outlaw

[frail veldt]

theyre moron proof

[strong halo]

nah nah nah

i had a frost dk with 0 interupts

in a 15 HoA

[buoyant cosmos]

They just keep folding to rot now

it's stupid

[frail veldt]

Yeah I mean they would have 0 interupts AND be dead the whole time if that player was on mage

so

pick your poison

[dawn talon]

tbf

[frail veldt]

im picking the dk

[dawn talon]

heal my guy

[buoyant cosmos]

a crumb of healing, pls

they're too busy babysitting the BM not using defensives

[strong halo]

getting declined from 90% of keys is tilting though going back to my mage i guess rest od season

[frail veldt]

im just used to it at this point

ive had good success listing my keys though

SO MANY people apply

its insane

[buoyant cosmos]

Just ask if they want to do their key after if you need it

see what happens

[frail veldt]

and they dont give a fuck that youre an outlaw

[bright crane]

is BM a CD spec

[drowsy ridge]

There is a reason I only run with my guild, and even then I don't do anything above a 10

[bright crane]

You guys wanna know something funny

[drowsy ridge]

I know, not an option for those who want to do high keys, but that's how I get into anything at all

[bright crane]

Outlaw is the name of the internal gay lawyer group at my wife’s firm

[strong halo]

yeah but 1 brick = 2 more keys to get something u need

[frail veldt]

well if you never list your key anyway

like if you go a whole week

and dont list your key

and you need your key

youre dumb as fuck

[buoyant cosmos]

you can go an hour + sitting in dorn or gamble 30 minutes

[frail veldt]

you should ALWAYS end every week with your key bricked

imo

otherwise youre just wasting it

[copper radish]

i had some prot war yesterday invite me and he said something along the lines of "i always want an outlaw" and i was like huh

[rotund token]

Had one dk joining and said " I respect the outlaw grind" lol.

[frail veldt]

thats wild

[buoyant cosmos]

for the culture

[rotund token]

Was ex outlaw player lol

[copper radish]

to be fair he brought an arms and fury warrior too so idk what he was thinking

[stiff vector]

maybe he thinks he can only get perma tricks from outlaw

little does he know

he could just invite a sub rogue

[buoyant cosmos]

I invite outlaw sometimes to ask them why one ability is 60% of their damage in the middle of the key

[frail veldt]

oh truuu

perma tricks

is outlaws best trait

Brews love me

actually

[rotund token]

Yea, brews love us

[bright crane]

Doesn’t Hunter have misdirect?

[buoyant cosmos]

it's ass

most don't take it either

it's not a must take talent for pathing

[bright crane]

Oh it’s a talent

Didn’t know that

Sad!

[buoyant cosmos]

tricks is too

iirc

shared w/ blackjack or something

[copper radish]

1 hour long tricks is outlaws best utility lmaooo

[strong halo]

Usually list early, get some io, brick a hard one brick an easy one and then its basically 2 keys to get io i need so 1 hour of maybe of 1 hour in q

[buoyant cosmos]

I see it as getting to play the game in that hour, but I don't always run my own key and sit in queue too.

[junior coral]

You guys think outlaw is one of the harder dps to play?

To play at a higher lvl

[strong halo]

@vivid vessel i doubted u early in season. You were right. State of outlaw is cringe

and you predicted future

[stiff vector]

god damnit my hunters rng is cursed too

normal antenna with avoidance and the bow drops

I literally roll

a 9

on both

[vivid vessel]

I didn't predict anything lol, I was actually more optimistic than it ended up being

But it's just obvious when you have played law long enough

I can see ptr numbers

And know

How it will evolve

It's not hard

And all the damage profile changes were terrible

So you end up with low damage and a way worse damage profile

So Yoh are just useless

[stiff vector]

ye I mean I could see on PTR it was real bad

but I was certain

we would get buffed

[worldly shale]

why are wa still june colored

[golden lark]

Can we just shutdown the Outlaw discord until its fixed dmgwise?

[worldly shale]

what am i gonna do all day then

where am i gonna complain

tf?

chat?

[golden lark]

Lets all spam blizz with tickets?

[worldly shale]

lets

[golden lark]

The oughta get their attention 😅

[worldly shale]

outlaw!!!!

[worldly shale]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/1265638924580159488/outlaw.gif

blizz pov

[fallow fractal]

is it normal that like any other class is out dpsing us on nearly every boss ?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[vivid vessel]

Isnt this crazy?

Can't we have the same for retail

One big server

[worldly shale]

ye bro

its not like

we have

3642 problems

[vivid vessel]

Like servers are so outdated

[worldly shale]

server wise

even now

they cant code

[vivid vessel]

Servers are just annoying

No point

[worthy elm]

hmm Do i craft a belt or ring..

[worldly shale]

agreed

but its blizz

[vivid vessel]

Everything is cross server now somewhat

[vivid vessel]

Belt is boe

Cost like 700k

Bis stat

I wouldn't craft a belt

Ring is fine thon

[worthy elm]

hmm

[desert tendon]

el famoso

rogue utility

[languid coral]

Why does archon say we A tier

[somber fractal]

A for Assasination

[languid coral]

I'm tempted to just play assa tbf but it's so boring

[shy pecan]

whats the name of the belt?

[proven ocean]

Hekili!

Ur back

[worthy elm]

i feel like im trolling a bit in raid on outlaw

[proven ocean]

Dont feel

U are

But its not ur fault

Bad rng spec bad

[worldly sinew]

Nah.. Mobility n Survivability > Meters
Thats what I tell myself whenever a guildie hits floor POV.

[somber fractal]

did i ever leave tho

[fallow fractal]

y boring hero talents

[copper radish]

back to my DH for a night and its refreshing putting up numbers lol

[worthy elm]

man i have like 0 crit atm

[buoyant cosmos]

should get some then

[stiff vector]

bro what the helly

like 0 hunter tier has dropped in this normal so far

im being scammed

[worldly shale]

no cap

on my dh

in the heroic run

I GOT EVERY PIECE

EVERY POSSIBLE PIECE

from 1 run

like idk

had mad luck

and i got sigil

XD

[hardy wigeon]

secret technique over stone idol or surely not?

