outlaw

[quaint mauve]

then we kill it after i get EVERY mechanic

[stiff glade]

It feels so bad man

[quiet root]

what the helly

[radiant vessel]

do you think its better to just use the haste flask to get to the recommended % over verse for example and just not worry about stacking haste on gear for the cap

[stiff glade]

It doesn't really matter how you get to the cap. The flask you're using is kinda the same as gear. It's just stats

[quaint mauve]

19% isn’t a recommendation for kir

it’s mandatory

[radiant vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/silentalume-gif-18423854236610232158

[cinder haven]

GS is weird on trickster. GS on CD is 0.2% worse than GS only if not on full cp, but only using GS at 5 or less CP if BS is up (actually avoiding CP waste) is also 0.2% worse

[wintry solar]

That first part makes sense but the second is really weird

[cinder haven]

yeah first is expected

maybe something about holding GS too much in stealth

[mighty pivot]

if it affects GS uptime then the 2nd one also makes a lot of sense

[cinder haven]

even if you allow sending GS at 6+ if GS is missing it is still somehow a 0.2% loss

oh well, I give up

doesn't matter I guess

[wintry solar]

Glad I wasn't doing that. That 0.2% def hard carries me.

[torpid fiber]

my guess is that it's pretty rare to get GS up at 6cp, but when you do it's more value to press it then and waste 1cp than press it later and waste 6cp of cdr

It's the same as the adr thing, we care about density of cp spent in a cd rather than holding buttons for when they'd run out

no clue why sending at full is 0.2% worse though

Hmm

[cinder haven]

maybe it's an energy thing

[torpid fiber]

maybe

Idk, lots of possibilities and we can't really know

[cinder haven]

this is kinda why I'm looking at this in the first place

[torpid fiber]

Outlaw is a black box

[cinder haven]

nah, we know a lot about the inner workings

some mysteries left to solve of course

[mighty pivot]

just in time for it to change entirely with midnight

[cinder haven]

sometimes I look at sample sim logs and wonder if stuff it does is really optimal

[torpid fiber]

its like a CPU to me kinda
We know the rules and most of the parts but when you put it together the system is complicated enough that it's basically impossible to be sure what f(x+y) actually will do

[cinder haven]

like this

pain

poor bot

one of us

[mighty pivot]

the legendary 5xSS

[cinder haven]

FF stacks more or less running out before he can vanish

[wintry solar]

5 SS used to not be so bad

[torpid fiber]

bt gm tb

[cinder haven]

but the question is really, what could he have done to save this?

[torpid fiber]

yeah

I don't know if there's any better options

Just got #owned by rng

[cinder haven]

rtb looks like it could've been before the bte

I do think its correct to build to 7 here so that you have better chance of ace chain

[torpid fiber]

It has 3 buffs before the rtb press

[wintry solar]

Maybe rtb before bte? Idk

Nvm beat me to it

[mighty pivot]

did it send cdg before KS only because it was at 5cp instead of 6?

[cinder haven]

I think so

and I simmed that yesterday

all the other options are worse

[torpid fiber]

Wait does it not have adr up?

am I blind

[mighty pivot]

it does it just doesn't auras you have pre-pull iirc

[cinder haven]

yeah it wouldn't vanish without

[mighty pivot]

now this I find strange because losing 1 cp on KS sounds way less severe than losing 2 cdg worth of cdr on it

[cinder haven]

basically I tried the following yesterday:

1. Block low CP coup if KS is up -> leads to wasted UB
2. Low CP KS if coup is available and you would have to build with SS -> you lose too much CDR

I didn't try 5 cp KS specifically

I think you want to end up at at least 7 after the KS

especially if you are gonna vanish

CDR on KS vs wasting UB procs you can think about a bit

wasting CDR on KS is wasting fractional UB only

actually pressing SS with DS up is worse

[mighty pivot]

might be worth trying only allowing 2) at 5cp

[cinder haven]

yeah, that could be something

is KS even affected by BS?

[mighty pivot]

no

[cinder haven]

[mighty pivot]

new KS being a special finisher that generates combo points created all kinds of interpretation issues

[cinder haven]

so you'll end up on 6CP unless lucky with ruthlessness

[mighty pivot]

yes

well if you send at 5 cp you always end up at 6

[cinder haven]

idk, it'll be neutral at best I think

true, can't get lucky

then you have less chance of a good ace chain in the vanish window after

[wintry solar]

Chat this sucks

[mighty pivot]

it's a trade of 1 cp at the end up KS to be able to cdg at 6 and then at whatever after, and build to vanish immediately on high FF stacks

the combo points that you'll gain from KS go to cdg not vanish

[cinder haven]

unless you still have DS stacks for some reason

then it would be very bad

but you shouldn't have

[mighty pivot]

it cannot be because DS has priority over the plain UB no?

you need at least 2 SS to gain cdg

[cinder haven]

maybe can happen in the opener

or? maybe it can't

yeah for sure you need at least two SS

we did it

within error margin though

[mighty pivot]

not a loss at least

[cinder haven]

can try 4 CP too but I feel like that will be a loss

[mighty pivot]

I did try always sending KS at 4 CP at some point and it was a loss because you gamba ruthlessness

[cinder haven]

yeah that's what I was thinking too

then you can end up on 4 CP after

pressing SS there gets you at least 2 extra CP

and can get you up to 6

[mighty pivot]

maybe it's less of an issue here because you have cdg ready anyway but dunno

[cinder haven]

yeah but I think we overestimate the value of getting cdr on KS

it's nice, but not huge

yeah 4cp is loss

smol of course

but bigger than error margin

[mighty pivot]

maybe it is overestimated but KS giving you DS also affects future cdg procs (and UB does a lot of damage). So it affects several things

