outlaw

[wintry solar]

Assuming we still have it

No telling what happens next expac

[mighty pivot]

stealth removed

[wintry solar]

I'm worried we're hyping up 4 lines of change lol

[wintry solar]

I'd like to talent out of without a trace and into tea if we get a good mastery

[mighty pivot]

outlaw is not fixable in 4 lines. And sub and assa need attention as well

assa tree is the least ass (pun always intended) comparatively

[wintry solar]

Yeah it's not, which is what scares me

I like current assa tbh

Bugs aside

[mighty pivot]

assa is flexible which is nice if you like its playstyle (I don't). But assa also has to choose between the two worst hero trees

[wintry solar]

Yeah that do be an issue

[indigo token]

rogue really got the short end of the stick this expansion

[wintry solar]

I play ds because I'm undead

[indigo token]

horrible hero trees

expansion spanning bugs

[wintry solar]

Probably the worst option but I don't play high keys as assa

[mighty pivot]

trickster can be very good with a few changes, DS maybe as well. I don't see FB being enjoyable without a major rework

[wintry solar]

I don't like adr breaking stealth

[random geyser]

anyone on that can give me a few pointer curious how to get better parses and see if i have any glaring issues

[midnight agate]

Hey guys, to those of you using idol, how long did it take to drop? I've been running HoA for days now without success

[mighty pivot]

nothing feels good with FB, not just the stealth break. Even if they fix the crippling bugs

[wintry solar]

From a gameplay perspective, it's the most annoying aspect

Yeah it's all bad

Even quad grapple

It's not bad

But I never need 4

[mighty pivot]

you can use !log in here normally and people sometimes help but it's late now dunno how many people will react

[random geyser]

had one up since last night 😛

[glass mortar]

theres more logs up then there is people reviewing them unfort

reading outlaw logs suck

[mighty pivot]

outlaw logs aren't very easy to read ye

[grim spear]

Rashanan

[random geyser]

i figured but since i am here and could speak in a channel didnt know if it might make it easier then typing up a report i know last time I did one i got no response and it disappeared

[mighty pivot]

if FB had perma tricks you could pull for the tank lacking perma tricks is very annoying

[wintry solar]

The tree that relies on not dropping combat doesn't have perma tricks

[indigo token]

fucking

its like

[wintry solar]

You would think it's a given

[random geyser]

lucky coin is dumb af

[indigo token]

i understand fotm rerollers now

[hybrid crown]

tfw you wipe and the tank immediately releases and gets all the aggro back with md

[mighty pivot]

that's goated tbh

[indigo token]

because it feels so apocalyptically bad to play a class the devs ignore

like at least arms FUNCTIONS

[wintry solar]

Yeah I've been playing my dk lately

Surv a little

[mighty pivot]

you disgust me

[wintry solar]

You don't do anything to me

[mighty pivot]

good

[wintry solar]

And what's that spelled backwards

[mighty pivot]

taht?

[wintry solar]

You ruined it

[mighty pivot]

story of my life

[wintry solar]

You disgust me as well now

[wintry solar]

https://youtu.be/oh8zcbC_Dcw

U rn

[mighty pivot]

ye that was immediately in my head as I was typing it

[wintry solar]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-same-wavelength-twins-thinking-cosmic-energy-gif-15106217

[mighty pivot]

I liked playing it on guitar hero too

[wintry solar]

Dude

They're making a new guitar hero

[mighty pivot]

are they trying to revive the genre?

[wintry solar]

Well, the company believe the genre never died because of how many GH clones there are

[indigo token]

jesus christ

the more I think about outlaw

the angrier i get

[wintry solar]

Yeah this is my least favorite version of outlaw

[indigo token]

like

not gameplay wise

balance wise

[wintry solar]

Oh

Well that too

[indigo token]

i like outlaw this expansion

[vale plume]

is the 678 cudgel worth using over 720 crafted offhand?

[mighty pivot]

s2 was miles more fun than double coup

[wintry solar]

Yeah for sure

Even with the killer killing spree

I only like outlaw now

The subt looping just ain't it for me

But everything else is fun

[random geyser]

i definately wish we werent so low on meters

[indigo token]

like

its so frustrating

and im being told its a fucking skill issue

like ITS NOT

WE FUCKING SUCK

I FEEL LIKE IM TAKING FUCKING CRAZY PILLS

are we elitist? do people just dislike us?

[wintry solar]

Yes to both

Let's not kid ourselves

[drowsy ridge]

We're already at a disadvantage because other players hate Rogues because they died to one in PvP or were ganked while leveling

[smoky lotus]

the rng is what gets me, like its ok or evens out in keys. But to be so different every raid boss pull just because you didnt roll 5 is annoying

[indigo token]

im just so tired

i wish we knew what was going on

[wintry solar]

678 is so low that I doubt but it wouldn't surprise me. Should sim because I'm in the same boat.

[errant terrace]

are we still tracking unseen blade for coup de grace?

[mighty pivot]

the best part is when you 5 roll your prepull supercharger rtb

[wintry solar]

Dude no

Plz stop

[indigo token]

its all over the screen

[mighty pivot]

and then you pull and you get BT GM

[random geyser]

anyone else see top parses getting like double your BTE procs?

[wintry solar]

Yeah

I hate using builders in windows where spenders make or break your meters

It wouldn't be as bad if we weren't a cdr spec

[stiff vector]

@gaunt phoenix https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hbWz4AdTNrM62ZHx?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=421 look at this shit lol...so do I just have the literal worst rng of all time or something or are coins just suddenly doing weird/bugged shit because ive never seen this happen before like a week ago. 20 more heads than tails, shit ace rng, <40% uptime on BS lul. Look at the plexus kill too..like idek man my character might just be cursed

[wintry solar]

But we are so I hate it

[random geyser]

been questioning my dps a lot cause of that idek if its just bad rng or what

[indigo token]

imagine they just turn us into cdr ret

throw their hands and give up

god i fucking hate blizzard

[wintry solar]

They may go too far in one direction when simplifying outlaw. It's def possible

[mighty pivot]

it's TB under 40% not BS

[smoky lotus]

Make kir give you 30s on all rolls, even if you didnt roll it 😄

[gaunt phoenix]

well head/tails does look normal here

[wintry solar]

Either does or doesnt

[random geyser]

just make it 50 35 15 we dont need a 6% rng thats insane

[indigo token]

idk man

like what do we do?