[somber fractal]

u should totally trade me all your gear btw

[bright crane]

Game knows you play ol sorry

[quaint mauve]

it’s a sign

to like atleast play a cool meta spec

[worthy elm]

ok, got a bit going now

[stiff vector]

I will prob play some MM too tbh

I think MM kinda cool

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel can u show me what ur feral and warrior do in prio dmg

like on shards

[vivid vessel]

More than me

[quaint mauve]

yeah it is i play mm

[quaint mauve]

this is like a frequent complaint of yours….

have you brought it up to them…

[stiff vector]

well at least I got a normal netherprism

[quaint mauve]

i want that trinket so bad

so i can just go play sub

and be happy

[keen belfry]

huh

[proven ocean]

What the helly

[proper veldt]

[red zinc]

shits probably runnin on old hardware

[quaint mauve]

i’ve seen you talk about ferals and warriors in halls b4

[keen belfry]

yeah i just want to know what real cats and pooop class color specs do to prio mobs

[frail veldt]

does war have good prio?

it hasnt felt like it

[keen belfry]

if player real

i think ikt can be

[frail veldt]

It feels only as good as outlaw prio in like last season

which is like

marginal

but yeah maybe i havent seen the good ones yet

theyre probably doing way higher than 15/16s

[proper veldt]

Fury warrior have bad prio I think

Arms is fine no?

[frail veldt]

oh idk aobut arms

yeah was just atlking fury

[proper veldt]

I mean arms won’t be played anyway fury too op now

[frail veldt]

fury kinda just feels like a better outlaw rn

or like the role that outlaw normally fills

constant damage with decent prio and good st

[vivid vessel]

Outlaw but soft capped

[dawn talon]

i honestly dont know bc i haven't seen anyone play arms

[frail veldt]

yeah p much but you dont really bring fury for its softcapped aoe do you?

[vivid vessel]

I mean

It helps

[frail veldt]

sure yeah

current fury is like what I wish outlaw was in a lot of ways

[mellow mica]

dude

[frail veldt]

obv wihtout having to play the boring fury rotation

just like its role

and value

[mellow mica]

its a impossible beat bm hunter on keys

[vivid vessel]

They should just soft cap outlaw already

[subtle field]

with full phys comp, will outlaw still get gapped in dmg by assa?

[frail veldt]

agreed

[vivid vessel]

This is becoming so cringe

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[proven ocean]

[frail veldt]

depends how bad they are

[vivid vessel]

You guys do realize that assa gain similar value from phys comp or

Like outlaw isn't special lol

[subtle field]

I wasnt completely sure no

[frail veldt]

is assas overall that good though rn?

[subtle field]

that was why I asked mr zac

[subtle field]

yesh

[frail veldt]

I thought people kinda gave up on it

cuz its st is so fucking garbage

[vivid vessel]

Let's just say I wish outlaw was nearly as good as assa

[mellow mica]

Anyone who takes this class, puts 710+ ilvl becomes a devil

[frail veldt]

lol

[vivid vessel]

Just watch casualaddict keys

[proven ocean]

Assa St is lower than outlaw

[indigo token]

outlaw is suffering

[proven ocean]

Unless u bring funnel

[vivid vessel]

He tops keys as assa very easely

[subtle field]

assa still has very good dmg, im still pumping, but not as much as I could ig, cuz of the bug

[proven ocean]

Also assa is doing tank dps

On bosses

[frail veldt]

yeah

[proven ocean]

Idk why people try to hide that

[frail veldt]

it really does

[proven ocean]

Its cringe

[frail veldt]

but outlaw does tank damage in aoe

so

[dawn talon]

there's so many bosses where u have easy funnel tho

[subtle field]

lol hahaha

[frail veldt]

pick your poison

lolol

[vivid vessel]

I mean

[torpid heath]

outlaw aswell

[frail veldt]

rogue is just a tank

[mellow mica]

I was thinking about starting to get items for the assassin, but it's a lot of work to do that

[proven ocean]

“So many”

[vivid vessel]

Outlaw does tank st as well lol

[proven ocean]

Not always

[frail veldt]

nah outlaw def does more st than assa

[subtle field]

well at least assa can get some funnel,

so there is that

[proven ocean]

U guys do more st 99% of the time

[frail veldt]

youd have to lowroll or have like no buffs going into the boss

[proven ocean]

No

[vivid vessel]

Ok but you could start boss with CDs and then you would do the same st as outlaw

[proven ocean]

100% of the time even

[vivid vessel]

You just chose to not do that

[proven ocean]

Thats pure cope

No offense zac but

[vivid vessel]

No it's not lol what

[mellow mica]

bye guys, im gonna swap bm hunter

[proven ocean]

Thats just wrong

[torpid heath]

Zac is right

[proven ocean]

Outlaw only does mega low dps when it low rolls

[torpid heath]

sorry but outlaw is as bad as assass in st

[proven ocean]

So dont bring the bait low roll logs

[vivid vessel]

[subtle field]

aint now way youre doing bleed build st dmg as outlaw

[vivid vessel]

Don't bring the logs where you cd the boss once then

Noob

3 min boss timer

One cdn

[proven ocean]

Zac

U know im right

[vivid vessel]

Eh

Half right

[proven ocean]

Theres no escape in this

Outlaw is bad

But

[vivid vessel]

I would rather be assa than outlaw

[proven ocean]

Its not that bad

On st

[vivid vessel]

That's all I'm gonna day

Like I would rather be half an assa than outlaw

[proven ocean]

Sure but

Ur st

Wont be better

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[proven ocean]

Its gonna downgrade

So

[vivid vessel]

But I'm still lowest st on half the bosses

So like

[proven ocean]

Well sure

[dawn talon]

hylbrande, everything in ecodome, big momma (obv), swampface, everything in hoa except last boss, everything in streets except last boss, and u can funnel on 1st boss arakara aswell

[proven ocean]

Assa is just lowest st in all of m+ dpsers atm zac

[silk stirrup]

Just play sub, the superior spec.

