outlaw

[proven ocean]

or someshit

[lone crow]

just go ahead, ask every mage

[proven ocean]

thats it

i dont need to ask any mage its obvious in logs

i know how bad sub does out of cds

[lone crow]

arcane, even with small burn, does low dps

[proven ocean]

its literal 0

[desert tendon]

@keen belfry hello you re every mage now

we gotta ask you

[lone crow]

less than a dance window

[desert tendon]

[proven ocean]

dance window comes like

2 times only

or someshit

between cds

ofc its higher dmg per "small cd"

[daring oxide]

@glass mortar you got any cooks for our upcoming apex talents?

[lone crow]

and mini burn comes once?

[proven ocean]

but arcane has way higher consistency

[lone crow]

no

im talking about a single dance window

[proven ocean]

ITS IN LOGS

XDXDD

[daring oxide]

or @gaunt phoenix anything you dream or envision for our apex talents

[desert tendon]

i dont even know what s the point of this argue rn

[proven ocean]

provide me a single log where arcane has lower dps downtime

than sub

1 log

[strong halo]

Arcane mini burn is a joke tbh

[proven ocean]

i'll wait

[gaunt phoenix]

Cto 100% proc chance in stealth

[daring oxide]

That is a nice cook i'd like that, like in our subterfuge?

[proven ocean]

and dont link me a random arcane clown

[glass mortar]

Nah true stealth

[daring oxide]

wtf

[glass mortar]

1 guaranteed proc per

Would be great

[daring oxide]

one proc per opener

[gaunt phoenix]

Rtb gives a 3rd buff at a lower duration

[glass mortar]

U stealth everytime u vanish...

[gaunt phoenix]

The apex talent MUST be about rtb buffs

[glass mortar]

It would just be the first attack

[daring oxide]

ok mr

[gaunt phoenix]

cause that is when outlaw is most peak and fun

[daring oxide]

yeah i think it will be, or maybe have something to do with enhancing SS additional hits tooo?

increasing % chance

[gaunt phoenix]

boring unless it is wits

[daring oxide]

hmm

[glass mortar]

What about an apex talent that locks a rtb buff in and makes u gain it everytime you roll

[glass mortar]

But just that one buff

[frank finch]

i will crashout if one of our apen talents is weapon master

[lone crow]

what are u linking bro omg u send full timelines of a key

hahaha

[daring oxide]

yeah, like Apex talent 2 can be (your RTB always rolls broadsides minimum)

[gaunt phoenix]

[glass mortar]

Mhmmm

[daring oxide]

you'd prefer Ruthless?

Solo

[proven ocean]

ur laughing and typing cringe stuff without providing any proof idk whos cringe here ngl

[gaunt phoenix]

RP is the strongest buff

[proven ocean]

its like talking to a wall

idk why im bothering

[daring oxide]

mathematically but i think BS is strongest based on feels and gameplay?

[proven ocean]

will just go watch a tv show brb

[lone crow]

xdd

[strong halo]

Idk what the point in question is. But dance > mini burn, but sub has non dance windows that are way below baseline

[gaunt phoenix]

BS prolly close and helps rng

For 1fth

not in raid

[proven ocean]

thats the point ye sub has way lower baseline

[daring oxide]

what about TB?

[proven ocean]

ngl typing "go play and see for urself because ur not playing" is cringe

u have like

1/4 of the keys i've done on sub on most keys

[stiff vector]

BS with 1fth>all, god that shit feels so bad without BS up

[keen belfry]

hey

[lone crow]

idk if ure ragebaiting again or not

[lone crow]

but i couldnt care less at this point

[daring oxide]

yeah maybe thats why ive become so thirsty for BS these days because playing 1FTH for like 6 months does that to you

[magic shuttle]

I wonder how much is the no ace build simming

[proven ocean]

its fine sub will be in mdi

also wtf timmy

ur the worst player no cappy..

not me what the helly..

[lone crow]

nevers said that, i always said assa is better anyways

[desert tendon]

I always said rogue is bad anyway

[keen belfry]

sub is kinda boring

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/true-truth-nuke-super-truth-nova-truth-meme-gif-16889273424352737553

[strong halo]

If you think sub is boring what you think of Assas??

[keen belfry]

assa in aoe is fun

[strong halo]

Yeah but on bosses I want to jump off a cliff

[keen belfry]

thats it tho

[proven ocean]

because it does nothing out of cds

[desert tendon]

Assa is as fun as outlaw df s3

[proven ocean]

thats the whole argument btw

[desert tendon]

In keys

[proven ocean]

awang

that sub does 0 dps out of cds

u only get 2 dance charges or so

thats about it

[keen belfry]

i always fuck up and never have 2 dances for cds

[glass mortar]

Do u ever have a pull with no dance in high keys thi

[keen belfry]

well not always

but like, i want to send a dance

[glass mortar]

The other sub said no

[keen belfry]

and do dmg

but sending that dance fucks my cds

[lone crow]

u always have dances

[proven ocean]

not really because u never send dance on a dying pack

[glass mortar]

How relevant is ur dps outside all cds if u dance every pack anyway

[strong halo]

You get small windows without dance

[glass mortar]

K well both the other sub guys said u have a dance at least every pull

So 🤷

[strong halo]

But at least every pull

[proven ocean]

relevant if the pack is hard

and u already sent cds on a hard pack

towards the end of the prev pack that is

then u have like

1 min left on next pack

[lone crow]

ye but imagine what, u play around cds

[glass mortar]

If the pack is hard and ur doing it without the groups cds ready thats a routing issue tho no?