[wintry solar]

Yeah, doesn't stop me from kicking myself when I do it tho

[cinder haven]

yeah, but it's for sure not worth wasting an actual UB proc by pressing SS in order to gain fractional UB procs via KS cdr

[mighty pivot]

no, pressing SS there feeling bad makes sense

[cinder haven]

another thing the bot did was to use PS to get a bigger coup

could possible have saved that for after the coups

idk if it would've been better

[mighty pivot]

that was with opportunity so it's expected

only UB proccing builders are banned

[cinder haven]

it's expected because I've forced it to do this yeah

doesn't mean it's right

perhaps it should hold the opp if KS is available

[mighty pivot]

you mean for this run specifically or in general? because that should be part of the default prio

holding it for KS might be an idea

[cinder haven]

there's no difference

it's my rule to begin with

in this experimental apl it holds fth a bit more

for vanish and stuff

[mighty pivot]

but then you don't check for KS being available you need to check for whether KS will be available when the coups are done

[cinder haven]

so unless it is low on energy it wouldn't even use the PS to build to KS at such low fth stacks on 1 fth

it does get low on energy in this sequence though

so maybe?

so block PS if both KS and coup are available?

so it falls down to the low cp coup line

it feels a bit like this will be bad

TC work live with chat

[wintry solar]

You should stream this stuff

I know I'd watch

I'd also learn.

[cinder haven]

yeah, but I don't wanna

[wintry solar]

A hard counter

[mighty pivot]

block PS if cdg is up and KS cd < (10 * (1 + (0.5 * tb)) + 2 ish or something

doesn't take into account your current cp like that so in theory it could be even more than that

[cinder haven]

I started with just both KS and coup available

seems neutral/loss

the 5 CP KS seems neutral at best too now that I've run it a few more times

[mighty pivot]

unluck

I guess you're doomed if you low roll opportunity but high roll UB procs

[cinder haven]

all of this goes away when they fix EB stacks

soon surely

[mighty pivot]

"when"

[cinder haven]

now Vai has given up so probably today

[mighty pivot]

vai is beyond redemption he had crimson name last I checked

[wintry solar]

You're literally blue

[mighty pivot]

only yellow or teal is ok

[wintry solar]

Teal is a shade of blue

And the color of cringe

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel china is so based for this

[mighty pivot]

ok 🦶 popo 🦶

[wintry solar]

Yellow is cool because it's both the spec color and rogue color

Which makes outlaw the real rogue spec.

[mighty pivot]

sub should have purpol role colour to be tbh, but teal is also ok

I'm a bit of a yellow hater irl

[wintry solar]

Same tbh

Wow is the only place I like it

[mighty pivot]

so even when I played only outlaw I still preferred the sub colour in here

[wintry solar]

Tobs going to lose his hair fidgeting with that APL just for retail to die in 17 days and midnight release shortly after remix's lifespan.

[mighty pivot]

well then there will be new things to figure out

it never ends

[cinder haven]

I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it

[wintry solar]

Sure but that's next expacs problem

[cinder haven]

I don't have much hair left anyway

[mighty pivot]

he's lying solo is keeping him at gunpoint against his will

[wintry solar]

He's losing hair because solo plucks it out when there are no outlaw findings after a while

[cinder haven]

I'm just making more work for solo

[mighty pivot]

"it does its sim or it gets the hose!"

[cinder haven]

a million 0.1% cooks that he has to vet

[red zinc]

we got the same rules

[wintry solar]

That's 1000% increase

[proven ocean]

not really lol

wdym

their rules are way different

[red zinc]

They are banning for piloting boosts

[cinder haven]

I see it this way too, but not everyone does

[proven ocean]

and taking items back and many more lol

how are those the same rules

XD

[red zinc]

Aint allowed here either but western blizzard doesnt do shit

[proven ocean]

its not not allowed

u can play on family members accounts

if ur married and stuff

there they dont give a shit

they ban everything

[wintry solar]

We see the vision

[proven ocean]

they ban loot funneling and alot of random shit so

[mighty pivot]

damn all hopeful had to do is marry that guy

[cinder haven]

but can you pay someone to play your account for rio according to TOS? surely not allowed in the west either

[red zinc]

It aint

[cinder haven]

but having rules and enforcing them are not the same

[wintry solar]

I log on to other people's accounts all the time

[cinder haven]

reported

[wintry solar]

[red zinc]

if you want to get someone actioned for an offense against tos you need to either massreport to hell so they get autoflagged

Or work your way through the AI customer support

[proven ocean]

if its not back to back login

they'll never know

[mighty pivot]

also is it me or does not hopeful look like the bad guy from For A Few Dollars More?

[proven ocean]

because u could be travelling

if say u login in australia

1 min later

in london

thats a ban and a half

but

[wintry solar]

Cross state and country though?

[proven ocean]

half the game already uses exitlag

so they dont rly ban cuz of it

[cinder haven]

If they can autodetect they can enforce the rule yeah

[proven ocean]

exitlag reduces the shit servers they have

input lag and stuff

[wintry solar]

Nothing yet, I love being a delinquent.

