outlaw

[buoyant cosmos]

Zac rn

[mighty pivot]

zac is truly outlaw jesus

[vivid vessel]

But I would throw all the remainder of my money away to them

I don't use it

[copper radish]

Zac send Blizz ur resume

[lucid sandal]

Hello I'm blizzard throw all money at me I will fix outlaw for sure

[mighty pivot]

imagine if class buffs were based on which class' playerbase donates/bribes the devs more

[vivid vessel]

Realz dm me we can work it out (you blocked me please unblock)

[copper radish]

Warlocks been doing this for 20 years

[lucid sandal]

Better than being based on which discord goes on strike tbh

[copper radish]

Oh damn is that why outlaw sucks this season? 😂

[mighty pivot]

it was payback

[vapid sundial]

did he actually

lmnfao

[fresh orchid]

am I doing sims right, is having offhand dagger dmg increase around 1%

[vapid sundial]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[gaunt phoenix]

compared to an identical sword? shouldn't be that much

[fresh orchid]

i put everforged longsword and everforged stabber

3.4% and 4.1%

[gaunt phoenix]

can you link it

[fresh orchid]

I'm afraid to link it, probably I do something wrong hahah

but I did patchwerk 8 targets

5 mins

[vapid sundial]

ew

[glass mortar]

well we cant tell if you dont link it

[vapid sundial]

never do that

[gaunt phoenix]

i will ban you !

[vapid sundial]

!!

[fresh orchid]

🙁

[vapid sundial]

PW aoe sims are cursed

[mighty pivot]

making mistakes is illegal here

[glass mortar]

i use PW aoe sims

[vapid sundial]

me when i want to pad my sim

[gaunt phoenix]

i want to see what happened, not to be like "haha ur wrong"

[glass mortar]

yea solo is good and nice

the rest of us wanna point and go haha ur wrong

😠

[fresh orchid]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dzgaQDwtVrRjxTEhvNNbM2

lets go

flamefest start now

😄

[vapid sundial]

no too busy playing silksong

cant look at sim

just wanted to shit post a bit

[late swallow]

5 min patchwerk 8 target sim

[daring oxide]

did he actually block you, have u tried DMing him lmao

[mighty pivot]

embellishment

[fresh orchid]

ah im missing sword embeli

[glass mortar]

in what combo is it directly comparing an oh dagger to an oh sword with the same stats/embellishment status

yea

i dont see a proper comparison of that

[gaunt phoenix]

haha ur wrong !

[vapid sundial]

lololo

bozo

!!!

[mighty pivot]

[late swallow]

do you want me to ping him to double check if he blocked you?

[glass mortar]

remember today as the day you found out how toxic outlaw discord is

!!!

now ban him solo!

we dont like bad simmers in here

😠

[daring oxide]

i dare ya

[late swallow]

@realzz

[glass mortar]

u guys know zac was trolling right

[vapid sundial]

no

i wouldnt be shocked

[glass mortar]

zac is legally not even allowed to dm realz due to the irl restraining order

[vapid sundial]

if realz blocked him

[glass mortar]

its kinda obvious no?

[mighty pivot]

start banning 5 people a day until outlaw is buffed. start with me

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/samurai-harakiri-gif-14785494

[vapid sundial]

@ koffing

he likes to ban people

he will get to you

[daring oxide]

@vivid vessel dm Jade Martin hes the new outlaw reworker

[fresh orchid]

thanks everyone, I'm dumb, but that was expected outcome

🙂

[vapid sundial]

[daring oxide]

its ok we often loan braincells to help fellow outlaws

[mighty pivot]

but now you know to be less dumb next time

[vapid sundial]

If you PW aoe sim again

[fresh orchid]

you wish 😄

[vapid sundial]

i will swallow your soul

fr

[glass mortar]

its ok now aday theres about a 20% chance sim results were outlandish not because of user error but because it decided to randomly throw the third lowest combo into low precision mode to save raidbots the effort of actually accuratly telling u what the best combos are

[fresh orchid]

how you sim aoe? please dont say mdt

[glass mortar]

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-dwayne-johnson-raised-eyebrow-gif-6506694932635492760

[vapid sundial]

Dungeon slice

[glass mortar]

pw aoe is fine

[vapid sundial]

cursed

[glass mortar]

just keep in mind ur not always hitting 8 targets

[late swallow]

aren't you though?

[vapid sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-dead-the-evil-dead-ash-gif-20512533

[glass mortar]

if ur simming patchwerk ur simming 1t and 8t and telling how things scale with additional targets then making educated decisions

many people prefer just throwing it into dslice and taking that as gospel

ive never rlly done that but it works well enough

[fresh orchid]

to be fair

I wasnt sure if PW will work good enough

so I did dungeon slice also few hours ago

[vapid sundial]

I just always default to Dslice

[glass mortar]

i mean its not accuratly modeling dungeon aoe for u

[fresh orchid]

and result was the same

[glass mortar]

its just telling u whats best at 8 targets

[daring oxide]

guys

i just got a message

[fresh orchid]

not the same percentage wise, but the same which was the best pick

[glass mortar]

yea

[daring oxide]

from zlaer

[gaunt phoenix]

our gear is going to be the same everywhere

[daring oxide]

that we are getting a buff tomorrow

[mighty pivot]

we are getting a buff tonight

[gaunt phoenix]

except for trinkets

[daring oxide]

its tomorrow

[fresh orchid]

and why I didnt pick dungeon slice as a source of truth

dungeon slice doesnt implement chain pulls well

[glass mortar]

chain pulling vs regular isnt rlly gunna impact the value of the stuff u care about in aoe vs st tho

which is going to be trinkets

[cinder relic]

And patchwork 8 targets would?

