outlaw

[mighty pivot]

I can do that even without a buff

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

look

hunter buffs strike again

💀

[vivid vessel]

💀

oh no

[ocean valley]

Sometimes in a pull I’m popping off and doing 14 mil DPS. Sometimes I’m in a pull of a comparable size and I’m doing 9 mil DPS. Sometimes I get a chain of BtE procs and expect my damage to be big and it’s just okay. I’m having a hard time determining where the big damage is coming from so I can replicate it. Is it RtB management?

[jolly geyser]

I did 4 mythics in a row last night at 1,unheard of

[vivid vessel]

its rng

roll luck

and 4p

4p timings

[ocean valley]

When and how should we be sending coup?

I’ve just been sending both right away regardless of CP

[cinder haven]

You can build more cp, just avoid sinister strike while coup is available

[stiff vector]

ye its crazy how they coincidentally just notice now that the spec has been undersimming "for a while" when its getting an aura buff on top of DR getting a sizeable buff. Which means DR was already very good ST before the buff, but all the BM hunters were sandbagging not playing it, and now its suddenly gonna jump to being like the strongest ST in the game

[shell fossil]

it's better to send under 7cp if blade flurry is down etc?*

[inland acorn]

If you cant build up without pressing SS then you send

[cinder haven]

There's rules for when other builders are allowed

Those still apply

[muted crest]

Also bm...no multishot in m+ just focus on stamped enjoy the pump damage...

[shell fossil]

i mean i still accidentally build killing spree to 7cp sometimes so i feel a lil better about that

[proven ocean]

thats what happens when u have extremely addicted theorycrafters like the rogue discord

over sharing everything and over researching everything

biggest example is the spatter fix

and a class that has literally 0 effect on the community in terms of TC

[stiff vector]

yep, we gotta start sandbagging nad being lazy with sims I guess

[fair oak]

what the helly

[proven ocean]

look at outlaw for example

most of the time we're simming the highest in the game

but

[shell fossil]

half of playing a dps spec is good keybinds if it's not a one button

[proven ocean]

we dont really do the highest dps

[shell fossil]

where is the fib
https://youtu.be/RCCchV3EtBs?si=XvX6SdxqmVzhoh49&t=93

[proven ocean]

we have ppl here just researching outlaw minmaxes 24/7

i mean

in terms of sandbagging

sandbagging is rly good

for ur class that is

rogue never sandbags really

thats why we're usually in a shitty spot

look at mages

perma crying

rework each patch

insta bis on all situations

[desert tendon]

Thing is

zero

[stiff vector]

I mean we need to be one of the highest simming specs in the game to even be medicore, the fact our tuning is in the situation it is right now and the spec not only isnt getting massive buffs, its getting ZERO buffs...meanwhile BM hunter is getting buffed into the stratsophere is just proof the devs have absolutely no clue wtf theyre doing.

[proven ocean]

💀 ret closing discords 💀

[desert tendon]

10 000 000 mage playerbase

10 outlaw rogue playerbase

people discovering that hunter / boomie sims are bullshit is so fun to me

they always been

[jolly geyser]

also why is 30man hc so shit to play,havent done any mythic cause I dont wanna really

[stiff vector]

I think we collectively need to just start playing 1fth Trickster on literally every single boss in raid, because apparently being one of the worst(or outright worst) ST specs in the game even when playing full ST just isnt enough. Need to take the BM hunter route I guess, and just purposely sandbag playing massively suboptimal builds to make our ST look even worse than it already is.

[jolly geyser]

30man raids makes wanna stick something somewhere

[shell fossil]

idk i figure it's intentional, rogues did pretty good this expansion

[stiff vector]

rogues have done well this xpac? Thats news to me

[shell fossil]

anyone else having to do new methods to deal with stagshells on ara kara for example? it's not bad

yeah the blade flurry bug on season 1 was bad and the raid in s2 wasn't great but we did pretty okay 🙂

solid b+ expansion imo

[vivid vessel]

ppl playing 1fth trickster on every boss to pad is litteraly the reason we didnt get buffed btw

[glass mortar]

that and later bosses don't really have public law logs yet

once dimi mythic has some law logs

[stiff vector]

outlaw has been trash in raid the entire xpac, and has been trash in keys the entire xpac outside of like last 2 months of S2. All while hjaving the worst hero trees, being bugged af, and getting entirely ignored the entire xpac. Devs get an F tier xpac from me, as far as rogue is concerned.

[inland acorn]

who would play mythic dim as outlaw lol

[glass mortar]

i should say if it ever has law logs

[vivid vessel]

in 2 reset im doing first outlaw log on dimmy

[blissful idol]

You killed ?

[stiff vector]

ye Ik, but im saying playing it on pure ST bosses too. Apparently thats how you get buffed in this game, cuz BM hunters could have been looking way better on logs if they were playing DR, but theyre all cooked and been playing PL. No shot DR goes from 0% play rate, to strongest ST in the game because of this buff, they just sandbagged.

[cinder haven]

Hanlon's razor again maybe tho

Why assume malicious intent when stupidity/incompetence could be the reason

[stiff vector]

I can only imagine how bad the statistics are gonna look once outlaw logs start getting osted for mythic Dimmy. Prob will be even worse than heroic.

[inland acorn]

Bold assumption that there will be many outlaw logs for dimmy

[jolly geyser]

you kill blue waffle?

[cinder haven]

Maybe we also have some giga st build that we have been too stupid to find

[pearl topaz]

may god have mercy on their soul

[inland acorn]

Idk when i'll get to mythic dimmy but i know for sure, I'm benched for 1st kill

[stiff vector]

not possible, our talent tree is too shit lul

[cinder haven]

I'm gonna sim cold blood builds tehee

[arctic hollow]

Wish granted, Greenskin's Wickers is back

[inland acorn]

Idk cold blood will do anything

Our abilities just don't do enough dmg

[stiff vector]

hes being facetious

[cinder haven]

I have an idea, but it's probably not worth

[inland acorn]

And the main one already has like massive 80% crit chance if we have RP up

[tulip quarry]

Bring dreadblades back

[cinder haven]

It will be super cursed if it works

[stiff vector]

there is nothing left to cook for the spec that will make any meaningful difference. Spec just needs minimum 10% buff, nothing else to it.

[arctic hollow]

Would cold blood be good if it increased our crit damage for a durtion instead ?

[junior coral]

is there a way to see other groups dmg break downs etc on raiderio or some thing?

[inland acorn]

maybe, defo better than what it currently does

but they won't change it, because sin/sub prefer current cold blood i think

[junior coral]

im trying to look at some big keys done and the dmg profile etc but cant find it

[muted crest]

Outlaw naturaly have good crit im not sure

[shell fossil]

idk weapon swap mechanic is pretty great, dreadblades on a cooldownj would be cool

[vivid vessel]

tonight or tomorrow

so then i do one recelar as sub still

and then the reset after

maybe

i can do outlaw

and get first outlaw kill on dimmy

or

[inland acorn]

i fully disagree, the fact that we even need gimped 690 ilvl item to do more aoe is laughable state of the game

[stiff vector]

if Outlaw isnt buffed by the time you reclear dimmy on outlaw, the season is just cooked for this spec.

