outlaw

[latent slate]

soulbinder is counted as 3rd boss so it gives 2nd boss loot

[vivid vessel]

its third boss in journal

[timid idol]

yea its not a bug its a spider

[frail veldt]

LOL

no shot

[fluid meadow]

depends how blizzard ranking them

[frail veldt]

I thought you had to have actually killed the boss

for it to be added to the table

good to know

very op

[fluid meadow]

no, they deleted that cause of loot abuse

[trail cape]

is antenna bait? sim says to take mythic chest

[fluid meadow]

like if u kill the last boss u have chance to get loot from every boss before too

[frail veldt]

yeah guess that makes sense

[sullen wyvern]

Guys

Question

How did a friend

That never killed loom on mythix

Just plexud and soulbinder

Got antenna myth on vault?

[stiff vector]

hmmm if I regear to account for the haste it does actually say max ilvl sacbrood sims quite good

[frail veldt]

soulbinder counts as 3rd boss

[worldly shale]

they just

talked about that

[frail veldt]

so it gives you loot from loom

[sullen wyvern]

There's

No fucking way

[frail veldt]

its decent

[sullen wyvern]

Lmao

That's so stupid

[frail veldt]

its still 0.5% behind sigil + antenna in fuu's sim

[stiff vector]

ye I still somehow

dont have a sigil or antenna

but have araz and prism

[inland acorn]

You guys have usable trinkets ?

[sullen wyvern]

I still dont have boots

[fallow canopy]

How big the damage difference between fatebound and trickster for M+ for outlaw?

[sullen wyvern]

[sullen wyvern]

Huge

[inland acorn]

Infinite

[sullen wyvern]

Like 10%

[fallow canopy]

also im understanding why people feel frustraited with outlaw

[sullen wyvern]

Should be on pins

[indigo token]

i got

3 pairs

of myth pants in my vault

[fallow canopy]

how do you deal with losing 100% energy in two sinister strikes lol

[indigo token]

and I already have myth pants

:unxdd:

[inland acorn]

You call a wipe

[keen belfry]

are you tc'ing a non rtb CTO proc fest rework rn

[fallow canopy]

i dont get the joke sadly

[keen belfry]

hes saying u ask the raid to wipe so ur parse isnt fucked

[fallow canopy]

oh lol

so what am i plaing outlaw wrong?

[keen belfry]

naw that can happen

[frail veldt]

you might be

one of the unfortunate things about outlaw is all of the feelbad moments happen more the more mistakes you make haha

it really likes to punish you for not playing perfectly

[fallow canopy]

im comin off playin sub and like running out of energy in sub is hard lol. but outlaw its like

two abilitys and im deflated

[frail veldt]

sub ignores energy yeah

[inland acorn]

Sub uses energy

[quaint mauve]

if you run outve energy on outlaw

it’s just gg

[frail veldt]

yall being dramatic

outlaw runs out of energy sometimes yes

but it comes back fast

[inland acorn]

not if you have to press GS next

[frail veldt]

just dont press it

[quaint mauve]

it causes a chain reaction of despair

[frail veldt]

lol

[quaint mauve]

im so excited to get home and check my vault

hoa gloves are in there

i just know it

[inland acorn]

nope i saw your vault

[gaunt phoenix]

@vivid vessel if they remove rtb then they have to change supercharger

[inland acorn]

it's 6 lily trinket

[indigo token]

why would they remove rtb

[frail veldt]

they could put it on vanish or something

it would be boring

but

I could see them doing it

but also I could see them reworking vanish/subt too haha

so maybe its on whatever replaces that

[fallow canopy]

hmm i should find weakauras for outlaw i think

[frail veldt]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[gaunt phoenix]

Unironically fixes a lot of gameplay stuff they might be unhappy with, if they remove rtb and simply buff CTO to like a 45% proc

[frail veldt]

it really does

and even could keep kir

without complications

kir works fine on its own

its rtb that makes it confusing

[swift hedge]

delete kir

[quaint mauve]

i feel like rtb is a big part of like

identity though

[gaunt phoenix]

so

[frail veldt]

yeah but when it causes this many problems sometimes it has to go

[gaunt phoenix]

you still have 80% buff uptimes

with a mega buffed CTO

[indigo token]

its so nice having your spec identity tied to something so fucking buggy

makes you feel so secure

[inland acorn]

You don't feel secure ?

[bright crane]

Are you unsafe???

[inland acorn]

Blink twice if you can't answer

[cinder haven]

Yeah move to vanish like God intended, we already said this

[quaint mauve]

remove dispatch

[frail veldt]

I still think they should remove vanish from our rotation lol

give me pirate shadow dance pls

[gaunt phoenix]

Unironically

[bright crane]

Pirate dance??

I want an ability that as an Arrr matey!! Sound to it

[gaunt phoenix]

killing spree makes you enter stealth (gun mode) and you gain the ability to crackshot etc with extra range for a few seconds

[frail veldt]

^^^^^^^^^

huge

yes

our dance

should have extra range

omg

fucking BANGER idea

[bright crane]

Sorry solo but that’s too good of an idea

Guaranteed to not happen now

Best we get is a mage rework

[undone notch]

Genuinely I’m just hoping we get the shadow cudgel effect added to hero tree or an apex talent in midnight

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm

[quaint mauve]

give me burst aoe

uncapped

[indigo token]

wait

thats fire

but then we need more cdr on killing spree

[undone notch]

Honestly I feel like Outlaw is conceptually one of the coolest AoE specs in the game in terms of how it is balanced

[inland acorn]

I like how solo is cooking some good ideas

So we know that those won't happen

[undone notch]

8 target cap but doing really high damage to enemies under target cap is super cool

[cinder haven]

It already kinda does but it would be cool if it included all abilities

[vivid vessel]

ye on vanish obviouslyt, like it should have been from day 1

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[vivid vessel]

like

[cinder haven]

Could maybe make me get over the loss of acro

[vivid vessel]

we try to line it with vanish

as much as we can anyway

always been annoying

for no reason

[undone notch]

The potential to have 100% cleave in Soul Hunters is awesome

[quaint mauve]

im still thinking about draven axe rtb thing

bouncing dice

[copper radish]

Anyone have the outlaw alpha scoop yet?

