outlaw

[vivid vessel]

Cause I have belt and neck on alt

[proven ocean]

Ah cuz of alt

Right

[vivid vessel]

Idk like

I got it one increase after 719.69

So more than that

[proven ocean]

Ye realistically i have same gear as you atm

I just didnt buy boe’s yet

[radiant vessel]

there is no way to get the upgraded nightfall OH if you aren't lucky from chest right?

[verbal herald]

720 avg equipped

Which is weird

or well it should, so it's weird to get it with 719 something

[vivid vessel]

Well

It's cause the in-game Ilvl thing

Doesn't have .x stuffs

So I assume it just work so that when you see 720 you get the achiev

Idk how the rounding is tho

Cause at 719.69 I didn't have it yet

If the rounding was a real math rounding I should have gotten it then

[proven ocean]

Nah its just all items on x ilvl

Always been like that ye

I just dont remember the number exactly

I dont play anyways so idc

I think its max ilvl on all items

On ur warband

So if u have 100 alts technically u can get the achievement week 1 or someshit i guess

Unless it has some weird mechanics behind it

[vivid vessel]

That's not true

Also its per character 100%

I haven't upgraded belt on any char yet

And I have a 707 neck on the main

And got the achiev

My highest boots are 710

Across all chars

It's just avg ilvl of one character

100%

[strong halo]

How does alts make your upgrade cheaper?

[vivid vessel]

Once you have the achievement

Upgrades on alts are cheaper if you have an item higher ilvl on a char already

Except you can upgrade the items on alt

Then spend Only 10 on main

Like I will be able to do that for neck and belt on my main

[strong halo]

Ohhhhhhh but you essentially sacrifice spots on alts to benefit main

[vivid vessel]

Cause imma upgrade bekt and neck on alt first

Well ye

Fuck the alts tho

Who cares

[cinder haven]

I need casualaddicts spotify playlist

[wintry solar]

Are you sure?

It's just 10 hours of this

https://youtu.be/fTDCeRK3Wnk

[daring oxide]

lol

[cinder haven]

I haven’t watched him in a bit but he usually has good stuff when i do

[daring oxide]

[cinder haven]

maybe he lost his way

I dug up one of my own instead with a perfect circle and stuff like that

It’ll have to do for now

Oh The Damned Things are in here too, nice

[wintry solar]

Me when there's an ant infestation and they got into my box of cookies

[strong cargo]

With the weekly quest you have a token to buy it from the npc at 678, so it's 1 time for 678, and do it every week if you want to have a chance for 691 from chest

[radiant vessel]

Yeah thought so

Just dogshit luck the 691 ain’t dropping

Fucked

[sacred rune]

!loot

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[junior coral]

Blizz has to change rogue kick to “head shot” instead of kicking them in the balls we just shot them in the head to stop cast lmao

Playing alts with ranged kicks is so op compared to this shit, why they do us so dirty

[spare dome]

yeah unironically they could give that to outlaw

[warm sapphire]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[cinder haven]

Or just give us acro back

[junior coral]

Forreal dude

[cinder haven]

It was fine with melee range kick with acro

[junior coral]

I miss acro so much, one of the biggest fumbles

Makes all these circles melee has to deal with much better

[cinder haven]

Maybe they make us mid range in midnight

Maybe not

Replace SS with some dagger throw thing?

Probably not gonna happen

[red zinc]

would be intriguing

[junior coral]

Or just a move when you have to be outta range, like a cannon that does aoe dmg or some shit lmao

Is just love to see more pirate shit… give me cannons, parrot, something. Bring back acro, less stealth needed

Let me blastttttt

[cinder haven]

I don’t expect us to become midrange and I don’t expect us to get acro back either

[junior coral]

Same lol

They gonna make our range even shorter lmao

[wintry solar]

I expect our current issues to be replaced with brand new ones

[cinder haven]

Even though acro makes perfect sense on a spec with high uptime requirements

[red zinc]

Dont really care about all that they should just consider addressing the glaring issues with easy fixes

[vivid vessel]

Made too much sense

[red zinc]

for once

[vivid vessel]

But some higher up thoughts they should make every spec the same

[red zinc]

(except ret pala)

[junior coral]

Was just gonna say ret pally lol

[cinder haven]

Yeah I don’t think it was a rogue dev decision

[junior coral]

The fuckkkk

[red zinc]

“rogue dev” 🥀

Rogue development getting subcontracted to the interns since s3 DF

[wintry solar]

I've been thinking

[cinder haven]

Oh no

[junior coral]

S3 DF slapped

For outlaw

[wintry solar]

They mentioned "expansion level changes" in the context of outlaw

And I think the standard for "expansion level changes" has moved recently

[cinder haven]

I guess that means major changes

[wintry solar]

Yeah but there's a threshold for how big a change is and I think it moved

[cinder haven]

Idk if what we got for TWW qualifies

Is anything more than tuning or bugfixes expansion level changes then?

[junior coral]

It just feels bad with KS, UB, Coup… using full CP for KS, then have to use a finisher, then Ss,Ss coup builder coop to get back to your vanish window is trash

[pearl topaz]

is araz FB or trickster now

[cinder haven]

Trickster todo list out of stealth is a bit hefty yeah

[pearl topaz]

im guessing FB due to high damage

[wintry solar]

Idk, but for some reason my brain is equating qol fixes to specs mean expansion level changes. Which may be because of how Outlaw was neglected in TWW.

[red zinc]

No cause hunter got a sizeable rework in a patch

[wintry solar]

That's true

[red zinc]

shit isnt logical they just make up stuff when it suits them

[junior coral]

They want less addons but then make it so we need a script to track roll the bones, and UB ….

[red zinc]

“oh yeah we couldnt finish rogue rework cause it felt like an expansion level change” headass

[cinder haven]

Hunter yes, but we’re not hunters are we?