[glass mortar]

unless theres a trinket that involves keeping perma combat i guess

[vapid sundial]

guy is here

fun is over

[glass mortar]

like that silly thing last season

[vapid sundial]

everyone run

[glass mortar]

i dont think we have any stuff like that this season tho

[daring oxide]

[feral grove]

hey guys one of u went into assassination chat can u take him back we dont wanna read his cries anymore.

[frank finch]

how important is ks for fb

[daring oxide]

No Zac is our hypersonic missile aimed to sink the assa ship once in a while

[late swallow]

@proven ocean Like you legit some 3k io clown

[feral grove]

but focus sub come on like I dont care about them neither

[cedar kernel]

i found its very hard to find a suitable team to push together

[daring oxide]

just get a full phys comp

[vivid vessel]

idk

was I

like i dont know if he blocked me

or if he just dont allow dms

[glass mortar]

yea we both know after the lawsuit ur not even allowed to dm him anymore

good troll tho

[cedar kernel]

i cant find my path rn

vai

its like i have one but we argued

[royal ermine]

just go to one of his old messages

[cedar kernel]

just sad

[royal ermine]

if you can reaction emote it you're not blocked

[cedar kernel]

tank said its not my main issue but

[glass mortar]

my assumption was the second

[vivid vessel]

maybe

[cedar kernel]

we just cant push a 15+ successfully made him angry

[vivid vessel]

but i think i tried dming him like

a few tiers back

[glass mortar]

i dont know tho cause im not brainbroken enough to try to dm someone who is known to be a dev in a discord

[vivid vessel]

to send him some feedback

and then it didnt work

so

[glass mortar]

unless they dm'd me about something first

[vivid vessel]

i legit do not care

i snet him long feedbacks

[late swallow]

i DM realz all the time wdym

[vivid vessel]

since the start he has been here

[lone crow]

his dms were not closed when i was talking to him back then in df

[vivid vessel]

he never answered

[buoyant cosmos]

That's why we never get anything done

[vivid vessel]

but im allowed

ye in df

[glass mortar]

yea im sure thats why

[vivid vessel]

but now i cant anymore

or so i think

[buoyant cosmos]

[cedar kernel]

[fluid iron]

dono walled

get rekt

scrub

[vivid vessel]

eh

idc much

[proven ocean]

u do care

we all know that

[vivid vessel]

i dont care

[glass mortar]

he probably just changed his profile to accept dms from friends only

doubt he blocked u directly

[fluid iron]

i yapped a bit with him during RWF about coup being weird

thats about it for the last year and a half

[vivid vessel]

like i cared in df

but i lost hope in realz

a long time ago now

he aint my dev anymore

[proven ocean]

ngl

hes microwaved

no offense

but

every change he does is always the opposite of what the class needs idk

[vapid sundial]

i mean

they just monkeyt paw us

at every turn possible

[vivid vessel]

you wont ever convince me they spent more than 5 min thinking about killing spree rework

[glass mortar]

i wouldnt try i agree with u

[vivid vessel]

and then taking every single bad decision possible about it

[frail veldt]

jeez whatd I miss

[vivid vessel]

its just bad work

all around

[proven ocean]

ye

[glass mortar]

idk how much of whats happened in the last expac can be put on realz specifically tho

[proven ocean]

it is what it is

[vivid vessel]

legit incompetence

[proven ocean]

like

we gave feedback zac

but

0 response

xd

like

[glass mortar]

we have no idea what people r involved with rogue design or if any rogue design was even allowed since df

[proven ocean]

we had fixes

to the 2nd ks

[vapid sundial]

KS rework had the chance to be good.

[proven ocean]

but

[vivid vessel]

ok but thats why i said

[proven ocean]

it remained unfinished

[vivid vessel]

he aint my dev anymore

[glass mortar]

sure

[vivid vessel]

i think he did things in df

i think in tww

he either became washed up ++

or he prolly havent participated

like he used to

or whatever the fuck happened

its jsut not the same

[proven ocean]

i agree

[vivid vessel]

full dogshit from tww and on

[glass mortar]

i think nobody has sole designers anymore

[proven ocean]

idk about that

[glass mortar]

all the specs getting changes we see are group efforts

the real changes anyway

[frail veldt]

tbh that would explain a lot

[glass mortar]

like dk/hunter/shaman shit

[frail veldt]

cuz the changes to outlaw lately seem like they come from someone whos never played the spec

[vivid vessel]

also every good changes we got were feedback we gave that was ignored for legit 3 tiers

remember bte reseting on stealth ?

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/bill-nye-computer-crying-sad-reading-comments-gif-4895428

realz reading chat rn

[royal ermine]

unironically I would assume that the new dh spec had a lot to do with that considering he was also doing dh

[buoyant cosmos]

it's crazy that a dev this big can do that but it would make sense

[vapid sundial]

I mean

the reality is

we are unpopular

why would they put a lot of time into our spec

when near no one plays it

[glass mortar]

they did in df

[frail veldt]

integrity

idk

[glass mortar]

we were also unpopular then

[vapid sundial]

i dont think they put that much effort

[proven ocean]

mage gets reworks every tier

xdd

[vapid sundial]

compared to waht they did for shaman

[proven ocean]

x

[late swallow]

integrity LMAO

[proven ocean]

dd

[buoyant cosmos]

Is that just a self fulfilling thing?

[proven ocean]

oh shit

[royal ermine]

[glass mortar]

wdym we had pretty major changes in s1 of df and s3

[proven ocean]

so he has nothing to do with the new spec

[vivid vessel]

idk about a lot of time

[glass mortar]

to all 3 specs tbh

[vivid vessel]

the time spent has just been bad

[buoyant cosmos]

leave a class convoluted and meh so no one is gonna play it.