[wintry solar]

Pray

[random geyser]

cry

[gaunt phoenix]

also 37 out of 98 bte procs is not particularly unusual i think

[wintry solar]

Both is good

[indigo token]

with how we've been treated

[stiff vector]

ye but like...on our nexus prince prog pulls last week, this was literally never a problem for a single pull. Like for some reaosn I was doing far more(normal) damage on every nexus prince pull and then on some of these pulls im just literally doing complete piss damage playing the exact same

[indigo token]

i dont trust them to suddenly turn around and pay attention to us

im expecting either being ignored or a complete butchered rework

i genuinely have 0 faith

[gaunt phoenix]

your lucky coin opener did get goofed and not being able to kit until 90s into the fight is definitely oof

[stiff vector]

ye

my rng is actually cursed recently

its just

so fucked

[wintry solar]

I'm sure the rework will be good. Granted it may not go in a direction I like. But that doesn't mean it'll be bad.

[smoky lotus]

bring back dreadblades honestly

[random geyser]

@gaunt phoenix just slowly working through !logs? just curious when i might be able to try and sort my stuff out

[indigo token]

im just really fucking angry

ugh

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont really have time recently

[wintry solar]

I had my caffeine fix so I'm more optimistic rn

[random geyser]

I feel like it is super hard to balance outlaw as it is now and needs a burst window and some less rng stuff

[gaunt phoenix]

also kir logs just cant be read beyond the most basic shit

[random geyser]

all good anyone else i should talk to?

i know y'all are probably swamped since we all feel like we must be doing something wrong xD

[indigo token]

idk like

part of why I like outlaw is the flat dps

[errant terrace]

are we still tracking unseen blade for coup? I never payed attention before D:

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[random geyser]

@indigo token but a huge part of why we suck is flat

[wintry solar]

Same but honestly its been a hindrance.

[errant terrace]

blegh, what's the reasoning behindit? I don't think I understand why

[indigo token]

ugh

[errant terrace]

like what am I supposed to track with it I guess

[indigo token]

i never want to hear a stupid fucking xiv player say "oh wow's balance is so much better"

fuck you

you're so lucky

[torpid fiber]

Do they actually say that???

[random geyser]

wow's overall balance is better some people just get fucked

[indigo token]

YES

because they're insanely bitter about xiv

[wintry solar]

I don't want to hear an xiv player in general

[indigo token]

but i play xiv

[torpid fiber]

isn't the whole reason xiv rotation design is Like That in order to make it pisseasy to balance???

?????

[gaunt phoenix]

you track when unseen blade is guaranteed- pressing killing spree gives you 2 of them

when unseen blade is guaranteed, you prioritize sinister strike over other builders to consume them asap

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[wintry solar]

Aw man I'm sorry :(

[hollow bloom]

They complain about the range tax is all. I bet anyway.

[torpid fiber]

I like xiv but rotations in that game are so fucking unfun/boring

[indigo token]

i mean its an acquired taste

i play wow to blast gear

i play ff to have fun

[wintry solar]

I've tried on multiple occasions to play it but I can't get into it

[indigo token]

like I said

acquired taste

[wintry solar]

Yeah acquired taste

[torpid fiber]

I like ff14 at least so far but also that's bc I enjoy healing in it (at least during levelling, I finished shadowbringers levelling msq last time I played)

I know if I ever get into healing in wow it'd ruin ff14 for me

[random geyser]

I really dont mind them simplifying rotations a bit i wanna watch the fights lately i feel like i am watching bars

[wintry solar]

Also doesn't have what I want in classes

[torpid fiber]

I legit can't play melee in 14 because it's sooooo boring compared to outlaw

[indigo token]

i mean id like more complexity in ff's jobs design

but i dont want wow

[errant terrace]

tyty

[indigo token]

cause i dont want hard jobs and hard fights

thats miserable

[torpid fiber]

Yeah that's fair

I just kinda hate the design of "you have 4 ogcd buttons that do literally nothing but deal damage and your minmaxes are entirely about pressing them asap so they don't drift in the ogcd space and lose you 2% damage bonus on one during a cd window"

[indigo token]

i mean i get it

i like it cause it gets me into a flowstate

[torpid fiber]

One of the big things with outlaw is that every button we press feels like it does something, and that just isn't true in 14

AST is fun as fuck though even if I have some small issues with it

[indigo token]

i mean I Play a lot of black mage and Dancer

[torpid fiber]

BLM feels awesome

[indigo token]

also i admit

i am becoming a massive final fantasy nerd

im playing FFV rn

[wintry solar]

That's a great way to put it. I prefer pre-crackshot outlaw because it did the same. Now I gotta focus

[hollow bloom]

The first iteration of AST was insanity. In a fun way. But not optimal in the slightest.

[torpid fiber]

I've heard about it and it sounds fun

[indigo token]

popo

[wintry solar]

Ye

[indigo token]

you know what I enjoy in outlaw

[torpid fiber]

Current iteration is neat except for the part where because you don't have mouseover macros your burst window is like 400 apm

[indigo token]

those short periods of time where you're trying to get AR back

and you have enough procs to do so

[stiff vector]

ye my character is for sure cursed, legit get orbs or lines so often on soulbinder lul

[indigo token]

and you can get back to blasting

thats nice

[torpid fiber]

ff14 if you had party frame mouseover macros for healing:

[random geyser]

ya know what my favorite part of this season is gonna be?

[wintry solar]

That's probably my favorite part too

[random geyser]

when we get turbo boost and are the spec that gets the least out of it XD

[hollow bloom]

When procs line up and you get a nat 20 roll.

[indigo token]

yknow whats depressing me

like

[frank bane]

Nah, the best is getting a 5 roll and getting hit with forced downtime phase or area of denial ability. Peek Gameplay.

[indigo token]

I realize now we can have the "buhFlipExplode" style of crackshot gameplay

and the slower gameplay

in two seperate tree sections

if they got rid of fucking, greenskin's wickers

yknow how enh shaman had totemic and stormbringer with different playstyles, both viable

why cant we have that too

[random geyser]

why is it even there have we ever used it?

[indigo token]

btw buhflipexplode is

https://tenor.com/view/buh-flip-explode-buh-flip-explode-backflip-gif-13296794963318526633

fire emote

[wintry solar]

It's been close to viable sometimes

But yeah

[random geyser]

so no?

[wintry solar]

It's a shell of It's former self

[indigo token]

its kind of sad that we just ignore a capstone for 2 expansions

like what the fuck

[wintry solar]

Expansion and a half

[random geyser]

that was my thought like if its that bad drop or move it lol

[hollow bloom]

Surely, they rework outlaw in the expansion and make it a tanking spec out of no where!

[random geyser]

would be better then being the worst dps spec tbf

[frank bane]

It's because we don't make forum posts like this

[random geyser]

hasnt shaman been pretty decent overall?

