outlaw

[quaint mauve]

wait

i was talking to you poco

[wintry solar]

Also no tuning today

[torpid heath]

if only we had something to benefits amp dmg and more prio dmg

[quaint mauve]

thinking you were popo

wtf

LOL

[junior coral]

So how cooked are we with no buffs tonight lmao. When the chance of them even dking next tuning

[wintry solar]

Crazy

[quaint mauve]

😭

[torpid heath]

we wont have a buff guys

[red zinc]

“how cooked are we” just play the video game big dog

PUT THE HANDS ON THE KEYBOARD

[torpid heath]

padding too hard on araz and soul hunter

[wintry solar]

I will say

Even though outlaw damage is mid af, it's the only spec in the game that can be dogwater and still be fun.

[torpid heath]

yup

sadly i'm sad when i look at the dmg meter

so whats better

[red zinc]

man i feel like any spec is meta when im playin with the people i play with

[torpid heath]

liking ur gameplay but be depressed or hating ur gameplay but enjoying ur nlife

[red zinc]

got 6 markers for galaxy smashes on salhadaar, they decide to put it in the middle of the room

[civic zephyr]

this discord is filled with funny screenshots that i get to show my friends

[quaint mauve]

this one stuck with me

[frail veldt]

Hahahaha what'd you do to them

[quaint mauve]

i musta done something bro… from yesterday to today

6 prot warrs in a row

just fall over

and then the key i do time was without a warrior

somethings up

im not schizophrenic

[frail veldt]

Time for some green tank

[shell fossil]

outlaw toward the end of a raid pull can feel great if they can stand and hit stuff

but also just fizzle

[gaunt phoenix]

Man sometimes 1fth on bosses legit does nothing

[craggy barn]

maybe its time to drop 1fth

[keen belfry]

for what king

we are tuned around having pc

undertuned in with pc

imagine what that means without pc

[glass mortar]

bro

just bricked a 12 floodgate

we got to the last boss with 3m left

i did 2.9m st

i didnt have more then 2 buffs for 80% of the fight

[frank finch]

[glass mortar]

i rolled BT nonstop the whole fight

literal tank dps

idk what to do

when cto just doesnt proc for 40s straight with kir off cd

xd

[frank finch]

its time to let us swap in m+ again

[keen belfry]

less than me on assa pure ST btw

delete the spec

[glass mortar]

its so dumpster like

im not messing up gcds

im just dropping ar to no procs and BT rolled 5 times in a row

☠️

plus im running idol now which is dog on st

[keen belfry]

thats why i dont run idol

just gimme st trinkets

[glass mortar]

it does pop off on aoe tho xd

does more damage then my projector and has a lower cd and agi

zzzzz

[misty hawk]

We play a class that uses 2 weapons and a pistol, sometimes we can't handle it with just 2 hands.

This spec is a mess

[glass mortar]

its just so funny idk

when u do ur opener crackshot window on a boss with no procs and BT/GM so u come out of it doing 2.5m dps

good stuff

bte when it doesnt crit is so funny

[wintry solar]

Come on midnight

[fathom bramble]

would be cool if BTE just always crit

and crit chance gave % damage instead like on chaos bolt

especially since it's basically 100% crit chance most of the time already...

[tired rune]

A lot of things would be cool 😎

Yet we have no things

[wintry solar]

How do you have SL outlaw and fall off this hard?

[stiff vector]

yeah really love that...sometimes I swear CTO is bugged or something because im like theres no way I can just not proc any CTO for legit like 10+ sec and 8 SS'

and then ill randomly proc like 4 CTO buffs in like 3 GCDs later on

[hoary wave]

so no tuning huh

[quaint mauve]

i want sigil so bad

or even an antenna man

[keen belfry]

I have both

Mythic sigil next week surely

[stiff vector]

ye I still dont have antenna or cosmic hunt on my rogue somehow lol

have heroic antenna on my hunter alrdy

[quaint mauve]

im lowkey gonna execute you twin 😭✌️

[keen belfry]

Idk what I think about antenna

[quaint mauve]

it’s better than the other passive trinkets idk

it being able to miss is weird though

i want sigil way more

i just don’t have good trinkets

warpclaw is my best one 🫩

[fallow sonnet]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[deep sequoia]

ok i feel like this season my dps is worse than ever

i see ppl like wox and tomelvis doing like 20mil on a pack and i can max out at like 17mil (i know wox and tom are demons but sstill)

[tender wedge]

tomelvis is like 720 ilvl

and playing in perfect comp

having monk/war/druid/sham buffs is an insane multiplier to outlaw damage

[frail veldt]

Were tuned as intended

blizzard wants outlaw to be where it is

[frail veldt]

you can do this

I believe in you

[wintry solar]

I'm telling you dude, they're pulling a "we don't want you playing demo" on outlaw because Devour is getting something of ours fr

[frail veldt]

naaaaaaah

I think they genuinely just think outlaw deserves to be where it is

[tender wedge]

i'd be more worried as a spriest

[torpid heath]

They just have no idea

How bad we are

Thats it

[wintry solar]

Everyone put money in the pot, winner takes all

[torpid heath]

I wouldnt be surprised if assas get a buff and we dont

[wintry solar]

I wouldn't, just gotta wait for spriest rework 14.0

[tender wedge]

i mean that devourer will steal some ability/flavour

[wintry solar]

Maybe so

[cinder haven]

Do we even have anything left worth stealing?

[ripe ibex]

this is what you guys get for wanting killing spree to be changed

[wintry solar]

Rtb and grapple is all we gots left. One of which nobody else wants and grapple is just a worse leap.