[vivid vessel]

im not asking for a lot of time

[desert tendon]

Realz

[royal ermine]

ok nvm

[vivid vessel]

but what they did with killing spree is criminal

and that wasnt a time issue

[proven ocean]

also

[frail veldt]

yeah major changes like haste tax and removing acro lol

[royal ermine]

[proven ocean]

idk why assa is giga squishy

in keys

[fluid iron]

all we can do is speculate since they sure as hell wont tell us

[proven ocean]

its cringe as fuck

[vivid vessel]

that was just a incompetence issue

[vapid sundial]

didnt they just need to make it flurry

[cedar kernel]

i might need a buff

[vapid sundial]

and target main target

xd

[proven ocean]

assa being the squishiest spec in raid too

like

[vivid vessel]

it flurries already '

its just rng targetting

[glass mortar]

both of those were in tww tho

[vivid vessel]

and everything else

[glass mortar]

[proven ocean]

pressing feint on assa perma is giga cringe u lose a shit ton of dps

[vapid sundial]

ye i said that as well

[proven ocean]

and u can never parse if u play like a real human

without being a raider asshole who never presses defensives

[desert tendon]

Uninstall wow. Play silksong now gamers

[proven ocean]

absolutely cringe

[desert tendon]

[proven ocean]

ngl

[frail veldt]

oh my b I read tww

[proven ocean]

rogue is easily like

[frail veldt]

yeah in DF S3 all 3 rogue specs got a pretty sizeable rework

[proven ocean]

one of the squishiest classes

out of all content

in pve

legit crazy

[cinder relic]

Uh

[proven ocean]

except outlaw

that is

[daring oxide]

I'm pretty sure the whole class/spec design stuff probably changed

[frail veldt]

umm

[indigo token]

erm

[proven ocean]

even max said it

so

[glass mortar]

hmm

[vivid vessel]

in raid rogue has been kinda squishy this tier

[daring oxide]

if you watch Jade Martin's interview, seems like a significant team effort

[proven ocean]

i wont listen to arguments

[fluid iron]

tbh i feel like, rogue is either extremely unkillable to mechanics or you just get you ass clapped

[vivid vessel]

ye

like on salamander and demensuis

i just get slapped around perma

[proven ocean]

half the wow content is assclapping rn

like

u just get fucked

[vivid vessel]

i think thats mostly cause we have 0 self sustain

[fluid iron]

large AoE hits = we cant die
dots = im crying for help

[proven ocean]

in the ass

u have nothing to do

for 'em

[frail veldt]

yeah dots completely wreck us

[proven ocean]

ye but thats just bad feint design

[frail veldt]

or even worse

[proven ocean]

it costs a shit ton of dps

[frail veldt]

BLEEDS

[proven ocean]

and its only aoe

its cringe af

[frail veldt]

bleeds are rogues worst enemy

[proven ocean]

idk why feinting that much makes u do 0 dps

[vivid vessel]

like

[vapid sundial]

Feint costing energy is criminal

[proven ocean]

like

u legit cannot parse

[vivid vessel]

on dimmy right

[proven ocean]

on assa

if u feint

and do mechanics

legit 0%

[vivid vessel]

i have to feint litteraly every single ability or I die

while other specs cant do that

[vapid sundial]

Okay real question

[vivid vessel]

so how tf do they live

cause i sure as hell aint living

[vapid sundial]

how many other specs use resources to defensive.

[cinder relic]

Ur the tankiest spec in the game on p1 dimensius tho lol

[vapid sundial]

I actually dont know

[daring oxide]

I dont think so, with elusiveness, we do well to reduce dot damage, plus vanish soothing darkness + crimson vial, we are pretty good no?

[glass mortar]

most other specs dont have defensives with such low cds

[cinder relic]

How many other specs have a 40% Dr on a 15 second cooldown

[glass mortar]

feint is taxed for being a 20s (5s for outlaw) cd

[vivid vessel]

ok but how do other specs not die

[proven ocean]

"p1 dimensius" ye and forget about everything else like fractillius bleeds overlap which fucks u in the ass

[vivid vessel]

i have to feint on cd

so how do they survvie

[proven ocean]

foreverguy defending blizzard again

[frail veldt]

compared to other specs no

[vivid vessel]

cuase they dont have feint cd

[proven ocean]

cba with that argument

[stiff vector]

fract bleeds definitely fuck you in the ass

[vivid vessel]

so im actually confused you know

[cinder relic]

Who is defending blizzard

[frail veldt]

we dont have a "big" defensive for bleeds

[copper radish]

In keys I usually have the least amount of damage taken as outlaw. Feint/evasion with elusiveness does wonders

[frail veldt]

max we can get is elusiveness + evasion for 36%

vial heals for piss

its like 20% of your max hp

or 25%

effectively nothing

[frail veldt]

for a gcd that isnt even increased by adr

[daring oxide]

eh

[proven ocean]

rogue is giga squishy overall

[daring oxide]

Crimson vial is hasted gcd

its faster than ADR gcd...

[proven ocean]

on all content except outlaw which is unplayable in most content

[daring oxide]

its like 0.4seconds gcd

[proven ocean]

and even max said it

[glass mortar]

crimson vial is a hasted gcd and is also castable during kspree so

[frail veldt]

wat

[proven ocean]

and i agree with him

[cinder relic]

Because they cycle their big defensives on only the big hits, meanwhile you can feint literally every hit dimensius does

[glass mortar]

vial is pretty free for law now

[cinder relic]

It's a tradeoff

[frail veldt]

I thought it was slow like cheap shot and kidney

[keen belfry]

didnt max say that rogue is literally their squishiest on dimenisus???