[proper veldt]

shamans complaining

there's no way

[indigo token]

i wont lie

like

i feel like that sometimes

i remember hearing about the "bus shock" incident

i thought it was back in BC tho

[wintry solar]

Bus shock?

[languid tartan]

Hi outlaw all
Is there consolidated data for Outlaw Rogue showing weapon wax/oil and whetstone values, broken out for Mythic+ and raid?

[wintry solar]

I read it

[indigo token]

yeah

bus + flame shock

bus shock

[wintry solar]

All I want from Outlaw next expac

Is vanish less loaded

And for it to be fun in pvp

Ironically they go hand in hand

[rich moon]

don't you love getting 5 buffs from the super charger pre pull roll?

[random geyser]

its the best i love getting 30 less BTE casts then my best pulls as outlaw xD

[digital linden]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[craggy jay]

guys im pretty new to outlaw and i love it so far but why are we using an dagger as off hand ? is there a reason, i just want to understand

[random geyser]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[craggy jay]

king

[wintry solar]

Good mog and better play can make up the difference

[stiff vector]

boy do I love playing 1fth in raid and spamming SS 8 times in a row while I get fucked in the ass while im supposed to be blasting the adds that last all of 5 seconds now

[wintry solar]

I thought it was fun

"This outlaw is fun and neat!"

looks inside

9 sinister strikes with no opp procs or ace resets

[hoary wave]

is it too late to hope for some changes?

at this point in the season

[wintry solar]

This expac yes

[hoary wave]

i mean buffs

sorry

[wintry solar]

Oh no

[shell fossil]

just heard sometime in feb for next expansion so

[hoary wave]

yeah.. remix in 20 days or something

[shell fossil]

and apparently the .5 patch is around october

[wintry solar]

5th I think

[shell fossil]

so nah we're probably cooked

[stiff vector]

I dont understand how im ever supposed to do dmg to araz adds when I have to soak ot place the adds like every fucking time

and they evaporate to real specs in like 5 seconds lul

[shell fossil]

i always figured the pad came at the end of phase 3

[hybrid crown]

omg look at boss damage statistics for araz vs damage

its so funny

[gaunt phoenix]

araz parsing is strange

[hybrid crown]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/44?boss=3132&metric=bossdps

trickster st is so dumb

[gaunt phoenix]

LOL yeah

like it's not a bad fight

trickster boss damage is just not there

[wintry solar]

This raid is hella fun when you're not playing outlaw.

Esp dimmy

Easily the coolest fight all expac

[frail veldt]

Does damage to adds even count on logs even count on first boss mythic

[frail veldt]

I didn't like it even on my other classes

I don't like amusement park fights

[wintry solar]

Zac 2.0 over here

Nah but I like this raid more than I thought

[quaint mauve]

@frail veldt 17 gambit?

[frail veldt]

ooooooooooooooooooo I would be totally down but im bout to do hardmode taz 🙁

[quaint mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-silly-cat-happy-cat-smile-gif-11748501437476694103

[wintry solar]

[tender wedge]

I actually cannot imagine a worse fight for outlaw lol, tried in for the first time last night and legit lost to protwar tank

[wintry solar]

Yeah low-key vomit inducing

[tender wedge]

I was like ehhh to lazy to change specs tonight

And I was flying high off the back of high rolling on fractillus

Brought me right back down to earth real quick

[wintry solar]

Bad raid for outlaw in general tbh

Tuning not in our favor

[tender wedge]

Yeah it’s not great but the fights don’t generally feel awful other than dimmy

The results of course are a different story

So I ripped a 99 on fractillus and was 8th in dps in a 20ish man raid 🤣

[quaint mauve]

do yall run

tier legs

or hands

legs have more mastery

but vers

but hoa hands r good

so idk

[tender wedge]

I think it’s probably so close it doesn’t matter tbh

You’ve got a big gulp of icky mastery either way

[gaunt phoenix]

just did a key where bubbling wax did nothing at all

some things never change

[bright crane]

why?

[gaunt phoenix]

halls of atonement doesnt count for some reason

[bright crane]

wtf

classic blizzard

[quaint mauve]

i didnt know

mythic mega guilds existed

wtf

[keen belfry]

holy come up

[prisma sapphire]

yea this tier

is just painful

[stiff vector]

ye idk man this spec is just unbearably awful to play for me in raid last 2 weeks

its like suddenly I just do 0 dmg every pull

any time I play fatebound

[bright crane]

i finally got daggers

so i can start doing soem damage in raid

crafted a crit/vers dagger for ol oh/sub mh

[stiff vector]

ye Id rather jump off dornogals highest building than play sub every fight

the pad fights were "good" at, are impossible to actually parse on now because the adds get evaporated, and somehow every boss we play fatebound on im suddenly doing like massively less coin damage than top logs for seemingly no reason

[quaint mauve]

its so boring

[torpid heath]

Randomness is so cringe

Some people say MM hunter randomness is crazy but i think outlaw is way worse

[cinder relic]

Its not

MM has almost 2x the variance as Outlaw

[random geyser]

real world or sim?

[gaunt phoenix]

Both

MM is truly a slot machine spec

[cinder relic]

Id argue is worse because MM is a burst spec

If you just dont proc in your CDs, its like you didn't even CD at all

[random geyser]

i just feel like if i get bad BTE proc i am fucked

[cinder relic]

We've missed damage checks on mythic more than once because our hunter didnt proc properly

Like ofc outlaw will feel worse because ur just gonna have less resources n shit but

the MM Swings are fucking huge

[random geyser]

fair and they are better then rogue proc or not right?

[cinder relic]

wut

[random geyser]

mm hunter are beating outlaw even if they roll mid to bad in a lot of fights

[cinder relic]

Uh probably, Outlaw is mega mid rn

But when you are setting up cooldowns on a mythic encounter with cooldowns, and your "assigned cooldown spec" doesn't proc and deals no damage and u miss the check its a big deal

[random geyser]

is there anyway people are effecting their BTE Ace procs cause i have 40 less BTW on fights with similar kill time right now and idk y

[torpid fiber]

they might just be playing better overall

[gaunt phoenix]

just supercharger

[torpid fiber]

or getting less mechanics

[random geyser]

i guess my biggest thing might be trying to adjust when i KIR cause i feel like waiting for 4 buffs is taking to long

[gaunt phoenix]

you can kir at the last second of 3 buffs

[random geyser]

I know i have a weakaura that helps a bit but i am bad at watching it

[cinder haven]

I even insta kir three good buffs these days

To get kir on cd

[gaunt phoenix]

the trifecta yea sure

[random geyser]

I think thats what i need to dothen

[cinder haven]

I think you can add snc to the trifecta even

And if you do it happens quite a lot

Maybe also gm in aoe

[civic zephyr]

hey does this mean i prio sinister strike when out of stealth / subterfuge / and when theres no coup de grace? also when adr isnt falling off, so i would use this over opportunity and blade flurry

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

you prio SS over everything

[civic zephyr]

ok thank yoouuuu

[gaunt phoenix]

Even in stealth it is fine

to proc a flawless form in stealth

[random geyser]

so roll on 3 and, broadside, truebearing, or snc are up?

