outlaw

[frank finch]

even if i ;ose 60 sec buff?

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[cinder haven]

I made my oppo weakaura show the broadside icon when bs i up

I like that for 1fth

[frank finch]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
(Assuming season 3 tier and Supercharger)

• Roll if you have 0 or 1 buffs.
• Roll if you have 2 buffs and Loaded Dice is active.
• Roll once asap after pressing KIR, as your buffs don't get rolled away. Use this weakaura to see when your buffs don't get rolled away (yellow border).
• After the KIR roll, continue to watch the weakaura as buffs tick down. As your buffs expire you may hit a point where your remaining buffs are yellow and you can roll again.

[frank finch]

might have to finally give in to zacs rtb wa

[gaunt phoenix]

ya you need it

or you will miss rolls

so many times you catch yourself with an assortment of yellow buffs

and you get to roll

[frank finch]

if yellow press rtb

right?

[gaunt phoenix]

if most buffs are yellow

if you have 5 yellow 1 red then you can roll

but if the red is broadside idk i keep it sometimes

[granite merlin]

Omg fatebound sims like 1 million lower

In m+

[vivid vessel]

nah but

the world boss

can just reset

xddd

[gaunt phoenix]

ye he flies off

[vivid vessel]

it already takes 10 fuicking min to kill

and then he just reset

[gaunt phoenix]

he's smart

[vivid vessel]

this is litteraly tyhe worse gaming experience

ever

shit so trash

i hate it

i just need renown

give me my renown

i dont want to kill this guy every week

[bronze robin]

Wait is the blade flurry hitting dead things back

I swear I keep randomly seein numbers in the corner of my screen from dead stuff

[gaunt phoenix]

thats from bte

[mighty pivot]

you never had numbers from dead stuff

[gaunt phoenix]

there is a very ancient bug

with BtE damage numbers

showing up on dead monsters

[late swallow]

!fuckbugs

[ornate heath]

• Breaking Vanish with a trinket will not grant Subterfuge.
• Recasting Stealth while Subterfuge is already active will not grant you UHUH or Crackshot bonuses until Subterfuge expires. (fixed as of 11.1)
• Casting Vanish at the same frame that a previous Subterfuge ends will cause Crackshot to not activate.
• After breaking Stealth, there is about a 100ms delay before the effects of Subterfuge happen. You will thus lose about 100ms of adr

[gaunt phoenix]

it doesnt affect dps, it's a display issue

but a random number in the corner of your screen is from an old BtE

100%

[bronze robin]

thanks you da best as usual

[chilly dagger]

I was watching nessa run with 2 points in fth last night. Im guessing just cause it feels better. Not at home to sim so idk how much of a loss it might be.

[mighty pivot]

doesn't nessa run HO?

[bronze robin]

Pretty sure, yeah they do

[chilly dagger]

O.

I tried ho the other day. My fingers went numb

[gaunt phoenix]

ya they play HO cause they prefer it

they know it's "worse"

very based

[cinder haven]

The trinket bug is extra cringe for FB now

[bronze robin]

Honestly if I played using only keyboard I'd only play HO too

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm

[acoustic hedge]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB TWICE some time before entering dungeon to get 4 Supercharger stacks. These stacks don't have a duration.
• Just before key placement use AR into KS to get Loaded Dice and 2 free Unseen Blade procs.
• KS will consume one stack of Supercharger but the 3rd+4th stack are removed when the key starts anyway.
• During the bubble, DO NOT RTB or recast AR as you will lose the CPs and Supercharger stacks when the bubble ends.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now back at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open onto the pack with AR into BtE.

[granite merlin]

Does outlaw even need to use an on use trinket or are two passive trinkets fine

[stark viper]

need is a strong word

[chilly dagger]

I like fatebound in keys cause i can keep my AR around 92%. If my tank ever sits on 1 mob or bosses like swampface with no cleave trickster feels miserable to me. Skill issue too

[onyx crane]

ive read the pinned stuff, so are the macros mandatory or can i just normally cast GS out of stealth?

[gaunt phoenix]

you need to macro AR GS

they need to go off at the very same moment

[bronze robin]

Macros make coins go brrrrrrr

[stark viper]

is there a specific reason or just optimization?

[cinder haven]

The specific reason is more damage

[gaunt phoenix]

its bug abuse

[bronze robin]

it says in the pin lol. It's to get more coins to do more dam

[gaunt phoenix]

AR GS at the same time from stealth gives you 6 of both coins

[cinder haven]

Bug utilization

[stark viper]

oh lol i havent seen that bug note yet

[cinder haven]

[stark viper]

good ole outlaw

[old gull]

Buglaw

[gaunt phoenix]

so you open with AR GS from stealth

the first vanish is with GS

[old gull]

I forget to vanish before gs like 90% of the time

[gaunt phoenix]

then with some luck every other vanish is with AR GS

[waxen scarab]

!log

[gaunt phoenix]

but as the boss timer goes on AR can desync

which is expected

[stark viper]

ye i usually have AR on its own button because of desync anyway but i guess I'll put AR in my GS macro

[old gull]

How far exactly is ho behind in st? 10%

[gaunt phoenix]

10% in a big pull

overall maybe 5%

[stark viper]

any trickster bug abuse hanging around?

[cinder haven]

I don't think there's any time you want to send adr but hold gs as fb so you only need the one bind

[gaunt phoenix]

not really

[stark viper]

yeah prob not i havent played FB that much

sub in raid mostly

[frail veldt]

smart

[cinder haven]

Understandable

[stark viper]

outlaw is just my secret love

whole rotation is a big if statement ❤️

[frail veldt]

yeee

priority system vs rotation system

[stark viper]

actually saw something where people were saying they just send finishers at full combo points even if KS isnt done channeling as trickster, but isnt that stupid?