[cinder haven]

If you ignore the fact that it would kill you, it was better before

[ripe ibex]

much much better

id rather die 5 times a key than this 😭

[wintry solar]

My only issue is the random targeting

Idc about the channel and all that. Or how it interacts with trickster tbh

[stuck sparrow]

I still feel like

trickster was designed for sub

and outlaw was tacked on

as an afterthought

[ripe ibex]

i mean trickster outlaw last season felt so smooth

cause it was build around killing spree

[wintry solar]

It's really hard to make a tree when 2 specs are so fundamentally different.

[ripe ibex]

now it feels terrible cause they didn’t try to make it work

[stuck sparrow]

Well more that flawless form stacks

and danse macabre

kind of both build into the

later into it gets stronger

[wintry solar]

Should've given us a new button tbh

[stuck sparrow]

also giving sub bladeflurry

[wintry solar]

Which they're trying to avoid so probably why they attempted to put it on feint

[stuck sparrow]

when it has aoe spender

[wintry solar]

Which I was never opposed to

I send it on CD because Cheat is so ass

[quaint mauve]

my healer and tank crash on last boss

im actually cursed

[tender wedge]

Sub gets flurry so outlaw can have full redesign for midnight believe

[quaint mauve]

we get main target only KS, and a cd that makes us shoot a cannon instead of bte that gives us uncapped aoe+ fire dmg dot on all targets

and adrenaline rush makes us do execute dmg

[wintry solar]

We get new gameplay

Trust

[hoary wave]

im actually afraid of what blizzard is currently cooking for outlaw in midnight

like everything past DF S3 has been a clusterfuck

[tender wedge]

Nah she’ll be right

[hoary wave]

idk man, i try to be positive but the past 2 seasons has me worrying a bit

[tender wedge]

Last season was fine outside of KS danger which admittedly was a big deal but bearable

Like sure it hasn’t been meta or close to it since DF but lots of specs in that position

[wintry solar]

Last season I'd argue was better than S3 df

I liked it a lot

[cinder haven]

Yeah I agree for the most part. The channel is fine, could allow kick though

[wintry solar]

Yeah the lack of kicking is dumb, I forgot about that.

[cinder haven]

The channel is a bit too long s as well

[cinder relic]

Every version of Outlaw has been fun for it's own reasons

It has also always had its issues and quirks

It also is undertuned atm

New expac will bring in new memes

[cinder haven]

Yeah this version is also fun

[wintry solar]

Its fine, def the least fun.

[cinder haven]

Trickster loop is kinda cool, could be cooler if they fix the quirks but still fun

Fatebound got a lot more interesting with the tier set

[worthy elm]

im not a big fan of trickster

not really digging coup

[cinder relic]

I hope the tier set is baked into fatebound

[quaint mauve]

i just

[cinder haven]

Yeah me too

[quaint mauve]

5 rolled twice in my pre key

all my luck drained

gg

[cinder relic]

But also make it so that GS becomes free

[cinder haven]

Yeah, remove the cp gain if you must

But get rid of cost

[cinder relic]

I just mean because GS helps force proc lucky coin

[quaint mauve]

i think it should amp bf dmg too

idk

[cinder relic]

Thats just now how damage amps are coded in the game

[cinder haven]

GS?

They could make it a buff instead i guess

Bte treatment

[tender wedge]

“Maintenance buff you keep near 100% uptime” is also something they’ve moved away from

[cinder relic]

I think its fine for GS to exist in the space of "This is a thing meant to buff ST damage only"

[worthy elm]

id rather a redesign to rtb then GS

[cinder haven]

We’ll see what they do I guess

For trickster i mainly want to be able to use ss even if coup is available

And overall I hope they do something to improve our prio damage

[wintry solar]

Going back to 60% adr uptime would be cool

Or similar

[tender wedge]

I think we all agree ADR should feel giga when it’s up and the spec should feel playable when it’s not

[wintry solar]

Fs

[tender wedge]

Unlike now where you feel depresso when it drops

[cinder relic]

Its because the spec has been forced to be balanced around having 95% uptime

Because it can get there

[tender wedge]

Yeah I think they should walk that back

[cinder haven]

I’d like to see them iterate on the haste cap

[cinder relic]

Haste cap should just leave

Its just bad

[cinder haven]

Would be nice to benefit from BL

[wintry solar]

Tob wants 0.6 gcds /s

[cinder haven]

Nah

[wintry solar]

[cinder haven]

Some other haste scaling

[wintry solar]

Haste scaling ks dmg ? Idk

[cinder haven]

Duplicated attacks or something

[worthy elm]

haste scaling, not rely on ADR uptime ( make it an actual cooldown) do something with our damned mastery idk..

[cinder haven]

Wish list is kings long

[cinder relic]

Outlaw isnt a CD spec

AR shouldn't be "an actual CD"

AR should just but like recklessness for fury, just a buff u have high uptime of

This is like a 40 second CD with current fury

Ur in reck like 60% of the encounter

Its how AR should be

Probably part of why I'm enjoying fury this szn

[lethal oak]

[quaint mauve]

its just better outlaw no?

[wintry solar]

Not having to play around something as buggy as subt is nice as well

[fathom bramble]

skill floor/cap is also way lower

since there isn't really much going on compared to otl

[cinder relic]

It's got a decent amount rn imo

[fathom bramble]

more than it did in some previous expacs for sure

[cinder relic]

I care more about gameplay than performance

[quaint mauve]

yeah and it feels better

[cinder relic]

I think fury is more fun than outlaw atm

[quaint mauve]

anyways i love beating my funnel specs ST when they have funnel whole time :PPPPP

[cinder relic]

I'm of the opinion that outlaw has too much "stuff" to monitor while being 70+ apm

Fury has a decent amount

[quaint mauve]

theres things on outlaw

that should just be turned into passives imo

[shell fossil]

do tanks have any funnel potential?

[quaint mauve]

vdh has funnel

[shell fossil]

i know prot paladin can go crazy pulling adds into boss

yeah it's kinda not..our issue then?

