outlaw

[wintry solar]

I just want to know if outlaw is going in a direction I like

[ocean lodge]

I'm really interested in the world tier thing though

Potentially cool idea, potentially super fucking annoying

[gaunt phoenix]

you very much need to use vanish to keep adrenaline rush active, that's like outlaw's whole thing

also kir does get bte resets

[robust berry]

Gotcha

[fathom bramble]

for sure

apex talents may do something insanely evil

[wintry solar]

Gonna load vanish even more

[ember goblet]

tryna get into 15's as outlaw is like a nightmare

[toxic gate]

just trying outlaw a bit, hitting a ST dummy what should I expect for sustained DPS around 710 ilvl not really ideal gear and stuff yet

[torpid heath]

soulbinder not fun anymore

[gaunt phoenix]

not sure, can sim target dummy

[stiff vector]

Tank DPS (semi srs)

[elder phoenix]

so sleight and no selight builds are relatively the same dps

for me

but idk which one would be better for fights tbh

[gaunt phoenix]

sleight is highroll

[elder phoenix]

Wym

[gaunt phoenix]

you pray for 5 buffs

[toxic gate]

oh yeah, forgot about the target dummy sims

[elder phoenix]

sim wise 5 min fight they just have similar dps

[frail veldt]

Sleight is also container bug 😉

Works great

[elder phoenix]

so it only looks good in sims?

[toxic gate]

so trying to understand KS rules, just pretty much on CD outside of AR windows? let it cast the whole way or cancel it?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes but that's the average over a million billion pulls

on average they are similar, but sleight is literally more highroll

sleight has the potential to do much more dps on a pull by pull basis because of rng

[frail veldt]

I think sleight has better recovery from bad luck or low rolling

That's why I play it

Feels more consistent imo

@gaunt phoenix is there a big stdev change in DPS between sleight and no sleight builds?

[strong halo]

Ewww prbly shoulders tbh

Can we convert belt again? I forgot if we can and stats

[haughty moat]

you can buy a boe

[next wedge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Xp9QgynmHcvTVb8K?fight=20&type=damage-done

why cant i do any damage

[gaunt phoenix]

idkj

still need to change the apl a bit

[frail veldt]

Oh ye forgot

[visual trout]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[next wedge]

is bubbling wax good?

my guild is saying its bis but

idk

[torpid fiber]

!wax

[ornate heath]

Bubbling wax:

• Can be pickpocketed from kobolds in e.g. The Ringing Deeps. (needs The Final Candle questline completed.)
• Only use it on one weapon. (does not stack)

[torpid fiber]

that doesn't help

[cinder relic]

wax is good

[quick scaffold]

can someone look at my logs and tell me what im doing wrong https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Gc4TL8zqamDdPxYt?fight=30&type=damage-done

[frail veldt]

Use the !log command and someone will peruse when they can

[fathom bramble]

wax is bis

it scales with your mainhand ilvl and has now outscaled our other stuff

[smoky lotus]

here I go pickpocketing again...

[gaunt phoenix]

can fix the opener

[thorny zinc]

is this for just ST or aoe now as well

[gaunt phoenix]

prepull rtb WAY before pull for supercharger

/cast Adrenaline Rush
/cast Ghostly Strike```
then open with this into RTB

this gets you 6 of both coins cause bug

you kinda screwed your potential to KIR asap by pre rolling 1 buff

[fathom bramble]

unsure

definitely for ST and dslice

idk if mass aoe makes it lose

[tiny bloom]

this may be a dumb question but for Trickster 4-set, for the second Coup de Grace, we still have to build up combo points for max dmg, right? its not like we can hit Coup back to back

[torpid fiber]

there's minmaxes

[stiff vector]

love dying because killing spree for s ome reason fucking slows yourself and I didnt have sprint up

like why in the actual fuck

does this dogshit ass ability

fucking slwo you

[torpid fiber]

tl;dr is you try to build to coup but only with non-sinister strike buttons
If you'd build to coup with sinister strike ever, instead you send coup even at low combo points

This is really hard to wrap your head around at first because it breaks the standard paradigm of "build at low cp, finish at high cp"

you suddenly have different builder prios depending on your finisher

[frail veldt]

Oh whaaaaat

Even on the bosses with ads?

I thought it left a pool so if bosses move it doesn't do as much

[tiny bloom]

thanks! ill try and practice it

[torpid fiber]

there's
#1276308344813916261 message

[fathom bramble]

the damage is dealt instantly in a small area around the mob

the pool is just flavor/animation

[frail veldt]

Aaaaaaah

So is this also bis for m+???

Have I been trolling

[fathom bramble]

maybe

[frail veldt]

And wasting gold

[fathom bramble]

I'm not a key doer

it takes so much longer to collect wax than it takes to buy whetstones

[frail veldt]

It's not that bad

[craggy quiver]

[clear venture]

Wax drops off the goblins in undermine

just go to a darkfuse wq spot

and get like a stack in 5 minutes

[fallen mural]

out of curiousity im going to be at nearly 27000 verse unbuffed is there a point where it's too much?

[humble iron]

If I roll the bones and get broadside and true bearing then decide to KIR, can I then roll broadside/true bearing on my next roll the bones OR does it cause me to be unable to do that?

[gaunt phoenix]

not necessarily unless you only have like 6000 crit

[fallen mural]

once i craft the belt i should be sitting at around 10,000 crit with 27000ish verse and 19% haste

[gaunt phoenix]

thats normal

[fallen mural]

Thanks 🙂

[gaunt phoenix]

you can still roll the same buffs you already have

[quaint mauve]

everyone in this key was a GAMER man

i feel like my dmg is kinda mid for no deaths tho

[fallen mural]

which key?

[quaint mauve]

priory 14

0 deaths 5 mins remaining\

felt good

[stiff vector]

wth im guessing something is bugged about the resil achiev

since I just got 16 resil and my last 16 was supposed to be priory

[still shard]

Is it still worthwhile to switch weapons during single target and AOE situations?

