as Outlaw is fun enough to justify being the worse of the 3 specs. Which rn is not.

[ocean lodge]

I like all three, but it sucks how often it feels like outlaw gets neglected

[cinder relic]

Like legit whens the last time you didnt enjoy rogue

ignoring tuning

[random stirrup]

I liked momentum dh

That’s the main reason for me

[wintry solar]

This season is the first season I almost dislike outlaw

[cinder relic]

But u get a lot of ppl hated momentum right

[wintry solar]

Since Legion season 1

[random stirrup]

Yes, just like a lot of people hate kir or hate current sub

[runic gulch]

i like outlaw this season when i have broadside

[ocean lodge]

For me it's just the trend of reworks and newer spec designs.

It's either badass af (shaman), simplified but stupid strong (ret) or nothing at all/worse than it was before (warlock)

[runic gulch]

when i dont have broadside i want to reroll

[random stirrup]

I’m mostly okay with the level of complexity rogue has, so when they speak of reducing it, I get scared it’ll go from 100-50 instead of 100-80

[runic gulch]

as in class, not the bones

[wintry solar]

Real

[random stirrup]

Because of general community perception (just read any rogue thread on Reddit)

[ocean lodge]

7th dice: turn into a random other class

[copper radish]

Outlaw is always fun. It’s just not fun when we do shit damage and we got a BM two buttons 10 mil avg over our dps

What would be fun is probably another 10% overall buff fk maybe even more

[ocean lodge]

I wish they'd fix KS targeting because I love the new animation

[daring oxide]

i mean

its always fun when your spec does damage

and you feel rewarded for your gameplay

nothing feels worse than you playing well but your output is scuffed simply due to lack of correct tuning

[ocean lodge]

Losing to shit like ret or bm will never not feel awful

[copper radish]

I love outlaws rotation. No complaints there. It just doesn’t do shit for dmg

[fathom carbon]

I tried to focus real hard on ADR and got a 91% run just now!

[daring oxide]

and thats the problem

[wintry solar]

Sick

Yeah

[daring oxide]

we scale with tuning not stats

no tuning no scaling 🙁

i have been told and i now believe this

[copper radish]

10% overall inc might not even save us this season lol

[daring oxide]

no

we need 20%

[ocean lodge]

I mean it's crazy how they just kinda did one pass to overbuff bm then fucked off

[daring oxide]

and that'll keep us safe after max ilvl on turboboost

[ocean lodge]

Turbo is in two weeks right

[daring oxide]

ye but with alpha on the doorstep it kinda makes sense?

[cinder relic]

So its either good, bad, or fine? whats the issue exactly?

[daring oxide]

they just really busy with dev work for the new expansion

so no time to address tuning issues

[ocean lodge]

I want outlaw to be good but not dumbed down. I am concerned more about it being dumbed down than the tuning

I worded it like shit

[cinder relic]

I think rogue has managed to stand by a lot of core pillars for a long time, I don't expect it to change dramatically

[wintry solar]

I think people are worried that a rework of their favorite spec might go in a direction they don't like in terms of gameplay.

Didn't mean to reply

[daring oxide]

outlaw becomes a new PI spec when they swap our haste scaling to affect something else and make our 0.8 gcd baseline

[ocean lodge]

I don't think anything can be as bad as legion rogue, granted

But still

[fathom carbon]

Imo, just give rogues some real aoe cc, perhaps even aoe silence and we're meta again.
Dmg tuning would be a bonus but we need to be broken to reach meta status no :p ?

[ocean lodge]

Removing poisons was wild af

[wintry solar]

Like, it could have problems fixed but if the gameplay isn't there, why would they care.

[wintry solar]

It made sense. Why would a pirate use poisons? Legion was very spec identity heavy.

[keen belfry]

our lack of aoe cc is not the reason we aint meta

[ocean lodge]

Why would a pirate use poisons TF YOU MEAN

[keen belfry]

dmg is always king in 90% of the scenarios

[cinder relic]

Hunter, known utility fountain

[keen belfry]

you dont do keys

[ocean lodge]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Alexander_Tardy

[keen belfry]

dmg is king and usually dictates meta, to an extent

[wintry solar]

When people think of pirates they think of the cartoonized characters you see on TV.