[cinder haven]

Unless you have 4 EB already ofc

Then avoid ss like the plague

[gaunt phoenix]

i would kir at the last 0.1 seconds of 3 buffs unless it is the trifecta RP+BS+TB

[torpid fiber]

oh I've been meaning to ask because I think technically it's slightly unclear and I'm stupid

If I have coup up and a UB stack and an opp proc at low cp, do I use PS to build to coup, or does the logic go "ub active -> press SS -> coup active so replace SS with coup whenever you'd do it -> press coup" and end up pressing coup instantly?

[random geyser]

alright

[cinder haven]

No no

[gaunt phoenix]

You ps

[torpid fiber]

kk

[cinder haven]

Don’t ss with coup available ever really

[torpid fiber]

Yeah

It wasn't press ss

[cinder haven]

Maybe maybe ok I’m stealth

Oh i misread

[torpid fiber]

It was:

1. The rules say press SS as priority 1 builder with UB active
2. The rules say that with Coup active, whenever you'd build with SS press Coup instead

And so when you apply both of those rules you get Coup there instead of ps

[cinder haven]

Rule 2 trumps rule 1 ye

[torpid fiber]

yeah

[gaunt phoenix]

just rule 1 is not a thing when at EB4

[torpid fiber]

makes sense

Yeah, just wanted to clarify because it's come up a decent bit

[rotund zodiac]

do I still use op proc/bf to build cps at the second coup? or just send?

[gaunt phoenix]

You opp if you have it

or bf

[rotund zodiac]

aight

[torpid fiber]

(and both options don't feel that bad, because if you send low coup instead of opp that means you have the opp for the subt window you're probably about to go into)

[gaunt phoenix]

sometimes if vanish is ready i would rather coup early and save opp for vanish

[torpid fiber]

it's just feelycraft stuff probs

[gaunt phoenix]

thats just feelsies or vibe based on rng

[dense bolt]

vvevv

What is 6000j

?

[gaunt phoenix]

joules

[dense bolt]

holy schmokes thats a lot of those things yep

[torpid fiber]

that's my username on every other server, but whenever I set it as my username here the mods forcibly change it

[gaunt phoenix]

what why

[torpid fiber]

So I have my wow character's name in front instead to avoid that happening

[torpid fiber]

I have no clue, it's happened like 4 times and the mods have never said anything to me about it

It might be some automated thing I really have no clue

[dense bolt]

im trying to force my head around what 6000j could mean in a bad way and i dont see it

[torpid fiber]

My only guess has been that names starting with numbers get automatically changed every so often

[gaunt phoenix]

they change names of people who put ! in front to appear at the top of the member list and are obviously soliciting something with their profile

i don't think that applies to you tho

[torpid fiber]

I have no clue why it happens but it's happened a few times over the years so I just don't bother anymore

[rotund zodiac]

even on reddit, everytime outlaw mentions, you always there lol

[torpid fiber]

Doesn't really bother me at the end of the day either way

[gaunt phoenix]

i declare you 6000j now

[torpid fiber]

I gotta be because I'm finally starting to see less people lying about outlaw on reddit and it's important to keep that up

[dense bolt]

ツ

[torpid fiber]

ty.
If it gets changed I guess we'll know something is up lmao.

[rotund zodiac]

bro doing the good deeds

[torpid fiber]

I don't care if people dislike outlaw, I just don't want people who might like outlaw to be scared away from trying the spec because someone said it has insane button bloat

[dense bolt]

speaking of which i cant imagine how this discord would look if we had the same amount of players that for example ret has

would this chatbe going as fast as kai cenats or

[gaunt phoenix]

discord was not as popular back then, but this channel in bfa was not nearly as tame as it is now

[torpid fiber]

I don't know if this channel can get much more densely annoying, so it'd probably be the same

[dense bolt]

Wtf

[torpid fiber]

nah I love y'all

[dense bolt]

ye

[wintry solar]

Do you remember what people were talking about back then?

I wasn't here back then

[gaunt phoenix]

there were a lot of strong opinions on azerite powers

myself included. i was a bit younger and dumber

[dense bolt]

where u doing tc thingy back then aswell

Me started playing in dragonflight me know nothing me noob

[torpid fiber]

I should actually get into TCing sometime, APLs just annoy me to work with

[fathom bramble]

I still hold my harsh stance on blood of the enemy

and no one can change my mind

[dense bolt]

ok here we go

Explain

[fathom bramble]

comes from PvP therefor bad

[dense bolt]

[wintry solar]

I was expecting a hot take ngl lol

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[fathom bramble]

well the real take is that both memebeam and flames were better in most cases

blood of the enemy was better for prio cleave where you can't realistically utilize flames

also flames skillcap was absurdly high

so not generally a realistic recommendation

[wintry solar]

I didn't actually have anything super negative to say about outlaw post S1

[torpid fiber]

hmm, summer project: make a vscode extension for APLs if one doesn't already exist

[fathom bramble]

but prio cleave was just fake most of the time in too many keys and memebeam was rarely used properly in the rotation by players

[gaunt phoenix]

as I recall blood was pretty good if you assumed you could blast with adrenaline rush every pull but you couldnt

[fathom bramble]

the other thing it was like splitting hairs over 3 things that are all good and close

[jolly geyser]

Dunno what outlaw talked here in legion,they nerf the shit before 1 week of raid iirc

[fathom bramble]

and some people including myself got a little too into the arguing sometimes lol

[wintry solar]

What expansion did this server come to existence in?

[dense bolt]

ok speaking of azerite, for sure people lost their jobs cuz the infinte grind and fomo of losing player power outweighd everything right

[jolly geyser]

Legion timesish

[craggy kelp]

is there any realistic damage difference gearing for haste flask/vers flask for sim min maxing?

[gaunt phoenix]

technically your tempered potion is stronger as haste flask

[fathom bramble]

yeah around legion

you can do a search for any keyword and sort by time and see the old old stuff

[wintry solar]

I'm super curious as to how the channel would react going from combat to legion

Outlaw*

[fathom bramble]

it was mixed as I recall

but you can always search the old messages here

[dense bolt]

prob the same as getting crackshot no?