[manic light]

hello, after the first sub window on pull should I use killing spree or should I keep chaining vanish?

[shell fossil]

no i agree, needing a 678 oh to not sandbag a key is pathetic

[inland acorn]

ks

[shell fossil]

but having cantrips on weapons is cool

[manic light]

tyty

[inland acorn]

cantrips are not bad in itself

[shell fossil]

it's just like where is gouge where is dismantle

[inland acorn]

gouge holy fuck

I forgot we even have it as a talent

[stiff vector]

were backing to being a spec that is reliant on cantrip items to do dmg because none of the specs abilities actually do any damage. Feels like DF S2 all over again.

[manic light]

should I clip KS once I get full CP or do I just let it rip for full duration?

[shell fossil]

too much emphasis on focus macros imo, it's not a clean gameplay mechanic to make outlaw players deal with

[inland acorn]

canceling is neutral/marginal dps loss, but feels better

If you're low on energy, you can just let it keep ticking

[jolly geyser]

outlaw just have too much bs to deal with imo

[cinder haven]

Only trickster 1fth really benefits from letting it channel fully

[real saddle]

shutdown discord, get buffed

[inland acorn]

Doesn't FB also benefit, just to get energy back if you're low on it ?

[blissful idol]

Prolly world first as well or

[inland acorn]

I mean nobody sane is pulling mythic* dimmy as outlaw rn

[bright crane]

Maybe we should get a wowhead article written like what was done for boomkin loool

[shell fossil]

grappling hook off gravity well mechanic is aesthetic tho

or the knockbacks actually bruce willis vibes

[vivid vessel]

ye thats what i meant

[inland acorn]

Like no cap dimmy as outlaw feels so bad, that I don't even want to be included in the 1st kill for my guild

[stiff vector]

I mean it feels terrible to play even on heroic, I dont even want to know how miserable it feels to play on mythic tbh

[proven ocean]

💀 nah wait for 10 more expansions 💀

[hasty warren]

is it better for ur to always chains pulls or having paused to restealth ?

I think it's second option but I may be wrong

[proven ocean]

for outlaw its always chain

[vivid vessel]

ye

outlaw thrive in an environnement you can perma chain all the time

its very snowbally

very momentum based

[proven ocean]

for delves or someshit u can just restealth since ur alone

[strong halo]

In that way it’s more pug friendly than Assas imo

Super annoying to play Assas with perma chain pulls

[shell fossil]

ye assassin right now especially hates small packs

[cedar kernel]

[shell fossil]

14m to 4m spread dpeneding on how brave the tank is feeling

[junior coral]

So for this offhand shit in M+, we swap to it on aoe pack and then back to reg on boss?

Can some one share the macro/wa yall use?

[strong halo]

Ye pretty much

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[cedar kernel]

team asked me to

[covert kestrel]

like sub is right there if outlaw isnt cutting it, and is giga in keys

like idk i dont think any of the hunter specs are even that great rn, mm is just high roll slot machine with insane variance, bm and surv are just ok?

[cedar kernel]

bc sometimes healer dont know they should stand with melee

or we always has interrupted issue

[copper radish]

FOTM

[red zinc]

WE are ALL gearing hunters

[stiff vector]

BM is definitely more than just "ok" in keys even right now. They do giga AoE, and still have extremely good ST...and theyre for some reason getting a significant buff. BM hunter gonna dominate boss dmg in raid, dominate overall dmg in keys, and dominate boss dmg in keys come tuesday, watch.

[muted crest]

Saw this pic today its bm rn...

[proven ocean]

Bro are u living under a rock

Bm is doing ptr assa dps

Gapping the 2nd strongest spec by 2-3m overall

And they just got a 4% aura and they discovered dark ranger is giga undersimming

Both bm and mm are the strongest 2 specs in m+

[vivid vessel]

before buffs btw

[arctic hollow]

You're missing the point. Blizzard is just bringing single button rotation BM on par with the other spec, just as it always was meant to be

[vivid vessel]

bm is quite litteraly the best spec in the game

[proven ocean]

AI tuning

💀

Devs just dont exist confirmed

[vivid vessel]

its actually embarassing

how they just

[shell fossil]

it's weird because hunter was good in dragonflight afaiu

like really really good

[vivid vessel]

picked the 3 bottom wwcl specs on frontpage

and buffed these

like

non sensical

[cedar kernel]

tru

[modest scarab]

Good morning all, had a quick question because I cant find the answer anywhere. When we do a Coup De Grace at max combo points does it perform like it uses 12 combo points or does it max at 7?

[vivid vessel]

12

[strong halo]

Buff mages smh

[modest scarab]

Thank you, is it better to just use it at lower combo points or wait until max?

[gaunt phoenix]

you try to build cps normally but you send it early if you have to press sinister strike. to minimize wasting unseen blade

[stiff vector]

b-b-b-but...Guy told me that they dont tune based off of WCL's, they have their own "better" internal numbers!

And everyone knows guy is never wrong!

[vivid vessel]

guy is delusional and clueless

he will continue to praise blizzard devs like gods

even when they continue to feed us shit over and over

[stiff vector]

so true

[keen belfry]

It is funny they actually just buffed the bottom 3 WCL specs

[strong halo]

I’m just surprised they didn’t do any nerfs

[vivid vessel]

they do it every tuning pass

xd

[shell fossil]

idk also casual guilds just like hunters

[shell fossil]

what would happen if they buffed riders of the apocalypse for dk

it'd break hella mechanics unless they upped dungeon pools/raid mechanics it's the same issue

[stiff vector]

casuals like BM hunter because you can just completely turn your brain off, dont have to think about managing CDs or any timings, maintaining uptime,your rotation, or mechanics(since ranged are exempt from doing mechanics according to blizzard)

[strong halo]

Keeping pet frenzy is hard

[red zinc]

theres skill expression in even the most braindead specs im sure

[jolly geyser]

for ret its cc so nothing spectacular

[strong halo]

This was a joke to be clear

[fervent scroll]

My raid leader looked at the logs of soul hunters mythic and asked me to play outlaw

[vivid vessel]

ye thats litteraly the only boss in the raid outlaw is decent

you prolly wont do damage if you dont know how to play outlaw tho

[fervent scroll]

Outlaw is decent but me as an outlaw eeeeh not really

Yeah idd

[vivid vessel]

its a hard fight

to play a spec you aint familiar with

keeping uptime etc isnt easy

[daring oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

Rogue devs racing home to send out our buffs for Monday

[strong halo]

Gingi playing bm hunters in keys now lmao is it better than arcane at this point

[vivid vessel]

my guy

it hasnt even been buffed yet

and its the best spec in the game already

[daring oxide]

Ya BM was already best in m+ before buffs

The no multi PL dire beast build is insanely good

[strong halo]

I mean arcane mage prio is giga broken and they do good overall this tier

[daring oxide]

Does infinite damage with good double stampede gameplay

[clear zephyr]

is this buff to outlaw official?

