outlaw

[quaint mauve]

we’ve been saying outlaw is weak

[dense bolt]

ok genuine question

how weak do everyone think it is

is it like a 5% buff needed

or 10%

[quaint mauve]

i think 5% lets us atleast compete with everyone else

idk

[vivid vessel]

and i think

[quaint mauve]

enough % to where prot warr doesn’t do more st than us would be nice

[vivid vessel]

blizzard devs

are as clueless

because ok im gonna be honest

idk how good survival is either ?

couldnt tell you

[cinder haven]

Outlaw spec weak, outlaw players strong

[quaint mauve]

better spot than us would be a safe answer

yoda put it higher than us on the tierlist so it must be broke

[mighty pivot]

the thing about ST is that all rogue specs seem to suffer there and Fractillus showcases that. Sub is just lucky that some fights are so ideally designed for it that sustained ST doesn't matter

they missed the mark there in general

[vivid vessel]

have they

sub seems fine ?

and assa being 1min30 would prolly work fine on last 2 bosses

if sub wasnt so good

[quaint mauve]

sub and sin compete pretty well on fract

[mighty pivot]

how? sub is dead last on fract

sub is doing great because the other fights favour it

[dense bolt]

we talking 100k diff

compared to outlaw

[quaint mauve]

i mean looking through wcl

ol and sub have basically the same numbers on that fight

so ig yeah

[mighty pivot]

yes they are close. Like on the 99th percentile this week all 3 rogue specs are bottom 5. That was my point about sustained ST. Of course sub is great on the important fights so in the end that doesn't matter

[lament flume]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vivid vessel]

the funny thing is

its the best outlaw gonna look

for boss damage

out of any boss

pure st not fucking with fatebound

100% uptime

5min kill timer

[mighty pivot]

ye it's miserable

[vivid vessel]

like if outlaw was tuned remotively ok

every tier it should top these type of fights

otherwise its just shit

[lament flume]

Is there a reason why i sim better with fatebound then trickster i doungeon slice?

[quaint mauve]

dungeon slice has a lot of pure ST in it

[daring oxide]

Will do

[inland acorn]

Link sim

[quaint mauve]

tell me exactly how to vote

[daring oxide]

Let’s get a wowhead article, it always works, like the boomkin one got boomkins buffed (just to clarify this is just a meme)

[quaint mauve]

i dont think there’s any actual issue with the sim

[vivid vessel]

vote exclude on everything ye

[lament flume]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rwrvBqFrdddkxnG3ykxGPm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oGgDozCTk7grSkiPK9xjhd

[dense bolt]

https://imgur.com/ACZVDYu look kyveza

[quaint mauve]

fb always just outsims in slice

[dense bolt]

holy schmokes

[vivid vessel]

thats what i mean

[dense bolt]

outlaw and survival topping

[vivid vessel]

100% uptime st fight

[daring oxide]

Aye

[vivid vessel]

outlaw should be topping

every tier

when its tuned remotively fine

[proven ocean]

fuck you zac

[vivid vessel]

??

fuck you ross

[dense bolt]

fuck you zacross

[proven ocean]

ty

[mighty pivot]

it's ok we are at 20% spec aura and only about 20% from the top on fract

[vivid vessel]

tahts what i mean

idk how this happened

like im

idk

like when you think about the fact outalw could get a 20% buff

and still not be good is idk

crazy to me

@gaunt phoenix are coins aura buffed even

[urban sun]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[mighty pivot]

in part I think it's just that other specs gained more. FB set is a good bonus %wise iirc but maybe it was too far behind to begin with. And FB was buffed further in PTR

[mighty pivot]

they are

[inland acorn]

that is just not true

[fossil pagoda]

guys i dont know which item to craft next : https://raider.io/de/characters/eu/malganis/Smoukinace

maybe offhand ?

[quaint mauve]

sim it

[mighty pivot]

PTR boosted the spec aura from like 6% to 20% and the coins were also increased by 17%. And ST is like this

[quaint mauve]

always the case for me idk

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

[inland acorn]

Does dslice even do like 8target and more pulls ?

[mighty pivot]

the bot should post this everytime this question comes up

[inland acorn]

Or just 5-6 target pulls

[cinder haven]

Up to like 10 or 12 iirc

Big enough pulls for outlaw at least

[inland acorn]

Is fb damage on boss enough to skew dslice in favour of FB then

[cinder haven]

Dslice includes big pulls but also smaller pulls and like idk 40% pure ST or something

Roughly speaking, the enemy sequence being simulated looks something like this:
Boss for just over 2 minutes (lust will be used for this boss)
4–6 mobs for 11–19 seconds
1–3 mobs for 26–34 seconds
4–6 mobs for 11–19seconds
1–3 mobs for 26–34 seconds
Continue alternating between large and small packs until the end of the sim
There will be variable gaps of time between trash packs

When it was introduced

[inland acorn]

19 seconds pull

[cinder haven]

Yes pulls are extremely short

Sim is only long 6 min in total

Alternatively you can try dungeon route sims

Idk if they really only go up to 6 mobs

[wintry solar]

You're tob, everyone listens to you

[mighty pivot]

if you know popo you know a dev

popo being the rogue dev would explain so many things about the state of the class

[wintry solar]

Nuh uh

I'm new

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-cat-ghoul-gif-15685393113271845735

O

[wintry solar]

Uhuh would've never existed on my watch

If you know me then you know I only like when numbers go up, so I wouldn't have nerfed.

[mighty pivot]

yes but it's your alter ego pulling the trigger on the changes

[dense bolt]

https://imgur.com/LUT9sCq yes sir

[torpid fiber]

Gz

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/kitten-fearsome-hiss-spit-fluff-gif-27025955

[hasty warren]

gg

[wintry solar]

Cursed to weapon swap

[red zinc]

very dramatic

[frank bane]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[wintry solar]

Maybe we wouldn't be in this predicament had you been more dramatic

Ever think about that?

[stuck sparrow]

crackshot is one of the better things to happen to the spec

and uuh

[worldly shale]

CRACK CRACK CRACK

[restive obsidian]

Crackshot caused the death of dreadblades and mfd. It's the worse thing that happened for outlaw.