[wintry solar]

That was mixed wasn't it?

[gaunt phoenix]

No I imagine legion outlaw from combat was totally left field and unexpected

[torpid fiber]

I assume these were irc bridged messages or something given the name at the front

[fathom bramble]

it was kind of left field to me and at the same time a very welcome evolution of combat rogue

[fathom bramble]

yeah they were

[gaunt phoenix]

remember outlaw back then was very much yar har pirate

[fathom bramble]

I miss run through

RT+acro for an 11yrd finisher was always very funny in pvp

[jolly geyser]

Heh

[wintry solar]

Yeah was a lot more general rogue than dnd rogue

With the specs

[fathom bramble]

dnd rogue is kind of an omega generalist rogue when you consider all available 5e subclasses

[wintry solar]

Just checked them out

[fathom bramble]

I guess they have basically nothing for bleeds/poisons

looking at the list rn too

[jolly geyser]

I just changed to ass rogue since I wanted to be top dmg

Didnt play outlaw at all almost in legion

[fathom bramble]

yeah a lot of players did that

since it was massive undertuned for basically the entire expansion

even the first week stuff was kind of fake since we were oversimming until I found the error

everyone kind of went in thinking otl would be insane and it just wasn't

[jolly geyser]

[wintry solar]

Was still fun though

I enjoyed it at least

[fathom bramble]

true

especially when/if you get greenskins

[wintry solar]

I loved the pirate stuff

[gaunt phoenix]

Did not touch outlaw until bfa prepatch

[fathom bramble]

one day greenskins will return to its former glory

[wintry solar]

Felt like what combat was trying to be

[torpid fiber]

I started in 7.3 and played sin until 8.0

[random geyser]

i hope our apex talent is just a KIR buff that makes it give all buffs for 30 seconds XD

[fathom bramble]

one of our apex talents better give AR 2 charges

[gaunt phoenix]

i had a thought they would change kir itself to just guarantee your next roll to be a five

[rotund zodiac]

I started playing wow since last season of BFA, I only learned to play sin

[torpid fiber]

They're just gonna make fth an apex talent

[rotund zodiac]

switched to outlaw at SL last season

[wintry solar]

I want to know how outlaw would play if they never made fth shoot multiple pistol shots and where we'd be today.

[random geyser]

thanks for the KIR tips btw @cinder haven / @gaunt phoenix

[rotund zodiac]

I wish I could experience BFA outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

essentially the same effect, but no container stuff, still rotationally interesting

[wintry solar]

It was pretty good

Like 60% adr uptime but still felt fast.

[random geyser]

i just feel like 5 buff is too rare right now its exciting when u hit it but when you dont its ass

[wintry solar]

With proper energy management ofc

[gaunt phoenix]

60% is too high i think

[wintry solar]

Was it lower?

[jolly geyser]

Bfa had snd baked in no?

[wintry solar]

It was a talent

[gaunt phoenix]

i would guess 40-ish

[wintry solar]

I see

[random geyser]

nah just make adr base line and give us a huge ghostly strike for our CD like 50% on a 7 min CD like KiR so we get a big dmg amp every like 2 min

[wintry solar]

There was that trait that gave haste if you rolled a 1 buff that I thought was neat

[fathom bramble]

there was something real cursed with AR in legion season 2 that I'm surprised they even let us do with the tierset

[wintry solar]

Snake eyes?

[fathom bramble]

AR persisted at half strength for 8 seconds after AR but the GCD reduction was full strength

so if you managed to get AR back fast enough you get hit with the 0.6 gcd

[prisma sapphire]

@cinder relic where is that DPS variance chart located

[gaunt phoenix]

click 'additional raid information' here https://simulationcraft.org/reports/TWW3_Raid.html

[prisma sapphire]

Ty

[cinder relic]

^

[gaunt phoenix]

you can change the url to go to snapshots of old tiers

like this is Uldir https://simulationcraft.org/reports/T22_Raid.html

of course, there's no expectation on how optimized these profiles actually are/were

[wintry solar]

It was agility and it was called Paradise Lost

Blitz was haste

[fathom bramble]

to this day I don't understand why brigands gave haste during AR instead of after it

haste when we need it least..

[prisma sapphire]

Damn

After examining those charts

Makes me want to reroll fury

Low variance, high dps, meta for M+ this season

They got it going on

[wintry solar]

Wasn't it for infinite stars?

[fathom bramble]

I mean it boosted infinite stars a little bit, but stars wasn't our bis unless you were just fishing for a parse

but haste before or after AR is the same thing to stars

[thin fiber]

changing mains seems to be the new spec for us nowadays

[gaunt phoenix]

blitz was introduced a tier before stars

[wintry solar]

So it was just a coincidence then that blitz happened to be good with it

Also needed 2 or 3 stacks of blitz iirc

[fathom bramble]

value after the first was quite significantly reduces iirc

but some profiles won with 2

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm, they dont have a snapshot of the eternal palace tier

[jolly geyser]

Coral trinket

[gaunt phoenix]

definitely up there as one of my fave tiers

[fathom bramble]

the tier where we got nerfed in the middle of my azshara prog for being too good in keys 🙂

[gaunt phoenix]

Also the tier they created the major essences

[gaunt phoenix]

I member using it going into the next tier

[wintry solar]

Crazy how blizz managed to gate the best gameplay behind the most cringe grinds.

[gaunt phoenix]

oh having to pvp for blood

[wintry solar]

That I didn't mind since I pve and pvp

[jolly geyser]

Forgot what it did,but I think of it when I see palace

[wintry solar]

But yeah pvpers having to pve and vice versa was cringe

[fathom bramble]

pvp for blood was something I stayed up all night doing in 1 sitting

[gaunt phoenix]

was an infinitely stacking debuff you consumed to give crit

[fathom bramble]

can't play like that anymore lol

[gaunt phoenix]

lol

[jolly geyser]

Oh

[wintry solar]

Having to raid for a trinket to counter DH

[cinder relic]

It was an on use trinket u applied to a target, it was a damage proc, and it also built staacks

When you reused it, it would give u crit per stack

There was also the inkpod trinket where it would just build stacks on the target, and then when the target went below (I think it was 30%) would explode for all the stacks you built

[wintry solar]

Bfa had great trinkets, they don't make em like they used to anymore

[gaunt phoenix]

I member you got a mythic inkpod on the prog kill

[cinder relic]

wrong

[gaunt phoenix]

i think

[cinder relic]

I got a max titanforged heroic one on the first week

[gaunt phoenix]

oh lol

[cinder relic]

Way funnier

[gaunt phoenix]

titanforging

[jolly geyser]

[torpid fiber]

titanforging moment

[cinder relic]

They for sure do

I mean look at prism this tier lol

Great trinket

[fathom bramble]

I did over 200 underrots trying to get a +10 crawgtusk

[cinder relic]

every season

[fathom bramble]

now THAT was gaming

[cinder relic]

Back to underrot jail

[jolly geyser]

Arcanocrystal and locks chasing the titanforge

[wintry solar]

I can't stand that dungeon anymore.