[wintry solar]

It should be consistent amongst all classes

[lucid sparrow]

is the DISC belt ass for outlaw? would it be better to replace it with crit/vers hero belt?

curious if thats smth everyone is doing cuz my sims is saying every hero track belt almost is an upgrade

[cinder haven]

Nah it’s good

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[cinder haven]

Critical chain is good

But myth track belt is better

[lucid sparrow]

crit chain over charged bolt?

[cinder haven]

Yes

[lucid sparrow]

okay, thank you

[vivid vessel]

It's bad compared to other specs

As outlaw I can replace it

[cinder haven]

True

[vivid vessel]

Not with the other specs

[cinder haven]

But they nerf it soon

[vivid vessel]

But well it's equivalent to like

A 714 belt

[hasty warren]

there's soon a belt nerf no ?

[wintry solar]

Yes

[red zinc]

I dont get why that wasnt just patched in on weekly reset

Like give people a few days to get a belt sure

[wintry solar]

Dude

[red zinc]

But posting it 5 weeks early

[wintry solar]

Their tuning cadence has been ass this expac

Where tuning???

[sacred rune]

they did less tuning this xpac

[cinder haven]

They did tune, just not rogue

[sacred rune]

it to me feels like they found out that overall player satisfaction is not that diffrent with more tuning

means, you in general will see less

[cinder haven]

Unless we make wowhead posts

[sacred rune]

i think outrage in general helps

but i don't think its a good tool

just leads to abuse, e.g. why we have the memes around "shut your server down"

[vivid vessel]

Ye and when you have 0 outrage you get rogue in the war within

Not a single dev working on the class

For an entire expac

Because there is always a next patch so you can wait till then

But then it never comes

[agile orchid]

come on, we had someone work on the KS rework

[vivid vessel]

And we ended the expac with the same (arguably worse for some) dogshit hero talents than at the start

[vivid vessel]

This is probably the best example

Cause I would have wanted to do something worse than the rework they did

I wouldn't have managed

Truly take talent

[agile orchid]

I think they simply don't care much about damage profiles and advanced stuff like that

they just want to make cool looking abilities

[wintry solar]

I'm pretty sure people on the forums asked for this exact KS but I could be wrong.

[vivid vessel]

• longest channel time in the game on outlaw, the fast paced spec btw
• nuked trickster and didn't fix anything
• is trickster main driver but interact counter intuitively with trickster
• nuked outlaw damage profile for no reason
• confusing visual that doesn't match what the ability does

[vivid vessel]

Ok but the concept is fine

But then the execution is terrible

[wintry solar]

Yeah it's totally fine. The execution sucks

[vivid vessel]

Nothing is working as it should

Like I wouldn't care if the cast was slightly shorter, trickster was still normally fonctionning, and it wasn't rng Targeting

And that's like

Not even hard to do

[agile orchid]

I did expect them to rework KS into this random gunfire around your character ability

[wintry solar]

Frankly I'd be okay just without random targeting but that's just me

[agile orchid]

but I did not expect them to make it into a channel and for it to target one random target

I thought they would just copy paste reaper's ult from overwatch

[vivid vessel]

Forgot to add you can't kick or cc during it, which they recognize is an issue btw since they gave warrior a talent to be able to do these things during bladestorm

[spare dome]

i'd prefer miss fortune's ult

[vivid vessel]

Also 20% slow

[agile orchid]

I think hunter has that

[vivid vessel]

For whatever reason

Like the thing should legit move speed your ass and have 40 yard range

And you run around gun blazing

But no

Melee range and slowed

[wintry solar]

What a weird addition. Half the time I can't even tell I'm slowed.

[vivid vessel]

??

[wintry solar]

!!

[agile orchid]

I kinda dread what's coming in midnight

[spare dome]

I dont know how much range does KS have

[wintry solar]

The movement speed trinket as a CD for SURE

/ s

[vivid vessel]

Melee +2

Which is ridiculously low

For a gun ability

[hasty warren]

real

buff outalw

[wintry solar]

Outalw

[wintry solar]

Is it me or does it feel like every CD outlaw has, has its own drawback?

KS, adr, Gs

Am I missing something?

Br

[agile orchid]

what is the drawback of AR and GS

[wintry solar]

Haste cap and target locked

[agile orchid]

imo GS should just be removed

it's such a boring ass ability

[inland acorn]

Also energy cost for off gcd like gs, can sometime nuke your energy

[red zinc]

brave opinion

[wintry solar]

I think it's got potential tbh

[inland acorn]

I'm still wondering, how did we go from:
How to make outlaw like haste more ?
To having to pay tax to get 0.8 gcd which we had built-in since i can remember

[agile orchid]

what potential

oh wow a target has increased damage

from my abilities

and it's an off the gcd button

you barely think about it

[wintry solar]

To make it a player buff with charges and on gcd

[vivid vessel]

Moving away from the debuff part and focusing on the cp gen part

[inland acorn]

So basically

Shadow dance from sub

[vivid vessel]

Cause off GCD cp gen is kinda insane fun on outlaw

[agile orchid]

they could have made KS scale more aggresively with haste

[inland acorn]

They could have like you know...

Make it actually gives us nice energy outside adr...

[indigo token]

yknow what would be cool

if ghostly strike got you more bte resets

[hasty warren]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1nipxsk/why_is_there_a_tank_shortage_new_tank_brain_when/

[inland acorn]

I swear on God rn

Everytime i cast GS with 7cps during vanish

[hasty warren]

because blizz don"t want us to be good ig

[inland acorn]

My bte always fails ace proc

[wintry solar]

1fth sometimes makes me wonder why I even bother talenting into it ngl

[inland acorn]

1fth is dogass

[indigo token]

fth should be baseline

[inland acorn]

Absolute worst feeling, when you dont roll broadside

[wintry solar]

No cp gen from ps, none from ace

God just kill me now

[indigo token]

its a standard outlaw talent that feels awesome to do

idk why its a 2 point talent so far down the tree

[wintry solar]

To gatekeep arguably one of the worst talents in the tree

[inland acorn]

ace fails to proc
press PS without broadside
you are at 4 cp

[indigo token]

LIKE

[inland acorn]

[indigo token]

jesus christ

[vivid vessel]

Fth should be 2 fth but with 3 charges

[hasty warren]

remember when Restless blade was not baseline ?