[keen belfry]

other specs have to be able to fill in your lack of cc/util etc

[ocean lodge]

I don't think outlaw enjoyers expect to be meta, just not below the tank in a dungeon

[copper radish]

I’m a bad BM cause I’m like interrupt on 20 sec and stun on 60 sec… feel like I have nothing compared to rogue lol

[runic gulch]

i don't think its just a matter of number tuning though, i'm convinced that blizz just never intended for us to play 1FtH, because going into your crackshot windows are actually a lottery entirely contingent on ace procs and broadside being up. the spec just doesnt work half the time with this build yet is played regardless because it somehow sims the highest. Like, if some weird experimental build that doesn't fundamentally work is the highest simming build, you've gone wrong somewhere from a design perspective.

[wintry solar]

Unsuccessful and atypical pirate btw

Probably shouldn't have used posions

[ocean lodge]

There is a ton of moments I'll watch zac in a key and monksea is doing better than him

It's insane

[mighty pivot]

that pirate didn't crackshot enough

[wintry solar]

Fr

[ocean lodge]

He wiped on dimensius

L

But the poison is still legit

[wintry solar]

It's really not

It was one shitty pirate

[ocean lodge]

If a pirate has access to poison why wouldn't they use it

[wintry solar]

Gun more effective idk

[keen belfry]

rogue does not have a bunch of util cuh

[ocean lodge]

And we're basically ninjas larping as pirates

If you really wanna be difficult

[wintry solar]

This is about legion

Now it makes sense

[copper radish]

Aoe blind, cheaps, faster interrupt CD., and kidney. What am I missing lol

[wintry solar]

It's not good enough

[keen belfry]

you have popo on your side, you must realize there are specs that do much more than us in terms of util

if you have popo agreeing with your points it may be a cooked point

[wintry solar]

I'm actively disagreeing what are you talking about?

[copper radish]

I was only talkin bout BM. Feel like I can CC more on rogue in keys than I can on BM

[stiff vector]

Rogue has fuck all utility, Hunter 100% brings far more value to m+

[keen belfry]

2mph is faster than 1mph, its still very slow

[wintry solar]

Totally agreeing 👍

[cinder relic]

What does this have to do with anything?

Hunter is good in keys rn isnt it?

Does hunter have good utility in keys?

[keen belfry]

no i misread your point

[stiff vector]

I mean Hunter util definitely isn’t bad, it’s just not at the level of mage/druid/shaman

[wintry solar]

This guy

[royal ermine]

we have 0 utility but I run at 166% movement speed thats pretty neat

[keen belfry]

cc in keys is hard to play around, dmg is biggest dictator of meta but you can sometimes just have to little CC if you play best dps specs

if the dps specs are low in util as well

[wintry solar]

Frost trap is good sometimes

[cinder relic]

Yeah I'm agreeing with you lol

[keen belfry]

luckily, rsham dk and druid have been meta

[mighty pivot]

isn't hunter 2 aoe stops anyway not just 1? binding and trap

[keen belfry]

yeah hunter has more than rogue

in an actual use case

sure outlaw has kidney on shorter cd

but the way DRs work sometimes solo stopping a mob can be quite troll

[mighty pivot]

kidney can only be used early otherwise the DR ruins it

[keen belfry]

ye

rogues best util is unkillabe

as outlaw

no cap thats our best outlaw

[stiff vector]

ye basically

[keen belfry]

and pulling mobs for our tank with perma tricks

[cinder haven]

Perma tricks is not nothing

[stiff vector]

perma tricks is kind of the only real value we bring

[keen belfry]

i agree

perma tricks is very good

[stiff vector]

its goatd, but its nowhere near enough

[cinder haven]

And put defensives are very very good

[mighty pivot]

📎 image_1.gif

[copper radish]

Always last on dmg taken. Thank you feint

[keen belfry]

our defensive entitlment goes so hard, i dont even have to think that hard about any defensives

[covert kestrel]

brewmasters love us

[cinder haven]

If we had good damage profile and did damage we would be meta

[keen belfry]

aye

🙁

[thick parcel]

Is sin still m+ meta

I don't PvE much

[keen belfry]

depends

[wintry solar]

I still can't believe awang thought I was agreeing with Van on that topic.