If your build doesn't have crackshot, it's an awful build

It's the only way outlaw gets juiced up combo points currently and that's the bad part about it

[bright lodge]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[wintry solar]

Uhuh is 80% the reason outlaw is the way it is

It's existence is actually detrimental to the spec

[torpid fiber]

Dreadblades and mfd died patches before crackshot was added iirc

[wintry solar]

Same patch

[torpid fiber]

Remember that crackshot was 10.2

Huh

[restive obsidian]

No, they were removed during the patch for crackshot

[torpid fiber]

Did we have mfd/dreadblades before then

Wtf

[wintry solar]

Yes

[vivid vessel]

well

mfd

[torpid fiber]

Mfd was cool but I never liked dreadblades

[vivid vessel]

was removed with df basically

[torpid fiber]

Yeah that's what I thought

[vivid vessel]

cause it was on the same node as deeper strat

and with fth and shit

[torpid fiber]

Ahhh

[vivid vessel]

not playing deeper strat

was impossible

[torpid fiber]

Yeah you can't not play deeper strat

Shit is broken

[wintry solar]

Miss it

Would rather have mfd than 7cp

[restive obsidian]

If you take outlaw before crackshot in dragonflight and put it in dimensius fight, it's not terrible.

[wintry solar]

SL Outlaw didn't have it this bad

[vivid vessel]

well thats mostly uuuh

nothing to do with crackshot

[wintry solar]

Just sayin

[vivid vessel]

and how they gutted energy outside of adr

[stuck sparrow]

i mean i wish there was a way to pause uuh during downtime

but i think its existence is good overall

[wintry solar]

The path to hell is paved with good intentions

[stuck sparrow]

dust outlaw though

[cinder haven]

So we replace Energy with a resource called Adrenaline for outlaw only. It has charges, and as long as you have charges each skill on the gcd will consume a charge to speed up the gcd like adr does. Then pressing adr and vanish adds charges.

[stuck sparrow]

mmmm

[cinder haven]

No time based crap

[edgy phoenix]

ye make substerfuge start after first attack after vanish

not after stealth breaking

and its fixed

lmao

[cinder haven]

Some cap on charges so you can’t farm them too much

[trim hound]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8ryr89pTAzA3xSK52vBAZN
do i js go for ring and hope i get wep in vault?

[cinder haven]

Too much work to implement probably

[edgy phoenix]

ill be happy if they js increased our st

[cinder haven]

I mean the resource replacement thing would be for midnight or something

For the remainder of tww I don’t have much hope of anything except a bit of tuning

[edgy phoenix]

yeah ur right

[cinder haven]

Starting to feel like we won’t get that either though

[edgy phoenix]

but i dont expect a rogue resource rework rly

[wintry solar]

I hope they give us a choice of vanish/no vanish builds

[cinder haven]

Nah I don’t expect it either

[wintry solar]

I want my spec to work in all content

[cinder haven]

More likely if they do something like that they keep energy too

[edgy phoenix]

yeah

[cinder haven]

And implement the charges with a buff

[edgy phoenix]

as i said if it was substerfuge activating after first spell after vanish

it would be better

u could hold vanish for phases

and downtimes

[cinder haven]

Damage profile fixing seems more important tbh

[edgy phoenix]

and just continue ur thing after

[cinder haven]

But if they are doing a rework it would be nice to get some qol

[wintry solar]

Lowkey we're gonna need something drastic for that ngl. They keep tuning everything to be flatter and flatter.

[cinder haven]

Give us some funnel

[worldly sinew]

I want my to keep my defensive out of my offensive rotations. I mean you don't see DH having to drop Darkness to use shadow spells, or Warlocks having to use a Healthstone to use xyz.

[cinder haven]

Nerf PC

[vivid vessel]

?

idk if this is ragebait

but havoc is prolly the worse example

you could have taken

[worldly sinew]

Vanish. Shouldn't be in offensive rotation. It wasnt ragebait.

[edgy phoenix]

pc cucking us so hard

[vivid vessel]

they litteraly use their movement ability to do damage

my ghuy

and vanish is barely a defensive its mostly useless for 90% of situations

[edgy phoenix]

zac u playing sleight + loaded?

[wintry solar]

It's a fine opinion to have but calling vanish a defensive is weird.

[vivid vessel]

ye i am

[edgy phoenix]

does it feel any better

[vivid vessel]

ye its cool

[worldly sinew]

It is in the same sense that Feint(Hunter) is defensive. Drops Combat etc

[vivid vessel]

also vanish has always been dps

what

feign death is an actual defensive for hunters tho as far as i know

gives them dr

[edgy phoenix]

wth

[worldly sinew]

For the other 2 specs maybe, Combat never had vanish for rotation 😉

[vivid vessel]

but vanish has always been damage for outlaw

thats not true

well

idk about combat

wtf is combat

been gone for like 15 years

game has changed

[spark relic]

😆

[wintry solar]

Combat used vanish for the shitter ambush every 2 minutes

It was more a min-max thing

[worldly sinew]

Yeah.. but it wasnt really a need like subterfuge need

[wintry solar]

Vanish and subterfuge are totally different tbh

[cinder haven]

I can’t really understand people asking to get combat back tbh

[edgy phoenix]

ye subterfuge is the problem

[wintry solar]

Idc for vanish but I loathe subterfuge

[worldly sinew]

:gasp: Combat was bis

[vivid vessel]

xd

[worldly sinew]

🤯 Combat was BIS.

[cinder haven]

Combat is not a modern wow spec

[vivid vessel]

play assa bro

[worldly sinew]

Reposte. Was BIS

[edgy phoenix]

sinister evisecate spec

[vivid vessel]

eh

im blocking this guy

[wintry solar]

Sinister SnD spec

[worldly sinew]

For a hottake opinion? ouch 🙁

[vivid vessel]

ye

[wintry solar]

Dood traffic light gameplay so good dood

[edgy phoenix]

whats the bonus talents point in midnight tho

we get kir ho hybrids

?