[inland acorn]

More like

7 if statements in one

[inland acorn]

it's kinda neutral, mostly feels better to cancel KS

Though i think it's been find out that, you might actually preferr let it go to get energy back

[frail veldt]

I think for some builds its a small gain

as trickster its pretty neutral, you can use KS to recup your energy p much

[stark viper]

i mean i just felt like the damage from KS is pretty good, so i let it go the full channel most of the time

[frail veldt]

but if youre max energy and cp you dont really need to keep ksing

KS damage is decent but its not that high unfortunately

have to factor the cost of doing nothing

which is what youre doing when youre in ks

you might be doing damage

[stark viper]

true

[frail veldt]

but you arent gaining more cdr

[inland acorn]

Damage on outlaw ?

[stark viper]

i wish it gave ticks of cdr every second spent channeling

or every "GCD worth of time" rather

[inland acorn]

Maybe apex talent

[stark viper]

since gcd changes

[inland acorn]

Copy of butterfly

[shell fossil]

just cause the hunter is worth 1.5 outlaws doesn't mean you're not doing nothing 🙂

[stark viper]

at least its kind of fun to play rn

doesnt feel like a pile of crap

[inland acorn]

Atrophic

[shell fossil]

[gaunt phoenix]

kir really values cooldown reduction and cto procs

at some point raw damage that doesnt proc anything can be unfavorable

its the same reason Blade rush is a dps loss even at 30 targets

[frail veldt]

its soooo much better than the old KS

despite its issues

[onyx crane]

does it need to be the exact macro or can i add stuff like potion and racial? like only things that arent affected by gcd?

[frail veldt]

I can actually play the game

[onyx crane]

sorry for pinging wrong message

[gaunt phoenix]

ya just off gcd things

[stark viper]

old KS was just a "never take it" for me

even when it was decent in raid in DF

[frail veldt]

I quit playing because of it

[stark viper]

screw that ability

[frail veldt]

it was so so so so so bad

[stark viper]

this button fits perfectly in the rotation for max damage in this moment but if i press it i will die

garbage

[fathom bramble]

Planning to play sub if they don’t change outlaw or the boss

[near rock]

type shit

[stark viper]

i dont really understand the hard cap on BF anymore. why not just a softcap like so so many other aoe abilities

or is it a softcap, but just too harsh or what

[fathom bramble]

It is still a hardcap

[stark viper]

thats dumb man

[fathom bramble]

Leaving us as the only spec in the game with no softcapped/uncapped damage

[stark viper]

surely its gonna change right

RIGHT

[quaint wharf]

Blade rush… arise

[hybrid crown]

Not true we have the nightfall cudgel 🙃

[fathom bramble]

Yeah they could partially address it by giving us good sources of aoe that aren’t bf

KS and BR being obvious choices

[gaunt phoenix]

would also make it easier to tune aoe vs st

[inland acorn]

If only

They didn't fuckup KS rework

[hybrid crown]

I'm pretty sure the nightfall cudgel is like exponential aoe too

[stark viper]

KS only hits one target at a time in packs, no?

[inland acorn]

one random target ye

[stark viper]

thats dumb too imo

[fathom bramble]

Similar to how warrior sweeping strikes is hardcapped but they have a ton of other softcapped sources

[hybrid crown]

Like if you had like 1000 targets it would start to do broken absurd amounts of dmg

[fathom bramble]

Yeah it’s technically st

But they could make it an actual aoe

[inland acorn]

The visual make it look like it's frontal aoe...

[stark viper]

they could at least make it be affected by BF

[fathom bramble]

KS like all st attacks is copied by bf

[stark viper]

well it dont damn feel like it

[inland acorn]

they should make it similiar to old KS

where if you have BF up, it's actually aoe frontal

If no BF --> ST current target

[fathom bramble]

I would definitely much prefer a 360 degree aoe

Just because we already position around bf being that

[glass timber]

damn that felt good

[hybrid crown]

Is 10 possible

[vivid vessel]

11 is

[hybrid crown]

Daamn

[vivid vessel]

10 isnt even hard

[hybrid crown]

I have a 9 on mine but I installed it recently

[vivid vessel]

i think 10 is bte > subt window > bte

if im not mistaken

that might be 9 actually idk

[keen belfry]

ive had 10

never 11

i guess i should get that ace counter

link it now

NOW

[hybrid crown]

Does it keep counting if you vanish right after a subterfuge window

[vivid vessel]

ye 1 + vanish bte + 7 inside window + 1 after

10

[vivid vessel]

its just ace resets

idc about anything else

i just count ace in a row without pressing builders

(gs is allowed)

[mighty pivot]

get it and change the text to show 13 to impress outlaw chat

[vivid vessel]

unfortunate has 11

11 you must chain stealth windows so its harder

[keen belfry]

im p sure AR is allowed too

[vivid vessel]

no its not

very much not haha

[keen belfry]

suyre man

sire

sure

i ahte when zac gaslights me

[brave lagoon]

I'd have to check mines at what number it was sitting at 9 forever but now I forgot

[vivid vessel]

i would know bro

[hybrid crown]

I have a feeling Zac made this wa

[vivid vessel]

i made it you know

[mighty pivot]

he only does it all the time

[keen belfry]

zac it says ADR not AR

so gg

checkmate

[vivid vessel]

gg

[frail veldt]

how can you tell the reset came from ace and not pressing adr right after bte?

[mighty pivot]

how do we know zac isn't using a modified WA?

[frail veldt]

is it just by amount of cps gained?

[vivid vessel]

OK

ONLY 2 LEFT

[keen belfry]

AI WA maker

[vivid vessel]

no its by cast

just dont cast a builder

between ace procs

i count ace procs

[frail veldt]

oh ace proc is a cast?