[quaint mauve]

depends

its still technically optimal on 8+

if u have the higher ilvl cudgel

[stiff vector]

also how tf do I gap the dev evoker and DK on first 2 bosses in ara with just warr/sham buff

I mean we timed the key but

[next wedge]

!log

[stiff vector]

get gapped by an outlaw on boss dmg is kind of some big yikes

[quaint mauve]

i beat a mm hunter on all bosses in halls the other day

it’s like come on man….

[rich moon]

okay I've got a question about an opener, should I use vanish as soon as my first subterfuge ends or use KS first?

[still shard]

got it

[gaunt phoenix]

for trickster, for sure KS

[stiff vector]

also holy fuck, I knew my ace rng felt pretty awful for like 5 min straight in the middle of the key but..523 BTEs in the key, 58 RTB(lets say prob 75% of the 118 SC charges were used on BtE) and I only had like 190 ace procs.

[gaunt phoenix]

for fatebound, technically KS but it's not a big deal

[stiff vector]

that is some fucking abysmal ace rng i swear to god

[gaunt phoenix]

if you can Vanish+GS then you can choose to not let KS delay that

unless you are in the shitter for energy

[rich moon]

ty

[civic zephyr]

!snd

!bug

[ornate heath]

[Outlaw bug Thread](#1276315296159760467 message)

[civic zephyr]

ok so i watched zac use /cancelaura slice and dice
/cast slice and dice

is this important?

how much of a dps gain is this

[lime lake]

billions

[strong halo]

15-20% it’s insane. And the only reason he does more than me

[civic zephyr]

why isnt this in the advanced rotation?

kinda troll?

[strong halo]

Zac tries hard to hide it from rest of us

[strong halo]

0.2% and you’re more likely to mess up and lose dps then actually gain from it

Is the real answer

[civic zephyr]

!sndbug

[ornate heath]

There is once again a bug that lets you spam Slice and Dice during downtime for CDR. It works by causing SnD to refund CPs as if it benefits from Supercharger.

To activate the bug have to consume Supercharger once normally with RTB > finisher, and then SnD will bug out until your next damaging finisher, so you can spam a cancelaura macro while it is bugged. From 1CP, SnD will have an 80% chance to refund CPs so you can't spam it forever. To activate it between pulls, you have to delay RTB until towards the end of the pack. This can mean that trying to activate the bug can cost you more dps than it's worth.

The bug is not a secret to 11 million overalls, it can mostly just help you get AR back through periods of forced downtime.

/cast Slice and Dice```

[frail veldt]

0.0000000000001%

[strong halo]

If Zac didn’t use bug, I would have bigger io smh

[civic zephyr]

wait so supercharger - if im in subterfuge, do i spend at 3 combo points since supercharger will = 5?

based off this rule

[quaint mauve]

could save u from dropping adr but…..

[quaint mauve]

no

[civic zephyr]

ok so ill spend at 5 regardless of supercharger or not

ill just ignore supercharger

[strong halo]

I’m not sure I even track supercharger

Am I trolling?

[quaint mauve]

yeah

[quaint mauve]

i don’t either

tbf

you’re going to most likely spend it on bte

regardless if you’re tracking it or not

so

[civic zephyr]

also a few more questions is spellqueing impactful? and how important is it to track certain buffs vs the number buffs, and how important is tracking or understanding the container buff

[strong halo]

Like I wouldn’t vanish based on supercharger so idk how I would even optimize for it

[quaint mauve]

i should read abilities more often man lol

i recently found found evasion goes does with restless blades

like 3 days ago

and it’s made life so much easier

[fathom bramble]

wait until you find out that it actually gives 200% dodge chance

this is literally never relevant

[strong halo]

Wym??

[quaint mauve]

i was pushing keys feeling so squishy

[random geyser]

!log

[quaint mauve]

not realizing i could basically have infinite evasion uptime xd

[quaint mauve]

evasion receives cdr for finishers too

[stiff vector]

nah, I dont track it at all, dont need more frivilous shit crowding up the screen when theres already plenty for outlaw to keep track of. I just know when I roll, and I know I want to ideally spend them on BTE so I try to roll before entering vanish window if I can help it

[strong halo]

Oh yeah true but you can also have feint perma reduce dmg

[quaint mauve]

it’s like not even a thought for me

i do usually rtb right b4 vanish subconsciously

[strong halo]

Even without feint talent we are super tankie imo

[stiff vector]

in priory Im legit slamming feint/evasion

[strong halo]

I prefer the cheat death in HoA tho

[strong halo]

It’s so good on clap, paladins etc. in that key super predictable dmg

[stiff vector]

in one of the priorys the other night I looked at my dmg taken and I had WAY less dmg taken than my DH and warr(altho theyre obv also healing for much more than me), I think it said I mitigated 44% of dmg in the entire key

[keen belfry]

literaelly 0

[stiff vector]

and I mean fury warr is rly tanky so having that much less dmg taken than him is kinda surprising

[quaint mauve]

i had like 100% uptime on evasion on every paladin pull today

i also was 6 buffs that whole room

[tight kernel]

is saladbar doable as outlaw

[quaint mauve]

just to still get gapped by fdk hdh

[strong halo]

Someone did because there’s a log I think

4 logs actually

[quaint mauve]

sub feels so easy on that fight and cd timers line up so well

so what’s the point

….

[strong halo]

Zac and lok working overtime to get us buffed

This is salad bar mythic

[quaint mauve]

did zac play ol on it?

that fight seems so anti ol

i didn’t even attempt

[strong halo]

He progged sub and recleared it outlaw this week

[civic zephyr]

also if you pull mobs onto big momma, do the extra adds get affected w/ cudgel vanish resets?

cause i think the mobs that big moma spawns only get affected once

[craggy quiver]

bad seed

🙁

[livid pewter]

as i know, they dont, everytime u enter a bossfight u cant get "out of combat" with vanish, thats kinda why cudgel doesnt reset and proc again

[fathom bramble]

sometimes it works on extra non-boss mobs

during a boss fight

[strong halo]

Prbly not worth on momma

[quaint mauve]

hmm i’d have to see it in log

[quaint mauve]

you’d be able to vanish swap after extra mobs die

[strong halo]

Oh I forgot how cudgel works. It’s essentially a slam, so if it works on extra mobs it hits boss too

[civic zephyr]

ok ty

[stiff vector]

they need to nerf big momma imo, they overdid it with her hp compared to how much time you actually have dmg amp on her

[frail veldt]

ugh

[stiff vector]

o7

never lucky

[strong halo]

Floodgate might actually be hardest key now

[frail veldt]

also wtf is this

debuffs but nothing shows up on mouseover?