[wintry solar]

In theory yes

But

The apex talents will be too good to not get

[edgy phoenix]

cant wait for ptr to see how that plays out

[quiet root]

i mean i wouldn't count on kir even staying in the game

[wintry solar]

Unless they make our so underwhelming that HO/KiR is just as good

Also true

I wouldn't expect a lot of current outlaw to stay tbh

[worldly sinew]

Was really hoping we'd get swapped to Midrange with all the midrange hype past year or so

[edgy phoenix]

they removed acro

[vivid vessel]

thats funny

[worldly sinew]

bring back Acro or somethin

[edgy phoenix]

no way they giving us range

[vivid vessel]

they gave us killing spree

and made that

melee range

a gun ability

[edgy phoenix]

XD

[vivid vessel]

🕉️

[red zinc]

man im a god tier ragebaiter

actually crazy

my only talent in wow

[worldly sinew]

I mean, acro was pretty midrange , it wasnt no 20 yeards .. no but

[edgy phoenix]

acro was great

[worldly sinew]

it wasnt exactly melee

[quiet root]

KS has pretty good range honestly

it's not quite ranged ability but you can stand outside of swirlies and hit the mobs surprisingly often

[worldly sinew]

Thats what Im sayin, give it 5 more yards, put acro back, boom, back to 'not exactly melee' midrange

obv with a few more.. fixes kus .. yeah

[wintry solar]

Is the Saber Slash icon still in the game?

Surely right

[edgy phoenix]

tbc weapon?

or the one zac uses for ghostly

[quiet root]

what if they gave you perma opportunity during subterfuge so you get to play the entire window at range

that would be cool imo

[edgy phoenix]

nah dont tie more shit to subterfuge

[wintry solar]

I've no idea what Zacs icons look like

I only watch him to clown on Zeross

[wintry solar]

That's not it

[wintry solar]

If they tie extended range to a button I'd rather it be it's own button rather than tied to a window

That's just me though

Like eagle but the values are different

[quiet root]

yeah fair enough

[mighty pivot]

that is saber slash wdym

[quiet root]

but at the moment subterfuge is about shooting guns as much as possible already, might as well lean into it i guess

[worldly shale]

nice spotify name

[edgy phoenix]

[wintry solar]

I'm thinking of a different icon entirely then my b

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/serbia-serbian-gif-22602338

[mighty pivot]

revealing strike maybe?

[wintry solar]

There's no telling

Not that though

[mighty pivot]

yet another popo brain mystery

[wintry solar]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-spongebob-meme-enigma-milk-patrick-star-gif-17910155379298946082

I hope we get drastic changes lowkey

[stiff vector]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-mouse-feed-hungry-food-gif-11046281

[copper radish]

hows the rerolled alts going today

[stiff vector]

I have t played wow yet td but I’m sure my hunter is gonna get giga juiced with loot td

[wintry solar]

Dk doing great ty pookie

[buoyant cosmos]

Try to get into a 2/8 M, my friend and I joined one at midnight and one shot both bosses lol

Or did you say you were progging nexus king on your hunter, idr

[stiff vector]

na lol my hunter is still rat geared he aint going anywhere near mythic last 2 anytime soon

[buoyant cosmos]

Gotcha, thought it was odd as I typed it out

[inner meadow]

hmm i need some support from the outlaw gamers here

how do i have resi 16 keys

with 15 priory

XD

[frank finch]

cuz priory is bugged

[inner meadow]

fair enough

[fossil pagoda]

!pre

[untold yarrow]

POV you are in a Heroi Lumithar

[worldly shale]

and the 1 parse mm gets the trink

pepega

[untold yarrow]

no trinket dropped

but 2x 1 parse and 1x 2 parser

impressive

[young apex]

guys whats the offhand scale? where do we rank 691 nightfall vs crafted dagger or myth dagger what about myth 1hand?

[unborn basin]

🤔

[fallow sonnet]

Yes please
More gun
Then give us the cannonballs

I still find it odd that outlaw is the vanish spam spec tho lol
But I'm concerned that if they change that I'll find it less fun to play

[split ingot]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[inland acorn]

Cudgel wins against myth OH in aoe

[jolly geyser]

I forget to switch weapons even with the wa,so sometimes I cba to use it

[mossy shell]

fake news

awang coping

[keen belfry]

logs!

rio!

proof

[vivid vessel]

[clear zephyr]

So, where is our buff? haha

[bright crane]

After the next mage rework

In s2 of midnight

Pls be patient we JUST had ks reworked

Smdh

[tired crow]

Somehow, I feel like I'm not performing well with my outlaw.
My opener is as follows: AR > RtB > BF > BtE (with full CP as often as I can use it) and SS (to build up CP) > Vanish > BtE (with full CP as often as I can use it) and SS (to build up CP) > Vanish > BtE (with full CP as often as I can use it) and SS (to build up CP) > KS (full CP) > Coup (sometimes with full CP, sometimes with little CP)

Sometimes I also make mistakes and press Coup/Dispatch in Vanish Mode when I should be pressing BtE. But at least with my playstyle, it rarely happens.

I only use KIR when I have 4 buffs, no matter what.
In MT, I sometimes do relatively good damage, but in boss fights I'm usually in third place.

[gaunt phoenix]

one thing is that killing spree does have higher priority than vanish. otherwise you lose tons of cdr on it

same with Coup. unless of course, you need to vanish immediately to not lose AR.

[tired crow]

so after BtE phase then build CP to use KS then Vanish?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[tired crow]

allright

[earnest sphinx]

this ring any good for outlaw lads

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, most people use that ring alongside crafted

[earnest sphinx]

i play sub mostly but want to try outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

one of the only vers rings in the tier

[earnest sphinx]

looks fun

[untold yarrow]

does anyone know how to fix plater not showing energy of collectors on araz

[coral onyx]

huh was feeling decent about my overall untill i just opened the stream of the #1 rank fdk/bmhunt

[mossy shell]

we all know your logs are faked awang

[frail veldt]

You don't need to be full CP for finishers

[mighty pivot]

me waiting for awang to stop being so terrified of dueling nessa

[frail veldt]

Our finish condition is 6 outside of stealth or 5 in stealth/subterfuge windows

You're probably wasting a lot of cps if you're building to full all the time

[red zinc]

Mildly interesting thing here

S1 score distrib

[vivid vessel]

ah ]

[red zinc]

S2 score distrib

[vivid vessel]

I tought it was the number of outlaw changes

across the years

[red zinc]

Resi makes it look so different

the peaks and shi

[vast current]

lmao

[red zinc]

I see you on that graph zac

[vivid vessel]

nice

which one am I

[mighty pivot]

the blue bar

[red zinc]

Man i cant draw miniscule line on my phone

Hollup

[mossy shell]

ikr

I'm waiting

[red zinc]

the biggest bar so the best player

clearly

[vivid vessel]

why is hterre 2 bars above me

[red zinc]

casual team and kira team

i would think

[vivid vessel]

ye but

[red zinc]

wait maybe you are back one more

[vivid vessel]

its only 10 io

[red zinc]

oh wait this is EU only

uh idk then

[mossy shell]

it was awang

[vivid vessel]

the whole leaderboard is eu doesnt matter

[red zinc]

i mean

10 rio on that leaderboard is a lot of space

one bar is 3 rio or somethin

i think

[vivid vessel]

gg..