[proven ocean]

1:10

[glass mortar]

Why do u pull a difficult pack without cds

[proven ocean]

im talking keys like eco

and arakara

there are no playing around cds in those keys for example

u just send mini boss to mini boss to miniboss

[lone crow]

u do miniboss, reset pull, mini boss mini boss

[strong halo]

I thought the rule was that you always send

[lone crow]

and yes u play around cds even in ara kara

[proven ocean]

ye but if u send say a pack where its 50% hp

u have cds ready

[keen belfry]

a lot of skill in sub is actual just when to press cds/dances which is what cooks me

spec is simple

[proven ocean]

u send ur sub cds

[keen belfry]

but requries planning on cds

[proven ocean]

and pack dies

then u go to a pack which u have no other option to go to

ur literally doomed

for a whole minute

[keen belfry]

yeah that just happens in pugs

[lone crow]

its a pug thing ure talking about

it doesnt happen in premade keys

[keen belfry]

most of my xp is all in pugs

where you are kinda at mercy of your tank a bit

[random stirrup]

well if you would wipe without having big cds on the next pack you would just have to send minis on the one at 50% no

[strong halo]

Assas in pugs is cancer too

[proven ocean]

i mean it happens even in premades

like priory and floodgates

[lone crow]

yes

[proven ocean]

priory and flood are very good assa keys anyway but

in those keys

if u play sub it can fk you up

they are the best assa keys this season tho

including eco

assa is way better in priory if u can pull anything on 2nd boss

[strong halo]

Wym? What would sub do in the situation?

[proven ocean]

that just makes sin rly good

i mean i played sub in premades

i had issues with cds i dont think its unavoidable

you'll likely replace the sub rogue before u figure out the cds

[strong halo]

I just don’t get what you do on minis at like 50% if you have cds, and mini boss hard pack is next

[proven ocean]

and the perfect sub routes

[strong halo]

Premade or no premade

[lone crow]

sub is a 1:30 class

u play around 1:30 since last season anyways

[proven ocean]

arcane plays 1:30

[lone crow]

because arcane also pops every 1:20s

[random stirrup]

if you NEED flag for the next pack just send a dance, youll get it back

[proven ocean]

all other groups didnt

[lone crow]

ye but arcane is meta

okay so

if we think about non meta comps then it might be painful

[strong halo]

Yeah but anything is saying that awkward window of holding cds doesn’t happen in premades I’m confused on what changes for it not to happen

[lone crow]

but u have a mage anyways

[proven ocean]

rogue isn't meta atm so idk how that'll change

[lone crow]

so u play around arcane anyways

[proven ocean]

arcane has funnel anythng

sub if u blackpowder ur cds

u have 0 funnel

if u evisc, on a lets say 15 mob pack with 1 high hp guy

thats a HUGE loss

compared to arcane

[lone crow]

but u still need to kill trash?

dont u understand

[random stirrup]

your prio damage pressing blackpowder isnt really that much lower

[lone crow]

as long as arcane has funnel in cds

its fine

[random stirrup]

you're still sending strike, sectec, coup into the big guy

[proven ocean]

ye but like

[lone crow]

i played the whole last season arcane

[proven ocean]

u still do 0 prio

compared to the prio classes

like i played dawn we had 0 funnel

we depleted dawn 18

0 deaths

only 2 healer deaths

[lone crow]

u also dont tell bamkin to not press starfall in aoe packs wdym

[proven ocean]

which were irrelevant

we depleted cuz 0 prio dmg

i topped overall but like

[lone crow]

i just dont understand, u dont let everything live for funnel, big packs need to die no matter if there is a prio mob or not

[proven ocean]

i know how funneling works

[lone crow]

if its trash that doesnt need to die u dont fking bp anyways

[proven ocean]

i mean i know how bp vs evisc works

[lone crow]

i know but u make it out as if every trash pack can live for years only for funnel

[proven ocean]

what my point is that if u evisc in that situation where bp doesnt do anything

[lone crow]

which is not the case

[proven ocean]

an arcane mage

would be more value

because it has giga funnel

and does aoe dmg

meanwhile sub is 0 funnel dmg compared to arcane/havoc etc

[spare dome]

can u go back to red name?

[tulip quarry]

Give us back restless crew and make us an Aug spec ? XD

[proven ocean]

idk like

my point with sub

is that it offers nothing interesting

like

[stiff vector]

what is zeross yapping about now

[proven ocean]

if u ask me what does sin do?

omega funnel and omega aoe

nice

ok

arcane?

omega funnel dmg

good st

what about havoc

GIGA constant dps

and giga funnel

[strong halo]

Sub ST is good tho no? And giga aoe

[spare dome]

sub is giga fumble

[stiff vector]

subs ST is ok in keys

[random stirrup]

is there no value in insane aoe burst to deal with certain scary pulls

[stiff vector]

nothinfg crazy

[proven ocean]

good luck ending up in the good st chart if the boss dies in 3:20 and theres a hard pack coming after the boss

[random stirrup]

like pulling around enh s1

[strong halo]

Maybe I’m just comparing to outlaw KEK

[proven ocean]

where u must save cds

or ur fked

[proven ocean]

wouldn't call sub giga aoe

it just does good aoe dmg

with no funnel

just pure pad

[willow portal]

what should i craft if i want to also play sub (atleast of the later bosses) ?

[proven ocean]

its just a matter of time till ppl stop playing sub rogue

idk why its being praised that much

[random stirrup]

mythic prism

[willow portal]

and how do i craft that

i got 1 spark and 75crests

[random stirrup]

magic

[willow portal]

also i got hc prism

[mighty pivot]

you buy fractillus dinner

[willow portal]

my sub gear is ok for now

but i want to use that spark

[mighty pivot]

just sim best crafts for both specs and choose the one that benefits both

[buoyant cosmos]

And go sin instead?

[willow portal]

might just have to go for glove craft

[buoyant cosmos]

Or just stop playing rogue

[random stirrup]

are you going to play triple funnel tho

surely someone has to do aoe

[proven ocean]

ye but

what funnel spec works with sub

[vapid sundial]

i started leveling muy hunter

i want to quit already

holy shit

[random stirrup]

havoc?

[vapid sundial]

this tank gave me cancer

no

the non racist hunter class

[proven ocean]

i mean sure

[strong halo]

Are you sandbagging like hunters?