[cinder haven]

We have alpha scoop at home

[fading hatch]

Could also rework mastery to be around cto odds instead of the abomination it is now

[keen belfry]

im still waiting on SS proc chance rework thing

[inland acorn]

Idk if i like that

[keen belfry]

that HAS to be coming

[inland acorn]

It would be almost like haste tax, where you want to reach X % mastery to get decent cto

and then dump vers

[cinder haven]

Yay another cap

[strong halo]

I NEED A WEEAKAURA to tell me check gem

wrong gem againnnn

[fading hatch]

Ya or something similar idk. The current mastery is just random pointless flat dmg. Itd be cool if it played more into class fantasy of rng

[keen belfry]

i have one for my rogue just go copy one from wago

@ripe ibex

[undone notch]

The monkey’s paw curls.

Main Gauche’s damage is now fixed and mastery increases proc chance

[strong halo]

why couldnt they just make it auto swap

with gear sets

[inland acorn]

because code is not spaghetti anymore

It's turbo spaghetti

[ripe ibex]

hey what’s up?

[keen belfry]

u LOL at my message

what sup?

[frail veldt]

is it a hot take that I dont really feel like "rng" is a class fantasy lol

thats a mechanic

our class fantasy is a pirate

[strong halo]

BIG true

[ripe ibex]

must have been the wind

[frail veldt]

if theres anyone who would CHEAT AT GAMBLING it would be a pirate

we should have the opposite of rng

it should all be rigged

[undone notch]

That’s just like every other class in the game though lol

[buoyant cosmos]

get this man to a kitchen

[frail veldt]

theres plenty of unique mechanics you can lean on that dont fucking suck ass to play

outlaw shouldnt be able to low roll

it should only be able to high roll

[inland acorn]

Just because you remove rng doesn't mean outlaw won't be outlaw

[frail veldt]

^

[copper radish]

Mastery should just summon a massive ship that shoots a ton of cannonballs. Proccing off bones or something lol

[inland acorn]

It's still unique in regard that your ST is technically aoe due to blade flurry, fast reactive gameplay, no real burst cd just flat dmg

[undone notch]

I just always felt like managing low rolls was the same thing as managing high rolls

[inland acorn]

No

[frail veldt]

I do agree that mastery proc chance should increase with stats

[frail veldt]

it is not

[inland acorn]

There's nothing to manage in low rolls

[undone notch]

Part of gambling is that you lose sometimes

[inland acorn]

Outside of telling Blizzard to f off

[frail veldt]

gambling isnt a class fantasy

[copper radish]

Can they add back flurry hitting your main target too?

Didn’t we have a bones buff that did that at one point

[inland acorn]

Did we ?

[red zinc]

it is for me

not on outlaw right now

but i love specs with high variance

shits funny asf

[frail veldt]

also having your dps be a little rng is different from having your rotation randomly suck sometimes cuz you rng low rolled energy procs from fatal flourish

like thats not defendable

cmon now

[copper radish]

Think grand melee did it at one point. Like 50% of flurry damage onto main target

[red zinc]

the highs are all the higher if the lows are lower

relative type shi

[undone notch]

Literally our entire only viable build this season is about gambling for buffs then using KiR to continue your good odds

[frail veldt]

well its not a symmetric distribution

[frail veldt]

no not really

[red zinc]

you must lose the entire house to win the mansion

-joe biden

[inland acorn]

it shows we did in 10.1.5

[frail veldt]

outlaw is more about good builder spender rules than it is about focusing on the gamba

[inland acorn]

10% extra dmg including primary

[frail veldt]

and cdr etc

[quaint mauve]

mythic antenna or

[frail veldt]

I feel like the gamba is more a pain point than a feature

[quaint mauve]

hoa gloves

[gaunt phoenix]

it seems removing rtb in favor of a very high CTO proc chance reduces variance by like 10 fold

[quaint mauve]

please lord

[frail veldt]

pls pls

[indigo token]

the cdr and builder spender is what i love about outlaw

[frail veldt]

same

cuz its the skill expression part of the spec

[copper radish]

They should rework it with more to ST cause flurry such a high overall on our dmg

[quaint mauve]

not what i was hoping for hmmm

and i only did 5 bosses in raid :))))

[buoyant cosmos]

ouch

[quaint mauve]

its the same ring im running but at myth with avoidance

[undone notch]

I think the CDR and management is really cool, but I also think it’s a little silly to say that gambling isn’t part of the spec when 2/3s of our builders have procs and gun resets on top of rolling random buffs

[quaint mauve]

or i take mythic chest

which ima do bc it sims better

[celest kettle]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[inland acorn]

tha'ts like

every spec in this game

also has procs on abilities

[copper radish]

Hero box dropping those without running raid yet feels good man

[buoyant cosmos]

That's huge

[quaint mauve]

WTFFFFF

[buoyant cosmos]

most people don't look and just buy lol

[cinder haven]

Is it dungeon weekly?

[quaint mauve]

9k is crazy

[buoyant cosmos]

delves

[cinder haven]

Wasn’t it delves last week?

[buoyant cosmos]

Cata timewalking

[copper radish]

It was 5/5 timewalk last week and a hero box too

[quaint mauve]

my dh gets mythic crit mastery speed weapon

outve its first vault

like

its a sign

[buoyant cosmos]

Mine keeps getting myth tier lol

[copper radish]

New main lol

[buoyant cosmos]

I was doing a key on my DK and invited an outlaw rogue for the culture, hit him with "Why is blade flurry 60% of your damage" and he died 5 seconds later lol

[quaint mauve]

look how cute they are

[copper radish]

My DH and outlaw have the same mogs. Except DH using glaives and outlaw got some TFs

[cinder haven]

One button is 60% of your damage lol?!!!