[proven ocean]

like

[glass mortar]

but for other specs i can understand

[daring oxide]

LOL U DIDNT KNOWWWWWWWW

[frail veldt]

its def not 0.4 wtf

[daring oxide]

IT IS

[stiff vector]

crimson vials 25% over 4 seconds is definitely...."something"

[frail veldt]

I press it all the time

[daring oxide]

bro

[vivid vessel]

ok but if i dont fient the small hits i die

[proven ocean]

no one cares if rogue is tanky for 1 phase in a specific fight of a raid that has 8 bosses lol

[frail veldt]

theres no world

haha

[vivid vessel]

so how do they not die

[daring oxide]

yes

it is

i promise ya

[cinder relic]

In p3 it's rougher, in p1 you are one of the tankiest

Cuz most of the damage is from the rings that you can't mitigate easily

[vivid vessel]

I wont be dying in p3

[proven ocean]

i mean

[vivid vessel]

only forevercuck dies in p3

[proven ocean]

rogue needs defensive rework

[vapid sundial]

Zac and guy boxing match
winner gets green name

[glass mortar]

damn do the rings not count as aoe for feint?

they should they are an aoe

thats cringe

[proven ocean]

like

pressing feint on assa makes me want to delete my char

[unkempt wolf]

I wanna use elusiveness but cheat death saves me sometimes

[glass mortar]

anything applied by an aoe ground effect should count as an aoe for feint 😠

[daring oxide]

cant you just use evasion elusiveness plus feint to just tank the rings

[proven ocean]

especially that assa's dps is very energy heavy

like

[daring oxide]

you'd take like zero damage

[proven ocean]

more energy = more procs = more dps

[glass mortar]

i mean sub and sin have a 2m cd on evasion

even with elusiveness

[daring oxide]

im talking about yellow class

[glass mortar]

ur still gunna feel squishy

[daring oxide]

we in yellow discord

[proven ocean]

elusiveness is crazy work ngl

[daring oxide]

i mean

outlaw hehe

[proven ocean]

its so overrated

[cinder relic]

I think feint has always been one of the coolest defensives in the game

[glass mortar]

ok but nobody is playing outlaw on mythic dimi lol

[keen belfry]

i swear non outlaw rogue is squishy

[glass mortar]

ur actually trolling ur raid group if u do that right now

[proven ocean]

used to

not in modern wow

i dont think feint is cool at all atm

[glass mortar]

we'll see if loktark is even alowed to when he gets there

[daring oxide]

you'll see after our big buffs tomorrow 🙂

[cinder relic]

I feel pretty great on dimensius

And on nexus king

[random stirrup]

are you playing elusive

[cinder relic]

Nop

Nothing in p1 works on elus anyway

[proven ocean]

feint is very niche and specific and useless most of the time

[copper radish]

You should play elusive it’s even better dmg reduction lol

[cinder relic]

I'll probs swap when we get to p3

[proven ocean]

its only useful if the fight is designed around heavy aoe dmg

[frail veldt]

@daring oxide wtf you right? Was this a recent thing or am I actually inasne

[proven ocean]

which isn't giga common

like

[cinder relic]

Feint usually works in raid idk what u mean

[glass mortar]

ok i mean thats pretty troll ross, more then half the mechanics in this game are aoes feint works on

[proven ocean]

fights always have all sorts of dmg

[cinder relic]

It's only dots that really fuck us

[glass mortar]

what on earth do u mean it isnt giga common

[daring oxide]

i told solo about it a few months ago when noone believed me

[frail veldt]

is it new though?

[daring oxide]

i think its been hasted for a while but noone presses it

[white marten]

Assa more squish than my 99 str pure in OSRS

[daring oxide]

so noone realised

[frail veldt]

cuz I swear it didnt used to be this way haha

well its not only hasted

its faster

[glass mortar]

id say just feelycraft that 75%+ of mechanics are classified as "aoes" for feint

[frail veldt]

than other gcds

[daring oxide]

i think its always been this way

well ya

[random stirrup]

idk you either take cheat and feint every mechanic and are immortal or you take elusive and become a tanky spec that doesnt have a cheat

[daring oxide]

its got no GCD cap

[frail veldt]

naaaaah def not always

[random stirrup]

assa is squishy tho

[vivid vessel]

well ye cause its hasted

[glass mortar]

someone should do a poll of all the mechanics in a tier tbh

[proven ocean]

fractillius, soul hunters, feint barely does anything

[frail veldt]

oh I thought he meant like increased by adr

WTF why is it hasted???

[vivid vessel]

no

[daring oxide]

it is

[frail veldt]

thats gotta be an accident

[daring oxide]

plus haste

nah

[vivid vessel]

what

no

[proven ocean]

besides

pressing feint

[daring oxide]

no?

[vivid vessel]

i think its a 1 s gcd

[proven ocean]

costs a shit ton of dps

[vivid vessel]

scaling with haste

[frail veldt]

how do we have one button

[proven ocean]

its cringe design

[frail veldt]

that scales with haste

why

[proven ocean]

to press feint for dps

[vivid vessel]

so it goes lower than 0.8

[proven ocean]

while all classes

[glass mortar]

mewo

[proven ocean]

have 10 defensives

[daring oxide]

ye

[proven ocean]

like mage

0 dps lost

from pressing 10 defensives

[frail veldt]

yeah but its our ONLY ability like that. Why would they do that on purpose!?!?