[red zinc]

unc really in the third bar

washed

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

this was me

on top of the mountain

[glass mortar]

zaaaaaac

im otw home from vacation finally

hows outlaw looking with the new buffs we surely got in the week ive been away from wow

i dont see them mentioned in the pins so they must be very very new

[vivid vessel]

hm

they coming up here weran

jsut vote yes for buffs

[glass mortar]

! democracy in action!!!

its ok the night before my flight i got 691 cudgel so thats like +5-10% dps in dungeons anyway

that will make up for the lack of buffs surely

[hasty warren]

they find out the thing

[tired crow]

can i also use wowanalyzer to check how good i am at m+?

[tired crow]

so no 7 cp the most time?

[frail veldt]

if you are over 6cp outside of stealth or 5cp inside you should use a finisher and not a builder

[frail veldt]

where do I fill this out

[vivid vessel]

wcl landing page

when you are logged in

[worldly shale]

ok

yes to everything

signed

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

buffs soon

[frail veldt]

yes to all

[keen belfry]

im the goat of faking

[dawn talon]

theres no way it makes sense to remove forge from allstars nobody is doing degenerate shit

[vivid vessel]

well

there is mo much shit you can pad on

its the kind of fight that usually get yeeted

[cinder haven]

Also vote to include only one of the three on soul hunters

Can’t have that boost our overalls

[worldly shale]

funny joke

my heart is sinking

ok bought for 400k

[frail veldt]

I hope thats mythic lol

[worldly shale]

ye ofc

ahahahah

[tired crow]

i'm a bit confused... archon says haste & versa ... raid bots top gear says crit and versa... which stats are we actually going for now?

[gaunt phoenix]

The kir build wants 19% haste

then you dump the rest in mostly vers and some crit

[tired crow]

ahh okay

[gaunt phoenix]

19% is the breakpoint to cap adrenaline rush's gcd reduction after alacrity

[icy cedar]

what does Zac use to track group stops in his keys

i want that weakaura

[proper veldt]

omnicd

the addon

[icy cedar]

is that just omnicd?

[proper veldt]

yeah same as his interrupt list

[proper veldt]

https://wago.io/lVbBXUVIG

here you go

[icy cedar]

ty sir

[ocean lodge]

Imma be real

I don't even know how all star points are calculated

lmao

[vivid vessel]

Doesn't matter

If a fight is excluded it doesn't show in the general stat thing

So all the pad is gone

[agile orchid]

are you guys playing the new LD + SoH thing in m+ too, or just raid?

[vivid vessel]

yes

[worldly shale]

yes

[stiff glade]

yes

[gaunt phoenix]

no

[blissful idol]

maybe

[lethal oak]

SoH buff to 60%

[ember goblet]

I am I like it a lot actually feels nice so far

[worldly shale]

ok guys

pog?

[lethal oak]

Need more speed

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/mcqueen-gif-25874245

[ember fractal]

guys COUP DE GRACE i should alwyas use at max combo points ?

[gaunt phoenix]

No you send it early if you have to press sinister strike

to prevent wasting unseen blades

[ember fractal]

ok so cp doesnt really matters ?

[gaunt phoenix]

well you try to send them at normal cp

but not if you have to press ss

so cp does matter, but the ss rule slightly more

[kind otter]

Do the vanish rules or anything change with the LD and SoH build?

[gaunt phoenix]

no just rtb

[ember fractal]

thanks

[civic zephyr]

what if unseen blade is on CD

[tranquil folio]

Unseen blade can randomly come back on at any time. Using SS can waste a stack to the next coup at any time which is more of a waste of you keep doing it than sending it at low cp

[civic zephyr]

wow

such a small thing can change the course of your dps

[thorny reef]

wa

[ocean lodge]

gentlemen

Do I dare

[proud dust]

look at this ish

[frank finch]

[buoyant cosmos]

what's the MSRP on that thang

[flat fiber]

Hello i was just wonderong if outlaw is okish in raid or is it really bad?

[proud dust]

5.8 million doll hairs

[buoyant cosmos]

he is him

[buoyant cosmos]

bargain

[frank finch]

[vivid vessel]

outlaw would litterally be under the mage btw

doing tank damage prio

well i guess without a monk buff

it would be doing less than tank damage prolly

very balanced season

[analog fog]

😂

[vivid vessel]

bm deserved a buff

[flat fiber]

Ok so bad

[vivid vessel]

meh wahtever this season is disgusting

[flat fiber]

Il play it annyway

[frank finch]

gingi - 15.5 million i have never seen this number before

[cinder relic]

It's crazy bm and balance got a 5% buff and suddenly are some of the best specs in the game

[vivid vessel]

well bm was already

idk if you are just making a joke tho

[granite quarry]

guess we just see what ptr brings us in a few weeks lol

[worthy elm]

my bet is nothing

[frank finch]

nothinh becuase as always rogue stuff if anyting will be revealed at a later time

[granite quarry]

sounds like they want to dumb down outlaw, however the fk they are gonna do that

[fathom bramble]

BM and balance were already quite good in keys to be fair

[vivid vessel]

bm was already the best spec in the game

i find it funny

how tuning works

in wow

[cinder relic]

Balance druid is popping up on terros now

[vivid vessel]

its legit just rng

[bright crane]

AI

[vivid vessel]

balance druids are just stupid

[cinder relic]

Like, top 5 spec type shit

[worthy elm]

im finally at a point im tempting to learn sub for raid.. since outlaw just feels bad and at 5/8M i just feel like im trolling

[bright crane]

It’s done by AI

[cinder relic]

But last week it was the worst spec in raid

How does this happen

[random stirrup]

[vivid vessel]

because no one was playing balance they were all feral

[bright crane]

ChatGPT tuning

[random stirrup]

truly a mystery

[vivid vessel]

and balance players are legit handiccaped

sandbaggers

[cinder relic]

It's like when sin got a buff last szn

Just random af 7% buff

[slate forge]

Blizz has better numbers we must trust the process they know of secret outlaw build we just need to find it

[ocean lodge]

they sure love to buff the mouth breather specs.