Must be easy spec

[buoyant cosmos]

I think it shorted his brain out

[copper radish]

He had details open to check when he died 😂

[buoyant cosmos]

you can type !log to start a thread for review

[fair tapir]

Oh, thanks

!log

[quaint mauve]

watching streets from ele shaman pov

looks like

such a breeze

[buoyant cosmos]

world of rangedcraft

[frail veldt]

procs are far from unique to outlaw

[frail veldt]

I hihgly recommend playing some ranged this season

[vapid sundial]

It's mostly our cdr

[frail veldt]

its so relaxing

you just stand there

yeah outlaws most unique feature is having no cooldowns and being heavily CDR focused

[vapid sundial]

I'll lyk I'm bm phoning rn

[frail veldt]

by far

[quaint mauve]

@frail veldt how long does it usually take u to get a coup proc at a start of a dungeon

[frail veldt]

I get one right after my opener subt

every time

cuz I pre stack UB using KS pre key

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean you start with 3

[frail veldt]

^

[quaint mauve]

biggest thing i noticed was you dont get a coup proc until a whole minute into the dungeon

other than 85% adr uptime

[gaunt phoenix]

to me it seems you are not really vanishing based on ks or coup

just kind of yolo vanishing

Which is not a horrific mistake

but you do at least somewhat try to hold vanish until after a double coup

but sometimes we vibe vanish based on mob count or good rolls or expected overcapping

which is fine

[cinder haven]

Or having to do a ranged window

[fair tapir]

I've been doing the KS thing pre-key, or at least I thought I was doing it correctly, so i guess I'm not sure how I don't have that early coup proc unless I've doing something else wrong

Is there a hard-ish number on KS cd that we don't hit vanish in unless it's to save ADR?

[keen belfry]

solo can u tell me what to do again do i have to off spec vault again

off spec vaults <<

[gaunt phoenix]

you have to prioritize sinister strike when UB is guaranteed

it simply took you that long to press SS four times

[quaint mauve]

idk which one ima play fr

[frail veldt]

ew bro

are you tryna mog a fucking dagger?

gtfo

[inland acorn]

20s or less

[frail veldt]

Im playing my shadow priest but it feels pretty squishy

[quaint mauve]

i liked hunter last season

i’ve been teaching warlock

and i liked learning it so i can teach it

[frail veldt]

I hate pet classes sadly

[quaint mauve]

yeah same

i play only mm

[keen belfry]

my only options are dagger for off spec sub keys/raid (wont use at outlaw for mog obvi)
or lily for off spec assa keys? would i even use as assa i have prism???
or uhhhhhh socket

[fair tapir]

Ah, I had been leaving SS really low on prio from previous seasons, so I will look to fix that

[quaint mauve]

i might just pull an awang or something

play a mage

[fair tapir]

ty

[frail veldt]

ooooo unfort

[cinder haven]

How can you play spriest after outlaw, it has no mobility whatsoever

[gaunt phoenix]

Also your first ks was pretty late

[frail veldt]

for keys yeah lily is meh cuz you dont need the 1:30

[frail veldt]

cuz ranged is that easy

its hilarious

how baby mode the game is as ranged

[quaint mauve]

yeah it’s not like ranged need mobility

[gaunt phoenix]

like you used a whole vanish and several normal finishers before the first ks

[frail veldt]

I just stand still 99% of the time

[keen belfry]

you find yourself pushing SS even in places you feel like you shouldnt this season, your PS running low on duration is expected rn xd (good design)

[cinder haven]

But acro was too OP

[frail veldt]

I miss acro 🙁

neverforget

[inland acorn]

Acro

[gaunt phoenix]

does UB stack up to 5 if you prekey and then somehow KS before the first SS?

i assume yes

[inland acorn]

Solo cooking nightmare prekey

[cinder haven]

No, 2DS one normal is max

[quaint mauve]

i’ve been enjoying tanking

surprisingly

[frail veldt]

dont think so

I thought 3 is max

[vapid blaze]

is there any issue if i cancel stealth aura anyway even after opener?

like does it lose dps

[cinder haven]

You don’t have a stealth buff to cancel

Subterfuge and vanish are separate buffs i mean

So you’re safe

[sudden fulcrum]

Why would you cancel aura stealth?

[vapid blaze]

there is a bug with fatebound opener

if you dont

[vale warren]

Probably just using the same macro they use for opener to GS+AR at the same time when they're both up

[ornate vault]

/pre-opener

[red zinc]

jum

classic lizzard

[random geyser]

Does it apply to radiant power?

[red zinc]

probably idk

[vivid vessel]

125

[red zinc]

its supposed to be 50

they goofed

[random stirrup]

@vivid vessel chop chop math boy does the raid buff apply to bubble wax

[vivid vessel]

Classic logs being fucked over every few weeks from a random blizzard thing

[random stirrup]

Do the testing for me

[vivid vessel]

Don't care won't be waxing

• I'm eu

[red zinc]

the funniest part though

it says mana oils

[vivid vessel]

So do the math yourself ?

[red zinc]

doesnt work on mana oils

[random stirrup]

Wageslaving I can’t

And wax is goated noob

Wax for life

[frail veldt]

oh...

[red zinc]

its just applying twice (probably due to having two enchants and that bugging it out

125% = 2.25 = 1.5*1.5

[random stirrup]

@wemo maybe you will test the wax

I trust u

[red zinc]

i can feelscraft that it doesnt work

no consumables work

[random stirrup]

true

[red zinc]

also works with dk runecrafting

[gaunt phoenix]

i should prolly change radiant power to one of the stats

[red zinc]

but not shaman imbuements

[gaunt phoenix]

Same damage but more consistent proc

[frank finch]

[hybrid crown]

Omg do I have an enchant on my shamans wep

I know oils don't work

[random geyser]

Sammy buffs dont work

Shammy

[hybrid crown]

I did have one phew

[frail veldt]

lul

[gaunt phoenix]

did wowhead forget that some people use 2 handers

[frail veldt]

I have a job I aint got time for that

I log in and play

[gaunt phoenix]

feels like it applies twice cause they are testing it with 2 weapons

[frail veldt]

oh like use one radiant power and 1 stat proc?

[gaunt phoenix]

no both

[frail veldt]

which one you thinking?

[gaunt phoenix]

sim

[frail veldt]

is there a vers one?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[frail veldt]

ooooooooooo

spicy

but this only applies to raid right?

the buff isnt in m+ ye?

[gaunt phoenix]

ignoring the buff

The stat enchants are good

[frail veldt]

aaah

I seeeeeeee

[livid oasis]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[quaint mauve]

@frail veldt big things happening

[frail veldt]

oh boy lolol

[vivid vessel]

something changed no ?

bigger space

or im stupid

something is weird

its the space i think

[gaunt phoenix]

noob ?