[indigo token]

and people say the druid tree is bad

[vivid vessel]

Instead of 2

Like the 1 fth gameplay decision is better

[indigo token]

aint no way

was it not??

[vivid vessel]

Being able to hold 3 instead of 2 is a massive difference

[wintry solar]

At one point yeah

[hasty warren]

not during DF

maybe at the end

[wintry solar]

For a bit it was a rtb buff

[hasty warren]

can't remember

[hasty warren]

? realy ?

[wintry solar]

Yeah in legion alpha I think

[indigo token]

dude

wtf

[wintry solar]

It was very brief and I don't think it ever hit live

For obv reasons

[indigo token]

i mean

we had ks in its unaltered form

[wintry solar]

Yeah but you're locking a core spec mechanic behind an rng buff

[indigo token]

thats a few specs i think

[hasty warren]

when cheat death baseline ?

[wintry solar]

Tomorrow

[hasty warren]

why fire mage have it and not us

[indigo token]

yep

ill break into the blizzard campus

and put out those notes

[red zinc]

Elu/cheat tradeoff is more than fine

[wintry solar]

No way that's true

[indigo token]

yeah

cauterize

[wintry solar]

That's wild

I didn't know that was baseline

[vivid vessel]

Tbf

Cheat death is so shit

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[vivid vessel]

I don't even wanna play with it anymore

[red zinc]

elus (for outlaw) is probably the single most broken defensive node in the game

[vivid vessel]

Cant count the amount of times I died trough cheat

Cause you take 2 tick of damage

Or dot

Or whatever the fuck

Worse cheat in the game for sure

[inland acorn]

Or mechanics ignore it like king salad

[red zinc]

Lost to flavor

[strong halo]

Lmao cauterize works to prevent double tick too

[red zinc]

[hasty warren]

ngl cheat saved my life so much times

still I pref elu because otherwise our def is realt trash

I still can't understand why is feint costing 25 energy

and not like 15 or 10

[indigo token]

tbf

its a defensive we can talent into cdr for

its busted

[hasty warren]

u mean we have no cd on it ?

[indigo token]

wdym

[hasty warren]

I don't get ur sentence sry

[cinder haven]

2 charges 15 sec recharge, plus cdr

[indigo token]

yeah

its pretty busted

[cinder haven]

Also on top of the 20% DR from vers

[agile orchid]

because it's off the gcd and you can use it whenever you want

[hasty warren]

k but without elu it's not that strong and if u're low enrgy u literaly can't use it

so many times I died because low variance shit no energy

[agile orchid]

you also have evasion and cloak

[hasty warren]

evasion is usefull 1 time in the run

and cloak is 2 min cd

[agile orchid]

elusiviness gives DR to evasion, does it not

[torpid heath]

20% dr vers is only because we scale bad on mastery xD

[hasty warren]

y

[torpid heath]

Cant count that as a def

[hasty warren]

but without this point the cd is not that good

[agile orchid]

it's not

[hasty warren]

my point is that wht we have to chose between cheat death (and no good def) or no cheat but good defs

when we just can having cheat baseline

like fire does

[agile orchid]

streamer healers will lose their minds again

about muh defensive bloat

[gaunt wraith]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[hasty warren]

am I the only one having laggs/freezes for no reason today ?

[zinc briar]

So.. we wont get that st dmg buff never?

[gaunt phoenix]

prolly not

[zinc briar]

Ill try to play Hunter for Nexus king and Dim then..

[agile orchid]

all we can do is wait and see

[zinc briar]

Subt is boring af

Being afk between CD Windows...

[agile orchid]

believe it or not it used to be worse

[hasty warren]

idk how there's ppl only playing sub

[agile orchid]

sub is fun to play wdym

executing a flag window feels great

[robust berry]

Just got back to s3 and even though my ilvl is 671 smth with full of quest greens, when I get to m2+ I pull like 1m dps with kir even on cleave.
Thats, kindof very low still isn't it

[gaunt phoenix]

it is, but you need tier and haste to have the momentum to maintain adrenaline rush

Without adr you do nothing

[spare dome]

peak cooldown

John Blizzard outdid himself on this one

[robust berry]

I do have 19% haste

Or 20

What should be AR uptime

[hasty warren]

90%

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean more than that. but not without tier

[robust berry]

Oh wow.

Okay I will gear up more. And maybe get more guides on KIR. But is there any rogue content creators that do guides and stuff out there.

[thorny zinc]

best resource prob this discord or wowhead

[torpid heath]

xD

[gaunt phoenix]

if there are video guides, i don't really know them

[wintry solar]

I've been in the pvp game so long I forget wowhead is good for pve

I just go to the class discord

Cut out the middleman

[thorny zinc]

[wintry solar]

Poco gets it

[torpid heath]

i thought it was solo writing outlaw guide

[wintry solar]

Solo in PAIN writing that guide

[torpid heath]

xD

[wintry solar]

Because you said writhing

And not writing

[torpid heath]

english is not my first language

i'm from Zac's place

[wintry solar]

It's okay, just lighthearted fun

In the channel of the best spec in the game

[random stirrup]

I do enjoy referring to France as zac’s place

[torpid fiber]

I do think there's potential for a good outlaw video guide, but also I think it'd take a lot of effort and probably a decent bit of video editing skills

[radiant vessel]

I’m stuck using sacbrood cos of the haste should it be a focus to get it elsewhere an use any other trinkets? All sims keep telling me to use it but I thought sac was kinda shit

[torpid heath]

Zac is the goat right

[wintry solar]

Depends on who you ask

My goat is Tob

[torpid heath]

haste fiber?