[proven ocean]

it worked well for me

havoc+sub was nice

[vapid sundial]

in vortex he was holding the dragon in teh healing puddle

and made us kill it through it

[proven ocean]

but there are still better options imo

[strong halo]

Streets sub is the only spec that works

[proven ocean]

like

replace sub with a hunter

[strong halo]

oh true

[proven ocean]

or a dk

which is miles better

than a rogue

[random stirrup]

ye unlucky tuning incident

[proven ocean]

or a feral

whcih is way better than sub aswell

its pulling off crazy numbers

12m+ overalls

oh not just that

why not replace sub with a destro lmao

destro+havoc has to be so cracked

destro is actually nuts rn

[random stirrup]

and get rid of the precious atrophic poison?

[strong halo]

most broken spec in the game imo

[buoyant cosmos]

I'd rather have DK grips

[digital linden]

!bug

[ornate heath]

[Outlaw bug Thread](#1276315296159760467 message)

[dawn talon]

i think havoc is only rly crazy in comps w/ warr and no mage, like prot havoc destro hunter/dk rsham

[proven ocean]

ye true

[fallow sonnet]

forgot to ask earlier - why exactly is this, btw?

why is it 5 pts if stealth and 6 pts if not?

[lucid sandal]

I have 5 supercharged combo points?

wtf

[vivid vessel]

ye you cna have infinite ?

well 7

[lucid sandal]

Is this normal

[vivid vessel]

whats wrong

[lucid sandal]

Nothing I'm just doing hardmode

[civic zephyr]

anyone elses game freezes for like 5-10 seconds randomly?

[lucid sandal]

I didn't know you could do this

but I guess there aren't much opportunities in current content

[strong halo]

anyone have mouse over macro for cables?

[stiff vector]

hmmm do I try fatebound in this warmup streets key

[willow portal]

is crafting gloves with lens troll?

[crude flower]

Perma supercharged points

[lucid sandal]

That was so cool actually you roll cdr and just get more supercharges

[civic zephyr]

/use [@mouseover,help,dead][help,dead] Convincingly Realistic Jumper Cables

[strong halo]

ty

[crude flower]

Man's got super duper charge

[dense bolt]

cant seem to find spellid for lucky coin buff, any1 knows what it is?

[lyric crest]

outlaw good in gambit and such too?

[bright crane]

no but there are good gloves from hoa

[hardy thicket]

Actually yes

[bright crane]

^

seems to happen when a lot of thingns load at once

[hardy thicket]

Been doing it the past 2 weeks. Happends on pull on bosses

Already griefed a key for me. Got perma frozen on pull into dead

[proven ocean]

No

[hardy thicket]

Iuno how to get rid of it

[tender wedge]

I’ve had that start happening recently too, freezes then has to reload a bunch of textures

Maybe gpu dying

Very annoying

[hardy thicket]

Every time im just like I hope im not dead

[inland acorn]

Try 461818

[distant bronze]

does a macro like this work or having castsequence twice breaks stuff ?
'''#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null
/castsequence reset=5 Symbols of Death, null'''

(yes I have separate binds for solo dance or symbols)

[inland acorn]

I have those to, usually freezes once per day.
I read that it's due to some sounds not being cached and wow engine takes forever to load them for some reason

[civic zephyr]

same cant figure it out - maybe its a new built in feature

[inland acorn]

Wrong chat

[distant bronze]

oh right thanks sorry

[inland acorn]

check bugsack, if it throws error something script ran too long it's probably due to sound caching issue

[hardy thicket]

well how tf do I fix sound caching issues

[inland acorn]

disable sound

[hardy thicket]

well then I have no sound

[strong halo]

My god I hate arak last boss for dps

[stiff vector]

open your WAs and see if theres a bug indicator on any of them

[buoyant cosmos]

how'd FB streets go

[wooden sonnet]

KIR - This build does not use Ambush at all.

why is this the case?

[hardy thicket]

It does not proc CtO

and is just SS is just better to press

[red zinc]

or opportunity at all for that matter

or uh

[stiff vector]

I mean dmg seemed fine, felt decent on bosses but key bricked because healer perma floor pov

[wooden sonnet]

how much of a difference is it? seems so strange

[red zinc]

FTH not opportunity sorry

[red zinc]

substantial

[cinder relic]

A large amount

Ambush is only worth pressing with the talents

[buoyant cosmos]

I did a 15 last night, had 5m overall as trickster

tank was pulling smoothly which helped a lot

Took the pat from oasis into the mailroom which is nice

[lament flume]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stiff vector]

did 4m ST on hooktail, sad but feels good to do extremely mediocre boss dmg in a key

[buoyant cosmos]

I did a gambit and felt useless, couldn't seem to get close to the boss.

[sleek thorn]

how much aoe dmg do we lose using fatebound instead of trickster? i need to know if its worth to drop it just for a slightly less confusing rotation

should i lose my mind for a couple more hours figuring it out or just say fuck it and go fatebound

[gaunt phoenix]

Like 6-8% it seems

[sleek thorn]

thats not as bad, i can live with it

[gaunt phoenix]

Honestly

Fatebound in keys

was more annoying than trickster

[sleek thorn]

was*

[gaunt phoenix]

Maybe you get used to it

[sleek thorn]

i mean rogue has so many different things that some text just wont help me

[gaunt phoenix]

But trying to align ghostly strike with restealths

[sleek thorn]

its a controlled environement that doesnt really help

i see it yeah but when i do it its so much harder

i dont think reading some weird rotation faq is gonna help me, if anything it just confuses me

[gaunt phoenix]

If you ignore the ghostly strike stuff for now

Fatebound is super chill

[sleek thorn]

how even?