[proven ocean]

Bleed build is cringe

And

Like

[vivid vessel]

Ok but that's true till you have funnel tho

[proven ocean]

No matter how u play u will end up consuming tea in aoe

[vivid vessel]

And if you are in a group that isn't stupid you can bring funnel on a lot of bosses

[proven ocean]

U still bottom dps even when u do most of the time

[vivid vessel]

And you know that

[proven ocean]

Unless its perma funnel like big momma

[vivid vessel]

Yes maybe

[proven ocean]

Like i do agree tho outlaw is in a worse state

[quaint mauve]

he’s playing sub rn no?

i saw him play sub in a few vids

[subtle field]

tbf though, you can bring funnel to alooot of bosses

but pure st fights are hell

[proven ocean]

Like if i play sin vs lets say

Monksea

Or kira

I know i’ll lose st

If they high roll

And i only have 1-2 tea’s

Even 3 teas why not

Tea is dogshit on bleed build anyway

[quaint mauve]

well they’re always pulling into boss for their funnel specs

[proven ocean]

I feel like u jumped in mid conversation

[quaint mauve]

yeah i did

:)

[dawn talon]

do they even have to highroll that hard?

[proven ocean]

We’re talking about sin and outlaw on pure st

[proven ocean]

Well

[dawn talon]

i feel like protwarr actually just does higher st than assa sometimes

[quaint mauve]

oh yeah

[dawn talon]

brew has to highroll tho prob? idk haven't played w/ good brew this season

[quaint mauve]

pure st on bleed build sucks

[proven ocean]

Ye

Brew can really crank

St

Issue is listen

[subtle field]

idk I dont think its much of a discussion. you would obviously rather be assa, for a key in general. but for pure st outlaw wins, cause of assa bleed build

[proven ocean]

Half the bosses u bring few funnel

So it masks assa abit

Its realistically worse than it is like

[hidden sky]

does supercharger have a buff icon to track/show up on combo points or is it invisible/am i bugged out

[proven ocean]

Im playing perfect sin i know this boss is pure st

I setup for it

I barely beat the tank

Outlaw can lose to tanks too

Not just assa

Its just that assa is worse at it

[dawn talon]

ive actually not seen assa do more dmg on last boss hoa than a prot warr who wasn't dogshit

a single time

[proven ocean]

Like

[torpid heath]

u must be ragebaiting

[proven ocean]

Im certain my build would’ve been op this season

Cleave build

[dawn talon]

but this is prob bc everyone who plays the spec sucks

[proven ocean]

But spatter nerf was kinda big

[vivid vessel]

both

[proven ocean]

Zac is agreeing idk what ur talking about

Both specs are shit at st lol

[vivid vessel]

i have 100% lose rate against prot war on last boss hoa

I did it once

[torpid heath]

all rogue spec St suck

[vivid vessel]

hm

sub st is good wdym

[quaint mauve]

sub cranks

[torpid heath]

in keys u mean?

[vivid vessel]

yes'

but i also mean in raid

[proven ocean]

Outlaw is probably worse than sin there maybe unless u minmax grapple well

[vivid vessel]

because

[slate forge]

Isn’t it pretty low on frac?

[vivid vessel]

the raid is last 2 bosses

[torpid heath]

last on frac

[vivid vessel]

every other boss was 2 pulls

[torpid heath]

2 pulls araz

[slate forge]

How is it single good if it’s bottom on frac?

[torpid heath]

?

[vivid vessel]

sub was topping boss damage on araz

i think this isnt helping your point

[torpid heath]

im talking to you not talking about sub

talking abt ur guild

[vivid vessel]

oh no

we did like

idk we progged half of it pre nerf

so its diff a bit

[torpid heath]

but look

[vivid vessel]

ye but how is that relevant

[torpid heath]

pure st boss

[vivid vessel]

ye but

how is that relevant

[slate forge]

You said single not prio

[vivid vessel]

like what does this tell me

[frail veldt]

those builds arent m+ builds

[torpid heath]

people blast adds on araz

[vivid vessel]

no but

[frail veldt]

frac is meaningless to m+

[torpid heath]

im not talkiing about m+

[vivid vessel]

do you believe sub boss damage is bad

ye but when you say st

[torpid heath]

depends on timing id say

[vivid vessel]

are you just talking fractilus then

[torpid heath]

but better than outlaw and sin for sure

[slate forge]

I walked in on sub is good single lol I assume you meant frac type shit

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

I was at like

[vivid vessel]

no but i just mean

[proven ocean]

4.2m with cds ready on 2nd boss priory

[vivid vessel]

fractilus is a 15 pull boss

[proven ocean]

On sub

[vivid vessel]

dimensius is 300+

[proven ocean]

Assa and outlaw is probably half that

[vivid vessel]

so when you say sub st is bad

[proven ocean]

2 weeks ago

Not even now

[torpid heath]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

do you think fractilus is that relevant

[proven ocean]

Like 719

[torpid heath]

no

xD

[proven ocean]

710

Ilvl

[vivid vessel]

cause on dimensius and nexus king

"sub st"

is good

[torpid heath]

timing on those 2 are insane for sub

[vivid vessel]

ye

[vivid vessel]

yeee

[torpid heath]

thats what i meant by depends on timing

[proven ocean]

Brb slee

[frail veldt]

4.2m isnt all that high though is it?

[proven ocean]

P

710 ilvl

With cds rdy

In m+

XD

[ocean lodge]

If you can kill araz you can probably kill fract shortly after

[proven ocean]

thats giga high

[frail veldt]

I mean im still 710 lol

[proven ocean]

Brb sleep

[vivid vessel]

thoughts ross

[proven ocean]

Bro

Nice

[frail veldt]

yeah 5m+ is high

[proven ocean]

Anyways zac got an interview in 7 hrs

[frail veldt]

gl

[proven ocean]

Stop pinging me noobs

Gn

[frail veldt]

no ones pinging you you j ust keep responding

[vivid vessel]

gg

dont fail

[frail veldt]

dont get 1 shot

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean

dont fail the interwiew

[frail veldt]

LOL okay maybe zacs pinging you

[proven ocean]

I wont np

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean you asleep yet ?