[fathom bramble]

I got a socketed titanforged one from the trinket vendor and never wore it even once

since outlaw has always had bad secondaries compared to these other classes

[jolly geyser]

[cinder relic]

classic

[torpid fiber]

We still do this it's just for the nightfall mace

[gaunt phoenix]

seem to remember we were a little more crit haste oriented back then

[jolly geyser]

Not like the mace can drop at 723

[cinder relic]

In BFA it was vers/crit still but haste was less, swingy

Feast or famine

PPl still thought we had a haste cap

[fathom bramble]

yeah people would always ask

[torpid fiber]

Titanforging was really fun as a new player in legion, but in retrospect it was so obviously an insane mechanic

[fathom bramble]

and the answer was always that there is no cap

[cinder relic]

"How much haste do you need for outlaw"

[fathom bramble]

and now we have one and it sucks

[jolly geyser]

Then we made up some exact number

Forgot what it was

[fathom bramble]

I actually have a spreadsheet still from one of these season where I was approximating the chance of warforged etc where I did 222 underrots in the first 10 weeks

[cinder relic]

I mean I got every single essence rank 4

200k honor from BGs

The game used to be griiiindy

I miss it

[jolly geyser]

Its like just doing wq pvp in legion and getting highest rank,diff system back then

[gaunt phoenix]

i remember bfa feeling very popular

[cinder relic]

PPl hated bfa remember

[fathom bramble]

tert stats were rarer back then

I think

[gaunt phoenix]

people hated it, but lots of ppl were playing

[cinder relic]

Ya

I loved BFA

and SL honestly

[fathom bramble]

I loved bfa

[cinder relic]

BFA was a good time

[wintry solar]

Bfa lover

[cinder relic]

Spec was fun, raids were good, lots of shit to do out of raid

Was good

[wintry solar]

Great memories. I still go to the zones to reminisce

[fathom bramble]

I think I played bfa more than any other expansion released

[cinder relic]

I probs played SL more but

[gaunt phoenix]

it was the time i was most invested in the game

[winged inlet]

how much of a dps increase i get if i play with monk + warr ? is it that neceserry to play outlaw in specific grp?

[cinder relic]

Probs close

[gaunt phoenix]

monk+war is 10%ish

[winged inlet]

damn thats alot

[jolly geyser]

Most time played is legion for me for sure

[fathom bramble]

miss underrot so much

[wintry solar]

I was unemployed during SL like a lot of people. I was putting minimum 16 hours a day in wow

Playing the best iteration of outlaw

[fathom bramble]

bring back serrated bonespike

the real SBS not the stupid talent sin has

[gaunt phoenix]

legion+bfa was in college so i was in wow every waking moment that i wasnt in class

[cinder relic]

BFA SL Is when I started really getting the game

[wintry solar]

I enlisted during legion so I didn't get to play as much as I wanted

[cinder relic]

Legion I played but I was a noob

[wintry solar]

Shame too

I was apprehensive about outlaw at first ngl

I thought the idea was weird

Ate my words though

[fathom bramble]

I was hyped as soon as I saw that revealing strike was getting baked into sinister strike and we were getting a new proc

kind of always hated revealing tbh

[torpid fiber]

what was revealing strike?

[wintry solar]

I didn't really care for it either

[fathom bramble]

revealing strike had a few different versions over the years

right before it got deleted it was a maintenance debuff that caused SS to have a chance to generate an additional combo point

which is kind of where SS double hitting came from

[dawn talon]

dude they reworked revealing what, 6 times

before realising it needed to go

good god

[cinder relic]

and then they made ghostly strike as an homage to it

[fathom bramble]

here is the mists tooltip

I don't recall if it is meaningfully different from the wod one

[wintry solar]

I get the idea

But to make it it's own button is wild

[fathom bramble]

combat use to just be a bunch of spinning plates

could be fun at times, but man is outlaw so much better

[cinder relic]

I mean revealing strike just is what wow design was, and is u know

Heres a maintanence buff that gives u resources

[wintry solar]

The worst version of outlaw is miles better than the best version of combat for sure

[cinder relic]

Its just opportunity/pistol shot is cooler than reavling strike

[wintry solar]

I remember when player cp was announced and I thought that was stupid (because I'm stubborn and don't like change). Only to find out that combat was ass the entire time.

It really put things into perspective

[hollow bloom]

Insight is such garbage…

[dawn talon]

at its core sure but there is so much more to a lot of things in the game now

[frail veldt]

That seems like it would make target swapping aaaaawful

Glad they got rid of it

[torpid fiber]

When I learned that combo points used to be tied to enemies it blew me away at how they ever thought that was a good idea

[hollow bloom]

Definitely got whiplash when i learned that when i first played SoD

[wintry solar]

Imagine my shock when I realized I played combat since vanilla and it could've been better the entire time.

I'm not sure what target cp actually achieved

Other than being annoying

[hollow bloom]

Probably a relic from something in D&D

[wintry solar]

I get it's like combos in a fighting game but come on

Or that too

[dawn talon]

yep, it's 3.5e rogue jank

even dnd 4e fixed that and 4e was abysmal dogshit

[wintry solar]

Blizz can probably move away from dnd style rogue now that they made a name for themselves

And its been 21 years

The world is your oyster

[cinder relic]

bro

[wintry solar]

You know what they say about hindsight

[fathom bramble]

needing to cast redirect was omega cringe

[jolly geyser]

oh god redirect

[cinder relic]

Only a rogue discord denizen would complain going from targeted CP to personal

[hollow bloom]

That was part of the “skill expression” !

[wintry solar]

I'm man enough to admit that I believed redirect was skill expression

[cinder relic]

"Just dumbing down the spec idk"

[wintry solar]

LMAOOOO

[cinder relic]

"Doesn't even feel like rogue anymore"

[wintry solar]

I was also in highschool

[hollow bloom]

It’s ok, i thought Combat was cool too.