[vivid vessel]

no ace proc isnt a cast

there is an event tho

[random stirrup]

Does this mean ace window ks ace window would work

[frail veldt]

ah okay that makes it easier

[vivid vessel]

ye

[random stirrup]

Holy moly

[vivid vessel]

sub doesnt have an event for their things

[keen belfry]

zac is so lucky im not in french rn

[vivid vessel]

which is annoying

[random stirrup]

Time to skip coup

[keen belfry]

if i was in french rn

[vivid vessel]

fuck

thing is

[hybrid crown]

It times out

[vivid vessel]

i cant update the weak aura i think

if you update the weak aura it override your variables

i think

idk

[hybrid crown]

I'm pretty sure the counter icon goes away after like 2 seconds if you haven't pressed bte

[quick osprey]

so for KiR builds, do you not press ambush ever? even during stealth?

[vivid vessel]

it comes back

tho

that doesnt matter

[hybrid crown]

O

[vivid vessel]

the counter in the background is here

[inland acorn]

yes, throw ambush from your bars

[mighty pivot]

I bet if you check the WA's source code it checks for character name and adds +2 to the max count if it's any of zac's

[random stirrup]

Time to cheat the system by sending a 1cp supercharged ks to regen my cp so I can continue my ace streak

[inland acorn]

[frank finch]

iv gotten over the overflowe bag 3 times already , do u even play the game

[vivid vessel]

[mighty pivot]

zacrebleu in shambles

[vivid vessel]

wtf is paragon

you guys are massive nerds

[onyx crane]

anything specific to watch out for in trickster? like any macros or something or just fatebound stuff?

[stiff vector]

wtf paragon with karesh trust alrdy

touch grass u freak

[mighty pivot]

that's the real end game

[plush cloak]

My simc says a champion sacbrood is better than fully upgraded myth pacemaker is this true?

[mighty pivot]

if you lack haste without the sacbrood it can be

[plush cloak]

That couldve been it

im on 18% so not crazy high

[covert kestrel]

you want to get 19.2 or something so if youre just comparing the two and thats the only place you will get haste from, it will choose it

[plush cloak]

is it still worth picking it and then just priong haste from other items then?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes you should get haste elsewhere

[mighty pivot]

try using a haste fiber and sim with pacemaker and you'll see it will be much better

[ionic coral]

hey guys,
i have a question how important is it to have a dagger on offhand for the extra energy procs from "fatal flourish" because i have often energy problems with KIR fatebound build in single target
thanks in advance

[covert kestrel]

sacbrood kinda buns now

[covert kestrel]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[covert kestrel]

it is not because of the dagger with energy issues

[ionic coral]

ty.
then what is then the reason for the energy issues? or am i just bad

[gaunt phoenix]

usually a mix of rotation and rng

[mighty pivot]

sometimes you get screwed by rng even if you play it perfectly

[ionic coral]

ty for the help

[stiff vector]

the answer is always slow weapon for transmog

cant use double thunderfury with a dagger in off hand

[tawny meteor]

Is the stone idol actually worth it

I mean casting a 1s sht into a rotation is kinda meh ? 🙁 when are you using it

[gaunt phoenix]

ya it's good in keys

just after stealth is over

[covert kestrel]

after first subt window

[royal ermine]

seems better than pacemaker to me in keys anyways

[gaunt phoenix]

it's totally uncapped damage !

[royal ermine]

you proc pacemaker at the end of the pack and have to run to the next your'e already losing value on the trinket

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont remember the last agility trinket that did that

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/come-over-its-free-real-estate-commercial-gif-13719638

[royal ermine]

also that it does like 2-2.5% of my damage in a key

[trail cove]

!kir

[ornate heath]

KIR build compared to HO:

• doesn't use ambush, uses the same builder priority inside and outside of stealth
• is more cp efficient with pistol shot usage (see faq)
• has to use KIR itself as soon as you hit 4 buffs from RTB/CTO
• has an additional reroll logic after pressing KIR (see faq)
• is more punishing if you mess up builder priority at a given moment
• needs 19% haste from rating to reach 25% during adrenaline rush after alacrity
• KIR 1 FTH really likes trickster optimizations, like prioritizing SS when unseen blades are guaranteed (see faq)

[safe pasture]

all im sayin is my 43% crit ho build smacks

[frank finch]

i have unlocked skengas secrets

r1's incoming

stay tuned

[vernal pawn]

Do i prio BtE in sub window while Coup is up? Or I Coup asap?

[granite merlin]

I wish ho wasn’t such a massive loss in m+ or I would 100% play it

[safe pasture]

if you play kir awful like me its a dps increase 😛

[granite merlin]

Seeeeeeee this is my problem

I’m like 1.5 million under where I should be cause Kir is so effing jarring

Also question friends do you hold vanish for big packs or just send when it’s up to keep ad rush going

[safe pasture]

ye i just cant do it while in higher keyhs

in pugs

brain impleds

implodes

[granite merlin]

You had it right with impleds

[safe pasture]

xd

[vagrant saddle]

my favorite is when a tank stops after a pull to talk about the weather or w/e and u lose all ur rtb buffs

[glass mortar]

you dont cast coup in subterfuge

[granite merlin]

I want to love outlaw but it’s just so effing much to do at .8 gcd lol

In a 12+ lol

[glass mortar]

you vanish if you hit vanish conditions but if a packs about to die and you want to hold it for the next pack (and doing so wont force you to drop adr) you can do that

generally you want to send stuff as soon as they hit their conditions as outlaw tho

[safe pasture]

try mw 😄

[granite merlin]

My group doesn’t allow for two healers xp

[safe pasture]

ripp

mw so fun

[vernal pawn]

Gotcha!

[granite merlin]

I don’t wanna go back to sub cause I love outlaw but I am having a hard time getting better cause it just feels like I am frantically doing the wrong thing

[harsh crystal]

!loot

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406175771495759952/outlaw.webp

[keen belfry]

these swirlies follow the adds????????????????