[proven ocean]

Gonna pre flask

[vivid vessel]

okok

[proven ocean]

Zac…

[vivid vessel]

ye you do that

[proven ocean]

Wtf..

[vivid vessel]

go for it cuh

[proven ocean]

Brb

[proper veldt]

glgl

[viscid forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sullen wyvern]

I know this is utterly irrelevant but I got 100 in plexus normal

I think

[ocean quartz]

just got mythic prism from first fractillus kill, im gonna play outlaw on soulhunters, should i use prism on it?

like on wowhead it says its A tier, and to use it with vanish

should i macro it in any way?

or just hold it and stack it

[stiff vector]

dont macro it to anything

definitely do not do that

[torpid heath]

use it when the vibe is there

[ocean quartz]

okay, is it better to use it or just go with two passives? i got antenna hero and warpclaw hero too

[stiff vector]

if youre feelin the prism vibe go for it on SH

youll prob be progging the boss for a decent amount of pulls, just try out diff trinkets

[torpid heath]

Roll 5

[stiff vector]

whichever trinket combo passes the vibe check wins

[torpid heath]

its all about the vibe

[buoyant cosmos]

nah it'll be a three shot

easy

[stiff vector]

Nah it’ll prob easily take them over 3 pulls just to get everyone’s macro and WA for dispels working properly

[lone crow]

xddddddddddddd

love these screens

[buoyant cosmos]

just take 5 while they chain pull lol

[trim pond]

RTB rules the same as last season?

[junior coral]

new tuning coming out tom =p rogue gettting love

[harsh forge]

another 8% for assassination

[fluid iron]

sub needs buffs ong

dog tier spec

[frail veldt]

Rogue is just dog tier

As a whole

[vivid vessel]

what

idk if you guys are perma trolling

are just complelty clueless

[frail veldt]

Yeah rogues op

[fluid iron]

when am i ever not joking with you zac

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-hide-cat-scared-shy-gif-10202929209339057575

[craggy barn]

buff every rogue nerf zac specifically

[frail veldt]

I mean sub is giga on dimensius ofc

Subs always giga on some fights

[vivid vessel]

"some fights"

[frail veldt]

Cuz it has the most insane profile in the game

[vivid vessel]

my dude

dimensius and nexus king

are like 500 pulls

[frail veldt]

Yeah this tier it happens to be the last two bosses

[vivid vessel]

the first 6 bosses

[fluid iron]

sub is just very good at doing 20sec burst cleave

[vivid vessel]

are maybe 50 pulls

al together

[frail veldt]

I'm aware

[vivid vessel]

stop acting like

sub is only good

on 2 fights

[frail veldt]

I wouldn't say sub is in a good state as a whole

[fluid iron]

buff sub tho

[vivid vessel]

when its good on 90% of the tier

[frail veldt]

Ngl

[fluid iron]

gimme an 8% single target buff

that would go hard

[frail veldt]

Idgaf about mythic prog balance

[vivid vessel]

its also good in keys

what more do you want

[cinder relic]

If BM is getting buffed, buff sub fr

[frail veldt]

It's aite in keys

[fluid iron]

frfr

[vivid vessel]

wdym aliright in keys

bro

its prolly better than outlaw in s2

[indigo token]

we are DOGASS in keys

[vivid vessel]

you guys are wild

[fluid iron]

hey hey

there is no "guys" here

that was just mewo's take

[vivid vessel]

mewo is acting stupid

[fluid iron]

i just want a single target nudge

[vivid vessel]

ye and how does that work stealthi

how do you buff sub st

[fluid iron]

buff evis nerf nimble

[tender wedge]

You get the outlaw treatment

Nerf flurry

[vivid vessel]

sub is practically top boss damage tho

on dimensuis

and its ultra topping on araz

idk this spec is cooked

maybe stop making fights with damage amps tho

[mellow mica]

@vivid vessel What was your biggest burst in a big pull?

outlaw

[vivid vessel]

like 25 or smth idk

[fluid iron]

buff sub single target ong

[mellow mica]

hmm

[indigo token]

holy fuck

[tender wedge]

I hit 18m the other day and almost fell out of my chair

[digital linden]

guys how do you prefer to cancel ur killing spree before vanish so it doesnt break stealth early?

[frail veldt]

Wat

You don't have to do that

[mellow mica]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[digital linden]

wdym

[frail veldt]

KS doesn't cancel stealth

[digital linden]

it has broken my stealth several times if i send vanish to stop the cast

[frail veldt]

I think you have something else causing it

[digital linden]

it does if there is some left in the cast and like u vanish at unfortunate timing

i dont know how it could be anything else

my vanish has nothing macroed to it

[frail veldt]

I do it all the time I think you might have a macro in your vanish or something

Idk

[digital linden]

u can try now its not a good idea to break the ks cast with vanish

its very often this has happened

[frail veldt]

I do it all the time lol

You got something going on for sure

[digital linden]

if u pay attention to it i guarantee it happens

or its ping diff

idk

[frail veldt]

Even if it canceled

[frank finch]

well i like dps so i dont cancel ks

[frail veldt]

You'd still get subt

[frank finch]

unless fb

[frail veldt]

So it doesn't matter

[digital linden]

yes im not worried about losing subt

its for the gs cast

or adr gs

when i break stealth

[frail veldt]

Oh as fatebound hmm idk

[fluid iron]

obviously tho you dont play sub for overall boss dmg, you play it cuz it makes certain parts of the fight turbo free

[frail veldt]

Just GS same global as you vanish

And the bug should work

If you are adr GS

Then you shouldnt vanish at high cps anyway

[digital linden]

i think the reason i am seeing this and u arent is cuz im trying to gs bte when its only gs up and no dr

adr*

so i delay sending a gcd while still in vanish

so i can send bte

if you do that its quite often ks sends a tick while ur in vanish

and breaks u out early

[frail veldt]