[granite quarry]

blash rush hidden tech

[frank finch]

but when we get buffed they have to nerf our m+ output at the same time

thinking

[ocean lodge]

tfw you give sub blade flurry because fuck outlaw

[lethal oak]

[buoyant cosmos]

unhinged

but he's right

[frank finch]

i just a got a 6mi long ad on twitch

[fathom bramble]

with the nerfs you might be able to play outlaw without dragging your team down to the point of the fight being impossible

also I think guilds that get there in the future and farm kills will be much worse for sub

for whatever that's worth

damage is going to get higher and people will stop holding in a way that forces 90 seconds CDs to line up perfectly

[vivid vessel]

you wont have 1min30 cds

no cd on damage amp etc

sub players will be able to cry about their spec being bad again

[fathom bramble]

course the answer is probably to just not send on 2nd platform

and do outlaw damage on it

[random stirrup]

no you just hold the 1m30 one

you can see ppl doing this already on heroic

hold 90s, pop at 245 on plat, have for burn

piggy pad

[fathom bramble]

yeah something like that

or any other variant of not sending blades/flag before the damage amp

which will still make sub insane on the fight since by then only the last phase will really matter

[random stirrup]

it will probably end up looking better since p3 wont drag on for 3mins and youll kill shortly after damage amp

hopefully wcl takes out the bosses and outlaw gets buffed

[stuck sparrow]

double on use might not be as potent

for later ce guilds

[knotty needle]

The world if Lemix gave us Curse of The Dreadblades instead of some dumb summon demon ability or whatever that is lame

[subtle field]

when you play sleight of hand and loaded dice at the same time, do you reroll at 2 buffs?

[fallen mural]

You don't roll at all, you have ascended with unlimited rolls

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

Tho it is gamba sometimes

[brisk harbor]

!log

[stiff vector]

how cooked do you have to be to be playing the the most OP spec in the game rn, and yet somehow rogue is still living rent-free in your head. Hell I mean, even MM is better than Rogue too.

[vivid vessel]

[untold yarrow]

bruh

how is he even complaining about rogues

playing 2 button class with infinite movement and ranged

insane

[indigo token]

people act like we want to be ass

we're just as mad as you guys

[cinder relic]

Lets not post other class discords and avoid stirring the pot directly 👍

[vital venture]

I wish more ppl thought rogue is good like this guy so we'd get more invites in m+

🙂

[subtle field]

outlaw just doesnt get invites lol. I get plenty as sub and assa

[junior coral]

Spec sub and switch to outlaw lol

[subtle field]

idk if there is a single dungeon rn outlaw does better then sub and assa tbh

[vital venture]

all my keys are sub and when ure applying for ur last key for resil u really find out how much other classes are getting invited

I had 300 applies today for 17 hoa

[subtle field]

dawn is hella busted with sub, since you just have cds every pull. while that is outlaws best key, right?

[vital venture]

🥹

[indigo token]

FUCK NO

dawnbreaker sucks on outlaw

[subtle field]

why? with subterfuge you dont really loose adr uptime

[indigo token]

its fucking annoying though

[quaint mauve]

yeah i gave up on trying to play outlaw on it

im just playing sub

[vivid vessel]

i mean its an ok key but like

sub is just way better on it

[vital venture]

what about streets?

[subtle field]

might be, but the pull sized are nice for outlaw

[vital venture]

but isnt sub generally just better and thats it

[subtle field]

yeah, just having full cds every pull is kinda crazy XD

[vivid vessel]

outlaw kinda dog in street considering there is litterlay 5 bosses

and we are one of the worse st in the game

[subtle field]

sub

[vivid vessel]

type shit

[vital venture]

fair enough

[subtle field]

I just started getting a bit bored with only playing sub and assa

[stiff vector]

its alos just especially bad on at least half othe bosses too. Menagerie, why would you ever give dmg amp to outlaw, oasis Outlaw is just not good, and last boss=lots of lost uptime for outlaw so its generally terrible on Soazmi too.

[buoyant cosmos]

If you hold onto a vanish charge you can make oasis okay

since you can use the instruments and stay in stealth

but that just makes it feel better, doesn't solve the boss damage problem

[vital venture]

do u guys actually know how to keep stealth after picking up instrument

It feels random if it unstealths me or not

[buoyant cosmos]

you can ask the last person to wait until you have it and are in stealth

or just vanish if you have to

[vital venture]

not like it matters that much but still

[craggy barn]

huge

[vivid vessel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[vague cape]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-strong-buff-ripped-gif-7114424984314406744

[dull geyser]

I know its just details but damn, 96% feels good!