[lime lake]

yeah its annoying as fuck

sometimes they just randomly decide to show up during nightfall

[fathom bramble]

those are usually flags for some mechanic in the event to track participation

they are suppose to be hidden but sometimes blizzard messes up

there was a similar gear thing a very long time ago that you could actually click off if it happened to erroneously show allowing for the repeated looting of an event chest

[cinder haven]

Did you open as outlaw? Not sure if it matters

[frail veldt]

I did yeah

[gaunt phoenix]

i guess it doesnt matter then

the more you know

[cinder haven]

Good to know thanks

[frail veldt]

Do you have to open the bountiful chest to get the random rep from a delve

[cinder haven]

Yes I think so

And no, I could never figure out if you can somehow predict what rep you would get

[hallow crow]

Insane biss weapon from weekly world quest

😂

[gaunt phoenix]

at least it's not like oppressively strong

just a cute thing

[frail veldt]

yeah honestly im lowkey glad each time I dont get it

cuz I hated weapon swapping

feels like a chore

[still matrix]

Mythic warpclaw or hc antenna...

There is only 1 answer

[tender wedge]

Socket

[quaint mauve]

bro im not even doing the nightfall shit

100% chance i don’t get it

saving my self the mental strain

[stiff vector]

ye I think thats enough rogue keys for me today

my rng is like fucking GIGA cursed today or something, never just straight dropped ADR so many times in my life purely from terrible rolls+ace procs

[quaint mauve]

i drained ur rng

im on like perma 6 buffs rn

[stiff vector]

its actually crazy how terrible my rng was in that ecodome

was literally chain dropping ADR at some points of the key and it was a SS spam fest, like Idek man

this speci s just unbearable sometimes between low rolling and generally being tuned like complete dogshit

but I mean I guess im trolling myself as well pugging a 17 without warr or monk buff

[quaint mauve]

playing WITHOUT monk

ig im lucky i only do keys with my brewmaster friend

[stiff vector]

I mean, dude invited ret pally+guardian, when we had outlaw/bm/rsham...like tf

like just invite a fury instead of a ret and we time the key

also kind of gigatrolling pulling 5 pactspeakers but

[wintry solar]

when Solo said 5 hours, he obviously meant 5 weeks

[upper hazel]

Ara Ara trinket is bad for us, or? Got it on myth

[cinder haven]

I had a similar experience yesterday, something felt off

Idk if it was just bad luck or if something changed or whatever

I was trying to not cancel ks in those keys, could be that I guess

[unborn aspen]

Why you need monk in the group ?

[wintry solar]

Phys dmg buff

You don't need it until later keys though

I hope the outlaw rework extends past gameplay and goes into stats as well. I'd like to have a good stat and not a stat that sucks the least.

[stiff vector]

ye I mean, the spec is ass it is, I should really stop applying to 17+ keys if theres no monk or warr in them tbh its kind of hard trolling

[frail veldt]

luckily phys comps are pretty popular rn

[cinder haven]

If we become haste mastery we’ll be much less tanky tho

[frail veldt]

I mean if these wclogs changes go through I think there might be a chance for a buff

[frail veldt]

yeah we will

but we will still be very tanky

relative to other specs

[cinder haven]

Losing 20% DR will hurt

[frail veldt]

it will yeah

Its entirely possible vers stays decent

and we can run like 20% vers

[cinder haven]

We will be tanky vs aoe damage

[frail veldt]

yeah we die to dots af

[cinder haven]

Gotta be dwarf

[frail veldt]

maybe they take vial off the gcd haha

fuck dwarf

ill die NE

before I go dwarf

[cinder haven]

Dwarf racial is silly good

[stiff vector]

eh not really tbh. Still pretty rare to see full phys in 16-17 lfg

I swear its pretty rare that I actually have both warr and monk buff

[fathom bramble]

new race will save us all from dwarf/tauren soon

[stiff vector]

its usually just like warr+sham or druid buff. DK/havoc/mage/hunter is just like 90% of what you see in high keys rn

[cinder haven]

Warrior and shammy being very common is kinda propping us up

I don’t like how big impact raid buffs have on m+ though

[stiff vector]

I fucking absolutely hate it man

it is so annoying

[frail veldt]

compared to prev seasons I guess I mean

I see monk and war everywhere

[fathom bramble]

yeah they just need to disable them in keys somehow

or add consumables that grant them

[frail veldt]

saaaaaaame

[cinder haven]

Yeah something

But they’ll get there i think

M+ has been moving in the right direction at least recently

It’s the best it’s ever been now imo

[quaint mauve]

i only use it during KS

otherwise it feels like shit

[frail veldt]

I learned recently that its a hasted gcd

for some reason

[fathom bramble]

if it's going to cost a gcd it has to be way better

[frail veldt]

so when heros up its like a 0.6s gcd

[quaint mauve]

make it a cleanse heh…..

hehehe….

[frail veldt]

its not even on RB is it?

[frail veldt]

that would be hellllla good

[fathom bramble]

yeah it's not on RB

or float

[frail veldt]

should at least be on float

[fathom bramble]

I feel like having it up more doesn't really fix the problem when it feels so bad to press

[frail veldt]

fair

[fathom bramble]

leaving it at 30 seconds is fine if they make it actually do tangible healing instantly imo

[frail veldt]

I press it every KS as it is

p much

[bright crane]

fml

[frail veldt]

honestly make it 2 min, put it on RB, and make it cleanse

huge

[fathom bramble]

I was also kind of surprised we didn't get a talent that automatically uses it at low hp

[bright crane]

he immediatly started auctioning it

[fathom bramble]

when a ton of other classes have that for their self healing

[frail veldt]

that would be nice

[frail veldt]

ofc lol

[stuck sparrow]

auctioning heroic loot

this late is diabolical

[frail veldt]

people pay big money for that

I see boots go for hella

[bright crane]

i got whispered for 800k

[stuck sparrow]

no shot its better than mythic pace

[bright crane]

before the other guy rolled

[frail veldt]

it is

mythic pace lowkey sucks

[next wedge]

jesus

[stuck sparrow]

Sims better unless you do no miss

for me

[frail veldt]

I had it the opposite

[fallen mural]

Do you guys bind BtE's to Vanish?