[glass mortar]

think about the last time blizzard designed anything with crimson vial in its name

[frail veldt]

that makes like no sense

[glass mortar]

i think they forgot this ability exists

[random stirrup]

it works on literally everything but the frailty on sh what

[glass mortar]

thats probably why

[daring oxide]

so we drink blood

[glass mortar]

it must have some nonsense gcd flag on it

[vapid sundial]

hey man enhance defensives blow

so theres atleast 1 other class u can complain abt

[cinder relic]

I swear I just play a different game than ppl

[copper radish]

Nothing blizzard does makes sense lmao

[strong halo]

what the fuck changed that netherprism is now our best trinket

[frail veldt]

it genuinely feels this way

[proven ocean]

it genuinely feels this way

[vapid sundial]

[daring oxide]

doesn't feint reduce damage of the dash?

[random stirrup]

im watching my raid combust to banishment and soaks on nexus king while im chill vibing with my perma 40-50% dr for every mechanic

[proven ocean]

ye but no one really dies to that

[cinder relic]

Yeah but that doesn't count apparently

[strong halo]

I simmed it like 20 times last week and it was bad and now this week Prism is a 0.7% upgrade

[daring oxide]

i use it incase a melee jumps on top of me

[cinder relic]

What counts is being weak to 1 bleed

[stiff glade]

Look at this fucking beauty. If only I had some leftover crests

[proven ocean]

if u die on soulhunters its usually something u cant live with feint

i mean

[random stirrup]

our spriest died to a singular claw at 80% and i tanked 2 and walked it off

[proven ocean]

i dont think ive had ppl on top of me

i usually run away

[glass mortar]

i swear almost every mechanic on soulhunters feint works on

[cinder relic]

Literally

[proven ocean]

to make space

[glass mortar]

its all aoe shit

[daring oxide]

ive lived many times due to monkey dh jumping on top of me during dash when they come in late while i survive fine

and they die

[proven ocean]

well ur outlaw too so ye

[daring oxide]

ay

[proven ocean]

dont fdorget that

imagine assa

[random stirrup]

or the p3 slam where you have actually 60% mit while these other classes are scared for their lives

idk

[proven ocean]

it might even die with feint

idk feint is just useless rn and overrated

[daring oxide]

ye but assa is ass

[proven ocean]

like

[daring oxide]

i think feint is very strong on outlaw thanks to cdr

[proven ocean]

its just 40% aoe dr and its only aoe and costs alot of dps on assa for no reason

[cinder relic]

Feint was insanely strong on dimensius and nexus king dude lol

[daring oxide]

especially with elusiveness

[proven ocean]

and it can cost dps on sub but

not much raelly usually

[daring oxide]

now if outlaw was tuned a bit better

[proven ocean]

usually 0

[glass mortar]

i mean if a mechanic is feintable and u die through feint from it every other class in the game is also dying to it or

[daring oxide]

we'd be insane on nexus and dimmy

[glass mortar]

most classes walls arent stronger then 40%

most are in fact weaker

[proven ocean]

i feel like u didnt play any other class

look at mage

[glass mortar]

i play monk, evoker, hunter

[proven ocean]

it has 10 defensives which each can live any mechanic in the game

[cinder relic]

Look at the 1 example

[proven ocean]

monk has a shit ton of defensives

[glass mortar]

look at the class with the best defensives in the video game

[proven ocean]

evoker can live anything lol

evoker is like

the tankiest spec on dimensius

if not top 3

[glass mortar]

evokers strongest DR is 30%

[proven ocean]

according to max that is

[strong halo]

So was there changes in the simming APL idk how Netherprism jumped to 1st over night

[daring oxide]

are you sure i feel like mages are floorpov

[glass mortar]

tell me how they live what u feinted with 40% dr

and u died

[keen belfry]

i mean renewing blaze is op in raid

[glass mortar]

yes it is

[keen belfry]

and its not a dr

[proven ocean]

ye but evoker lives everything

[glass mortar]

but it doesnt save u from 1 shots

[proven ocean]

legit everything

[glass mortar]

did i say evoker was squishy?

[proven ocean]

i dont know what they have

in their tooltip

[glass mortar]

i named the classes i play ross

[daring oxide]

my evoker is the admiral of the death ship

[proven ocean]

toolkit

but

[glass mortar]

[proven ocean]

they're way tankier than rogue lol

[glass mortar]

idk why u think i was saying squishy classes

[keen belfry]

im just saying using evoker not having 40% dr doesnt work in my head

[proven ocean]

who cares about 30% vs 40% u sound like weran rn

[keen belfry]

unkilable spec

[glass mortar]

???

[proven ocean]

30% and 40% is the same lol

u live everything anyway

[glass mortar]

i said if u die thru feint then who else would have lived

how is evoker living that with a 30% wall

u died thru a 40% wall

[proven ocean]

idk what ur talking about

ngl

[glass mortar]

ok

sin is the squishiest rogue what do u want me to say

always has been and probably always will be

[proven ocean]

u never do tho

if its aoe

u dont

[glass mortar]

yea thats all i said

[proven ocean]

if its anything else

u die

[glass mortar]

we agree on that

[proven ocean]

anything

and

that aoe defensive costs energy

a shit ton of dps

[glass mortar]

anything being, any ST only hit that feint doesnt work on sure

[proven ocean]

except on almost every class in the game they use defensives for 0 punishment

when their defensives

work on everything

legit everything

aoe dot dmg

all

[glass mortar]

well yea

[cinder relic]

The tradeoff is that feint has effectively 0 cooldown

[glass mortar]

ok so would u prefer if feint was a 2 charge 2 minute cd 40% wall that worked on everything

[daring oxide]

ya true

[glass mortar]

do u think it would make sin better

that would bring ur wall in line with these other peoples

[cinder relic]