[vivid vessel]

who got old discord

tf

do you have a send button to the right solo

[gaunt phoenix]

wait i have this

[vivid vessel]

ah ye

i get it

they finally removed the stupid space at the bottom

now it line up

[gaunt phoenix]

but that's where the "zac is typing..." goes

[vivid vessel]

i dont see icon

isnt there an icopn here

why is there a weird space

how does it look for you solo

when guy is typing

[rotund zodiac]

how

[vivid vessel]

wtf

thats crazy

why is there a random space on mine

its so ugly

[cinder haven]

Are you calling me a random ugly space

[vivid vessel]

bro

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[vivid vessel]

why is there a space after the dots

its tilting me !!

[gaunt phoenix]

ui dev moment

[vivid vessel]

fix it discord !

[rotund zodiac]

are you using custom discord theme?

[vivid vessel]

no

has someone done a halls

i wanna see whgat changed

[frail veldt]

why is yours above the area where you type

[vivid vessel]

i have new discord cuh

[frail veldt]

looks awful

[vivid vessel]

wtf thats crazy

[frail veldt]

yeah seems op

and increased value of slashers

[gaunt phoenix]

those slashers have the health of 12 mobs

combined

[vivid vessel]

i think they shoiuldnt have done that btw

i dont really undersatand

why they dont make casters

have their cast go on cd

currently you need a 3 kick rotation per mob

[keen belfry]

zac has been so dumb lately

[vivid vessel]

why not just 2 kick rotation ?

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf

[keen belfry]

like not flaming

[gaunt phoenix]

wdym

[keen belfry]

when i say dumb i mean stupid

[gaunt phoenix]

??

[vivid vessel]

dumb hoe

he says

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf

[keen belfry]

yeah

exactly

no flame tho

[frail veldt]

the worst thing

IS THEY HAD THIS

I still cant believe they reverted it

0/10

[vivid vessel]

they did ?

[frail veldt]

brother what

dragonflight

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/ifold-baguette-gif-19326324

[vivid vessel]

no i dont mean go on cd with ccs

[frail veldt]

you played

[vivid vessel]

i mean go on cd with kicks

[frail veldt]

well they get locked out

based on the type of kick

[vivid vessel]

ye

but they dont go on cd

[frail veldt]

but yeah im assuming theyre just tied together

they only go on cd when completed

[vivid vessel]

a caster should never need a 3 kick rotation

[frail veldt]

lolol yeah I agree

[vivid vessel]

unless its a single caster per pack

[frail veldt]

so somewhere in between

on cd for kicking

[vivid vessel]

you should need a 2 kick rotation imo

[frail veldt]

but not on cd for cc?

ALSO

ive been using that kick macro

HOLY

[vale warren]

Give us back 5s kick lockout no cap

[frail veldt]

I feel like I unlocked a new dimension

its SO EASY

to just kick a random mob

without having to click through nameplates

10000/10

[vale warren]

What's the kick macro

[frail veldt]

/nexttarget
/cast Kick
/targetlasttarget```

essentially the "target" system prefers targeting casting mobs

so if you press this button

[gaunt phoenix]

it basically tab targets to the nearest kick and kicks instantly

[frail veldt]

it will tab target to a mob

and kick it

then target back

[vale warren]

Wtf that's broken

[frail veldt]

mob has to be in front of you

but yeah its very very op

[vivid vessel]

guys stop leaking the macro wtf

[frail veldt]

stfu zac

I dont gatekeep

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf

[vale warren]

We should be able to kick behind us like a horse

[frail veldt]

TRUE

[gaunt phoenix]

[frail veldt]

I can kick backwards

[vivid vessel]

haha

[frail veldt]

irl

[harsh forge]

i got the cudgel unfortunately now i have to cringe weapon swap :(

[rotund haven]

Is 85% that bad in say like a 12?

[junior coral]

Will it ever tab and kick a mob that’s not casting?

[frail veldt]

its not great

[frail veldt]

if there arent mobs casting then yes

[copper radish]

Would this work in PvP hmmm

[viscid forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gaunt phoenix]

tab target will always favor a casting mob

[frail veldt]

my first thought

but yeah probably

though not that useful tbh

[copper radish]

Bout to use it later in rated lol

[frail veldt]

cuz in pvp you juts use arena 1 2 3 kick

its easier

might be useful in blitz

[gaunt phoenix]

you still need to hit normal kick sometimes

[frail veldt]

yeah

I have two binds now

[proven ocean]

never seen mid season drastic caster changes ever

[frail veldt]

well 3

[gaunt phoenix]

if a pack has 5 holy smites going off and 1 greater heal

[frail veldt]

cuz I also still have focus kick

[proven ocean]

i wonder why they didnt do it to priory last season

[copper radish]

That’s what I use now. Focus/mouse over one

[frail veldt]

I dont trust mouseover

haha

[copper radish]

Mouseover is iffy tbh esp with a ton of nameplates

[buoyant cosmos]

Mine works pretty well, I just keep forgetting to make caster nameplates bigger

[frail veldt]

I prefer to just set focus before the pack starts

and try not to fuck with mouseover

[brave lagoon]

Bring back enemyGrid

[buoyant cosmos]

that's the responsible way to do it.

Did Ara need nerfs?

[torpid heath]

Is this sim bait?

[buoyant cosmos]

15/16s first boss felt fine if people did it correctly

[frail veldt]

are you low on haste? lol

[snow rampart]

Thank you to whoever invented that kick macro the other day.