[proven ocean]

well they can its just not a issue

at all

because if it was an issue then they'd remove every title that was acquired with only 2 days of work

from that bug

ppl got the title by not playing entire season

only 2 days

pre patch rio btw

good thing they know the title is irrelevant

atleast to top players that is

so nobody's really complaining about it

[wintry solar]

Nobody really cares

They just fixed the bug and that was that

[proven ocean]

what are u talking about

XD

[daring oxide]

I’m expecting great things tonight

[wintry solar]

I'm sure blizz cared more about the exploits existence than the rewards themselves

[daring oxide]

🤞

[proven ocean]

this

tf does that mean

fixed what

[wintry solar]

I'm not taking it

[proven ocean]

ur just typing random shit tho

[wintry solar]

51% is a brave number

[proven ocean]

i love it

[daring oxide]

[proven ocean]

[daring oxide]

Is today the day I go back yellow

[wintry solar]

Are you talking about the rep from s2?

[cinder haven]

Now you’ve jinxed it

[proven ocean]

@wintry solar

title

M+ title of season 2

0.1%

what rep

ppl abused the rio system in prepatch

[wintry solar]

Okay nvm then, misunderstanding

[proven ocean]

to get the title

becaused like

a +20

was like a +12

so ppl just did all 20s

and got the title in 1 day

oh nah

season 1

i think

ye

s1 title

[vivid vessel]

Guys ..

Stop yapping

[wintry solar]

Dang that's wild tbh

[proven ocean]

why

[wintry solar]

No Zac

We're conversating

[vivid vessel]

No you..

[wintry solar]

Better read up

[cinder haven]

Nah we are yapping but we’re always yapping so I don’t see what’s new

[wintry solar]

Tob you playing remix?

[cinder haven]

Not sure

Might play poe or something instead

[wintry solar]

Probably a good call tbh

[shell fossil]

it's like mop remix right with retail champs in legion xpac?

[cinder haven]

Or play the .5 patch if buddies want to

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[cinder haven]

I didn’t play the mop remix

[wintry solar]

They don't really have a lot of interesting stuff this time around imo.

[cinder haven]

What’s the point?

Just mogs?

[wintry solar]

Cosmetic stuff yeah

[cinder haven]

M+ rating ?

[wintry solar]

There's a bunch of mounts but 99% of them are recolored goats and hippogryphs

[quaint mauve]

this game sucks mannnnnnnnn

why can’t i do 10s on my alt

[cinder haven]

Everyone is geared and your alt isn’t

[quaint mauve]

my healer died 6 times on the first pull and then quit

[cinder haven]

Oh you actually got into a key

[quaint mauve]

why r these geared people playing like cement eaters in my key

[quaint mauve]

i pushed my own

+3 +3 +3

[cinder haven]

Why else would they still be doing tens?

[quaint mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-silly-cat-happy-cat-smile-gif-11748501437476694103

for the gear

just like me

[cinder haven]

Best case you get some other alts

But it’s hit and miss

[wintry solar]

You get gear from vault, not dungeons

Everyone knows this

[quaint mauve]

popo

i think

i do

[cinder haven]

Many people only know how to play their main

[quaint mauve]

i have a 550 chest and neck

from s1 timewalking

[wintry solar]

Oof

[quaint mauve]

maybe it’s my fault

for attempting to play something

that isn’t a rogue

but there’s no 15s posted

so

[real flax]

hello fam outlaw

Got question , we have physical team ; rogue dk feral sham . we are missing tank , which one has the most valuable buff , would you say war prot or monk tank

[quaint mauve]

i think monk is better buff

[agile orchid]

warrior buff is superior

[real flax]

the debuff on the mob will be stronger than the battle shout

[agile orchid]

it affects your magic damage abilities too

compared to monk buff that only affects physical

[real flax]

yes for DK will be stronger then

[quaint mauve]

you don’t want to time keys…. you want to farm damage charts to flex in this chat

[real flax]

what are you talking about lol

[quaint mauve]

monk buff>

[real flax]

ok so for you monk buff will be stronger than the battle shout in overall

[wintry solar]

I see your vision dw

[real flax]

Im the one playing outlaw btw so i have no desire to flex in here

[wintry solar]

The man is afraid of glory

[quaint mauve]

they don’t want greatness….

[proven ocean]

Most ilvl gained is from dungeons

But its a week 1 thing

[wintry solar]

It was moreso a joke about not getting loot in many dungeon runs

[jovial sedge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jolly geyser]

@vivid vessel new emote in RH?

[gaunt phoenix]

😨

[vivid vessel]

nice

[jolly geyser]

somnius would have liked it

[vivid vessel]

rip somnius ..

[heady gale]

how is the fatebound/ Sleight of hand in keys? 🤠

[zealous plinth]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[cedar kernel]

[wintry solar]

Does anyone talk to Somnius still?

[cedar kernel]

i dont have somnius friend

[wintry solar]

I need someone to ask a question for me

[cedar kernel]

but i saw hataro dm me once

[jolly geyser]

what you wanna ask?

[wintry solar]

What was the band he suggested to me the other day

[vivid vessel]

popo!

[wintry solar]

Its not in my youtube history anymore

[vivid vessel]

you are so cooked dude !

[wintry solar]

Hi zac

[vivid vessel]

hi

[wintry solar]

What did I do?

[vivid vessel]

idk nothing

[wintry solar]

Woe!

My ac won't turn off so I'm actually the opposite of cooked rn

[ebon reef]

can you give me that ac

i fried in the university building

[simple gull]

If my coup is ready will it start building towards the second coup already or do I have to send my coup asap for it to start again?

[ebon reef]

spend

im reading the pin and im already having a headache

[wintry solar]

Give? No. I can share though

[ebon reef]

can you point it in my direction for a bit

[wintry solar]

Just for a bit

[gaunt phoenix]

it wont start building to the next one, so unseen blades sent in between coups are wasted

That's why you send coup early if you have to press ss

[simple gull]

Ah makes sense, ty

[hasty warren]

hi piratez

[gloomy coral]

[gaunt phoenix]

he's right

[vivid vessel]

he's right

[gloomy coral]

Can we fake some outrage pls

[vivid vessel]

no

[gloomy coral]

Very ethical, I like that

Shut up brey

I saw you typing

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw is peak

they dont know what to do with it

but it's peak !