So again, when you have fights like P1 dimensisus, which do an insane amount of P1 damage that you need to prog and learn how to heal properly, having a 40% dr for EVERYTHING is big

[proven ocean]

idk about 40% dr wall on everything that'll keep us squishy like shaman in some sense

2 min cd that is

maybe its fine

idk

[cinder relic]

Yes, other classes have 2-3 defensives they can cycle through the BIG HITS but when dimensius is spamming giant hits for all of P1, having a long CD on defensives does matter

[proven ocean]

but

[glass mortar]

thats what big walls are for other people

[proven ocean]

i think 1 defensive is not good enough

weran

[cinder relic]

Same goes for Nexus king and his combo

[proven ocean]

we need like

[glass mortar]

sure

[proven ocean]

if we had x2 wall 40%

[glass mortar]

crimson vial needs a glowup

[proven ocean]

we need 1-2 more defensive cds

2 more

actually

[glass mortar]

its like our second "defensive"

[proven ocean]

not 1

then we're fine

[glass mortar]

but its kinda abandoned

its just shit

[proven ocean]

my point rly isn't about last 2 bosses guy

[copper radish]

What other class can pop 3 defensives in one global? I have evasion, feint, and vial all macro’d together lol

[proven ocean]

its a general statement

on sin

like i understand rogue can be good there last 2

but sub is also giga tanky

[cinder relic]

I can point to many hard encounters where feint hard carries you

[proven ocean]

so u wont know that unless u played sin

sub has way higher DR than assa

sub is practically one of the tankiest specs in wow

but

[cinder relic]

I'm also aware that it costs sin more than sub or outlaw to press feint

[proven ocean]

it can die if u have nothing up insta

[strong halo]

DID NETHERPRISM GET FIXED IN APL? HOW IS IT TOP OUTLAW TRINKET NOW?

WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN

[glass mortar]

i think ross complaint is more reasonable if u look at it from the viewpoint of all rogue defensives have niches they r op in and situations they are useless in (without elusiveness) while most classes kits have defensives that just work vs all damage

[proven ocean]

it got dmg buffed like start of this season no?

[cinder relic]

I'm aware what his point is

[glass mortar]

i think evasion could have a baseline dr now and it wouldnt overload our kit anyway

but we really dont need much

[strong halo]

i swear to god like 4 days ago it wasnt top of bloodmallet, and now it sims 1% upgrade for me

[gaunt phoenix]

No caps

[cinder relic]

My point is that, this is a niche, and this is the cost of having the single strongest defensive in the game, when it actually works

[glass mortar]

and the problem with buffing our baseline defensives is

[gaunt phoenix]

Link something so i can see what you see

[glass mortar]

outlaw op (unironically)

[gaunt phoenix]

and stop panicking

[proven ocean]

btw if they make x2 feint all dmg not just aoe and its a 1-2 min cd and add 1 more defensive only and make cheat death baseline it'll be very very good

and rogue wont just die to stupid shit

all the time

[cinder relic]

that sounds horrible what

[proven ocean]

sounds good to me

[cinder relic]

Listening to Hunters and Shamans, chain die to conquers on nexus king for 40 pulls because they dont have a consistent DR they can send on every conquer

[strong halo]

like im not crazy im pretty sure this changed this week

[proven ocean]

thats literally 1 mechanic

and it happen to be aoe

imagine if he added a nasty dot

what would ur argument be?

[glass mortar]

ud still be the most effective DR on ur team given how often those go out and u being able to spec elusiveness

[cinder relic]

My argument would be "wow this is a hard mechanic for rogue to deal with, but I'm willing to put up with it because the tradeoffs are very good in my favour"

[glass mortar]

i mean that mechanic happens too often for most specs to be able to DR each one

mages should be able to tho

the rest

[proven ocean]

very good in ur favour

interesting

[cinder relic]

I can point to 10 hard encounters where feint makes you thanos

[proven ocean]

ye its niche we all know feint is op where it has its own uses

[cinder relic]

While a majority of classes struggle to live on it because their defensives are long CD

[random stirrup]

hmmm should i use my 50% dr or should i cloak the debuff off

[proven ocean]

let me give u 1 example btw

where feint is dogshit

[glass mortar]

i mean i am 100% on guys side here i think probably 90%+ of mechanic they make on raid fights are aoes feint works on and we just dont notice cause the only ones u ever die to are the ones feint doesnt work on

[proven ocean]

when the dmg is aoe

like big momma

assa is the squishiest spec on that fight

[cinder relic]

So once again, I'm aware feint sometimes sucks

Feint is also sometimes the most broken ability in the game

[proven ocean]

even tho feint is 0 dps loss on that fight

i wonder why its not op?

[cinder relic]

I'm willing to live with this tradeoff

[proven ocean]

the fight is aoe?

wait i have a better one

swampface

wave aoe hit

it opens up a new asshole to all the assa rogues in the game

[gaunt phoenix]

it's bloodmallet using an old build of simc. Netherprism was bugged for like 4 days where the damage was not splitting, it was doing full damage to all targets. this was fixed like yesterday

[proven ocean]

the aoe dmg is way too big

[frail veldt]

so would that mean that the other specs have better than a 40% flat dr with a 20 second cd?