[safe pasture]

is there a way when using advanced sim to use a flask? need haste flask with my current build

[gaunt phoenix]

put flask=flask_of_tempered_swiftness_3 somewhere

[safe pasture]

ty 😄

[quaint mauve]

@frail veldt monk is in the works.... 620 ilvl

[torpid fiber]

620

[quaint mauve]

big things happening

big things

[torpid fiber]

Made some cute weakauras last night that are just vertical bars that show my stop/defensive cds and change colour when they're off cd and the defensives show remaining duration on the same bar

they're cute and were very easy to make which makes me happy

Might add them to my weakaura pack and turn off the default luxthos ones for those, idk

[civic zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/you-got-any-proof-stephen-tamill-south-park-s15e12-one-percent-gif-23108302

[frail veldt]

Noice same haha idk what ilvl I am though

[quaint mauve]

its fun but it feels so like weird atm

so many different buttons

ive gotten up to a 7 so far but not im having aggro issues so need gear :(

[frail veldt]

It's definitely super weird

Hella unintuitive

Also yeah brew has aggro issues in general even when geared

[quaint mauve]

you have decent snap threat in the pulls you need it with exploding keg but like

i kinda just don’t do dmg im losing aggro after settling after gathering

i wonder if i should’ve taken the veteran track tier piece or not hmmm

i had in vault i took hero ring instead bc i’ve done basically nothing on this toon since day 1 till now

[shell dust]

is the cudgel really necessary for m+? im simming my 723 weapon + 720 crafted vs 723 + 678 cudgel, on 5 and 10 targets and it just sims lower

by 200k to 300k lower

[buoyant cosmos]

It's out classed by myth OHs

Unless you get the one from the weekly bag

[torpid heath]

im pretty sure 678 is still better than Myth OH

[quaint mauve]

necessary no

but it’s nice for 8* targets

[shell dust]

i simmed it in 5/10 targets and is lower vs myth weapons

i have the one you buy not weekly

[quaint mauve]

weekly one is the good one

otherwise nah

[shell dust]

ah so i should change it till i get the good one

[quaint mauve]

mythic oh will be better than buyable cudgel

[buoyant cosmos]

The pin says hero OH was better than the 678

[quaint mauve]

imo yeah

[buoyant cosmos]

Not sure if something changed, mewo is a verified cudgel hater tho

[quaint mauve]

poco sending out his daily dose of misinformation

[quaint mauve]

i also hate it

[torpid heath]

xD

[quaint mauve]

and won’t grind for it either way

[torpid heath]

tf

[buoyant cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

I can't use it if I dont have it

[safe pasture]

whyd banshers team drop wox? anyone know

[shell dust]

alright im slapping my 720 on offhand then and forgetting about cudgel

[buoyant cosmos]

It's easier for sure

[shell dust]

i like this idea

[buoyant cosmos]

Feral better

[shell dust]

cudgel sucks

im a hater

[safe pasture]

sadge

[quaint mauve]

welcome to the club

i was so happy when i thought it was gonna be gone this season

then it came back

[vague cape]

idk if you crafted a dagger it's not really back

it doesn't beat my 720 embelish'd dagger oh#

[wintry solar]

@cinder haven do you know what's next in line behind cudgel in aoe?

[vague cape]

atleast the cudgel i got

[quaint mauve]

good thing i crafted a dagger huh

[buoyant cosmos]

Now why would an outlaw player craft a dagger 🤔

[vague cape]

https://tenor.com/view/he-doesnt-need-to-know-the-truth-tolkien-black-south-park-s16e9-raising-the-bar-gif-23109951

[quaint mauve]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[quaint mauve]

heh

this is def why

[vague cape]

kekw

[buoyant cosmos]

Totally

[vague cape]

[quaint mauve]

[buoyant cosmos]

[vague cape]

8t

[buoyant cosmos]

That's enough

-4% blade flurry btw

[vague cape]

https://tenor.com/view/cartoon-network-adventure-time-marceline-kick-kicking-gif-4864806

i wonder what people play in situations with downtime and damage amps

i wonder if this raid is amirdrassil 2.0

[buoyant cosmos]

Solitaire

[wintry solar]

I scroll instagram

[vague cape]

i wonder if the most important fights of the tier ALL have dmg amps and downtime forced

[buoyant cosmos]

Sounds like weird design, I don't think they'd do that.

[vague cape]

i wonder if there was a spec that had flurry like outlaw but did all of its damage in a nice 16s window

[buoyant cosmos]

They wouldn't make downtime align with 1.5 minute CDs either

[vague cape]

i wonder how that would make outlaw look

[buoyant cosmos]

That'd be silly

[vague cape]

yeah of course

i wonder what it would be like if sin became a 90s spec too

[buoyant cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/morning-gif-827806815857140383

[vague cape]

i wonder what it would be like if our big aoe tree was hella weaker than a tree that gets worse with more targets but does st

and i wonder if our free cleave niche was just butchered so much that someone else could do it better

and if blizz gave it to like 10 specs

what would that world look like

[buoyant cosmos]

You're living in it champ

[vague cape]

i wonder if the same shit also applies to assassination

like exactly the same scenario

[buoyant cosmos]

Dead class, go next

[vague cape]

i wonder what if our class that has really good burst and free cleave simmed like a piece of shit

and if anything happened to the rogue during burst, what would happen

if they say got a mechanic that made them leave the boss

[buoyant cosmos]

Surely you can just cloak it like God intended

[shell dust]

hey guys is it normal if i get mechanic on outlaw to be bottom 10-14th dps

[vague cape]

i wonder what would happen if the entire class was worse than a single spec from another class that people don't even play and think it's weak

[vague cape]

trick is to deal with mechanics so greedy you dont have downtime

hook exists, perma sprint

most mobile spec ingame, change my mind

[buoyant cosmos]

If you didn't almost wipe the raid, are you even trying?

[indigo token]

guys i just realized something

theres no fucking chance we're appearing in mdi

[vague cape]

if you didn't wipe ur raid on mug and gally were you really playing?

[buoyant cosmos]

Orange rogue

[vague cape]

bow down to your frostscythe wielding overlords, pleb

[buoyant cosmos]

Arcane / Havoc / Frost / Prot / Rsham or something like that

Maybe veng / fury

[vague cape]

there's a world sub sees play imo

[drowsy ridge]

It may be only Heroic, and I only Green parsed, I'm happy:

[vague cape]

not hopeful tho

[buoyant cosmos]

Maybe the token appearance

Idk if casual does mdi

I never really watch

[vague cape]

the burst that spec has is so unhinged it might get routes catering to it

[buoyant cosmos]

Would be cool to see the dark horse for sure

[buoyant cosmos]

Grants man 🙂

I did the first 2 on mythic in a pug and they're so much easier than dimen heroic

[drowsy ridge]

Dimmy fell over once we stopped tripping all over ourselves. Our first time in P3 he died

[vague cape]

idk, plexus wall in mythic seems a lot harder, it seems to kill like 4-5 people every pug I join for some reason

almost like it's not in normal or lfr or something

[drowsy ridge]

Thanks!