I do that too

[digital linden]

fuck it bro

😂

[frail veldt]

I just rarely KS before vanish

As fatebound

[vivid vessel]

i think its criminal how sub players cry about sub tuning every tier

when its litteraly nuclear bomb level

[frail veldt]

Cuz thar would mean you ksed while GS was coming off cd

[vivid vessel]

on every end boss

[frail veldt]

Which I try not to do

Cuz then your delaying gs

[digital linden]

well no the cdr that ks gives could be what gave u gs

[frail veldt]

Yeah so you'd be channeling KS

With gs off cd

I would dispatch

Instead

Personally

So that's prob why I don't see it

[digital linden]

no im saying u send ks and thats when gs comes off cd

then ur in the cast at 0 cp

and gs just came up

[frail veldt]

Yeah if GS is a short cd I wont KS personally

[fluid iron]

some people do be taking the victim card too much, at the end of the day i dont really care how good or bad rogue is as long as im good enough tuned to get brought in as the only reason i play wow is for progress raiding

[frail veldt]

Cuz then it ends up desynces from adr cd

[strong halo]

NOT AS CRIMINAL AS 2 DAYS WITH NO STREAM

[frail veldt]

But yeah idk if anyone plays around KS messing with vanish

Never heard of that

[vivid vessel]

tommorrow it starts again

well tonight

[fluid iron]

i just meme around alot

[frail veldt]

Also I think solos recommendation was to not play around GS bte

Cuz the delays to your gcd aren't worth it

[vivid vessel]

also because half the times it doesnt even work

even when macroed

idk

its weird af

[strong halo]

Try queueing for keys as outlaw in 15+, you get rejected 95% of the time

[fluid iron]

sub's overall postion in the raid is obviously very good right, like it hard carries certain parts of the last two fights

yeh you wont get any pitty from me

i dont really care one bit about m+ tuning

[digital linden]

idk even the value of it even if it worked more often than it didnt

[fluid iron]

like ofc it sucks that you cant play the spec you prefer to play

[strong halo]

tuning for raid is pointless it gets nerfed every week with buffs and doesnt get harder

[digital linden]

how much more worth are those couple coins really

[torpid fiber]

I think complaining to sub players about M+ is a bit silly given that spec's history of being not great in keys

[vivid vessel]

I care only about m+ tuning im ngl

cause thats the only tuning that matters

[frail veldt]

Agreed

[vivid vessel]

in raid you can play whatever the fuck you want in reclears

[fluid iron]

to you

[vivid vessel]

no

[fluid iron]

i dont agree with you

[strong halo]

exactly and every week its nerfed anyways with how it works now

[vivid vessel]

prog last like 1 month

[torpid fiber]

We'd feel like complaints are silly if we were the best spec in raid and sin players started complaining

[fluid iron]

yeah for wr 50 people bro

[vivid vessel]

you play the good spec then you get to play your fav spec

for all of reclear

[fluid iron]

what about the next 4.5k people

[vivid vessel]

ok well

stealthi

i play outlaw

[strong halo]

u get buffed every week

[fluid iron]

the game gets tuned for them

[vivid vessel]

my spec has not been good once in raid

[fluid iron]

not us

[vivid vessel]

since i started the game

so

[fluid iron]

outlaw has been good 1 tier

since its creation

[vivid vessel]

[fluid iron]

and it got nuked 2 weeks into the tier

[vivid vessel]

pog

[sonic pawn]

Are you talking way back at the start of legion ?

[fluid iron]

or well it was probably the better overall rogue spec in Castle nathria but rogue in general was awfull there

yes

outlaw got absolutely nuked week 1-2 in emerald nightmare

[strong halo]

Idk why its just so annoying to me when raiders think M+ is just a sidegame and tuning doesnt matter. Every week raid gets nerfed and theres no incremental level of difficulty. Unless your going for TOP 100 tuning legit doesnt matter youll get there eventually

[vivid vessel]

raid tuning is so irrelevant compared to m+ tuning

its actually so funny

[elder wigeon]

does outlaw still have any prepull shenanigans?

just coming back to the spec after a while

[dawn talon]

because the game is balanced around people who raid

they try very hard to make you do both

[fluid iron]

and most people that raid

with their main focus on raid

absolutely cannot stand m+

so kinda makes sense why they do not care about how m+ is tuned

[dawn talon]

these people should go pound sand equally hard

[fluid iron]

cuz its not content they engage with

[dawn talon]

ngl

lol

[fluid iron]

i dont enjoy m+ either

i do it cuz i have to

[manic light]

What's a good damage overall that is realistic for the average joe(Not me)?

[fluid iron]

reason why i stopped pushing key last expansion

just wasent fun for me anymore

[strong halo]

same with alot of people for raiding.

so idk what ur point is

[frail veldt]

I also think raid balance is inherently easier because you just gotta make sure 1. A class isn't so bad that it outweighs it's raid buff and 2. That the specs of a class that share a role aren't so far apart that you just never consider a spec

[fluid iron]

i dont engage with m+ outside of 4 weeks im forced to do it for weeklies

[frail veldt]

They care too much about it imo

[fluid iron]

so why should i care about m+ balancing?

same if you were a m+ only guy

[frail veldt]

Being objective?

Idk lol

[fluid iron]

ofc you are only gonna care about m+ performance

[strong halo]

Lmao i dont raid but i understand i want outlaw to be balance and represented in raid adn that usually translates to M+

[frail veldt]

I care about raid balance I just think it's easier to do and it shouldn't outweigh m+ balance

[strong halo]

i would argue raid tuning legit doesnt matter

[frail veldt]

Since that's he more repeatable system where a poorly balanced spec can get SEVERELY neglected by the players if it's perceived bad

It's way easier to take a bad spec in raid than in m+

[strong halo]

The difficulty of bosses doesnt increase, and every week you get buffed. So you dont need tuning to get the kill.

[rotund haven]

the cudgel macro will put the cudgel in my main hand instead of oh after a few switches...any fixes?