[vivid vessel]

ye its cringe

[elder phoenix]

whats this for

[shy sandal]

should i use cudgel on soulhunters? 😄

[keen belfry]

like this add literally just came and dropped a nuke on me

i had no clue the swirlie moved xd

[lime cloak]

Hey does anyone happen to have a functioning weak aura that just shows a big glowing KIR icon when I have 4 or more buffs?

[gaunt phoenix]

Naw

Vanish doesnt reset the proc on bosses

[glass timber]

WA that shows BtE procs

[strong halo]

Sold heroic antenna for 350k

Worthhhh

Rolled a 100 for it

[glass mortar]

were u planning on using it?

[strong halo]

Yeah on other specs

[glass mortar]

ah

[strong halo]

Prbly wouldn’t have sold it if I didn’t get spammed by 10 people

[safe pasture]

im p sure you coulda got like 800k at least for it ngl

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble here to say fatebound pc on araz is also bad

tested for you

it let you be last boss dps + last overall dps

[fathom bramble]

araz just feels so bad

[vivid vessel]

haha ye

[fathom bramble]

like the only thing you can do is pad

[vivid vessel]

im not enjoying reclears as outlaw im ngl

idk what build to play

on bosses

its all terrible

a guy playing m+ build

did more boss damage than me

[safe pasture]

go HO 😄

why does my sim like running sigil + warpclaw so damn much i just wana run seaforium

[desert tendon]

Zac if you dont like playing

dont play

[covert kestrel]

chase your real dreams of being the #1 french taco reviewer in france

[desert tendon]

he would have a lot of competition already

[tender wedge]

Soulbinder has felt ok but everything else does feel kinda meh. Soulhunters of course but that was always OL angle

[dawn talon]

how do you have stupid shit happen to you at least once a month HAHAHAH

[split ingot]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[daring oxide]

its fucking painful

you literally need giga good luck

with rtb etc

to feel good

otherwise feels dog

ST is dog

only feels good when u high roll

which never happens for some reason

[civic zephyr]

close the discord

[daring oxide]

yup

[slate forge]

yes

[daring oxide]

time to force buffs

[civic zephyr]

trust me id main outlaw in pvp in a heartbeat if it didnt feel so bad

[copper radish]

Time for a rogue with warglaives

[civic zephyr]

guess your first ranged spec will be dh now xD

[daring oxide]

blizzard wake the fuck uppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!

[bright crane]

Are hunters good this season?

Trying to figure out what to use my lvl 80 boost on

[drowsy ridge]

MM is strong

[covert kestrel]

Another rogue

[pastel sierra]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[vivid vessel]

[fathom stone]

I see people still using the nightfall cudgel but I have a crafted OH, will Sims show the value of stealth resets on the weapon?

[glass mortar]

not patchwerk sims

dslice does and droute iirc

[west ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-walter-hank-walter-screaming-walter-yelling-gif-26473309

[vivid vessel]

its slowly coming

we are scaling up

[frank finch]

why do u have a crafted neck

[vivid vessel]

why not

its sub

[frank finch]

fair enough

[glass mortar]

how long till sub in keys

[vivid vessel]

never lol

[frank finch]

how long till fb in keys

[glass mortar]

why even bother

u dont even do more prio damage in aoe u just do less damage

u gain like 10% boss dps i guess

[frank finch]

to feel something

with new fb tech

[glass mortar]

assuming the boss never has any adds and ud ont tdrag trash onto it

[lime lake]

doing less damage for free is based

[frank finch]

coins

[glass mortar]

if u do either of those things then u do the same boss damage as trickster anyway

its funny

[prisma vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-traitor-enemy-back-stabber-michael-scott-dunder-mifflin-gif-15666747

nah j/k

we all get bored.

[vivid vessel]

its raid

i dont consider myself a traitor for raiding as sub

impossible to play outlaw

[glass mortar]

frfr

i did not have fun killing first 3 mythic last night

[vivid vessel]

first 3 are fine

[glass mortar]

especially after my raid leader banned me from cloaking to cheese the run out on moth

[vivid vessel]

wait till dementius

[vivid vessel]

why

[glass mortar]

because i died on my first pull of the boss ever to having my soak on opposite side of wall and snap and bleeding out trying to break my snap

mostly my fault i didnt know feint worked on the snap

[fast bloom]

Pirate not super fun on soul hunters mythical, guild makes us wait in Africa on 3rd intermission.
Other bosses didn't feel too bad outside of getting assigned a far fractillus wall break.

[zenith egret]

Wait

Can someone explain

Where coin ?

While it appear in aura tab

[drowsy ridge]

Your coins bounced off of them?

[zenith egret]

Fractilius Myth fight

[vivid vessel]

are thyeu in logs

[zenith egret]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/acmYRyKh6FnMG4Cv?fight=26&type=damage-done&source=7

Seems to be this one

0,72%

[lime lake]

well yeah coins wouldnt do anything to a giant voidglass elemental

[glass mortar]

wait

i almost got baited to say "well it looks like the events is picking up coins normally"

because ur coins procced in the opener

but then never again

[lime lake]

[glass mortar]

ur dps seems to matchup with coins not spawning as well

was ur details dps matching?

[keen belfry]

grapple is actually

peak

[glass mortar]

look at that 2 whole gcds of downtime

coulda cloaked that

[keen belfry]

cloaked the first one

[reef forge]

is there a way to sim boes?