[red zinc]

zac is not the goat

[gaunt phoenix]

sac is fine

[red zinc]

Needs more time

[wintry solar]

Who's your goat

[radiant vessel]

Sims was telling me crit lol but I ain’t got great trinkets no raid ones on hero

No myth from vault

3 weeks of sockets

[torpid heath]

i'm using haste fiber to balance stats

[red zinc]

There aint really one

for outlaw m+ weve had a different guy every xpac it feels like

[torpid heath]

Raid wise

[red zinc]

How can there be a raid goat when outlaw is never good in raid

[wintry solar]

Who's your favorite?

[slate forge]

Ryu the goat

[red zinc]

gotta say zac cause otherwise he won’t talk to me anymore

But ramfam the real goat

[wintry solar]

Mine goes Tob, Solo, Wox, Ramfam, and ForeverGuy in that order

And then Zac

[red zinc]

@desert tendon i was looking at s3 rankings for fun

[random stirrup]

kinda crazy to disrespect awang like that no

[red zinc]

didnt know we were .3 apart

shits crazy

[wintry solar]

Ryu honorable mention

[wintry solar]

Me?

[random stirrup]

zac the awang of eu don’t forget

[wintry solar]

Troo

[random stirrup]

ye

[red zinc]

awang aint ever did nothing

[wintry solar]

Well awang was mean to me one time and it made me sad

[red zinc]

hes the goated role player of outlaw

sixth man of the year

[wintry solar]

He's after Zac at 7th

And then Zeross

At 8th

[red zinc]

zeross is like the karl malone of outlaw

[wintry solar]

9th and 10th are open

Oh dude

Vai for sure at 9

What a guy

[red zinc]

how do i get a hold of 2 flightstones real quick

[wintry solar]

Some quests reward them

[red zinc]

wait i do radiant echo

big

[wintry solar]

What about huge?

[red zinc]

of large proportion

[wintry solar]

Fantastic

[red zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/fantastic-mr-fantastic-invisible-woman-human-torch-the-thing-gif-6293013181369359279

[wintry solar]

Frontier is my 10th

[wintry solar]

This guy...

[forest bloom]

Is there a WA for combo points which Highlights If iam at > 5/6 points?

[honest sparrow]

some class packs do have that you could rip it out of one of them

[proven ocean]

It was meta in s 1 DF

And i destroyed zac that season cuz i played

[red zinc]

was good on every boss but rasza right

[proven ocean]

I did same shield dmg as sub rogues on rasza

Or close to it

It wasn’t that bad

But ye it was worse than sub abit

[red zinc]

think i also played sub on dathea for whatever reason

didnt have enough add damage or something

[proven ocean]

Outlaw was good there too

Sub is also good on demand dmg so thats also not wrong to play

Especially for prog

[red zinc]

ye we just had dogwater damage on those adds so i went sub with boon

full send on those adds

[indigo token]

wasnt broodkeeper the first world first outlaw ever had

[proven ocean]

No it was played sub wasnt it

Dathea was outlaw

And kurog

Im pretty sure outlaw was better on brood too

[proven ocean]

Dont think anyone played it to it’s full potential that season

[red zinc]

this was world first brood

[proven ocean]

In rwf

[proven ocean]

Ah ye assa was strong early season

Forgot about that

[desert tendon]

Get own bozo i didnt play for the Last 2 mônth also get anihilated

[glass mortar]

it was a classic case of "all 3 rogue specs good on release of season, nerf sin 5 times (and outlaw twice)"

then sub just ended up king because it was always good and didnt eat any nerfs

[red zinc]

outlaw clear rate on +15s was too high

CLASSICC

[vivid vessel]

Wtff

3 rogues ..

That's crazy

Which that was me fr

[quaint mauve]

i didn’t do a single key yesterday

oh how i have fallen

i blame this on mewo

wanting to do hard mode taz over 17 gambit

[warm sapphire]

Any good RTB WAs that make the reroll and extend logic easier?

This one seems wrong: https://wago.io/Pd53s_NPU

[gaunt phoenix]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
(Assuming season 3 tier and Supercharger)

• Roll if you have 0 or 1 buffs.
• Roll if you have 2 buffs and Loaded Dice is active.
• Roll once asap after pressing KIR, as your buffs don't get rolled away. Use this weakaura to see when your buffs don't get rolled away (yellow border).
• After the KIR roll, continue to watch the weakaura as buffs tick down. As your buffs expire you may hit a point where your remaining buffs are yellow and you can roll again.

[proven ocean]

Omgomg.. ur alive

zac not dead!

[gaunt phoenix]

you pretty much just have to watch this weakaura that tells you when your buffs are yellow etc. afaik there is no edit that makes it literally tell you when to roll like hekili

[proven ocean]

Hi solo

[gaunt phoenix]

helo

[proven ocean]

helo

Idk what this gif is but

Ah ye face id cat

[lucid sandal]

How do you guys practice for raid

Like mythic

[proven ocean]

By progressing the boss?

XD

[warm sapphire]

That's fine, thanks man ❤️

[glass mortar]

regular raid fights or m+ bosses

[lucid sandal]

No but I wasn't

[proven ocean]

If u mean to be good on outlaw

For raid

U just spam m+

But learning the raid u learn by raiding

Thats why mythic bosses take a shit ton of pulls

[torpid fiber]

Maybe I should make that edit sometime if it's remotely viable

[lucid sandal]

Thing is I was on bosses yesterday that I wasn't on during prog

And I did kinda really bad

Like SH and Araz

And it's like

I just get here and have a terrible time

[grim spear]

super lucky

[proven ocean]

What the helly

[slate forge]

Now we’re not getting buffs gg

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel super skilled!

No cappy copy cop cuh sheeesh

[red zinc]

wtf he moving the dot like crazy

[grim spear]

[wintry solar]

Zeross do you want to be in my nightmare blunt rotation cake?

[proven ocean]

No clue what that is

Also who are u

Ag

Ah

Popo guy

[slate forge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/44?boss=3133&dataset=100#

[wintry solar]

It's like a hear me out but different

[slate forge]

It’s over now

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel big dps!