[keen belfry]

most r1 rogues are just playing other classes atm

[cinder haven]

Sin is bugged, otherwise it will probably be meta

[magic shuttle]

Sub also good in m+

[stiff vector]

mobility too. I actually have to think about having disengage/cheetah and manage defensives on hunter, not that hunter is super squishy at all but I 100% feel the difference between my rogue big time in certain places

[wintry solar]

Van that toolkit is for pvp not pve

[keen belfry]

i think its overrated

[wintry solar]

Silly boy

[keen belfry]

whenever i tune into the r1 io rogues, besides zac, they are playing other class

[magic shuttle]

i think it's a nice alternative to push high if you dont want to play assa

[stiff vector]

idk why some people like to massively overrate sub both in m+ and raid, its not that great

[cinder haven]

Havoc, fdk, bm

[keen belfry]

yeah speed playing bm, casual playing dk, etc

[cinder haven]

Maybe arcane

[magic shuttle]

gotta say tho, why are they so slow with buffing this spec

like

[stiff vector]

awang playing feral

im playing hunter

[magic shuttle]

usually if outlaw sucks in pve i can play it in pvp

[keen belfry]

my feral is goated

[stiff vector]

[magic shuttle]

but now it sucks in pvp

no gamemode where it's good

[cinder haven]

I’m playing havoc

[keen belfry]

im adding feral to my list of "you think outlaw is hard" play this spec!" list and outlaw is just harder

by like 10x

[stiff vector]

ye ppl like to cap about feral difficulty because it used to be much more complex and that title kinda of has just stuck even tho its a lot simplier now

[keen belfry]

it has less to think about with half the apm

granted, bloodtalons can be weird, and so can snapshotting

[stiff vector]

there isnt even much snapshotting now, they removed a lot of it

[cinder haven]

Current havoc has a pretty interesting gameplay loop imo

[wintry solar]

Wdym nerfing Restless Blades by 20% was a bad idea??

[coral onyx]

i expected more from warpclaw trinket that i got this vault

[wintry solar]

It's only the vessel of our very existence

[keen belfry]

i kinda wanna gear mine

[magic shuttle]

at least make the buttons do damage when you press them

[wintry solar]

Alas

Sinister Strike buffed 20%

[cinder haven]

I find it interesting enough to keep going at least

[covert kestrel]

do you like it

[wintry solar]

Sigh

[covert kestrel]

like enjoyable type beat vibe

[stiff vector]

I was watching my buddy send some resil 18s on his havoc and it does look decently fun and i think most outlaw players would prob be good at it, kind of similar vibe

[covert kestrel]

im not racist enough to play havoc 🙁

[magic shuttle]

gotta level the fury warrior

[stiff vector]

but I think im prob gonna do a DK or feral for turboboost since ive never played them in retail

[cinder haven]

Edgelord arc

[wintry solar]

I remember that phase

[cinder haven]

I worry a bit about if havoc is tanky enough

[random stirrup]

If you think so I will believe you I just retain a bit of doubt

[cinder haven]

Not a whole lot of defensives to press

[wintry solar]

Tob I don't think I've ever been so cautiously optimistic about outlaw

[cinder haven]

Why on earth are you optimistic

[keen belfry]

yeah in high high keys, can havoc live? i dont think you could have havoc + bm in the same key

[stiff vector]

havoc does ok, it just needs a bit of help with certain one shot mechanics in 18+ keys. But its basically immune to any form of rot dmg, their self healing is crazy strong especially in real meta

[wintry solar]

Because the last few reworks have been good

Ignoring damage, I love fdk a lot.

[copper radish]

Can’t wait to see ur reaction when we become mid range pew pew shooters

[old gull]

[wintry solar]

Idk how I'd type with shaking hands and teary eyes

[cinder haven]

Yeah self healing is strong but only netherwalk and blur against one shots?