[wintry solar]

buddy only the chievo matters, gg!

[buoyant cosmos]

We had 3 or four plank to it

[vague cape]

don't put your acomplishments down, we're all in a race against ourselves before anyone else and you managed to overcome what you could do before

[buoyant cosmos]

7+ minute kill, but it died so gg

[drowsy ridge]

I've been harder on myself since I learned about parsing >>;;

I'm quite happy with the kill though.

[buoyant cosmos]

Soulbinder is turbo free, I wish we had tried lumi

[buoyant cosmos]

It'll come

[drowsy ridge]

I did 100 Parse once, on BBH. For healing. Because I Killing Spree'd into the beam like a dumb ass

[quaint mauve]

that fights basically once you get to p3 you win

[drowsy ridge]

We expected one wipe due to someone messing up, and were plesantly surprised when that didn't happen

[torpid fiber]

hmm
Do I want to track crimson vial on my silly progress bar weakauras, and if so what's the 6th thing I want to track so it's an even 2x3 instead of being uneven...

Already tracking kick/blind and cloak/evasion

[drowsy ridge]

Kidney Shot?

[torpid fiber]

Maybe

That's the obvious 6th but idk how often I actually care about kidney shot cd

I guess shiv would be the answer if we talented it anymore

[gaunt phoenix]

?

[torpid fiber]

oh actually I wasn't tracking feint bc it's functionally 0 cd, but having duration tracking would be real

[stuck sparrow]

ngl

[torpid fiber]

Good shout

[stuck sparrow]

i dont track feint cd just duration on my buff

i dont see the point

If you're pressing feint so often you won't have a charge

get help

[torpid fiber]

I have the bars set up to fill up as cd ticks down and then empty as duration runs out

[stuck sparrow]

if im needing to press feint that often im sending a very colorful message to the healer

to play their character

[torpid fiber]

Feint I might want to add special logic to show the second charge just for visual reasons

[quaint mauve]

who’s the outlaw that sha plays with

[torpid fiber]

(I.e. set background colour to be different if there's still a charge while it's active)

[quaint mauve]

?

[stuck sparrow]

who is sha

[quaint mauve]

the brewmaster guy

[stuck sparrow]

W H

[quaint mauve]

top 5 brew every season

plays with a outlaw rogue

[stuck sparrow]

Idk who that is

only outlaws that insta come to mind are the ones that run with squish/noxiv's phys group

although seen wox not play outlaw a few times

[quaint mauve]

im just lost looking through raider io

bc the only key it shows he has done

is a 19 gambit

[stuck sparrow]

probably doesnt stream or maintain a presence

yeah he appears on wcl, just guildies ig

[granite merlin]

Ooooooo how you do this

[torpid fiber]

Gimme 2s to boot up wow and I'll throw you the import code for a bar if you want

[granite merlin]

I’m not online 🙁

[torpid fiber]

Its just triggers and conditions

[granite merlin]

Do want

[torpid fiber]

There's an "inverse" setting

[granite merlin]

I’ll try to hit you up when I’m at home 🙂

[torpid fiber]

so I have it set so that while the buff is active, the inverse setting is the opposite of what it usually is

[granite merlin]

That sounds badass

[torpid fiber]

(And then because of getting info from first active trigger, it shows the aura duration while it's active instead of the cd)

[granite merlin]

I wanted to make something like this but have JUST started screwing around with weak auras

[torpid fiber]

Weakauras are so awesome when they just work

Tbh these are pretty easy, they're two triggers and two conditions each

[granite merlin]

I wanted an all in wonder ad rush aura

With a bar

[torpid fiber]

I made them because the luxthos weakaura positioning of utility abilities is in a spot that just sucks to look at by default

But also I didn't want to have full icons taking up valuable central space

So, small bars

[granite merlin]

Yeah I was talking about this with someone yesterday I’m red green colorblind so I have a hard time pulling data out of a mass of buttons and timers

So I try to have countdown bars and symbols next to my chars

[torpid fiber]

also unrelated but the "autotarget" kick macro is soooo useful it's crazy

[granite merlin]

Yeah I have auto target kick and cheap and kidney

[visual trout]

!wq

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[torpid fiber]

it makes so many things so much easier

[granite merlin]

I thought the marcellion rogue weak aura was pretty cool and lite but it’s missing coup tracker

Though about stripping some of le’s stuff and mushing it into his and making a bastardized version

[torpid fiber]

I use my own custom edit of luxthos auras where I've basically tinkered with a bunch of shit to make it work better for me

[granite merlin]

Yeah I’d love to see it 🙂

[torpid fiber]

I use https://wago.io/pUjlmmxNT but I need to update the screenshot on it lol

ngl I've been using colour-coded vanish for so long that I sometimes forget that vanish is actually grey usually

[frail veldt]

Whats up with so many bosses having hitboxes that are literally HALF the size of their model file?

havent done streets in a while

and first boss of streets

is so fucking comically awful

its hitbox is literally standing INSIDE of the bosses asshole

[torpid fiber]

Devs don't play melee

[frail veldt]

legit

even if they dont

JUST MAKE IT THE SAME SIZE

AS THE RED CIRCLE

!?!?!??!!

how is that not the default

[torpid fiber]

Yeah LMAO

It's so bad

[frail veldt]

I mean this is like alpha levels of bad development

its probably one of the most annoying things about the game

is how fucking inconsistent they are

with hit boxes

[torpid fiber]

They removed acro for this

[frail veldt]

shameful honestly

[torpid fiber]

Dw when solo gets hired by blizzard they'll fix it

[frail veldt]

Solo seems like hes too smart for blizz

[torpid fiber]

Yeah

also could probably get a job paying way better than game dev if he can get through the hell that is the job market rn

[frank bane]

For fucking real! Why do we have to sniff the taint of the boss to be able to hit them. Dimmy is the worst offense of this. Dude is literally 10x the size of Stormwind and has the hit box the size of a quarter.