[vivid vessel]

[daring oxide]

We still have a 50/50 chance for something on Monday but it’s disappointing we’ve had nothing so far

[clear zephyr]

indeed

[magic shuttle]

Wouldn't hold out for a buff

Come back in 2 weeks!

[strong halo]

I think it’s crazy how long they took to come out with tuning

And it was shit anyways

[clear zephyr]

A lot of work to cause the least damage.

at least in raids

[cobalt sail]

From 6th to last, hope they do something

[topaz ivy]

This for me is the issue, this isn’t an easy spec to play.. factoring in the new shit we’re doing to try and rely on a bug to get flips to get some more numbers… it just feels bad.

[sullen wyvern]

more like 90/10 but sure

[strong halo]

We had it good last season we took it for granted

[elder phoenix]

did th ey fix the outlaw bug with AR and GS?

[vivid vessel]

no

[sullen wyvern]

maybe we need to close outlaw channel

we get noticed

[topaz ivy]

I hate them moments where you pop, feels good, vanish into mad BTE procs.
Look at meters and the BRM is on your ass

[stiff vector]

whats crazy is we can have the worst boss dmg in raid with full ST talents, and the wrost boss dmg in keys, and a shit damage profile, and be the only hardcapped spec...and that somehow still isnt enough to warrant significant buffs Blizzard only rewards the sandbaggers and those that threaten to close their discords.

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel mm op

[vivid vessel]

ye both specs

[stiff vector]

tbh looks like MM needs a buff too

[strong halo]

Bro I had a MM hunter tell me they suck in ST

[sullen wyvern]

you pop, feel good, BTE procs back to back, 5 buffs, realize it's a big pull with lust and your BM hunter is sitting at 30m while youre doing 17

[stiff vector]

I mean, theyre buffing BM...dont see why they wouldnt use the same logic to buff MM

[sullen wyvern]

[topaz ivy]

Exactly.

[sullen wyvern]

My issue with them buffing BM

[strong halo]

You’re generous with the 17 that depends on dices

[sullen wyvern]

is that BM hunter is one of the mouthbreather magnet spec

so you gotta be careful inviting one of those

[elder phoenix]

bm buff is huge

[vivid vessel]

17 is kinda highrolling @sullen wyvern gg !

[sullen wyvern]

hey man I've been at 17m

[elder phoenix]

https://i.imgur.com/RoNVdaV.jpeg

Bm buff lol

[topaz ivy]

I don’t care that other specs get to do damage, that’s fine; enjoyment is good for all - but the level of disparity is insane.

[sullen wyvern]

didnt end at 17m but ive been there

[elder phoenix]

shot its way up there

[sullen wyvern]

[muted crest]

They are lazy they just aurabuffing...

[elder phoenix]

it will put BM just under ele shamans https://simulationcraft.org/reports/TWW3_Raid.html

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel 6.1m darkranger undersimming btw

💀

legit bigger sandbaggers in the universe

[topaz ivy]

Not to mention, our primary ST damaging ability is a fucking coin flip we have minimal (we can, but you understand my point) influence over.
What the hell kind of design is that.

[stiff vector]

its not that huge, its just that they were sandbagging DR sims this entire time so it looks like its going from being unplayable(PL has basically 100% playrate even in raid) to literally the best ST in the game, but in reality DR BM should be simming around like 5.8m before the buffs, and then 6.2m with the buffs. So basically BM hunters should have been well above average in boss dmg in raid if they played DR, but theyve all been playing PL and doing bottom tier boss dmg instead.

[opal meteor]

DR bm would be simming at 5.3 mil with the fixes before buffs fwiw

which would be worse than PL

[elder phoenix]

So they werent "sandbagging" it?

[sullen wyvern]

guys wdym we didnt get buffed we actually did

https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/news/balance-druid-combat-rogue-buffed-mists-of-pandaria-classic-hotfix-378426

[near rock]

[elder phoenix]

rogues dont need a buff. balance druids though needed it badly LOL

[vivid vessel]

whast boss you on ots

[near rock]

nexus kang

and i'm playing sub

[copper radish]

how is an spriest only doing 1mil avg in a key at 700ilvl... lfg boggles my mind lol

[vivid vessel]

are you close to killing it

[near rock]

with no forge or prism

[vivid vessel]

oh

[near rock]

lol!

[vivid vessel]

you playing sub on nexus

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel wait

i have a crazy idea

[opal meteor]

depends on how you definite sandbagging, there was some damage from simc fixes found just before buffs were announced, but not deliberately kept away

[vivid vessel]

i would have expected outlaw is playable on nexus king

[proven ocean]

since keys require a dk nowadays

[vivid vessel]

its def bad but

its playable

[proven ocean]

why dont outlaw get a grip?

[near rock]

it probably is but I'm just over it

[proven ocean]

with hook

?

like

make it more streamlined

to other classes

[vivid vessel]

sounds cooked ross

[proven ocean]

i think outlaw deserves a grip

no

no cappy

[near rock]

rather be sub rdy for dimensius anyway

[proven ocean]

zac

like

[vivid vessel]

ok

well then

[proven ocean]

no cappy at all

outlaw needs a grip

[vivid vessel]

imma be the first outalw to kill dimmy

[proven ocean]

we have 0 utility

[near rock]

godspeed

[vivid vessel]

in 2 reclears

gg

good luck to me

[covert kestrel]

Yeah I've been on vacay for 2.5 weeks lol

[proven ocean]

yo luffy

[near rock]

I'm gonna do dimmy with a 710 main hand dagger and a heroic lily

[proven ocean]

ur the raidleader discord guy

or

?

[vivid vessel]

[opal meteor]

sure

among other things

[proven ocean]

no idea what other things but ok

[stiff vector]

hey, it could be worse. Pretty sure you could use s2 gear and still do more dmg on sub than outlaw on dimmy.