Maybe you can stack some vers

[wintry solar]

It can't get worse

It's impossible

[stiff vector]

imo this season it isnt as much of an issue because there are less actual 1 shot type abilities, and like every healer has tons of absorb shields+loomithars. Rsham 10% hp buff is also huge, and earth shield, or can call for external from any other healer

[cinder haven]

It really likes crit, but doesn’t really hate any of the stats from what i can tell

Maybe it’s tanky enough

It’s not dk/outlaw levels tho

[wintry solar]

1 line of tuning friday and its a nerf to bm

Calling it now

[cinder haven]

Doubt

[wintry solar]

No but it'd be funny

I don't expect tuning at all

[cinder haven]

It would

[keen belfry]

being a fully rework worker and playing wow and sitting in wow discords has ruined me as a man i think chat

[stiff vector]

there are definitely some kind of overtuned abilities that I think should be nerfed tbh, but not that many. Mostly just double dispel on menagerie in Streets is absurd ticking dmg+explosion dmg, mail call is also kinda giga for something that splits dmg between the whole party, prob one or two other mechanics im forgetting

[keen belfry]

im so online now

[covert kestrel]

midrange with melee gcd shenanigans? im down

[keen belfry]

how do i return to grass

[wintry solar]

Tech detox

[cinder haven]

I like to take trips to the mountains for detox sometimes

[old gull]

If outlaw getting a rework I bet they don’t tune the spec at all

[cinder haven]

Skiing or hiking

[covert kestrel]

i just had a stroke

[wintry solar]

I did too

But we overcome

[old gull]

Rofl tune*

[mighty pivot]

midnight outlaw will have a button to toggle between melee and ranged mode like troll warlord from dota

[old gull]

[keen belfry]

gym is my offline detox bnut i need more

im so online

have been since 2023

[gaunt phoenix]

bnut

[random stirrup]

I used to read books as a kid

[covert kestrel]

delete discord from phone

[random stirrup]

Now I doomscroll discord

it’s real bad

[wintry solar]

I could see this being the case or minimal tuning throughout the season. They gave unholy a fix to festermight and then they're possibly removing wounds in Midnight.

[cinder haven]

I do have reading periods still

[covert kestrel]

i just deleted discord off my phone and laptop and i feel free

[random stirrup]

Don’t ever use tiktok btw

It rots your brain insta

[wintry solar]

Short form media is the devil

[random stirrup]

Dopamine receptors

[stiff vector]

the worst thing to doomscroll is twitter, sometimes I catch myself doing it for liek 5 min and im just like WTF am I doing. But I largely rarely go on social media anymre

[cinder haven]

Cultivation novels, completely braindead

[wintry solar]

It really do be that damn phone

[cinder haven]

Litrpg sometimes

[wintry solar]

I shouldn't be able to get plastered and ruin my life so easily

I guess drinking and driving was a thing before phones

[old gull]

You can drink drive and shit post on discord all at once

[jolly geyser]

people spoke on the phone and drove

still do ofc

[keen belfry]

aye my work POV is 3 monitors, work teams chat, work monitor, discord monitor

[cinder haven]

The pandemic lowered my alcohol consumption to almost nothing

[random stirrup]

My last job I spent more time on discord than I did actually working

Crazy stuff

[stiff vector]

doomscrolling outlaw discord is my drug of choice

[cinder haven]

Never recovered but I guess that’s good

[old gull]

Let’s talk about how cool our mastery is

[cinder haven]

our mastery could be cool

[wintry solar]

I sometimes lurk wowhead comments and the forums to feel something

[cinder haven]

what if it could proc off any BF damage instance, but wouldn't flurry itself?

it would be funnel

[stiff vector]

our mastery unironically has so much potential to be good/cool if it was actually ever iterated on, but...no

[keen belfry]

im close, work at big corp is fake often

[cinder haven]

maybe scale proc chance with mastery stat also

[jolly geyser]

just make mastery make builders do more dmg or some shit

[cinder haven]

maybe it could flurry but have a lower than normal chance to proc off BF damage

[stiff vector]

I think BF should proc it, but it doenst flurry the dmg and instead can act as some sort of funnel into main target

[cinder haven]

yeah that's what I said first too

but maybe it can flurry "a little bit" somehow

[covert kestrel]

every 5% of mastery gives you a 10% chance to double the effectiveness of any RtB buffs on roll/KiR

[cinder haven]

so you mainly get funnel but also a little bit AOE

[stiff vector]

I mean with us being the only truly hardcapped spec in the game, we should 100% be funnel/prio gods