[wintry solar]

Bdk has that thing where the blood boil increases your death strike dmg based on targets hit

Idk how good it is tho

Also no one is playing blood rn anyways

[jolly geyser]

Sounds decent

[shell fossil]

bear druid funnel lmao

[quaint mauve]

we dont benefit from funnel, but its nice to have bad luck protection with bf when theres adds on boss

[shell fossil]

that's benefitting though, more time in 4+ buffs

[fathom bramble]

still less ST than you would be doing in actual ST

with the same talents on

[quaint mauve]

@frail veldt i havent timed any key that gives me io today

[shell fossil]

true but big picture that's potential to save time by getting count

[quaint mauve]

sit in decline simulator -> invite -> brick -> repeat

[fathom bramble]

yeah it's not worthless damage or anything

it's just not funnel

makes the rotation feel so much better though to have access to BF for combo points

[shell fossil]

are we just losing st due to how killing spree works right now?

[fathom bramble]

yes

or all of the fatebound stuff if you happen to be that

[wintry solar]

I'm sensing a patternnnn

[quaint mauve]

i think in total today

[wintry solar]

Delete fatebound, give us bounty hunter.

[quaint mauve]

idk what i was gonna say

but none of these keys can be my fault

[wintry solar]

Me when I main ret

[jolly geyser]

I dont bother pugging with my outlaw anymore tbh

[shell fossil]

yeah the one tank main i know was very risk averse at the start of this season on prot paladin, rogue is in a pickle cause tanks are scared i like it

[quaint mauve]

i was gonna time a key then my healer and tank who live together randomly lose power

there are forces greater than me

denying me resil

[shell fossil]

14 dawn and the healer's addon did that alt tab glitch where you tap alt a few times to get unit frame clicks working again

we had 5 on the boat griefing us haha

[quaint mauve]

its only midnight man wheres the keys

[tender wedge]

in OCE by the looks

[fallen mural]

this was my priory :*( I don't know how to get more out of the gas tank. But i mean i can def improve adr was 88% uptime

[jolly geyser]

Nobody likes doing street

[cinder haven]

Yeah we can do more than that

[tender wedge]

ultimately here you're playing against the 2 top overall dps specs in the game i think so like idk

[fallen mural]

for some reason last season priory was a good key, this season im struggling with it

[cinder haven]

I like psf tbh, nice all action key

[fallen mural]

ya i usually really enjoy priory

[wintry solar]

Manifesting Temple of Sethraliss next season.

[jolly geyser]

God np

[fathom bramble]

bring back underrot

[jolly geyser]

No

[shell fossil]

i feel like if i pull a 14ak it's going in the bag

[wintry solar]

Temple of Sethraliss the goat

[jolly geyser]

Loktark gonna run rot 200 times again?

[fallen mural]

how much dps should we aim to do in a 16 priory with lets just say a rsham buff?

[fathom bramble]

only if they let me

[cinder haven]

Shouldnt be doing 16 with only sham buff probably

[wintry solar]

Temple of Sethraliss and Spires of Acension

[cinder haven]

At least warrior as well

But maybe 8.5m at least

[fallen mural]

ya i had a DH tank and Rsham

[cinder haven]

Can do like 10 in ideal conditions

[fallen mural]

ya i think its my first pull i know effed it up, but after that i just couldn't get it going.

[cinder haven]

But not much higher i think

[quaint mauve]

my highest in psf

rsham monk warrior

[fallen mural]

when i look at the trash between 1st and 2nd i was at 9.5 and 2nd and 3rd boss i was at 9.5 also

[quaint mauve]

was 9.8

[cinder haven]

So close

[fallen mural]

my first boss trash i was really low 7.59 so i lost alot there

[cinder haven]

Next time

[fallen mural]

yes definitely

[frail veldt]

me neither bro

but ive timed all the keys ive done lol

just helping people and boosting up my own key

also I gotta say

the raid boots

[cinder haven]

At around +15 you can’t get invites anymore it seems

[frail veldt]

are so fucking dumb

^ yeah its pretty brutal

Ive kinda just realized I need to list my own key

only way I can play the game

[cinder haven]

Have to push your own key

[frail veldt]

whats crazy is how many applications you get

when you list

[cinder haven]

But there’s a lot of people applying if you list your own set least

Makes sense that you don’t get invites then ofc

Unless you sick out somehow

[frail veldt]

ye exactly

[cinder haven]

Floodgate felt so bad as outlaw yesterday

First pull basically tank damage and also no prio

Big momma only pad

Shit st for last two bosses

What’s my contribution here?

Still topping overall damage

I guess moving the key along for the in between packs

[wintry solar]

And they say we have no niche

[cinder haven]

We do damage when everyone else is holding CDs

Guess that’s a niche

Shitty niche but still

[shell fossil]

it does kinda feel like ret with no b rez

[cinder haven]

But you have shroud

Once in a blue moon a tank asks to shroud the initial footmen pack in psf

Alright enough dooming

[wintry solar]

Yall remember the bunny icon in df?

That Realz said was a placeholder icon for a utility talent that we'd sometimes pick

[frail veldt]

can someone tell me

why

inky black potion

DOESNT WORK

in priory

[wintry solar]

And it it turned out to be precision shot?

That we always take

[frail veldt]

My cope is that outlaw helps to clear the pack after peoples cds end

so they arent forced to try and pop more cds

or like hit short cds

to finish a pack

[cinder haven]

Oiling the machinery

[frail veldt]

ye p much

I do think theres a lil something to that theory

at least in pugs

[cinder haven]

There is

[frail veldt]

in organized groups just remove outlaw

and do better routes around cds

[hardy thicket]

Thats always been our niche though

[stuck sparrow]

isnt fury warrior just better at that now

[hardy thicket]

probably? iuno lol

DH feels kinda good at that too now

their meta is barely a cd anyways

[hoary wave]

whats their cd like?

havoc

[stuck sparrow]

never was as aldrachi

[hoary wave]

1:30 ?