[proven ocean]

bm

sandbagging

undersimming

10m dps inc

st

fuck hunters

[copper radish]

cant wait to gear out my BM

[vivid vessel]

i did more on my sub rogue alt

no trinkets

680 ilvl or smth

on hc

[stiff vector]

ye sounds about right

[vivid vessel]

prolly even worse in mythic

[red zinc]

I lowkey think a choice node with the 2nd grapple charge to turn grapple into a grip would be fun

i dont use grapple that much though

Zacs gonna call me cooked

[vivid vessel]

yep

you are cooked

[opal meteor]

well I do wowhead bm which is why I was here

[stiff vector]

yup "undersimming" totally not giga sandbaggers who should have been doing much more ST in raid if they werent all omega microwaved

[proven ocean]

this is an outlaw channel cuh

[opal meteor]

well you chatting my spec, just poking in to say hi

[proven ocean]

i know but apparently ur immune to being ragebaited so i wont bother

[opal meteor]

pre-buffs dark ranger wasnt better than packleader even with the fixes in mind (would have been at 5.3 mil or so)

[stiff vector]

5.3m right buddy...right

[opal meteor]

you do you

[proven ocean]

6.1m

not 5m

no cappy

[opal meteor]

well that's post-buffs

[proven ocean]

u guys are sandbagging

u wont hide urselves hunters

we'll see u on top of the charts

[amber abyss]

Is targetcapped elite rage baiter or stupid need to know if this is funny or cringe

[proven ocean]

no idea what ur talking about cuh

[opal meteor]

Don't think I'll be convincing that guy but just wanted to put the correct numbers in here

no idea where his 5.8 mil comes from

[stiff vector]

"correct" numbers...right

[proven ocean]

theres a 6.1m dps sim

somewhere

for DR

forgot where it is

[opal meteor]

ye post buffs

[proven ocean]

ye well its op

[gaunt phoenix]

you really think there was deliberate effort to hide dark ranger BM from the world

[opal meteor]

sure

[stiff vector]

you mean, the sandbagged, "undersimmed" number is 5.3m

[opal meteor]

good chance the smack it back down

[opal meteor]

no the undersimmed number is 4.8 mil

[dense basin]

Yes and every hunter in the world was in on it

[opal meteor]

4.8 mil -> Fixes -> 5.3 mil -> Buffs -> 6.2 mil

that's the process

[proven ocean]

idk why someone would hide an undersimming spec

no one would do that its just unintentional ofc

[hollow temple]

double it and give it to the next person

just not outlaw

[proven ocean]

like

if its ret paladins

i'd believe that

they are a special breed

[elder phoenix]

Welcome to outlaw rogue. I myself would never ragebait. That's so immature. IMO

[stiff vector]

crazy DR gaining 25% DPS from 10% in buffs, guess its just magic.

[proven ocean]

but

oother classes

wont hide undersimming stuff

[opal meteor]

where you getting 10% in buffs from

[proven ocean]

ur probably the most cooked person to ever arrive in this discord apart from ryu

@vivid vessel would agree too

[red zinc]

truly a meeting of the minds here today

[opal meteor]

and the buffs themselves are like 17% to DR (+11.5% over the best pack leader profile)

[elder phoenix]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Your ragebaiting attempts are beneath me. I would never do such horrible infantile things. SMH

[vivid vessel]

half the people yapping in here rn are stupid

[proven ocean]

ye

[vivid vessel]

the other half seems to be bm hunter mains

[proven ocean]

can u all just go like

we only want outlaws here

ty

wait why is my color red

brb

[hollow temple]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1413245732118593606/image.gif?ex=68bd3567&is=68bbe3e7&hm=db605207b74b0298dc432a7aef3ec639c9d2f219a7523c007c37853efb8c0be7&=

[vivid vessel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[opal meteor]

you know they're usually the same people

[proven ocean]

ok fixed

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif?ex=68bd3230&is=68bbe0b0&hm=303a97cecf913928caa66ae1f21ebbdacaaebdedd322d6aa6e0be1f01bbec20e&=&width=611&height=134

[gaunt phoenix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[rain estuary]

assa since 1999 btw

[red zinc]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[proven ocean]

what the helly

[stiff glade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[proven ocean]

where was the meme

[red zinc]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

[proven ocean]

of someone being born and getting hit in the head and then making a hunter char 20 years later

[strong halo]

Bro I can’t believe I had an MM hunter tell me their ST was bad in keys. When banshees does 4.2M on last dawnbreaker boss

[fair oak]

It's super rng on dark ranger

That guy is an idiot cause mm st is pretty good

But I have bosses where I do 3m some I do 6m

[proven ocean]

@opal meteor https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/161c5ms/how_hunters_are_born/ someone made this reddit post few years ago

[cinder relic]

Mm is very high variance yeah

[proven ocean]

its abit sus but

[gloomy coral]

Ah yes, we only want an echo chamber. Good idea.

[fair oak]

If I proc a lot in trueshot -1 min on the boss

[frail veldt]

I heard warlocks did it last season

[opal meteor]

BM about to be similar variance (Not as bad but close)

[proven ocean]

close their discord?

[frail veldt]

no undersim

their ST sim was lower than like even an orange parse was last season on the ST fights

by like 15%

and people were all playing a different build hahaha

my buddy got memed on for asking about the build too in the disc like they were all being weird about it

[daring oxide]

90% chance we get a buff I like those odds

[fair oak]

Class discords are good to read pins and collect good cat gifs

[vivid vessel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1384149071106932799/1387523703100674100/togif-3.gif

[proven ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-cat-ghoul-gif-15685393113271845735

[fair oak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1402030891974393959/1402030892301553887/image0-3.gif

[fair oak]

My embed........

gg

Goodbye forever

[frail veldt]

you have to leave now

[proven ocean]

ye @cinder relic good bye

[proven ocean]

oh

did u mean forever

not forever the guy

or

[gaunt phoenix]

[proven ocean]

foreverguy?

[frail veldt]

lolol

[gaunt phoenix]

my cat

[fair oak]

Yeah like the word

Forever

[vivid vessel]

well thats my cat now

[proven ocean]

why does it look like it ate a dragonfruit

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[fair oak]

It's not that red but I kinda see it

[daring oxide]

Do really badly please so we get buffed

[fair oak]

More like nibbled a bit

[strong halo]

This is goat goat

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel dexter ressurection all episodes are above 9.0 imdb except first 2

1st one 8.9 2nd 8.8

just builders

[red zinc]

Im bout to be the first dimensius to kill outlaw

[proven ocean]

but still giga good episodes

[red zinc]

🙏

[strong halo]

Wouldn’t it be better if he just doesn’t lol. Imagine dime with 0 outlaw parses for half of tier

[gaunt phoenix]

mythic dimmy ?

[vivid vessel]

no

killibng last 2 as outlaw will bring down outlaw on wcl main page

[stiff vector]

you act likke the devs would even notice and/or give a shit

[vivid vessel]

its actually important

we do

otherwsie we aint ever getting a buff

as these devs are absolutely stupid useless

[strong halo]

Oh fuck good point

[vivid vessel]

and dont understand shit

[proven ocean]

blizzard doesnt give a shit if a spec is bad on 1 boss

we've seen it on tindral

nothing's gonna change

[strong halo]

Honestly the soulbinder just fucked us

[gloomy coral]

[proven ocean]

its better that way too

specs shouldn't be rly good on all fights

but

outlaw still needs buffs and fixes ofcourse

[vivid vessel]

no but this is mythic

and this is hc

[stiff vector]

Ignore the spec the entire xpac, spec is tuned like trash for 90% of the xpac, but you think these completely useless, clueless devs will somehow suddenly acquire a clue because of a mythic dimmy log

[vivid vessel]

and once outlaw kills last 2 in mythic

mythic will look like the same as hc

so we can finally get buuffs

[vivid vessel]

my bad cuh

slipped

[gloomy coral]

[vivid vessel]

he slipped aswell

pardon him

[proven ocean]

they slipped

but

are they wrong?