[torpid fiber]

I'm glad that we didn't have that many people complaining that vanish resetting bte was killing the skill expression when they changed that

[fathom bramble]

we had a few

[wintry solar]

There was a few

[fathom bramble]

they were all wrong

and this is way better

[wintry solar]

So wrong

Blizz adds necessary QoL and naturally people go "DAY MADE DUH SPEC TOO EZ"

Though I don't have room to talk

But at least when I played with the new CP my mind was instantly changed.

[torpid fiber]

Tbf I think if we had consistent rules about having to use bte before vanish it would be annoying

[jolly geyser]

hope midnight has big changes,get people talking

[fathom bramble]

like 2 charges of AR

[jolly geyser]

that

remove gs

[vivid vessel]

Did we

[hollow bloom]

Toggle AR, lets goooooo

[fathom bramble]

give gs 2 charges

and make it give full CP on cast

[vivid vessel]

I remember we were already talking about that on ptr before crackshot went live

[fathom bramble]

idk I remember arguing with a few that the skillcap doesn't matter even if it is impacted since it's just better gameplay

they might've been nobodies I don't remember their names

[vivid vessel]

Fucking randoms!

I hate randoms !

[wintry solar]

I was one

Jk

[fathom bramble]

just remember to a lot of people you are a random

and so am I

[vivid vessel]

You still are popo

You still are

[jolly geyser]

popo momo

[wintry solar]

Still a bte reset hater?

Absolutely

I bet Lok was one and he's playing it off like he wasnt

[vivid vessel]

Who me?

I was one of the earliest advocate of that needing to change

[wintry solar]

No me, I was being sarcastic.

[vivid vessel]

And I'm a big "don't make my spec easier" guy

[wintry solar]

Bte reset haters obv aren't in their right minds

I hope they got they help they needed

Or got off my game. Both are fine.

[cinder haven]

[fathom bramble]

Zac also wants BTE to replace dispatch when the cooldown is available

I heard it on the wind

[cinder haven]

Why should we need more than one button really

[vivid vessel]

No

That would be crazy

[wintry solar]

You know what's crazy?

[vivid vessel]

I still think the audacity change killed ho fun

[fathom bramble]

why don't all buttons just automatically replace SS when available

[vivid vessel]

No one can change my mind

[wintry solar]

I heard Zac wants old CP and redirect back

[fathom bramble]

yeah it did

bring back good ho

I heard zac wants old old KS back and redbuff

[wintry solar]

Yeah it did

I was thinking about that earlier

[vivid vessel]

I'm r1 hater of things on target

[vivid vessel]

I actually want old ks back

I would legit rather play S2 ks

Than current one rn

[fathom bramble]

S2 trickster is better tha nthis

[vivid vessel]

It's just so bad

[cinder haven]

I feel that we’re gonna be very disappointed when the initial info on rework drops

[vivid vessel]

If what rogue got recently

Is the type of quality work we will get

[fathom bramble]

I mean I hope it's good, but honestly have very low expectations

[vivid vessel]

I would rather we get nothing

[wintry solar]

Yeah for sure, I think multiple people, myself included, hyped themselves up too much.

[vivid vessel]

And it's crazy cause idk

There is so many cool stuffs you could do with this spec

Idk

[wintry solar]

The fdk rework was solid

[fathom bramble]

I wouldn't mind if all 4 of our apex talents are just terrible and undertuned

so we can just put the 4 points in the main tree

[wintry solar]

I want to experience ho/kir

Even if it's not good, I'll play it in a delve

[vivid vessel]

No!

Fuck ho

[wintry solar]

You can play anything in a delve

[vivid vessel]

Ok lok listen

What if

[fathom bramble]

or no ho and you just take cleave talents 2fth and 2 take em

[vivid vessel]

Hear me out right

We rework audacity and ho

[wintry solar]

To?

[vivid vessel]

So that instead it just make your ss give double cp

[wintry solar]

Why not just make ambush good without making it expensive?

[vivid vessel]

Like in stealth and audacity proc I mean

Not just always

[ebon reef]

How long should you be holding KS for i.e. right before adds or just send asap when out of subterfuge

Doesn't feel right to hold

[vivid vessel]

I have a deep hatred toward ambush animation on outlaw

It's too slow idk

[fathom bramble]

I had this thought after they made SS automatically change to ambush

[vivid vessel]

[fathom bramble]

there's no real reason to have ambush in the game if it is going to work this way

just make SS stronger in stealth/audacity

because that is functionally what is going on already

[vivid vessel]

Right

[wintry solar]

How much is an ambush crit?

[still shard]

Let’s be real, our playerbase isn’t that big, and Blizzard doesn’t exactly treat us like a priority. At this point, I honestly doubt if there’s even a dedicated dev working on rogues — feels like it’s still a big question mark.

[fathom bramble]

I don't think any class in the game has a dedicated dev

to our knowledge the rogue dev works on DH and rogue

[cinder relic]

Every outlaw rework has ended up pretty fun for at least a bit

I'm optimistic

[wintry solar]

I personally hope it's not like df where it stopped being as fun after 4 weeks

[fathom bramble]

they would have to do something really drastic and insane to make outlaw just not fun

[wintry solar]

Then it was just alright

[wintry solar]

For sure. This is my least favorite outlaw but I still find it enjoyable.

Numbers aside ofc

[fathom bramble]

more fun than current sub for sure

[wintry solar]

That's not a high bar

[fathom bramble]

true

I just have sub on my mind

from playing it on dimmy

I feel the same way I feel like leveling in poe

it's not great out here

[wintry solar]

You know what's crazy?

[vivid vessel]

Ok right but everything we got in tww was half backed, non functional, filled with non sensical frictions or straight up bad

Dw was good but that was before

So idk

[wintry solar]

I don't even know specifically what I want from Outlaw. I just want the problems ironed out.

[fathom bramble]

2 charges of AR

[cinder relic]

I'm going to choose to be optimistic

[vivid vessel]

If we get df real back

[wintry solar]

My bar for outlaw is vanish not as loaded and it being fun in pvp again.

[vivid vessel]

I'm optimistic

[wintry solar]

So my bar is insanely low

[vivid vessel]

Otherwise I'm fully dooming

[fathom bramble]

load vanish more and make AR a given

[vivid vessel]

ye

Fuck the vanish haters

Put supercharger on vanish

[wintry solar]

Let me rephrase

Make subterfuge less loaded

[hollow bloom]

RtB is automatic?

Not sure if i vibe with RtB rng yet.