[hardy thicket]

2

[stuck sparrow]

1:30 is just hunt giving you a free reavers glaive

[hardy thicket]

ye

[cinder haven]

Probably replace outlaw with hunter

[hoary wave]

yeah isn bm cds like super short

[cinder haven]

BW is up a lot i think yeah

They probably do everything we do better, at range atm

[stuck sparrow]

fury is shorter

i would say ret but imo ret slows down keys

because padding fucks

[cinder haven]

We pad even more I think

[shell fossil]

it would be nice if we had like crippling poison as a 3rd poison for the warlocks and stuff

there's not a lot of engaging interplay for outlaw right now

[quaint mauve]

i timed a key

still made me wanna blow my brains bc my tank was chaining mobs that were 5% hp into next packs

[frail veldt]

no shot

at least the rets ive played with

pad 1000% more

[quaint mauve]

@frail veldt

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[frail veldt]

NA vibes

[quaint mauve]

i think

ive done irreversible dmg to my brain today

[fallen mural]

what should we aim to have for broadside aura %?

[quaint mauve]

its kinda outta ur control no?

its ur best buff though having it at 70%+ feels pretty good

or best buff imo

[stiff vector]

I can officially say my hunter does 2x the boss dam as my rogue actually crazy work they giga buffed this spec and not outlaw

didnt even lust, or have dh/sham/monk buff

2nd boss of Priory

[fallen mural]

🙁

[stiff vector]

like how am I supposed to go back to my rogue and play it knowing that im legit griefing the team and were going to be like 3+ min slower from just the difference in boss dam and prio

[cinder haven]

How is hunter survivability now?

[stiff vector]

pretty fine tbh

only fight I feel really squishy on is swampface tbh

[cinder haven]

Not immortal gods like us of course

[stiff vector]

but I have like 18-20% vers, 4% avoidance and DR BM kind of just has a lot of buttons to rotate so as long as you arent getting like giga targeted by every mechanic should be fine rotating your shit

[cinder haven]

Oh bm likes vers?

[stiff vector]

I obv still take infinitely less dam on outlaw but its definitely not squishy at all, compared to pushing on something like enhance

DR likes vers ye

[cinder haven]

But don’t you die if boredom?

[stiff vector]

its offset by actually getting invited to keys and being able to time them I guess

Id prefer to play outlaw but like...its just super hard to push past like 3500-3550+ without a dedicated 5 stack phys comp of blasters, you just literally cant time most of the 18s playing anything else(and even then, its still hard)

[cinder haven]

Yeah can’t refute that

[stiff vector]

I mean the spec is just legit complete ass

worst damage profile in the game easily, actively makes the keys slower, undertuned af compared to the actual good specs etc.

[cinder haven]

I felt so useless in floodgate yesterday

Only mildly useful on duo boss

[stiff vector]

ye you kind of just need to play phys comp w/ hunter and ahve the hunter carry to time like 17+ flood on outlaw

hunter just gotta put you in their backpack on most of the pulls and all the bosses lul

[cinder haven]

Could play assa there probably

Even with bugs it’s probably a lot more useful

[stiff vector]

ye if it wasnt giga bugged, but its ST is awful

[cinder haven]

At least you can do damage on big momma

Can maybe pull trash onto swampface too

[stiff vector]

you can pull some stuff onto duo+swampface but that funnel doesnt last that long, and you cant really pull anything onto last boss so the Assa prob just gonna do tank damage so unless youre giga fast in the rest of the key you prob just lose on last boss

[cinder haven]

looking at a top assa log first pull floodgate shredinator damage

singular focus..

ffs

[stiff vector]

ye I mean they can still do pretty good prio with lust+full CDs and everything but

[cinder haven]

I want funnel on outlaw so bad

[stiff vector]

spec is still super bugged, and it doesnt do that kind of prio on normal pulls with just regular CDs usually

[cinder haven]

but this is damage that matters

[stiff vector]

maybe when they fix it, and buff its pure ST it will be more viable

[cinder haven]

it's not like our pure ST is a lot better though?

in trickster 1fth build

[stiff vector]

no ofc not

[cinder haven]

I guess you are comparing to BM

I'm trying to salvage something for my rogue

[stiff vector]

but even bugged sin with terrible pure ST still has an infinitely more useful and impactful dmg profile than outlaw

[cinder haven]

I don't believe in sub

[stiff vector]

I mean sub is decent, but anyone who tihnks the spec is even close to meta is cooked

[cinder haven]

if casual is not playing it you know it's not good

does BM have some kind of funnel?

or is this just due to damage amp?

[stiff vector]

it does fairly good aoe once youre at a key level when you can basically have CDs for most packs, but it doesnt rly do prio/funnel and its pure ST isnt really that great. Kill time matters a lot for sub on bosses, like if youre able to go into a boss with CDs(which I mean isnt entirely realistic) and you kill the boss at like 3:10

subs boss dmg prob isnt going to look very good at all

look at their 20 ara kara log its comically painful

[cinder haven]

without bugs, assa damage profile is for sure the best among the rogue specs for keys

14 million overall wcl dps

jesus

[stiff vector]

like Zac and Wox are only timing those keys on outlaw because their team is ok with them playing outlaw and theyre goat'd on the spec, but they both know that if they were playing something else theyd time keys way easier and be way more competitive

[cinder haven]

dps to ixin while they were engaging it

[stiff vector]

thats why theres a pretty big gap between zac+wox and then the rest of the like top 20 outlaws

[quaint mauve]

those guys r like superhuman

[cinder haven]

yeah but it's still kinda throwing to play outlaw this season, even for superhumans

[rotund zodiac]

Bet they can play outlaw with blindfold

[quaint mauve]

i’ve fried my neurons today to the point that i can’t tell what’s going on on my screen