[frail veldt]

dimmy is a fucking war crime

the sheer incometence to end up with it that bad

I think honestly what happened

is they fucked up with like how the mechanic for the gravity thing works

and they designed it to be based on his hitbox

so they had to shrink his hitbox

to make it not go off early

so they just fucked his model file

cuz they designed the mechanic poorly

[frank bane]

I think they call that "cleaver use of dev mechanics" to cover up the opps they did

[cinder relic]

I feel as though the rough hitbox on dimensius is part of the challenge for melee

Idk, I really enjoyed the fight overall for prog

Probs an all timer for me

[frail veldt]

I honestly wouldnt care as much if the model file made sense with it

the inconsistency is what sucks

cuz it means you have to adapt to blizzards randomness of model file to hit box constantly

instead of them just having quality design consistency

[frank bane]

It is really a fun fight but a lot of the hit boxes are a crime this season. #acrostrikeswhen

[frail veldt]

I dont like the nathan drake/uncharted/cut scene type fights

[neat echo]

We close the class discord, blizzard will care!

[frail veldt]

not a big fan

[buoyant cosmos]

Im going on a two week trip and thought about getting those to emulate and realized that I don't want to play a movie lol

[cinder relic]

Idk, I feel like I notice when a boss has a really bad hitbox, but like

Dimensisus takes some getting used to but like

It literally never crossed my mind at all during prog

[frail veldt]

so it doesnt feel smaller to you"?

but you said ti takes some getting used to

which one is it

[cinder relic]

Like its for sure a smaller hitbox, but idk, after like, 10-15 pulls of the boss it felt fairly normal

[frail veldt]

just feels unecessary to me

[granite merlin]

Thanks!!!

[frail veldt]

I never thought of bad hitboxes as a fun game challenge

[cinder relic]

Just makes the arena denial mechanic more iimportant to do properly

[frank bane]

That is a large majority of my issues with the small hit boxes. The amount of area of denial is a bit over used IMO. Hopefully Midnight will address that for a breath of fresh air. Complete side note, I hate when ranged drop Excess Mass in Africa and melee have to stand there and drool while the mechanic happens LOL.

[cinder relic]

Is it really that overused?

How many bosses even have area denial based mechanics

[frail veldt]

just make the area denial bigger

[cinder relic]

loomithar?

[frail veldt]

it feels like an accident

LOL LOOM

the hit box

on the goop

IS SO BAD

[dawn talon]

eh it makes fire feel rly bad too

bc ur pf travel time is rly long

[cinder relic]

U mean the dim hitbox?

[frank bane]

For raid no, it's just Dimmy and Loom. For keys there are a lot.

[cinder relic]

Is that a this expac problem to u or a this tier

[frank bane]

In fairness, mostly this tier b/c I was tanking the last 2 tiers. Area of Denial on a tank is turbo whatever.

[ocean lodge]

Realistically, how would we want outlaw buffed?

Like just a flat aura, or something to give the bte windows more oomph?

[gaunt phoenix]

some aura probably, some ambush for HO, maybe reduce energy cost of GS to help the low rolling

[frank bane]

1-2% increase to Ace per Combo point
Sinister Strike costs 5 less energy
10% increased dmg to Coup De Grace and Killing Spree
Revert the nerf on HO

[cinder haven]

"You don’t need acro anymore because we will design larger hitboxes"

[frail veldt]

honestly

I wouldnt are

care*

if it didnt change so often

some mobs I can stand in fucking timbuktu

[gaunt phoenix]

they've created this massive discrepancy where trickster cannot be used on the last 2 bosses even though it would probably feel nice, but it is so very far behind on ST i don't think a tuning pass can resolve

[frail veldt]

some I have to literally be inside of them

[frail veldt]

wait why cant it be

is there some issue with like KS or something

I honestly havent done the last two bosses enough to know

[gaunt phoenix]

No it's just worse

[frail veldt]

ah ye how far behind is trickster on ST?

[torpid fiber]

Trickster doesn't have many great ST tuning knobs

[cinder haven]

Like 15% or something?

[exotic warren]

there a list of abilities/things you can do while in killing spree somewhere?

ie spring/grapple etc

[gaunt phoenix]

cloak evasion feint grapple

i dont remember feint actually

[cinder haven]

Feint works

[gaunt phoenix]

crimson vial

[cinder haven]

Vial working is weird

It’s on the gcd isn’t it?

[gaunt phoenix]

it is

and it's a weird hasted gcd

regardless of AR

for some reason

[frank bane]

I'll take "Things I didn't know for $500 Alex"

[buoyant cosmos]

they really want us to not hate using it

like DK grip being hasted

and yet

[gaunt phoenix]

i like vial

[buoyant cosmos]

I do too

feint + vial is nice

lot of energy, but still nice

[cinder haven]

I guess it’s kinda free during ks

[buoyant cosmos]

earlier I saw someone say not to cancel KS early anymore, was that just some (mis)information

[cinder haven]

The only build i know that prefers to not cancel is trickster kir 1fth

[buoyant cosmos]

sounds like the M+ build lol, I'd been running it up to 7.

[cinder haven]

Which I play a lot, but I pretty much always cancel anyway

Yeah the m+ build

[buoyant cosmos]

ok

Guess that info to cancel it was from last month

[cinder haven]

The week 4 pin mentions not cancelling for 1fth kir

And only that build

Only news maybe is that fb 1fth can cancel just fine

If anyone is playing that idk

[ocean lodge]

I'm still like 90% convinced they killed slappy hands because of araz and dimmy

[cinder haven]

We’re gonna give you a raid buff! Actually no we’ll remove utility instead

[ocean lodge]

Blood should have kept it

bare minimum

[cinder haven]

Yeah

[ocean lodge]

It's already a challenge to talent into mass grip unlike with dh lol

[cinder haven]

Costs two talent points iirc? And there’s nothing you can drop that doesn’t hurt?

[ocean lodge]

you got it

[glass mortar]

i feel like theyve forgotten we have vial tbh

nothing ever interacts with it really

whys it even cost energy

its cd is limiting enough

[ocean lodge]

at least soothing for outlaw is pretty great

[cinder haven]

I’m running leech over avoidance this season

[ocean lodge]

vers+avoidance+feint is some pretty nutty tankage for a dps that isn't a dk >_>

[cinder haven]

Do we really need the avoidance

We’re basically immune to aoe damage

[ocean lodge]

No kill like overkill

[cinder haven]

Not that leech really does much either