[gaunt phoenix]

Mastery: Vers

Every point in mastery gives you an equivalent amount of vers

[cinder haven]

the cool thing about our mastery is that you can make it a funnel thing without needing a debuff to work off

[old gull]

Ok bro

[mighty pivot]

it would be better for the game to not have free funnel, funnel should have some drawback

[stiff vector]

the fact that we are the literal opposite of funnel/prio gods is just a warcrime with our dmg profile/targetcap

[cinder haven]

I'm fine with if they just delete funnel from all specs that have it

[hybrid crown]

Tbh I just want trickster to get a st buff

[wintry solar]

Goodnight Ninja and Tob. Gonna dream of good outlaw rework.

And Pk

[mighty pivot]

you are going to bed again?

[old gull]

Mastery is a damage amp that ramps the longer you attack one target, lmao

[wintry solar]

This time for real. My back hurts.

[mighty pivot]

wait popo

I have cat pic

[wintry solar]

Okay hurry

[gaunt phoenix]

cat ?!

[stiff vector]

I think specs that can only, or mainly only do competitive dmg in lower target counts and cant compete with higher target count AoE, should be by default the specs given strong funnel/prio/ST

[mighty pivot]

This is what I see when it's their dinner time

[wintry solar]

Socks off btw

They look so soft

[gaunt phoenix]

look at those dawgs

[random stirrup]

I’ve been saying, arcane’s design is perfect, not great mass aoe but strong low target and strong funnel so it’s good anyway. Should be the template for hard capped specs

[subtle field]

for the add bosses do we just hold KS for adds? thinking mostly of the 2nd boss and 4th boss

[wintry solar]

Great photo Ninja

Good kitty

[mighty pivot]

ty now go sleep

[gaunt phoenix]

you dont hold ks, or you lose unseen blades

[random stirrup]

Precise cuts reworked to increase damage to your primary target while bf is active depending on how many targets you are below bf cap

ez fix

[subtle field]

okay, so just send it on cd? even if adds are coming up in like 15?

[random stirrup]

Wait

Opposite

depending on how many targets bf is cleaving

[mighty pivot]

so PC will decrease your damage?

[random stirrup]

no no like instead of 4% bf damage per target below count, 4% st for each target bf is cleaving

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

hate this game

[mighty pivot]

just flip better

[gaunt phoenix]

Why is tails legit 3x better than heads

[mighty pivot]

they couldn't get the balance right in the 20 hours they spent on FB in total

[random stirrup]

you thought you could escape the rng with tier set

You could not

[stiff vector]

this is me like 75% of pulls the last week or two I swear, idk variance/rng didnt feel this cringe before

[delicate seal]

you mean like old blade flurry

slows energy regen

toggled

except now its between melee/ranged class

[stiff vector]

the fact I can even get good ace/buff rng, and then still do shit damage because I procd giga heads instead of tails is just so insanely grief

[gaunt phoenix]

what is this

[delicate seal]

or you SS 14 times in a row

with no procs

[stiff vector]

like you legit do fucking absolute PISS damage if youre giga lowrolling tails and highrolling heads its so dumb

[delicate seal]

didnt we use to have some talent/trait thing that

gave us a stacking buff whenever we SS'd

and didnt proc something

[gaunt phoenix]

Only wits

gave us SS chance

[stiff vector]

the only problem is, high rolling basically means nothing because high rolling still means youre doing less dmg than basically every other spec in the game...if youre lowrolling coins you are legit getting giga gapped

[delicate seal]

[mighty pivot]

this and you roll 8 heads on pull leapfrogging the lucky coin

[stiff vector]

this tier has completely revitalzied my hate for fatebound

it is an unredeemable stinking hot pile of dog shit that should be completely reworked from the ground up

[random stirrup]

Just be like that one assa guy and roll 55 coins in a row

Easy

[stiff vector]

if they dont completely rework fatebound for midnight I will crashout, 100% confirmed

[gaunt phoenix]

Rogue really did get the 3 worst hero trees

[stiff vector]

I refuse to play this dumpster fire again in midnight

[gaunt phoenix]

be free

[stiff vector]

the crazier part is that not only did we get the 3 worst hero trees, none of them actually got reworked/serious iteration to make them not the worst 3 hero trees in the game when its the main expansion feature