[gaunt phoenix]

Can slowly integrate it

[sleek thorn]

yeah i guess but some text about combo points confuses me so much

dyslexia doesnt help either

like i cant memorize that

ive been using hekili but i actually want to learn the class so i dont tunnel vision ever

[gaunt phoenix]

There's no video guide out there so yeah it can be annoying to learn the spec

[sleek thorn]

i know,

so many different posibilities and reactions to each one

its too much

i can barely keep up with one without losing my mind and trying to figure out what happened

[molten nacelle]

about FB, if i have vanish adrush rdy i wait for ghost to vanish+macro right? but if i have vanish and gs rdy and adrenaline rush has 20sec cd left do i wait to use both or just send vanish+gs?

[gaunt phoenix]

Currently you vanish gs

But you can wait

There was some findings about attempting to align them better

[molten nacelle]

ok

[gaunt phoenix]

Only if they are fairly close like that

[molten nacelle]

yeah thought that if adrush is longer than 20 i just send else i wait

[gaunt phoenix]

Looking like maybe <45s for AR

[molten nacelle]

as always appreciate the jobs u guys do for this spec/class

[gaunt phoenix]

Anything it takes to do the lowest boss dmg in raid

[craggy quiver]

[still matrix]

!key

!opener

whats the pre-key tech again lol

[molten nacelle]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[coarse lotus]

is there a WA to track my bones buffs?

[cinder haven]

one really annoying thing is that you cannot as easily use crackshot to get a little ranged window since you need to use GS

I swapped back to trickster for now

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[cinder haven]

We recommend the one in that command

[coarse lotus]

ty

[gaunt phoenix]

that's true

while trickster losing gs for a second is whatever

[cinder haven]

Also since you start crackshot windows with gs you sometimes get really low on energy

[strong halo]

You can use BTE and if you get lucky multiple

Sometimes with swirlies or something i have to step out

And then get really lucky

But 1/20 times lol

[cinder haven]

Yeah or saved up fth and adr

You can stay out for a bit

But FB aligns gs and vanish

So if you had to step out you cant vanish because you cant gs at range

[strong halo]

I wish KS had bigger range that would be cool in these situations

[brave fossil]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lofty latch]

Does anyone have data, experience, etc that suggests actually tracking fatebound coins to be beneficial and significant damage diff? Basically what im thinking is, with fatebound, dispatch has a higher chance to same coin than bte so im wondering if its ever worth somehow plan dispatch spamming (maybe right after a vanish window and you have stacks of SD?) when you have high tails stacks, since tails is more valuable than heads. It seems mega sweaty but im not sure if its worth trying to incorporate this into the rotation. (Single target / fatebound)

Im also thinking that if it is significant, maybe it only matters in a situation where you would dispatch instead of bte even with crit buff up outside of subterfuge

[cinder haven]

I have tried a lot of sims in this direction but didnt find much

Although the rule to only bte out of stealth with RP or if buff is falling off came from this

Maybe there is more to find though

[lofty latch]

Ohh interesting. I didnt know that. So this line of thinking has already been incorporated. Glad you actually ran some sims on it, I dont know how to tinker with the apl

[cinder haven]

There is not so much we can do to affect coins other than doing dispatch over bte I think

We could hold vanish+gs until high coins but we lose gs cdr so probably not

[lofty latch]

Yeah, holding is a rapidly cascading problem as outlaw haha. Well i appreciate the response!

[cinder haven]

Could revisit the RP rule, maybe ignore bte even with rp up like you say

At some level of coins

Worth a shot

[true thicket]

ive been trying outlaw for the first time over the past few days. it's a lot of fun, even if i'm getting outdamaged by everyone (I suck at DPS so far, normally a healer)

[lofty latch]

yeah i wonder if there is some breakpoint where that's worth it. 5, 6 stacks maybe

[cinder haven]

I should sleep, but running one sim

[vivid vessel]

wdym moonkin monthly

no one want to hear a boomie main talk about boomies every month ! !

[cinder haven]

At 3 tails it seems about neutral to prio dispatch even with RP

[sudden fulcrum]

Zac mad because he got gapped by a moonkin

[cinder haven]

Trying 5 then sleep

[lofty latch]

might just be the case that the extra mental load is not worth and if tails drops and you press dispatch again you lose out on the gains

[cinder haven]

Still worth knowing

[lofty latch]

yeah. very curious!

[drowsy ridge]

I'll listen to a Boomkin, but not Tettles

[cinder haven]

5 sims the same basically

Doesn’t seem to matter

Now i sleep

[lofty latch]

okay cool. thanks

[gaunt phoenix]

wake up !

[lime cloak]

I've been trying for a bit and I'm curious: Do any of you guys who are actually good at OL really do MORE damage on OL than you would on Assa or Sub? Given the same ilvl weapons and all. BC right now I'm always ~35% behind playing assa even in ST

[strong halo]

Well I suck at sub so prbly

But no way you should be behind in ST vs Assas think you’re playing wrong tbh

Especially 35%

[gaunt phoenix]

@cinder haven i inserted a dispatch,if=buff.between_the_eyes.up&buff.fatebound_coin_tails.stack>buff.fatebound_coin_heads.stack
and it seems a minimal gain https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dZ1CYGgcieQjY7s8YmEvpW

[vivid vessel]

whats the diff with just disaptching always when bte is up tho

[lime cloak]

Yeah thats how I feel.
Just at the dummy, trying my hardest on OL I'm stuck around 1,5m while with assa I just apply my dots and easily keep at 2m

[gaunt phoenix]

a lot https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aRYBTfmNLteRhoS4StHNLY

[vivid vessel]

wtf

nah you messed up that sim or

there is no way you lose 1.5%

[gaunt phoenix]

it looks right

[vivid vessel]

thats just rp bte?

[gaunt phoenix]

bte is always up idk

[vivid vessel]

thats crazy or

[gaunt phoenix]

no not rp

[vivid vessel]

it must miss bte refreshes

idk

no but i mean

fatebound only bte in rp no ?

rn

[gaunt phoenix]

that's what the base apl does yeah

[lofty latch]

minimal as in not worth thinking about still? or is 0.2% worth

[gaunt phoenix]

0.2% is about as low as it gets

[lofty latch]

ok

[gaunt phoenix]

it's kind of a running gag here

how things end up as 0.2%

and we're aww shit

infinite dps unlocked

[lofty latch]

hahaha

[elder phoenix]

On dummy? where zoldyck is up?

no shit

[lime cloak]

Fair point, but I'm having the same issue in M+
High Uptime on ADR, spamming BTE during Sub windows, trying to optimize Blade procs with Spree and using GS pretty much on CD and still only doing barely as much as I do when playing assa just refreshing bleeds every 20 seconds and only spamming Mutilate and Envenom.