[buoyant cosmos]

they did buff it a few weeks ago, dunno if max rank makes a difference

[buoyant cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/ken-jeong-cant-see-too-little-ben-chang-community-gif-5881468

[frail veldt]

link the sim

[torpid heath]

12 000 haste

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fDZaBXMu8bYcQFmZiGQSeT

[frail veldt]

but yeah idk the trinket could be decent idk if its considered sim bait

[harsh forge]

the single target damage is good if you dont have good other trinkets

[frail veldt]

somethings weird there for sure

[buoyant cosmos]

you're doing trickster instead of FB as well

[frail veldt]

it says antenna is a 1% dps LOSS over your seaforium

thats sus

af

[harsh forge]

it says its a gain

[frail veldt]

oh my b I adjusted the comparison

[torpid heath]

0.8%

[frail veldt]

but yeah you are a little low on hatse ig so could be partly why its saying to use it

[torpid heath]

but those 2 are way better

[harsh forge]

haste + big damage nuke on 5 min fight

if you have like 30% verse or so it will sim the damage proc bigly

[gaunt phoenix]

it doesnt win for the typical testing profile https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dyaMwygdHE5HqfCTeMmJ3U

it does sim correctly though

[torpid heath]

i simmed trickster new build

sleight and loaded dice

[gaunt phoenix]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gDGXv1EsqjjQKqSgNoFAjU

hmmm

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

mhmmmmmmmmhkjmm

[torpid heath]

xD

[buoyant cosmos]

3 minute fight

does big dam

[daring oxide]

theres no way bubble wax will be on the spell data, we are rogues and we often get forgotten

[buoyant cosmos]

14 million on a trinket is crazy lol

[daring oxide]

its actually not that much really

[gaunt phoenix]

why does trickster like this item

[daring oxide]

but it should be hitting much harder than tooltip says

[uncut stratus]

does outlaw still have the thing about wanting 20% haste?

[buoyant cosmos]

Still looks like a huge number even if it's not a ton overall

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[torpid heath]

1.6% on an already bis gear is huge

[gaunt phoenix]

i think bc trickster is lower damage st

[daring oxide]

I wonder if HO would like it more too, because we have more haste and therefore the cast should be way faster

or

[gaunt phoenix]

it's not a cast

[daring oxide]

maybe Trickster KIR likes the haste value?

oh its not a cast?

i thought it was

is it instnat?

[gaunt phoenix]

no its not haste related at all

[daring oxide]

instant

[torpid heath]

i tought KIR wanted 18% haste not 20%

[daring oxide]

oh

[gaunt phoenix]

I think because trickster quite literally is lower damage

[daring oxide]

i see

[gaunt phoenix]

it prefers trinkets are that decoupled from your own damage

[buoyant cosmos]

Is it still a downgrade on FB?

[gaunt phoenix]

for st ya

[buoyant cosmos]

got it

[torpid heath]

i mean a 0.7% lost on FTB for a 1.6% upgrade

is worth it since we play trickster on half boss

[gaunt phoenix]

its prob good on araz for damage amp

[torpid heath]

what about m+

[buoyant cosmos]

I think it also looks really cool on use too

[gaunt phoenix]

probably terrible in keys xd

poor aoe scaling

[harsh forge]

it loses value in aoe

ive simmed it b4

we had like 4 drop in heroic

[buoyant cosmos]

brutal lol

[harsh forge]

yea :\

[daring oxide]

ah

i see how it works

its multiple hits per use

didn't realise that

i think 10 attacks per on use (projector)

maybe good in streets?

[buoyant cosmos]

You get the squad of goons to blast your enemies

[daring oxide]

maybe good on nexus king?

use at the start of intermission on adds

and again in damage amp

[frank finch]

does eu have the demon mythic nerfs in?

[cinder haven]

HOA changes is outlaw buff surely

[worldly shale]

outlaw s tier hello?

[copper radish]

Did yall see outlaws buffs yet

[worldly shale]

Ye

[brisk lotus]

man how the fuck did we dodge the buffs

[copper radish]

Too good to be true 😭

[torpid heath]

padding

[gaunt phoenix]

[copper radish]

“Oh no yall do too much flurry dmg no ST buffs for yall”

[slate forge]

Need dev buff then we can get real buffs

[copper radish]

How do we install Zac and solo as rogue devs

[brisk lotus]

even when i feel like im playing super well in a key i still do less dmg than the othr 2 dps

[torpid heath]

in keys we do dmg

Raid is the problem

[brisk lotus]

idk i struggle to do more than the warrior sometimes

[worldly shale]

i think keys are also a problem XD

[brisk lotus]

it feels super undertuned

[slate forge]

We kill all the small gargoyles and critters in the dungeons it’s very impactful dmg def not pad

[torpid heath]

i only feel undertuned on ST bosses and last 2

[daring oxide]

did you use AI to make this image lol

[indigo token]

dont forget the bajillion little shitters in arakara

[brisk lotus]

me watching the ret pally bash his head into the keyboard and still do 2x the outlaws damage

[worldly shale]

whats ai

[brisk lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-cat-crying-kitten-crying-05starrynight-gif-10141647709992578610

[worldly shale]

[daring oxide]

lol

i thought so

i could tell by the shape of the fonts

they are inconsistent

[worldly shale]

bro

the dumb

robot

i send him what background i want

he puts this color

i tried

[daring oxide]

lol

[worldly shale]

5 times

hes just dumb

[indigo token]

fucking clanker

[daring oxide]

this also gives it away

[worldly shale]

but better than me actually doing work and making it

yup saw it

XD

[daring oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

guys just came in now

[buoyant cosmos]

[granite jasper]

[timid portal]

[daring oxide]

I was thinking if you were to make this talent change:

Delivered Doom (Fatebound) now increases Tails damage for each additional nearby target (up to 5).

Would you need to re-tune tails, since currently it does 30% more damage due to being ST only?

[indigo token]

:nowaying:

[indigo token]

you should have put OUTLAW!!!!!!! in there somewhere

[daring oxide]

I was thinking of doing that

[worldly shale]

gj

way better than clanker

[gaunt phoenix]

ya prolly

[bright crane]

Wox playing sub

It’s over

Pack it up

[quaint mauve]

it’s been over bro

[stiff vector]

even wox playing sub means it is truly joever, and even more joever in raid

[fair tapir]

I truly dislike sub, so i doubt I'll be changing anytime soon

i'll just suffer

[stiff vector]

this tier basically just a complete lost cause at this point unless the spec receives MASSIVE buffs in the very near future

a lot of ppl will be done with prog in like 2-4 weeks and after that its like...tier is over anyway

[gaunt phoenix]

Wont happen cause we can parse on 3 bosses so we're fine

[stiff vector]

ye I guess if you just dont look at boss dmg parse(aka the only thing that really matters)

[cinder haven]