[quaint mauve]

yeah bc outlaw does useless damage

[cinder haven]

you're mixing us up with DH

[quaint mauve]

i wanna play an alt

[cinder haven]

maybe we do more prio damage if we play with blindfold

[quaint mauve]

but everytime i do

i get bored

even my monk

isn’t even fun for me rn

maybe people are right and i need a mage

i want apm

i want to think

[cinder haven]

arcane is kinda fun

[quaint mauve]

ughhh that’s also the issue

if i play mage

i want to play fire

[cinder haven]

but mage as an alt

idk

[quaint mauve]

the thing is though

i like high effort specs

[hardy thicket]

Havoc is fun and pretty high APM if you are looking for similar feel

also like Enhance or Fury

[quaint mauve]

yeah i might give that a go

[hardy thicket]

AR Havoc is kinda fun tbh even if its not DF S3 havoc

that shit was just bae

[quaint mauve]

i have a dh with a 10 rn but i’ve only played tank in m+ tho

[cinder haven]

enhance is cool tbh, but not very good this tier

[quaint mauve]

i only have experience with havoc in raid

[hardy thicket]

doesnt really matter i think

as long as you have any M+ experience on any other char lol

[cinder haven]

havoc can also do like 10m prio on ixin it seems

[hardy thicket]

Ye havoc is a funnel class now

its kinda fun

makes it less braindead

[quaint mauve]

only thing i dont like abt havoc

is

[cinder haven]

my issue is, the two people I play the most with main fdk and spriest right now, but their alts are havoc and hunter

[quaint mauve]

immo aura threat is still fucked

[cinder haven]

so it's weird if I alt havoc or hunter

[hardy thicket]

u dont really go into pulls with immo aura running now though

or ur trolling

so that kinda negates some of it

[cinder haven]

guess I could go fury

[hardy thicket]

havoc threat in general still feels fucked

[ripe ibex]

wtf is that comp

[hardy thicket]

I sometimes get meleed on havoc having thrown a sigil of flame to generate a soul and just AA-attacking my prio mob

its like uh

[cinder haven]

china

[ripe ibex]

they love frost mage

[strong halo]

It’s a good comp tbh

[cinder haven]

havoc didn't get the PI either

still beat the mage by like 3m overall

anything else that has good prio?

arcane I guess

[quaint mauve]

where r my buttons

[grim spear]

arcane is fun

or fire

[craggy kelp]

I thought dev evokes and bm were brain dead.

Holy fuck fury is so much worse

Literally rb enrage spam and it feels like you’re not doing anything

[cinder haven]

idk, maybe I just do havoc and play the rogue whenever my buddy wants to havoc

meleebrain doesn't wanna go ranged

at least not mage

[craggy kelp]

Fury does good dmg and is good rn don’t get me wrong

[cinder haven]

BM I could tolerate probably, but I'll get bored I'm sure

[craggy kelp]

It just legit does not feel like you’re doing anything to me idk

[cinder haven]

feels are important

[craggy kelp]

Like outlaw is fast too but at least crackshot windows feel real good

[frank flower]

Fire is basically melee tbh

[cinder haven]

I've tried fire a bunch of times

[frank flower]

It's optimal to be in range to tickle the mobs balls too

[cinder haven]

it's not my cup of tea

think you have to really dedicate yourself to it to be good at it

[frank flower]

Very fair

[cinder haven]

mage in general I feel isn't a great alt spec

[quaint mauve]

its a one trick spec imo

same with ol

[cinder haven]

yeah that's what I feel as well

the utility package is very good, but not easy to use well

[torpid fiber]

Tbh I think combo points are what make rogue feel so good, bc this doesn't happen

[frank flower]

Interesting tho, I really like outlaw as an alt because of the similarities to fire

[wintry solar]

Enjoy it while you can, there's there's chance it's gone in midnight. That's why I haven't rerolled.

Gotta say my goodbyes

[frank flower]

But yeah both are one trick specs or u Need stimulants

[craggy kelp]

I’m a mage main

[wintry solar]

I spit on you

[cinder haven]

you really expect crackshot to be gone in midnight?

[craggy kelp]

outlaw has just been my first spec since legion and it’s my ride or die alt

[wintry solar]

[frank flower]

[craggy kelp]

[wintry solar]

Yesh

[cinder haven]

5% chance at best for that I'd say

[wintry solar]

Fire?

I love fire

[cinder haven]

or risk

[craggy kelp]

I like all 3 specs

Idk mage as a class is super fun

[frank flower]

Fr*st

[craggy kelp]

Rogue only like outlaw/sub

[cinder haven]

I like assa in aoe

sub I don't like in pug keys at all

[craggy kelp]

Sin was cool in legion minmaxing kingsbane

I haven’t liked it since

[cinder haven]

outlaw always fun

[wintry solar]

It was very divisive so idk

[quaint mauve]

i really dont like dot classes

so i dont like sin

[wintry solar]

Lotta people left, lotta people liked it

[cinder haven]

what is it that you dislike about crackshot btw?

vanish jank?

[craggy kelp]

Also parses depending on PB procs

[wintry solar]

I don't dislike crackshot, I dislike uhuh

[cinder haven]

I also dislike uhuh

but crackshot is fun

[wintry solar]

But I also don't like playing the same thing this long

[cinder haven]

don't necessarily think it's nice that it is tied to vanish and subterfuge though

[frank flower]

What's uhuh?

[cinder haven]

we are so locked into specific talents

[wintry solar]

Underhanded upperhand

[cinder haven]

like our spec doesn't function unless you pick subterfuge from class tree

[wintry solar]

Adr pause

[frank flower]

Ah thanks

I think it's kinda cool tho, in m+ at least

Why do you guys not like it?