Feels like I'm doing four times the work to get around one time the damage lol

[gaunt phoenix]

How do you use rtb

[normal aurora]

I've done a lot of target dumy testing to practice and get as close to my sim as possible. So far, FB ST has been the hardest and requires the best rng for me to get within 10% of sim. (Doing 10 to 20mins at a time to get the highs and the lows)
Its totally possible, just really hard

[lime cloak]

Use it once after combat starts after pressing ADR, then whenever I have 0 or 1 buff.

And also of course after KTR

[gaunt phoenix]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
(Assuming season 3 tier and Supercharger)

• Roll if you have 0 or 1 buffs.
• Roll if you have 2 buffs and Loaded Dice is active.
• Roll once asap after pressing KIR, as your buffs don't get rolled away. Use this weakaura to see when your buffs don't get rolled away (yellow border).
• After the KIR roll, continue to watch the weakaura as buffs tick down. As your buffs expire you may hit a point where your remaining buffs are yellow and you can roll again.

[lime cloak]

Yeah thats pretty much how I do it

[proper oyster]

Hey everyone, hope you're doing well!

I could really use some help — I’m struggling to improve my Outlaw gameplay. I enjoy playing the spec, but honestly it’s been tough and a bit frustrating not seeing much progress in my performance. Any tips or advice would be super appreciated. Thanks in advance!

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mi3mazmTTP1S1Ttz1Ugt9f

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qrdthgpxR9QZ428y?fight=7&type=damage-done&source=252

[gaunt phoenix]

i believe on pull you used keep it rolling on 2 buffs

you're supposed to wait for 4 buffs, or at least, the last second of 3 buffs

also as fatebound you're supposed to vanish into ghostly strike now

there's a pin about the tech there

dimensius is the worst fight ever printed for outlaw

you have to be very careful about uptime

you have a few vanish casts without adrenaline rush active

this can immediately screw you into being unable to retain the next AR

in phase 1 unless you are on orb duty there is not a lot that makes you leave melee

like here, killing spree is not 5 seconds long, there shouldn't be a delay

you kind of need to have a banger phase 1 as outlaw

[wicked obsidian]

Dimensius is only an a** encounter for melee or specifically outlaw. Don't know but the melee range is somhow buggy. Same position, one time i can hit him other time (after knockback or something) and you are out of range

[gaunt phoenix]

you kind of try to end phase 1 with AR ready or nearly ready without losing it

which is partly rng, partly playing well

cause if you dont have AR after you fly to the platforms you are legit doing nothing

[cinder relic]

Ppl say it's bad for melee but idk, feels fine as melee to me

Extremely bad for outlaw tho

[vivid vessel]

well the melee hitbox is horrendous wdym

you litteraly are always one pixel away from losing range

like when you soak, or dodge an aoe, if you go on far add or whatevr

the boss also parry btw

not as sub obviously

but it does parry

[cinder relic]

Most melee aren't swapping to far add

[vivid vessel]

I am

[cinder relic]

And by most I wanna say any lol

[vivid vessel]

but thats not the point

going into the soak

you have litteraly 1 pixel of moving range

you know how much melee range you have in the middle

i feel like thats the intended melee hitbox

and they just messed up the sides

[craggy barn]

we can cloak the loomithar soak line right

[cinder relic]

It feels a bit rough but manageable idk

[vivid vessel]

i mean

its manageable

its just annoying

also the hands

in your camera

thats like

idk

[cinder relic]

U can tank the boss in a way where it doesn't block Ur camera

[vivid vessel]

i feel like we arent playing the same boss im ngl

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

did u kill demondaddy

[vivid vessel]

unfortunatly i didnt

tomorrow

hopefully

[proven ocean]

what %

[vivid vessel]

29

% doesnt matter much tho

its just figuring out p3 and having people alive

then boss dies

we are almost there

[cinder relic]

It does tend to feel that way

Dimensius is one of my fav fights ever

Super cool and fun

[vivid vessel]

its one of the worse fight imo haha

[restive zenith]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
(Assuming season 3 tier and Supercharger)

• Roll if you have 0 or 1 buffs.
• Roll if you have 2 buffs and Loaded Dice is active.
• Roll once asap after pressing KIR, as your buffs don't get rolled away. Use this weakaura to see when your buffs don't get rolled away (yellow border).
• After the KIR roll, continue to watch the weakaura as buffs tick down. As your buffs expire you may hit a point where your remaining buffs are yellow and you can roll again.

[vivid vessel]

i dont like melee range in p1, i dont like that i can get randomly stunned by a mechanic that is not avoidable in p1, the sort of go to middle and stack up mech is super buggy and finicky, the flying part is a flying part i dont like flying in my fight, i dont like add phases generally, p3 is very cool tho i love it

[proven ocean]

69? nice nice

[proven ocean]

well

method had it on 20 something too

and killed it in 1 day

[worldly sinew]

These are 1 min no buffs 'openers' I've only been playing outlaw. I used a rotation helper for ASN/SUB on target dummy.. I get that the opener is ASN/SUBs best pump, but its just like.. ughhhhhhh

[proven ocean]

but they also copied echo/liquid so

thats why it took echo/liquid abit longer at the very end

no cappy

[vivid vessel]

i mean you dont really expect to do more damage in 1 min as outlaw than sub do you

[random stirrup]

You’re comparing 2 burst specs to outlaw in a 1 minute segment?