[frail veldt]

and tbh checking my lgos I dont miss very often

I have like 10% miss

[frail veldt]

nope

you could if you want ig but then you couldnt play fatebound correctly

[fallen mural]

oh sorry i meant for trickster in M+

[stuck sparrow]

maybe outlaw likes it more

[frail veldt]

hate when youre down to your last 2 resil keys

and theres just no fucking listings

[torpid fiber]

nah, vanish has uses where you don't want to bte

[frail veldt]

I mean barely

only when you vanish for adr

[torpid fiber]

(Also I don't trust the game to make the macro consistently work ngl)

[frail veldt]

I feel like that isnt as common anymore in keys

[frail veldt]

thats the big one for me lol

like I fully expect it to somehow not trigger crackshot

[fallen mural]

hahaha

true

[torpid fiber]

Comes up in solo content sometimes and yeah the rare situation where you're vanishing on a boss phase change or whatever

[frail veldt]

oh true forgot about the latter

like last boss of gambit

you can sit in vanish

for the whole arrows

[torpid fiber]

ya

[fallen mural]

same with orb on first boss gambit

waiting for pugs to figure out how to run to their section haha

[frail veldt]

ah I just hit boss

id rather be hitting something that has 99% damage reduction

than sitting in vanish

[vivid vessel]

fuck i got nothing in vault

i wonder if its better to take a socket or take a 717 to save 15 crests just for ilvl

[frail veldt]

for suuuure socket

who cares if you save 15 crests

[vivid vessel]

less fun

tho

[frail veldt]

you get a few ilvl on one piece a little earlier than other people

[vivid vessel]

and im almost full gear

[fathom bramble]

15 crests might be stronger than a socket

[vivid vessel]

socket can be every week

[fathom bramble]

sockets are so hilariously bad rn

[vivid vessel]

ye

also getting ilvl is fun bro ..

[torpid fiber]

15 crests OP for turboboost prep frfr

[frail veldt]

yall wild

sockets are crit damage

[fathom bramble]

you have 6 sockets by default

[cinder haven]

?

[vivid vessel]

Like just get more ilvl bro ..

[fathom bramble]

your crit damage should be saturated at all times

[cinder haven]

oh it's emissary of war week

way too late to be useful

[frail veldt]

wdym

is there a cap?

[fathom bramble]

you get crit damage for each different color you have equipped

[frail veldt]

ah ye

good point

only 6 gems

[cinder haven]

hmm, shoulders for catalyst next week or sub amulet

[quaint mauve]

agreed

[cinder haven]

but I aint gonna play sub I guess

[stiff vector]

tbh myth raid vault is like hilariously OP thistier

the crest advantage alone is massive

[fallen mural]

i'd go ilvl, you can get sockets on pieces in the vault in the next couple weeks, i've always wasted sockets in the past but ilvl is never wasted early in season

i went ilvl this week instead of socket. but also piece works for sub if i ever choose to try it

[cedar kernel]

wait does coin give glided crest?

shouldnt it just only rune in turbo

[vivid vessel]

Fuck I think I need to buy the ring if I wanna spend the gilded before raid Monday without risking losing gilded

Hm

It's hard trying to be 100% efficient

[uncut ginkgo]

I win delves?

[vivid vessel]

Raiding end of week early on is kinda cringe I guess

[frail veldt]

Me when I list my key and just stare at the applicants

https://youtu.be/ARDhJ2dpuYU?t=26

[vivid vessel]

Take me in mewo

[frail veldt]

I would

I dont even need this 15 Im just tired of applying to my last 2 resils so im ready to just run it down

idk why when you accept a duo applicant it unlists your key

[vivid vessel]

Maybe I should buy a shitter stated ring for now and get the full vers one later in the season

Sht still cost 5 mil

[cinder haven]

hmm, since vial is off gcd during KS, I guess we can technically macro it into all our other finishers with [channeling]?

wonder if it will work

[vague cape]

wouldn't it be better to just use it seperately while in ks anyway

[cinder haven]

it gives us something to do while channeling I guess

[vague cape]

or is this more an excersize in seeing if it works

[cinder haven]

yeah

for science

macroing it into KS doesn't work for whatever reason

[quaint mauve]

would you accept me

im higher io than the plebeians there

except that dk

[cinder haven]

it seems to work, sometimes

way too iffy to be useful

[quaint mauve]

vial would immediately become an actual button if it was a poison or even bleed cleanse

doesn’t fury have that

[vale warren]

Yeah warrior has a 20% heal + poison disease curse cleanse on a 3min cd

[cinder haven]

what if it gave you a little bit of energy instead of costing energy?

at least we use it now with this KS change

otherwise I only pressed it if I had a nasty dot on me or something

[vale warren]

Off gcd no energy cost affected by float like a butterfly

[cinder haven]

I wonder if it's worth crafting something this week

bracers maybe

craft bracers, buy belt angle probably

[vague cape]

i'm stuck in crafting purgatory

[vivid vessel]

Well it's better to use it manually when you need tho lol

[rotund zodiac]

What vail are we referring to? Crimson vial?

[vague cape]

too many myth items for crafting to be worth

sitting on 2 sparks

and im unsure if i even use one this week

[cinder haven]

no no, we press it every time during KS for more CPM

get with the program

[vivid vessel]

Hm

[vague cape]

highkey, just drop ks to maximise cpm

[cinder haven]

idk it feels nice to press something during ks for rythm

[frail veldt]

yes

we can double outlaw

[quaint mauve]

what other vial do we have

[cinder haven]

secret vial?

[unborn haven]

last boss ara and hook, works right?