A for effort

[stiff vector]

every fight with adds is gonna become increasingly irrelevant every week with more gear+stacking raid buff+they already nerfed the adds on basically every fight, including dimmy and nexus prince so we wont even have anything left to pad on in like a few weeks lul

so it will basically only be Soul Hunters that we arent literally the worst spec in the game on by far, and if that doesnt trigger some late huge buffs for the spec then I guess blizzard just packing it in and killing the tier/season for all outlaw rogues before it ever even started

[frail veldt]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK @vivid vessel

GOD DAMNT

WHY

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[stiff vector]

kinda really sad and pathetic tbh, last seaosn of xpac is supposed to be where you feel most powerful and usually when they kinda let you go crazy and its the exact opposite of that for one spec in the game

[red zinc]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[burnt dragon]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[daring oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1374363430362021979/KillingSpreeWorkshop.gif

I miss the memes

[frail veldt]

how funny would it be

if blizz went in

and patched the adr + gs opener

which nerfed our st even more

and just did nothing else

HAHAHHAA

[fluid iron]

ill rate it 7/10

for haha's

[frail veldt]

itd be a fun one

to just see the chaos errupt

[stiff vector]

dont tempt them mewo

[sudden fulcrum]

yeah all 10 outlaw rogues would be very mad

[fair sparrow]

has anyone seen nexus king changes

what did they change with ghosts

[vivid vessel]

they changed ghosts?

no way

[fair sparrow]

thats what patch notes say

something about the animation

[fluid iron]

havent seen any na raidin

[fair sparrow]

wait

why the fuck am i in outlaw

LMAO

[indigo token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255110288081162311/1374365469884289034/KillingSpreeDawnbreaker.gif

[ember fractal]

this is true ?

[glass mortar]

No

Just memes

[drowsy ridge]

Wishful thinking

[sour vault]

is cudgel still good in dungeons?

[hasty warren]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[bright crane]

Dream the impossible dream

[sonic nimbus]

!keystart

"prekey

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[vale warren]

check the week 4 pin

[pastel otter]

if M+ is my general focus I should probably just take myth cursed stone over myth crit - verse MH aye? at least in sims the stone is like 70k dps more

[hasty warren]

RIP KS

[frail veldt]

yeah probably, you can always just use crafted weapon

[chilly atlas]

is stone idol particularly good for any rogue spec?

[frail veldt]

mythic idol is pretty pog

[frail veldt]

its bis for outlaw in m+

idol + sigil is our best trinket setup

there are some close 3rd/4ths though

like warpclaw

[chilly atlas]

what about the others?

[frail veldt]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frail veldt]

this has all the trinket sims

[pastel otter]

yeah the MH isnt enough of an increase for raid build, and is actually worse for aoe according to my sims

sadly i also have lily in vault which would probably be nuts for the other 2 specs blizzard would prefer i play

[stiff vector]

I simd my myth track sacbrood(with its haste getting full value) against myth track antenna/sigil and it does actually sim quite close/well in both ST and dslice

[frail veldt]

I dont like sac cuz its kinda rng

[stiff vector]

and I alrdy have max ilvl idol, and it sims well even agianst that

meh a little high roll potential for the spec is something the spec could use rn tbh

[frail veldt]

I just want consistency haha

[jolly geyser]

sac makes spiders crawl on you

[stiff vector]

I may swap when I get myth idol or antenna but ill enjoy high roll chance for now

er myth sigil

[light dune]

so to be clear for sleight + loaded (but regardless of loaded) for container logic its roll if 0-1 buffs are below the container?

or 0-2?

also sleght doesnt change any roll after kir logic or anything right

[gaunt phoenix]

If you have 1 buff below the container then it is established to roll. If you have 2 buffs below the container, roll if they are your only 2 buffs. If you have 2 buffs below the container and 1-2 buffs above the container at the same time then... it gets complicated and it's not quite resolved yet .

[light dune]

ok gotcha, and feelscraft if you have say Broadside and RP as your only 2 buffs you can choose to not roll them over? but thats just kinda vibes?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yeah exactly

[light dune]

and DOES sleight change any logic with like if you get a natty 5 buff and Kir 6 buffs wait till 41 seconds to reroll like last tier

or is that still negligible

[gaunt phoenix]

No you would still roll immediately after kir

If you get two 5 buffs in a row...oh well i guess

[light dune]

ok great, thank you

i havent played with sleight but I imagine it'll feel better

when 5+ buffs are active its so much smoother

[vapid sundial]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[jolly geyser]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747561446539395205/1415072285311762452/ssstik.io_loverbboiiii_1757449913716.mp4?ex=68c1e043&is=68c08ec3&hm=5bf1c4a44289c84f76d950e2c5498af6edaae7909babccb911ab1a8eae4ff682&

[bright crane]

So is bm way busted in keys now

[vivid vessel]

it was busted before ..

[bright crane]

Yeah but is it WAY busted

Now

Busted, but make it more

[vivid vessel]

[harsh forge]

rolling is always a vibes based decision

5 roll with KIR up but the vibes are off just reroll

[swift hedge]

now i understand where i've been going wrong

[uncut stratus]

my only myth track choice this week, not bad, maybe?

[hybrid crown]

I would sim it but almost certainly yes if you have crafted main hand

[bright crane]

I mean it’s not awful

Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick

[hybrid crown]

not like it has icky mastery

[frank finch]

Solo I feel it would be more clear if instead of container you said yellow

[tight kernel]

Its a Antenna Angel right

[bright crane]

https://tenor.com/view/brother-ew-ew-what-is-that-whats-that-brother-gif-14318384540422820315

[uncut stratus]

i got some dumb ahh questions

[bright crane]

Then we got some dumb ahh answers

[digital tusk]

Who did I piss off at blizzard for this trash?