[lime lake]

raid droptimizer sims boes

[zenith egret]

I've linked the details windows just before thhe logs link

[lime lake]

you have to set what stats they drop with though

or just add them manually to top gear

[glass mortar]

thats very monkaS

[zenith egret]

I'm very much confused

[lime lake]

just another classic rogue bug

[reef forge]

im searching for them but they aren't appearing

[lime lake]

coins just decide not to work

[glass mortar]

ur fate was unbound that pull idk

good documentation we'll see if anyone else has this happen

if it has to me i havent noticed yet

[lime lake]

just quick check and ring showed up for me

[reef forge]

is that this?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/245691637806792708/1412895605608677406/image.png?ex=68b9f512&is=68b8a392&hm=60748d4d450eefb99d5d8d0dfec7e8a6017ae45f7153d23c3ea852d09843fab5&

[lime lake]

thats one variation of it yes

the suffix changes based on the stats

the item is just called entropy

[reef forge]

oh okay

[vivid vessel]

[near rock]

how is that possible

[worldly shale]

Is there a reason why there isnt worldsoul weekly, every week?

[glass mortar]

all the coins were falling into da hole

it is a big hole

u gotta make sure to throw them real hard to hit him

[vivid vessel]

weran

i did 0 damage tonight

on fracticock

[south scaffold]

Guys, what would you take?

[vivid vessel]

im so confused

the rng wasnt insane but

i swear im not that bad bro

[glass mortar]

u ever just

have a pull that feels fine

decent buff uptime

dont run out of adr

then after u look and ur damage is dumps

and u check and

17% ace procrate

me when i cast like 15% less bte then average because of rng

[vivid vessel]

me vs r1

and im doing the fb shit

[glass mortar]

i also got to have fun with one of the 3 pulls it took us to kill moth not being able to kir until 1:15s

always a banger

[vivid vessel]

thats just rng or what

[glass mortar]

when u sit on 2 buffs for the entire first adr

[limpid vortex]

Why tf do we have to cast three times a second to get top parses on outlaw. This is worse than fury.

[glass mortar]

lmao thats not ur real apm

[lime lake]

cpm=/=apm

[glass mortar]

ur not entirely wrong tho

[limpid vortex]

Not mine, but it is the top outlaw parse

[glass mortar]

we r the second fastest dps in the game

the warcraft log CPM is fake

every PS is 3 casts (fth)

every bte is 2 casts during crackshot

etc etc

[vivid vessel]

@glass mortar

he got 500k more dps with his coin

and he just procced more coins

[glass mortar]

i mean zac what do u want me to say

[vivid vessel]

is that normal?

[glass mortar]

our damage has a ton of variance

[vivid vessel]

arent coins proc

like

[glass mortar]

moreso then usual even

[vernal fjord]

just checked and your coin dmg and flips on your recent pull seems oddly low compared to previous kills

[glass mortar]

i care more about the gameplay

[zinc briar]

lets go 4.3M 1st boss, 99perf, 10 dps of the guild

[vernal fjord]

i know theres rng but when i play with these new rules my coin dmg is always higher even with bad rng

[vivid vessel]

no but

[glass mortar]

i mean hes probably just swapping back and forth between coins more often

[zinc briar]

they dont even have 95

[vivid vessel]

coins are the same proc ?

for everyone ?

no ?

[glass mortar]

not if u alternate

[vivid vessel]

its just one coin per finisher

[glass mortar]

because the more coins u stack up

the more they do

[vivid vessel]

but the total both added

[glass mortar]

so if u get bad rng

and just slip flop back and forth

sure

[vivid vessel]

like this is count

[glass mortar]

buit the order matters

not the total amount

if ur coins alternated every single finisher whole fight

[vivid vessel]

but thats total amount

[glass mortar]

can u check average stack count

u can check that in sims

not sure u can easily in logs

[vivid vessel]

but why does that matter

im talking about

[vernal fjord]

i was also trying to align bte + gs and slightly delaying after vanish

[vivid vessel]

coin count

[glass mortar]

wdym

why wouldnt it matter

[vivid vessel]

number of coin proc

not damage

just number of coins

[lime lake]

he might just have a better chair than you

[vivid vessel]

ye i do it aswell, idk if i hit the actual gs bte much tho

they are macroed but

i think i always have a small delay

[glass mortar]

idk i dont have enough info send me the link

[vivid vessel]

i dont think the diff should be that big tho

bro

weran

[glass mortar]

u counted ur finishers and u had similar amount?

[vivid vessel]

look at the numbers

ye sure i guess i have to count finisher aswell

[vernal fjord]

its odd how less coins there were, and then seeing that log that other guy just posted with the coins fucked

[modest tiger]

!stats

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[vernal fjord]

makes me wonder

[vivid vessel]

we have the same amount of finisher

he ahs 119 + 61, and i have 106 + 41

nvm

well

ok but

[fallow python]

anyone able to review a heroic boss log for me?

[random stirrup]

You stole all his coins don’t lie

[vernal fjord]

i did also have god rng on that pull though and pretty sure i managed to align every possible gs + ar

[glass mortar]

he has longer coin streaks then u as well

is it possible logs pick up streaks weird

[vivid vessel]

bro that doesnt matter

[glass mortar]

like 5 stack of heads is 5 heads

[vivid vessel]

im talking about coin count

[glass mortar]

well it would

if it counted like this

[vivid vessel]

not damage

[glass mortar]

yes

i didnt say damage

[vivid vessel]

it count everytime there is a refresh of coin

everytime it does + 1

[glass mortar]

just that ok

[vernal fjord]

yes but if you align them you flip more coins does it not

[vivid vessel]

ye

but i align similarly

• i dont think the diff would be that insane

[pliant wave]

@vivid vessel is it a bug that Lucky Coin doesn’t proc even when the coin stacks are 8 or higher? Do you know how to work around this bug?

[vivid vessel]

even if i wasnt doing anything

[glass mortar]

if u go straight from 6 to 8 u dont get lucky coin

[vivid vessel]

ye thats when you are at 7 and go to 9 with adr

[glass mortar]

u didnt get lucky bozo

[vivid vessel]

or ye

that

[glass mortar]

gotta hit lucky number 7!!!!!!