[cinder haven]

yes

after pull

[unborn haven]

after the last big pull in? doesnt the damage come instantly after that?

[quaint mauve]

how long are you awake

gf aggro rn

[buoyant cosmos]

Yeah they changed it so it'll cancel the hook if you don't wait til <1 second on cast

[cinder haven]

the small pull is 1 sec before damage

after that

[vivid vessel]

Always been this way

[buoyant cosmos]

It seemed like earlier in the season the second pull wouldn't stop you like a wall

Then it started to

[unborn haven]

that last pull in and the damage, small window tho. risky ;O

[cinder haven]

doing a spider delve now, I'm pretty sure KS is hitting the web eggs

[buoyant cosmos]

Uptime is worth

[cinder haven]

save cloak for poison thing

[frail veldt]

prob done for the night

but next time

I ping

[cinder haven]

with dwarf racial and cloak and hook we can ignore a lot of the mechanics, very nice

[buoyant cosmos]

Imagine playing dwarf

[cinder haven]

imagine not playing dwarf

[buoyant cosmos]

I live in a fantasy

They'll totally give blood elves their kick back, right?

[cinder haven]

idk blizzard decided that everyone has to be dwarf

not my fault

[frail veldt]

fuck dwarf

id never ruin my mogs for stoneskin

[unborn haven]

hooking out at 0.8sec remianing worked fine

ty

[plain sun]

Guys, quick offtopic question: do I swap from Sub to Outlaw? Not really enjoying Sub after swtiching from Ass x)

[rotund zodiac]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[frank finch]

@vivid vessel lets see the vault cuh

[grim spear]

just try, why ask?

[frail veldt]

were here cuz outlaws fun

not because its good though lol

[plain sun]

i've always played Outlaw before and enjoyed it the most... so I guess I'm recrafting all my shit then

[hollow creek]

What do you guys craft this week ? Dubble rings , och Waist ?

[buoyant cosmos]

Literally

[buoyant cosmos]

Great

[hollow creek]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Mouzer

Got mythic hands , or socket in vault så What would you craft ?

[lucid sandal]

[vivid vessel]

Idk it did that the whole s1

[hollow creek]

The Sims are so smal så Thats why im asking for some tips sorry

[quaint mauve]

bet bet

i have no school tomorrow

[buoyant cosmos]

Sounds like I just started hooking out too early then, I'll greed more.

[viscid forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vivid vessel]

Nothing

[quaint mauve]

how was salad on ol

[buoyant cosmos]

Was your demi reclear faster? Or did you try to keep the same timers for peoples CDs

[quasi dune]

Good Morning, wanna return to my rogue since df. does outlaw still rely on vanish and stealth during combat? didnt like that during df in keys

[cinder haven]

yes, we still use vanish rotationally

we did get some QoL in that BTE CD resets when we vanish/stealth

[quasi dune]

damn

[unborn haven]

i know i should be simming myself but SHOULD i really craft gloves? it feels kinda,, shit

[vivid vessel]

Idk I was bottoming

Was ok

[vivid vessel]

Nope we pushed

P1 I mean

We used to hold p1

Instead I think what we do is 2 mins don't resend P1 and hold for p2?

Idk

We just push early now

[mighty pivot]

what do you guys think is a better bread spread, nutella or crunchy peanutbutter?

[whole pelican]

Biscoff crunch

[mighty pivot]

that's ok too ye, but I find it a tier below

[cinder haven]

turned off hw acceleration for discord a couple of days ago, zero alt + tab wow freezes since then

[vivid vessel]

Ok

Will do

Where is that

Found it gg

[wintry solar]

Crunchy peanut butter

[mighty pivot]

you're on a roll with the W takes lately. what's wrong?

did they upgrade your AI?

[grave carbon]

why does it show the pants twice

[merry harness]

Did u have the pants added twice?

[shell fossil]

wait i got one

[worldly shale]

what the fuck bro

just what the fuck

[vivid vessel]

guys ..

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hEMt3Z9frSBCYqp88nbc55 if i buy the ring im 720 ilvl

do i do it ..

[vivid vessel]

wait this says 719

[worldly shale]

what works exacly

[vivid vessel]

i think its 720

must be diff rounding

[shell fossil]

b-b-but i almost hit 7 mil in a 10 priory its fine

[waxen scarab]

cooked?

[worldly shale]

id pay to have ur vault

[waxen scarab]

why

[worldly shale]

id take araz for sub XD

i think im socket angle

[waxen scarab]

i only play outlaw

[worldly shale]

oh no

im dumb

i dont have myth should

thought i did

wooopee

[mighty pivot]

[quaint mauve]

you need to be nerfed

[vivid vessel]

Ok I can actually be 720

I just need to get 717 belt from vault

And spend the last 15 gilded

That's crazy

Would be 720 on the dot

[merry harness]

Just decided i don't like zac anymore

[jolly geyser]

I never started

[vivid vessel]

Bro..

[jolly geyser]

Nah zac is good lad,except microwave pasta

[vivid vessel]

Bro..

[jolly geyser]

[proper veldt]

bro nah what is it

like 0.2% upgrade?

less even?

[vivid vessel]

Well the whole ordeal this week is like 1.5%

[heady gale]

is outlaw hard capped at 8 targets?

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Only spec in the game that is actually fully hard capped

Not a single other spec is like that

Even fury got soft capped stuffs

[heady gale]

🥲 ty

[torpid fiber]

Technically we have blade rush but that does 0.1 damage and isn't takeable

[vivid vessel]

Blade rush

[torpid fiber]

it doesn't really count because we can't ever take it and it doesn't do any damage but it is uncapped in theory

[vivid vessel]

Even the season when it did things

In S2 df

It did like 5% of our damage in uncapped pulls like xd

[urban sun]

Question about the Roll the bones with CTO and KiR tracking.
Does it effect much depending on if buffs are kept or not? Or do we still just reroll at <= 2 with Sleight?
Noticed you used it zac and got curious of its implications 🤔

[strong halo]

@vivid vessel did you show ur vault?