[proven ocean]

ngl no idea what those numbers are

[spiral bison]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[vivid vessel]

ye its way easier for us since we arent figuring out much

[worldly sinew]

Right, I understand that. I was just curious what all the hub-bub was about as someone who plays Outlaw only. and given that I'm at 47% vers with no real mastery % and Outlaw crit, I didnt expect to see huge numbers for ASN/SUB

[proven ocean]

ASN

[worldly sinew]

Like Wrong Stats, Wrong Gear, a 660 Dagger OH, and never played ASN/SUB I didnt expect it. It was my own curiousity.

[proven ocean]

wtf is hub bub

u sound like ryu rn

[cinder relic]

Stop being weird

[proven ocean]

i mean i dont know what it means

maybe im missing something idk

[worldly sinew]

Like, chatter.. hub-bub.. talky talky

[proven ocean]

oh

mb

[worldly sinew]

No its okay 😭

https://tenor.com/view/aging-getting-old-gif-9803364

[proven ocean]

i mean

outlaw doesnt like mastery

u can play assa with sub gear

but u cant play any spec with outlaw gear

[worldly sinew]

RIght, I was spec'd asn/sub with Outlaw gear so the numbers shocked me

[proven ocean]

my gear is entirely sub

i just swap few pieces for assa

[fair oak]

https://tenor.com/view/spazcat-kissy-nibby-spazycat-belly-gif-8364926603406280986

[lime cloak]

my gear is entirely sub too. Suboptimal that is.

[proven ocean]

careful tho

[worldly sinew]

You get invited to groups? 😂

[gaunt phoenix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[proven ocean]

nah i get invited just to get kicked

its like

extra flavor to being declined

[strange kelp]

They want you to know you were rejected

You might miss it if they just decline

[normal aurora]

Just need an arcane mage buddy to carry you into groups

[lime cloak]

You see, thats why I'm struggling so much with doing no damage as outlaw. I could just play assa and actually get invited into groups, but you people are more fun.
Dont tell the people from the assa channel I said that though.

[proven ocean]

dw bro

ur not the only person not doing dmg

[cobalt sail]

Outlaw is the only fun rogue spec, change my mind

[proven ocean]

maybe one day we get buffs

no cappy

guys

any minecraft gamers

im watching xqc he has a thirst bar?

where he has to drink water

[normal aurora]

I think that's just what we sign up for. I've only mained outlaw for two season now but I haven't had this much fun in the game since MOP. We want to be challenged and we gotta go fast

[proven ocean]

is that normal minecraft

or a mod

[fathom bramble]

one of the cringe survival mods

[proven ocean]

ah

[worldly sinew]

Outlaw: Zero Damage on Packs n Bosses
Top DPS Overall. The life

[proven ocean]

thought it was baseline now

[lime cloak]

POV: You're Texas Red

[knotty needle]

oh yeah looks like he's playing RLcraft it's a modpack im pretty sure

[cobalt sail]

Keep on rolling baby

[fathom bramble]

RLcraft is so bad

I guess it makes good content though

[lime cloak]

How does that work lmao

[proven ocean]

im more surprised that a mod made it to streamers tho?

we had alot of rly good mods in the past

how come now

[cobalt sail]

No cap, if they fix our set bonuses , we will be back in da game

[fathom bramble]

they need to undo the massive trickster nerfs

and buff the spec in general

[knotty needle]

yeah and solo minecraft modded streams just dont hit as hard

way better with friends

[fathom bramble]

it would be fine if fatebound was a couple % ahead for pure ST instead of almost 12%

[knotty needle]

but that's just minecraft in general i guess

[fathom bramble]

we just do no prio damage on cleave fights anymore when it use to be our niche

[vivid vessel]

its prolly more now

with all the new fb bug things

[cobalt sail]

Just imagine doing damage by throwing coins… can you? Can you?

[vivid vessel]

might be like 14 % idk

[fathom bramble]

true

[vivid vessel]

i havent simmed with new apl

[lime cloak]

I'm overe here looking longingly over to my assa spec doing 8 million envenom crits but refusing to play it because no gun.

[vivid vessel]

but ye its not

good

[fathom bramble]

alternatively fatebound could be adjusted to not have 3 different ways of making our cleave profile shit

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

oops

[normal aurora]

Having to take 1fth for aoe feels awful

[proven ocean]

zac

can u link

zerossthinking

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

ok

[cobalt sail]

Uncap outlaw, that’s it.

[proven ocean]

[safe pasture]

does anyone have any tips on why im constantly energy starved on ho feel like its only been recently really unsure what im doing wrong here rn

[proven ocean]

perfect

[vivid vessel]

to me the most pressing thing is legit fixcing ks lok btw

[fathom bramble]

uncapping(softcapping) outlaw while a good change would not be meaningful in raid or most of the times where you are losing

[vivid vessel]

myabe you havent played much keys

so it doesnt matter as much in raid

but like

when i do pulls like in ara

when you have a lot of mobs on top of the big guy

[fathom bramble]

KS hitting random things is crazy bad

[vivid vessel]

your ks does 0 damage

so you essentially lose 15% st

for free

[proven ocean]

well when realz talked about BF i think he wanted outlaw to be unique in M+ and do the most dps 1-8 targets

[fathom bramble]

it can also hit critters BTW which will make it not flurry since it oneshots them

[red zinc]

for free?