[tulip crow]

I was looking for a guitar to post.

In response to the ask for outrage.

[gloomy coral]

Ranged players have no place here

[tulip tiger]

1-0

[cinder haven]

what are we raging about today?

[gloomy coral]

bfa being peak outlaw design

[cinder haven]

ah that one

topic #7

[tulip tiger]

lowkey amirdrassil was peak

[cinder haven]

kinda impressive that we have so many topics tbh

[gloomy coral]

It has to find room inbetween topics #6 where are our buffs and topic #8 I dont want to play sub

[tulip crow]

What is topic #3?

[cinder haven]

uncap BF

not to be confused with #4, outlaw damage profile

[gloomy coral]

Thankfully we managed to remove #4 guys I have feedback for designer

[cinder haven]

we have no damage profile anymore you mean? I guess

[gloomy coral]

Oh, mistype, I meant topic number 9

Large hands, you know how it is

[cinder haven]

right

topic rankings vary slightly over the weeks so it's an easy mistake to make

[gaunt phoenix]

which topic is mastery rework?

[cinder haven]

probably #2 these days

only beaten by #1 where outlaw buffs

[red zinc]

what about topic #17

the one banned by solo

[mighty pivot]

I would like to submit topic #69, it's about time this is fixed

[jolly geyser]

6 7

[granite merlin]

Huh turns out to be way better at outlaw I had to accept not playing the meta and go HO :0

[rotund zodiac]

Where is our buff?

[granite merlin]

Ty to the outlaw rogue who made the YouTube video it made me feel way better about playing the class 🙂

[rotund zodiac]

Which one

[cinder haven]

there is a video?

timmy was gonna make one?

[hoary wave]

Outlaw youtube is this even real

might be ai generated

[rotund zodiac]

The only outlaw guy I can think of is Dalaran gaming

[granite merlin]

The one showing playing HO is less dmg but if your bad at kir HO will net overall better results

Yeah Dalaran he talks about brass pushing high keys as HO

Nessa

Effing auto correct

[cinder haven]

#outlaw-faq here says the same thing pretty much

the damage gap is a bit bigger than it usually is this season though

[vivid vessel]

dalaran 💀

[balmy topaz]

[cinder haven]

make your own video if you don't want people to watch dalaran gaming

[balmy topaz]

Yeah zac

You’re so toxic

[vivid vessel]

frfr

[cinder haven]

found another outlaw guide!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-edN3bbMg9o

[rotund zodiac]

Zac outlaw guide when

[cinder haven]

anyone in here guilty of this one?

[quiet root]

i'd watch a zac outlaw guide

[mighty pivot]

in french

[quiet root]

i'd watch it in french if that's what it took

[vivid vessel]

with the stupid AI voice over thing

[mighty pivot]

and at the end of it he will do a dance

[quiet root]

no gotta be voice reveal angle

[balmy topaz]

Zac talking about outlaw: 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[mighty pivot]

50% of the video will be complaints about how the baguette weapons are daggers

[balmy topaz]

True

[cinder haven]

I'm gonna watch this new video

[balmy topaz]

I wanna hear how you find it

[cinder haven]

so far it's not bad actually

he's explaining the basic talent interactions fairly well

[vivid vessel]

i wanna watrch it aswell

will do

[wintry solar]

He's full of poopy caca

Now legion outlaw

That was peak

Not legion, Shadowlands.

[gloomy coral]

[wintry solar]

Legion was peak spec identity

Don't (x)

I'm always right about everything

Ever

[cinder haven]

watched it to the end, it was not shit

useful even

[wintry solar]

Did you learn anything?

[cinder haven]

ofc not

[wintry solar]

A day you dont learn anything us a day wasted

Like, today I learned Koffing has bad taste.

[cinder haven]

I learned that there is a not shit outlaw video guide for tww s3

possibly even good enough to link to new players

[balmy topaz]

Presume it doesn’t dabble into the advanced stuff too much

[cinder haven]

it doesn't go into all the cooks of course

[vivid vessel]

10min long

kinda expected

[balmy topaz]

Ye fair

[cinder haven]

but he crammed a lot of good info in

[wintry solar]

I wonder if people 6 years from now say "I miss this outlaw" like they do the older guides.

[balmy topaz]

Doubt it

[vivid vessel]

no one will miss current hero talents

that i can tel lyou

[balmy topaz]

Trickster is so ass

And fatebound is well

[cinder haven]

trickster could be pretty good

[balmy topaz]

Macro play is not fun

[cinder haven]

if they fix the glaring issues

[vivid vessel]

both could be good

litteraly

so quick to fix

[cinder haven]

ye

[vivid vessel]

they just dont :)

[balmy topaz]

Reroll mage bro they get everything

[cursive radish]

its kidna weird, ive been using swift slasher instead of slight of hand for mythic plus, this has been outperforming but i think its because my haste is so high. anyone else experimenting with this?

[wintry solar]

Those quick fixes are expansion level changes btw

As per blizz

[cinder haven]

got logs to compare?

would be interesting

[wintry solar]

Gotta be hunter for that

[cursive radish]

i didnt see any logs, but 3 days of keys i noticed a large difference

[vivid vessel]

how do you know its outperforming tho

[cursive radish]

again, could be because of how much haste i have, 31%

[vivid vessel]

31

[cursive radish]

err, i didnt save the logs

[balmy topaz]

31%?????