[uncut stratus]

1. outlaw CAN wield two 1h weapons right? Like a 1h sword and 1h mace (i only ask this because really ever since DF ive always managed to have a 1h and a dagger)

2. Higher ilvl always goes MH?

[bright crane]

Yes and yes

[uncut stratus]

teek you:)

[carmine ferry]

You play Outlaw, you automatically go into Blizz blacklist

We all have been there for a while

[digital tusk]

yeah that checks out

[unborn basin]

my vault was garbage too

[junior coral]

what are yall simming for dslice now? im at 6.39 mill

[quiet root]

at least bloodstained memento is decent i guess

[junior coral]

thats with just bloodlust thou

[quaint mauve]

priory neck is good atleast

[indigo token]

I truly despise being an outlaw roguemain

[late swallow]

9 interrupts on hunter

[indigo token]

its like

[fathom bramble]

too busy reacting to their 1 proc

[indigo token]

i know im popping off

[fathom bramble]

unlucky

[indigo token]

keeping uptime

doing everything right

look how many interrupts

and im just

doing awful damage

its profoundly demoralizing and unenjoyable to see

[junior coral]

is it "spreading the light" you do in hollowfall for chance at wep?

or the "nightfall" far west

[indigo token]

nightfall

[quaint mauve]

that’s dawn right

were you fb?

[indigo token]

tricster

[quaint mauve]

ehhh

idk your dmg does look low no offense

[indigo token]

[subtle field]

I havent played with the new tierset yet since I have just been fotm playing some assa. But is the gameplay much different from season 2, other then just swapping to loaded dice and playing around that?

[hybrid crown]

Swapping to loaded dice does change how you RTB maybe that's your issue

[mellow mica]

huntard player

[subtle field]

I dont have any issues at all, just asked if there was something else to consider

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/whoa-take-it-easy-man-wait-gif-15995490

[buoyant cosmos]

Prism feels good for m+

[frank finch]

@vivid vessel omg

[tender wedge]

How dare you expect the hunter to interrupt, he’s doing all the damage and can’t spare the gcd!

[buoyant cosmos]

Did they kill it?

[buoyant cosmos]

His /pets/ are doing all the damage

[frank finch]

40m hp wipe

[buoyant cosmos]

Brutal 🙁 they got the heart breaker out of the way

Now they can kill it

[tender wedge]

You expect a hunter to know where the damage comes from?

[buoyant cosmos]

Nope

[fallen mural]

Don't stress they will buff us soon

By soon i mean midnight 😛

[quaint mauve]

rogue will just become a 2 spec class to compensate for dh getting a new one

[fallen mural]

Ya we are getting light rogue as our third spec. Fighter of the light...dmg

[lofty cedar]

when is outlaw getting buffed

[spice gull]

in 9.0

[daring oxide]

@gaunt phoenix with the attuned to the aether buff, do things like depths get better? or is it still best to use radiant enchant?

[strong halo]

is it like impossible to get invited to keys as rogue, im applying as sub / outlaw nothing

everyone has lower io than me too

[fallen mural]

Next expansion

[fallen mural]

unYESEO!

[mighty pivot]

outlaw was stealth buffed

[worldly shale]

ye i just switch to sub on opening vault

[granite merlin]

lol this looks exactly like my dmg profile and I can’t figure out why the harder I try the same or worse I become lol. I just switched to HO to do same bad dmg but copium

[late swallow]

@keen belfry the type of mf to wriggle his fingers and go "don't mind if I do" after finding a steaming pie on his kitchen windowsill

[buoyant cosmos]

Are you checking your ADR uptime at the end of the key?

[granite merlin]

Yeah it’s been somewhat of an issue 🙁

[buoyant cosmos]

Do you have a habit of finishing before getting to 6/7 combo points?

[granite merlin]

I even tried installing hekili hoping it would help me

I do :0

[buoyant cosmos]

Start with that

[granite merlin]

Ty homie

I spend at like 5

[stiff vector]

dont forget, hell go to pick it up with one of his 5 bathroom towels so he doesnt burn his fingies

[buoyant cosmos]

I use nugcombopoints and changed the colors

Everything below 6/7 outside of stealth is red

Then it turns green at 6/7

[granite merlin]

I also can’t figure out why I don’t get as many bte resets as I used to

I sometimes get like 2 resets

And then want to die inside

[buoyant cosmos]

It be like that sometimes

[swift hedge]

is the difference between 5 and 6 that much

[buoyant cosmos]

Ace is only 1 in 4 when finishing with 5 combo points

[granite merlin]

Son of a!!!!!

Well…this def might explain a lot

[buoyant cosmos]

You still send at 5 points or higher in subt

[mighty pivot]

you still finish at 5 inside subterfuge

[indigo token]

the only time I end with less than 6/7 cp is to get vanish to keep adr uptime

[stiff vector]

the biggest thing I will tell you if you are relatively new to outlaw is literally just hit the dummies...a lot. The less you have to think at all about the actual rotation and the speed of it, and can think into the future about what youre goign to do next and pay closer attention to your buffs etc. the better you will perform. I didnt play my rogue much since SL until DF S2 and I probably spent a good 10+ hours on the 10.2 PTR literally just hitting dummies to get my muscle memory back.

[granite merlin]

HO gets me way more combos it seems

I need to dump hekili and do that

That I think gave me even worse habits

[buoyant cosmos]

I would play in low keys to help too if the dummy is boring for you. You can't really throw and you're helping people time stuff

[granite merlin]

Would you start with HO or go right into Kir?

[fallen mural]

Best advice target gave. Hit the dummys when your bored sitting in q simulator as outlaw. Warm up. Practice keeping your buffs.

[buoyant cosmos]

Warmup with a 14 flood like a real rogue

[fallen mural]

Some days be like that

[buoyant cosmos]

Did that with some friends last week, felt great the rest of the night

[fallen mural]

haha i have to do one target dummy rotation before i jump in or i throw a key so hard haha

[swift hedge]

i definitely don't do my rotation optimally, but i feel i have a relatively decent grasp of it, but my damage is so low, i thought i was doing fine last season but this season has been a struggle

[buoyant cosmos]

I think it's about the return on investing combo points and the break point happens to be 6/7. I think that the extra point talents give bonus damage for finishers too

[granite merlin]

French eviscerate really sometimes throws a wrench into my brain when it pops up lol

[fallen mural]

I went from 65-68% adr uptime to like 82-92% which still sucks but im happy with my progress

[granite merlin]

Daaaaaamg new goals

[earnest vapor]

how do you keep uptime that high

[quaint mauve]

the less mistakes u make in your rotation

[buoyant cosmos]

I just hit up a 10 for vault, I feel like it's more organic

[quaint mauve]

the higher your uptime will be

[fallen mural]

that's high??? Bro watch zak he gets 98% and then he tells you why he's missing 2% hahah

[buoyant cosmos]

Zac is built different

Wrong but different

[quaint mauve]

like youre always shooting for 100% technically

[stiff vector]

I dont think hekilli is really that useful for this spec because of how fast it is and because you need to really be knowing what youre going to do 1-2 GCDs ahead of time to be playing the spec at its potential, and Hekilli wont do that for you because the spec is too dynamic. If you follow Hekilli youll be playing extra reactionary and while it might not feel like youre reacting slowly, you probably are reacting .100-.200ms slower than Outlaws GCD which just adds up over time.