[frail veldt]

You have room to accommodate

[mellow mica]

Does anyone know of a YouTube channel where someone posts Mitica + Outlaw POV?

[smoky lotus]

not sure that's possible since it uses the specific item slot. What macro are you using?

[stuck otter]

same with keys silly. every week you get more gear and nothing is impossibly hard and tuning for keys legit just makes the number of the key level go up artificially untill you get to the same problem +2 key levels higher?

[strong halo]

What

[rotund haven]

the one that was posted in here, I just crafted a second longsword if that matters

[strong halo]

M+ you dont get buffed weekly like you do with raid rep. And its infinetly harder the higher lvl you go. So my arguement is that tuning matters more as difficulty gets higher

[frail veldt]

Yeah m+ being a leaderboard and not a race also matters

[trim pond]

!Rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
(Assuming season 3 tier and Supercharger)

• Roll if you have 0 or 1 buffs.
• Roll if you have 2 buffs and Loaded Dice is active.
• Roll once asap after pressing KIR, as your buffs don't get rolled away. Use this weakaura to see when your buffs don't get rolled away (yellow border).
• After the KIR roll, continue to watch the weakaura as buffs tick down. As your buffs expire you may hit a point where your remaining buffs are yellow and you can roll again.

[trim pond]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[smoky lotus]

hmmm yeah maybe if they have the same name as your main hand

[frail veldt]

Tbh the focus should be to have raid be as balanced as possible in the first month of the season and anything past that they should shift their focus

[rotund haven]

yeah might be cooked

[trim pond]

Is the RTB WA that sounds a horn when to roll relevant or people just watch the buffs individually

[frail veldt]

I think most people just watch the buffs

[strong halo]

i think it all matters tbh, but if people want to use the arguement that m+ doesnt matter then why would u care about raid buffs? just wait til end of season so its nerfed and u get it anways

[frail veldt]

There are some working was for that though

[stuck otter]

class tuning for m+ doesnt matter as much as you want it to because no matter how close each class comes dps wise and utility wise there will always be a meta sure the gap between the worst and the best would be smaller but the same issues will still happen just at higher key levels. it isnt tuning thats the problem its the design of m+ that isnt really fixable easily

[frail veldt]

People who said m+ doesn't matter at all are cooked tbh it's the only repeatable scaling difficulty version of pve that we have

Raid is effectively just story mode

M+ is competitive

[trim pond]

Raid tuning matters most cause RWF. Plain n simple

[frail veldt]

Obv rwf is competitive

And hof

[stuck otter]

so raid having a leaderboard as well doesnt matter?

[frail veldt]

It's a race

So the spots get taken

Immediately

[strong halo]

You get buffed every week. M+ doesnt have the nerfs raid does.

[frail veldt]

It matters but my point is it stops mattering once the spots are taken

The end of raid being competitive is in the first two months of the xpac

[stuck otter]

if i nerf a boss dmg in m+ by 20% wow everyone can now do that key +1 level higher oh no we have the same issue we cant kill this boss in m+ now because the scaling caught up and its impossible again..

[frail veldt]

I mean

Patch

If anything it's set up well for them

They can focus balance at the start on raid

Then once maybe hof fills and another 200 spots or something they can shift focus to m+

[stiff vector]

I mean, in a perfect, sensible world thats how they would do things

but we clearly odnt live in that world

also dunno if they would actually even change anything for us specifically

[stuck otter]

m+ is infinitely scaling it doesn't need nerfs to %dmg and %hp because the scaling negates those nerfs and all the nerfs do is artificially inflate the key levels changes that make a key less annoying to do is ideal

[stiff vector]

were dogass in both right now, and still radio silence from the clueless devs

[strong halo]

i want the classes tuned not the dungeons lmao

[frail veldt]

Raid balance is also easier since there's 14 DPS slots

So it's a lot easier to have a spot

[smoky lotus]

see if this helps you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5G6f02woCo

[stuck otter]

the same problems exists just on a different scale. your problem isnt class balance or m+ balance its how m+ functions

[frail veldt]

I think bad balance in m+ has more negative impacts than bad balance in raid

[strong halo]

^

[frail veldt]

It's just a more sensitive format

[delicate seal]

Bm got buffs though so there's that

[vivid vessel]

since when does a key give 19

[keen belfry]

capped?/

[vivid vessel]

ye

im dumb

2am brain no capo

[sullen walrus]

idk how u doing this dmg bro

no way

[vivid vessel]

[sullen walrus]

i have shit trinkets 🙁

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean reclear incoming still

[digital linden]

718.5 is crazy

[stiff vector]

that is disgusting

very illegal zac

[buoyant cosmos]

Are we not using/have we ever cursed enchants?

[stiff vector]

last boss HoA, dont even have raid buffs, 692ilvl, 684ilvl weapon, dont even have 4p yet. And im basically doing 90% of what your average geared outlaw does on the same boss

[bright crane]

Huge

Enormous even

[stiff vector]

very fair and balanced Id say

[bright crane]

Gargantuan, perhaps!

[red zinc]

bm got that horses dont stop they keep goin mentality

[bright crane]

Is BM a cd spec

[red zinc]

no

[stiff vector]

you play 1min CD as DR

no CD as PL

[red zinc]

Ye you go PL in keys though I imagine

Or were recent changes actually relevant for keys

[bright crane]

Literally huge

[stiff vector]

I think there is potentially some viability in playing DR in keys, people have definitely been testing it out ive seen people playing DR in high keys on logs

and the damage still seems plenty good in those keys. Altho I think some dungeons are definitely just PL dungeons

[bright crane]

its done

had to replace Yungboy with Yungdude 🙁

[junior coral]

Blizz should do some thing similar to how they treat PvP with cross balance… just have different tunings for m+\raid. Maybe that’s a terrible idea, but I feel like it would help.