[cursive radish]

thought id share incase anyone else noticed

[balmy topaz]

You in perma lust?

[vivid vessel]

trente et un ??

[cinder haven]

more UB procs?!

[vivid vessel]

true i guess you get more ub procs

[cinder haven]

maybe if we could track if we got a proc from AA it would be good?

[balmy topaz]

[vivid vessel]

no actually

yuou dont ?

[cursive radish]

tons and tons of procs, really

[vivid vessel]

its rrppm or whatever the fuck the thing

[cinder haven]

oh is it

boring

it's hasted tho

[vivid vessel]

ye

[cinder haven]

but no interaction with SS

[vivid vessel]

but snd talent doesnt care aboput that

[jolly geyser]

@wintry solar Between the buried and me, he said

[wintry solar]

Awesome thank you

[jolly geyser]

[wintry solar]

Somnius the type a guy to give me music recommendations

[vivid vessel]

I can give you music recommendations

what do you want

[wintry solar]

I've been into prog metal lately but I listen to everything besides thug rap

It's a square answer but my music pallette is honestly really diverse.

[jolly geyser]

I get ya

I dont listen to mumble rap

[wintry solar]

Yeah that too

[jolly geyser]

or if the beat is shit

[vivid vessel]

Idk what prog metal is

You have an example

Maybe I got some

[wintry solar]

Opeth, Meshuggah, Katatonia.

[jolly geyser]

dream theater,gojira

[wintry solar]

Sounds familiar?

Yeah

[vivid vessel]

I don't

Gojira only

My favorite metal band

[wintry solar]

From Mars to Sirius is their best work imo

I think most people would say that

They don't really have a bad album

[vivid vessel]

https://open.spotify.com/track/3DQs678YUdTMJ0FG7EDWzf?si=imjNXNilQbuW42-_HbpxUA&context=spotify%3Aplaylist%3A37i9dQZF1DX5wgKYQVRARv apparently this is considered prog metal, I can't really figure out what prog metal is tho but this was in the category

It's a french guy

Igorr

Does very cool stuffs between metal and more experimental stuffs

[wintry solar]

It's just metal with a lot of technical stuff, a lot of times has jazz or classical influences.

Sometimes both like Opeth

[jolly geyser]

melodic death metal is prog also,I listen to quite abit of that

[wintry solar]

You listen to Funeral Tears?

[vivid vessel]

Wdym by technical stuff

[jolly geyser]

havent heard

[wintry solar]

You should, I recommend For You

[vivid vessel]

I'm ngl

[wintry solar]

Technical as in a lot of skill through like musical theory coordination

[vivid vessel]

It just seems like metal to me

Ok I think I get it actually

It's metal but not like

[jolly geyser]

if its sounds good I add to playlist

[vivid vessel]

It's metal that is more light

With like

[wintry solar]

For sure

[vivid vessel]

Pussy singing and shit

I see

It's like what casualaddict listen to no

[jolly geyser]

pussy singing

[keen belfry]

How dare you

[vivid vessel]

Sleep token

[wintry solar]

Not necessarily

Sleep token isn't metal idc

[vivid vessel]

Ok I'm right no?

[wintry solar]

No

Is pussy singing just singing in general?

[jolly geyser]

sleep token does plenty harsh vocals,but they mix alot of genres so idk what you can call em

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Like when you sing

In a metal song

It's always slightly weird to me

[jolly geyser]

I like it

[vivid vessel]

Idk why

I listen to a lot of metal but usually it's metal without actual singing

[wintry solar]

That's funny

[vivid vessel]

Just screams you know

[wintry solar]

Yeah I get it

[vivid vessel]

And then I listen to a lot of normal shit where there is singing and it doesn't bother me I like it

It's just the mix of metal with pussy singing

That often sound weird to me

But idk why

I love like

Women signing tho

But with like

Opera type shit

In metal

[gaunt phoenix]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[vivid vessel]

This guy is struggling

[wintry solar]

I think you'd like Opeth, they have a lot of folk in their music.

[lyric bay]

Way more than i accept

[gaunt phoenix]

you dont have to delete your message

[lyric bay]

I was cutting Zac

[gaunt phoenix]

good

[wintry solar]

We're talking about music it's fine

[jolly geyser]

we are just talking music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBZ5SLJmfdw one of my fav melo death metal songs

[wintry solar]

I really love doom metal as well

[vivid vessel]

what is doom metal now

[floral compass]

I want my kick macro to prio focus then mouseover then just kick normally

but all it does now is kick focus

[gaunt phoenix]

is that () or [] ?

[vivid vessel]

you can have 2 lines i think

simply

[]

[wintry solar]

https://youtu.be/S8WDoY5QslA

[wintry solar]

That's sick, I like that a lot.

[floral compass]

its [] but it looks like ()

[vivid vessel]

idk its just metal

[wintry solar]

Caveman vibe

[cursive radish]

i mentioned the swift slasher build im messing with, my stats look like this. Should i try to replace some haste with more crit/vers?

[vivid vessel]

you know what spotify is missing

i wish i could filter my playlist

by style

like i just have a playlist with all the ongs i like

[gaunt phoenix]

29% raw haste is way too high yeah

[vivid vessel]

with like 1.3k songs

[wintry solar]

That's so true

[vivid vessel]

but i cant even search for a style inside it

s cringe !