[cinder haven]

because it means we are tuned for having 100% adr uptime

[craggy kelp]

We are balanced around having adr uptime

[cinder haven]

and then we get downtime and it feels ass

[craggy kelp]

Which isn’t necessarily abad thing

It’s just we feel like dogshit without adr

[frank flower]

Uptime specs when the boss goes invulnerable:

[cinder haven]

they went ahead and tied even more power to adr with the haste cap implementation

[wintry solar]

I'd personally like crackshot be a button by itself and be away from subterfuge. Which I also don't like.

Buttons

[cinder haven]

crackshot could be a cd with cdr and 2 charges like vanish yeah

[wintry solar]

For charges

[cinder haven]

remove subterfuge interaction or something

idk

[wintry solar]

Keep crackshot AND stealthless outlaws will stop complaining

Everyone wins

Except uhuh lovers

[frank flower]

It is a bit weird how Important vanish/stealth is for outlaw, class fantasy wise at least

[wintry solar]

Yeah

It is what it is tho

Midnight rework announcement soon™

I prefer my 10 quadrillion bugs without subterfuge tyvm

[quaint mauve]

first drop on the havoc

oh

this isnt a good havoc trinket anymore it seems

[fallen mural]

druid buff verse warrior buff, warrior buffs us more right?

[shell fossil]

brez

unless you pull a demo lock for prio i think

[tired crow]

do we actually have something identical to the smartmisdirect weak aura?

[edgy walrus]

https://wago.io/kQ2LnX4zP

[tired crow]

does it work with delves for brann too?

[fallen mural]

well we got to 8.5

[hearty spear]

What embellishment would you guys go for if you’re playing all three specs in m+?

[proven ocean]

probably just dawnthread the vers one

or w.e its called

pure vers stat embell on leather

sub and outlaw like vers

assa doesnt care as long as ur not stacking vers items

[quaint mauve]

huge show those dork wads whos boss

[hearty spear]

Thanks mate!

[quaint mauve]

also guys tell me why i do more ST on my 700 ilvl dh

than my 713 ilvl ol

[viscid perch]

ask blizzard

[quaint mauve]

im close to bis on ol and in half vdh gear on havoc too 😕

@hardy thicket ty for the recommendation i didn’t realize they play no mover build now in m+

super fun alt ngl

brainless and easy

[hardy thicket]

Its not as brainless as it was a few iterations ago tho. Theres some fun min/max around ur reavers glaive and ensuring soul uptime etc

[jolly geyser]

tbf anything is more fun to play than this patch OL slop

[jade abyss]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/idGeEBp9eMgem61PKDRWQC

it's quite hard to get as a dps anyway but the tank trinket simming high is bait because you need to take damage or the passive damage you take in keys justify the dps increase?

[quaint mauve]

glaive minmaxing is fun

i have experience with hdh because i raided on it last season

but there’s no where near as much to keep up with

as ol

[stable wolf]

is OL rly that complicated atm? back in my day you just spam like a Fury Warrior would

[proper bear]

Fury feels a bit like outlaw, with great numbers and not nearly as much punishment for downtime

or intermissions

[stable wolf]

brain sync lel

[torpid fiber]

It's pretty complicated

[wintry solar]

I think it's interesting outlaw used to not be so complicated and it slowly became more and more complicated as time went on

[vivid vessel]

when was it not complicated

[wintry solar]

Legion and bfa

[vivid vessel]

arguably some SL builds were harder than now

not even a hot take actually

just a fact

[wintry solar]

There's a lot more moving parts now

[vivid vessel]

ok tbf

if you remove the whole hero talent bullshit

that no one want to deal with anyway

outlaw is just a normal spec

[shell fossil]

mastery gear bad

[red zinc]

12s are so fun man

truly unique people

[wintry solar]

I love the bottom dps telling us how to do boxx mechanics wrong

My favorite genre of player

[shell fossil]

the haste tax mechanic made sense but it's legitimately a nothing stat

[hardy thicket]

I feel like the difficulty raised to a whole new level when they introduced UHUH tbh

Cuz it introduced so much annoying shit and bugs. Despite being a cool and dopamine inducing playstyle

[wintry solar]

I personally think it's the same difficulty but it's a lot more annoying

[quaint mauve]

i just saw that antenna spawns a baby loomithar on ur head

[wintry solar]

It feels like a chore more than anything

[vivid vessel]

for trickster stuffs i agree

uuh idk

its fine to me

its just too punishing with downtime

whcih need fixed

[quaint mauve]

well got a lot of classes

their hero talents are actually you know

not a hassle to deal with

[torpid fiber]

I think it defs got harder from df s2 to df s3 but like in a cool way kinda

[quaint mauve]

and feel good

[vivid vessel]

doesnt really count

especially df s1

was like

[torpid fiber]

Yeah lmao

[vivid vessel]

one of the easiest outlaw iteration

so like

[torpid fiber]

I was about to say, df s1 was legit baby mode

[hardy thicket]

Mistakes before some bandaid fixes were really harsh even in DF S3

Plus you had to know buggy shit

Or you would just make them on accident

[vivid vessel]

yes

the bte thing wss cringe

[hardy thicket]

Ye

[torpid fiber]

yeah the bte thing was cringe

[hardy thicket]

Subterfuge in generaö

Was so cringe

[wintry solar]

Subt I'm not a fan of in general

[hardy thicket]

Like you could botch an entire fucking window if u didnt know

[wintry solar]

Never have since 04

[hardy thicket]

And lose ADR

[wintry solar]

Uhuh ain't exactly helping it's case either

When I saw it in the class tree I knew my goose was cooked lol

[hardy thicket]

Restealthing before subterfuge ran out only to have ur ADR keep ticking down in stealth and then have BtE go on CD first opener next pack really fun times

[wintry solar]

I hope we can talent out of it come midnight

[shell fossil]

outlaw is better with access to multiple buffs easily

but we realllly shouldn't be like greasing keys with lots of flat sustained damage

[wintry solar]

So what you're saying is

Buff CTO?