[vivid vessel]

@proper veldt https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tfTkwEFJSNMebvJ5fJ8wve 720

[vivid vessel]

Ye nothing in vault this week

It's between 15 free crests or a socket

And I'm a sucker for illv so I will just take the illvl I think

[quaint mauve]

even if they made it a soft cap

they’d find a way to fuck us

[proper veldt]

Bro what 8 mil

wtf

[strong halo]

@vivid vessel wait you recleared Dimi as sub!?!

You were supposed to save us from Warcraft logs

[cinder haven]

umm, m+ dungeons are not counting towards emissary of war?

the fuck is this change

oh it's only HOA 🙂

fun

have to be tww dungeons maybe?

[balmy topaz]

Socket bro wtf

Socket is worth more than 15 crests

[vivid vessel]

is it ..

[balmy topaz]

I mean

Sim it

Surely tho

Long run as well

[vivid vessel]

Idk I think you need a certain amount of logs for it to show in the all bosses stats

But I asked the wcl discord

And they can't really answer me apparently so

They don't know I guess

[proper veldt]

50 logs iirc

[vivid vessel]

Ye well

That's not true so

[proper veldt]

or wait is that overall idk

[vivid vessel]

That's what they told me

But it's not true

They told me you needed 50 log to show on stat of the boss

[proper veldt]

ah ye its not true

[vivid vessel]

But Nexus has 4/5 outlaw logs

And it shows

So it's fake

[proper veldt]

I mean there's one assa log on dimmi

and it shows

[vivid vessel]

Ye so

Idk

They can't answer me

I guess

[proper veldt]

maybe they outlaw haters

idk

1 assa parse is in stats so ??

[vivid vessel]

Ye

My question was more toward all bosses stats anywya

[floral compass]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vivid vessel]

But they also coulndt answer that one so

[proper veldt]

we should get an option instead of all bosses, last three cause they the ones that actually matter

then we can get wowhead post

and outlaw will be actually so far on the bottom

it'll be insane

or half half idk first 4 last 4

[vivid vessel]

I think it start showing at 1 log honestly

[proper veldt]

but then soul hunters is in

[vivid vessel]

Even in Al bosses stats

I'm ngl

Cause if you do 1 day

Logs

You won't have 50 kills on dimmy

[floral compass]

do the Delve Belt effects simm correctly?

[vivid vessel]

Yet the graph will look the same than the weekly one

[floral compass]

I see everyone running Charged Bolts on ST but Critical chain just simms higher for me even in ST with similar statweights

[worldly shale]

Another week another disappointment

[torpid fiber]

imo the split would have to be "bosses that take average guild >50 pulls" or smth

Otherwise you end up with junk data some tiers

[cinder haven]

Or blizzard could actually look at individual boss fights

Like if you care at all it’s easy to see

[torpid fiber]

Yeah

[cinder haven]

If they ever look st frac for example they should immediately understand that outlaw is undertuned

It’s not much to ask i think

But we can help with a wowhead puff piece

Explain why this should be a fight where outlaw excels

[proper veldt]

I think blizz doesnt care fr only if a wowhead article comes out then its like oh might as well please the people

and then boomie gets mentioned in the title

they get buffedf

[torpid fiber]

we gotta get the paladin discord to make an outlaw channel

[proper veldt]

outlaw is bottom in their screenshots they dont care

[delicate seal]

Better buff hunter

One of the specs wasn't played

Buff it to 7m st

[vivid vessel]

It doesn't log, so it shows bolt for everyone

[cinder haven]

We shouldn’t have to explain how the spec works to blizz tbh but maybe we do

[vivid vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j3C5seCz5p2nrthMjznjJe neutral

So I take ilvl cause ilvl is fun

Thoughts

[balmy topaz]

I guess fuck it

[strong halo]

Socket better long run

Ilvl is fake

[vivid vessel]

No?

That's not true

Because long run you take socket anywya

[cinder haven]

Ilvl is bigger epeen surely

[vivid vessel]

Like what if next week I have nothing in vault again

[strong halo]

Big true

[vivid vessel]

And this timer I can't get more illv

Like ilvl is better short term

And long term it's exactly the same

Casue I'm full gear anywya

[strong halo]

Yeah but you’ll get ilvl soon enough and sockets delayed. So I think there’s a real situation in 2-3 weeks where you would technically be better off if you had sockets

But idk depends

[vivid vessel]

No cause I will be gated by illv longer than socket imo

Because I still need to upgrade 3 slots

[cinder haven]

Has anyone gotten credit for emissary of war in m+?

[vivid vessel]

+15

Even starting from 714 that's 45 per item

So that's 90 + 45 that's + 2 resets from now

Eh I guess idk

Same shit

I will take socket in most likely every vault so

Whatever

[vivid vessel]

Sockets are piss DPS anywya

0.2% dps

Like

Idc

Ilvl is cool

You look cool

[cinder haven]

Only hoa that’s broken then maybe

[vivid vessel]

And you flex your ilvl

[proper veldt]

yeah I only ran psf and eda

[vivid vessel]

I don't see anyone flexing their sockets

You flexing your sockets buddy @strong halo ?

[proper veldt]

ok but its better to do higher damage with lower ilvl otherwise ppl will blame ur damage on ilvl cuh

[cinder haven]

I’m sure zeross would flex full sockets if he had

[floral compass]

oh lol 🤣 thanks for letting me know lmao

[proper veldt]

socket flex

[red zinc]

ive yet to see antenna/forge/prism on any of my 4 characters

5 weeks in

[cinder haven]

But it’s empty

[proper veldt]

[cinder haven]

Very fishy

[strong halo]

No. I’m weeping in sockets because bad vault. I only ilvl gains because I’m petty

[proper veldt]

I just realized I dont have a single myth gear side from tier

this season hasnt been great

[cinder haven]

Same i think

[proper veldt]

oh wait the neck but yea

[strong halo]

Shoulder catalyst they have avoidance ez

[cinder haven]

Gigaslacking with raid as usual

Only did what i had to do to get the boots

[proper veldt]

I dont even have boots

maybe this week is the week

full none leather group

[cinder haven]

Maybe you get in lootbox

[proper veldt]

true !