[proven ocean]

What

It soudned like ur gonna add my name to ur hekili rotation

Or something

[wintry solar]

Nah

Dw about it big dog, I'll get someone else

[quaint mauve]

bro this is day 3 of me missing out on gold bc of school

i might drop out

become a full time key bricker

need to afford my t3 naxx somehow

[copper radish]

Can’t even imagine whose in that group 💀

[copper radish]

Bet that dude does less dmg than an outlaw boasting like that 😭

[quaint mauve]

geniunely tell me how

[wintry solar]

Zeross is the only one I asked because he's the only one on the cake I like

Not a real cake. A cake jpeg

[grim spear]

I dont know

just push buttons as usual

[vivid vessel]

Why you hiding the name cuh

[dense bolt]

Antenna catch rate on dimmy holy schmokes

[inland acorn]

Imagine having antenna

[vivid vessel]

Wtf I'm in the screenshot

[hasty warren]

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble I think the spec doesn't matter, one kill will be already included as long as the boss is included

The wcl discord couldn't really answer me but I think this answer my question

[proven ocean]

not me

[vivid vessel]

Ross

[proven ocean]

zac

[vivid vessel]

Miss you cuh

[hasty warren]

uwu

[proven ocean]

[wintry solar]

I had too much caffeine

What do?

[radiant vessel]

are sims a bait on the delve belt or what i thought we'd trade it out for a hero but it still sims better

[keen belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/can-newton-gif-25797430

[civic zephyr]

zac's 13 HOA - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/A3cFXb71yvRHVgCD?fight=2&type=damage-done&source=4 -// my 15 HOA https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/t1jcRQHBb3pDKNzd?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=133 - theres an 8 min difference in the dungeon, he has less casts, yet does more damage. anyone able figure out what the difference is? Why can i have more casts and less damage for example on blade flurry... im also almost 20 CPM lower than him too. IM LOST

[vivid vessel]

I did a 13 hoa

That's crazy

[radiant vessel]

[gaunt phoenix]

he has 4 ilvls on you and monk debuff

that's 9% dmg

at least'

[west ridge]

monk debuff is massive for outlaw

its as good or better than bshout

[civic zephyr]

ok but what about the 20 CPM difference, i feel like im pressing my GCDs as fast as i can

[vivid vessel]

He has war tho

[civic zephyr]

its like every dungeon

[vivid vessel]

War is better than monk

Why you guys yapping

Big yappers

[west ridge]

idk man im at work

let me yap

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[vivid vessel]

But ye I have 20 cpm more

So I don't have less cast

Idk

Just press more buttons right

[hasty warren]

drink water

[civic zephyr]

ive looked at a ton of zac logs - he gets like around 88 cpm every dungeon and i am like low 70s

[vivid vessel]

Keeping uptime

Not thinking about what to press

Better to press wrong than not press

[random stirrup]

[glass mortar]

well 70 cpm is very low, lower then consistent combat so its possible his group is chaining better then urs?

or maybe ur waiting to open for ur tank to gather stuff? idk how u get down to 70 cpm tho

that must be due to out of combat downtimes

[civic zephyr]

ITS EVERY DUNGEON OF MINE, i run with the same tank.... so maybe i try pugging a bit?

[glass mortar]

i doubt ur gunna find random pug tanks that chain more efficiently then a tank u can talk to

[civic zephyr]

this is helpful in itself btw, ty

[proven ocean]

DF cpm with er bug went crazy

u can see us just casting something all the time because of it

[glass mortar]

i mean that cpm on wcl is a fake stat

[proven ocean]

well its fake yea

lots of rng is involved too in there

[glass mortar]

but yea ud be holding 85 apm the whole dungeon

since u had something to cast out of combat

[keen belfry]

Are your raid logs higher cpm

[civic zephyr]

no not exactly - here is a heroic aoe fight https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RaGvPywTmfgcMYz1?fight=19&type=casts 76 CPM trickster

[dim falcon]

do you use Coup de Grace with 6+ CP or just send it in even you dont have any CP ?

[gaunt phoenix]

you build cps usually but you send it early if you have to press ss

[civic zephyr]

i send it twice at low majority of the time id say

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel fellow ship is kinda ass or is it just me

looks like runescape 3 but wow combined @glass mortar

[wintry solar]

Smart man

Or woman

[proven ocean]

like no way that game succeeds unless its a mobile game

cuz the grapphics look like a mobile game graphics

[glass mortar]

i mean the graphical look is a bit rough but it doesnt play like a mobile game

[proven ocean]

well it doesnt but

[glass mortar]

and every person i know that plays it is totally in love with it

[proven ocean]

my point was graphics

not gameplay

[glass mortar]

and r ready to quit wow m+ as soon as its fully released

[proven ocean]

quit wow

thats pure cope

[glass mortar]

nah just m+

[proven ocean]

i dont think any mmo has a chance to defeat wow

except the riot mmo which they're working for years

which i never heard about recently

lmao

must've been a cancelled project

[dim falcon]

So lets say I have 5 CP and the first Coup and I would need SS to get more points I just send it in and if I dont have a Pistolshot proc I send in the next one? From the Set bonus?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[dim falcon]

so the rule says if coup is up you dont Press SS .. ? okay

[gaunt phoenix]

Because ss can proc unseen blade twice at any moment

if this happens during coup it's wasted

[dim falcon]

ah , thank you : )

[gaunt phoenix]

But sometimes you still have to ss in stealth or if you have to killing spree

[dim falcon]

yea after Killing spree its the highest prio builder because if the 2 Unseen Blade procs (as the guide says)

[gaunt phoenix]

well i mean like

if coup is ready

but ks is also ready

then

you have to build to ks

even if ss may overcap blades

[random stirrup]

I had hope but most of it is gone

The fundamentals of the game are good, it’s a good m+ clone. Unfortunately the classes just don’t have nearly the depth that wow does

Unlucky

[glass mortar]

i mean idk how fare an expectation that is wow has been iterating on pretty much the same base of classes for like 20 years u kno

im sure they want to leave room for a progression system of some kind in the future

gear with set effects on it or whatnot

but yea they look pretty basic rn

[random stirrup]