[vivid vessel]

Wouldn't mind nuking the button and just relying on big CTO and kir

[fathom bramble]

Sneaky Opportunity: Casting Vanish or exiting stealth causes your next X sinister strikes to be guaranteed to strike twice
Quiet adrenaline: Casting vanish grants 3/6(2 pointer) seconds of adrenaline rush
Preparation: Vanish and Adrenaline rush both have an additional charge, and grant x% damage for 10 seconds when activated. Multiple applications may overlap.

[fluid iron]

Same. Buff sub rogue

[wintry solar]

Me when I love making downtime worse

[vivid vessel]

Fuck you stealthi and your op spec

[fluid iron]

Hater

[wintry solar]

Zac a hater? No way

[fluid iron]

Ive done nothing wrong

[strong halo]

Ok but as it stand I think outlaw is super fun, just the dmg profile needs to be fixed

[fluid iron]

Catching strays out here

[wintry solar]

I loathe uhuh with every fiber of my being

Absolutely the worst addition to outlaw ever

[fluid iron]

While the real opps are out there still (mage/hunter)

[wintry solar]

I'd take sepsis over uhuh

[buoyant cosmos]

What if kir was a passive and you always roll +1 buff until you hit six then it restarts, reduce buff duration and rtb CD?

[vivid vessel]

Lame

Just a long buildup

Till again

Always the Ame

Meh

I like CTO kiring

It's fun

And I see 0 issues with it

If you just fix the containers bugs

Or straight up remove the rtb button

So bugs don't exist anymore

[hollow bloom]

They are definitely removing the button.

[devout garden]

"I did not played outlaw in my entire life but they should remove rtb"

[wintry solar]

There's not a good argument to delete it

Simple as

[vivid vessel]

Well the buffs no

The button

I wouldn't care

[wintry solar]

I hope they add a second charge of roll the bones

Just out of spite

[devout garden]

I really hope we get anti RNG talents for SS. Like wits or something like Lok typed earlier.

Its not that common but sometimes rng just sucks tbh

[wintry solar]

I'm not really against the removal of rtb and it's buffs but I'd really prefer if they didn't.

I'd have to see how it plays without it

[dawn talon]

we don't need it to be a talent

[wintry solar]

That's a change I can't decide if I like or not just by reading it

[dawn talon]

things like intuition for arcane have built in bad luck protection

as a matter of fact, every similarly rotationally impactful effect added in the past 5 years has it

[wintry solar]

The fire mage thing

[dawn talon]

i have no idea why we don't

[wintry solar]

Hot streak?

[dawn talon]

well that is a talent but it's like

not massively impactful

and also usually sucks

unless everything else really, really sucks

[cinder relic]

idt raging blow has anything like that

ig its not "rotationally impactful" in the same way

[wintry solar]

I mean the blp for the fireball crits

[dawn talon]

yeah, if intution didn't have bad luck protection you'd have 'dry spells' where your arcane tempo drops and your spec doesn't work

which is exactly what happens to outlaw lol

[wintry solar]

Imagine we get a button that gives an opp proc

Cool man

Thinking about midnight makes my tummy hurt

[minor trellis]

yoooo that's actually smart. i have regular step and focus step where i mouseover focus, but i have encountered that sort of ambiguity when trying to mouseover -> focus and its not clear if my mouse is hovering a player or a hostile mob. i appreciate this

[vivid vessel]

[strong halo]

I gave Zac the idea to shadow step mid stream

So his dimi kill is basically all me

[vivid vessel]

The flag step?

Or the step on people

Either way ty cuh

[strong halo]

The step, then someone else had the idea to make it friendly only

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Good one

It's something I had thought for a long time

But idk

Never got to it

It's so op tho

I wish you could grapple @ something

Ngl

Would be insane

Grapple @ target would go crazy ..

Blizzard ..

[strong halo]

It’s kinda stressful I imagine wrong timing and pooof

And the facing

[vivid vessel]

[strong halo]

I swear to god Zac I could tell on stream you hard focused angle for like 0.5 seconds every time you stepped

https://tenor.com/view/sweating-nervous-paranoid-gif-4974019

[dapper fjord]

how many catalyst charges have yall gotten so far? im on an alt and i swear ive only used 2 and i dont have any left. feel like i should have more

[strong halo]

You can track in currency now I think

[dapper fjord]

dont see it, thats for sparks i believe

[verbal herald]

might be annoying to install an addon for it but savedinstances tracks it

[dapper fjord]

ive got it installed and i see the long list of currencies but i dont see the charges on there

[mighty pivot]

/run local n=(C_CurrencyInfo.GetCurrencyInfo(3269).quantity or 0)print(string.format("You have %d Ethereal Voidsplinters Available",n,(n==1)and""or"s"))

[verbal herald]

huh, maybe I was misremembering, my bad

[dapper fjord]

yeah says zero

@ ninjarobot

but ive only used 2, possibly 3

is that really the max amount right now? i swear ive used at least 4 on my main

[verbal herald]

I think we might be at 3 weekly + 1 from 2k

[mighty pivot]

I believe so too, if you don't have the 2k one it should be 3

[dapper fjord]

well fuck, i guess i was drunk or something and used a charge on piece of gear from raid finder

that blows

[proven ocean]

?

[mighty pivot]

there is a new one next reset no biggie

[dapper fjord]

when i ran the command ninjarobot sent, it told me i had zero ethereal voidsplinters, which i knew already

[proven ocean]

What do i have to do with ethereal voidsplinters

[dapper fjord]

thats a catalyst charge

for converting items into tier

[proven ocean]

aa

I see

Thought u meant me no cappy

[dapper fjord]

everything isnt about you

jk jk im sorry lmao

[vague cape]

ay gang

is fury better than ol atm

[dapper fjord]

yeah i think so

[proven ocean]

Is anything isn’t better than outlaw

[vague cape]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-price-gif-11163798864566121593

[dapper fjord]

also the character im talking about is a prot paladin, this isnt the right channel for my questions but outlaw rogue is my home

i come here first

[mighty pivot]

straight to jail

[wintry solar]

!ban @dapper fjord

[craggy stirrup]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[vivid vessel]

in p3 i was really focused in general

like on living

it mayeb doesnt look like it on stream

but i think p3 dimmy is the hardest wow i ever played

or like

Mechanically tense

You can't make one step the wrong way

There is so little space to move

@proven ocean btw cuh

thoughts

[proven ocean]

Cheating

[vivid vessel]

I still have some to spend

• reclear coming

[proven ocean]

I can have that ilvl too zac actually

[vivid vessel]

Also zeross

You know the gilded achievement

I have it

[proven ocean]

If i buy ring and belt this week i think im almost 719

[vivid vessel]

So the belt and neck are costing me 10 per level

[proven ocean]

What ilvl does it require

[vivid vessel]

Instead of 15