[mighty pivot]

it is inevitabile

[red zinc]

trickster on sub might be the only reasonable one

[dawn talon]

release shadopan was just as dogshit as ds

[red zinc]

1/6

[keen belfry]

yeah, idk how many classes you play but playing other trees is wild

so this is what a well designed tree looks like!

or not even well designed

just not shit

[gaunt phoenix]

i know nothing about other classes but i typed it anyway

[red zinc]

dark ranger is so sick man

[dawn talon]

dotc is the most fun shit ever

its like why does my class not have this

lol

[keen belfry]

i got in a fun conversation with enhance discord in s1, they were complaining about stormbringer tree

[stiff vector]

trickster was just completely unplayable for outlaw s1, fatebound was pretty much unplayable for assa until this tier(and its only playable now because DS is just so terrible in ST, not because FB is good in any way), and DS for sub has been unplayable for what...the entire xpac?

[keen belfry]

wtf is dotc

[random stirrup]

Ds assa is okay in keys

[red zinc]

druid of the cuhlaw

[dawn talon]

druid of the claw

for feral

[random stirrup]

A bit cringe sometimes with certain bosses

[keen belfry]

yeah i have a lot of fun on my feral in keys

[random stirrup]

but dn feels good

[red zinc]

ayo?

[keen belfry]

ravage is so cool

[red zinc]

deez nuts feel good?

[random stirrup]

Yeah in your mouth buddy

[dawn talon]

i still think they shouldn't have changed the name

[red zinc]

MASSIVE ATTACK

[wintry solar]

Hot

[keen belfry]

massive attack - teadrop

anyone know ball?

[red zinc]

i cant lie the fact that it was called massive attack during beta was so funny

its ravage now but

[stiff vector]

I mean fuck it, they should be 100% reworking all of the rogue hero trees for Midnight, anything less should be unacceptable given we were forced to play with these complete dumpster fires the entire xpac

[red zinc]

[dawn talon]

RIP

MASSIVE ATTACK

[covert kestrel]

intro the house md

[wintry solar]

Holy copium

[dawn talon]

gone but not forgotten

[wintry solar]

Cope Nuke

[mighty pivot]

popo wtf

[wintry solar]

It's the fuzz!

/cast vanish

[mighty pivot]

outlaw chat resets

[wintry solar]

That happens when I chime in

[keen belfry]

how do i get my feral from 710 to 716

[wintry solar]

An email notification ruined any chance of sleep

[covert kestrel]

become someones discord kitten for carries

[keen belfry]

i think when turbo fart comes out im gonna jsut bring my feral to loom and forge

so i can dinar my best 2 trinkets

[covert kestrel]

most ethical raid leader

[keen belfry]

thank you

MERL

MERL awang

[covert kestrel]

put that on a propaganda poster for your guild mao xedong style

[keen belfry]

call me mao the way i be given her ze dong

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm

[keen belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cooking-let-me-cook-cat-let-me-cook-let-him-cook-gif-14801096915973119105

[stiff vector]

ye ive been pugging first 2 mythic on my hunter but I ideally want to find my way into somebodies like alt mythic 6/8 run or something

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-dog-dance-dog-dancing-dog-ai-dog-ai-dance-gif-1570320977069060287

[keen belfry]

@covert kestrel thoughts?

[covert kestrel]

somnius approves

i can still feel his presence here

[keen belfry]

sometime had to fill his wide ass shoes

He was gonna wine and dine me when I went to eu land

He never did

Same with @red zinc

[covert kestrel]

fun fact: his feet, much like his downstairs one eyed trouser snake, are 24% wider than they are long

[covert kestrel]

he lives in america tho

[keen belfry]

Oh shit nvm

[red zinc]

bd you said you were "gonna go" a month beforehand and never told me when

and then afterwards said why i didnt meet u

[keen belfry]

Yeah all good man

Bro was like let me get a restealth the minute I landed in his country

Vanished

[covert kestrel]

holy shit how did i miss this epic emojicon

[covert kestrel]

come to nyc and ill wine and dine you

(only if you give me swe job)

[delicate seal]

are hero talents here to stay