[cinder haven]

Hc still better than all other boots surely

[vivid vessel]

It also helps my point tho, I can say I'm bottoming damage as 720 ilvl vs 714 people

[cinder haven]

Thanks for putting in the hard work

Surely buffs soon

Any guesses on how far away .5 patch is?

[vivid vessel]

i can do this see

is that not an insane good case

[red zinc]

no need for guesses

first week of october

(oct 7th so not really first week actually my fault)

[shell fossil]

i think mythic dungeon means tww roster i got 3/4 and also did a halls

which is a returning dungeon etc

[cinder haven]

Only if the reader accepts that you are good at the game

[vivid vessel]

[subtle field]

What do you hope we get as a buff?

[vivid vessel]

You can buff outlaw as much as you want it will still be shit for keys if you don't fix ks

Unfortunate cause they won't fix that any time soon

[red zinc]

not if they aura buff 150%

[subtle field]

What is wrong with ks?

[red zinc]

[vivid vessel]

Rng targeting

Which means in big packs you are doing 15% less prio

Which translate to 15% less real damage in a lot of cases

[subtle field]

Ggs

Is that a bug, or intentional?

[vivid vessel]

Intentionally a shit design

[quaint mauve]

biggest fix would just be making it only hit main target no?

[vivid vessel]

Well ye

[subtle field]

Well bf makes it do cleave ig

So cleaving with cleave is, that what is wrong?

[quaint mauve]

and just lowkey get rid of fazed holy shit

[subtle field]

Instead of just cleaving off 1 target?

[vivid vessel]

What

You aren't hitting the main target

With ks

[quaint mauve]

prio matters, you do more dmg to ur main target

[vivid vessel]

Is what is wrong

This is something that becomes more and more an issue as keys go higher

[shell fossil]

arathi knight for example

[vivid vessel]

When you finish a pack and the miniboss is still alive

[quaint mauve]

it’s why outlaw is good in low keys

[vivid vessel]

Or the shard is still alive

Efc

[quaint mauve]

abysmal in high

[shell fossil]

it just feels so weird they didn't tweak rtb logic at all

like give us higher broadside/rp/tb procs

[subtle field]

I have been noticing that

[quaint mauve]

it’s crazy that they made the worst ability in the game , the worst ability in the game but with a new look

[subtle field]

But does that mean that ghostly strike doesnt do anything to main target during ks?

[shell fossil]

we're the red headed stepchild dps right now with how everything shook out

[quaint mauve]

if you do hit the main target it does

but random targeting

bf is pre amp dmg

[subtle field]

but does ks dmg really make that big of a differnce, you dont you send it like twice during first pull of HOA?

[quaint mauve]

so idk how that interaction works

[agile orchid]

or just do 100% damage to every target in front of you

would solve the capped aoe complaints too

[quaint mauve]

something that zac stuck , this would make it 100x worse in cases where u need to cancel it

[subtle field]

now with the stuff that you guys are talking about, do we know if blizzard is aware of these things? like the assabug has been for there for a long time, do they even know it exists?

[quaint mauve]

main target is the biggest fix

[quaint mauve]

it’s been a complaint since ptr

[subtle field]

yeah but does blizzard even know about it?

[agile orchid]

probably

they are probably restricted by time

[slate forge]

What time dude has done literally nothing for rogue the entire expansion

[cinder haven]

idk if they'll buff at all

[agile orchid]

as usual positive bugs are fixed instantly

negative bugs are left for weeks, or months

[quaint mauve]

they don’t care bc our logs look good on 2 bosses

[subtle field]

I think im on this train. Outlaw is usless AF XD, i dont see that changing

[subtle field]

yeah well, so they dont know then.

[quaint mauve]

our only hope is the wcl survey

[cinder haven]

I wish they would fix our funnel/prio/ST somehow

[quaint mauve]

they def know, im sure they’re not that clueless

[cinder haven]

but I don't really know if there is any way of doing that that doesn't require actual work

[agile orchid]

until midnight best we can hope for is aura buffs

[proper veldt]

wait guys why are hunters in 12-14 weekly keys so bad. Is this why their getting buffed wtf ?!?

[agile orchid]

or maybe they will do something most substantial in 11.2.5 or 11.2.7

[subtle field]

but if they know, why do they not change it, what so ever. Is there any good reason at all to play outlaw tbh instead of the other specs? like even assa does more dmg in phys comp

[proper veldt]

like this is worse than one button no

[subtle field]

Youre more tanky, and isnt that literally it?

[quaint mauve]

you play it if u like ol

otherwise liken

[cinder haven]

tanky and mobile

[agile orchid]

usually outlaw has good ST damage for dungeons

[cinder haven]

that's all we have going

[quaint mauve]

u don’t even play rogue lol

[agile orchid]

but this season we don't even have that anymore

[cinder haven]

well fun and fast paced too I guess

[proper veldt]

yeah I mean its kinda crazy if you look at fract like for a spec that requires the most up time in the game

if you have 100% up time

you should be topping meters

imo

[subtle field]

its fun cause i like the playstyle. But i have 5 times the apm of any other spec, yet we're getting gapped like crazy, and even in phys comp we get gapped lol

[cinder haven]

yeah fract is an important piece of evidence

[agile orchid]

it's not a secret rogue specs are tuned like shit for that fight

[proper veldt]

its not even that fight

[cinder haven]

but blizzard either doesn't look at individual fights, or the people who do don't understand that outlaw should be good on the fight

or both

[proper veldt]

in m+ I have 100% up time on 99% of bosses

[cinder haven]

probably both

[proper veldt]

and I barely beat tank

in st

[quaint mauve]

look at kyveza logs

that’s what it should look like in fract

[proper veldt]

I mean 1fth is just trolling st damage

the variance also feels so high

and then even 2fth ur prime build does the lowest st

[livid pewter]

every like restealth design and classes forced to have 500% uptime is just stupid and ruins balancing

[agile orchid]

funny thing is for fractillus you are playing the ST hero talent

and all the ST talents

and your damage is still hot garbage

[cinder haven]

we could do with some way of mitigating forced downtime

but no shot we get anything like that in TWW

[vivid vessel]