It’s not fair to expect it’s just the number one criticism among my group of friends that were initially planning to go hard with it

[glass mortar]

yea for sure and i hate that its set characters

[random stirrup]

I played in one of the first closed betas and expected things to get a lot more complex

[glass mortar]

its a small team iirc and mostly a passion project so those are always a mixed bag but gl to them

id love to see someone make pve content as compelling as wow does

so i could play it during the times when im not playing wow (like now)

cant even get back into pvp cause outlaw is ass this season in shuffle too

[random stirrup]

It is also very worrying that the first set of streamers they promoted for the open beta were 75% classic andies

combined with the issue of class complexity might indicate they are more aiming for a classic style audience idk

[glass mortar]

that would surprise me greatly, i feel like one of the aspects classic players hate the most about retail is often m+?

infinite difficulty dungeon grinder

you dont need to act like its classic players that want simpler combat tho, just look at the most played specs in the modern game even

[random stirrup]

yeah also true

[glass mortar]

it might be trying to appeal to a broader audience to get into dungeon combat, rather then super hard classes u make the dungeon content harder

you can always add more difficult classes later

[random stirrup]

Even stuff like ret though has complexity in its utility

[subtle field]

!stats

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[glass mortar]

i mean theres a fair contigent of players that think classes have too much utility in this game and it limits role flexibility

[random stirrup]

Every dps I tried had one cc of some sort (except rime but mage bias xd), one wall, and one kick

[glass mortar]

but i agree not having buttons to press to deal with stuff always irks me

its why i cant stand playing ff14 for too long

[frail veldt]

Tobfon was saying you should low CP coup instead before the KS

Now I don't know the truth lol

[gaunt phoenix]

perhaps they are the same

[vivid vessel]

Ye that's cap

Just low cp ks

[timid portal]

Do u also have the catch rate from other bosses?

[cinder haven]

It probably matters very little in the end

[slate forge]

What’s dps loss of insta ks cancel for ub stacks

[frail veldt]

I NEED THE TRUTH

[cinder haven]

So do I tbh

I respect that

[frail veldt]

Ngl this is the vibe choice I end up going with lol

[cinder haven]

In the current apl, when you are building towards the ks and would have to use ss it will run into the low cp coup rule at least

Doesn’t necessarily mean it’s correct though

[vivid vessel]

I mean

It happen

Every 10 keys

Just press one button

Go next

[cinder haven]

it's so rare I can't prove what's best

[vivid vessel]

I would low cp ks or build to ks depending on how I feel that day tho

Never would I coul first

That's legit noob behavior

[cinder haven]

you think cdr on KS is more valuable than whatever UB stacks you lose?

but if you do KS first, do you low cp KS or build with SS?

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[cinder haven]

the sim almost never runs into this tbh

if you give it 2 UB to start with maybe

[vivid vessel]

And idk like if I have bs and shit I might build

But I'm probably not pressing 7 ss

To ks

Just vibes

[cinder haven]

good vibes though

[vivid vessel]

I know my decision would be correct tho and you cant prove otherwise

[cinder haven]

losing cdr on a lot of shit

if you build 7 times I mean

maybe you are also capped on vanish charges here

this thing will happen mostly in opener I think, where you are actually capped on vanish too

[dawn talon]

i think a lot of people who play wow DO want difficult combat, but fight design pushes them onto simpler things because it's already 'too much' for them

[cinder haven]

very cringe, no good plays only least bad

[frail veldt]

If I'm capped on vanish I'm 100% low CP ks

[dawn talon]

i played with a friend's aotc guild yesterday and man i really do forget that everyone struggles with different things

[frail veldt]

Fukit

[cinder haven]

that's worth simming maybe

[frail veldt]

Yeah I wonder what portion of KS value is damage and what is UB stacks/flawless form stacks

[cinder haven]

happens nearly every sim

the damage part is not insignificant

nor is the CP refund

[dawn talon]

loooots of people got fired

[cinder haven]

if you low CP KS you are wasting the CP refund

[dawn talon]

there was some stuff that could've easily caused another big scandal but they got ahead of it this time, or so ive heard

[cinder haven]

so you lose cdr

[subtle field]

is netherprism better than seaforium? i simmed it and it looks like it, but how do I know at what stacks its been used? is there a way to check in the sim?

[cinder haven]

I think you want at least 5-6 effective CP (including SC)

[slate forge]

But you get ub stacks your instantly using

[cinder haven]

sim doesn't use at any specific stats, just have 4 rtb buffs or something like that

but sim line for netherprism is probably not perfect

use brain

[hasty warren]

What should I do if I have coup during subt window ? keep BTE even if I have to build cp with SS or use coup ?

[cinder haven]

if you have 5+ CP you BTE

[random stirrup]

They talked about it a bunch, went quiet for a few years, then came out saying “yeah we made a bunch of progress then decided we wanted to make our own game, not something similar to what’s already on the market” (when that’s their entire business plan already and it’s proven to work and that’s what most of us wanted) and then fired people and said they were starting from scratch pretty much

[subtle field]

so there is no way to check? im just supposed to a assume it uses it at 18 stacks?

[random stirrup]

Very disappointing

[cinder haven]

if you would have to build with SS it's up to you, seems neutral to low cp coup. To me it felt bad when I tried tho

like once you've gotten your double coups out maybe subt is over

and you got no real value for the ff stacks while also losing some crackshot btes

so I build with SS there

[slate forge]

If your low cps and double coup would end sub building to bte would also end subt ~half the time

[cinder haven]

yeah maybe it's ok if you anyway can't fit another bte

but also, I came up with new vanish rules that make it less likely for this to happen

if you follow the vanish if you couped within the last 10 sec rule, you can sometimes vanish with high EB stacks and UB charges

but I know a lot of people don't vanish if they can force coup

unless maybe if capped on vanish charges

theres no good time to vanish on trickster

just less bad times

[subtle field]

@gaunt phoenix ah oaky thanks 🙂 are one of the actives something we wanna use rather then 2 passive trinkets? given its the same ilvl?