[vivid vessel]

like you cant skip the 7

[glass mortar]

yes this bug has been around since day 1

also the lucky coin is a projectile that hits u from the target

and if u LoS it while its midair

u dont get it

that ones not really relevant

funny tho

[mighty pivot]

imagine if evasion dodged it

[vernal fjord]

idk then man its odd

[mighty pivot]

i mean bugs like this show how much attention was given to the hero trees for rogues

[vivid vessel]

ah

no

i guess

you have perma uptime on tb

so more gs and adr

its not just finisher amount i guess

[vernal fjord]

yeah im pretty sure i aligned every one

[glass mortar]

he had 19% more finishers then u and 25% more coins

idk how directly those things relate tho

i just did some quick math

and i dont have the logs so

gl hunting

[willow portal]

if i get pushed back on fract and grapple before hitting a wall to break, will that wall still break?

[vivid vessel]

ye

hm

idk

just rng i guess

[copper radish]

Why does outlaw always have so many gd bugs

[vivid vessel]

i mean i got bad rolls, dropped adr twice

was weird

but still idk

[glass mortar]

u r right tb uptime will directly inflate coin

[willow portal]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/b4LKR6twxP8yAgWf?fight=last&type=damage-done
also wtf how did i get a 0

[vivid vessel]

600k diff in coin

[copper radish]

I feel like if outlaw had 0 bugs we would be S tier

[vivid vessel]

and idk i felt like

[glass mortar]

could be worse, apparently u could have ur coins stop proccing at all

[vivid vessel]

i got bad rng

but not that bad

like i did less damage

[glass mortar]

zac im too tired and old to do this

im preparing to nuke my wow

[vivid vessel]

than on my first kill

[glass mortar]

start from scratch again

[copper radish]

Outlaws just bad rn. Feels bad man

[vivid vessel]

when i had 5 less ilvl

[glass mortar]

to try to fix the gcd bugs

[vivid vessel]

and not 3% dps boost

there is no way its not even possible

no

[copper radish]

Just reroll DH and your world opens up

[glass mortar]

could be we dont hyperscale with ilvl or anything and our max dps range is outside 8% ish anyway

[vivid vessel]

idk i dont get it

im ngl

[glass mortar]

yea i feel u

[vivid vessel]

like how do i do less damage than 3 weeks ago

with 5 more ilvl

doing all the new minmaxes

that are like another 3%

[glass mortar]

highrolled 3 weeks ago lowrolled today idk

[vivid vessel]

no

i low rolled

3 weeks ago

i actually did a pull 3 weeks ago when i high rolled

and i was at 5.5

on our 2% wipe

and you are telling me

im getting gapped by past me

with more gear

[frank finch]

[vivid vessel]

3% raid buff

and like 3/4% new rules

and abuses

im abusing

big abuser

r1 abuser right here

ok idk

i had 0 fps tonight

mauybe its just that

outlaw with low fps feels like big cock

[proper veldt]

my fps been terrible too idk

[hybrid crown]

I swear I do worse if my graphics are anything above 1

I close wcl, web browsers everything

Set graphics to 1

[fallow python]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kd43CLHZw9RGTMgh?fight=last anyone able to help me figure out why my hand of fate is so low?

[vivid vessel]

[fallow python]

WHAT YOU DO

[vivid vessel]

@glass mortar

xd?

[glass mortar]

HMMMM

[gaunt phoenix]

er, bugged tails?

[glass mortar]

all coins it might be

actually

is it just tails damage

im trying to read thru these logs more

[gaunt phoenix]

er, I just got here?

did they break tails for everyone?

[glass mortar]

yea like

u have tails stacks

and its stacking

its just not doing damage

[fallow python]

but no damage

[glass mortar]

same with the other log

[proper veldt]

its joever

they tried to hotfix

and broke it

for sure

[mighty pivot]

between your kills today and 1 week ago there are about 30 fewer tails coins but only 10 finisher difference (and 6v4 KIR). Fewer heads flips too. Maybe the vanishes didn't align as well with GS? But the main difference in the graph is when you dropped AR (surprise!)

[cinder haven]

only in raid?

[glass mortar]

doesnt heads show up as its own damage source also? or no. is there anyway to tell heads is even working

[cinder haven]

or was this hotfix super recent?

[glass mortar]

idk

[cinder haven]

worked fine in a key an hour ago or so

[glass mortar]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/acmYRyKh6FnMG4Cv?fight=26&type=damage-done&source=7&translate=true

this was from someone 45m ago

now we have a second one

so seems recent? surely we woulda noticed this earlier

[fallow python]

he suck too

wtf

[frank finch]

???

[glass mortar]

let me dig thru my raid logs last night

[cinder haven]

hand of fate 0.72%

nice

[fallow python]

there was update today

[glass mortar]

the first 4 tails of the opener procced

then it never did damage again

xd

[mighty pivot]

what if they tried to fix the multiproc bug of coins and they broke it like this?

[vagrant saddle]

there was an update at 7:30ish game time, patched in outlaw bugs so we suffer

[cinder haven]

lemme see if it works on dummy

maybe only NA?

NA beta testing for EU again

[vernal fjord]

dummy is fine

[fallow python]

cause i do the whole macro opener stuff and vanish/GS macro too

[vernal fjord]

i just tested

eu

[fallow python]

so maybe that bustos?

[glass mortar]

yea my coins were fine last night

[gaunt phoenix]

it is working on very recent heroic fractillus logs

like 10 minutes ago kinda logs

[glass mortar]

it might not be always broken, maybe it just can break? all my last night logs look fine yea

[vivid vessel]

blizzard and breaking half the game on patches with 0 changes

[quartz magnet]

tails dmg has been working for the me the whole night

[random stirrup]

mr zac does effective_combo_points not count the coup +5?