[quaint mauve]

my best was 97% on priory

[fallen mural]

Right now ive been more focused on rolls then ADR uptime

[trail cape]

sim say to take mythic chest over antenna with avoidance. need advice. Simming with 0 % miss

[earnest vapor]

i started playing outlaw yesterday and i fear my adr uptime may be in the single digit percentile

[granite merlin]

Would you recommend learning HO or KIr for a new person learning rotation?

[stiff vector]

mythic antenna with avoid huge stonks

[normal forge]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[fallen mural]

But focusing on rolls can be challenging so i noticed you want to delay your rolls a bit with that muroketti or whatever its called for the roll the bones weak aura

[buoyant cosmos]

Picking this up is not easy

[quaint mauve]

with avoidance is really nice

[swift hedge]

gonna have to work on that, i definitely finish on 5 more than i probably should just because it feels like a waste to send another builder but i guess i should try and fix that as a starter, i'm on the brink of rerolling just because i'm pretty sure i'm holding my raid back like a pro

[quaint mauve]

single?

bro press the button

[earnest vapor]

no

[fallen mural]

so its just practice when i started playing outlaw i was terrible, i would vanish and get one bte off and wondering what the helly is going on haha

[granite merlin]

lol we are the same person right now

[buoyant cosmos]

I think HO can give you a foundation / get you used to the high apm but kir adds some more thought for sure

[buoyant cosmos]

Try getting an addon where you can change the colors of your combo points

That can help reinforce good habits

[stiff vector]

You have to be a lot more efficient as KIR and think more about buffs until youve played the spec for long enough that you dont really think about the rotation or what youre doing with buffs and KIR

[swift hedge]

i've been playing kir but i heard it's a lot more punishing if you play it badly, so i might go back to HO and see if it helps

[buoyant cosmos]

Especially if you die

[fallen mural]

Ya KiR, you need a bunch of weak auras to make it work for sure haha. You need to track which rolls you currently have, if you should reroll or not, and then delay your reroll for the last second because you may proc a 7 second roll of another that you haven't rolled yet

[swift hedge]

[fallen mural]

And then you may not want to Keep it rolling because you know the tank is going to be pulling a finger out of his ass till he figures out his next pull

[trail cape]

do you actually have 0% miss rate with antenna? seems like simbait

[buoyant cosmos]

I think it's 80/85

You can look for a message from guy about it

[swift hedge]

the orbs move fairly quick and last for a while, so i'm assuming i pick up more than i realize

on antenna

[fallen mural]

no zak said you miss a few. The one run i saw him he had 68% but i think its much higher depending on the key

[stiff vector]

theres also kind of a lot of small min-maxes that you can do that people d ont rly talk about like squeezing in KS+double coup when you only have like 5 sec lefto n ADR so that you have high FF stacks going into vanish window and vanishing with ADR on 0.2s whereas if you played it safe you would have just vanished after KS and missed out on the FF stacks and extra coup CDR

[fallen mural]

I think 80+% is average on most keys

[torpid fiber]

and then u vanish too late and adr falls off halfway through

[frail veldt]

haha

yeah honestly outlaw has gotten a lot more free form the last couple patches

in DF it was so so straight forward like you could tell when you made absolutely no mistakes but now theres so many weird cornercases you kinda gotta make up rules

makes it a little more fun in a sense

but also can leave some awkward moments where youre just staring at your WAs going "uuuuuuuuuuh wtf is this shit"

[stiff vector]

theres just a lot of little min-maxes you can do that you really can only get a feel for being able to do once youve played the spec for long enough, because they arent things that you cant really afford to actively think about doing when youre learning the spec because youre already using all of your mental bandwith on just the regular rules+rotation while you do mechanics

[buoyant cosmos]

The flowstate is something else though once you're locked in

[swift hedge]

is there a reason sometimes i get stuck gaining 1CP per builder or is it just luck

[drowsy ridge]

Outlaw when you can just... PLAY is so satisfying

[torpid fiber]

I wish KS was pistol shot range so muc

[stiff vector]

you do get kinda high on your own supply tho when youre listening to JPC full focus on max volume and just blasting the meters and getting IO every key

[tropic berry]

I also started a couple days ago and my performance has been spectacularly bad

[torpid fiber]

Spec is really hard rn

[drowsy ridge]

I've been a Combat/Outlaw main since... Wrath. I'm still bad.

[buoyant cosmos]

Unlucky / misplay from being new

1 point of FTH is not that fun

[drowsy ridge]

It's all about learning, and making different mistakes

[buoyant cosmos]

You really want broadside

[torpid fiber]

In the past I used to say that outlaw wasn't that hard once it clicked.

That doesn't feel true anymore. This shit hard as fuck.

[buoyant cosmos]

There's almost always a decision to make now

Instead of just locked in after making a few

[stiff vector]

ye its not an easy spec, imo theres like...an astronomical difficulty in skill required to play something like BM or MM hunter in high keys, compared to playing outlaw extremely well in high keys. You can kind of get away with being semi afk in the brain/not locked in on those specs, but if im not locked in on outlaw its a big diff

[buoyant cosmos]

Bm needed that buff

[torpid fiber]

And I think it's really important to acknowledge this, because it's never been the most new player friendly spec but it's especially so rn

[buoyant cosmos]

To make up for falling asleep because nothing happens in ranged

[stiff vector]

gearing my hunter alt this week

[buoyant cosmos]

At least they're aware of it, but rn it's tough to learn and also get into keys as law vs sin / sub