[gaunt phoenix]

Swift slasher is not strong enough to overload on haste beyond the AR cap

[cursive radish]

it does feel really good doing this "white attack, old school combat rogue' vibe

[vivid vessel]

i mean your melees are prolly still doing like only 3% of your damage tho

[cursive radish]

but yall are the pros lol

[jolly geyser]

uh oh

[vivid vessel]

wtf madisson beer dropped a new music video !

[wintry solar]

We dont shit on Slasher enough imo

[gaunt phoenix]

madison beer is the worst popstar name

[vivid vessel]

hey

dont talk shit about my queen

[wintry solar]

Muh qweeeen

[vivid vessel]

also isnt it just her name

like wtf do you do

rename yourself or what

[gaunt phoenix]

well ye

stage name

[wintry solar]

I can't believe solo would make fun of someone's name tbh

[vivid vessel]

ye ..

[jolly geyser]

solo more like

duo

[vivid vessel]

especially making fun of my queen bro ..

ok the song is trash

[wintry solar]

I'm literally shaking, I have to lay down.

I hate when one of my goats drops garbage music

[vivid vessel]

real

cant wait for the new sabrina carpenter song ..

im not a madison beer fan anymore

[wintry solar]

When Ozzy dropped Ordinary Man...

[mighty pivot]

you had a goat named ozzy?

[wintry solar]

All My Life and Under The Graveyard hard carries that album.

Yeah

He died back in July

[blazing creek]

this is a dumb question - but what am i trying to control by tracking unseen blade? making sure i'm doing crackshot/ KS in those windows? anything else?

[mighty pivot]

how many goats does your farm have popo?

[gaunt phoenix]

you track when unseen blade is guaranteed so you can prioritize sinister strike to consume them

killing spree gives you 2 unseen blades

[wintry solar]

Soon none, all the greats are old and slowly dying off.

They don't make em like they used to

Smh

[mighty pivot]

ok grandpa

[granite merlin]

Zac you ever listen to Youthstar, Chineseman, Senbai etc I somehow have gotten into French hip hop lol

[wintry solar]

I should get farm animals again

[vivid vessel]

are these people french

[wintry solar]

Maybe goats too

[vivid vessel]

legit never heard of

[granite merlin]

Yah all of them

[blazing creek]

ty

[granite merlin]

It’s flooded my algorithm

[wintry solar]

Zac you like goat milk or cheese?

[vivid vessel]

idk neither i guess

ah ye chineseman

i know by name

but never really listened

i know my parents went to see them

[granite merlin]

That tracks I’m 45 lol

[vivid vessel]

haha

[cinder haven]

older than me !

[wintry solar]

You're 44

That barely counts

[vivid vessel]

Your are 42

Imagine being old tho

Kekw

Losers !

[cinder haven]

just you wait!

time will get you too

[vivid vessel]

By the time I get old you will be older noob

[granite merlin]

lol it’s true.

[cinder haven]

I cannot refute that

[granite merlin]

Hard to play catch up to the old age ilvl unless you turbo boost with meth.

[wintry solar]

Or manual labor

[cinder haven]

manual labor + smoking

[granite merlin]

lol but my roofer knees are 74

[vivid vessel]

[cinder haven]

what kind of gamer PC do you think you can get at the retirement homes tho?

[dense bolt]

a dell prob

insane

vibes

[cinder haven]

dell...

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-27058877

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/starwars-obi-wan-now-thats-a-name-ive-not-heard-in-along-time-gif-11814407

[quiet root]

prog and doom listener

he just like me frfr

[fervent garden]

madisson beer grew up one town away from me.

doubt she visits anymore

heh

[covert kestrel]

[jolly geyser]

what if beer drinks beer

[wintry solar]

[keen belfry]

Sup

[median nest]

Hi I am completely new to the outlaw spec. Do I still use dagger in off-hand?

[gaunt phoenix]

you can, it is nearly identical to a sword/fist/axe/mace

[median nest]

So a 720 dagger is better than a 710 sword then?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[median nest]

cool

thx alot btw

[gaunt phoenix]

Raidbots also knows this

[quick scaffold]

how to get bte to do more crit damage

[vivid vessel]

get more ilvl

[median nest]

Struggling with rotation alot. only got 2.2 mil single target damage on dummy

playing the keep it rolling spec

my ilvl is 713 btw

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw is a lot. remember we are not a cooldown spec. your cds are really integral to the rotation

[quick scaffold]

ik i gotta be doing some wrong on single target i get 2.5m vs aoe i can pull 7-8mil constant

[median nest]

I get the same as you

gonna sim and see how I should be on single target

sim says 3.57 and I get around 2.1 O_o

anyone got a good videon advice I can watch to learn the rotation priorities?

[silver mica]

[cinder haven]

I actually saw a decent outlaw video guide today

But you need to read #outlaw-faq too

It was this video, not perfect by any means but it does a decent job at explaining some key concepts

https://youtu.be/-edN3bbMg9o?si=29dLG3VKm81KT4M0

[jolly geyser]

[frail veldt]

I have a 4070ti getting like 100fps on medium settings

[wintry solar]

I wonder why it took that guy in spongebob 3 days to make that potato salad

[frail veldt]

What about GS for uptime only on bosses but otherwise normal

Unless you have a ton of energy then use it for cps on CD

I kinda vibe GS in st as trickster

[cinder haven]

Nah man I gave up on optimising GS on trickster

[frail veldt]

Fair haha

[hollow temple]

outlaw ST dps in keys is giga trash ...

[frail veldt]

It can be okay if you go into a boss with lots of buffs

[cinder haven]

Time for topic #1

Where outlaw buffs?

[craggy quiver]

You said the thing!

[sullen walrus]

nightfall weapon is still working?