[fathom bramble]

rare but not uncommon

[vivid vessel]

for free

[proven ocean]

and not above

[red zinc]

karma for abusing critters in season 1 with coup

critters revenge

[fathom bramble]

I know

[vivid vessel]

issue with that is that low target cleave has much more value in raid than m+

so how do you balance it

cause clearly they cant

[proven ocean]

idk im fine with it being capped but

[gaunt phoenix]

i think we can have the cleave niche while not losing to brewmaster at 15 targets

[vivid vessel]

everytime outlaw is good at its target cap it get nerfed

[proven ocean]

i feel like it should always do more

at 1-8

issue is

[vivid vessel]

cause thats too strong in raid

[proven ocean]

it isn't doing more

at 1-8 atm

[cobalt sail]

ks does 0 dmg on murloc sticks in Gambit too

[vivid vessel]

eh

[fathom bramble]

if we had the 3-8 niche or something than sure

[proven ocean]

like

[fathom bramble]

but I feel like we rarely do anymore

[vivid vessel]

pretty sure i lose at like 10

[proven ocean]

if outlaw did more at 1-8

then im fine with it

[vivid vessel]

of course

[proven ocean]

but there are giga overtuned specs atm

that just do more

[vivid vessel]

cause thats too good in raid

[proven ocean]

like bm

[fathom bramble]

additionally a softcap does not boost our damage by as much as some would guess

[vivid vessel]

and they dont want that

[proven ocean]

and mm

[fathom bramble]

especially if we are talking 10 targets

[vivid vessel]

also i talked about that a lot

but if we stay capped

i want bf to be smart targetting

[fathom bramble]

true uncapped and burst specs are what wins on those packs anyway

[vivid vessel]

its becomming too silly

bf should cleave highest hp mobs

in priority

[proven ocean]

prob ye

good idea

[vivid vessel]

so you are usefull

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

even if you do low damage

[proven ocean]

like

[red zinc]

@gaunt phoenix i really wonder sometimes whether people always having a thing to complain about helps blizzards engagement metrics

[vivid vessel]

like doing a pack like ara first pack and i can potentially spend 60% of my bf to the wrong mobs

that dont need to be damaged

[fathom bramble]

I'm often reminded of anduin in these discussions where you couldn't activate BF because it would just result in some of the ghosts getting low and fucking everything up

[proven ocean]

if BF is atking a 5% hp mob and there are 15 other 30% hp mobs, then that BF tick would be so meaningless

[red zinc]

they do the same with game systems sometimes too

[proven ocean]

and do useless dps

like

that dmg

is 100% wasted

[red zinc]

its like they intentionally mess something up so they can come back and fix it later and get praise for it

[vivid vessel]

i mean

thats 100% real

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

you wont ever convince me oterhwsie

[proven ocean]

the problem ur suggesting

is a bigger issue on uncapped specs i think

well

true and not true

but

like

they hit way less on higher hp mobs sometimes

cuz they are soft capped

and on their real cap

they can do dmg on low hp mobs

but ur idea is good because we';re already capped

[vivid vessel]

i mean thats still better than doing 0 damage on the mobs like us tho lol

[proven ocean]

and it gives a good niche to a capped spec

[vivid vessel]

i think thats should be target capped niche tho

like

ok im target capped

but my damage is going to useful targets

instead of being wasted 10 x mroe

[proven ocean]

ye

[vivid vessel]

than a soft capped spec

[proven ocean]

that would be cool

[vivid vessel]

like you get fucked twice in big pack

both your damage is low

AND its potentially useless

cause going on wrong targets

[proven ocean]

i also think

the hp

should be in numbers

not %

[vivid vessel]

oh ye of course

[proven ocean]

to not waste BF dmg on 1 hp 100% hp mobs

would be abit weird if that was a thing

[vivid vessel]

i meant hp not %

when i said that

[proven ocean]

ye

ik ik

just pointing it out

to make sure

[red zinc]

we should lowkey move all this discord conversation to tarren mill trade chat

until blizzard fixes rogue

let zeross breach containment

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

[mellow mica]

jesus

i never see is in my life

[torpid fiber]

Twitter user Adeptxo single-handedly trying to save boomy reputations

[worldly shale]

dh fun

[worldly shale]

can we do the outlaw one

[torpid fiber]

4x sinister strike -> change spec

[open jasper]

Whats up with playing Loaded dice and SoH?

[wintry solar]

WOODCULT MENTIONED

[gaunt phoenix]

hows mine

[vivid vessel]

xddd

[worldly shale]

REAL

[vivid vessel]

idk man im just proccing

[late swallow]

so good

[late swallow]

what I tell my gf when she's got me leakin

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix

[gaunt phoenix]

[late swallow]

Général Hans, ils sont sous le plancher!

[vivid vessel]

[proper bear]

This chat has been proccing

It’s been 🤌

[worldly shale]

can we

proc

a buff

or something

aura

anyone?

[desert tendon]

wtf

are you frenching

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/pepega-baguette-gif-23574730

[proper bear]

I think this target cap going to high total hp mobs is straight up cooking

[proven ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1406415261082320947/ZacFetchRavenholdt3.gif

[worldly shale]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413245732118593606/image.gif

[red zinc]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

[vagrant saddle]

man i hate loaded dice, with sleight just send rtb before pull was comfy

[random geyser]

why cant 5 buff not be a pipe dream lol

[worldly shale]

there should be a guarantee we get all buffs at some point

idk

[random geyser]

DF S4 and LOU tier were the best just for buffing our roll consistency

[wintry solar]

Last Of Us tier

[random geyser]

i mean that has been like 3 expansions we just keep not quitting for whatever reason

[craggy barn]

im on araz prog now

o7

[ember goblet]

what ya'll think of mind numbing for HoA?

[cinder relic]

I like crippling for all the dudes that run

[elder phoenix]

if you dont like gs for M+

what should you replace it with

[wintry solar]

2nd rank of fth

[indigo token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413245732118593606/image.gif

[gaunt phoenix]

sad RP noises

[quaint mauve]

wait

i’ve been

thinking the skull is rp

i’ve been

trolling myself

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm

[tight kernel]

wtf why @proven ocean yellow

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

[fathom bramble]

I like how RP still has the shark fin even though it is not Shark infested waters anymore

[wintry solar]

I miss the pirate stuff

Gave outlaw a lot of character

[fathom bramble]

Run through/dispatch animation still doesn't work with fist weps

taking out the pirate/rapier stuff was very halfcooked

[wintry solar]

What did Shark Infested Waters do again?