[gloomy coral]

If you want to test me zeross, remember you are on your last chance

[daring oxide]

I’m also playing sub for saladbar and dimmy too brother

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

no idea what ur talking about koffing but ur giga obnoxious to talk to ngl

[vivid vessel]

haha

[daring oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1357017048483631177/1403259473023205487/ezgif-60d90e8b5adbe6.gif

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-water-gif-19744162

[strong halo]

Ok that’s a bit dramatic, we were pretty good last season, but KS was cancer

[muted crest]

Ur our hero

[daring oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255110288081162311/1318256041112109106/catnum-cat-nom.gif

[gloomy coral]

Be angry at the problem, not the people. If you cant do that, you can go echo chamber in another discord.

[vivid vessel]

tbf it was only accidental

cause we forced them to buff us by fixing bugs

[cinder relic]

What

[vivid vessel]

yes

?

[proven ocean]

im not angry at anyone

[vivid vessel]

wdym what

[proven ocean]

idk what ur talking about

[stiff vector]

the spec was good in keys for 2 months. Thats been the peak of the entire xpac. Spec has been trash the entire rest of the xpac.

[daring oxide]

@vivid vessel guy might not be aware of that blade flurry dead targets bug we’ve had for years before it was fixed in undermine?

[vivid vessel]

ye

[daring oxide]

Which massively boosted our dps

[vivid vessel]

he doesnt know i think

[shell fossil]

tanks and heals need a hope dps to not abandon

[cinder relic]

I am aware?

[frank finch]

ofc he does he pushed the wowhead article

[vivid vessel]

poor guy

forgot already

its understandable

[strong halo]

But it was fixed early in season

[cinder relic]

What does it mean the spec was "accidentally good"

[vivid vessel]

with age

[stiff vector]

and its not even really just the tuning that makes me mad, its the fact they just completely ignore the spec...but the few times they did in fact iterate on the spec, theyve been horrible changes that only made our damage profile even worse.

[red zinc]

[cinder relic]

What the fuck does that mean

[vivid vessel]

it means

[cinder relic]

If the spec is good, it's good

[vivid vessel]

they would have never buffed us

we got accidental buffs

[strong halo]

That bug was fixed pretty early in undermine

[vivid vessel]

via bug fixes

[cinder relic]

Outlaw got buffed like 3 diff times in nerubar

[vivid vessel]

that we basically forced down them

[daring oxide]

My BM Hunter is 709 ilvl

I’m so excited to play it

[red zinc]

mine is 409 ilvl

[daring oxide]

Dam

[strong halo]

Like almost all of season 2 we had goated tuning

[shell fossil]

i like that you can just button mash on dev evoker and do okay dps in aoe

[daring oxide]

I wannna play DR in raids

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel its just bf not hitting dead corpses made pc ruin outlaw

we didnt know it was that op anyway

because it wasn't doing well

[vivid vessel]

nah

pc is juist a trash talent

[proven ocean]

what then

[vivid vessel]

everytime its good

[proven ocean]

well

[frank finch]

they kept buffing pc because we looked weak cuz of the bf buf

[proven ocean]

it is but

its just numerically op

[vivid vessel]

outlaw get nerfed to the ground

cause of it

[stiff vector]

goatd tuning=outlaw AoE being tuned appropriately so that it can be competitive as a hardcapped spec? Spec was still trash in raid

[vivid vessel]

its too good in raid

just a normal talent in m+

and they tune around raid

[cinder relic]

Outlaw was fine in raid lol

[proven ocean]

ye i know i mean i just told u before its a bad talent to have idk

outlaw was fine ye

[vivid vessel]

i fucking hate pc

[proven ocean]

i think its just giga terrible atm tho

because the main talents are just pad talents

(pc)

[strong halo]

Bro idk if we become revisionist and act like we weren’t good season 2 idk

[gaunt phoenix]

we were normal and then gained 15% overall overnight

[rapid ore]

everyone was better its over since bfa

[vivid vessel]

we were litteraly trash in m+ till the bugfixes

idk if you like

[stiff vector]

I said the spec was good in keys forl ike 2 months in s2, thats it. TWW has been terrible for outlaw outside of that

[vivid vessel]

dont remember

at all

or what

[strong halo]

Maybe I’m misremembering but that was super early in season?

[vivid vessel]

idk

[red zinc]

naw

[vivid vessel]

people were timing 20s already

i rmemeber

[red zinc]

halfway in

[shell fossil]

and here we are now

[daring oxide]

@vivid vessel did you ever see my silly cooks yesterday: #outlaw message

[shell fossil]

there's like different versions of the truth or something

[proven ocean]

well i do

[gaunt phoenix]

it was about a month in so yeah fairly early

[gloomy coral]

Think you can go into any channel and find alternative truths

[proven ocean]

i think PC needs to get obliterated

[shell fossil]

can't change that single target damage :b

[proven ocean]

its just a bad talent that hides outlaw's bad dmg

[strong halo]

Ok …. That’s still super early 😂 that’s like if we get a buff in a week or two

[vivid vessel]

horrendous, delete all of it you should be ashamed

[daring oxide]

wtf

I loved my apex talent!

Plus I made killing spree a single gcd!

[proven ocean]

i think ur KS cook is good

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean the point is that the bugfixes were pretty unexpected and unprecedented, would not have happened without wowhead grabbing the attention of whoever is above the class devs

[daring oxide]

Brings back mfd vibes

[daring oxide]

Thank you Ross ❤️

[proven ocean]

np

[daring oxide]

I mean on Monday all they have to do is nerf PC to like 2/3%, and give us an aura buff to compensate and buff ST and 8T aoe, maybe bring BF back up to 50 from 45 and we good

[gaunt phoenix]

we would not have received a tuning pass that would have been equivalent to the impact the bugfixes had on M+

[proven ocean]

pc should be 2% and moved somewhere else

or even 1% honestly

1% and move it to snd talent

would be good

i think

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel thoughts

[daring oxide]

Maybe it could replace triple threat

[proven ocean]

or that

[vivid vessel]

fucking delete pc bro

idc

[proven ocean]

snd haste is also bad

well

[vivid vessel]

legit the reason outlaw is bad in m+

[proven ocean]

zac

[vivid vessel]

is pc

[proven ocean]

1% is fine

[vivid vessel]

every tier

pc is good

outlaw will be bad

you cna screenshot this

[strong halo]

Fair I’m just surprised the sentiment here is that we were basically trash all expac and most of season 2, when I think realistically season 2 we were pretty good even if we landed there by luck

[vivid vessel]

it will be true in midnight if we keep pc as a talent

[shell fossil]

ye feels like a dead end being a trash monster spec

[proper veldt]

why is ross back to yellow name

traitor

go back to assa

[proven ocean]

zac i dont think majorly pc is an issue

its just that blizzard added alot of funnel to other specs that outlaw fell behind in funnel dmg