[frail veldt]

I think that's too much for them to handle

Blizz forgets about pvp specific nerfs they've done and leaves specs to rot for seasons on end

[junior coral]

Yea. Wtf. They gotta just spend more money lmao

[frail veldt]

But it won't make them more money

So why would they

[junior coral]

For the love of the fucking gameeeee haha

Yea no, I understand what your getting at

[frail veldt]

I'm sure some of the devs still have passion

[junior coral]

But it would be nice

[cinder relic]

They don't want spells and characters to feel dramatically different in different content, at a systems level

[frail veldt]

But the overall C level people probably don't care

They're trying to increase profits

It's like their job

[cinder relic]

Its one thing to have a talent build, its another to be like "In dungeons blade flurry is 60% and in raid its 40% or something

[frail veldt]

Yeah that's exactly what they do in pvp

And it seemed like a good idea

But it's just a lot to manage I think

[junior coral]

Makes sense

[cinder relic]

They were asked this in SL

and that was their answer

[frail veldt]

It's better than doing nothing for pvp

[grim spear]

Having a class perform differently depending on the situation is just disgusting.

[cinder relic]

pvp is like a VERY differnt gamemode than PVE

[frail veldt]

Pvp would be non functional without pvp specific tuning

[cinder relic]

yeah

[grim spear]

ye, diversity is supposed to be the job of the talent tree.

but it sucks

especially the hero talent trees

[mellow mica]

34% vers with potion?

[grim spear]

Hero talent trees are literally the worst expansion feature ever, and yet they’re going to be a permanent system. Terrifying.

[junior coral]

I don’t like coup, I mean could be cool but the way it flows now just doesn’t hit the same… but I’m always just always thinking of how it felt to play outlaw S3 DF lol

Man that was so fun

[frail veldt]

Gotta be without

He's also prob running soh

So not thieves vers

[worldly sinew]

It would be better if it just doublecast instead of.. gcd gcd

[junior coral]

And if after killing spree was done it gave you the two ub so you could coup ps coup

Rather then having to SS

And if it over capped it just added and not lose a stack

[dawn tundra]

Welp, I guess I'm just shit at Outlaw.

Tried following the guides and I'm still doing less DPS than tanks.

[mellow mica]

change to bm hunter

[mellow mica]

I think that's how it is at the beginning, and then you'll be in the same situation as at the beginning.

[dawn tundra]

I'm in mostly Hero gear and can do most of the mechanics for any boss, but I can't do the damage. I'm probably just stupid, because even WITH Weakauras I'm failing.

[past sky]

when i swapped to sin the other day i did less than the tank on most pulls in my next dungeon

takes a while to learn a new spec and get muscle memory etc

[dawn tundra]

I've been playing Outlaw since BFA.

[mellow mica]

ye

[dawn tundra]

I did raiding with this one as far back as Shadowlands. I think I'm just stupid, dude. I've had years to train and have been doing Heroic Raiding for ALL of TWW, but I keep sucking shit in terms of damage. Should I just quit playing Outlaw and never pick it up again?

[torpid fiber]

Do you enjoy the spec?

[dawn tundra]

I do, but no matter what I try, I keep doing piss-poor damage.

[torpid fiber]

Keep playing it

[dawn tundra]

Why? I suck.

[torpid fiber]

If you don't think it's your rotation, you might literally just not be pressing buttons fast enough

[past sky]

if you can produce a log there are ppl here that can analyze it to help you

[dawn tundra]

I don't even know what it is, and I can't show anyone my Log because the account is owned by my Dad, not me.

[torpid fiber]

As outlaw it's often better to press the wrong button fast than the right button slow

[mellow mica]

If you have fun playing, that's what matters.
But if you feel like you don't have fun with it and think it's too weak, I think it would be a good idea for you to play with a meta class.

For example, I play because I think the class is really fun and I think the theme of her being a pirate/thief is cool.

[dawn tundra]

That's just it, I enjoy the class, but I keep failing to do the DPS.

[mellow mica]

and I kind of don't give a shit about the damage, but rather about the fun

lol

[frank finch]

can you teach me how to roll 250 coins in 5 min patchwork

[mellow mica]

this is your habit over time, sometimes you can excel better

[dawn tundra]

I just want to get AOTC, dude. But I keep doing less damage than tanks. I can't tell if it's my rotation or if I'm not pressing buttons or WHAT, but it's gotten to the point where I'm thinking about having a menty b.

[mellow mica]

hmm

[buoyant cosmos]

If you're doing demi, outlaw is turbo awful for that fight

[torpid fiber]

we can't help you without logs or a recording or anything

[smoky lotus]

go to warcraftlogs.com and type your character name there, you might have logs that someone else recorded

[buoyant cosmos]

lose all your stuff during the intermissions

[mellow mica]

yea

<me playing in demi outlaw>

[dawn tundra]

Forgeweaver, Nexus King, and Dimensius.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/moon-guard/hasturt

[mellow mica]

[dawn tundra]

Here's the link to my character. I got told Nexus King was a Single-Target fight.

[buoyant cosmos]

The way sub/sins cooldowns line up for nexus make it great there

same for dimen

[smoky lotus]

looking at fractilus since its ST. First thing first.. remove ambush from your bars if youre playing KIR

[torpid fiber]

^

[dawn tundra]

Then what do I replace it with?

[torpid fiber]

sinister strike

[dawn tundra]

I need something to give me more combo points.

[torpid fiber]

you press sinister strike in stealth as KIR

[buoyant cosmos]

No killing sprees either

[smoky lotus]

also, open with adrenaline rush for combo points so you can bte right away in the opener

[mellow mica]

something I didn't know

[buoyant cosmos]

If you type !log it can start a thread and people can help you there and it will not get lost in chat as well

[torpid fiber]

was adrenaline rush down from the trash pull on fractilus?

[dawn tundra]

!log

[torpid fiber]

your gcds are 1s apart but with adr up you should be 0.8s

[torpid heath]

how come i miss energy in the first 4 sec of a fight bro

i fkg BTE - SS - SS no energy

[bright crane]

dude

bm has like

5 abilities

wtf

[sterile warren]

Is there any time when hekili is just absolutely wrong for this spec?

[craggy barn]

bro the comp im playing i might have to be bm for 🙁

[scarlet drum]

Wait, you don't use killing spree in KiR?