15% of your st buddy

So yes

15% less st

When our st is already 25% the st you do on fractilus with full st talents

So

[agile orchid]

yo what if in midnight they rework adrenaline rush

[cinder haven]

I have a funny cook there

[agile orchid]

when you press it you go full gunslinger

[cinder haven]

what if they replace energy with adrenaline

[agile orchid]

with increased range

[cinder haven]

and adrenaline is not timed, but charges that get used up for each skill

each gcd skill

and then you refill charges with adr and vanish

[quaint mauve]

i like how adrenaline rush works rn 😕

[wintry solar]

ditto

[agile orchid]

adding a new resource is too much work

[cinder haven]

it would be mostly the same with what I suggest I think?

just the time component removed

[proper veldt]

I was thinking that too like buff stacks of ar that get consumed but

they wont

[agile orchid]

fixing energy regen outside AR and reworking AR into a proper cooldown should be easier I think

[proper veldt]

cause you'll need weak auras

I feel like

[cinder haven]

of course they won't

[vivid vessel]

It's the best case scenario for outlaw tho, this is the best outlaw will ever look on any boss in term of boss damage

[cinder haven]

if they make it a base resource they can make a good ui for it too

but they won't

[agile orchid]

even assa which is historically the ST rogue spec is hot garbage

[spare dome]

i hate that many specs are now different color of BF

while bf is hot garbo

[agile orchid]

oh yes, giving all rogue specs BF was a mistake

[livid pewter]

adr could just be something like a ‚ragemode CD‘ for 20 sec which unlocks crackshot or w/e, get rid of all the heave cdr, and uncap outlaw - make haste scaling for high APM and balance this shid

[wintry solar]

im glad realz isnt here as often anymore

[agile orchid]

sub has no business having nimble flurry

[wintry solar]

sub has a habit of taking outlaws stuff

[agile orchid]

and for assa it would have been cooler if bleeds were your aoe

[wintry solar]

next theyll have something like "Dark Rush" and its exactly like adr

[agile orchid]

it would have been amazing if instead of caustic spatter, assa had something similar to aff lock malefic rapture

[spare dome]

I unironically think assa needs to go full poision

and we should get atleast one bleed

[vivid vessel]

I like how for the longest time people were saying outlaw uncapped would be too op cause it does st while doing AOE

[agile orchid]

when you press envenom targets affected by crimson tempest would take extra damage or something

[spare dome]

since you know

[vivid vessel]

And now

[spare dome]

slashes

open wounds

make bleed

[vivid vessel]

Every spec in the game does more than st while aoing

[spare dome]

uncapped damage from bleed?

[vivid vessel]

What a joke

[spare dome]

yes but we have PC

which is

[vivid vessel]

Trash

[spare dome]

um

[vivid vessel]

Just a normal talent in keys

Absolutely op in raid

Completely fuck over the balance

What can you do

[spare dome]

I feel like passive talent

working half the time

is a bad design

[vivid vessel]

These devs cant even tune when outlaw is normal

And then you have pc

A talent turned off half the time

Unless you are in raid

Stupid af man

Pc should soft cap bf additionally

Thoughts

[mighty pivot]

like what

[agile orchid]

just remove pc

[spare dome]

or you know

pc should work like

it adds more damage the less targets there are

to bf

[wintry solar]

bf, disarm, gouge, dreadblades, acro, etc

[spare dome]

but more damage to main target

[wintry solar]

I can keep going

[spare dome]

the more targets there are

kinda broken tho

[hoary wave]

when do you guys think some tuning will happen?

[agile orchid]

this week or next

[vivid vessel]

Bf, acro, blades got reworked to be dread blades, and ace procs

[mighty pivot]

BF they gave to all specs tbh with spatter for assa

[agile orchid]

guys I have a feeling acro is coming back in midnight

[wintry solar]

sub doesnt try to hide it

[mighty pivot]

it's just not around you for assa which is sometimes good sometimes bad

[vivid vessel]

90% of the times that's worse

Cleaving around you is such a superior concept

[spare dome]

is it?

[vivid vessel]

Well ye

You can perfectly cleave basically at all time without having to rely on tank positioning mobs

[spare dome]

I think its stupid that when you bte from range the aoe is around you

[mighty pivot]

most of the time it should be better because you have more control over where you are rather than your target

[hasty warren]

shoulders ?

[proper veldt]

why though if you bte how's ur blade flurry going to hit ranged lmao

its a blade strike around you

[hasty warren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fLKkBZWLzVfQ9kKNZ4Kyhs

egg sim better

[mighty pivot]

0,1% diff = pick whatever you want

[muted tangle]

I don't know if it's the right place for this but...
I want to create a WA and i'm kind of stuck.
I want it to play a sound when two conditions are met (And not just one of the two is okay) :
I've set my triggers, but the sound play when one is up, bim sound. How do you set for the two same triggers ?

[vivid vessel]

Wouldn't take shitter egg ngl

[wintry solar]

what are you going to be replacing last

[cinder haven]

are you low on haste or something?

don't think egg is good

[muted tangle]

I ask here cause it's for my Outlaw spec xD

[hasty warren]

19.28%

[cinder haven]

at the top of triggers there is a drop down

[vivid vessel]

In condition you can use and conditional

[hasty warren]

last ?

wdym

[vivid vessel]

Or in trigger you can chose to have it trigger when all triggers are active ye

[wintry solar]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

Instead of any

[cinder haven]

weird, what are your trinkets?

[muted tangle]

I'm gonna check that and tell you if it's okay 🙂 Thanks to you two

[hasty warren]

ye but it's myth trinket idk when I can have one again

[cinder haven]

I hate egg, it's so random

[vivid vessel]

I hate egg

The icon is ugly

[hasty warren]

kek

[cinder haven]

surely those are better wtf

now I need to look at your sim

[jolly geyser]

cachet

Play in american language

[hasty warren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fLKkBZWLzVfQ9kKNZ4Kyhs this one ?

[mighty pivot]

he is simming those against a 723 egg

[hasty warren]

yes

I shouldn't ?

[cinder haven]

but with no use for the haste it should be worse?

[vivid vessel]

Shoulders are also haste