[fathom whale]

What’s with it

[vivid vessel]

i mean

fatebound whjole thing

is trash

and ks rework

[vivid vessel]

destroyued outlaw damage profile

litteraly destroyed it

[proven ocean]

well ye our dmg profile is microwaved for sure

[vivid vessel]

and then pc is jut the nail on the coffin

[daring oxide]

I honestly think though instead of being mad in here at each other we should post on the blizzard tuning forum posts and ask for outlaw buffs there

[proven ocean]

pc is definitely a major issue but

[vivid vessel]

being the worse talent in the game

[daring oxide]

Maybe we’ll get heard

[proven ocean]

i think its also us being rly good in prio in DF

[vivid vessel]

cause blizzard is too stupid to tune that talent

[proven ocean]

which masked us getting a prio talent

[vivid vessel]

cause we dont have m+ vs raid tuning

still

[proven ocean]

and other classes had alot of good ones

[vivid vessel]

can we have that

[proven ocean]

so we fell behind

[vivid vessel]

like for pvp

please

or

[stiff vector]

well itsn ot that a lot of specs got funnel this xpac, its moreso that not only did we not get any...they actually gave us reverse funnel and also nuked our prio damage for literally no reason at all besides incompetence in design.

[proven ocean]

that would change the whole game

in a good way ofc

it'd be very targetted to high end players tho

not overall

[stiff vector]

like our dmg profile was already bad, like how do you possibly make it even worse

[proven ocean]

ppl will think the game is complicated

if they do that

overall that is

[strong halo]

Who is WE. YOURE A SUB ROGUE

[daring oxide]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-–-september-9/2164604/1

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[daring oxide]

We can post in here, just ask nicely for a bit of attention

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel ngl i think its a good time to wait for midnight tho

im very positive that we'd get a rework

and outlaw will be rly good again

[red zinc]

the rework is real

[daring oxide]

Wrong retirement home muffins

[red zinc]

outlaw rework is a cia psyop

[proven ocean]

i think so yes

outlaw is in shambles atm and we didnt get much changes

so im quite positive we'd get one

[shell fossil]

outlaw is pretty good this season just get the boots

[proven ocean]

they can't really make those changes now because a big rework is like

expansion based

not patch based changes

[sterile summit]

House content > Outlaw

[stiff vector]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[proven ocean]

idk i'd be optimistic about midnight personally i think they're cooking hard but they aren't showing much

[shell fossil]

it's just bad st bad at right priory path in terns of utility

[daring oxide]

If they want to make changes I think again a simple talent tuning to pc and an aura buff to redistribute power back into BF baseline and outlaw ST

Is all we need

[gloomy coral]

Monkeys paw, outlaw is getting reworked. Now its a support spec.

[cinder relic]

They could also just move it in the tree to where it's not as costly lol

[daring oxide]

Doesn’t need midnight rework stuff

[daring oxide]

I’d be down for this

[proven ocean]

i suggested PC to be 1% instead of the current % and moved to snd giving haste tier instead

[daring oxide]

I wanna be a commander of my pirate mateys, calling in cannonball barrages and fellow pirates to do my bidding

[proven ocean]

i think thats a good middleground

[gaunt phoenix]

PC should jsut be combined into dancing steel. would still be less text than fan the hammer.

[red zinc]

dont even need to put it in the text, thats how they seem to like it anyway

[gaunt phoenix]

True

[proven ocean]

i feel like its impossible to combine it to dancing steel since it already does enough things for being a talent

[daring oxide]

Or this if they are willing, but this is something they can’t do for a class tuning patch right, thinking of something immediate in line with class tuning capabilities

[proven ocean]

worst case they delete it entirely

[stiff vector]

you joke about what could happen in the alleged rework but I honestly have 0 faith they wont make changes that most long time outlaw players hate, given their recent track record of changes being objectively and blatantly horrible.

[daring oxide]

When have they ever done a slight rework to talents for class tuning?

[shell fossil]

ye no crafted embellishment version of the nightfall mace is blizzards' issue 100$

[proven ocean]

i mean

they almost never change shit between patches

[shell fossil]

also a missed wow token opportunity but whatever

[proven ocean]

im glad they did KS change tho thats already a rly good step that requires patience i think

theres no fated so

[worldly shale]

WAIT

[proven ocean]

i dont think we're far from midnight at all

[worldly shale]

ALERT

[daring oxide]

I honestly think regardless of history, it’s always better to have a positive and hopeful outlook for future reworks or changes, most cases it can only get better if you try to fix a problem?

[worldly shale]

OUTLAW

OUTLAW

WHAT

[proven ocean]

?

[daring oxide]

Ross I like it when you have this positive mentality

I love it

[gloomy coral]

You are too good for this channel on jah

[proven ocean]

i mean we had the same treatment in DF vai

outlaw was abit bad pre DF

wouldn't say bad

like it was good but

in DF it just changed to become rly rly good

and no one really expected it

so idk

part of me tells me that midnight will change alot of classes

they usually do that every 2 expansions or so

[worldly shale]

u changed ur colors

[stiff vector]

I mean it took them 10 years to fix KS, and sure they TECHNICALLY improved it...but they also did it in the worst, and most disappointing way possible. So its kind of hard to be positive when the few times theyve actually iterated on the spec in the last 2 years have been bad changes, even if they were technically positive or improvements.

[worldly shale]

friend

[proven ocean]

ah ye

i hate bleed build

so no more assa

[daring oxide]

Nah genuinely I know us outlaws are looked down as the scum of the rogues but some of us are so invested in this spec becoming genuinely better and we yap so much about our dreams for outlaw

[cinder relic]

Why do you live like this when most outlaw reworks have been good?

[worldly shale]

i hate assa in general

but bleed build

is suffering

[cinder relic]

Like what's the reason for this mentality

[gaunt phoenix]

Btw that whole thing about bm hunters sandbagging is not going to fly here. It's disrespectful and already gotten staff involved. So yeah no, we're gonna cut that out.

[topaz ivy]

Outlaw was called out in the interviews recently, something along the lines of ‘outlaw is unplayable without WAs’ and ~‘yes we need to rework inline with that vision’

[vivid vessel]

because basically everything that has been done since tww has been the lowest amount of effort, and everyhing has been trash

[cinder relic]

Since legion the spec had changed a lot, and has been fun for a lot of different reasons

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

i agree

i dont think outlaw ever had a single bad rework

[manic light]

Is AR supposed to run out during a bossfigt?