[cinder haven]

I got gapped by an mm hunter today in psf

Felt bad

[median nest]

read through the faq and gonna wathc the vid now. But maintaining flawless form and going into crackshot seems to be the thing

[cinder haven]

He did like 11m though

[glass mortar]

Yes

[frail veldt]

Sheeeeesh

[cinder haven]

Try to not waste the escalating blades stacks, don’t vanish with ks available, make sure you have adrenaline rush up when your vanish

[slate forge]

Beat a mm hunter entire first part of halls and even first boss then the pack after first boss they did 50 million sustained

[cinder haven]

I had a so so key too

[keen belfry]

tob during opener last night i found myself sitting on first vanish if i had bad opener, to make sure my first vanish was with gs

i forgot if that was the play or not

[cinder haven]

Yeah fb never vanishes without gs unless you risk dropping adr

[keen belfry]

like this exact scenario

ok good

here i just did ks into finishers then vanish when gs up

[cinder haven]

Technically you can if gs is really far

[gaunt phoenix]

You can send vanish if GS is lightyears away. It's fine

[cinder haven]

Like 45 sec far or something

[keen belfry]

ok

ty

[cinder haven]

Idk what number i used

[gaunt phoenix]

I kind of like to vanish on RP+Supercharger regardless of this coin shit

[keen belfry]

that makes sense

id try to always line up sc if i had to do a non vanish coin

non coin vanish

[cinder haven]

Many magic numbers in my experimental apl rn

[gaunt phoenix]

I failed you all a bit. Fatebound was oversimming by 2% ish

[random stirrup]

The 6 mil dream dead and buried

Gg

[gaunt phoenix]

[keen belfry]

am i dumb for not knowing you could press KIR with no buffs

[gaunt phoenix]

no. i've done it tho

[keen belfry]

this was last night

[cinder haven]

Me too

[keen belfry]

first time its ever happened

[cinder haven]

Many times

When you are focused on something else and only see the colours not numbers

[keen belfry]

yeah i was starting at knockback timer here if i recall

[gaunt phoenix]

pretty hard to think of a worse mistake

[keen belfry]

but i think thats the first time ive ever kir'd 0 buff

ive kir'd 1 buff, ive accidentally rtb into kir, but never this

[cinder haven]

Probably very uncommon

More common to kir one or two less buffs than you intended

[gaunt phoenix]

I seem to RTB > KIR instead of KIR > RTB at least once a key

I'm getting old

[keen belfry]

once a key? sounds washed solo

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

I mean it's happening in other games too

[keen belfry]

hey grandpa, atleast you can still apl outside of game

[gaunt phoenix]

I thought I hit something but i didnt

I'm actually losing it

[glass mortar]

Ok but have u ever pressed kir with 0.5s on ur buffs remaining, it goes on cd, and ur buffs expire

I swear sometimes there's a desync

[keen belfry]

i aint ever seen that before

[glass mortar]

From the tracker and actual buffs

[random stirrup]

It’s ok I did this once every 3-5 keys or so

[gaunt phoenix]

that's some ping issue

[random stirrup]

Happens to the best of us

[glass mortar]

Maybe was just actually lagging tho

[gaunt phoenix]

i accidentally did an OCE key

and nah

never again

[glass mortar]

What really gets me is when I press kir and assume it's gone off then see my buffs start to expire because for some reason the input got dropped

[random stirrup]

ya brutal on outlaw

[glass mortar]

Happens to me once a raid tbh

See the key light up like its been pressed and everything

But it just doesn't go off

[gaunt phoenix]

You legit need to play ho

[keen belfry]

sounds like old man

[gaunt phoenix]

Kir with your setup sounds like suffering

[cinder haven]

Loktark had a theory that sqw doesn’t work on low energy

[glass mortar]

Nah you know what I mean about seeing ur keys toggle on ur bar if u watch them while hitting buttons right

There's zero reason an ogcd should ever be able to light up but not go off

[rapid grail]

Sub is the hardest spec of rogue and game rn or outlaw is the hardest?

[cinder haven]

Which makes laggy outlaw unplayable more or less

[glass mortar]

It is its why I quit raiding

[keen belfry]

guys, im gm of my guild, on lootcouncil, but excluded from netherprism/forge cause i play outlaw (i killed forge as sub, going to kill last 2 as sub)

do i need to disband my guild

[random stirrup]

sub maybe harder to start with if you don’t know how to think about cds, outlaw skillcap higher

[gaunt phoenix]

idk, sub is cooldown management and punished for not maximizing certain windows, outlaw is just constantly zooming

hard for different reasons

[rapid grail]

Ah kk

[cinder haven]

Only assa is easy

And only in st

[gaunt phoenix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[rapid grail]

i think outlaw with that WA dfor rerolling is ez rn that WA doing the job for us easy xD

[rapid grail]

Loool

[keen belfry]

someone tell him

[cinder haven]

Nah

[keen belfry]

nvm nvm

[rapid grail]

Oh did i miss something? XD

[gaunt phoenix]

That there probably is no weakaura that captures all the roll conditions perfectly

[rapid grail]

i didnt played this spec like 1 season

[craggy quiver]

Sub is harder

For me xd

[keen belfry]

if its the WA im thinking of:
its very average at best
theres other cringe stuff not related to RTB (trickster)

[rapid grail]

Its true i mean for that ppl who just start outlaw and dont dont know what buffs are good and when too reroll its such a good job and good work from the creator of that WA

[keen belfry]

unseen blade is actually such a mess

everytime i actually think about uunseen blade i think wow this thing sucks

[cinder haven]

Escalating blade is worse imo

[keen belfry]

i lump all those together

[rapid grail]