[gaunt phoenix]

it should

[vivid vessel]

no it doesnt

[gaunt phoenix]

oh

[random stirrup]

my world is shattered

[vivid vessel]

effective cp doesnt matter anymore tho

but ye

it says 5

its 5

not 2 + coup

[random stirrup]

[formal crest]

If we have rule to roll when on 2 buffs for instance it takes cto buff into account too, right?

[delicate seal]

blizz is beyond braindamaged

they'll patch spatter/attempt to hotfix this but no tuning, and cold blood still broken/tons of negative bugs in place

[glass mortar]

the game do be buggin

[reef ruin]

Buck flizz

[glass mortar]

guess i'll go play the other critically acclaimed mmorpg to get me fill of bug free pve content

oh

[zenith egret]

No way I discovered a shitty bug 🙁

[glass mortar]

discovered? or... created

[zenith egret]

Would have help to be a double coin damage

[reef ruin]

Btw happened to me too

[zenith egret]

WOW

[glass mortar]

whered u take the coins bro

[frank finch]

whats happening?

[gaunt phoenix]

log?

[vivid vessel]

coins

[zenith egret]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/acmYRyKh6FnMG4Cv Feel free to check our whole logs of the night (Don't bother us shitting ourself on Frac)

[glass mortar]

me when fateunbound

[reef ruin]

Can't I'm in bed now 😦

[delicate seal]

oh looks like it only stops working some pulls

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/acmYRyKh6FnMG4Cv?fight=26&type=damage-done&source=7&translate=true that 1

[gaunt phoenix]

Wipe 9 as well

[delicate seal]

and 18

[vagrant saddle]

its a coin toss weather it works or no

[zenith egret]

Pull 8 since start
Pull 9 bugged mid fight

[glass mortar]

it stopped working for like 4 wipes in a row

in the middle

xd

is there any chance there some actual direct cause we can find in this

i hate reading thru event logs for outlaw

we hit like 7000 times a gcd

wait it looks like it breaks mid one of these pulls, is that a death perhaps?

[delicate seal]

nope, death at end

[zenith egret]

Pull 8 since start
Pull 9 bugged mid fight
Pull 18 since start
Pull 19 since start

Seem to be all the pull

[glass mortar]

nope its just averaging out

yea

not even fully dead either it hit 4 times then never again on wipe 19

this is spaghetti

[tender wedge]

I low key love seeing these kind of things discovered in real time but it’s also just so depressing

[zenith egret]

Well I swear I did not love that trying to find where the frick was my dps

[tender wedge]

Even worse on outlaw when you can just low roll and high roll and trying to uncover stuff beneath all that

[delicate seal]

also this is EU

oddly enough

[tender wedge]

Speaking of, I had a period of about 45 seconds on frac last night when I just never got enough rolls to use KiR although it was available HOLY does that feel bad

[torpid fiber]

Don't you love blizzard

[glass mortar]

technically not having ur tails coin do any damage could just be considered rng now so this is a low roll

i cant tell if anything is causing it

if there is ic ant find it from this log

[torpid fiber]

How the fuck did they break this lmao

[glass mortar]

its just random

back to delves

[delicate seal]

i mean its not a roll, if you get the roll/buff it should do damage

[torpid fiber]

Someone send in a bug report

[glass mortar]

maybe its hitting corpses

ur raid members

we should probably do a test for that bug at some point every expac

that feels like an easy one they could slip back on in a bad hotfix

[torpid fiber]

I guess we're more likely to get buffed now

[torpid fiber]

We know what caused it, we think

It's a flag

[glass mortar]

never got confirmation on that but yea probably

the thing is theres tons of other spells in the game that have that flag

and it doesnt cause them to do this

probably an easy bug test is just to go and see if bf works in old content tho since them fixing this broke it in legacy content

[torpid fiber]

Yeah

[glass mortar]

doubt they ever fix that

since its a collectors bug

[vivid vessel]

how much renown does the main quest give

does it give any

[fierce trout]

Did Outlaw get any better in last 6 hours while I was away?

[vivid vessel]

it got worse actually

[gaunt phoenix]

my tails didnt do damage on plexus yesterday. I accidently went in as trickster, but that's besides the point.

[fierce trout]

🤡

[mighty pivot]

"accidentally"

[vivid vessel]

im reclearing the whole raid as trickster next week

good luck guys

[mighty pivot]

PC trickster?

[frail veldt]

Yeah how do the coins just stop hitting for so much of the fight?

[frail veldt]

This is so fucked lol

[south scaffold]

when do we get a new charge for converting T-Set items?

[frail veldt]

Next week

Will be the 4th total charge if you have done the achievement based one

[long barn]

Come on. That can’t be.

[tender wedge]

New possible bug discovered

[torpid fiber]

Fatebound doesn't work wbk

[cinder haven]

I tried both dummies and raid, worked fine on eu

[long barn]

Do we really have to go trickster in raid now lol

[cinder haven]

Unless it's some specific fight

[worldly shale]

u have to go sub now

[stiff vector]

aint no way blizzard nerfed us like this

[long barn]

How bad were the trinket nerfs to sub

[torpid fiber]

If you'd go trickster for St in raid you should either swap spec or bench yourself

It's that bad

[stiff vector]

the dark arts of abusing coinge is all we have

[crisp lark]

hey! new to outlaw and rogue in general. read the wowhead, icyveins, and method guide on the opener and also simmed my character but im seeing a few different iterations on what should happen. is there no set start for how we go about it?

[torpid fiber]

There's a blurb in the FAQ, but the gist is that you just play like normal just with doing some stuff before pull

#1276308344813916261 message

[gaunt phoenix]

You have like 2 globals that are set in stone

[long barn]

I mean sub is good on the bonus dmg bosses. But I thought Sin fatebound was really good

Is there a weakaura for coins that we can use to see if it’s broke during a pull?