[gaunt phoenix]

the same thing more or less

for most of its life

[long barn]

@gaunt phoenix - I’ve been looking at my Fatebound logs vs other high parses. In fights of similar lengths they have a lot more vanishes than I do. I watched the video I recorded and the vanishes never capped at 2.

What would cause this. ADR uptime was like 97% on both logs.

[random stirrup]

True bearing uptime?

[long barn]

Hmm good idea. I’d have to check

[gaunt phoenix]

Well everything affects the cd on vanish

[long barn]

What you mean

Ever sense I started trying to hold vanish for GS my vanish count sucks

But it also feels like it’s not capped so I dunno

[keen belfry]

playing fire mage rn

[ripe ibex]

playing arcane mage rn

[torpid heath]

playing frost dk right now

[buoyant cosmos]

Cursed

[daring oxide]

what addon is this awang

[keen belfry]

true stats

[daring oxide]

@gaunt phoenix how far behind is HO right now?

in ST

[low gazelle]

In midnight rework can they change the spec name to gangsta and change between the eyes to bust a cap? I feel like it could be good for our identity. It also fits the playstyle perfectly.

[compact narwhal]

sc/soh ho fun af rn imo

[strong halo]

how do people have wow look much darker? is there like a dark mode or something

[compact narwhal]

def a little behind but enjoyable with 2 fth

[red zinc]

Inky black potion

[frail veldt]

A necessity this season

Need it for eco and last boss psf

[mellow mica]

lmao

[fair oak]

Gamma/brightness values in settings

Very useful is darker areas like darkflame cleft last season to make it look a lot brighter or make area a bit darker on last ecodome boss to see your soul better

[indigo token]

dude

have you seen undermine w inky black

it looks so good

[fair oak]

I have not

I'm afraid instagram algorithm has completely figured me out

Some random ass info dump reel and I'm interested in it cause there's a kitten on the screen

[fair oak]

[quaint mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/kitten-gif-13225090997716353313

600 declines today

goodnight

[wintry solar]

[quaint mauve]

i’ll wake up as a sin player or something

[brisk lotus]

Hey guys i saw that Balance druids got buffed cuz they were doing low dmg in raid so they got an overall buff so that means theyre buffing outlaw cuz its deadlast, right?

[brisk lotus]

Alright, lock the outlaw chat

[strong halo]

Whats good dps on eco?

timed it t ho so ez

[stiff vector]

actually that seems to be exactly how it works at Blizzard, it just doesnt apply to outlaw for some reason

[frail veldt]

How good?

[fallen mural]

who good?

[frail veldt]

U good?

[fallen mural]

where good?

[brisk lotus]

Were not good

Were pissy

[strong halo]

Idk I guess is 7.2m overall mid? Good or low?

I beat warr I guess

Hunter only beat me because he had 30m on first pull

[fair oak]

Overall is cool but damage on important mobs speeds up the key

What's the damage to sentinels like, damage to pactspeakers

7m is fine on ecodome

[frail veldt]

its fine I wouldnt say great

7m overall you might start hitting a wall on timing it on a +14 ish

7m is def not bad though

its kind of an outlaw problem though if youre tying other specs on overall

cuz outlaws only value is when they beat other specs haha

[fair oak]

Besides 1st pull don't think it's a bad outlaw key no?

[frail veldt]

when im tying other people in overall I know im at risk of not being useful

[frail veldt]

yeah its def a good outlaw key you can do 10m there for sure

[fair oak]

Most of the key is like 7-8 mob pulls with a big guy

That's peak

[sullen wyvern]

Who has more apm fury or utlaw.

[frail veldt]

outlaw

by like a good 15-20%

[cinder relic]

Fire mage

[fair oak]

ironfur doing crazy work for guardian apm

[quaint mauve]

was your tank doing small pulls?

[keen belfry]

fire mage is funny apm

cuz the increase is just new soul window

lusted spamming of 2 buttons

[strong halo]

I feel like you need Druid buff or monk to do that, I only had warr

[strong halo]

In between some small some big mostly just chaining

[frail veldt]

you def dont "need" it

[sullen wyvern]

It's just I've been playing fury lately

I play slayer

[frail veldt]

Im just answering your question haha 7.2mil is fine but theres def room to grow even with the comp you had

[sullen wyvern]

and fury is braindead easy compared to outlaw

but its fast

[sleek thorn]

its too hard for fury players, spamming strikes rampage and execute too hard

[frail veldt]

well its slower than outlaw haha

[strong halo]

Fair ty for data, I’m just curious on where it stands vs timing 16. 1 min left def isn’t enough

[sleek thorn]

too many keys

[frail veldt]

by a good amount

its similar to enhance

its actually closer to ret in speed

than it is to outlaw

[frail veldt]

you would def not time a 16 at 7.2 mil

unless your teammates were doing well over 10

[sullen wyvern]

I think its just me trying to get used to binds

some binds are a bit akward

[indigo token]

yeah but fire mages apm feels bad

i hate spell queuing

[frail veldt]

you spell queue on outlaw

what

[sullen wyvern]

that should be

fire on combustion

cuz fire outside combust

you fall asleep

[frail veldt]

thats not all that true anymore I dont think

[sleek thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-mage-cat-push-bongo-cat-gif-14517434

[sullen wyvern]

fire does damage outside combustion now?

It's funny

When I started playing fury last week

and doing shit damage

I go and ask on warriors disc and watch some guides

I am so used to optimize and min max everything as outlaw

fury doesnt give a shit about ragecap most of the time

play slayer = prio raging blow

[sleek thorn]

haha 3 spells go brr

[sullen wyvern]

dont fall outside of enrage

no raging blow + 75 rage? rampage

sudden death WA sounds? execute

honestly the most annoying part as slayer is just watching meatcleaver charges thats it

[sleek thorn]

also bloodthrist wa

[sullen wyvern]

I dont play thane

so I dont care about bt

[sleek thorn]

yeah but stacks for bt tho

[sullen wyvern]

doesnt matter

[sleek thorn]

blud....................

[sullen wyvern]

you use BT if you have nothing else to press