Me too xD i just played rogue cuz of outlaw and played it from df season 2 till now and this season i decided too play sub and its little bit tricky ans hard

[keen belfry]

the way we play around coup is piss

[cinder haven]

But it’s so easy to fix if they want

[topaz spoke]

Looking at Fractillus WCL . I thought it would be more than 2%.😭

[rapid grail]

i sae some chat about coup bar idk what is that but ppl said its help alot with it

[cinder haven]

Weakaura helps yes

But you have to jump so many hoops

To not waste EB stacks

When they could just let us keep building EB even coup is available

[craggy quiver]

It's ok 8 more hours till another class tuning

Believe tm

[cinder haven]

Best way imo would be if you auto consume the EB stacks at 4 and they are replaced by a buff with two stacks that allow coup

[craggy quiver]

Gotta keep topic #1 alive

[keen belfry]

just let us build a coup while having a coup

[cinder haven]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying too

[keen belfry]

would go far

and gs energy reduciton

[gaunt phoenix]

but what if you coup

and then get EB4 before spending the second coup

[keen belfry]

skill gap

[cinder haven]

Then you messed up

Or you can get more stacks on the buff?

[gaunt phoenix]

Should it let you coup > ss > ss > coup > coup > coup

[keen belfry]

yeah

down

[cinder haven]

Could be that we game it

If that’s possible

[keen belfry]

making coup impossible to track while also making you waste unseen blade stacks is gg

[cinder haven]

Build to 4 coups

[gaunt phoenix]

Coup coup coup coup coup

[cinder haven]

The vanish

[keen belfry]

coup!!!

[cinder haven]

30 coup into vanish

Netherprism

Big pull bam

Probably wouldn’t even be broken

FF duration would be the cap anyway

But were share the tree with sub also

So they probably need to be a bit careful at least

[random stirrup]

4x coup with netherprism for outlaw
4x coup with netherprism for sub

[gaunt phoenix]

[random stirrup]

Just buff the gs debuff to 40%

Prio damage returns

[slate forge]

Please reduce the energy though shit feels terrible

[proven ocean]

its already 100 u want it to be 50?

what the helly

[gaunt phoenix]

Energy cost of gs

[proven ocean]

guys outlaw is fine

who the helly wants it buffed

??

its closer to the tank than the dps i think thats fair no cappy

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[safe pasture]

we just need fury reduced so i can still cope that its cause im target capped'

[proven ocean]

why not black chinchompa

wtf

[safe pasture]

red bussin

[abstract frost]

he was carrying them last season. Its time for them to repay the favor

let zac kick back and relax

😎

[proven ocean]

...

[safe pasture]

i got gold pet doe

[proven ocean]

nice

now come boost me radiant yama bozo

[muted crest]

Also this is the otpimal comp for outlaw

Full meelee...

[abstract frost]

@proven ocean You coming back to WoW?

Assa needs you bro

[proven ocean]

assa is long gone

beyond help

maybe another time

[abstract frost]

tbh all three rogue specs are gone

rogue in the gutter this season

[proven ocean]

yea

its just way too bad to play with

[abstract frost]

my fdk is 710 and its cranking

[proven ocean]

people cope about sub its crazy

when it sucks pure balls

[abstract frost]

considering just playing fdk

[proven ocean]

all the sub copers

i legit dont see any of them rn

"BRO ZEROSS SUB IS OP TRUST ME BRO ITS META CUH"

ye sure buddy

legit 0 sub rogues rn

[abstract frost]

im a sub rogue

😮

its kinda meh though

[proven ocean]

ye rogue mains dont count

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/dies-cat-dead-died-gif-13827091

[abstract frost]

i only do damage with prism

im a slave to spymasters

smh

[cinder haven]

Isn’t this every season?

[glass mortar]

Why don't rogue mains count

Nobody ever fotm this class

When sin is giga mega hyper op still nobody plays rogur

[cinder haven]

Omg sub so good (w1)

Omg didn’t scale this season either

[glass mortar]

If ur just going off non rogue mains rogue always sucks tbh

[abstract frost]

why play rogue when ams breath exists

[bright crane]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/pirates-day-2025-new-transmog-hat-for-a-limited-time-378553

pirates day coming?? Ol buffs inc??

https://tenor.com/view/oakdice-runescape-gif-18004007

[gaunt phoenix]

i want that purple parrot in the trading post again

[short heath]

Ngl rogue feels decent. Not great not terrible. If we exclude the bugs of course

[bright crane]

Cool your jets there Goldilocks

[proven ocean]

?

because half the rogues arent playing rogue because its bad

lol

and then the other half shows up "YEA YEA I PLAY SUB THO XD"

[glass mortar]

How do u count when a spec is good if ur not using rogue mains tho, this class is literally never fotm. Even when sin was at its peak only rogue players played it

Entire class is such a mess other class players don't even wanna touch it

[proven ocean]

?

i dont think u understand what im talking about

[short heath]

Most rogues rn are assa. People got baited at the start thinking it would be bis

[proven ocean]

and ur missing half the conversation we had few weeks ago when everyone was coping on sub being absolutely busted meta

[glass mortar]

I dont think u understand what I was saying but its ok

[red zinc]

I mean they didnt get baited

[proven ocean]

nah weran

[red zinc]

it was bis and then they stealth bug nerfed it

[proven ocean]

ur just here out of context everytime

its ok tho

im used to it

[glass mortar]

Definitly out of context

[proven ocean]

you and mewo lately

are giga cooked

ngl

[glass mortar]

It's always the other guy talking to u thats gigacooked that is true