[proven ocean]

we have no reliable selfhealing

at all

[copper radish]

Outlaw has something that works 🔥 I love pressing feint in keys tbh. Always have the least amount of damage taken. Elusiveness 🔥 too

[proven ocean]

no good dr

[frail veldt]

what specs are you playing with that have a better dr than feint for aoe

[proven ocean]

wemo

did u push

and tried few floodgates

?

you'll notice assa dies the most

[frail veldt]

no ive only done a 15

[proven ocean]

on big momma

[glass mortar]

can u answer his question tho

[proven ocean]

and swampface

[glass mortar]

how are other specs living if assass dies

[proven ocean]

legit every class lives those 2

lol

[frail veldt]

but what specs are living better than assa

[glass mortar]

when they only have lower DRs then sin

[proven ocean]

like

[frail veldt]

im confused

[glass mortar]

on that fight

[strong halo]

I simmed like 2 days ago and now its a 1% full upgrade in D slide

[frail veldt]

idgi

[glass mortar]

we are asking for the explanation

[proven ocean]

u would have me list everything

in the game

[glass mortar]

ur the one doing the keys

[proven ocean]

because they live those 2 bosses

and i dont

[cinder relic]

Are you going to ignore all the times where feint is the best defensive in the game?

[copper radish]

Sin might be the squishiest of all time

[glass mortar]

i mean other class specs

[frail veldt]

maybe your healer isnt healing you

[proven ocean]

tomb of sargeras ages are gone dude

[glass mortar]

like if sin is dying on this fight where every mechanic is aoe how is evoker living

[proven ocean]

i dont think rogue deserves to be praised like that

[glass mortar]

their DR is only weaker then feint

[strong halo]

so the simming of the trinket was bugged?

[glass mortar]

how is shaman or druid living

[proven ocean]

not anymore atleast

[cinder relic]

tomb wans't feint it was cloak

[proven ocean]

my shaman never died once

[gaunt phoenix]

No-- the trinket WAS bugged and this bug was added to simc

[proven ocean]

on big momma and swampface

not once

legit 0

[gaunt phoenix]

But now it's fixed

[strong halo]

ohhhhhh ty for clarification

[proven ocean]

it literally was feint LOL

[copper radish]

Wasn’t cloak on CDR at one point? Who do we gotta pay for that to be back

[proven ocean]

avatar of sargeras

and kiljaeden soaks

what

[cinder relic]

It was cloak...

[proven ocean]

?

[frail veldt]

not since I played which was SL

[cinder relic]

That raid was defined by immunities

Not by feint

[proven ocean]

brother

[frail veldt]

so its been a while

[frail veldt]

yeah but hojw

they literally have less dr than you

on a longer cd

lol

[proven ocean]

feint was so broken in that raid to the level where they finally added a cd on it because of how broken rfeint was in that raid

[frail veldt]

I think your healer isnt healing you I swear

[proven ocean]

i literally remember the devs

[cinder relic]

Uh, no

[proven ocean]

talking about it

and rwf players

sco post kj kill

talking about having a shit ton of rogues because of feint on beam soaks

xd

and

last phase kj aoe hit

on orb

feint

soaks on kj

feint

beams on avatar

feint

[cinder relic]

Ok ur right feint sucks, just give rogue a 2 minute CD wall

[glass mortar]

[proven ocean]

this guy

[frail veldt]

then he would live

[proven ocean]

[frail veldt]

on bigmomma

like his shaman

[royal ermine]

what if we just made the evasion part of elusiveness baseline and replace that part of elusiveness with float like a butterfly

[proven ocean]

im pretty sure u have no idea how shaman works

[random stirrup]

oppressive shamans just living everything

[proven ocean]

at all

[glass mortar]

i mean i think evasion is so niche in its use case in real pve content it would be fair to give it a baseline DR

all the problems with buffing these abilities is outlaw abuses the hell out of them tho

evasion is like a 20s cd for law

[frail veldt]

doesnt deathstalker get this

[proven ocean]

everytime i have a conversation with you mewo you keep on typing the opposite thing

[frail veldt]

for magical damage

[glass mortar]

yea

[cinder relic]

Evasion could have a baseline DR, sure why not but yeah idk

[copper radish]

Pls no rogue defensive changes for pve cause ima get fked in pvp 😂

[strong halo]

How do we send prism as outlaw? every pull? on cd?

[frail veldt]

I only do that when I think youre wrong

[cinder relic]

Feint is a defensive that sometimes is the best, and sometimes is the worst, I've always been fine with this tradeoff, because usually on most hard encounters, it means that you are extremely tanky. Specific mechanics hurt

Conq on Nexus king feels like nothing on my rogue, meanwhile banishments hurt a lot, but again, this is just a tradeoff that exists

[proven ocean]

feint

[glass mortar]

mewo i have a bone to pick with you, often you agree with me but then also often you say the opposite of what im saying

[gaunt phoenix]

prism is kinda vibe rules but you can try to send it with vanish after 4+ buffs are ticking

[glass mortar]

very suspect!

[proven ocean]

beam u see

is also feint

[glass mortar]

[proven ocean]

ur clueless on shaman toolkit, i do the highest keys and i've never seen a single shaman die on those 2 bosses when rogue dies all the time

ur just straight up trolling i cba with you

[frail veldt]

you act like im the only one saying this

[proven ocean]

and all my keys have a shaman in them

nah

i cba

dont talk about keys no offense

[frail veldt]

nah im going to

if youre dying to aoe damage as a rogue before a shaman ngl ur cooked

[glass mortar]

shamans have a 1.5m wall as strong as feint, a totem that gives them small hit shield for every hit, ghost wolf 20% dr after 5s if they camp in it, and 20% max hp on a 5m cd with earth ele

[tawny meteor]

When are you using stone idol ? Best dos increase? When pack is setup ?