[gaunt phoenix]

they're close enough to be preference

sigil is bis, then you pick/sim between stone idol/netherprism/antenna/warpclaw/...

[subtle field]

seems its just easier to play with the passive ones then

[cinder haven]

unconditional KS at low CP if capped on vanish charges was like -0.3%

[keen belfry]

having fun on feral guys

thoughts?

[torpid heath]

having fun on monk

[keen belfry]

nah

[indigo token]

pretty good 13 gambit

[bright crane]

That’s a 13 gambit alright

You can tell because of the way it is

[lethal oak]

Having fun on DK

[cinder haven]

Having fun on outlaw

[lethal oak]

On Midnight Alpha*

[cinder haven]

[subtle field]

got myth idol in my vault, but didnt plan on outlawing🫠

[elder phoenix]

how are fire mages

and what build are tehy using

are they using just ignite build or

what

[random stirrup]

Why play fire when arcane does everything better

[subtle field]

higher details number?

[slate forge]

Saying that in the “outlaw” channel is funny

[safe pasture]

=[

[cinder haven]

low cp KS if you would otherwise have to low cp coup is also a 0.3% loss unless I made some mistake

[random stirrup]

real

[frail veldt]

yeah wtf rofl

[random stirrup]

but also he asked how fire mage is doing

[frail veldt]

hey fellow outlaw players, what build are fire mages playing

[cinder haven]

so apl was right all along

[bright crane]

Fire is good if you click the Activate button under Arcane

[frail veldt]

oh damn

[bright crane]

I heard that’s how you get the most dps out of fire

[frail veldt]

so you should build even if it wastes UB

[cinder haven]

no?

I didn't test that

[frail veldt]

sorry im confused

[keen belfry]

+6 arakara nbd

[cinder haven]

I can try blocking low cp coup if KS is available

[frail veldt]

ooooh I see what youre saying

so low cp ks is def a loss compared to low cp coup before ksing

[cinder haven]

yes

[frail veldt]

gooootcha

[cinder haven]

also low cp KS if capped on vanish charges was bad

[frail veldt]

interesting

[cinder haven]

in general low cp KS is bad

[frail veldt]

so even with capped vanish

youd double low cp coup

[cinder haven]

because you lose double CDR

[slate forge]

How much difference is it to vanish after ks in opener instead of coup I hate sitting on double vanish charges

[cinder haven]

but I'm testing now if wasting UB is ok

[frail veldt]

also just to verify, even if you have 3 EB and at least 1 UB stack but youre capped on vanish you want to vanish right?

talking mainlya bout the opener situation

[cinder haven]

it's good

and you should

[glass mortar]

the rules always been to skip coup in the opener

[cinder haven]

ye

[glass mortar]

u kspree then vanish again

its sooo much wasted vanish cdr to buildup and spend double coup in the opener while u have 2 vanishes off cd

[slate forge]

Thanks that makes me happy

[cinder haven]

yeah so there is a rule that allows vanish if you'll cap in 15 seconds and you have neither KS or coup available

[keen belfry]

i coup first

[cinder haven]

get him boys

[glass mortar]

this is y you'll never be him

but u just keep askin

anyway

💅

[keen belfry]

i am Hymn

[slate forge]

So it was awang that led me down the wrong path

[keen belfry]

what does vanish cdr matter on first pull floodgate

[cinder haven]

building with SS if both coup and KS are available seems more ok, still small loss though .1%

just above error margin

now we know

[frail veldt]

yeah imo I will coup even with 2 charge vanish if its like a big pull that I know needs to die fast

so like t hose giga opener pulls

[cinder haven]

what a waste of electricity these sims were

[frail veldt]

partly cuz im night elf

so I have so much subterfuge to get through anyway

so idc about wasting some cdr on vanish

[cinder haven]

half of the climate changes are probably due to my sims

[safe pasture]

so im having some tanks have me gather packs for them is there anything like special when doing that i need to know? i kinda just been hitting them throwing evasion up and going from there but not sure if thats the right way to do it or not

[frail veldt]

lol me when I have cursor running to create unit tests and python scripts for random visualization for a presentation

my carbon footprint has to be wild rn

[slate forge]

Save the earth play bm hunter

[frail veldt]

its crazy how fast other spec apls run

my shadow priest sims in like 3 seconds

[slate forge]

If my CTO buff comes up as red with the weak aura does that mean it proc’d off one of the buffs I already have and one of my other buffs will stay when I roll ?

[subtle field]

with netherprism when I have used Kir, do i just keep sending its active? so like if I have 40 sec left I just send 2 trinket uses?

[gaunt phoenix]

No you send it with vanish specifically

vanish AND good buffs rolling

[subtle field]

interesting, do you mean I send it for the crackshot window?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[subtle field]

makes sense

so if I have 4 buffs up and I have vanish I send? even though I just sent it 20 sec ago?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah sure that's fine

but you also vanish based on coup and killing spree

[subtle field]

well yeah. you mean just sending coup and ks before going into crackshot

I usually just send ks and tghen coup if I have them both up

idk if it matters alot

[gaunt phoenix]

You try to hold vanish until after the coups

[subtle field]

ye

[vivid vessel]

why did i do a delve and get 17 gilded

[cinder haven]

Map plus 7?

[daring oxide]

11?

[cinder haven]

But isn’t map 11?

Can’t remember

[vivid vessel]

i got 10 + 7

map gives ?

i forgot about that

[cinder haven]

Ye

[vivid vessel]

ah ok

but ye 17

i guess map + 7 from 11

okok

[jolly geyser]

3 times a week glided from 11 delve

[elder phoenix]

whats the max gilded can you get this week

?

90 still right?