[covert kestrel]

no you do, i think they were saying "you didn't press killing spree"

[thin fiber]

Curious thoughts: Any1 here plays with less than 5 fingers on your keyboard? How are you coping with the APM?

[gaunt phoenix]

I suppose I mostly use 4 fingers

[wintry solar]

MMO mouse gang

[gaunt phoenix]

Thumb is for jumping

[torpid fiber]

Technically I use 4 and then my thumb for my thumbstick but that's a bitch ass answer

[thin fiber]

if you was to lose 1 finger, which one would you choose?

[stray star]

!log

[thin fiber]

was thinking thumb, but i use it to press C V B

[wintry solar]

Index, middle, and ring for WASD, pinky for shift+ctrl, thumb for spacebar.

[torpid fiber]

My choice on which finger to lose would not be influenced by how big an impact it would have on my ability to play World of Warcraft

[teal garnet]

Jesus the damage on Fractilus is so bad T.T

[wintry solar]

My pinky on my right hand

[thin fiber]

that's for digging, no?

[carmine ferry]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wintry solar]

I don't think I use it for anything tbh

Typing at work

[zinc briar]

https://youtube.com/shorts/z-L7EtDTAk4?si=Xa1roF-6saYkzouD

[buoyant cosmos]

Is that a thing you're living with? Check out the azeron cyborg or maybe an mmo mouse

[toxic gate]

is there anything particular tips or stuff for forgeweaver? if I get off the bench that is 😛

[craggy barn]

as law?

[toxic gate]

yeah

[stiff vector]

bro is there like..something wrong with my character or something lmfao? I keep getting more heads than tails, sometimes significantly more heads on like every boss and its actually just hard trolling my coin dmg

[quick scaffold]

Is weapon ilvl important ? Im with a 704 mai hand

[torpid fiber]

mainhand damage is like 223 dps per point or something insane

[frail veldt]

Based

[frail veldt]

It's the most important

Of any item afaik

[stiff vector]

tfw come into this week 0/8m, now progging nexus I wasnt prepared for this lul

[quaint mauve]

yawn

[stiff vector]

so far 2 for 2 on ghosts

[thin fiber]

nah, just asking out of curiousity

[manic light]

if KS is on cd 10-40 sec, do you keep reseting it and send another coup or do you just vanish?

[wintry solar]

!bug

[ornate heath]

[Outlaw bug Thread](#1276315296159760467 message)

[frail veldt]

if KS is <20s cd then you hold vanish

[gaunt phoenix]

you try to at least

[frail veldt]

and KS has a higher prio than coup if KS is of cd but if ks isnt off cd you send coup while youre waiting

and yeah if your adr buff is dropping and adr cd is high then you can vanish despite KS cd being soon

[gaunt phoenix]

sometimes i still vanish based on the pull or target count

[manic light]

how come KS has a higher prio and Coup?
doesnt Coup make KS do more damage?
and after the ks you get more blades, send another coup into a big Vanish?

[gaunt phoenix]

for cooldown reduction

[manic light]

really?
the cdr on KS is more important?

[dawn tundra]

Alright, I think I've got my loadout changed for KIR. I ditched Ambush in favor of SS.

Dumped SaD, replaced it with RTB, changed the bind key for Ghostly Strike to X as it's closer and if I'm reading right, I should be keeping it up, yes?

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not the biggest deal in the world, but yeah.

[gaunt phoenix]

you do use ghostly strike on cd when you need to build cps

[torpid fiber]

Is the number exactly 20s?

[gaunt phoenix]

No

[torpid fiber]

just vibes?

[frail veldt]

is it weird that in ST as 1pt FTH I GS for cps but only if the buff is low duration

[gaunt phoenix]

20 30 etc is the same in sim

[torpid fiber]

kk

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe not 40

[frail veldt]

Like I GS more for uptime than cps but still wont send it at max cps obv

[torpid fiber]

I just want to know the range where I'm not trolling by setting my wa to notify me that KS is coming up soon

[frail veldt]

I set it to 30s

[pine vessel]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[frail veldt]

and I play it by feels

[torpid fiber]

30 seems good bc that means if I react slowly I don't get owned as hard

[frail veldt]

my KS glows at 30

[torpid fiber]

I have pixel glow at low cd and then proc glow when off cd (both light blue)

[frail veldt]

smort

[gaunt phoenix]

honestly I might be fucking it up but in keys i don't feel like I vanish based on KS a whole lot

[torpid fiber]

It comes up sometimes but yeah less than it could

[frail veldt]

I mean in theory you waste nothing holding vanish

[torpid fiber]

Especially bc of coup rules

[frail veldt]

if the situation is right

[torpid fiber]

You want to vanish after coup, and KS gets you 2 coup points, so you end up going ks -> dispatch -> 2x ss -> coup -> coup -> vanish a ton

[frail veldt]

@gaunt phoenix is it in the apl to hold vanish for coup if you have enough UB stacks + EB stacks to know youc an get to a coup

as long as you know it wont interfere with KS

liek right after a kS

if you have 2EB + 2UB

Ive been building to coup

then coup

then vanish

feelsgood

[wintry solar]

!spreadsheet

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torpid fiber]

Feels so bad to waste so much vanish cd if vanish is overcapping

(And if it's not overcapping that's basically the rule except when you have bs and the first ub procs opp)

[frail veldt]

well this is assuming no overcap

[torpid fiber]

(I guess it isn't the rule, that's a good point)

yeah I realised that actually that isn't the rule but it's so obvious that it surely must be a dps gain

[frail veldt]

yeah if KS CD is >2min and vanish CD is greater than like 1 min and you have 2UB and 2EB its gotta be correct to build to your coup and get the coup off before vanishing

[manic light]

whats EB?

[hoary wave]

escalating blade

[manic light]

I have never actually read Coup and it says it will always default to 5cp, does that mean that the combo points will add to it for example 5+7cp?

[hardy thicket]

yes

[manic light]

so with the 4-set why are we not building up the 2nd coup that will do 50 more dmg?

[torpid fiber]

inefficient