[glass mortar]

im going to need an explanation for how a shaman is living aoe mechanics but u are dying

[frail veldt]

there aint no way around it

[proven ocean]

talk to ur self then

[frail veldt]

ggs

[proven ocean]

gonna just block you i cba

ur always talking like that

never a real argument

[glass mortar]

maybe they r heal surging themselves every gcd during it

[jolly geyser]

[copper radish]

Zeroes just mad cause he dies in his keys. Respec outlaw and use elusiveness and I bet you’ll be fine

[proven ocean]

its the hardest key for sin to live on

entire season

[royal ermine]

yeah I mean I think that if you moved float to elusiveness though it would fix that because if you're taking cheat in raid you wouldn't have 20s evasion, you'd still get it in keys and the other rogue specs would feel less shit

[proven ocean]

shamans have alot of things to live constant dmg

they can self heal

they can press defensives whenever it isn't enough

its very easy for most classes to live those bosses

[cinder relic]

Does self healing not cost dps?

[glass mortar]

i mean if ur shaman is spamming healing surge during this its true u cant do that

thats pretty desperation mode for a mechanic tho

[copper radish]

I think the shaman is a free cast heal that can proc right

[glass mortar]

thats zero dps for a decent period

[cinder relic]

Costs a global

[proven ocean]

global

xd

[copper radish]

🪦

[proven ocean]

💀

[frail veldt]

you cant spam that though

[royal ermine]

losing maelstrom to heal is cursed

[frail veldt]

doesnt enhance oom after like 5 healing surges?

or did they fix that

[proven ocean]

he's resto so

it doesn't matter

[frail veldt]

OH ITS YOUR HEALER

[cinder relic]

Most classes have defensives that work on literally everything on a longer cd, while rogue has a defensive that has effectively no cd but works on most* things. We also have cloak as a backup.

[glass mortar]

...

[frail veldt]

LOLOLOL

BRO

[glass mortar]

bruh

BRUH

[frail veldt]

alright

im fucking done

[copper radish]

Sounds like zeros shaman doing that to live. And then he lives and gets to do more DPS 😂

[frail veldt]

"MY HEALER IS LIVING THE MECHANIC SHAMAN IS OP"

I cant even fucking believe

we thought this was a real argument

[glass mortar]

aintnoway u been arguing this entire time that ur healer must have an amazing defensive toolkit because they are living aoes u cant

[proven ocean]

ele is the same what are u guys smoking

[glass mortar]

and they are legit mashing emergency ST heals into themselves

[proven ocean]

i play with ele too

[glass mortar]

its not at all but ok

[proven ocean]

[frail veldt]

zeross bro

[proven ocean]

ele legit never dies on this dungeon

[frail veldt]

why you doin me like this

ill go back to what I said initially which is that it sounds like your healer isnt healing you hahaha

[random stirrup]

suspiciously low amount of mitigation for a 40% feint ability

[proven ocean]

it is

ele never dies

[frail veldt]

THE LOGS

taking more damage than the fury warrior

[sudden fulcrum]

bro got receipts

[proven ocean]

?

[cinder relic]

Gulp

[frail veldt]

unreal

[proven ocean]

assa has 50% vers

u dont know how to check logs or what

outlaw*

[quaint mauve]

feint has too much energy cost, not pressing

[frail veldt]

I didnt know assa has less dr than fury

[proven ocean]

and fury selfheals everything

[frail veldt]

to aoe

thast wild

[proven ocean]

and has alot of defensives

[frail veldt]

this is damage taken

[copper radish]

How the fk is he taking the most damage with feint, evasion, and cloak all in the tool kit 🤦‍♂️

[cinder relic]

Buff rogue defensives

[frail veldt]

maybe you moved your feint bind

and forgot

[proven ocean]

u know that this boss has drones attacking too

2 of them 1 shot you

in high keys

which cast 24/7

u have to feint those

[copper radish]

Then why is outlaw 2nd lowest on dmg taken

[proven ocean]

u guys are all clueless its crazy

[late swallow]

ryldd literally has all the paperwork

[ripe ibex]

okay do you guys not do keys or

taking damage

is not bad

[frail veldt]

ryldd came in fucking GUNS OUT

[ripe ibex]

wtf are guys talking about

[frail veldt]

unreal

[glass mortar]

so u need to DR every single cast from those adds

[sudden fulcrum]

i do not take damage

i'm good at the game

[proven ocean]

u guys legit have no idea what goes on in high keys

[glass mortar]

please tell me how ele does that

just perma camping in ghost wolf ig

[ripe ibex]

no actually

[late swallow]

ryldd got his shit notarized

[proven ocean]

drones is what kills you the most and the phase before the amp

in big momma

but ur all doing +10 keys so u will never know that

[frail veldt]

ah now its the drones not the aoe

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/moving-goalposts-goalposts-changing-requirements-gif-25214446

[glass mortar]

guys nobody in here can have this convo because nobody in here is a 3.5k io sin player please stop typing when zeross types

[copper radish]

Sounds like he is tanking the drones

[glass mortar]

listen and learn 📖

[frail veldt]

yeah only he knows why its more optimal to not press feint for the aoe and instead to use evasion on that and not on the shoots

https://tenor.com/view/5head-johnqt-valorant-gif-17142608097753744835

[junior coral]

Yall think there is any way outlaw gets touched during next tuning or we cooked?

[random stirrup]

im meming zeross a bit but he did feint on cd this fight

[royal ermine]

should it yes will it no

[random stirrup]

so he does have an argument

[cinder relic]

Maybe? But probably not

[proven ocean]

swampface btw

'

[frail veldt]

yeah swampface fucks for sure ill give you that

my assa buddy always dies there

[glass mortar]

ah yes the classic swampface mechanic, crabsplosions and jettison kelp

[hybrid crown]

Stack leech

[proven ocean]

crazy crimson vial hps

[ripe ibex]

but damage taken is not a good metric to look at to determine how tanky a spec is

[late swallow]

nerf vial?

[proven ocean]

saved me from 10m dmg over 25 sec