[west ridge]

90 every week until thye uncap

[worldly shale]

what is this fellowship bullshit

should i download it

[glass mortar]

if u wanna

its exactly what it looks like

[frail veldt]

the classes dont look fun enough yet

Needs a lot of work hope they can sort it out

[timid portal]

no outlaw no download

[jolly geyser]

no outlaw,download

[lament locust]

@vivid vessel yo sorry for ping but i use your rouge wa pack, did you ever have your sub shadowcraft refund sound spam play during nexus king intermission platforms ?

[vivid vessel]

no

[lament locust]

okay weird idk whats casuing it ty tho

[vivid vessel]

it can happen if you get parried i think

or if something evade

like if your tank jump off

cause then mob evade and you spam a finisher

i think that can cause it

idk

[glass mortar]

i get jumpscared everytime im playing fatebound and i get parried ngl

[vivid vessel]

not even sure that would do it

[glass mortar]

why is this shit still in the game

[worldly shale]

theres like 6 woman in fellowship wtf is this

no offense to woman

but like

idk

[glass mortar]

if u had to guess if theres more women or men pcs in wow what would u guess

[vivid vessel]

what

[jolly geyser]

[glass mortar]

like 75% of the dudes i know play women characters so they can look at them while playing

r u really surprised

[vivid vessel]

idk

[glass mortar]

id be surprised if the blood elf race wasnt 95% fem at this point

[vivid vessel]

the female model is just better

[glass mortar]

idk how they are going to keep a population going

[vivid vessel]

its not really gooning

[quaint mauve]

so is heads bugged? or no?

[glass mortar]

depends on the race but sometimes sure

[vivid vessel]

but also if i were to get to chose my gender at birth i would have went woman so there is that

[worldly shale]

how am i gonna goon to this

[glass mortar]

ok gooner

[cinder haven]

Dwarf male run animation is goated

[worldly shale]

frostmourne looking ass sword

[vivid vessel]

no goon it just how it is

[glass mortar]

its ok to be afraid of strong women but I wouldnt admit it in a public discord like this

💅

i know quite a few people who would goon to this

[vivid vessel]

i an goon to anything im ngl

[indigo token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

[jolly geyser]

I just like f belf better, the males look weird

[quaint mauve]

i like how leather and cloth mogs look on female models

[vivid vessel]

i have done wild goon sessions

[glass mortar]

sounds like you just havent tried hard enough yet 😏

thank god somn isnt part of this convo

[quaint mauve]

i don’t like how they look on male models

so

female model better

[worldly shale]

ok emo mommy is goonable

thanks

[jolly geyser]

zandalari male is good thou

[glass mortar]

that the new rogue they added

[vivid vessel]

talking of gooning

brb

[jolly geyser]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1017054914398126122/1401342404853891143/goldec_-_1951317397521973499.gif?ex=68cd3b11&is=68cbe991&hm=e00cbb84b6dda50ee9ac6ae970dd6daac8a1bfc7305cd75ad3180adcf9a79ebf&

[quaint mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-huh-cat-kitten-kitty-gif-5273247718297236208

my gifs all double send wtf

echoing reprimand or something

[frail veldt]

most of the male models in wow look goofy af

like uncoordinated body builders

[quaint mauve]

agreed

i just think that

[frail veldt]

they just dont look athletic lol

[quaint mauve]

a width slider would help

[frail veldt]

yeah fr

fr fr

[quaint mauve]

they’re just tooo big

[frail veldt]

they really really need some sliders

[quaint mauve]

armor looks clunky on them if ur not a plate class

[glass mortar]

idk vulpera male scales armor just fine

[frail veldt]

yeah ronnie coleman stealthed trying to sneak up

[glass mortar]

[frail veldt]

yeah pick the critter race

thats smart

might as well just never use your mog

not like anyone can see it

[glass mortar]

and male pandas have the most cake of any race in the game so

💅

i play worgen tho so i am not a sellout

[frail veldt]

male panda looks p good I like that model

kul tiran is also cool

tbh I like troll as well

and undead model files

[glass mortar]

troll has good animations and model i just hate the feet

[frail veldt]

truuuu

[cinder haven]

I still want a buff for undead racial

[glass mortar]

undead as well both body types yea

[frail veldt]

the feet are a lil much

[glass mortar]

very good animations

[frail veldt]

same

undead animations are by far my favorite

[cinder haven]

Undead animations are good

[glass mortar]

shame its racial is just dog

same as vulpera for me

[frail veldt]

undead two hander animation is SICK

[glass mortar]

keeps me away from it

[frail veldt]

and all the caster animations are cool too

just banger all around

[quaint mauve]

undead is my favorite race

[glass mortar]

undead has some real sick animations overall especially for casters

[indigo token]

i be beating my shit to female pandarens on the daily

and i know you 🫵 do too

[glass mortar]

pandaren have some of the most extra 2h animations in the game too

[quaint mauve]

don’t make me get guy on you again…

[glass mortar]

go to character creation and pick male panda dk and check that idle combat animation

most anime shit in the game

[jolly geyser]

should go female orc,best mog looks

[copper radish]

Bout to play some MOP so I can feel what it’s like for rogue to be on top in raid

[cinder haven]

Maghar female orc good mogs

But I’m dwarf now

Male dwarf run animation

[indigo token]

zac was talking about gooning

[gentle sky]

shoud i RTB more looking at this whit out LD`?

[cinder haven]

Beating the odds a bit

[jolly geyser]

1077 rolls in one dungeon

[glass mortar]

does that track per dungeon i thought it just tracked since uve gotten the WA period

[gaunt phoenix]

it's overall

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe a bit

sleight does technically roll over any 2 buffs

[quaint mauve]

he gets a pass

are you rank 1 ?

[noble matrix]

Quick question, and I dont want to seems like a moron, how do we get around without ambush especially in openers?

Do we just keep casting sinister ?

[glass mortar]

if u dont have better builders available yes

[noble matrix]

So now Sinister > ambush ?

[glass mortar]

only HO builds press ambush

it is not a button unless you take that talent

[noble matrix]

Ok thanks !

[ocean lodge]

Only downside is the leather mogging

They look great in plate tho

[glass mortar]

i just wish they had bodysliders in this game

id be happy as a chubby panda