[proven ocean]

like

all outlaw reworks were historically insanely good

[gaunt phoenix]

Not for long unless you are forced step out of melee

Or get turbo fucked by rng

[stiff vector]

what rework(s)? We had a half assed rework(literally admitted to be rushed/unfinished by realz himself)in DF which only reworked the bottom left half of the tree. What other rework? Idk how you could possibly expect me to be positive about the devs ability to do good for the spec when theyve continually made blatantly terrible design decisions the few times theyve done anything to the spec in the last 2 years

[shell fossil]

it can happen but being a few 6+ finishers away from ar/vanish/good buffs is the goal if it does

[proven ocean]

i think every class in the game gets a terrible talent or 2 every now and then due to small changes

besides i dnot think its just realz working on rogue either

so i wouldn't go as far as blaming him

[stiff vector]

Im not blaming him

[old gull]

Ks / fury of the eagle / fists of fury very unique gameplay

[proven ocean]

its just a bug fix that screwed outlaw really

[old gull]

Demolish

[stiff vector]

im just sayinf Realz admitted that the "rework" was rushed/unfinished in DF

[manic light]

So what does it mean when I have poor AR uptime? I am spending to few CP?

[stiff vector]

because they had to work on DH rework too

[proven ocean]

PC became overtuned and powerful it just fked up our dmg profile

[shell fossil]

admittedly hidden opportunity has been unchanged since dragonflight

[frank finch]

source

[proven ocean]

idk i dont expect them to change pc or anything right now

its not a good time for talent changes lol

[shell fossil]

set bonus dependent sub-spec for sure

[proven ocean]

midnight is soon its whatever

[gaunt phoenix]

possibly, but it could be lots of things. everything about outlaw works together to keep AR active. proper rtb rules, builder and spender priorities. every global influences the average cooldown on AR and vanish

[daring oxide]

Not really KS had never been a mandatory ability consistently in history, maybe it came in a bit in DF as an energy regen button and again in undermine, but we saw a decent rework (although it’s not absolutely perfect, the iteration of KS we have at the moment is definitely in the right direction, just needs further improvements).

Also being negative all the time, at least to me, makes WoW more frustrating to play and discuss here, so I think it’s better to actually be genuinely positive, especially if you consider the media attention we’ve had recently in interviews and Gamescom, where Jade Martin himself said Outlaw was being looked at for a rework to improve its accessibility and reduce its reliance on WAs which should be a very positive thing for us no? Like that means we’re actively being thought about now for Midnight which is only what 4-5 months away so potentially big rework in the mix is exciting and positive for me, plus smiling and doing silly cooks and dreaming about outlaw changes makes me sleep well and fills me up with dopamine too and smiling feels good

[frank finch]

[vivid vessel]

decent rework?

it doesnt even pass bare minimum

please vurai

[daring oxide]

I mean it’s better than the old version no

[proven ocean]

DF KS was really good btw

like

[daring oxide]

We survive now

[proven ocean]

really good because it was only used in pure pure st

[vivid vessel]

old version killed you???

[proven ocean]

and only for energy

[vivid vessel]

like

is this even a discussion

[daring oxide]

Well it never killed me

[stiff vector]

I mean you can believe it or not idgaf, dont think his chat logs are still here but yes I distinctly remember him saying it was kind of rushed because he had to work on DH as well. Either way, they did the bare minimum for the DF "rework".

[vivid vessel]

of course its better than a litteral self cc bro

[daring oxide]

Well it can only get better I hope

Maybe I’m cooked

[proven ocean]

DF rework was astronomical

like

[daring oxide]

But I’m actually excited to see alpha

[proven ocean]

it was game changing for outlaw

[vivid vessel]

how can it get worse

[proven ocean]

idk what ur talking about

[daring oxide]

If our changes are up early

[shell fossil]

as long as they keep kir working im okay with whatever

lmao

[daring oxide]

Exactly right

[proven ocean]

DF outlaw was literally the best iteration in my opinion

i enjoyed it alot

[frail veldt]

DF rework was pretty big yeah

[proven ocean]

and alot of ppl too

[daring oxide]

Ye

[gaunt phoenix]

kir about to the first thing they axe in midnight

[daring oxide]

People forget how good crackshot rework was

[proven ocean]

like

[frail veldt]

what I think was probably unifinished was time spent after the rework to address issues that the community found

[sterile summit]

Explain this then

[frail veldt]

they seem to do a rework then go on vacation haha

[stiff vector]

it was just crackshot+UHUH that was "astronomical" but outside of those 2 new talents, they really did not do much else.

[cinder relic]

Literally every expansion except this one has lead to a massive change with how the spec works.

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

when realz was actively working on outlaw i think outlaw was the greatest its ever been its just idk fked up atm since its midnight soon

[shell fossil]

nOO

[proven ocean]

like

if u look back

[daring oxide]

Realz is currently working on housing features for rogues and DH classes

[proven ocean]

i think there were alot of worse classes

and specs

than outlaw's current state

[daring oxide]

Making assets for rogue housing items etc

[proven ocean]

i know its dogshit atm but

[cinder relic]

None of you have any idea what these Devs do

[gaunt phoenix]

i think current trickster is very close to peak, just trickster and ks are abit undercooked

[cinder relic]

Stop writing fanfiction

[shy pecan]

OUTLAW!!!!!!!

[daring oxide]

I’m just kidding lol

[frail veldt]

I thought thats what were here for

to speculate and doom

[daring oxide]

You should educate us

If you know

[glass mortar]

nobody knows

[stiff vector]

I may not know exactly what they do do, but I for sure know what they arent doing and what they are bad at doing

[glass mortar]

thats his point

[toxic gate]

so thinking about giving outlaw a try, haven't played in a while ... any big things to note or worry about? I see the marco for the opener, that is the only macro pretty sure? for st/raid stuff

[sterile summit]

House content maybe

[gaunt phoenix]

i can tell you one thing, the devs do what they're told

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/just-think-about-it-marques-brownlee-i'm-just-saying-mkbhd-gif-14143028241686785294

[shy pecan]

Devs are fighting PM delusional feature requests and deadlines

[royal crag]

I think the devs eat haribo and make children voices

[glass mortar]

nobody but the devs themselves

[frail veldt]

truth bomb

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/true-truth-nuke-super-truth-nova-truth-meme-gif-16889273424352737553

Absolutely

[gloomy coral]

Yall kept saying this in the days leading up to the KS change too.

[daring oxide]

Anyways

[vivid vessel]

ks change came 10 year late and is still one of the worse change outlaw ever had

[daring oxide]

Have hopes up for Monday

[stiff vector]

huh? IS the KS change supposed to be some kind of "gotcha" LMAO?

[glass mortar]

is ks change a good example

[daring oxide]

We still have 3 days until reset

[vivid vessel]

litteraly ruined the whole spec this season

[glass mortar]

alot of people in here are pretty angry about it

[vivid vessel]

qutie funny

[frail veldt]

youd honestly rather still have old KS?

[vivid vessel]

to pick ks

rework

[daring oxide]

And in the past blizzard have updated class tuning on Monday before the reset

[glass mortar]

me when i manage to improve the worst ability in the game and still keep it painful af to use

[frail veldt]

new KS sucks for so many reasons

[proven ocean]

old ks was for sure better ngl

[vivid vessel]

meh idk

[frail veldt]

but I would definitely pick new KS over old

[proven ocean]

everyone kinda liked older one more

[frail veldt]

its not even close for me

[glass mortar]

of course anyone who wouldnt take new ks over old is coping

[frail veldt]

everyone?