Like fatebound by flip total count or something

[gaunt phoenix]

They flip but don't deal dmg

[wind pond]

Who all had the issue?

Wondering if it’s on the same boss

[gaunt phoenix]

Maybe trackable?

It's been on loom and fract

So far

[wind pond]

I saw in one log it looked like right after killing those little adds on loom

Oh fract is target dummy so idk why

[stiff vector]

this is exactly the kind of bug outlaw needs to draw attention to how much we need buffs

surely

[long barn]

Might be time for another wowhead post

[torpid fiber]

Nah

This is a "report bug to blizzard" angle

And then either they fix it or outlaw drops in charts a bit

[rotund haven]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[worldly shale]

IM BEING DCD

LIKE 5 TIMES

[buoyant ridge]

ok, all you people smarter than me ... i'm getting conflicting info ... do y'all recommend authority of the depths or of radiant power for weapon chants?

[earnest skiff]

Has someone got any advice per chance? ^^'

[zenith egret]

I'm on EU also btw

[spare dome]

everything you asked is in the faq

3. Idk, make a WA that flashes big KS icon

[glass mortar]

radiant more aoe depths more st

[spare dome]

4. There is a wa ig that shows if you are in range

[glass mortar]

i put depths on my swap weapon with cudgel

and radient on my mh

u can choose what u want

just depends which profile u wanna lean into more

[buoyant ridge]

thank you!

[gaunt phoenix]

Depths has fallen off with ilvl

Even on st

[buoyant ridge]

haste cap is 25% right?

[gaunt phoenix]

19%

[buoyant ridge]

oh shit.... im way over lol

[gaunt phoenix]

Which becomes 25% after alacrity

[buoyant ridge]

i'm at 23 ... so I suppose i need to swap my fiber lol

[gaunt phoenix]

yeh

[brave fossil]

I love my outlaw, but looking at sub is rough

Can one of you guys talk to your dad at blizzard about buffing us?

[ocean lodge]

no prism this week so I'm still outlaw gaming.

how does void elf compare to nelf dpswise?

[tender wedge]

Ditto, zero prisms seen in 7 kills across hero and normal so far

[smoky whale]

If you cry enough you get buffed class, look at the Pala

[brave fossil]

I had one drop in vault this week, but didn't end up taking it. Didn't realize the luck was that bad on it

[tender wedge]

I finally had an antenna drop at least

On an alt 🥲

[brave fossil]

oof

[tender wedge]

I didn’t even take it either because myth track weapon was also there

[late swallow]

https://raider.io/guilds/tw/shadowmoon/Fortune

7 day 5 hr guild

Thoughts?

[inland acorn]

with fatebound, if we have vanish and GS up, but not ADR. Do we hold vanish and GS (assuming that ADR and GS are still active), if ADR is coming up soon, or just send vanish --> GS ?

[worldly shale]

uhm

i have 2 crafted

[tender wedge]

Not sure raiding for 43 minutes a day is very efficient but the results seem good

[worldly shale]

1 onehand and 1 dagger

why cant i upgrade

other weps

for free

tf

[tender wedge]

Crafted apparently doesn’t count for harbinger achieve this season

Cool huh

[worldly shale]

TFFFFFFFFFFFFF

ETEGFEAGGHDFHBAS

i mean idc

wtf

but still

dumb

[fathom bramble]

it worked fine for me last week

crafted sword and upgraded daagger let me upgrade a 2nd dagger for free

[tender wedge]

I had to upgrade some random bracers to 704 to proc the achieve despite having 704 crafted

[fathom bramble]

unless it's only broken for double crafted

and not just that crafted items don';t count

[tender wedge]

Maybe that

[worldly shale]

prob that

[brave fossil]

Someone with more sim knowledge might be able to provide a better answer, but I'd say it depends a bit on timer. You want the AR for more BTEs to reduce its cd, but holding them for too long means your AR uptime is gonna suffer.

If you have AR rolling as a buff but the ability on CD I'd just send it

Especially if the AR timer is long

[eager sundial]

!coup

[cinder haven]

You cab hold a little

[inland acorn]

Yeah I assumed it's ok to hold

[eager sundial]

For tierset coup do we just send it right after the first or try and build cp for it?

[cinder haven]

Like 10s

In that specific situation

[inland acorn]

And I assume i send vanish + gs

If GS is about to fall off

[brave fossil]

I'd say you're good with 20 if you still have a non-stealth BTE up still

[inland acorn]

Or is it still, hold for ADR angle ?

[trail cove]

!log

[cinder haven]

Did not sim that

But good idea

[obtuse hollow]

Were they buffed? I thought they reopened the discord for nothing

[obtuse hollow]

Oh i actually know them in person

[strong halo]

whats the number to hit for haste cap

not % but absolute

just crafted a new ring

tring to figure out gems / chants

[cinder haven]

19.2% unbuffed i think

[brave fossil]

It would be a marginal gain if anything. Ghostly strikes uptime is fairly high and it's better to use it inside of damage windows

[obtuse hollow]

Fun fact they lost the TW first kill to a 3-4 day guild last tier

[brave fossil]

19.05% if you wanna be exact

Is where you wanna be

[strong halo]

whats the haste stat number that equals

[cinder haven]

Im at 19.17% and slightly above 25% with ala

[brave fossil]

I think it's around 12,600 for me

[normal aurora]

Hey folks, how close to your unbuffed sim do ya'll get on target dummies? Particulary curious about single target

[glass mortar]

19.05% is the exact %

i had 19.10%

🤮

[strong halo]

Yeah but i cant calculate to % only numbers

[glass mortar]

wasting haste past the minimum federally mandated blizzard level

[strong halo]

so i know if i do 1 or 2 gems ;3

[glass mortar]

i mean u can calculate just divide ur rating by ur % to find the conversion ratio