[shell fossil]

or make tier sets give better broadside/rp/tb procs

forcing kir is cool

there's plenty of ppl now who've played outlaw you know

[quaint mauve]

this sounds good

way better than a shitty ahh coup buff or whatever

[sudden quail]

How much damage is Sigil of the Cosmic Hunt doing for everyone? It's less than 2% of my damage in details

[unborn haven]

Im guessing we still run cudgel for m+? 🙂 And swap for bosses?

[quaint mauve]

if you get the one from the weekly box

[unborn haven]

Can just sim tho right?
Cause when im running my slice sim, it sims highest for me. Even tho i dont have the one from box yet

[quaint mauve]

do u have 720 oh?

[unborn haven]

no sadly. Do believe i have enough to craft tho, if i want

gonna sim and check

[quaint mauve]

i wouldn’t recommend crafting oh is pretty low priority

but then yeah the lower ilvl cudgel will be alright

[proper veldt]

guys its looking good

heroic third last on overall now too

not just boss damage

lets go

.5 buffs for sure for sure

[quaint mauve]

[proper veldt]

problem is mythic tho

need more dimi kills

[balmy topaz]

It’ll get worse and worse each week as well

As the kill timers get shorter

[proper veldt]

yeah

[wintry solar]

Crazy Arms being that low and an absolute beast in pvp. Interesting how that happens.

[balmy topaz]

They separate tuning tho

Which is why I don’t understand why they don’t have separate tuning for m+ and raid

[wintry solar]

Yeah but a lot of times what's good in pve is usually good in pvp too

And vice versa

It be like that

L arms anyway

Fury ftw

Rampage go brrrrrr

[quaint mauve]

i swear arms wasn’t bad? was it nerfed or did fury buffs lead to it being overshadowed

i saw critcake doing massive dmg on it in m+

[wintry solar]

I'd wager the 2nd one

I honestly dont know. I haven't seen many warriors due to the fact I only play with friends.

[vestal notch]

Fury is just better, but arms isnt dogshit

[sand berry]

arms kinda does outlaw single target

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[torpid fiber]

fury got the most insane hotfix ever

[spare dome]

mage spec is lower

so yea

unlucky for us, better luck next time

[kind otter]

is there an easy way to make certain WAs not show in pvp

[torpid fiber]

I'm pretty sure that's a load option, yeah

[wintry solar]

What WAs do you need in PvE but not PvP?

Nvm that's a dumb question.

[strange sierra]

!sheet

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[bold cape]

Hey guys, I was wondering, why is my DPS shit? I'm playing M+ pushed until 2500 rio... But my overal was never over 5m, usualy it's around 4,5-4,6 - 709IL

Watched plenty of guides about haste, rotation etc... and I think I'm doing everything right, but in the end, there is not enough pewpew

[ebon reef]

any logs?

may be low ADR/buff uptime

[bold cape]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/the-maelstrom/turim?zone=45&bybracket=1&private=1

can this be opened?

[eager rose]

Question

Need save Ks for all open packs or Just use on cd?

[quaint mauve]

can’t see leaderboard logs u need to actually log the key

[quaint mauve]

press KS on cd outside of stealth

the only time i ever hold it is if the pack is literally gonna die b4 my full KS goes through

you’re wasting cdr otherwise

[eager rose]

If in new pack i dont have ks up, bad?

[quaint mauve]

which in turn wasting ubs

[quaint mauve]

you’ll get it back up quickly anyway

[eager rose]

Thanks

[quaint mauve]

np

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-silly-cat-happy-cat-smile-gif-11748501437476694103

[ebon reef]

wouldnt that be also if theres additional adds spawning within ~5 seconds?

[bold cape]

What's an ADR buff?

[hardy thicket]

Adrenaline Rush

[bold cape]

ahh, I usually have it on, when I need to activate it again

but like, depends on pulls

[gaunt phoenix]

Err

[cinder haven]

I send ks at end of packs too

[hardy thicket]

I smash KS on CD

[cinder haven]

Not sure if good tho

[hardy thicket]

Gimme those UB stacks

[gaunt phoenix]

Outlaw's entire thing is to maintain adrenaline rush 94% of the key

[bold cape]

then I just need more practice

[chilly ember]

Such lucky

[vivid vessel]

wtf who got 2 before me

[chilly ember]

I just got

Haha

[vivid vessel]

I only have one

[chilly ember]

23% haste already

[vivid vessel]

hopefully monday reclear i get the other

[mighty pivot]

zac washed 🕉️

[vivid vessel]

hey bro

it is what it is

[chilly ember]

One hammer with a crafted offhand should be better than two hammers?

[celest nova]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue

[hasty warren]

kek

[bold cape]

One more question - when I get Coup de Grace, should I still use it with at least 5 combo points, or it doesn't matter?

[torpid fiber]

!trickster

how is that not a command

It's Complicated

[hasty warren]

Is crafting a belt is best thing to do this week or I should wait ?

[hasty warren]

It's better with high cp but u wont use SS when u have coup

so if u have to use SS to build cp then use coup now

[torpid fiber]

Check out this section of the FAQ, keeping in mind that you never press Coup during subterfuge (and hence the finisher standard would be 6 combo points, not 5)
#1276308344813916261 message

[bold cape]

Checked, many things clearer, thanks

[red zinc]

legion remix about to be a movie

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

push to +63 and 100s

[red zinc]

i dont even think its possible

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

saw someone solo a 43

but thats with 999% vers

[proven ocean]

u actually think any half gamer played ptr remix

i dont know nayone who tested it

[red zinc]

i mean has nothing to do with being good at the game

[proven ocean]

ofc it does

xd

[red zinc]

nobody is gonna have 999% vers thats like some cheating shit

ptr testing npc

[proven ocean]

wdym its literally remix

u get infinite powers

[red zinc]

not in this one

[proven ocean]