[proven ocean]

new KS felt like a downgrade for me atleast

and zac too

[glass mortar]

but thats like saying id rather u stab me then shoot me with a gun idk

[proven ocean]

idk who else tho but ye

[frail veldt]

^

[vivid vessel]

the ks rework ruined trickster, and ruined outlaw damage profile

i prefer the new one gameplay wise cause i dont die from it

[frail veldt]

new KS is shitty with the new tier for sure

[daring oxide]

Assassination rogues need a lot of urgent bug fixes, outlaw needs some plus tuning, likely they are cooking rogues together atm

[vivid vessel]

thats about the extent of it

[frail veldt]

but old KS compared to new KS just as an ability in isolation is so so so so bad

[proven ocean]

thats the only upside of it ye

[cinder relic]

No what the fuck? Why the fuck would you guys get to know the information after spending 2 years speculating and assuming every bad thing that has ever happened to you is one man's who decided to try and be more active within the community

[glass mortar]

they ruined the damage profile by buffing the aura and nerfing bf over and over and deciding trickster would be aoe only again

[cinder relic]

Like be real for a second

[glass mortar]

kspree could have easily been tuned away

[frail veldt]

I think the issue is were conflating problems with the new tier with problems about new KS

[glass mortar]

they just didnt

[frail veldt]

our rotation got more crowded as trickster this season

due to double coup

[daring oxide]

Cooldown is too high so we get less unseen blades than before

[frail veldt]

which I think makes new KS feel worse than it is

imo

[shell fossil]

we're also rolling a lot

[vivid vessel]

killing spree is the reason i lose 600k prio damage in aoe

[proven ocean]

ngl realz deserved way more respect for what he did

[vivid vessel]

so idk about that

[glass mortar]

double coup woulda been a banger like the bug but the resource flow of trickster tree has defenitly ended up worse and awkward for it

[frail veldt]

nah if it was shorter itd be worse imo

[stiff vector]

took 10 years to change an ability that was virtually unplayably badly designed, to a long ass channeled spell on a high APM melee spec that also nuked our prio damage. IDk how anyone who mains this spec could ever twist that into a big W change by the devs

[frail veldt]

we have too many UB rn

[gloomy coral]

If we bully this one duder on discord, maybe we get the changes we want

[vivid vessel]

killing spree rework is also the reason trickster is so ass

[frail veldt]

in aoe its hard to even get through all your stacks

[proven ocean]

like

if i had 1 dev i'd fully respect its realz

[frail veldt]

I think its the new tier

tbh

[proven ocean]

for interacting with us alone

[vivid vessel]

?

[frail veldt]

old 4 pc and new KS was a banger gameplay

genuinely

I played that for a while

[vivid vessel]

they dpoubled ks cd

[frail veldt]

and it felt AMAZING

[cinder relic]

It's honestly discraceful how people in here treat him

[vivid vessel]

which broke the entire trickster thing

and called it a day

nothign was done

went afk

gg

[cinder relic]

Literally every bad thing that has ever happened to this spec, or dh, is pinned entirely on him

[glass mortar]

i mean ks reducing ur prio damage is just very silly stupid thingds

[vivid vessel]

leave feedback guys

[cinder relic]

It's literal kindergarten behavior

[vivid vessel]

go afk

[glass mortar]

how did it end up like this, did they actually run out of time

[frail veldt]

yeah but I still think with long cd KS and old tier outlaw played great ignoring any tuning

[glass mortar]

[proven ocean]

ye i agree

[cedar kernel]

so we might never have chance to get something really good idea, i think the balanced team also the spec team is different, so i can blame nothing

[frail veldt]

I always assume if its a bad change its not done by him lolol

[cinder relic]

Just weird parasocial shut

[proven ocean]

ngl

i dont blame realz for not interacting much

[daring oxide]

but I’ve never genuinely thought that was the way it was ever done, since development is always a team affair and it’s always very obvious if anyone watches any of the content blizzard has put out over the years about classes and design etc

[shell fossil]

talking to devs must be fun if you have actual stuff to talk about

[proven ocean]

ppl reply to him in the most cringe way possible

[stiff vector]

whose specifically pinning every bad thing or lack of tuning or iteration on him lol? Think youre conflating people rightfully criticizing the devs in general for doing an abysmal job with the class this xpac with people personally blaming him.

[daring oxide]

@cinder relic i do feel bad for some of the treatment he’s had from some in this discord

[glass mortar]

hey realz are you jorkin it?

[fluid iron]

they are

[dawn talon]

i mean like realistically it's just a corporate bureaucracy thing, everyone working on this game wants to make it the best it can be

[cinder relic]

A lot of this discord

[dawn talon]

but it's hard to meaningfully change anything when you have to go through a bunch of nonsense while already working with an obscenely large team on a game with a super old codebase

[daring oxide]

Also like chill the fuck out

[fluid iron]

especially when you get to feel the passion they have for the game while they talk about it

[cinder relic]

No

[daring oxide]

You rage so easily

Not even picking a fight

So dumb

[gloomy coral]

Cant say I blame him having to wade through much of the nonsense posted here on the daily

[frail veldt]

the recent changes to outlaw especially this xpac to me make it seem like theres just tickets assigned to make changes that get misinterpreted by lower level developers that dont know the spec that well. Like they could have had the goal of "make haste more important for outlaw" and that was translated into the haste tax. Or in the KS rework they may have had a goal of slowing outlaw down or giving breathing time like old KS technically did so they kept that in the new one without realizing how it might feel to play

[jolly geyser]

wonder how people here would talk if outlaw was fotm and the 2 other specs would be shit

[daring oxide]

Ya sure but it’s also easy to control and direct anger at the right people than just exploding at any question

[frail veldt]

im not sure who here is pointing fingers that hard at realz rn

[proven ocean]

season 3 DF

[glass mortar]

i mean discord servers are open to all types and when realz is in here quite often we get a lot of randos that dont generally post responding to him saying cringe stuff

[proven ocean]

it was normal

[frail veldt]

I think theres a few bad actors but that doesnt seem like the overall sentiment

[proven ocean]

i dont think anyone cared

[worldly sinew]

I hate being fotm. TBH. I jus twant us to middle of the pack with high skill players peaking.

[stiff vector]

Guy cant miss an opportunty to be self righteous and holier than thou and glaze anything related to blizzard. People rarely ever even directly mention Realz in here, let alone overtly disrespect him so idk what youre crashing out about

[proven ocean]

when outlaw was good

[strong halo]

Does someone have the zero screenshot of BM

[proven ocean]

like

[daring oxide]

Just a little pathetic tbh

[proven ocean]

usually outlaws are the m+ players @jolly geyser