XD

if its capped at +63

then that means its possible

[red zinc]

you only really have "unlimited" vers (999 ranks of a 1% vers increase node)

the other stuff is from gear only

(which'll be about 200% of every stat)

[proven ocean]

we'll see about it

i cant solo a +2 but i can do a +20

xdd

its not the same thing when u have a grp cuh

[red zinc]

if you had enough vers to become a tank as a dps spec you could solo a lot of things

[proven ocean]

you literally said its not possible to do a 63

and that guy soloed 43

when hes just a random dude

5 man is like

way crazier than 1 man

[red zinc]

yes but he has a modifier that makes him about as strong as 5 people

takes hundreds of hours to get that on retail most likely

aint nobody putting in that time

[proven ocean]

idk how remix scaling works

but i wouldn't take a random wowhead player as a metric for this

99.99% of all players suck balls no offense to anyone

5 man is always way different than 1 man no matter the powers

u get raid buffs u get more cc's u have people who send cds on every pack

and so on

[red zinc]

I only want the +25 achievement anyway

cool ass set

[proven ocean]

what does it look like

[proven ocean]

also do we know whats the best class in remix yet or

[red zinc]

not outlaw

[proven ocean]

it can be outlaw u never know

if it has crazy cdr

it'll be super op

[red zinc]

i mean lowkey

[proven ocean]

because u can spam grappling hooks and sprints

but idk

[red zinc]

you do have cdr ability thing

[proven ocean]

nah its useless

thats a cd

has to be consistent

[red zinc]

and 200% haste on KS kinda wicked

[still matrix]

wtf is that set its wild

[red zinc]

u get this one for doing all mythic raids

[proven ocean]

holy fucking shit dude

@vivid vessel we playing remix

ok

or i ban you

zac

ok

?

[red zinc]

and these are just for campaign and world quests or somethin

[proven ocean]

@tough salmon u joining us btw

legion remix

cuh

or

?

we push +100 keys

no cappy

[desert tendon]

ok zero

calm down you bad at the game

[red zinc]

the real ogs will be leaderboard parsing on remix

!!

[proven ocean]

?!

[desert tendon]

What are you playing zero btw?

[still matrix]

Zeros still playing assa? back to game after weeks and do i keep gearing assa xD

[red zinc]

assa bad

[proven ocean]

all rogue specs bad

[red zinc]

got reverse outlaw'd

[proven ocean]

i only raid atm

[proven ocean]

idk

[red zinc]

BM is so good but tanks makin me do stuff

mfs moving for no reason

stampede more cringe than old KS I cant lie

[proven ocean]

dude

im so fucking hyped for legion remix

u have no idea

lmao

[red zinc]

idk

i worry its just gonna be another case of it taking a trillion hours to get OP

and then some exploiters find a method and it gets patched right after they used it

[proven ocean]

thats usually the case

XD

[red zinc]

yknow they could just

[proven ocean]

some random guy jumps 3 months of prog in 1 hr

and they slow down everything

[red zinc]

let everyone get op without too much work

[proven ocean]

for no fucking reason

[red zinc]

temporary mode and all that

[proven ocean]

how long does remix last

[red zinc]

start of october to end of january or smth

or mid january

[vivid vessel]

no ..

[proven ocean]

fuck you zac

[long barn]

Guys. I’m still getting logs with fatebound coins doing no dmg for periods of time even the lucky ones

[long barn]

Do you chase down orbs for antenna or is it not worth the dps uptime

There’s times where like they just won’t catch up as we move around like early areas in Halls

[cinder relic]

I want that armor set so it's time to remix for sure

[shell fossil]

outlaw on remix sounds fun

actually get to do legion and not just speed it

except for the intro quests

lol

[agile orchid]

Classes on remix are the same as retail right

[jolly geyser]

ye

[vivid vessel]

@keen belfry bro im trying to get the causese pack set up right

and i honestly dont get it

the anchors are so useless?

like nothing get copied

what even is the point

if 90% of stuffs dont get coppied from anchors

just make it even harder

for 0 reason

like either do it fully

or dont

[keen belfry]

Yes they suck

[vivid vessel]

idk i dont get it xd

what even is the point

like the bar textures dont even copy

the borders dont copy

the text format options dont copy

like wtf am i even using anchors for

??

[bold cape]

implemented everything you told me here... much much better, ty guys ❤️

[civic zephyr]

https://wago.io/Pd53s_NPU good or bad weakaura?

[hasty warren]

I have 500-600 ms server side

for no reason

[vivid vessel]

are you french

[hasty warren]

second time in the week

[vivid vessel]

yes you are

[hasty warren]

yes

[vivid vessel]

are you using bouygue

yes you are

[hasty warren]

yes

[vivid vessel]

I have just the solution for you !

[hasty warren]

cha,ge fai ?

[vivid vessel]

https://developers.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-one/connections/connect-devices/warp/download-warp/

you use this when you play wow

and idk call bouygue and tell them they suck

its litteraly everyone

french bouygue user

[hasty warren]

lol

k wanna try

[mighty pivot]

french ISPs

[vivid vessel]

idk man

worked fine for years

and suddently this week

you cant play wow using this isp

crazy to me ?

idk

I called them and they were clueless

[hasty warren]

gonna switch to free xd

[vivid vessel]

idk maybe it affect wow only

[mighty pivot]

they fucked up the routing?

[hasty warren]

on lol i've 40ms

[vivid vessel]

prolly idk

like im not a specialist right

[mighty pivot]

well 90% of the time it's routing

[shell fossil]

i also have been getting weird ping at 8pm recentlylast few days

[vivid vessel]

but basically everyone i know using bouygue in france has the same issue for like a few days now

[shell fossil]

happens every few months

[vivid vessel]

and if i check with winMTR

second hop

which is directly the isp as far as i know

is fucked up beyond repairs

[hasty warren]

since wednesday

[vivid vessel]

ye

but its not just wow i guess tho

cause